No doubt a controversial question – this goes in to moral ground that other Your View lists have not so far. The question is whether the death penalty should be used or not. I have my own strong views on this topic and I am sure you all will too!
When answering this question, be sure to give us your reasons for your answer – it gives us a chance to debate!
Should the death penalty be used?
My answer is yes – forget rehabilitation – the death penalty meets out justice – if a person commits a heinous crime, such as murder, they should be executed. They should not be placed in to a prison at the expense of the people they have endangered.
I would have to say No, I am opposed to it. I feel that too many people end up on the row because of their station in life, often uneducated, living in poverty and suffering from some form of mental illness (schizophrenia is a fine example) I was married to a Schizophrenic and my mother was Schizophrenic, and to see what they went through on a daily basis, the confusion and fear, and living in a world that only they could see, one that we cannot begin to fathom and then shuffeling them off to be gassed or electrocuted or “put to sleep”like a dog, is unimaginable. I way the terrible torment they lived with, and the toll it exacts on these people. When people with these illnesses commit violent acts, it is not because they cannot control themselves, (compliance is another issue and another topic) it is because society has failed them, the doctors, the government etc with a lack of funding, lack of viable treatments and ongoing social stigma. By shuffling these people from jail to hospital to jail to street, we only compound the problem and we add to it. I understand killing with intent, and being fully aware, but what if they were protecting themselves from a threat that was obvious only to them, it is a firm and fixed believe, without basis in reality. I could never be okay with the thought of somoene so ill facing an end in such a fashion.
Yes I believe in it where it is proved without a shadow of a doubt. Not only that i think they should suffer before and possibly during the death
I am not talking about the spur of the moment stuff, but how about the persons who tape themselfs torturing and killing people. How about people sitting in prison enjoying their thoughts of what they have done and the pain they have caused others.
And dont drag it out either, found guilty in those instances, get on with it, i dont think i would even waste the price of a meal on them.
Mr. Crow I support 100% your idea
@ Lucy
The answer is simple, not every murder can be sentece equaly, the first guy deserves death the other life in prison, thats it, ypu can’t compare a calculated murder this one driven by feelings. Any judge would give the 2 diferent sentences (english is not my native language so sorry for the mistakes)
YES! the death penalty should be used! with reason of course, but certain for some crimes it is the only solution. say someone is serving a life sentence in prison. he kills a guard, or another inmate. he is already serving life. giving him jailtime does nothing, in effect he can kill without punishment. and as for sanctity of life… i do not believe in abortion, because that is innocent life. simply said, once born you have control of your life. you can remain inocent (relatively, as nobody is perfect) or choose a life of evil. you reap the rewards either way. to say all life is equal and nobody deserves to be put to death is to say the lives of people like mother teresa or ghandi are worth no mor than those like hitler, stalin, or for that matter osama bin laden. this is a ridiculous claim, even if you are not religous. those that contribute to society, help others, and are generally good poeple, are in no way equal to those who kill, rape and destroy viable society and decent people!
Any of you that want these alleged and proven criminals murdered should be ashamed. It is not up to us to determine who deserves to live and die, it is up to God. He will do justly in the end. For us to think we are higher than him is just absurd; I mean, honestly, did you create your own life? Do you know where you are going to die? Listen to Jesus’ word, “You have heard that is was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven…for if you love those who love you, what reward have you?” Believe me, I know it’s tough. But it is more than worth it in the end…if you could only see past the present. We all fall short of the glory of God, we all sin, WE CAN ALL BE SAVED is the magic in it. I believe that these people, no matter how horrible we perceive them to be, should still have the right to live because they may actually ask for forgiveness and repent. Maybe I’m being too optomistic, but you honestly will never know what could have been.
Furthermore, killing a person should never be right, not even in the case of vengeance, because it sends the wrong message to persons everywhere and actually increases homicide rates, hence, it is not a deterrent. This barbaric punishment violates the “cruel and unusual” clause in the Bill of Rights because any form of killing, on purpose, is cruel and unusual. This includes lethal injections because a human is conducting the act in order to kill the committed felon. “A revenge philosophy inevitably leads to an endless cycle of violence…striking back at your enemy purely for revenge will always make matters worse”. The family of the victim also suffers; an innocent family suffering. What a wonderful country. Killing a murderer does not bring his victim back to life; it achieves nothing but the death of yet another person.
Do you think the Louisiana ex rel. Franic v. Resweber case in 1947 was just? Willie Francis, a 17-year-old african american, was to be electocuted for murder of a pharmicist. The first attempt failed because the chair was not set up right. This botched young man, who just cheated death was tried again, and no, the double jeopardy clause in the beginning of the constitution did not rule over this case. Instead, the court used the 14th amendment as their excuse-the due process law. Racism is a problem in our country, don’t deny it. I personally am not racist and find this totally wrong. He did not die the first time, so I believe he was meant to live. Not out on the streets like the rest of us, but in jail, if he was proven guilty.
Very good point too, jail is actually cheaper and more of a punishment. Being in such a confined space for the rest of your life would make you crazy. And who knows, maybe they want to die? Maybe our country is just giving them what they want? If you wanted revenge, wouldn’t you want them to be humiliated?
My take? Give me the syringe or let me push the button. Why do I have to be humane? When a dog bites someone and is untrainable…it gets put to sleep. Unless you have been a victim of a violent crime, don’t try to convince me otherwise. I am talking about major crimes….rape, child abuse (of any kind) and murder. I wished I lived in Texas….they use the death penalty. Believe me…its a deterrent. Ron White (comedian) said this:
“In Texas we have the death penalty, and WE USE IT! That’s right! If you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back! That’s our policy! In Texas, when 3 or more eye witnesses see you committing a heinous crime, you go to the front of the line, jack. Some states are trying to abolish the death penalty… my states puttin in an express lane.”
(paraphrased a bit)..but you get my point. I have a daughter … I love her more than anything and I want her to be safe. Too many times we humans forgive these (i can’t call them animals…that’s a diservice to the furrykind) criminals, let them out and they do it again. I will no longer sit on the sidelines. I can’t..not for her or myself or anyone that I love. I have joined others in making petitions and calling my congressman (ha) to make it harder on repeat offenders.
Jail is cheaper….if they are there for a while…however if we follow the “express lane” theory…less money spent on housing these people. I know from experience many to almost all are not able to be ‘reprogrammed’ to fit into society. Especially ***** offenders. There is a reason they are on a life time list. They keep doing it over and over again. They don’t stop. So unless you want to see your loved one or (shudder at the thought) your child go through this…think again. I cannot forgive someone for such a horrible act.
I used to work with these types of individuals in probation and now work at an office job. Less stress for me. Guess I am way too jaded to consider anything else…I kept seeing the same individuals come back…over and over and over…How many people do you want them to kill? One was enough in my book…
546. SAMaLAMAdingDONG
“It is not up to us to determine who deserves to live and die, it is up to God.”
So I suppose you never visited any hospital, had any surgeries done, any cavities filled (or even the act of tootbrushing for that matter), any antibiotics taken…because these are essentially giving you the decision of whether or not to prolong life.
“actually increases homicide rates”
O rly? I’d like to see published source material on this. I’ve seen information on no correlation between capital punishment and homicide but nothing to say it entices people to murder.
There is one thing we agree on… “Maybe I’m being too optomistic”
Get down from the pulpit and join the real world. Give us a viable alternative to the Death Penalty.
Life in Prison? Overcrowding, which leads certain celebutants with 3-30 day jail sentences a 45 minute stay behind bars. And the actualities of life in prison? Hugo Bedau’s The Death Penalty in America reported that in 1992, the range for life in prison sentences was between 20 and 50 years and the median years served was 9. Remember not all life sentences come without parole. Imagine if ALL on death row were life in prison types and eventually released. If you say Life without Parole, I won’t even go into how much money it’ll cost taxpayers to maintain these buildings, feed prisoners, build more prisons to house and feed more prisoners…
Halfway houses/reform schools? Government owned housing which is paid by our overworked, undermoney’d Americans. If that’s your solution, then I suppose you start knocking door to door and let the kind people know they have to part with even more of their money.
Let them loose? Goody, because I always wanted my family to live next door to a sociopath. Or the mass murderers. Hugh Bedau’s book stated that in 1993, nearly 10% on death row were guilty of two or more murders (may not sound like a lot but it’s over 200 people. Enough for a neighborhood block or two). Now there’s no delineation between those who killed multiple people at one time and those who enjoyed killing so much that they just had to do it again but either way…They sound like the most wonderful kind of neighbor to have…
I actually wasn’t going to comment on this list until I saw you had the gall to chastise us, o perfect one. Yes this does say your view but you take liberties with that by viewing unknown people as shameful creatures and letting us know how morally corrupt we are. Demean the rest of us less and give more insight on how you’d fix the problem.
I read somewhere “Death Penalty turns the Government into a murderer, but life sentences turns the Government into Gay Dungeon Masters”
HEY, I am NOT perfect, and I know that. I HAVE sinned, ok. Maybe we should have more prisons for the criminals, but I am absolutely against the death punishment. And oouchan, what if, let’s say your daughter, did one of these crimes. Would you want her sentenced to death? I wouldn’t. God gives us free will, but he ultimately knows when we will die…he knows everything. As if you really care about taxes, taxes on gas and food keep rising. The economy keeps going down. Which is more valuable, money or somebody’s life? Yes, that is somebody, somebody living, just like you.
Indeed, 10 of the 12 states without capital punishment have homicide rates below the national average, Federal Bureau of Investigation data shows, while half the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above the national average. In a state-by- state *****ysis, The Times found that during the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48 percent to 101 percent higher than in states without the death penalty.
“Elimination of the death penalty [in California] would result in a net savings to the state of at least tens of millions of dollars annually, and a net savings to local governments in the millions to tens of millions of dollars on a statewide basis.” (Joint Legislative Budget Committee of the California Legislature, 09/9/99)
Total cost of death penalty is 38% greater than total cost of life without parole sentences. (Indiana Criminal Law Study Commission, January 10, 2002)
Since its return to New York in 1995, $160 million has been spent. The New York Daily News estimates that before the first execution takes place, $238 million will be spent.
In addition to the funds required to try death penalty cases, the New York Department of Correctional Services spent $1.3 million to construct New York’s 12-inmate death row and pays nearly $300,000 per year to guard the unit. (New York Law Journal, April 30, 2002)
Plus, most judges do not want to sentence a man..or woman, for that case, to death; it’s just such a big burden for them.
Over 123 people have been found innocent of the crime they were sentenced to death for. Based on numerous studies, former Attorney General Janet Reno and the American Society of Criminologists agree that the death penalty has no deterrence value. Janet Reno stated at a Justice Department news briefing in January 2000 that: “I have inquired for most of my adult life about studies that might show that the death penalty is a deterrent, and I have not seen any research that would substantiate that point.” The founder of The Journey of Hope, Bill Pelke, explains: “The death penalty has absolutely nothing to do with healing. [It] just continues the cycle of violence and creates more murder victim family members. We become what we hate. We become killers.
So 123 innocent people killed… How many innocent people have been killed as a result of violent offenders being released?
SAMaLAMAdingDONG, I guess you believe everything the goverment tells you. I don’t.
“And oouchan, what if, let’s say your daughter, did one of these crimes. Would you want her sentenced to death?”
The answer: Yes. I love her. I would want her to have the best and happiest life that I can give her. However, if she commits a crime of this nature…I would give her a hug, kiss her goodbye and mourn her for the rest of my life. I would not want to look into the eyes of another mother and know that my daughter caused that pain.
I am not going to live my life with the off chance that some higher power will take care of the issues us humans cause. I want to be in control of my life.
and since I have raised her to follow what is right and what is wrong…I am fairly certain I won’t need to go as far as to see her executed for a crime. She is aware of my views and she is ok with that.
I’m a little ignorant of this topic. Could someone tell me if really acts as a deterrent (particularly for crimes of passion) and what european countries regularly enforce this punishment?
551. SAMaLAMAdingDONG
Thank you. Much better.
I’ve seen the same TIMES paper. It shows that capital punishment is no deterrent to homicide but still doesn’t show increase in homicide rates is a direct correlation to capital punishment (i.e. “I want to murder so I can be on death row.”) but these two posts are far better than the first.
As far as the question I suppose is geared towards me “Which is more valuable, money or somebody’s life?” I will reword that to a sentence pertinent to the topic at hand: “What do I find more important: tax money I can use to create a financially secure environment for myself and my family or the life of someone who took the life of someone else?” My answer is still pro-death penalty. I definitely believe a massive rehaul is necessary, decriminalize many minor crimes, like drug possession, find alternative punishments for misdemeanors, both of which would lessen the strain on our prison systems, allowing a number of those on death row with single infractions to be housed in prison with no extra strain on our trillion dollar indebted economy. That still doesn’t discount the fact that I view the death penalty would still be in use although to a lesser degree. It’s been mentioned on this board that life in prison would give them their deserved punishment of a lifetime of guilt…to me a life of aimless routine and demoralizing prison brutality (mostly within the prisoners themselves) and mental anguish of spending the remaining 40 to 50 years reliving one act of crime is in itself far more cruel and unsual. And in the most extreme cases, i.e. the sociopaths, they have a mental condition that does not allow them to view the world within our societal norms. They tend to not feel remorse for what they did and will most likely kill or harm the more “innocent” inmates within the prison.
554. cymraegbachgen87
haha, I can’t believe I have to say this to you…read my above posts. I didn’t give details in the one posted before you but still said that there is no correlation found between capital punishment and homicide.
Crime of passion would be involuntary manslaughter and (in nearly all US States) would receive life in prison instead of death row.
It’s not a big issue in Europe as the EU abolished the death penalty. Although not every nation is in the EU right? So I suppose it still exists.
Perhaps you could provide some insight on how things of this nature are handled where you’re at?
Gabi,
I know, quite out of character for me to post before reading. My own research and the posts above indicate that yes, as a prerequisite for joining the EU, the DP must be abolished, but also the european council (which is far more inclusive) also seems to have this requisite. Of the 50 countries in europe, only 2 stil use the DP and they havent used it in years.
What I find interesting is that, of all fully developed countries, only Japan, Singapore and America still use this method of punishment on a regular basis. It seems to me that if the rest of the developed world can get by without it, why cant those three countries.
Even in UK, I still agree that punishment needs to fit the crime – our prison system is strained to breaking point but it is political suicide to appear soft on crime by decriminilising acts, or removing custodial sentences as possible punishment
My own view is that “hanging is too good for the likes of you” I think it is an easy way out for murderers. Living with their guilt I think is a far better punishment. Either that or subjecting each prisoner to their worst fear – human rights issues here, I’ll grant you, but do murderers and rapists deserve to be treated as human beings. I do shudder at the state of the american justice system though – I am thankful I live here in the UK
Cym:
I completely agree with much of what you wrote…which is why I asked how punishments are meted out where you are. I have no reason to pass judgment in Japan or Singapore, but in a “perfect” US, I would love to have the option of no death penalty but since it has been such a mainstay in American culture that abruptly abolishing it would probably cause more harm than good. That’s why I suggested ways to fix problems not necessarily pertaining to capital punishment but in an indirect way benefit the lessoning of death penalty and eventually, (hopefully) making it a rare enough situation in our justice system that people are not desensitized to it as they are now.
Except, I am still a bit uncertain about the idea of taking it completely away. In situations like Timothy McVey and Charles Manson, they killed a large number people but showed no remorse for it. I don’t think “living with their guilt” would remotely apply to extreme situations like those two.
I wonder what Manson’s worst fear would be…. perhaps disco music.
We have a common law system (which we have exported throughout the world via conquest!) but without the DP since the late 60s, where it is believed the man was hanged wrongly. He was not of a mental state to be tried as an adult and was convicted on circumstantial evidence. His execution was also rushed. Parliament refused to review his case until after he was executed!
I am not an expert on Law (that is my sister!) but wiki seems to sum up our imprisonment system quite nicely. Much of the life sentences are eligible for parole (the average being about 15 years) The judge tends to state Life, with a minimum of___years. When released:
“Prisoners jailed for life are released on a life licence if the parole board authorises their release. The prisoner must satisfy the parole board that they are remorseful, understand the gravity of their crime and pose no future threat to the public. They are subject to a possible lifelong recall to prison should they breach their parole conditions.” (wiki)
I believe having a pineapple inserted in an offenders anus (spikey end first) would be quite a deterrent. 2-3 times a day would be practical.
Cym:
Now that’s just cruel and unusual to the pineapples…and it happens to be my cousin’s favorite fruit so I’m sure she’d have something to say against your suggestion!
The situation does seem better there. While yours has an average release of 15 years, I mentioned earlier that life in prison sentences here have an average release of a mere 9 years. For a crime of the magnitude I believe is fitting for capital punishment, I don’t believe 9 years is enough of a sacrifice (I’ll have to find these sources again but the range went as far down as 3.6 years! I know college is tough but to know that some inmates get out earlier than most of us get a degree…that’s not right).
There are situations here that would be terrifying had they been killed. Ray Krone, the alleged Snaggle Tooth killer, was wrongly accused of murder when all he was really guilty of was poor dental hygiene. In a hypothetical situation where he had done the deed, I think single murders should remain in prison rather than death row (he earned LiP but was considered for DP. The justice system can’t undue wrongful imprisonment but at least he had not died for those crimes. What I would limit death penalty to would be mass murderers, those who are determined by judges and doctors to recognize what they did and still feel no remorse for the consequences of their actions. Letting them loose on society is not an option and neither is letting them loose in the prison systems. Prison guards are there not only to prevent escapes but also for the protection of the prisoners. I wouldn’t want to make their jobs even more dangerous by guarding a sociopath with a predilection for killing as being yet another aspect of the job description.
oouchan, that is just sick. Seriously, have you told your daughter that you wouldn’t care about her if she did something like that? I love my family unconditionally, seriously if you can’t handle someone at their worst, you don’t deserve them at their best. Anyone for the death penalty containg words that are as poisonous as the lethal injection, as hard as the stones, as choking as the noose, ect. They are as deadly as the actual action of the death penalty. Therefore you are contributing to the death of the person. Innocent or not.
I usually do not come to people’s aid – I usually allow them to fight their own battles. I have made my views clear but it seems, SAMaLAMAdingDONG (561), that you are incapable of accepting opposing views.
At no point have I thought oouchan was sick for her viewpoint (maybe wrong in my opinion I am certain that oouchan loves her daughter deeply. Nothing she has written has hinted otherwise.
Re-read her post. If you cannot see this then I propose it is YOU who are sick.
561. SAMaLAMAdingDONG
And I thought we were turning a corner when you wrote 551-2….
I will state it plainly this time: Argue your POINTS rather than attack another person for their ideals. You can vomit out all the facts in the world but when most of what you say is argumentum ad hominem, you lose any and all credibility to those watching you.
If you’ve noticed, cymraegbachgen87 and I have opposing views and managed to talk it out in a civil fashion all day. I’ve learned far more about the Death Penalty from cym than you so far.
At the end of the day, this issue is so polarized that there is no real middle ground. The best you can hope for on a board such as this is that people respect your views and argue points. You may learn something.
Unfortunately this is not entirely how this board is turning out.
And gabi, it is always a pleasure arguing with you – whether we agree or not
Cym:
That’s the main reason why I hadn’t intended on participating in this particular topic but thank you for your different perspective. We can simply shake hands and simultaneously say “Let’s agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.”
See you on some other list, sir.
BTW, don’t take this the wrong way but I’m glad your sister doesn’t LV. Do you realize just how daunting it would be to debate against a lawyer?!?! well, seeing as you’re her brother I suppose you do…
561. SAMaLAMAdingDONG…You have your views and I have mine. I will not try to convince you to change your view…although you are attempting to make me change mine through insults and baseless comments. Please…you have not stood in my shoes. You don’t know what I have seen and what I know. I point out my opinion and you attack me for it. I didn’t attack you. I still won’t.
I love my daughter and she knows this. We both have the same views on the death penalty. If I ever did something like this, she would do the same for me. We have had discussions around this.
I would still love her for her even if she did the crime…but she will pay for the mistake. Why is my child better than others? Those who choose to commit such crimes, in my mind, should pay for that in the highest manner…no matter who you are. I respect your views and those that posted here…but I will never change my mind…no matter what.
Meeting adjourned.
Death penalty for the win people. Plenty of points for and against but given my personal beliefs I would have to say :
Give ‘em a needle in the arm, all of them
568. Mark…I agree. A professor I know from college said “Get rid of the electric chair. We should use electric bleachers instead!”
maybe the question here is how should crime be punished, not should we have th death penalty?
my choice would be let the victim or victims family choose the punishment
and having people ‘rot in jail’ is expensive and i object to it, cuz they have a better life then i do, with sky tv, 3 meals a day and free education
I think we should use death penalty, but only when you know there is no chance for that person to ever re-join society
570. 6twistedbiscuits : I’m pretty sure it’s actually more expensive to execute a prisoner than give one the death penalty, don’t quote me though…
If you know for CERTAIN that someone is guilty of murder, kill ‘em. If there is any chance they might be innocent, leave them in prison.
killing someone to prove a point that killing is wrong is a little hypocritical. but an eye for an eye as they say….
Mark, 6.t.b.:
From BalancedPolitics.org
Financial costs to taxpayers of capital punishment is several times that of keeping someone in prison for life. Most people don’t realize that carrying out one death sentence costs 2-5 times more than keeping that same criminal in prison for the rest of his life. How can this be? It has to do with the endless appeals, additional required procedures, and legal wrangling that drag the process out. It’s not unusual for a prisoner to be on death row for 15-20 years. Judges, attorneys, court reporters, clerks, and court facilities all require a substantial investment by the taxpayers.
It is worth it to me, though, and I’m sure to all the others who are pro-death penalty. You can cut costs in other places – cable television for prisoners, for example. I can’t afford cable with my clean record, I’m sure they can do without. Also, should the death penalty be more widely accepted the battles might not drag out as long, and more efficient procedures might be introduced.
Even if it doesn’t, and the cost is still as such, I see the additional costs as worth it to keep my community safe in the long run.
575. gabi319: But if it were to be carried out immediately, the cost would be a fraction of what it would be if we were to keep them alive. Heinous crimes only should be given the penalty.
576. oouchan
Yes. That is why a few states have begun to institute regulations on the number of years and/or times someone can appeal. This has been one of the very few facts anti-Death Penalty has been parading but they are hesitant to list the whys (either because they know it’s a weak argument or because they really don’t know the details). You’ve given them a viable alternative in your 576.
577. gabi319: Yup. In my previous post I quoted Ron White:
“In Texas we have the death penalty, and WE USE IT! That’s right! If you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back! That’s our policy! In Texas, when 3 or more eye witnesses see you committing a heinous crime, you go to the front of the line, jack. Some states are trying to abolish the death penalty… my states puttin in an express lane.”
So true!
Yes, death penalty can protect innocent people, from murders, rapists and kidnappers. In a country like Brazil, where I live, many assassinations are caused by convicted murders (or someone who already attempt to kill someone) that escaped prison, got reduced sentences, or somehow are back to the streets. If they were executed after the first attempt many innocent lives could be saved. But, to be effective it must be executed in a very short time, one or two months, otherwise it gets too expensive (in Brazil thousands of murders, rapists and kidnappers should be executed every year).
This might possibly come off as radical.
But here’s my opinion.
If you think about it, you might realize that any question of morality comes down to opinion. So when you get all enthused about “justice”, what it often sounds like is “I hope they kill this person who did something I don’t like!”
I’m not saying child murder is cool, because I don’t like child murder. But that’s just me, and no one should be killed because of what I like or don’t like.
You do have to do cruel things, such as lock people in jail, to keep others safe. I’m not even saying you should abolish the death penalty (though I do wish that would happen). Just don’t imagine that the death penalty is fair, just, or righteous, because it’s basically selfish and no better than any crime.
580. Wump Marching – If you think about it, you might realize that any question of morality comes down to opinion. So when you get all enthused about “justice”, what it often sounds like is “I hope they kill this person who did something I don’t like!”
Yes, it is subjective but given the judges, the jury, the police foorce, the victims and/or third parties involved, not excluding the community as a whole… crime and punishment becomes a collective morality; A social contract, if you will, that allows one certain protections of a nation provided that they abide by the rules that govern that locale and these rules are (hopefully) created to protect and maintain the society. Cymraegbachgen87 and I had a fairly good albeit short conversation above and I respect the fact that he is against Death Penalty and that he lives in a society that doesn’t utilize it. However, different societies work differently. What may work for the UK may not work for the US.
“You do have to do cruel things, such as lock people in jail, to keep others safe.”
That’s one option but a very difficult one to maintain since prisons are already to capacity now and to expand would require more taxes to cover building construction, employ guards, purchase food and necessities for prisoners, etc. Not to mention an increased prison population of intermixed minor and major felons would create a very volatile environment. Do you have any more suggestions? That was in no way demeaning. I really am curious because you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I’d like to learn what you have to say.
“it’s basically selfish and no better than any crime.”
Selfish of the society to protect the majority, yes. No better than the crime, yes. But in my preferred death penalty stance, it would prevent this particular felon from repeating said crime.
I have a friend who was once a vocal anti-death penalty advocate, spouting claims like “criminals have human rights too, you know”. We used to have long arguments on the death penalty, me being Pro, she being Anti.
And then her mother was found raped and murdered right inside their home one day.
Now she’s a pro death penalty person. She even said “I was wrong, these *****ers don’t deserve human rights.”
@Z (582): It’s sad when something like that has to change someone’s mind for the better.
I once saw a special done on the court tv channel, where a family had gone camping. A man cut through the tent they were all in and took out the little girl. She lived for 3 days with this sicko before he buried her alive. That’s not the bad part. It seem the mother forgave the sick f**k who did it and even tried to help him with his jail time because she didn’t want to see him die for this. … I kept watching the show hoping she would have a change of heart, but no…that didn’t happen. At the end, all I could do was look at this twit in horror. This little girl went through hell and her mother was helping the guy who did it. Even now, I am still shocked over it.
Oh…by the way, the did fry his ass anyway. At least some justice was found for that little girl.
I never thought they (criminals) should have rights. We put dogs down for hurting/killing people. No difference in my book.
It’s 100% effective against recidivism.
@oouchan (583): Ouch…
I say no. Who are we to take someones life? It is god’s decision and he will punish them.
the death penalty is seriously wrong. By killing a murderer you’re only becoming one yourself.The family only get some sick warped sense of justice, but at the end of the day the victim’s life is still ruined or gone. By killing the perpetrator you’re only having another needless death and your not punishing them are you? let them stay in jail with their guilt.
The appeals process costs more taxpayer’s money than life in prison. There is absolutely 0 justification for capital punishment.
As of today, May 14, 2010, Texas is preparing to execute an inmate by the name of Rogelio Cannady. Cannady was sentenced to death for murdering his prison cell mate while in prison for committing two previous murders. “Rotting in prison” didn’t save his cell mate. Execution, on the other hand, will definitely be a deterrent to any future murders committed by Cannady.
Not only is the death penalty not an effective deterrent, in which the states who have the high execution rates still have not been effective in deterring the crime rates, in fact in some states the crime rate has even risen but also the death penalty is simply hypocritical, we play god and punish people for taking lives by taking their life. who's to say who hast the right to take a human life away? Especially from the religious point of view since the bible itself states thou shall not kill, so why should the states be able too? Granted there is a high price to pay, literally with tax money, for criminals in prison, but simply killing them is not the right approach, we are showing that we are no better then them by doing so. Prisons today need to be reformed, they're supposed to rehabilitate prisoners, yet crime rates are on the rise and prisoner released into society have over a 50% chance of winding back in prison. We need to rethink the way we treat criminals in prison and how we deal with them. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
"who's to say who hast the right to take a human life away?"
We all make our own decisions, it is simply based on morality. Killing someone for justice is not the same as killing someone for revenge, or raping someone, or any other horrible crime.
"the bible itself states thou shall not kill"
The bible is full of God telling people to kill, and even God himself killing.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"
Surely that's better than the non-blind half of the world attacking the blind half?
I think the death penalty is a great idea, and I am only sad that it isn't made legal in other areas of the world.
I’ve heard somewhere that if a person sets out to kill someone, they should have already forsaken their own (i.e be prepared to die).
While this statement is extremely true if applied to several criminals, we do tread into uncertain territory. What if the criminal was insane or not in control. In the end all that should matter is that the criminal is not able to commit those crimes again.
This reminds me of the manga “Death Note”. A guy goes around killing all criminals he hears of. In the end, his father offers him the most pathetic defence of the justice system ever: “The justice system is flawed because it is created by people who are also flawed.”
If the system is so flawed, can we really be blamed for wanting those who harm/kill/rape/torture us death(Especially considering the numerous miscarriages of justice that have occurred).
i wost on drug about 3yes a go i stop it all
i think that there are ways he can pay for what they did than death penalty. if you kill them, they die and go to hell or something like that. but if you let them suffer somewhere, they will suffer here on earth and after they die on hell
No because many people have been convicted of crimes they did not commit and also what right do we have to kill them yes I probably would want to kill the person responsible for the death of a friend or family member but what right do I have to take their life, that isn’t Justice that is vengance
The death penalty should be much more widely used than it is for those who have committed acts that were deliberate, torturous (which implies deliberation anyways) or depraved (violent rape, child *****ography, kidnappings, there are even tons of lists on this website of prime examples). “Insanity”, which is basically antisocial PD is 99% of these cases, is an even greater cause to bring it back. There is a big difference between a schizophrenic who can be treated with drugs and can lead a normal life, and someone with antisocial PD, for which there is no real treatment in severe cases, who is great at pretending to fit in but can’t see any reason why it is wrong to kill the neighbourhood schoolchildren. There really is no rehabilitation for these people. In psych hospitals the wards for the criminally insane are essentially jails anyways, for a reason. ((For the nitpickers, no, I am not lumping everyone with this disorders or with antisocial tendencies in here.))
What’s immoral is risking more people’s lives by letting this one evolutionary reject who in any other society in the past would have been removed instantly back into the community, and making our tax dollars go towards essentially paying for these people to stay alive – they are fed, clothed, given shelter, given education, entertainment… Hell, I would even take the idea of a prison island, like Australia was, so long as it’s isolated and no supplies are provided. No mental illness is an excuse for a short jail term for crimes of cruelty or excessive violence, especially since no mental illnesses that can’t be controlled actually lead to this type of behaviour except for the aforementioned antisocial PD.
Elizabeth Fritzel’s father made a cellar with a ceiling of 5’6″, lured her down to help him install the door, and she stayed in the cellar (300 square feet, later 600 square feet) for 24 years. Twenty-four. Years. Oh, she also had seven children by her father. Three of them lived in the cellar with her literally their whole lives (as in never once left that 300 square feet of space) until they were rescued in their teens. So, this woman was raped by her father for 24 years, these kids will never be completely mentally healthy with such a deprived childhood, the three other kids the father raised with his wife (who had no knowledge and was too meek to investigate his stories) are screwed up, and the wife now has to live with the knowledge that her husband was raping her daughter through a quarter century… He got life imprisonment. Sounds harsh? Nah, he can ask for parole in **15 years**, and if he behaved himself in prison, they’d probably grant it, if not sooner. Let’s pretend that was your wife who was in that situation. What would you want done?
Junko Furuta was a 16-year-old girl kidnapped and imprisoned for a month and a half: “According to their statements at their trial, the four of them raped her, beat her with metal rods and golf clubs, introduced foreign objects including a light bulb into her vagina, made her eat cockroaches and drink her own urine, inserted fireworks into her anus and set them off, forced Furuta to masturbate, cut her nipple with pliers, dropped dumbbells onto her stomach, and burned her with cigarettes and lighters. One of the burnings was punishment for attempting to call the police. At one point her injuries were so severe that according to one of the boys it took more than an hour for her to crawl downstairs to use the bathroom. They also related that “possibly a hundred different people” knew that Furuta had been imprisoned there, but it is not clear if this means they visited the house at different times while she was imprisoned there, or themselves either raped or abused her.” By the end she was begging for them to kill her. Her only release was when one of the beatings/burnings got so bad she died of shock – shock, not even an actual lethal blow, but just the sheer pain of the torture. The perpetrators were 17 but tried as adults for obvious reasons. The leader got 20 years, two other main guys got **7 and 9 years** respectively (keep in mind these are pretty much the absolute maximum amount of time these guys will actually spend in jail). Considering that a normal person wouldn’t even be able to imagine doing this to someone else, let alone actually do it, do you really think 7 or even twenty years would make a difference? People do a lot of depraved things under the influence of others but unless one was threatened with death themselves (and many people would rather take this I’m sure) who could bring themselves to go that far?
The sad thing is, the majority of these people have a history of these things. Obviously jail time isn’t a deterrent any more than the death penalty. Philip Garrido, the man who kidnapped 11-year-old Jaycee Dugard and imprisoned her in his backyard for 18 years while he raped and impregnated her a number of times had a record of, drumroll, kidnapping and *****ual assault. He also used to masturbate in his car while watching little girls on the school playground. We let him back out into the community. He raped a 14-year-old girl in 1972. God only knows what else he did that was never found out. The justice system has to take responsibility for that judgment. And to give you an idea of what “life imprisonment” can mean: “On January 22, 1988, Garrido was released from Leavenworth to Nevada State Prison, where he served seven months of a five-years-to-life Nevada sentence [for kidnapping a woman, bringing her to a warehouse, and keeping her there while he raped her repeatedly].”
Seven months. How many chances does this guy get?
Honest to god, what the ***** would we want to do with them anyways when they’re released? I don’t want anyone like that living with a thousand miles of anyone I know (or even don’t know, ffs). Evolution did a good job of weeding out the crazies. Now that culture and society have taken over, we kind of have to do our own natural selection here. It’s not just the short-term removal we need to consider.
I have to add that it seems more compassionate and merciful to me to kill the *****ers for the sake of everyone’s safety and wellbeing, rather than that of the one obviously completely wrong human being.
Name
i think all criminals who commit big time crimes deserve to die in the most extreme painful way possible. 2 reasons for my view. 1. if you commit crimes, you cannot handle life, if you cant handle life, you dont deserve it. 2. it would bring our population down if overpopulation is such a big problem. if theres anything wrong with my view feel free to tell me.
As long as there is any doubt as to who is guilty, (or, essentially, as long as humans are in charge of the judicial system), it is not acceptable at all.
I personally don’t agree with the death penalty for a variety of reasons… but here are two of my main ones… One: it’s hypocritical. A murderer get’s “murdered”. Not the answer in my opinion. Second: Many people have received the death penalty when they were actually innocent. Some people were discovered innocent after they were killed. It’s horrible that some people are robbed of their lives, because of someone’s stupid mistake.
I think the worse punishment is to sit in jail for the rest of their lives, forcing them to think about what they did. Some murderers WANT to die… by giving them the death penalty, you are fulfilling their “wishes”.