In 1762, Bishop Robert Lowth did a grave disservice to the English language when he published his Short Introduction to English Grammar. Rather than basing his grammatical rules in the usage of the best educated speakers and writers of English, he arbitrarily chose to base them on the Latin grammatical system. The result is that many modern usages in English, particularly an alarming number of rules of normative usage and Standard Written English, are based upon those false origins.

These very rules continue to plague us to this day as they are still used as the foundation of many modern school English curriculums. And so, with this list, I hope to finally put an end to many of these foolish rules. [Did you see what I did?]
The “tween” portion of “between” is a reference to the number 2, but the Oxford English Dictionary says this: “In all senses, between has, from its earliest appearance, been extended to more than two.” Many pedants try to enforce the use of “among” when speaking of groups larger than two. Even the pickiest speaker does not naturally say, “A treaty has been negotiated among England, France, and Germany.”
Because ’til looks like an abbreviation for “until”, some people believe that this word should always be spelt ’til (some don’t object to leaving off the apostrophe). However, “till” has been in regular use in English for over 800 years, longer than ’til. It is completely correct English to say “till”.
Some people have the strange belief that you must “persuade” someone to “convince” them, but you cannot “convince” a person. In fact, persuade is a synonym (means the same thing) for convince – and this usage goes back to the 16th century. It can mean both to attempt to convince, and to succeed in convincing. It is not common anymore to say things like “I am persuaded that you are an idiot” – though this is also correct English.

While it is admittedly logical and traditional to make the distinction between these two words, but phrases such as “part of a healthy breakfast” have become so common nowadays that they can not be considered wrong (except by pedants). It is also interesting to note that in English, adjectives connected to a sensation in the viewer (such as happy) are often transferred to the object or event they are viewing, for example: “a happy coincidence” or “a gloomy landscape”.
For most Americans, the natural thing to say is “Climb down off of [pronounced "offa"] that horse, Tex, with your hands in the air”; but many U.K. authorities urge that the “of” should be omitted as redundant. Where British English reigns you may want to omit the “of” as superfluous, but common usage in the U.S. has rendered “off of” so standard as to generally pass unnoticed, though some American authorities also discourage it in formal writing. But if “onto” makes sense, so does “off of.” However, “off of” meaning “from” in phrases like “borrow five dollars off of Clarice” is definitely nonstandard.
It is also quite common in New Zealand to use “off of” as well – presumably as a result of the English being spoken in the Empire at the time of New Zealand’s founding.
Some people insist that since “none” is derived from “no one” it should always be singular: “none of us is having dessert.” However, in standard usage, the word is most often treated as a plural. “None of us are having dessert” is perfectly fine. I spent many days debating this point with my Ancient Greek tutor via email quotations of its use as a plural (my tutor believed it to be singular only). Neither of us could convince the other but I firmly stand by my belief that it can be used as both plural and singular. εστω!
There are actually many instances in which the conservative usage is to refer to a person using “that” rather than “who”: “All the politicians that were at the party later denied even knowing the host”. This phrase is actually more traditional than “politicians who”. It appears that this issue has sprung mostly from the politically correct idea that it is demeaning to refer to a person as “that” rather than “who”. In some sentences it is clearly better to use “that”: “She is the only person I know of that prefers whipped cream on her cereal.” And in the following case, it would be ridiculous to use “that” for “who”: “Who was it that said, ‘A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle’?”

It offends those who wish to confine English usage in a logical straitjacket that writers often begin sentences with “and” or “but.” True, one should be aware that many such sentences would be improved by becoming clauses in compound sentences; but there are many effective and traditional uses for beginning sentences in this way. One example is the reply to a previous assertion in a dialogue: “But, my dear Watson, the criminal obviously wore expensive boots or he would not have taken such pains to scrape them clean.” It would be wise to make it a rule to consider whether your conjunction would sound more natural in the previous sentence or whether it would lose its emphasis by being demoted from its place at the start of a new sentence.
If you want to keep the crusty old-timers happy, try to avoid ending written sentences (and clauses) with prepositions, such as to, with, from, at, and in. Instead of writing “The topics we want to write on,” where the preposition on ends the clause, consider “The topics on which we want to write.” Prepositions should usually go before (pre-position) the words they modify.
On the other hand, if a sentence is more graceful with a final preposition, leave it that way. For instance, “He gave the public what it longed for” is clear and idiomatic, even though it ends with a preposition; “He gave the public that for which it longed” avoids the problem but doesn’t look like English. A sentence becomes unnecessarily obscure when it is filled with “from whoms” and “with whiches”.
The famous witticism usually attributed to Winston Churchill makes the point well: “This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.”
For the hyper-critical, “to boldly go where no man has gone before” should be “to go boldly…” It is good to be aware that inserting one or more words between “to” and a verb is not strictly speaking an error, and is often more expressive and graceful than moving the intervening words elsewhere; but so many people are offended by split infinitives that it is probably better to avoid them except when the alternatives sound strained and awkward.
There are some very obvious times that the split infinitive is far superior:
Murders are expected to more than double next year. (split infinitive)
Murders are expected more than to double next year. (intact infinitive)
However, you could say: “Murders are expected to increase by more than double next year” – but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the split infinitive example above.
Source: Common Errors in English Usage




















goof_ball, I have a supervisor that feels the same way. He *****es me off with his grammar. He likes to say or write things that are wrong just because he knows it *****es me off.
To me, the bad grammar in the assorted notes that are posted around my workplace is not something that is funny, it’s unprofessional. There is a place for proper grammar, and this is most certainly that place.
My big pet peeve outside of that? People that use a ‘t’ instead of ‘ed’ for words in the past tense. Oh, sure, I know this was taught as the norm at one time, but haven’t we moved beyond it yet?
In South Africa we use English spelling. Words like colour. Please could someone let me know if this type of spelling is considered correct in America?
Whoever it was asking about the or/our spelling differences in US/UK English, you might find this interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#-our.2C_-or
It is rather too long for me to boil down here as it all happened over a long period if time
J.Coustark. Yes you are right, thank goodness for the parents who correct our grammer and encourage us to use dictionaries
I am teaching English in Korea. EVERY DAY I am struck by the rules-within-rules-except-when-there-are-exceptions of English grammar. I have said on many occasions something like “The purpose of language is communication. If you can communicate clearly using bad grammar, go ahead and do it, but your best chance of being understand by the greatest number of people is to use correct grammar”. That said, there have been hundreds of times I have had to take the line of least grammatical resistance, in order for the lesson not to get bogged down.
Comments on the original 10, but not on the comments.
#7 I found out only recently that “healthful” is actually an English word and not Konglish (Korean English). Know that I know that it is actually an English word, I will never use it anyway.
#6 “Off of” is also used in South Australia, which was settled at the same time as NZ. They also used “Where do you live to?” which used to drive me crazy!
#2 “Put up with” is one “concept”. The sentence could be rendered “This is the sort of English which I will not tolerate”.
“You all” is fairly common, but I cringe. One of my colleagues recently said “who all”. She had noticed fast food bags in the staff room, and said to our Korean colleagues “Who all’s been to (fast food outlet)?”. More than one bag = more than one “who”????
If there are any grammatical errors in this, please don’t point them out. I’ve had a long day with Korean high school students.
atraya: I hear “who all” quite often – not from the Brits, but from kiwis and interaction with Americans on the internet. It is a very weird phrase. On another note – I had a holiday in Korea once and loved it – what a great country. I will definitely go back sometime!
Loved this list.
I live in Australia, and whilst I think it’s possible people would make the #4 mistake (“who”/”that”) I don’t think I’ve ever heard it. Maybe we speak better English than you do over there?? Haha, I’m just kidding.
The folks over in NZ never use archaic English, so don’t worry.
Thank you,
In South Africa we say two very incorrect things. The first is we say ‘aswell’.. I am coming aswell.. translated means I will also be coming. The second is when we say ‘just now’.. I will be there just now.. it means a little later. Other English speakers find this very strange.
“who all” isn’t necessarily an example of flat-out “bad grammar,” though–anymore than “y’all”… these are in fact regional “dialect-isms.” This is the beauty of English–it has a flexibility and weirdness that allows it to be in flux, changing and sucking in influences from other languages all the time–not just words, but styles of speech, cadences…. hence the sing-song sound of Southern American speech, Creole, Cajun, etc.
Atraya: my sympathies, though, trying to teach this stuff to non-English speakers. It’s amazing that people get it as well as they do.
Sunshine: I agree that the “just now” thing is very weird. I do think that “as well” is actually perfectly fine English and is found in other English speaking nations as well
NOTE: As well is ALWAYS spelt as two words
Who all, you all (almost always contracted as y’all) and what all are commonly used in Texas. No, not by everyone, but by many. Examples: Who all’s going to the barbecue? Are all of y’all going? What all are you bringing? (Yes, people do say all of y’all sometimes.)
Sunshine: The spelling of colour is considered foreign rather than incorrect in the US. We use “as well” in the US to mean “also” just as you did in your example.
Question for the grammar aces: Can someone please explain the difference between sprang and sprung in plain English? Either I’m confused about its proper use, or the word sprang is disappearing from the US vocabulary. The same goes for shrank and shrunk. “The dog sprung from his bed.” “The sweater shrunk in the wash.” Wrong, right?
Question for the grammar aces: Can someone please explain the difference between sprang and sprung in plain English? Either I’m confused about its proper use, or the word sprang is disappearing from the US vocabulary. The same goes for shrank and shrunk. “The dog sprung from his bed.” “The sweater shrunk in the wash.” Wrong, right?
NoPunyNerd: Sprang is the past tense, sprung is the past participle (requiring the use of an extra verb) – the following two sentences are both correct:
She sprang to help the sick man.
The flowers have sprung up in the garden.
And – many thanks to Disney for abusing “to shrink” – the following is correct:
Honey, I shrank the kids (the movie is WRONGLY titled Honey, I shrunk the kids)
Also correct is:
I have shrunk the kids, or also acceptable (and nicer in my mind) is Honey, I have shrunken the kids.
Hope that clears it up
Thanks, Jamie … that’s exactly what I thought. Unfortunately, on this side of the pond, shrunk and sprung are used in most instances. It drives me crazy every time I hear it — including on CNN, National Public Radio, network news, Congress, you name it! I feel compelled to say, sometimes aloud, “No, it shrank,” or, “No, it sprang.” I suppose that drives those around me crazy.
reminds me of a point my friend brought up a while back.
all words in the english language can be categorised into Verb, adverb, adjective, noun etc.
But the word ‘very’ when used in certain context does not, such as ‘This very heart’ (shakespeare) in what context is the word there?
Randall: I didn’t mean to imply that “who all” is bad grammar. I just “described” that a colleague had said it. What amazes me about English grammar is that we learn most of it, at least intuitively, by the time we are 5. During my primary school years, the education department phased out grammar and I got none from then on. Any grammar I know is self-taught.
jfrater: I’ve had a ball teaching English in Korea, though high school students are a whole lot noisier and a whole lot less conversational than language academy students. At the high school I don’t have any English-speaking colleagues, so will probably contribute more to Listverse discussions to keep sane.
I’ve got half a mind to submit a list about Korea, but I’m not sure exactly what. “Top 10 English mistakes made by Korean students of English” might have limited appeal.
My last comments (hopefully):
In any “real” language (eg not Esperanto) the language came/comes first, then the grammar was/is formulated to describe it.
Grammar changes all the time. Just about everything we now accept as “good” grammar started off as someone’s “shock-horror-the-end-of-civilisation-as-we-know-it”.
For every “if you say this you will sound like an uneducated yokel” there is an equal and opposite “if you say this you will sound like a pretentious *****er”.
Uhh… Good list? I consider myself sort of a grammar-nazi when speaking (even though English is my second language). Still anything relating to grammar puts me to sleep.
I’ve caught my fair share of people harassing me about my tenses. Language can only evolve by being used in different ways. I type the way I speak. I even make it a point in the lists to put proper notes in. Even when you don’t see it right off, there is still a way that it is read. Hence, my capital letters in the middle of a sentence and my constant mish-mash of past/present/future verbage (see new word, you know what I’m saying and that’s all I care about). Evolution of language, a far cry from Esperanto. But, hey, what are you going to?
I work with many intelligent people, but I hear the following waaay too often:
1. If you have any questions, please contact myself or Larry.
2. There’s two jelly donuts left on my desk.
3. We should have went to the lab already.
#96 jfrater:
I get it…you smart ass
Your example “Murders are expected to increase by more than double next year” does not contain a split infinitive. The infinitive used is “to increase.” “Double” functions as a noun, I think.
However “by more than double” would technically suggest something above tripling, as an increase of double an amount leaves triple said amount.
Octavian– no, double was a verb there. You just copied the sentence wrong– you took it to be ‘Murders are expected to increase by more than double…’– the actual sentence was ‘Murders are expected to more than double…’
And what’s the deal with passives? Why are passive sentences wrong? If they are wrong, why does the passive voice exist? I think that passives are not necessarily wrong; I think that in many cases the active voice sounds better than the passive, but that if one wishes to use the passive then hats off to them. I think that people should realize, however, the differences between the two, expecially if you’re planning to take a language– in my Latin class, we cannot translate a verb as passive if it is active.
I did not “take it to be” anything–I pressed control and v, which is a command to copy exact sentences, not what anyone thinks he or she read. I was talking about the example that follows “However, you could say…”
I have nothing against passives, but they often add clumsiness.
Sorry; I thought that you were copying the original example as opposed to what you actually were copying.
a can full of Words
worms for the soil
lexicon of slang
manure for the mind
nutrients and salvation
I think splitting infinitives is totally valid in English – we should embrace this versatility in our language.
Re: Persuade versus convince: I believe this is a case where the meanings of the words have evolved; I would never use convince as would persuade.
English has a 2nd person plural… y’all.
Passive voice is bad because it usually obscures who or what did the thing. It also implies that something “just happened” instead of being done. For example “Mistakes were made.” Um.. . okay, WHO made the mistakes? Or when a kid comes in and says, “The window was broken.” when he really means that HE broke the window. Saying “I broke the window.” shows who did it while the passive kind of implies that it just happened.
This is a great quote about English: “English doesn’t borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.”
Verbing weirds language. I love that you can use nouns as verbs, verbs as nouns, etc… in English.
Did you know that English is apparently, one of the hardest languages to learn.
Like, “where” and “wear”
“read”, “reed”, “read”
“led”, “lead”, “lead”
etc…
But, if its so difficult, why do so many people learn it as a second language? They learn it is Frace, Sweden, and I dont know where else, Germany I think, in some schools.
“in France”, not “is France”
Sorry
Me, Myself and Do I really have to type this every time?: Try Icelandic.
Try Chinese.
Mandarin even!
Mandarin’s grammar is easy; it’s the sounds that are hard.
When I read “The Power of Babel” I learned about a language in Africa that has 16 “genders”; and have you ever seen what poor Irish people go through trying to learn Irish Gaelic?
My friends who’ve learned English as a second language have told me the hardest things are prolific idioms and exceptions, spelling and phrasal verbs. I imagine the first two are common in any language as a foreign one.
I guess I am a Grammar Nazi, because I prefer to twist awkwardly my written and spoken English to better conform to accepted grammatical standards. I am saddened and appalled by the lack of attention paid to these important rules and the general erosion of English. We are become our own Idiocracy.
Wow! I find this banter intriguing, to say the least! My buddy just directed me to this site today, and I suspect I’ll become a regular reader… time permitting.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned the VERY common misuse of the word ‘impact’ in media today, but OH BOY is that one of my major brain boilers!
PennGos: In the time of Caesar, the upper crust lamented that the Latin spoken by the underclass was so debased that it wasn’t even Latin anymore. At every point in time, we bemoan the degradation of our languages. We have to maintain standards, definitely, but also realise languages evolve. This is especially true, I think, as a language acquires more and more foreign speakers, as they will tend towards rules when they don’t know the exceptions (‘I goed to the store’ vs ‘I went to the store’). We must embrace change, while not letting it get too sloppy; a very hard balance to find!
4: It’s only ridiculous in that case because “who” is not being used as a link, it’s being used as a subject.
Who is this kid?
fadi is from Pakistan – his comment has been deleted. The others are from Milton-Keynes in the UK – their comments have been deleted and the IP banned. I am guessing their teacher just used this list as a resource and they decided to come on later for some fun. Why is it always English children that make the most noise here?
Don’t ask me, I’m just a screwed up Yank.
My pet peeves: People telling other people how they ought to talk. Judging a person’s intelligence based on their adherence to standard grammar. Etc.
“It is also quite common in New Zealand to use “off of” as well”
- ‘also’ = ‘as well’
Interesting that you say “off of” is in common use in New Zealand. It’s not something I ever really noticed in 20 years of living there. What I did notice though, was people saying, “should of” and, “would of” instead of, “should have” and, “would have.”
One thing I have often wondered about is when someone says or writes, “that that”? Is it better to use one or two ‘that’s? E.g. “This is the house that that man was talking about.”
I prefer to use the double that, especially when you’re speaking the phrase and gesturing towards the person or thing you’re talking about. And I have always been told that what you write should be consistent with how you would speak the sentence (assuming perfect conversational skills of course!). Plus, to me, it just seems more elegant and balanced to write/say, “that that.”
Am I wrong?
Tempyra: I think “that that” is OK in some cases – in your example, though, I think you could say “This is the house which that man was talking about” if you want to be clear or more varied, or simply “This is the house that man was talking about” is fine.
I don’t think people are actually saying “should of” and “would of” – they are saying “should’ve” and “would’ve” – they just might not know it when they write it.
Cheers,
Shaun
Oh I’ve heard people say “should of” and “would of” clearly, but it’s often indistinct. It is something I’ve seen people actually right though!
Argggh… “write” not “right”. Stupid brain… it’s a homonym!
Oh.. my god, number 2 (second to last)
Crusty old timers! i just laughed so hard!
Amazingly enough, though I’m only 13, I knew most of this… I feel like such a grammar buff
I wasn’t sure if ’til or till was correct (I preferred ’til). I’m a pain-in-the-ass grammar policewoman, too – so these are just great for me. Thanks so much for helping along my cause – as annoying as it is, I know.
Intact infinitives give me the willies.
@stevenh
Your example of a double positive becoming negative is a handy little tool of the intelligent called sarcasm, which is not that same as saying “Ain’t got no” or what ever nonsense that is.
re #9
I prefer ’til as the diminutive of until, as the word till can be synonymous with cash register, as in the curious phrase: “Put the take in the till.”
But now for the big question. Is it okay to say “aks”? as in “She aksed me if I cared.”
Bad grammar is really annoying, but perfect grammar is definitely more irksome. Didn’t know most of these obscure rules, oh and I thought that ‘had had’ was only used in the passive voice? Correct me if im wrong on this please
well honestly this page is okai…but theres really nothing wrong with ”Becareful fro wat u wish for”…It does make sense to me…
Du3zzzzzz
Very interesting!!
I’m sorry to say that in Ireland, grammar is not taught to school students any longer, with the result that most of us speak and write English incorrectly.
What irks me the most though, is the improper use of apostrophes. For example, I saw a poster in the local shop advertising apples for sale. However, apples was spelled ‘apple’s’.
I also hate it when people use ‘affects’ in the place of ‘effects’ and, of course, when people mix up ‘your’ and ‘you’re’, ‘their’ and ‘there’ and ‘they’re’.
I don’t pretend to be perfect myself, I certainly am not. I probably make mistakes too, I may even have made some in this text, but I think we should all strive to at least preserve the basic rules.
Over here, we often use ‘ye’ to indicate you plural.
Re: #7 …
A happy coincidence means a lucky coincidence, from ‘hap’ meaning ‘chance’.
A gloomy landscape refers to a landscape that is gloomy (dark/dim/obscure), not a landscape that makes one gloomy (melancholic)
Neither of these situations are at all similar to calling a breakfast ‘healthy’, except if we concede that (now) something ‘healthy’ is something possessing healthful qualities. Which the word is taken to mean commonly.
Other than that failure in logic/example, a very entertaining list for a descriptive linguist such as myself
Perhaps you could define “pedant” for us. “Grammar Nazi” is clever but dismissive. I happen to agree with your conclusions in the ten examples listed above, but as an English professor of almost 30 years, I believe that standard usage is important to foster and maintain. It’s not that the language can’t change; all living languages do. But changes need to become part of the standard, not violations of it. Does that make me a “pedant”? Ah, well.
Split infinitives and ending sentences with prepositions is a peeve. However, I don’t mind starting sentences with conjunctions as long as it isn’t overdone.
SallySweet: Wouldn’t the question, “What for?”, ***** you off, kind of sort of?
Ain’t is a word and was used mostly in Elizabethan times. It was a conjunction of “I am not.”
And the phrase is actually “A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.”
Just an FYI – ‘None’ is actually from a select group of indefinite pronouns: all, any, most, none, some. They are an odd group in the sense that their singular or plural nature is based upon the object of the prepositional phrase that follows the pronoun. For example, you would say “None of the team is here” because ‘team’ is singular. On the other hand, you would say ‘None of the players are here” because ‘players’ is plural’. I know, it’s pathetic that I even know this but when can I say.