Global Warming seems to be in the main stream media every day now. Despite the threats of melting ice shelves resulting in mass flooding, and temperatures that will destroy the earth environment as we know it, the BBC reports that we have had 10 years of cooling. Despite this, the debate rages. No one can dispute that Global Warming has produced a worldwide market for scientists and apologists that will lose a lot of money if Global Warming is found to not be true; the question is: is Global Warming Real or is it a myth being perpetuated by supporters of money swallowing policies such as the Kyoto Protocol and media giants?
Is Global Warming Real and Is It Caused by Man?
My answer is that we have not had sufficient time to truly gauge whether we are in a warming period. It was not so many years ago that the MSM and Scientists were warning us of an up and coming ice age – now we are spending a LOT of money every year for people who claim we are in fact heating our planet. The biggest concern to me is that so many people now rely on global warming to keep their jobs, that they may be too biased to give us an honest view. I predict that in 10 years, Global Warming will be laughed at as a fad of the 2000s.
Remember: treat everyone with respect, and no ad hominems!
Global Warming is an inane issue. What's more important is the serious overpopulation, energy and natural resource problems which no sems to talk about.
Whether or not it is true, we have to seriously reconsider our relationship with the natural world and treat it with much more respect.
overpopulation!?!!?! seriously?!?!?! have you ever driven through Texas or Oklahoma???? full of….nothing but empty fields!
Did you ever go to places such as Mumbai in India? Do you know how small Bangladesh is? Even with its small size, its the 9th most populated country in the world with a population of 142,319,000 people.
Sorry, I meant to say “it’s” not “its”.
Finally, I’ve been waiting for this, My answer is that global warming is natural, but we as humans are definitely speed up the process of it. i mean, look at the 30′s, the Earth was heating up a LOT. But ten later years or so later, the Earth began to cool down.
-Gets popcorn, water, and Al Gore- This could get interesting….
Greenhouse gases are natural, and they keep heat on the planet. Humans have been releasing more of these gases by burning fossil fuels and by deforestation. If there are more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, it is logical to assume that the earth will retain more heat and global warming will occur.
Its really too bad that it can’t be looked at in a simple way like this because of what jfraater said, people make money off of it and therefore its the subject of controversy.
I just want to go on record here and now and say that, regardless of whether or not global warming is a true phenomena happening at a dangerous pace, Al Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth” was one of the worse, most sensationalist pieces of crap I’ve ever had the misfortune of watching. It was so poorly done, from a scientific standpoint, that it would turn any logical viewer with a background in the sciences off of caring about global warming.
*worst
i just don’t know anymore. i remember people saying that global warming was so bad that we are going to start to experiance longer summers and shorter winters,………well i live in chicago and the news was talking about seeing some snow next week,now we are in april and i’m still seeing snowflakes around my area. it seems to me that winter will just not go away. so like i said before i just don’t know anymore. but i can say that i’m looking foward to seeing everyones view’s,comments,and response’s.
JT- Why do you think its inane?
I agree with the rest of what you said, espescially about overpopulation – its scary.
JT: actually – I find the overpopulation thing interesting – the UN predicts that by 2050, the third world will have increased in population from 5 to 7 billion people – there is a LOT of land mass there – and great potential to feed them through good farming etc. (which is hindered often by corrupt governments). The UN also says that by 2050 the rest of the world population will remain unchanged. It seems to me that people who are worried about overpopulation are worried about an increase in births in mostly black nations – for most westerners this will have no effect on them. Why are we concerned about the growth in population in nations that have the natural resources to cope (presuming their governments sort things out)?
jon: I go to school here in Chicago, and I’m actually taking a class sort of on global warming right now. On Thursday, when it was so rainy and gross out, our professor tried to bill it as global warming happening (essentially) the same way it did in “The Day After Tomorrow”, and then told us we could help matters by becoming vegetarians and shunning all beef products. :rolls eyes:
oh – from what I just said, forgetting the third world for a moment – the rest of the world has a stagnant population – no growth or loss at all.
And for what it’s worth, the growth rate of the population (of the world, not specific nations) has, more or less, plateaued in the last 5 years.
jon: Chinas has just had the coldest winter on record since many many years ago. The UK seems to be in winter still (it is hailing right now) – last year this time we had a barbecue and got sunburnt. There is no doubt that there has not been a global increase in temperature in the last ten years – but the pro warming people tell us that we can’t just look at ten years – so why not? What if the next ten years are colder as well? How is it that we can predict the world’s temperature for the next 100 years but we can’t predict whether it will be sunny or wet next weekend? It sounds like psychohistory to me (refer to the Foundation Novels for the definition of psychohistory)
Jen: exactly! It is a great opportunity for greenies to force us to follow their lifestyle choice – but what if that is ALL it is?
i agree with Csimmons that it is a natural process(the earth has been getting gradually warmer since the end of the ice age some 11,000 years ago) but humans are releasing more greenhouse gases than the earth is prone to.
For more on overpopulation check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation#Population_projections_from_the_1900s_to_2050
“The population of 51 countries or areas, including Germany, Italy, Japan and most of the successor States of the former Soviet Union, is expected to be lower in 2050 than in 2005.”
“Birth rates are now falling in many developing countries, while the actual populations in many developed countries would fall without immigration.”
“In 2000-2005, fertility at the world level stood at 2.65 children per woman, about half the level it had in 1950-1955 (5 children per woman). In the medium variant, global fertility is projected to decline further to 2.05 children per woman.”
That seems to suggest a loss in growth – not an increase.
While birth rate is falling for indigenous people in the developed world, the immigration rate is skyrocketing. Plus the link you posted suggests that the world population will reach well over 8 billion by 2050 (though the Living Planet Report calcualted 9.2 billion), which I predict will lead to a disaster of malthusian proportions. In fact, a study by the WWF and the Global Footprint Network suggests that we will require two planets to satisfy our needs by then. The signs are already around us – diminishing wildlife, disappearing forests, resource shortages, climate disasters – we are heading for a REAL disaster I predict.
As for Africa, that problem could be solved by using GM crops, which countries are reluctant to do, and distributing contraception with vigour. The President of South Africe doesn’t believe in AIDS and 25% of his peope, are infected with it. The Pope endorsing contraception in Africa would also be a good constribution.
Does anyone who does not feel global warming is a real thing, believe that the excessive release of gases into the atmosphere is ok?
I mean, fine, if you don’t think global warming is probable, but does it make it okay that these gases in the atmosphere are increasing? Something will happen if we just move forward in the same way, haphazardly, and not try to focus at least some of our energy on repairing our mistakes.
It really makes me tired to hear people say “Oh its cold out today, wheres global warming now?” Hop in their suv and crank the heat.
And regarding overpopulation: just because the earth’s population is not increasing AS FAST, does not mean that it is not increasing. Where are we going to put all of these people, and what will they eat? Or should we just not care since they are in third world countries and our countries have stagnant populations? (is this what you mean jfrater?)
I don’t want to be arguementitive but people are so quick to dimiss environmental problems and it is a very real problem. I understand why too: no one wants to be told what to do, and environmentalists going around yelling at people and being radical just makes regular folk want to do the harmful things more, or at the very least stop listening and do what they want.
JT: re GM crops – do we really want to replace our natural crops with copyrighted crops? Have you heard about the farmer suicides in India relating to Monsanto and GM crops?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#Farmer_Suicides_in_India
Additionally, contraception has not done anything to cause a reduction in birthrate. And, while your wish for the Pope to endorse contraception would certainly help to spread its use, the Pope is unable to do so as it is a defined Catholic dogma that contraception is a mortal sin – therefore no Pope can ever endorse or even allow its use.
Oh – here is a citation for “contraception doesn’t reduce pregnancy”:
http://www.lifenews.com/int604.html
Most definitely in my mind this issue is largely driven by ideology first. While I won’t argue against the fact that humans contribute to CO2 production, I see little evidence for the drastic calamities espoused by the faithful. What I do see, and am increasingly frustrated by is a tendency by the global warming faithful to use science politically. Consensus does not a theory make, and as an unscientific observer I see plenty of evidence that contradicts those who say the planet is warming.
With that I’m contemplating heading up to Mt. Hood where there has been plenty of fresh snow in the last week adding to already record snow fall levels. Spring skiing? Bah – we’re still enjoying old man winter in April.
Ooh, interesting topic! I think it’s a partly a natural process, but we’re doing a great job of making things worse. I kind agree with JFrater, that it’ll be a fad and we’ll be laughing about it 10 years from now on Vh1 shows. Kind of like El Nino, ya know?
jadester: I was not suggesting it is not a problem because the growth is in third world countries – I am saying that the ONLY growth is in third world countries and they have the land and ability to deal with it (if their governments spend money on the land and not weapons). I believe that is what I said in my first post
Chaz: Don’t read any Bruno Latour!
I think it is very important to reduce pollution to improve things like drinking water and protecting wildlife, but I think global warming is over-hyped. For some to say that we’ve nearly destroyed an entire planet millions of years old in a few decades is over the top. I think we should clean-up locally, but earth will be ok globally
The hype is being driven by corporations as a way to increase sales. The Alliance to Save Energy is a coalition of businesses that lobby for policy changes; a recent one was the banning of traditional light bulbs in the Clean Energy Bill of 2007. These corporations will make billions by selling their new higher priced florescent bulbs.
The worst is GE, which uses its news channel MSNBC to promote green issues, ad nauseum. It’s never mentioned though that GE is one of the worlds largest polluters.
These companies are using catchy slogans like “ecomagination” to get people to buy their lastest washers and fridges, and get people to overlook the fact that these companies really haven’t reduced their waste and emissions.
I predict in 10 years, when everyone has their new light bulbs, new dryers, etc., global warming will be phased out and then the corporations will come up with some new threat to grow sales.
The people making the most money off of the issue are oil companies that are biased against global warming, as well as any other envirernmental controls. MSNBC is owned by Comcast
I just didn’t understand what you meant. That is true that it is only in third world countries, but how long could they possibly sustain themselves? They can’t even do it now… and we are the ones who use their land for our production needs. Let’s be honest, we pay these countries lots of money to let us use their land and the money goes to these leaders who will never but their people before money.
Maybe a few of these nations will sort themselves out but the vast majority will stay this way for a very long time, espescially if we keep showing a need for their resources.
*put
Sorry i have a stuffed up nose
jesus causes global warming
jadester: we can’t nanny these developing nations – they must come to their own aid – if the government won’t help – they must fight to get government that will. Before they reach a crisis of overpopulation they will fix their governments. It is far too early for us to add yet another “world crisis” – we are already spending a fortune on an unprovable Global warming – let’s not add to the pot
“JT: re GM crops – do we really want to replace our natural crops with copyrighted crops? Have you heard about the farmer suicides in India relating to Monsanto and GM crops?”
According to that article they do work, and the main reason for the suicides is poor management in one area. My suggestion is not to replace natural crops, but merely to use GM crops in areas where it is necessary. This article sums up my feelings: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5391/is_200207/ai_n21315895
And though I know, Catholics see contraception as a mortal sin, I don’t personally know of any Catholics who abide by these laws. Jesus came to get rid of the ridiculous OT laws and instill a new, more liberal ideology of doing no harm and trying to help those in trouble. I think when children in Africa are being born already infected with AIDs because young African men can not control there urges, this is a serious issue, and the Pope, who is an ideological leader to many Catholic Africans, would do well to at least suggest somekind of solution to thsi problem, apart from abstinence, which can only fail.
The article you linked mentioned only the pill, when I was referring specifically to condoms. In a country where 1 in 4 people is infected with AIDs, not using a condom is idiotic.
JT: my point was that the Pope is not ABLE to allow contraceptives – so don’t look to him to support that
As for Catholics who use them – that is between them and God – but they are committing a serious sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Contraception condemnation is not an old testament thing – it was taught by the apostles as well – hence its presence in Christianity through the Catholic Church.
Regardless of my own feelings on the matter – I really don’t see why abstinence is not an acceptable alternative – if you don’t ***** – you don’t get disease – that is a 100% guarantee. For 100% of people who practice it – it works. Why discard it?
i was pretty damn cold last night
jesse: I was pelted by hail today – AND we had thunder and lightning.
jfrater: I know we shouldn’t nanny them, but I think we as consumers should take the responsibility of not needing such luxurious lives that nations need to suffer.
In a way, overpopulation or at least starvation has reached crisis levels in some countries and their governments havent stepped in yet – what makes you think they would with a bigger population? I would never underestimate the power of some people’s greed.
But if the governments do decide to get their acts together and they prosperous nations and not starving then what happens? We have nations of people who live like capatilists and they would be wanting bigger houses, cars, etc. But now, (I’m using your figure here) we have 5 billion MORE people living this way and using up resources. So really, a cure for this crisis would not be simply to grow crops in lands that have starvation but to reprogram people to either (a) not want to live such luxurious lives or (b) begin a population decline, which would take a lot of leadership and may not be noticable for maybe a century.
So if you look at it this way, we are kind of already in a situation where overpopulation is inevitable.
And, no matter which way this plays out, the countries that we live in will have their quality of life affected – simply by the depletion of resources.
I believe global warming to be a naturally occurring phenomenon that we are exacerbating through excessive release of greenhouse gases. Everything I’ve read says that the speed of change (ocean temperatures, global temperatures – don’t go by 1 or 2 years, there can be small blips in an overall trend, decreasing ice shelf, decreasing glaciers, melting of permafrost etc) are happening quicker than ever before experienced. Ice cores, peat bogs, and the like provide the evidence.
I don’t believe the total destruction, doom and gloom outcome either. I think we will end up with more extremes in weather; more storms, higher winds, Hardest hit will be marginal areas – it will put them over the edge. (Growing desert in Sudan)
We should do what we can. Burning fossil fuels for power is still one of the major contributors of pollution, so increase funding for alternate power sources, provide monetary incentives (tax breaks and the like) for converting to environmentally innocuous practices. Its a good idea anyway, it would be great to come up with an alternative before we run out of fossil fuels altogether. I don’t believe anyone will say that our current practices are good for the environment.
Thank you jfrater, I didn’t realise contraception was a NT matter, I thought it was an OT oddity, like eating shrimp being a one way ticket to Hell. However, did Jesus have anything to say on the matter? Because the apostles were simply products of their era, and can’t really be seen as authoratative on matters of morality I would imagine. After all, it was Paul who said that “drunkards, adulterers and homo*****uals” would never see the gates of Heaven. I was just hoping that the Pope could “re-interpret” Catholic dogma, the way he did with tenets such as the Assumption, evolution and the requirememnts of sainthood, as to suggest that, in extreme circumstances, contraception CAN be seen as an alternative, if say, you know you’re going to get AIDs from your partner.
As for abstinence, it is ideal. But we’re not talking about a utopia here, or even Western Europe. We’re talking about Africa, where there’s nothing to do BUT “*****”, where rape rates are astronomical and where people are simply too uneducated and uncultured to make rational decisions regarding *****. So I support abstinence in the same way I support bubble suits – great, but not going to happen. That’s why condoms are vital, along, of course with ***** education.
yes and yes.
My question is: why does it matter if we’re causing global warming? We have to change anyway, so rather than needing an excuse like “the planet will kill us all”, shouldn’t we just do it because it’s necessary?
There isn’t enough proof that global warming is caused by humans. Volcanoes release more toxins into the atmosphere than we do and I don’t see anyone clambering to put corks in them to stop it. The point is, it doesn’t matter if we’re causing it. We still have to get off fossil fuels and to different forms of energy that are renewable and reliable. The sun is reliable. Wind is moderately reliable, the ocean currents are rather reliable. Why aren’t we making significant efforts to utilize these natural functions? Oil will run out (though I don’t believe for a second it’s in the next 20 years…there’s no shortage…sorry, there isn’t, it’s a load of bunk and the oil companies know it).
The solution isn’t to deal with global warming, because if the planet is warming up, we can’t stop it anyway. We humans are exceedingly arrogant when we think we can accurately control the Earth. Over and over again this little planet has shown us that we have no control whatsoever. We can’t stop tidal floods, we can’t stop volcanoes or Earth quakes or tornadoes, or any of it. The planet is going to do whatever it wants and we’re here for the ride.
But we can control how we use the planet for our own means. We need alternate fuels and we don’t need them next year, we need them tomorrow. Oil companies should be significantly investing in these things because when the oil runs out, they’re out of jobs.
I don’t believe in Global Warming. I think the problem with GW people now is that they are doing exactly what the anti-GW folks used to do: ignoring evidence to the contrary (legit evidence mind you). You don’t have the whole picture and for anyone to tell us we’re killing the planet without proper evidence is unethical. There is too much evidence against GW and too much for it for us to be certain what is happening. Not to mention the fact that this little planet used to be a lot warming than it is now and technically the planet has been warming up for a long time ever since the ice age. If the planet is doing what it does naturally anyway then we really can’t do much about it. We just have to change because it’s the right thing to do, not because it’s meant to save our butts. Give me hydrogen powered cars and really good solar power and get rid of annoying oil and crap. I don’t like oil anyway, it’s useless in the long run.
We’re talking about Africa, where there’s nothing to do BUT “*****”, where rape rates are astronomical and where people are simply too uneducated and uncultured to make rational decisions regarding *****.
Hmm, sounds like Alabama.
Seriously, though, abstinence doesn’t “work” anywhere, because people are always going to have *****. Promoting abstinence is only going to result in people knowing less about what to do to protect themselves (from disease and babies) once they’re having it.
I think we’re *****ing over the environment by polluting it, but I don’t believe in global warming. I mean, come on, it’s been 32 degrees outside every morning in Southern California since December.
JT: Can you give me an example of the Dogma that contradicts the current teachings on evolution (science – so not dogmatic), the Assumption (defined as a dogma but not in contradiction to any other dogma that says otherwise), and requirements of sainthood (not dogmatic – but practical)? As far as I am aware – dogma is a very strictly defined thing – a pope can not contradict a dogmatic decree. The three things you mention are not in contradiction to any defined dogmas. A dogmatic decree has been made on contraception (Humanae Vitae – Paul VI I think).
No Pope has ever contradicted another dogmatic decree – if the assumption was a “re-interpretation” there had to be a former decree that declared it otherwise.
I certainly look forward to seeing the decrees you come up with!
well… just because it’s colder now has NO say in what warming trends are. it can be the worst winter on record in a long time… but the general trend is still going up. i think what i learned form my class was that there is a cycling of temperatures every 10-20 years of abnormal hot and cold, but this trend still goes upwards.
but even if you don’t believe it (which i do) it’s still nice to do things to prevent all the ’causes’, right? less carbon emissions, sustainable environment… it still does good for the earth no matter if it would help warming or not~
global warming is a fad. This earth has been through so many more serious things that a tiny tiny temperature increase over a hundred year period. Its a cult that companies are marketing on in order to sell more hybrid cars and “green” household detergents.
its all BS that record numbers of people are believing, and I think its shamefull.
The earth has been warmer (and cooler) in the past.I think that in 20 years people will watch Al Gores movie the same way “Reefer Madness” is watched today. The sun is a nuclear furnace ,not a gas fire.It burns hotter at times,and cooler at other times. The fact that convinces me is the polar ice caps on Mars are shrinking . Is it from the two rovers we sent or could it be that the sun is burning a little hotter at this point in time?
Alls I know is that when I was a kid, we used to get a white Christmas. Not any more. Now we get both blazing sunshine and hailstones every God-damn day. You may think that global warming is BS but if you can’t tell me any other reason for this crazy weather then maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to write it off.
jfrater: I use the word dogma so often I forgot it had a strict religious meaning. Simple misunderstanding.
JT: NP
(I’m a poet!)
no.
its natural.
perfect example of junk science imo.
Scientists told us we were heading for the next ice age 50 years ago. Why? So they could make money.
Al Gore’s net worth when he ran for pres in 2004 = 1million
Al Gore’s net worth after his global warming hysteria campaign = 100 million.
Really, if scientists were wrong 50 years ago about an ice age, then why should we believe them now?
Chickensoup; Do you get thunderstorms in winter now too?
We get them frequently; they used to be rare. Winter without a cold January/February is just wrong.
@ J.S. Limiting carbon emissions just “because” is stupid. Some of the things Al Gore, California, and Kyoto Protocol want to do are drastic measures which would have adverse effects on economies and just our everyday lives. Unless it’s proven that it’s a serious problem why mess up our system and lower our standard of living?
The weather is getting worse and more unpredictable everywhere you look. It’s a process that’s ongoing and undeniable. (Even if it’s not happening at your backyard. Try seeing beyond your nose once in a while.)
That means that the global climate system is destabilizing, or changing into something new altogether.
That’s enough for me to worry, whatever name you may give to ‘that’.
People find what they look for and the minute a scientist believes his own hypothesis, he’s a dead duck as a scientist.
My hypothesis is climate change is not man-made.
The hypothesis runs:
It’s not solar irradiance alone.
It’s not sunspots alone.
It’s not CO2 above 18 C.
it’s not water vapour alone.
It’s not cosmic radiation alone.’
But it may be cosmic and solar radiation modulated by solar magnetic activity subtly changing the cloud albedo of Earth.
Beware the unintended consequences of sequestering plant food during the famine.
Global warming is an extremely natural process that earth goes through. As someone said earlier, the sun gets hotter and cooler at different times, and it affects earth as a direct result. I suppose Al Gore needs a lot of money, otherwise he wouldn’t have taken up the cause.
And environmentalists, quite frankly, can screw themselves. I understand their concerns, but forcing others to live the way you do is simply bullcrap. And I’m not giving up beef products. Maybe cows ruin the environment through their fecal matter and farts. Who cares? As long as beef continues to be delicious, we will always have cows for us to snack upon.
Forgive my generalization (if there are environmentalists who don’t force their lifestyle on others, I apologize), but that’s how I feel.
yes and yes
State of Fear, by Michael Crichton.
Go read it.
Mitchsn: he ran for president in 2000, not 2004.
Humans only contribue 0.28% of all greenhouse gases.
I think it’s pretty dumb how we are spending billions of dollars on trying to stop something natural.
Pollution we should try and reduce, but global warming no.
Has anyone mentioned cow farts yet: http://theloispage.com/misc/bovineindex.html
Farm farts are funny. For anyone who believes this massive cattle flop, Please do us a favor and do your part. Stop Breathing.
i feel it is arrogant to believe that we can keep the climate static and the same, when climate change is the natural state of the earth. we should get off fossil fuels, and move to renewable resources, but that would be more for human benifeit that the benefit of the earth.