It has now been a week since our last your view and because today we find out the results of the election of the Mayor of London, I thought we should have a political question for Your View. Advocates of the Welfare system say that by giving money to the poor – either unemployed, or low income, helps them to survive – but often there is no means to get them out of the rut they are in. So, the question today is whether a welfare system really is a benefit to the poor. If not, what would be the best alternative?
Does a Welfare System Really Help the Poor?
My answer: This is a very complex question, but forced to say yes or no, I would say no. While it helps people who really are in need, I think that a vast majority of people lose any motivation to get themselves out of their situation. In this way I think it does the poor a disservice, and the money earners a disservice as they are funding it. What do you think?
I believe welfare should be used by people who are working and trying their best or used by people who are disabled, but just can’t keep their heads above water. We as a people can’t let somebody who is trying to stay afloat, drown.
Those who abuse welfare should be stripped of it and their children taken away. People who abuse welfare are lazy crooks.
Welfare should exist for those who are struggling to get by on their own, who are doing everything in their power to improve their position, and are willing to end their dependence on welfare once they become financially secure enough.
Welfare should not exist for those who sit on their couch every day, eating Frito’s and watching Springer, the only time they get up is once every month to the mailbox to get their check, then to the bank and cash it. Then back to the couch he/she goes, popping open a Bud on the way.
I’m going to try and keep this short. No it doesn’t. I’m a struggling student in Aus, I’m currently battling centrelink because I’m at the point of not even being able to afford food. They won’t allow me to be classified as independent hence I get less money (yet I’ve been living on my own for over 2years now) and my payments are going to be decreased.
So yeah, the welfare system is messed up, I’m not dole bludger or money grabbing, I just want to be able to afford food.
Read Rothbard’s “A new liberty”. He proposes (and justifies) the abolishment of the welfare state.
No, because like jfrater said, it does not help them get out of their situation, simply because it doesn’t motivate them to do so.
I think it a sad commentary when the folks doing the most and loudest complaining about welfare are Americans.
It is fine and dandy that I complain about abuses of the system; We have a great social safety net. Honestly we have no grinding poverty (Our Native Canadian Communities are the exception – Its sad, but I’ll save it for another view). We have universal health care, no-one has to go to a crappy hospital, or partake in a HMO that refuses care because its expensive. Our slums are not slums – I’ve been to the USA on more than one occasion – you guys have slums. Our slums have windows, trees, parks, in-door plumbing that works, graffiti is removed immediately. Our education system is NOT dependent on the tax base of the immediate area – every school in the province receives proportionate funding (not all school boards use the funding well; some spend too much on administration etc, but still), we have an almost livable minimum wage. You would live poorly, but you would live. We have assisted housing, even in my small community (8000 pop). Semi-detached homes (nice ones) as well as apartments. Even our worst areas (parts of Vancouver) are scummy due to drug abuse and alcoholism (high native population-many reasons not the least of which is institutionalized *****ual abuse, another view topic).
I will continue to ***** about excesses of our system, but I certainly wouldn’t want yours. You guys don’t look after your citizens very well at all.
Only the poorest of the poor benefit from true charity. It is a ball and chain for the rest. Giving to charitable causes is still important and commendable, but I wholeheartedly agree with the axiom: “The best way to help out poor folks is to not be one yourself.”
I’m American, so our system of Welfare/Assistance is somewhat different, and multi-layered, but the underlying problems are similar.
Basic welfare is, in my opinion, a death sentence to the psyche. One becomes a child again, dependent on the parent (the government) for every need; welfare payments, food stamps, medicaid, and, in the case of single mothers, Aid For Dependent Children. There is no compulsion to find work. Welfare does not, even given all of the above mentioned payouts, provide more than a marginal existence, but since so many on this kind of welfare are second, third, or fourth generation on the welfare state, it is the only existence they know.
The welfare state has been expanding for the last several decades, having added free breakfasts and lunches at school for poor children (NOT something with which I take issue), and various and sundry other “bonuses”, such as increased payments for each child born to a welfare mother…you can imagine the results of this policy in a population of an under-educated populace with no grasp of logic.
In my humble opinion, welfare should be tied to education, making it mandatory for recipients to either get a GED or a certificate in a technical skill and, thereafter, a job. Once employed, welfare stops. If the recipient refuses to get an education and a job, welfare should be cut off after six months, with no way to reapply.
This would give those now bound by the welfare mentality a new, and positive, self-image. There are, doubtless, many brilliant minds going to waste in the present system. The system is broken. It must be fixed, or we all will pay the price
My son who is mentally ill has assistance with medications from the state [pa] if he did not he would not be living alone in the real world. I do not see this as ‘charity’,but as a savings to society and also saving people.
Obviously this is a controversial subject and a lot of good points have been made already.
I will add one thing though: as a teacher I see everyday how children relate to a welfare country. These kids know that they don’t have to work hard, study into the night and pass crucial exams because if they drop out of school, get pregnant or break the law, then the state will look after them.
If you think this is unfair, then consider China. They have schools with thousands of pupils with massive class sizes. Yet, educationally speaking, they are some of the most diligent, hard working people on the planet which is a contributing factor to their rise as THE modern super power. And the reason why they are so hard working at such a young age? Because there is no welfare state to look after them if they fail. If they drop out, or don’t get qualifications then they have no access to the scarce number of jobs available. No money means no food to these people who literally starve to death with little help from the government.
I know this is an extreme point of view, but a balanced one I feel. And as a teacher I find it to be a very relevant one as well. I listen to 13 years olds everyday who say they plan to get pregnant so they will get free money, a free car and a free house. Terrifying.
Ah, a touchy subject with me. I worked in a convenience store for 4 1/2 years. I saw customers in there, day in and day out, with their food stamp benefit cards, buying pop, candy, chips and other junk food, while their filthy kids were running around the store grabbing everything their sticky, greedy, little hands could hold, merrily bringing it to the register so that their deadbeat moms and dads could pay for it with government assistance. I HATED, and I still hate knowing that my tax money pays for this. I’m surviving on my own, I don’t need help from the government. I also have decided not to make a career out of having kids. Why is it that these people are still allowed to bring people into this world that they have no ability to provide for?
I do believe that the welfare system can help people who truly need it, but as I saw in a previous comment, most of the people who would benefit most from it, the way it was intended, barely fail to meet the requirements. They’re too poor too be rich, but too rich to be poor, if you catch my drift. That was my family for the longest time. We were making enough money to scrape by, but we still could have used some help to get ahead.
I am just going to stop now and read some other comments, and maybe add some more later. This is a subject I usually have a lot to say about and I don’t want to write a novel here.
My time in the convenience store made me sort of bitter towards lowlifes and scumbags, so if I offend anyone, I’m sorry.
Fortunately, I’m not in charge of public assistance. Having been there, if I were in charge I would require all recipients to work, attend some educational opportunity, or be on medical leave. For work, (in addition to the public sector) I would bring back the Rooseveltian public works jobs the Courts ruled to be illegal. I would also create public non-profit manufacturing jobs (to rebuild our manufacturing base and) to create goods for donation to poor countries as foreign aid, everything from well pumps to soccer balls. Volunteer community work would also be fine. For education, in addition to paying for traditional schools, I would also pay for non-traditional educational opportunities, like you might find in continuing education programs at high schools. Classes in balancing checkbooks, computer programs, crafts and hobbies, communications, anything that would better the mind of the individual. The point is, recipients would have to do something to give back to society.
You know, now that i think about it more, there IS a sort of time-period you are able to get complete welfare, like you don’t work and sit home all the time. i think it might be too long- like 3 years or something. but i also know they stay up on your ass sometimes about getting a job.
but the thing that really annoys me is those people who want to get all massively fat and now they’re trying to claim it as a disability. especially because that way they could just stay home and be all lazy and fat. i know people who do this and then claim all the benifits they can get there greesdy little hands on. i can see if you’re overweight because you have some kind of weird health problem like poly cystic whatever or some kind of hormone problem, but what about all those people who eat like ***** and don’t excersize? giving them a handicapped parking spot is like the ultimate insult to people who are actually disabled and can’t walk, as opposed to people who are just too fat and lazy to walk those extra couple spots to the doors of the building.
and then to PAY them, give them an incentive to be even lazier because they’re disabled?
un-be-freaking-lievable.
I know that welfare type systems do help the people. I am unfortunately having to use Medicaid. I am pregnant and had complications making it so I cannot work. I cannot pay for insurance to continue to see my doctor, and if I couldn’t do that, I would likely have lost my baby. I moved in with my parents and am only using the Medicaid until I’m able to go back to work. So yes, I think that welfare is useful, but it really needs to be looked at. There are people who abuse it, yes, but really, all in all it’s a good sytstem. Every time I’ve talked to people who’ve used government assistance, if you don’t work, they make you go to a career center and get a job or you lose your benefits. So I think the way those systems are set up is a very good idea, being as it makes the people not so dependant on the government to take care of their responsibilites and it makes the recipient responsible for their own way. By working, they’re also contributing tax dollars towards the very system they’re utilizing. Accountability is key.
boo fu**in hoo get off your ass and out of my pocket
There is no doubt in my mind, with the way the world is headed = high prices on everything – everyone will be on welfare. The good old US of A will become a “third world” country.
unless it provides job training and placement? emphatic no.
in ref. to 75. : Ahh… The sweet sounds of the “abused middle class”. Is that sub-prime loan getting to you yet?
The misunderstanding of what constitutes “welfare” saddens me. Nick mentioned his son, who is mentally challenged and who receives assistance in order to live an independent life. That is not welfare.
Traci speaks of a difficult pregnancy which forced her to quit work, move in with her parents, and accept Medicaid. That is not welfare.
We must not confuse welfare with medical or moral requirements. If we turn our backs on those in true need, and lump them in the same pile with the mis-users of welfare, we are in moral danger.
There has to be a better screening process. There has to be a time limit for those able bodied and able minded. There has to be a mandatory education for those on welfare, teaching technical or other socially required skills so that, at the end of 6 to 9 months, they are employable, and welfare ends.
For those who do not, and can not, meet the able body, able mind requirement, the stigma of the term welfare must be changed. It must offer the dignity to which every person of personal virtue is entitled.
Yes, welfare really helps the poor. If you DON’T have money to buy food or pay for your heat, water, etc. and then you DO have money after you receive welfare, then it sure looks like help.
Why THIS question though, when most government welfare programs really serve to benefit business and corporate entities at the expense of taxpayers.
For those who decry government taking their money through taxes for something they don’t agree to pay for, well, that’s an interesting idea. Do you think the U.S. govt. is spending more on welfare cheaters and cheese giveaways or on the Iraq war? Because I would guess that at LEAST 65% of Americans at this point would NOT want to fund anything to do with Iraq other than the speedy removal of our troops. Why do we have to pay for it anyway?
I think the welfare system has some plusses, but also many minuses.
I’m on disability (no thanks to the *bleep* who thought bashing a little girls head into cement was a good way to keep her from telling that he decided to violate her body).
I’m grateful for the money and medical coverage I get…but am just whizzed off that they make it next to impossible to try and make your life better.
For example, if I want to try and work, the Social Security Administration lets me *gross* $65 a month before they start taking away half of every dollar I make. (I get about $600 a month from the government.)I can deal with that. But, then my rent gets jacked up and 30% of my gross income is added to it. So, if I earn $100 gross in a month, by the time taxes are removed, the rent is increased, and the SSA takes $17 out of it, I basically PAY to work.
Also, I have to be on meds to be able to work…but once I earn around $200 gross a month, my medical assistance requires a minimum $100 premium a month, and all my copays triple.
Basically, they take away any incentive for me to work, because I basically get penalized for doing so. (I still work though, although its only about 10 hours a week, on top of that, I make and sell jewelry and take in sewing jobs because frankly, I need the mental health benefits of being at least a partial contributer to society.)
I think it’s good there is help for those who need it, but they need to revamp it to help people not become trapped on it.
After reading all of the posts, I had 2 more thoughts to add.
One…Yes, people do abuse the system at times. However, some of the people accused of abusing the system may truly need it. If someone who didn’t know me looked at me, they would think I was a leech- after all, my disability isn’t a visible one; my body looks able, and I have a super high IQ. But none the less the disability is there, brain damage doesn’t always show itself in highly visible ways.
Two…the ‘luxuries’ issue. I think it depends on what one would consider luxuries. For me, a luxury is using Aussie Redmond shampoo instead of generic- so I might spend $3 instead of $1.50 every two months on shampoo. To me, the splurge on the shampoo is important because I wont go to a barber/hairdresser to have my hair cut. Instead, I let it grow out until it’s long enough to cut off and donate to Locks for Love- and the Aussie shampoo keeps my hair in good condition whereas the generic stuff ruins it.
Also, I have had cashiers at the grocery store give me flak because of what they consider ‘luxury’ foods I buy. What they don’t realize or know is I buy rice based ramen noodles at close to $1 a pack instead of the wheat-based ramens (3 packs for $1)or organic non-wheat based whole grain bread instead of the cheap white stuff because I have celiac disease. To me, what they consider luxury is a needed for me (unless I want to eat a bunch of wheat based stuff, destroy my insides and starve to death).
I guess what I am saying here is that one cannot always look from the outside and pass judgement on people as being abusive of the system, as not every disease or problem is one you can see just by looking.
I absolutely agree with you, VeeBabe. I had to deal with a year or so of generic everything and a lot of leftovers/cassaroles and what my family calls “Gazinta” (As in.. everything gazinta the pot.) So if luxuries are some things you need, or along those lines, then absolutely. And for those kinds of products, they don’t have a bloody right to say a thing. I’ve seen men drop $800 bucks at an adult store at 3am, so there are obviously worse things to spend money on. (Bloody oil workers. Make way too much money)
What I had a problem with, was our lazyass tenant. The first thing he did when he moved in was buy a PSP. He had a DVD player, probably $300 worth of DVDs (like.. nine series of Stargate.), and still went on welfare. People like him make me sick. (And now we have to hunt down the *****er because he owes us over $1000. Yay!)
I can only speak from an American perspective, but I can speak as someone who has had personal brushes with the system.
When I was 19 years old I worked full time, 40-60 hours a week. I had a nice savings account, had paid off my first two years of college loans and was getting ready to go back to school in the spring. I had an automobile accident in October that left me with shattered legs, arms and a few other traumatic injuries. At the time I was employed as a temporary worker, although I’d been with the company nearly a year. I had no health insurance. After 16 hours of surgery my savings account wasn’t only wiped out, I still owed enough to buy a decent house. (370k+)
I applied for government insurance, hoping for some help with all of the bills that were piling up. I was denied for months until we’d managed to jump through a series of pretty insane hoops for them.
I lived for years with no way to work as I recovered from all of those injuries. During that time I looked to the system for help. The workers treated me as though I were the lowest piece of sub-humanity in existence. What benefits they would give me access to were never enough to get some sort of stability, just enough to barely scrape by, from disconnection notice to disconnection notice. I hated every second I was in recovery because it was a constant scramble to find a way to take money from one bill to cover another. As someone else said, I wasn’t allowed to work. When I tried doing child care in my home as a last ditch income source they cut my benefits to the point that I would have had to watch 10 children to make up for the benefit loss and required payments for health care.
I can honestly say that without a welfare system of some sort, even one as flawed as ours, I have no idea at all where I would be now. They need more workers to investigate the people applying because I’ve known many people in my own life time who have abused the system. Those people always managed to make out just fine. It’s only when you’re honest that you can’t, so the system encourages abuse.
Also, when enough people look at you as though you are garbage, you start to believe it. I had held steady employment from the time I was 15 until the date of my accident and still, after a year of dealing with the system, no matter how legitimate my claim, I still felt like I was lazy, stupid and worthless. Perhaps that’s something that should be looked into, too, because it’s systemic.
As someone who was orphaned at a young age, most definitely. The American social security system is hugely unfair toward those looking for disability benefits, but the orphans and widows benefits systems work fairly well. My childhood was modest, few toys, no vacations, plain foods, but still so much better than the alternatives.
Probably one of the best your views or lists i’ve read in a long time.
From about 15 both my parents got unemployment benefits. Prior to that my father was in the public service in Canberra. I was educated on youth allowance all the way to honours level. The uni debt will be paid off in due time. So you could say i’ve been reared by the government in one form or another up to the age of maybe 23.
My parents never abused the system. They never drank or wasted any money on drugs. They set a good example. The money we got was spent efficiently and every dollar was accounted for.
If you are on benefits, you don’t deserve the same luxuries that paid people get. There has to be something for you to aim for.
The welfare system helps the poor, the pregnant, and the disabled. The system here in australia is not a trap yet. It is, however, a trap for the stupid, the lazy, and the dull.
I’ve worked really hard jobs, been on benefits, had easy jobs, etc. What we have to be concerned about is the value of the money earned.
If you’ve mopped a floor for an hour even in a *****ty job, you know you’ll get a certain amount of money, and then the value of that money has a lot more value than the same amount garnered through any benefit. You will be wiser with that money. That’s what people on long term benefits are missing out on.
Some of these stories are heartbreaking. It’s difficult to hear of people’s misfortune and struggle just to make it through the day. It makes me appreciate my somewhat easy life in comparison. The only frame of reference I have was being unemployed for a few months when I was just starting out and my recent divorce where I basically lost everything monetarily speaking. Those experiences made me a better person, more determined and made me a little more appreciative of having a decent job that didn’t make me rich, but afforded me a little breathing room at the end of the month.
Unless you’re in the Warren Buffet category of the tax bracket, everyone needs a little assistance from time to time, some more so than others. I’d like to think the best about most people when it comes to this stuff because some folks have been dealt some absolutely brutal cards. I mean really, what do I know about being single, 3 kids and another one on the way, or disabled because of some accident and not having the ability to pay the bills? It’s true I went through some hard times after my divorce, but I never had to choose between paying the bills or eating.
So I guess I’m on the fence here. I don’t like the unending cycle some families experience life by living off of the government I hear about from time to time, I don’t like able bodied people leaching off the federal teat, but we have some responsibility to people less fortunate than ourselves. I’d like to think that religious institutions are doing their part when I know they’re more concerned about building the next mega-church.
It’s up to us who have it better in life to do the responsible thing to help the needy, and the government is one way to do it, but like most other things, they tend to screw it up beyond reason. And as I’ve read in some of your posts, make it demeaning and seemingly impossible to enjoy life. It’s sad really.
Mara, that would whizz me off for sure, having been stiffed by a tenant who probably could have paid.
I unfortunately have seen people who abuse the system, who justify wasting their money they recieve on ‘fun’…I’ve seen them justify their foolishness with money by blaming their illnesses or whatever. (I had a former friend on disability who was whining about not having food in the house, but yet only a few days before, she had spent close to $400 on a Nintendo DS for her kid!)
I’ve probably made a few enemies in my time, because I have turned in people who were committing fraud- but only when I knew for sure they were. It makes me angry when people do things like that, because it robs not only taxpayers but the people who really need it.
No way, Jose. I personally know people who aim to make only JUST ENOUGH money in order to have welfare and a second income. Then there are the people who don’t work simply because they know they’re taken care of, etc.
wow this is a sticky one…i am a 35 yr old mother of 3 i have been in the public assistance offices several times in my life. althought i have never drawn “welfare” i have always worked, but i did use the system when i needed it. in Tennessee we have a state insc. called “tn-care” and i have been on and off of that several times. the one great thing about it is that kids under the age of 18 are covered regardless. but i digress, i have been on foodstamps several times over the years. but as more experience led to better jobs luckily i am government assist free. but i DO NOT regret the times i had to use the system. as i said i have never been without a job (even if it was low pay) i pay my taxes and i firmly believe that i diserved some of that money back when i needed it. one other good thing about tennessee the FINALLY put a cap on the number of kids you can claim for your welfare checks. it used to be a percentace per child but the capped it to now you can only get assistance for 4 kids. after that it is called “excessive breeding” i mean after all if you are on government assistance why in the h*ll would you need to try to feed that many kids? get some birthcontrol.
that being said….i dont believe people should abuse the system but i personally am glad it was there for me when i needed it.
I think it does help. My husband works overtime every week and I babysit in my home (cannot work outside the home, because I have a disability). At the moment we only receive medical assistance and ebt (food stamps) from the state. I am terrified because in about two months we will be getting our ebt cut off. Hopefully we will still get something, but even if we do it will most likely only be about $30 a month. Even with the assistance we are getting at the moment, we still cannot afford to buy clothes (BIG problem with a quickly growing toddler) or shoes, or shampoo, or toothpaste, or trashbags or diapers. We struggle to pay rent on time every month. And we are NOT lazy by any means! We just have a really crappy economy. My husband makes ten dollars an hour and I make $60 a week. People have asked why my husband doesn’t look for a better job. That is the best job he can get in this area. If it wasn’t for food pantries, the state assistance program, and our church we would STILL be homeless.
If welfare helped the poor, then there would be no poor. Welfare can certainly aid the poor though, but aid is a temporary solution to an ongoing problem. Welfare should be a process in which those living in poverty are helped to subsist on their own eventually but the welfare system’s ability to help is hampered by minimum wage pay. When every country can figure out a minimum wage that their people can actually live on, then, and only then, can we really ask the question whether welfare helps the poor.
we need a graduated wellfare system. people are afraid to make too much money because once welfare cuts off, they still aren’t making enough to support themselves. We have a system that doesn’t encourage change.
Welfare is definitely needed in some cases. I have had many friends who were/are on welfare and needed it to subsist.
In high school, my 14-year-old friend’s mother took off and left her in an apartment paid for by welfare (all but about $50 a month) with a Bridge card (Michigan’s equivalent of food stamps). So she had somewhere to live and something to eat. Where would she have been without welfare?
I do, however, know some people who abuse it and spend all their earned money on drugs and such and then live off the government when it comes to housing, food, etc.
My theory is: if you have enough leftover money to buy a bag of weed, you should be able to buy a bag of groceries.
Oops…sorry for the double post up there… my browser locked up (curses to Microsoft some days) and I thought I’d missed the ‘click’ to submit the first one.
I think it’s important to separate out the different forms of welfare, because some programs are very worthwhile in my opinion, others are rife for abuse.
I know at least three people that wouldn’t be able to live without social security disability benefits, while it’s a form of welfare, I think society has a basic obligation to people that through bad luck of genetics or accidents or disease can’t support themselves fully.
Medicaid I also fully support because I’ve seen the benefits firsthand: psychiatric medication for people that otherwise WOULD be unsuitable for employment, basic medical care for children, ect.
On the other hand, how deep does society’s obligation go? On one hand we have people that try to be productive citizens, and through whatever reason can’t (see SSI above), but on the other hand the money for these programs comes from other people, people who are gainfully employed. Welfare, excepting medical aid and disability benefits strikes me as inherently unfair, after all, to quote “is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?”
To answer the question directly, I think some poor are helped. I think many more are harmed, especially when you count the fact that all throughout the US and europe massive welfare systems burden the economy to the point where prices of basic goods rise and corporations move elsewhere to avoid the tax burden. the Entitlement State in the US consumes 60%+ of the budget, and european states are worse. No one can argue that taxation upwinds of 50% helps anyone at all.
This question has one simple answer – yes, a welfare system helps the poor. The real question – Does a welfare system help the country?
You are allowed 9 months on welfare/cash aid. In california, its $162 for food stamps and $221 in cash. I am on it right now; I wasn’t able to find a job soon enough so I applied. I waited till I was dead broke too since I always felt someone else needed it more than me (as in someone with kids). But I sucked in my pride and applied. Ok, it takes 2 day’s to qualify and then you have to take classes to continue to receive the money. The classes help you rewrite you resume, build up your self esteem so you keep yourself motivated to continue searching for a job, show you how to give a professional interview and how to network. Many people in my class were laid off due to the current status of the economy; they had wonderful jobs in construction, warehousing, and utility works (as electricians, plumbers etc.) But the economy has forced many companies to cut back since many customers are cutting back. Gas prices are ridiculous, the price of food is ridiculous ($4.00 for a gallon of milk? wow!), people are trying to save their homes, etc. I recently returned my car (repossession) due to lack of funds for the monthly payments. I hate riding the bus but it’s what I’m dealing with right now. Welfare isn’t bad; some of the people on welfare are bad. They are lazy, have their priorities mixed up and will never get off their ass to better their life. I have decided to be on welfare for 4 months; that’s it. I have a job that cut’s hours every other week but I’m still working. My parents help take care of me and to make life easier, I’ll be moving back in with my mother in a few months. (which I think a lot of americans are living under one roof in order to save money). As for the question “does a welfare system help the country?” I would have to say that depends on what the country is going through. When Bill Clinton was president, the country had money, for ourselves and to give. So we were happy. Now, we are suffering due to the greediness of our government and we are coping the best way we know how: Asking for some of our tax money back. Great topic by the way.
Sheree makes some excellent points.
Congratulations on making a coherent, intelligent assessment from the inside out. Congratulations, too, on giving yourself a time limit.
I am on Disability, and that will never change no matter how much I want it to. The whole system is there as a safety net, designed to rescue those in short term trouble, in the case of Welfare, and for those who have a condition which makes working impossible, as in the case of Disability.
For the truly needy, for the honest, the motivated, the innocent, it’s a life saver.
Too bad there are those who rape the system, making it more difficult, and more of a stigma, for those whose need is real
As you said this is a very complicated issue
I am currently on disability and in the welfare system.
SSDI, Medicaid and Medicare, among others.
I think one difference in someone who comes off of a life of working for a living wants to get out of the system quicker then someone who have known it their whole life.
I am getting almost half as much money as I did when working, the only thing that I really need that I didn’t have at this scale is the medical.
There needs to be an easier way and less red tape to get it to the people who need it, and a better way to filter out those people who are just using the system.
I’ve noticed that a lot of you have brought up costs related to health care or better yet assistance ($) programs for health care. I find it so unusual to hear people talking about programs like this because health care is universal where I’m from. But that’s not to say our system doesn’t have any problems.
The best way to help society is universal health care. Accessable to all in every way; including financially. Health care is expensive, to individuals and society. In the medical model they talk about the determinants of health. The number one determinant is Income and Social Stauts followed by social support networks, education, employment/working conditions,social/physical enviroments, personal health practices, HEALTHY CHILD DEVELOPMENT (can’t stress this one enough,) and others like genetics, health services, gender and culture.
Now I may be bias because I’m in the health care field but I feel that everything is intertwined with your health. Physical to mental; mental to spiritual. It’s my personal belief that if people feel they are being taken care of, and “looked out for” so to say, you get more out of them.
Back to the main focus. There are people who truly and honestly need welfare, social assistance, EI or whatever it’s called where you live, and people who don’t need it. I feel badly for those who really do need & don’t abuse it for they are open to judgment by others who do not know their situation. I feel even worse for those who don’t; what a waste of a mind.
There is a saying by LAO TZEU quote “IF YOU GIVE A FISH TO A
HUNGRY PERSON ,HE’S GONA EAT ONE DAY .
IF YOU TEACH A PERSON HOW TO FISH,HE’S GONA FEED HIMSELF
EVERY DAY.”unquote . Actually i think ignorance is the cause
of all misery and knowledge is definitively POWER no doubts!!
SyLvAiN****
sylvain:
You’ve butchered the actual quote, but managed to retain the meaning.
Also, your conclusion, re: so much of human misery, is spot-on; Ignorance is the major cause. Laziness makes a contribution in some, though few, cases. I give ignorance the edge in almost all human misery.
Thanks, sylvain, for the short, but accurate answer.
Author: sylvain
Comment:
There is a saying by LAO TZEU quote “IF YOU GIVE A FISH TO A
HUNGRY PERSON ,HE’S GONA EAT ONE DAY .
IF YOU TEACH A PERSON HOW TO FISH,HE’S GONA FEED HIMSELF
EVERY DAY.”unquote . Actually i think ignorance is the cause
of all misery and knowledge is definitively POWER no doubts!!
A have been thinking and …uummm i think it’s an interesting
issue and personally i think that people in need should be
helped ,but there should be a follow up for 1 years ,
because i think if someone is fragile or depressed it’s
going to help for a few months but it’s easy to fall in a
cycle and totally be demotivated and loose self estem…
and be dependent of easy living every one could easily fall
into that patern and loose complete interest in working
and become lazy .
I think that women with kids and no work sould definitively have financial support ,people with psychiatric
problems or people with diagnostic that can not work should
get financial support .I just think they should have a follow
up with governemental agents working in the progress of
how everything is going in repports , (WITHOUT ARRASMENT) you
surely do not want to bring more problem to a person with
low self estem , pretention and condescandent behaviors in
economical hierarchy is very bad and could bring a vicious
cycle in keeping people that have to get help in staying
in that cycle and bring more problems then help…if agents
would be formed properly with public relation and understanding what the situation is and not putting presure
but just write they’re report and maybe classifie some case
and aproche with subtle ,this maybe would be good..
EVERY BODY IS HUMAN ,YOU,ME AND THE WHOLE WORLD,EVERYONE
SHOULD BE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND UNDERSTANDING FOR PROGRESS
LOVE AND COMPASSION****
SyLvAiN.
I don’t think anyone here knows what hapens in India? There many welfare systems or so called systems in India and a few help from abroad from Christian Missionaries… honestly most of them never get that help… Close to 60% families in India suffer with less or no proper food n income as prices r so high tht they don’t get to buy much food. I am stayin in India from 7 years now… I see ppl stayin in street sides with houses build with rags… They don’t have proper clothes to wear and govt officials are damn rich n so r celebrities who talk abt poor ppl and bt A&**#*## no one really comes forward to help them… I wish there is a proper welfare system thru out the world esp to the African & a few Asian countries like India… n world is free from corruption… Hope we have a whole new world free from all bad things around us!!!
This really depends on the system, doesn’t it?
As an example, in Croatia, the equivalent of your welfare does nearly nothing. Imagine you have to live for a whole month with , with expiry date way in the past. Then you’d see those folks on the telly bragging about how much they are helping the poor. Fun, eh?
Erm…my post was cut in a weird way..? Is this HTML tag stripping? Because there was no HTML, just less-than and greater-than signs.. :-/
I can tell you that the welfare system irritates me. As a low income employee, single mother and a full time student, I can tell you what people who do not have much need and I can tell you what I see people do with their welfare money in my neighborhood. First let me start by saying that I do not receive any child support or state aid in any form (other than student loans). I do it myself, even though it is tough. I have no parents or husband, no aid at all with expenses. I pay rent, groceries, clothing and everything on my own. From doing this, I can see where I would need help. I don’t think the government should give checks directly to the welfare recipients. I think that the money you qualify for should go directly to fund the things like rent, groceries and clothing. The payments would go directly to the landlord, utility company, child caregiver, foodstamp card and retail store vouchers. That way the money could no longer be abused, it would go toward lowering expenses and the people could work for their spending money. I would love to get help to bring down my rent expense. That would allow me to spend more money on utilities and things we need. Unfortunately, I just can’t bring myself to apply for help because I have too much self respect. I see welfare recipients in my neighborhood stay home all day, smoke cigarettes, buy scratch tickets and alcohol and have big screen tv’s and such. I have a bit of animosity when I think of my hard work and sacrifices going to fuel this. There has to be a better way.
Juile… I really must admire for you courage… God Bless ya!
I don’t have anyone actually but I still am earning enough to support my self and a family that’s depending on me
Welll any clues wat’s this SO CALLED Welfare societies doing for Earth quake, Floods and tornado affected cities???
I must tell half or more than that would go to their pockets…
Sorry folks but I didn’t read all the responses but here goes:-
A welfare state is essential – what is the alternative? In the UK it was the workhouse, in the US – the poor-house. Of course abuse of the system is wrong but seeing my peers starve or be reduced to begging or ***** is a bit much. Make them work – ok, encourage self worth – fabulous, leave them in the ghetto and feel smug about ourselves — that isn’t gonna work.
Welfare does not help in all casses and it is abused way too often. I will say this now and i am proud of it I am a conservative, I hate socialism, and i would rather you call me a moderate libertarian. Now i am not a crazy libertarian who’s like yea anarchy drugs and hookers, i am reasonable, and welfare when used correctly can be a good thing, but too many people are beeing hurt because welfare is keeping them from achieving what they could be.
Idon’t want to get off on a rant here, but I will say the following; Yes, we need a functional system where people can meet the basic necessities of life and (if possible) acquire the skills to get off the system. However the current system (both in Canada and, from what I’ve read, the US) needs fixed badly. Secondly, I forget who said it, but the way so much of society looks down its’ nose at people who do need help really is a serous problem. Nothing takes the wind out of your sails faster than being called a leech, a bum, lazy, yadda.
Third and finally – I hope Mollly (comment #52) NEVER needs help from anyone. It’s attitudes like hers – that is uninformed and ignorant – that give the working poor night terrors that’d make Stephen King poop himself.
I think it helps everyone…. as long as they are not a single,custodial,white,male.
I have been completely stiffed by the welfare system. Told from the beginning there was no more section 8, was denied going to school unless it was for nursing or secretarial, denied fuel assistance…. Basically, I was given just the bare essentials, which is not even 1/4 of what any and every hispanic/latino woman is given.
I am disgusted, frustrated, and extremely angy. I say “the same for all…. or nothing for all”
We live in a rural area with no access to public transportation, not enough money to fix my vehicle, etc. and we were recently dropped off welfare after the 2 year mark even though the system did absolutely nothing to actually try to assist to get us back on our feet??!! Basically saying to heck with my kids…. I know of latino women to this day with grown children out of the house who are still receiving section 8, free food, free money, free heating money, free utilities, etc., etc.
Also consider I attended the career center in Lowell MA where they let all the girls go at noon “everyday” and mark them as present so they do not lose their benfits…. and 1/2 those girls don’t even speak English??!!
We are doing far worse today than the day I got us on welfare… and FYI… all these “Government Grant” ads you see on pages like this??? Are only obtainable by minorities and women… Trust me I know because I tried.
I was told by the welfare system that I make “Quite good money” when I showed them 3 pay-stubs for $200.00 each as a sub-contracting carpet installer, before my self-employment tax was taken out and we were dropped from cash assistance?! As a single Dad, I can only work around my children’s schedules (meaning being sick, early release days and no school days) If I was not self employed, I would be fired from a new job about every month (It is why I was fired from my last job once I got custody of my kids from their drug abusing mom)
The fact is, the wlefare system is specifically designed to assist females (and all the better if that female is hispanic or latino) Don’t be fooled, they are not miserable, they are thrilled…. They get “everything” for free and have absolutely no accountability or responsibility
I even suggested the reinstatement of the welfare insepectors, and I would gladly take a job within that title, and go around and bag all the girls living in section 8 housing with boyfriend after boyfriend living with them, etc. as well as women who’s children are all grown and out of the house who are still collecting everything…. but noone is even interested in bringing back the inspectors, why?? Because there would be millions of these people instantly banned from the system within the first few months, and there would be a riot.
More than half of these girls know the system inside and out (coming from a long line of career welfare recipients) and cheat the system every single day, committing fruad, and they are getting, what every hard-working tax-paying family is struggling to keep
free money
free food
free housing (yes, even single family houses and new condos)
free utilities
free healthcare
free childcare
free heating fuel
free shooling (adult education)
at one time free vehicles with “everything paid” through the Good News garage….
And the list goes on and on and on. And they know their way around the rules, and there are even people who work for welfare who help them cheat the system.
I am just now beginning to open everyone’s eyes to all which goes on within the welfare system because my children and I have been completely dupped and I have undeniable evidence to back my words up…. my blog will be available to the public very soon, and I will be in the papers, and on a couple talk radio shows before years end of 2008
I think the taxpayers should have the choice of seeing tax money going into either the welfare system, or the children’s hospitals around the nation…. welfare would shrivel up and die
without getting into a comment-list agrument with any of you yahoos, I’d like to say absolutely not.
there is no place in today’s flexible and diverse economic arenas for people to be sitting at home, smoking their crack and claiming they cannot get a job. its just incredibly unfortunate that the people who are actively pursuing opportunities and advancing their careers are the ones complacent with the current democracies’ leftist policies and actually footing the welfare bills.
****
#114. GT numbercruncher – July 7th, 2008
without getting into a comment-list agrument with any of you yahoos…
****
And a cheery hello to you, too.
So glad to see a new poster up and running on the right foot (metaphorically speaking).
I agree with you that it takes away their motivation. When people get welfare, sometimes they start to think that they can live a happy life without ever getting a job. however, there is a simple solution to this. Instead of welfare, the government should provide communal houses for the poor, where they can sleep and eat. However, the people staying there would only be given absolute necessities (food, water, clothes). They would not get any luxuries, such as T.V., computers, etc. They would just get enough to keep them alive. This is a good system because it keeps them alive and healthy, but it still gives them motivation to go out and get a better life for themselves. If they want T.V. and other luxuries of the working people, they have to go out and get jobs themselves.
So, in conclusion, I would say that welfare the way it is doesn’t really befefit the poor in the long run, but the welfare system can easily be reformed so that it helps the poor get back on their feet and get better lives.
Mike: How very Ghetto. Did you learn nothing of the Jewish persecution/isolation during WWII in history class?
Yes, it does. I’ve been using welfare lately. I work 40+ hours a week. I have a bachelors degree and cannot find a job that pays a living wage. I live with my mother and STILL cannot afford my basic living bills such as rent, car insurance, etc. Things are tough right now and there are a lot of people that wouldn’t get by without welfare. Do people abuse the system? Absolutely. But people that work hard for a living and still can’t get by shouldn’t be punished because of lazy jerks.
I think that far too many people abuse capital in far greater and more devastating ways than welfare.
I think it needs to be overhauled but yes a welfare system can help the poor.
The big issue it seems is that it doesn’t seem help get people off of it. I think they need to help educate some of these people or get them some kind of skill so that they can get off of welfare.
But in no way even with the current system we should get rid of it. You are always going to have people who are going to abuse the system. Even with reform someone will find a way to exploit it. As another poster said don’t punish the ones who truly need it in order to stop that.
I knew a woman who was on welfare why she went to school full time so she can support her and her child. She didn’t dress in expensive clothing, always saw her in jeans and t-shirts. She did not own a car, she took the bus everywhere. She was truly using the welfare system to help her get her degree but at the same time be able to feed and take care of her child. if it wasn’t for welfare she would be unable to do that and better her life for her and her child.