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I have sung in classical choirs for more than 25 years. Many of the choirs I have sung in have specialised in “early music”. (The cut-off date for this varies, but I have chosen 1750.) There are many great choral works which I would like to share with you.
I have limited myself to works from western European Christianity, which is where my experience is. I have limited myself to one work per composer. With some tweaking at either end, the list is in chronological order. The information is as brief as I could make it and still be comprehensible, but I hope I have given you enough information to understand the composer and the work.
There is necessarily a large amount of Christian church history, theology and imagery here. If you are not into that, please sit back and enjoy the music. This selection is personal and subjective, but I believe that any list of great works from this era would include many of these works. These are “great works”, not “the greatest works”.
The composer of this music is unknown. The music is either based on, or was the source for, a devotional hymn “Orbis factor, rex aeternae eleison” (“Creator of the world, eternal king, have mercy”). The clip intersperses the song and the liturgical text.
Central to the worship of the Christian Church (then and now) is the Mass, a memorial of the last meal shared by Jesus and his disciples. Typically, five texts are set to special music. The first is the penitential “Kyrie eleison” (“Lord, have mercy), which is in Greek, compared to the Latin used for the other texts.
The performance in the clip is by Ensemble Organum, a group founded in 1982 by Marcel Pérès and based in France. This group specialises in chants that were in use before Gregorian chant (the variety of chant most widely used in the Western Church) developed, or that survived in alongside it.
Hildegard was a Geman abbess, polymath and composer. She is the first composer whose biographical details are known. She lived in convents from an early age, and became probably the most accomplished woman of her time. Founding and administering convents, writing theological, botanical, and medicinal texts, letters (to popes, emperors and saints), liturgical songs, poems and the first surviving morality play. Much of her music was written for religious ceremonial performance by the nuns of her convents. Her music is described as monophonic; that is, consisting of exactly one melodic line, designed for limited instrumental accompaniment and characterised by soaring soprano vocalisations.
Very little about Pérotin is known. He was probably French and active at the Cathedral of Notre Dame, Paris. He pioneered the styles of organum triplum and organum quadruplum (three and four-part polyphony). This work is in three-part polyphony. A prominent feature of his compositional style was to take a simple, well-known melody and stretch it out in time, so that each syllable was tens or even hundreds of seconds long, and then use each note of the melody (the tenor, Latin for “holder”, or cantus firmus, Latin for “firm song”) as the basis for rhythmically complex, interweaving lines above it. The result was that one or more vocal parts sang free, quickly moving lines (”discants”) over the chant below.
I can find no information about the words. I assume that is was sung immediately before the gospel reading during the Mass, and that the words have something to do with the birth of Jesus.
The performance is by the Hilliard Ensemble directed by Paull Hillier, the members of which appear in the clip.
Machaut was a French poet and composer. He held church and royal/noble court appointments in Flanders and France. His poetry was admired and imitated by Geoffrey Chaucer, among others. He composed in a wide range of styles and forms and his output was enormous. His most important work is the Messe de Nostre Dame, the earliest known complete setting of the Mass by a single composer. Unusually for a composer of church music of his times, the vast majority of his works are secular, almost always dealing with courtly love.
The words, which are another major text of Mass, begin “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God of Hosts”.
The performance in the clip is by the Ensemble Gilles Binchois.
Dufay was a Franco-Flemish priest, music theorist and composer. He travelled widely and held a number of church and royal/noble court appointments in Flanders, France and Italy. He was among the most influential composers of the 15th century, and his music was copied, distributed and sung everywhere that polyphony had taken root. Almost all composers of the succeeding generations absorbed some elements of his style. The wide distribution of his music is all the more impressive considering that he died several decades before the availability of music printing. He wrote in most of the common forms of the day.
The words are from a hymn of devotion to Mary and begin “Hail, star of the sea”.
Ockeghem was a Franco-Flemish singer, choirmaster, teacher and composer. He held a number of church and noble/royal court positions (not only musical but also administrative/diplomatic) in Flanders and France. His most important work is his Missa pro Defunctis which is the earliest surviving polyphonic Requiem mass. Being a renowned bass singer himself, his use of wide-ranging and rhythmically active bass lines sets him apart from many of the other composers of his time.
The words are “Thanks be to God”, said at the very end of the Mass, but not often set to music. This setting has 36 individual lines of music, divided into 4 choirs of 9 lines each. This is astonishingly complex music for the time.
The performance is by the Huelgas Ensemble directed by Paul van Nevel.
Josquin was a Franco-Flemish composer. Writers as diverse as Baldassare Castiglione and Martin Luther wrote about his reputation and fame. The newly-developed technology of printing made wide dissemination of his music possible. Despite his colossal reputation, we know very little about his life. He wrote in all the significant vocal forms of his time. He liked to solve compositional problems in different ways in different compositions. Sometimes he wrote in an austere style devoid of ornamentation, and at other times he wrote music requiring considerable virtuosity. He travelled widely and held various church and royal/noble court appointments.
This work does not set the biblical “Ave Maria” text, but rather a devotional poem to Mary.
Taverner was an English organist and composer, and is widely regarded as the most important English composer of the pre-reformation era. He was appointed by Cardinal Wolsey as the first organist and master of the choristers at Cardinal College, Oxford (later renamed Christ Church). He was reprimanded for (probably minor) involvement with Lutherans, but escaped punishment for being “but a musician”. Wolsey later fell from favour and Taverner left the college. His most important works are the Western Wynd Mass, based on a popular song by that name, and the Missa Gloria tibi Trinitas, based on a plainchant. The 20th century composer Sir John Tavener is a direct descendant.
The words, from the Mass, are “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God of Hosts”, which is the first part of the text used in item 4.
Tallis was an English organist and composer. His life spanned the English reformation. He held various church music positions, and was a Gentleman of the Chapel Royal under Henry VIII, Edward VI, Mary and Elizabeth I. Throughout his service to successive monarchs, Tallis avoided the religious controversies that raged around him. His best known works are the nine psalm chant tunes for four voices he wrote for Archbishop Parker’s Psalter in 1567, his settings of the Lamentations of Jeremiah the Prophet and Spem in alium written for eight five-voice choirs, possibly for Elizabeth’s 40th birthday in 1573. In 1575 Elizabeth Tallis and his younger contemporary William Byrd a patent to print and publish music, which was one of the first arrangements of that type in the country.
The text is a paraphrase of Acts 2 and begins “The apostles began to speak in other tongues (or languages)”. Tallis’s music is interspersed with plainchant, and the plainchant is also hidden deep within the polyphonic sections.
Three for the price of one. The best clip of this work has another, unrelated, piece before it. Loquebantur starts at 2.29. At 6.05 is Tallis’s best-known shorter work (in English) “If ye love me”. The performers are the Tallis Scholars directed by Peter Philips.
Palestrina was an Italian composer. His work can be seen as a summation of Renaissance polyphony. He held a number of church positions in and around Rome. He wrote sacred music almost exclusively. His masses and motets are in the repertoire of every choir of this type.
The Missa Papae Marcelli (Mass for Pope Marcellus) was supposedly written to persuade the Council of Trent that a ban on polyphonic treatment of text in sacred music was unnecessary. More recent scholarship has shown that this mass was composed before the cardinals convened to discuss the ban (possibly as much as ten years before). It is probable, however, that Palestrina was quite conscious of the needs of intelligible text in conformity with the doctrine of the Counter-Reformation, and wrote his works towards this end from the 1560s until the end of his life.
The words make up the last major text of the Mass, and begin “Lamb of God, that takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us”.
Parsons was an English composer, about whom little is known. He was an assistant to the Master of the Children Choristers of the Chapel Royal, then a Gentleman of the chapel. He composed a small number of sacred and secular vocal compositions, of which this is by far the most well-known. He is believed to have died in January 1572 when he fell into the then swollen River Trent and drowned.
The words are from Luke 1.28, 42 and begin “Hail, Mary, full of grace”.
The performance is by the Cambridge Singers directed by John Rutter.
Byrd was an English composer. He held a number of church appointments, particularly as a Gentleman of the Chapel Royal. In 1572 he and Thomas Tallis were granted a joint printing licence from Queen Elizabeth. Despite his Roman Catholic sympathies, he worked in the court of the Elizabeth I. With equal skill he composed music in Latin for the Roman liturgy (possibly the finest by any English composer) and in English for the Anglican liturgy. He also wrote secular songs, madrigals and keyboard pieces.
Sing joyfully is a motet in English. The words are from Psalm 81 and begin “Sing joyfully unto God our strength”. This work shows that, in contrast to the simplicity of Tallis’s If ye love me (No 9), settings in English could be and often were quite complex.
The performance in the clip is by the choir of Winchester Cathedral, probably directed by David Hill.
Victoria was a Spanish priest and composer. He held church and court positions in Spain and Italy. His standing is often compared to Palestrina. Many commentators hear in Victoria’s music a mystical intensity and direct emotional appeal, qualities considered by some to be lacking in the arguably more rhythmically and harmonically placid music of Palestrina. His melodic writing and use of dissonance is more free than that of Palestrina.
Tenebrae is a series of three devotional services held late in the evenings of the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of Holy Week. A special feature is the use of a row of candles, which are extinguished one by one after each item, ending the service in darkness. The words are from Luke 23 and begin “Darkness covered the land”.
The performance in the clip is by the English choir The Sixteen, directed by Harry Christophers.
Giovanni Gabrieli was an Italian organist and composer. His major appointment was as principal organist and composer at St Mark’s Basilica, Venice. Like composers before and after him, he used the unusual layout of the St Mark’s, with its two choir lofts facing each other, to create striking spatial effects. Most of his pieces are written so that a choir or instrumental group will first be heard from the left, followed by a response from the musicians to the right. Gabrieli perfected this technique in works such as In Ecclesiis, a showcase of polychoral techniques, making use of four separate groups of instrumentalists and singers.
The words are from Ps 47 and begin “Clap your hands, all the earth”.
The performance in the clip is by the Gabrieli Consort and Players, directed by Paul McCreesh.
Monteverdi was an Italian singer, viola da gambist, composer and, late in his life, priest. His life and musical output spans the end of the Renaissance and the beginning of the Baroque period of musical history. He held positions in Mantua and Venice. He wrote madrigals, church music and operas. His opera L’Orfeo (Orpheus) is probably the earliest opera still regularly performed.
Vespers was a daily service held in the late afternoon. It featured five psalms, motets or instrumental pieces and the Magnificat (Luke 1). Monteverdi’s setting is on a monumental scale, and there has been some controversy as to whether all the movements were intended to be performed in a single service. The service opens with verses from Ps 70 “O God, come to my assistance”. Monteverdi re-uses music he had composed for “L’Orfeo”.
The information attached the youtube clip specifically mentions the conductor Gabriel Garrido, but the rest of the information is confusing. He is most closely associated with the Ensemble Elyma. His recording of this work includes that ensemble, plus the Studio di Musica Antica Antonio il Verso, Coro polifónico GP da Palestrina and Les Rossignols de Poznan, so they may be the performers on the clip.
Tomkins was a Welsh composer who lived most of his life in England. He held appointments at Worcester Cathedral and the Chapel Royal. He wrote madrigals, keyboard music, consort music, anthems, and liturgical music. Stylistically he was extremely conservative, even anachronistic: he seems to have completely ignored the rising Baroque practice around him, with its Italian-inspired idioms, and he also avoided writing in most of the popular forms of the time, such as the lute song, or ayre. His polyphonic language was that of the Renaissance.
The text is from 2 Samuel 18 and tells of the grief of King David after the death of his favourite son Absalom, who had rebelled against him. (Warning: the compiler of the clip switches from biblical imagery to modern-day photos of parental grief, which may be disturbing.)
(How to start an argument between two singers of early choral music: Ask “Which is better – Tomkins or Weelkes?” I say Weelkes, but couldn’t find a clip of that on youtube.)
Purcell was an English keyboardist and composer. He became organist at Westminster Abbey at the age of 22 when one of his teachers, John Blow, stood aside from that position in his favour. (Blow took over again after Purcell’s early death). Later, he also held the position of organist of the Chapel Royal. He wrote music for both the church and the theatre. Famous works include “Dido and Aeneas”, one of the first operas in English, “I was glad” and “My heart is inditing”, written for the coronation of King James II, and the funeral music for Queen Mary, which was also performed at his own funeral soon after. This work was written around 1680 and is believed to be the first section of a longer complete work. It is, in my humble opinion, the most perfect 2 minutes of music ever written.
The words are from Psalm 102 verse 1.
The performance is by the Choir of Clare College Cambridge directed by Timothy Brown. Unlike the better-known English cathedral and college choirs, this one uses (young) adult women for the soprano and alto lines.
Vivaldi was a Italian priest, virtuoso violinist, teacher and composer. His major musical appointment was at the Pio Ospedale della Pietà, one of four orphanages in Venice financed by the Venetian government. Boys learned a trade and had to leave at age 15, while girls received a musical education and the most talented stayed and became members of the Ospedale’s renowned orchestra and choir. Vivaldi wrote most of his concertos, cantatas, and sacred music for them. He also had considerable success as an opera impresario and composer. His most famous work is the set of four violin concertos, the Four Seasons.
The Gloria is a text from the Mass, and begins “Glory to God in the highest, and peace to his people on earth”. It is usually set to music along with the four other principal texts of the Mass, but sometimes as a stand-alone peice. Vivaldi’s famous setting of the text sets every sentence as a separate movement. The famous opening movement “Glory to God in the highest” is followed by the supremely beautiful “and peace to his people on earth”.
The performance in the clip is by the Kaohsiung Chamber Choir and an un-named orchestra from southern Taiwan. I chose this performance to show just how far this music has travelled. (The soloists sitting at the front sing in other movements.)
Bach was a German organist, composer and teacher. He held church and court positions in Germany. Although he did not travel far, he was aware of musical developments elsewhere. His output is astonishing in its quanity and quality: the Well-Tempered Clavier, the Goldberg Variations and suites and partitas for harpsicord; several hundred works for organ; sonatas and partitas for solo violin; suites for cello; the Brandenburg concertos and suites for orchestra; the Mass in B Minor, the St Matthew Passion, the St John Passion and several hundred other works for choir. Despite this, his music was not widely known, and was considered “old-fashioned” by those who did know of it, especially late in his career when the musical fashion tended towards rococo and classical styles. A revival of interest in and performances of his music began early in the 19th century, and he is now widely considered to be one of the greatest composers in the Western tradition.
What work to pick to represent Bach? I chose this for sentimental reasons: it was part of the first choral/orchestral concert I ever sang in. A cantata is a musical meditation on the bible readings for the day, using arias and choruses, very often incorporating a hymn appropriate to the theme. This cantata “Sleepers, wake! a voice is calling” meditates on Matthew 25. The opening chorus has the sopranos singing the unadorned hymn tune, with the other choir parts and orchestra providing the contrapuntal underlay.
The performance in the clip is by the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra and Choir directed by Ton Koopman. Watch for the instruments reproducing those used in Bach’s time. (Possibly some of them are from Bach’s time.)
Handel was a German-born, naturalised English keyboardist and composer. He benefited from patronage by royals and nobles, but held no formal court (or church) appointments. He made his living as a concert performer and entrepreneur of firstly opera, then oratorio. His most famous works are the oratorio Messiah, and the orchestral works Water Music and Music for the Royal Fireworks.
An oratorio is a extended work that tells a biblical or historical story through recitatives, arias and choruses. They originally developed as extra devotions for churchgoers, but became generally popular (and lucrative) when opera theatres were forced to close during the penitential season of Lent (approx Feb-Mar), but were allowed to present religiously-themed oratorios. Messiah tells the story of Jesus in words from the King James Version English translation of the Bible.
The performance in the clip is by a number of student and amateur choirs and orchestras from France and Germany, directed by Daniel Colombat. I chose this performance for its sheer exhuberance and to show that this music is not the exclusive preserve of specialist groups. This has got everything: electronic keyboards, bass clarinets, choristers sharing scores and trumpeters fluffing notes.
Notable omissions: so many! This barely scratches the surface.
This article is licensed under the GFDL because it contains quotations from Wikipedia.
Contributor: astraya
October 6th, 2008 at 2:45 am
5:45 am and I’m #1!
Oh well, I guess even nerds deserve a list every now and then. Keep up the good work Astraya.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:45 am
So much culture…… head hurts….. must sleep….
October 6th, 2008 at 3:15 am
I got through 1-11.
1 and 2 are my favorites so far.
I love that you can follow with the music in #11.
I’ll take a look at the rest in a little while, promise.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Ah…I spent many a sleepless night trying to scratch the surface of the Pope Marcellus Mass. It almost makes me miss the magic of college and the new composers and works that are thrown at us from every angle.
If you do create a list for music after 1750, I hope you look into Gorecki’s Symphony No. 3 if you have not heard it yet.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Great choral works and evil men. Does this site cover it all, or what?!
downhighway61: the same youtube user who created no 11 has created similar clips for some of the other items in this list. I deliberately didn’t choose the ones showing the musical scores. I thought most users would prefer musicians actually performing, art work or architecture. If you type “youtube – composer name – work name” into a search engine, you should be able to find the user who posted no 11. From there you should be able to link to others.
jfrater – have you done much choral singing, or solo work with choirs?
October 6th, 2008 at 5:20 am
PS I have started a “classical music” forum at http://listverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1305 I’m working on a pretty broad definition of “classical”.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:35 am
7 comments, 2 from the author, 3 from people not interested in the subject (including mine).
Mmm sorry, not the most amusing list.
Hey but I´m number 7! :b
October 6th, 2008 at 8:37 am
I know this sounds silly, but i found listening to some of the first ones quite odd… as i i was listening to the voices of people nealy a thousand years ago!
October 6th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
astraya: I have done no choral work – I have been contracted as a solo performer to sing in oratorios but never as part of the choir. I do love choral music to listen to though and this list has helped me to find a few composers I didn’t know – so thatnks for that!
October 6th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
astraya – great list; many thanks!
October 6th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
“Oh well, I guess even nerds deserve a list every now and then. Keep up the good work Astraya.”
Why not something nerdish indeed? After all, there have been enough *turdish* lists lately, yes? Haha.
As a proud, self-confessed nerd of this thread, if that’s the way folks want to define me, great stuff, astraya, and thanks. It will inspire me to blow dust off a few CDs as accompaniments for my ongoing typing.
How you picked a JSB, I’ve no idea. Line them all up and blindly stab a pin would be my method. Output: roughly one cantata per week at times. Mind blowing, even allowing for partial cannibalisation of previous works. I’ve often wondered what the congregations and ecclesiastical performers of the time made of them. Did they fall asleep in church like the Simpsons? Or was there an intimation of the greatness we now find radiating from them? Something like being in at the birth of a great rock group and knowing. Vivaldi could churn stuff out at a fair old lick for those young ladies too.
Beware of the trendy John Tavener (b. 1944) in lieu of the immortal John Taverner (ca 1495-1546)!!!
We also owe Tallis a lateral debt for inspiring and providing for the magnificent Vaughan Williams ‘Fantasia on a theme of Thomas Tallis’.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
astraya, Thanks for putting together this list. Really good job. I agree with # 8. Poppy. If you just close your eyes you can here pretty much the same sound people did over 300 years ago. (Like going back in time)
October 6th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
I realise that this is a somewhat specialist topic, but currently it’s attracted fewer comments than the history of Palestine! (http://listverse.com/history/the-10-ages-of-palestine/)
MT – you’d be surprised how many choral singers *aren’t* nerdish when they’re not singing choral music. Unlike, say, trekkies, most choral singers have something roughly approaching a real life.
FifthSonata – my main reaction to the Pope Marcellus Mass is terror! The tenor parts are pitched excruciatingly high, and sit there the entire time. I’m toying with a list post-1750, but if I do, Gorecki’s symphony won’t be on it: it has a soprano solist only, so is not a “choral” work. I’ll agree that it’s stunningly beautiful, though.
Poppy and Blogball – one of the reasons I love this music is precisely the connection over the centuries.
Anon – I was expecting you. I didn’t know until I researched this list that Tavener was a direct descendant of Taverner (despite the spelling). Did Vivaldi have the best job, or what? Pity he was an ordained priest! For reasons of space and weight, I brought very few CDs to Korea. I loaded individual tracks onto my computer, but I exhausted them long ago. I found itunes store but my wife told me I was spending too much time and money there.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
astraya I do think that the low incidence of comments is related to the 5 hours of partial downtime this morning. It is a great list IMHO.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
astraya, I love this list. And Jamie is right – the site downtime has reduced the commenting, not the list content. I’m so glad you included Giovanni Gabrieli – his experimentation with vocal chromaticism helped foster equal temperament (the division of the octave into 12 equal half steps) over the unreliable natural tuning.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Astraya, thank you so much for this list. It is a very beautiful selection of choral works. I always feel that choral music is the closest one can get to heaven’s music.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
great list, i love this kind of music.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
be glad, because sooner or later someone’s going to come along with a comment like, ‘waaaaa, waaa, why are all of these items so RELIGIOUS? CHRISTIAN, even?! How biased…’
October 6th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Astraya,
You left out what was perhaps the most delightful pre-1750 choral masterpiece: “Shake Ya Tailfeather” by Puff Daddymus. A sterling example of the early post-gangsta movement. Otherwise, a fantastic list.
Logar
October 6th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
nice list
October 6th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Cool list. I couldn’t get on the site earlier to offer encouraging commentary.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I tried to listen at work but I had to wait until I got home. Maybe I shouldn’t play on the computer at work!
I thought the music was beautiful. I have never been able to sing well and am envious of people who can. It’s a gift. Kudos for bringing some beauty into my life. Thank you.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
logar: “Sicut una virgo” by Madonna was also highly popular!
October 6th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
What about “Sumer is icumin in”?
and the other part of “Gloria” by Vivaldi?
October 7th, 2008 at 12:18 am
The standard ‘Botanical Latin’ runs very thin on verbs (we hardly use ‘em), so please overlook or correct the gash cod translation (sounds quite impressive though!), but otherwise:
“Amor es solo quod necessetatis”
(Quatuor Coleopterae)
Surely a great classic?
October 7th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Tsiamon and astraya,
“be glad, because sooner or later someone’s going to come along with a comment like, ‘waaaaa, waaa, why are all of these items so RELIGIOUS? CHRISTIAN, even?! How biased…’”
On the contrary, another great artistic and spiritual debt we humble atheists are all too delighted to acknowledge, along with the rest of humanity.
astraya,
I guess the great secular choral works date from after 1750, although there are still magnificent religious ones a-plenty of course, and *halfway houses* such as Brahms’s ‘Ein deutsches Requiem’.
If you decide to do that list (looking to the quality of comments, not quantity – hahaha!), may I put in a plea for the absolutely lovely ‘Springtime in Funen’ by Nielsen, the first CD I ever bought. Also Martinu’s ‘The Epic of Gilgamesh’.
Well that’s bumped up your comments by one more.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:54 am
Friends, this selections are a complete Masterpiece. it’s very beautiful & soul uplifting. keep on the good work. goodluck to u all!
October 7th, 2008 at 3:48 am
Great news! We’ve out-commented the history of Palestine.
greg – I decided that one secular work would stick out like a sore thumb in the middle of a list of sacred works. I limited myself to one work per composer. I chose the less well-known second movement instead of the well-known first movement because I think it’s one of the most beautiful movements ever written.
Anon: I think Tsaimon is worried about the non-humble athiests.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:16 am
I LOVE this list!
Even though I’m only familiar with a few of them, I found myself humming along to some of the others though I have never known the composers!
I too used to sing in a choir and have (at some point) sung all of the 4 parts of 4 part harmonies (Sporano, Alto, Tenor, Bass) – just the reverb from the Cathedral we used to sing in was enough to send shivers down your spine!
astraya, thanks for making my day and bringing back some fond memories.
October 7th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Great list! I mostly listen to alternative rock but have always had a weakness for Bach. After thoroughly enjoying the beautiful music here, I now realize I will have to spend a considerable amount of money expanding the classical part of my CD collection.
October 7th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Worst list…. ever. Jamie, looks like you need another goodie… its coming.
October 7th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Hey Anon!
I was wondering myself why there’s no one pissing and moaning about the evil, hateful, uneducated RELIGIOUS music that has probably caused all pain in war in the world!
lol
October 7th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
astraya,
Ah,like I worry about the non-humble believers!!!!
October 7th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Did I detect a turd among the nerds?
October 7th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Your choices do not surprise me, astraya. Imagine that! Some folks know you too well. Will need a few wet weekends to enjoy all the list. Well done.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Randall described my movie list as the worst ever. Now some Wally is describing this one. At least I’m consistent! At least Randall provided reasons for his opinion.
I have only just deciphered your botanical Latin. That’s a better attempt than I would have been able to make. My Latin is really rusty.
Years ago I attended a church music summer school at which the guest director gave an after-dinner speech about the history of a song which started life as a plainchant called “Maria parvum agnem habui” and transmographied through the ages, illustrated with musical excerpts in the style of various composers.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
astraya,
Might have started off in Bethlehem as Agnus Dei, maybe?
Always look on the bright side. Post 31 bumped up your total by one! It’s an ill-wind … no matter whose backside generates it!!!
October 7th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Esterino (and others, who’s mostly positive reception has allowed me to come forth and de-mask): Thank you so much! I really had a blast putting this list together and have such tremendous gratitude for Atraya in taking over the reins in polite fashion for the sake of all! Thanks buddy!
Yah see, I’ve never been too much of anything around these parts (being a mere lap dog, mixed with tainted beast) and my “MAD STYLINS” would just go over heads, but I thought “none-the-less”, that I would “show ‘em all” with a truely insightfull overview and good measured taste of the choral angelicas ” grand “audiboratory world” —Allll the way back to Pre-1750!
Can you believe it?
That’s right kids!, the 21st century is “grrooovvie” and all , so go ahead and tout and say those over there are “so pre 9/11″.
But, “Pre-1750″?
Yous all gots nuthin on this baby!
Nuuutthhhinnn!
Allrite (fun’s over) I would go on, but I’m not being paid for my time.
Thanks Astraya. This is the kind of list that I’ll come back to because there’s a longevity with it’s source and I know I will be following up on it directly. It’s like seasoning over time.
This isn’t a false, “I’ll buy you a drink sometime”
It’s for real
October 7th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
“habuiT”. I told you my Latin was rusty.
diogenes: What are you on????
October 7th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
39.-Not much man, not much.
Although, I’m not your ordinary sedan, by any means.
“Premit altum corde doloreum”
October 7th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
It’s “dolorem” diogenes.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
And probably “agnem parvum”, too. (Noun, adjective.)
October 8th, 2008 at 3:48 am
Dies Irae?
October 8th, 2008 at 4:57 am
Dawn Bearer: That was my alternative choice for item No 1.
October 8th, 2008 at 5:43 am
This list is AWESOME.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
astraya – Terror to the Marcellus Mass?! You made me laugh with that one – I share the terror, but from a music history student standpoint…I’m still kicking myself for not getting dual certification in band and choir.
Might I suggest a list of B.C. music – the Epitaph of Seikilos, Stasimon Chorus…?
October 8th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Loved this list. Remember buying Vivaldi’s Gloria and listening to it all the way through for the first time. Truly special.
Wally, look! A red car! (That’ll keep him busy.)
October 8th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Ray Bees (47) That was funny. I laughed twice. And then again. Out loud.
October 8th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
FifthSonata: You seem to know two things more about BC music than I do. How about you write that list?
Ray Bees: I remember hearing the Vivaldi Gloria for the first time and being completely baffled by it being broken up into separate movements (sometimes arbitrarily). Familiarity and historical context have overcome that.
I once sang Haydn’s Nelson Mass for a church service at a church music summer school. That has three distinct movements. We sang the first movement, the minister read the opening prayer (in error!), then we sang the second and third movements.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
astraya,
I’d have wanted to do that glorious first movement over again! That’s what happens if someone interrupts my concentration when I’m listening to a CD.
October 8th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Hey, I just clocked up your 50th comment. How about that!
October 8th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
I spent some of last night browsing around youtube for clips to use on a possible “post-1750″ list. I can’t find some of the works on my preliminary list. I might have to make a list of “Great choral works from after 1750 for which I can find clips on youtube”. (Actually, I had to leave one of my favourite works out of this list because I couldn’t find a clip.)
October 8th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
astraya, (52),
I’m toying with the idea of a similar musical list and was worrying about that selfsame problem. My thought (and suggestion) is to at least name any that cannot be included for want of an illustration.
Apropos. So what were you obliged to leave out?
October 8th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Jan Dismas Zelenka, “Missa dei Filii”?
October 9th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Anon: I don’t know that work. I know very little about Zelenka at all. Obiviously my musical education was in alphabetical order: lots of Bach, Beethoven and Brahms, medium amount of Mahler and Mozart, no Zelenka. (Vivalida and Wagner spoil that theory!)
I stopped my list when I got to 20. The one that I left out purely because I couldn’t find a clip was Weelkes’s “When David heard”. I deliberately didn’t include Allegri’s Miserere, mainly because, in its well-known form, it’s a 20th century (mis)reconstruction. I regretfully omitted Pergolesi’s Stabat Mater, now thought to be for 2 soloists. Others on my “thought of them too late” list were Lotti’s Crucifixus, something by Schutz, something by Gibbons, something Spanish. (Both choirs I sang in in Australia sang a lot of Spanish music. There is also a great amount of Latin American music from this era I have never experienced.) Lesser know contemporaries of Schutz were Schein and Scheidt but I think there’s too much “shite” music in the world already, though Scheidt’s isn’t. There’s a serious of very bad puns there. I said “It’s been a long time since I’ve done any Scheidt. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever done Scheidt.” One of my fellow choristers discovered that there was a Scheidt School of Music somewhere in the USA, which I suppose is better than a school of shite music. There’s a Stabat Mater by Domenico Scarlatti and a work by Andrea Gabrieli (not sure but I think it’s O sacrum convivium).
I could get this list to 30 easily. I don’t know if I could find clips for them all, though.
October 9th, 2008 at 12:03 am
PS You don’t have to find clips for everything. You can always say “There’s this wonderful piece of music called (title) by (composer), but I can’t find a clip for it”!
October 9th, 2008 at 12:34 am
astraya (your 56 first),
Yes, that’s exactly what I had in mind.
I think one might imagine Sir Thomas (Beecham) to have rounded on a choir during an off moment with, “Might we have that Scheidt again, but this time in a little less constipated fashion if you please, ladies and gentlemen?”
You mean you might stop easily at 30 entries???? To get you to Spain and along the alphabet, try Victoria.
I pulled Zelenka out of the hat in the hope of introducing him to yet another satisfied customer. In fact the purely instrumental works are the ones to go for. Splendid stuff.
If Telemann (a couch potato?) is arguably the big neglected man of the baroque, Zelenka is surely the forgotten one, although sadly, he left us all too little.
Composers beginning with Z are real oneupmanship. Zemlinsky is fairly well known, particularly for the quartets, and I know a Zmeskal, but that’s it for me. But curiously, although A is somewhat better represented, it’s not all that well.
Its past, well past, beddy byes. So off for a quick bit of baroque REM, maybe, to mix topics.
October 9th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Astraya : I don’tknow much about classic music and choral works, but I know Dies Irae is important.
October 9th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
astraya,
To avoid giving the impression of a know-all (too late?), I should point out that what I’ve picked up is totally genre- rather than alphabet-based! To begin with I never *heard* the words of any music when I was a kid (bar hymns read out of books, etc.), even pop, no matter how much I liked the tune. Whether this is some kind of innate blind spot, or whether I liked the actual music so much I had no concentration left for words, I can’t say. Anyway, I always ended up humming or whistling the music and either repeating over and over the first few words, or making up the rest as a sort of nonsense scat.
Consequently, I’ve always tended towards pure instrumental stuff. Whatever is choral and solo voice followed rather later into the collection, and opera is distinctly more Anita’s realm. It’s just that there isn’t time either. Life’s too short, however long art. So my non-obligatory interest started with minor fringe classics, went on to the core symphonic output, branched into chamber and harmoniemusik works and specialised there, trying to add bits of the best of all the rest (for me) from all the ages along the way. In other words like a stamp collection which has its recondite speciality, but also a broad general selection.
So my sophisticated philosophy is: Ee, lad, I know what I like and I like what I know, and that’s it.
October 9th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Dawn Bearer: Astraya: … I know Dies Irae is important.
I’m not saying that it isn’t. In fact I fully agree with you that it is. My list is “great” choral works, not “important” ones.
Anon: After a brief wander down memory lane and a browse through the composer list on the choral public domain library, I further thought of:
Greene: Let me know mine end
Sweelinck: Hodie Christus natus est
Fayrfax: Agnus Dei
Hammerschmidt: O rejoice, ye Christians, loudly [I sang it in English translation. I know that the German original has a slightly less gigglesome word.]
Blow: Salvator mundi
Lassus: Timor et tremor
There’s also Biber, Gesualdo, Lully, Delalande and a Polish composer whose name I can’t remember.
What’s that – going on 40 or 50 by now.
I have some compilation CDs of 1970s pop music. Sometimes when I’m listening, a word or phrase that I never knew when I was an adolescent pops out at me and I think “oh my goodness, is that what it says”. Or there’s a website with lyrics and/or explanations. A musical setting of a text, be it pop song, lied or choral work, has a musical meaning independent of its text.
October 9th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
astraya,
For a year or so I lived in Turnham Grün which is just west of Hammerschmidt in Greater London. (I’m just imagining Hitler had won the war. Hahaha!)
I forgot to add something about the interdependence and interrelation between words and music, as you mention. A very well-known musicologist (specialist in Russian composers) used to take an adult class I attended. Works as wide-ranging as ‘Don Giovianni’, ‘Boris Godonov’, Mozart’s clarinet quintet and Nielsen’s 5th would be analysed. We could choose our own works to a degree. He pointed out a fundamental difference between composers such as Bach, for whom the voice was an integral part of the texture (and as such interchangeable with identical purely instrumental passages), and others for whom the music merely serves to point up the rhythms and cadences of speech. He added that good composers create a relationship of mood between textual drama and orchestration, as should film composers, and I have often noticed this played up in analyses of Bach cantatas, for example. It’s a subtlety I probably miss out on to a great degree!
Apropos of Bach as stodgy, conservative fuddy-duddy. A greatly admired musicologist once described him as the vanguard of the romantics. One who can bring tears to the eyes and make the hair stand up on the back of the neck, as can Schubert. Nice.
October 9th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
“It’s a subtlety I probably miss out on to a great degree!”
Or do I pick it up subliminally from the music itself and therefore *bypass* the explanatory words as superfluous? Who knows?
October 10th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Astraya:it’s a good list for a starter like me
October 10th, 2008 at 5:52 am
Dawn Bearer: Happy exploring and experiencing!
Anon: It occurred to me earlier today that choral music is about the only place in music where we get to hear the same words set to different music on a regular basis. (Some hymns have alternative tunes, but one is generally sung in each church.) Palestrina and Bach (and many other) set the words of the Mass, Mozart and Verdi (and many others) wrote Requiems and just about everyone wrote Ave Mariae (Schubert and Gounod will serve as examples). I could write a Mass, Requiem and Ave Maria, and it could be accepted as a genuine (if small) part of the choral tradition (provided it was of sufficient quality). If I wrote a completely different musical setting of “Hotel California”, I’d be howled at (and sued for breach of copyright in the words).
Different composers approach the same words in different ways. Some Kyries are pleading, some are already assured of forgive and some (Beethoven) are almost throttling God. Some Sanctuses are majestically holy and some are mysteriously holy.
October 10th, 2008 at 8:22 am
astraya,
Very interesting point indeed. I wonder if anyone has ever taken one of the sections of the mass across the history of the settings and made composer comparisons as per your example for the Kyries and Sanctuses? Apart from the composer’s actual mood-setting, there is the imposition of his(or her) inevitable overall style. One of my first-known and best-loved favourites, the Schubert A flat major, D.678, is so … well … Schubertian. And again, like Schubert, some have composed more than one, and with distinct settings: Bach’s Lutheran masses, for example.
Apart from other formal religious settings, I can’t think of any precise musical formulae for repetition either.
However, more than one composer has certainly taken a literary or mythical theme and given it their respective treatments. Shakespeare plays come immediately to mind. Also don Juan, Figaro, Faust and others. Needless to say, the comparisons there are far, far fewer, and the texts utterly dissimilar. To take two composers almost adjacent in the catalogue: ‘Roméo et Juliette’ of Berlioz with ‘West Side Story’ of Bernstein!!
I was amused by your *Sanctuses*, which led me to musings belonging in another topic! My COD ducks out by not giving a plural. ‘The Right Word at the Right Time’ carefully traces the cords, but offers no cut through the Gordian knot of -i and -uses! Broadly speaking, in natural history we always use -i where the object has no common use. Even for garden plants and zoo animals -i is dominant: hence cacti, narcissi, gladioli, hippopotami, with the occasional option of both (crocuses, croci), although nowadays -uses would be acceptable for all of them. I wondered about those Latin mass terms as they in fact are headings of Latin texts, and are also international. Latin has gone out of the window in everyday ecclesiastical useage, otherwise I’d ask Anita what Chileans would make of *Sanctuses*!!! Presumably the alternative plural for Kyrie would be Kyria? Sounds like a remote little Aegean holiday island!!!
October 10th, 2008 at 8:34 am
A thought for any literal-minded commenters who consider it strange or hypocritical a non-Christian should be into religiously inspired musical settings.
Is it obligatory to face east and pray in arabic at the cry of the muezzin to appreciate the art and architecture of that oriental faith?
Or to club your wife and drag her by the hair to the nuptial bed in order to respond to the aesthetics of neolithic cave painting?
Or indeed to reject high mass or other Catholic settings if a Protestant?
October 12th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Anon: you raise valid and interesting points as usual. I don’t think it’s strange at all. Appreciate of all these art forms is completely indepedent of religious belief a) at all, b) in common with the creator of those works of art. It could be argued that Protestants are missing the intention of Catholic mass settings, non-Muslims ditto with art and architecture etc.
There are rumours that Byrd changes texture at “and I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church” in order to stick one up the Anglicans. I’ve just taken a look at the scores and am not convinced. He changes texture every couple of bars throughout the work. There are also rumours that Schubert omits that line, as a statement of his (non)belief. I think it is more likely that he just forgot. (He wrote more settings than Byrd did, so I’m not going to look at each one.)
I was wondering: would any composer post-Beethoven attempt to set Schiller’s Ode to Joy? (The answer is yes. I have just done some research – Tchaikovsky set the words in a Russian translation.)
October 13th, 2008 at 9:17 am
astraya,
“It could be argued that Protestants are missing the intention of Catholic mass settings, non-Muslims ditto with art and architecture etc.”
Another good point. In a sense, it somewhat parallels the situation where an ecologist will *understand* the adaptation purpose of markings on a flower or moth, whereas for the gardener, insect collector or ordinary observer they may be no more than amazingly pretty *abstract* patterns (unless explained by an ecologist!).
Of course there are big differences. The full sense of something that connects subjectively with a core belief can probably never be replicated in an objective way. Whether or not that diminishes the artistic appreciation at all, I don’t know. A German Me109 pilot had to identify a Spitfire silhouette in order to survive. I doubt that affected his *abstract* appreciation of the actual wonderful lines of the Spit one way or the other! Of course, interested Protestants and non-Muslims can, if they wish, find courses run by specialists, who will explain all the relevant religious and cultural connections, as would my ecologist to lay naturalists.
That was interesting about Tchaikovsky. The general assumption would be that the 9th set the precedent for choral symphonies rather than a literal series of the ?Ode to Joy’. Most were sufficiently initimidated by Beethoven’s achievements simply to find writing a symnphony to match, let alone surpass then a knotty enough proposition!
October 13th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Sorry about the last para. It got *hidden* and therefore was not checked.
October 14th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Either this is way over my tiny brain or im bored beyond belief.I figure the former.
October 16th, 2008 at 3:34 am
You folk have far too much to say and should spend more time listening. If you had no ears, the brain would have nothing to say about the music. I agree with No.70. However, I think that a tiny brain is better than an inflated display of knowledge. Just enjoy the music for the joy it brings the soul. Quit the academics and acknowledge the aestheics. Shut up and listen.
Luvyasall.
October 17th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
I thought thats what the comments section was for.Oh well sorry if I offended anyone but i just dont get this kind of music or Jazz either.
October 17th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
bigski,
I did not aim my message at you at all. We all need to be less intense with our music preferences. I am 64yo and Pussy Cat Dolls (Bach second) are my fav at present. I am twisted and maybe perverted but see great joy in the musical sounds I hear, not the academics expounding the brain stuff and forgetting to “listen”. Enjoy the music.
astraya you are exceptionally quiet. Hmm.
October 21st, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Winteroranges,
Who was (or were) the target(s) of your message then? To each his own. This 72yo is perfectly capable of wallowing in sensuous sounds and expounding aesthetic bullshit. If you aren’t, tough. Don’t boast about a deficiency. Nor tell others what their preferences should be, how to listen and what not to discuss. There is nothing more sickening than superiority wrapped up as humility. Much of the music that gives me joy comes to my attention via written or conversational *brain stuff* recommendations.
To lay it on the line: If you don’t like the heat, quit the topic.
October 21st, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Winteroranges: So what if I am? I said in the introduction “If you are not into that [referring to church history, theology and imagery, but the comment applies to technical discussion, too] please sit back and enjoy the music.”
The scroll bar is for scrolling. You can scroll past any, or indeed all, comments as you please.
I, personally, get more enjoyment from music the more technical knowledge I gain, not less.
Anon: Hi! Lunchtime is just about over and I’ve got two more classes this afternoon, so I can’t say much at this stage.
October 21st, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Sorry, forgot to close off the italics after the quotation.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:02 am
i believe “kyrie” was also of johannes ockeghem. i know because it’s featured in civ4 (the game) as background music. it’s really good.
i love your list. could you tell me where i can download these?
would you consider posting a list on classical music?
thanks.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:25 am
i suggest you do lists of the best choral music according to time period (e.g. 15th century, 1750-1850…)
also i would like to share one of my favorites: it’s entitled “agnus dei” (AHN-yous day), composed by samuel barber, performed by king’s college choir. i think this is relatively recent so it certainly does not belong to this list but this is very good too. i know because it’s featured in another game, homeworld, which is about an entire race of aliens exiled from their home planet after being defeated by another race of evil imperial aliens in a long galactic war. this song(?) made me feel really bad for the good aliens.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:34 am
maybe i should post a list of music in video games
October 22nd, 2008 at 6:07 am
Joanne: Interesting comments. It’s nearly beddy-byes in Korea, so I reply tomorrow.
Jamie: did you edit my 75 after I posted 76? 76 now makes no sense! Could you please delete 76 and this section of this post? Is there a self-edit facility? (There is in the forums.)
October 22nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
astraya, (for when you greet a new dawn),
Who knows where, but somewhere I’ve had this 71-74 argument out before in another LV topic. It’s the old red herring of botanical science ruining the instinctive aesthetic response to pretty flowers; astronomy destroying our magical sense of the inifinity of the universe when gazing up innocently at a starry sky, and all that crap.
Of course, there always is the “Inch worm, inch worm, measuring the marigolds. Seems to me you fail to see how beautiful they are” syndrome. Some specialists can indeed fall into that blasé and soulless state. But in my experience those that do were so pre-disposed anyway. Most of the great technical experts and communicators in music (Albert Schweitzer), natural history (Ed Wilson) and astronomy (Caral Sagan), and so on are inspirational because of their knowledge and the way they communicate it IN WORDS. Their enchantment and enthusiasm has increased, not diminished, with knowledge, as you rightly point out.
Of course, those who quite validly get their pleasure from happily dabbling in warm shallows have every right to do so. Why not? The objection is when they presume to complain arrogantly about others who get as much or more satisfaction from swimming further out in the deeps.
Winteroranges might consider popping over to the Shakespeare plays and Greatest Epics LV topics next and telling all the many intricate commentators there to shut up and get on with watching and listening to the works rather than gabbling on about them.
By the way, our winter oranges are excellent and sweet this year and we’re enjoying them without need for further comment right now!
October 22nd, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Anon: You and I both know that it is entirely possible to keep both the brain and heart working at the same time. It is also entirely possible to switch one off while operating the other. I would love to re-visit Carl Sagan’s books and tv. Another name apropos is Howard Goodall in the field of music.
At university one of our professors knew everything about everything about music but never once gave any indication that he actually enjoyed it. The other’s lectures generally went something like this: “One of the most important composers of this period was [name]. He wrote an exquisite little song called [title]. It goes like this [sits down at piano and accompanies himself through a verse and chorus of the song named, gets up suddenly and says] but we don’t have time for all of that. One of his closest associates was [name]. He wrote an absolutely gorgeous little song called [name]. It goes [ditto and so on]“. Everything he said or did was just dripping with his love for his chosen art and study.
On the other hand, it is possible for peformers to get so bound up in the technicalities that we lose the music. In my first year in Sydney, we sang in the heat of the state choral competition. We were so disappointed over our performance (which included a work of mine, BTW) that we immediately adjourned to the pub. About half-way through the second glass a member of another choir came in an told us that his and our choir had been selected for the final, and that we’d scored the highest. (Neither of us won the final.)
It has been raining here pretty much non-stop for two days, and the students are getting even rattier.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
Joanne: re 77 – 1) i believe “kyrie” was also of johannes ockeghem. i know because it’s featured in civ4 (the game) as background music. it’s really good.
Do you mean the “Kyrie” in clip number 1, or do you mean another piece called “Kyrie”? The Kyrie text is one of a set of 5 texts regularly set to music together by a composer. Many composers set that text to music. Many composers (in fact most of the composers on this list) wrote different settings of that text. The music on the video game might be a Kyrie by Ockeghem, but it’s probably not the one in clip number 1. I would bet all my musical experience that the Kyrie in clip number 1 was not written by Ockeghem.
i love your list.
Thank you.
could you tell me where i can download these?
I’m not sure whether youtube allows you to download files to your computer. You may be able to save your favourites within youtube. Maybe you know youtube better than I do. I save my favourites using my internet browser. Go to google, type in something distinctive (eg for number 17 “youtube Purcell hear my prayer Clare”) and google should show that at the top of the list. Click on that, which will take you to the youtube page. Using your internet browser (probably internet explorer) select “bookmarks” – “add bookmark”. You might want to type in a distinctive name, like “Purcell – Hear my prayer”.
would you consider posting a list on classical music? and (comment 78) i suggest you do lists of the best choral music according to time period (e.g. 15th century, 1750-1850…)
I have in mind a list of choral music after 1750, but western classical music mushroomed after then, and there’s so much to choose from. And we know so much more about non-western traditions from after then as well, about which I know comparatively less. I have thought about slicing the post-1750 list into segments: “western” choir and orchestra, “western” choir only etc. If another LU member has a thing for African traditional singing, which is now widely available (eg Ladysmith Black Mambazo) they can do a list.
“agnus dei” (AHN-yous day), composed by samuel barber,
I know that piece. I’ve never had the chance to sing it, though. From a singer’s point of view, it sounds terrifying – soft, slow and controlled. If I make a list of 20th century music for choir only, it’ll be on it. That piece exists in at least 4 arrangements: string quartet (original), string orchestra (used on the movie “Platoon”, I believe), choir, and organ. (BTW, it’s usually “AHN-yous day-ee”, but the “ay” and the “ee” can sound sort of similar.)
If you like that piece, search for “Lauridsen magnum mysterium robert shaw”. There are many versions of Morten Lauridsen’s “O magnum mysterium” on youtube. In my humble opinion none of them match up the version on CD by one of the choirs I sang in, but that’s not on youtube. The best that I found was by the Robert Shaw Singers, but it has no video, only Robert Shaw’s photo. You can close your eyes if you want to.
maybe i should post a list of music in video games
You already know two things more about music in video games than I do! 8 more items and you’ve got a list!
Best wishes.
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:49 am
astraya,
Reminds me a bit of my father and his four sisters. All put to an instrument. A bit of *culcha* and local prestige was the parental aim. I have a sepia picture of the quintet on my study wall (ages, about 11 to 20): violin, viola, harp (eldest), ‘cello (Dad) and violin. They really do look the proper little chamber outfit! I was told they could turn a mean ‘Minuet’ by Boccherini for public performance. But their innate culture was sport and lightweight popular of the time.
Only the harpist aunt took music further: she taught the piano and harp until the arrival of my younger cousin. But that aunt had a heart of stone. She actually knew or cared nothing for the great ocean of music their instruments had arisen from, or hers in particular. Music was a mere pleasant profession. Like banking, or sweeping the road it could be switched on and off for the occasion.
My father’s cello (not full-size) stood in a corner of the walls of our living room until it was eventually sold at auction for a very fair price. Meanwhile, before I could escape being chained to the piano myself (I had excellent touch, an amazing total *finger memory*, but was irremedially sight-reading blind), I once needed to practice a duet for a forthcoming festival. Dad took his cello from the corner, replaced the strings as necessary, tuned up and sight-read the other part straight off, note-perfectly and with sensitive touch after not having played the instrument for around two decades! Yet he never (deliberately) listened to or interested himself in *serious* music. The very soul of tolerance, he put up with, indulged and helped my later interest via recordings.
Further afield in that same family though, an uncle of his was one of the founder members of the historical Boyd Neel orchestra, the first regular professional outfit based on attempted period performance. So I guess the genes were around.
One of my daughters has started to sing jazz and standards seriously. She is looking for a possible semi-professional continuation.
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:21 am
astraya: thank you very much for the informative reply!
i love this kind of sites. i learn something new from many interesting people everyday!
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Anon your really clever comment #74 should be beneath you since you seem to be an expert at psyc 101.Analize this comment.
October 23rd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Analize?!
October 24th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Excuse me i guess i cant spell either-analyze- thankyou. Or punctuate properly.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Sorry, bigski,
I’m not a couch man. Analysis is for insecure neurotics. I’m a simple secure neurotic.
Apropos, actually, although not a fanatic, I enjoy jazz randomly too.
“i just dont get this kind of music”
When a topic doesn’t turn me on, or actually irritates me, I simply leave it well alone. So what’s the fascination?
October 24th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Just making driveby comments – no fascination!
October 24th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
bigski,
October 14, 17, 23, 24 x 2. Looks a bit more like deliberate repetitive short stop-off comments rather than one casual driveby remark. Again why?
I’ll fill in a bit more detail.
Personally I don’t get the squeeze-drop kick of a dry lemon out of horse racing. But even when I driveby the race track in action, I don’t feel the urge to go in and “What the fuck?” those who live by the gee gees and throw their money away at them. Not even once. Why on earth should I waste my time?
Smoking gets up my nose. If humanly possible I avoid like the poison places where people smoke. Why should I cut my way through dense swirls of burning nicotine pollution to argue the toss with happy addicts? People are free to put their health at risk so long as they don’t risk mine.
And so on and on.
Aren’t there enough topics to interest you positively in LV or something, let alone in the world beyond?
October 24th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
(Clears throat unobtrusively …)
I went to a choral concert in Seoul last night. Some time today I’ll type a report into my “classical music” forum, then paste a link here.
Please listen to and discuss the music here, please.
bigski – I’m sorry you corrected the spelling. I was looking forward to Anon telling us the results of his analization!
October 25th, 2008 at 6:20 am
(Looks bashfully at floor …)
Sorry to disappoint. I’m an Oral man myself.
Been there, done that, got the toothbrush, got the toothpaste …
Oral man: those who know (and will never forget) John Cleese and Connie Booth’s marvellous ‘Fawlty Towers’ TV series may recall when Basil, behind Sybil’s back) tries to get an on-the-cheap piece of building repair done by a shark called O’Reilly. When the latter arrives, the only member of staff present in the hotel is the hapless Manual from Barcelona with his fractured English. After a long, confused interchange of misunderstanding, the light finally switches on for Manuel, “Ah, you orally man!!”
October 25th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Oh dear, there I go with my Jungian slips again (or does my spelling also simply need correcting?).
Of course, as you must certainly have realised the intention was “an aural man”, not “an oral man” …
October 26th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Re my 93. Another slip (as comes from typing when tired),
Should be Manuel not Manual, of course.
Something musical from the same series.
Basil is at the reception desk engrossed in some recording. The philistine Sybil sweeps in and fixes him with the gimlet eye, “Basil! Turn that row off!” Basil, with sarcasticic mock affection, “Ah, would that be Beethoven’s Seventh row you’d be meaning, my dear?” (As ever, his sarcasm falls on deaf ears.)
October 27th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Brahms’ second racket, I seem to remember. When they showed that in most of Spain, they kept the “Barcelona” reference intact. When they showed it in Catalonia, they substituted “Mexico”.
We should be over on “greatest tv show”, to which I haven’t contributed yet.
Re music: the post-1750 list may have to wait. I spent some of the weekend wading through 52 clips of Mozart’s Requiem and 156 of Schubert’s Mass in G, then spent 25 hours trying to decide between the Berlioz and Verdi Requiems.
The greatest Spanish organist ever was Emanuel Pedale.
October 27th, 2008 at 4:29 am
PS I thought you really meant “oral”. “Aural … toothbrush … toothpaste” doesn’t make sense. What do you do with your toothbrush and toothpaste if you are an aural man? (I don’t dare think what you might do with your toothbrush and toothpaste if you were an analizing man!)
October 27th, 2008 at 6:20 am
astraya,
Well remembered! I listened to the episode once and thought I’d got away with it (the music reference). Well, untrue actually, but it has been a very fair while since we’ve had time to dust down the Fawlty tapes and play them over. At least a decade and a half. I do remember reading somewhere once that there are all kinds of strange alterations in the presentation from country to country (maybe wiki has something). A Top 10 most widely broadcast (internationally) TV series would be interesting. Little doubt Benny Hill would top the lot. Playing his recordings even helped to keep up the morale of Russian soldiers in Afghanistan. Probably the Taliban clandestinely enjoyed captured examples as well: (any woman who glimpsed one to be executed!). Nobody resident in Chile, apart from Anita, knows of Fawlty. Everyubody has heard of Hill!
Well yes, I couldn’t resist the oral-aural pun in a musical context. Cleaning one’s teeth with cotton buds is a bit of a finicky,, time-consuming job too, not to mention the gross aural inefficiency of replacing ear wax with toothpaste!
Wow! Sounds like you might need a year or so to make up your next list. Doubtless folks don’t realise the time it takes to get one on the road. I spent ages on that product and people names job, and was more than a little disillusioned by the tepid response (as I noticed you were here earlier in this topic . I “analized” the sort of subjects that interested me – where I had sufficient basic info to build something – and decided they were probably all what the vast majority would slag off as nerdish or boring. Curious that as information on so many subjects becomes ever more widely available through literature, the internet and recording, so many people simply cluster around the same few common-ground limited interests and obsessions.
“I don’t dare think what you might do with your toothbrush and toothpaste if you were an analizing man!”
Better steer clear of comments about *sweet breath* there, methinks!
October 27th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Anon: Better steer clear of comments about *sweet breath* there, methinks!
Or keep your “mouth” shut!
99 comments, mainly by digressing.
I relistened to numbers 1-10 on the weekend.
October 29th, 2008 at 8:43 am
astraya,
Something completely off-topic to make up your *ton*.
Looking up something else in the filmic line, I chanced upon a eulogy for “Rabbit-proof Fence”, which was echoed in all other sources I checked. It went straight onto my DVD *wanted* list.
It also prompted me to wonder about a Top 10 (or however many) Australian film list (or part Australian in this and other cases). I have enjoyed and been impressed by so many Oz flicks, but don’t have the knowledge, let alone the scholarship for such an undertaking myself. Do you? Or might anyone on LV, or Jamie?
Oh dear, I should have checked it hasn’t been done already. If so, you’ve got a buckshee Nº 100!
November 2nd, 2008 at 12:37 am
Anon: thanks for the ‘100′.
Interesting suggestion. I wouldn’t want to wade through considering what is an “Australian” movie or not. I’ll say “maybe”. I’ve got real life and several other ideas for lists to deal with first.
I listened to numbers 11-20 a couple of days ago.