Some time ago I read a fascinating article describing the experiences of MPs and soldiers who had been involved in interrogation against suspected terrorists in Iraq. The MPs and soldiers talked candidly about their methods when using “no-touch torture” – loud music and sounds designed to cause discomfort and prevent sleep. The soldiers listed their “favorite” music for interrogation sessions – and from that list I give you this list – the top 10 torture soundtracks.
The provocative music and singing style of Aguilera is the reason that it has been so popular with young MPs (Military Police) who were handling interrogation of suspected terrorists. It would go against the morals of the suspects (who would not approve of such outward displays of femaleness) while allowing the MPs to enjoy some “music from home”. It is not known whether Aguilera approves the use of her music for interrogation.
White America is Eminem’s take on American society and his rocketing to fame – which he blames on his white skin. The song criticizes various politicians and speaks out for suburban youths. The music style is most likely the reason for its choice in torture soundtracks as it would be very alien to the ears of most people under interrogation at the present time. The song was very popular in Canada where it reached number 3 on the charts.
The lyrics of this song are hardly provocative, so it is most likely that it was used because it was sung by the Bee Gees, and frankly, the Bee Gees music is torture even without lyrics. It may have also been seen to be ironic by the people performing the interrogation sessions due to its title. Forced to listen to the Gibb brothers for hours on end would make me confess to absolutely anything.
A lot of torture sessions involve(d) the use of music by Rage Against the Machine – an American rap cum rock group formed in 1991. Apparently the band members have some integrity, because as soon as they found out their music was being used in this way, they wrote to the State Department and demanded that it cease immediately. Whether or not that happened is unknown, but good on them for standing up and speaking out.
For the non-Americans amongst us (myself included), Meow Mix is a popular type of cat food in the USA. In 1970, Meow Mix launched a commercial which has now become iconic. The jingle was written by Shelly Palmer in 1970. The lyrics were, “I want tuna, I want chicken, Meow Mix flavors keep me lickin.” In commercials, it was typically meowed by a cat (often called “Mr Meow”), with English subtitles. This commercial is extremely popular in torture sessions – I am not sure why, except that maybe it becomes annoying in time, though it is also possible that it was simply used as it reminded the MPs of home.
You don’t need to be a terrorist to despise Country Music – millions of people everywhere do. It is likely that the majority of interrogation MPs dislike country music and that may explain the fact that it appears on a large number of interrogation soundtracks. I personally like a bit of country so it would not be tortuous for me, but played at sufficiently high a volume, I am not sure I would be too pleased with it.
America (or “They’re coming to America”) is the name of a patriotic song written and originally recorded by Neil Diamond in 1980. Its patriotic bent is the reason that it is so popular with interrogators. Interestingly, this song was added to the Clear Channel list of songs deemed inappropriate for broadcast after the 9/11 attacks in the US. Shortly after the attacks, Diamond changed the lyrics in live performances from “They’re coming to America” to “Stand up for America”.
Those here who knew children while Barney was a hit will well remember this terrible song. The Barney Theme Song was so hated amongst adults that it became something of an Internet Meme. For this reason I am sure most here will understand the reason that so many MPs would choose this music when supervising interrogation sessions. Against my better judgement I have included a video clip of it. Listen at your own risk.
Janeane Garofalo is a powerful Jewish American woman who does standup comedy that frequently refers to sleeping around and dating. You could say that she is the epitome of all that the “enemy” hates about America and its society. It therefore stands to reason that her stand up routines would frequently appear in torture playlists. Having said that, I am sure that if Sarah Silverman started her show a few years ago, she would be used instead. Personally, I find her amusing – but many people find her annoying. For your viewing pleasure I have included a clip of Janeane doing a standup routine.
Just when you thought Metallica couldn’t damage their reputation any further, the morons wrote to the State Department saying they were “excited” that their music was being used in torture sessions and said that they were “honored” to be contributing to the war on terror. Nice one guys. Now, I am not saying that the torture is wrong or evil (I am also not saying it is good) – what I do think is wrong is to publicly state that you are “excited” about it.
Contributor: Xanthius












October 24th, 2008 at 2:30 am
You forgot one…
Soulja Boy anyone?
uuuuggghhh
October 24th, 2008 at 2:30 am
no thriller?
October 24th, 2008 at 2:34 am
Metallica – what a bunch of twats!! You call this torture?? I live across the road from a sports stadium that occasionally has music concerts – TWO HOURS OF CELINE DION!!!!! Now that’s torture!
October 24th, 2008 at 2:46 am
I could quite happily sit in a room listening to metallica at rediculously high volume levels for exceptionally long periods of time
Pretty crappy thing to say your excited your music is being used for torture though. I would think that I would be a bit offended actually :-S
October 24th, 2008 at 2:55 am
I already lost half my brain listening to # 10 – 2.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:00 am
How about the theme for The Magic Roundabout played constantly. You would lose your mind in no time. There is something very sinister about that song as described in this clip by one of my favorite comedians Bill Bailey!
October 24th, 2008 at 3:03 am
LOOOOOOOOOOL soulja boy would definately be torture
October 24th, 2008 at 3:05 am
Number 3 = SUPREME TORTURE
Seriously, should be number one. Scarred me for life.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:19 am
the meow mix sounds actually cute..
October 24th, 2008 at 3:21 am
It would make sense that Meow Mix would be there, ’cause the tune is WAY TOO CATCHY to not get stuck in your head… regardless of language.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:30 am
I was tortured with Elton John – Candle in the wind, albeit it was by an american marine but nowhere near iraq
October 24th, 2008 at 3:34 am
Soulja Boy is torture in and of itself – though, for some reason Koreans love it.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:41 am
When I was growing up Barney was on and I always hated it. I would litrally scream in rerror when if I turned to it by accident. For some reason I knew all of the songs and would sing them at elementary school, like when we were cleaning up I’d sing “Clean up, clean up, everybody do your share. Clean up, clean up.” And I would jus trandomly sings “I love you, you love me.” Just to be funny. P.S. Soulja Boy isn’t that bad. I can do the dance.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:58 am
Oh, good job Metallica. Way to improve your failing image.
Heh, Meow Mix… I always loved that song. Now, some real good torture would be that Peter Cottontail song you see on Toys R Us commercials around Easter. That one just makes your brain want to vomit.
Okay, Barney, do your torture thing!
October 24th, 2008 at 4:05 am
About RATM and torture. On June 1st I attended the Pinkpop festival here in the Netherlands & RATM (still a 1990s favourite of mine) performed. They walked onto the stage while an air alarm was blaring and then stood there – in orange coveralls and with black hoods on… Check it out here:
Don’t know if it was a reaction to the article mentioned above…
October 24th, 2008 at 4:06 am
Metallica is win.
’nuff said.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:14 am
No Celine? That’s a mystery.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:32 am
“Just when you thought Metallica couldn’t damage their reputation any further, the morons wrote to the State Department saying they were “excited” that their music was being used in torture sessions and said that they were “honored” to be contributing to the war on terror.”
Source on this please?
Article that states that Metallica aren’t “excited” about this:
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=104234
October 24th, 2008 at 4:35 am
Great. Now I’ll have the Meow Mix song in my head all day. Just the mention of it makes my brain go crazy.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Wha?!?! No BeeGee’s love? I don’t understand.
Personally, I would have thought Lee Greenwood’s “God Bless the USA” would have been a better choice than Neil’s song. They used to play that song every night at a little karaoke bar I used to go to and all the drunken rednecks would stand up and sing badly at the top of their lungs. *cringes* THAT was torture.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:32 am
Cher? Or does that go beyond torture?
October 24th, 2008 at 5:34 am
I always heard that “welcome to the jungle” by guns n’ roses was also a popular interrogation song.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:44 am
How about the theme song for Team America, terroist would love that blasting in their ears.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:44 am
There is another version of the Meow Mix lyrics that may be more popular (or maybe it is just my area).It goes like this.
I like chicken,
I like liver,
Meow Mix, Meow Mix,
Please deliver.
here is a youtube clip for those who have never seen a meow mix commercial
October 24th, 2008 at 5:46 am
Watch me crank that soulja boy then superman that ho!! Lol, I love it!!
October 24th, 2008 at 5:50 am
forced discomfort like making someone listen to loud annoying music is NOT torture. neither is waterboarding or any of the other methods that the hippies cry about all day long. it’s not torture until the ball peen hammer comes out and fingers and toes start getting bashed.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:52 am
torture = knowing people think their myspace and facebook pages are cool.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:19 am
True story – GI’s set up some mega speakers around the church where Noriega had holed up and played “I Fought the Law and the Law Won,” and Van Halen’s “Panama,” over and over and over again at a Spinal Tap volume 11 until he surrendered. Pretty funny shit!
And DAMN you for posting that shot of Barry Gibb. You have no idea what effect it has for a person who actually purchased The Bee Gees greatest hits. I spent years in therapy to rid myself of that plague. The voices in my head are revved up again and they’re at DefCon 2. They’re telling me that the rape monkeys are on their way and that bellbottoms look cool! YAARRHGHHGH!! LET ME OUT OF HERE!!
DAMN YOU!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 6:34 am
HAHAHA, Par: that is funny. Better uses for torture:
Lil Wayne
Lil Jon
Gilbert Godfried’s voice
Watching my US stock portfolio
Seeing the Philles knock in virtually no runs with men on third in the World Series, game 1 and 2
October 24th, 2008 at 6:43 am
is there another callie? That’s strange.
Callie’s unite!
October 24th, 2008 at 6:51 am
For some people, my recent pre-1750s choral music list would be torture. My sisters, who never came to my concerts, for example!
October 24th, 2008 at 6:56 am
this list is really disturbing. forcing people to listen to music may not directly be “torture” but the fact that the MPs are using it for that purpose. and a lot of their song choices are songs they know the “suspected terrorists” wouldn’t approve of because of their culture. whether or not the people are getting tortured during the songs or whatever the fuck else, it’s still incredibly demeaning and a total power play on the part of the fucking stupid MPs.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:00 am
I don’t know why but I think Janeane Garofalo is a freaking fox!!!Man I would do her for days!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 7:00 am
It’s a Small World after all. It’s a Small World after all. It’s a Small World after all. It’s a small, small world.
Now go on with your day and DON’T have that tune running thru your head.
/bwa-ha-ha-ha
October 24th, 2008 at 7:14 am
I think that there is a uncountable number of songs that would sound so alien and frightening that should fit better an interrogation room. Just thing at Metal Machine Music by Lou Reed! Or the heaviest tracks from FIXES by Nine Inch nails…
Aside from that, I’d say that torture is certainly bad and wrong (as much as Metallica).
If someone claims to fight for justice and freedom, torture is not one of his options.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:20 am
What about Lamp Chops song: “The song that never ends” That song is horrible
October 24th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Gilbert Gottfied – just imagining his voice makes my brain bleed. As for the Bee Gees – guess what you just encouraged me to download…
Joe R. I agree with you on her looks, but she’d have to agree to keep duct tape over the old pie hole. Talk about (her)speaking ruining the moment!!
October 24th, 2008 at 7:28 am
re: #1 its a thrash metal band. read the lyrical content. Heavy metal is all about torture and pain, regardless of the recipient. Rock on Metallica!!!!!!!!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Any Cannibal Corpse or average death or black metal song would probably work better than any of these songs when wanting to torture terrorists or make them feel uncomfortable.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:37 am
Cannibal Corpse roolz!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Gosh where to start? Great list. Interesting.
How sad is it that I watched the whole Christina video? I am not even sure why. Meow Mix defnitely gets stuck in your head. Kind of like “The Song That Doesn’t End” (watch clip at your own risk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0). I am not a huge fan of coutnry music, yet you seem to have picked one I knew and liked. Maybe I am a country music fan in the closet lol. I did not even click on the Barney clip. That would be pure torture. And yes I think Sarah Silverman would definitely be one that they could use.This would drive them nuts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qTXlNJj9s. I enjoy Janeane Garofalo.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Awww, My favorite luv song is being used for torture?
I’m speaking of the “meow meow meow meow meow” cat commercial.
Well, one person’s idea of love can be another person’s pain after all.
I’m guess I’m a softy when it comes to talking/singing animal commercials.
p.s. Seems like the forum topics are being milked for fodder.
p.p.s. I know I remember reading about American troops using, “Born In The USA”. Blasting from loud speakers attached to tanks.
That’s not only torture.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Go here for the Sarah Silverman clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qTXlNJj9s
The other had an extra . in it and won’t get you there.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Most of this list made me want to slit my wrists…. I love Metallica though and I like it loud!!
October 24th, 2008 at 7:54 am
No one is gonna mention that they used AC/DC to torture Manuel Noriega out of the vatican embassy?
October 24th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Garofalo is not Jewish. She’s Italian and Irish. Fact check much?
October 24th, 2008 at 8:04 am
“Apparently the band members have some integrity, because as soon as they found out their music was being used in this way, they wrote to the State Department and demanded that it cease immediately. Whether or not that happened is unknown, but good on them for standing up and speaking out.”
Who would thought it?!
October 24th, 2008 at 8:15 am
i love that the writer of this list used the word torture to describe the way american soldiers are ordered to treat people overseas.
tell that to most americans in charge, and they will vigorously deny that their methods are in violation with the rules of the geneva convention.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:18 am
I learn something new every day.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:27 am
I recently read that the “music” of Deicide was “The number one torture hit in Iraq” according to a somewhat recent article
http://www.metalstorm.ee/events/news_comments.php?news_id=6097&page=1&message_id=
October 24th, 2008 at 8:28 am
In my opinion, this is not torture, this may be qualified as extreme annoyance, but torture? No.
The people (and I use the word in it’s loosest sense) who were behind, and/or supported the (people) who were behind the attacks on 9/11 *deserve* to be treated in whatever manner (observing the Geneva Conventions) required to gain information leading us to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.
Yes, that some of these prisoners *may* be innocent disturbs me. It doesn’t disturb me sufficiently to glean carefully through the prisoners to find the few innocents when more than 3000 innocents were brutally killed in the 9/11 attacks.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:39 am
loseitbonkers,
I would like to know specifically what article of the Genevea Convention is being violated with using music as an interrogation technique?
As one of those American Soldiers who is apparently ordered to torture, I want to know exactly what article of the convention using to music to interrogate is violating, so I can avoid following an illegal order.
Before you start painting us all as war criminals, I want to see some documentation or some legal precedent.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:50 am
For the most part these aren’t that bad, except maybe Metallica due to the hard beats that would make your ears bleed if played loud enough
Music taste aside, if they really want to torture people they should play loud dance/house/techno music, the repetitive beats and ear-bleeding poor melody would drive them insane
October 24th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Listening to some of these songs would make ME hate America…not sure that’s the point of the torture…
October 24th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Seque: It doesn’t bother you enough that innocents are being tortured? Shame on you. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, “You either believe in basic human rights or you don’t”.
I guess you don’t. Being suspected of terrorism is a far cry from being a terrorist. Don’t believe me? Ask the Canadian citizen who was kidnapped and sent to Gitmo.
I haven’t even touched on the fact that torture, mental or physical, does not provide information that is trustworthy. As Jamie stated “Forced to listen to the Gibb brothers for hours on end would make me confess to absolutely anything.” That is actually a true fact – remember the repetitive music is just the first part of “interrogation”. The tip of the iceberg.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:07 am
The Oompa-Loompa songs FTW… friggin creepy little orange bastards haunt my dreams
October 24th, 2008 at 9:19 am
If it’s not already been done, the torture of terror suspects (necassary or not?) would be a good topic for your view.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Janeane Garofalo is on the list? But I thought she LOVED our enemies. She says so whenever she’s on Bill Maher’s show. Still, she’s torture for ME to listen to. Christina Aguilera? Metallica? Yeah, those would be torture even at normal volumne for just a short time.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:32 am
No way, there is no problem with freely expressing that you condone the use of your music for torture of anti-American murderers.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:39 am
I am all about people having rights and I think its wrong to torture others. However, as a method for interrogation, sometimes the only way we can get information out of a person that will save other people from extreme harm or death, it is necessary to use torture to get that information. The utilitarian in me says, sacrifice the rights of that individual for the benefit of the whole (i.e. other people being more than just one person).
October 24th, 2008 at 9:48 am
I kissed a girl.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Jayme – The Song Doesn’t End is *DEFINITELY* torture. Like Chinese water torture… Just keeps wearing you down till you’re a small pile of nothing. (Yeah, I don’t know how you could be a pile and be nothing – but it works, so shush!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0
This is the song that doesn’t end,
It just goes on and on my friend!
Some people started singing it
Not knowing what it was,
And they’ll continue singing it forever just because
This is the song that doesn’t end…
…Why did I do that to myself???…
October 24th, 2008 at 10:11 am
zakidd – Yeah, I Kissed a Girl would definitely go against morals and such. Good thinking there…
October 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am
“American rap cum rock group” Why is the word “cum” in there?
October 24th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I was referring to the description for Rage Against The Machine btw
October 24th, 2008 at 10:27 am
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, “You either believe in basic human rights or you don’t”.
Mom – right on!
October 24th, 2008 at 10:30 am
64. Um, “cum” is Latin for “with”. So he’s being fancy and saying they rock and rap. “Cum laude” = “with praises/honors”.
Nice list. I feel that ANY song, when played in repetition and at high volume, is torture. One drop of water is fine but you take enough of those drops and you have water torture.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:40 am
I would like to know specifically what article of the Geneva Convention is being violated with using music as an interrogation technique?
Mr Plow. : Geneva Convention – Third Protocol
Article 17: “No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.”
October 24th, 2008 at 10:46 am
When I hear the song “Tiny Bubbles,” even once, it makes me want to off myself. This would be tops on my list.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:00 am
I actually would consider ‘Enter Sandman’ as torture. Anything from the Black Album and after is absolutely not worth listening to, with the exception of the second disc of ‘Garage Inc.’
And yes, I heard the new stuff. It’s still not ‘Ride the Lightning.’
Great list. Thanks.
PS- Go ahead and torure ‘em. 1)They’d do it to us. 2)If you want the “true believers” to talk, there’s no better method than either A)soaking their feet in gasoline, or B)stacking them in a naked pyramid.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Ouwh sh*t. Hmmmn, I believe that the guys who experienced this kindov torture developed a psychopathic grudge and malice against these “artists.” And I bet if ever these guys got out in the open, the first thing they’re gonna do is hunt ‘em and give ‘em the demonstration of what is the epitome of hatred. BARNEY SYMPATHIZERS, BEWARE. Harhar
October 24th, 2008 at 11:12 am
I don’t know, that’s pretty metal that Metallica approves of their songs as torture devices.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:12 am
to those who endorse torture to get informations…
please think about this: in YOUR eyes, precious informations MUST be obtained to all cost, to save lives. Should this allow you to torture someone?
tell me the different from this other idea: terrorists MUST stop America to do what it is doing, to all cost, to save lives. Should this allow them to play kamikaze?
the fact that in YOUR eyes, you are doing the goods and they are the bad guys, is all you have to justify torture.
well, this is exactly THEIR point of view. They think you are the bad guys and this is the excuse to blow themselves up, drive planes into buildings and so on.
The Geneva Conventions was made for this: set a minumum level of dignity that all human beings should never cross. Any nation that violates it, is the “bad guy”. period.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Hmmn, I also believe that yes, for some they could just be mere annoying sounds or ineffective ministrations of torture. Yet, there’s always the possibility that it can twist the minds of others into submission. Also, a scenario like this could happen:
A terrorist was caught, put under this kind of treatment, then for several days and nights, he can’t take it anymore. If he/she is fanatically and morally dedicated to his/her group’s cause, suicide would be his/her only way out. On the other hand, if he/she is weak, he/she can just go and confess.
Bottomline is, everyone has their own framework of psyche, nature and mind. Thus, it’s really up to the one who’s under this kindov strain on how he/she will adapt and deal with it.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Metalwrath: I am a HUGE Death Metal fan and I like this list better. This one has been known for a while. I think Deicide kills Metallica on a list like this.
The top 10 – click links to watch the music video:
1. Fuck Your God – Deicide
2. Die MF Die – Dope
3. Take Your Best Shot – Dope
4. White America – Eminem
5. Kim – Eminem
6. Barney Theme Song – Barney the Dinosaur
7. Bodies – Drowning Pool
8. Enter Sandman – Metallica
9. Meow Mix TV Commercial – Meow Meow Meow
10. Sesame Street TV Theme
October 24th, 2008 at 11:25 am
kiwiboi, aren’t you interpretting Article 17 pretty liberally (pun intended)? What is to stop a war prisoner from claiming that questioning of a prisoner is in itself unpleasant, and therefore a violation of the Geneva Convention? Does the very common police procedure (at least in the US) of giving someone as much as they want to drink while questioning, but not giving them an immediate bathroom break if still in questioning and the need arrises qualify? If so, good thing for the cops that the Geneva Convention only applies to prisoners of war…
October 24th, 2008 at 11:30 am
kiwiboi,
The convention also creates criteria concerning who is in fact, a legal enemy combatant, and therefore subject to Third Geneva Convention protection. The majority of US detainees are not subject to Geneva protection. Article 17, Third Geneva Convention applies to POWs and only POWs.
Most prisoners do have protection because they were civilians who took up arms in direct engagement with a nation, and therefore subject to said nation’s laws.
Loud repetitive music is cited as ’stress and duress’ and not torture under US law and policy.
Now, is the line between stress/duress and torture blurry and sometimes abuse…absolutely. Does this bother me, absolutely. As our law reads, stress and duress interrogation techniques are legal under the US law and the UCMJ, at least for now. Personally, would I like to see this change, yes.
I won’t allow all Soldiers to be painted as war criminals for doing something that is legal (however shady) under our own law.
Once again, i’d like to state that our current interrogation techniques and the policy governing these practices is something that does not in any way, shape, or form, sit well with me.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Nik-a-Dik, we don’t want to KILL them… just make them talk through blubbering drool and tears. Ohm-num-shabai!
October 24th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I love how people still use the Geneva Convention as some type of holy book that can never be questioned. The Geneva Convention was written down well before people started covering themselves in nails and TNT and running into croweded markets, or flying airplanes into building.
As a member of the military, I have to follow the Geneva Convention, but my enemies DO NOT. Since kiwiboi seems to love our noble enemies so much, maybe he should google some footage of Americans getting their head cut off for propagana. Thats a little stressful for our troops isn’t it?
Get off your tower and get back into the real world. This isn’t the war of 1812, we don’t have parlays before battles and enemies don’t wear uniforms. The tactics need to be adjusted to save lives. I agree we can’t descend to the level of a terrorist, but we do need to be more agressive than “Please would you tell me where the next car bomb is going off”
October 24th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Anything from High School Musical has great torture potential.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Without getting too deep into the topic, I would like to add that torture – for whatever reason, let me stress that, WHATEVER reason is wrong. Yes, even to gain information, yes even to protect the innocent, and yes even if they really really deserve it.
But on a lighter note, I was once forced to listen to country music on a road trip from New York to Las Vegas, and if I’m ever forced to go through that again I just might change my mind.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Torturing bag guys and gals is like making laws & sausages it aint pretty but the end result is usually fairly pleasant.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Also i love this list good job Xanthius !
October 24th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I would like to have my three added on as well, someone call the state dept!!!
Snap Your Fingers, Snap Your Neck- Prong
Fucking Hostile- Pantera
Pride of America- Saliva
Yay Yay USA!!
October 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
The convention also creates criteria concerning who is in fact, a legal enemy combatant, and therefore subject to Third Geneva Convention protection. The majority of US detainees are not subject to Geneva protection. Article 17, Third Geneva Convention applies to POWs and only POWs.
Mr Plow – a good point, and one that the US authorities have, on more than one occasion necessarily asserted. Article 4, however, states that individuals detained even as suspected militia members (which includes the Taliban) or a volunteer corps (which includes al Qaeda) must be regarded as prisoners of war.
And, in case there is any doubt, there is also Article 5 : “Should any doubt arise whether persons, having committed a belligerent act…” is a prisoner of war “…such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.”
Most prisoners do have protection because they were civilians who took up arms in direct engagement with a nation, and therefore subject to said nation’s laws.
I’m not a lawyer, and this one doesn’t make sense to me. Are you able to quote your source/authority? In any case, would this hold in the event of an illegal invasion/occupation? (and, there is – as I’m sure you know – no doubt amongst authoritative International Jurists that the invasion of Iraq was illegal).
Loud repetitive music is cited as ’stress and duress’ and not torture under US law and policy.
Even if this is the case (and I do not doubt you), the fact remains that “stress and duress” fall easily within Article 17 (which I quoted earlier…the “unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment” part), and would therefore still be a breach of the Conventions.
Now, is the line between stress/duress and torture blurry and sometimes abuse…absolutely. Does this bother me, absolutely. As our law reads, stress and duress interrogation techniques are legal under the US law and the UCMJ, at least for now. Personally, would I like to see this change, yes.
Fair enough. But I would argue that, excepting the most extreme circumstances, there should be absolutely no “stress or duress” whatsoever.
I won’t allow all Soldiers to be painted as war criminals for doing something that is legal (however shady) under our own law.
“War criminals” is maybe too emotive and a little strong, I think. But, as a matter of principle, I would support the precedence of International Law over domestic law when it comes to international affairs; otherwise a belligerent nation could legalise all manner of self-serving misbehaviour. Remember, too, the US itself decided to be a signatory to the Conventions.
Once again, i’d like to state that our current interrogation techniques and the policy governing these practices is something that does not in any way, shape, or form, sit well with me.
I’m guessing that you are not alone. It’s particularly sad to learn about the disgraceful events such as Abu Ghraib when it is clear that the vast majority of the occupying US (and other) military forces are decent people trying to do the right thing.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I kinda agree with seque and I kinda agree with mom. I will say this, playing loud music isn’t torture. If it is then every 16 year old girl is torturing herself on her way home from school. I, however, do care when innocents are being held at gitmo and think by now there should be enough information on the people there to distinguish between terrorist and not. And I don’t agree with torturing people but I also don’t agree with opening the door’s of gitmo and letting all the people out. Many of “we the people” think that our government is entirely without intelligence. Sometimes even I have to wonder, but I can promise you this, most of the people in gitmo would just as soon shoot you in the head as have a conversation with you. Even if you do argue for their rights, which is noble, they still look at you as the enemy and evil. There’s just no reasoning with these guys.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Several hours of non-stop rickrolling should break them down.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
This might be the most interesting and bizarre list that I have read on this site. Great job, Xanthius! Very insightful.
I was thinking about a few others that I almost expected to see on this list. Amongst them, MZ 412 and Stalaggh. I am deeply involved with heavy metal and all of the ridiculously named sub-sub-genres, but the above mentioned bands are really disturbing (even for me) especially when played at high levels of volume with lots of bass.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Oh just in case anyone has heard of or looks up some songs by MZ 412 or Stalaggh they are not technically metal. The bands are more like industrial/noise bands that use sounds to create a very melancholy atmosphere, suitable for the subject at hand.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
amen.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
I just had a thought. If women remaining modest is deeply valued by Muslims, which I beleive it is, would taking Muslim POW’s to a “gentleman’s club” for a lap dance be considered torture? I sure can see the situation “stressing them out” – well a part of their bodies anyway. Oh, the horror!!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
And imagine if the dancer was dancing to Metallica!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I love how people still use the Geneva Convention as some type of holy book that can never be questioned.
So who twisted the arms of the nations who voluntarily drafted and signed up to the Conventions?
The Geneva Convention was written down well before people started covering themselves in nails and TNT and running into croweded markets, or flying airplanes into building.
And these were acts perpetrated by terrorists…not military forces; so your point is, in any event, irrelevant.
As a member of the military, I have to follow the Geneva Convention, but my enemies DO NOT.
Your “enemies”? You mean the Iraqis whose country was invaded illegally on the basis of non-existent weapons of mass destruction? And who had nothing to do with 9/11? And whose nation was invaded while Bin Laden was smoking a cigar, laughing at the incompetence of Bush and Blair, and casually riding his goat into the hills of Afghanistan?
Since kiwiboi seems to love our noble enemies so much, maybe he should google some footage of Americans getting their head cut off for propagana. Thats a little stressful for our troops isn’t it?
This comment is beneath contempt. Show me exactly where I have indicated that I “love” your enemies. Go ahead…I’m eagerly awaiting your response.
Get off your tower and get back into the real world. This isn’t the war of 1812, we don’t have parlays before battles and enemies don’t wear uniforms. The tactics need to be adjusted to save lives. I agree we can’t descend to the level of a terrorist, but we do need to be more agressive than “Please would you tell me where the next car bomb is going off”
And, gee, hasn’t the Gitmo torture and “extraordinary rendition” really paid off. Hundreds of innocent people extradited, tortured and imprisoned. But that’s ok…they must all have been involved in 9/11. And, after all…they helped us catch Bin Laden..oh, wait…!!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Kiwi,
You need to give me something more specific than ‘US authorities’ because unless they are the President or a CIA director, they have no authority to make official statements of policy. Granted, they may be giving their interpretation of the law or their own personal opinion…either way, they are not and should not be taken as official statement of US policy or law.
In regards to your Article 5 point, you are forgetting that military tribunals have been established to address that very point. The detainees we are discussing have been in fact declared non-combatants and therefore, the Geneva protocol you are citing are not applicable to them.
As for the illegal war comment, under US law, OIF/OEF are in fact a legal actions. The international community, only has a limited amount of power, and certainly has no jurisdictional claim over a sovereign US. There is no legal precedent to back up any legal action by an international court anyway.
You can find justification for ’stress and duress’ in the ‘torture memos’ prepared by John C Yoo. If you want to find some more information on it, the ALCU has the full text.
Again, with article 17, these would not apply to the detainees in question as they are ‘non combatants.’
And to address the issue of international law, while there is such thing as international law, being a sovereign nation with a constitution, no international law has claim over US law. Of course, many times our law in in concert with international law.
Most nations would see international law implemented in their country as a serious violation of their sovereignty.
I assume from your name you are from NZ…if you favor the influence of international law over NZ’z own law…would you have a problem with politicians from the US, or China, or Russian, or Iran, or an international tribunal being able to make law within your own country?
Thanks for the civil tone of your reply, I wish more would follow your lead on other websites!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I will say this, playing loud music isn’t torture.
Brosiusjb – so why do it? Besides, if it a sleep-deprivation technique then it most definitely is torture.
but I can promise you this, most of the people in gitmo would just as soon shoot you in the head as have a conversation with you. Even if you do argue for their rights, which is noble, they still look at you as the enemy and evil.
Huh? On what basis, specifically, are you able to make this bold (and, frankly, ludicrous) claim?
October 24th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
enter sandmans not a bad song. its just used probably because its about sleeping, and the terrorists are very tired
October 24th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
55. Mom424: Seque: It doesn’t bother you enough that innocents are being tortured? Shame on you. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, “You either believe in basic human rights or you don’t”.
****
And where were the human rights of the 3000+ innocent people who died because of the attacks on 9/11?
I believe passionately in their human rights.
Too bad they aren’t around to enjoy them.
Ohhhh, but maybe if we knit nice stockings for the detainees, get them some chocolates and give them bus money home, those 3000+ people will just spring back to life!
Or maybe you have access to a Way-Back-O-Meter, and we can dial in 9-10-01, warn everyone, so no one gets on those planes, or goes to work, and the CIA can be standing by at the airports, ready to arrest the terrorists, so all of this is just a philosophical discussion, with no lives on the line, no one’s freedom in question.
Wouldn’t that be nice?
October 24th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Haha I would be excited to if I knew people were using my music to torture others. I wouldnt feel bad at all because, comeon, listening to music you hate is not torture. I dont care how much the person hates the music, it is not torture. They should play some metal!! Put in some cannibal corpse or some oldskool burn the priest.
October 24th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
“metallica couldnt damage their reputation any further?”
what are you talking about my good sir
October 24th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
You need to give me something more specific than ‘US authorities’ because unless they are the President or a CIA director, they have no authority to make official statements of policy. Granted, they may be giving their interpretation of the law or their own personal opinion…either way, they are not and should not be taken as official statement of US policy or law.
Mr Plow – I was specifically referring to Rumsfield and (from memory) Bush.
In regards to your Article 5 point, you are forgetting that military tribunals have been established to address that very point. The detainees we are discussing have been in fact declared non-combatants
Forgive my cynicism, but were these tribunals not in the main comprised of US Military officials? The instances I am familiar with certainly were.
and therefore, the Geneva protocol you are citing are not applicable to them.
Which justifies the use of torture? Or treatment not at least consistent with the spirit of the Conventions (eg. renditions for the purpose of sub-contracting torture to 3rd party nations)?
As for the illegal war comment, under US law, OIF/OEF are in fact a legal actions. The international community, only has a limited amount of power, and certainly has no jurisdictional claim over a sovereign US. There is no legal precedent to back up any legal action by an international court anyway.
I think that the legal/illegal point will forever remain moot. Let me say, though, that the International Commission of International Law Jurists (probably the most authoritative body on international law) explicitly stated :
(1) that it would be blatantly illegal under international law for the Anglo-American belligerents to invade Iraq; and (2) that their joint decision as Commanders-in-Chief to commence hostilities would constitute prosecutable war crimes.
Read about it here : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6917.htm
You can find justification for ’stress and duress’ in the ‘torture memos’ prepared by John C Yoo. If you want to find some more information on it, the ALCU has the full text.
Excuse me again, but I am unable to afford any credibility to Yoo. Actually, I’m surprised you cite him at all – he is widely discredited. Indeed, the Department of Justice promptly backtracked on Yoo’s bizarre “torture memos” (and I haven’t even mentioned the real potential for Yoo being subject to prosecution under international criminal law).
And to address the issue of international law, while there is such thing as international law, being a sovereign nation with a constitution, no international law has claim over US law. Of course, many times our law in in concert with international law.
It does outside of US territory. And it also raises some interesting questions; e.g. notwithstanding International Law, torture (including waterboarding) still qualifies a US criminal felony.
Most nations would see international law implemented in their country as a serious violation of their sovereignty.
Some might. But not those who participate in its drafting or who accept the supposedly universal principles that such law represents.
I assume from your name you are from NZ
Yes, I’m a NZ’er. But I have lived in Britain for some years now.
Thanks for the civil tone of your reply
You too. On a topic like this we are not going to change each other’s views, so it might as well remain pleasant.
October 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I want tuna
I want chicken
I want liver
Please deliver
Meow meow meow meow
Meow meow meow meow
October 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Ohhhh, but maybe if we knit nice stockings for the detainees, get them some chocolates and give them bus money home, those 3000+ people will just spring back to life!
segue – you surprise me. Let’s talk again when one of your family is an innocent detainee.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
One of my good friends was a passenger on the first plane to plow into the WTC.
Care to talk?
October 24th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
“I assume from your name you are from NZ…if you favor the influence of international law over NZ’z own law…would you have a problem with politicians from the US, or China, or Russian, or Iran, or an international tribunal being able to make law within your own country?”
MrPlow – just quickly as I have to go to work – surely going into Iraq and toppling their government and installing one of the US’s own creation is akin to this, though? I guess what I’m saying is, that it looks to me (I’m an Aussie) like it’s OK for the US to do it, because they’re right, but it wouldn’t be ok for others to do it.
I haven’t read your previous comments so I may have misinterpreted what you said here, so I apologise if that’s the case – like I said, I need to go to work, so I’m skim reading at the moment!
October 24th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
onwisconsn (37)
Gilbert Gottfried has the same effect on me. He once was a voice in a cartoon. I couldn’t even watch it. I cannot tand that guy in any incarnation.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
One of my good friends was a passenger on the first plane to plow into the WTC. Care to talk?
So, how many innocent people do you want tortured to compensate? Do you prefer waterboarding? or perhaps a nice rendition to those efficient CIA-favoured Turkish or Egyptian torturers?
Again…let’s talk when one of your family is wearing the orange coveralls.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
yeah soulja boy is… wow lol i hate his music. i guess music that is foreign to criminals would be annoying. teletubies to.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
segue (103) I am so very sorry for the loss of your friend. There is nothing else to say. A death like that in which there is absolutely no way to say “goodbye, I love you” one last time I think has to be the most traumatic and hard to accept.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I thought the Geneva Convention banned this kind of torture!
October 24th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
106. kiwiboi: They aren’t being tortured. If they were, I’d be outraged. They aren’t. I’m not. The end.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Okay Barney and Meow Mix would work on me.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
What about The Howard Stern Show? It worked on Noriega haha.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I don’t get how Metallica “damaged their reputation”. As far as I’m concerned, them saying they were excited about their music being used in interrogation makes them kick more ass than they already do!
October 24th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
well listening to enter sandman is torture, trust me on this, granted im a big metallica fan i just hate that song
October 24th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Really arkz? I love that song.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Just out of curiosity, since a forum on a website with top 10 lists is no place for this, but kiwiboi, what do you think the appropriate response to 9/11 should have been?
And just to really piss of some people who always bring this up:
If the US did have evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after the invasion, and it turned out that it was being developed and researched by one of our closest allies and a few of a newest allies, do you think they would bring it to light, or just take one on the chin and say “Opps we never found anything?”
Saddam gassed his own people with chemical weapons during the iraq/iran conflict. Do you think that he got bored with VX gas and decided to flush it all down the toilet?
Don’t believe everything you read in the new york times.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
I think that any any buddy holly song would be creepy
October 24th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Just out of curiosity, since a forum on a website with top 10 lists is no place for this, but kiwiboi, what do you think the appropriate response to 9/11 should have been?
Bringing the perpetrators to justice would be a good start. Which takes Iraq out of the equation to begin with.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
So putting Hitler in jail would have been a reasonable response to the invasion of Poland by your reasoning? So he could sit in a jail and provide motivation for an entire nation of Nazis to keep fighting?
You can’t respond to an attack like 9/11 with a few people in jail. Iraq is a different matter all together. As far as I’m concerned, if W came out and said he was just cleaning up the mess his dad left that would be fine by me. We should have ended it then and there.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
no beyonce or anyone else from that genre. now that is TORTURE !!!!!!!!!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
So putting Hitler in jail would have been a reasonable response to the invasion of Poland by your reasoning?
Who mentioned jail? And are you seriously comparing a mobilised state military machine with a global network of terrorist cells? More to the point…you are disagreeing that justice should have been meted out to the 9/11 perpetrators? Strange…
And whatever the appropriate response to 9/11 should have been…invading Iraq was not it.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
just being in the same room as a friggin american would be torture enough
October 24th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I am beginning to feel being tortured by some self-centered comments here.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Segue: Certainly I would care to talk. Your natural anger and need for retribution and punishment to those responsible for 9/11 is entirely why society has rules. The problem isn’t that you are treating those responsible poorly, it is that the American’s are punishing those suspected of terrorism. Not those convicted. I haven’t even touched on the reprehensible policy of rendition. (Bill Clinton’s baby btw)
And how dare you say they aren’t being tortured. Do you not know that torture does not have to involve generators and pliers? Waterboarding is torture, sleep deprivation and sensory deprivation caused by continuous playing of loud cacophonous noise is torture. Like I said, you have little respect for human rights, unless of course they look and think like you. Sound at all familiar?
Mr. Plow: You quote Yoo, as justification for anything? There goes the rest of your argument. Justifying poor behavior by resorting to semantics and legality smacks as excuse making. Again I see a different set of standards for those who aren’t you. Hmmmm, I think I might have noticed something similar elsewhere, fairly recently.
Kiwiboi: Thank you for your learned replies to this foolishness. Common sense and the moral high ground will only get me so far.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Just for comic fucking relief:
The Gilbert Gottfried Doubled Parallax Syndrome(GGDPS):
Just imagine being captured by allied forces and hooded and dragged and seated in the back of some cargo vehicle. Allright?
You think “o.k., maybe they are just going to drop me off outside their domain, their territory, their hood, and let me go with a few bucks in my pocket and bid me farewell.” …Yeh right.
Sometime later, after a terribly rocky ride, you are led into a cold room with a forty watt bulb hanging low and the smell of excrement in the already acrid air.
You are pushed down into a chair and secured to a pipe sticking out of the wall behind your back. You seem to be “roughed up” a bit, with a couple of blows to the head and gut.The hood is removed and you spit blood, and look up / find yourself alone shaking. Your eye swollen and sight blurrified. After you almost get your breath back, droolingly, you notice one thing peculiar in the small 12×18 “cell”. Over in the dark left side corner before you, is a figure standing still.
” Just like a movie I shall escape this ridiculous situation I have found myself in!” you find yourself thinking.
It moves slowly forward into the light .
The 40 watt circle seems to expand, but stays the same. The light seems to moves up to the face.
“No. It Can’t be….Is it?”
It is.
“Gi-gi-Gilbert Godfreed?!?”
A shutter wacks up through and through.
“IT’S GOTTFRIED!” he says
AND HE’s NOT SMILING.
Suddenly a loud crackle ricochetes off the walls.
Your head instinctivly darts in the direction above and you see the latest, fattest, and just downright super cool, concave supersonic speaker (sorry Woody N., I’m just foolin), right above your head. its the best of the best and can focus the sound waves into a thin beam, directed only within the spot you happen to be….The crackle skips and the your eardrums start tearing away,
” Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow, meow meow, meow meow!”
Gilbert walks slowly. He starts his “delivery skit”,
“Have you ever wondered that I would ever be paid to do this kinda shit? Forget those hose quickie duck commercials! AFLEK AFLEK AFLEK! Sounds like a kitty kat coffin up hair balls!..AFLEK! AFLEK!”
“Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow!”
October 24th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
p.s.
my apologies Meow Mix, you know I LLLUUVVV you.
Gottfried. Any time any where.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
wouldn’t an airhorn suffice?
October 24th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
I think whatever current fad song that is “popular” on the radio at the time, is a perfect torture song
October 24th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
MOM…hey…settle down a little bit.
If you would read my earlier posts:
“Once again, i’d like to state that our current interrogation techniques and the policy governing these practices is something that does not in any way, shape, or form, sit well with me.”
So before you brand me some racist, apologist, torture loving, neocon, why don’t you bring yourself up to speed on the conversation.
It’s that knee jerk crap that makes these discussions get out of hand.
I am not trying to justify torture or OIF…I am simply giving you legal framework in which the US has used to justify interrogation SOP.
Yoo was one of a few legal experts employed by the USDOJ’s Office of Legal Counsel that helped pen what later became known as the ‘torture memos.’ Even though YOU may find his work discredited the US government does not, as a lot of the legal ‘cover your butt’ memos he helped pen are still in place.
Does my somehow posting this constitute my approval of torture?
I ask you to find one instance where I am defending torture in anything I have posted today…i’ve gone out of my way to state that I am not happy with the US position on what is and is not torture.
Call off your effin’ dogs, you’re no better than anyone else here.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
No Celine Dion? WTF?! Just thinking of her makes me want to punch a puppy!
October 24th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
I kinda wonder what the terrorists would think about listening to the theme-song from Team America. Or just, you know, watching the movie.
Also, whoever thought Metallica was a good choice for torturing people deserves to have headphones glued to their ears and be forced to listen to Celine Dion on max volume for the rest of their lives.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Since I can’t edit…
I think it’s funny that a lot of people are mentioning Celine Dion in here.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Mr Plow (94)
The detainees we are discussing have been in fact declared non-combatants and therefore, the Geneva protocol you are citing are not applicable to them.
Two points that puzzle me with this apparent state of affairs.
1. If they are Non Combatants why are they being detained? If they are not Combatants and are not *innocent* non combatants then what exactly is their legal position?
2. It is illegal to torture Combatants but legal to torture Non Combatants. Is it only me that sees that as an illogical and even ludicrous situation.
Cheers
Lee
October 24th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
“rap cum rock group”
Wut? Cum?
October 24th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
get your mind out of the gutter Wut^^^ lol
October 24th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
wut: it is Latin – it means “with” – in this sense it means “rap with rock” or – rap and rock
October 24th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Are you N.Z.guys telling me you would not do everything in your power up into and including playing loud and annoying music in order to find out and punish the people who bombed and killed 3000 citizens and caused unbelievable destruction to your largest city ? P.S. Im a democrat.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Referring to anything on this list as “torture” is an insult to actual victims of torture all around the world.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
even though i don’t consider loud music to be ‘torture’, they’re clearly using it to annoy prisoners which i think is pretty immature whether they expect to get information or not. at the same time, terrorists have done much worse things to our pows than playing the bee gees, but regardless i don’t think we should use our enemy’s bad behavior to justify our own no matter how watered down our version may be. the USA has always tried to convey an image of treating people fairly and urging other countries to implement laws protecting human rights. we outlawed torture because physical or mental duress will make anyone confess to anything. this was proven during the salem witch trials and the inqusition so i don’t see why we decided to sweep all that under the rug because we left our borders and the people we captured weren’t americans. our domestic terrorists have gotten the same rights as our petty criminals; so what’s the difference in giving those rights to a non-american terrorist? if anything we view our own countrymen attacking us as much worse than a foreigner doing it. we did go into iraq under false pretenses. i think it’s silly some of you don’t want to admit our president lied to us. if he did admit he was just cleaning up his daddy’s mess then he should be punished accordingly for the laws he broke and the mess he made. as an american i don’t know why we must constantly act as if we have to police the world. i’m sure someone will say i’m unamerican for this comment, but who the hell is policing us? y’all act if if Kiwi is a terrorist sympathizer just because he/she has the guts to play devil’s advocate and not blindly believe that everything to USA does is right just because we say it is. the bush administration used 9/11 to tug at our heart strings and make everyone believe that if you didn’t support everything our government does that you must be anti-american, you’re one of ‘them’, you don’t support our troops or you don’t care that 3,000 people died for no good reason. no one denies that terrorists are wrong in attacking others just because they don’t approve of their way of life, but that doesn’t give us the right topple another country’s government and economy because we ‘think’ they’re up to no good especially when they didn’t even have anything to do with the attacks. i’m not saying they weren’t a viable enemy, but we can’t expect others to follow international laws if we won’t even do it ourselves.
October 25th, 2008 at 12:31 am
I have commented on these lists quite a few times, and I never get any feedback or responses. I’m not bitching or anything, but nobody responded to the real govt torture list with ‘Deicide – Fuck You God’ as the number one song. That list has been out for a while. I love Death Metal, but it seems everyone is afraid to acknowledge it. It is okay. Death and demons consume everyone til they die.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:09 am
i wonder if glen benton knows about it. now, he would be proud.
October 25th, 2008 at 2:58 am
I HATE BARNEY!!!!!!!! I`m gonna have nightmares ,damn U BARNEY
October 25th, 2008 at 4:12 am
1,000,000 green bottles sitting on a wall…
etc.
October 25th, 2008 at 4:23 am
Metallica are a true shower of wankers.
October 25th, 2008 at 6:19 am
to all americans that think that torturing someone Iraqi insurgent is ok to obtain precious informations:
let me summariza in a few words what happened:
1)some bad guys, leaded by a crazy towelhead living in Afghanistan killed 3000 innocents in NY.
2) in retaliation, USA went to Afghanistan and killed over 3500 civilians along with 8000 soldiers
this, in my opinion, was well above tolerable, but, whatever..
3) unhappy with Afghanistan, USA decided that it was a nice idea to attack Iraq (the only mid-east country where religious fanaticals weren’t at the power and terrorists where unknown). In this smart move, almost 650.000 civilians were killed along with 30.000 soldiers.
sticking to numbers: the Nazis killed 10 innocent civilians for every german soldier, in retaliation. I see that USA went FAR above this 1 to 10 ratio.
nevertheless, I still see a lot of people that can’t see this madness.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:14 am
I love enter sandman by metallica its a good song
October 25th, 2008 at 7:19 am
You know, if I had the talent to produce music, I would be honored if it were used to help in the defense of this country. American torture is so much nicer than any of the other countries. I think our society has become so weak as to think parading a bunch of insurgents around naked is such an unspeakable horror. Our military uses far worse on our own men to aid them in case they are ever captured. Anyway, stop being so weak and be willing to cut a few branches to help the American tree to thrive.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Lee,
According to the US interpretation of the 4th Geneva Convention, the detainees are considered ‘unlawful combatants’ (as opposed to non combatants.)
With the ‘unlawful combatant’ status, detainees are not given the same protection that POWs have under the 3rd Geneva Convention. Instead, they are subject to the laws of whatever nation has detained them.
In the US, these detainees under law are not afforded the same constitutional protection under law that it’s citizens are given…instead they are in a gray limbo legally weird area…and yes, are subjected to what the Yoo’s ‘torture memos’ would consider ’stress and duress’.
What the US is doing, is legal, barely. All it takes is a couple of court rulings to change what is going on right now.
Now before Mom jumps down my throat again accusing me of being some torture loving sadist…let me say that I am in no way approving of the US’s current stance on what is and is not torture, and in no way endorse many of our interrogation methods.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:29 am
damn, Suskis! way to put it all into perspective by showing the casualties on both sides. i don’t think people want to see the madness. based on the usa’s history of fighting evil such as nazis, commies, and the japanese who bombed us first; we’re used to being right and everyone else being wrong. nobody wants to admit we fucked up big time, especially the government and anytime someone wants to question them, they’re just gonna say something about 9/11. anyone see that episode of family guy where lois was running for mayor and instead of talking about the issues, she just kept mentioning terrorists and 9/11 and the people kept cheering for her? i think that’s a pretty fair representation of what’s really going.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:18 am
I was kind of hoping to see “Stuck In the Middle With You” on here just because of that scene in Reservoir Dogs. It is a great song though.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Mr. Plow: By justifying the behavior you are in fact condoning it. Legality and morality are often mutually exclusive; after all it was quite legal to own slaves not that long ago. If you are truly disturbed by something or disapprove of something, one doesn’t generally look for a loop-hole to allow that same behaviour. Thus my ire.
Generally I try not to be quite so self-righteous; I have too many personal faults for that to fly; but in this particular instance I have no problem wrapping myself in that cloak. There is no justification for that type of behavior. None. Ever. It is what makes us the good guys.
October 25th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Interesting;
Music that millions of people will willingly pay to listen to is considered torture.
Then again, I suppose there are those who enjoy having their nails pulled out or having large blunt objects thrust into bodily orifices. Some people have even agreed to be waterboarded.
Still, true torture is something that injures, maims, or kills.
October 25th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
You said, ‘Janeane Garofalo is a powerful Jewish American woman …’
And WIkipedia has this to say about her ‘Garofalo is of Italian and Irish descent.’ I bet I am not the only one confused.
October 25th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Mr Plow,
Thank You for your answer, though I must confess the idea of Lawful and Unlawful Combatants strikes me as silly. I am sure Monty Python could have had a lot of fun with that idea
But then many things that the PTB do regarding warfare and politics puzzles me.
Cheers
Lee
October 26th, 2008 at 12:59 am
amazing no one mentioned that Crazy Frog!!! has to be THE most annoying thing of the last 1000 years…..
October 26th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Mom,
So using your logic, trying to understand the circumstances that led to the rise of Nazi power in the 30s and the war crimes they commited during WWII or trying to understand thier own justifications of these actions…is somehow condoing it?
Simply explaining something does is not approval, it’s asinine to think it does.
Are FBI serial killer profilers somehow complicit in mass murder becuase they seek to understand the criminal mind?
Are lawers and judges who seek to understand the motives and justification of criminals somehow approving of thier misdeeds?
Your assertation that I somehow approve of torture becuase I am trying to understand the legal justifications is nothing short of complete BS. Once again, get off your high horse, you are no better than anyone else in here.
October 26th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
I am impressed that metallica wanted their music played during interrogations and even more impressed that they didn’t demand to see a receipt for the black album. Long live napster!
October 26th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Mom: For cryin’ out loud… get off Mr. Plow’s back already. I’ve just read the whole list of comments and finally registered just to write this (of course I’d been meaning to for a while, but never really felt the need to contribute). It is possible to understand and yes, even justify, an idea without agreeing with it or condoning it. It just means someone is actually thinking about it, rather than leave the thinking to others about whose agendas we may know nothing. There’s no substitute for thinking things through. And that means understanding the arguments of both sides before taking sides. If you want to ride someone for condoning objectionable practices, there are at least twenty far more deserving posters. I just don’t see Mr. Plow as meriting the moral accusation.
October 26th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
If playing country music can avoid 1 terrorist attack, they can have my whole collection.
October 26th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!!!!!
October 27th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Poor Skoalman – so bitter, so young, so confused. But the good news is, Metallica is still old-school!
October 27th, 2008 at 8:20 am
This list and comments denotes an elitist smugness born of ignorance of the War on Terrorism and American culture in general.
1. Having been to Iraq, I can tell you that many of them are huge fans of American music. One of the biggest selling groups in the various markets is THE BEE GEES!.
2. Showing disdain for country music may be faddish in “enlightened” circles but the fact remains that the biggest selling artist of all time is A COUNTRY ARTIST and there are more country stations in the US than any other format. You can trash american culture all you want, but Baywatch and McDonalds have permeated the world not thru military force.
3. You neglect to mention the fact ( as well as much of the western media) that Saddam Hussein supported terrorism by paying $10,000 to the families of suicide bombers who attacked US and Israeli targets. You can discount the fact he had over 500 tons of yellowcake at Tuwaitha along with 100 tons of chemical weapons and still claim he was no threat to anyone becuase there is no evidence of weapons of mass distruction.
4. If you ask US soldiers Christian and Menchaca if they would rather endure Abu Ghraib of the fate they endured at the hands of the “unlawful combatants” you are screaming to protect.. what choice do you think they would make?
5. If those fighting the US invasion of Iraq are just defending their homes and the sovereignity of theur nation, why do they kill more Iraqi civilians than the coalition? Why to the local populaces fear Iraqi justice more than Coalition jusitice? Why do so many Iraqis want to come to the US? Why do the Kurds want the US to build permanent bases in the north of Iraq?
October 27th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Try some black metal that shit is crazy
October 27th, 2008 at 11:47 am
How about Lil Markie?
That guy is just about all I can handle…
October 27th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
This list and comments denotes an elitist smugness born of ignorance of the War on Terrorism and American culture in general.
“elistist smugness” / “ignorance”? LOL!!
Having been to Iraq, I can tell you that many of them are huge fans of American music. One of the biggest selling groups in the various markets is THE BEE GEES!.
What was that you said above about “ignorance” of “American culture”? Because someone should tell you that the Bee Gees are NOT American, for a start. Secondly – and more to the point – do you really think that the choice of music matters when the reason behind the music (*any* music) is torture by way of sleep deprivation?
You neglect to mention the fact (as well as much of the western media) that Saddam Hussein supported terrorism by paying $10,000 to the families of suicide bombers who attacked US and Israeli targets.
So, you are saying that some headline-gaining payments to Palestinians (the vast majority, by the way, being families who suffered losses due to Israeli shelling) merits a full-on invasion of Iraq? Firstly, nobody has ever pretended that Sadaam was a friend of the US. But, as you have this fixation with payments to sponsors of terror, perhaps you can tell us who exactly was funding the Taliban to the tune of some $5bn in the 1970’s and 1980’s; or who was remitting tens of millions of dollars to the Afghanis as recently as 2001 as an “opium subsidy” (hint : US Govt). Even Condoleeza Rice has admitted that US funding was likely being channeled into terrorist coffers.
Better still, take a look at who the members of OPEC are and what their record on state-sponsored terrorism or terrorist sympathies are, and what the price of oil has been for the past couple of years. Now, take a look in the mirror next time you are filling your vehicle with gas – like it or not, the face you see in the mirror is a key contributor to the funding of global terrorism.
You can discount the fact he had over 500 tons of yellowcake at Tuwaitha along with 100 tons of chemical weapons and still claim he was no threat to anyone becuase there is no evidence of weapons of mass distruction.
Now you are starting to sound foolish. The whole world (aside from a few conspiracy nuts) knows that the yellowcake you refer to was put under UN control after the *first* Gulf War, and that any that was greater than industrial grade (ie. potentially useful for weapons) was promptly transported to Russia for de-purification. Sadaam was, indeed, a tyrant – but there were no weapons of mass destruction for the inspectors to find; and even Tony Blair has basically admitted this.
If you ask US soldiers Christian and Menchaca if they would rather endure Abu Ghraib of the fate they endured at the hands of the “unlawful combatants” you are screaming to protect.. what choice do you think they would make?
Are you incapable of discriminating between the *innocent* people we have been discussing amd those who are actual combatants/terrorists?! No right-thinking person can condone such atrocities as experienced by those poor guys. But affording human rights to everybody does not preclude justice being done; if anything, it enhances it.
If those fighting the US invasion of Iraq are just defending their homes and the sovereignity of theur nation, why do they kill more Iraqi civilians than the coalition? Why to the local populaces fear Iraqi justice more than Coalition jusitice? Why do so many Iraqis want to come to the US? Why do the Kurds want the US to build permanent bases in the north of Iraq?
None of this has anything to do with the reasons for or the legitimacy (or otherwise) of the invasion of Iraq.
October 27th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Ok, first off: Soulja Boy is HELL!! Right behind it is Country Music/ Barney Song (your pick) and then add whatever you want after. LOL on the Metallica XD
October 27th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
kiwiboi(166) Saddam Hussein may not have ever been our ‘friend’, but we (the US) certainly did support him and his regime during the Iran-Iraq war in the early 1980’s. Oh the joy…
October 27th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
the hamsterdance…
October 27th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
kiwiboi, you got old dude claiming The Bee Gees as American Culture.alf1369 how dare you,their from Australia! Although during the late 70`s if you didnt listen & know how to dance to disco music you went home ALONE. Props! Take a pill man dont let the stupid things the U.S does make you do so much research & fretting about it.We`ll police the world yall kick back and do what you do.No one is ever gonna try to attack you or take over your country as long as the U.S. is around.Right?
October 27th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Having the U.S. around is like having a big dumb over muscular brother around to look out for you when a bully is around. You keep him in his place and make fun of him till you need him !!
October 28th, 2008 at 12:17 am
It always irks me when people try to pass off other countries’ torture methods as excuses for U.S. behavior. I so much as mention Abu Ghraib or the internment of Japanese people in America during WWII, and someone jumps down my throat with a “well, if you haven’t been to another country/ seen firsthand how bad torture can be, you have no basis to talk!”
Really people… I do not, and will never, deny that other countries do have and have had horrifying methods of gaining information. But, that does NOT wipe America’s hands free of thier own amount of blood, and that does NOT justify our own brands of torture.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It is what so many humans tout as what separates us from animals.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:23 am
Saddam Hussein may not have ever been our ‘friend’, but we (the US) certainly did support him and his regime during the Iran-Iraq war in the early 1980’s
JayArr – true; but, to be fair, if a week is along time in politics, 20 years is a lifetime in international geo-politics. But, as the French like to say : plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. Maybe rather than “follow the money”, in this case we should “follow the oil”.
Take a pill man dont let the stupid things the U.S does make you do so much research & fretting about it.We`ll police the world yall kick back and do what you do.No one is ever gonna try to attack you or take over your country as long as the U.S. is around.Right?
bigski – research? This stuff is common knowledge. As for the rest of your comment, I don’t know you well enough to judge whether or not you are being flippant, so I’ll assume that you are.
Really people… I do not, and will never, deny that other countries do have and have had horrifying methods of gaining information. But, that does NOT wipe America’s hands free of their own amount of blood, and that does NOT justify our own brands of torture.
Anon E. Mouse – well said. Interestingly, despite the legalities of the applicability of the Geneva Conventions (in comments above) Colin Powell kind of echoed what you are saying (“do unto others”) – albeit from a practical perspective – in stating that he thought the Conventions should apply to enemy non-combatants because how else could the US demand the same treatment be reciprocated to its own troops.
However, this topic invariably polarises people. And, it should be emphasised, nobody is picking on the US here (despite the preamble to this list) – this particular discussion evolved that way in response to issues raised by a guy in the US military; I’m a dual NZ/British citizen, and I can tell you that the Brits are no poster boys for human rights either.
October 28th, 2008 at 6:57 am
Kiwiboi, you need to check your timeline a little better. “One week”?? Break, one each…give me! Try from 1981 through 1988. My unit nearly went to Iraq as a support/observer unit during the ‘tanker war’ portion of that war… But, nuff said. We’re way off topic for this list anyway. G’day!
October 28th, 2008 at 7:25 am
Kiwiboi, you need to check your timeline a little better. “One week”?? Break, one each…give me! Try from 1981 through 1988.
JayArr – are you serious? When I wrote “a week is along time in politics” I was not being literal; I am well aware of the general timeline of the Gulf War.
I was quoting a famous statement made by British Prime Minister Harold Wilson some 30 years ago.
Let me point you in the right direction :
“A week is a long time in politics”: this signifies that political fortunes can change extremely rapidly.
Source (about half way down the page) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson
October 28th, 2008 at 7:30 am
“Gulf War” – oops; should have said “Gulf Wars” or, more specifically “Persian Gulf War”.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:01 am
kiwiboi, sorry, your metaphor was lost on me there. And my reference was to the Iran-Iraq war, not any of the Gulf Wars.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:23 am
JayArr – My fault…I probably shouldn’t have assumed that an American would necessarily recognise the quote (though I’ve heard American reporters use it). As for the terminology, the Iran-Iraq conflict (which I was aware you were referring to) is commonly known as the Persian Gulf War (per my clarification in #176).
And whilst I should have avoided the term “Gulf War”, I was using it generically. Even the redoubtable wikipedia would probably forgive me this transgression; here’s what it says :
“The [Iran-Iraq] war was commonly referred to as the Gulf War or Persian Gulf War until the Iraq-Kuwait conflict (Operation Desert Storm Jan-Feb 1991)”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
Anyway…this is a minor matter; we were both talking about the same thing.
Out of interest, JayArr, are you still in the forces?
October 28th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
kiwiboi, I got out in ‘98. My wife was a major contributing factor to that decision… after nearly 14 years.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
“This commercial is extremely popular in torture sessions – I am not sure why”
You’re not sure why? I thought it was annoying to listen to that once, imagine what it’s like to listen to that over and over for (possibly) hours on end. I imagine I’d throw up or something after about 5 minutes of that.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Hey kiwiboi if your gonna quote me put everything I said, not just parts of it for dramatic affect.I was just conversing American style. I got love for all yall! Peace out!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Mariah Carey does it for me… ALL her soundtracks! Complete “I wanna shoot myself” material that one!
October 29th, 2008 at 1:18 am
122 – very funny!
157 – Do u think lars is asking the gov. for any unpaid royalties for the use of the song?
October 29th, 2008 at 6:13 am
Hey kiwiboi if your gonna quote me put everything I said, not just parts of it for dramatic affect.I was just conversing American style./i>
bigski – fair enough; but you run the risk of being misunderstood (eg. “is bigski being serious? or is he having a little fun?”). I don’t need to tell you that the written word on these lists doesn’t always accurately convey the intent or the tone. I already referred to this aspect in my reply to you (#173).
And I’ll always only quote the bits I am commenting on – though not for “dramatic effect”, as you put it.
I got love for all yall! Peace out!
Right back at you! I’m sure we’ll talk again
October 29th, 2008 at 6:15 am
I got out in ‘98. My wife was a major contributing factor to that decision… after nearly 14 years.
JayArr – woah…14 years! No big regrets?
October 29th, 2008 at 7:18 am
Some regrets – will certainly miss the retirement, but at least I didn’t have to hit Iraq the second time we went in. Survival rates for us Combat MPs (not garrison/PW) tend to be scary… sweating out one gulf war was enough.
October 29th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Survival rates for us Combat MPs (not garrison/PW) tend to be scary…
Heh…which is where, I guess, the wife enters the picture
October 30th, 2008 at 6:18 am
JayArr: You were an MP? You got my respect, man. I’m still in the service here, and I know how often a lot of the MP’s here are deploying. My career field goes a fair bit, too, but we’re not in harm’s way nearly as much.
Though I’ve been in significantly less than 14 years. Wow. I commend you, good sir.
October 30th, 2008 at 6:41 am
Thanks much, Anon E. Mouse. I wish you a healthy tour of duty, and clear MSR’s!
October 30th, 2008 at 7:30 am
Nice dodge pal..
1. I never claimed the BeeGees were American. I said they are popular in Iraq and therefore not a likely source of torture soundtracks.
2. Yes the UN was aware that there was yellowcake in Tuwaitha, but no one reports that the seals were tampered with, and the dodge about the chemical weapons being gulf war I doesnt hold water when he promised he had destroyed them.
3. You can play off the payments as propoganda, but it was made very clear that those supporting terrorism would be dealt with as enemies of the US. He was just stupid enough to admit it without us making the case. As for your suppostion that we funded bin Laden and his ilk, I suggest you contact BG Reza Ali, the ISI general in charge of funneling US aid into Iraq and get your conspiracy theories dismissed.
4. You have yet to make a case the “innocent” people were killed, and the MSM had been discredited on numerous occaions for photoshopping and staging “innocents” killed by US forces. Go pound some sand in Baghdad, and then come back with that crap. You should be pissed that you are being so openly lied to in favor of terrorists and organized criminals.
October 30th, 2008 at 7:33 am
FYI.. sleep deprivation does not classify torture. If so.. then US Law enforcement agencies would be called to taks for using the tactic in their interrogations.
The one good thing that came out of Abu Ghraib was that just the threat of being shipped there made most susbsequent detainees wet their pants and sing like birds…But I suppose thats torture too.
October 30th, 2008 at 8:33 am
I’m not even a Jew and I think Janeane Garofalo is a FOX!
Incidentally, I don’t think culture has anything to do with this music being torture…
I find some rap to nearly impossible to listen to, and I can’t stand Country&Western unless it’s the original Ghostriders in the Sky, and Johnny Cash’s cover version…
October 30th, 2008 at 8:40 am
FYI.. sleep deprivation does not classify torture.
alf1369 – really? Even according the the US State Department it does. Read their reports on other nations who use it (eg. Turkey, Jordan).
If so.. then US Law enforcement agencies would be called to taks for using the tactic in their interrogations.
Your naievity is astounding.
The one good thing that came out of Abu Ghraib was that just the threat of being shipped there made most susbsequent detainees wet their pants and sing like birds
They did? So why were 5,000 detainees held there without charge? Why, then, the need to resort to torture?
Pathetic.
October 30th, 2008 at 8:53 am
OOOPS!!!!!!!!!!
I just found out J.G. isn’t jewish!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oops! again, and sorry, my bad!
October 30th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
haha I remember the Barney theme song. When I was around 8 living in Norway there was a popular alternative version going around my school, it went like this:
i hate you, you hate me
let’s gather up and kill barney
with a great big punch and barney’s on the floor
no more purple dinosaur
October 30th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Nice dodge pal..
1. I never claimed the BeeGees were American. I said they are popular in Iraq and therefore not a likely source of torture soundtracks.
alf, “pal” : it is of no consequence. But if you read your comments on this (#163), I think you’ll understand why I reached the conclusion I did.
But, let me add, if you think that the popularity of the Bee Gees in Iraq precludes their music from being a means of torture, you are mistaken. Try it yourself…pick your favourite tune and play it on repeat for an hour or two at a volume high enough that you are unable to sleep through it. I think you’ll change your view on this one.
Better still, why not take the word of a member of the US military’s Psychological Operations Company :
“They can’t take it. If you play it for 24 hours, your brain and body functions start to slide, your train of thought slows down and your will is broken. That’s when we come in and talk to them.”
Here’s the link : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3042907.stm
2. Yes the UN was aware that there was yellowcake in Tuwaitha, but no one reports that the seals were tampered with, and the dodge about the chemical weapons being gulf war I doesnt hold water when he promised he had destroyed them.
Oh really? Have this one then :
“The Tuwaitha nuclear complex was dismantled after the 1991 Gulf War. But tonnes of nuclear material remained there under the seal of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), until the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq when it was left unguarded and looted by Iraqi civilians.”
http://uk.reuters.com/article/burningIssues/idUKL0768496820080707
More to the point…given that Bush and Blair were so adamant that there were WMD’s…why didn’t either of them stand up and scream “Hey! Yellowcake” Yellowcake!! WMD’s!! WMD’s!!” ?? Easy…because this was of entirely no relevance.
But, this is all academic anyway. Bush has clearly and openly admitted that there were no WMD’s in Iraq and that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. End of story.
3. You can play off the payments as propoganda, but it was made very clear that those supporting terrorism would be dealt with as enemies of the US. He was just stupid enough to admit it without us making the case.
In that case…why isn’t Bush preparing to send troops into Russia? Only a few weeks ago Cheney said at a European security conference in Italy :
“Russia has sold advanced weapons to the regimes in Syria and Iran. Some of the Russian weapons sold to Damascus have been channeled to terrorist fighters in Lebanon and Iraq.”
As for your suppostion that we funded bin Laden and his ilk, I suggest you contact BG Reza Ali, the ISI general in charge of funneling US aid into Iraq and get your conspiracy theories dismissed.
And I suggest you read these words (from Ron Paul) :
“We should recognize that American tax dollars helped to create the very Taliban government that now wants to destroy us. In the late 1970s and early 80s, the CIA was very involved in the training and funding of various fundamentalist Islamic groups in Afghanistan, some of which later became today’s brutal Taliban government. In fact, the U.S. government admits to giving the groups at least 6 billion dollars in military aid and weaponry, a staggering sum that would be even larger in today’s dollars.
Bin Laden himself received training and weapons from the CIA,”
http://www.counterpunch.org/paul2.html
What was that about “conspiracy theories”?
And if you don’t trust Ron Paul, I’m sure you can google the authoritative source.
4. You have yet to make a case the “innocent” people were killed,
I haven’t even tried to make this case. Show me where I have…go ahead.
Go pound some sand in Baghdad, and then come back with that crap.
Heh, I wondered how long it would take you to resort to the ridiculous Rambo argument (“you weren’t there, man!”).
November 1st, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Of course it is funny to mention songs which sound like torture, because many songs do… Elton John, George Micheal, Celine Dion, the Macarena, Lady in Red, etc. But seriously you could certainly scar somebody mentally with music. The Meow mix song is a perfect example, I’m sure it will work as mental torture. Maybe it can be fun (to some people) to hear it once or twice; but just imagine if you have to listen to it unbearably loud, on repeat for 48 hours… It will destroy you. The song will very possibly haunt you for the rest of your life.
November 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am
Ummm perhaps you are ignorant of Afghan tribes and politics… but Taliban is not Al Queada and Bin Laden was not liked or trusted by either because of his radical brand of Islam. He was tolerated because of what he brought to the table, and protected because Islamic duty demanded it. I prefer to believe just about ANYBODY over a presidential cadidate.. especially one like Ron Paul. I can say I was there and viewed the ground truth of events in Afghanistan and Iraq.. and have seen how media will flat out refuse to publish the true events or will twist them in such a way that hides the truth. If you can see that based on current election coverage, you will never be convinced of anything.
November 3rd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Ummm perhaps you are ignorant of Afghan tribes and politics
Ummm perhaps you should address the points being made. But whatever…
My comments about the funding of the Taliban and bin Laden are fact. Also, if you are such an expert on Afghan politics, you would be aware of the Al Quaeda/Taliban alliance…to the extent even that bin Laden’s son married Mullah Omar’s daughter.
And your comments about the media merely serve to reinforce your ignorance.
November 8th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
i still love the concept from biodome (yeah, i watched it… not proud).
blare “the safety dance”. its catchy at first then grates on your nerves each time you hear it.
way to be metallica, like they’re not big enough douche bags already.
i can’t even begin to conceptualize listening to the barney theme song for hours on end.
November 15th, 2008 at 12:36 am
will everyone who has a bone to pick w/ metallica over this issue just read the link that #18 posted. james hetfield neither condemns nor condones the use of metallica’s music as torture. he’s being smart and keeping his mouth shut about his political beliefs and who can blame him in this turbulent time where speaking out against anything your country does can get you boycotted and ostracized (for example: the dixie chicks).
November 17th, 2008 at 4:54 am
will everyone who has a bone to pick w/ metallica over this issue just read the link that #18 posted. james hetfield neither condemns nor condones the use of metallica’s music as torture.
Lilith Hel – Here’s his opening words, when describing his feelings about Enter Sandman being used during interrogations : “Part of me is proud is because they chose METALLICA”.
He also says about the music being used : “It is just a thing — it’s not good or bad.”
On this basis…how would people feel if Metallica music was being used by insurgents during the torture/interrogation of American soldiers and Hetfields response was “Part of me is proud because they chose Metallica” ??!!
he’s being smart and keeping his mouth shut about his political beliefs
Firstly, he’s not keeping his mouth shut; else he would have said “no comment”.
More to the point, it seems that – to Metallica – whilst torture is a mere “political” matter, downloading their music is “morally and legally wrong”
Great perspective on life, don’t you think…??
November 27th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Why are
MARIAH CAREY
CELINE DION
WHITNEY HOUSTON
missing on this list?
Because the abovementioned singers _do_ physically harm any unwilling listeners.
December 17th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Honorable mention should be: John Denver, Tom Waits and Leo Sayer.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Celine Dion beatboxing… or Heidi (speidi) trying to rap on TRL… not okay. i had to change the channel i couldnt watch it.
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:11 pm
lol i loved the part about the meow mix one that was hilarious! I’m gonna definately try that sometime!!
What about the annoying song though? I’m not sure what else to call it, but it could last forever! It goes:
I know something that gets on everybodies nerves, everybodies nerves, everybodies nerves
i know something that gets on everybodies nerves, and this is how it goes
VERSE ONE!
and then keep goes, changing verse one to verse two etc.
My friends held me down and after about twenty minutes of it being shouted in your ears, trust me, you would confess to anything!
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:10 pm
in my opinion watching barney dance around makes me want to hurt him really bad
so i say why just listen
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:51 pm
i hate that dinosaur.
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:01 pm
A lot of torture sessions involve(d) the use of music by Rage Against the Machine – an American rap cum rock group formed in 1991. LOL!—————————–^
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Damnit, the arrow isnt pointing to the right thing, why is “Cum” in there? haha.
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:10 pm
209. Nick Palla -
cum
‘Used in indicating a thing with two roles, functions, or natures, or a thing that has changed from one to another..’
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cum
February 10th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
wow. I even like some of these, should I be ashamed?
I agree with soulja boy, and that stupid stanky leg song should be on here as well.
March 2nd, 2009 at 6:32 pm
I agree with most of these, yet i disagree with the comments. First, MP don’t interrogate anyone. I’m a MP and have never done it, I’ve interviewed, but never interrogated. Second, having previously mentioned I’m a MP, I know plenty of MPs who like country music. I am among them. So please before you write you list get your facts straight.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Maybe I’m missing something, but how would listening to Janeane Garefaelo offend any ‘terrorist’ unless they could understand English in the first place? Or maybe they have a translator on hand for that….
April 12th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Country music would definitely be a top torture for me. I can take only so much of it before I have to change the radio station or TV channel.
I’m surprised “Barbie Girl” isn’t high on the torture list, though. Not only is it extremely annoying, it’s about a famous American icon who is contrary to Muslim ideals in looks and profession. Plus, the doll’s 50-year success represents strong American business and marketing.
I don’t advocate torture, I’m just saying.
April 21st, 2009 at 8:18 am
Haha, Rickroll should be on here.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Sorry to bring up a dusty old list up, but it AMAZED me that this sound wasn’t used for torture.
watch it!
May 14th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Just let Lars blather on about something/anything the rest of us don’t care about.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
I would like to state, for the record, that the Geneva Convention rules apply only to REAL combatants. That is, combatants who are part of a organized military force, IE Switzerland, the US, Canada, the Brits, etc.
May 19th, 2009 at 4:55 am
I saw a interview with Lars Ulrich, he wasn’t too happy about this, although I know James neither condemns nor condones.
July 19th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
“Now, I am not saying that the torture is wrong or evil”
‘cos come on, you’re not an idiot…
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 am
The meow mix song isn’t torture. That’s what I thought until I saw the video.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Finally, Neil Diamond is on a well-deserved list…his fans cant get over the fact his music just doesnt cut it for the Hall of Fame, and hopefully never will…is funny how the fans are hush-hush about this one..amazing the musicians arent as enraged about the physical torture, waterboarding, but are worried about their own egos and royalties…If I want to play certain songs day and night, that is no ones business…..
Neil Diamond yells, does not ’sing’…I am sure his turn at the center was indeed torture to endure….the whole subject is laughable