Andy Warhol once said that every man would have 15 minutes of fame – unfortunately for the 10 people on this list, that fame came at a high price – their life. These are people who would undoubtedly prefer to have lived without fame than lose their lives to achieve immortality in history.
Pasqualino Antonio “Leno” LaBianca and his wife Rosemary LaBianca were victims of the Manson Family murders famously known as the Tate LaBianca murders. Charles Manson, the leader of the Manson “family,” orchestrated the murders for the sake of Helter Skelter, an apocalyptic war he believed would arise from tension over racial relations between blacks and whites. The four “family” members who had participated in the Tate murders, Charles “Tex” Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel and Linda Kasabian, were again summoned by Manson along with Leslie Van Houten and Steve Grogan aka Clem Tufts. Manson ordered Kasabian to cruise the neighborhoods of Los Angeles, in search of potential victims, before settling on the home of the LaBiancas.
Sometime during the early morning hours of August 10, 1969, Manson family members entered the LaBianca house and murdered the couple. The girls wrote messages in Leno’s blood. “Death to pigs” and “Rise” were written on the living room wall, and “Healter Skelter” [sic] was written on the refrigerator. After the murders, the family members remained at the house. Some ate food from the LaBianca’s refrigerator, played with the couple’s dogs and showered before hitchhiking back to the Spahn Ranch.
Mary Jo Kopechne was an American teacher, secretary and administrator, who died in a car accident in Chappaquiddick Island while being driven by United States Senator Ted Kennedy. On July 18, 1969, Kopechne attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island, off the coast of Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts, held in honor of the “Boiler Room Girls.” This affectionate name was given to the six young women who had been vital to the late Robert Kennedy’s presidential campaign and who had subsequently closed up his files and campaign office after his assassination.
Kopechne left the party at 11:15 p.m. with Kennedy after he allegedly offered to drive her to catch the last ferry back to the Katama Shores Motor Inn in Edgartown where she was staying. Kennedy stated, on his way to the ferry crossing back to Edgartown, that he accidentally turned right onto Dike Road – a dirt road – instead of bearing sharply left on Main Street. After proceeding one-half mile, he descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge set obliquely to the unlit road. Kennedy drove the 1967 Oldsmobile Delmont 88 belonging to him, off the side of Dyke Bridge, and the car overturned into Poucha Pond. Kennedy extricated himself from the submerged car but Kopechne died.

J. D. Tippit was a police officer with the Dallas, Texas Police Department who, according to numerous witnesses and multiple government investigations including the Warren Commission, was shot and killed by Lee Harvey Oswald after Tippit stopped Oswald following the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
At approximately 1:11–1:14 p.m. on the day of the assassination, Tippit was driving slowly in an easterly direction on East 10th Street in Oak Cliff. Tippit pulled up alongside Oswald, who was walking in the same direction. Oswald then walked over to Tippit’s car, and apparently exchanged words with him. Tippit opened the door on the left side and started to walk around the front of his car. As he reached the front wheel on the driver’s side, Oswald drew a revolver and fired several shots in rapid succession, hitting Tippit three times in the chest. He then walked up to Tippit’s fallen body and shot him directly in the head, killing him instantly.
John Morrison Birch was an American Military Intelligence Officer and a Baptist Missionary in World War II who was shot by armed supporters of the Communist Party of China. Some politically conservative groups within the United States consider him to be a martyr and the first victim of the Cold War. The John Birch Society, formed thirteen years after his death, is named in honor of him.
Birch is known today mainly by the society that bears his name. His name is on the bronze plaque of a World War II monument at the top of Coleman Hill Park overlooking downtown Macon, along with the names of other Macon men who lost their lives while serving in the military. Birch has a plaque on the sanctuary of the First Southern Methodist Church of Macon, which was built on land given by his family, purchased with the money John sent home monthly. Pictured above is Robert Welch, chief organizer of the John Birch society.
Edward Donald Slovik was a private in the United States Army during World War II and the only American soldier to be executed for desertion since the American Civil War. Although over twenty-one thousand soldiers were given varying sentences for desertion during World War II—including forty-nine death sentences—only Slovik’s death sentence was carried out. Slovik was charged with desertion to avoid hazardous duty and court martialed on November 11, 1944. The prosecutor, Captain John Green, presented witnesses to whom Slovik had stated his intention to “run away.” The defense counsel, Captain Edward Woods, announced that Slovik had elected not to testify. The nine officers of the court found Slovik guilty and sentenced him to death.
On December 9, Slovik wrote a letter to the Supreme Allied commander, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, pleading for clemency. However, desertion had become a problem, and Eisenhower confirmed the execution order on December 23. The execution by firing squad was carried out at 10:04 a.m. on January 31, 1945, near the village of Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines. Slovik was twenty-four years old.
Horst Ludwig Wessel (October 9, 1907 – February 23, 1930) was a German Nazi activist who was made a posthumous hero of the Nazi movement following his violent murder in 1930. He was the author of the lyrics to the song “Die Fahne hoch” (“Raise High the Flag”), usually known as Horst-Wessel-Lied (“the Horst Wessel Song”), which became the Nazi Party anthem and Germany’s official co-national anthem from 1933 to 1945. The song was banned along with all other Nazi symbols in 1945, and both the lyrics and tune remain illegal in Germany to this day. The clip above shows the song being sung at the Nuremberg Congress.
John Luther “Casey” Jones was an American railroad engineer from Jackson, Tennessee who worked for the Illinois Central Railroad (IC). On April 30, 1900 he alone was killed when his passenger train collided with a stopped freight train at Vaughan, Mississippi on a foggy and rainy night. His dramatic death trying to stop his train and save lives made him a railroad icon who became immortalized in a popular ballad sung by his friend Wallace Saunders, an African American engine wiper for the IC. Due to the enduring popularity of this classic song, he has been the world’s most famous railroad engineer for over a century.
was one of five people killed in the Boston Massacre in Boston, Massachusetts. He has been frequently named as the first martyr of the American Revolution and is the only person killed in the Boston Massacre whose name is commonly remembered. Although little is known for certain about Attucks, including his ethnicity, the possibility that he was African American or Native American has elevated him to an important symbolic status in U.S. history.
In the early 19th century, as the Abolitionist movement gained momentum in Boston, Attucks was lauded as an example of a black American who played a heroic role in the history of the United States. Because Crispus Attucks may also have had Wampanoag Indian ancestors, his story also holds special significance for many Native Americans.

James Bulger was the victim of abduction and murder. His killers were two 10-year-old boys, Jon Venables and Robert Thompson. The murder took place in Merseyside, England. James disappeared from the New Strand Shopping Centre, where he had been with his mother Denise, on 12 February 1993 and his mutilated body was found on a railway line at Bootle on 14 February. As the circumstances surrounding the death became clear, tabloid newspapers compared the killers with Myra Hindley and Ian Brady who had committed the Moors Murders during the 1960s. They denounced the people who had seen Bulger but not realized the trouble he was in. The railway embankment upon which his body had been discovered was flooded with hundreds of bunches of flowers.
Nathan Hale was an officer for the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. Widely considered America’s first spy, he volunteered for an intelligence-gathering mission, but was captured by the British. He is best remembered for his speech before being hanged following the Battle of Long Island, in which he reportedly said, “I only regret that I have but one life to give my country.” Hale has long been considered an American hero and, in 1985, he was officially designated the state hero of Connecticut.
This article is licensed under the GFDL because it contains quotations from Wikipedia.




















October 28th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Woohoo, am I first??? ok time to read the list now…
October 28th, 2008 at 2:38 am
Great list… very moving…
October 28th, 2008 at 2:48 am
Maybe you should start out an “absurd section” and have “10 People who were never famous, not even after their death” … (something within the humor of The Monty Python Flying Circus)
October 28th, 2008 at 2:50 am
This is pretty cool man.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:01 am
Why is number 5, Horst Wessel, on this list? I don’t think it was his death that made him famous, only the song he composed? And if it was his death that was the main cause for his fame, what was so shocking about it?
October 28th, 2008 at 3:04 am
Hmm… Very interesting list.
Just a tiny little thing… I may be incorrect in saying this, but wasn’t Manson’s “Helter Skelter” war not only a race war, but also against those they deemed ‘Hollywood types’?
And I think that above all, the story of James Bulger is by far the most disturbing of this list. What makes a couple of ten-year-old boys commit murder?
October 28th, 2008 at 3:16 am
Anon E. Mouse: no – Manson wanted to cause chaos through race riots – he felt that if they murdered “white hollywood types” that the white majority would rise up against the blacks. So while it appears to be a hollywood crime, it wasn’t. Imagine if 6 white people who are not famous were murdered – then imagine 6 hollywood celebs being murders – what would the difference in the mainstream media be?
Soofie: it was not until after his death that Wessel’s song became important – and with it his fame. Remember, the Nazi’s weren’t governing until 1933 – 3 years after Wessel’s death.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:16 am
Cool list.
No mention of Kitty Genovese? Seems like an obvious one.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:38 am
I was expecting to see the Ramsey’s daughter. I was sure she would be #1.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:39 am
When I saw this list the first name in my mind was Todd Beamer. But then I thought most people wont know who he is because he died with so many other brave people. Its a pity though, because I only heard his name after his death and its burned into my memory for as long as I shall live.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:48 am
I’ve often wondered if Anne Frank would be famous (notwithstanding that the human tragedy/interest of her diaries could likely stand on their own merits) if she hadn’t died in the Nazi camps. Does the fact of her death afford a dimension to her writings that might not otherwise be there? I tend to think they might…
October 28th, 2008 at 4:14 am
jfrater: Thanks, but I still don’t think that becoming famous after your death qualifies you for this particular list. Surely you only belong on this list if your death itself was the thing that made you famous? (I’m not saying Wessel isn’t famous of course, I just think the cause of his fame was something other than the way he died.) Or did the way he was killed have something to do with his song or the emerging nazi party?
Thanks for listverse, by the way. Something to look forward to every day!
October 28th, 2008 at 4:28 am
jfrater: Thank you very much! Ah, the pleasure of speaking to individuals on the internet who actually respond intelligently. One of the things I have come to enjoy about this site, with my being relatively new in the Listverse neighborhood.
Thank you very much for the daily intrigue and interesting debate!
October 28th, 2008 at 4:43 am
what the hell is this about ……………………
October 28th, 2008 at 4:45 am
I really dislike her book. It don’t get why eveyone thinks its so great. It was boring.
October 28th, 2008 at 4:45 am
Nice list. Can someone compose a list about the people made famous (or prominent) by their births?
October 28th, 2008 at 4:54 am
#8 Elan – Kitty Genovese – there’s a name I haven’t heard since first year psych! I agree, she should be on the list; bystander effect is occasionally called “Genovese syndrome” in here honour.
October 28th, 2008 at 4:54 am
Her honour, rather. Eep.
October 28th, 2008 at 4:55 am
How come I’ve never heard of any of these?
October 28th, 2008 at 5:07 am
Great list. Didn’t expect to see little James Bulger at number 2, his killers are out now with new identities, new places to live, full protection, doesn’t seem fair really does it? Poor lad.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:10 am
I didn’t know the name “Todd Beamer”, but like Rina (number 10), I thought of him, despite not being American.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:18 am
Jfrater: Just on another note, can’t you make a list of the top ten autobiographical books?
October 28th, 2008 at 5:38 am
Soofie:
No, it WAS, in fact, Wessel’s death that made him famous, and that famous death led to his song being touted as the “signature tune” for the soundtrack of Nazi terror.
What Jamie (jfrater) left out was that (so Nazi propaganda painted it) Wessel (a brown-shirt thug) was killed in a street brawl with communists. Hence he became a martyr for Nazism.
It was often said, however, that he was in fact killed in a fight over a prostitute.
Regardless, he had penned his little pathetic song, which had remained obscure UNTIL his death, and the song (and Wessel) only became known BECAUSE of that death.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:42 am
I thought we couldn’t post those annoying “1st!” comments. Anywho, good list number two makes me sad.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:47 am
Kiwiboi – Anne Frank also came to mind when I saw the title of this list and I tend to agree with you. I wonder if the diaries would ever have been published had she survived.
There are also a number of people from South Africa made famous by their deaths. One that comes to mind is Hector Pieterson. I think he’s been mentioned on another list here somewhere, but through his death he became the symbol of the resistance to apartheid.
I’m sure every country has their own people who were made famous through their deaths…
October 28th, 2008 at 5:59 am
very cool list jayfray. the number of people in that nazi video gave me the creeps. with that many devoted followers, the world is fortunate that they only did the damage did. imagine if they had nuclear power at that time. yikes.
October 28th, 2008 at 6:11 am
* only did the damage they did.
October 28th, 2008 at 6:13 am
only heard of to of these people
October 28th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Ahh! Now I get it! Thanks, Randall, for the patient explanation. Allthough, I am not really ashamed that I don’t know every detail about the Nazi party.
And sorry for doubting you, jf. It won’t happen again
October 28th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Ren, I thought of Jonbenet Ramsey too, but all of these were interesting.
I never knew Lee Harvey killed anyone else..I feel dumb
October 28th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Sublime? I know that were know before he died but Brad Nowell wasn’t that famous unutil he died, then his music really took off. Also, what about JoBenay Ramesy? I was young when she died and i know alot about her.
October 28th, 2008 at 7:36 am
Am still haunted by the video stills of James’ Bulgers killers leading him away from the shopping centre! Monstrous crime.
October 28th, 2008 at 7:40 am
“Kennedy extricated himself from the submerged car but Kopechne died.”
That’s one way to say it. Another way might be: Kennedy drunkenly pulled himself from the submerged car and left Kopechne to die, worrying about what would happen to him if it was found out that he’d essentially murdered the poor woman. (Turns out if you murder a woman with your drunk driving, you get to be one of the stars of the Senate for thirty or forty years, and when you get a brain tumor, everybody says what a nice guy you are/were).
Why the liberal slant?
October 28th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Nice list!
Just because somebody always throws Him into the mix at some point, regardless of topic, I’ll be the first to throw Him in: Jesus Christ.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:15 am
The Edward Slovik story is particularly interesting to me. I don’t know how the government can justify KILLING a man for desertion. That’s just insane to me. I know that was a long time ago but I think we have such a skewed justice system to this day.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:19 am
What about Nicole Brown Simpson? To a whole generation of people, that is what OJ is most famous for, not his football playing. Also, what about Adam Walsh? He is what got America’s most wanted started, and why Wal-MArt calls a code Adam when a child is missing in the store.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Oh, and although I don’t know his name, the monk that set himslef on fire as a protest during the Vietnam war? Just about every history book has that picture.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Just because somebody always throws Him into the mix at some point, regardless of topic, I’ll be the first to throw Him in: Jesus Christ.
logar – though one might argue that JC was somewhat famous in his own day, I guess that had he died in his sleep his impact would have been somewhat undermined!
October 28th, 2008 at 8:26 am
What about Adam Walsh? He was the son of John Walsh. Adam was kidnapped and killed in 1981 and his entire body has never been recovered. I had always heard only his head was recovered, but I might be mistaken. His death helped to create the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children and the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act which governs sex offenders. I think he should be on this list!
October 28th, 2008 at 8:36 am
bob: my guess would be that those allegations were not proven in a court of law. while public opinion of that night is not favorable toward senator kennedy, technically, he is “clean”. not a liberal slant, just being fair.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:47 am
onwisconsn – the Buddhist monk was Thich Quang Durc – another notable self immolator was Jan Palach, protesting the Russian invasion of Czechoslovakia in ‘68 – in fact, look up ’self-immolation’ in Wikipedia and you’ll be surprised how many people have done this.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:55 am
I do find it strange that several of the comments given said they’d never heard of many on the list. Where and when did they get their edukayshun?
I too was surprised Jon Benet Ramsy wasn’t on the list.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Notable in life, but international fame in death: Stephen Bantu Biko.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Logar – arguably JC is famous for (allegedly) not dying.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Sad, sad list.
I lived in Los Angeles at the time of the Tate-LaBianca murders. It set the entire city on edge with fear, but no one believed in the “race war” aspect.
Overall, this is the most depressing list we’ve had in a long time. This is not to say we shouldn’t have such lists. We should. They remind us of the importance of life, but they do so at a price.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:07 am
… or more theologically accurate – not staying dead.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:08 am
I really enjoyed this original list. I didn’t know the the story behind John Birch. Also JC did not become famous for dying; he became famous for coming back to earth 3 days later after his execution.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:13 am
logar: it seems the pot is beginning to stir according to your request
October 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am
I suppose there could be a separate ‘not staying dead’ list – e.g. JC, Elvis, the Terminator, King Arthur and Andy Kaufman.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:19 am
and Kenny
October 28th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Jonbennet Ramsey should be on the list.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I knew immediately that Crispus Attucks would be on this list.
11. kiwiboi: There was another girl like Anne Frank, only for the Bosnia-Herzegovinia conflict/war in the ’90’s. She survived, though- haven’t heard much about her.
Hmmm. Jesus Christ is famous for his death- of course if anyone else on this list had died in their sleep they wouldn’t be here, too! But maybe Jamie left this off to avoid the scuffle. He recently had another list involving JC. People are already calling him a liberal on this one!
October 28th, 2008 at 9:29 am
51. JFrater considers all lists and has taken many contributions. Get to it!
October 28th, 2008 at 9:56 am
I hear about Casey Jones all the time thanks to the exemplar Grateful Dead rendition of the original, “Drivin’ my train, high on cocaine, Casey Jones you better, watch yo speed”
October 28th, 2008 at 10:19 am
kiwiboi: According to biblical expert Father Guido Sarducci, Jesus actually died by slipping in the bathtub, so…
October 28th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Very excellent list Jamie. I agree that Jonbonet Ramsay is a notable omission, as is Adam Walsh. Kiwiboi has made a good point about Anne Frank. Had she not died there wouldn’t have been the impetus to publish.
Anon E. Mouse: Although Manson’s motive for the murders was to inspire Helter Skelter, the race war Jamie mentioned; Manson also had personal reasons for picking the particular houses he did. The Tate/Polanski residence used to be the home of Terry Melcher, producer for the beach boys. Manson knew him and was counting on him to produce his music, (to help incite Helter Skelter); of course Melcher didn’t. He had also visited the residence at a later date, and was rebuffed by one of the current inhabitants. The LaBianca residence was chosen because he couldn’t find the house he was looking for; again someone with whom he had a personal grudge. It was in fact the second house chosen, the first one having pictures of children visible from the outside.
October 28th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I did consider adding Benet-Ramsay – but I left her off because her fame was initially due to her disappearance – not death. As for Anne Frank, She is more famous for keeping a diary than dying. I can, however, appreciate that people might think them suitable for the list
October 28th, 2008 at 10:45 am
I remember how upset hearing about James Bulgar’s murder made me, and I was only 13 at the time.
Oddly, I never knew Casey Jones was a real person – just a tall tale… But then Johnny Appleseed was real, too (I think), so I shouldn’t be surprised.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Jackie R(35) – That’s nothing, the Russians executed their own troops by the dozen during the battle for Stalingrad in WWII. They had machine guns lined up behind the rear lines, and anyone caught/seen running AWAY from battle was summarily shot for cowardice/desertion. I guess making an example of one guy (as harsh as that may seem) is much less troublesome in my mind than executing hundreds (and even thousands) of your own soldiers to enforce the rule.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:24 am
um, Jonbenet Ramsey was only missing for a few hours before she was found dead in her own basement. it was truly her murder that made her famous.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Cedestra(52) OMG, I had no idea JC was a liberal!?! Next thing you know, we’ll find out that the Pope wears red undies!
October 28th, 2008 at 11:31 am
There was another girl like Anne Frank, only for the Bosnia-Herzegovinia conflict/war in the ’90’s. She survived, though- haven’t heard much about her.
Cedestra – I was kinda thinking out loud with my Anne Frank comment; but your example, being somewhat related, is interesting.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:34 am
According to biblical expert Father Guido Sarducci, Jesus actually died by slipping in the bathtub, so…
robneiderman – LOL. Yeah…I’d forgotten about him.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I feel bad for nr 6..
October 28th, 2008 at 11:40 am
What about Emmett Till? His gruesome death some say lead to the Civil Rights Movement.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:54 am
james bulger…a sad, sad story.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Excellent list . . .
I was also creeped out by the number of Nazis in that video. Absolutely amazing . . .
October 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I have to add my own voice to those who were given the shivers out by the number of people in that Nazi Hall.
Weird.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
I would include Bobby Sands, but very interesting nonetheless.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Great list, jfrater!
October 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Good list, but a little too American. There are many others that could have made the list, like Anne Frank.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Frankly i think Princess Diana should be on this list. She is only what she is because of her death. Despite what others would say she was just a pretty face with a flashy death.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Avi(72) Oh, ouch! Princess Diana was famous (and in some ways infamous) LONG before her death. Now, it could be said that her fame was enhanced all the more after her death, but she was quite the figure in international politics (and tabloids) for many years before that.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
#71. Clearly 8/10 famous people are north american! (cough)
October 28th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Sorry but at this stage in her life, if she wasnt killed by her stupidity or other means, she would be just another face in britain that is nothing compared to what she is considered now. Just look at lists of greatest British people ever or Time 100 of the century lists. She is all legend and death. Nothing but a pretty face with a flashy death.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Avi
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. Diana was much more famous in life than she was in death. I still remember being pissed off at my mom because she had to watch Diana’s wedding in the 80’s (mainly cause it interferred with my cartoons) and this was in a small town in upstate new york. I beleive the wedding was shown live in the US at the time. Add to that the media frenzy that accompanied her seperation and divorce in the 90’s. In addition to that I know she is reverred in many places in the world for the attention that she brought to the problem of land mines the world over. I agree with Jayarr that her death enhanced her fame, but to say that it is only her death that made her famous is, in my opinion, wrong.
October 28th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
She was a tabloid freak in a royalty position and was nothing that can warrant the fascination with her. her death was just the nail in the coffin for making her seem more special than she was.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
You shoulda put terry fox on the list
October 28th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Princess Diana flunked out of high-school,if she weren’t born into nobility,she would have sold icecream in street vendors,let alone become queen. The whole obsession with her is a sad celebration of profligacy. I’m quite glad she dead,she did nothing except parade expensive fabrics.I recommend the eulogy song from the chaser’s war on everything.(Australian Show)
October 28th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
You sure went easy on Teddy Kennedy. The philandering drain clog was out partying with some younger women when he missed the bridge, went into the water and left the young woman to die, trapped like a rat. Authorities paid off and others threatened to keep their mouths shut by the all powerful Kennedy clan and their corrupt cohorts. And to some Teddy’s some sort of hero. It’s appalling.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
What`s A little to American mean ?
October 28th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Casey Jones? The hockey masked cricket bat wielding vigilante from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? I didnt know he was dead!!
DAMN YOU!!! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!
October 28th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Avi, if the list were titled ‘10 People Made MORE Famous By Their Deaths’, then you would certainly have a point. As it is, being married to the heir of the English throne and then instigating a royal crisis by divorcing said heir did raise her public profile somewhat – you know, to the point where most people in the western world knew who she was. Hardly obscurity.
October 28th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
But I will admit to sharing your bafflement at the praise and adulation heaped on a proven adulterer and shameless self-promoter.
October 28th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
It’s funny that I’ve lived in Connecticut for eighteen years and I have never heard Nathan Hale called our official state hero.
October 28th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
how about that monk who immolated himself for the fall of communism. he has become famous for his death. i was surprised he wasn’t on here.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
i dont know any of these people!
October 28th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
J. D. Tippit, I’d never heard of – if we’re talking about someone famous by the Kennedy murder I would think Jack Ruby would be more famous.
October 28th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Mom424: Ah, thanks for the extra clarification! I had already known a bit about the Terry Melcher bit, just somehow didn’t know the other facts surrounding it.
October 28th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Avi and littlemissrock
Look, I agree with you that Diana may have had more popularity than she deserved and that the only reason she was famous was because she got married to (and divorced) a member of the royal family. That is not the point of this list. This list is people who became famous because of their death. I maintain that Diana was world famous before she died and it was not her death that was the cause of it. Thats all I’m saying.
October 28th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Very interesting list. #2 really surprised me; I had never heard of that little boy.
(I somewhat expected to see JonBenet Ramsey on this list though..)
Still, a depressing, horrible, sad, and very good list.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
85. Chris: It’s funny that I’ve lived in Connecticut for eighteen years and I have never heard Nathan Hale called our official state hero.
****
That’s not funny. That’s sad. I assume you went to some sort of school during those 18 years. You should have learned about Nathan Hale somewhere around 5th grade.
Seriously, this is pathetic.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
10 The LaBiancas: I read Helter Skelter years ago. It was truly creepy.
6 Edward Slovik: It made me cry. People who hate, I just dont understand.
2 James Bulger: He has been on ‘Verse before. It always saddens me. So much. How did his mother ever cope? I have no idea. It would kill me.
There was a young boy here in Chicago who was killed recently. If he had been at school, he would never have been killed. But it was a Teacher Development Day. No school for kids. Complete waste. I will never forget. Ever.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Good idea for a list, but I mean, I don’t know any of these people’s names. I knew about 2 from the list from the stories, but that was it.
I would’ve had some proper names on that list, names that most would know. Daniel Pearl, Lindow Man, Louis Slotin, Jennifer Strange, Brittanie Cecil, Oofty Goofty. There’s loads of more interesting ones.
October 28th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
thomas more could have possibly made this list in my opinion… but good list overall
October 28th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
how come guy moquet isn’t there? he should be.
October 28th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
94. Jono, I don’t know how old you are, or what country you call home, but to be unaware of *ANY* of these people tells me two things:
1 – you are quite young
and
2 – you live in a country without access to, or interest in, the wider world around you.
Alternately, it could be all on you, and you could have been living with your head in the sand all of your young life.
I suggest you become acquainted with the daily news, both domestic and foreign. It will be a life altering experience.
There is *NO* excuse for not knowing who these people are. It’s just basic common knowledge. I’ll cut you cut you some slack for being young and unfinished, but sometimes you have to take your education into your own hands. It sounds as if this is one of this times.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Jono
Your list is great, except Oofty Goofty, he’s just weird.
Although I didn’t recognize many of those names until I looked them up….I guess that makes them genuine 15 minute wonders…..
I guess fame is a relative thing…
October 28th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
segue: give Jono credit for Daniel Pearl. I don’t know any of the other names s/he lists. What does that make me? (I just had to check that s/he wasn’t making up “Oofty Goofty”.)
One quibble about the intro: Andy Warhol didn’t say that every man (sic) would have 15 minutes of fame, or at least not in those exact words. His original statement was “In the future everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes”. He later rephrased that slightly as “In the future everyone will be famous for fifteen minutes” (which is a slightly smaller concept). He then got cute and said, variously, “In the future 15 people will be famous” and “In 15 minutes everybody will be famous”. (mostly from wiki)
The exact phrase “15 minutes of fame” would seem to be someone else’s paraphrase of Warhol.
For the sake of the Australians reading this: Azaria Chamberlain.
Tenebrae (88): Jack Ruby didn’t die that die. By the time he died he was already (in)famous for shooting Oswald.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Tenebrae: Sorry, just re-read your 88. You didn’t state that Ruby did die that day. It is true that he did become (in)famous, more so that Tippett.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
others come to mind:
Selena – Ritchie Valens
also – The Black Delilah (which is on other list)
Then of course Natalie Holloway and probably Adam Walsh, Jo-net Ramsey attracting mass media attention.
#2 very scary. Weren’t those boys released when they became adults. Kid shares a name with mob on the run- James “Whitey” Bulger.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Donna answered my question. James Dean? As usual I’m thinking celebrity.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
astraya: Azaria Chamberlain was the baby that was murdered/ taken by a dingo, right?
jbjr: Selena was made more famous by her death, but she was already a fairly popular star in Mexico before she died, I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong.
October 28th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Anon E Mouse: Maybe! It’s still not certain that the dingo dunnit. “While the case is officially unsolved, the report of a dingo attack is generally accepted. Recent deadly dingo attacks in other areas of Australia have strengthened the case for the dingo theory.” (wiki)
October 29th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Anon – no your right. I think she was beginning to get more
mainstream play or on the verge of being a music superstar in US (besides TX CA)
I myyself never heard of her but my brother saw her in concert in LA.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:34 am
never heard of her before her murder, i mean.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:04 am
I would DEFINITELY add Emmett Till and Kitty Genovese to this list. JonBenet Ramsey and Daniel Pearl are also good ones.
Also – Cassie Bernall, the subject of the book “She Said Yes”, which I’m sure American readers will recognize right away. It was a huge story after the Columbine shootings that she was asked if she believed in God, said yes, and was shot. (Later, it was found out this didn’t actually happen, but she is famous for it nonetheless.)
October 29th, 2008 at 1:56 am
For the sake of the Australians reading this: Azaria Chamberlain
astraya – good choice. I remember reading the newspapers and watching the tv news in NZ as the whole saga unfolded in real time. That little girl would be, like, around 30 years old now. The interest in NZ was high because the father was a kiwi.
I still think the dingo was innocent…
October 29th, 2008 at 4:20 am
Black Dahlia?
I thought that James Bulger was killed in Liverpool too. And the two boys have been released and their new identities kept secret.
Totally agree on Azaria Chamberlain case, but Anne Frank was famous because of her diary, not because she died.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:42 am
what about that woman in the new york hospital who collapsed in the waiting room and was completely ignored until after an hour someone decided to do something. I know she’s not famous or anything but it’s still shocking – much worse, in my opinion, than the kitty genovese story. Here’s the link:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9lKUwBCIBzA
October 29th, 2008 at 4:42 am
*died not collapsed
October 29th, 2008 at 4:55 am
I don’t want to sound rude but to be honest most of these people aren’t famous because of their deaths – they’re famous in America because of their deaths. Surely there are other more significant deaths than that of ‘American heroes’? Seriously, what about Sarah Payne or Jessica and Holly?
October 29th, 2008 at 5:12 am
kiwiboi: She was born in 1980, so she would have just turned 28. The dingo has never been charged!
October 29th, 2008 at 5:35 am
The dingo has never been charged!
astraya – indeed
October 29th, 2008 at 5:54 am
Chloe – Whilst the list is possibly more relevant to Americans than non-Americans, I’m not American, and there were only 2 that I had not heard of (#3 and #6).
And not all are “American heroes”.
Also, whilst you mention Sarah Payne and Jessica and Holly…tragic though these cases were/are, I would not really expect anybody outside of the UK to be familiar with them.
And you will, of course, have noted that Jamie Bulger was on the list.
As an aside, I’m sure that Americans would immediately understand the circumstances of the Sarah Payne tragedy if they were told that the UK is piloting new legislation called “Sarah’s Law” that emulates “Megan’s Law” (the latter with which they will be very familiar).
October 29th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Gee, slightly off-topic, but in keeping with some of the military content of the list itself…I just came across this on the BBC News website :
“The respected American author Joseph E Persico has calculated a shocking figure that the final day of WWI would produce nearly 11,000 casualties, more than those killed, wounded or missing on D-Day, when Allied forces landed en masse on the shores of occupied France almost 27 years later.
What is worse is that hundreds of these soldiers would lose their lives thrown into action by generals who knew that the Armistice had already been signed.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7696021.stm
Interesting and poignant article…
October 29th, 2008 at 7:22 am
When I saw the title of the list the first folks I thought about were Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. Anyone??
October 29th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Astraya and Anon E. Mouse – I just had one of those old memory splashes in my head from the Seinfeld sitcom of the early 90’s: “Maybe the dingo ate your baby…(said with a terrible American Cockney-Aussie accent)” It was toooo funny in the sitcom, but to serious as a real possibility… a scary thought for any parent.
October 29th, 2008 at 7:33 am
kiwiboi(116) – don’t forget the German losses on D-Day as well (it looks like the WWI count is a total count of both sides in the article)… which was estimated at 4000-9000 men as well. This puts the total casualties of D-Day at about 16,000 (conservative average estimate).
October 29th, 2008 at 7:34 am
What about Tupac?
October 29th, 2008 at 8:03 am
JayArr – indeed. We’ll never learn…
October 29th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Jono #94 – Brittanie Cecil’s case, that is similar to people having strokes after having their necks cracked by chiroprators.
Jbjr #102 – I think James Dean was considered famous before of his car accident death. He was only at the beginning of his acting career.
Nikki #109 – I completely agree with you about Anne Frank! She would never have been famous without the diary! Would she still be famous if she hadn’t died, but the diary published?
October 29th, 2008 at 10:28 am
astraya: Re: Andy Warhol. By the time he died, he couldn’t have told you *what* he’d said. Or when. Or why. He hadn’t even been producing his own artwork for years.
Sad. Sad. Sad.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I read a lot of true crime, and when I read the story of James Bulgar and the most recent articles about his killers, I can honestly say it is “chilling”. I have heard that word used to describe stories, but now I really feel it.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
What about Martin Luther King, right before his death he was extremely unpopular, his methods of peace and not taking violent action was not getting much results. But when he died was when civil rights movements started snowballing
October 29th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Paulb: MLK might have been extremely unpopular, but he famous.
I’ve just been doing calculations. Assuming 6 billion people, allotting 15 minutes is going to take 1.5 billion hours = 62.5 million days = approx 171,232 years assuming that only one person is famous at a time. Even allowing for 1,000 famous people at a time, it is still going to take 171 years to get through everyone, in which time most of us have died. We’d better get started. My time starts … now!
I was once a world record holder. Yes, really. I was once the world’s youngest person!
October 29th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
He was famous.
Time’s up (and due to a connection problem I may have got a minute or two more). Damn. That was nowhere near as much fun as I thought it would be.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:55 am
Brittanie Cecil’s case, that is similar to people having strokes after having their necks cracked by chiroprators.
Ernmas – perhaps; though the bad press given to chiropractors in this regard does seem somewhat dubious.
Remember that the vast majority of people go to a chiropractor because they are unwell; some of the symptoms they are suffering (various aches and pains) can be symptomatic of existing and undiagnosed pulmonary issues. That is to say, maybe they would have died/had a stroke in any case…?
October 30th, 2008 at 2:22 am
segue – I agree with your comments about Warhol.
Personally, I always had an empathy with Warhol as a person, but I thought his art was grossly overrated (even the earlier works). I thought I was alone on this last point, until I read articles by the renowned (Australian) art critic Robert Hughes who knew Warhol. Whilst Hughes is not wholly negative on Warhol, he is astounded at the “collect Warhol” mania amongst wealthy individual collectors.
October 30th, 2008 at 2:44 am
How about Thomas Becket, Anne Boleyn, Mary Queen of Scots?
Or, much more recently, Ron Goldman, along with Nicole Brown Simpson?
Also, King Harold at the Battle of Hastings (the one who allegedly died after being shot through the eye with an arrow) as portrayed in the Bayeux Tapestry.
Not to mention all of the Christian saints?
Good list though. The picture of James Bulger is heartbreakingly beautiful. His killers should never have seen the light of day again.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:37 am
Just hearing the name James Bulger makes my gut twist in anger… He would have been 18 this year…
on another note, apologies for annoying people with my first comment… after having spent 2 weeks reading every single list on this site im came to 2 conclusions… number 1, that i love this site and should immediately register myself as a user, so i did and thought the first comment would be a cheeky way to intro myself to everyone… and number 2, purely because of the brilliant idea of creating listverse, i think i have a teensy crush on jfrater…
anyways… its nice to meet you all!
October 30th, 2008 at 3:58 am
Tigerlilly: How “non-famous” were an archbishop, a queen consort, a queen and a king during their lifetimes?
AniH: Welcome. There’s a queue for people with crushes of various sizes on jfrater. Have you seen http://listverse.com/about?
October 30th, 2008 at 4:16 am
astraya: wish you hadnt told me about that… im not gonna be able to get any work done now… gonna get fired for sure!
October 30th, 2008 at 6:37 am
what about lupe valez. all she wanted was to be remembered
she planned everything. does hair, make up flowers around the bed. everything. she takes the overdose and lays down on the bed imagining how beautiful she will look on the front of all the papers the next day. unfortunately the pills don’t set well with her last meal. she stumbles into the loo to throw up but trips goes head first into the toilet and that is how they found her.
it didn’t turn out as she planned but it worked out, all she wanted was to be remembered
October 30th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Hi astraya,
Re: Becket, Boleyn, Harold et al:
Of course they’d still be known historically, but they are rather more ‘famous’ for the infamous ways in which they died, wouldn’t you say?
October 30th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Adam Walsh?
October 30th, 2008 at 10:47 am
129. kiwiboi: Yes, I’ve read the Hughes and agree with him. Oddly so, perhaps, as I actually knew Warhol, though quite peripherally and very early.
I had a strange late adolescence.
October 30th, 2008 at 10:50 am
136. Ellycat: Adam Walsh?
****
In order not to embarrass yourself, it helps to actually read the posts above your own before posting.
Adam Walsh has been suggested more than once.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
#128 kiwiboi – I would disagree with the bad press that chiropractors get over this problem. People go to the chiropractor for reasons other than a stroke symptom (slurred speech, paralyzed on one side, etc). I also think it is a matter of a safe way to crack the neck. The force of someone else applying the manipulation. Ugh!
I personally wouldn’t ever have someone else crack my neck. I have arthritis there and my first symptom was my neck cracking when I tried to stretch it! Because of the disk sitting so close to my spine it is dangerous for it to crack. BTW – my doctor was the first to notify me of this when going through PT for my neck. He told me not to have them crack it.
October 30th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Ernmas – actually, I’m not sure we’ll ever get a definitive answer on this one. My comments are based (for what it is worth) on personal experience. I pinched a nerve in my lower shoulder earlier this year, to the extent that I couldn’t move my arm, couldn’t lie down etc etc. And I’m a guy who is never sick and has probably visited a doctor maybe twice in the past 20 years.
Anyway, a woman at work insisted that I should see a chiropractor rather than a regular doctor (based on her own experiences). Realising that neck-cracking would likely be a part of the “cure”, I was a little apprehensive. So, given that my work is largely quant analysis in the financial markets, the first thing I did was research the statistics pertaining to “death-by-chiropractor”.
Long story short…I could find no statistical significance that gave me any cause for concern; my own unscientific view is that these exceedingly (*exceedingly*) rare cases of chiro patients dying subsequent to a neck-cracking is that these people already had a serious health issue that was very likely not understood to be life-threatening. A little further research found one or two orthodox medical practioners also (somewhat grudgingly) conceding this same point.
So, a purely anecdotal analysis – but I’m still here
BTW…the chiro (without any prompting or signs of anxiety on my part) was most careful to have me relaxed an correctly positioned prior to the neck cracking. And, I have to say…though it wasn’t a particularly enjoyable experience (though it didn’t hurt) I definitely gained some additional range of motion in my neck that I haven’t had for some years.
Did the chiro heal me? Well, after having said all of the above…I don’t think so. Much as I enjoyed the wonderful massages from the nice young Finnish chiro (female), I think that time was ultimately the healer (though, to be fair, she also thought that this would likely be the case).
October 30th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
I think it’s amusing that there are some people who, seeing a name unfamiliar with them, thinks then that *nobody* has ever heard of this person.
Perhaps it’s smart to do a little research before saying ‘but that person is not this or that’….
FWIW – I’d heard of everyone on this list, and you can do another whole list of names, in fact, I imagine such a list isn’t far away…
October 30th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Tigerlily – Of course. My point was that archbishops, queens, kings etc are famous in their own time and immediately afterwards, no matter how history does or doesn’t remember them.
Can anyone except a history buff name the previous archbishop of Canterbury (to Becket), Henry VII’s queen consort, the previous monarch of Scotland (to Mary) or the previous king of England (to Harold)? I can’t.
Anne Boleyn gets far more coverage than Catherine Howard. In fact I had to check Catherine’s name to make sure I’d got it right.
October 30th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
perhaps archduke ferdinand should be on the list?
i mean… his death DID trigger a world war
October 30th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
segue:
Well, baseless attack you have there. Not only have I just finished a round-the-world-trip, but I certainly do not have an issue with knowing history. Don’t even try and imply that. How rude.
These people on this list, are just not very famous at all. Furthermore, they’re not entirely famous for their DEATH. The act which kills them should be their sole claim to fame to be on this list. The names I submitted fulfill this claim, and are actually rather famous. Or at the least will acquire an “Oh that’s the guy who did that?”
So please, stick to your job and remember that listverse is not the place for baseless false comments.
October 31st, 2008 at 6:10 am
segue, what you said to juno was way out of line. just because you happen to know about one particular thing and someone else dosent does not make them completely oblivious to the entire subject at hand.
Just because i dont know most of the people on the list does not make me young, or un-educated. What if i just happen to not give a crap about american history? i mean, the world does not revolve around america you know.
October 31st, 2008 at 6:48 am
How about Terri Schiavo?
October 31st, 2008 at 7:12 am
144. Jono & 145. Du: You are absolutely correct.
I stand properly chastised. I was way out of line, and I sincerely apologize.
October 31st, 2008 at 7:39 am
segue:
in MY humble opinion you were NOT out of line, in fact.
October 31st, 2008 at 8:08 am
Thank you, Randall.
I have no emotional defenses today, I am naked before my enemy.
October 31st, 2008 at 9:00 am
segue:
Nah. We have you covered.
October 31st, 2008 at 9:31 am
and i THANK you for your most sincere apology.
Now let us move away from such petty arguments and back to the topic at hand.
I am sure it wasent just Americans who were famous because they died. Let us see if we cant extract some of those people from hiding.
October 31st, 2008 at 9:44 am
I agree with Randall, segue. You didn’t cross any lines. Jono was complaining that the list was either too antiquated or not dumbed down enough. I feel that anyone that wants to put themselves out there like that is cruising for some flaming. Now, there are lines around that- no need to call them names or insult their family/mother/friends/country of origin. But you didn’t go there. Jono started out by saying the list was crap because his/her favorite names didn’t appear.
82. August Grey: *blinkblink* Oh, wow. I remember that guy. He hooked up with April in the movie.
October 31st, 2008 at 11:05 am
Du:
Instead of playing the scold, and then criticizing the list for too much American content, suggest some alternative names.
Jono:
I’m sorry, but you did deserve a bit of what you got from segue. Your latest post just serves to reinforce that. I sincerely hope you got something OUT of the “round the world trip” you just took, but you clearly DO have a problem with knowing history.
The statement “These people on this list, (sic) are just not very famous at all” is ludicrous. What’s your definition of fame? I think you confuse “fame” with “celebrity.”
The “Tate/La Bianca Murders” is how the Manson Family killings have been known ever since the case against Manson and his followers was made. SURELY the Manson killings are famous—it’s a basic bit of cultural knowledge in regards to the Sixties–not essential knowledge, but basic.
Mary Jo Kopechne’s name is WELL known due to the circumstances of her death, in being attached to Ted Kennedy’s. Again, it’s a basic piece of culture from that period—not essential–little of this is—but WIDELY known. ANYONE with ANY standard awareness of the history of the last 50 years of this country should know her name and the significance of it. The incident destroyed Ted Kennedy’s hopes for the presidency, in effect ending the dynastic ambitions of the Kennedy family for good. Hardly trivial or esoteric.
I could in fact go ON AND ON, and the answer would be the same for each of these choices. They are FAMED individuals in history, whose deaths turned on key events.
But your next statement was even sillier: “Furthermore, they’re not entirely famous for their DEATH. The act which kills them should be their sole claim to fame to be on this list.”
WHAT? I have to wonder if you even READ the list in the slightest—or read that statement before you posted it! EACH AND EVERY *ONE* of these people were UTTERLY OBSCURE, common folk with NO claim to fame of ANY kind during their lives, and the SOLE reason their names became ensconced in the zeitgeist, if you will, is BECAUSE of their deaths and the CIRCUMSTANCES of their deaths. We would NEVER have heard of the La Biancas, Kopechne, Tippit, Slovik, John Birch, Wessel, Jones, Crispus Attucks, Bulger or Hale if NOT for their untimely deaths! They were, and would have been–but for their deaths–utterly unknown.
No, Jono—your lack of basic knowledge of cultural events is showing. I wouldn’t expect everyone to know the names Eddy Slovik or JD Tippit or James Bulger… and perhaps not Wessel or even the La Biancas if we pushed matters. (Nevertheless, they’re all still very well known and if anyone professes to have even a working knowledge of historically recent events, they should know these names). But Nathan Hale? Crispus Attucks? Casey Jones (a folk legend!) John Birch? (The John Birch society is a WELL known ultra-right wing kook organization and HAS been for the last 50+ years). Come now. To confess ignorance of these people is to confess ignorance of history. Pure and simple.
October 31st, 2008 at 11:30 am
Jono:
A follow up, something I forgot to add to my previous post.
You referenced the following names in your original comment as superior choices to the ones presented here.
Daniel Pearl – journalist murdered by Islamic extremists
Lindow Man – better known as one of the “Bog People” discovered in, if I recall correctly, the Flemish part of Belgium.
Louis Slotin – Physicist from the Manhattan Project, killed by an overdose of radiation.
Jennifer Strange and Brittanie Cecil – I frankly had to look these two up—but recalled their deaths as soon I found them online. Strange was killed by water intoxication during a radio competition, Cecil died when hit by a puck at a hockey game.
Oofty Goofty – another I had to look up—an obscure vaudvillian who, as far as I could tell, was NOT famous on account of his death.
Now… the interesting thing here is, you pass over truly HISTORICAL figures (Nathan Hale, Kopechne, John Birch, etc.) whose deaths EITHER left an almost immediate stamp on HISTORY in some form or other, or whose deaths actually INFLUENCED history directly… you pass over these people for…. people such as a woman killed at a hockey game by a puck, and a woman who died from drinking too much water.
The pattern I see here is reaching for *celebrity* over actual historical personage. (It’s also interesting that you reached, for the most part, for the trivial and obscure over actual well-known, culture-basic names like Hale’s and Attucks’, etc. which suggests to me that you are one of these people who tries to show off one’s knowledge of esoterica as a substitution for deeper awareness of the “culture base.”) Let’s examine it more closely:
Daniel Pearl: a tragedy, but his death is a footnote. It changed nothing (except perhaps outraging people for a time–but outrage is quickly extinguished in our jaded era—and scaring his fellow journalists). So too are some of the deaths on the original list–footnotes–but there are footnotes and there are footnotes. The fact is that every single person’s death on the original list–with maybe only a couple exceptions–had some kind of historical resonance BEYOND their deaths. Pearl’s did not and will not.
The same can be said for Strange and Cecil… small tragedies, yes… but historically significant? Not in the least. Fame, in an historical sense? No. (certainly not of any long-lasting kind… there’s no doubt they will not be remembered a hundred years hence). A brief kind of twisted, sad celebrity? Perhaps yes. But that’s all.
Slotin is a better suggestion–but hardly MORE fitting than the names originally presented.
As for Lindow Man—in an indirect sense one might argue that his death is what made him famous… but in fact it is the discovery of his corpse, so very well preserved, that explains the fame of this individual whose true name we’ll never know–as well as the manner of his death, evidently as a sacrifice. Yes, his death is connected to the center of this—but in actuality, one can no more say that Lindow Man is “famous” because of his death than any other well-preserved mummy found anywhere in the world. What actually makes these mummies key finds–besides the nature of their deaths, if that is unique (Lindow Man’s was)–is that they ARE finds–they are preserved remains from a period of time when we ordinarily do NOT get preserved remains.
In this sense, Lindow Man is also a good suggestion–but also not as DIRECTLY applicable to the subject of the list as the original choices… and certainly no MORE famed. The same could be said for the Ice Man, Lindow Man’s Alpine cousin, as it were.
October 31st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Frankly, I think it’s a slap in the face of the family of David Pearl to suggest that he’s only famous because of his death. It made him *more* famous, but he was already somewhat known. He wrote for several newspapers, including the Wall Street Journal. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that David Pearl was more famous than anyone commenting to this list BEFORE he was beheaded.
October 31st, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Randal> points at 143
October 31st, 2008 at 3:44 pm
suggesting names even before the whole series of disagreements began
October 31st, 2008 at 4:22 pm
155. Cedestra: Right. He was a well known journalist with a bright future.
October 31st, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Randall:
Again, you completely missed the point. Not only did I say I knew of some of the stories, which you ignored and took an out-of-context quote to base your fallacious argument on.
Again, note the footnote. The Warhol quote doesn’t bear any significance?
Furthermore, I don’t even want to bother arguing more with you anymore. If I remember correctly, you never liked me to begin with. Your attacks are based on personal preference, not genuine intellectual differences. I presented a valid argument; that many of the names are not properly famous: Horst Wessel and Mary Jo Kopechne being the main two grievances.
November 1st, 2008 at 9:45 am
Jono:
I missed no points, nor were my arguments “fallacious.” You, on the other hand, prattled a lot of nonsense and clearly don’t like being called out on it.
“Your attacks are based on personal preference, not genuine intellectual differences.”
Hardly. I don’t even remember you–but obviously you have some grievance against me. One might say, then, that your accusation should be turned around to reflect on YOU. At any rate, I presented a very cogent and reasoned argument for why you were incorrect here.
“I presented a valid argument;”
I beg to differ. Your “argument,” such as it was, made little or no sense–calling for the replacement of names on this list like Mary Jo Kopechne with someone like Cecil–is absurd. I detailed why.
“that many of the names are not properly famous: Horst Wessel and Mary Jo Kopechne being the main two grievances.”
And again, you fail to explain what you mean by “properly famous.” Horst Wessel is a key figure (albeit a trivial one) in the *cultural* history of Nazi Germany. I wouldn’t expect the average guy on the street to know the name–but I bet a lot of Europeans do, particularly Germans–and certainly ANYONE who knows ANYTHING of the history of Nazi Germany and WWII knows the name.
As for Kopechne–you’re so far out on a limb there that it’s flat out ridiculous. I’ve already stated why.
November 1st, 2008 at 10:06 pm
What about Kitty Genovese and the Black Dahlia?
November 2nd, 2008 at 8:18 am
Kiwiboi – my original point wasn’t that people necessarily died from having their necks cracked, it was the fact that doing so could jar or disrupt the artery in the neck and cause a stroke. Ms. Cecil’s incident was a severe case due to the hockey puck’s speed hitting her and snapping her neck back.
I’m sorry your pinched nerve hasn’t been cured adequately. I can commiserate with you on the pain you feel. Some time and little strain on the injury should help heal it. Good luck!
November 2nd, 2008 at 10:12 am
kiwiboi: re your pinched nerve. See a neurologist.
This is an area of personal expertise.
November 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 am
my original point wasn’t that people necessarily died from having their necks cracked, it was the fact that doing so could jar or disrupt the artery in the neck and cause a stroke. Ms. Cecil’s incident was a severe case due to the hockey puck’s speed hitting her and snapping her neck back.
Ernmas – it would be foolish to deny the possibility. But, I would reiterate the same point I made earlier – it seems that where there has been potential/possible culpability on the part of a chiro (ie. when a patient has apparently suffered a disorder or death as a result of treatment) there’s a likelihood that there was already an existing, maybe latent, malady.
Do you know of studies that suggest something different? Given the barely disguised disdain that some of the medical profession seems to have for the chiro profession, there is bound to be something.
As an aside, I also did a little quick-and-dirty study on the Cecil incident, because I hadn’t heard of it before. Here’s the view of the Coroner (a Dr Lewis) who performed the autopsy :
“Lewis said he consulted with other pathologists on the rarity of the injury. He said that a fellow pathologist had not encountered a similar injury and death in more than 25 years as a doctor.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/news/2002/03/20/puck_death_ap/
Oh…and thanks for the good wishes about my own pinched nerve. Actually, I get virtually no trouble at all from it now. Not 100% better…but at least 98%
November 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 am
segue – thanks for the advice. Actually, I didn’t really consider this as a first option, but would definitely have done so in due course.
From a practical perspective, the chiro offered to see me within a couple of hours of calling her; she even stayed late just for me.
But, I’m all better now, anyways
November 2nd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Kiwiboi – Okay, here goes. Check out this report from WebMD. I couldn’t find the original report on the study done by the University of California, but I don’t have much time to research it right now. Other sites also reference the University’s study. It apparently was also in Consumer Reports in August of 2005.
There is an increased risk of stroke from neck manipulation, proven in studies. I agree that it is not massive and death is even less likely to occur, but the potential still is in existence.
I am glad one of us actually has relief from their problems (even if you still have 2% left to go).
November 2nd, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Rememer that Mary Jo Kopechne, otherwise known as Teddy Kennedy’s victim, drowned. The coroner’s report stated that Mary Jo Kopechne had water in her lungs. The soon-to-be-dead creep ran off and left her to drown.
November 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
astraya, thats pretty clever, i held the same world record
November 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 am
Gosh, wow! What a coincidence! I wonder how many others there are!!
November 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 am
Jono,
Not sure exactly what your problem with Randall is but I find it hard to see anything out of context in the way Randall took your first sentence.
*Good idea for a list, but I mean, I don’t know any of these people’s names.*
Unless of course you did not mean that you knew none of the names which leaves me wondering why you therefore wrote it.
If however out of context means this *I knew about 2 from the list from the stories, but that was it.* from your second sentence then you really need to sort out your useage of the English language.
For myself I recognised and was immediately able to recall the rough details of only two of the names, whilst recognising another three names but not knowing a connection re their death. And the La Biancas I recognised as soon as I read the item. However from your your list I only recogniised the one name immediately (Pearl). Even after reading Randals quick explanations I still do not recognise ANY of the others. So which list is famous.
BTW The two I immediately recognised name and events, James Bulger and …Mary Jo Kopechne. And that is living in NZ aged 9 years old at the time of her death. I still remember the stories and furore over the attempts to cover up Teddys part in it.
Cheers
Lee
November 3rd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Ernmas – yes, I’d seen that study. But, as I’m sure you noticed, it involved only 51 patients of which only 14 even remembered getting their necks manipulated. Note, too, that the article quotes a clinical professor of neurology at the University of California, who says “their evidence that spinal manipulation is a major cause of stroke is weak.”
But to put it into perspective, the odds of suffering a stroke as a result of chiro manipulation are variously quoted as being between 400,000:1 and 5,000,000:1. Either way, these odds are statistically insignificant. For perspective, lets assume the worst; that the odds are 400,000:1. These are similar odds to you getting hit by lightning in any given year.
However, Ernmas, I don’t think we are disagreeing in any material way. By definition, the probability of damage occuring as a result of a spinal or neck manipulation must be higher than if you don’t have the manipulation.
November 3rd, 2008 at 5:56 pm
This is my first time posting on this website, which I have visited countless times. I just want to throw out the name Nick Markowitz. He was killed over his brother’s drug money and they made a movie “Alpha Dog” out of it. Sad story.
November 4th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Cool list, but john Birch looks older then 50, but he’s dead at age 27? (see date of birth and death)
November 5th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I think Matthew Shepard should’ve been on the list. No one knew who he was until he was murdered, and now his name is familiar to people like me, who live on the other side of the world. He fits in the list criteria 100%.
November 14th, 2008 at 11:37 am
how about Vic Morrow?he died before i was born but i think he should be mentioned.So should the two kids killed with him.Decapitation is not a nice way to go
November 14th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Good list. Dunno more than half of people in the list though. I know James Bulger, read about his story in a crime stories site about a year ago. It made me really sad, his story.
November 15th, 2008 at 2:47 am
emmitt till, the black dahlia, and jonbenet ramsey could all be honorable mentions, but the latter is probably the only one known outside the usa.
princess diana was already hugely popular before her death. maybe alot of people abroad only saw her as prince charles ex-wife, but i remember her being extremely popular in the usa as a celebrity and for donating to aids charities. her death maybe controversial, but it hardly made her famous. after all it was her ‘celebrity’ status that had the paparazzi following her thus causing the wreck. duh.
as for selena; i doubt many people outside of texas knew who she was before or after her death. she was a tejano singer and tejano is indigenous to texas, not the rest of the usa, let alone the world.
as for lindow man, not that many people are familiar with the bog men and putting someone on the list simply b/c their body was found by someone doesn’t make them famous due to their death. by that reasoning we could list the ‘tomb of the unknown soldier’.
to #125, Paulb:
how could you say that martin luther king wasn’t famous until his death?! the montgomery bus boycott, the march on washington, ‘i have a dream’ speech?! thousands of people don’t gather at the washington monument to hear a speech by someone they’ve never heard of. television stations don’t broadcast speeches made by anyone. and there’s the fact that he was ‘assassinated’. that word specifically means that the person killed was of great importance and popularity and he was assassinated because of his importance to the civil rights movement.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:13 am
Ted Kennedy repulses me.
‘Nuff said.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
This list was published verbatim in the Book of Lists II. Plagiarism no?
January 12th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Jlerner: if you read the sources and search the text of the items, you will find that Wikipedia was the source and hence it is under the GFDL.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
people made famous by theirt deaths??
I dont know any of them
stop showing just ppl fron north america on ur lists!!
its a big world!!
February 17th, 2009 at 11:07 am
post 182 wouldn’t be so disturbing but Jessica is actually 42
April 13th, 2009 at 5:17 am
I’m amazed nobody has mentioned Emily Davison.A suffragette, she drew public attention to the cause by throwing herself under the King’s horse in the 1913 Derby.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Number nine would have been better labeled as “murder.” She did not die instantly, or even during the usual course of drowning due to an air bubble she was trapped in. Kennedy changed his clothes and returned to the party, pretending nothing had happened. The act of an innocent man? No.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:35 am
I live in Bootle (and was at the Strand shopping centre today, it is 5 minutes down the road from me now) and I have never heard of James Buldger, I would have been 2 at the time it happened so I guess that is why. Hmm, might look it up.
June 29th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
what about Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia ?!??!
October 24th, 2009 at 10:19 am
they should put anne frank here!
November 2nd, 2009 at 2:51 pm
NTHAN HALE IS HOT! JK