“Firsts” are often interesting because they are groundbreaking, or give us a new way of looking at things. The “firsts” on this list are all tragic as they involve death or dying. There are, of course, many thousands of significant first events and in the future we will look at many others.
First: Person to be killed on a ride in Disneyland
15 year old Mark Maples stood up while riding the Matterhorn Bobsleds and fell. According to Disneyland officials, he was “catapulted from the speeding car.” He landed on the track a few feet down, with a skull fracture and various internal injuries. He never regained consciousness, and died four days later.
First: Mortality in an airplane crash
He was the passenger when Wilbur Wright crashed a US War Department test plane. Selfridge had also been the first military officer to pilot an airplane, and is credited with designing the Aerial Experimental Association’s first airplane, the “Red Wing.”
First: Woman ever executed by the United States Government
Mary Surratt was executed for being a conspirator in the Lincoln assassination. She was hanged along with several other convicted conspirators.
First: Suicide assisted by Jack Kevorkian
Janet Elaine Adkins was 54 and a former college instructor on disability when she decided to commit suicide the day she was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease. Kevorkian (pictured above) agreed to help without ever speaking to her, only her husband.
First: “Witch” to be hung in Salem, Massachusetts
According to Wikipedia, she was “Reputedly outspoken, flashy in her costume (by Puritan standards), perhaps unruly in her behavior, and a prior victim of witchcraft accusations. Bishop may have been an obvious choice to be the first person hanged. Bishop was close to 60 years old at the time of her death.”
First: Person to die of Legionnaire’s Disease
In July 1976, the American Legion held a convention at the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia to celebrate the country’s bicentennial. Within two days after the start of the event, one veteran after another became ill with an acute pneumonia illness. Ultimately, 221 patients were stricken, and 34 patients eventually died of this mysterious epidemic which came to be known as Legionnaires’ Disease (pictured above).
First: Number one criminal on the FBI’s most wanted list
John Dillinger was the first to hold the title “public enemy number one.” He was shot in the streets of Chicago by FBI agents.
First: US President to die in office
According to Wikipedia, “Harrison’s doctors tried cures, applying opium, castor oil, Virginia snakeweed, and even actual snakes. But the treatments only made Harrison worse, and he became delirious. He died nine days after becoming ill, at 12:30 a.m., on April 4, 1841, of right lower lobe pneumonia, jaundice, and overwhelming septicemia, becoming the first American president to die in office. His last words were to his doctor, but assumed to be to John Tyler, “Sir, I wish you to understand the true principles of the government. I wish them carried out. I ask nothing more.” Harrison served the shortest term of any American president: only 30 days, 12 hours and 30 minutes.”
First: Human to die during a space mission
Vladimir Komarov was the first human to have been confirmed to die during a space mission, on Soyuz 1, and the first Soviet cosmonaut to travel into space more than once.
First: Victim of Jack the Ripper
Prostitute Mary Ann Nichols, the first victim of London serial killer “Jack the Ripper,” was found murdered and mutilated in Whitechapel’s Buck’s Row. The East End of London saw several more victims of the murderer during the next few months, but no suspect was ever found.
Contributor: rushfan
























December 27th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Jack will be back
December 27th, 2008 at 1:29 am
Ah, the witch trials…nice list. I suppose we’ve learned not to stand up on theme park rides, now…
December 27th, 2008 at 1:36 am
nice list and I’m the second yey yey!!
December 27th, 2008 at 1:36 am
I wish we new more about the Jack the ripper case.. it was interesting. i wonder what was going on in his mind..
December 27th, 2008 at 1:57 am
Argh!~ more Jack the Ripper!
It’s such a fascinating story that we will never know the ending to.
Great List.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:14 am
The date for #6 should be 1692, not 1962.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:18 am
rushfan- I kind of doubt that Bridget Bishop was killed during the salem witch trials in 1962. I thought that was a while ago?
December 27th, 2008 at 2:35 am
interesting……
December 27th, 2008 at 2:36 am
Parker: I agree – I would love to do a Jack the Ripper based list at some point in the future. I will definitely keep it in mind.
And thanks for those who pointed out the error – I will correct it
December 27th, 2008 at 2:42 am
I love lists like these – well done.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:42 am
First time ever I post here, been reading lists here for a while. First of all: great site, I have learned a lot of trivial facts here (which I love).
Second: why do things involving death fascinate people? I found this extremely intresting, but it’s so morbid.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:47 am
NK: i agree i have no idea i am drawn to it as well i was thinking that. But i like reading about it.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:47 am
Very entertaining, yet brief list. Interesting no less.
I think peoples fascination with death has to do with are own fear of it among other things.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:48 am
“are” should “our” from my previous post. Sorry, its almost 2:00 AM here. I should be asleep!
December 27th, 2008 at 2:52 am
For Janet Adkins, Dr Kevorkian did speak to her. The court records state that on a taped interview he relied “largely on the statements of her husband and a few limited responses from Ms Adkins.” Here it sounds like they planned her death behind her back, which isn’t the case.
December 27th, 2008 at 3:19 am
I thought this was a really interesting list, but it was a little too short, however this is by far my favourite website and I come on here every day so who cares! BTW if anyone ever flgets the chance to go to London dungeons it’s fascinating and gruesome and they’ve got a really detailed part on jack the ripper that’s not for the faint hearted!
December 27th, 2008 at 3:21 am
*gets
December 27th, 2008 at 4:23 am
Also, #9 should say fatality in a plane crash, not mortality
December 27th, 2008 at 4:48 am
Number 7 about Kevorkian’s first assisted suicide is clearly written in a negative slant. Like is pointed out just a few comments above he did indeed speak to both husband and wife, it just happened to be the case that the wife was the quiet type, which is sort of reasonable considering she was planning her own suicide.
I wish that item would have been written with less bias, or perhaps less unfortunate wording if it was indeed accidental. I figure the debate about whether assisted suicide is tragic or significant should take place under a list of the top ten assisted suicides, not here, so trying to phrase the blurb on it in such a slanted way was rather bad judgement.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:48 am
#11 Mary Pickford. First Canadian to win an Oscar. 1929 for Coquette. Hollywood hasn’t been the same since!
December 27th, 2008 at 5:40 am
About no 7 it would have been nice if rushfan had written more than two sentences about the matter and gone slightly into a bit more detail.
On another point i feel assisted suicide is tragic and wrong because people who choose commit suicide most of the time just needed a bit of help and people like Kevorkian are just as bad as murderers infact they are murderers for cheating those people out of a better life.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:42 am
#9 is not the first fatality form a plane crash. He’s just the first fatality *after* the Wright brothers. Several died before the Wright brothers attempting to become the first.
December 27th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Good list, but I think this chap should get a notable mention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Huskisson
December 27th, 2008 at 7:50 am
lily_89 – Cheating them out of a better life? The reason he did what he did was to end their suffering. Assisted suicide is for those with NO chance of recovery.
If he didn’t help them, the “better life” for them would be constant pain and suffering.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:14 am
the woman kevorkian helped killed herself, presumably, because she had just been diagnosed with alzheimer’s. there is no “cure” right now, but might grandma has been cruising for 20 years now with that terrible disease with symptoms only popping up in the last couple.
suicide is maybe the most selfish act of humanity. helping someone out in that manner is an accomplice, not assistance.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Daisy, London dungeons? Where’s that?
December 27th, 2008 at 8:50 am
I would think that it would be hard to die or at least get severe injuries in Disneyworld since they have to subdue to all the requirements for a childs theme park..I mean they have to childproof many things.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Disney World has had 15 deaths since 1989. Mostly due to preexisting conditions (i.e. Heart problems, stroke, etc.).
December 27th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Interesting list!
December 27th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Hey DiscHuker, just a heads up.
Not everyone is like your grandma. Great for her if it is not such a bad thing for her, but everyone is different and some people have more advanced cases of Alzheimer’s.
Personally, I think Alzheimer’s is one of the worst diseases you could ever get. Forgetting your own children? Not being able to remember where you are or what you’re doing? Pretty scary.
You can look at suicide as being selfish, but I think it is pretty selfish for people like you to expect other people to live with their suffering just because *you* think it’s wrong to kill oneself.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:51 am
///15 year old Mark Maples stood up while riding the Matterhorn Bobsleds////
If that’s true then the ride didn’t kill him. He killed himself and deserves a “Darwin Award.”
December 27th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Interesting list Rushfan; novel idea.
How much you want to bet that had I lived in Salem I would have ended up swinging from that rope?
My opinion on assisted suicide/suicide is dependent on the circumstances in each case. I don’t think this is an area of black and white, but many shades of gray. I am old enough to have personal experience; relatives who have killed themselves selfishly and relatives and loved ones whom I wished could have been eased out of their suffering.
December 27th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Morbid trivia is the life blood of the List Universe. Brilliant!
December 27th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Can we change the title to this list as ‘10 Tragic and Significant American Firsts with a Few Token Entries from Other Countries to Look Less Blatant?’
December 27th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Funny assisted suicide should be on the list appearing the day after I mentioned that if not for medicine (pain-killers, in my case opiates), I would have had to kill my self. And I don’t believe in suicide! I believe it’s selfish, it damages everyone left behind irreparably.
Still, interesting list, rushfan, as are all of your lists.
December 27th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
a rather odd mix of firsts.
The Ripper case has held a deep fascination with many from then to now. Big Biznuss. There’s such a plethora of reports and lit on attempts at a solving who the killer was. The more recent book by crime novelist P.Corwell was a good read, but I was unconvinced that the british painter Walter Sickert was The One, although an interesting theory, none the less. Her attempt at getting a DNA match from saliva residue off the back of an original stamp (applied by The Ripper to one of his letters to the police) and connecting it to Sickert was inconclusive. She put A LOT of her own money and time in her research and you get the feeling, like many under the spell of obsession, that she attempted to formulate the answers she wanted to hear by “bending” her written descriptives for the reader to lean her way. One question I had, was about the hundreds (or was it thousands) of copy cat Ripper letters. There’s a possibility of Sickert creating some of the letters and not having been the killer. This just wasn’t explored in her book. That he used prostitutes for models and painted “imaginary” scenes” from the Camden Town murders is used as part of the case. Corwell compared Sickert paintings directly to the Ripper murders in the way that a room or body was found and depicted on Sickert’s canvas.. or how he painted certain features in his murder series , ie: how the paint might look like an intended knife cut–compared to the actual victims’ wounds.
Anyway , I read it a long time ago so I am probably missing many other points to be made. Just got me thinking.
Public Enemy No.1 , John Dillinger was like a latter-day witch hunt to prove the protective power of the FBI, and really, Hoover’s way of glorifying his self image and the role of the FBI as crime fighting heroic orginization for the moral good of the nation.
December 27th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
What a random list
I love it!
Well I learned many years ago not to stand on any ride! Even a silly small train ride, they stopped the stupid thing and screamed for me to sit down lol
December 27th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
cool list. death at disney land is a little random but still interesting.
December 27th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Everyone says suicide is such a selfish thing… Well, shouldn’t it be? It’s YOUR life. Nobody else should have any say in whether you live or die. If you are chronically ill, I don’t find it selfish at all to want to end your life. It is selfish of your family/friends to expect you to suffer only to hold off their own suffering. We will all die someday, so it’s really pointless to speak of how it affects your family/friends left behind.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Fascinating list! More, please!
Also, 39. Corey: You took the words right out of my mouth. Surely, if you were suffering, a loving family member would be happier for you passing on than suffering for years on their account. If anyone is selfish, it’s the family members who won’t let go.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
More firsts, please! Very interesting
December 27th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Many ‘ripperologists’ believe that Polly Nichols was not the Ripper’s virst victim. There is some evidence of other victims being tied to the case, but nothing conclusive.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Good post Diogenes.
I got the same feeling when reading that book. (bending the evidence to fit her theory)
She made the flimsiest evidence Sickert was the Jack the Ripper appear to be ‘hard’. It was almost laughable at times.
There wasn’t any proof that Sickert was even in London at the time of the murders.
Her response was basically “Well there wasn’t any proof that he wasn’t either”.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Another interesting list from rushfan.Wierd stuff like this is fascinating.Somebody give Hifo a bottle an send him/her/it to bed.Between the Christmas food post and this post im getting about sick of him/her/it`s rant about the U.S.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
44. bigski: I’m with ya, bigski.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
bigski, segue: Hear, Hear.
Folks need to realize that people write about things they know and are familiar with. A large portion of the contributors and viewers of this site are American therefore the lists are going to have a North American slant to them. It has nothing to do with xenophobia, but with knowledge. Lists (like the football one) written by non-Americans don’t have that slant. You want more international flavour, write an informative, interesting list and Jamie will publish it. But for goodness sakes stop complaining unless you’re willing to do something to address the issue.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Mom424, we, that is bigski and I, *are* Americans. It’s just that Hifo has been acting like an asshat, and a snotty-nosed little retart to boot, ranting on against America. We’re merely taking a stand against bad behavior. I hardly think one sentence from each of us is anything which requires an entire paragraph from you over. For goodness sake, that seems like a bit of an over-reaction to me, and not worthy of an entire list on any subject at all, unless you think one on Top 10 Over-Reactions sounds good.
December 27th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
wow now these are the kinds of lists i like to read . . interesting stuff! maybe needed to be a bit longer as in more dtailed but anyways pretty interesting!
December 27th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
I don`t understand.Did I get chewed out for firing back at a troll ?
December 27th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
49. bigski: I don`t understand.Did I get chewed out for firing back at a troll ?
****
Well, yeah. I fired back. Feel free to do likewise.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Segue; read again, I was agreeing with you. Totally.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Typical – Segue and Bigski ganging up to pick on someone making a contribution. You guys criticize and it’s OK – somebody else does and you go to town on them – but they’re not permitted to do the same – along with astraya, you three are just simply BULLIES – get over yourselves.
And as for Mom424 – she WAS agreeing with you before you flamed her. OWNED – Totally!
And don’t bother firing back – ’cause I’m not revisiting this list.
And Segue – so you’re on opiates – Big Deal – you’re not the only one in constant, chronic pain do as others like you do – live with it and stop fishing for sympathy. And before you fire back at me for that one – I am in the same boat: I just don’t advertise it.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
51. Mom424: You were indeed! I misread big time. My humblest apologies. At least when I make a mistake, I make a dandy! Consider me cowering at your feet for forgiveness, making little mewling noises.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Interesting to note, the town i live in, just outside Washington DC used to be named after Mary Surratt and her family. They owned a lot of the land in the area. In fact, the high school i graduated from is STILL called Surrattsville.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Good list rushfan. I lived in Michigan when Dr. Death was in full effect. He was a nut that thought he was a God that controlled life and death. He dared the law to convict him and he got his wish. I think he was finally released after a long prison sentence due to poor health. He set the cause of euthanasia back decades.
On a side note; I’m really disappointed with a lot of comments I’ve been reading lately. I’ve always held this site and JFrater to a slightly higher standard. It looks like this is just becoming another anything goes, free-for-all comment section. Too bad.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
55. MT -
“another anything goes, free-for-all comment section”
would you prefer each comment be held in moderation until reviewed by an admin? some places are like that. every single comment is reviewed by a real person before being released on site. which means a lot more volunteer admins or paid staff.
or take your chances w/ a free site that has a coupla volunteers. plus an established community that will confront commentors ..especially trollz, spammers and the like.
the 2nd option puts this in the court of the community.
so in effect your comment is directed at this community. that assessment being…FAIL.
so i put it to the community…
have YOU failed to keep commenting on track? if so..why?
and what say you to MT?
and no this is not an invitation to rake MT over the coals. MT’s got a legit complaint. and has been a frequent commentor here.
so proceed w/ caution in your response.
personally-
i think the community could do more. i understand sometimes you stick your foot out and get tromped on but …
at least speak up for the site so many of you spend so much of your time at…i mean, you do like it here, right?
so i’m all for more people contributing more varied and quality lists. more people confronting trollz. but doing so responsibly please. no need to turn this into a hate fest.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
First of all I would like to tell rushfan that I’m sorry if this sidebar detracts from your your list. Of course on the plus side you’ll get a lot more comments (if you keep “score” that way).
Cyn,
I don’t respond to trolls, I don’t argue pointlessly(unless it’s with randall) and I stay on point with comments pertaining to the list in question. If everyone did the same we could maintain the high standards this site deserves.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
MT-
comebacks. put ‘em their place. 
hey, i know what you’re saying. unfortunately its the reality of the internet that there will be trollz and spammers etc.
and getting off topic is okay..w/in reason. certainly okay when i do it.
i do appreciate you holding LV up to higher standards. just don’t run off if some trash or crap drifts by time to time, k?
i’ll tell what i’ve seen done that i really like..when folks take the idiot comments to task. no cussing. just polite, firm ..albeit sarcastic
and you can certainly keep people on task w/ your own comments.
something i’ve learned the hard way…
have a tough skin. don’t take it personal. stick up for yourself or what you believe to be right. and make it fun for yourself.
like for me…this is not a popularity contest. i’m here for LV and for J. if specific people take issue w/ what i have to say or how i admin…then they should take that up w/ me personally. go to forums, look me up and PM me there or get my email there.
anyway…
i would hope anyone who is concerned about comments would not walk away but speak up.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Oh my. I missd the drama going on here.I respect all. But segue is the go-to-girl. She’s the best.
December 27th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Oh, snap! I didn’t know segue was a girl!
December 27th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Indeed! Very good list.
I’d love to see a list of known information surrounding Jack the Ripper.
December 27th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Also i think it would be good to see top serial killers… but please no Charles Manson (hes on all other lists ive seen) he is not a serial killer by any means… he is a manipulative CULT leader and definently not a good man but as far as i know.. never killed anyone.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:34 am
Great list. I smell a sequel.
December 28th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Nice list. I heard a speech from one of Mary Ann Nichol’s sons (Henry I think) about his life at the time of her murder, and after it. He does public speaking now and it was very interesting.
December 28th, 2008 at 9:31 am
59. Vera Lynn:…But segue is the go-to-girl. She’s the best.
****
Vera Lynn, you’re so sweet! Always my champion.
****
60. Nicosia: Oh, snap! I didn’t know segue was a girl!
****
Yep, I have those handy, dandy double x chromosomes. Glad to have them, too!
December 28th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Segue: No problem, I’ve done the same on more than one occasion. Great thing about family; nobody expects perfection, we all know each other better than that.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Let’s look at Hifo’s complaint:
“10 Tragic and Significant American Firsts with a Few Token Entries from Other Countries to Look Less Blatant?”
#10: First death at first themed amusement park in the world. Themed amusement parks started with Disney, but are no longer a US phenomenon, having sprung up in all areas of the globe. Verdict: Not US-centric
#9: First flying death after controlled, sustainable flight achieved. Happens to have occurred in America at a point in time when documents flights were occurring in America, Europe and South America. Verdict: Not US-centric
#8: US-centric
#7: Can be argued either way. It’s significant in that Kevorkian is the first physician to openly promote a machine to assist in suicide in a country where it is illegal. In many European countries, it’s not illegal and this item is not relevant. Still, in most of the world, assisted suicide is illegal or frowned upon. Verdict: 50/50
#6: US-centric
#5: This disease happens to have been discovered and documented in America. It’s no longer US-centric. The last 3 major outbreaks in the world were in Europe. Sure, the first person to die of AIDS, smallpox or malaria would be a much more significant first, but these people haven’t been identified. Verdict: Not US-centric
#4: US-Centric
#3: US-Centric
#2: Not US-centric
#1: Not US-Centric
Finally Tally: 4.5 US-Centric items, 5.5 Not US-Centric items.
Final Verdict:
Get off your high horse.
PS – Please submit a non-US list instead of just bitching about it. We could use a few more on here.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
XX Chromosomes rock! I have no idea why I would have thought you were a dude….
December 28th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
68. Nicosia: Really, one’s sex is of no importance on the net, but my guess would be that because the people I interact with most are guys (Anon, astraya, Randall ), you might have assumed I belonged to “the club”. That makes sense to me, at least.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
66. Mom424: Segue: No problem, I’ve done the same on more than one occasion. Great thing about family; nobody expects perfection…
****
Thank you…and thank goodness!
December 28th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Lol- no it’s not important, just an impression I had.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:44 am
segue: I assumed you were a bloke at first, too. I tend to assume that people here are blokes until they say otherwise. I’ve learned to be careful not to say anything based on that assumption, though.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
The Puritans had nothing to say about flashy clothing. They were men of the Church of England who wanted to purify it (hence the name) of Romish influences. If anything, Puritan young men were known for being debonair and fashionable.
I assume you’re equating the Pilgrims with the Puritans, but the Pilgrims left England (and the church thereof) rather than stay and try to reform. They were Separatists, if anything. By definition, a Puritan could not have been a Pilgrim.
December 29th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Do you know how to tell if a women is a witch?
You throw them in a lake, if they float they are a witch, if they drown they must not have been one. I guess it was the easist way to get rid of nagging old hag.
December 29th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Jack the ripper died years ago pihlz88. I’m quite sure he won’t come back. The closest person who was a serial killer now a days to Jack is probably the BTK Killer.
To see if someone is a witch, you have to know if they weigh the same weight as a duck. Ahhh monty python.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Mary Surratt is #8 on the list of deaths. Sad that she was only 42 when she was hanged, even though she maintained her innocence. It was reported that she was unaware of the plot to assassinate President Lincoln. I believe that she now resides with the angels and saints in heaven, since she was a Roman Catholic Christian who truly believed in God. I feel that, whether good or bad, she was still a person. Just one more reason why I oppose the death penalty. May she rest in peace.
December 30th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Not so mysterious Legionnaire’s disease. It’s caused by bacterial growth in large air conditioning units. There have been cases of it the past two summers in my city, due to cruddy air conditioners on top of downtown buildings .
December 30th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Hi. Good site.
January 3rd, 2009 at 4:40 pm
To Diogenes: her name is Patricia Cornwell, not Corwell and she makes a serious and believable argument of just who Jack the Ripper was. He fit all the personality traits of a psychopath beginning with his trauma as a child. They were not sure if he was a girl or a boy and dressed him as a girl until they did three surgeries on his private parts determining he was indeed a male. He had even the Queen of England fooled. She owned one of his paintings. Who in God’s name would paint the creepy likeness of such a monster and call it the Ripper’s Room. All his work was rather dark and leaned toward the shady side. She convinced me. And his last Whitechapel murder was also a Mary Kelly, just like me. He did go on to kill women in Camden town, so Mary wasn’t actually his last murder.
January 3rd, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Patricia Cornwell is an excellent crime/mystery novelist, and a nice lady, but I’m not too sure I’d put too much faith in her as an actual detective e.g. hunting down the real Ripper.
Who would believe that a novelist, 100+ years after the fact, could do what Scotland Yard could not do in all this time? It begs the imagination!
January 6th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Mary Kelly @comment#79:
A bit of a delayed response. I haven’t really looked at this site for a few days and only discovered your comment today. Thanks for the name correction. Yes, CORNWELL. I was saying her name right in my head but low and behold, twice wrong! Believe it or not, I am actually getting better with my spelling errors when commenting, except when I decide to just sling them out or deliberatly mis-spell or any other # of excuses I wont go into.. Hopefully there wont be too many here (at least not the ones that count). Perhaps I have some form of aixelsyd…um, I mean, dyslexia.
Anyway, I am aware that she is making a serious attempt, and, sure, attempting a “believable argument”, but it doesn’t mean that all signs point to “yes” in the end with Sickert as Ripper. Don’t get me wrong, I am very intrigued by the possibility. As I said, I read it some time ago when it was first published, but the overall stickler that I pulled from it, has me unsatisified with, what I recall, as too much reliance on her part in a “wanting belief” before definative results.
-If you catch this responce and add another of your own, I’ll further my interests (ie: check the book out again from the library, as I don’t own it). I could easily look up a suitable argument on the “all-knowing inter-webness of human consciousness”, but I prefer at the moment to go with my gut.
I haven’t delved into the Ripper lore much since reading Cornwell’s book, but I know that there is a large body out there against her allegations or how she layed them out, so to speak. So, I’m not the only one.
Now that I think about it, I wonder what sort of serious discussions in the art world have occured because of the Sickert/Ripper connection. Probably very little, other than whatever damage she did to paintings of his that she purchased (fuzzy recollection of which I am uncertain).
The ambiguity of art:
His “Camden Town murder paintings” are suggestive in a large part by Cornwell and by what titles he gave them along with the manner in which a narrative is implied.. But they are far from being declaritive “in a room/bed-murder depictions” like, for example, those of George Gross (did Otto Dix also depict the same?). I disagree on the “gloomy” aspect or his darker interest as being a viable reason for him being The Ripper. His color approach then may have been shadowy and mysterious or morose but his style and subject matter is closer to Bonnard. Certain places in London during the late 1880’s is about one of the darkest places on earth I can image being… But that’s neither here nor there… just my point of view. Sickert’s childhood and sex defects would certainly be a clue in making the connection. For sure. But sexual revenge has never been a full proof reasoning behind heinous murders of the opposite sex. It could just as well be the opposite. Also, wouldn’t it be reasonable to view the “against argument” for this, as being that Sickert’s past and darker nature and possible copy-cat Ripper(in regards to the fake letters) had his way of playing out such background trauma. Just a thought, which is just as fallible as anything Cornwell stated as an end-all truth…for the most part. It’s open ended to the point that even if a finalization happens, the millions of pages swarming in the gulf of it’s criminological history, the total abundance of over a hundred years of master mind’s attempts, the ANSWER will be anticlimatic.
Like I said, I find the connection to Sickert interesting. Maybe more has come to light, by way of the myriad of shades or intensities, since she wrote her book. I am sure there has in some way or another.
January 7th, 2009 at 4:44 am
The picture on the last one is really scary. Dont do that! lol
April 16th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Diogenes, (have you a lamp?) I have the cornwell book. Don’t bother re-checking it out. Pure speculation and in my opinion, just an effort to gain some royalties. Just browsing after running out of actual reading material (books). Thanks for listening.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
I don’t really see how Janet Elaine Adkins counts as a tragic event. It’s not like she was murdered, she was spared the pain of slowly losing herself to a terrible illness from which there is no recovery.
June 7th, 2009 at 10:04 am
great again love it love it love it as spock would say interesting …delistious…
August 2nd, 2009 at 9:07 pm
#10 is false. They didn’t die while ON the ride, they died as a result OF it
August 5th, 2009 at 7:06 am
shit.. about #4, i haven’t seen public enemies yet so now i know the ending…
October 12th, 2009 at 2:20 am
@DiscHuker (25): Fuck you! Die and go to hell!!!!!