Talk about your difficult lists to compile! There are wild differences from numerous sources as to who should be on this list. I particularly liked Bill James’ method of ranking pitchers based on either a player’s entire career or his peak value. Mr. James has his own method of ranking these men, others have theirs. I found familiar names in the top 5, but crazy variations from then on out. From my research, the top two are almost interchangeable. A lot of these men we never saw, so we have to rely on stats and baseball writers of the day.
Played For: Numerous Negro League and MLB teams.
This list is arguably somewhat tainted because of a shameful segregation policy that kept many great black ball players out of the major leagues. There is little discussion as to who was the greatest of them all. Paige was as dominant as they come. It’s impossible to list his records either because they simply don’t exist or they are inaccurate.
Played For: Brooklyn/Los Angeles Dodgers.
Another three time Cy Young winner, his career was cut short by arthritis. In each of his Cy Young seasons he won the pitcher’s triple crown. Despite the short career, Koufax ranks 7th on the all time strikeout list.
Played For: New York Mets, Cincinnati Reds, Chicago White Sox, Boston Red Sox.
Seaver was the NL rookie of the year in 1967 and a part of the 69 Miracle Mets squad who won the World Series despite being one of the worst teams in baseball from 1962-1968. He was a three time winner of the Cy Young award and finisthed his career with 311 wins.
Played For: Chicago Cubs, Atlana Braves, Los Angeles Dodgers, San Diego Padres.
Maddux was the first pitcher in major league history to win 4 Cy Young Awards for four consecutive years – 1992-95. During that time he had an impressive 75-29 record with a ridiculous 1.98 ERA. He also holds the distinction of winning at least 15 games in 17 consecutive seasons, a stunning accomplishment.
Played For: Cleveland Spiders, St. Louis Perfectos, Boston Red Sox, Cleveland Naps, Boston Rustlers.
Yeah, the dude’s name is on the award for the best pitcher each season. It’s difficult to understand how anyone could possibly win 511 games, but Cy Young holds that record. Along with that remarkable number, he also holds the record for innings pitched (7355) most career games started, (815) and most complete games (749) In some respects it was a different game back then, some could make a case that these numbers are an inflated total that reflected the infancy of the game. But no on can deny that he was one of the greats.
Played For: New York Giants, Cincinnati Reds.
In 1905 and 1908 he won the pitcher’s equivalent to the triple crown – leading the league in wins, ERA and strikeouts. And he was a member of the ‘First Five’ players to be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame along with Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson and Honus Wagner. He was also known for being one of the games most beloved players.
Played For: Philadelphia Phillies, Chicago Cubs, St. Louis Cardinals.
Pete had an awe inspiring 90 shutouts. He is third all time in wins with 373 with a 2.76 ERA
Played For: Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees, Houston Astros, Toronto Blue Jays.
In light of recent events, it’s difficult for me to place the Rocket on this list. It’s true he consistently appeared in plenty of top 5 lists of great pitchers, but there’s always going to be question marks when it comes to his career due to alledged steroid use. Steroids or not, he was the most dominate pitcher of the day who ended his career with 354 wins and a 3.17 ERA.
Played For: Washington Senators.
There are plenty of reputable sources that have Johnson in the top five, if not in the top 2. Ty Cobb said he was “the most threatening site he ever saw on a ballfield.” Because precision instruments were lacking at the time, it’s hard to say how hard he threw, but most agree it closed in on 100 MPH. He had 417 wins with a sizzling 2.17 ERA. His strikeout record of 3509 was broken by Nolan Ryan in 1983.
Played For: Philadelphia Athletics/Boston Red Sox.
Bill James comes right out and says Lefty Grove is the greatest pitcher of all time. Other sites and sources have him regularly in the top 5. Grove won 300 games even though he didn’t break into the majors until age 25. He led the league in ERA 9 times. That is a ridiculous stat. The next closest, Roger Clemens, has done that 7 times. He finished his career with a .680 winning percentage with 300 wins.
Notable omissions: Warren Spahn, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller, Carl Hubbell, Steve Carlton, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson Juan Marichal, Whitey Ford, Gaylord Perry
Contributor: bucslim
I know nothing about baseball.. and dont want know anything about this boring american sport
x
just because you don’t doesn’t mean show your ignorance.
Interesting, although I know nothing about baseball. =)
Replace Roger Clemens with Nolan Ryan.
Would you mind defining all of those stats you put in there? I watch baseball, but don’t know what any of thos details, like ERA mean.
Nolan Ryan should have made the list over Maddux. And Bert Blyleven is a personal fave, otherwise fantastic lisr
interesting read, My Dad and brothers will be interested in this list
Curveballed guns on the list, g – baseball is my favorite remedy for insomnia and preventing premature ejacs yo.
ERA means earned run average, which is a stat used for pictures.
Glad to see Sandy Koufax on the list. He was always my favorite. He pitched left handed and batted right handed. When the Dodgers moved to LA, kids could get into games for a buck, and it was a great way to spend the afternoon (instead of school).
I would hate for one of them to pitch a baseball to me. I would probably duck and hide haha. Great list – keep it up.
Ummm, too American?
jajdude: I constantly hope that one day I will understand your comments
astraya: baseball is played all over the world!
Astraya
In japan Baseball is HUGE, one might say it is more Japan’s pass time than America’s, since they even keep track of High school Baseball on a national level.
I do not find baseball the slightest bit interesting. There is no fluidity to it. I played it once when I lived in Canada and 95% of the time your standing there doing nothing. No offence to baseball fans. Its just not my cup of tea.
I like this list, but where is Nolan Ryan!? Having struck out more than 5000 batters should earn him a spot on this list.
I believe Cy Young also holds the record for most losses as well.
I agree with the others who say baseball is not just an American Sport. In many countries baseball is a way of life.
Football, now that’s my way of life!, the Superbowl should be considered a holiday.
I mightshould make a list of the tob QBs, although that would definitely be American oriented.
that should be might not mightshould. Sorry
Hi Vera Lynn!!
Actually JF – that was one of JAJs more comprehensible comments – to paraphrase – ‘Baseball is so boring it can send you to sleep and thinking about it during ***** can prevent *****.” – and I tend to agree. That’s not knee-jerk anti-americanism by the way. Cricket is equally boring and I love American football.
P.S – we all know Astraya’s just funnin’.
NO NOLAN RYAN!!!!! No latin pitchers? Marichal ring anybel?…ok that’s bias on my part….but RYAN has got to be right up there….
BTW: baseball is american (the whole continent) and some countries in asia…and THAT’S IT.
Its not a worldwide sport, even rugby is bigger…cricket and of course Football (the real one played with the feet, not the american “version”) lol
Cheers
I thought you knew me better than that by now, Jamie. So why aren’t there any non-Americans on this list????
Last August I watched the Olympic baseball final with my Korean wife. I (usually the introvert) suggested going somewhere public, but she (usually the extrovert and always the driver) wanted to stay at home. For someone who grew up watching 5 days of cricket in a row, I’ve got say how mind-bogglingly tedious baseball is – a lot of standing around followed by a flurry of activity. The last inning was a cracker though – Korean ahead by one, one out, bases loaded, so they bring on a new pitcher, who drills two dead-accurate strikes, then forces a double-play to become a national hero. (And not of Cuba, either.) (See, I know enough about baseball to say all of that.)
A colleague at school asked me if baseball is played in Australia. It is, but I had to look up the details. There is no professional league in Australia, but an amateur league, and some Australians play overseas. I found out a) that Australia beat Korea at the 2000 Olympics and b) Australia won the silver medal at Athens.
…Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
no nolan ryan?
Wake up! Nolan Ryan is not even one of the top 20 pitchers of all time and his omission from this list is Correct! I was looking forward to arguing with this list but I can’t find anything wrong with it. Roger Clemens had the same career arc as Tom Seaver until he started taking steroids/HGH. BTW, the annual award for best pitcher is named for the man with the most losses in Major League Baseball history.
Most losses, cuz in his time, there were no such things as relief pitchers and starting pitchers pitched once every two days.
No Bob Gibson??!!
* 1.12 era in 1968 season!!
Plus being widely considered the most intimidating pitcher ever to step on the mound, in fact he was the major reason they decided to lower the pitching mound. Pure dominance that struck fear into opposing batters. He deserves a spot.
Hey, Bucslim! Cool list! I haven’t watched baseball since the Mets won the world series in like 1985, but hey, great list. Gotta love a dude with a lady name. Oh, and, “Call it both way, Ref!”
*both ways
I did read an article about USA sports. They stated that the majority of US people have some ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) and this prevents them to enjoy any kind of sport that lacks frequent stops (unless they are extremely simple to be followed, like a NASCAR race).
Basketball, Football, Bowling, Golf.. maybe there is some truth in that article?
In europe all US sports are laughed at because of their convoluted rules and continuous halts. Football and Baseball (along with NASCAR) are the least appreciated!
I’d say it’s a matter of tastes maybe?
hmm compelling list. I read about this stuff all the time and the “Top 10 Pitchers List” is completely different for most people. I’d say most experts would put Bob Gibson on the list, as well as Pedro Martinez, and probably withdraw ALexander, Paige or even Cy Young. But whatever. Koufax, Clemens, and the rest are pretty established as the best ever
Someone once said that American football combines the two worst aspects of American life: violence and committee meetings.
(I just checked and it was someone called George Will.)
Oh yeah, and Cy Young played in a time where pitchers might pitch 50-something games in one season, which helps explain his insanely high win total.
Charlie Brown?
(Sorry, MAJOR LEAGUE pitchers.)
Dittos on Lefty Grove. His could have ended with close to 400 wins. He won nearly 100 games for the Baltimore Orioles, which at the time were in the International League in an era where some minor league clubs would have made better major league teams than the Browns or Phillies.
Rushfan…hate to tell you but Christy (if that is whom you are referring to as having a girl’s name) is actually a uni***** name.
Great list, btw…
Those who dont like baseball probably wouldn’t like chess and other games of strategy. There is almost an infinite amount of strategy in baseball well past what pitch to throw a given hitter, fielders positioning themselves in position based on the pitch and the situation, etc., etc. The best part about baseball is you can never know everything there is about it. It is called the “thinking man’s game” for good reason, no other game in the world, yes friends even that communist sport soccer, has commanded great writers to write about it. Not only that but those gifted in numbers rather than words have a field day with the statistical *****ysis of the sport. This is possible due to the profound depth to the game. Those who think its boring with not action don’t know whats going on. Chess is 99% still but I still enjoy it. It is metaphorically relevant as almost every situation in baseball reflects a situation outside. Baseball is a much more pastoral sport than football mixed with sudden flourishes of action bordering on rage. Baseball is as popular as ever– I really suggest those who are not fans of the game to learn more about it. I played in college and consider myself lucky to have milked as much as I did out of it. It remains a real pleasure.
*no other game in the world, yes even that communist sport soccer, has commanded AS MANY great writers to write about.
a list with all americans. let’s see…we should be offended. but wait, it is an american sport. ummm…then let’s just make fun of americans.
suskis: “a majority of americans have ADD”? are you serious? please provide a citation for such a wildly inaccurate statement.
i always find it amusing when there’s a list about something “American” to watch the non-Americans go wild about how inferior America is. instead of *****ing about us, go back to your soccer game and wait for your turn to get crushed in the next stampede.
MPW – PLEASE, make that list of QBs! Football, note I did NOT mean SOCCER, is an awesome sport, and deserves a good number of lists of its own.
I admit, I’m a newcomer to the game, only been into it for about seven years, but oh how I love to see my Steelers play!
To those who feel Nolan Ryan should be on this list: He’s my all time favorite pitcher. His strikeout record will probably never be broken. But from the sources I relied on, and there were many, Ryan was rarely in the top 15, the same is true for another favorite of mine Bob Gibson. Out of the list above I would much rather be at the plate facing them with the possible exception of Walter Johnson, than Ryan or Gibson. Gibson would just as soon throw a 90 MPH fastball in your back than down the strike zone.
As I stated in the introduction, the top 4-5 pitchers were pretty consistently in quite a number of top 5 lists. After that it’s a crapshoot.
rushfan: I got that, and I will next time I’m umpiring a tee-ball game. Bless you for taking the time.
Brosiusjb – my feelings exactly. I think George Will said the same thing. For those who truly understand the game, it is far from boring. There are literally hundreds of decisions in both dugouts being made between pitches.
I am a HUGE baseball fan(and sports fan)! Great list, but ranking pitchers is really hard(too many factors-errors by teammates, lack of batting by your team, the DH, etc.). If you’re not a fan, you probably weren’t exposed to the sport as a kid(like me w/my Dad and 3 TVs in our living room-and, no remotes back then)! That is all-GO O’s!!!
Wow, looking through the archives, there are not alot of sports lists. Bucslim, you could start a whole new category with this being the pioneering list. Good job.
This list is Bush league!
First of all, Sandy Koufax is #9?? What is that? His short career was perhaps among the most dominant baseball has ever seen; and if you’re going to speculate about Paige, then at least do so about Koufax who retired at the peak of his career.
And Roger Clemens; what are you doing? He’s a juicer and a cheat, get him off this list.
If you’re going to include Maddux, then include other 90′s pitchers who were just as dominant, if not moreso. Pedro Martinez’s 2000 season was arguably the best pitching performance of the modern era.
Nolan Ryan, the career strikeouts and complete game leader, is no where to be seen but it seems that horse has been beaten. I’m more upset that Clemens isn’t just on the list, but is so high on it.
I think this list should have also been divided between old-time players and modern-era pitchers.
#3 Tricia – ERA can be simply put as to how many runs the opposing team would score over the course of a 9 inning game while facing this particular pitcher. The lower the number, the better the pitcher has kept the opposing team from getting on base and scoring runs, along with the help of his teammates in the field.
Roger Clemens has no place on the list.
As a phillies fan it was nice to see Grover Cleveland Alexander.
Steve Carlton all the way.
Americans like baseball because its the most democratic sport. It is fundamentally American. You have to give every guy his chance at the plate, you can’t run out the clock and sit on a win. There is a great monolague about it in the play “Take Me Out” and I’ll look for it.
Keith – I understand completely with your arguments and have the same feelings about Clemens. I’m simply going with the sources I had. It’s difficult to say where the records for the steroid era is going to end up. But I struggled to include his name on the list because I feel very strongly that he cheated.
And from the sources I relied on, Koufax was rarely mentioned in the top 15, because of what you mentioned, speculation. But there’s no doubt he belongs on this list. Again, the top 4-5 are pretty consistently mentioned, and after that the next 30-40 names are wildly different. Ryan is in my notable omissions. Pedro’s incredible season and career is noteworthy, but it might be too ‘new’ for the writers and sources I consulted to compile this
1orioles fan…are you my dad? Cause if you aren’t he holds that title as well.
He’s by no means the greatest..his ERA was 4.25 when he retired, but I want to give a big ups to Jim Abbott (even though he was a Yankee!) because I can’t even pitch a no hitter with both hands. He’s truely inspirational.
I am an English, and used to share the short sighted and pompous views on American sports that are often posted by non Americans in response to lists such as this.
What a ridiculous point of view to hold considering I had never even watched a baseball game – something which I’m sure others that are badmouthing the sport have not done either.
In recent years (partly as a result of having a girlfriend from LA) I have got much more into US sports, and I really do genuinely enjoy them a lot, and think they do compare well in some ways to sports such as football (soccer).
In addition to basketball and NFL games which I have been to and enjoyed greatly, I have also had the pleasure of visiting Dodger Stadium on three different occasions now, and on each visit I had an amazing time. Eating peanuts and drinking (vastly overpriced) beer contributed towards this, but the game itself I found to be very enjoyable. It’s strategic, psychological, and exciting. I would recommend to anyone to go and see a game if you get the chance.
Football will always be my favourite sport (although supporting Spurs is severely testing at times) but baseball is a great game, and is a lot of fund to see live.
This list is great. Would be good to see a list of greatest basketball players too.
The Maddux ERA is wrong…
I’m not a huge baseball fan and therefore would never argue the inclusion or exclusion of anyone. However I always find it reassuring on any list when it is not dominated by very recent entries. It always shows a great knowledge of ones field when they look way back to the past. Well done.
Definitely an interesting list since i am a huge baseball fan (i’ve been a life-long Mets Fan… so pity me =-) )
I dont know all these players but im surprised neither Bob Gibson, nor Pedro Martinez were on this list.
Pedro Martinez is especially glaring simply because he played during the Steroids era of the 1990′s where the league average for runs in a game was the highest it’s ever been and he simply dominated. consider he had a 2.00 ERA (earned run average) when the average pitcher had a 4.50 ERA. Thats absolutely terrifying to consider how good he actually was. Most people consider his peak years in the 90′s to be the most dominating pitching performance of all-time
""Definitely an interesting list since i am a huge baseball fan (i've been a life-long Mets Fan… so pity me =-) ) ""
im a life-long cubs fan
no pity for you!
Nolan Ryan should be here.
Clements shouldn’t be on the list.
Nolan Ryan?
No Steve Carlton? No Bob Gibson? Please remember that MANY of the pitchers you listed played in the dead ball era, inflating their stats.
For all you Nolan Ryan lovers out there, he was a great pitcher, but he never even won a Cy Young Award.
It’s hard for me to not give a bonus shout to Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson, the two best non-steroid abusing pitchers of the late-90′s, and early 00′s.
Jazoo – you are correct, that should read 1.98 – pretty sure that was a typo
Nolan Ryan was a great strikeout pitcher, but his winning percentage was lower than these guys on the list, and his ERA was higher.
Pretty good list. My amendments, for what it’s worth.
Spahn should be on the list. The award for the best left handed pitcher is named after him and there are 2 lefties on the list.
Cy Young should be top 3. (Grove and Johnson are both solid in the top 3 as well)
Clemens is an embarrassment to baseball. He shouldn’t be only list but a banned list.
I think Bob Gibson should be top 10 at least. He was one of the most feared pitchers of all time. Best part about him was if he felt you crowded the plate, it was comin’ at your noggin.
I also agree that Pedro should be at least an honorable mention, and glad that you named Marichal.
Of course, it’s all subjective and somewhere, someone is calling me an idiot for my picks.
Great list and may I suggest more baseball lists in the future?
For those of you wanting Pedro Martinez to be recognized. I went through plenty of resources to compile this list – I read many of the books I have on Baseball history by respected writers and trusted internet resources. Pedro was never mentioned in the top 10 of anything I could come up with.
He has impressive credentials – I believe he won the Cy Young award 3 times, was a member of a championship team and has a very low ERA. That being said, he most certainly isn’t better than the pitchers listed. Definitely not in the top 5.
Keep in mind every player on this list appear in someone’s top 5 list. As I said in the introduction, a lot of these guys played long before you and I were born so we have to rely on the record and most of these guys have over 300 wins – something Pedro can’t say.
Fore11- Good call. Spahn has to be on any list of the top 10.
“First we’ll use Spahn
then we’ll use Sain
Then an off day
followed by rain
Back will come Spahn
followed by Sain
And followed
we hope
by two days of rain.”
I have been coming to this site for a long time now and have read every list.
so now i am stuck to one a day!!
anyway you can publish two each day?
*BORING*
20/20 cricket is more EXCITING!