Subscribe to Listverse
Since the beginning of commercial aviation, thousands of planes have crashed all over the world, with tens of thousands of people injured or killed. When an air disaster strikes, sometimes pilots can’t react in time or do anything to prevent the final catastrophe despite heroic efforts to land their plane safely. Sometimes, though, pilots bring their stricken craft back to earth through a combination of skill and training and maybe some luck, with minimal or no casualties. The following is a selection of pilots and the disasters that they weathered under the most trying of circumstances. (Mistakes in terminology or crew names are my own.) If you know of a crash you feel should be listed, given the parameters outlined above (in other words, no crashes with complete destruction of the plane and total loss of life), please provide it in the comments.
Many of these examples are profiled on such shows as “Air Disaster” (also called “Mayday” and “Air Crash Investigation” and “Mayday: Catástrofes aéreas,” depending on the market) and “Seconds from Disaster.” Personally, I’ve been in one situation that could have been a disaster. My family and I were on a Japan-bound Northwest 747 leaving Minneapolis when one of the right engines flamed out on takeoff. The pilots circled the airport while dumping fuel to make the plane lighter and safe enough to land on three engines. I have a cool snapshot of the fuel dump.
Air crew: Pilot Min-Yuan Ho, Co-pilot Ju Yu Chang, Flight Engineer Kuo-Win Pei, Captain Chien-Yuan Liao, and Flight Engineer Shih Lung Su
During a late-night non-stop flight from Taipei to Los Angeles, the 747 lost power in one engine. The pilots, later found to be well past exhaustion from round-the-clock flying duties, made a series of minor mistakes that caused the jumbo jet to plunge 30,000 feet in 2 1/2 minutes. The g-forces of up to 5g caused serious damage to the aircraft and some injuries. Fortunately, the crew was able to right the heavily damaged plane and restart the faulty engine. They diverted to San Francisco and landed safely. The near-fatal plunge led to changes in the recommended rules governing how long a crew can fly without relief or rest.
Air crew: Captain Robert Pearson and First Officer Maurice Quintal
Another fuel-loss incident, this cross-Canada 767 ran out of fuel because of a series of front office bungling, a new type of fuel gage and other human errors, including failure to convert fuel equations with the metric system. With all power gone, the captain, an experienced glider, used every trick he could think of to bring the aircraft in for an emergency landing at an industrial airport in Gimli, Manitoba. The nose gear collapsed on touchdown, but none of the crew or passengers was seriously injured. The flight was later dubbed the “Gimli Glider.”
Air crew: Captain Eric Moody, Senior First Officer Roger Greaves and Senior Engineer Officer Barry Townley-Freeman
A 747 flight named The City of Edinburgh was en route from London to Auckland when the pilots inadvertently flew her through the ash cloud of Mount Galunggung, an Indonesian volcano. Lacking any moisture, the ash cloud did not show up on their radar screen. The ash shut down all four engines and the oxygen supply stopped working properly. With no engines, Moody put her in a steep, 6,000-foot dive to reach breathable air, then turned toward Jakarta for a possible water landing—all while gliding. Fortunately, after they cleared the ash cloud, the crew got the engines restarted and they landed safely in Jakarta. Fun fact: Captain Moody issued what’s justly called a “masterpiece of understatement” when he told passengers: “Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.”
Air crew: Captain Bryce McCormick and First Officer Peter Whitney
This DC-10 suffered explosive decompression when a cargo hatch blew out. Rapid decompression crumpled part of the cabin, damaged hydraulic controls, cut controls to the top engine and caused the rudder to stick at far right. Despite the severe damage to the aircraft, the pilots landed her safely with no loss of life. The cause of the accident was a faulty locking mechanism on the cargo bay door.
Air crew: Captain Eric Gennotte, First Officer Steve Michielsen and Flight Engineer Mario Rofail
“Fedayeen” scum fired a missile at this Airbus A300 cargo plane doing a rapid-climb takeoff from Baghdad airport. The missile hit the left wing, destroyed an engine and irreparably damaged all hydraulic systems. Without hydraulics, they could use only differential throttles to control the A300, whereby pilots gain a measure of lateral control through running one engine faster than the other, and a smidgen of horizontal control by increasing/decreasing speed. After experimenting for 10 minutes, the three-person crew turned the damaged craft around for a landing. They veered off the runway into soft sand, using only reverse thrust to stop the craft. Fascinating note: Capt. Gennotte got the idea to use differential throttles after attending a seminar given by Capt. Al Haynes, the pilot of United Airlines Flight 232 (see #2 below), who used the techniques when his aircraft lost all hydraulics.
Air crew: Captain David Cronin, First Officer Gregory Slader and Flight Engineer Randal Thomas
A cargo door failed on this 747-122 bound for New Zealand, causing explosive decompression. Nine passengers were killed and several injured. The crew lost some flight controls and fires started in engines 3 and 4. They took the 747 down to breathable air—the accident also destroyed the oxygen equipment —and turned the plane back to Honolulu. With only partial flaps, they landed successfully.
Air crew: Captain Robert Schornstheimer and First Officer Madeline “Mimi” Tompkins
This is probably one of the most well-known air disasters. This 737, bound for Honolulu, suffered serious structural damage when the top portion of the passenger cabin literally ripped off. Metal fatigue and corrosion from continual operation near salt water caused hairline fractures that eventually led to catastrophic structural failure. One crewmember was killed and about 65 people were injured. The pilots brought the heavily damaged craft down safely, despite not knowing whether the front landing gear had deployed correctly. It is absolutely amazing that the 737 stayed in the air.
Air crew: Captain Eduardo “Ed” Reyes, First Officer Jaime Herrera and Systems Engineer Dexter Comendador
An al Qaeda member planted a bomb aboard a Japan-bound Philippine Airlines 747. The explosion killed the passenger sitting directly over the bomb and injured several others. The blast also severed aileron controls, making steering all but impossible, with or without autopilot. The skillful crew managed to turn the aircraft through changing the trust to each engine and land the stricken craft safely on Okinawa. Historical note: After the failure of this plot, AQ scum turned to hijacking commercial jets to fly them into buildings — 9/11, of course — then later attempted another version of the bomb plot with several liquid compounds on several flights leaving England. That plot fortunately was uncovered before it could be executed.
Air crew: Captain Alfred C. Haynes, First Officer William Records and Second Officer Dudley Dvorak, flight engineer and DC-10 flight instructor Dennis Fitch (who was a passenger)
This tragic and heroic story is one of the most famous air crashes of all time, partly because it was caught on film. The fan blade in the DC-10’s tail engine disintegrated and completely shredded all hydraulic controls, including the redundant hydraulics. The flight crew maintained the barest amount of control using differential throttles, which flight instructor Fitch suggested they use. Together, they brought the DC-10 in for a crash landing at the Sioux City airport. With almost no control, their rate of descent and airspeed were far too high, but they made it down. The craft hit hard; the left wing smacked the ground, spilling fuel, which immediate ignited. Of the 296 on board, 111 died. As horrific as that sounds, it would have been a lot worse if not for the tremendous abilities of Haynes and his crew, and the large numbers of rescue personnel and National Guardsmen who just happened to be on scene. The clip is actual footage of the crash. Note that the plane didn’t actually tumble; that’s the wing you see flipping over, not the fuselage. Second note: Like many crashes, this one changed air safety regulations. Previously, infants were not required to have their own seats; passengers were told to place “lap children” on the floor in front of them in the event of a crash landing. One child was killed because of this, and now all passengers, regardless of age, are required to have a seat.
Air crew: Captain Chelsey “Sully” Sullenberger and First Officer Jeffrey B. Skiles
I placed this one first not because it’s the most recent, but because it was one of the most amazing crash landings ever made in a commercial airliner. This Airbus 320 struck a flock of geese minutes after leaving La Guardia, knocking out both engines. Capt. Sullenberger searched for a safe landing spot, but was unable to return to La Guardia or reach an airfield in New Jersey. Instead, he aimed for the Hudson River. He brought her down successfully, touching down with so much skill the Airbus held together and no one was seriously injured. A National Transportation Safety Board spokesperson called it “the most successful ditching in aviation history.” The Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators gave the rare Masters Medal award to “Sully” and his crew. You can find actual video of the crash landing on YouTube and elsewhere (mainly taken from security cameras), but the above-linked CGI rendering is highly useful because it shows what happened synched with the actual conversations between Capt. Sully and traffic control.
Notable Extras: Air Transat Flight 236, Azores Islands, Aug. 24, 2001
June 11th, 2009 at 1:39 am
A lot of these show the advantage of training and having highly skilled pilots. One thing I think about is that, for most of the flights, the pilots don’t do anything apart from watching the instruments.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:40 am
OMG … terrifying, makes me scared of planes (though i love them).
Also, first for the first time
June 11th, 2009 at 1:40 am
I literally just bought my flight ticket to Rome, and now I read this list…great.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:40 am
Great list. Very topical
June 11th, 2009 at 1:42 am
The pilot from British Airways Flight 9- fantastic just for his ability to produce something quotable all while attempting to save an aircraft. Also, the Hudson River flight still amazes me, even after I’ve watched it so many times. My aunt saw it land- well she saw where it was clearly going, but her view was blocked of the actual touchdown. She looked out her window, and apparently said “What the fu**” upon seeing it- in the middle of a board meeting. She was forgiven.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:44 am
airplanes are still safer to travel in than automobiles … statistacly speaking
June 11th, 2009 at 1:49 am
There was an incident I remember reading where a four engine aircraft lost an engine – it literally fell off the plane. As the pilot was trying to keep control; most of the control cabling had been severed, the co-pilot looked out the window and saw an engine had fallen off the other wing as well. He told the pilot who replied, “This isn’t time for joking!” They were in French airspace and the pilots had trouble persuading ATC to speak English and to believe that they’d lost two engines and all control.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:54 am
Even airplanes are safer than other mode of transportation, it still makes me nervous every flight..
June 11th, 2009 at 1:56 am
AQ scum, “Fedayeen” scum. Agreed.
Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655)?
June 11th, 2009 at 2:00 am
noooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!
June 11th, 2009 at 2:01 am
How did you miss this flight?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390
Windshield breakdown, Pilot sucked out & is caught at his ankles by the cabin crew. The inexperienced co-pilot then lands the plane.
Incredibly, the pilot returned to service within 6 months, as i recall ..
June 11th, 2009 at 2:05 am
wow! i’m from the philippines but i never know about number 3!
June 11th, 2009 at 2:23 am
Great going! The timing of the list could not be more off for me. I have to take a flight after 6 hours. All I’ll be thinking of is these crashes! Thanks!
June 11th, 2009 at 2:59 am
@Tomo (13): As you think of crashes, keep in mind that the ratio of car crashes to pane crashes still favors you on your flight.
Thank heavens for the clearness of thinking to be recognized to these crews upon their job, and subsequent status as heroes.
A huge thank you to these crews for their clear thinking and a huge thank you for recognition brought to them for this list. Good work STLMo!!
June 11th, 2009 at 3:00 am
whoops, that should read “plane”.
June 11th, 2009 at 3:34 am
I have to say that in all of my many 30 hour flights back and forth from NZ to the UK and vice versa, I have never gotten used to flying and really hate it.
June 11th, 2009 at 3:47 am
@joliver: I’ve seen that episode a couple of times already!
interesting list… thanks!
June 11th, 2009 at 3:57 am
i disagree with number 1. surely landing on concrete and surviving is more amazing then landing on water and survivng
June 11th, 2009 at 3:59 am
@jfrater (16):
But can’t you say the take-offs are a rush….
June 11th, 2009 at 4:00 am
June 11th, 2009 at 4:07 am
The quote for #8 reminds me of accounts that I’ve read of British fighter pilots over North Africa & mainland Europe during WWII. American pilots reported regularly hearing RAF pilots frequently sounded almost bored in dogfights. These men hardly ever lost their cool. Of course, these are the men who had won the Battle of Britain, so North Africa & mainland Europe must have seemed like a walk in the park.
June 11th, 2009 at 4:25 am
how nice i am going on a 7 and a half hour flight next month
June 11th, 2009 at 4:35 am
Cheaper, safer and more Kraftwerk… It’s train!
June 11th, 2009 at 4:36 am
My neighbor will be boarding a plane in 2 1/2 days.
But as ListVerse is not a porn site….Oh well…. what he doesn’t know…….
June 11th, 2009 at 4:39 am
Great list, though I knew about them all already as I’m a big fan of the TV show Air Crash Investigation.
June 11th, 2009 at 4:46 am
“Captain Chelsey “Sully” Sullenberger” first name is actually spelled “Chesley”. Very interesting list.
June 11th, 2009 at 4:49 am
@NoE (6) and deeeziner (14) and anyone else who alleges that air transport is the safest mode of transport: safety is relative to the number of journeys taken. Most of us would travel in a car just about every day, but only make a handful of flights each year. So the chance of being in a car accident is higher than being in a flight accident. However, if you fly regularly, your chances of being in an accident greatly increase, especially if you journey starts or finishes in some of the countries whose air traffic regulations are not as strict as you might find in more developed countries. I’m thinking the African and Asian cotenants here. I fly a lot on these continents and have personally been involved in 6 potentially fatal incidents. I reckon I’ve got three lives left…
June 11th, 2009 at 4:49 am
i hereby nominate the passengers and crew of United 93 for striking the first blow against the throat cutters on 9/11
June 11th, 2009 at 4:56 am
There was a movie made about #2 called “A Thousand Heroes” (also known as The Rescue of Flight 232). I wouldn’t exactly recommend watching before boarding a plane, but it’s a great little movie.
@18, depending on speed velocity and altitude, landing on water can be just like landing on concrete.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:09 am
@Tom (27):
Thank you for enlightenment upon the subject of air travel and mortality rate.. I will freely admit that my knowledge upon the subject comes from ratios quoted upon public broadcast. The details and statistics are not a subject to which I presume authority.
My goal upon post was to help Tomo gain some confidence upon their upcoming flight, and perhaps make their flight less traumatic.
I’m sure your post will help enlighten others.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:15 am
Landing a plane on water is easy??! I might be wrong but i think i read about water being as hard as concrete if impacted at a given velocity. Sully got some skill…
June 11th, 2009 at 5:43 am
50 bucks sais this is gonna rock the “most popular lists” soon
June 11th, 2009 at 5:45 am
I have heard of all of these crashes and agree that it’s amazing that they weren’t worse then what they were. Saw number 2 when it happened. Very scary stuff.
@jfrater (16): Same here. Hate flying…if I could walk there, I would. Just haven’t figured how to do that over water.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:47 am
It’s been a strange year for planes. First that crash in the Hudson, that US plane causing uproar in NY, the French jet that’s just gone missing, not to mention about a dozen other crashes.
PS. When I try to register it won’t let me. WTF? Just a blank screen.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:18 am
How the hell do you miss United 93 man?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:20 am
I just love how calm Sullenburgers voice is during the whole incident. He made landing a plane in the Hudson river sound like someone ordering pizza.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:21 am
I feel a little weird about this coming on the heels of such an airline tragedy with the AirFrance flight…
It was informative though.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:26 am
During the video for number one, its amazing how calm the pilot seems. Even with all the training I think I would still be freaking out.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:34 am
Former world traveler here….
Airplanes are scarier than yesterday’s movie list.
Beautiful day here in vermont.
Mooooo!
June 11th, 2009 at 6:40 am
#35 Tyler – PLEASE read the introduction and you will answer your own question.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:07 am
From #1- “The near-fatal plunge led to changes in the recommended rules governing how long a crew can fly without relief or rest.”
I cannot believe it took something like this to get those rules. It’s plain ol’ common sense and should have been in effect all along!
June 11th, 2009 at 7:26 am
omg., i didn’t expect the Philippine Airlines will be here.. one of my friends was on board!!
June 11th, 2009 at 7:28 am
romerozombie (34) that’s whats happening too when i clicked on register,, i want to register!!!!!!!!
June 11th, 2009 at 7:34 am
frushka (39) i agree… this list is scarier than the last list.. ( disturbing movies) .
June 11th, 2009 at 8:00 am
It would be so interesting to see how it feels to be on that flight in no. 4, dangling above groud in mid air with nothing holding you down but your seat. Awesome list!
June 11th, 2009 at 8:52 am
STLMo, i think you left out very valuable information on #2 the pilot (Hayes) did less than 1/2 the flying after hydraulics had been lost, it was mostly Fitch who flew the plane. He was deadheading on the plane, and noticed how the plane was in phugoid motion, and offered to help. He had looked into a Japanese disaster where the hydraulics were lost and got the idea, so he had a little practice on the flight sim’s doing this. However, he was never trained as a pilot, just ran the simulators…
gives hope to all us flight sim players…
June 11th, 2009 at 8:56 am
You forgot Air Transat Flight 236, the longest non-powered glide performed by a commercial airliner.From Wikipedia:
“..Air Transat Flight 236 was an Air Transat route between Toronto, Canada and Lisbon, Portugal flown by Captain Robert Piché and First Officer Dirk DeJager. On August 24, 2001, the flight ran out of fuel over the Atlantic Ocean with 306 people (293 passengers and 13 crew) aboard. The flight crew successfully landed the plane in the Azores with no loss of life.”
June 11th, 2009 at 8:59 am
@timmar68 (41):
when you’re flying, your not doing that much up there… Think of being a trucker, on cruise, with no turns (autopilot takes care of turning) for hours on end. It’s very common for the pilots to sleep while the plane’s flying cause it gets really boring. Its now also possible for a plane to take off, fly, and land via autopilot, therefore the pilot is becoming outdated, only reason he’s there is people feel safer and incase something goes wrong…
I’ll bet 100,000,000,000,000 that we’ll have planes w/o pilots before we have cars without drivers… think how much an airline would charge ‘platinum first class’ if the passengers got a view out the front of the plane
June 11th, 2009 at 9:02 am
#47 Artme – actually, I didn’t forget it. It was #11 on the original list but JF made it a notable extra instead. (See right under the vid for #1.)
#46 Andy – thanks for adding that.
June 11th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Andy – in some places, we have trains without engineers. One of the RR crossings near my house has signs posted that essentially tell people not to freak out if they see a train rumbling by with no engineer.
June 11th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Artem, not Artme (sorry about that!)
June 11th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Nice list!!! I’ve never been on a plane
and never will after reading this list!!
lol
Oh, and I’m new to the site. Nice to meet
everyone!!!
June 11th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Good list. As a 747 pilot, I am familiar with all these flights. One thing springs to mind. Number ten, the first on the list, differs from all the others. Nine through one illustrate excellent airmanship, that is skill and knowledge in operating the aircraft, saved the day. Number ten, the Air China incident, illustrates poor airmanship turning a minor incident into a near catastrophe. A single engine failure in a 4 engine aircraft is normally a minor event.
June 11th, 2009 at 9:45 am
#2. Children under 2 years are not required to have their own seat for domestic or international flights.
June 11th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Way awesome list. Like Jamie, I have flown often and hated it each and every time. My flights weren’t near as long – not so sure whether that is better or worse. It just means that there is less time between the scary take-off and the even scarier landing.
The worst flight I ever had was a Halifax to Toronto flight with a stop-over in Dorval (Montreal) at Christmas. We experienced wind shear and icing. The flight while approaching the airport (not on final decent, thank god) hit a patch of air that caused the plane to go into a near vertical dive. The buzzers and alarms went off and the flight attendant actually had to use the back of the seats to climb to her spot in front of the tail cabin. The pilot managed to regain control, obviously, but that didn’t end the horror of that particular flight. The icing on the plane when we finally did land caused the plane to shake and vibrate so bad I thought for sure it was going to fall apart. The pilot and crew received a great round of applause when we finally came to a stop. BTW I had to get right on another plane for the rest of my trip. Scary shit.
June 11th, 2009 at 9:57 am
aleoper – I almost didn’t include #10 for that very reason, but decided to because they turned things around after the initial mistakes. Perhaps I could have left it off and put Air Transat Flight 236 in its place.
June 11th, 2009 at 10:00 am
My dad is a flight instructor, and he has had so many things so wrong, but survived them all because he keeps his cool. He’s had an older plane catch on fire while in the air, stalled engines, etc. One time, he was flying and his plane’s landing gear wouldn’t come down. He had to land the plane on it’s belly. As soon as he got it stopped, we see the door pop open, and he jumps out and rolls like a ninja across the runway… He was fine and went right back to flying.
June 11th, 2009 at 10:05 am
Hey! The video for no.1 was just brilliant! I’m not one to gawp at tragedy, but that was heroic.
I love flying, it’s the landing that scares me. Oh, and I get painful ears from the pressure; so bad that I’m in agony. Sucky sweets don’t help.
Very well researched and thought provoking list STLMO!
June 11th, 2009 at 10:18 am
I find that many people are afraid of flying in small aircraft, but I prefer them to flying commercial. I think (as do a lot of pilots) that they are actually safer and less hassle. The pilot has more control of the craft, and you have more landing options should an emergency arise. And they are way more fun
June 11th, 2009 at 10:43 am
I think the Gimli Glider should’ve been first. It’s pretty hard to glide a jumbo-jet.
Good list and I knew Gimli Glider was going to be on it!
June 11th, 2009 at 11:17 am
w00tz – Canadian eh? I remember when that particular incident happened myself.
June 11th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Wow that footage from the hudson is pretty cool. I love the dirty NY accents from the control tower. I only say dirty cause thats where im from.
June 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am
My next-door neighbor is a retired 747 pilot. He told me, after the Hudson River ditching, that on almost every transpacific and transatlantic flights someone would ask him nervously, as he walked through the cabin, can this plane land on the ocean, on water? He’d answer, “It sure can, but it can’t take off again.”
June 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Steve T – that is priceless!
June 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Great list STLMo – just a quick comment on the 28 th Nov. 1987 the SAA Boeing 747 244 Combi the Helderberg crashed into the sea just of the coast of Mauritius.
All passengers and crew perished.
SA. searched but could not find any pings in the area were the plane went down.
Now this amazes me the Yanks were asked to help, they sent 2 navy ships with a mini sub and retrieved the cockpit voice recorder – wait for this 5000 meters – 16000ft below the surface.
Air France said it was unlikely that the “boxes” would be found. ?
And that is +- 1500 swallower than the helderberg.
Thanks again – great list.
June 11th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I was just thinking- I out of anyone (well, most people) should by all rights be terrified of flying. When I was ten I saw a small plane burst into flames and fall from the sky when I was at Airforce in Colorado. I’m not really clear on why that didn’t freak me out.
Until commercial planes become easier to fly, I personally do not want to be on a pilot-less flight. If something goes wrong, a person could at least attempt to fix it as they respond to the given situation as it occurs, something that a computer cannot do. Just my two cents.
June 11th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Fascinating list, though some of these are quite tragic.
As some people have mentioned, there seem to be a lot of air tragedies or near misses this year. They are always in the news. It makes me wonder whether there are actually more air disasters this year, or if the amazing Hudson landing has just brought them to the forefront. I’ve been on about 10 flights in the last 6 months but they all went smoothly. I am not the least bit afraid of flying, but the Air France flight shook me up, I must admit.
How is this for bizarre and sad, though? An Italian woman who missed the Air France flight was killed in a car crash a few days later – http://www.fox2now.com/wghp-story-avoided-accident-crash-090611,0,4046081.story?track=rss
June 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
This crash happened in February this year, 11 people died of over 134 people on board. Turkish airliner crashing in Amsterdam.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_32385.aspx
And this one in Toronto, the plane skidded off the runway and down a cliff, burst into flames almost instantly, yet every single passenger and crew got out alive. Air France flight 358, with 309 people on board.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1123014388624_118423588/?hub=TopStories
June 11th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
@romerozombie (34): and @erikasoup (43): I couldn’t registar from the “Register tab at the top of the page either. I would get a blank page. Go to the bottom of this page and click on the “WorldPress.com VIP” link and go from there.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Being an Army aviator and being VERY familiar with tower talk, the #1 video with voice over gave me the chills. I can only applaud the professionalism of the aircrew and the tower personnel. Never, in my humble opinion, has an aircrew deserved more the honors and applause that the flight crew of 1549 received. I have heard some very chilling radio communications between Army OH58D pilots in theater and the local tower but that takes the cake.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Don’t know if this has been mentioned but there was a plane that got hijacked somewhere on the East Coast of Africa a while ago and the pilot needed to ditch in near the Comoros cause the hijakers wanted to get to Australia but the plane didnt have close to enough fuel. There’s footage of it landing near a beach somewhere on youtube.
June 11th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
is it just me or have there been an abnormal # of plane crashes in the last few months???
June 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
@Looser (72):
no. just more media coverage. we never hear about how many car accidents & fatalities there are each day in the nightly news.
daily automobile deaths due to accidents (2,360) far outnumber all the airline deaths & accidents in a year (900)!
rtr
June 11th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
@Mark (71):
Here is crash you mentioned in your comment
125 of the 175 passengers and crew aboard were killed
It shows the crash at the end of the clip
June 11th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
This makes me want to save up for a round the world trip by boat and train…
June 11th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
LOL at “i think he said he’s going in the hudson.”
June 11th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
I know this really isnt an airline crew but what about the people on United Flight 93 (the fourth plane that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11)? I mean those people deserve a spot on this list just as much, if not more, than any of these other crews. They took their own lives to save so many more on that fateful day…
June 11th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
WOW, amazing list, and im not just saying that kuz I graduate tomorrow as an Aerospace Engineer.
About the Hudson, the amount of Skill was amazing, so amazing our professor had a whole lecture on it and had it on the final.
To clarify, the pilot later claimed he thought he could make it to the airport, but didnt think it was worth risking even more life. Also in such crash landings, you usually have some sort of damage on the plane. This one has none, perfectly clean, its so amazing, especially since i dont know if anyone noticed but at landing a plane does a really long “flare” which is tail down and nose up. He has to do this until he is slow enough to put down the plane because if a wing hits the water at that speed, the fuselage tears apart.
June 11th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
this list could also have totally been expanded, there was united 93 for example.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
was the repeated use of the word scum really needed?
June 11th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Before I married my husband, I was always quite nervous about flying, even though I had to do a lot of it, in all kinds of planes, in all kinds of repair, in all sorts of weather (when you have to be at a shoot, you have to be at a shoot!).
Now, however, I am married to a man who was an Air Force Flight Engineer, a part of the cockpit crew, and who had his own ability to fly the big cargo planes the Air Force used to fly equipment from place to place. He could fly any of the planes being used today. So I always know that if we were ever in a situation where the cockpit crew were disabled, or required aid, he’d be there in a flash, saving the day.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
ok
i know i’m going to get ripped on for this.
buuut..
“scum”? really? i think thats a bit too much.
they are a group of people fighting for a different set of rights and values than our own. their methods may be extreme but they are people. not scum.
June 11th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
First off, anyone mentioning Flight 93, PLEASE PLEASE read the introduction!
Second, sorry, but I used scum and I meant it. Anyone who thinks it’s A-OK to blow up airliners or highjack them and fly them into buildings is an enemy of all civilization and all that’s decent. And you know what? Hitler and the Nazis were people too. Would you complain if I called Nazis scum?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
However much I hate to say it, munro, I kind of agree with you. That’s how guerrilla warfare is fought. Yes, it’s cheap, and yes, it’s fucked up to target civilians in any form of combat. I doubt that anyone with any REAL pride in their nationality, religion, heritage, etc. would stand by and let someone else stomp on their shit after being persecuted, much less fight back in a manner that’s considered ‘fair’. However, these people who are considered scum are generally known for targeting ANYONE who does not agree with their beliefs. If many of them had their way, there would be genocide of everyone who isn’t them. On the same note, there are plenty of ignorant Americans, and probably other western societies too, who believe that ALL Muslims should die, because most of these terrorist groups hold extreme Islamic beliefs. Couldn’t those lunatics be considered scum as well?
June 11th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Great list, despite the spine tingly dingly implications.
Personally I’m not much of a fan of flying, but I’m required to fly about 5-10 times a year for work. It’s not that I freak out completely when I’m on board, I just feel very relieved when we touch down safely on arrival. But I get the same feeling when I arrive somewhere after a long road trip, so it’s not that concerning.
The courage shown by these pilots is very admirable
June 11th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I always get a bit nervous when flying on airplanes, I usually get a window seat and watch the wings wiggle while flying, suspicious that they could fall off at any moment. I tend to make myself less nervous by making the people around me more nervous, by making fake alarm sounds and whispering that we’re going to die. This doesn’t work so well on normal commercial flights with people I don’t know, so I stick to this strictly when flying with fellow service members. I’m pretty sure suggesting that “Fuck, we’re gonna crash!” and screaming wildly when you hit turbulence in a commercial airliner is generally frowned upon, but is perfectly alright on military flights. Hope so, anyways. Haven’t gotten in trouble yet.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
54 Foosinphisig
Actually, you’re quite wrong.
I flew from St. Louis, MO to Muscat, Oman with a 5 year old and an 8 month old. Both required their own seats as well as child safety seats. Not only that, but I was reminded constantly on every flight that my children were required to be belted at all times… meaning it was rather difficult for me to feed my infant daughter. It was the same on the reverse flight two years later with the same children. The only thing I can say is that the airlines were spectacularly kind to me offering nine kinds of assistance getting me to my connections and getting us on board the plane even before first class passengers.
As far as the list goes… it’s absolutely awesome. My darling husband has been in one Hercules C-130 crash where he lost three comerades (Jan 10, 1999 — pilot error landing at Al Jaber Air Base).
Ironically, when he finally called me, I hadn’t even heard about the crash. His first words to me were “First off, I’m ok”. I said, “what…where you in a plane crash” .. laughingly. When he said yes… I just about passed out. Then I turned on the news and saw footage of the landing in Al Jaber.
I still have the a copy of the first e-mail he sent to me describing in detail what happened and how he just prayed that God “make it quick” and “take care of my girls”. It’s covered in my tears where I’ve reread it many times and thank God for His Blessings.
I think we all think about the evitable every time we walk down a jetway.
Great list J.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
I’m not sure if the airline involved or departure and arrival cities make a difference but I did NOT have to purchase a ticket for my 7 month old daughter when we flew from Tulsa to Phoenix in January of 2001. I was told children under 2 could ride on the lap of a parent or guardian. I will add that the airline and airport were very accomodating and helpful to me as well. I haven’t flown since so I’m not aware of the current regulations but the incident listed in #2 was in 1989, well before my flight.
Great list btw! I’ve always enjoyed flying, although I haven’t had many opportunities. I do get the chance this summer. Woohoo! Vacation, here I come.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
@catchick (87):
why didn’t God bestow the same blessing upon the other three people with your husband that faithful day? i’m sure their families would be saying the very same thing even if you did loose your husband…which, thankfully for your young family, you did not. but what about those less fortunate?
i’m terribly confused on the whole “god blessed me” bit.
saw it on the news tonight, where a perp fleeing the cops plowed over 4 children trying to escape-killing two 7 year olds and a baby. the mother of the survivor was praising Jesus the whole time…what about the other mothers?
what about circumstance, skill, and good old fashioned fortuitous circumstance? (such as the surviving child being in the doorway of the patio instead of on the stairs? i don’t believe God placed the child there, she was simply getting a drink and coming out on the patio when the car careened into the stairs)
rtr
June 11th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
I just did some research and apparently, in the US, children under 2 years old are not required to have a seat for domestic flights only. I’m not sure what the rules are in other countries and I’m too tired to check.
Another comment I wanted to make was about the plane vs. car accident statistics. From what I understand, it is true that you are more likely to be in a car accident than a plane crash but plane crashes have higher fatality rates. Seems like I have a better chance in the car.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
@ringtailroxy (89):
Was that really necessary?
June 11th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Ok how bout the crew from the movie “Airplane”? They were heroic in a hilariously funny way…
June 11th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
@cheeshygirl (90):
“you are more likely to be in a car accident than a plane crash but plane crashes have higher fatality rates.”
how do you figure? most of us drive every day. for commuting, working students like myself, i travel >70 miles a day.
i fly about 3-6 times a year.
i thunk you may be referring to fender benders vs. falling out of the sky from 30,000 feet.
ever since i started school last year in downtown Miami, i seriously risk my life every day i drive I-95 downtown. nobody uses signals, people tailgate, and swerve across several lanes at once. damn third world drivers.
rtr
June 11th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
@cheeshygirl (91):
maybe not. but why is it always okay for others to say something about their belief system, but not okay for me to question it?
the way i see it, if you lay it out there, be prepared to hear others question it.
and be capable of discussing it. nobody is being insulting, derogatory, or rude. just curious.
i love to hear other opinions & beliefs-as well as the reasoning (or lack thereof) for it.
rtr
June 11th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
89 ringtailroxy
First off, I do not presume to know the heart of God. I do not know what reasons He had for not forsaking death to those three unfortunates. Perhaps he saved them from something more horrible in their future than instant death during a plane crash.
I do answer your comment to stir up a religious debate, but I don’t understand your “confusion” at me feeling blessed. My husband survived. I and my children were blessed. It does not mean I do not feel sympathy for those that lost their lives.
As a matter of fact, I had a violent published argument with an, I believe, Air Force officer via the Air Force Times who thought the pilot shouldn’t have been punished.
And what’s most disturbing to me at this moment… is that I recently, as in a few days ago, tried to find information regarding this crash online. There is no footage of the plane crash available. There is no outcome of the Courts Martial on the pilot or co-pilot. Everything available to the public online only details a brief outline of the crash and the coming courts marshall. If it was carried out, I cannot find nothing of it. It was commuted to an Article 15 (non-judiciary punishment), I can still find nothing of it. If there was ever a memorial service of any kind for those airmen who lost their lives, I can find nothing of it. That, I find, is just as disturbing as the plane crash itself.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
I meant to say that I do NOT answer your comment to stir up a religious debate…
Durn it, J …. we need an edit button!!!!
June 11th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Why does everything have to turn into a religion debate. Isn’t everyone tired of this, already?
June 11th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
I didn’t know we were debating.
I was simply stating my faith and my beliefs. You most certainly needn’t read or comment on any comments that you feel lend to religious debate.
Deep, in-depth philosophical conversations are what lead to debate.. none of which my comments contain. Only what I feel regarding this particular list and how it affects and relates to my own personal experiences.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
i would complain if you were to call nazis scum. many of the people who were ‘nazis’ during hitler’s rule were forced into the party or the army under fear of exile or imprisonment. hitler – the man, the person – was twisted. but not scum. he was still human.
the british would’ve called american colonists scum during the revolution. doesn’t mean they were. just fighting for a different set of rights.
just choose your words better.
they’re people too. just trying to do what they feel is necessary. whether or not its right or wrong.
one man’s terrorist is another man’s revolutionary.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Ringtailroxy, I will say what most others are thinking…your an idiot!!
Catchick, great story!!
Take Care.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
I wasn’t so much talking to you… You said you felt blessed and someone had to come along and poke at your belief. It irritates me that when anytime someone mentions they felt blessed or something along those lines, no atheist can let it rest without piping up with an implication that it’s crazy.
(sigh) Now look what I’ve done… I have stirred the pot.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Ooops- I meant to say that was at catchick!
June 11th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
no worries Nicosia… nope .. no pot-stirring done. The kettle is empty as far as I’m concerned. I refuse to argue or debate regarding my beliefs as they stand with regards to the story that I’ve mentioned. My.. don’t I sound all legalese…???
And you’re right… mention God and most atheists will explode… demanding that we shut the conversation down or accept that we are wrong… poor critters.
Thank you Devon. I appreciate your support.
I am, I will admit, more concerned than ever regarding the outcome of my husband’s “adventure”. I have thought of getting on a phone and asking questions… but when the military is concerned.. sometimes it seems best to let sleeping dogs lie….
June 12th, 2009 at 1:35 am
To #’s 18 & 29, both incompressible I think
to#92-lmao!
I’d like to point out that the Gimli Glider-bless her crew-actually landed on a decommissioned armed forces airport. The local drag racing either rented or bought it and used the runway for…well you.
Incidentally; the closing of the base had a dramatic impact on the local economy of Gimli and the citizens petitioned the Candian Gov’t to keep it open but to no avail.
Sorry…getting long winded here…
June 12th, 2009 at 1:36 am
drag racing club I meant…I get ahead of myself sometimes
June 12th, 2009 at 6:29 am
You missed this flight:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236
Still the commercial flight that glided from longest (19m without fuel) and safetly landed.
June 12th, 2009 at 6:31 am
Munro – your point is taken, but by and large, I don’t bow to moral relevance. “One man’s terrorist is another man’s revolutionary,” which has been propagated for a long time, falls falt with me. Sure, they’re human, but their cause is also reprehensible, and their means are repulsive.
This isn’t a “let’s agree to disagree” moment, either. If the civilized world can’t unequivically condemn the actions of AQ or Nazis AND hold the members of AQ and the Nazi party in utter contempt for what they do/did, then civilization is meaningless. Even if I do understand their desires and goals, I want them stopped, permanently, by any means necessary by the lawful governments of this world.
June 12th, 2009 at 6:33 am
106 – no I didn’t. Please see comment #49.
June 12th, 2009 at 6:47 am
Not exactly heroic, but in 1982 a 707 landed in the Nile river in Khartoum, Sudan after mistaking it for a runway. I don’t believe there were any deaths, and I have heard anecdotally from sources in Khartoum that after the crash, the pilots and crew just swam to shore and went home. http://www.theroadtothehorizon.org/2008/10/rumble-river-nile-darned-good-place-to.html
June 12th, 2009 at 8:49 am
I remember watching an episode of Air Crash Investigation that I’m almost sure was about #2. As I recall it, many other pilots were subsequently tested in flight-simulators to see if they could have done as well given the same conditions.
And not a single one of them could.
Balls of titanium on that pilot.
Even though 111 died, I still think that should be #1.
June 12th, 2009 at 9:04 am
@catchick (98):
i am not trying to ’stir the pot’
it just amazes me that those who believe feel it necessary to ’song His praises’ every chance they get. as for deep, in depth philosophical discussions lead into debate, what is more deep & in depth than our own belief system?
i am extremely interested in religious belief and how people justify them. i find it an amazingly complex aspect of human nature. yes, i am a strong atheist. but i respect and an even a little jealous of those with strong faith. it’s something i cannot experience, but i do not ever insult, down, or degrade those who do. i simply…
question everything.
also, it’s very unnerving the lack of any coverage of the incident you describe. i’m sure it’s a source of frustration for you and your husband. although it may be a safe bet to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ as you say concerning military affairs, that is where we dramatically differ. i could not, would not, can not stand by why any injustice or cover up of such a tragic event is underway…
please understand that i am not an idiot or looking for a fight. it is very difficult to speak openly about my lack of faith, and yet it is always more socially acceptable for those of faith to interject their beliefs or reasoning in everyday conversation.
i am absolutely certain you are thankful your hubby survived, and your family is together. i admire all military personnel…i certainly couldn’t do it.
@Devon in Canada (100):
i am not an idiot. quite the contrary. i did not insult anyone, unless they took my attempt at reasoning as an insult, which is highly narcissistic in my opinion.
i am currently a college student, work in oncology, and also manage to still have fun and be relatively attractive.
don’t know about you though. you seem like a newbie.
rtr
June 12th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Firstly – Devon in Canada? Quit giving our country a bad name by name calling. We’re supposed to be friendly eh? She didn’t insult anyone, she’s simply asking a question while being quite civil and respectful. Some folks see fortuitous events as a blessing, some see them as circumstance and coincidence.
I have to take issue at the comment mentioning that atheists “explode” at the mention of God. It’s not God that confuses us, it’s the smug sense of superiority that believers get while they claim to know more about how the world works. You don’t know any more about what happens after we die than I do, despite your beliefs.
If your faith comforts you and gives you a road map by which to live your life, then more power to you. Most of us atheists enjoy figuring things out for ourselves. If your Good Book and its interpretations teach you to be a kind, caring, moral person, all the better. There are some great lessons in there. What I don’t understand is those people (and by saying this I’m not presuming catchick is one of them) who need that fear of “Hell” in order to make them follow reasonable morals. Most atheists just do this on their own accord.
And to CurtScmurt – another Manitoban named Curt eh? If I’m not mistaken, they often use the Gimli airport for skydiving flights too!
June 12th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
@Devon in Canada (100): This seems rather harsh. It’s perfectly understandable that catchick would feel blessed after almost loosing her husband as discribed in this comment: @catchick (87): But in support of ringtailroxy, what I don’t care for are when movie stars or athletes thank God for winning some award or some compitition. As if God would care who wins the Oscar or some sporting event; all while children are starving somewhere in the world, or a young soilder is dying in a war somewhere. It’s as if God’s chearing on Team A over team B. Puh-lease.
June 12th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
@Bert (112):
thanks! i find a nice Canadian boy here, eh? if you ever find yourself in Fort Lauderdale, let me know and we’ll have a drink!
we get lots of ’snowbirds’ in South Florida each year. We love you! i especially love the open-minded grey hairs that strut it allout at the nude beach, the French-Canadian;s love of crepes (which the other 160 days a year serve excellent breakfast!), and the game they all play with the silver ball & pins…kinda like bowling?
@Moonbeam (113):
“What I don’t care for are when movie stars or athletes thank God for winning some award or some compitition.”
i wholeheartedly agree! it always makes me grit my teeth when an athlete thanks God or Jesus…because it wasn’t God that put in all those grueling hours at the gym, the early morning practices, the money & sweat & blood inot the goal…it was YOU. all YOU. yup. so take that moment of pride and thank YOURSELF! (for no one can do very much alone)
rtr
June 12th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
STLMo: oooh. i like your style. very precise. very correct. i have to say i agree with you that their actions are reprehensible.
i still don’t agree with the derogatory choice of wording. i suppose i’ve taken a much more psychological, individual approach to the subject of terrorism and i guess “moral irresponsibility of the individual”.
anyways. excellent list.
June 12th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
ringtailroxy: seriously? more media coverage? you mean to tell me that airline jets go down more often than what we’ve been hearing about in the news!????!!! you arent helping your “its safer to fly than it is to drive” cause!!!
June 12th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
and to pitch in to the religious argument its not about wether God is rooting for team a or team b its about thanking God for the talents he has given you that have enabled you to win. (if you are about to write an angry post please reread my comment with a more kind and soothing voice in mind)
June 12th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
And STLMo: its not a matter of moral relevance but rather perspective. Hitlers subjects saw him as a minor deity (hyperbole here) but the jews knew what he really was: a criminal. You see sometimes the side you are fighting for affects your judgement and perspective but certainly not what is true and what isnt true! And i COMPLETELY agree w/ you: MORAL RELATIVISM SUCKS!
June 12th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
these are btw my humble opinions and not to be thought of as facts hopefully that goes w/ out saying tho
June 12th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
@Looser (116):
maybe my wording was faulty…
what i meant to say was that the media hardly covers any of the thousands of fatalities due to auto accidnets that occur daily.
but one plane accident and it’s news for four days straight!
rtr
June 13th, 2009 at 7:29 am
@Looser (117): Now I think you’re adding in an angry tone to my comment, where honestly, there was none. I tend to be pretty low key and tolerant of differing views. Hopefully I don’t come across as sounding angry.
June 13th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I was on a flight last year heading from Auckland to Los Angeles on Air NZ. About an hour after take off they couldnt get the flaps to come down on one side of the plane which meant due to the lack of speed we wouldnt have made it to Los angeles with the amount of fuel we had. Had to dump fuel turn around and land with the flaps still up on one wing, swerved a bit when we landed but the crew were phenomenal and the pilot came and talked to everyone afterwards telling us in 25 years of Flying he had never had to do that before.
June 13th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
This is the part I never got when I heard of #1. If pilots are never taught to land safely in water, then why the hell do the passengers always get safety instructions on how to escape an aircraft in the water!!!
June 13th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Entertaining list, but I do agree with munro. Annoying to see bias.
June 14th, 2009 at 1:06 am
I think you should’ve omitted “scum”, there’s no room for personal political opinions in a list like this
June 14th, 2009 at 9:04 am
From the Airbus to the Spaceplane: The Future of Commercial Aviation
By William John Cox
URL of this article: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13954
June 14th, 2009 at 9:37 am
The DC 10 had problems with the design of the cargo doors as they opened outwards. The Airbus 300 relies to much on computers and less control for pilots. The recent crash of Air France may have been caused by icing of the Pitot tubes giving false speed to the automatic pilot and not allowing full control to the pilots. See my post above!
June 14th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Concerning people getting offended over the word “scum”: Aren’t you going a little overboard? What’s with everyone trying to be so god damned politically correct? Should s/he have used the word terrorists? In that case, they probably don’t like being called terrorists either. They probably see themselves as revolutionaries and freedom fighters. However, the majority of the world doesn’t see them as such. Are you really standing up for them? Of course they’re people like the rest of us, but honestly? Intentionally killing defenseless people is wrong, no matter who does it.
Anyways, lay off of it. It’s STLMo’s list. Let’s let STLMo say what STLMo wants to say. Leave it alone.
June 14th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
lost@c1: I did not take the time to read your link, I sort of short on time at the moment, so what I have to say may have been covered.
The problem with the Airbus is that the pilot has no override of the computer decisions. If the computer makes a faulty decision, as it apparently did in the Air France disaster, the cockpit crew has no way to correct it.
Can you imagine the horror the pilot and co-pilot must have felt as they faced certain death, with no way to help themselves or the passengers?
The Boeing equivalent *is* equipped with an override, so the pilot can be in control anytime he feels it necessary.
June 15th, 2009 at 5:50 am
segues: The problem with too much computerization is the remote sensors.. any glitch will feed false info and affect control.. Pilots must have over-ride ability as we all have had computer glitches! A simple analogy is the oxygen sensor in an automobile.. when it fails the result is a richer mixture resulting in poor gas mileage and increased emissions.. The cargo door problem was the cause of many DC10 crashes.. the horror must have been similar to the poor souls trapped in the World Trade Centre.
June 15th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Damn…. I’m flying on Friday. Really wish I hadn’t read that
June 15th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Moonbeam: no offense was meant by my comment. i apologize if you took it a bad manner. my fault not yours!
June 16th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I would think you could write a list from a more neutral perspective and leave out the “scum” remarks fairly easily.
Otherwise you can now start adding in remarks like “An Ex-Football playing nigger…” when remarking about OJ or tell us how the Nazi’s killed a bunch of kikes.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
You’ve gotta be kidding me. People are getting on STLMo’s case for calling terrorists “scum?” Is this for real? Are there really that many retarded people out there who take political correctness and relativism to THAT kind of extreme?
NO, “Gary,” calling terrorists “scum” is not tantamount to calling OJ Simpson a “nigger”—that’s quite simply absurd. One is representative of a moral judgement, however much you or someone else may or may not agree with it. The other is quite clearly a racial slur.
The idea of “scum” being equivalent to saying the Nazi’s killed “kikes” is even MORE ridiculous… the Jews having been victims, just as terrorist TARGETS are victims.
Now granted, if this was journalism, I’d say leave the “scum” out of it—as it’s not professional and is of course subjective. But this isn’t journalism. It’s the internet, and it’s List Universe.
Grow up kids. One man’s “terrorist” is NOT another man’s “freedom fighter” or “revolutionary.” A terrorist is a terrorist if they murder innocent people for political or religious or other dogmatic reasons.
June 16th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
@Randall (134): Thank you, Randall. You handled Gary with a lot more decorum than I could have mustered up at this time.
June 19th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
@Randall (134):
Randall rocks!! Always knows the right words to say.
Hats off to you, R. well done!!!
June 19th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
@Randall(134): Well.. since the Iraq war was based on lies, what does that make the US and other govts? A cargo plane would be considered an enemy supply unit complicit in rearming the enemy. So while I agree with your post, it doesn’t quite apply to this instance.
June 20th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
@Randall (134): “A terrorist is a terrorist if they murder innocent people for political or religious or other dogmatic reasons.”
Colonel Paul Tibbets is scum, then?
June 20th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
@Randall(134) Or the corporations behind WWII:
12 Apr 2008 … According to archive documents, the company financed Hitler during … the confiscation of shares of the Silesian-American Corporation, …
http://www.javno.com/…/bush-family-cooperated-with-hitler-and-bin-laden_139850 -
June 25th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
In the U.S. Children under 2 do not need their own seat for domestic flights. I flew many times with my son as a lap child. I don’t know what kind of parent wouldput their child on the floor whe danger arises. We ran into some serious mechanical problems during our last lap flight, and I buckled him into the seat belt and scrunched my 5′10 frame into the little space between the seats. I did not even think about putting him on the floor during our emergency landing.
June 30th, 2009 at 9:51 am
A terrorist is a terrorist if they murder innocent people for political or religious or other dogmatic reasons.
Every innocent civilian death in any war constitutes our military as terrorist scum?
Why would you say that?
June 30th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Now granted, if this was journalism, I’d say leave the “scum” out of it—as it’s not professional and is of course subjective. But this isn’t journalism. It’s the internet, and it’s List Universe.
Just because it’s the internet doesn’t mean it shouldn’t at least aspire to have some sort of professional decorum. If you are happy with seeing the site slowly slip into the muck of the rest of the internet “scum” so be it.
I remember a time when the site was filled with well written lists and discussions, not blatent rip offs of lists from magazines or other media, and definitly not filled with derogatory statements touting ones political beliefs.
June 30th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
@Gary(142)We humans will always have bias, it’s our nature!
July 1st, 2009 at 10:30 am
Whatever, Gary. Whatever.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:07 am
Whatever, Scum. Whatever.
July 3rd, 2009 at 12:49 am
Our veterinarian, her husband and her only child were on the Sioux City plane. Her husband and daughter were killed. She survived with her back broken in 3 places. I can’t help but wonder how she feels seeing this clip shown so many times.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:33 am
@STLMo – your last statement in #2 is incorrect. Not all passengers are required to have a seat. Infants under 2 years are not required to have a seat and can remain in-lap throughout the entire flight, international or not. You can verify this easily by visiting any one of the airline websites.