Listverse Logo Design Competition

1. 1. mattayeaux - December 11th, 2007 at 2:33 am

   I cannot wait to try do design a logo for you. AND I THINK I AM 1ST TO RESPOND YAY!!!

2. 2. mattayeaux - December 11th, 2007 at 2:40 am

   If it wasn’t for the ice storms here in Kansas I would be in bed. But, no power for 6 hours it is cold and I cannot sleep. So, sorry I get 1st and 2nd comment. BTW using my phone to comment.

3. 3. jfrater - December 11th, 2007 at 2:57 am

   mattayeaux: what type of phone? I posted my first comment from my iPhone the other day - very handy

4. 4. mattayeaux - December 11th, 2007 at 3:06 am

   Jamie, I have an audiovox with a pocket pc os I’m not very happy with it.

5. 5. Twinkle - December 11th, 2007 at 6:28 am

   i would love to do a design, but i don’t know anything about vector graphics yet. i wish i do… anyways, i’m excited about the entries. are you going to post them?

6. 6. jfrater - December 11th, 2007 at 7:02 am

   mattayeaux: I hated Windows Mobile - I am so glad to have moved to the iPhone.

   Twinkle: definitely - I will post them in the forums for everyone to see and comment

7. 7. JUSTINW - December 11th, 2007 at 9:12 am

   I am SO excited to start working on this! I can do this in microsoft paint right?

8. 8. Jess - December 11th, 2007 at 11:06 am

   Jamie, great competition and I can’t wait to see all the entries in the end! Are you planning to spread the word about this competition?

   I know that if one ever needs a logo, Digital Point Forums has quite amazing designers on their forums. If you go to the “Buy, Sell or Trade” forum and go to “Contests” they have a lot of people doing logos for only $10. Some of the logos are quite amazing!

   http://forums.digitalpoint.com/

   Sorry, I totally sounded like I was advertising, haha. I would enter this competition, but I have no skills making a logo so I thought I would recommend a forum that’s full of talent.

9. 9. Chica - December 11th, 2007 at 11:13 am

   I am so in! =D

10. 10. jfrater - December 11th, 2007 at 11:26 am

    Jess: thanks for that great suggestion - I will definitely post something there - unless you want to do it (if you already have a login).

    Chica: I am looking forward to seeing your submission

11. 11. Jess - December 11th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    No problem!

    Nah, it’s alright. You can post it when you get a chance…*cough* during your 30 hour flight.

12. 12. jfrater - December 11th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    hehe okay - I will do it

13. 13. Shabab - December 11th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    great idea j, maybe we could later have a “top 10 listverse logo submissions” list…haha….im pretty sure u’ll have more than enough submissions to make a list like that…

14. 14. InfiniteJorge - December 11th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    JFrat, did you get my email?

15. 15. InfiniteJorge - December 11th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

    And *eek* I disagree with Jess’ comment, the logo for the LV should be made BY an LV member, that would make it for fitting and unique to the site. Come on, we don’t need to go searching the entire internet for someone.

16. 16. InfiniteJorge - December 11th, 2007 at 2:13 pm

    Sorry, wasn’t trying to sound rude Jess, I was just saying I think it’d be more appropriate if the logo came from someone on this site.

17. 17. jfrater - December 11th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    Shabab: I am guessing so - I have already had one submission

18. 18. Chica - December 11th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    Ooh question though, where do I submit it?

19. 19. jfrater - December 11th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    Oops - fixed - send it to logo-contest@listverse.com

20. 20. Jess - December 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    No worries InfiniteJorge, it didn’t sound rude. I decided to just mention it in case Jamie does want to spread the word. If he doesn’t want to, that’s fine.

21. 21. Chica - December 11th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    Op, well I just emailed the first submissions I have, and forgot to add the additional information, if you need it then you can always email me back.

22. 22. newsong - December 11th, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    Awww, can’t we have just a little bit of salaciousness? Just kidding.

    I’ve got an idea, we’ll see if I have a moment to execute it. I am a graphic designer, after all. =)

23. 23. Kelsi - December 11th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    If only I were more creative! Ah well, can’t wait to see what wins. Will we get to see the entries after the deadline closes or after you choose or something?

24. 24. Bree - December 11th, 2007 at 9:52 pm

    Are overseas entries allowed

25. 25. abnaxus - December 12th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    hello everyone.Great website…addictive website:)

    The contest is a great idea but i think excluding all the great amature / semi-professional designers out there that can create excellent logos in photoshop isn’t “fair”.

    I know you’re most probably asking for vectors cause they are scalable and professional designers create logos like that but still you could leave a window open for psd submitions.

26. 26. jfrater - December 12th, 2007 at 4:08 am

    Bree - definitely.

    abnaxusyou are right - I am going to change that rule. All submissions so far have ignored it anyway

27. 27. abnaxus - December 12th, 2007 at 4:40 am

    jfrater : thank you. I might submit a logo if i manage to create something worthy.

28. 28. jfrater - December 12th, 2007 at 4:54 am

    abnaxus: all submissions are welcome

29. 29. Anderi - December 13th, 2007 at 7:53 pm

    James,

    Do you want the logo to reflect “Listverse” or “List Universe”?

    Also, could you give us the rgb & cmyk colour values of the site?

    Thanks.

    Anderi

30. 30. jfrater - December 14th, 2007 at 1:15 am

    Anderi: either is fine but most submissions thus far have used “listverse” and most people here seem to think of it as that. I will update the post above with RGB etc. in a moment.

31. 31. ameer - December 14th, 2007 at 11:09 am

    who is jfrater

32. 32. jfrater - December 14th, 2007 at 11:10 am

    ameer: he is me Jamie Frater - this is my website.

33. 33. jfrater - December 18th, 2007 at 4:29 am

    I have updated the terms - you can now win $200 or a $200 amazon voucher.

34. 34. Imran Farooqui - December 18th, 2007 at 7:38 am

    I M.Imran Farooqui
    From India & I am intrested to Participate in LOGO Design Competition,will You Please Sent All Terms in detail @imran_farooqui2000@yahoo.com

35. 35. Adel - December 18th, 2007 at 10:03 am

    Hi !
    I can’t believe this !!
    Altough i like and i respect this site, i was quite surprised by this.. I mean, when you want to have your bathroom fixed, do you set a contest amongst plumbers ??!
    You may not be aware of the fact that spec work (that’s how this is called) is highly unethical.
    if you have 100 submitters, 99 of them are working for free, and the winner gets 200 $ which is less than the market price for a logo design…
    checkout this site for more information www.no-spec.com

36. 36. jfrater - December 18th, 2007 at 10:09 am

    Adel: I am not familiar with the term “no-spec” - I also have a Christmas competition (in the judging stage) which used a similar pattern. I don’t understand why this would be considered unethical - if people don’t want to enter they don’t have to - surely to be unethical I would have to promise money to all and then not pay. And you know - in a way yes - people do hav a contest amongst plumbers etc. - they get them all to submit quotes and pick the one that suits them best.

37. 37. dangorironhide - December 18th, 2007 at 10:14 am

    Adel: It is peoples choice whether they enter this or not. It is pretty obvious that only one winning design will be chosen. The people who dont get their design choson aren’t really working for free, as they are doing it in their spare time, and their design will not be used for anything else.

    J could easily have hired someone to do it for less, but he decided to let the users of the site come up with some designs, to have some input into the site.

    Do you say that to every similar competition?

38. 38. leftdread - December 18th, 2007 at 10:27 am

    In like sin!

39. 39. Adel - December 18th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    didn’t mean to offend anyone, and no! i don’t say that to every similar competition, it just happens that i like this site, but not the fact that it’s involved with this kind of practices.. to clarify my positions, here is an excerpt from Aiga :
    “Although we realize that such contests are a popular way for organizations to generate publicity and participation—and to save costs—there are a number of reasons why asking for work without compensation except for a single design that is selected, which is termed speculative work in the profession, contradicts the ethics of our profession.

    The first is that design is a process. It involves time, creative energy, strategy and, most importantly, client participation. For a designer to generate work without going through this process is to create something that is undeveloped and that does not reflect the client’s input and participation. The resulting work is not truly representative of the value or level of service designers provide, nor does it adequately or appropriately address your needs as a client. Just as you wouldn’t seek legal or financial advice from a consultant prior to hiring them, a designer must also be well acquainted with your organization and goals if they are to make informed and responsible recommendations.

    The other reason is that expecting speculative or uncompensated work demonstrates a trivializing of the contribution design makes to creating value for clients. Of all the entrants in your contest or competition, only one will be selected as a finalist. The time and work of all others will have gone for naught. This attitude on the part of a prospective client is likely to result in receiving work from students, inexperienced or untrained designers, or those less likely to get work from more traditional ways of demonstrating the soundness of their approach toward clients’ problems. The pool of work from which you will select will not necessarily represent the quality of work you deserve from seeking a professional designer. In the end, everyone loses.”

40. 40. dan231 - December 18th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    This is coming from someone outside the industry, but I see this contest as a fun. I’d like to know if anyone submitting is a professional?

    What happens if Jamie hires a professional for a design and doesn’t like anything they come up with? Is he out the money for a logo he won’t use?

    This contest is open to everyone, he’s not asking for just professional entries. I see that as a huge difference.

41. 41. Eric - December 18th, 2007 at 5:30 pm

    “And you know - in a way yes - people do hav a contest amongst plumbers etc. - they get them all to submit quotes and pick the one that suits them best.”

    Jamie, your logic is off here because you’re not asking designers to submit bids: you’re asking them to do the work. I see that you’re a software designer. What would you say to a potential client who asked you to submit–not a bid–but a finished program in competition with dozens or hundreds of other software designers? In other words, you do all the work and maybe you’ll get paid for it.

42. 42. Catriona - December 18th, 2007 at 5:57 pm

    What’s the difference between this and a colouring competition that our children might enter? Isn’t this getting a bit serious…it was meant to be fun.

43. 43. jfrater - December 19th, 2007 at 1:41 am

    Eric I wouldn’t do it - I don’t have time. It kinda seems to me that the only people that would dislike this sort of thing are people who want to be picked on price not quality - which is worse I think.

44. 44. rhyno - December 19th, 2007 at 1:49 am

    Adel and Eric. Get a life the both of you! Sheesh - it’s just a fecking competition, stop being a couple of losers!

45. 45. Adel - December 19th, 2007 at 6:10 am

    Jamie, now imagine how harmful it’d be for your profession, if all the clients hosted software developpment contests, instead of asking developpers to do it.
    The next time you will submit a quote to a customer, he’ll tell you that he could get the job done for half the price using crowd-sourcing

46. 46. jfrater - December 19th, 2007 at 6:52 am

    Adel: if I couldn’t cut it in such strong competition I would change professions - it seems to me that you are asking for people’s freedoms to be squashed to help inferior designers get work.

47. 47. dangorironhide - December 19th, 2007 at 7:24 am

    Adel: Somehow I dont think that a professional designer would choose to do a contest like this instead of finding normal paid work. The problem with hiring a professional is that if you dont like the ideas they have for you, you have wasted money. With a competition loads of different designs would get sent in, so J can pick which ones HE thinks are best, instead of being told what is best by the designers.

    I had a look at the site you linked to, and the analogy on it is fairly crap. This is nothing like going into a tattoo parlour and saying ‘give me a design’. People can see what this site is all about, and so can design something that they think is good for it, rather than going into a random designers forum and saying ‘make me a logo for my site’, without saying what the site is.

48. 48. Adel - December 19th, 2007 at 7:36 am

    not at all, jamie, try to imagine this : I’m hosting a contest for my next lunch, i’m asking all restaurants to provide me with the best they have to offer. and i will pay only the best of them half the price of a normal meal…
    I’m sure it’s hard to imagine, now can someone explain to me why this has become standard practice in the design world??
    Now i’m not against competition, as long as the host is not the only winner… I mean by that, if you had to buy a logo design, it’d cost you far more than the 200 bucks.
    excertp from creative lattitude :”A company needs a logo, but rather than selecting a designer for the project, they announce a contest. Most times, the “prize” for the contest is considerably less than the job would be worth, and only the winner is compensated for their time and effort. For this reason, these contests usually attract novices and hobbyists rather than professional designers…
    In all cases, the Graphic Artists Guild (GAG) suggests that those conducting competitions initially review existing work of designers or artists, rather than requiring the execution of newly created, speculative work. Through a process of elimination, finalists are then asked to possibly submit rough sketches prior to being named the finalist for the project contract. A number of guideline recommendations then help the event sponsor select a final art piece or design. The organization also stresses that any prize awarded should be commensurate with the fair market value of the work being done.(not 200 bucks !!) GAG also recommends that the individual creating the work should retain a variety of rights for the work done”

    that’s exactly how it goes for our plumbers, you review them based on their estimates, their references (the work, they already have done); you ask them for a sketch and voila !

49. 49. dangorironhide - December 19th, 2007 at 7:48 am

    Adel: The difference with this competition, though, is that he is not asking professional designers to submit samples, he is asking amatuers, and people who would not usually do that kind of thing. It is a chance for people who think they have good ideas to have a chance of seeing their design around the site.

    Your restaurant analogy is wrong. This competition would be more like you going to some amatuer cooks who have a bit of time on their hands to try and make a good meal for you, though, of course, without them having to buy ingredients and the like.

    Competitions like this are a way for people to get more involved in the site, and it could even inspire some people to start designing more things.

    A similar example is a contest being run by The Hives at the moment to design a sleeve for their new single. It gives fans a chance to give something to the band, and see their designs being used around the world. They could have, and have many times in the past, used professional designers, but they decided to see what the fans, WHO KNOW THE BAND WELL (better than any designers), could come up with

50. 50. Adel - December 19th, 2007 at 8:00 am

    dragon : my restaurant analogy applies here, restaurants invest ingredients in a meal, designers invest time… in my billing, the only measure is the time spent by project.
    The fact is that in a real cooking competition, no one actually eats the meal.

51. 51. dangorironhide - December 19th, 2007 at 8:04 am

    Though as I have said, this competition is aimed at the amateur designers, who would do this in their spare time as a challenge or a bit of fun, rather than the professionals to use up their time on.

    If J wanted to use a professional designer, he could have hired one.

52. 52. kiwiboi - December 19th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    “You may not be aware of the fact that spec work (that’s how this is called) is highly unethical.”

    Puleeeze…any discussion about professional ethics should focus on the profession to whom a common code of conduct - or similar - applies (whether explicitly or otherwise), not the customer/client/whatever.

    I looked at the no-spec site that was referred to and, in my humble opinion, it reads like a self-serving whine from professional designers who are obviously having their lunch eaten by anybody who has design talent and a copy of Illustrator or similar.

    Whilst I have some sympathy with the situation they now find themselves in, I would add that the internet has engendered a quantuum universe of design work that never even existed 15 years ago. Calling oneself a “professional” confers no privilege over others who are just as capable of doing the job and who have the tools to do it (eg. Illustrator / Photoshop etc).

    Apologies for the length of this, but here is a wonderful quote from that silly website :

    >

53. 53. kiwiboi - December 19th, 2007 at 2:39 pm

    Hmmm…sorry about that. Hopefully the quote will show itself now :

    “6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.) Some will ask you to “submit work for consideration”. They may even be posing as some sort of “contest”. These are almost always scams. They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the “contest”, or be “chosen” for the gig, and find what they like most. They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications to it, and claim it as their own. You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest.”

54. 54. matchbook - December 19th, 2007 at 11:25 pm

    While I don’t think this little contest is unethical or bad for the design industry, the problems that Adel is referring too are very real and a big deal in the design and any creative industry. In the advertising world, agencies use all their resources creating entire campaigns to pitch to companies, only to have another agency picked to represent the company. Ad agencies and designers are held hostage by the people with the money. This is all starting to change as ad agencies are finding ways to deal with the problem. None-the-less, this competition is a simple logo contest and although resembling the bigger problem, can be ignored by professionals who need more than $200 to live and left to the amatures, students and casual designers who want to try their hand at a logo.

55. 55. Crimanon - December 30th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    I will give 2 cents to the person that can draw the best smiley face. Sounds stupid doesn’t it? Get of Jamies case. Don’t be such a downer on a CONTEST! Compete or don’t. There’s no entry fee, so no one is losing money. And anyone who thinks this is a scam isn’t a member. Correct me if I’m wrong but needing a username denotes being a Member, hence part of the community. If you’ve joined, to compete, you looked around first RIGHT. We don’t need greedy pro-programers, we need a Logo. Better from a member than from a Bill-is-God programer.

56. 56. Anderi - January 7th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Sorry I’m a bit late to weigh in!

    I’ve been on holiday and just came back to this progressing discussion of the ethics of asking a whole bunch of people to design a logo for Listverse.

    I’m a graphic designer. I have been for about 10 years now.

    When I read on your site that you were holding a logo competition, the first thing I thought was “Cool! This is gonna be fun!” Though I haven’t managed to submit an entry (too drunk too often!), I did come up with some thumbnails (mini designs)which I thought were cool.

    Now, as a designer, the way I see it is this: if you love to design, you won’t be worried about whether it’s fair or not that designers and non-designers are both going for the winner in this comp. 1. If you win, imagine the exposure! 2. If you don’t, re-use the design somewhere else!

    Here’s the concept of the comp: IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!

    I love this site! It’s fun! Therefore, any comp coming from here isn’t going to be about clawing your way past the other entrants to stand atop the bloody corpses of those not good enough.

    Here’s a bit of advice: Lighten up. Have fun. Rinse and repeat.

    Anderi

57. 57. jfrater - January 7th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Anderi: well said! I look forward to your contribution!

58. 58. Anderi - January 7th, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    That said, I assume this will obviously put me 10 points ahead of everyone, even though I haven’t entered anything?…

    I’d better get my arse in gear then!

59. 59. Crimanon - January 8th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Finally a designer that doesn’t have a problem. We need more people like you in the world.

60. 60. FelixMG - January 27th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Is there a way i could see the submissions, to get an idea of what i’m up against?

61. 61. xoom - January 29th, 2008 at 6:29 am

    The silly discussion above reminded me of this anecdote:

    The gipsy decides to sell his horse. One night in the tavern suggests to the villagers to participate in his sweepstakes with 10 bucks and one winner will get the horse. They all agree and pay the gipsy the money. A name is pulled out from a hat and the gipsy takes the lucky person in the back to give him the prize but there they find one dead horse.
    -What??? You want to f.. me, your horse is dead. I don’t want it!
    -Ok, sorry, i did not know, here is your money back. The gypsy gives the guy 10 dollars and starts walking
    -What about the rest of the folks? -the guy asks
    -Well, they didn’t win, did they?

62. 62. Cullinan - January 30th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    Wow - It never ceases to amaze me how something as trivial as a logo design contest can manifest into a question of ethics.

    Good luck to all the contestants.

    Mike C
    Art Director
    “It’s the beginners who are the real visionaries, not the experts.”

63. 63. tom - January 30th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Interesting competition, where do I post the logo?

64. 64. jfrater - January 30th, 2008 at 10:51 am

    tom: to my email address (under submissions above).

65. 65. jfrater - January 31st, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    ATTENTION: This competition ends in 1 hour and 20 minutes. Get your entries in ASAP - no late entries will be accepted.

66. 66. jfrater - February 1st, 2008 at 9:34 am

    ATTENTION: I am currently working through the submissions for the competition. I will select my favorite 15 which will then be presented on a list here today for your comments.

67. 67. Truly Ace Graphic Design - June 21st, 2008 at 8:50 am

    So what happened with this. Were none of the amateur entries good enough?

    Arguments against spec work aside, any ‘business owner’ commissioning an amateur logo design as opposed to a professional design isn’t doing their business any favours.

    I agree that professionals would not enter such a competition, and thus you end up with a non professional design - what’s the point in having a logo design that isn’t effective for your business.

    Do you know why companies have logo designs at all? The reason behind it all?

    Maybe this isn’t a business for you and that’s why the logo design isn’t that important to you, I don’t know this blog very well to know for sure.

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