Previously we posted a list on conspiracy theories, but the items on this list are not really suited to that genre. This is a list of bizarre theories or beliefs that many people subscribe to – with a list of the facts as far as modern science is concerned. This is not meant as a criticism of believers, but as a discussion of the theories and facts.
The Theory: The theory is by using certain objects such as a candle, a dagger and a wide variety of things you can bend the universe to your will completely ignoring the laws of physics and the practical laws of the universe.
The facts: Many people claim that they can use such powers as summoning demons, angels or other things and the OOBE or out of body experience under laboratory conditions but no one has been able to prove it so far. There are incidents that do defy logical explanations, such as some people’s claims of using the Ouija board, though since none of these events can be proven it is very weak evidence.
The Theory: This has to be one of the most outlandish theories ever brought forth, it is claimed most famously by David Icke but as well by several others. It states that the royal family of Britain, President Bush’s family as well as many other higher ups are actually aliens that are here to secretly take over earth, feeding off of humans to maintain their “human form”.
The facts: Most of the theorists proof consists of enhanced photos of people such as Mr. Bush with reptile looking eyes, though they have come forth with many other forms of proof such as videos and other reptile aspects of the reptoids here on earth. The videos all brought forth have been proven fake or are so obviously fake no one has wasted time and resources to look into it.
The Theory: The theory here is that the early Middle Ages never existed and we have been counting the earth almost 200 years older than it actually is.
The facts: Well, there is no solid way to prove or disprove it, since the very theory says the carbon dating of this age is flawed. They also claim the written test from that era is a forgery from people of that era. Though they have not put forth a reason why and there is no solid evidence from them to prove this theory since the basis of their theory stops us from being able to scientifically prove they are wrong. It is a matter of who believes what, though the evidence does seem to be stronger for the side against the Middle Ages not existing. Since all this theory says is that the carbon dating is incorrect and the writings are forgeries though we have an almost perfect time line with the carbon dating we use, we can almost cast this one aside without proof.
The Theory: The theory is the Nazis were much farther ahead than technology would allow them to be at the time. It ranges wildly but one of the most popular versions is that the Nazis landed on the moon as early as 1942 and established a moon base on the dark side of the moon. They also had establishments with at least half a dozen alien civilizations, and that the remaining Nazis remain on the moon to this day.
The facts: There are so many holes in this Theory, for example most skeptics believe that we haven’t had any contact at all with aliens as of yet, as well the dark side of the moon is freezing, they would need amazing machinery to accomplish living there. They would need a way to renew all their resources; this could be explained by growing plants for food and air. But they would also need an energy source of some kind, which there would have to be one not yet discovered by us back here on earth.
The Theory: The theory is the earth is actually hollow and is not filled with magma. It ranges from there being several layered shells on the inside (usually four) to the inside having ground like ours, with 800 miles of crust between us and them, most people usually say there is also an inner sun.
The facts: Though this is not quite as insane or as impossible as the others it is still highly unlikely. We don’t know for sure what’s under our earth’s crust but this theory completely forgets to mention where the magma that erupts from volcanoes comes from if the earth is hollow. As well, the inner sun would pose numerous problems such as the inner inhabitants most likely being sucked into its gravity or caught in solar flares from it. This theory is often supported by the fact that it is impossible to search the bottom of the Arctic currently for it. There is also a castle in Europe with defenses set to defend against an attack from the inside out. Since the hole to the inner earth is under a chapel in the castle, that would involve taking down the castle to check this theory, the owner’s won’t allow this, many often use this as proof. Note sometimes this and number 7 have been mixed together, saying the remaining Nazis fled to the inner earth.
The theory: The theory here is that Mars is already being terraformed behind our backs by groups such as NASA and the ESA, it is a fairly new claim and is supported only by speculation and a few pictures.
The facts: First off the price, it seems almost no theorist takes price into account when they come up with these ideas, NASA is already having trouble as it is keeping themselves funded. The price of bringing something to Mars that could terraform it would cost billions, possibly even trillions. The computer technology required to make sure it did every little thing right would cost even more. Not to mention the time, it takes a Lander to get to Mars from earth so something that big would take years to get there and might not even work when it did. Our best bet for terraforming Mars at the moment is to take prehistoric microbes that feed off carbon dioxide and others gases and let them form Mars in the same way scientists think they formed earth. Of course this in itself would take millions of years, at the present there seems no way to terraform Mars and no reason to.
The Theory: The theory is that using your mind to think positive and encourage yourself and others to feel better really helps and can replace medicine.
The facts: Sadly this is believed by many people, and though it certainly can’t hurt for the common cold, since rest and relaxation are the best things for it after all. For more serious diseases people who really believe in this may not go to a doctor, and as such they can damage their body, or even kill themselves. This is no more effective than prayer which when it does seem to work can be explained away as coincidence. Many people actually do believe in it and luckily for some of them the placebo effect makes a major appearance, since they think their getting better, their bodies get stronger and they do sometimes pull through.
The Theory: We each have seven chakras going down from the top of our head to our feet, they can be used for a variety of things and awakening one can usually help you with a specific thing, such as enhanced hearing, sudden realization and the list goes on.
The facts: There is no way to prove these things exist. But people believe in them, some more so than a soul. They are usually connected with paranormal cases and as such usually don’t have any specific stories all their own. Though there have been some reports of people having slightly greater abilities or knowing what will happen before it does. This is usually explained by a ’sixth sense’, often described as the brain’s way to activate the subconscious mind which helps us gather information and process it in such a way that we don’t know how we acquired it but we have the information. This can explain why people think they’ve been to places they never have, and many other feelings of that nature; this can also explain away almost all if not all of the chakra cases.
The Theory: The theory here is that life does not exist, we are all in fact test programs in a giant virtual reality or the players of that reality itself.
The facts: Once again there is no specific way to disprove this theory. Though it would mean in reality we would probably look much different or not exist at all. There is not much of a base for this to stand on, since it is another ‘can’t prove can’t disprove’ paradox, it is back to our own judgment. Strange as it may seem this theory could explain a lot of the problems with the world and things such as carbon dating. If we all were/are just test subjects in a large-scale virtual reality test, then all of the anomalies we find, and many of the world mysteries could be explained as bugs and glitches in the program. There is no solid proof that it does exist though, and it is most likely just generated by people’s fears of the age of technology we’re stepping into, and what it may do to us.
The Theory: Though the theory varies greatly from religion to religion, most of them believe that there is a being or beings greater then anything else in the universe that created the earth. It is still generally accepted in western civilization that there is a god.
The facts: We find ourselves at another paradox, there is no way to prove or disprove any religion. Many believers in their religion will often say god is testing us as he has faked much of the things we see in history. Such as dinosaur bones being millions of years old. However skeptics usually point out other facts, such as the second you accept one religion you are literally rejecting thousands of others. Skeptics will also point to the overwhelming evidence that all so-called effects of prayer can be explained through mere coincidence. They will also point to errors in the Bible writings, and problems with the whole idea of heaven in general. Despite this evidence many people continue to worship their gods. Skeptics generally believe that religion was established for one of two reasons. Reason one because people were scared and looked for a way to say this life isn’t all you get. The second reason is that people were confused and tried to come up with an answer as to why and how all this stuff got here, so they came up with the ideas of gods. None the less following certain things from certain religions isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The one common thing you will find in all religions usually written in different words but with the same meaning: do unto others what you would want others to do to you. A fine motto to live by.
Contributor: Beranabus, Editor: Cyn















July 25th, 2008 at 3:18 am
i smell trouble with #1…
July 25th, 2008 at 3:23 am
rob: I think you’re right. That one is going to cause a stir.
I’ve read David Icke’s stuff on reptilian alien races. Potent stuff for any conspiracy theorist.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:24 am
Fix the grammatical mistakes please
Interesting list though
July 25th, 2008 at 3:25 am
I nominate entry 8 as the longest sentence I’ve read this week…
July 25th, 2008 at 3:28 am
About #7: the dark side of the moon is not “freezing”. Not always, anyway.
The dark side of the moon is not always dark: when here there is a new moon, the dark side is bright (though we don’t see it) and the temperature on the surface goes over the boiling point of water.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:31 am
Anyway, I agree than #1 has no sense. I’m not religious and I’m against religion, but religion is commonplace. There is nothing “bizarre” (i.e. grossly unconventional or unusual, following the dictionary) in it, and it feels forced to put it on a list along with the hollow Earth. The same thing could be said for other items on the list.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:45 am
Do onto others what has been done to you!
July 25th, 2008 at 3:46 am
Concerning numbers four and one. Positive thoughts have actually been linked somewhat to healing and being healthy. Not all on their own when it comes to serious illnesses of course. Medicine is the number one factor but people with positive outlooks have a better chance at recovering. Angry and depressed people are aslo usually physically weaker than the happy. Number four is not so far-fetched it’s one of the many mysteries within the mind-body connection.
As for number one, I don’t beleive in any particular religion or their version of god. However I do not call it stupid either. Consider this, if matter cannot be created nor destroyed then how did it get here in the first place? How did that infinately dense matter before the big bang get there if it cannot be created?
July 25th, 2008 at 8:27 am
ah, the hollow earth theory. that was a short on one of my favorite mst 3ks… “the mole people”. classic.
shouldn’t #1 say “God” instead of “religion”? religion exisits, its more the question of if God exists that people ponder.
i’ve never heard of holographic reality. don’t take the red pill.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:28 am
It is Mars, not Mar’s. It’s not something that belongs to Mar.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:31 am
I’ll keep it short and true:
All of them are bullsh*t
So why discuss it? haha
July 25th, 2008 at 8:31 am
I was Just Wondering Concerning #6, which Castle are you reffering to?
July 25th, 2008 at 8:31 am
nice list bytheway,
July 25th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Nice list; love the holographic-reality theory! And what about the Flat Earth Society; that’s a society that believes that the earth is flat and all the top scientists are covering it up, and
July 25th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Nice list; love the holographic-reality theory! And what about the Flat Earth Society; that’s a society that believes that the earth is flat and all the top scientists are covering it up, and posting fake pictures of a round earth. They have their own website with proof and stuff; its actually really interesting!
July 25th, 2008 at 8:36 am
I grow tired of opinion lists. You can’t get excited and want to tell all your friends about somebody’s opinion. Save those for the forum and bring back factual lists!
Also, please check the grammar and spelling. Errors detract from the quality of this site.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Thanks for taking it down for a couple hours to fix *most* of the spelling and grammatical errors.
It’s still a pretty bum list though.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:43 am
I liked #2 better when it was called The Matrix…
Personally though, I was hoping to see the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis
July 25th, 2008 at 8:45 am
It’s true, you can pseudo-science your way into getting people to believe anything!
Nice list, but yeah- number one should be “gods” rather than religion. You could say I guess that, as our “sentience” is just material stuff (ie. No “soul”- just meat and chemicals and whatever else a brain is) then it’s quite possible that the universe is material that forms some kind of “sentience”.
Hell, you’d get some believers and it’s impossible to prove either way! It’s certainly more plausible than the guy in the sky sending our “souls” to some immaterial heaven and hell (are they officially immaterial or do people still think hell’s underground like in the Divine Comedy, or what?).
July 25th, 2008 at 8:45 am
I take issue with no 1 solely for calling it bizarre. I don’t think it counts as bizarre when approximately half of the worlds population subscribe to the “theory”. Also anthropolgists and scientists in related fields have attributed religion to a simple need to beleive in something greater, so if you look at it from that perspective it’s far from bizarre.
I do agree that there is little to no way to prove or disprove religion.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:46 am
lol joshua
this is off topic but what bothers me about religion is that people think it’s completely normal to believe in god but it makes you CRAZY to believe in aliens.
I mean, just because the idea of religion is older doesn’t mean it’s better, and even though 99.99999% of the claims aren’t true, there have been images, videos, and claims and stuff about people seeing aliens and ufos, so why is it so crazy to believe in that kind of stuff?
July 25th, 2008 at 8:48 am
For #10: usage of the Ouija board and other moving things has been disproved by people making small unconscious movements in the direction they expect things to go.
#5: The terraforming of Mars would start by landing machines on the surface which could travel around converting the natural minerals into carbon dioxide to pump into the atmosphere. This would thicken the atmosphere and create an effect similar to global warming here on earth, warming the place up. They would then start landing mosses and lichens on, to bring more oxygen to the place, eventually moving on to larger plants, then animals etc.
Apart from that, interesting list, but the addition of religion doesn’t seem to add anything to the list, it just looks to me like a shit-stirrer.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:48 am
I liked #2 better when it was called The Matrix…
Personally though, I was hoping to see the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis included on this list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis
July 25th, 2008 at 8:50 am
stupid list… this site has lost my respect.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:51 am
I want to know where this hollow earth castle is and see what it looks like.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:52 am
The inability to prove something is not proof that it does not exist, and vise versa.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Ahh yet another list that had the potential to be interesting, but instead decided to be another self-important slander against religion. It’s always amusing to watch those who are anti-religion go out of their way to slam religion in any way possible.
Frankly, I think it detracts from the list as a whole. That’s rather sad, honestly, because many of the other theories would have been fun to discuss.
I’m not religious, but I wouldn’t call religion a “bizarre theory” and the “facts” are matters of opinion. The author of the list holds him/herself superior to those who follow religion. That’s arrogance at its finest. Quite typical with these sorts of lists.
Be irreligious, don’t be pompous about it. It’s annoying and, honestly, rather childish.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:52 am
“stupid list… this site has lost my respect.”
Not really my business… but why?
I mean, it’s one list out of a gazillion on this site. And it’s interesting.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Also- I like how science and facts are blamed for somehow disrespecting religioun and the religious. Is it science’s fault that religion doesn’t tally up?
If you’re gonna get pissy at someone, get pissy at the people who tried to pass off
http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-bizarre-biblical-tales/
as truth- at the original fraudsters, not at the uncoverers of such fraud. Don’t shoot the messenger is what I mean to say!
July 25th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Kowzilla:
“I liked #2 better when it was called The Matrix…”
lol love it. Methinks this list will have many more comment by the time I get back from lunch. Oh dear, places we’ll go…
July 25th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Not to mention jfrater is not the one who wrote the list.
He published it, but I’m sure the intent was to stir up discussion.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:04 am
To Hobolad – From the author of the list him/herself “We find ourselves at another paradox, there is no way to prove or disprove any religion”.
This is a list of theories. Religion isn’t considered a “theory”. The author of the list put religion on there specifically to be controversial and/or to take the pose of many, supposed, intellects who believe that anyone who practices a religion is somehow less intelligent than they. Again, it’s the height of pomposity.
Whether or not I agree with religion and belief is irrelevent. I don’t toute myself as an intellectual better because of that stance.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:08 am
One last thing, when someone states they will be listing supporting facts I expect to actually see facts. Things like, supporting documentation would be nice. When the ‘paranormal’ and psychics were on the chopping block, at least there were clips showing how such things were debunked.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Actually this was not meant to be a “shit-stirrer”. Nor was it meant to be a slam against any religion, I had originally had something else for the first place and religion as a bonus, J obviously figured it would be better this way. People are free to think what they want, and it’s in no ones place to judge them for what they do.
The intent by putting it as a bonus was because overall, religion/god’s are just theories. I’m not saying that in a bad way, I’m saying it because it is the most widely accepted and believed theory, and I thought it would be an interesting addition. Apologies to anyone who might have been offended by that, but understand this was not a bash against religion.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:15 am
You can’t disprove the others on this list, either. You can point out how religious claims, or magical claims, or Holographic-reality claims compare to the facts.
To not include religion would be a major cop-out, criticism of a *theory* (what makes religion more than that?) isn’t saying that a person is intellectually better, it’s challenging a theory and waiting for a response. “You think you’re better than me because of your science and *questions*” isn’t an intellectual response.
People can believe whatever the hell they like, but I don’t see why they should expect their beliefs to never be questioned, though if they reply to questioning is up to them.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:16 am
well this was a great list, Great job beranabus!
July 25th, 2008 at 9:16 am
I agree with those who say there is nothing “bizarre” about religion, or the need for it in society. I would say bizarre would be something that a minority This is probably the most obvious attempt to stir the pot that I’ve seen.
Also, the “facts” section should be deleted from all the entries. A theory is no longer a theory when it’s a fact, and conversely, if it is proven incorrect (inasmuch as possible) with facts, a theory cannot remain a theory any longer, can it? Also, if you can’t disprove the theory, why list a section called “Facts” or attempt to dispute them.
This list is probably a low point for Listverse. I think the theories are interesting, but the surrounding text is poor.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:21 am
you mean they are just theories to *you*. to others it is a very real thing.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I can’t understand the criticism this list is getting! There’s no claim that the theories are definitely false, it’s an explanation of what the theory is and then comparing that theory to accepted fact. What’s so bad about that?
July 25th, 2008 at 9:26 am
“This is a list of bizarre theories or beliefs that many people subscribe to – with a list of the facts as far as modern science is concerned.”
I merely state that religion is used to stir controversy because it is listed under this heading of bizarre. I don’t disagree that the others may be construed as bizarre. There are fewer adherents. But when we’re referring to, at least, half the world’s populace I don’t think “bizarre” truly applies.
Also the author states that a list of facts to disprove the theory would be provided. None of the theories listed have any scientific ‘facts’ noted, at all. There is no supporting evidence or documentation, just other theories from the scientific community or vague references that it can’t be proven.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Regarding #2, holographic reality:
There is a theory out there that, logically, this is almost a 100% certainty. I don’t personally subscribe to it (too mind boggling), but it something along the lines of ‘the universe has existed for so long that some civilization must have come up with the computing power to create virtual universes, and have then likely created millions or billions or infinite fake universes. Therefore, the odds that we are in the sole ‘real’ universe among billions of fakes are staggeringly low.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Great Great list Beranabus!
Very interesting
July 25th, 2008 at 9:29 am
From author: “People can believe whatever the hell they like, but I don’t see why they should expect their beliefs to never be questioned, though if they reply to questioning is up to them.”
I haven’t any issue with my beliefs being questioned, just as any good scientist wouldn’t have issue with their theories being questioned. That’s why they’re still theories and not ‘laws’. I take umbrage when someone claims to have facts to disprove said theories, but provides opinion and/or vague references. Solid research/evidence would be nice – if you’re claiming to have it (which you do in your introduction)
July 25th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Fair enough, but it is an interesting piece on a website rather than some kind of scientific journal. The Astonishing Miracles list didn’t go into heavy detail, either- but it’s easy enough to google should complete clarification be required.
About the bizarre thing, bizarre may be in the eye of the beholder, sure. Can’t really argue with that.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:32 am
I really liked this list. I’m curious about #8. How the hell did this theory get started and how do the explain the missing time?
July 25th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Seems to me like someone needs to take a logic class. As mentioned before, “cannot prove or disprove” does not mean that something does or does not exist. There IS such thing as inductive reasoning, ya know.
Critical Thinking 101.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:38 am
proofread! what is Mar’s?
July 25th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Colinius Romul: haha, i had that same thought
July 25th, 2008 at 9:40 am
I’m not the author though (post 42)
I do like it though, it was interesting- I enjoyed it. It made attempts to placate the followers of these theories and make it obvious that no monopoly of the truth is claimed that I certainly wouldn’t have. I can’t understand the criticisms.
I do find it delicious that people say those who challenge religions are claiming to be intellectually superior, when it’s the religions that make unsupported claims of being the One True belief etc.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Not all religions make that claim. In fact, not even ‘most’ do.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:44 am
“Not all religions make that claim. In fact, not even ‘most’ do.”
I can only really think of Buddhism that doesn’t. Christianity certainly does, as does Islam. From what I remember of church, it’s very little “this is what we think and this is why and this is the opposing viewpoint, it’s up to you to decide” and a whole lot of “this is correct, it’s BIBLE!”
July 25th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Shinto, Taoism, Sikhism, Wicca, Confusionism, Santeria, Hinduism, etc. do not claim to be “The One”. I am well aware of the patriarchal monotheist’s proclamations of the “one true faith”, but I wouldn’t paint all religions with their brush.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:50 am
I have to say this list had the potential for being very interesting, but in all honesty I had a difficult time following the text, and stopped reading altogether by item number three. This, of course, is coming from someone who spends all day proof-reading articles, so I’m trained to nit-pick. It was rather distracting, though, and took away from the overall impact of the list.
Other than that I thought the concept was a good one, and will be spending my afternoon looking some of these theories up!
July 25th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Johnny T: energy cannot be created or destroyed, not matter.
matter sure as hell can be created and destroyed.
energy just transfers from one thing to another.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Wow, great (and INSANE) list! All of the items are worth discussion as long as several list discussion put together!!!
After being led to a dead link when trying to click its link on the latest lists thingie, I thought this one was a goner! Thank the gods it’s here now for everyone to enjoy and rant about
July 25th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Another nice “bizarre theory” is the “twin Earth” or “Nemesis” theory.
It claims that there is another planet, called Nemesis, that is identical to Earth in size, shape, environment and orbital plane, that orbits the Sun directly opposite our Earth. We can never see it because the Sun is in the way.
It is claimed that a variety of objects/beings come from this planet, including aliens (or the Nemesians are advanced), angels, gods (of many cultures – ancient and current), demons, dinosaurs, Atlantis myths, etc.
Proof against it comes from NASA and things like shuttle astronauts haven’t seen it, Hubble hasn’t seen it, etc.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:56 am
krysten: Actually, according to the Law of Conservation of Mass/Matter it can’t.
Do a bit of research, I don’t just want to copy/paste from 900 scientific websites.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:00 am
*All of the items are worthy of discussion as long as several list discussions put together!!!
Oh, to still dream of a wonderful edit button…
July 25th, 2008 at 10:00 am
It makes me sad that a list this interesting is made so unreadable by extensive grammatical errors.
Otherwise, though, fun entry!
July 25th, 2008 at 10:01 am
“Shinto, Taoism, Sikhism, Wicca, Confusionism, Santeria, Hinduism, etc. do not claim to be “The One”. I am well aware of the patriarchal monotheist’s proclamations of the “one true faith”, but I wouldn’t paint all religions with their brush.”
Sure, thery’re hardly the norm though. Taosim isn’t the immediate association with the word “religion”. The ones that do claim a monopoly of the truth tend to be the ones criticised in any case precisely because of their claims of the Truth (which a capital T).
July 25th, 2008 at 10:01 am
It would have been nice to see the inclusion of things like the String Theory or parallel universes. People really believe in those and I would definately call those bizarre.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:03 am
this list is certainly not among the better ones on listverse.
Some of the arguments against some of the theories plainly states “there is no proof”. That’s a great reason to not believe in the theory but had made this quite a dull read. (although some examples are interesting)
the author doesnt seem to have done much research into this
July 25th, 2008 at 10:04 am
“Sure, thery’re hardly the norm though. Taosim isn’t the immediate association with the word “religion”. The ones that do claim a monopoly of the truth tend to be the ones criticised in any case precisely because of their claims of the Truth (which a capital T).”
They’re not completely outside the norm either. Some of the aforementioned religions have hundreds of thousands or millions of adherents. I would state that those who claim Truth tend to have the loudest voices, though.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:06 am
“They’re not completely outside the norm either. Some of the aforementioned religions have hundreds of thousands or millions of adherents. I would state that those who claim Truth tend to have the loudest voices, though.
”
True, true! I guess it’s a fault of mine that religion immediately implies Christianity for me. So much for the UK’s supposed destruction of culture, I’d guess for most in the UK “religion” means “Christianity” still.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Oh right, #9 shouldn’t be REPOTOIDS but REPTOIDS (obviously
)
July 25th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Really interesting theories but I would have liked to see shorter more concise explanations. Other than that very interesting Beranabus!
July 25th, 2008 at 10:10 am
J Frater,
Religion does a lot of good for people. It encourages compassion, charity, unity, goodwill towards others and much more. This world is much better off with religion than without it. The fact that it is included in this list makes me sick. Even if you don’t believe it yourself, a smart person such as yourself should be able to see all the good it does for humanity. I’m very disappointed in you. I really respect you, but the more I read the lists on this site, the more I think that you use it as a soap box for your own personal opinions.
Get back to the facts.
P.S. #4…. they’re, not their
July 25th, 2008 at 10:14 am
jules – jfrater didn’t write this list..
Hobolad – “True, true! I guess it’s a fault of mine that religion immediately implies Christianity for me. So much for the UK’s supposed destruction of culture, I’d guess for most in the UK “religion” means “Christianity” still.”
That’s the case here in the USA, honestly. I’m just an oddball who thinks of all the other religions too. I study world religions as a hobby ;>
July 25th, 2008 at 10:16 am
@julesw81: These lists are done by a load of different people, this one in particular isn’t by jfrater. Whether religion is a positive force is debatable (I agree that it is, or at least was a force for good- even a necessary one) but, like I said it’s *debatable*- as in it should be discussed and talked about (they’re both the same thing, not sure why I added “talked about”).
July 25th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Haha David Icke is crazy. I have thoght about Holographic-reality myself, its cool, but is probably wrong.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:19 am
LOL, did somebody get #7 from the episode of Star Trek: Enterprise where Captain Archer is sent back in time where aliens have helped the Nazis take over the U.S.?
July 25th, 2008 at 10:21 am
“I can’t understand the criticism this list is getting! There’s no claim that the theories are definitely false, it’s an explanation of what the theory is and then comparing that theory to accepted fact. What’s so bad about that?”
Look at the title of this list! If calling a theory “bizarre” is not implicitly saying, “How can any reasonable person believe this crap?” then what exactly IS it supposed to mean?
JFrater: If you wonder why people think this site has an Atheistic bias, here’s exhibit A.
———-
In a less confrontational point: The problem with #2 is a common one in transcendental belief systems, namely if existence itself is an illusion, how is something that doesn’t exist supposed to experience an illusion if it’s not there in the first place?
July 25th, 2008 at 10:26 am
“Look at the title of this list! If calling a theory “bizarre” is not implicitly saying, “How can any reasonable person believe this crap?” then what exactly IS it supposed to mean?”
Thank you, you’ve said in a couple of sentences what I’d been trying to get across.
Bizarre – conspicuously or grossly unconventional or unusual
July 25th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Interesting list, but #9 does not belong here, as it is a stone cold fact of life.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:30 am
“Do unto others as you would have them do to you”
Does this sound like a bizarre theory ? No, it’s a moral.
“God” isn’t a magician, he’s a master scientist/architect!
July 25th, 2008 at 10:32 am
#4 – Could not the placebo effect be the same thing as healing thoughts? You think that your taking something that is going to make you better and you actually get better by just thinking it. Take away the “something” that you are taking and replace it with “healing thoughts” and you would get the same result, right?
July 25th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I saw #1 coming from a mile a way when I read the title. That was about all I could read as well- I have a hard time taking someone’s opinions seriously when it is apparent that they have not even mastered fifth grade grammer.
If you want to talk about your opinions all day perhaps you could get a livejournal
July 25th, 2008 at 11:14 am
They’re all true. In fact, the reptoids are the off spring of Shakra-beings and moon-Nazis from the dark ages.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:14 am
julesw81 you’re right,
Aside from the persecution of people, the segregation of people, the many wars fought, the violence it breeds, for example, the crusades, the Spanish inquisitions, the stoning of rape victims in northern africa etc. and the suppression of free thought and creativity…
… the hypocrisy of the powers that be in certain churches with their blatant non-compliance to the very 10 commandments they teach and preach for us to follow…
… or the wife-beating man who neglects his kids and pisses his paycheck away at the bar and thinks its all justified by going to confession or taking communion on Sunday…
… and oppressive governments using it as a tool to keep the status quo…
… and a lot of people that I have met that pervert the Bible to justify their own ignorance and/or stupidity,
and just having some holier-than-thou person try and cram their beliefs down my throat like I haven’t heard it all before, like some glorified telemarketer…
Religion is not so bad at all!
July 25th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Religion is like dungeons and dragons, it works on paper, but you try fighting a REAL dragon with a pair of dice =D
July 25th, 2008 at 11:24 am
I enjoyed reading the different conspiracy theories and any proof to back them up, even though I had heard of most of them. I can’t excuse the grammatical and spelling errors, which detracted from the list. (I don’t claim perfection in my lists, but I know the difference between a possessive and a regular word.)
I also agree that #1 could have been replaced with something else, even just God/god/gods over religion.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Crumpet, you may have fun on some of the lists, reading the works of S_R. He’s since banned, but I believe the testament to his idiocy still stands.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:29 am
WOW CRUMPET!!
Every argument you just cited shows a real lack of any kind of wisdom what-so-ever! These common arguments from non-believe are so emotionally laced, it’s pathetic!
It’s like saying that because yor dad beat you, that fatherhood is wrong! Oh, wait! How about if you had a teacher that told you that 2+2=5, that means that all teachers, in fact all education is wrong!
Nice logic!
July 25th, 2008 at 11:32 am
#4: “This is no more effective than prayer which when it does seem to work can be explained away as coincidence.”
Really? Have you tried it?
People think that prayer is just asking God for stuff and when you don’t get what you want, then obviously prayer doesn’t work.
God’s not a vending machine. You can’t just put in prayer, pick what you want and suddenly get it. It doesn’t work that way.
#1: “None the less following certain things from certain religions isn’t necessarily a bad thing.”
So after completely slamming religion in the first part of the entry, I can’t help but feel the condescending tone oozing out of the way the entry says “oh, but it’s okay if you choose to follow *some* aspects of religion…there, there…”
Don’t cheapen what others devote their lives to. The billions of people who are religious or believe in God (and there’s a difference), are all of them, every single of one of them honestly brainwashed and complete idiots. Religion’s not a buffet, you can’t take a scoop of meditation, a handful of prayer, a few slices of incense and hope your life is ‘enriched’.
And it’s technically “Love your neighbour as yourself” that Jesus gave as the second greatest commandment.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:39 am
amen
July 25th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Awesome list! =D
I really like all of your lists x]
July 25th, 2008 at 11:48 am
So, belief in any kind of deity is a “bizarre theory,” huh?
I think it’s much more bizarre for people to be able to ponder such things, which requires consciousness or self-awareness, which they cannot seem to grasp; to use their eyes and depend on a myriad of other bodily functions that man cannot hope to duplicate, but which they blithely conclude sprang up through chance; and to ignore the fact that the universe–matter in its many forms, energy, laws of physics–had to come from somewhere. Now that’s what I call willful blindness.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Well,everything that is man-made could be classified as “bizarre” to a certain point-and I can’t see why this shouldn’t be applied to religion as well.Richard Dawkins is very right in suggesting that every mention of religion causes reactions which are well beyond logic or explanation in their severity.Why doesn’t any other man-made theory do that?Truly bizarre,eh…
Seven,unless you are absolutely certain about the level of your grammar(not grammer),maybe you should refrain form criticising others?!(I am not brilliant at it myself,but this is partially justified by the fact that English is my third language,I think!)
I like the list,but I agree that it could be improved.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:54 am
#4 HEALING THOUGHTS – there is an interesting Englishman called Dr. Rupert Sheldrake who has re-introduced the concept of ‘Morphic Fields’in an attempt, amongst other things, to explain this type of phenomena. Basically he postulates that rather than ‘laws’ of science (he is a botanist) their could be habits (the universe has a memory). So the more some thing happens (at a human or organic level), the more likely it is to happen again. Some of the experimental evidence he gives includes the difficulty of growing newly discovered crystals (compared to later attempts), and a lovely experiment that showed it is far easier to solve crossword puzzles the day after they have appeared. So the more people doing the same thing, the more likely that habit will give a result…
http://www.sheldrake.org/homepage.html
#2 HOLOGRAPHIC REALITY – here is a delightful philosophical ‘proof’ by Neil Bostrum (director of the Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford University):
“At least one of the following propositions is true:
(1) the human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a “posthuman” stage;
(2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof);
(3) we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation. It follows that the belief that there is a significant chance that we will one day become posthumans who run ancestor-simulations is false, unless we are currently living in a simulation…”
http://www.nickbostrom.com/
http://www.simulation-argument.com/
If nothing else, this list should stimulate our thinking about the bigger picture.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:55 am
The beauty of theories and opinions is that they can be discussed at a variety of levels. I like the list in that it brings forth some theories that elicit critical thinking in some and gut reactions in others.
Religion as a practical expression of a group of individuals with similar beliefs can be both powerful and inspiring to those who have faith sufficient to fuel their beliefs. In that religion is a theory for this list, I suppose it makes sense that that which is the focus of religion can be compared with that which is the focus of magic. Regardless of proof, fact, observable context and such, people can and will continue to believe in their own magic, religions, gods and martians… from now until the end of human-endurable time.
I like lists that make me think, even if they have spelling errors and run-on sentences.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:56 am
This list could be great. . .but I couldn’t read it because it was so poorly written and spelled. Please, somebody do some editing before publishing these things. At the very least, the damn planet is not called “Mar’s.” Yeesh.
July 25th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Hey Kreature (#65), there really are REPOTOIDS! My best friend had one come and take away his truck, his stereo and his TV! Beware the Repo-Toid!!!
July 25th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
The definition of magic is a a bad one. Those who practice the Craft, the Wiccan form of magic, are the ones who use candles and daggers. But they never claim to go against the laws of physics. Do not try to pass judgement on something that you know so little about. Do you even know someone who practices magic? True Witches don’t even believe in what you are describing as biblical angels and demons.
July 25th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Poor S_R… I remember him well… errr… well, I remember him, anyway… Ah, who was it that said that one first, anyway?
July 25th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
billyshears :
If it makes you feel any better, I believe in God and also believe in aliens \o/. I know what you mean when you say that people find it very difficult to believe in aliens hehe but I don’t think the whole “rulers are aliens” thing is true…but anyway, can’t prove the opposite, right? hehe
July 25th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Einar, et al: The phrase I think you are all looking for is “The Golden Rule” insofar as doing unto others as you would have others do unto you. At least, that’s how I was brought up…
Gosh, I’m in a good mood today! Thanks, everyone, for the banter and ammunition for my brain canon!
July 25th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
diamond(3)
Tempyra(8)
Kittym(52)
I am with you!!! Although Temp you said it best:longest sentence. I read the first entry and immediately thought RUN-ON SENTENCE!!
July 25th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Double D :
You point out something good for me. It could be the same thing, right? The placebo effect is pretty similar to #4, and I personally believe it works hehe maybe not for everybody, but for some…i think it works the same way as faith, to believe in something and it’ll actually happen. Interest point ^^
July 25th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Tenebrae (61) String Theory is being explored. There is a lot of truth there. The math works.
YogiBarrister (74) I’m very surprised, this coming from you. Were you being facetious?
July 25th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Carol:
It could be, but I would think positive thinking is the act of willing yourself to get better, whereas if you were under the placebo effect you would just feel beter without willing it. If you think you took a medicine and you start feeling better, your positive thoughts didn’t really have anything to do with it, your psyche did. I do see where you’re coming from- I suppose if you feel better you feel more positive in general. I’m suffering from a sinus infection as we speak and feel pretty miserable. Can I get some positive thoughts, listversers?
July 25th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
the topic is facinating.
the selections are adequite.
the writing is appalling.
the comments are, as usual, terrific.
i am also quite surprised that there was no mention (so far) of the most bizarre theory of all – ‘theory of evolution’
July 25th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I know, stevenh – the theory of evolution has so many holes and made-up things in it that are being covered up it’s laughable. I still don’t know why anyone could call themselves an evolutionist.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
My Psychologist is big-time into # 4, Healing Thoughts.
She doesn’t expect it to cure me, just to maybe relieve some of the pain. The joke is, however, that the pain is actually worse, except when I get into a deep trance state, which I can only describe as my being totally absent.
She wants me to stop doing that, and “make friends with the pain”.
Sorry.
Being absent means I don’t hurt. That means I don’t need to be friend with it.
End of story, as far as I’m concerned.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
quote:
(2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof); -unquote
I don’t understand why it’s unlikely. Don’t we run computer simulations on lots of things even now, like weather? If it were in someone’s interest to better understand human history and progress(maybe for business reasons or to predict future events, like in Psychohistory), they could be running simulations of us all the time.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Segue- there are some amazing modalities out there that can relieve pain. Whether or not it’s doing something or feeding into a placebo effect, I can’t tell. I’m sure you’ve been thrown the book, though, and I’m sure most people would be very challenged by your condition.
I’m fairly young and at this point can’t imagine what it will be like to be older, to live daily with pain that I just “normalize”.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Okay, I think I figured it out:
After Terraforming Mars, the aliens known as Reptoids noticed the Nazi Bases on the Moon and went there, forming an alliance with them that ended up conquering the world through Magic; and afterwards created a Holographic Reality machine hidden in Earth’s hollow space, which is being used to enslave human minds and making them believe that 1711 is actually 2008, and where Healing Thoughts and other effects of Chakras actually work; all while having invented Religions to keep us busy from finding out the truth.
I knew it!
July 25th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
@68. Tenebrae
“With or without religion and God, good people would do good things and bad people would do bad things. But for good people to do bad things–that takes religion.”
July 25th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I wish everyone would just shut the fuck up about it and say something nice or don’t say anything at all. Didn’t your mothers teach you anything?!
July 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Segue: I had a psychologist try the “healing thoughts” with me as well, though my “hurt” was mental, not physical. Didn’t work for me, but maybe because I thought it was a farce from the very beginning, and wasn’t in the mindset to try new things. I’m sorry to hear that your pain is so severe. I remember other comments you’ve posted about your condition, and think you’re a very strong person indeed to be able to go on like you do.
Kreacher: That was brilliant!
oliviajade: Yes, she taught me not to swear at strangers.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
****
05. Cedestra
…there are some amazing modalities out there that can relieve pain…
**So far the only things that work at all are opiates, and even with those I need a fistful of support drugs to help them work more efficiently.
…I’m sure you’ve been thrown the book…
**The entire library! Some of the early experiments would be funny if they were on a sit-com. Drug interactions, and side effect’s are fascinating subjects. I’d lay odds that some of my experiences are the reasons behind some of the “possible reactions” on the warning label that comes with Ambien now.
…to live daily with pain that I just “normalize”
**I’ve forgotten what normal *is*. Really.
After what is now 11 years of this, I can no longer remember what it was like to live pain-free.
I know I did it. I swam a mile a day. I danced. I was lithe and agile, could climb rocks and mountains, ski, swim in the ocean…but it’s like a dream.
Someday, someone will figure out a way to fix this problem. Until then I have to do what I have to do…my options are limited.
And LV is here! So thats a bonus.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
WOW nice list…will read all the comments tomorrow
July 25th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Why does someone bother posting a list that they’ve done (seemingly) no research on whatsoever? These are far more enjoyable when you can tell that the author has put some effort and thought into posting.
I nearly fell out of my chair when I read #10, it’s so off base it’s incredible. If the author was referring to the practices of Wiccans, he/she completely missed the idea. Some in my family practice it, and it’s almost offensive to see it described as such.
The only mildly interesting theory put forth on this page is the one concerning “Simulations” (The Matrix). I’ve given it a lot of thought, and all I can come up with is “Wow, that would suck ass.”
July 25th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
@#52. Tenebrae
Confusionism? That’s the only religion for me,Tenebrae! Transcendental confusion every day is my natural state………now where was I? Oh,yeah…Thought-provoking list,Beranabus,thank you. Now I really must be going, I think I live at Shady Pines…..I know I had my label here somewhere!
July 25th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Topic 1 is my favorite subject to think about and discuss with people along with the existence of a god.
I also enjoy the thought of number 2 compared to The Matrix which is a great movie btw
July 25th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
not the best list. it seems to offer [controversial] opinions as more or less established fact (e.g. that it is a “sad” occurrence that people believe in positive thinking). the writer takes on a condescending, quasi-omniscient p.o.v. that really takes away from an otherwise good concept for a list. beranabus, i don’t mean to sling mud at you personally, but imo a little less bias in your next list might be something to consider.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
May not have been the most well written list, but there is no need to be a dick about it. I thought it was definitely interesting.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
#2 is very interesting. Just fifty years ago there were basically no computers at all, how powerful will our computers be in a hundred years from now?
July 25th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
One thing that has made me think a little:
It is pretty bizarre, to me at least, that so many people do believe in religions. When you think about it, it is not possible to prove a lot of the things that the world’s religions claim. Yet, so many people believe in them and their teachings… I find it bizarre that so many would believe in something that cannot be proven…
I don’t know of anything else that cannot be proven that is followed or believed by so many… To me that makes belief in religion bizarre in it’s own unique way…
July 25th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
@101 Stevenh
really? the theory of evolution?
How can you say that is the most bizarre when they have prove that the 99% of mouse genomes have analogues in humans.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I had this book which went at great lengths to describe some of the Nazi wonder weapons under construction during the World War 2. It actually was some very perplex stuff and so I didn’t bother reading everything; but what I understood was that the Nazis were far ahead in technology than the rest of the world. At least in warfare. But I sometimes wonder, so that was it? You are telling me, if only they had finished building those secret weapons we would be under the mercy of the Nazis, in modern 21st century?
It seems pretty extraordinary to me and coupled with #7 I’m beginning to dismiss it all as some more Nazi propaganda.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
You ever watch David Letterman and notice that some of the Top 10 lists are very obviously written as a vehicle for one single joke. Like the Andy Dick one the other night. You have a great idea for what number one would be and so you write nine other entries just to fill in the blanks. That’s the feeling I get with this list. Beranabus wanted to write a list that called religion a bizarre theory just to be insulting and stir the pot, and so he filled out the ten with stupidity like lizard aliens and Nazis on the moon.
I think this is the first list which qualifies in its entirety as a straw man. Beranabus = FAIL
July 25th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Ok, first of all, who in the hell puts an apostrophe in “Mars”? Neat list, but I’ve got problems with a few. The “healing power of thought” is the same as the placebo effect, some people have learned to direct it. Also, on religion, every atheist I’ve ever heard claims to attack “religion” but most frequently is attacking Christianity, and more often than not, is only attacking his/her own understanding of it. What about Buddhism? We claim no god, and all of Buddha’s teachings can easily been seen as truthful and logical simply by observing the world around us.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
This is such a worthless list.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Scot – How can you say this is a worthless list. You’ve got to admit the ridiculous beliefs of some are funny to the rest. Especially No1. Oops.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Sorry. Scott.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
I have been enjoying this site for almost 9 months now but recently I have been disappointed with the direction its going.
I like the idea of everyone being able to send in own lists but they are poorly made. Possibly jfrater could review the lists and switch a few things.
I love the ideas but the writing is amateur, biased or based on the author’s oppinion and I can’t seem to look back and say I learned something today.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Interesting list but I must put my grammar Nazism to good use: in #6, “…sucked into its gravity or caught is solar flares from it…” should be “in solar flares”, and in #1, “…beings greater then anything else in the universe…” should be “than anything”.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
krow- agreed
July 25th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
chershey- how about “Mar’s”?
July 25th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
okay- i do not know what happened but i had sent J this edited version earlier today. you’ll have to ask J about that.
so please stop your bitching and moaning about this list!
this is the best i could make of a list that was quite frankly a bit of mess to begin w/…no offense to the original author but it needed work.
it is still not a perfect list. i did the best i could. i tried to keep the author’s bias intact but frankly i might have infused a bit of my own…especially anything to do w/ religion. (i am the LV resident atheist ya know
)
my sincerest apologies to the author for any liberties he/she thinks i may’ve taken w/ the list.
my sincerest apologies to J. i have no idea what happened.
so if you take issue w/ this edited version…i guess you should direct your criticisms to me.
this list republished @ my time about 11pm Fri nite CST.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Oops – it appears Cyn and I were working at cross purposes – I just published her earlier edited list over the top of her most recent edited list! Nevertheless – at least it is now edited. Sorry for the big delay – all of my stuff just arrived from England and I have had to spend the day moving it all in to storage.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Ok… for all those christian fanatics who don’t even want to hear what other people have to say about how life came about or errors in the Bible and such. YOU are the ignorant ones! I personally am not religious and have my reasons, for example, as Goerge Carlin once said “God is one of the leading causes of death!”
And on a side note, so what if the person making the list makes a few spelling or gramatical errors. Sure I noticed the whole “Mar’s” thing and that really long sentence in #8, but as long as I can read it and understand it it’s alright by me, great list!
July 25th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
t_man- I’m no Christian fanatic. Buddhist, actually. I was making the point that all the atheists I’ve heard rant are always talking about Christianity, and talking about it in a very silly way. The attack the fundies for taking the bible literally, but their attacks against beliefs of Christians are very often based upon a literal interpretation of the bible. And I’m still waiting for a good argument against Buddhist teachings!
July 25th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Putting religion in with all these crackpot ideas is very provocative. I dont know whether to admire the person who made up this list or get mad. Im not that religious but including it in this list shows bias and an agenda.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
One more thing, I don’t have a problem with God, it’s His fan club I can’t stand.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
t_man: There are standards for the use of English and some of us would expect them to be met on a site of this calibre.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
You should have made #1 a dual opposing theory by putting both creationism and evolution in the slot. Then we could have had a more thought out comment section arguing both sides with valid reasoning instead of people complaining about the opinion of the submitter. I, myself, find creationism a little hard to believe because in the past it was shoved down my throat and I was told not to think for myself on whether it was true or not, but to believe because the bible told me so. On the other hand, I respect people who do believe in it and stick to their guns (as long as their counterpoints are valid). What you believe in is good for you, but it might not be good for me.
All spelling errors, personal opinions aside, the list was entertaining.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Very interesting list, but these theories are mostly insane and completely implausible (including # 1). I would like to see a list dedicated to a bunch of theories that just may be possible, and that actually have evidence to support them beyond the imaginings of attention-starved crackpots.
I’m not complaining, though. Neat list.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Tempyra: you misspelled “caliber”.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
given the tone of some comments made since i made my last comment…
you may need to clear cache and refresh screen for the edited version. check spelling of Mars..if its correct as in ..Mars. then its the edited list.
scroll up for more about this in my previous comment.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Jasontimmer: hey man i’ve got nothing against Buddhism, it’s actually the coolest religion in my opinion.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
I find it amusing that people are so deeply offended by religion’s inclusion in this list. How can anyone say believing in higher beings without solid evidence is anything but bizarre? Just because it does good for humanity and has been around for thousands of years doesn’t mean it’s exactly logical or normal. When something is around for so long, of course it’s going to be viewed as ‘normal’, but does that truly make it so?
If you don’t like the list, fine, but why get so riled up? Take a deep breath, and relax. It’s just a list based on opinion, nothing less, nothing more.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
My father didn’t beat me you idiot, how did mentioning the crusades and persecution and segregation make it seem like it was emotionally laced?
July 25th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
t_man: Tempyra spelt “calibre” correctly. It’s called “English is an international language with accepted variant usages”.
In general, I’m prepared to say that 9 out of 10 of these are more or less complete crap, and the 10th (#1) doesn’t belong here.
Two at least – hollow earth and counter-earth – are disposed of by elementary physics. Most of the rest cite no evidence whatsoever, except that someone has claimed it. I claim that I have been kidnapped by Kim Jong-il to teach his hand-picked successor to speak English.
I verge towards being a grammar and expression stickler. If this is the edited version, then I hate to think what the original version looked like. “Mar’s” just should not happen on a reputable website. (Presuming we are one.) All future contributors, please check out http://listverse.com/literature/top-10-tips-for-great-writing/ before you submit.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Well, I enjoyed the list!!! I don’t get how number one slanders religion at all though. In fact the very last sentence compliments religion. People need to get off of their high horses and realize that ideas other than their own exist in the world. The list does not slander religion, but I won’t hesitate to. If religion would of had its way with all of history, then we would still live in a world where the Earth is flat and the Sun revolves around the world.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
HINT! scroll up and read preceding comments. if you are seeing ‘Mar’s’ AND not ‘Mars’…you need to clear cache and/or refresh to see the edited version.
granted my edited version is only edited in general terms. otherwise i’d had to have rewritten the list. as i’ve said before…it is not a perfect list or perfect edit.
is no one reading preceding comments before mounting their pulpits to pontificate?
July 25th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
To err is human
July 25th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
I didn’t err
July 25th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Thanks astraya
July 25th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Wasn’t talking about you Tempyra…
July 25th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
I read these lists every day, and I really enjoy them though I hardly ever comment. I kind of get frustrated though when all I seem to see on here is people bashing religion, mainly Christianity. I rarely see people preaching their religions, but I always seem to find people preaching that all or some religions are just myths. All I ever see on here is that people who are religious in their own personal faith are brainwashed into believing it’s true.
It’s annoying reading post after post after post that there is no “God”, and everyone who believes otherwise is stupid. At least that is the way it seems to me.
I really do enjoy this site, I love learning new interesting things every day, I just get sick of seeing the religion (Christianity) bashing. I’m proud of being a Christian, but I’m not going to shove it down your throat either.
Not everyone is an Atheist…
Sorry, I just had to vent. Feel free to bash me, I’m sure some of you will…
July 25th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Jenna_Bug: You must have missed the days of S_R
July 25th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Jenna_Bug: I’m not going to bash you but i will suggest listening to George Carlin’s bit on religion. In case you don’t know he was raised Roman Catholic until he “reached the age of reason” and actually has a very good argument against religion. Funny as hell too.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
That was beautiful what you did with number 1.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Well I have 2 sides to what I believe. I have my faith. I pray every night, I believe in Heaven etc. I haven’t been to church in I couldn’t tell you how long, and I don’t read the Bible. I also believe in the scientific theory of things, to an extent. There isn’t always just one side to everything.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
The whole Religion section is deliberatley bashing Religion indirectly by saying what skeptics say…..not clever at all…..stop beating around the bush and say what u feel, keep it 100
July 25th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
I am saying what I feel. obviously. All I am stating is that in my personal opinion it’s annoying seeing the same argument in every list.
Might seem a little crazy to some, but after becoming a mother and going through each stage of pregnancy and childbirth etc, I can’t imagine there not being a higher power responsible for it all. Just my opinion, everyone else preaches theirs….
July 26th, 2008 at 12:09 am
I was raised devoutly religious, but I do not believe everything I was taught. I have to believe there is a higher power, but I do not take the Bible literally. I’m sure my grandfather who was a preacher is rolling in his grave at that statement. lol Anyway, aren’t most theories objective? I mean I want to believe and maybe that contributes to my beliefs, that there is more to life than just this. I love to learn about all religions, and I believe some things can be explained scientifically. I don’t think it’s wrong to question any religion, but I think it’s part of most people’s lives in some way and that is not very bizarre. It’s the basic human condition to want to believe that there is something better, that they can see lost family members again, and I hope it to be true. Oh, and I believe in aliens, too. I also believe in reincarnation and many other things, but I won’t go into the details. I just feel it’s important to believe in something, even if it’s just to be a better person.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:38 am
At the end of the day it is not the job of skeptics to disprove a theory, it is the job of those who believe it to prove it. You cannot prove a negative.
So until someone offers me proof of God, a hollow Earth, reptiles ruling us or Nazis on the moon then I will disregard them as fiction.
July 26th, 2008 at 1:53 am
Uberplum – You’re absolutely right, misspelling 1 word (Confucianism) invalidates every point I could have possibly made. *rolleye*
July 26th, 2008 at 2:09 am
I wasn’t going to touch this, but..
“The theory is by using certain objects such as a candle, a dagger and a wide variety of things you can bend the universe to your will completely ignoring the laws of physics and the practical laws of the universe.”
Actually, those who claim to practice magic(k) don’t believe that using certain objects you can bend the universe to your will. Perhaps you could (read should) have read some material from those who actually proclaim to practice and or, at least, spoken to someone who did.
The objects are intended to be a focal point for thought and energy. It’s more similar to ‘faith healing’ than something outrageous as listed above. It’s a firm belief that if you focus your will and believe in something strong enough, you can affect change in your enviroment. That is the concept of magic – “Mind over matter”, if you will.
“Many people claim that they can use such powers as summoning demons, angels or other things and the OOBE or out of body experience under laboratory conditions but no one has been able to prove it so far. There are incidents that do defy logical explanations, such as some people’s claims of using the Ouija board, though since none of these events can be proven it is very weak evidence.”
No reputable practitioner of magic claims to summon demons or angels. Though it does occur that people will call upon or speak to angels, etc.. as one would speak to a saint or divine being. They’re frequently considered to be guardians. As crackpot as it sounds, that’s the general use of angels. Not to summon them to do your bidding. You’ve watched too many movies.
Out of Body Experiences are a completely seperate subject – neither proven, nor disproven in laboratory settings. It’s not magic. It’s merely the idea that the soul can leave a human body. One doesn’t even have to believe in any form of magic to have experienced an OOBE and it crosses dozens of religious bounderies. It’s even been reported by atheists. Some say it’s just a psychological condition that occurs during sleep. It all depends on the research. It’s actually really interesting – it’s just not considered under the heading of “magic(k)”.
And the Ouija board is a game that was produced by Milton Bradley. Even when a similar device is used, it’s considered to be a divinatory tool (reading the subconcious) by those educated in such things. It’s not some ooky spooky scary (unless you’re a 12 year old girl at a slumber party) thing, it’s a reflection of the user’s subconcious.
You smashed a whole mess of things together that are all different and seperate. If you wanted to list them, they belonged in their own categories.
July 26th, 2008 at 2:17 am
And I hate that I can’t edit. Separate* – I have no idea why I did that.
July 26th, 2008 at 2:19 am
#34 Beranabus – “… Nor was it meant to be a slam against any religion, I had originally had something else for the first place and religion as a bonus, J obviously figured it would be better this way.”
If that’s so, what did you originally have as #1?
July 26th, 2008 at 2:36 am
tsk,tsk Confrimation Bias
July 26th, 2008 at 2:50 am
Interesting List. But the religion one will upset many readers (including me) and bring a lot of comments. Look at that, 161 comments so far.
No. 2, holographic reality made me really exited (dont mind the grammatical mistakes).
And why dont commentors post links in their comments. You know, it can save the readers a trip to the google. I would really like a link to that flat earth society. Same goes for the post. No links to related articles or websites.
And why do you guys take spelling mistakes so seriously? You aren’t English teachers and its not like we’re giving a test. Just concentrate on the material and ignore the grammar. Spelling every word wrongly would surely be annoying, but one wrong word in ten sentences is alright.
It seems that I have criticized a lot. Didn’t mean to make anyone angry though. Peace.
Any way, loved the list (except for the #1). Keep it up.
July 26th, 2008 at 3:02 am
JK – The list has been edited. It was nearly unreadable, due to the poor grammar, when it was first published.
July 26th, 2008 at 3:15 am
At the end of the day it is not the job of skeptics to disprove a theory, it is the job of those who believe it to prove it.
Nimnimnumnim – Says who? The onus is generally on the person making the claim (whether the “believer” or the “non-believer”) to prove his case.
You cannot prove a negative.
I’m not sure you will find many philosophers/logicians agreeing with this often-quoted statement. This falsehood almost always arises due, for example, to the universe of possibilities being too vast to fully investigate (eg. religious or supernatural debates).
July 26th, 2008 at 3:45 am
kiwiboi: You broke the sidebar with your italicization
July 26th, 2008 at 6:31 am
LOL
what a great list! I didn’t knew about most of them.
Nº9 V is here…
Nº8 remembers me that “why Dark ages weren’t dark” controvertial list. That enforce my theories that some people believe that during Dark Ages NOTHING good had happened.
Nº7 seems a 50′ serial B film
Nº6 I did know about Hollow Earth. It’s most funny one. For them Gauss did never existed.
I didn’t know that storie about the castle. ¿Has anybody read “the House of the Borderland” by William H. Hodgson?
Again, thank you. Great list.
July 26th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Tenebrae @ 57
I’m afraid you’re incorrect. Matter and energy can be both created and destroyed according to Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity, during the processes of nuclear fission, fusion and M-AM annihilation.
And any Muslims, Christians, etc angry at atheists for attacking their religion: your own God stipulates that you don’t have the right to judge anyone. If He really exists, he’ll deal with the defilers themselves, not you.
July 26th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Crumpet!
You’re taking a bad experience propegated by mislead thoughts by misguided actors and generalizing that as the complete truth.
Because WWII happened doesn’t mean that Germany should not exist!
To say that a war was fought under the premise of “Holy”, doesn’t make religion incorrect, it makes those who propegated it incorrect.
The reason I say it’s emotionally based is because you’re attaching a negative experience to what you THINK religion is about.
Do some research.
July 26th, 2008 at 8:28 am
I said it once already, so here it goes again:
IT’S NOT REPOTOIDS, IT’S REPTOIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IN THE FRICKIN TITLE! HUGE LETTERS! NO O! REPTOIDS!
July 26th, 2008 at 8:29 am
what if it’s all true and we are magical reptoids in the year 1711. we live on a hallow earth and are
decendants of nazis who still live on the dark side of the moon. Mean while nazis are currently terra
forming mars, while healing themselves through thought and chakras from the brutal temps on the moon. Oh and
it’s all actually a holographic reality
July 26th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Cubone I know Religion works well on paper if you take a look at the Bible people use it as a manual to live by and to enrich their lives but there is always some corrupt person in the world that will use it as a tool to benefit them or an unintelligent bunch that will take it out of context or take it literally, or twist it and warp it and pervert it to justify their prejudices or hatred and greed, you could compare it to Animal Farm, I know its an allegorical novel satirizing Socialism, but it works the same way. Not saying it is ENTIRELY bad but I just think Jules is living in a fantasy world if she believes its done more better for the world than harm.
July 26th, 2008 at 9:54 am
I don´t think it is a bizarre idea that George W. Bush is an alien reptoid. I mean, just look at the fellow. You wouldn´t say he looks fully human, would you?
July 26th, 2008 at 9:56 am
@ KREACHURE
DO YOU SEE HOW FUCKING ANNOYING THIS IS? CHRIST DUDE JUST MAKE A COMMENT W/OUT ALL THE FUCKING SHOUTING!
the typo has been corrected. GOD I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY NOW!
geesh…now bugger off and go ruin someone else’s weekend.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:04 am
http://listverse.com/comment-faq/
J – please put a button/link to this in the navbar.
really wish all of you would take just a moment of your time to please read the FAQ. and if you are not already aware..it is extremely rude to use all caps online. it is considered shouting.
as for my previous comment..
caps done for effect.
also…
asking nicely…no matter how many times you think you’ve repeated yourself…is the fastest way to get something done.
this list was a real mess to edit. there are coding issues inherent in any list that it is sometimes difficult to seperate text from code…especially in titles…so i focus on main body of text. so excuse my ass for missing it. like to see you dig through mass of coding to find lines of actual text…
*grumble grumble*
July 26th, 2008 at 10:12 am
miller: I just have to congratulate you on your sense of humor. Seeing your name as it appears in email each time “Author: miller”, just makes me smile.
Subtle, yes, but effective.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Crumpet… I am not living in a fantasy world. I know that mankind has always persecuted and harmed each other, sometimes in horrific ways. These horrors would exist with or without religion. I do believe things would be much worse without a belief in God, without the belief that one day man would be held accountable for his actions. Bad men and women will use any vehicle they can to gain power and oppress the weak. By your logic because a nation goes to war for money, then all money is bad and should be done away with.
Do you really think that those who have done wrong in the name of religion would not have done those things if religion did not exist?
July 26th, 2008 at 10:45 am
“Do you really think that those who have done wrong in the name of religion would not have done those things if religion did not exist?” Well yeah because then they wouldn’t have had a reason to do it
I’m not saying Religion should be done away with, humanity in general doesn’t deserve it, isn’t ready for it and probably never will be, as they are just human.
And yes, money is bad.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Cyn: I intentionally shouted because I had already mentioned the blatant typo a long time ago, and it hadn’t been fixed.
And it worked, since it got your attention.
But if you’d rather have me post a bunch of inane comments with the same complaint to see if one of those catches your eye, then suit yourself… I’m sure you’d complain about those too.
As for ruining someone’s weekend with a single comment in caps, I would think that that someone is not ready for the Internets…
July 26th, 2008 at 11:08 am
I like the Holographic-reality, when I was a young kid and I was playing with my Barbie I’d alway wonder whether I was a doll being played with and that person was also a doll being played with… lol yeah I was always a deep thinker.
July 26th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Tenebrae @160
Please don’t be cross! I was’nt criticising your spelling, I was enjoying the mental images it conjured up! Do you remember “The Golden Girls” on TV? The eldest one was always being threatened by her daughter and the others with removal to the “Shady Pines” rest home when her behaviour became baffling. My daughters do the same to me in a joking fashion (I think)!
We all thought it hilarious that there is now a belief system for the bewildered…ie me.
Sadly, Estelle Getty, the mother-figure of whom I speak, died earlier this week.
Responding to your lucid previous remarks, I agree with you that religion should not be included on a list of this nature as its ubiquity precludes its inclusion on a list of the bizarre. Pax!
July 26th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Honestly guys, these lists are amazing. Lay off with the grammer comments. If you want to correct people for a living, then work as an editor. And if JFrater cared more about grammer, than he does about entertaining and inlightening people, then he would hire an editor. GIVE IT UP!
July 26th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
out of body experiences can’t be proven or disproved, even with science….so number 10 failed by mentioning it.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Actually, the OOBE experience has been measured and quantified; even James Randi, the world famous skeptic and hoax debunker agreed that OOBE was the only phenomenon that had any verifiable proof to it. His study/test of the subjects showed that the subjects had awareness of aspects of the room and the actions of the people in it while they were asleep and in OOBE in another room.
When a man who has dedicated his life to debunking hoaxes and superstitions says that his tests have shown there is validity to the claim, that’s generally enough creedence needed.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
3 and 1 are plain offensive!
3: They exist, I know it!
1: Roman Catholicism has been proven, live with it!
July 26th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
um…proven?
July 26th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
“um…proven?”
My thoughts exactly.
Also
“Consider this, if matter cannot be created nor destroyed then how did it get here in the first place? How did that infinately dense matter before the big bang get there if it cannot be created?”
The laws of the universe need not apply when the universe is not here yet.
July 26th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
So if you don’t know somthing your first instinct is a magic man did it?
July 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
****
189. Mikey
“Consider this, if matter cannot be created nor destroyed then how did it get here in the first place? How did that infinately dense matter before the big bang get there if it cannot be created?”
****
This *is* a joke question, right? I’d be *infinitely* curious to know.
July 26th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
@ Kreachure -
As for ruining someone’s weekend with a single comment in caps, I would think that that someone is not ready for the Internets…
given your comment history on this site, i’d say you’re real close to pissing me off. cool it. it was not a single comment. it was this list. it was you and your history of comments. and i’ve been online long enough to know an asshat when i read one.
July 26th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
I have a concern regarding the calling of #2 “holographic-reality”. Quantum physics seems to suggest that the way we/our brains perceive things, has similarities with the manner in which holograms work/function. “Virtual” or “matrix-like” might be better…?
July 26th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I’m on the castle owners’ side, I wouldn’t let a bunch of nutjobs knock my castle down to prove that the earth is hollow.
July 26th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
good list. i personally dont have a religion at all
July 26th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
so i just got back from mexico yesterday and i am getting caught up. some thoughts.
adding religion definately exposed the author’s bias and was a blatant attempt to stir the pot.
so, as a believer in Christ and the Bible, if i follow the logic of this list (and alot of the comments) then i am insane, foolish, lacking reason and should possibly be commited?
being that i went to mexico to build a house for a needy family, which myself and 10 teenagers did successfully in 3 days, because of what Christ has done for me, how does that fit into the category of belief that says religion doesn’t do anyone any good?
July 26th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
i love how nobody can say any of them aren’t true just as much as nobody can say any of them are true.
If anyone were to find out the truth about a well known mystery, e.g the lockness monster, i would hope thye would ever tell anyone.
you’ve got to have a bit a mystery in somethings and everyone should have something to believe in.
what would we have to talk about if we knew everything?
July 26th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
****
196. DiscHuker
…i went to mexico to build a house for a needy family, which myself and 10 teenagers did successfully in 3 days, because of what Christ has done for me…
****
Disc, I have a very simple faith, which states that none of us leaves this earth the same way we found it. We leave it better, or we leave it worse. The choice is ours.
You have made your choice, and it’s a good one. Why we make our choice is going to be different depending on a number of factors, your belief in Christ is as wonderful and as valid as any.
Thank you, on behalf of the family in Mexico.
July 26th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Okay, please. I have a rule for myself that I need to read all the comments before posting a reply. Often times in reading the excellent opinions and points expressed here I find myself shifting stances. This time I made it about half way through.
First and foremost, the list is poorly written and that’s kind of sad. If you’re going to go through the bother of putting together a list, do the extra bit and make the list stand out more than the writing style.
My real comment, though, is for the religious people.
Get over yourselves.
I fully agree that it should have said ‘god(s)’ instead of religion, but we get the point anyway. You can’t honestly argue semantics on a list written like this one is. That’s just trying to pin roses to a pig.
In a nut shell, believing in a god or gods means believing in a great big mind/man/energy that lives in the sky, or some other ethereal type location, has unlimited power and knowledge and still gives a damn about what one member of a population of billions of one single creation out of billions does and wants. Please. Do we need to get into the talking snakes, the burning bushes, the other religious absurdities I’ve managed to avoid knowing thus far? I don’t think so.
Before anyone tweaks, I’m pagan. I practice a form of magic. It has nothing at all to do with his blurb but I am 100% entirely aware that it sounds bat-shit insane to other people.
Just because there are tons of people doing the same thing, doesn’t make it any less weird. Look at 80s hair.
Believing in something doesn’t mean freaking out when anyone disparages it, it means believing in it despite it.
Pull the stick out, do what Jesus would have wanted and stop being holier-than-thou douches and be decent for a change.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Religion shouldn’t be on this list, and I’m not saying that because I’m religious…only because bazaar is a term used for things that are strange, or unorthodox. Religion is common and widely accepted, as you stated.
I’m pretty sure you put that on the list just to throw your own opinion out there.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
sarahenity (163) That was my question, too. I’m surprised it wasn’t visited before.
JK (165) I am an English teacher. Math and Science, too.
Dischusker (196) What can I do to help? I’m not Christian, a lot of my friends are, but this sounds like a program I’d like to get involved with.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
@THEKID
I’m pretty sure ‘bazaar’ is a term used to describe a marketplace in the middle east.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
DiscHuker:
“adding religion definately exposed the author’s bias and was a blatant attempt to stir the pot.”
Did you see Beranabus’ (the contributor) comment (34)?
Who do you think was really stirring the pot? Hehe
July 27th, 2008 at 12:02 am
Good list. I might point out to though that religion and god aren’t the same thing. There are many scientists whom believe in a single God but subscribe to no religion. Such people see that science is the only reasonable alley to find God – especially if its truth you want as it’s all about the scientific method. I used to be a Christian only a few weeks ago but now after dropping ‘the bible is fact’ I see that the whole concept of religion will not help you find god. But only encase in a world where what you believe ‘is’ reality.
It doesn’t promote truth seeking as this IS science.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:59 am
173, Miller : Hey, Nice Thought!
175, ladypit : Well, I think Bush looks more like a monkey than a reptoid! Don’t you ? No offence. Peace.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:14 am
“This is not meant as a criticism of believers, but as a discussion of the theories and facts.”
That’s the hardest thing to swallow on the entire list.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:21 am
“Do unto others as you would have done unto you” is called the golden rule. It doesnt work. It sounds good when you think about it and in people in small social groups it’s fine. But apply it to peoples out side that circle and it doesnt work let alone people from completely different cultures.
Consider perhaps “do unto others as ‘they’ would like done unto them.” this rule is better.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:26 am
@207 sometimes it doesn’t matter if you have good intentions someone is going to take advantage, I’m not trying to be depressing, It’s a fact of life.
I think it should be ‘do unto others as they have done unto you’
July 27th, 2008 at 3:26 am
204,Good Wolf
Dear me, what world are you living in? I am European, that´s maybe why I am always surprised how the Americans still believe “the Bible is fact”, and when you, quite sensibly, realize its not always fact (of course a lot of the time it is) then you wash it down the toilet. I mean, there has been Bible science for almost three hundert years now, explaining at great length how the Bible (which is actually a LIBRARY, not a book) contains poetry, mythology, chronicles, books of teaching, personal letters… Of course, if you take everything for fact, you end up with talking serpents and nine hundred year old people and such. Now be a Good Wolf and think twice before you drop youer Bible in the dustbin
July 27th, 2008 at 3:30 am
205, JK: Hah! That´s the way they fool you! That innocent monkey look, or the British Royals looking like horses (which are good and kindly animals). BEHIND THAT MASK is the reptoid!
July 27th, 2008 at 3:32 am
I understand where you are coming from and appreciate the thought BUT I think the bible distorts the image of the personality of God. look at this: http://pics.bestpicever.com/pics/pic_12108159335899.jpg
the jewish aka old testament god is vengeful and angry and selfish etc. I dont much care for jesus’ teaching ether
July 27th, 2008 at 3:39 am
@ Ladypit
Words of jesus:
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division
-Luke 12:51-53
The Bible strikes me as a book of myth. not a historic document
July 27th, 2008 at 3:41 am
@211 Good Wolf
Since all we can know about the personality of God are images we must say as Master Eckhart did: “Whatever you think about God says much more about you than about him.” and I wonder if you have actually read the Old Teastament? Of course there are most unpleasant images, but there are also very kind ones. And get away from the: “this is how God is”. God is a bit above our imagination, and also above that of the Biblical writers. and if YOU know what the personality of God is like you´d be an admirable being indedd
July 27th, 2008 at 3:43 am
The holographic-reality certainly isn’t true. Who the demented dude made up that theory anyway? Interesting list though.
BTW, what? No curses? (’pangkukulam’ in Filipino)
July 27th, 2008 at 3:48 am
@212
Well, you will experience division once you try not to be dishonest, not to be greedy, not to slander others and what not. We live in a world where money is king, where the weak are trodden on, where the religion is the cult of greed, where people profit from war and murder, and if you don´t want to be part of it there is division indeed. Jesus said divison, not bickering.
Of course the Bible is a book/library that contains mythology, but the greatest sceptic wouldnt say that Israel, Jerusalem, Egypt and all the Chronicles arte mythology, would they?
But it´s true: “Nobody is so unwilling to believe as one who hast believed too much.” I know what I´m talking about, having a background very similar to yours.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:49 am
@ ladyPit. Point taken But I broke away from the christian faith because i didnt like being told what to believe and being surrounded by people who took it as fact without think. Christianity doesn’t promote freethought. Then I found out that there is no historic record of jesus. nothing. no one at church told me that.
July 27th, 2008 at 6:12 am
vera lynn: the ministry is called casas por cristo. it is an amazing opportunity to be “the hands and feet of Christ” to those in need.
http://www.casasporcristo.org
July 27th, 2008 at 6:42 am
it’s incredible!
how many fanatism is showing there.
Are you discrediting other theories on this list? I think most of this listed theories have most proves in favor than the existance of God, and I believe in none of them.
Why can I say what I think about the others and not about number 1? just because it was imposed for centuries and some people doesn’t want to assume it. Wika magic is more much ancient than christian or jew God.
And I don’t mind in showing my bias cause I have the freedom to do it, and the moral duty to deffend atheist from the mad comments I have read here.
So stop comments like: “your bias is showing”
July 27th, 2008 at 6:48 am
The simple fact of the matter is that to non-believers, those who do believe sound utterly bizarre. I’m astounded that no one can even acknowledge that.
July 27th, 2008 at 10:47 am
number 1 is so bizarre in the fact that so many people believe it.
July 27th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Yes, religion, a hopeless thing…
…definitely nr 1.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:18 am
This is the worst ‘most-interesting’ list I have seen on this site. Usually I love lists like this one, but this was plain lousy.Why is it that when a site becomes more and more popular its quality becomes utter crap.
Also, at #6, it talks about a ‘castle in Europe’. Is it soo hard to give us the name of the castle. Lists like these should come with links supporting its tales. Anyone can make up this kind of BS.
I think the author of the list told us exactly why this list sucks at comment #34
[quote]
“Actually this was not meant to be a “shit-stirrer”. Nor was it meant to be a slam against any religion, I had originally had something else for the first place and religion as a bonus, J obviously figured it would be better this way”
[/quote]
Of course JF figured it would be better this way, shitty ‘controversial’ stuff like this brings in more hits, and then gets posted on digg,reddit,SU,fark,fart,etc
July 27th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
People still believe in god? There some very odd people on this planet.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
are you retarded?
July 27th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Lousy: I did not change the number 1 item for that reason, in fact, I was not going to include it at all to begin with – as I thought we should have a break from religious topics. I only made it number 1 when I read the original number 1 which I thought was so unsuitable to the rest of the list (it was Nuclear Monsters). So you can put away the tinfoil hat
July 27th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
61. Tenebrae: Actually string theory will be soon proved or dismissed, among many other bizarre theories and misteries in the LHC. Stay tunned to CERN. In few days we’ll start to see what’s beyond Planck!!
Whatever the results are, putting string theory in there could have made the list obsolete in really few time
July 27th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
lol thanks jamie, i was wondering what number one originally was.
July 27th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
I reckon the source of the reptoids and myths to the same caliber are fiction. I reckon someone told a make-believe story to a child or possibly even wrote a novel or something that has now become so far removed from its origins that no one knows what they are.
July 28th, 2008 at 12:37 am
Great list Beranabus- especially #5, it reminds me of the movie “Dune” with how they terraform each suitable planet for humans.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:07 am
you guys are all missing the point, these things are all truly bizarre, but less so determined by the amount of people who accept them, for instance if i was to create a new religion today and told you this story of some guy who did all this stuff and if you didnt believe it then you went to my religions version of hell, they would lock me up, i mean who believes in scientology for example, how strange is that? not much stranger than the storeis from accpeted religions, it’s just that the sceptical period has had more time to pass and those that stayed true to the teachings have carried and in my opinion forced it upon their own family etc, i know people who believe what they believe because thats what their family believes, thats no basis for a free thinking mind, religio truly is opiate of the masses.
I don’t scorn or ridicule anyone for their beliefs but there is nobody more arrogant and uninlightened than someone who thinks they have it right and everyone is else wrong, again in my opinion i think that people are so scared of dying that they will take any glimmer of hope given, i am content that when i die, my existance will be over, you will never be more content than when you come to this realisation, i imagine its the same when you find religion, opperative word being FIND, not forced by mum or dad or pushy door to door religion sellers.
Only you can decide what you think is correct and that is the end of it, nobody is right.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:42 am
I have a theory that if something is called “theory”, and not called a “fact”, then it is likely to not be a fact, but that’s just my theory.
(My attempt at being philosophical)
July 28th, 2008 at 5:16 am
Krysten: matter sure as hell can be created and destroyed.
energy just transfers from one thing to another.
If you can bend the laws of physics sure. However matter cannot be created or destroyed. It can be changed and reformed yes. Like changed into energy (seemingly destroying it) or reassembled such as taking many atoms and and putting them together to make something larger and more complex (seemingly creating). However it’s one of the most basic laws of physics, matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:10 am
religion should not be on this list as a bizarre theory as it is not a theory at is more of a bizarre practice that many different cultures have and many of them are bazarre but i do not see at all how u could say it is a theory
good list tho but i think that there is more theorys out there better than religion……
but whatever
ohh stop getting so mad at each other because peoples views are different yall take this way way too serious an clearly this site is just for fun and to have good discusions about…
but whatever
July 28th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Johnny T & Krysten:
I think you’re teling the same, but forgetting that energy and mass are the same think. Some people missundertand the E=mc^2 reduced formula. It’s not a “matter” but “unit” conversion. It’s like saying: 1J = 0.2390cal, so for a resting body 1J=1kg*c^2.
You can say that energy is destroyed and mass created or viceversa. But from a physical point of view mass is just the kinetic energy of a body traveling in time direccion.
Another thing is what’s called the Vacuum Energy. Those fluctiacions does exist, they’re proved through Cassimir effect. But again, that’s “Vacuum Energy” so there is something to be “transformed” into mass.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:15 am
and another theres way to many no it all dorks on here talkin about the spelling and thinking that there funny do us a favor and stop bitching
July 28th, 2008 at 7:11 am
The shift in languages over the period of the Middle Ages is too complex and too widespread to have been part of any conspiracy that didn’t involve every single person (and thus would hardly be a conspiracy). Why do people who critique this conspiracy theory miss this obvious rebuttal?
July 28th, 2008 at 8:06 am
I definately believe that having a positive attitude will help you even in terminal cases, but it’s not the “healing power of thought.” It’s pretty simple. If you are more optimistic, you are more likely to exercise, eat, take meds, and generally follow your doctor’s advice. If you are depressed you are more likely to remain inactive, not get good nutrion, and generally atrouphy away.
July 28th, 2008 at 8:55 am
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237. AmazingThor
I definately believe that having a positive attitude will help you…but it’s not the “healing power of thought.” If you are more optimistic, you are more likely to exercise, eat, take meds, and generally follow your doctor’s advice.
****
Bingo!
My condition isn’t terminal, the pain is just equal to a terminal illness (at least, according to my doctors it is. I’m not up to trying out that theory). Which is why I find that going to that “being absent” place is good. Other than that, I have a bizarrely optimistic outlook, and do all the things my army of doctors tell me to. After 11 yrs. my notes still refer to me as “pleasant” and
“cooperative”, so, AmazingThor, I think you’ve hit the nail right on the head with your amazing lightning bolt.
July 28th, 2008 at 9:52 am
This entire list is condescending and reeks of arrogance. Saying it’s not poking fun at it doesn’t make it okay to call the theories insane and pity the people who believe in them. I don’t strongly believe anything on the list, but if you’re gonna do a list like this, at least have a shred of respect for the subjects you’re covering.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Sorry, but this list is poorly researched and poorly written, and I am shocked to see it on Listverse. This site has had problems of this nature before, but never like this. You will lose a great deal of intelligent readers if things continue in this manner.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Jfrater (225) Nuclear monsters. Do you mean like the animals that were deformed as a result of Chernobyl? That’s some creepy stuff there. Horses with 8 legs and pigs with no eyes.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:44 am
JB (226) I simply CANNOT wait until they fire up the LHC. I read everything I can find about it. Truly an amazing, complex, sophisticated feat of engineering.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Hahaha. Good one. Religion is indeed very bizarre.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
This is the first list I read here that seems to be created by someone who is so badly informed that I can’t believe it.
It’s very easy to make lists, of course. The thing I iked about this site so far is that people seem to care about quality. This, however, is pathetic.
I don’t want to spend much time on this, but just to give some idea:
- The existence of chakras have been proven at the university of Vienna in the ’90’s. Not to mention of course the sacred texts form all over the world that mention them in one form or another, plus the daily experience of, shall we say, 25 milion people ?
- every time serious research was done into the power of prayer, the result was: yes, it has an effect. There were even several studies done to compare directed detailed thoughts/prayers, and directionless prayer/attention. The result being that the latter is more effective.
- as to religion: see my postst on the lists about saints. The person posting here obviously has no clue whatsoever. That’s fine in itself, but why pretend then ?
- Positive thingking has been proven effective.
- not mentioned but implied to be ineffective: meditation. It has been shown to change the GSR, galvanic skin resistance, an important indicator of heath. As well as slowing breath and heartbeat, harmonising the left and right hemisphere of the brain, reducing the need for sleep, enhancing intuition (shown to be the main factor in outstanding business success). To name a few.
The cream on the cake is that old friend of the dying race of materialsts: the placebo effect. No it’s not energy healing, it’s the placebo effect. No it’s not positive thingking, it’s the placebo effect. No it’s not love, it’s the placebo effect. AS IF ANY MATERIALIST HAS EVER COME UP WITH ANYHTING REMOTELY RESEMBLING AN EXPLAINING FOR THIS PHENOMENON.
As I wrote in an article some years ago: It’s pathetic, seeing the amount of empirical and scientific evidence suggesting a subtle reality underlying and in fact containing the blueprint of what happens on the physical level, but for quite a few intelligent and nice people, yoga, astrology, healing, ESP, spiritism, vegetarism, ecology ad hugging trees is all bullshit for and from losers that can’t make it without superstition to cling to.
Thank God this is a dying race. When I started teaching yoga 20 years back almost nobody could feel energy. These days most young people can. The paradigm is shifting and 3dimensional thinkers are on their way out.
Nothing personal, listmaker, but you clearly don’t have any experience with realites more subtle than matter. Too bad that you draw the conclusion that therefore they don’t exist.
Someday you’ll have a clue, I’m sure.
Just to be clear: I don’t believe in reptilians, I consider spiritism a waste of time, magic does exist but not in the form here described. OK, yes I’m a vegatarian (not only because there is a scientificaly proven direct link between eating meat and colon cancer).
July 28th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Peter – first line of your second paragraph:I don’t want to spend much time on this, but just to give some idea; you kinda contradicted your self after the 5th paragraph.
vegatarian vs. colon cancer, yoga teacher for 20 years and you speak as though you live the Matrix every day: if you are going to discuss your beleifs, do it a positive manner, not in an abuse manner towards the list maker.
July 28th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Peter: Saying vegetarianism and ecology have anything to do with superstition is really quite a bizarre theory.
July 28th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
CSRN
I have no idea what you mean by living the matrix every day.
You are right that I got carried away and forgot my intetntion to be brief. Let me not make the same mistake twice (as long).
About my ‘beliefs’: It wonlt sound humble, but truely, as far as I can see I am the one here that talks from a combination of personal expererience, knowledge, scientific evidence, emperical evidence and last but not least common sense. Isn’t the maker of this list the one putting forth believes, being sceptical and outright degrading without being informed ? And in a rather disrespectful manner at that, as has been oberved by various readers.
Both a person and as someone who put energy into making somehting for others to enjoy, I respect and appreciate the creator of this list. When it comes to taking his subjects and readers seriously, I’m afraid I can’t.
July 28th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Tempyra:
Peter: Saying vegetarianism and ecology have anything to do with superstition is really quite a bizarre theory.
Exactly, that’s my point.
July 28th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Peter – where to start, hmmmmm, nah stuff it! firstly, the list maker has used the resources supplied to them that has been published in one way or another (hard copy or internet) so to say that Beranabus has twisted the information to make it play out in a negative manner is utter crap, and more so the person who edited the list was from admin.
Secondly, the part about taking subjects and readers seriously, this list is made up of theories and the facts surrounding them, “theory” in the context that it has been used, has been used to describe some “mystical” anomalies, therefore it has been used loosley in trying to describe the content in the list and the reasons behind why some people believe these “theories” through the so called published facts( i think thats what i was trying to say, i had a brain fart)
July 28th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Religion is definitely bizarre in the sense that it’s not based at all on rationale.
July 28th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Peter: I must have mis-read this part:
“It’s pathetic, seeing the amount of empirical and scientific evidence suggesting a subtle reality underlying and in fact containing the blueprint of what happens on the physical level, but for quite a few intelligent and nice people, yoga, astrology, healing, ESP, spiritism, vegetarism, ecology ad hugging trees is all bullshit for and from losers that can’t make it without superstition to cling to.”
…oops
July 28th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Humans are capable of irrational thought. That one of many things that separate us from lower forms of life.
I am intersted in #7 about the Nazis I seem to remember hearing about it years ago. If any one knows more about please let me know.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
The Nazis were fascinated by all manner of things including making an expedition to find the way into the hollow earth, searching for atlantes, arc of the covenant and holy grail. They were even trying to make UFO or flying-saucers of which there is a doco on you tube showing evidence for unearthly research.
It’s the crazy pursuits the Nazis had that makes Wolfenstein games appeal to me.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Xj_noNvgZw
July 28th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
LHC Please all read about this. It is amazing. I keep bringing it up again and again. This may be the biggest discovery/inventin/cosmic implementation of all time. To have information for the sake of “knowing” is beautiful. Everyone here, we are smart. Research the LHA. It will never fail to fascinate. I promise.
July 28th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Vera Lynn: I’ve read a bit about the LHC… nine days to go!
July 29th, 2008 at 12:17 am
#1 is the most bizarre.
Sam Harris- “And yet, it is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your thoughts, while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window. And so, while religious people are not generally mad, their core beliefs absolutely are.”
July 29th, 2008 at 1:05 am
216 Good Wolf
You would find that there have been and are a lot of very religious people who didn´t believe what they were told and didn´t accept everything as fact. Not all religion is fundamentalism, which I agree with you is a mental, moral and intellectual straitjacket. Be glad to be rid of it. Run around on the green grass. Throw yourself on your back, kick your legs in die air and give yourself a good long break from it all until you can look at those things with an open and fresh mind.
Good luck!
July 29th, 2008 at 2:05 am
I believe David Icke is a complete nutter! For those of you unfamiliar with him he went on one of the most popular UK chat shows and on prime time airing announced that he was the Son of God.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:57 am
About religion, pasting a post from another list:
What if we look at it this way?:
The love and intelligence in this world must be a manifestation of the potential love and intelligence inherent in the cosmos. That potential must be enormous, perhaps even what we call infinite.
The question is: can an individual have a conscious connection with that source ?
If yes, that is the only true relgion. Then it doesn’t really matter if one is a christian or muslim or anything, because those religions are merely ‘entrances’ to the experience of this connection.
If no, religions are merely social phenomena. At best a positive force in society and at worst a strongly divisive factor.
If you read spiritual texts of all ages and places, you will see that using different words they clearly refer to the same experience of re-connection (re-ligare) with the sourse of all life.
Most people, including the majority of people that would call themselves religious, don’t know this experience. Which explains why the world looks as it does.
End quote. May I add that mistaking the sometimes strange beliefs that float around in organised religion for the essence of religion, is like saying sex equals pornography.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:38 am
Regarding #6 – castle Houska, Czech republic
July 29th, 2008 at 5:41 am
i was with you until the bottom couple. Throwing religion in with nazis on the moon is quite a stretch. especially when over 80% of the world believes in one religion or another. I’d say the inclusion of that as number on this list makes the author irrelevant.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:26 am
#251 Tempyra: I’m also upset not being among those intelligent and nice people XD
About LHC.
The Wagner-Sancho theory that LHC will destroy the word or even the Universe, could fit in this list.
A friend of mine is working in there and I like to say he’s working in the Judgment Day
It could be a nice futur list: “Theories about the world’s ending”
July 29th, 2008 at 6:28 am
262. bob’s your uncle: irreverent. The word is irreverent
July 29th, 2008 at 10:49 am
I’m pretty much an anti-skeptic. I’ll believe in just about anything unless it’s disproven. How can I sit here and judge anyone’s beliefs, or the existence of aliens, Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness Monster when I actively revere and worship an obscure Jewish craftsman from First Century Roman Palenstine?
As for discounting the thousands of other religions because of my beliefs in my own, well, that’s kinda what organized religion is. I’ve got to believe what I believe is right, right? But, more importantly, I get strength from my faith, as do billions of others. Yes, horrible things have been done in the same of religion, but religion and faith are not always synonymous.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Can somebody please edit this list? The syntax is terrible.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
@ Axel -
before criticizing a list i think you need to read the preceding comments. your suggestion has been covered ad nauseum.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
****
263. JB
About LHC.
The Wagner-Sancho theory that LHC will destroy the word or even the Universe, could fit in this list.
****
I think the day after LHC fires up we should have a list of reasons it *didn’t* end the Universe.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
@ LadyPit:
I’ll point out that ALL the religious communities in this dive of a town are very fundamental. In fact the thing that started me on the journey out of that particular christian institution was that I found myself in a cesspool of blind faith, fundamentalism and APATHY. I had been fairly out spoken about it prior and people stopped letting me out my opinion.
So I thought ‘Na, screw them.’ – This is when I was a christian.
July 31st, 2008 at 6:44 am
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269. Good Wolf
…So I thought ‘Na, screw them.’ – This is when I was a christian.
****
Excuse me, Wolfie, let me make sure I understand, because sometimes I get these synapse misfires and I can misinterpret a pretty straightforward statement…did you just say that you let a bunch of lunkheads steal your faith from you?
It’s not a faith I happen to share, despite 13 years of Catholic schooling, but I have a real problem with anyone who intentionally, or by acts of sheer stupidity, would rob another of his faith.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:04 am
269 Good Wolf
Äh— may I point out that “this dive of a town” is not the world? I know how annoying bigots can be, but I agree with Segue that this is a pretty thin reason to chuck up your faith, but I understand it was a pretty thin faith… not your fault, though: All fundamentalism is very thin because since it is unreasonable you find yourself in a constant dichotomy between what you do believe and what you “must” believe (I always had a sincere problem wiht Jonah and the whale).
July 31st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I know it’s not the town, but like I said, I discovered by doing research that there is no evidence to support Jesus existing and then found that everything in the book was ‘CHOSEN’ and everything that didn’t agree was burned. Then after rome converted the catholic church has been ridiculously rich ever since. not to mention such enlightening times as the dark ages and the inquisition – the horrors in the name of JC!
NO! I wipe my hands of Christianity. I personally don’t think there is much to salvage from the bible, but if you insist then i may reconsider.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:52 pm
@Good Wolf and other Christians, ex or actual.
Obviously, the word chistian must something real. Otherwise it doesn’t really mean anything. So what is it that it means ? To believe this or that ? When you believe something, that belief makes you a christian ? And when you don’t believe it anymore you’re no longer so ? If that’s the case, then it’s a mental thing. To really believe the idea X is no better than to really believe Y. Even if X were true and Y false, that doens’t make any dfference, because the quality of believing would be the same.
Obviousy, or to me it seems obvious anyway, to be a christian must refer to some INNER reality. That is, to having an inward connection with your guru Jesus.
If one can be ‘no longer a christian’ because of other people or of not believing in some idea anymore, the conclusion will have to be that one was never a christian in any meaningful sense the first place.
Hopefully realizing this is a liberating experience and inspires to go looking for deeper truths and the experience of such.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
@ Segue:
“269. Good Wolf
…So I thought ‘Na, screw them.’ – This is when I was a christian.
****
Excuse me, Wolfie, let me make sure I understand, because sometimes I get these synapse misfires and I can misinterpret a pretty straightforward statement…did you just say that you let a bunch of lunkheads steal your faith from you?
It’s not a faith I happen to share, despite 13 years of Catholic schooling, but I have a real problem with anyone who intentionally, or by acts of sheer stupidity, would rob another of his faith.”
I’ll clarify that i said na screw them when I left the church… to another church which was much nicer and open to freethinking.
I have a beef with the Calvin Church of Gore, NZ, and I left WITH my faith not without. fast forward 4 months and I become agnostic.
No one would steal MY faith, Segue.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Good Wolf,
Just this: I don’t know where your research about the existence of Jesus took you. I do know that very few, if any, contemporary scholars, most of whom are not christians, doubt that he did.
This message was written in the name of Good Wolf. Does that make him an idiot ?
Right, it doesn’t.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:05 pm
@ Peter
Unfortunately when you make sweeping generalizations like that you sweep away a lot of REALITY. Being a Christian (at least i think this) means that you accept the doctrine of a particular sub division of the christian church. this means adopting a set of preconceived… well, pre conclusions. Many of course build personally on these ideas to fit themselves. But when ones beliefs change so drastically as to become a ‘non-believer’, it becomes somewhat political and a subconscience (or even conscience) “me against him” mentality.
For this reason ‘X’ to ‘Y’ does matter to many, some-a lot, especially if its you friends who have the “me against him” mentality, as it is in my case. sigh.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:27 pm
@Good Wolf,
Well, I was only trying to point out in a rational way that being a christian cannot possibly mean accepting a doctrine of believing this or that. Becasue than the word would have no meaning, no substance. People can and do believe all sorts of things.
Again: if the word christian doesn’t refer to an inner reaity, it doesn’t mean anything. You seem to keep thinking that religion is about belief. It isn’t.
In the meantime I applaud your desire to be authentic, and share your choice of being that over being accepted by peers.
BTW Obviously, people who have a ‘we against them’ mentality, are not showing a close connection with Jesus.
what you say you think it means. Becasue that is meaningless.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Sorry, that last left over sentence should have been deleted.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:02 pm
There are way too many things in this world that have no explanation. Miracles, magik, UFOs, little rocks tumbling in the Californian desert- I have no answers. I just know that I work in a yoga center/spa and I see some amazing things happen to people from sessions that seem illogical. We have a service where a “psychic” works on your energy field and helps heal you. It is one of my favorite sessions here (and she’s not the cold reading psychic, she’s the give her 50% and she’ll fill in the rest psychic). We do reiki- a session where, in essence, someone puts their hands on you for an hour. People are healed.
Magik works for me. Not excessively, since I don’t use it too much, but when I need it it does.
I guess what I’m trying to get at is “we don’t have all the answers”. It’s really senseless arguing amongst ourselves over what is True and what is not. Except for David Icke, he’s crazy
July 31st, 2008 at 5:41 pm
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274. Good Wolf
…I have a beef with the Calvin Church of Gore, NZ, and I left WITH my faith not without. fast forward 4 months and I become agnostic.
No one would steal MY faith, Segue.
****
Great to know it was your own decision. btw, small “s” segue, different shades of meaning…but, notwithstanding, here’s my own journey, not that I truly expect anyone cares but me; at a given point, in the 7th grade, I had come to the conclusion that Jesus was not the son of God, but was, rather, a major prophet, in the same ranking as John the Baptist, or Abraham, or Solomon. All of my religion classes, and my private reading, only reinforced this idea.
I didn’t know where it put me on anybody’s religious scale, but I was sure I wasn’t a Christian, let alone a Catholic!
Skip many years later, and my best friend is a Jew. Lo and behold, the epiphany I’d had at 12 years old had made me a Jew, and I’d never known it.
How’s that for bizarre?
August 1st, 2008 at 12:43 am
@ segue.
weird, but um Im not american, so how many years of schooling is 7th grade? – our system just counts years now.
@ Peter
Well yes but labels, while being meaningless themselves, are given a lot of importance by people who give themselves labels. For instance, my former peers would often talk about being a christian, what is their role as being christian etc. and they saying it and saying it, I’m a christian blah blah blah. I was like that to when I was young and impressionable and Ive come to conclude that its just subconscience self conditioning. Also the chruch’s services strike me to me eerily close to mind control and mass hysteria.
@ Cedestra
yes thats all fine but I think you should understand that the goal of a scientist is to further man’s understanding of the universe. Magika doesn’t hold water for me other than slight of hand and misdirection etc.
August 1st, 2008 at 3:21 am
Ha! I fully expected Religion/God to be #1.
August 1st, 2008 at 8:05 am
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281. Good Wolf
@ segue.
weird, but um Im not american, so how many years of schooling is 7th grade? – our system just counts years now.
****
That’s how our system works, except for Kindergarten, which comes before 1st grade ( or year one, which is, if you’ve gone to K, year 2).
So 7th grade is either year 7 or year 8 ( year 8 for me).
Now, there is also pre-K, which is a purely voluntary addition, and pre-school, which is a sort of pre-pre-K.
In America, you can put your child in some form of school pretty much as soon as they’re potty trained, about two, two and a half, but it doesn’t start counting until K,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,Uni
August 1st, 2008 at 8:21 am
ah soh desu neh. Here in New Zealand we have kindergarten which will have children from between 3-5 years old. we don’t count these years other than to say “they go to kindergarten”. then the first year of primary school for 5yos (occasionally 6yos) and it counts from there.
primary: year 1-6, intermediate: year 7&8, high school: year 9-13. then we group together uni like kindergarten.
A couple of years ago the 1st year of highschool was called Form 1, then form 2 etc.
I’m 19 and in my second gap year. I want to go to Uni to study Linguistics and Psychology.
August 1st, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Good Wolf, that sounds complicated to me, but only because I’m not used to it.
Our Uni is grouped together like high school:
freshman (9th) sophomore (10th) junior (11th) senior (12th)
after Uni reaches senior, one receives a BA or a BFA, (Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Fine Arts), most leave school at that point (if they’ve made it that far), or they can choose to continue on to get a graduate degree, first a Masters, then a PhD.
My son and his wife, both 30, have been in school since the age of 4.
My younger daughter got 2 BFA’s at the same time, and my older daughter got one BFA then went to a Culinary Academy.
We’re sort of over-achievers. Nerds.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Im not clear on the level stucture of uni here myself.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:01 pm
@Good Wolf
“I have a beef with the Calvin Church of Gore, NZ”.
)
Well I don´t know how big the Calvin Church of Gore, NZ, ist, but I rather fancy that it represents not a VERY big part of Christianity. And I think that´s the core of it all. You`re fed up with a certain group of people and their way of being religious, and to rectify this decision you come up with “my research showed Jesus didn´t exist” and oh, of course, the inquisition (*yawn*) and the Bible being all myth, which all sounds a little confused. Well, why not just saying you were fed up with this church? Why not just looking farther then the Calvin Church of Gore? (Nobody here ever heard of it
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:04 am
Good Wolf, historical data does indicate that a person named Jesus lived and preached and was crucified at the appropriate time. *None* of this makes him out to be God, but it does justify his existence.
A few of my problems seem tiny at first glance, but become important when you think about the whole process of predicting his coming.
First and foremost, “…and his name shall be called Emmanuel”.
Well, Mary didn’t name name her son Emmanuel. She named him Jesus. Quite a difference.
So right away, there’s a bit of a problem.
Another thing. He said, supposedly, (afterall, the gospels were written by people who lived after his death), that no one could enter the kingdom of heaven except through him.
Well now, that’s not fair at all.
People lived before him. People lived, and still live, in areas where his word is unavailable to them.
Sounds pretty selfish and self-centered to me, and if he was all he was cracked up to be, that simply wasn’t the sort of statement he’d make.
There are, of course, a lot of other reasons I doubt his godliness, but I figured those two would suffice.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:22 am
I dont see theories like “eternal universe” or “energy manifestation” on the list, hrmmmmm
BIASED much ?
August 4th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
@ segue:
You should look at this.http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
I’ll point out that it doesn’t indicate that a Jesus existed, just indicates a belief in a Jesus. Since all accounts were written at least 40 years after his death. They are hearsay.
A belief in Jesus Christ is as reasonable as the Greeks belief in Hercules.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:02 am
Qabandi makes a good point, i dont think that the list is meant to be of a bias opinion, but a lot of posters have taken the list in a literal way.
the only Chritian i know, is the bloke down the road who runs the local hard ware store and no, thats not his religion, it his bloody name
August 6th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Nr. 2 was great. I’ve been thinking something like that since I was 7 years old. I’m 15 now, by the way.
August 6th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
@ Early philosopher
Did matrix have anything to do with it?
brilliant movie
August 8th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
i love the chakra theory
August 8th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
@Billyshears,
I’m not sure why you love the chakra theory. For the record: no one with any knowledge of the subject will take seriously what is written here about chakras. The creator of this list clearly doesn’t have a clue.
August 9th, 2008 at 8:33 am
****
#294. billyshears
i love the chakra theory
#295. Peter
I’m not sure why you love the chakra theory. For the record: no one with any knowledge of the subject will take seriously what is written here about chakras. The creator of this list clearly doesn’t have a clue.
****
It appears to me as if it was an attempt, though poorly worded, to tie chakra and chi. I’ve heard and read about both, and while chakra, in and of itself, makes no sense to me, chi does.
August 9th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Billyshears,
The way you word your comment suggests that you have studied the subject of chakras for the 1.5 minutes it took to read what the creator of this list wrote about it. Why not study for a few years before forming an opinion ?
FYI: of course chakras and chi are linked. Because chi is the Chinese word for what the Japanese call ki and for which the Sanskrit word is prana. It could be translated as ‘bio-energy’. As chakras are those parts of the subtle body where this energy is concentrated, it doesn’t make any sense to say that chi makes sense and chakra doesn’t. Chakra, by the way, means wheel.
The words and exact configurations of this energysystem are not the point. The point is that there is such a thing as subtle energy, ‘roads’ through which it travels in and around the body, and places where it is concentrated. There are countless referencers to this energy and these centres in the spiritual literature from all times and cultures. One of them being the Bible, about which one may reasonably state that many passages canot be understood without knowledge of the chakras. As I wrote before, the existence of chakras has been proven at the University of Vienna in the 1990’s. We all know some of them from experience anyway. Ever been in love or very nervouss ? Wwat you felt is the energy moving in the solar plexus or 3rd chakra.
Before this becomes a lecture, let me repeat my suggestion to actually study subjects before mentioning them in a list, or forming an opinion about them from a list that contains the kind of missinformation as this one does.
All the best.
Peter
August 12th, 2008 at 5:40 am
If Religion as a “theory” is on here too, Evolution should be too.
Molecules to man evolution, the supposed adding of information through chance mutations to DNA (when all evidence points to mutation causing a loss rather than an increase in genetic information), is pretty bizarre if you ask me.
It’s equally untestable no matter what current claims are made.
The recent news about a scientist supposedly observing evolution in E-Coli just shows adaptation rather than evolution.
So called “Intermediate” fossils either show say birds turning into birds, horses turning into horses, or patchwork animals like the platypuss.
August 12th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
But the theory of evolution sprung out of logic. The very facts that 1) a species doesn’t spring out of nothing, and 2) there existed being’s in the past that don’t exist now, and being’s that exist now that weren’t around 500,000 years ago. Then there is evidence to support the ideas, mainly in the form of fossils.
an example is that when the dinosaurs roamed, there existed no grass, so where did that come from?
The opposition is of course creationism, which needless to say, hasn’t a fraction of the evidence that evolution does.
August 12th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
And don’t call me bias. I’m just being realistic here.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Actually, creationism uses the same evidence evolution does. The difference is the starting point of assumptions made the way the evidence is viewed.
Evolutionists look at the fossil record and see millions of years of “evolution”
Creationists look at the fossil record and see the results of a cataclysmic, world wide flood.
To address one of your points, “a species doesn’t spring out of nothing” totally agree, law of biogenesis. Yet Evolution claims that non-living matter, through chance processes, converged to form single celled organisms. Kinda like a tornado going through a junkyard and assembling a boeing 747.
The other point “there existed beings in the past that don’t exist now” also agree. Natural selection and mutation means creatures exist today in forms that weren’t present before. This is because variation was programmed into the DNA by God but you don’t see an upwards progression of species turning into other species.
So you see, same evidence, different conclusions.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:46 am
However one is based on the scientific method and one is based on wishful thinking.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:54 am
“Yet Evolution claims that non-living matter, through chance processes, converged to form single celled organisms. Kinda like a tornado going through a junkyard and assembling a boeing 747″
now no one is claiming that. of course the event that started life happened so long ago that no evidence apart from DNA exists from the event so no one can say what happened with any certainty.
also tests have shown that making amino acid chains (what dna is made of) isn’t actually that hard, so the tornado and the boeing 747 is a poor analogy, especily when you think that it only takes one piece of self replicating chain and you have life and think how many thousands of years opportunity life were given.
August 13th, 2008 at 4:10 am
That is the claim of macroevolution or vertical evolution. Microevolution, or horizontal evolution (aka natural selection and adaptation) isn’t denied by creationism.
Creationism isn’t based on wishful thinking as there are many capable scientists who are creationists and their theories are based on the scientific method.
Ironically, evolution is something that requires faith (i.e. as you yourself just said, no one knows how life began via evolution, but its believed it did.)
And the types of amino acids that were made were apparently of a left handed variety and the amino acids that occur in life are right handed. Also, the amino acids were made in a laboratory under conditions devised by the scientist, who has no certain knowledge of the atmospheric conditions of the world at the time he’s claiming his experiment takes a lead from. It, in itself, has a bias.
You can have a self replicating chain, but in order for it to become what me and you are today, it requires an increase in information and chance random mutations don’t add information. They twist it, rearrange it or destroy it.
All the fossil record shows today is animals changing into the same kind of animal. Dogs into dogs not cats into dogs.
August 13th, 2008 at 4:30 am
It is wishful thinking. all conclusions are based on the assumption the earth was created in 6 days a few thousand years ago.
lets just ignore evidence that suggests the earth is older than that.
And of course life can’t be a natural by-product of time and chemistry driven by chance. ohh no, its too complicated for that.
August 13th, 2008 at 4:36 am
All evolution conclusions are based on the assumption that the universe began randomly billions of years ago and that time and chance are all that’s needed to produce life.
The evidence that the earth is older is based on a flawed method (radiometric dating). Rocks dated using this method that were taken from the Mount St Helens eruption gave dates of millions of years.
Multilayered sediments that look like those in which fossils are found were also laid down in this eruption.
And yes, I believe life is too complicated to be given over simply to chance. Even the “simplest” single celled organisms are incredibly complex.
Lots of time and chance just seems to be a matter of convenience for something that can’t be observed.
And to me, I don’t see why religion is so much more far fetched than that.
August 13th, 2008 at 4:55 am
you have to understand that life’s first form won’t have been the “simple single celled organism” that you are familiar with.
To be considered alive, all the amino acid chain would have to do is reproduce itself, that’s it. Via process of evolution (which by the sound of things, ur familiar with) you eventually develop a shield or a wall.
Its not an inconceivable idea.
but what one must also understand is that there is no reason that God wouldnt use that process. – since it’s a self sustaining process, i’m in favour of it. I do believe in God, but I won’t constrick my outlook on life by a book that doesn’t contain anything but myth.
Its wishful thinking
August 13th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Do you believe in God or do you believe in the concept of a god? And what proof do you have that a book such as the Bible doesn’t contain ANYTHING but myth, despite overwhelming evidence that the book is historic? Are Israelites mythical? Was Rome mythical? Was Christ mythical? Evidence seems to say no. And that’s not wishful thinking.
Either way, why is it that mankind and even those who profess to believe in God assume that they know better than He does?
The problem is that you’re starting off assuming that the revealed Word of God is just a myth, putting the authority of man before the authority of God.
Lets say for a moment you start off with the assumption that the Bible is the true revealed Word of the Eternal God. He wouldn’t have used evolution because in Genesis God said that everything He created was “very good”. How could evolution, a process which relies on death be used to bring about a creation that was “very good”? He wouldn’t be a very loving God if that was His means of creation.
Could He have used it? He’s the eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God. So of course it’s within His power. But also, it would be a trivial thing for this same God to create the world in 6 days, 6000 years ago.
With the whole amino acid thing, DNA uses a very complex process to replicate. It’s able to replicate because of the information and programming that tells it how to do that. Amino acids, on their own, aren’t capable of this and no experiment has been able to produce this. The process that produced the amino acids in the lab wasn’t something where the sicentisit just put all the things together and left it to work, he interfered and influenced the process.
It’s like if a scientist was able to make a single celled organism in the lab by bringing together all the basic bits and going by what he knows of single celled organisms, this would be touted as evidence of evolution, even though it would’ve taken an outside agent, going by a “blueprint” of sorts to produce it. NOT by simple leaving a pile of goo in a test tube without touching, affecting or stimulating it. Because it would be an intelligent agent guiding the process.
August 13th, 2008 at 7:47 am
@Stizzy
“The problem is that you’re starting off assuming that the revealed Word of God is just a myth, putting the authority of man before the authority of God.”
I agree with you that believing is the concept of God is not the same as believing in God as a reality. I would go further: to believe in God doesn’t really mean much. People believe in all sorts of things. Without actual experience of truths, those truths remain in the mental sphere.
Having said that: No Stizzie, the problem is not that Good Wolff assumes the word of God is just a myth. The problem is that you have an a priori axioma, which makes you unable to exchange ideas and insights in a meaningful way.
I consider the Bible to be this: one of the great sacrred books available to mankind, containing a mixture of historic facts, stories taken from other cultures (a proven fact), metaphores, teachings, fabrications (by warring factions within the Jewish community, as liguistic research shows), poetry, laws, attemps to give a somewhat disorginised people a common background, etc.
Isn’t that a sane, respectful position that is in accordance with everything we know about the Bible ? yet you somehow discredit this position. Based on what ?
The value of this immortal book is in my opinion greatly and sadly dinished by giving it some kind of ‘untouchability status’.
You know, I used to think that a bad song by Eric Clapton was still greater than any other’s songs. I guess I thought this was a matter of loyalty, or something. In fact, it was missing the point of music.
I hope you’re missing the point of religon.
All the best.
August 13th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Sorry !!!!!!!!!!!!
Last line was meant to read of course: I hope you NOT missing the point of religion.
August 13th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Plus the word ‘are’.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Thanx for the insight, peter.
@ Stizzy. first) I can have no certainty that God actually said “It was good” Just because it’s writen doesnt make it so. I happen to think that ALL things that God has made are good, encluding all the dead species and the species yet to exiat.
secondly) There is no restriction on myths that means they can’t be set in real places. for example: Heracles. he existed in ancient greece. Ancient Greece existed, yet there were still myths set there. which means a supposedly mythical being (jesus) could exist in the places stated.
Thirdly) Before you get so defensive over your religion, you should probably consider that most if not all of christianity was plagiarized from the ancient egyptian religion. encluding the trinity, the messiah, the great flood, angels, demons and the list goes on and on.
hay! let me tel you a story. there once was a guy who was born dec 25th to a virgin. birth was announced by a star in the east, three kings came to adore him. child prodigy at 12, was baptised at 30 and began his ministry. he had 12 deciples. he was crucified and after 3 days, rose again before ascending into heaven.
his name was Horus, egypt- 3000bce.
his name was Attas, Greece – 1200bce
his name was Mithra, Persia – 1200bce
his name was Krishna, India – 900bce
his name was Dionysus, Greece – 500bce
his name was Jesus, bethlehem – 4bce
get the picture. Jesus is the latest in a long line of “SOLAR Deities”
August 13th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Good Wolf: let us not be too quick to believe propaganda:
Horus: Mother was Isis, father was Osiris (her brother) – she was not a virgin. Wikipedia has an excellent article on how she and Osiris were able to have a child together (she used magic to raise him from the dead).
Attas: have you spelt this wrong? The closest thing I can find that you might be referring to is Helios – who has none of the connections you describe above.
Mithra: to answer this I will quote JT from another list where this was debated: “Mithras’ birth was celebrated on the 25th becasue that was the date of the winter solstice, and the Christians later adopted that for their God. He was not born of a virgin, he was born out of rock as an adult. He also never died, and thus could not have risen from the dead. He also didn’t have 12 disciples, that’s a common misconception based on a carving of Mithras at the centre of the zodiac. ”
Krishna: How you came to your conclusion on this I do not know. The facts are: Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna’s birth, known as Janmashtami, as either 18th or 21st July 3228 BCE (not 25 Dec). Additionally, Krishna belonged to the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva. Eight sons? Hardly a virgin. There is no claim in the story of Krishna to resurrection. He was killed by an arrow.
Dionysus: This is the only one you mention that has some similarities to Jesus – though his mother was not a virgin. And the similarities are not what you mention above, but rather aspects of his life and the miracles in Jesus’ life. Oh – and Dionysus is not the god of the Sun – he is the god of wine.
August 13th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
August 13th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
yes i did misspell it. Attis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attis
does’t hold all the hallmarks of Big J but some.
Born of the virgin Nana.
Died and was resurrected.
And appeared to the people as God-like (messiah parallel)
And no they don’t all echo exactly but the myths surrounding them and their messianic ways come out of astrology, which is why Mithra appeared to have 12 followers or disciples.
I might also point out that in all early occult art of Jesus, his head is in the center of the zodiac for he represents the sun. the shorthand of the zodiac is this:http://www.stickergirl.com/images/CrossCircle.jpg
Google: zeit geist movie
and watch right through part 1
August 13th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Good Wolf: seriously, citing that movie as evidence for your argument is not helping you one bit! One commentator says this: “In a piece entitled “Internet idiocy: the latest pandemic”, an opinion piece in the Arizona Daily Wildcat refers to the film as “internet bullshit”, saying that “witty sayings, fear tactics and a cool, assertive air all enable them to convince the unwitting public of their points” while another in the Irish Times called it “unhinged” and accused it of offering nothing but “surreal perversions of genuine issues and debates.”"
Do you also believe the “9/11 was an inside job” as that film states?
Oh – and Attis was reborn as a pine tree – that is hardly a parallel with Jesus
Also, I am not sure why early art with Jesus’ head in the center of the zodiac means anything.
I think the fact remains that Jesus was a true historical person – and no attempts to find parallels in ancient history disputes that – it merely shows that there were similarities in early mythologies. Even non-Christian writers of the time of Jesus agree that he was real – Josephus for example:
“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.” [Written in 93 AD by Josephus who was born just a few years after Jesus died]
August 13th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
J – very well versed and explained
August 13th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
CRSN: thanks
August 13th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
i wasnt supposed to post so many times. each time i hit submit nothing happend
August 13th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
the Josephus example is hearsay. Plus historians believe that it is an interpolation.
August 13th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus: no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus were written well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.
What appears most revealing of all comes not from what people later wrote about Jesus but what people did not write about him. Consider that not a single historian, philosopher, scribe or follower who lived before or during the alleged time of Jesus ever mentions him.
Luke 5:15 says that there grew “a fame abroad of him: and great multitudes came together to hear…” The persecution of Jesus in Jerusalem drew so much attention that all the chiefs, priests and scribes, including the high priest Caiaphas, not only knew about him but also helped in his alleged crucifixion.
So here, we have the gospels portraying Jesus as famous far and wide, a prophet and healer, with great multitudes of people who knew about him, including the greatest Jewish high priests and the Roman authorities of the area, and not one person records his existence during his lifetime? If the poor, the rich, the rulers, the highest priests, and the scribes knew about Jesus, how can it be that no one had heard of him?
August 13th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
And yes I do believe that 9/11 was an inside job and have done so a good couple of years before I found ZeitGeist, but that is another discussion
August 13th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Goodwolf – Bad dog, go to the corner, now!
Mate, you have to understand that people in the world havent been tuaght the way that you have, the information that has been presented to them may have been done so from a different perspective.
firstly, i was raised in an Irish Catholic Family, i dont consider myself to be catholic even though i went the the reconciliation, communion yudda yudda yudda, but i consider myself to be an atheist.
the teaching that i recieved from the bible and the morals of my teachers to this day is invaluable and i wouldnt be here with out it.
but, consider this, whether it be the Bible, the Koran or the diamond sutra (Buddist) all the books are tying to teach morals by expaining them through stories.
this shit that you are going on about that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job is utter bullshit, you go on about how there is no documentation made about Jesus when he was living and that the bulk of the writting were done after his death and that makes you sceptical about his true existence.
give us the “hard facts” about the 9/11 shit your going on about, and then we might be able to digest that crap
August 13th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Well if would like to open a discussion about 9/11 I’d happily oblige.
It’s worth knowing first though that the inside job idea is known as “False Flag” (tends to be) when a govt’ stages an attack from a foreign body to manipulate the public to support a War.
There are three well known examples:
*Hitler burning down his own reichstag (or parliament building)
Got public support of Poland Invasion
*Woodrow Wilson Sending the Lusitania into waters where German Uboats where known to be.
Got public support for entering WW1
*Nixon lieing to the people alleging that 3 US battleships were attacked by North Viet Nameese PT Boats.
Got America in the Viet Nam War.
… among others, so know that it happens.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
And in point of fact; according to opinion polls, 36% of americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job, so it’s not uncommon.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
I forgot to say the Lusitania, loaded with civilians, was destroyed by a german U-boat.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I didnt ask for that stuff, the Hitler one about him burnig the reichstag was because he was destroying documentation, he then did use it as an aside to invade Poland, but that wasnt the only reason.
and thats not even a majority at 36%, and their prbably so fucking paranoid from smoking meth.
the north veitnameese did attack the boat, Nixon was covering up the fact that they were in their Militries Water zone.
and the Lusitania was given the go ahead by the company that still owned it, the company was warned because tensions had become strained at that time between the 2 countries, and that was the straw which broke the camels back for Woodrow because it was full of civilians,
do a little more research outside of your narrow viewed, paranoid square and you’ll find some facts.
Sorry J, cant watch this crap in the comments. It just feels so Westbro Baptist church when i read stuff like that posted.
and thats another good point, if you believe 9/11 was an inside job, well you would do good in this community:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/
August 13th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
geez i need to check my spelling in future, my last rant is full of mistakes
August 13th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Alright fine, I know when I’m not wanted.
btw jfrater, have you actually watched the Zeit Geist movie?
August 13th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
ahhhhh, peace and quiet, its deafening
August 13th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Good Wolf: you certainly can’t discard the testimony of Josephus – it is only modern scholars who are arguing against its veracity. It is certainly ancient – it was quoted virtually word for word by Eusebius in 324 AD.
As for the historical records of his execution – name 10 criminals who were executed in the decade that Christ was executed. Lack of written documentation does not disprove his existence – it proves that records were shoddy (if kept at all).
What we do have is people in different countries writing about him independently of each other with stories that pretty much corroborate each other. You can’t simply discard the evidence that we do have because there is not more about other aspects of his life – or he is not mentioned by people you think should have mentioned him.
As I said, Josephus is our most renowned historian of the time and he DID make mention of Jesus. Furthermore, when he wrote his testimony it was 60 years after Jesus had died – around the same time as the apostles wrote the words you cited as proof that he can’t have existed. Josephus agrees with what the apostles say.
So – let us just ask another question – if Jesus didn’t exist – who invented Christianity? Even the Jewish Council of Jamnia knew of Christianity because they included a curse on the Christians in their religious texts at the council (around 70-90AD).
So, here is a short list of people who believed in Jesus and wrote about him before the time that Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the empire (I mention him just to bypass the fruitless argument that he invented Christianity):
Iraeneas (died 202 AD) – he wrote a number of books, all of which are still available today. His best known work is Against Heresies (c. 180). He, obviously, refers to Jesus and his teachings.
This one is particularly interesting – it is from a letter by Polycarp – this still exists today as well. The opening sentence:
“Polycarp and the presbyters that are with him unto the Church of God which sojourneth at Philippi; mercy unto you and peace from God Almighty and Jesus Christ our Savior be multiplied.”
Polycarp was born in 69 AD – some of the apostles were still alive – in fact he was a student of John – the guy who wrote the Gospel of John and the Apocalypse (revelations).
You can read the whole letter here.
Next up, Clement (born 3 years before Jesus died): He became Bishop of Rome around 88 AD. Two of his letters still exist as well. He said:
“The Church of God which sojourns at Rome, to the Church of God sojourning at Corinth, to them that are called and sanctified by the will of God, through our Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ, be multiplied.”
Ignatius: he wrote many letters – 7 authentic ones remain to this date. He was born around 35 AD and died in 110.
Now, either these people didn’t exist either (despite their corroborating reports) or they are referring to a real person (Jesus) who they know of from their teachers (St John in the case of Ignatius and Polycarp).
Their letters still survive. So who is the Jesus they refer to? If he didn’t exist, who was the guy that got them all believing the same apparent lies? Did they just wake up and decide to make the whole thing up? You simply cannot say that history does not give us sufficient evidence that Jesus did exist.
August 13th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
J – Wow, remind me of that post if we ever get the shits at each other, i aint gonna commit web suicide
August 13th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
I’m telling you, since no one says “I saw him” claims to have seen him in first person and all accounts are second hand, none of it can stand as anything more than hearsay. Now I can’t prove that there wasn’t a guy walking about with the name Jesus (because in reality there would have been many as it was a common name, apparently). My point is the biblical account of Jesus can not be at all accurate.
No doubt 2000 years ago, a man by the name Jesus walked from here to there speaking on a range of topics. And in all likelihood, he would have had followers – Christianity at the time would have been a sect. History will tell us there where many sects and each with their ‘messiah’(means “The Anointed (One)”) Even John T. Bap. is said to have had a sect.
The Biblical image that has become synonymous with the name Jesus truly would have came to be in 325 CE in the Council of Nicaea. In the council, the leaders decided what would be doctrine and wouldn’t. Everything that didn’t make the cut was burned or destroyed as I understand it.
What’s noteworthy is the dead sea scrolls. They are of the Nostic sect, which paints a very different picture of Jesus.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Goodwolf – Sect = Section, a part, a peice, people who have been involved with it, there are many sections of Christianity, one would be Catholisism, it could be considered as a sect from your point of view, how could the “word” be spread, yes, there is a different veiw from sect(ions) to sect(ion)it affords people to be involved from their point of view and that has come from the different perspectives that the apostels have taken the teachings from,
look at it this way, if you were explaining simple evolution to a class that included, say, John Lennon, Stalin, Bill Clnton, a smack addict, even an ape, they would come out of the class with a different view of how evolution works in comparison to how their class peers had perceved the lesson.
it sounds like you are just a conspiracy theorist, thats great, becuase there is always something to be investegated, but for me to think that you actually beleive what you are writting, i cant read it any more, my brain is starting to bleed out of sheer pity for you.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
My heart bleeds, CRSN *-)
August 13th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
What? that peice of coal next to your lung?
August 13th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
No CRSN, typically people have an organ called a heart where you find your piece of coal. you should get that checked.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Alright, this shit needs to stop right now
i wont let myself be pulled in to your childish shit, i have found myself coming down to you derogitory level and i wont continue out of respect for J and the others.
just bare this in mind that you are being kept an eye on.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
I just added a brief edit to that last comment btw.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
J – how the hell do you know all that
August 13th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
jfrater: How do you happen to be so knowledgeable about early Christianity and Catholicism? You sound like someone who has studied it quite thoroughly.
August 13th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
its like he studied in a monistory or something with a laptop in hand at all times
August 14th, 2008 at 1:12 am
Early Christianity is a bit of a hobby of mine
August 14th, 2008 at 1:24 am
Okay – I seem to have somehow deleted the last comment – which was rather extensive!
Rather than repeating it, I will ask Good Wolf to read up on the Council of Elvira and the Council of Ancyra and the Council of Arles – all of which pre-date Constantine. They all have canons which are in accord with the teachings of Nicaea and even now.
Additionally- the dead sea scrolls (Qamran library) is an ancient copy of the Bible – the Gnostic writings (condemned by Iraeneas above) are the Nag Hammadi library. Totally different things.
So – again I ask, who invented Christianity? It existed in the same form as Nicaea well before, the Church fathers were all in accord with the same teachings from as early as the mid 1st century. If it wasn’t Jesus, who was it?
August 14th, 2008 at 1:28 am
Aliens
August 14th, 2008 at 2:00 am
Interesting stuff in the comments! Whether you believe or not, religion is well interesting.
Asking not as someone who particularly buys the theories- why all the hate towards people who wanna discuss 9/11? To just accept the official account and dismiss opposing points of view as “b*llshit” or whatever I think is kinda disprespectful- if anyone I knew was a victim I’m sure I’d want all angles covered.
Not saying I believe them because, well, it would be an issue of *belief* rather than logic- I’m no scientist, I couldn’t say which side is giving the right facts- but to not have something of that importance open to discussion wouldn’t be cool.
August 14th, 2008 at 4:44 am
jf took most of the words out my mouth in response to the previous discussion about Christ.
What I always find most interesting is the lengths people go to disprove Jesus, the Bible, the existence of God etc, to the point of planting forgeries or purporting hearsays. Makes me wonder what they’re so afraid of if people who believe these things are simply deluded?
On the issue of Bible canon, the majority of the Bible was established by the time of Jesus (old testament). And by the time many of the later epistles were written, other letters by the apostles were already considered scripture. So by the time Constantine came into the picture, the Bible as it is today was pretty much fully established and agreed upon.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:01 am
At the risk of sounding ignorant (this is just from secondary sources, I’ve only read translations and such) but doesn’t the bible disagree with it’s self a ton of times?
Despite being (technically) a Catholic as a child, I have no idea whether the bible is meant to be the literal word of an infallible being or if it’s meant to have been written from the minds of scholars and historians and whatever. If the former, and if there are *any* inconsistencies that aren’t merely in translation, I’d take that as disproving that theory. I mean, god should know what order he created the word in and stuff.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:35 am
The Bible is meant to be God’s perfect Word, and from my own study I’ve found that when something is found that appears to be an inconsistency its due to taking it out of context(any text out of contex is a pretext), or that mans understanding of what’s being said is flawed.
I suggest checking out this link http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n4/isnt-the-bible-full-of-errors
as they do a better job of explaining these things than i do.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/bible.asp
that link deals with some of the other issues brought up in this discussion.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:38 am
Thanks
I’ll check ‘em out. I’d found a few atheist websites on the subject, but they’re not to be taken at face value.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:49 am
“The claim that the Bible has errors is frequently just an excuse for not believing.”
It only seems to be able to explain a minority of the innacuracies, but then it does link to books which possibly could, I dunno.
In case anyone’s interested-
http://exchristian.net/pics/bible_quiz.htm
that’s the quiz that got this line of thought rolling. It’s one person’s view though, it could be entirely possible that he’s misunderstood and misinterpreted.
August 14th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Re-reading *my* above link, it’s obvious that some of the time it’s clutching at straws and taking things out of context- but there are some good points there I thought.
August 14th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I love that religion is number one. I guess it is a theory…
August 14th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Religion is a way of life for some people. Its a curse and a blessing I guess, as people who dedicate themselves completely to what they believe can go on to do wonderful things for humanity or incredibly horrible things to humanity.
Vlad Tepes was the sole inspiration for the Dracula legends. The reality is far far worse than the fiction.
I remember reading that Hitlers hatred for jews came from a book he read written by Martin Luther (the creator of the protestant faith) called “The Jews and their lies”
some humanity heros: Ghandi and Mother Teresa
August 19th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
144. Astraya “I verge towards being a grammar and expression stickler. If this is the edited version, then I hate to think what the original version looked like. “Mar’s” just should not happen on a reputable website. (Presuming we are one.) All future contributors, please check out http://listverse.com/literatur…..t-writing/ before you submit.”
1: I found this list very entertaining.
2: I couldn’t care one jot whether someone uses correct grammer or spelling, as long as I can get the gist it’s ok by me.
3: I love the concept of this site, but there are some EXTREMELY pompous and pedantic people on here.
================================================
A few words on the religious slanging match that has erupted here…
I am an atheist, so for me most religion is bizarre. I treat others how I wish to be treated and I don’t need a God to tell me that, it also doesn’t make me delusional. I don’t need anyone telling me i’m wrong to subscribe to atheism, it’s my right as much as believing in an ethereal being is yours, so shush now!!!
I signed up on here today and i’ll be leaving today. I cannot quite believe the amount of bigotted comments i’ve had to wade through on this list alone.
Jamie? I visited your site through a recommendation from the BBC Television programme “Click”. Had they dug a little deeper and read what i’ve read today, I don’t think it would have made the show. I would strongly advise you to kick the Elitest clique. I feel this would encourage a better class of poster who would value others comments more than the accuracy of their spelling, grammar or to which theology they might subscribe.
To conclude, your site is great but some of its members suck…
August 19th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Tarantella: Maybe you could check out ebaumsworld for comparison?
August 19th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Tarantella – As a long time user of the site, i have to admit you post is a little silly, in any forum there are heated discussions when posters dont see eye to eye with each other on subjects, especially religion and politics, for you to stand on your high horse like you have is only making you look as though you cant except others views, let alone explain why you dont agree, you may think that you have, but you are effectivly cutting your self off from any poster wanting to talk to you, if you want to see the more indepth part of the site, you’d sign up to the forums.
Jfrater does a very good job and all the editors that help out do their utmost best as well, so u being a grammer nazi, we really dont give that much of a fuck about a mistake here and their, the site is here for its entertainment value, not for you to bitch about. so, if you dont like whats going on, DONT COME HERE THEN DOOFUS!
August 19th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Tarantella: Thanks for the comment – I value every comment here – even those which I find disturbing or offensive. I think one of the best things about the site is that we get such diverse views from the comments – in fact a lot of people come here JUST for the comments! I also second what Tempyra just said – check out the comments on youtube and ebaumsworld (a far more prolific site than this) – you would be appalled at the inane stuff you find there.
Finally – I think if you read some of the comments on the other lists you will find that as a general rule we have a much better standard of commenters than usual. Grammar nazis will be found on every site – but we just have to take what they say with a grain of salt – or perhaps a salt-lick
Anyway! Welcome to the site and I hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of the rest of the lists – untold hours have gone in to making them
August 19th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Guys – note that tarantella wasn’t being the grammar nazi – he or she was complaining about someone else being one
August 19th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
jfrater: I wonder if Tarantella came across the fish/fishes debacle…
August 19th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Now i have to eat my words, a couple of years ago that would have been paper, but i dont know how i can eat a computer
sorry tarantella, no harm meant.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Tempyra – That wasnt funny, i went to the ebaumsworld site, what a waist of web space
August 20th, 2008 at 2:59 am
CRSN – youd like a little song written by lemon demon about that site. It talks about a dude that turns the internet into his bitch by making ebaumsworld. And that we should all stand up against this evil.
It’s a really cool song & band. Check em out.
Oh and tarantella, get used to people using the comments section as a gladiator pit or words. Many people engage in arguments that arn’t really arguements but fight as both parties have all ready made up their minds. -though that’s just typical humanity I guess.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:06 am
CRSN: *sSsSsh* or you’ll invite the inanity here.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:16 am
Firstly… My sincerest apologies to everybody. Fate was in darkest humour yesterday, and I think I owe everyone an explanation…
I wandered on here from a forum I frequent after leaving a particularly vicious debate about religion where a flamer suggested all atheists should be executed in the name of God.
I broke two self-imposed rules yesterday:
1: Never get involved in religious debates.
2: Don’t retaliate to flamers.
I did both in that forum and I managed to work myself up into a rightous frenzy about it, then i found this site, and this list…
I arrived primed and cocked, which was unfortunate, so please accept my apologies everyone… Not my most auspicious entrance ever…
August 20th, 2008 at 5:25 am
Tarantella: I’m glad it wasn’t the fish/fishes thing – you seem more intelligent than that
I hope you’re planning on staying around and enjoying the (mostly) intelligent debating that goes on here
August 20th, 2008 at 5:38 am
Now that i’ve returned from planet Funk, I think I will stay…
And thank you for your kind words…
P.S. So… This fish/fishes thing… What’s that all about??? *snigger*
August 20th, 2008 at 5:57 am
Cool
I recommend the 9 Extraordinary Human Abilities list (’cos I MADE IT
)
The fish/fishes thing = commenters trying to ‘correct’ a mistake in the list title of this list
I thought it was funny anyway
August 20th, 2008 at 6:10 am
Speechless?
August 20th, 2008 at 6:14 am
OK… I know I definitely wrote some text to go in that blank comment.. Surely I’m not that mad? rofl
August 20th, 2008 at 6:16 am
I’ll take a looksie at your list right now…
August 20th, 2008 at 6:19 am
Must have used invisible internet ink by accident :-p
My comments (another list) are a bit messed up too, but that’s all me. I am going to go get some sleep now. ‘night all!
August 20th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Good night Tempyra
August 20th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Names… too- Similar. ah!
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:20 am
I loved this list, but perhaps you could have included some Wikipedia links. #8 is called the “Phantom time hypothesis” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:00 am
The Nazi’s live on pluto silly, along with all your other crazy theories. They don’t half make ya think though.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:57 pm
#6 is defenitily false if the earth was hollow it would would implode(collapse into itself)from the force of gravity. i think #2 s false too.
August 24th, 2008 at 4:27 am
Why? If the earth is hollow then it isn’t going to weigh much and would resist collapse.
August 27th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Unfortunately, some religions carry the second to the last sentence in the last paragraph – “Do unto others ….” a little further by adding ” do it first!”
August 31st, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Fun reading. Though I am shocked that people are actually sad enough to ask for grammatical errors to be corrected. I think you may have missed the point. Great effort.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:53 pm
“a castle in Europe with defenses set to defend against an attack from the inside out” — Where is that exactly?
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:15 pm
#381. Rasta
“a castle in Europe with defenses set to defend against an attack from the inside out” — Where is that exactly?
****
I always want to know who would dumb enough to live *INSIDE* a planet?
Are we talking mole-people?
The whole idea creeps me out.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
all these are bizarre indeed
September 4th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Here in Wisconsin, two mental defective parents are currently on trial for negligent homicide for allowing their young daughter to suffer and die from diabetes because they “believed” that their prayers would save her and did not give her any medical health. Yet another death because of “belief…”
September 6th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Nazis on the moon, I love it!! There should be a few z-movies about it. Also, isn’t number 2 the premise of the Matrix?
September 7th, 2008 at 10:42 am
just joined listverse, ive read like almost all the posts but thought id join. I gotta say, number 8 and the discussions about it are really interesting lol
September 22nd, 2008 at 6:31 pm
#2 Reminds me of “A Hitchhikers Guide To the Galaxy” where earth turned out to be a TV show. Haha
October 8th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
I think Jesus and Muhammed are the exact same person.
Beeches.
October 8th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
388. ElenaSFA: Jesus and Muhammad are trees?
I must be dreadfully out of touch.
October 12th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I love a list that creates controversy. I believe #2 may be true. That would explain a lot of things for me like dejavu and past life experiences. It was just the program run over again with a few changes.
October 13th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
If it was true they wouldn’t of had programmed our minds to be able to think of that. DUH!
October 13th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
391. m0nk3y humor: If it was true they wouldn’t of had programmed our minds to be able to think of that. DUH!
****
ummmm, it really helps if you refer to the post to which you’re responding. Complete sentences, ones which include a noun, a verb, and an adjective, are also helpful.
October 13th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Seague – i think they were referring to MT’s post, but what do you expect from a poster with m0nk3y in their name
October 13th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Segue, hey man if you’re gonna be nit-picky … “ummmm” should be capatilized.
CRSN- In the words of Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert,”Put any reference of monkey in it and it’s a classic.” Thus,”monkey humor.”
October 13th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Monkey – the only thing in the world that is classic and involves “monkey” in ther name is the old series of “Monkey Magic”.
and Seague will make a monkey out of you, sorry, couldnt resist that poor pun
October 14th, 2008 at 9:28 am
394. monkeyhumor:…hey man if you’re gonna be nit-picky … “ummmm” should be capatilized.
****
No, it should not. See those three little dot’s, those are a device called an ellipsis, which one uses when one wishes to omit words. I omitted words before the “ummmm”, meaning it was not the first word of the sentence, thus not capitalized (btw, not to be nit-picky, but learn to spell).
October 15th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Seague – always the voice of reason mate
October 15th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
CRSN
November 18th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
No.1 deserves to be No.1 on the list. Logic and rational thinking is suspended by most people when it comes to religion
November 22nd, 2008 at 6:10 am
#4 is the one I take issue with – you see, I think that actually positive thought is actually a good idea because we do have a psychological/physiological link that can have a major effect on us. I wouldn’t say it’s more powerful then medicine, but I would say that it does have an effect.
It’s been proven that if you hold a sad/depressed face for long enough you’ll actually begin to feel sad and depressed after a while. Conversely, if you hold a smile on your face for long enough, you’ll actually begin to feel happier. It’s stupid, but it’s true. It’s a good thing to do before an important meeting that you’re not looking forwards to – when you’re happier you’re more likely to establish a good rapport with the people you’re working with and therefore to better in the meeting.
Similarly, wishing yourself better may not directly make you actually better, but it might encourage you to do something as you’re ‘beginning to feel better’ which will mean that you’ll rest better afterwords because you’ve actually gone out and done something (because you always feel worse and rest worse if you’ve done sweet f**k all during the day) and it’s part of a cycle that’ll help get you better quicker.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:09 am
I agree. Psychologists will tell you that pretending to have a positive attitude will, eventually, result in a positive attitude.
I’m not talking about suicidal depression, here, just mild cases of the blues or, as in your example, preforming some task you’d rather not be preforming.
Simple, really.
November 23rd, 2008 at 3:36 pm
I didn’t believe in #9 until Dick Cheney became VP.
February 6th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
“one small step for man, one giant leap fo.. holy shit! nazis!”
February 20th, 2009 at 8:47 am
this list is uneducational and uninteresting… I believe it is purely subjective, only based on the opinions of its contributors…
sorry, i love listverse… and this is the first time i am truly disappointed of what I have read…
February 20th, 2009 at 8:58 am
I agree Mayla, the creator of this list was clearly totally uninformed about some of the subjects. The existence of chakras for instance has actually been proven by a team at the university of Vienna in the ’90s. Also there are numerous researches done that show the very real effect of thought and prayer. The stupid thing here is that the auther makes a distinction between thought and the placebo effect. How ignorant can one be ?
February 20th, 2009 at 9:30 am
yes, so ignorant coz i don’t happen to believe in the so-called facts that a team of achuchu have proven in the year of the achuchuchus…
facts are objective… meaning they were true before, true today, and will remain true in the future… all humans have subjective intellects… so to me, it is not enough to believe that whatever humans have proven based on research are true…
February 20th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
406. mayla:…all humans have subjective intellects… so to me, it is not enough to believe that whatever humans have proven based on research are true…
****
So someday soon mayla may decide not to believe in gravity, and therefore go floating off into space, burning up as she does so, like a reverse meteor.
Cool. I want tix to that event.
February 21st, 2009 at 1:04 pm
so not believing in gravity would result in floating off into space?
hehehehe….
now that’s what i call a theory
February 21st, 2009 at 2:58 pm
406. mayla:…so to me, it is not enough to believe that whatever humans have proven based on research are true…
****
So, depending on the strength of your belief, or non belief, you could change the way you interact with the planet. ..the placebo effect in meta-form.
I, personally, believe in what scientific has proven, based on the scientific method.
February 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
of course I was joking.
February 26th, 2009 at 9:36 am
If you’re going to make a credible argument against God, at least learn how to use grammar. I’m sick of idiotic arguments against something that is so obviously real. If you don’t want to believe, fine. Have fun in hell.
February 26th, 2009 at 10:24 am
@Zippy,
Let’s see: you talk about hell. So ou must be either a christian or a muslim. udging by your name, you must be a christian.
You believe in God and, being a christian, in Jesus as the way to salvation. Which would be heaven.
Now, if I remember correctly, one central teaching of Jesus was: love your enemy.
Obviously, you don’t like people that make arguments against religion and the existence of God. Also to me the reality of God is obvious, but that’s not the point here.
The point is that we can hardly call people that have a different view and make mistakes in their grammar ‘enemies’, can we ? And yet, even those agnostics you clearly don’t love, and you’re willing to announce eternity in hell for them without the minutest sign of sympathy.
Could it be that a main reason why so many people have an aversion to religion is….. people like you ?
Have fun in heaven.
February 26th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
I don’t like the idea of heaven and hell, in the immortal words of Jim Jeffries:
“Heaven is eternal bliss; i dont care how blissful something is, it’s eternal, you get used to it and you get f*cking bored”
Though i myself do not believe in the existence of some omnipotent “God” i can appreciate rational arguement for the existence of one.
But im afraid Zippy that simply saying that “God is so obviously real” does not constitute a logical argument.
In the end God is ultimatly unknowable we will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of a God because God is by definition beyond the understanding of man, all you can have is faith.
February 26th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
@403. Cernunnos hahahahaha good one!
February 26th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
so in this heaven of yours do we get to have sex? if not please put in a good word and send me to hell
February 26th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
@El_Karlo
Though I agree with you about Zippy, I disagree about God being unknowable and eternity being boring. The definition of God in Indian spirituality (called Sananthan Dharma, or the eternal religion; Hindu is a western invention) is Sat Chit Ananda, translated by the great yoga Yogananda as ‘ever existing, ever conscious, ever new bliss’. The important thing here is the ‘ever new’.
Yogananda came to the US in 1920 with the message that original christianity and original yoga are one and the same, and that in fact God can be known. Obviously not with our limited mind. But let’s not forget that it was Einstein that said that the rational mind must be the servant of the intuitive mind.
For what it’s worth: the practise of deep meditation has given me tastes of the mentioned bliss and ‘ever newness’ far far beyond anything I imagined possible. Raised as a catholic, I only started to understand the bible after studying yoga. Central here is Jesus’ statement that ‘the kingdom of God is within you’.
To anyone reading this: no matter how many books you’ve read or sermons you’ve heard; no matter how clever you are: before you have gone beyond the mind, you don’t know anything about religion.
(I say this in hope to make you curious, not to put you down)
All the best
Peter
March 5th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Astral Projection has been proven in the lab. They put objects in buildings miles away and told a patient at an asylum who claimed he could astral project to go there. There was a knife, an open book, and an apple. He told them what was there, and even the page number the book was open to.
March 5th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
417. Mark: Astral Projection has been proven in the lab…He told them what was there, and even the page number the book was open to.
****
~yawn~ Oh, yeah. I read that, as well, problem was, of course, there was no control, no way to quantify what was really taking place. In every test of this kind, everywhere, at every time, positive results have always been proven to be a trick, a lie. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out.
It does take someone young and naive to believe it.
March 9th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
418 Seque,
You are totally wrong here. Astral projection, out of body perception, telepathy, whatever you wnat to call it, has indeed been shown to exist many times. I intentionally don’t use the word ‘proven’. The problem with proving is that it needs to happen within a context that makes proving impossible.
Suppose you want to show that loving someone increases te likelyhood of havong the same thought at the same time. Ok, you show it. Now, here comes segue or any skeptic, and says: well that could be a fluke. So now we try it again, and you have to love each other exactly as much as last ime, OK ? Otherwise we break a fundamental scientific rule.
You see the probem ? The same goes for telepathy, that as a rule occurs when the brain is functioning on alpha level. How are you going to make your subject’s brain do that ?
To think that the millons of people that have witnessed and/or experienced telepathy, astral projection etc. were all crooks or idiots, isn’t that stretching it a lot ?
BTW: there are in fact studies that fit your requirements. Check out for instance cardiologist Pim van Lommel’s study into near death experiences and out of body sensory awareness, published in The Lancet in 2001. Totally factual and totally destroying all materialistic explanations. Supported by similar studies in the UK and the US. His book will be pubished worldwide next year. Brace yourself.
March 9th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
*from the road*
419. Peter: Yes, I’ll wait with baited breath. Not.
If it can’t be proven by the scientific method, it isn’t worthy of belief. Just because someone says something doesn’t make it so.
Okay, you give, as an example, two people deeply in love, having the same thought at the same time. BFD. Happens all the time with my husband and me. We’ll finish each others sentences. But there’s nothing spooky about it. We happen to have a lot in common. We have a lot of experiences in common. We have a lot of the same likes and dislikes. We are approximately equal in intelligence and our senses of humor are quite similar. All of these things make us good marriage partners, and obviously will lead, on occasion, to “having the same thought at the same time”.
I’m not wrong Peter, I just live in the real world, the world where science proves a claim, or discounts it. Not in your world, where anything goes, as long as one wants to believe.
March 10th, 2009 at 2:48 am
Seque, you live in the real world ? Well, have you noticed that more and more scientist are saying that, rather than we observing an objective reality with our faculties, we are crating our reality ?
and your post is a case in pint. You have the perception that I am one of those ‘believers’, and so your mind has painted me in a corner before you have digested what I am actually writing. Which was not that I consider having the same thought as your spouse as a miraculous event. I merely used the example to make a valid point about the difference between research into matter and research into consciousness.
That’s one. The other thing is that you, becasue of your obvious bias of believing you live in the real world, fail to notice that I refer to a scientific study published in The Lancet, as you may know one of the two leading medical journals and know for it’s high scientific standards. To you that is still ’somebody says something’. Why ? Becasue you don’t like what he says.
In short: you think you live in the real world, but you haven’t begun to put your too in the water, as far as I’m concerned. Your ‘real’ world is your own fantasy, just like orthodox religious believers live in a fantasy. And the accompanying arrogance is exactl the same too.
Of course you won’t ‘believe’ me. That’s OK.
March 10th, 2009 at 2:55 am
421. Peter : No need to attack other’s religious beliefs, please refrain, there’s no point either. Also, segue doesn’t seem very arrogant to me, so maybe cut out the personal attacks in future.
March 10th, 2009 at 3:12 am
Mark,
To state ‘I live in the real world and you don’t', counts as arrogant where I live. Where do you live ?
I am a religious person myself and did not mean to attack religion. Just this: since orthodox regious people of different religions and denominations believe very different things, it follows that certainly the majority and likely all of them live in a world of their own making. That is the parallel I meant to make. If I did so in an insensitive way, I’m sorry.
On the other hand, why would it be OK say it about an agnosticn and not about a religous one ? You didn’t rebuke Seque for saying the exact same thing about me.
March 10th, 2009 at 3:34 am
423. Peter : Australia, one of the least arrogant places – if not the least – on Earth. I didn’t get on segue’s case because he said it in a completely rational tone. Your post on the other hand hinted at losing control and getting abusive. I was just trying to politely remind you to keep it civil, it’s the way we all like it – except for Pi for same strange reason.
What religion do you follow for you to critisize “orthodox” religions?
March 10th, 2009 at 3:37 am
By the way, I’m not the guy who posted further up about Astral Projection. Just to clear up any confusion
March 10th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Mark,
That doesn’t make sense to me. Seque said it in a completely rational tone. And so it’s not arrogant ?
I don’t mean to draw a comparison between him or you and the nazis of course, but just to illustrate that the idea that rational isn’t an indicator of morality: the decision to destroy the Jews was made in a rational meeting in rational tones.
My point about orthodox believers I have made in my previous post. I don’t know what to add to that.
I don’t think in terms of orthodox religions. As far as I’m concerned, there is only one religion, because there is only one reality. So orthodox refers to how people approach their own religion and the ones that differ from it. Do they see different religions as different paths to the same goal, or as one path that leads to God and countless ones that lead nowhere? Do they take every word literally or do they seek the underlying wisdom and universal truths in holy books ?
Having reread my post 421, I must admit it is a little intense. I could say in defence that Seque asked for it, but that would be against my religion
March 10th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
420 Segue: WOW! I’m an atheist and even I found this comment harsh. If I were to use your argument Segue, there could be no such thing as love. Your marriage would also be a sham because the ceremony would have been performed before the eyes of a deity whose existence can not be empirically proven. Just a thought
March 10th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
426. Peter : I said that I didn’t comment on his post – which is what you asked – because he used a rational tone, we weren’t anywhere near talking about arrogance there so I think your argument is specious – not to mention Nazified… Shame on you….
You and I obviously don’t follow the same “religious” teachings because mine say – if you think he deserves it, give it to ‘im. But I’m glad to see that you can have a civil conversation with me despite not agreeing with you.
As far as I’m concerned with religions if they’re used purely for moral guidance they are perfectly acceptable and I don’t really think there is “only one”, just different ones that put things slightly differently. It’s up to us to pick one that sounds “good” and reasonable.
March 10th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Hey Peter!
Didn’t know you were arguing with Segue! Hey Segue, check out ‘The Top Ten Incorrupt Corpses’ list…me and Peter have been back and forth on this issue for about 3 months! But it’s been fun:D