Andy Warhol once said that every man would have 15 minutes of fame – unfortunately for the 10 people on this list, that fame came at a high price – their life. These are people who would undoubtedly prefer to have lived without fame than lose their lives to achieve immortality in history.
Pasqualino Antonio “Leno” LaBianca and his wife Rosemary LaBianca were victims of the Manson Family murders famously known as the Tate LaBianca murders. Charles Manson, the leader of the Manson “family,” orchestrated the murders for the sake of Helter Skelter, an apocalyptic war he believed would arise from tension over racial relations between blacks and whites. The four “family” members who had participated in the Tate murders, Charles “Tex” Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel and Linda Kasabian, were again summoned by Manson along with Leslie Van Houten and Steve Grogan aka Clem Tufts. Manson ordered Kasabian to cruise the neighborhoods of Los Angeles, in search of potential victims, before settling on the home of the LaBiancas.
Sometime during the early morning hours of August 10, 1969, Manson family members entered the LaBianca house and murdered the couple. The girls wrote messages in Leno’s blood. “Death to pigs” and “Rise” were written on the living room wall, and “Healter Skelter” [sic] was written on the refrigerator. After the murders, the family members remained at the house. Some ate food from the LaBianca’s refrigerator, played with the couple’s dogs and showered before hitchhiking back to the Spahn Ranch.
Mary Jo Kopechne was an American teacher, secretary and administrator, who died in a car accident in Chappaquiddick Island while being driven by United States Senator Ted Kennedy. On July 18, 1969, Kopechne attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island, off the coast of Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts, held in honor of the “Boiler Room Girls.” This affectionate name was given to the six young women who had been vital to the late Robert Kennedy’s presidential campaign and who had subsequently closed up his files and campaign office after his assassination.
Kopechne left the party at 11:15 p.m. with Kennedy after he allegedly offered to drive her to catch the last ferry back to the Katama Shores Motor Inn in Edgartown where she was staying. Kennedy stated, on his way to the ferry crossing back to Edgartown, that he accidentally turned right onto Dike Road – a dirt road – instead of bearing sharply left on Main Street. After proceeding one-half mile, he descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge set obliquely to the unlit road. Kennedy drove the 1967 Oldsmobile Delmont 88 belonging to him, off the side of Dyke Bridge, and the car overturned into Poucha Pond. Kennedy extricated himself from the submerged car but Kopechne died.
J. D. Tippit was a police officer with the Dallas, Texas Police Department who, according to numerous witnesses and multiple government investigations including the Warren Commission, was shot and killed by Lee Harvey Oswald after Tippit stopped Oswald following the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
At approximately 1:11–1:14 p.m. on the day of the assassination, Tippit was driving slowly in an easterly direction on East 10th Street in Oak Cliff. Tippit pulled up alongside Oswald, who was walking in the same direction. Oswald then walked over to Tippit’s car, and apparently exchanged words with him. Tippit opened the door on the left side and started to walk around the front of his car. As he reached the front wheel on the driver’s side, Oswald drew a revolver and fired several shots in rapid succession, hitting Tippit three times in the chest. He then walked up to Tippit’s fallen body and shot him directly in the head, killing him instantly.
John Morrison Birch was an American Military Intelligence Officer and a Baptist Missionary in World War II who was shot by armed supporters of the Communist Party of China. Some politically conservative groups within the United States consider him to be a martyr and the first victim of the Cold War. The John Birch Society, formed thirteen years after his death, is named in honor of him.
Birch is known today mainly by the society that bears his name. His name is on the bronze plaque of a World War II monument at the top of Coleman Hill Park overlooking downtown Macon, along with the names of other Macon men who lost their lives while serving in the military. Birch has a plaque on the sanctuary of the First Southern Methodist Church of Macon, which was built on land given by his family, purchased with the money John sent home monthly. Pictured above is Robert Welch, chief organizer of the John Birch society.
Edward Donald Slovik was a private in the United States Army during World War II and the only American soldier to be executed for desertion since the American Civil War. Although over twenty-one thousand soldiers were given varying sentences for desertion during World War II—including forty-nine death sentences—only Slovik’s death sentence was carried out. Slovik was charged with desertion to avoid hazardous duty and court martialed on November 11, 1944. The prosecutor, Captain John Green, presented witnesses to whom Slovik had stated his intention to “run away.” The defense counsel, Captain Edward Woods, announced that Slovik had elected not to testify. The nine officers of the court found Slovik guilty and sentenced him to death.
On December 9, Slovik wrote a letter to the Supreme Allied commander, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, pleading for clemency. However, desertion had become a problem, and Eisenhower confirmed the execution order on December 23. The execution by firing squad was carried out at 10:04 a.m. on January 31, 1945, near the village of Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines. Slovik was twenty-four years old.
Horst Ludwig Wessel (October 9, 1907 – February 23, 1930) was a German Nazi activist who was made a posthumous hero of the Nazi movement following his violent murder in 1930. He was the author of the lyrics to the song “Die Fahne hoch” (“Raise High the Flag”), usually known as Horst-Wessel-Lied (“the Horst Wessel Song”), which became the Nazi Party anthem and Germany’s official co-national anthem from 1933 to 1945. The song was banned along with all other Nazi symbols in 1945, and both the lyrics and tune remain illegal in Germany to this day. The clip above shows the song being sung at the Nuremberg Congress.
John Luther “Casey” Jones was an American railroad engineer from Jackson, Tennessee who worked for the Illinois Central Railroad (IC). On April 30, 1900 he alone was killed when his passenger train collided with a stopped freight train at Vaughan, Mississippi on a foggy and rainy night. His dramatic death trying to stop his train and save lives made him a railroad icon who became immortalized in a popular ballad sung by his friend Wallace Saunders, an African American engine wiper for the IC. Due to the enduring popularity of this classic song, he has been the world’s most famous railroad engineer for over a century.
was one of five people killed in the Boston Massacre in Boston, Massachusetts. He has been frequently named as the first martyr of the American Revolution and is the only person killed in the Boston Massacre whose name is commonly remembered. Although little is known for certain about Attucks, including his ethnicity, the possibility that he was African American or Native American has elevated him to an important symbolic status in U.S. history.
In the early 19th century, as the Abolitionist movement gained momentum in Boston, Attucks was lauded as an example of a black American who played a heroic role in the history of the United States. Because Crispus Attucks may also have had Wampanoag Indian ancestors, his story also holds special significance for many Native Americans.
James Bulger was the victim of abduction and murder. His killers were two 10-year-old boys, Jon Venables and Robert Thompson. The murder took place in Merseyside, England. James disappeared from the New Strand Shopping Centre, where he had been with his mother Denise, on 12 February 1993 and his mutilated body was found on a railway line at Bootle on 14 February. As the circumstances surrounding the death became clear, tabloid newspapers compared the killers with Myra Hindley and Ian Brady who had committed the Moors Murders during the 1960s. They denounced the people who had seen Bulger but not realized the trouble he was in. The railway embankment upon which his body had been discovered was flooded with hundreds of bunches of flowers.
Nathan Hale was an officer for the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. Widely considered America’s first spy, he volunteered for an intelligence-gathering mission, but was captured by the British. He is best remembered for his speech before being hanged following the Battle of Long Island, in which he reportedly said, “I only regret that I have but one life to give my country.” Hale has long been considered an American hero and, in 1985, he was officially designated the state hero of Connecticut.
This article is licensed under the GFDL because it contains quotations from Wikipedia.
JayArr – indeed. We’ll never learn…
Jono #94 – Brittanie Cecil’s case, that is similar to people having strokes after having their necks cracked by chiroprators.
Jbjr #102 – I think James Dean was considered famous before of his car accident death. He was only at the beginning of his acting career.
Nikki #109 – I completely agree with you about Anne Frank! She would never have been famous without the diary! Would she still be famous if she hadn’t died, but the diary published?
astraya: Re: Andy Warhol. By the time he died, he couldn’t have told you *what* he’d said. Or when. Or why. He hadn’t even been producing his own artwork for years.
Sad. Sad. Sad.
I read a lot of true crime, and when I read the story of James Bulgar and the most recent articles about his killers, I can honestly say it is “chilling”. I have heard that word used to describe stories, but now I really feel it.
What about Martin Luther King, right before his death he was extremely unpopular, his methods of peace and not taking violent action was not getting much results. But when he died was when civil rights movements started snowballing
Paulb: MLK might have been extremely unpopular, but he famous.
I’ve just been doing calculations. Assuming 6 billion people, allotting 15 minutes is going to take 1.5 billion hours = 62.5 million days = approx 171,232 years assuming that only one person is famous at a time. Even allowing for 1,000 famous people at a time, it is still going to take 171 years to get through everyone, in which time most of us have died. We’d better get started. My time starts … now!
I was once a world record holder. Yes, really. I was once the world’s youngest person!
He was famous.
Time’s up (and due to a connection problem I may have got a minute or two more). Damn. That was nowhere near as much fun as I thought it would be.
Brittanie Cecil’s case, that is similar to people having strokes after having their necks cracked by chiroprators.
Ernmas – perhaps; though the bad press given to chiropractors in this regard does seem somewhat dubious.
Remember that the vast majority of people go to a chiropractor because they are unwell; some of the symptoms they are suffering (various aches and pains) can be symptomatic of existing and undiagnosed pulmonary issues. That is to say, maybe they would have died/had a stroke in any case…?
segue – I agree with your comments about Warhol.
Personally, I always had an empathy with Warhol as a person, but I thought his art was grossly overrated (even the earlier works). I thought I was alone on this last point, until I read articles by the renowned (Australian) art critic Robert Hughes who knew Warhol. Whilst Hughes is not wholly negative on Warhol, he is astounded at the “collect Warhol” mania amongst wealthy individual collectors.
How about Thomas Becket, Anne Boleyn, Mary Queen of Scots?
Or, much more recently, Ron Goldman, along with Nicole Brown Simpson?
Also, King Harold at the Battle of Hastings (the one who allegedly died after being shot through the eye with an arrow) as portrayed in the Bayeux Tapestry.
Not to mention all of the Christian saints?
Good list though. The picture of James Bulger is heartbreakingly beautiful. His killers should never have seen the light of day again.
Just hearing the name James Bulger makes my gut twist in anger… He would have been 18 this year…
on another note, apologies for annoying people with my first comment… after having spent 2 weeks reading every single list on this site im came to 2 conclusions… number 1, that i love this site and should immediately register myself as a user, so i did and thought the first comment would be a cheeky way to intro myself to everyone… and number 2, purely because of the brilliant idea of creating listverse, i think i have a teensy crush on jfrater…
anyways… its nice to meet you all!
Tigerlilly: How “non-famous” were an archbishop, a queen consort, a queen and a king during their lifetimes?
AniH: Welcome. There’s a queue for people with crushes of various sizes on jfrater. Have you seen http://listverse.com/about?
astraya: wish you hadnt told me about that… im not gonna be able to get any work done now… gonna get fired for sure!
what about lupe valez. all she wanted was to be remembered
she planned everything. does hair, make up flowers around the bed. everything. she takes the overdose and lays down on the bed imagining how beautiful she will look on the front of all the papers the next day. unfortunately the pills don’t set well with her last meal. she stumbles into the loo to throw up but trips goes head first into the toilet and that is how they found her.
it didn’t turn out as she planned but it worked out, all she wanted was to be remembered
Hi astraya,
Re: Becket, Boleyn, Harold et al:
Of course they’d still be known historically, but they are rather more ‘famous’ for the infamous ways in which they died, wouldn’t you say?
Adam Walsh?
129. kiwiboi: Yes, I’ve read the Hughes and agree with him. Oddly so, perhaps, as I actually knew Warhol, though quite peripherally and very early.
I had a strange late adolescence.
136. Ellycat: Adam Walsh?
****
In order not to embarrass yourself, it helps to actually read the posts above your own before posting.
Adam Walsh has been suggested more than once.
#128 kiwiboi – I would disagree with the bad press that chiropractors get over this problem. People go to the chiropractor for reasons other than a stroke symptom (slurred speech, paralyzed on one side, etc). I also think it is a matter of a safe way to crack the neck. The force of someone else applying the manipulation. Ugh!
I personally wouldn’t ever have someone else crack my neck. I have arthritis there and my first symptom was my neck cracking when I tried to stretch it! Because of the disk sitting so close to my spine it is dangerous for it to crack. BTW – my doctor was the first to notify me of this when going through PT for my neck. He told me not to have them crack it.
Ernmas – actually, I’m not sure we’ll ever get a definitive answer on this one. My comments are based (for what it is worth) on personal experience. I pinched a nerve in my lower shoulder earlier this year, to the extent that I couldn’t move my arm, couldn’t lie down etc etc. And I’m a guy who is never sick and has probably visited a doctor maybe twice in the past 20 years.
Anyway, a woman at work insisted that I should see a chiropractor rather than a regular doctor (based on her own experiences). Realising that neck-cracking would likely be a part of the “cure”, I was a little apprehensive. So, given that my work is largely quant *****ysis in the financial markets, the first thing I did was research the statistics pertaining to “death-by-chiropractor”.
Long story short…I could find no statistical significance that gave me any cause for concern; my own unscientific view is that these exceedingly (*exceedingly*) rare cases of chiro patients dying subsequent to a neck-cracking is that these people already had a serious health issue that was very likely not understood to be life-threatening. A little further research found one or two orthodox medical practioners also (somewhat grudgingly) conceding this same point.
So, a purely anecdotal *****ysis – but I’m still here
BTW…the chiro (without any prompting or signs of anxiety on my part) was most careful to have me relaxed an correctly positioned prior to the neck cracking. And, I have to say…though it wasn’t a particularly enjoyable experience (though it didn’t hurt) I definitely gained some additional range of motion in my neck that I haven’t had for some years.
Did the chiro heal me? Well, after having said all of the above…I don’t think so. Much as I enjoyed the wonderful *****s from the nice young Finnish chiro (female), I think that time was ultimately the healer (though, to be fair, she also thought that this would likely be the case).
I think it’s amusing that there are some people who, seeing a name unfamiliar with them, thinks then that *nobody* has ever heard of this person.
Perhaps it’s smart to do a little research before saying ‘but that person is not this or that’….
FWIW – I’d heard of everyone on this list, and you can do another whole list of names, in fact, I imagine such a list isn’t far away…
Tigerlily – Of course. My point was that archbishops, queens, kings etc are famous in their own time and immediately afterwards, no matter how history does or doesn’t remember them.
Can anyone except a history buff name the previous archbishop of Canterbury (to Becket), Henry VII’s queen consort, the previous monarch of Scotland (to Mary) or the previous king of England (to Harold)? I can’t.
Anne Boleyn gets far more coverage than Catherine Howard. In fact I had to check Catherine’s name to make sure I’d got it right.
perhaps archduke ferdinand should be on the list?
i mean… his death DID trigger a world war
segue:
Well, baseless attack you have there. Not only have I just finished a round-the-world-trip, but I certainly do not have an issue with knowing history. Don’t even try and imply that. How rude.
These people on this list, are just not very famous at all. Furthermore, they’re not entirely famous for their DEATH. The act which kills them should be their sole claim to fame to be on this list. The names I submitted fulfill this claim, and are actually rather famous. Or at the least will acquire an “Oh that’s the guy who did that?”
So please, stick to your job and remember that listverse is not the place for baseless false comments.
segue, what you said to juno was way out of line. just because you happen to know about one particular thing and someone else dosent does not make them completely oblivious to the entire subject at hand.
Just because i dont know most of the people on the list does not make me young, or un-educated. What if i just happen to not give a crap about american history? i mean, the world does not revolve around america you know.
How about Terri Schiavo?
144. Jono & 145. Du: You are absolutely correct.
I stand properly chastised. I was way out of line, and I sincerely apologize.
segue:
in MY humble opinion you were NOT out of line, in fact.
Thank you, Randall.
I have no emotional defenses today, I am naked before my enemy.
segue:
Nah. We have you covered.
and i THANK you for your most sincere apology.
Now let us move away from such petty arguments and back to the topic at hand.
I am sure it wasent just Americans who were famous because they died. Let us see if we cant extract some of those people from hiding.
I agree with Randall, segue. You didn’t cross any lines. Jono was complaining that the list was either too antiquated or not dumbed down enough. I feel that anyone that wants to put themselves out there like that is cruising for some flaming. Now, there are lines around that- no need to call them names or insult their family/mother/friends/country of origin. But you didn’t go there. Jono started out by saying the list was crap because his/her favorite names didn’t appear.
82. August Grey: *blinkblink* Oh, wow. I remember that guy. He hooked up with April in the movie.
Du:
Instead of playing the scold, and then criticizing the list for too much American content, suggest some alternative names.
Jono:
I’m sorry, but you did deserve a bit of what you got from segue. Your latest post just serves to reinforce that. I sincerely hope you got something OUT of the “round the world trip” you just took, but you clearly DO have a problem with knowing history.
The statement “These people on this list, (sic) are just not very famous at all” is ludicrous. What’s your definition of fame? I think you confuse “fame” with “celebrity.”
The “Tate/La Bianca Murders” is how the Manson Family killings have been known ever since the case against Manson and his followers was made. SURELY the Manson killings are famous—it’s a basic bit of cultural knowledge in regards to the Sixties–not essential knowledge, but basic.
Mary Jo Kopechne’s name is WELL known due to the circumstances of her death, in being attached to Ted Kennedy’s. Again, it’s a basic piece of culture from that period—not essential–little of this is—but WIDELY known. ANYONE with ANY standard awareness of the history of the last 50 years of this country should know her name and the significance of it. The incident destroyed Ted Kennedy’s hopes for the presidency, in effect ending the dynastic ambitions of the Kennedy family for good. Hardly trivial or esoteric.
I could in fact go ON AND ON, and the answer would be the same for each of these choices. They are FAMED individuals in history, whose deaths turned on key events.
But your next statement was even sillier: “Furthermore, they’re not entirely famous for their DEATH. The act which kills them should be their sole claim to fame to be on this list.”
WHAT? I have to wonder if you even READ the list in the slightest—or read that statement before you posted it! EACH AND EVERY *ONE* of these people were UTTERLY OBSCURE, common folk with NO claim to fame of ANY kind during their lives, and the SOLE reason their names became ensconced in the zeitgeist, if you will, is BECAUSE of their deaths and the CIRCUMSTANCES of their deaths. We would NEVER have heard of the La Biancas, Kopechne, Tippit, Slovik, John Birch, Wessel, Jones, Crispus Attucks, Bulger or Hale if NOT for their untimely deaths! They were, and would have been–but for their deaths–utterly unknown.
No, Jono—your lack of basic knowledge of cultural events is showing. I wouldn’t expect everyone to know the names Eddy Slovik or JD Tippit or James Bulger… and perhaps not Wessel or even the La Biancas if we pushed matters. (Nevertheless, they’re all still very well known and if anyone professes to have even a working knowledge of historically recent events, they should know these names). But Nathan Hale? Crispus Attucks? Casey Jones (a folk legend!) John Birch? (The John Birch society is a WELL known ultra-right wing kook organization and HAS been for the last 50+ years). Come now. To confess ignorance of these people is to confess ignorance of history. Pure and simple.
Jono:
A follow up, something I forgot to add to my previous post.
You referenced the following names in your original comment as superior choices to the ones presented here.
Daniel Pearl – journalist murdered by Islamic extremists
Lindow Man – better known as one of the “Bog People” discovered in, if I recall correctly, the Flemish part of Belgium.
Louis Slotin – Physicist from the Manhattan Project, killed by an overdose of radiation.
Jennifer Strange and Brittanie Cecil – I frankly had to look these two up—but recalled their deaths as soon I found them online. Strange was killed by water intoxication during a radio competition, Cecil died when hit by a puck at a hockey game.
Oofty Goofty – another I had to look up—an obscure vaudvillian who, as far as I could tell, was NOT famous on account of his death.
Now… the interesting thing here is, you pass over truly HISTORICAL figures (Nathan Hale, Kopechne, John Birch, etc.) whose deaths EITHER left an almost immediate stamp on HISTORY in some form or other, or whose deaths actually INFLUENCED history directly… you pass over these people for…. people such as a woman killed at a hockey game by a puck, and a woman who died from drinking too much water.
The pattern I see here is reaching for *celebrity* over actual historical personage. (It’s also interesting that you reached, for the most part, for the trivial and obscure over actual well-known, culture-basic names like Hale’s and Attucks’, etc. which suggests to me that you are one of these people who tries to show off one’s knowledge of esoterica as a substitution for deeper awareness of the “culture base.”) Let’s examine it more closely:
Daniel Pearl: a tragedy, but his death is a footnote. It changed nothing (except perhaps outraging people for a time–but outrage is quickly extinguished in our jaded era—and scaring his fellow journalists). So too are some of the deaths on the original list–footnotes–but there are footnotes and there are footnotes. The fact is that every single person’s death on the original list–with maybe only a couple exceptions–had some kind of historical resonance BEYOND their deaths. Pearl’s did not and will not.
The same can be said for Strange and Cecil… small tragedies, yes… but historically significant? Not in the least. Fame, in an historical sense? No. (certainly not of any long-lasting kind… there’s no doubt they will not be remembered a hundred years hence). A brief kind of twisted, sad celebrity? Perhaps yes. But that’s all.
Slotin is a better suggestion–but hardly MORE fitting than the names originally presented.
As for Lindow Man—in an indirect sense one might argue that his death is what made him famous… but in fact it is the discovery of his corpse, so very well preserved, that explains the fame of this individual whose true name we’ll never know–as well as the manner of his death, evidently as a sacrifice. Yes, his death is connected to the center of this—but in actuality, one can no more say that Lindow Man is “famous” because of his death than any other well-preserved mummy found anywhere in the world. What actually makes these mummies key finds–besides the nature of their deaths, if that is unique (Lindow Man’s was)–is that they ARE finds–they are preserved remains from a period of time when we ordinarily do NOT get preserved remains.
In this sense, Lindow Man is also a good suggestion–but also not as DIRECTLY applicable to the subject of the list as the original choices… and certainly no MORE famed. The same could be said for the Ice Man, Lindow Man’s Alpine cousin, as it were.
Frankly, I think it’s a slap in the face of the family of David Pearl to suggest that he’s only famous because of his death. It made him *more* famous, but he was already somewhat known. He wrote for several newspapers, including the Wall Street Journal. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that David Pearl was more famous than anyone commenting to this list BEFORE he was beheaded.
Randal> points at 143
suggesting names even before the whole series of disagreements began
155. Cedestra: Right. He was a well known journalist with a bright future.
Randall:
Again, you completely missed the point. Not only did I say I knew of some of the stories, which you ignored and took an out-of-context quote to base your fallacious argument on.
Again, note the footnote. The Warhol quote doesn’t bear any significance?
Furthermore, I don’t even want to bother arguing more with you anymore. If I remember correctly, you never liked me to begin with. Your attacks are based on personal preference, not genuine intellectual differences. I presented a valid argument; that many of the names are not properly famous: Horst Wessel and Mary Jo Kopechne being the main two grievances.
Jono:
I missed no points, nor were my arguments “fallacious.” You, on the other hand, prattled a lot of nonsense and clearly don’t like being called out on it.
“Your attacks are based on personal preference, not genuine intellectual differences.”
Hardly. I don’t even remember you–but obviously you have some grievance against me. One might say, then, that your accusation should be turned around to reflect on YOU. At any rate, I presented a very cogent and reasoned argument for why you were incorrect here.
“I presented a valid argument;”
I beg to differ. Your “argument,” such as it was, made little or no sense–calling for the replacement of names on this list like Mary Jo Kopechne with someone like Cecil–is absurd. I detailed why.
“that many of the names are not properly famous: Horst Wessel and Mary Jo Kopechne being the main two grievances.”
And again, you fail to explain what you mean by “properly famous.” Horst Wessel is a key figure (albeit a trivial one) in the *cultural* history of Nazi Germany. I wouldn’t expect the average guy on the street to know the name–but I bet a lot of Europeans do, particularly Germans–and certainly ANYONE who knows ANYTHING of the history of Nazi Germany and WWII knows the name.
As for Kopechne–you’re so far out on a limb there that it’s flat out ridiculous. I’ve already stated why.
What about Kitty Genovese and the Black Dahlia?
Kiwiboi – my original point wasn’t that people necessarily died from having their necks cracked, it was the fact that doing so could jar or disrupt the artery in the neck and cause a stroke. Ms. Cecil’s incident was a severe case due to the hockey puck’s speed hitting her and snapping her neck back.
I’m sorry your pinched nerve hasn’t been cured adequately. I can commiserate with you on the pain you feel. Some time and little strain on the injury should help heal it. Good luck!
kiwiboi: re your pinched nerve. See a neurologist.
This is an area of personal expertise.
my original point wasn’t that people necessarily died from having their necks cracked, it was the fact that doing so could jar or disrupt the artery in the neck and cause a stroke. Ms. Cecil’s incident was a severe case due to the hockey puck’s speed hitting her and snapping her neck back.
Ernmas – it would be foolish to deny the possibility. But, I would reiterate the same point I made earlier – it seems that where there has been potential/possible culpability on the part of a chiro (ie. when a patient has apparently suffered a disorder or death as a result of treatment) there’s a likelihood that there was already an existing, maybe latent, malady.
Do you know of studies that suggest something different? Given the barely disguised disdain that some of the medical profession seems to have for the chiro profession, there is bound to be something.
As an aside, I also did a little quick-and-dirty study on the Cecil incident, because I hadn’t heard of it before. Here’s the view of the Coroner (a Dr Lewis) who performed the autopsy :
“Lewis said he consulted with other pathologists on the rarity of the injury. He said that a fellow pathologist had not encountered a similar injury and death in more than 25 years as a doctor.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/news/2002/03/20/puck_death_ap/
Oh…and thanks for the good wishes about my own pinched nerve. Actually, I get virtually no trouble at all from it now. Not 100% better…but at least 98%
segue – thanks for the advice. Actually, I didn’t really consider this as a first option, but would definitely have done so in due course.
From a practical perspective, the chiro offered to see me within a couple of hours of calling her; she even stayed late just for me.
But, I’m all better now, anyways
Kiwiboi – Okay, here goes. Check out this report from WebMD. I couldn’t find the original report on the study done by the University of California, but I don’t have much time to research it right now. Other sites also reference the University’s study. It apparently was also in Consumer Reports in August of 2005.
There is an increased risk of stroke from neck manipulation, proven in studies. I agree that it is not massive and death is even less likely to occur, but the potential still is in existence.
I am glad one of us actually has relief from their problems (even if you still have 2% left to go).
Rememer that Mary Jo Kopechne, otherwise known as Teddy Kennedy’s victim, drowned. The coroner’s report stated that Mary Jo Kopechne had water in her lungs. The soon-to-be-dead creep ran off and left her to drown.
astraya, thats pretty clever, i held the same world record
Gosh, wow! What a coincidence! I wonder how many others there are!!
Jono,
Not sure exactly what your problem with Randall is but I find it hard to see anything out of context in the way Randall took your first sentence.
*Good idea for a list, but I mean, I don’t know any of these people’s names.*
Unless of course you did not mean that you knew none of the names which leaves me wondering why you therefore wrote it.
If however out of context means this *I knew about 2 from the list from the stories, but that was it.* from your second sentence then you really need to sort out your useage of the English language.
For myself I recognised and was immediately able to recall the rough details of only two of the names, whilst recognising another three names but not knowing a connection re their death. And the La Biancas I recognised as soon as I read the item. However from your your list I only recogniised the one name immediately (Pearl). Even after reading Randals quick explanations I still do not recognise ANY of the others. So which list is famous.
BTW The two I immediately recognised name and events, James Bulger and …Mary Jo Kopechne. And that is living in NZ aged 9 years old at the time of her death. I still remember the stories and furore over the attempts to cover up Teddys part in it.
Cheers
Lee
Ernmas – yes, I’d seen that study. But, as I’m sure you noticed, it involved only 51 patients of which only 14 even remembered getting their necks manipulated. Note, too, that the article quotes a clinical professor of neurology at the University of California, who says “their evidence that spinal manipulation is a major cause of stroke is weak.”
But to put it into perspective, the odds of suffering a stroke as a result of chiro manipulation are variously quoted as being between 400,000:1 and 5,000,000:1. Either way, these odds are statistically insignificant. For perspective, lets assume the worst; that the odds are 400,000:1. These are similar odds to you getting hit by lightning in any given year.
However, Ernmas, I don’t think we are disagreeing in any material way. By definition, the probability of damage occuring as a result of a spinal or neck manipulation must be higher than if you don’t have the manipulation.
This is my first time posting on this website, which I have visited countless times. I just want to throw out the name Nick Markowitz. He was killed over his brother’s drug money and they made a movie “Alpha Dog” out of it. Sad story.
Cool list, but john Birch looks older then 50, but he’s dead at age 27? (see date of birth and death)
I think Matthew Shepard should’ve been on the list. No one knew who he was until he was murdered, and now his name is familiar to people like me, who live on the other side of the world. He fits in the list criteria 100%.
how about Vic Morrow?he died before i was born but i think he should be mentioned.So should the two kids killed with him.Decapitation is not a nice way to go
Good list. Dunno more than half of people in the list though. I know James Bulger, read about his story in a crime stories site about a year ago. It made me really sad, his story.
emmitt till, the black dahlia, and jonbenet ramsey could all be honorable mentions, but the latter is probably the only one known outside the usa.
princess diana was already hugely popular before her death. maybe alot of people abroad only saw her as prince charles ex-wife, but i remember her being extremely popular in the usa as a celebrity and for donating to aids charities. her death maybe controversial, but it hardly made her famous. after all it was her ‘celebrity’ status that had the paparazzi following her thus causing the wreck. duh.
as for selena; i doubt many people outside of texas knew who she was before or after her death. she was a tejano singer and tejano is indigenous to texas, not the rest of the usa, let alone the world.
as for lindow man, not that many people are familiar with the bog men and putting someone on the list simply b/c their body was found by someone doesn’t make them famous due to their death. by that reasoning we could list the ‘tomb of the unknown soldier’.
to #125, Paulb:
how could you say that martin luther king wasn’t famous until his death?! the montgomery bus boycott, the march on washington, ‘i have a dream’ speech?! thousands of people don’t gather at the washington monument to hear a speech by someone they’ve never heard of. television stations don’t broadcast speeches made by anyone. and there’s the fact that he was ‘assassinated’. that word specifically means that the person killed was of great importance and popularity and he was assassinated because of his importance to the civil rights movement.
Ted Kennedy repulses me.
‘Nuff said.
This list was published verbatim in the Book of Lists II. Plagiarism no?
Jlerner: if you read the sources and search the text of the items, you will find that Wikipedia was the source and hence it is under the GFDL.