Subscribe to ListverseYour View: Who is the Most Evil Man?
- Published March 13, 2008 - 472 Comments
We have done a number of lists on the site regarding evil people and they have always given rise to much debate, so it seemed like a good idea for our latest “Your View”. Tell us (and please give reasons) who the most evil man to have ever lived (living or dead) is.
Who is the most evil man in history?
My answer is Joseph Stalin. The reason is that his actions lead to more deaths than any other dictator in history. Stalin took a thriving nation and turned it in a nation of terrified people – the effects of his reign are still apparent today and it will be many years before Russia is truly restored to its previous greatness.
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March 13th, 2008 at 8:43 am
i agree w/ stalin
March 13th, 2008 at 8:44 am
I think this one was a bit easy…. Jfrater, you’re right about Stalin… all you have to do is look at the Stats
March 13th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Hirohito was a nasty sob too. He forced people off of cliffs to their death.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:52 am
hitler only because im learning a lot about what he did and seeing pictures and videos
March 13th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Glenn Danzig
HANDS DOWN
March 13th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Michael Moore
March 13th, 2008 at 9:05 am
While all these leaders are indeed evil, I think there’s a special place reserved in hell for those men who can stalk another man and kill them one on one. For me, the most evil man in recent times that I’ve heard of is Richard Kuklinski, known as The Iceman. It’s not certain how many people he’s killed, but to look at him and hear him speak makes chills run up and down my spine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kuklinski
March 13th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Oh, sorry about the previous comment, I thought this list was “Fattest Douchebag Loudmouth Ass-Clown”
March 13th, 2008 at 9:07 am
let’s not forget about Mao
March 13th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Reinhard Heydrich. I don’t know how he slept at night. Granted he wasn’t a dictator or head of state but still.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Is it a competition?
Stalin or Hitler of course… if you purely on the numbers of people killed and/or who had their lives utterly ruined, then Stalin “wins” out. But then Hitler gets points for planning and executing a brutal world war and deliberate genocide that together killed millions.
But then Mao and Lenin were no saints either. Neither was Beria or Himmler. Pol Phot. Idi Amin.
Let’s hope we saw the last of such bastards with the end of the 20th century.
And bucslim… I DO hope you were joking.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:11 am
I think Hitler wins this one easily. He brought us WWII and killed 10 million civilians (6 million jews, the rest of them were most pollish and irish). The UN, NATO and a number of other international policy are his credit.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Stalin is easily the most recongized, Hitler did some rpetty bad stuff himself… but I also think Vlad the Impaler should be on this list somewhere.
He was the inspiration for an new kind of monster: the vampire.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Paul Benardo he didn’t kill millions but he was a evil nonetheless.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Tom Cruise
George W
Tie
March 13th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Why are we forgetting about Pol Pot, Baby Doc, and Kim Jong-il? I’m not saying they’re necessarily MORE evil than Hitler or Stalin or Mao but, as part of this discussion, they’ve gotta be up there.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Not sure I’d have Caligula over to drink a brew and watch the game. He was pretty nasty. He might have not hustled like Joe, but he watched plenty of people being tortured in a variety of grotesque and twisted ways simply for his enjoyment.
I don’t think I’d want to be Jewish and have the Inquisitors show up at my door with a welcoming gift either.
“Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is suprise, that’s all, just surprise!”
March 13th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Hitler in my opinion, don’t know much about Stalin. Whomever mentioned Vlad the Impaler, good thinking. It is sad to think but there were enough sorry SOB’s to go on and on with this.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Jim Jones. I’ve read books about what he did. He was pure evil.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:43 am
probably one of the medieval popes
March 13th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Stalin was a larger murder, but the one big thing Hitler has on him is generations later Hitler is still negatively leading people into bigotry and hate, that is still leading to murder’s and destroyed lives today.
Nobody is looking back at Stalin and still trying to fulfill his visions.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:50 am
If it wasn’t for Stalin, Russia and thus Europe, would have lost the War.
He took a country that was quite literally in the feudal system and made them a world arms and space superpower in 30 years.
For those reasons alone he can not be considered the most evil, just because he was inadvertantly responsible for a large amounts of deaths. You would have to find someone with NO redeeming features, and for that I would have to say either Joseph Mengele or Pol Pot.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Poi Pot wiped a greater percentage of his people off the earth than Stalin; Stalin wins on numbers.
Except for wiping out the Human Race, it’s hard to go lower then these low life scum.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Stalin is incredibly evil, I agree with that, but so was Mao Zedong.
My view is that Ayatollah Khomeini is, while perhaps not “more evil” than Hitler, Stalin, or Mao, but is certainly the scariest.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Pol Pot should win for the utter pointless murderous destruction he has brought upon his own people.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Actually, maybe he [Khomeini] was. He forced women into bondage (they were much freer under the Shah; in fact, the Shah was comparatively liberal against Khomeini), and felt it glorious for people to die for God/Allah [absolutely nothing]. His policies, according to my Myth & Folklore professor, followed the Koran “very closely.” For more than a decade, he terrorized his people as a representative of the Prophet Mohammed (whom I do not like; even more than Jesus). Perhaps what scares me most about Iran under Khomeini is that I see us becoming it’s Christian counterpart…
March 13th, 2008 at 10:07 am
you can’t forget the “prophet” mohammed. that douche bag brought us the greatest plague our planet has ever seen.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:19 am
There is no way to say who is the most evil. Stalin had the most opportunity, which is why he was the worst. If Hitler or Pol pot or Amin or so many other pieces of scum had the amount of resources and people around them that Stalin did then they would have done just as bad. Pol pot could only kill a million people cause there was only that many he could kill. give him the USSR and he would rack up even more. same argument for any other dictator scum out there. for all we know the most evil man in history was a person no one knows or heard of, but he was never thought of as evil because he was never given the opportunity that Stalin had to exploit his twisted agenda.
i say Stalin is #1 because of his body count only and not cause of other things. after all Hitler would have loved to do more but he just didnt have the power to.
True scum are all the same. its just all about opportunities.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:20 am
God
March 13th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Whoever invented religion.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:25 am
george w. bush.
but he is not evil…. he is just stupid.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Wait, I withdraw my comment. The most evil man in history is Randall.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:26 am
JJ and Tequilajinx
When I saw the title I knew there would be arses like youn’s that would make utterly stupid remarks.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:30 am
That douche who took over Cambodia (is that one Pol Pot? I can’t remember), killed people who wore glasses, separated families, destroyed anything related to Cambodia’s history or culture, and put people to work in fields until they died from overwork and malnutrition.
As far as I’m concerned, Stalin and Hitler take second and third place, for while they’re both incredibly evil, and killed millions of people, they also did some things that were beneficial for their countries. With Pol Pot, it was ALL bad.
But on another note, there are definitely some major contenders from Ancient Greece and Rome, although unfortunately my memory isn’t so fresh on those matters. And I suppose they guy who invented the nuclear bomb could also be a qualifier.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:43 am
romerozombie
I second Randall! LOL
March 13th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Nero, Caligula, Staling, Pol Pot, Bin Laden, Hitler…
March 13th, 2008 at 10:44 am
they guy who invented the nuclear bomb could also be a qualifier.
If you look at the number of people who would have died in an invasion of Japan, you can say they saved lives by dropping the bomb
March 13th, 2008 at 10:45 am
First off, Hirohito evilness is still under debate. I tends to agree with many historians that he was surrounded by too many nationalist advisers. He just went with the flow, he was one of the first people that seek truce. Do you know that he boycott the WWII shrine in Japan because it has included Class A War Criminal?
I would go with Stalin and Pol Pot. But there are more person often missed. Qin Shi Huang Di. Lord knows how many people die so he can unite China.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:46 am
i agree with stalin as a choice.(he was statisticly th deadliest dictator)
however his 5 year plans greatly improved USSR’s economies.which is evident in the fact hey were one of the superpowers after WW2
March 13th, 2008 at 10:47 am
I’m gonna have to go with Jesus Christ or at least the people that took his message and created a faith out of it…
March 13th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Grant:the nuclear bomb was inevitable.almost everyone in WW2 was trying to develop one and whoever got it first would really have won the war.it was a necessity that the english or americans invented it first
March 13th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Its practically impossible to read up on Joseph Mengele without getting sick to your stomach. That man defined Evil…
March 13th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Nero, Caligula…. not even close to Genghis Khan (the Wrath of Khan?)
They even discovered that if you fling dead plague victims into a wall city, youll kill them inside the city.
Nero & Caligula just got the fame since the historians were Romans
March 13th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Nuclear bomb didn’t save anyone. The Japanese was negotiating with the US. But the US wanted ‘unconditional surrender’. The Japanese wants the emperor left alone. The US unleashed nuclear bomb. The Japanese unconditionally surrender. The US (rather McArthur) left the emperor alone anyway.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:52 am
King of the Horizon: I agree with that (I just copied the 1st part from an earlier post)
March 13th, 2008 at 10:53 am
specialk: would you mind explaining that?
March 13th, 2008 at 10:59 am
King of the Horizon: He improved the economy? What about the famine that caused the deaths of millions?
March 13th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Jessy:
Not to be argumentative (okay, it IS to be argumentative)… but would you care to tell us what these things are that Hitler and Stalin did that were so beneficial for their countries? Some industrialization and the Autobahn (both done to support military purposes) don’t offset genocide, torture, and brutal cults of personality.
I give you kudos, though, for hating Pol Pot so much. Surely he was one of the worst monsters in human history.
What irks me a bit more is… who are these contenders from ancient Greece that you refer to? Ancient Greece is a specialty of mine… and to my knowledge it did not produce ANY monsters to match those of Rome or medieval Europe, not to mention the 20th century. In fact, no real “monsters” at all. A few tyrants, but no real mass murderers.
And please don’t get me started on the invention of the atomic bomb. The men who accomplished that feat were NOT evil. They were scientists who were trying to ensure that the Allies got the thing before the Nazis did–the Nazis, by the way, WERE actually evil.
I hate this knee-jerk reaction people have about the atomic bomb. Yes, it’s a horrible weapon. I hope to god we never see one used again. But at the time of its use it brought a speedy end to the most terrible war in human history–a war which would have dragged on weeks and possibly months–and even possibly YEARS longer without it—killing thousands and perhaps millions more people.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Tonny SS:so if the japenese were in talks with the US but they refused conditions of surrender how can you be sure they would eventually give in?japanese always found surrender a disgrace(hari-kiri).So there are 2 options.An invasion or the bomb.In an invasion more people would have died.I presonally think the Us made the right choice
March 13th, 2008 at 11:02 am
HandyMandy:
K, I take back anything nice I said about you and to you yesterday, honey.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Tough call. There are so many evil men in this world, past and present. I’m going to have to choose Oprah Winfrey.
Oprah gives s*** away all the time. Yeah, we know you’re rich, stop f***ing showing off. Women just LOVE Oprah Winfrey. Years down the line, women are going to revolt against men because of this evil man, and women are going to start killing us men and our evil penises and soon the human race will burn in flames. Thanks Adolf Winfrey!
And before anyone says it, yes, I know Oprah is a woman. If you don’t get my joke, you’re a damn idiot.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:05 am
One of the reasons I frequent the comments section on this website more than others is because of some of the batshit crazy things people write.
specialk – are you feeling ok today? Congrats on moving up to the top of the shit-hill of the most stupid things ever uttered on this site.
I didn’t know Jr. High got out this early in the afternoon . . .
March 13th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Jfrater:true about the famine.however russias leaders had been more or less a series of disasters(look at the tsars) and the serfs were treated terribly and using much outdated farming methods which had been changed many years ago.stalin was bad but to the peasentry it wasnt much of a change i beleive.I will brush up on my russian history later when i have some time
March 13th, 2008 at 11:10 am
No one “invented” religion, it is a natural human impulse. People have done some nasty things in the name of Christianity, but that doesn’t make Christian principles evil. I’m not a religious person myself, but Jesus seemed pretty sensible to me
I’d have to go with Hitler. The ways he killed people and his reasons for doing it just disgust me more. Stalin caused a famine, but I don’t think he really went about that on purpose. His reasons for ordering people murdered were also sickening, but these murders were often caused more by Stalin’s raging paranoia than despising people for their heritage, something they couldn’t change. Certainly doesn’t excuse Stalin in any way, it is just my opinion that Hitler’s motivations were much more evil. Stalin just seems crazy to me, which is different than evil.
Correct me if I am wrong on my facts, but I think my opinion is driven more by gut feeling than facts anyway.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Tonny SS:
I don’t wish to open this up into a debate about the atomic bomb, but you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
The Allies had made no threat to the Emperor’s status in their ultimatums to the Japanese. Moreover, “leaving the Emperor alone” was NOT the only condition that the Japanese were placing on any surrender.
The Japanese were NOT “negotiating with the US.” We had no relations whatsoever at the time. Negotiations (what negotiations there were) were being conducted through neutral parties–one of whom, for a time, was the Russians–who had their own agenda (they hoped to have a chance to enter the fight with Japan just in time to grab some mainland territory and some long-disputed islands) and so played it very cagey with the Japanese.
What you don’t seem to realize is that WHILE all this supposed negotiating was going on, soldiers were *still* dying on both sides. And IF the Japanese were so keen on surrendering–then why did it take TWO atomic bombs to finally convince them to do it?
March 13th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Christianity, and religion in general, has been responsible for more deaths than anything else in history. Look at the holocaust since so many have brought WW2 and Hitler. Anti-semitism stems from the anachronistic belief that they killed Jesus. Terrorism today is just a warped interpretation of the Qur’an. The Spanish Inquisition targeted religious minorities, especially Jews, and tried to convert them under the threat of torture and death. If the question was, what was the most evil thing in history, I would have said Religion, but it was the most evil man, so I just chose Jesus because the spreading of Christianity has caused so many problems in the world. I know that the man Jesus Christ taught brotherly love and peace, but the result is the same.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Specialk – Just because someone’s actions cause others to be evil, this does not mean they are evil. It is just not logical. Let it go.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:23 am
GEORGE W!
March 13th, 2008 at 11:23 am
King of the Horizon:
No no… wrong.
“…stalin was bad but to the peasentry it wasnt much of a change i beleive.” (sic)
It was very much a change, King. There’s this half-mythical idea that the Czars were as bad as Lenin and Stalin. Well let’s not pretend–the Czars sometimes were miserable bastards (other times not) and they did keep their people in an essentially feudal status well past the time that that system had died out in the rest of Europe–but what Stalin did to the peasantry was *far* worse than anything the Czars EVER did. Up to the time of Lenin and Stalin the peasants had been kept down, badly, but otherwise were more or less left to their own devices. Lenin and particularly Stalin introduced forced collectivization, however, which is one of the brutal and monstrous moves which helped usher in the terrible famines that followed in the wake of the Bolshevik takeover.
The peasants of Russia were never in a happy place, no… but they were far better off under the Czars than the brutalization they suffered under Stalin.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:26 am
King of the Horizon – I believe much of the peasantry was displaced from their homes to work on collective farms. Or maybe I just got that from watching Fiddler on the Roof.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:27 am
specialk: I think a distinction needs to be made between religion and Christianity. True Christianity is about the saving grace of Jesus, and the love and forgiveness that springs from that. Meaning, Hitler might have claimed he was doing what he was doing in the name of Christianity, but he was not. He twisted the basic premise of the faith into a perverted, evil religion that ended up leading to his belief in perverted, evil things. He was no more a Christian than an elephant is a hippo.
I think it’s more accurate to say the perversion of religion is the most evil thing in the world. As a Christian, I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Bible is all about love, forgiveness, peace, and treating your fellow man with respect and honor. Of course, the wrath of God plays a major part in people who don’t accept the truth. We each have free will whether we accept it or not.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Randall – the question I’d ask you is this… Did Stalin MEAN to cause a famine? I ask this in all seriousness, as he was totally off his rocker and for all I know it was part of the plan. But I think intention matters in these things, especially when we are talking about evil. If he actually thought he was improving the country, it doesn’t really count as evil.
Though I do know that not doing enough to help the situation once the famine took hold is a whole different issue on top of that…
March 13th, 2008 at 11:32 am
specialk – I completely agree. “religion” has been the root of most evil do-ers!
March 13th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Hitler or Stalin, not a whole hell of a lot of difference between the two of them. At least Stalin helped the Allies win WWII, so I’ll go with Hitler.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:33 am
SpecialK – The Son of Sam said his dog told him to kill, does that make his dog evil?
March 13th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Jamie Frater. Making this site, PURE fucking evil, man. PURE. EVIL ASS CLOWN MUTHA FUCKAAAA
March 13th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Like I said before, my main beef is with religion. I’m not a communist but as Karl Marx said, “Religion is the Opiate of the Masses”. It was used to control people in a time when those in charge used the ignorance of the people against them and encouraged superstition and fear in order to take advantage of them. Also, in my original post, I said if not Jesus then the people that went on to found a faith based on his teachings. As the worlds largest religion, Christianity has continued thousands of years of oppression toward progressive thought and freedom. Jesus may not have personally killed millions or sent others to do that, but his successors did.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Jo Seephus: Many thanks! It is always nice when one’s work is appreciated
March 13th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I have to sat that off the top of my head it has to be Hitler. Although Stalin may have killed more people, being shot is a far better fate than some of the things that Hitlers men did in the concentration camps. However I have to go with Josef Mengele at Auschwitz camp. He was the man that commited the crimes that Hitler took credit for. He was the man that tested the resistance of different races for imunity of certain diseases, as well as being the head of the notorious concentration camp.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Darth Vader
March 13th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Nelia:
I think it’s impossible to say for certain what Stalin had in that warped but Machiavellian evil-peasant mind of his. But don’t be fooled about Stalin—you said earlier, in essence, that you thought he was just “crazy,” which is different from “evil.” I wouldn’t agree–Stalin wasn’t merely crazy. He was, I think, essentially a sociopathic paranoid (but oddly enough, not “crazy” per se) who had placed himself above all other human life and all concerns of the state–as Hitler had done. Interestingly enough, there’s some parallels in the two men’s early history. But at any rate–I think it’s a mistake to think of Stalin as merely crazy. He was a shrewd and evil son of a bitch, but not a raving lunatic.
It HAS been speculated–and there’s some evidence to support it–that Stalin DID intend to spark a famine—in order to “thin out” the population of “unneeded peasants,” who, Stalin believed, were also a core source of opposition to his social agendas—the peasants were religious, they had a close connection to the land, they had nothing in common with the urban/industrial powerbase that supported his ideas and, in large part, did what Stalin told them to do. The peasants were a danger, a possible source of a grass-roots uprising. It’s entirely possible that he viewed famine as an easy way to get rid of them before they organized.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:39 am
bucslim – I love you.
This is so difficult…Jim Jones, Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jong-il, Pol Pot, bin Laden, Hussein…Also, anyone who supports abortion.
I can’t choose only one.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:40 am
specialk: Money is the root of all evil, not religion.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Randall:that is true.i overlooked that essential difference of collectives when i was mentally comparing the czars to stalin
March 13th, 2008 at 11:42 am
I never said religion was the root of all evil, I think it is just like money. Both are a good thing, until someone comes along to abuse it.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Ron: people under Stalin did not get away as lightly as just death by bullet. They died in the gulags and in the Great Purge. They also had human experimentation labs like Hitler and the Japanese.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:45 am
What about Ted Bundy? Or John Wayne Gacy? Or David Berkowitz? or Henry Lee Lucas? Or Jeffrey Dahmer? Or Armin Meiwes? All pretty evil guys.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Charles Manson
March 13th, 2008 at 11:46 am
specialk:religion isint evil.true people kill in the name of religion but that is mainly just to give justification to thier actions as most of them know its wrong but want to feel its right.and aside from that religion isint an evil man which is this subjects title.also im sure the person who ”invented” religion didnt intend for it i to be used for deadly means.like how alfred nobel invented dynamite but did not intend it to be used to kill,and i dont consider alfred nobel to be an evil man.neither do i consider the inventor of the gun or sword to be evil
March 13th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Joss – I’m succeptable to your charms. Unless you’re a dude. Not that there’s any wrong with that.
specialk – thank you for your precise and eloquent rant against someone who died for the sins of humanity and taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves.
Great, now the list universe has become a salt lick for lunatics.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Randall, Nelia; My uncle is one of the dispossessed from the Stalinist purges. He is very well educated in History and Theology. He certainly believes Stalin intended the famine. They starved because he took the food as tax, not only because of the inefficiency of the collectives.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Fred West even
March 13th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Mom – Interesting point. Certainly seems like Stalin should be inching up in the polls with that one…
March 13th, 2008 at 11:57 am
to give a new avenue of discussion within this topic, lets look at the question very early on. does it take a more or less evil person to do their killing “face to face”?
i wonder how many people stalin or hitler killed with their own hands. giving consent to evil is one type. perpetrating it “in cold blood” is another.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Disc – I’d rather make sport of specialk
March 13th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
The title of this post begs the question- how do we quantify evil?
Is it simply how many people someone kills?
Or their influence over a society?
Or if they simply don’t agree with your viewpoint?
Furthermore, if many that answer this don’t believe in Absolute Truth, won’t this be a meaningless discussion?
March 13th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
No doubt: the person that invented the necktie.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I have no pick for most evil. There are too many to choose from. Circumstance and political power allowed Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Mao and the rest of the psycho/sociopathic despots great evil. If they were not in power, they would have committed the same sort of atrocities, just in a smaller, meaner way. Same evil, the the scale of destruction differs. Most destructive would have to be Stalin or Hitler. Pol Pot, although he killed pretty much the entire middle class (teachers, doctors, professional folk, anyone who was educated at all), was responsible for less than 2 million deaths. I think the numbers for Mao were in the tens of millions, but his motives are less clear. I don’t know how many were incidental to his destructive policies and how many were politically motivated. I need help on this one.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Joss; so I’m evil eh? Want to come visit and you can find out how evil? Actually I’m kind, decent, and respectful. Except to narrow-minded folk who make stupid-ass comments on “Evil Men” forums. Your daughter raped at 11, your views on abortion might just change. You have no right to impose your stupidity on the rest of us. Most especially this forum, return to your right-wing idiocy at the first opportunity. Please.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
The most evil man ever? That’s a tough one…I don’t think I can pick just one (personally, it’s between the Big 2…I’ve lost some of my older family to Hitler’s camps, and Stalin has the numbers argument). Having said that, who’s to say whose suffering was worse at the hands of Asshole Dictator X? Isn’t any suffering inherently frowned upon?
March 13th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
bucslim: no doubt, that is entertaining sport.
mom424: looks like you might be giving jamie an idea for the next “your view” topic. that might get a little heated.:O
March 13th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I’d choose Stailn, Hilter, or Mao. Runner ups would be Ivan the Terrible, Caligula, the Spanish Conquistadors, and Kim Jung-Il and Kim Il-Sung.
Evil is a flexible term. I hate when people throw it around so lightly. Calling Jesus evil? Is this bizarro land? Blame Paul and Peter for Christianity, not Jesus of Nazareth. They’re the assholes. and Michael Moore evil? Good god…you better throw Sean Hannity, Anne Coulter and Rush Limbaugh in there too they skew their facts just as much as MM.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Aw, cmon, Mom. Please don’t use the term “right-wing idiocy.” It makes me feel like I’M an idiot for my beliefs. I’m pro-life myself (except in cases of rape and the-mother-is-absolutely-
gonna-die-there-is-no-way-to-save-both-mom-and-baby), but I’ve always been of the opinion that we should live and let live.
Not all Republicans are evil. I realize that’s an extremely hard concept to grasp for most, but it’s true!
I swear!
March 13th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
DiscHuker; I will gladly engage in that debate on that “your view”. Not on the worst evil. Same as the Oppenheimer/Manhattan project comment. Just dumb.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
I have to agree with Stalin, of course a few noatables are Hitler, the king sung guys, hell, even a few religious leaders like ghandi were evil in their own way.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
mom424 and diskhuker: that will saprk some big comments, but my your view, the best band of all-time, will create a lot of comments.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
George Freakin Bush! (Both of them)
March 13th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Ginger Lee; Anne Coulter excuses her poor ass behavior by stating that she is a polemicist. Randall was up for most evil somewhere on this “your view”. Randall is also a polemicist.
hmmm
March 13th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
You can’t say religion is evil because a religious person (or people) did something “evil.” That’s like if someone listens to classical music goes on a rampage, saying classical music is evil as a result. There are obviously unknown 3rd, 4th, and 5th variables causing influence.
PS. If you think George Bush is evil, or even stupid, you’re extremely uninformed. This will become apparent when you stop listening to newspapers and CNN for information. Do some real research, like out of books, and you’ll see a different light.
And I’m from Canada so I have some genuine objectivity here.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
celeste:here here, both are dumb and evil as hell.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Celeste: You know nothing about the world if you think any president of the United States could ever be considered one of the most evel men of all time.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Mom:
Do NOT EVER EVER EVER lump ME together with Anne Coulter. EVER.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Randall; I was joking, the little smiley thing at the end of the sentence? I was kind of hoping for more of a rebuke though. She is nassssty. What about Mao? Most deaths on purpose (political gain) or incidental? I really don’t know.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Phillies; I believe you, you didn’t make the open-ended stupid right-wing comment on this forum, did you? I actually hold some right wing views myself. Not too many, but a smattering. There are left-wing idiots as well. I’m an equal opportunity bitch.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I don’t even have to think about this. Hitler was. He was such a bigot and he hates so many people. He was a horrible leader and a horrible person.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Stalin and Hitler and Mao may have the big numbers but Pol Pot had the best average, he and his Khmer Rouge were responsible for the death of about a third of the entire nation of Cambodia.
Sadly none of them can hold a candle to the Catholic Church which is the most evil entity ever to exist and for that (the apostle)
Go ahead and flame away but deep down you know I’m right about this 2000 year old organized crime family that is responsible for more evil than anything else that lived
March 13th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Mom:
No, I know you weren’t serious. I was just demonstrating my intense hatred for Anne Coulter.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Honestly, I would probably place Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Lenin all on a more or less equal plane. Lenin just died too soon before he had a chance to commit more than a few atrocities, compared to the others.
Stalin wins by the numbers… Mao and Hitler neck and neck for second I suppose.
I think in all these totalitarian states–the atrocities are ALWAYS done on purpose–they’re not “incidental.” These are not men interested in helping people. Remember, their egos are all-encompassing. They see no use for the humanity under them except as a base of power and adulation.
We would never assume that a mafia boss would do things purely to help people (unless you’re naive) and they wouldn’t, and never have (they’ve done things only to burnish their image) so why would even larger monsters like Stalin, Mao, etc.?
March 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I haven’t read all the comments yet – yikes, 107! – but Stalin’s good, so is Lenin, and so is the usual Adolph Hitler. But for my money, even though he’s not tops in terms of number of people killed, I think he’s top in terms of “no conscience” and “no remorse” is Ted Bundy.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
bucslim: nope, definitely not a dude.
mom: Ouch. My daughter raped at 11 would not change my opinion of abortion. It’s still an infant, and it had nothing to do with the man who committed the crime. Remember, this part of listverse is known as “Your View” – my view is that abortion is murder. Also, I think that it’s interesting that I’m the one who’s narrow-minded, yet I’m also the one who isn’t allowed to share their views. Am I going to hurt your feelings?
March 13th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Anybody here watch that show “Most Evil”? It’s a pretty good show.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
gravy: you can say hitler was evil and a bigot and a horrible person but your other accusation is downright wrong. he would have to be on a list of, as wrong as this sounds, best leaders. how else can you explain that most of a country was willing, at least, to look the other way if not participate in his atrocities? a slouch can’t pull that off.
please understand, hitler will rot for eternity. i don’t have any swastikas at my house or in my heart. but let’s be accurate in our assesments.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I would love for the people who type “George W Bush” as the most evil person to go back in time and live under Stalin as a commoner or Hitler as a Jew, or Pol Pot as a Cambodian. Are your lives today completely miserable and horrific as those peoples’ ever were? I’m guessing not. To believe otherwise means your idealogy and opposition to him cloud your own common sense.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
to all: something seems a little bit wrong using terms like good and best and the like when refering to these guys. a little bit of somberness seems appropriate with this issue.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Dread Pirate Bob:
I’m behind the sentiment, man, but really, the idea itself is absurd. It’s hugely over the top.
The church has been responsible for some huge atrocities. But it’s also been responsible for some tremendous good. Our civilization was basically saved by these men, 1500 years ago, eking out their pitiful lives in Ireland and other northern islands, some of the last few literate men in existence.
And then the church stood for the unity of the West at a time when the petty kings of Europe would have fractured it forever, in pursuit of their own self-aggrandizement. At times the church has stood in the fight against poverty and slavery.
Against this, the church has at times promoted ignorance and evil. It’s a body of fallible human beings. It’s a state unto itself, or was, anyway. It moved from evil to good with the times.
This really does not compare, however, to the individual men who in a single, monstrous lifetime moved nations to murder and torture and brutality in their own name. Stalin and the rest are monsters. The church is just an instrument for human stupidity at times, and at other times an instrument for *some* good.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Religion in general, and in particular those who use it to kill, are the most “evil” people – man or woman.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Ginger Lee:i would not consider the conquisatidors evil in the sense i dont consider nazi soldiers evil.they were acting under order in army they did not choose to join.Neither do i consider Hernan Cortes too evil as he too worked for a higher power(the spanish royalty) although i beleive he was greedy and that in turn gave him some level of evilness
Csimmons:care on elaborating on how gandhi was evil?he sure helped millions of people
to all those who say the church is evil:give a real arguments and dont just say they have caused misery and death for 2000 years
to those who say george bush is evil:true his middle eastern policy is off.off not evil.however it is all the media will cover on him.he has done immense work in africa.an interesting article of which can by Bob Dylan can be found on this in Time magazine
March 13th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
James J, what are you on? most of the other people Hitler killed her polish (okay that’s true) but Irish?… Irish?!… who the hell taught you your history…
March 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Joss; This is not the place. Nor is it something to joke about. If you did not wish to provoke this kind of response, why did you say it here? And you know very well that there are many pro-choice folks who are not evil, just as I know not all anti-abortionists are.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Randall and others:your points are execellent but i beleive it is rather insensitive to judge evil by numbers.if the intention is there to harm another thats evil.it doesnt really matter how much or how little you do.if you have intention and commit action you are evil…
not calling you evil
just giving an example of what i think it is
March 13th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Mom: I didn’t joke. Also, I didn’t wish to provoke the type of response you offered. A calm response with a willingness to discuss would have been more than welcome. Instead, I was told to shut up and get out.
I do realize that there are many pro-choice people who are not evil. But, I also believe that it is wrong to believe in something without fully researching it. Having said that, I believe that it is evil to know exactly what abortion is and still be in support of it.
I’m quite sorry to label supporters of abortion as evil. Rather, I believe abortion is evil, and so it’s easy to lump those two together and call it macaroni.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
now i find this an interesting question because while yes the likes of hitler and stalin were by far some of the evilest men with power in history you have to look at some of the great serial killers (i use the word great lightly) im talking the guys who kill for the pleasure of killing, Stalin and Hitler were both trying to accomplish something (in the worst way possible) but what about those guys who kill people for the sake of killing people, rape, canabalise and torture for the pleasure of doing just that. Put these guys in a position of power like stalin and hitler and just imagine the results.
For an example lets use the russian chessboard killer, imagine if his favourite game had been risk we would all be screwed
maybe the next your view should be is george bush evil a hero your just plain stupid?
March 13th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Stalin is a good choice, so is Lenin, though Lenin wasn’t as outright batshit insane when it came to internal purges and murder.
But I wonder how much of Stalin’s ‘numbers’ as it were come from things he didn’t have a direct hand in? The disastrous 7-year plans and agriculture policies of Lysenko caused as many deaths as the gulags ever did, if not more.
On the other hand, Hitler’s obsession was his own. Hitler started the Nazi party, lead it to power, used that power to re-arm Germany and lead it on wars of aggression against neutral targets and engaged in the unprecedented slaughter of his own people. Stalin was an old party member, but he wasn’t the originator of the communist/totalitarian ideology. Hitler planned, orchestrated and committed both the largest genocide and largest war of aggression the world has ever seen. Not only that, his hands-on mismanagement of the war cost millions of German soldier’s lives that would have otherwise not been lost as well.
Stalin was bad, don’t get me wrong, he was an evil and despicable person, so was Mao, and Pol Pot, and so are several of the modern dictators named. But Hitler was the singular engineer of some of the worst atrocities the world has seen. What he did not directly plan he ordered planned and done.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
“People are not evil, only their actions are evil” -I forgot. Probably not worded correctly either, but you get the point
March 13th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
To post #73, It’s actually the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. (look at the vatican) There are too many to choose from, but I think Fred and Rose West are way at the top. And the Ken and Barbie murdering team as well. I give up trying to pick the worst in dictators, tsars, emporers, etc….
March 13th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
People seriously need to get off the “Religion is evil” kick. If you’re an atheist, that’s all fine and good, but there’s no reason whatsoever to think that religion is evil. People have twisted religion to their personal views, yes, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest that religions are inherently evil (except for the most blatant offenders, such as Satanism).
March 13th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
To post #73, It’s actually the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. (look at the vatican) There are too many to choose from, but I think Fred and Rose West are way at the top. And the Ken and Barbie murdering team as well. I give up trying to pick the worst in dictators, tsars, emperors, etc….
March 13th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Mao
March 13th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Dan:
I understand what you’re saying, but read some of my points above about this. The reason we tend to lessen Stalin’s crimes is because he was, in a sense, “successful,” where Hitler was not. In other words, Stalin remained in power until he died in peace. Hitler was defeated, forced to take his own life.
It’s a mistake to believe that Stalin did not *intend* the crimes committed under him. They very much *were* intended. That they were depicted as “policy” whereas Hitler’s crimes were depicted as the atrocities they were is an example of how Stalin’s ideology was more finely honed than Hitler’s. Stalin was better at running his ruthless, horribly evil show. Hitler by comparison, was not as adept.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
sorry about my double post, I was having trouble with the site.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
i think a lot of things can be linked back to our animal instincts, sex drive labido and what not are are all our brain telling us to continue our gene pool survival of the fittest and what not. humans pigs dolphins and apes all got to smart for that urge and so now we do it for the pleasure and still get the same results. Anyway what im trying to say is abortion in someways could be linked to this, lions and may other animals will kill the newborn of other males to ensure there gene pool ocntinues, abortion is usually a result of the parent/s fearing they wont be able to care for there newborn or provide for it, this may be natural instinct kicking in telling them by having this child they may be also putting themselves at risk of not being able to reproduce later down the line or when they are ready, call it evil but there are such things as necessary evil.
Adoption is probably the better way to go
March 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Nah, some people are evil. Like I said, wouldn’t matter where they were, they would do evil things. From the get-go. Born wrong, bad seed, missing something. Something wired wrong, do not get pleasure/satisfaction/stimulation in the same way the rest of us do. Yup, real, not science-fiction, whispy smoke and evil spirits. Likely some neurological defect or something.
Varying degrees of course. Otherwise there would be no lawyers or talent agents.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Sorry, post was for phender bender.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Randall:i beleive hitler was actually better at running things then stalin but hitler was being was put under more pressure from the allies while stalin had allied with them nad the only time stalin faced a real problem in the war was the eventual operation barbarossa(i think thats its name)which he already prepared for because both sides knew their truce wouldnt last forever.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Certainly I agree that Hitler and Stalin are extremely evil men, and either would be my choice right now, but how are we defining evil? Does one really have to be a ruler of a country to qualify for this? If Hitler’s Beer Hall Putsch (sp) had failed, would he be less evil? Or is it because of his “evil-ness” that he managed to be ruler? I forget who earlier mentioned the fact that we’re all believing in some version of Absolute Truth by arguing this, but it would seem we’re obviously not not even all arguing the same Absolute Truth (for example, we have differing views on abortion). So I wonder how we can argue about this when no one has defined it yet.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
I think its the combination of wealth and power, or the attempt to gain wealth and power, that lead people to evil. Although some do use it for good, like Batman
March 13th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
i dont think religion is evil, i think its the fact that so many religions dont accept others have different religous beliefs and go out of there way to force there religion on others that results in so many wars. To a certain extent aethiests going around bagging religion are doing the exact same thing the religous people are doing by forcing there beliefs on those that dotn wanna hear it.
I think the world would be a better place if everyone just accepted everyone for who they are and what they believe.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
dahmer has my vote, just the extent he went with S&M, cannabalism and dissolving peoples brains for his sexual pleasure
March 13th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Hitler.
What was his solution of what to do with people who didn’t fit his image? Annihilate them.
What a piece of shit, talk about no tolerance.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Canuck: if Hitler had not come to power we wouldn’t know him – obviously we can only include people we are familiar with. The position of power he gained allowed him to do evil things – without that power he may have done nothing worse than paint ugly paintings and write racist literature.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Having read quite a bit about Stalin and even some about Hitler, it isn’t really fitting to call them evil- even though they killed millions, they were not psychopaths. Hitler loved his sister, mother and his dogs, had a deep sense of duty towards his family and as a child he enjoyed practical pranks. Stalin loved his wife and his adopted children very much, and was known to be a generous, funny (if stern) guy in person. They murdered people, and that is awful and horrible, but it was not as though they typically sat down and said, kill this guy, this way. Stalin did this, but that was politically motivated and fairly common. The most evil person I can think of is Ted Bundy- killed and tortured random people and animals in an extremely personal way for sexual reasons, and felt no remorse. That scares me more, and seems more evil, because you could always stand some small chance of talking your way out of trouble with Stalin or Hitler, but if Ted Bundy decided he wanted to kill you, he was going to do it and nothing you could say or do would change that.
I guess I just find psychopaths more frightening than dictators.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
my science teacher
March 13th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
my vote could go either way for Hitler of Stalin, Im saying Stalin just for his stats.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
marx for inventing communism
March 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Nancy “Nostrils” Grace has most of my hate at the moment. She needs to realize that she’s no longer a prosecutor and driving innocent people to suicide, without remorse, is pretty Evil.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
My ex-husband. Ok, he isn’t the MOST evil but he is definitely in the top ten.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Right behind jono’s science teacher.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Albert Fish or Allister Crowley
March 13th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Well, stuff sucked before Stalin also, you know,
and it wasn’t him alone,
but yeah, Stalins up there on the list.
Either way, I go with Hitler,
he DIRECTLY killed the most people, I believe,
and I don’t know what was with Hitler,
he was crazy.
The thing that really puts Hitler ahead of Stalin is the fact that Hitler kept really meticulous records of everything he did. You know why? So that if he failed in his “final solution”, (which he assumes he would), then somebody else could take what he did and work off of it.
Like blueprints.
Stalin didn’t do that, he just did what he did. He didn’t think, “Well, if I fail, I want someone else to carry on my work, so I better leave instructions…”
And aadude: Don’t be stupid. It’s not Communism that’s bad, it was the political corruption. Communism is the perfect system. It just doesn’t work.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Richard Chase.
What that man did with a knife, and to that baby…
The ones who did the most damage were just lucky to have that power at their disposal, this guy did what he did with no power. He obviously had mental retardation, but still.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
sorry people, but im gonna have to with jesus here, more people have died as a result of his teachings over anyone else alone, some estimates ranging from 30-100 million losses because of christians, including sanctioned and encouraged rape on young girls during the plagues, torture, shunning, destructions of entire civilizations, religions, and cultures, sorry dudes, but jesus takes the cake.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
i personnally evil and good do not exist that all men can do evil and good. its just in the eye of the beholder.. oh that and hmm i should say i have a a friend. yes a friend its not me who would say gandhi.. i think hes insane but he says he ended imperialism
March 13th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
jeus never preached christianity.he preached a message of love and tolerance.christianity was only born many years after his death.you must remember he was always a jew
March 13th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
genghis khan and atilla the hun are a tie
March 13th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Aleister Crowley but in a good way
March 13th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
to king — except youre wrong, jesus never did, he preached killing non christians, and people who didnt abide by gods will, who wouldnt be prosthelytized, and besides if say he never did kill anyone directly, well, hitler never directly killed a jew, or anyone (except for in ww1 when he was a soldier, im not sure but he mightve killed someone, took 4 french prisoners though!)
March 13th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
mom424: Does having a mental illness make someone evil?
I still think Jim Jones was the most evil. People say that everyone in Jonestown committed suicide, but babies don’t commit suicide.
March 13th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
jeff: are you serious?
March 13th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
i wouldnt say jesus or god (god doesnt really count as a person now does he?) its peoples misconstrueing what he taught (if you beleive in that sort of thing) that leads to the evil act. 100 people can read the exact same sentence and still interpret 100 different ways.
March 13th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
specialk – actually, most of the sickos mentioned here were not religious, but anti-religious, and specifically, often anti-christian. Stalin, Lenin, Marx, Hitler, PolPot.
No argument, people have done wicked things in the name of religion, but they have done so in the name of just about every ideology. However, some ideologies, like atheistic communism and nazism (social darwinism) have done the most damage.
But I vote for Mohammed. His ideology is basically anti-semitic, violent, AND invokes God on top of that – makes Hitler look like a bit of an amateur.
See also:
Atheist Atrocities
Modern Myths About Christianity – Witch Hunts
The Real History of the Crusades
The Religion of Peace
March 13th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
for me it is a tie between Josef Mengele and Lyndon Johnson and Pol Pot. Honorable mention has to go to Hitler and Stalin
March 13th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I would just like to throw out there a few other names. Most the discussion seems to be on the 20th century. There are 6-8 thousand years of history before that.
I am not sure what exactly defines evil but these guys and gals are no saints:
Caligula (possibly crazy), Erzabet Bathory of Hungary (bathed in the blood of virgins), Vlad the Impaler (killed many is cruel and unusual ways), etc.
I cannot think of any others off hand but I am sure ancient history holds a treasure trove of evil men and women.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
149. Cambrex101
Agree with your comments. I’d also say Hitler is the most evil because of the calculated way he went about his killings. Not to mention the hatred and bigotry that he inspired and still inspires today, ie. through neo-nazi groups and white supremasists.
Stalin was a nasty piece of work, though I think a lot of the deaths he was responsible for were the result of his economic policies (like Mao), whereas Hitler went out specifically to wipe out an entire race of people.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
to phender, yes i am serious, hitler never actually killed anyone, his soldiers and the like did, but he himself no, unless you believe the story of his death, which i dont. so if a person doesnt need to directly kill anyone, but as a result of their teachings the deaths be caused, or by their policies, or otherwise, than by all means jesus takes the cake still…
March 13th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Oh and i’m not sure the USSR was exactly “a thriving nation” before Stalin took over.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
A little tidbit to consider in the Hitler/Stalin contest here. When considering statistcs, consider the fact that during World War II 6 millions Jews died at the hands of Hitler’s system and roughly 10 millions civilians including many Germans, but does anyone know how many Russians died in that war? Would you believe 20 million!
And, you want cruelty? Consider how Hitler slowly strangled the leaders of the July 20 assasination attempt. Hours of film were made of their long torcherous deaths. They were stangled to the point of death and let down only to repeat the strangulations again and again until their bodies could no longer function anymore. Those taking the film finally had to leave the area and leave the cameras running because they were to ill to watch anymore. It is told that Hitler watched the film over and over for hours on end.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
141. KaCe – March 13th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
In terms of evil psychopaths i’d go for Richard Ramirez. Check out this quote:
“I love to kill people. I love to watch them die. I would shoot them in the head and they would wiggle and squirm all over the place, and then just stop. Or I would cut them with a knife and watch their faces turn real white. I love all that blood.”
Pure evil that.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Satan, anyone?
March 13th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Bob Ross.
You just know he was a closet serial killer.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Stalin,Charles Manson,Jim Jones ,Dracula,Caligula
many also forgot to mention people like
Rasputin ,Josef Mengele ,Albert Fish,Marquis DeSade,Charles Manson, Tex Watson, Ted Bundy,Torquemada,Idi Amen, Henry the 8th, Atilla the Hun, Ivan The Terrible, Nero, Andrei Chikatilo , Gary M_ Heidnik , The Zodiac, Jack The Ripper, Dennis Rader… to name a few
March 13th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Phender Bender; No, of course not. Evil is not the same as mentally ill. Mentally ill (in the legal sense) requires that you cannot tell the difference between right and wrong. Or alternatively, so far removed from reality you actually believe you are doing the correct or necessary thing. These fellows know the difference between right and wrong, they know how society feels about their actions. They do not care. They care only for themselves and their own twisted gratification. Bundy knew what he was doing was wrong, Stalin knew the consequences of his policies. Neither cared, they considered themselves separate from the rest of humanity, and all that mattered was their needs. No matter how sick and perverted those needs were.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
jeff-hitler intended to kill people.he invaded poland ,czech republic,france and most of europe.you dont fight a war without intending deaths.he also used his power so that the final solution went ahead.
im not a christian myself but can you find me any of jesus’ teachings that sanction violence?
March 13th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
also you must remember the subject is most EVIL man.not deadliest,not murdorus but evil man
March 13th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Quit with the evils of Religion would y’all please? Do you guys know that most of the evils of the Catholic/Christian church were for secular reasons. Secular means related to the world, or not of religion. In other words, politics. The Spanish Inquisition was a tool used by Spain to spread its influence. It worked, man they were all over the globe. Almost all the excesses blamed on Religion, were not caused by Religion, but Religion was hi-jacked to further secular aims.
By the way, I don’t believe in any particular religion, I just don’t believe it to be inherently evil. A few humans I know of; but that’s a different story.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
To hit a few key points:
Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and other genocidal dictators: Each could easily be considered the most evil. Just to clarify, evil and insane are in no way the same. While each was extremely evil, each of these men was completely sane and aware of his actions.
Dahmer, Bundy and the like: Compared to Hitler and his fellow fascists, these serial killers were insane and evil. These men, unlike the others, had no “good intentions” or even any cause in their own minds.
Christianity, the Church: Yes, the Church has led to millions of innocent deaths, whether Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Protestants, women, homosexuals… However, there are two points to be made: First, unlike men, the Church is a continuing body which, at this time, is not evil and is not killing people. If I was alive 500 years ago, I could easily say the Church should top the list in evilness, but today I do not see any evil in the Church.
Second, the actual Bible teaches kindness, as Voltaire said “Of all religions, Christianity is without a doubt the one that should inspire tolerance most, although, up to now, the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men.” Going with from a previous Lenin quote, Seneca once said “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Christianity just like most religions is meant to be good, teaching life lessons. The problems come when either the leaders teach their own prejudices or when the “common people” believe every word literally. I think I could say that the world would be better with religions that do not in any away impress their own beliefs on others.
GW Bush: No way. Our president, while he has his flaws, is not evil. Very few (if any) innocent people suffer daily because of the president. One specific thing is that our soldiers are not taught to kill civilians.
In truth though, I cannot say the US say clean hands. Between the native American genocide, slavery, imperialism and Japanese internment, I can comfortably say the US has some apologies to draft.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
The most evil man invented central privately owned banks like our Federal Reserve. Nothing like developing a system to enslave all of mankind. There is really nothing more evil and dangerous than unchecked greed and power without conscience.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
mom424: I find it hard to believe that a sane man could kill so many people. I feel bad enough when I have to kill lobster before I cook it.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
what about genghis khan? from what i have read it matters what side you were on if he was a good guy or not. he didn’t conquer half the world with out killing anyone. just some one else to throw into the mix.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
GEORGE BUSH!!! No, JK JK! Actually, Hitler but I don’t know…
March 13th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
I think God is(if he exists). How can someone so powerful and apparently loving sit back and watch young children suffer with cancer and other things while pedophiles and murderers are walking around with not a care in the world?!?!? I know he gave us free will and blah bah blah, but anyone with a heart could not sit back and let this happen.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Hitler and Stalin made plenty of good contributions to be considered the most evil, it doesn’t say “who killed the most” so both of them shouldn’t be considered.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I think Jim Jones is one of the most evil. He is the killer of thousands of adults and children.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
who is eviler…. the one who comes up with the ideology or the one who pulls the trigger?
March 13th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
the creators of Grand Theft auto are the most evil people who have ever lived.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
general custer
March 13th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
richard remeirez
pol pot
michael bay!
March 13th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
I have a book of the most evil tyrants ever. They have all been listed here. I think it’s not just “evil”. It’s having a black heart. Many people don’t value life and do what they want because they can. I include my EX who hurt me, raped me, abused me, stole from me, impregnated his teenage girlfriend, and then dragged me to court for 2 years claiming I was an unfit mother.Evil people do not bring jot to the world. They steal joy from the world.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
JMAC: Is that because you didn’t program it yourself/have the Idea first?
March 13th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
George Bush
March 13th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Beyond any doubt it’s Stalin, if only because of the numbers. Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Castro, et al shared his insanity, but he had the time to rack up the numbers.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Bent – I recently read a fascinating article about the adopted son of Jim Jones. I wish I could find it, but essentially he and some of the other young followers were away at an exhibition game against Chilean players when the mass deaths went down. It was about his life and how he’s dealt with his identity. Such a sad and interesting story.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Everyone! I know you all have great ideas for more Your Views, you should definitely start visiting the forums more and contributing your ideas.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
I agree with what everyone has said but it is interesting to think that these guys had to be incredibly smart in order to control whole countries to do what they want.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Hey I dont know if anyone addressed this yet, but one of the things that made hitler so horrible was the fact that he targeted people like himself. Think about it he wanted people to all have blond hair and blue eyes, while he himself did not have blond hair. He targeted jews even though it is thought that he had jewish lineage. (this is often debated though so dont bite my dick off about it) Another thing that is supposedly true is that he was gay, again the same group he tried to kill off. I think that is disturbing that he would target people like himself.
Also Vlad the Impaler was a pretty bad dude.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
I forget who sayed it before but its way at the start of this thing so im nto going to look it up.
I agree with him though when he said. EVIL true utter EVIL is all the same some just have more of an ability to express there agenda on other/nations. Bin-Laden and Hitler to me seems similar are the aspects of commiting genicide because of the other sides “religon” but Hitler is consider FAR worst be most. Think of this though how about you give Bin-Laden a bunch of nukes and the US lowers is missle defense and say “free-shot”, he destroys all major US citys. Now who do you think kill more people cause more damage is more Evil. Evil is Evil its all the same it just is diffrent by the ability of the person who harbors these sick thoughts. But yes simpley numbers Stalin wins. But simpley cruelaty with no “good” it has to be Pol Pot.
BTW the golden horde was a great empire and did nothing that the romans wouldn’t do remeber that as you post and Gegnis’s Evils.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Robert Mugabe, the Zimbabwean dictator. “Over the last year, [he] has systematically sought to erase white, European economic, social and cultural influence in his troubled nation, sending his armed thugs, or ‘war veterans’, to white-owned farms to intimidate and even murder the European farmers”.
One of my best friends grew up there. Her best friend, “A”, had grandparents in Zimbabwe, and that’s where her family was from. They would go together to her grandparent’s beautiful farm and eat fresh, warm fruit off the trees. When A’s family got wind of what Mugabe was endeavoring to do, her parents fled immediately, but her grandparents went back to take their belongings and their staff with them. They were old and sentimental, and their staff was like family to them. When they got to their farm, the staff were all hanged in trees around the property, and two graves were dug out for the grandparents. Everything was burned.
Europeans committed their own atrocities when they entered Zimbabwe, but this was not the way to get them out. Everyone who knew how to farm has been forced off their property or killed. The “black rebels” who are executing these atrocities do not know how to use the land they’re “reclaiming”, and now Zimbabwe’s economic state is horrific.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
christopher columbus
March 13th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Bush is the most evil living leader followed by Kim Jong-Il
Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot in modern history.
Caligula, Nero and Draco in more ancient history.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
I really wish people would check their facts before posting.
As far as the original question: For me it would be Stalin. He was, without question, responsible for more deaths(By millions), than Hitler. This was during “Peace” also.
Some remarks being made-”America wanted unconditional surrender”, that’s why they used the bomb, instead of negotiating a surrender. All you have to do is a little research, you will find many Japanese sources confirming all out mobilization that the Empire was instituting. I’m not justifying anything, but let’s at least deal with facts, so we can have a real discussion or debate.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
SoCalJeff, I hope you are joking about Bush being 1st in front of Kim Jong-Il
Jeff please give us your reasoning why Bush surpasses: Kim Jong-il, Al-Bashir, Mugabe, Castro, Than Shwe.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
King Diamond
March 13th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
definitely albert fish.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
The numbers don’t mean anything when determining evil. Stalin may have killed more than Hitler, but he had more people he could kill and more time to do the killing. Killing isn’t even necessarily an act of evil. It’s the motive that makes killing, and any action in general, evil.
As for who is the most evil, it would be difficult to say. Stalin and Hitler are certainly the most high-profile of recent times, but I would imagine that the truly evil would be a bit more discreet about it. Stalin and Hitler were far from good, but killing on a mass scale requires a degree of organization and planning which I doubt a man suffering from paranoid delusions would be able to muster.
As the old saying goes, “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn’t exist.” Sound advice for those driven by malice to do evil for evil’s sake.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Hitler , Bush or Stalin probably. In my opinion Hitler was the worst but in the year 2002 Bush started to kill many Iraqi’s for oil and claimed that a weapon of mass destruction was in there.
Since then, there has been no such weapon found. But he wasnt my first choice because his offences were small compared to the other men you people have noted. Hitler because , well , I think you all already know what he did in your history books or something. Hitler killed around 60 million people.
Another man to be noted is James Eugene Ewing. Read more about him over here http://www.raptureready.com/rr-evil.html. Apparently he defied god or something like that.
In the category of torturing animals, this man seems to have excelled in the subject. Everytime an animal comes to his place, most probably greyhounds, he leads them into a squalid shed and shoots them in the head. He has killed more than 10,000 animals. Read more about him http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63369.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I’m thinking Vlad the Impaler. He was one pretty bad dude. What’s worse, not only did he have all those people killed, he used to sit back and enjoy watching it being done. Twisted, eh? Although, I have to put jfrater up there for creating this mind control device otherwise known as listverse. Only a diabolical genius could come up with something so masterfully efficient at stopping me from starting my research paper.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
It’s easy to throw around names of dictators who killed millions, and they’re evil for sure. But I’m more afraid of the weirdos who rape people and cut them up and eat them. Yuck!
If I were to mention someone by name, I think at this moment I’m feeling that Tom Cruise is the most evil guy right now.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
There are some pretty warped definitions of evil floating around here. There are two generally accepted definitions. One is simply doing very bad things, and the other is to do things that sabotage good things.
The latter definition is what I find scary, that is true evil in my opinion, not someone trying to make things better for themself, but someone trying to make as much misery and pain and suffering as possible.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:09 am
How about Uday Hussein?
March 14th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Sammy friggin’ Hagar.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:16 am
here where i live in the state of guanajuato mexico once upon a time a guy who run a whorehouse,was in the late 70’s
when the police raid the house looking for a missing detective,the last place where they see it was going there and then found that the whores have a clandestine abortion clinic and sell the fetus to a witches and they have also a
fucking graveyard in the basement where was founded 200 bodies,
¿did i mention that also worship the devil,and eat human flesh?
now that EVIL
March 14th, 2008 at 2:14 am
Excuse me for this, but I’m going to vote for the narcissistic psychopath in my town, who shall remain nameless. He doesn’t like, and is even intimidated by me because he knows that I’m too smart for him to con and manipulate the way he does with an amazing amount of people. People think he’s a wonderful, friendly, super nice guy, but it’s all an act. He has even indirectly caused two people to die. He and his friends (cohorts) have made my life miserable the past few years by inventing, and spreading stories that make me out to be the bad guy. The lies have even followed me onto some internet message boards, and a blog.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:56 am
I live in Romania, and i must tell you, Vlad the Impaler wasn’t such a bad guy.
…ok, he impaled people, skin them alive and some other nasty stuff, but examples had to be made. And he didn’t execute random people, most of them were traitors. He is very loved around here. 
Oh…and btw, the actuall translation of his name sounds more like “Vlad Spiky” 
March 14th, 2008 at 3:51 am
As far as evil men go to me there is two categories: dictators and not dictators. As far as dictators go hands down Stalin as far as evil people who are not dictators I would have to go with the Zodiac killer because killing others is one thing but to flaunt your actions publicly and scare an entire city that’s messed up beyond comprehension.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:52 am
I have to agree. Vlad was a genius ruler. You cannot be an effective ruler if you don’t make your enemies fear you. By doing that, you will make those close to you love you more, and loyal subjects will remain so. This is assuming that, as was the case with Vlad Dracul, your punishments are considered to be just and well deserved.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:09 am
First, watch Grave of the Fireflies. Remember to have a Kleenex with you. My answer: Every man who participated in a firebombing. Sure, they atacked America, but did they attack civillians? NO! They attacked soldiers, who were TRAINED to die! We, we just dropped nuclear bombs on them and then killed more than 80 THOUSAND people in ONE raid! The true evils here: Truman and Eisenhower. Malicious scum.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:53 am
im going to have to say Chris Hansen, no living, has ever cockblocked so many people!lol:P
March 14th, 2008 at 5:04 am
Pender-Bender; Sane does not mean normal. Sane only means ‘aware of the consequences of your actions’. I would agree that none of the fellows mentioned (Jesus, Bush, etc. excepted), are not normal.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:21 am
Jfrater: I was just being succinct.
See Division within Japan and Attempts to deal with Soviet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan
Yeah, that’s Wikipedia. There are an article I read in my Rhetoric class at the college, but for the life of me I couldn’t remember the book.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:25 am
I’d go out Randall, but listverse is my life.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:56 am
No one said Shiro Ishii, the commander of unit 731?
March 14th, 2008 at 6:35 am
@ bucslim: Your hate for Michael Moore is your own opinion (even if a very sophomoric, ad hominem sort of hate), but it’s somewhat a slap in the face to many ppl who suffered at the hands of Stalin, Hitler (among others) for you to say Michael Moore, who’s contributed nothing to anyone’s death, to be considered an evil man. Take your ignorant, unfounded rhetoric elsewhere.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:50 am
To those idiots who have some sort of warped perspective by continuing to bring up Jesus in this discussion:
You’re not being clever, witty, sincere or intelligent. In short, you’re just showing your ass and confirming your inability to contribute anything of value to the conversation. Comparing Jesus’s message of love, peace and goodwill, to Stalin, HItler et al is laughable at best and downright insane at worst.
OK, we can all point to some really perverse and diabolical things done in his name. I think we can all agree that when someone hacks up someone with an axe and says “God told me to do it.” that that person is mentally unstable. That goes for anything like the Inquisition all the way up to Pat Robertson. But read very carefully the next line: Jesus had nothing to do with it.
Secondly, we all know everyone isn’t a Christian. But that doesn’t give you the right to pile on all of this industrial grade steaming BS on Jesus. He’s not responsible for what men do to each other, no matter what robe they are wearing or faith they profess.
He didn’t conduct cruel experiments on other people, didn’t force people from their homes into slavery, didn’t murder innocent people by the millions just to stay in power and didn’t spill scalding McDonald’s coffee in your crotch. Even the most hard core Atheist can recognize His basic rule, do unto others as you would have them do to you.
So keep your insipid, crackpot and juvenile opinions to yourself next time. Your not clever, you’re just boring.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:59 am
bucslim; Excellent Post!
Innocent; Move! Now! Sometimes the bad guys win. Even if he doesn’t, Is the worry worth it?
erick; Pretty sure bucslim was just making a point. Snide and sarcastic maybe, but not an insult to anybody but Michael Moore and his ilk.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:59 am
Thanks erick, I appreciate your criticism of my attempt at making sport of that doofus. And If I’ve ’slapped’ anyone in the face here who’ve suffered at the hands of Stalin and Hitler, I apologize.
I’ve watched most of Michael Moore’s films, some of them are pretty good despite the fact, yes the fact, that he’s a bloated blow-hard who wouldn’t know the truth if it bit him in his tarkus like ass. Probably because ‘the truth’s’ mouth isn’t big enough to even scratch the surface of it.
Yeah, maybe he hasn’t contributed to anyone’s death, and he hasn’t contributed much else either. Except his own ignorant unfounded rhetoric.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Thanks Mom, hey, what’s for supper?
March 14th, 2008 at 7:17 am
bucslim; nothing good, its Friday – Everybody fend for yourself day.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:22 am
This is bullshit. It all depends on history books written by the victors which is full of lies.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:24 am
adolf hitler is the most evil man in the world.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:24 am
That’s “are”, in previous post.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Miss Destiney, not Tom Cruise! ‘Cmon, he’s too cool to be evil.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:43 am
bob – Tom Cruise is too cool? Have you watched the news at all in the last three or so years? I thought he was OK before, might have even liked a few of his films, but over the past few years he’s gotten himself in such a downward spiral that it’s likely no one will ever take him seriously again. He’s completely delusional, have you seen his interviews? People like him are dangerous.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:45 am
It seems to me that the combination of two conditions has an inherent ability to create what we universally may decry as “evil men (persons)”.
The first necessary condition is the conviction that one KNOWS THE ANSWER, whatever the question may be. The second necessary condition is that one HAVE THE POWER, AND INCLINATION, TO COERCE OTHERS TO AGREE WITH THAT ANSWER.
All the most evil people on can imagine would fit this list.
The “answers” they might have are different. The questions they might be ANSWERS TO are different. But put those two together and look out.
Just for a relatively unknown, non-western fellow responsible for multimillions of innocent lives, how about Hon Xiuguan, the leader of the Taiping Rebellion in 1850’s China? Estimates of 20-30 million deaths in that one.
As an American, I would never have heard of him were it not for George McDonald Fraser and “Flashman and the Dragon.”
March 14th, 2008 at 7:50 am
211 comments and not a single one mentioning…
L RON HUBBARD
Personally I don’t think he’s evil, but this is Listverse right?
March 14th, 2008 at 7:54 am
I must ask why the ‘religion is evil’ card is being played so heavily…..
Firstly, ‘religion’ is not a man. Calm yourselves.
And Jesus was evil? Srsly. Love thy neighbour, feeding the poor, judge lest ye be judged, healing the sick, the morality bred into society (maybe not as much as we would like) and the general message of peace, love and forgiveness (with the odd smattering of hyperbolic ‘watch it now, don’t wanna go to hell do ya?’ thrown in for good measure. And please note the use of hyperbole…)
Yeah! Wasn’t Jesus a b*stard?! I mean, he single handedly killed miiiiillions of Jews, homosexuals, immigrants etc! Wait. Hang on. That’s not right.
Oh no no no, he starved miiiiillions of his own people! No, sorry, I’m doing it again.
He stalked and raped women and then strangled them with his own hands didn’t he? No?
Ah yes, that’s right. He apparently died for the sins of all man kind (whether they belieived in him or not, and I don’t so I’m not trying to preach but still, that’s a pretty decent thing to do) and he asked his apostles to ‘Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.’
Dude. Srsly. What a sh*thead.
Don’t blame Jesus, the individual, for the evils of MEN. Saying that Jesus is directly responsible for the misguided evils of men done ‘in his name’ or even for the evils of a church or Pope (some of whom were used as political tools during ‘papaly sanctioned’ atrocities) is a bit like blaming world hunger on a fat man.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:29 am
I don’t have any definite answer, but I don’t think either Hilter or Stalin are the most evil. Hilter and Stalin did what they believed to be right and true, making them corrupt, not evil. I think of an evil person as someone who is knowingly doing something wrong because it is wrong, not because they think it’s right.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:19 am
There is talk about the 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust and the 30 million Russians killed Stalin’s purges, but another major genocide of WWII seems forgotten. The Japanese raped, killed, and mutilated over 20 million Manchurians from the invasion in 1931 until the end of the war in 1945.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:56 am
stalin didnt take a thriving nation and ruin it, he brought russia from a peasant dominated rugged nation to a world superpower.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Sfsf:russia was still quite a powerful country.however it had many problems within as it did in the time of tsars,stalin, and still today even in neglected areas beyond the ural mountains
March 14th, 2008 at 10:50 am
I love these kinda of discussions because it typically features the most incredibly ignorant and moronic statements people can make on the internet.
Here is a great example from this thread:
I’m gonna have to go with Jesus Christ or at least the people that took his message and created a faith out of it…
In honor of that post, I’d like to advocate others that you might agree belong at the very top:
JD Salinger – His book ‘Catcher in the Rye’ was found on Mark David Chapman after he killed John Lennon. Surely, he is evil, at least his book is!
Karl Marx and Frederick Ingles - More lives have been lost at the hands of people who believed the Socialist/Communist dogma contained in their book ‘The Communist Manifesto’ then Vlad Tapas, Hitler, and the Spanish Inquisition combined. Surely they deserve as big a place as Jesus.
The Beatles – Their ‘White Album’ has been cited by various sources as the catalyst to Charles Manson’s killing spree in 1969 that left 7 dead including Sharon Tate and her unborn child.
Ray Kroc – The man who took over McDonald’s and marketed it to become one of the biggest and most successful junk-food chains in history, which spurred on other junk-food chains like Burger King, Wendy’s and Hardee’s. This man’s creation has killed millions through heart disease, obesity, and carcinogens galore. Surely, he’s more responsible for death and disease then Stalin, Hitler, Jesus and Mao combined.
Sure, none of these people actually killed anyone nor did any of them advocating killing anyone, however if Jesus and his followers are considered evil by the actions conducted by people who believed in him or listened to him, then these people are at least as evil.
Isn’t the internet FUN?
March 14th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Evil is one of those tricky words. What is evil? Just the same as asking what is good?
I could go on a philosophical rant here, but overall I feel that evil (and good) is the opinion of each single individual. For instance, dedicated neo-Nazis and skinheads may feel that what Hitler did was completely acceptable and “good”. I personally think it was far from acceptable to say the least and in my opinion Hitler’s actions were evil.
Overall I cannot personally decide which one man in history is evil. To me, Hitler was evil for feeling justified in mass extermination, child murderer/rapist/cannibal Albert Fish was evil for what he did to children, Stalin was evil for what he did to his country and my childhood neighbor was evil for poisoning and killing our dog because she barked too much (that is from my own personal history).
We should have another Your View titled: What does evil mean to you? or something along those lines. That would be an interesting read as well.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Brotherman-
Evil is causing harm of any kind to your fellow man. Neo-Nazis don’t think he was evil because they’re idiots.
Stalin and Hitler were definately evil, but we only think of them as being the most evil because they had a degree of power; political, military, etc. That doesn’t mean that evilness only exists with people in power, it just helps them express it. There are many, many people that are just as evil as those men that simply don’t have the power to carry through their desires.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Benito Mussolini was pretty evil. I have not yet seen him listed. Stalin is definately the ultimate evil though.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Typically, I try to avoid arguing with what I call ‘Hit and Run’ writers or posters. More times then not, these people are trolls, looking to disrupt a forum and seeking the attention mommy and daddy never gave them.
But every once and awhile, the most incredibly moronic statements come out and I feel obliged to point it out.
Such as this one:
Bush is the most evil living leader followed by Kim Jong-Il
I have to question anyone’s sanity or level of education when they would choose to live in Kim Jong-il’s North Korea over GW. Bush’s America, which is essentially what this writer is saying.
I doubt the original writer of that statement will come back to reply, so I will address to anyone who post’s GW. Bush as the most evil living or historical person:
While Bush is very unpopular, might have brought us into a war that was completely unnecessary, has enacted policies that have striped some of our most treasured human rights, enriched his cronies at the cost of current and future American taxpayers, authorized torture to be used on suspected terrorists, planned and executed the most devious and skilled terrorist act ever committed, sacrificed goats on an alter, and eaten live babies (did I miss anything?), even if guilty of all these things, Bush would still not be any closer to the most evil person in history then LBJ or FDR.
Look, folks, there’s a difference between disliking someone for their political beliefs and considering them on par with the ‘Prince of Darkness’. For all of us, we still have the luxury to use our computers, log into websites like this, and post our dislike for Bush. None of us here lack the ability to sit upright and type our hatred of the Bush Administration, from lack of available food. No one here has made any mention of their families or friends being rounded up and shipped out to concentration camps or simply shot. Furthermore, it would seem all of us here either can afford a computer, electricity and an ISP, or have access to one that does. I would say we are infinitely better off then anyone who lived under Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao or Kim Jong Il.
It’s so unfortunate that some people in this world have been so skewed in their thought process that they can only see the tree, instead of the entire forest. Whatever the cause, insanity, incredible ignorance or blinded hatred, they really need to take a look around them and realize how good they have it.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
jardojo: “Evil is causing harm of any kind to your fellow man. Neo-Nazis don’t think he was evil because they’re idiots.”
You raise a good point, my friend.
Define the word “evil” (personal bias with-holding). Then factually prove your opinion.
Insert opinion here:
March 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
brotherman: I can’t insert my opinion there!
March 14th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
In all serious Stalin wins by his nmbers, Mao and Hitler are neck in neck for second in my opinion.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Loose Cannon, while I agree that George Bush is probably not as evil as many people think, we don’t know all of the facts yet. If the absolute truth about 9/11, the Iraq War, and Bush’s close ties with Bin Laden reveals that he deliberately betrayed America, then he will skyrocket on the most evil list. There is another website called Rankopedia that has a ranking of the most evil people ever. Bush is currently in third place, behind Hitler and Stalin. I ranked him #1 just to irritate the right wing dolts who voted for Bush in the first place.
Bush might be merely incompetent rather than evil. Perhaps, but why the hell would you want a president that you have to decide if he’s evil or just plain stupid?
March 14th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Stalin, what a character. I thoroughly disagree with your ranking him as the most evil man in history. Yes he was responsible for the most deaths under one regime in history {depends on what you hear about Mao}, but you can’t argue with results; without Stalin, Hitler would have indubitably conquered the world. He took Russia and whipped it into an industrialized nation out of mud farmers, in order to defend her from the West, a brilliant foresight. Under the circumstances, it is remarkablemore didn’t die under his rule. There was not much malevolence to his killing, just a cold reality being enforced. Pol Pot, on the other hand, was the most evil bastard in history even though he killed 1/20 the people Stalin did. He was as twisted as a humanbeing can get.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
BrotherMan-
I like the definition Wikipedia gives:
Evil is a broad term used to indicate a negative moral or ethical judgment, often used to describe intentional acts that are cruel, unjust, or selfish. Evil is usually contrasted with good, which describes intentional acts that are kind, just, or unselfish.
..yeah, makes sense to me.
Notice in the definition that it points out negative moral or ethical judgment; as you made reference to Neo-Nazis, they have poor judgment in this regard, so that makes them unethical and evil. To be selfish means that you think only of yourself and not of your fellow man. People that don’t have the ability to make sound judgments on what is right or wrong are called sociopaths. I don’t feel the need to study what makes men evil or not evil. If someone murders, tortures, rapes, or injuries someone else physically or mentally its an evil act, and I’m okay believing that.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
So, Yogi, let me summarize what you’ve written:
1)Bush is probably not the most evil person, unless all the hysterical lies spread across the internet are true.
2)You ranked him as #1 on another website to gain attention from people you consider dolts.
3)Why would *I* want a president who’s actions and leadership need to be clarified as evil or dumb?
Yogi, you obviously have a beef with Bush and people who elected him. And of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I’m not here to argue the merits of the Bush presidency.
I agree with you that he doesn’t deserve to be nominated as the most evil person in history, and I’m sorry to hear you need the attention of right wing hacks to feel good about yourself.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Bush is not evil. He is not even stupid guys. He certainly wouldn’t have stayed in power this long if he was that dumb. He does seem to lack a certain depth of understanding. I could have told him that once in Iraq he either is going to have to stay or leave it in disarray. Never once read a book on the history of the middle east.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Mom – evil or not? Dunno. But he is definitely dumb. Count the websites that are full of Bush idiocies. And I crack up every time I think of “Brownie…You’re doing a heck of a job!”.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Loose Cannon – “For all of us, we still have the luxury to use our computers, log into websites like this, and post our dislike for Bush.”
You think that Bush would have continued to allow you this “luxury” if you didn’t have a Constitution to protect your right to freedom of expression ? Hint : Patriot Act.
But I agree with you that calling him evil is probably excessive.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
kiwiboi; I wonder how much of his stupidity is an act. It certainly takes up space that should be used asking and answering the big questions. Wonderful tool of deflection. What really scares me is not Bush, but the fact that damn near the majority of the population of the largest, most powerful nation in the world, support his crazy ass. It almost sucks the hope outta ya.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Mom – one day many folks in the US will look back, think of Dubya, and shake their heads in astonishment that they tolerated the fewl.
And, sure, some of the stupidity is probably an act. But he’s still never gonna be the sharpest tool in the box.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
kiwiboi – You think that Bush would have continued to allow you this “luxury” if you didn’t have a Constitution to protect your right to freedom of expression ? Hint : Patriot Act.
I not only ‘THINK’ he would, I know he would. HINT: I still have that “luxury”, don’t I?
Look, you can malign and construe Bush’s actions anyway you want, but the reality is you and I *do* have internet access, you *can* post anything you want, including lies, misinformation and half-truths, and you can do this all from the luxury of your home and/or office. Try visiting China, North Korea, or Cuba for a *REAL* taste of repression and quit bitching about what Bush *might* or *might not* do. He had a GOP Congress for 6 years, didn’t he?
My post was a strict comparison to what *REAL* dictatorships and repressive government do. Stop trying to twist what you think he could have done. Christ, you nutty leftists and your conspiracy theories get annoying.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
I think I am.
;D
March 14th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Loose Cannon – you are missing my point, which is : if you didn’t have constitutional rights to freedom of expression then Bush would sure as hell have interfered with your “luxuries”.
And I am most certainly not a “leftist”.
Also, just to convince me that you are not the moron that you are coming across as…what “conspiracy theories” are you referring to ? Enlighten me.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Seeker
The athiest atrocities web site needs to get its facts straight. Hitler and the Nazis credit views espoused by Martin Luther who created his own religion. The Nazi party believed that their godwanted a pure race, which led the ethnic cleansing of the Jews.
Hitler was raised Catholic, abandoned that faith and surely wasn’t a Christian (maybe in the Fred Phelps sense of the word) in your definition. But their was a belief in a God, just not your version.
It easy to assume that anyone that doesn’t conform to your definition of God, or Christian, or Belief is an athiest. My mother-in-law does it to me all the time. But I tell her that I don’t believe in her god, I just have my own ideas.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Most evil man in history ?! Stewie Griffin! Common’ that kid is pretty messed up.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
kiwiboi- you are missing my point, which is : if you didn’t have constitutional rights to freedom of expression then Bush would sure as hell have interfered with your “luxuries”.
No, I got you’re point very clear; you agree with me he’s not the most evil person, living or in history, but your fragile psyche can’t let him off that easy. You’re trying to pick an argument over what he could or would do if he didn’t have limited power. It’s very pathetic to watch.
History has shown, over and over again, that powerful men, bent on doing evil, have always found away around limited power, from the Emperors of Rome to Adolph Hitler and Stalin. Even FDR was able to take away the 5th Amendment rights of 100,000 Japanese-Americans.
Your weak supposition that Bush would take away our internet access, our right to freedom of speech, etc, is refuted by reality; he hasn’t. You just sound like a crazed conspirist.
This discussion is about the most evil man who ever lived. We both agree it’s not Bush. If you’re looking for support of what Bush would do or could do, from the crazed fringe point of view, then I suggest you head over to the DU forums. You’ll find plenty of crazed, hysterical points of view that will confirm you deepest, darkest fears.
Otherwise, I’m done with you. You’re dismissed.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
look, ive seen a few comments about Bush, he isn’t dumb, he just gives off the apperance that he is dumb, plus the whole iraq war doesn’t help.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Loose Cannon, I don’t feel good about all of the right wing dolts that voted for Bush. I assume you’re not American. Your comment towards me was rather pointless, wouldn’t you agree? Talk about annoying. I just read tour comment towards Kiwiboi. Let me explain somethng to you about Americans LC. Most of us are stubborn gun owners. Like the character from V For Vendetta said, we expect our leaders to be afraid of us, not the other way around.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
you guys are full of s****t
March 14th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Humans are the most evil….
March 14th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Loose Cannon, George Bush can’t committ atrocities against Americans because we wouldn’t let him. Besides, he’s way too big a douchebag to attract a large enough powerbase that would prop him up as a dictator. However, his personailty flaws are not that much different than many of the psychopaths that most people would agree, do belong on this list. Just one example, he is constantly lying, almost every single word from his mouth is a lie.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Unless you are arguing for a batsh*t crazy dictator, or offering up a convincing argument for a serial killer, your nomination is probably ridiculous.
We need to let go of religion. The people who started religions are generally not the bad guys. We also need to let go of the Bush thing… As far as I am concerned, he is a crappy person and a crappy president. But he is nowhere near the most evil man so why the debate on here? Bush is in power because he was up against two bland democratic candidates, not because he has a terrible, insidious charisma that allows him to gain power and kill millions.
Back to serial killers though… It is interesting to see someone like Stalin, who, it could be argued, had no respect for human life rather than a delight in death? Eh, maybe I shouldn’t say that, perhaps he did delight in death. But is a total disregard for human life as bad as someone who takes an orgasmic delight in torturing, raping, and butchering people the way some serial killers have? Perhaps we can just say that some of these dictators were serial killers, because they share the serial killer’s sadistic impulse, but have so much power they can take it to the grand scale.
March 15th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Nelia, the reason why I’m focusing on Bush because his presidency is the single greatest disaster to befall America. 9/11 would probably have been prevented if the rightfully elected person had assumed office. Unlike Hitler or Stalin or any serial killer, Bush’s transgressions are adversly affecting my life today. BTW how do you know George Bush doesn’t enjoy torturing and seeing people get killed? Everytime the subject is broached, he literally smirks and chuckles.
March 15th, 2008 at 1:12 am
Loose Cannon : Interesting. You make a general point about GW Bush not being evil, which I agree with. But I question part of your supporting argument and I am a “leftist” and a “conspiracy theorist” ???
Aside from your hysterical tone, you clearly have little in the way of intellect.
You are without doubt a moron.
“Otherwise, I’m done with you. You’re dismissed.” – case proven, I think.
And, whilst you say you are “done” with me, I bet you can’t resist responding again…am I right ?
March 15th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Yogi : “we expect our leaders to be afraid of us, not the other way around”
Great point, the essence of which is a universal truth.
March 15th, 2008 at 1:53 am
Stalin
Pol Pot
Genghis Han
Ayatollah Khomeini
Caligula
March 15th, 2008 at 2:37 am
chuck norris
March 15th, 2008 at 7:57 am
jesus
March 15th, 2008 at 8:36 am
shit, some one real evil is the head of the cigarette corporation, 100,000 deaths and probably more a year, and its still legal, of course i don’t have anything against people who smoke, i just find it wrong.
March 15th, 2008 at 10:39 am
My roomate that is a lesbian and looks like a rat
March 15th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
nuh huh hitler for sure
have you read the book Alicia: My Story?!
March 15th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Maybe we should come up with some qualifications before we decide on names. Might make things easier…
1.Actions must results in death of innocents. Bonus points if the deaths are slow, painful,humiliating etc.
(A note on Deaths-Deaths do not have to be the intent of the evil actions, for example, someone who causes needless starvation, or spreads disease, or experiments that result in death)
2. Deaths must be numerous (ie. Stalin trumps Hitler because he killed more)
3. Evil deeds must be INTENTIONAL,not the result of ignorance, or stupidity, (Sorry GW-you’re off the list)
4.Huge Bonus points if Evils acts are passed off as “good” in some way (Ie serial killers may not make this list as they relish in being evil-but leaders who think they are “fixing” things make the list–double points for evil in God’s name)-Ayatollah Khomeini makes the cut, as well as Spanish inquisitors-not sure who to name in that one-Pope? King of Spain???
5.Evil deeds should not be the result of obvious mental disease (no points to those suffering from schizophrenia, dementia, brain tumor etc, which causes them to commit acts of evil-our evil dudes should be generally mentally healthy.) This may again, knock some serial killers off the list.
6. Good Deeds do not cancel Evil. Stalin may have saved Russia from Hitler, that doesn’t stop him from being an evil bastard. Il Duce may have got the trains running on time in Italy, Hitler may have initially helped the German economy-they’re still evil
So, considering applicants who meet the preceding Criteria here’s a start-in no particular order:
Stalin
Hitler (and most of his cronies)
Ayatollah Khomeini
Pol Pot
Idi Amin
and Many others I can’t think of at this time…
Off the list:
George Bush (dumb, but not evil)
Scientists who invented the A-bomb (I hope we realize this would effectivley make Einstein evil…)
Inventors of Religions who didn’t directly kill people (Seriously-how the !@#$ does Jesus and The Prophet Mohammed make the list? Having evil followers doesn’t make one evil by default)
March 15th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
George Steinbrener
March 15th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Mike Krapchevski
March 15th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
As for America in modern times, John Wayne Gacy was just plain scary evil, while Jim Jones used the name of God to do his work.
In the world during the 1900s, Hitler wins my vote hands-down. While Stalin supposedly killed more, that’s not the only part of being “evil.” Hitler attempted to, in the long run, eliminate everyone he found inferior. He had sick, perverse goals for his world. He ordered all of the sickening human experimentation that the Nazis, namely under Mengele. Plus, people still commit crimes under Hitler’s name to this day. He had a much larger impact–that’s why he has more room in my History book as well.
In the entire history of the planet, Muhammad/Allah/whoever wrote the Qu’ran. The entire Muslim culture is raised to believe that destroying non-Muslims is a one-way ticket to Paradise. I don’t believe that murder is any way to heaven, no matter who is killed. This religion is based on the idea that God hates certain people. It’s slightly perverse, actually.
March 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Yogi, I’m just curious, but you say George W. Bush’s “transgressions” are adversly affecting your life today. I’m finding it a little hard to believe that your way of life has changed much since 2000, but I’m willing to give you the opportunity to lay out examples of how George W. Bush has had a real impact on your life before saying you are completely full of BS.
March 16th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
There have been a lot of evil men throughout history, most of whom we probably have never even heard of. How does one judge why one evil person is more evil than another? I’d say certain individuals were more depraved than others. For instance, I would definately say that Jeffrey Dahmer was more depraved than Adolph Hitler, even though both were equally evil (or rather, committed evil acts.) Hitler may have order the mass execution of an entire race of people, but as far as I know, he never partook in cannibalism, necrophilia, or using sulpheric acid on living brain tissue to create a zombie sex slave of some time. Both evil…the latter far more depraved in the traditional sense. However, if we are going purely on how far-reaching the evil acts of any one man have been, and thus the title of “most evil man in history,” the answer, as always, comes down to the Big Two: Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin. Of the two, the winner is always Joseph Stalin, though because he was our ally in WWII, history has favored our eternal enemy Adolph Hitler as most evil man.
March 16th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Wait wait wait…Jesus? Bush? Seriously? Grow up, you guys. If you think Jesus was evil, you have a very seriously skewed perspective on reality and to be honest, I feel a little scared sharing a planet with someone as ass-backwards as you. I’ll try to make this is as plain as possible so there is no way for your tiny little brain to misconstrue what I am trying to say: If you believe Jesus is evil…or “most evil” in history…YOU ARE STUPID. Very, very mind-numbingly stupid. I highly suggest you make your way to the nearest clinic for immediate sterilization so we can save the rest of the population from facing the catastophe of your DNA entering the gene pool. Also, I think it is important that we save your (possible) future children from you by eliminating the possibility of their existence.
Further, those who think Bush is evil…wrong. Not evil. If you honestly believe this, you are someone who is not politically-minded, does not watch the news or try to follow along with the daily affairs of this country, do not try to be informed or up-to-date on any sort of important political information, do not tend to think for yourselves, and (I’d be willing to bet a dime to a dollar) that you tend to run with the crowd, are incredibly insecure, and latch on to the feeble notions of your friends in a desperate attempt to fit in and be liked.
March 16th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Dave, Are you kidding me? Where to begin? My home was worth $425,000 in 2000, it’s now worth $325,000. Euros cost .80 dollars, now it’s $1.50. Unemployment in my state was below 4%, now it’s over 6% and climbing fast. Inflation is through the roof. Violent crime rate is also starting to climb again. Our Dept of Justice is devoting most of it’s resources going after Bush’s political opponents, rather than the white collar criminals. He usurped the state’s rights to enact and enforce the consumer protection laws that would have prevented the sub-prime mortgage scandal. He overturned environmental laws that have made our water and air dirtier. He pushed the No Child Left Behind Act which made our kids stupider, then he vetoed SCHIP which made them sicker. He collaborated with the pharmaceutical companies to pass a bill that tacked on another trillion dollars to our national debt. Since he took office, my personal share of the national debt went from $20,000 to $30,000.
Let’s see, am I forgetting anything?
Slick Willie, I might suggest that anyone who doesn’t see why Bush is evil is morally retarded. I will see your bet and raise you a thousand dollars that you don’t even have friends with whom you can fit in or be liked by.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Yogi, you sir are a fool. Bush is a fuck up, I’ll give you that. But…. first of all, what the hell do you think the national debt is? Its certainly not the sum of everyone’s private debts… its the money the government owes on issued bonds and other assets. I won’t even mention the rediculous accusation you made.. blaming bush for your poor spending habits (i.e. taking on another 10,000 in debt). Second, Inflation is projected at around 4.0% … in the last 50 years, the average has been 4.1% …. through the roof? Hardly.
Regardless of your apparent sub-college education and knowledge of basic econonomics, Bush is no more evil than the collective of people like you who drive down our economy through lack of knowledge, preparation, and any sense of socio-economic awareness.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:47 am
I agree completely Matt. Bush is hardly to blame for everyone’s personal debts or problems. Sure hes a bad president, but he wasn’t to blame for your extra 10000 dollars in debt.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Yogi: Hahaha
You make me laugh. Bush is not evil. *Maybe* dumb, but I even think he is smarter than a lot of people give him credit for. Certainly not evil. My comment wasn’t specifically directed at you, but since you seem to think that somehow Bush’s bumbling foreign policy and lack of solid, long-term economic planning make him evil, then my initial assessment applies to you.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:01 am
SlickWilly:
Wait a sec. Any man who professes to be a statesman and leader, who, as governor of Texas, mocked a woman on deathrow…. in front of reporters… with a mock whine, going, “Ohhhh, please please don’t kill me!” … such a man IS evil.
Any man who, professing to be a statesman and leader, who knowingly lies about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, in order to prosecute a war there, STRICTLY in order to further his own agenda and that of his neocon toadies–causing the USELESS and unnecessary deaths of *thousands*—such a man is more than a little evil.
Any man who, professing to be a statesman and leader, who through SHEER ARROGANCE displays a bullying, unilateral, “I am right and everyone else is wrong” attitude in his foreign policy and in his relations with ALLIES, let alone with nations hostile to us—such a man has a touch of evil about him.
Let’s stop excusing this bastard, okay? I never would have imagined, in my lifetime, a worse president than Richard Nixon–but it happened. And let’s stop covering it up and pretending Bush *isn’t* that. He is.
And these people (such as MattM) excusing Bush for what he’s done to our economy—I DO have a knowledge of basic economics, pal… and an above-average, beyond college education. And while I acknowledge that the greed and selfishness and shortsightedness of many Americans has helped bring us to the state we’re in… we must NOT also excuse Bush for this debacle, as his policies–not just economic–have been a big part of what’s driven us to the condition we now face.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Randall: Eh, no I still don’t see any of those things as particularly evil. I think that is ascribing an emotional reaction to an objective state of affairs.
“Any man who professes to be a statesman and leader, who, as governor of Texas, mocked a woman on deathrow…. in front of reporters… with a mock whine, going, ‘Ohhhh, please please don’t kill me!’”
I don’t think that’s evil…just in incredibly bad taste and shows a severe lack of judgement.
“Any man who, professing to be a statesman and leader, who knowingly lies about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, in order to prosecute a war there, STRICTLY in order to further his own agenda and that of his neocon toadies–causing the USELESS and unnecessary deaths of *thousands*”
No argument here, though I don’t think that makes him any more evil than any other president who has intentionally misused facts in order to further their own agenda. Conniving, scheming, insidious, yes. Bad, yes. Evil? No.
“Any man who, professing to be a statesman and leader, who through SHEER ARROGANCE displays a bullying, unilateral, ‘I am right and everyone else is wrong’ attitude in his foreign policy and in his relations with ALLIES, let alone with nations hostile to us”
Again, not necessarily an act of evil, again just poor judgement, ignorance, and a massive superiority complex.
I’m not arguing that Bush isn’t the worst president of the last 40 years, and one of the worst ever. He is ignorant, arrogant and lacks common sense. However, to classify this man as “evil” in the traditional sense, to put him up among the ranks of Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot…even non-tyannical evil men like Albert Fish, Ted Bundy, and Jeffrey Dahmer…I would say that is quite an over-statement. I’m not excusing Bush, it just irritates me that most people claim to hate Bush without really knowing why, and for some people to take that to an extreme by calling him “evil” when he clearly is not, that is unacceptable for me. Call him evil if you want, I still think that is a gross, emotional exaggeration.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Matt M, What are you talking about? I don’t have any personal debt, not even a mortgage anymore. I came up with that $30,000 number by estimating the national debt and dividing by 300 million, which is the population of the US. It’s not meant to be accurate.
Your inflation figure is off as well. Food, energy, and healthcare are up about 17% combined, with food leading the way at 33%. It is going through the roof.
Now let’s examine your assertion that it’s people like me who are driving down the economy. I was against the war in Iraq, you were for it. That’s 12 billion dollars a month right there. The there is the sub-prime mortgage fiasco. When Bush came into office he relaxed government oversight of the banking industry. A company called Countrywide sprung up like a mushroom in cow dung. They are basically scam artists. In America, the states are allowed to legislate and enforce the kind of consumer protection laws that would have prevented Countrywide from operating. Bush usurped that right.
Another example of Bush usurping states’ rights happened to us in California. We passed a law that would have required cars sold here to get better gas mileage. One of the first things Bush did after taking office, was to override that law. The consequences of that stupidity are enormous. If Detroit had produced cars that met our standards, they would be more competitive today.
Just one more thing Matt. If you are going to use the word ridiculous in the same post where you called somebody foolish and uneducated, you should at least spell it correctly, otherwise you come off looking rediculous.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Yogi Barrister:
I’m behind you 100%, brother. In total agreement.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:48 am
I’m going to tastefully exit this conversation, since it seems we are pretty much in agreement over “most evil men” and because I don’t particularly like to think about Bush any more than I have to. I’ve made my feelings known. I don’t believe Bush is evil. I can see why some might say that, but personally, it takes more than that for someone to be evil in my mind. A non-evil person can occasionally commit evil acts through ignorance and arrogance, but that doesn’t necessarily make the person evil.
I was joking earlier, btw Yogi. Gross exaggeration on my part, though not without a bit of esoteric ill humor. *You* seem to have a reason to hate Bush. A lot of people hate him and don’t really know why, other than because their parents or friends hate him. *That* is what burns my biscuit.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:51 am
SlickWilly;
Then you tell me what IS evil then. One of the aspects of it, I believe, is that someone knowingly does harmful things, things that even lead, perhaps, to the death or at least ruination of others–and do so without thought or care of how it will affect those people.
THAT is George Bush.
And I never said that I would rank him with Stalin, et al. Of course not. Nevertheless, I believe the man to be a junior-grade evil, and it IS his unilateral decision vis a vis Iraq that has ended up killing more people than ANY serial killer. That was *one man’s* decision—George Bush. And yes, I do feel there is a difference between this decision and that of other presidents who have taken us into war (at least in modern memory). The only possible exception would be Nixon’s incursions into Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam war.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Slick, I know exactly why I think Bush is evil. He has many of the same socio-pathic tendancies of the people you just cited.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Randall, thanks! However I still don’t want you tagging along on my fantasy date with Tina Fey.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Slick, I think Randall just offered up the perfect compromise. Bush is only junior-grade evil, especialy when compared to Dick Cheney. You are of course correct when you say I’m exaggerating. Bush is more of a pebble in my shoe than a demon from Hell.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:56 am
A pebble that should be removed and never should have been there in the first place. I’m willing to compromise. *I* don’t think Bush is evil, but I can see why he could be considered such, and there are very valid reasons to think that. I’m not saying you shouldn’t consider Bush evil (so long as its for the right reasons), I’m just saying that *I* don’t consider him evil.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:02 am
It’s so unfortunate that these conversations tend to break down due ‘Bush Derangement Syndrome’ sufferers. These fools want to argue that, though Bush is not the MOST evil, he is still very evil.
And why do these twisted souls consider Bush evil? Let’s take a look:
Yogi:
The national debt has increased, unemployment in his home state is up, and his home value is down. Bush deregulated certain banking regulations, allowed Countrywide to ’sprung up like a mushroom in cow dung’ (although how Bush allowed this to happen when the company was founded in 1968 is unclear), ‘overrode a state law’ to raise CAFE standards (shudder), and generally allowed things to get more expensive.
You know what’s sad? Yogi really believes this is some diabolical plot instead of the typical up and downs of a free-market economy and differences in opinion on economic policy.
Then there’s Randall:
Bush mocked a murderers plea for a pardon, ‘knowingly’ lied about WMD in Iraq, (even though the previous president insisted they had them and Iraq refused to comply with UN inspections), fails to follow Randall’s ideals in foreign policy, and, like Yogi’s reason, has pursued a different opinion on economic policy.
Wow. Just wow.
I wonder, does that make Jimmy Carter the most evil man in history for his economic policy failures and foreign policy gaffs?
LBJ misled the American people and Congress into the Vietnam war, by conjuring up the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, which led to the death of 58,000 American soldiers. He also saddled us with some of the worst entitlement programs in our nations history. Does that make him evil, as well?
My point is this: If you really think Bush is ‘EVIL’, you have no idea what real evil is. You sit in your plush homes, using your free speech and market generated technology, and you bitch and whine about the ‘evil’ man in the White House.
Waah, ‘My $400K home is only worth $350K’, ‘He made fun of a murderer’, ‘He refuses to listen the allies I believe he should listen to’.
Stop acting like a couple of spoiled, whiny teenage girls and get back to the real topic of this message board: The Most Evil Man.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Loose Cannon, another indication of Bush’s evil is how he’s able to manipulate unformed minds like yours. What is the counterpart to Bush Derangement Syndrome? What do you call people who reflexively defend every venal act that man commits? For example, only an evil president would out a covert CIA agent for petty political reasons. It was an act of treason, pure and simple. Anyone who defends Bush on this one is suffering from some kind of mental illness.
BTW I didn’t say Countrywide was founded during Bush’s first term. I meant the federal regulations which prohibited predatory lending practices were rolled back, thus paving the way for the financial crisis we are experiencing.
March 17th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Well I’ve stated my opinion on Bush elsewhere, but I do have one question for Randall – if it was so obviously wrong to go to war in Iraq, why didn’t the Congress stop him? They had access to the same information that he did.
The answer is they didn’t stop him, they believed the information they had and over 90% of them voted to go to war. Same for England. It wasn’t his unilateral decision. And it doesn’t mean that if Sadaam did indeed have the weapons, he wouldn’t use them. He would have.
Before you pummel me with George Bush fanboy slurs, I am not his champion. But we must not ignore the facts, Congress AS WELL AS the President AS WELL AS Great Britain wanted us to go to war. I get a little tired of that fact being brushed aside just because of everyone’s distaste for Bush.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
I would have thought it was a toss up between Stalin and Hitler, at least for last century, but after having read Jung Chang’s biography of Mao, he takes the trophy. Responsible for the death of some 73 million people – in peacetime – and terrorised the people of China. This sounds like hyperbole, but please read the book.
Of course the most evil person of all time would be MOHAMMAD, a mass murderer, pedophile and all round nasty old guy and originator of that book of hate, the Koran.
There are today hundreds of millions of people who are enslaved by this war mongering religion. Remember, “Islam is a religion of peace,” meaning that once we all become Muslims there will be peace. This is really what they believe. For a good understanding about what is actually in the Koran without going through the pain of actually reading it, take a look at http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=5P7Y_moX1V0&feature=related
March 17th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
bucslim; I don’t believe George Bush to be evil either; hugely flawed – bigoted, shallow, arrogant, spoiled, manipulative, cowardly, sly, insincere, dishonest – the man is a total douche bag – but not truly evil. I must say his statements justifying torture leave me with some niggling doubt, but his obvious bigotry (blame that on his parents) and arrogance, and the unfortunate agreement of a large portion of society, might just explain his stance. He has a sense of entitlement and an instinct for self preservation second to none. The whole Iraq war was intended to deflect attention from his obvious failure at the WTC. As an added bonus he got to please Papa and punish Saddam at the same time. He’s a canny fucker.
As I said before, still more scary to me, is the fact that a near majority of the American Public support this semi-sociopath.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
bucslim; I forgot to address your point about Congress and Britain agreeing to War. They were manipulated, as was the American public. C’mon how many Americans to this day believe al qaeda to be in cahoots with Saddam? Any reading at all and you know they were a threat to his rule. Same with the imaginary WMDs. I just bet their are a ton of Americans out there that believe that one too.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Bush shouldn’t be being discussed in this list, anyone with even a little perspective and a marginal acquaintance with history would know that. Mildly incompetent, yes, well meaning, yes, evil, no. Not even naughty.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Mom,
All legitimate points. Torture isn’t acceptable as well. Except for the fact that these people mean to kill you. And they think they have a righteous cause to kill you. Their intent is to kill, cripple and destroy us. To some, that makes torture more palatable, but that’s not what this country stands for, or at least should stand for. We’re supposed to be better than that.
To be clear, I am not a Bush fan, or a close minded Republican and I rarely watch Fox News. I recognize this is a giant mess. But there is good news coming out of Iraq – some signs that it just might work out. It’s the dogged determination of the liberal left that wants us to fail, wants our soldiers to come home in disgrace, and wants us to pull up stakes and leave without cleaning up the mess we made. And they can’t scurry and hide fast enough from their previous vote for the war. Promises have been made, good and decent Iraqi people need our support – yes that means military force. Leaving them in the lurch would be disasterous for the region.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Bravo, Dave of Sydney, Mom424, and, as always, Bucslim. At least there are still some sane and rational people on this website.
As Dave so perfectly put it: “anyone with a little perspective and a marginal knowledge of history would know Bush isn’t truly evil.”
Yogi Barrister-For example, only an evil president would out a covert CIA agent for petty political reasons. It was an act of treason, pure and simple. Anyone who defends Bush on this one is suffering from some kind of mental illness.
Yogi, I am so glad you picked this example to rest your crown of evil’ on Bush, simply because it was proven beyond any reasonable doubt that a) No criminal violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act took place and b) it had absolutely nothing to do with Bush.
For details I suggest you pick up a newspaper from that time period or read Time or Newsweek’s fairly good coverage of the incident. While Scooter Libby was found guilty of Obstruction of Justice and Perjury, he was not found guilty of violating the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act, nor were Vice President Dick Cheney or President Bush implicated by Special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald.
This is just another perfect example of what we mean when we say Bush Derangement Syndrome. No matter what the evidence states, no matter what the facts reveal, no matter who might be responsible for the actual violation of a crime, if any, ultimately Bush is to blame, from you’re high unemployment in your state to your sagging home price values.
I’m curious; Unemployment has actually gone done significantly in my my state, does Bush get the credit for that, or is it still his fault? When you stub your toe, do you blame Bush for that as well?
March 17th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Bucslim; You are correct, Iraq cannot be left in disarray, and you would be leaving them in a lurch. But the Americans must be replaced immediately if not sooner with UN peacekeeping forces.
Americans are widely reviled in the Middle East. You are seen as arrogant and rightly so, at least at a national level and at an organizational level. My dad, a retired RCAF NCO of high rank trained with Americans. He had nothing good to say about their training programs. His words, “too much Cowboy – not enough discipline”(he asserts this to be the cause of most friendly fire incidents involving the American Military). People react strongly to this attitude. You cannot control a populace, when the population hates you.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Loose Cannon, it doesn’t matter whether or not BushCo broke any laws when they outed Valerie Plame. It was an act of evil, ther is simply no defending it. You are also mistaken when you say Bush dodn’t know about it. Rove’s connection to the scandal has been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt. Your assertion doesn’t stand the smell test. You also don’t understand how harmful this act of evil was. Bush put all of Brewster-Jennings’ sources in the region in grave jeopardy, and deterred any informants from providing reliable intel to our troops. Brewster-Jennings was set up to assess Iran and Iraq’s nuclear capabilities. Don’t you think some of their former associates could have been useful today? Well guess what? They were compromised, and for what?
BTW Neither Hitler nor Stalin broke any of their countries laws either. Does that get then off the hook.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
I’m gonna go with Hitler or Pol Pot.
Wasn’t Atilla the Hun pretty bad too though?
March 18th, 2008 at 3:12 am
I don’t know who to say was most evil.
About Hitler:
Hitler was a nut case. He hated jews because his jewish art teacher critisized his talent for painting, (he made peoples heads too big). After WW1 Germans had what you could call a collective identity crisis. Hitler preached about restoring the honor back to the german people. He was elected because people thought he would make Germany a more respected nation. Everyone played into it, went along with his evil ideas.
An example of another evil man is Hernando DeSoto, a spanish explorer in America. When his crew explored the Mississippi region they simply shot every Native American they saw, they wiped out every village they came across. They saw Indians as nonhumans that were in the way of european settlers.
March 18th, 2008 at 4:41 am
Michael Jackson, no question he is an evil child molesting bastard
March 18th, 2008 at 5:57 am
Yogi Barrister – Loose Cannon, it doesn’t matter whether or not BushCo broke any laws when they outed Valerie Plame.
It doesn’t matter if any laws were broken? We’re going to start charging people with treason even if they haven’t broken any laws? Wow. Just wow.
The point is is that there is a law, the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Journalist Bob Woodward of The Washington Post revealed on November 15, 2005 that “a government official with no axe to grind” (Richard Armitage) leaked to him the identity of outed CIA officer Valerie Plame in mid-June 2003. Furthermore, Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald “found no evidence that Armitage knew of Plame’s covert CIA status when he talked to Novak and Woodward”.
Yogi, seek help. You are obviously in need of treatment if you think we should start locking people up for treason when no laws have been broken.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Loose Cannon:
Don’t dare try to tell me I don’t know what evil is, you pompous right-wing apologist.
And don’t give me this dismissive crap about sitting in “plush homes,” pal. You have no knowledge of my situation or anyone else’s… and certainly have no right whatsoever to ascribe hypocrisy to me or any other individual on this sight without cause.
The amazing thing is, you don’t even hear yourself:
“You sit in your plush homes, using your free speech and market generated technology, and you bitch and whine about the ‘evil’ man in the White House.”
This little rant is so anti-democratic I don’t know where to begin. So we should all just shut up and do as our Great Leader says, eh, “Loose?” We have no right to complain? We shouldn’t complain? Is that what you’re saying? That we should all just enjoy what we have and let the Great Leader do his thing with no interference or trouble from us… even if we think he’s doing wrong?
And I know, you blowhard twit, what your next statement will be…. that the proper redress for such things is during an election. So… good Americans are just supposed to shut up and sit still no matter what their president does, as long as he wins elections? We’re not to voice concerns or call a spade a spade if we choose to?
You blind ass. You sorry excuse for an American.
I am sick to death of your kind. You want to know something “Loose Cannon?” *I* was once a Conservative Republican. I was a Reagan Conservative—a College Republican at an exclusive university in the 1980s. *I* was one of those deluded freaking foot soldiers for the “cause” when I was in my 20s. I bought into this kind of attitude you display—and then I woke up out of my stupor and realized how betrayed we all were–how we’d accomplished nothing but to support a bunch of lying opportunists and an ideology that hid behind patriotism and religion and “traditional values” while in reality despising the poor and intending absolutely NO change in how things were run–or, rather–was out to change things only for THEIR kind. I’d been led to believe that conservatism was out to help people where liberalism had failed. Then I finally saw what an illusion this was, what a gigantic hypocrisy it was. I saw some peers, in the university I attended, go on to become class-conscious asshole yuppies who look on poor people as dirt, who thought greed and selfishness were huge positives, who emulated and admired the most crooked, scheming bastards on Wall Street and in Washington.
I let a lot slide over the years. I’ve apologized for Ronald Reagan until I was sick with myself. I found it nauseating to try to apologize for the likes of Bush senior and worse, Newt Gingrich and his ilk. Thankfully I came to my senses many years ago and realized what an awful mistake I’d made, ever believing in such people and such an ideology.
But I will not stand by and let people like you freely flap your ignorant mouths, covering up for an incompetent and bullying monster like George W. Bush.
YES, “Loose,” if I believe George Bush is doing wrong… doing horrible things—I WILL complain. And your jingoistic nonsense won’t dissuade me or anyone else who’s seen what I’ve seen.
And just what are you espousing? That a good American shuts up and lets it happen? What a tool you are, if you believe such a thing, you deluded ideologue. And are you claiming that we have George Bush to thank for our freedom of speech? I’d laugh at this, if it wasn’t so disgusting. No thank you, “Loose.” I’ll thank the people who really protect our freedoms–yes, our soldiers, but also those people who stand up to party lines and government propaganda, to media conglomerates… people who demand that the truth be told, and fight for it. I’ll thank my father and five of my uncles, all of whom fought *in combat* in WWII. But I won’t thank George Bush and his ilk, when they’ve done nothing but weaken and compromise our freedoms and what we are supposed to stand for.
And I won’t thank Bush for an economy that he’s almost single-handedly sent careening into a downward spiral.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Loose Cannon, are you daft? You are making a legal argument to defend an act of evil. Please address my point that Hitler and Stalin didn’t break the law either. If the law allows you to commit evil, like say genocide, and you partake, guess what, you are evil.
You’ve also completely ignored the damaging consequences of Bush’s betrayal, when he outed Valerie Plame.
BTW In regards to Joe Wilson. Do you realize every single fact he wrote in his report was the Gospel truth. And every single thing the Bush administration and the rightwing nutters used to try and discredit that report was a provable lie. So Loose Cannon, you better think long and hard about this. You are promoting and perpetuating evil by defending it.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:38 am
For those who say Bush is evil you are not totally, wrong for those who say he is not evil you too are not totally wrong. American foregin policies can be classified as evil, those countries who do not follow our wishes have incredibly harsh UN sanctions which deprive the people, and not there governments of medical care, fresh water and other things. Well i gotta goto work id love to explain more maybe i will later
March 18th, 2008 at 9:48 am
ok…so, give it to them, Bush is the MOST EVIL MAN! If thats the case, I think we live in near paradise…He’s not THAT bad.
Either Way, though, I’d like all who think this way to give any valid reason why Bush is worse than either Stalin or Hitler.
P.S. Yogi Barrister: Laws are variable and evil should not be judged based on any rules of the time, but rather the violation of natural rights of human beings
March 18th, 2008 at 9:52 am
F451:
I never said Bush was the most evil man in history smartass, nor that he should even be in some top ten. I merely state that he *is* evil.
No rational person thinks Bush is worse than Stalin or Hitler.
But likewise, no rational, honest person can deny that Bush has done evil things and *is* an evil man.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:14 am
….Then why are you discussing it on the MOST EVIL MAN discussion?
and to assert that “no rational, honest person…” is kind of ridiculous. I would say most people would include “intent to do harm” in their definition of evil. A bumbling idiot who has messed up his entire term-yes…. evil-at the very LEAST debatable.
But then again, apparently I am an irrational, dishonest, smartass according to you…
March 18th, 2008 at 10:18 am
President Bush is not a good leader and has made poor and sometimes foolish choices. This does not make one evil.
Several rulers throughout history, the Roman Caesars come to mind, lived an existence of hedonism and evil behavior. So much so, they were dispensed of by their closest cohorts.
Is it coincidence that Hitler likened himself to the ruler of a new incarnation of the Roman Empire?
March 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
F451:
Yes, in fact, you *are* an irrational, dishonest smartass.
The intent of the list is irrelevant; I never advocated Bush as a choice for “the Most Evil Man”… he came up and a debate started. What’s your point? Are you incapable of handling two different, but related threads within a discussion? Who is the most evil man in history? Discuss. Is George Bush evil? Discuss. I see no problem with this. Why do you?
I already made points way up above why I believe Bush is worse than a mere “bumbling idiot,” that he HAS in fact done things that have harmed people–and that he INTENDED to cause said harm.
Try reading the posts before you comment on them.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:47 am
“P.S. Yogi Barrister: Laws are variable and evil should not be judged based on any rules of the time, but rather the violation of natural rights of human beings”
F451, I couldn’t have put that any better. It is exactly my point. You can’t make a legal argument about whether certain acts are evil, you have to make a moral one.
I don’t apologize for bringing up Bush on this thread. It’s off topic, but quite frankly, it generates more interest than discussing Hitler and Stalin. Plus we are all being affected by Bush’s policies right now, so this debate is more important than trying to determine whi is the most evil person in history.
March 18th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I believe that the most “evil” individuals are those who have it in their power to do something to stop the Adolph Hitlers and Joseph Stalins of the world and either do not act to stop them and through their inactivity help to bring them top power. I think a good example of this sort of evil would be the UK’s pre-WWII PM Neville Chamberlain who, at the the Munich Conference in 1938, agreed (with the collusion of other European leaders) to allow Hitler to annex Czechoslovakia’s Sudetenland to Germany. It is probable that if Chamberlain and enough other leaders had refused to appease Hitler and make known that they would declare war on Germany if she unilaterally sought to expand her borders at the expanse of her neighbors Hitler would have backed down.
March 18th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
RANDALL…YOU ARE A FOOL!
-IT NEEDED TO BE SAID
March 18th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
This is easy.
Dick Cheney. It makes you wonder what sort of deal the Devil had to make with God to have him live as long as he has. Satan knows damn well that Dick will be running the show down there within hours of his arrival.
March 18th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
In my opinion, it is a tie between the two following individuals:
#1: Gegory Rasputin–Because only a truly evil man ould cling to life for so long, and survive the horrible things he went through. (Because of his being an evil man in the first place, when conspirators attempted to assasinate him, they fed him cakes and wine laced with enough cyanide to kill several men,; he was not affected. Then, he was shot in the chest, but when they went to eamine the body, he began to atack them. He then made a run for it, and was shot again, this time in the back. The conspirators ran straight to him and bludgened him into unconsciousness. They then tied him up and hurled hi into the freezing Neva River. He died of drowning.)
#2: George Washington–He caused the French and Indian war when he fired upon a French fort by accident, this in turn led to the taxes imposed by Parliament to pay for the war costs, which as we all know caused the American Revolution. The American Revolution inspired the French Revolution which in turn led to the rise of Napoleon. Napoleon led to chaos in the European structure and the rise of Germany and the Bolshevik revolution. This chaos led to WWI. WWI led to the Great Depression and WWII and Hitler and Stalin in Communist USSR. After WWII, the A-Bomb and Stalin led to the Cold War, the Cold War led to Communist expansion and Korea and Vietnam. These expensive wars led to an increase in Oil demands and the relocated Jews increased tension in the Oil Producing areas leading to conflicts in the Middle East. These conflicts led to Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden, which led to Desert Shield and the war on terrorism today. Thank You George Washington!
March 18th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Rational, not only was your comment about Randall utterly pointless, you had to use all caps. It’s like having an obnoxious loudmouth drunk yelling in your ear.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Rosa: Your #2 is nothing more than the “Butterfly flapping it’s wings” Chaos theory. War is Inevitable. To say that GW is the cause of all of our war problems is like me saying that the crap you took last year is the cause of Global warming. Shit happens.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Crimanon: Oh my goodness….! Mybe the crap i took last year WAS the cause of global warming!!! Nah, just kidding, the GW idea was my brother’s, and it made sense to me, so i included it in my comment. Although war IS inevitable, perhaps those particular events and those particular people wouldn’t have been involved. Of course, your coment inspired the thought that there is always the possibility that even worse events and people would have taken place if GW hadnt fired on that particular French fort, so either way, we’re screwed.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Rosa, you have a wonderfully dark sense of humor.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Shiro Ishii. Imagine vivisecting people… ugh! gruesome!
March 19th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Yogi Barrister, Was that a cmpliment?…because it was taken as one…
March 19th, 2008 at 9:21 am
RationalHuman:
Hmm… what an amusingly ironic choice for a name.
Pinhead.
March 19th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Mike Garrison:
Don’t be so quick to buy into the simplistic notion that the British and French bear some blame for WWII because they didn’t stand up to Hitler. This seems, on the face of it, to be a reasonable assumption to make–and it’s true, we can safely believe that, had Hitler been stared down at Munich, that not only would he have backed down–but he may have been overthrown by his own military shortly thereafter. BUT… there are a number of factors that prevented this from happening, and it was not merely due to some spinelessness on the part of Neville Chamberlin.
What you have to remember is that the French in particular had paid dearly in WWI. Almost an entire generation of young Frenchmen had been literally wiped out. The French, therefore, were more than a little queasy about the idea of fighting another war. In addition, neither the French nor the English had geared up for war during the 20s and the 30s…. they had let their military spending decline and neither country was adequately prepared. Even so, by 1938, the combined military of the two nations could have handled Germany–Hitler and his generals knew this, and feared having to face an iron-willed pair of allies on the West. Hitler, ever the wily risk-taker, however, also knew that he could intimidate and bluff the English and French long enough to make gains without war. Even so–he was in part *hoping* for war as early as 38.. and was disgusted to some extent, when the allies appeased him yet again.
The allies, however, knew none of this. Chamberlain only knew that his French allies were dragging their heels, stating that they were not ready for war… and his own advisors were telling him the same about the British military.
Moreover, there was a certain reticence on the part of some of the British hierarchy to go to war with Hitler. They wanted to use him as a bulwark against Soviet Russia. Even so, most of them were resigned to the fact that, given Hitler’s policies and expansionism, that sooner or later they were going to have to check him.
They simply wanted to put it off as long as possible, to give them time to prepare—and steel their nervous French allies.
This finally occurred a year later, when Germany invaded Poland.
It’s true that had they stood up to Hitler the year before, that he would have backed down, and perhaps it would have even been the end of him… but they didn’t know that. They were being cautious, while also mindful that their home populations were by no means enthusiastic about the idea of another war.
March 19th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
I would just like it to go on record right now at this point in time that I never voted for Bush any time!!! LOL
March 19th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Ata Turk is really evil, he started the Armenian Genocide which ended up influencing Adolf Hitler to start the holocaust
March 20th, 2008 at 4:40 am
If I had to choose, I’d say – myself.
But seriously. Stalin did a lot of bad things. But if you look at his biography, you can clearly see the signs of mental illness. He was utterly paranoid, to say the least. Hitler is a very good candidate, although some of his officers were a lot worse (like Himmler and Eichmann).
My vote goes to George Herbert Walker Bush also known as George Bush Sr. It is so bleeding obvious that he is the one running the show, not his plonker/amoeba son. He goes to power, some mysterious terrorists attack the US. His son comes to power, again, some mysterious terrorist attach the US. Every time, he hurts his own country in order to raise terror amongst common folk. This way, everyone agrees to become oppressed in order to “be save”.
It’s a pretty nice scheme if you think about it. You gain absolute power without any resistance, you collaborate with the oil lobby and attack some countries (that normally don’t give a sh*t about US) to manipulate economy and get cheap oil.
Of course, there is a trade of weapons too. The US is still manufacturing a huge load of weapons, and damn it, they need to sell it! This is why the US _needs_ to make wars now-and-then. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan… they always want to liberate people from..nobody?
Hail George!
March 20th, 2008 at 5:47 am
Dr. Lector,
Now I really know you’re insane. Did Dr. Chilton slip something into your hot gruel this morning? Take away your paintings?
Comments like yours sound like Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. You need to crush some tin foil around that antenna the CIA installed in your head, because I think you’re picking up some UHF signals dude.
HW didn’t do a very good job running this country when HE was RUNING it. So he makes evil secret plans to get his son to do his bidding? What is he, Magneto?
I know you’re fond of human flesh so why don’t you just EAT ME!
March 20th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Well, it’s “Lecter”, not “Lector”.
I might be insane, but unlike you I at least have manners. Having no manners probably means you’re from the US, sucking up all the propaganda and fear they serve up. Either that, or your parents did a really bad job.
But seriously..answer these *logically*:
1. What is the reason for the US invasion of Iraq?
2. What is the reason for the US invasion of Afghanistan?
3. What is the cause of WTC?
4. Where the hell is the airplane that hit Pentagon?
Things *not* to write:
1. Some guy from Iraq hates the US for no apparent reason and we need to attack preemptively
2. Some guy from Afghanistan hates the US for no apparent reason and we need to attack preemptively
3. Both of the above
4. Harry Potter made it invisible / The government removed the entire freaking airplane as evidence
1, 2, 3 and 4. George Bush jr. is actually a kick-ass, highly intelligent planner and he has a major scheme to bring freedom to the rest of the non-US worshiping world..
(As a side note, Hitler declared a preemptive war on Poland, so go figure..)
March 20th, 2008 at 8:08 am
dr. Lecter:
I won’t bother to address any of your other points, at least not at present… but this nonsense about the “disappearing plane” that hit the Pentagon…. well, I gotta come out and nail you on that one.
The plane that hit the pentagon, “dr.,” blew up and largely disintegrated. Does it never occur to you conspiracy types to even look into actual physics regarding these matters? To investigate the real science concerning this sort of thing (instead of made-up or fudged science coughed out by incompetents on the internet?)
A) airplanes–even really big ones like passenger jets–are made of *relatively* flimsy materials (such as aluminum… and PLEASE note I said RELATIVELY flimsy) in relation to their size–they have to be, because weight is a serious matter in aviation–an aircraft must be as light as possible in order for the engines to operate, generating forward motion which in turn generates lift on the wing surfaces. YOU may see a big, heavy aircraft–and yes, in terms of human scale they ARE big and heavy. But… take that object and fly it at high speed into a massive structure (like the Pentagon) which is made of steel-reinforced concrete–a far stronger substance and far stronger structural design (which it CAN be, because it is a building, living on the ground, and does not need to fly) and right away you should be able to see the possibilities. The laws of physics state that an object also gathers kinetic energy at speed… and that energy is then released when the object meets another object. When one object (the Pentagon) is far stronger and heavier than the other object, there is not only an explosion of released energy, but the lighter object will in fact disintegrate.
B) Moreover, you’re talking about an object carrying HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE aviation fuel, which, when released in vapor form (as would happen in a high-kinetic event such as this kind of catastrophic collision) erupts with a *nasty* force. This too adds to the literal *vaporization* of the material object (the aircraft).
C) the Pentagon is also no ordinary building. It was constructed during WWII to withstand this very sort of catastrophic explosion—from bombs both big and small, or from the equivalent energy released in an aircraft colliding with the building. As the headquarters of the entire US military, it was built to survive, and survive relatively intact, all sorts of conventional explosions. More than your average building. This immense strength of structure also tips the scales against the poor, relatively flimsy big aircraft gliding in to hit the building at high speed.
D) You’re wrong *anyway* because the aircraft did NOT disappear. A good deal of debris from the plane was found at the scene… in fact, whole sections (albeit far smaller ones than you’d find in an ordinary crash or collision) and there are photographs of this debris on-site.
But of course, you’d probably think they were just faked, wouldn’t you? Yeah. Sure.
But you can’t argue with science and physics, “dr.” Sorry. No disappearing plane. It hit, exploded, and much of it was annihilated into ultra-small bits. That’s how it works.
March 20th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Randall: I guess it’s just a fluke then that most of the Two planes that hit the towers were recovered? Not pulverized or vaporized in the resulting explosions. You find Pictures And Documentation of the jets engines or “Black Box” (both the most durable parts of the craft) and I’ll be a little more convinced that there is/was no cover up.
March 20th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Crimananon; I’ll answer for Randall. The WTC were not hardened structures, the Pentagon is. Did you not see the video’s? Some of the plane pieces sailed right on through the WTC. It wasn’t built to withstand modern jets full of Av fuel, or the kind of forces they cause, the Pentagon is.
March 20th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Crimanon; here’s one of the jet engines. You can find more on the net, as well as pictures of all the wreckage remaining.http://911theory.info/graphics/WTC_jet_engine_too_small_to_be_from_a_767.jpg
March 20th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Mom: Much love, but, the WTC was originally designed, oddly enough, to take A Direct hit by a 747. I’d like to post a source but it’s so buried under Conspiracies and Memorial plans that it would take me weeks to find it. By the way your link is for a Conspiracy site, Saying that it’s “Too small to be from a 767″ (it was a 747 that hit the towers) and This is also Not from the Pentagon (as evident from the Murray st sign in the fore). I”ve seen the wreckage from WTC everywhere (the picture by the way is a fuel pump), WTC is not the subject It’s the Wreckage from the Pentagon.
March 20th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
No, I think you’re mistaken. Sorry but WTC was built in the 1960’s. They were flying 707’s. They were designed to withstand a hit from them, but not full of fuel. Even a direct hit from a 707 with a full fuel load (engine trouble and the like, pilots dump fuel)likely would have taken it down though. The insulation blew off the steel girders allowing the heat to weaken them. Once the floors pancaked there was no hope. I suggest you watch the PBS special on NOVA about it or go read the Popular Mechanic’s huge article on all the conspiracy crap related to it.
The great conspiracy is the way Bush was able to absolve his administration from any responsibility. They knew, they failed to act, and then started a war to cover it up.
March 20th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Er – Or – who gives a shit. You’re still an insipid, naive dork who probably still lives in his parents basement.
Don’t you ever insinuate anything about my parents who worked their ass off just so I could eat and have clothes on my back and grow up to make fun of people who actually believe the horseshit you spout. My parents are good, hardworking and honest people.
Besides, you haven’t read any of the other points in this section about W being nothing more than a presidential version of Inspector Clouseau. Not my opinion, but ok, some people don’t like him. According to most of the commenters on this site, W couldn’t conspire his way to the bathroom.
And yes, I am an American. Damn proud of it too, but I really didn’t have any say in the matter. It was a geographic quirk of genetics.
And as you can tell, there are plenty of other intelligent, witty and ubersmart people here that care enough to either explain it to you, or ignore your paranoia altogether. People I’ve argued with in the past about many things. But at least they are well read and rational. Which is more than I can say for you dr. lecter. Save your douchebaggery for some other website.
March 20th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Crimanon; I was aware of the site I culled the picture from. I assume that listverse readers, yourself included, can tell the difference between paranoid delusions and fact. I actually find the conspiracy stuff rather entertaining in a sort of masochistic way.
March 20th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Mom: I’m not arguing WTC, I’m Saying that there have been no pictures of 747 Engines in any of the photos or videos of The Pentagon. I stand corrected on the 707 matter, something didn’t feel right. It’s been awhile since someone released programing without trying to Debunk 9/11. My paranoid delusions, are well, mine. It’s bad enough that the government filters my water to see how much fluoride I’ve ingested this week so that they can continue to brain-wash me by way of hidden messages in my dryer lint. If only they’d share there “Sock Vortex” technology with us we could finally make it to “Work” (engineered slavery camp) on time…
March 20th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Damn where did I put my aluminum foil hat. That satellite’s passing again… “Think of a pink golf ball.”
March 20th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Karol Wojtyla is the Most Evil.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:20 am
@bucslim:
This is so typical. You don’t have any arguments to put on the table, so you just write “who cares” and start insulting. Maybe your parents are good, hardworking and honest people, they probably are, but they certainly didn’t succeed in teaching you how to discuss things like a well mannered and grown up individual.
“Besides, you haven’t read any of the other points in this section about W being nothing more than a presidential version of Inspector Clouseau.”
You better read that again, I was talking about Bush Sr. not Bush Jr. who can barely walk properly and probably needs his daddy to change his diaper.
“It was a geographic quirk of genetics.”
No, it was a matter of mass murder of native Americans. There’s a slight difference.
@Randall:
Ok, let’s say the plane did crash, fine by me. It still doesn’t change anything. The tapes your government confiscated ought to prove there _was_ a plane.. if they are a *proof*, why aren’t they released to the general public? I wish I knew.. But as I said, this doesn’t change the fact that the Bush family was behind 9/11.
But anyways; let’s forget about Pentagon and 9/11, what about Bush family history? What about their oil and weaponry agenda, Nazi views, very nice relations with the Bin Laden family..? Is that also how it works?
@Alejandro: I agree on Karol Wojtyla (and pretty much every pope).
P.S. Conspiracy theories are often nuts and foolish, and people who defend them are usually fanatics, I agree on that. But trusting your government is by far the most foolish thing you can do. Remember Watergate. Or just look at the size of this category (especially the Bush subcategories): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_political_scandals
March 21st, 2008 at 6:04 am
Dr. Lecturd – if you had anything of value, anything that added something worthwhile to the conversation, I might indeed be more engaging and well mannered.
You actually want people to believe Sr. ordered an attack on his home country. You want people to believe that attack was actually carried out. You want people to believe Bin Laden would take orders from anyone with the last name Bush. You want people to believe the Bushes and Bin Ladens are pals. You want people to believe something else blew up part of the Pentagon.
And I’m the one who’s childish and ill mannered? Better that than paranoid and delusional. If you try to come up with something rational and witty to say, you’ll soon find out how gregarious I can be.
And just to be clear, no Native Americans were harmed in the production of this post.
March 21st, 2008 at 6:15 am
Crimanon:
Excuse me… but where did you get this nonsense that the WTC was “designed to take a direct hit” by ANY jet airliner, regardless of Boeing model? From some conspiracy site? Don’t read everything you come across from nuts who have an axe to grind, Crimanon.
The WTC most certainly was NOT designed to cope with ANY such collision. To my knowledge no such catastrophe was even *planned* for. Certainly not in the structure of that building, which was a skimped-down and cost-saving version of a basic core faux-bauhaus skyscraper design (and a very poor one in my opinion–I never liked the WTC). The design simply never took into consideration the sorts of immensely high temperatures generated by burning aviation fuel. We saw the results on 9/11.
Please don’t throw around opinions about subjects which you clearly have little or no knowledge, such as structural engineering and architecture.
March 21st, 2008 at 6:21 am
@buttslim: Do you have a problem with the idea of Sr. ordering an attack on his home country? You don’t like it? I’m sorry, life indeed stinks.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
What about this:
“Critics of the Gulf War well recall how, just prior to Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait, President Bush (Sr.) dispatched Ambassador April Glaspie to visit Saddam with a letter and a “wink and a nod” telling the Iraqi leader that it was OK to invade his smaller neighbor. The May gift from Uncle Sam could well have been sending the same kind of message, along with necessary funds to complete the attacks. Drugs and terrorism go hand in hand.
Until February, Afghanistan had been the world’s largest producer of opium/heroin, claiming close to 70% of the world’s total production. That opium, consumed largely in Western Europe and smuggled through the Balkans, was a direct source of cash deposits in Western financial institutions and markets.”
Are you going to insult me some more or beat me down with some hard evidence? Or invade my country as an intelligent and well informed response?
Bah..what a waste of time..
March 21st, 2008 at 6:58 am
dr. Lecter:
Please pick another screen name. I feel distinctly silly trying to correct the illogical ravings of a person whose named themselves after a fictional serial killer. How about some originality, “dr.?” Hmm? How about that?
Now then… some points I have to address: A) your remark to bucslim about “it was a mass murder of Native Americans” is just pathetic cant. It’s over-the-top and sophomoric. Just where are you from, I wonder? Evidently not the US, but I don’t see where you’ve identified your origin. But it hardly matters, as almost every people on earth have committed their own crimes and misdeeds–even atrocities–to others who stood in their way or were subject to them. Europeans are famous for it. So think before you pass judgement on others, “dr,” as you almost certainly have ancestors with blood on *their* hands as well.
Moreover, it’s simplistic and inaccurate. Yes, we treated the native population here terribly and at times brutally. I myself live currently live in a town that used to be an Indian village, until it was destroyed during the Revolution. But that kind of thing is NOT the sole basis for America’s existence, and the issue is far more complicated than that anyway. I have little doubt that I’m right in assuming that you know only a smattering of American history, else you wouldn’t be so quick to toss around these overly-simplistic statements. We have our own demons from the past to face on this issue–but it’s hardly as simple as saying that America is all about the “mass murder” of its native population. And if you want to carry it that far, then I can pick out an example of every nation and every culture on earth as a parallel, and tell you that each of them is “all about” the mass murder of some other culture or nation, at their hands. But we all know that the story is always more complex than that. So get off it.
B) You’ll get no argument from me that the Bush family are scum and deserve divine retribution at the very least, if not more temporal forms of punishment. But let’s also stick to the facts. Facts are important, “dr,” they’re part of what keeps us civilized and rational.
I know of no “Nazi views” espoused by the Bush family, though I wouldn’t put it past those of their class, in the days before WWII, to have anti-semitic and fascist-like leanings. If you’re referring to rumors, however, of business collusion of the Bush family with Nazi Germany–those rumors are exactly that–baseless rumors that fail to take the facts into consideration. The Bush family had some (not a controlling) interest in a European company prior to the war that was later appropriated by the Nazi state. At the time of the war’s commencement the Bush family had divested itself of these holdings and no longer had anything to do with the company. That’s about all there is to it.
I dislike being put in the position of defending a family for which I myself have a particular loathing. But I dislike cant and irrationality and stupidity even more.
There is no “fact” behind the ridiculous, Hollywood-screenplay conspiracy theory idea that the Bush family was behind 9/11. Not one “fact” at all. Simply ravings and illogical meanderings that build into an absurd and unwieldly house of cards that can be tipped over at the barest wisp of a breeze. This is the way ALL conspiracy theories operate–they build a lot of circumstantial “evidence”–each piece of which can be proven to go another way, more logically and rationally–but in aggregate these tiny pieces all seem to form some kind of picture–provided you don’t look to close and examine the REAL evidence with any objectivity.
I don’t “trust” my own government, “dr.” I know what crap goes on in the centers of power–I have family who have been there. It’s not that I wouldn’t put it PAST people like George Bush to do underhanded, rotten deeds—I believe he has anyway—but it’s logic and facts that concern me, because I am a rational, intelligent. logical human being, not some raving, superstitious paranoid. As only one point: simply the vast NUMBER of people who would have to be kept silent, who would have to support any average conspiracy–makes it ridiculous in the extreme as any prospect of working in REALITY. People such as you ignore this, find glib “rationalizations” to work around it. Well I can’t. My world has to be a real one. The color of my sky is blue, not pink-polka-dot.
One last thing–you vastly underestimate George W. Bush if you think he’s so utterly incapable. I detest the man…I hate him, actually…. but I recognize that he’s got a cleverness about him, a despicable and snake-like cleverness. Saying his daddy has to change his diapers is cute (barely) but as rhetoric it really is sad and pitifully stupid of you. The man has a lot of miserable, rotten characters around him, yes–but he’s at the heart of it and is not the brain-dead cipher you paint him as. I don’t believe he’s intelligent, by any means–but he’s smart enough to be a manipulative and conniving bully.
March 21st, 2008 at 7:13 am
Lecter:
“Critics of the Gulf War well recall how, just prior to Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait, President Bush (Sr.) dispatched Ambassador April Glaspie to visit Saddam with a letter and a “wink and a nod” telling the Iraqi leader that it was OK to invade his smaller neighbor.”
This is pure confabulation. In FACT, “dr,” this is how Saddam INTERPRETED the visit of the ambassador. It was HIS mistake. Saddam took a failure to openly PROHIBIT action as an invitation to TAKE action. Two entirely different things. It’s easy to connect unrelated dots with the mind of a child and then yell, “look look! it makes a picture!”–but in fact it doesn’t.
The fact is this: at the time, the chief US enemy in the Middle East was considered to be Iran. Iraq was seen as a bulwark against Iranian pretensions to hegemony over the Middle East, or at least the Persian Gulf. Therefore, the dirty and slimy business of supporting a repellant dictator like Saddam, who at least could keep the larger enemy at bay. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” I don’t argue that this policy was correct–in fact I think it wasn’t–but that WAS the policy.
As such, Saddam, for all his evil dastardliness, was not seen as the bad guy at the time, and not viewed as a threat. It’s clearly apparent that few, if any, believed or foresaw that he would invade Kuwait. His own pretensions of influence and power over his small neighbor were not viewed as serious, mere bluster. Therefore–and perhaps shortsightedly and stupidly–he was not sent any serious message to NOT take action against Kuwait. HE in turn interpreted that as a go-ahead or at very least that the US would look the other way.
But what then, is your logic in this, if it was all “planned” by the US? What was the purpose of it? The original Gulf War simply ejected the Iraqis from Kuwait… and then stopped there. So what’s your point?
March 21st, 2008 at 8:12 am
Yes, let us stray to how unoriginal my nickname is..as opposed to Randall which by far more creative..all of this is very important..
A) Native Americans issue: cant or no cant, it is a fact. I’m not claiming that Europe is any better. Hell, look at the damn crusades, white man stinks ass (yes, I am white). Yes, it’s quite probable that my ancestors have a lot of blood on their hands, being from Balkan area is almost defined as murderer.
I don’t want you to think I hate just the US government exclusively, I hate all the governments in the world, no exceptions. But it is the US that bothers me the most at the moment, as they claim to be peaceful and righteous. The only country that used nuclear weapons. Killed hundreds of civilians in other countries. Fought other peoples’ wars.
Who the hell gave them the permission to do all that? And now they want to stop Iran and North Korea from producing nuclear weapons? So they can invade more easily? When the US patronizing and arrogance stops, so will the hatred stop.
I mean, US citizens still believe that the US had a decisive military role in WWII.. No comment.
Speaking of ridiculous and simplistic views, maybe you should move to another country and read some sociology/history books about the US and see for yourself how brainwashed US citizens really are (I’m talking about the majority here, of course there are exceptions).
“The original Gulf War simply ejected the Iraqis from Kuwait… and then stopped there. So what’s your point?”
Ever heard of divide and conquer? I see no one has answered my questions, why would US invade Afghanistan and Iraq? To find Bin Laden? Don’t be ridiculous..
Some things to learn about:
http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/government/index.htm
http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/military/timeline/1945-49.htm
http://www.marxists.org/glossary/events/b/r.htm#bretton-woods
http://www.marxists.org/history/capitalism/gatt/index.htm
This is “the dark side”. I’m out of this discussion. It’s a sheer waste of time, and I don’t like being insulted for my views just because they don’t conform to the all-American views.
In conclusion: it is my opinion Bush Sr. is one of the most evil men in history. You don’t have to agree with it, you just need to learn to live with it.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:20 am
Lecter:
I certainly have no wish nor inclination to continue defending the Bush family. You want to think Bush Sr. is one of the most evil men in history–more power to you. I think it’s going over the top, but I don’t disagree for a moment that the Bushes are assholes and I’m not going to fight you on your desire to take it further.
But then I’m just a brainwashed American, aren’t I? Even if I agree with you to some extent. Ha. Yes, I’m just brainwashed, Lecter. And you, a Balkan, apparently–from a region of the world where near-ancient bigotries and hatreds are still as fresh today as if baked this morning–you’ll have the gall to call ME brainwashed, to insult MY reasoning powers? Okay. Sure.
But enough of that… I have little interest in debating about brainwashing with someone who hails from what was only a few years ago a region dominated by totalitarian regimes–who comes from a people who are USED to being manipulated and dictated to by governments, the servile types that they are… and so automatically think Americans are like that too—servile and helpless before the oligarchical powers that rule over them.
I don’t deny that some Americans are all too gullible and provincial–failing on the one hand to understand the world and on the other too willing to buy into what they’re told. But this is human nature–NOT what it is to be American. My ancestors took the risk, FOUR CENTURIES ago, to come to this continent to be free and build what they thought and hoped would be a better world. I still think they managed it to a large degree, and bless them for having the balls to do it, and to fight for their own freedom.
Your ancestors, on the other hand–evidently stayed pat and put up with being slaves for four additional centuries. Good for you.
The above sounds jingoistic and self-congratulatory, I know. But in a small measure it’s meant to be… because what I mean to say is NOT that Americans are “oh-so-great,” because I KNOW very well the great flaws of my people— I probably dislike many Americans as much as or more than you do, in fact… but I won’t put up with being lectured to by Europeans—especially those whose democracies–if you even YET live in one, Lecter–are barely a decade or two old. Not when I know quite well the history we ALL labor under, as Westerners… or hell, as HUMAN BEINGS. You come to me with the DEEP hypocrisies, hatreds, miseries, slavery and horror of YOUR part of the world’s history hanging about your neck…. and you have the ill-manners and vacuousness to not merely criticize my country and my people–which you would nevertheless have every right to do, since no people or nation is above criticism–but to go beyond that and paint lies and distortions about the FACTS? What a pompous European fool you are, Lecter.
US citizens, you say, “still believe that the US had a decisive military role in WWII.” And you think this UTTERLY RIDICULOUS statement can stand with a “no comment”?
You have NO IDEA who you’re talking to, here, Lecter. History–PARTICULARLY of that war—is one my SPECIALITIES. Now you step up to the plate and explain to me how the US did NOT play a decisive military role in that war. Do it. Because I will tear you to shreds on the facts.
My father and FIVE of my uncles fought in COMBAT roles in that war–in the army, the air corps and the navy. The war in the Pacific theater was almost WHOLLY carried out by the US, with help from the British, Australians, Dutch and Chinese…. but the defeat of Japan can almost totally be claimed as an American victory.
In the European theater, the defeat of Nazi Germany was a combined effort of American and Soviet power, with the stalwart and brave second-tier (and earlier holding action) struggle of the British. But even the Russians could NOT have managed the defeat of Nazi Germany on their own in the time it took to do so, without American aid. It would have been a FAR longer and MUCH bloodier war without America—and let’s say there *was* no America… then in that case, in the end, had Soviet Russia been victorious—a darkness would have fallen across Europe and later perhaps the entire world which would have spelled the end of freedom and the rights of man for possibly centuries.
I do not take away from the sacrifice and valor of the Russian people (or the British) in WWII, Lecter. I KNOW my history about that war. But BECAUSE I know my history, I know very well what a pivotal role American power played. You, on the other hand, are clearly simply self-deluded and ill-informed. Not surprising.
Neither do I need your lectures about what I should read and what countries I should move to. Again, you’re clueless as to whom you’re addressing. I am no backwoods hick from middle-America with my head up my ass.
But you, on the other hand, ARE a provincial European with outmoded Marxist views on the brain (so it seems) who can’t see the forest for the trees, so brainwashed YOU are by systems and ideologies that have been toppled and discredited utterly—yet of course, being the servile, can’t-think-or-act-for-themselves types that ALLOWED such ideologies to run rampant with their homelands in the first place—you still apparently cling to and believe this nonsense.
Oh, and by the way, “Lecter.” I never made any mention of creativity in choosing a screen name. Randall happens to BE my name, and so I use it as my screen name. Nevertheless, I still note the low-brow and low-grade wit evinced by someone who chooses “Dr. Hannibal Lecter” as THEIRS. With all to choose from in the world, you picked that. Yup, I mock your choice. Trivial yes, but telling (in regards to your character) I think also yes.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am
God Bless Americans like Randall.
Lecter: I’m interested in hearing *your* answers to the questions you posed, because clearly you think you know the answer. I hope Europeans like you understand that this incendiary anti-American rhetoric serves only to polarize the opinions of otherwise intelligent and open-minded Americans against you. Most Americans *want* to heal the wounds that have been opened and reopened by the Bush family with the rest of the world. We don’t *like* being stereotyped as a people by the actions of our unscrupulous leaders (who did *not* win the popular vote in 2000, by the way). Most of us truly *want* to do away with this view of America as arrogant and patronizing, but the problem is that people like you make it patently obvious that the rest of the world is comfortable blaming your problems on us and want it to stay that way. Myself and others like me are much more aware of how messed up things are here than you give us credit for, but the vocal minority of pinheads like yourself serve only to further the rift between America and the rest of the world. There are many things about America I don’t like, but if Europe is full of people like you, than I’ll stay right where I am, thank you.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:05 am
Standing ovations for Slickwilly and Randall.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:10 am
Nice work guys. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Randall: For being a pro at the come backs and corrections, you failed to comprehend what was actually said. I’m not the only one who knows about the WTC’s Former structural capabilities. As for conspiracy theories, Pentagon, Big hole; photos, Big nothing, coincidence maybe. It was a thought that you apparently can’t process. I noticed you didn’t mention my “Nuts” Rant, Very much stating that not Everything from these sites should be taken even with a Pound of Salt. Loosen up; You sound like Loose_cannon.
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:21 am
Crimanon:
Trust me, smartass… there *are* no thoughts that I can’t process.
YOU said that the WTC was “originally designed to take a direct hit from a 747″ and I simply corrected you on this error. So why don’t you just explain to me what, exactly, I failed to comprehend?
Your syntax is so bad it wouldn’t be surprising if I DID make a mistake about something you said, but I’d like to know just what you mean, then.
I didn’t mention your “Nuts” rant because I wasn’t referencing that particular posting.
As far as I can see, it’s all clear as a bell. If you have a different take on this, then do please illuminate the matter for me.
March 22nd, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I am not in this for WTC. You didn’t correct my 747 info, never the less, it was corrected.
No one has supplied pics of the Pentagon With Said Engines and That was all I was looking for.
I am not here to argue Conspiracies. I Am here to watch all of these kids throw a fit about Dubbya and how he is the MOST EVIL man in the world. I, like you, find these comments to be under-educated and Extremely narrow-minded.
You should do yourself a favor and relax before your blood pressure spikes. And if “there *are* no thoughts that I can’t process.” Why is my syntax giving you such a hard time?
I am not here to disagree with you, on the contrary, I believe you to be a very enlightened individual. We need more defenders of logic.
My “Nuts” rant was nothing more than a drawn out and elaborate spoof of what some people will believe. There is a distinct lack of Sense in these theories that I was trying to point out. Take the Example of the BIg Bad Bush… Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.
For your sake, please, try to remember that most of the comments that are “Anti-Bush” are made by children who aren’t even of voting age.
For those of you that fit into these category, remember “You can’t complain, unless you voted.”
Nothing is more evil than Apathy.
March 22nd, 2008 at 6:01 pm
The person who created those Cuba Gooding / Michael Jordan Hanes commercials is brutally sadistic. I have to mute / change the channel immediately, if the remote is not near by, I must block my ears and turn away. Disturbing! The person / people responsible should be fired and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
I’d rather dine with attila the hun than even set eyes on the morons who created those commercials.
I’d rather sit through an entire religious service…IN PERSON.
March 23rd, 2008 at 7:52 am
Carl Panzram
March 23rd, 2008 at 9:29 am
Randall; If you get around to reading this; The WTC was designed to take a hit from airplanes around at the time. Dumped of fuel of course. I know this, because I saw an interview with the designer of WTC. They never planned for a fuel heavy airplane because they never once thought anyone would smash into it on purpose. Flight problems, first thing you do is dump the AV fuel. And you’re right, WTC was damn ugly and cheaply constructed.
March 24th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Mom:
Okay…. a bit of clarity:
in 1945, a B-25 Mitchell Bomber (interestingly enough, the kind my dad flew in WWII) flying in thick fog on a Saturday morning accidentally plowed into the Empire State Building, killing the crew and passengers, but fortunately few others (since almost no one was at work in the building). Since then (and to some extent before) skyscraper architects have of course taken airplane collisions into account when designing their buildings… but there is only so much you can do about such a collision, depending on the size of the plane. To my knowledge few skyscrapers have been designed to cope with the collision of a full-size jet airliner–particularly one that’s fully-fueled. The architect of the WTC may have said that the building was designed to cope with the collision of smaller aircraft–I don’t know.
In any case, had the WTC *not* been so chintzy in its design (i.e., no protective reinforcements around the “core” of the structure) both towers *may* very well have survived 9/11. We’ll never for sure. But it may have been possible. Designed as it was, though, there was no chance. The heat from burning jet fuel simply melted the main structure in the building core… and down it went.
You’re right though–no one ever planned for a deliberate collision with fully-fueled planes. And to be honest I’m not sure how you *would* definitively cope with such a contingency–definitively mind you–without adding on HUGE costs and perhaps great difficulties in such a tall structure. But then again, technology today is far better than it was in the late 60s/early 70s.
Yup, it was grossly ugly, the WTC.
March 24th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Crimanon:
Well gee, it took me all of five seconds to find a site online with pictures of engine debris from the Pentagon crash.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
I’ve seen many of these before? How is it you missed them? And what was your *point,* anyway?
As for my superior thought processes and your tortured syntax—regardless of my vast skills and abilities, why should I have to work extra hard to glean your meaning?
Also, your points about Bush haters—A) I don’t care if they’re kids–kids have minds too, and many are capable of reasoning out why Bush is a very bad president, and, indeed, an evil man. (Though no, not THE MOST EVIL man in history, of course not) B) I don’t entirely agree with you on this “if you didn’t vote, then shut up,” attitude. I certainly vote in every election–but I also live in a state where frequently my vote counts for little or nothing–New York “belongs” to Hillary Clinton, and I prefer Barack Obama. But let’s say I was a Republican (shudder)… New York *always* goes Democratic in national elections, and therefore, my votes for president would never really count. You can perhaps see how, in a reverse situation, many people might feel similarly disenfranchised, and might even choose not to bother to vote. Moreover, I can’t blame people with becoming disillusioned with the entire political process in this country. I certainly am.
March 24th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Interesting how Barack Obama is able to connect with many of those disillusioned voters, while giving hope to those disenfranchised non-voters out there who never cared enough to go to the ballot in the first place. I certainly hope he nabs the DNP nomination, because I think that he has the best chance of defeating McCain in the general election. Not to steer the topic in a different direction, but I’m also an Obama supporter and I find it interesting that, above all the other candidates, he seems to most understand the way younger people feel about contemporary politics in America.
Also: I never really feel the need to engage 9/11 conspiracy theorists in debate, because as with all conspiracies, the lack of evidence in their minds constitutes evidence in their favor, and it is difficult to reason with somebody whose logic is so utterly backward. For the record, the US had almost nothing to do with 9/11, except perhaps a dire refusal to act upon the information that indicated a massive, organized terrorist attack was getting ready to take place. I will go so far as to believe that it is possible thhe gov’ts inaction was intentional in order to garner support for the last 2 wars, similar to the situation that seemed to exist with Pearl Harbor in WWII. However, some people go pretty overboard with this stuff.
[/rant]
March 24th, 2008 at 9:03 am
I didn’t read the whole thing because I’m lazy and unmotivated
Religion – not evil. This is coming from a “devout” atheist. I don’t claim to be an expert of every religion, but I’ve studied a little. I have yet to find a modern religion that is inherently evil. Even the dreaded satanism is more of an animalistic self-worship than anything evil…regardless of what other religions may tell you. The problem with religion lies in both interpretation and spin. Pick a book, just about any of them will do. Read it and get 2 friends to read it. Then have a discussion about it. I guarantee that with 3 different readers, you’ll have 3 different interpretations. Add to that the fact that people love to control other people and you will see how spin comes into play. If you look hard enough at the bible or any other religious text, you will find plenty of ambiguous statements that can be used to push your own agenda on the masses. To sum it up: religion isn’t evil – people are evil.
Osama bin Laden – WTF? Seriously, the guy is an average fundamentalist asshole who got lucky once. That hardly qualifies him to be the most evil man ever.
As for my own answer, I don’t have one. There have been so many people through the ages who have taken great joy from the suffering of others that it is impossible to say one is worse than another.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:11 am
I went back and read more and I see alot of people suggesting George Bush. Again – not so much. I don’t know if he’s sadistic or just stupid, but mostly he just seems like a very incompetent Commander in Chief who happened to be in office at a bad time. I’m sure some of his puppet masters are evil (Cheney and Co.), but I honestly don’t think he’s smart enough to figure out a way to stop them, and I also don’t think he’s smart enough to care. As I said, that doesn’t make him evil, just incompetent. I’m sure the people of Iraq have stronger feelings about this than I do, it’s just my opinion.
March 24th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Randall: Compare engine sizes, If the engine came off of any jet it was a Cessna or some similar sized aircraft. Even the AUX engine would have to be bigger.
http://www.geocities.com/s911surprise3b/american_airlines_flight_77/
March 25th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Charles Manson
March 26th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Crimanon:
Excuse me, but A) you can’t judge the size of the overall engine from these photographs—certainly not to say it’s too small. and B) you’d still need to explain where all the debris came from. A cruise missile is all of about 10 feet long, I believe–or thereabouts. There’s clearly debris there from a much larger craft, and clearly some of it comes from a jet airliner.
Please. Logic and rationality. Not wild silly speculation based on no evidence.
March 26th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Randall: Oh, yeah, I see what you are talking about. It is so hard to gauge the size of the engines. I mean with the people standing right in front of them getting in the way. I only wish that there was some way to judge the scale of an engine by estimating the length of a leg and the distance to the engines. Oh, Geometry, why do you hate us so!
March 27th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Crimanon:
Listen smartass… the point is that there’s so much debris and wreckage in the photographs you can’t be certain about the size of the engine before it was destroyed. Certainly you can’t go around making definitive statements about it being too small.
But what’s your POINT anyway? It was an engine from a small commuter jet? So what does that mean? A cruise missile was fired into the Pentagon AND someone also crashed a small jet there….. for what reason? To fool us? Anybody could have EXAMINED the engine debris and determined what it was, based on serial numbers, etc.
And if you’re going to argue that the engine debris was just “placed” there (how would they do that and/or get away with it?) then why IN GOD’S NAME wouldn’t they just put the RIGHT kind of engine debris there?
See, this is the thing–conspiracy nuts will point to these stupid-ass little items *totally ignoring* the logical implications beyond them.
First, it’s no plane hit the Pentagon at all, and they claim there was no debris. Then you show them photos of debris and explain why the plane essentially disintegrated and why the Pentagon suffered comparatively little damage. THEN they’ll disparage the photos of the engine debris, saying it’s not the right kind of debris… WHICH MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. Logically it just falls apart.
If you don’t buy into this nonsense, Crimanon, then why are you parroting it?
March 27th, 2008 at 10:14 am
George “Dubya” Bush.
9/11 ftl.
March 27th, 2008 at 10:16 am
And Dick Cheney also.
NOT the ideal hunting partner.
March 27th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Randall: Did I say anything about a cruise missile?
I was never trying to spread any nonsense, I was merely asking for a few pictures.
It’s not my fault you’re dense and have no grasp of physics (ie. where the rest of the mass from the engines went) or basic principles of mass/energy conservation.
As far as the “Smartass”, Damn Straight! I’ve looked at the photos, I’ve seen the videos/news reports/”Investigations”. I still have never seen the engine of a 767 in any of them.
1) I do believe that there were AT LEAST 4 jets on there way to various destinations on the east coast.
2) I believe that there were terrorists involved.
3) I believe that there was fore-knowledge by the US gov. prior to.
4) I don’t believe that they knew what they were looking at.
5) If they did know what was going to happen, they didn’t know How/when/where or any of the other information to be at the airport to stop the plains at that time.
6) If they had planned it themselves, then they would have known to do it properly because of the nuts out there who would try to debunk the whole thing.
I’m not trying to be Moore. I’m not a propagandist but I never believe anything of this magnitude without Full disclosure. Secrets are a bad thing.
All I was asking for is a PICTURE OF A JET ENGINE comparable to a 767. I still haven’t found it and I’m tired of arguing.
George Bush is a moron, Not the AntiChrist.
March 27th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Hitler was the most evil man in history. Granted, Stalin killed more than him but he had reason to do it. Those deaths were necessary for the greater good. Hitler on the other hand was just one cool crazy ass mother fucker. He deserves this title because to most people’s eyes, he killed 66% of the European Jewsih population for “no good reason.” Also, he ordered prisoners of war to be immediately shot if they were Jewish. Fuck, just look at his eyes, you can sense the evil in them…Stalin on the other hand looks like a fat fagot who farts a lot. If I didn’t know better, I would’ve assumed Stalin was Santa Clause after a clean shave…Anyways…Hitler is BY FAR the MOST evil man in history. The guy was a genius (his rage conflicted with this) and a brilliant speaker/leader. Hitler
March 27th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Vice Chancellor of Amerika Richard B Cheney
March 28th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Crimanon:
Really, you’re going to have the gall to tell ME that I’m “dense” and have no grasp of physics… when YOU yourself clearly can’t grasp the simplicity of these concepts?
Listen up pinhead. I was EDUCATED in this stuff. Can you claim the same? I highly doubt it from the way you talk. And as far as intellectual honesty goes, you don’t even step up to the plate, because you keep PARROTING this ridiculous assertion that you “see no engine” from a jet airliner in any of the photos, and yet you BLOW RIGHT BY answering WHAT that is supposed to mean! You keep saying you’re “no propagandist” and not a conspiracy nut, yet you keep asserting there’s no engine in these photographs, clearly HINTING that there’s something sinister behind it (even though it’s not even true). But then you refuse to take the leap and just ADMIT what it is you find so sinister.
Jesus H. Freakin’ Christ—you think you don’t see the right kind of engine debris in the photos… is that worth this goddamned federal case of an argument? I am damn well sure you wouldn’t even know what to look for (I’m not saying I would either–I’m no expert on Boeing engine parts, and neither are you, and neither are any of the people posting shit on the internet about this stuff) and yet you’re acting like there’s some great secret here. AND YET when I point out to you that you must THEN answer what it means, if that’s not the right engine–you gloss right over that and just go right back to demanding a picture–when, AGAIN–you don’t even know what to look for.
I hate this kind of freaking intellectual dishonesty. You don’t WANT to sound like a conspiracy nut because you know such people are off the goddamned wall, but in fact you have a sympathy in that direction but you’re not willing to admit it for fear of looking like an ass and suffering ridicule. Well good—you SHOULD fear that, because such people ARE asses and DO deserve ridicule.
Stop with this crap about demanding a photo and TELL ME, since you clearly believe you’re right on this issue–what it means if those AREN’T the right engine bits in those pics.
You know damn well what it means. It means that you THEN believe that there was this huge bizarre conspiracy behind it all THAT DOESN’T EVEN MAKE SENSE (as I’ve already pointed out) with zero logic to support it—an entire idea that just completely falls apart the moment you examine it.
But you’ll sit there and pretend that you’re just reasonably asking for a photo of the right engine part…. and nothing more…. and yet you certainly aren’t some expert on commercial jet aircraft (or you would have said so, and also no doubt you would have come out with a book or something by now, if you had proof of such a glaring inconsistency in these photos)…. so how in god’s name can you be so sure you’re NOT looking at the right debris?
You’ve taken some nut-bag’s word for it on the internet that those photos don’t show the right engine debris. That’s what’s behind this. Admit it and just knock it off.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Out of the two of us, I think you’re the one more likely to make the “Federal case of an argument”. I’ve acknowledged your engines, I’ve seen your photos, I’ve grown tired of this list.
You make assumptions that I’m some Nut job with a stack of “Catcher in the Rye” in my basement. You think you know me and how I may respond to topics like this in public. I can tell you Honestly that there has NEVER been anything I’ve ever said in these lists that I wouldn’t say to you personally.
You’ve brought up what I do for a living, not mentioning your own career choices… Bad manners. I could be standing at the Skunkworks and you wouldn’t know it. Let me tell you that I know for a fact that the engines in those pictures are Not the main engines from a 767. I’ll leave it at that.
I’ve avoided speaking of the “nut-bag”, I don’t like him. I’ve gathered that the two of you have a good amount in common. Both quick to baselessly insult some ones intelligence, Love to make “Federal Cases” out of things, and always have the last word.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Crimanon:
Yup, I love to have the last word. Guilty.
And here it is: If you “knew for a fact” that those engines were not the correct ones, you or someone else would be all over TV and the lid would be blown off this (supposed) conspiracy.
You know nothing of the kind, in fact.
And again–you’ve conveniently chosen to ignore the challenge put to you–if those AREN’T the right engines—then explain the implications of this.
You can’t, you won’t, and that’s that.
March 28th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
If they are not engines from a 767:
1) The “Man” is lying to us to:
a) Control public opinion by manipulation
b) Manipulate public opinion to bring the NWO
c) Hide whatever they were doing “Over There”
2) Our government is trying to protect us from:
a) Outside forces (ie. other institutions)
b) Political in-fighting
c) Our own hatreds of each other
3) The photoggs are morons who didn’t know what they were looking at.
4) Those are the photos from the wreckage and the more slow witted of our citizens were duped by Whoever authored the articles that contained those pictures, For purposes Unknown.
Any other bodies to put on the pyre of credibility???
March 31st, 2008 at 6:24 am
Crimanon:
“Any other bodies to put on the pyre of credibility???”
Yeah, how about yours?
You have offered not one *shred* of EVIDENCE that the engines are the wrong type. You simply aver over and over that they are. Prove it, don’t assume it… and don’t expect US to assume it just because you or some crackpot conspiracy nut online says so.
And again, your laundry list here addresses NONE of the LOGICAL questions that arise, if the engines are the wrong type–in a REAL situation. All you’re doing is spewing out vague ideas regarding WHY a cover-up would have occurred.
March 31st, 2008 at 10:32 am
I don’t know a lot about Stalin, I don’t know a lot about Hitler (i’m only 13) but what i do know is that Hitler had mental problems, so this makes me think that even though Hitler was so evil that he really can’t be described (and bear in mind i am in no way making excuses for the un-imaginable things he did) maybe he was slighlty blind to what he was doing (and this sounds so much like excuses for what he did do) but Stalin… well
March 31st, 2008 at 10:47 am
I was thinking my husband might be a good number 1 for this list
March 31st, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Randall: Shreds of evidence? Where is your evidence? I can no more put my hands on those engines than you can. Neither one of us can do more than site someone else’s work. I’m not going to write a thesis, you’re already set in you opinions on the matter.
You said “if those AREN’T the right engines—then explain the implications of this.” I did and I don’t feel the need to spike my blood pressure to explain it.
“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”-Napoleon Bonaparte
There Is Always A Cover-up.
April 1st, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Crimanon:
Unbelievable. To begin with, ever heard of Occam’s Razor, Crimanon? A vast conspiracy (which would be necessary if what you’re suggesting is true) is quite simply an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require EXTRAORDINARY evidence. You have *none.* Occam’s Razor in essence says that the simplest explanation is what we must go with, in the absence of strong, undeniable, unambiguous evidence to the contrary. The simpler explanation is that those ARE the correct engines. And if you want proof of this, then you go to the FBI, the NTSB and the FAA, not to mention Boeing, to check on this.
And at last you’re admitting that you’ve done nothing but cite “someone else’s work.” Unfortunately, the work you’re citing is that of conspiracy crackpots–the same type of people who deny we ever went to the moon because they can’t make sense of easily-understood photographs taken during the Apollo landings.
If YOU or any of THEM had *real* EVIDENCE that those engines were not the right type, then you or they could PRESENT it to the rest of us and PROVE that there is some sinister conspiracy going on here. But NO SUCH EVIDENCE has EVER been presented. Only interpretations of photographs by people who don’t know what they’re talking about—just as moon-landing-conspiracy nuts don’t know what THEY are talking about. You’re telling ME my opinions are already set in this matter when what you are expecting me to do is listen to people *who don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.*
I’m not closeminded, Crimanon. You’re gullible. You’re willing to listen to somebody tell you that there’s an inconsistency in a photograph, and you’re then willing to swallow they’re assertions whole. I’m open-minded to EVIDENCE, real, hard evidence—but not the unsupported and unsupportable meanderings of some voice in the wilderness.
As for the implications—you explained NOTHING. I asked you to explain the LOGICAL implications of there being the wrong engines onsite at the crash. You’d have to answer WHY anyone would make such a foolish mistake and why they’d expect to *get away with it.* Why not just plant the RIGHT engines? How would such a sleight-of-hand be managed without anyone noticing?
April 1st, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Simplest explanation… I’m not even going to bother reading the rest… No retorts… no snappy come backs… I’m done.
April 1st, 2008 at 3:31 pm
First of all we’re talking about evil people not retards like Hitler because he was mentally deficient because of mustard gas. Besides he was a Jew which meant he should’ve been killed to.
My most evil man who ever lived was probably the Nazi doctor Ugenhauer(read about him) he used to perform surgeries on small children without anastectic and raped them while they were cut open just so he could hear them scream until they suffocated from lack of breathing. he ended up killing over a hundred children all girls and killing hundreds of others.
April 15th, 2008 at 12:16 am
The question is “who IS…” not “Who WAS…” and that’s easy. Dick Cheny
April 21st, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Al Gore is the most evil man and will go down in history as the anti-christ.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:36 am
Charles Manson Because He ate A baby Fetus That is Sick “I wonder If it Taste LIke Chicken” Lol Lmfao
May 21st, 2008 at 1:51 am
the goddamn bush…
May 21st, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Adolf Hitler
May 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Stalin, most recent history anyway.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Mao was by far a deadlier dictator than either Stalin or Hitler. His actions and policies led to the deaths of over 77 million. Stalin comes in second deadliest for his Great Purge, and Hitler third for the Holocaust. I believe this is because Mao and Stalin were Communist and Hitler was only Nationalist, so that naturally limited his causalities. And also consider the countries they ruled. While Russia is bigger geographically than China, China is more densely populated. And Germany is puny in comparison with either China or Russia.
June 6th, 2008 at 1:40 am
This is a toughie. I’d have to go with Pol Pot, Torquemada, Hitler, Stalin, Heinrich Himmeler (I believe it was Himmeler who actualy implemented the Final Solution, but I haven’t slept in days and my brain is tapioca), and Pope Not-So-Innocent III or whichever one was behind the Malleus Malifecarum. That’d make a good top five, in just about any order.
Oh yeah, and that guy who does the voice of SpongeBob Squarepants.
Boy, do I need a nap….
June 18th, 2008 at 8:15 am
God,no doubt. think of all the war,homicide and hatred in the name of god,allah and whatever it is
June 18th, 2008 at 8:23 am
I have a few:
1. Josef Stalin
2. Kim Jong-Il (however you spell it)
3. Adolf Hitler
4. Varg Vikernes (look him up on Wikipedia)
That’s all I can think of, for now.
June 18th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Oh yeah! George W. Bush!
June 28th, 2008 at 5:49 am
Any leader who tuns on his own seems to be in his own category of evil. You can kind of understand the reasoning when a leader goes after an ‘enemy’ – no matter how misguided. Mugabe seems to be having a good go at getting himself on the list.
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
HITLER as the most evil man? LOL, don’t make me laugh What was his big mistake? The Holocaust? WWII? Alright, he believed in racial and cultural superiority, and he thought superior races and cultures were entitled to invade other people’s countries, enslave them, and even exterminate them. Monstrous, you say? Really?
People FAIL to notice that Europeans have been doing the EXACT SAME THING since Colombus. In the 80 years after the Spanish invaded Mexico and South America, the native population fell by 90%. Diseases purposely spread by the Spaniards and their conquests for gold decimated the American civilizations. That was about 40 or 50 million people. Hitler was faster, but he was responsible for 10 times less deaths than the Spaniards were. The French and the English thought they deserved to rule what they called ‘the lesser breeds,’ all over the world. The Belgians ran the Congo like a big concentration camp, AND THE LIST GOES ON.
The Europeans believed that their supposed superiority justified slavery, massacres, deportations and suffocating of other people’s cultures. And Europe has flourished on that basis for centuries. It’s OK to massacre others, as long as they’re not your fellow Europeans. And that was Hitler’s mistake. He picked on Europeans. No one would have minded much if he had picked on Blacks, Indians, etc, but treating his fellow Europeans that way was unforgivable.
And it’s funny how much this mentality still exists today, and all of your posts prove it. The real killers, who committed genocides far worse than Hitler, are respected and NATIONAL HEROES now, but the ones who picked on YOU are big bad evil boogeymen. Whenever we want to mock a politician, we compare him to Hitler. Personally I would compare that politician with Hernan Cortes.
At least acknowledge men like Hitler and Stalin who are responisble for most of the technological advancements of the 20th century.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Stalin hitler saddam george w. Bush
July 13th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
W
July 13th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
nuff said
July 17th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Stalin killed a bunch of people, but it was because of it that the USSR won us World War II. Without Stalin, who knows what would have happened.
It’s impossible to decide who was the evilest man. I’m not a fan of Zedong, myself. Tojo was pretty bad, too.
July 17th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
nobody is evil.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:08 am
Glowbug:Yes, Himmler implemented the final solution
July 28th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Ariel Sharon and if you want to know why? then look at palestine
July 28th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
george bush
August 4th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
What about Karl Marx? maybe his original intentions were not evil. But the ideas he founded (marxism, leading to communism) which could be argued lead to the deaths of millions in russia and china especially.
August 10th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I disagree with this comment. Stalin won the worlds worst war, World War II. The US, Britain & France did not put anywhere near the military than Russia did. The US lost 411,000, UK lost 380,000, the French lost under 210,000 people but Russia lost almost 27,000 people from World War II. Stalin sent more than 35 million soldiers to World War II and Great Britain has admitted, Russia won World War II bases of it’s stance on the east and Western front and troops killed to defeat Germany.
Any person who was the worst killer would be Hitler. Yes Stilan killed his oown people but under 1 million, not 6 million like Germany did. Russia had a lot of anti Russian civilians who were trying to break the USSR, so Stalin held them in prison, he realeased many in good standing and killed the bad ones by holding them in prison.
The bottom line, Stalin won the war which the US & Great Britain could not in any way win such a war, Russia was the dog fighter and we have to credit Russia for the worlds worse war in history.
So I don’t discredit Stalin at all.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Mrs. Borah.
I swear she was a man.
She man handled me!
September 17th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
My neighbour, he keeps his sound large and disturbs me. Can’t blame him off course we human being all are evil. If anyone giving ideas about the evil men or women just put thenselves in the shoes of their nominees then, they might have done just a bit more than their nominee.
September 21st, 2008 at 4:35 pm
hitler. Joseph Stalin was not an evil man to the extent of Hitler. stalin did what he had to do to advance his own nation forward. there is enough evidence to say that had he not committed those atrocities (some of the, completely unnecessary), russia would probably have been dominated my Germany in the early stages. Hitler on the had, killed millions in ways that were completely unnecessary as he was under no immediate threat. the one thing he did for his country was to get it out of the depression. he was an aggressor, Stalin did his deeds in defense. Btw, scott, stalin killed a hell lot more than hitler.
September 21st, 2008 at 7:02 pm
id have to say mohammad was the most evil man in history.islam cannot co-exist with the rest of the world .the koran commands them to kill all who will not convert.1/3 of the worlds population is muslim and growing.they subjugate women and cut out the clitoris of young girls to prevent them from enjoying sex.the list goes on and on .99% the wars and unrest in this world involve islam.i feel sorry for these people as they cannot escape the bondage of their religion.god help us all when the muslims gain political power in the usa as they are in europe already. mohammed you are the most evil man in history for your book of hate .
September 22nd, 2008 at 2:08 am
Just .99%? Oh thank god, I’ll have a better chance at getting hit by an A380! Check your typos they make you look like more of an idiot than the republican friends that you hang out with.
As said before, “Spew Your Hate Elsewhere” Hate speak is NOT taken lightly here. You might as well don the robes and start burning crosses. Ignorant little shite.
September 24th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
most evil man: my brother — he called me ‘fat.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:30 am
All the Popes.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Fred and Rosemary West and Josef Fritzl. They didnt kill many people but how could you do that to your children repeatedly?
October 15th, 2008 at 2:41 am
hi i am 27 we all say that evil is bad now who thave create the evil in this world y we have to be down and y for the human there is no peace love joy who is agenst all of us who gave live to all the human in this list and y the devil gate the blame i have than nating to this one who ever is but know that him self have than alot of harm to me with no stop and wane i happey for him is a pen y becos him self is rong and we gate his anger becos him know that we have to ask him and if we ask us who is the most evil of all the heaven father name well cam up in the 1 place
November 5th, 2008 at 2:05 am
Stalin. Hitler is second.
November 25th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
I think it’s pretty close between Stalin and Hitler, but I think I’m going to have to go with Stalin. Hitler may have created the most publicized extermination in the history of the world, but Stalin basically killed off an entire country. Just look at the facts, Hitler was responsible for the deaths of around 11 million people, most of which based on there beliefs. Stalin was responsible for the deaths of over 50 million people, and that number goes up every year. But really, how do you measure the amount of evil in a man. It can’t be done by counting the deaths created by one man. I believe Saddam Hussein, Vladimir Lenin, Osama Bin Laden, Amon Goth, Mao Tse-tung, and several others are just as evil as Stalin or Hitler.
November 28th, 2008 at 4:10 am
Josef Mengele, just read about some of the horrible things he did on Wikipedia, I shan’t be mentioning them here because thay are too grisly to discuss.
December 17th, 2008 at 5:53 am
Pol Pot and Mengele
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:12 pm
The man who invented high heels.
December 25th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
It’s pretty irksome to see the few, albeit significant, comments responding to this question with Jesus or the inventor of religion (which possibly singles out Christianity) as their answer. The fact of the matter is, there have been religious extremists utilizing their Christian faith as a poor excuse for their evil crimes, just as there have been Atheist or Satanic extremists. It’s the basic Christian principles that are essentially moral or “good”, but despite of this basic understanding, many are still ignorant. They claim that churches are evil establishments or cults set to brainwash the masses. Cults are universally defined as sects that live outside conventional society, and are often, if not always, led by a charismatic and seemingly accepting figure.
All of the Christian/Catholic churches in America interact with their communities, setting up research hospitals, homeless shelters, volunteer opportunities, providing financial assistance to those less fortunate regardless of religious (or lack thereof) affiliation, and drives such as the one listed – http://blog.mlive.com/chronicle/2008/03/little_patient_may_return.html#post
There have also been many positive cases where activists such as Martin Luther King Jr. and Susan B. Anthony have been religiously motivated to devote themselves to the civil rights and women’s rights causes. This is the true meaning of Christianity.
Strangely enough though, it vanishes from the heated debates against Christianity.
Remember to keep in mind the good churches, temples, and mosques have done prior to jumping the bandwagon against organized religion.
But I digress.
The truly evil person, man or woman in history would have to be Hitler. A heartless, cruel individual who truly deserves this label.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Michael Phelps
February 25th, 2009 at 1:56 am
The most evil person evil is Dr.Josef Mengele i mean think about it doctors are supposed to save you from death not increase it or do the things he did.I just want to vommit when I hear of what he did.
March 10th, 2009 at 6:42 am
The fact that you said, “Stalin took a thriving nation and turned it in a nation of terrified people” makes me think you know nothing pertaining to World History.
“A thriving nation”….. really? Do you honestly think that?
March 13th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
I believe the most evil person would have to be Satan. Although he is classified as an angel, so mybe he doesn’t count…
March 13th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Billy Bob: And fictional.
March 25th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
i used to think it was hitler but now i dont know?
they were all evil in there own way. so i dont think no one can be the “most” evil because they all did horrible stuff that affected the world or even just a country ?
March 29th, 2009 at 8:32 am
ted bundy
April 6th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
thank God i’m from Texas!
April 12th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
I think it’s a shame there are so many candidates for the title.
My vote is Hitler. To kill millions over ethnicity/religion and the atrocities committed. To set up an “Aryan nation” he couldn’t even qualify for himself (brown hair, brown eyed fool), to take a symbol of peace and turn it into the most hated symbol in the world (go look up what a swastika really meant before Hitler perveted it). Truly disgusting piece of work. Glad he’s dead! And all the Nazi lovers of today can die too, please.
Also Osama bin Laden, Idi Amin, Jesse Helms, and all the people who kill…*smh* this list is massive of evil people.
April 26th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
if you’re doing it based on stats then i suppose it would be stalin, but in terms of sheer hatred and callousness i’d have to go with hitler because in the little over a decade he was in power he killed nearly as many as stalin did in nearly 30 years
May 6th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Freud.
Nobody in the Western World has really been happy since.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:39 pm
not easy to define what evil is.
but i think the answer is not a man but the god (god for us, allah for the others) he has done some pretty bad things down here.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:50 am
Hitler.
He encouraged racism and genocide for his own ends and killed millions of people.
Definately not on >:(
June 9th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Here’s my list:
1. Walt Disney
2. James Eugene Ewin
3. Adolf Hitler
4. Joseph Stalin
5. Barrack Obama
June 15th, 2009 at 8:38 am
1. Barrack “Adolf Hitler” Obama
2. Michelle “Doctor Zaus” Obama
3. Robert Sheets Byrd
4. David “isn’t child rape funny” Letterman
5. Nazi Pelosi
June 16th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Hitler and Stalin
June 17th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
josef mengele, elizebeth bathory, dennis rader (BTK)
June 17th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
oh yeah, and me
July 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
God.
for all his crimes against humanity.
August 12th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Charles Rothenberg, (set his six-year-old son David on fire in 1983).
August 13th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
John W. Dean III
August 18th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
I find it hard to dicide.
But it’s definatly one of these four: Mao Zedong, Heinrich Himmler, Charles Manson and Osama bin Laden.
What kind of evil is the worst?
Mao killed the most people, in the Great Leap Forward. But does that make him more evil or just more successful at being evil?
Himmler was in charge of the holocaust, wich was racially motivated. So even though he didn’t kill as many, he had a worse motive.
Manson didn’t kill as many many as the other three, but he did do things that would have made the other three sick. While the others had people killed, he preformed the deed himself.
And then there’s Osama. He used fear, destruction and chaos to get what he wanted.
So makes one evil? What you do?(Manson) How you do it?(Osama) Why you do it? (Himmler) Or how well you do it? (Mao)
September 5th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Unfortuantely there have been a lot of evil people in history. Also it is difficult to measure evil. As Hansi August 18th said above how do you know the differene between the most evil and the most successful at being evil. Stalin and Hitler where both evil men this is obvious and Stalin did kill more people than Hitler, on the other hand both indended to kill more people than they actually did entended to do more evil than they actually did. There are millions of unanynomas individuls who for sick reasons of their own want to cause evil and suffering the only thing making there evil “less” evil than Stalin or Hitler is that they have not had the chance to put thier plans into action.
September 13th, 2009 at 12:04 am
@Hansi (452): Reinhard Hydrich was probably a more “evil” person than Himmler. But then again, if you actually believe that what you are doing is the right thing, are you actually evil.
A guilty mind is part of the burden of proof in criminal cases in Australia, we don’t hold people responsible if they didn’t mean to do something “bad”. Did people like that know? Therefore, are they “evil”?
October 8th, 2009 at 10:51 am
me
October 9th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
people who hate others just because of there sexuality, race or religion.
so basically 99% of humans beings
October 12th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Hitler`s not the most evil man ever. And The Holocaust isn`t the most evil thing ever. The only reason people continue to say he is, is because of Jews and Israel. He`s no worse than Rome`s treatment of Christians, Atilla the Hun, the Crusaders, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, medieval monarchs, The Inquistition, The Black Death, Vlad the Impaler, Henry VIII, Pizzaro and Cortes, Christopher Columbus, Ivan the Terrible, Leopold, Lotha von Trotha, Talat Pasha, Stalin, Mao, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic, African strongmen, Latin-American Juntas, Suharto, Ferdinand Marcos, Than Shwe, Henry Kissinger, The IRA, al Qaeda, France in Algeria, Japan in China, England in Ireland, Native American genocide, Aborigines, and “The Stolen Generation,” colonial genocides, and other crazy tyrants. The Holocaust, is just a political tool, used by Jews, to justify killing Lebanese and Palestinians.
October 13th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
@David (457): The Black Death was rather evil… Those malicious flees…
6 million people dead, I don’t care who you are or what you believe, that is bad. Whatever the Holocaust has come to symbolise or even “justify” doesn’t discount that which made it so horrifying in the first place.
October 14th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
The Black Death killed more people, than any mass-murderer, famine or natural disaster their`s ever been. 50 million died in WW II, and 6 million Jews were killed by Hitler. 75 MILLION died from the plague! Obvious what`s worse! And The Plague helped bring about the conditions for The Peasant`s Revolt, where a thousand people were executed. And as for other scumbags, their`s been The Roman Empire, The Prophet Muhamad, Alexander the Great, Caligula, Kublai Khan, Hulagu Khan, Bloody Mary, Elizabeth Bathory, Robosphere, Abdul Hamid, The Thuggee Cult, Bulgarian Horrors, Triads, General Dyer, al Amin al Husseini, The Stern Gang, Franco, The CIA, Kim II Sung, Nasser, Batang Kali, Tito, Carlos the Jackal, Ne Win, Ngo Dinh Diem, Nicolae Chausescu, Lon Nol, Pinochet, Ariel Sharon, Saddam`s Sons, Uday and Qusay, The Acid-Bath Murderer, Viktor Bout, Turkmanbashi, Islam Karimov, Slobbo, The LRA, The Iceman, Dr Chaos, Hypno-Robber, Captain Killdozer, Dr Shipman, Destruction of The Rainforests, Shimon Peres, Ehud Olmert, Iran`s crazy President, Hamid Karzai-you can go on forever!
October 15th, 2009 at 6:42 am
@David (459): The Black Death wasn’t evil because “The Black Death” doesn’t have sentience. It doesn’t have a conscience, how can the Black Death be “evil”? Unless your definition of evil doesn’t require consciousness? That would be interesting… No-one could be that big a moron, could they?
There are so very evil people in your list. But Hitler killed 6 million people because they were “Jews”. What does that even mean? 6,000,000 innocent people dead. That is evil.
October 15th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
The Black Death was evil, as in it killed the most people. And sure Hitler killed 6, million Jews. Which is terrible. But hwhat about the way he killed Gypsies, Soviet POW`s, Yugoslav`s, political opponents, the handicapped, communists, socialists, Eastern Europeans, and so on? And Jews have been killed before. By the Romans, they were killed during the Crusades, they were killed by England, in the Middle Ages, until finally they were expelled by Edward I. They were killed by France, during the Plague, killed by the Inquisition, then were expelled by Ferdinand and Isabella, killed by Tsarist Russia.. What`s the difference, between them killing Jews and Hitler? And Jews were put in Concentration Camps by the British Empire on Cyprus. What`s the difference between them and Nazi Germany? And the British Empire, has one of the bloodiest records in history. Using smallpox as a weapon, in colonial America, against Native Americans, Indian Mutiny, Edward Eyre, Burma, Palestine, where Jews were flogged, and hanged, thousand`s dead in the Mau Mau Rebellion, and Malaya Emergency, Iraq, Aden, Easter Rising, Bloody Sunday, Tasmanian genocide, expulsion of Chagos islander`s, to build an American missile base, we experimented on people, (and still do) and then of course, their`s India. 30, MILLION dead, in man-made famines, put in gas chambers, having mustard gas exposed to their skin, to see the effects, Amritsar Massacre, the disastrous partition, where up to a million died.. And what about the way Christian`s have suffered over thousands of years? Nero Rome, Tamerlane, Abdul Hamid, The Ottoman Empire, The Red Terror, China, Burma, Indonesia, Iraq, Israel, Laos, Turkey, Egypt, persecution by Islamic countries, Nigeria, Sudan.. So when you compare, Hitler and Nazi Germany, to The British Empire, and treatment of Christians, it`s obvious what the worse is! And even Hitler himself, described the Empire as, “a factor of value.”
October 15th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Peter Frampton. Is there anyone you know who didn’t own Frampton Comes Alive, 1968? Bam. All right, pay it forward.
October 20th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
@David (461): They were all bad, but Hitler caused the death of more people than any of those. So if you want to go on the numbers as you’re trying to (“…India. 30, MILLION dead, in man-made famines…”) Hitler still takes the cake…
October 20th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Pol Pot
Vlad the Impaler
October 21st, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Sure he`s responsible for more deaths, but the genocide we commited against the Tasmanians, they were totally WIPED OUT. As in extinct. And they were scalped, used in eugenic experiments, put in zoos, even made into Dog food. Even Dr Mengele, didn`t do that to people! And I`m wrong-Vlad the Impaler wasn`t all bad. He killed the Muslim Ottoman Turks, who wanted to turn Europe into an Islamic shithole.
October 31st, 2009 at 4:14 am
Chairman Mao, he killed more than Stalin.
October 31st, 2009 at 3:14 pm
If you compare Evil people in real life, to people in the movies, then their`s no contest. Think of it. In the first Star Wars film, Darth Vader, blows up a planet. I can`t remember it`s name, but if Lord Vader was real, that`d make him the greatest murderer ever. So Darth Vader is the evilist person ever. And what about Satan?
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:10 am
the zodiac killer (arthur leigh allen)
November 4th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Jfrater. He is a monstrosity, a plague of titanic proportions.
Just kidding. 8D
December 27th, 2009 at 3:27 am
Pol Pot WAS one of the world’s most evil men :[ My parents were lucky enough to even survive in Cambodia at that time
December 27th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I totally agree. Pol Pot was a total monster. He commited an even worse genocide than Hitler. How come we always hear about Hitler killing people, but we never hear about Pol Pot? Do you know that when the swine died, he was burnt on a pile of rubbish and car tyres? Couldn`t have happened to a nicer person!
January 8th, 2010 at 10:06 am
What scares me is that there are ppl out there with worse mentallities (much more evil), but arent cunning enough to grab power to carry out acts… But I agree with Joseph Stalin, followed by Hitler, then Hirohito.