Hemp is the common name for plants of the entire genus Cannabis, although the term is often used to refer only to Cannabis strains cultivated for industrial (non-drug) use. Industrial hemp has many uses, including paper, textiles, biodegradable plastics, construction, health food, and fuel. It is one of the fastest growing biomasses known, and one of the earliest domesticated plants known. Here are 15 fascinating facts about the less-pleasurable version of weed. [Source]
1. All schoolbooks were made from hemp or flax paper until the 1880s. (Jack Frazier. Hemp Paper Reconsidered. 1974.)
2. It was legal to pay taxes with hemp in America from 1631 until the early 1800s. (LA Times. Aug. 12, 1981.)
3. Refusing to grow hemp in America during the 17th and 18th centuries was against the law! You could be jailed in Virginia for refusing to grow hemp from 1763 to 1769 (G. M. Herdon. Hemp in Colonial Virginia).
4. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers grew hemp. (Washington and Jefferson Diaries. Jefferson smuggled hemp seeds from China to France then to America.)
5. Benjamin Franklin owned one of the first paper mills in America, and it processed hemp. Also, the War of 1812 was fought over hemp. Napoleon wanted to cut off Moscow’s export to England. (Jack Herer. Emperor Wears No Clothes.)
6. For thousands of years, 90% of all ships’ sails and rope were made from hemp. The word ‘canvas’ comes from the Middle English word “canevas” which comes from the Latin word cannabis. (Webster’s New World Dictionary.)
7. 80% of all textiles, fabrics, clothes, linen, drapes, bed sheets, etc., were made from hemp until the 1820s, with the introduction of the cotton gin.
8. The first Bibles, maps, charts, Betsy Ross’s flag, the first drafts of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were made from hemp. (U.S. Government Archives.)
9. The first crop grown in many states was hemp. 1850 was a peak year for Kentucky producing 40,000 tons. Hemp was the largest cash crop until the 20th century. (State Archives.)
10. Oldest known records of hemp farming go back 5000 years in China, although hemp industrialization probably goes back to ancient Egypt.
11. Rembrandt’s, Van Gogh’s, Gainsborough’s, as well as most early canvas paintings, were principally painted on hemp linen.
12. In 1916, the U.S. Government predicted that by the 1940s all paper would come from hemp and that no more trees need to be cut down. Government studies report that 1 acre of hemp equals 4.1 acres of trees. Plans were in the works to implement such programs. (U.S. Department of Agriculture Archives.)
13. Quality paints and varnishes were made from hemp seed oil until 1937. 58,000 tons of hemp seeds were used in America for paint products in 1935. (Sherman Williams Paint Co. testimony before the U.S.Congress against the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act.)
14. Henry Ford’s first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the car itself was constructed from hemp! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, ‘grown from the soil,’ had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel. (Popular Mechanics, 1941.)
15. In 1938, hemp was called ‘Billion Dollar Crop.’ It was the first time a cash crop had a business potential to exceed a billion dollars. (Popular Mechanics, Feb. 1938.)















April 16th, 2009 at 12:51 am
It is interesting to see how things like the media and misconceptions can make people see things like hemp as evil.
Am I also first? Never been that before.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:51 am
whoa, nice list!
didn’t know most of these
April 16th, 2009 at 12:57 am
Wow, put that in your pipe an smoke it
April 16th, 2009 at 12:59 am
I hear it’s being legalized in the U.S. soon. Or something similar to that, anyway.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:03 am
It is funny how the “war on drugs” have cost the entire world so much progress. Oh well, that’s what happens with these “moral laws”.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:03 am
Pretty useful material. Cool.
Can’t use this for the ‘legalize pot’ argument though, since these obviously aren’t the ways people plan to use it.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:12 am
Right then im gonna start growing hemp for “paper” lol
April 16th, 2009 at 1:12 am
hell im high right now!!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:17 am
5. Frank : Ever seen a crack addict? How someone hooked on heroine? There is a very good reason to ban some drugs. But I do agree that the prohibition of hemp isn’t all that constructive.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:22 am
Mark – what about this idea: legalize all drugs and make people get them via a doctor. You get guaranteed pure drugs and a professional to manage your use and help you come off if you want to. This means the police can deal with violent crimes and drug related crimes would vanish…
April 16th, 2009 at 1:22 am
LOL! ‘Ever seen a crack addict?’ Yeah. And they look nothing like hemp farmers.
Or hemp smokers for that matter.
But you’re right, the prohibition on farming hemp was a little short-sighted. 1 acre of hemp = 4.1 of trees?! What were they thinking?!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:27 am
10. jfrater : Organized crime could be a problem there as I think is quite obvious. Plus too many hands to go through before it gets to the “doctor” – or just some guy who has a special card – anyway don’t you think? It’s a great idea in theory, but finding enough trustworthy people and even then creating and implementing a reliable system… Not going to happen unfortunately
April 16th, 2009 at 1:29 am
What about the system we have for dangerous prescription drugs now? That seems to work ok? Hell, I couldn’t even get a repeat prescription for sleeping pills!
‘Trustworthy people’ – doctors
‘Reliable system’ – Prescription services/pharmacies
Ta-da!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:40 am
Probably worth adding that the original Levi jeans were made from hemp and it’s also a foodstuff. The Wikipedia entry for hemp is a useful adjunct to this list.
I get the impression that this is still a really big agri-business (requires a license in the US and UK). If there’s any relative decline it’s not just drug panic; it’s as much about use of modern synthetic materials and (possibly) vanished markets like sailcloth.
I surmise that hemp being the main source of sailcloth (almost literally an engine of war and trade) explains why wars were fought over it and laws to grow it were passed.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:41 am
Is it completely illigal to grow hemp in the US? Here in Denmark you can grow hemp for industrial use, you just need at permit from the Ministry of Food, Agriculture and Fisheries. So you are not allowed to grow it for production of cannabis, but for all the other uses.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:42 am
13. Bloomin’ : Yeah, but, oh wait, what about growing hemp, poppies etc… Think before you post, they weren’t the only problems you gave a “solution” to.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:43 am
Whoops, Iain kind of answered my question while I was typing it…
April 16th, 2009 at 1:49 am
mark – organized crime relating to drugs ends if you can get a prescription for meth from your doctor – drug companies produce it so the costs are low and the drugs pure
April 16th, 2009 at 1:52 am
18. jfrater : The government legalizing meth o.O now that would be poor government. It’s not only the impurities, it’s the mental impacts – paranoia etc. – that can result. Not to mention that it’ll always be cheaper on the streets, the government’s going to tax it, there’s no if or but about that.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:03 am
Doctor prescribed drugs is a good idea in theory, but in real life it is still pretty ineffective. Look at pain killers. You really just have to tell a doctor you have a neck ache, and they will prescribe you a bottle. Go in a few more times and continue complaining, they’ll up the strength and amount. I have a few family members about to kill themselves because of this.
Doctors don’t care who they give drugs to, just asking for them ups his pay check. If that did anything, I think it’d make drugs more available and cause more people to use them.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:20 am
hemp is organic and an herbal plant,right? so it’s not drugs..hehehe
April 16th, 2009 at 2:24 am
in new Zealand meth is available on prescription – the only reason there are problems is that it is prescribed for very few reasons
April 16th, 2009 at 2:26 am
oh and on prescription it is $30 a month for an employed person – surely that is much cheaper than the stuff on the street which is cut with other chemicals…
April 16th, 2009 at 2:36 am
Can someone explain what exactly the difference is (if there is one) between hemp and marijuana? Is it just a difference of one you smoke and the other you don’t?
April 16th, 2009 at 2:44 am
Also, it seems as if the whole “doctors prescribing illegal drugs” thing kind of goes against the Hippocratic Oath. Just a little bit.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:46 am
Msulli – same family different effect – hemp doesn’t have the chemical that makes you high
April 16th, 2009 at 2:49 am
Darkpizza – they are legal for prescription and serve a purpose for some people – therefore no breach of the hippocratic oath
April 16th, 2009 at 2:51 am
Gosh I feel like the only person commenting
April 16th, 2009 at 2:52 am
Reefers!!
April 16th, 2009 at 2:55 am
We should add that hemp helps millions of youngsters get through History Classes and Prom nights!!
Reefers!!!
April 16th, 2009 at 2:57 am
It’s a slow morning Frater. But I’m here to back you up.
April 16th, 2009 at 3:07 am
Sivart it may help them get through the class but passing that class is a whole other thing
April 16th, 2009 at 3:08 am
H3000 thanks
April 16th, 2009 at 3:11 am
Wish i could say the same thing but it is pushing 3:30 am here and it may be bed time for this guy
April 16th, 2009 at 3:23 am
How cool would it be if every comment on this list finished with the word: Reefers! Just like that song from Sublime!!
Sounds like a challenge??
April 16th, 2009 at 3:31 am
It´s funny how people confuse hemp and weed for smoking. Hemp doesn´t have THC peoples, therefore it´s not a drug. Just nature´s magic product, more renewable, stronger, but try telling that to the Wood chip industry.
April 16th, 2009 at 3:34 am
Jfrater, what do doctors prescribe meth for?
April 16th, 2009 at 3:44 am
@DH
Wiki says attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, extreme obesity, and narcolepsy.
April 16th, 2009 at 3:48 am
I’m sorry Tri, but is your name jfrater now?
Nah, just kidding, you’re aight.
Is hemp outlawed in the states at the moment?
And honestly I see no reason for pot to be illegal.
April 16th, 2009 at 3:55 am
trigun is right – it’s for severe obesity, adult ADD, and narcolepsy – each one is fairly understandable: uppers make a high person crash (ADD), an obese person active, and help a narcolept stay awake
a natural remedy for Hyperactivity in children is a strong coffee – so same principle in adults really. Ritalin is an upper also.
April 16th, 2009 at 3:55 am
what people don’t seem to realize is that drugs in the same family as many illegal street drugs are prescribed regularly from doctors, i.e. a multitude of different amphetamines. legalizing all drugs and making them available only through prescriptions if necessary seems to be the way to go. place regulations on them like other prescribed drugs have, and voila. using the argument that there are drugs that are harmful like crack or heroin is not a good argument because, well, if you think about it, if meth and heroin became legal tomorrow, would you change your mind on whether you would do meth or heroin or not and go out and get them? I wouldn’t. the legality status does little to nothing to hinder someone wanting to get certain drugs, nor does it change a person’s decision on what drugs are okay and good (if they’re educated and research for themselves what each drug does or can do.)
April 16th, 2009 at 3:57 am
but, realizing that this is not a topic about drugs, the uses of hemp are many and numerous and the fact that 1 acre of hemp is equal to 4.1 acres of trees is crazy. why we do not use hemp more is beyond me, it’s a much more economical plant and grows so easily.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:00 am
Mattofutexas: well put – many of these drugs are available at a lower cost with the safety net of a doctor watching over. Why not make them legally available to addicts so we know who they are and can offer real help when it is needed?
April 16th, 2009 at 4:02 am
oh – and hemp sure is nifty (returning to the topic at hand)
April 16th, 2009 at 4:05 am
40. mattofutexas : You were going so well there, then bam, you hit a brick wall. I thought you were going to say that seeing as we are given similar drugs legally, why do we complain about these? If meth was legalized tomorrow people wouldn’t think anything more of taking it then taking normal amphetemines likewise with heroin and morphine. You have to realize that it’s a stigma AND it all depends on the context i.e. In a hospital, prescription, recreational etc.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:09 am
Hemp sure is. I’d rock some hemp clothes as long as they aren’t all scratchy, which I imagine them to be.
Also, Lifeschool, nice list!
April 16th, 2009 at 4:13 am
Mark: or, instead of feeding children the lying propaganda that we feed them through programs like in the U.S. D.A.R.E., we can educate them with drug education like we have in the past except not do it to just illegal drugs (which is beyond me why they do not educate about the dangers more of prescription drugs, which have a higher death rate). in the scenario presented above, we would be having drug education about the LEGAL possibly prescribed drugs, which would be everything. it would be no different than the current situation.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:17 am
also another main point is that in many cases a street drug can be more harmful because it is not pure and cut with other shit. in a world with all drugs being regulated to prescriptions, that would not be a worry. and for the record, the UK has diacetylmorphine (pure heroin) legalized, and used it in hospitals until they had a shortage and switched to mainly morphine. but it is still legal.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:18 am
46. mattofutexas : Difference, illegal drugs = very dangerous street drugs, doesn’t matter how resposibly they’re used, you’re in trouble – with some notable exceptions
Prescription drugs, given for a reason and when prescribed you will be educated about them, oh, and they’re not inherently dangerous.
I think your argument is specious…
April 16th, 2009 at 4:19 am
47. mattofutexas : Lol, at least we’re on the same page about some things obviously
Compared to morphine, pure heroin isn’t that bad at all really though…
April 16th, 2009 at 4:21 am
regardless of what people thought about taking it also Mark, it is still regulated in my scenario lol. they don’t make that decision. the docs do. the potential for abuse would be no different from today’s prescription drugs’ potential for abuse. if you can give me an argument why some drugs should be kept illegal over others, then go ahead. it also goes against freedoms, as it works much in the same way as freedom of speech, etc. if you make one thing illegal or consider one thing to be out-of-line, then where does the censorship end?
April 16th, 2009 at 4:24 am
street drugs, not considering the potential for them to be cut with something, are far less dangerous than most prescription drugs. the death rate for prescription drugs is higher. when these drugs are all regulated to prescription also, the chance of overdose is GREATLY reduced as you can only prescribe a certain amount to a patient.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:26 am
How can you be so naive as to think that legalizing all drugs with doctors’ control would eliminate drug-related crime? That makes no sense whatsoever.
It wouldn’t control drug abuse either, and it would most likely increase drug use because more people would have access to drugs. I know a lot of well-off white kids who won’t drive to Detroit to score drugs, but would certainly buy them off me if I had a prescription.
(I don’t mean weed either, but the harder stuff.)
April 16th, 2009 at 4:28 am
50. mattofutexas : But you have to regulate them, there is a reason that the government(s) haven’t legalized them for extra tax revenue yet. The fact of the matter is that you can’t buy amphetemines for recreational, so why do we have to legalize meth? Likewise with opiates, why? It’s not censorship, I don’t even see the connection.
51. mattofutexas : Not even going to bother, I think I went over it all above.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:30 am
52. Corey : I think you’ve got a good point there, all legalizing drugs will be doing is opening up a wider group of people to contact with these substances.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:31 am
one more possible note about the stigma of illegal drugs vs. prescribed drugs and education: we need to stop teaching children and actually adults about why drugs are bad because they’re “illegal”, and instead educate them on how they truly affect their body and the long-term effects as well as short-term effects. this needs to apply to all things, people should never be more concerned with the legal vs. illegal activities provided in a law than whether the law is good for moral reasons, or whether they harm persons or property. making people care more about whether things are illegal or legal takes away the people’s right to make the laws themselves in the democracy we live in and pushes them into fear and blind obedience.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:34 am
55. mattofutexas : The widespread use of street drugs would indicate that you’re mistaken on your last point. But here in Australia the handouts about illegal drugs do tell us – I’m a teenager obviously – why we shouldn’t use them, what they could do to us. Although in saying that, if I had the money, time and effort, all of that probably wouldn’t stop me anyway
April 16th, 2009 at 4:37 am
not sure if someone has stated, but you CANNOT smoke hemp. there is so little thc, that it’d be like smoking leaves.
so that being said, there is absolutely no reason for it to be illegal. it’s all thanks to dupont.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:40 am
57. dvrains : If having THC is a reason to be illegal then hemp should be, you can concentrate it… In saying that I don’t think that containing THC should make something illegal so don’t bite my head off.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:49 am
Corey: what is “drug-related crime”? a crime caused by drugs? the people commit the crimes regardless of what drugs they’re on. if you can show me proof that a drug is causal rather than happening at the same time for someone committing a crime, then go ahead, I want to see it, because I really don’t know of it.
Mark: to your response about my 50 post, there is no legitimate reason that I can see why marijuana hasn’t been legalized for extra tax revenue, so argument is invalid. you wouldn’t be buying anything for recreational, you would be getting it prescribed to you from a doc if necessary; your argument works both ways, why are some amphetamines legalized over meth? why are some opiates legalized over heroin, such as Fentanyl which is ummm 81 TIMES STRONGER THAN MORPHINE, hence way stronger and way more dangerous than heroin. people buy and sell adderall from others who have prescriptions like it’s nothing, and yes that crime would continue as the sole drug-related crime. as for your response to my 51 post, what did you clear up that negates anything I said in 51? “Difference, illegal drugs = very dangerous street drugs, doesn’t matter how resposibly they’re used, you’re in trouble – with some notable exceptions” is not correct, as I stated in 51 that the death rate for prescription LEGAL drugs is higher than those of street drugs. look it up. and what did you say that negates my second part that the chance of overdose would be greatly reduced? lol. and eliminating drug abuse should not be the goal of making drugs illegal vs. legal, drug abuse is gonna continue no matter what the status of drugs are; but if you look at the facts I think it is clearly obvious that if people are better educated on the dangers and true effects of drugs then they can educatedly decide for themselves what is good and what is not, much better than the propaganda fed to them right now because things are “illegal.” Drug abuse will continue no matter what happens to the legality of drugs, but the drugs aren’t going away, they’re gonna exist nonetheless. Prohibition does NOT WORK. And on the note of drug abuse increasing, I think it will be much harder for someone to get heroin prescribed to them than it will for it to be bought on the street, and if I had to guess the people prescribed heroin probably would need it more than their desire to sell it out, since it would probably only be prescribed (if it would even be prescribed hardly ever in the first place rather than regulated to just hospitals) for very serious medical reasons.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:50 am
time for class, bye
April 16th, 2009 at 4:54 am
REEEEFFFFFEEEERRR!!!!!!
April 16th, 2009 at 5:12 am
The sad fact of the matter is that it’s the potheads who help give hemp a bad name by fooling the public into associating an extremely versatile, environment-friendly crop with their vile, polluting, criminal addiction. It’s like the difference between edible and poisonous mushrooms (both the killer and ‘recreational’ varieties).
April 16th, 2009 at 5:22 am
59. mattofutexas : For fuck sake “Prohibition does NOT WORK” then why do we bother? Let’s legalize everything, fuck it! Why can’t teenagers drink? Let’s all do some crack while we’re at it. Seriously, if that’s your view you can go shove it buddy. We can’t just legalize these things, they’re far too dangerous. If I had a choice between all or nothing, I’d pick nothing in a heartbeat. Sure some sick people are going to die, but it’d save a lot of other – on average very young – lives.
To reply a bit more calmly to your earlier points, lol… I’ll have you know that all kinds of opiates and amphetemines are used in hospitals, why should we legalize all of these for people to use? Because you wanna get high? Give a reason other then “Well, we use them sometimes, so let’s have’em all”.
And on the matter of drug abuse increasing, if someone wants heroin and can’t get it prescribed were are they going to go? You think they’re gonna go home and say “Darn, I couldn’t get my fix, oh well, that smart government out-foxed me yet again”. No, they’re going to hit the streets.
April 16th, 2009 at 5:34 am
Additional useless fact. My family were hemp farmer’s in England way back. My real last name means son of rope maker, and my family crest has Hemp breaks on it.
Just throwing that crap out for ya.
I own a lot of Hemp clothes they kick cotton’s ass.
April 16th, 2009 at 5:39 am
April 16th, 2009 at 5:44 am
Also, the statue of liberty is actually about 85% hemp and the french children who so famously helped raise the money for the statue were hemp. Old Ironsides was actually hemp and the first 5 apollo rockets were hemp. The first home computers were made almost entirely of hemp also your face is hemp.
April 16th, 2009 at 5:46 am
“legalize all drugs and make people get them via a doctor”?
Because, by doing it this way, there are no addiction problems with prescription drugs?
When you’ve seen someone call doctors at all hours of the night, visit the ER room unnecessarily, forge prescriptions, steal prescriptions from elderly/family members, visit multiple doctors/dentists within the same day, etc., you’ll retract that arguement.
Although legalizing marijuana and making it prescription only might be a valid arguement.
April 16th, 2009 at 5:48 am
I built an entire dining room set out of mescaline.
April 16th, 2009 at 5:58 am
wow i never realised hemp was so useful. why are we not growing it? it doesnt need to be grown for weed.
April 16th, 2009 at 6:01 am
OOUCHAN- Good Morning to you Senorita~
April 16th, 2009 at 6:04 am
10. jfrater – I like your idea and I think in true respect to my opinionon it thatit should be brought up to congress. It keeps good control on the drug and it can make congress happy by giving them something else they can TAX.
April 16th, 2009 at 6:07 am
So, since we have determined that hemp is a) very useful and b) not a drug, is there any type of hemp lobby petitioning to legalize it and/or bring it into mainstream use?
April 16th, 2009 at 6:12 am
Legalizing marijuana would likely allow it to be used for medicinal purposes only; primarily pain management and glaucoma. It would have to be used in the privacy of your home (not while driving, or in public places due to the contact high). Imagine how many people would want to get into the farming for distribution to Rx companies? I doubt they would grow it on their own(although if they did, imagine the stock potential?) And the legal product may be controlled to be weaker than the street product, so I think the impact on illegal sales wouldn’t be as great as we think. I wonder if they’d be allowed to advertise on TV?
April 16th, 2009 at 6:19 am
Hemp is legal to grow for industrial use in the United States with the proper DEA permit, I believe. As far as personal use, I don’t know if you would be able to petition for the same permit.
April 16th, 2009 at 6:25 am
Very interesting. Didn’t know that hemp is that much better than trees for paper in terms of acreage. Sounds like we should encourage a switch to hemp paper. The cynic in me though thinks that if that were to happen, people who grow lumber for paper would just chop down all their forests and plant hemp.
April 16th, 2009 at 6:30 am
Did anyone else notice that there were more than 15 facts there. There were sometimes 2 or 3 facts all rolled up into one. Regardless it was still a good list.
April 16th, 2009 at 6:34 am
Cool list, I always knew that Hemp was useful but some of these points blew my mind
Also, with regards to the whole legalizing drugs thing, and making it prescription…. I am surprised that nobody mentioned the effects of the Portuguese’s decision to legalize ALL drugs…
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Portugals_drug_decriminalization_bizarrely_underappreciated_Greenwald_0406.html
April 16th, 2009 at 6:53 am
Beastly list
April 16th, 2009 at 6:58 am
#13. It’s SherWin-Williams Paint Company, not SherMan-Williams. A simple error, but as a former employee it drives me nuts to here it.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:03 am
Great list Lifeschool! I knew a bunch of these from school. Interesting list.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:06 am
59)Regarding drug related crime…the two I can think of off the top of my head are Chris Benoit and Phil Hartman. Chris had elevated levels of testosterone and it’s been widely speculated he killed his wife and child in a fit of roid rage. Phil Hartmans wife has a BAC of .12, as well as cocaine in her system when she shot and killed Phil and herself. Are these things 110% beyond a shadow of a doubt causal links? No, I suppose not, but it gives a hell of a lot of credence to the “don’t do coke with a gun around” arguement.
Those examples don’t even begin to touch on the less famous, more conventional drug related crimes- theft, assult, and the like for the pure purpose of getting drugs. Yes, people commit crimes while sober, and yes people commit crimes while high, but ABSOLUTELY people commit crimes BECAUSE they are high or want to be.
As an addendum to Jamie- would there be an age limit on your “solution” to this problem or are you in favor of giving a 15 year old pregnant addict an RX for heroin? No? She’ll still get it.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:12 am
The whole “I grew hemp” thing is so stupid. The sort of people who deface money like that *think* it means “I smoked MJ.” If you can call what happens in their head thiniking, that is. Obviously George Washington was not lighting up not taking bong hits for Jesus.
Get a clue, rotheads.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:15 am
There are many drugs that are used very well in the medical field to treat disease, illness and pain ect…
I say JFraters’ idea is that with the Medical Profession handling these drugs and grant it many of them DO serve a beneficialimprovement to life would offer control and regulation. Sure it will at times get into thwe wrong hands but for the most part it will be it the right hands too as needed.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:29 am
What does the government gain from making hemp illegal?
Many of their friends would be forced out of jobs/ salary slashes? companies and government angencies and stock markets would collapse… all in the name of *the war on drugs* lol they are protecting us lol whos protecting us from them
I have to go now and legally abuse some prescription drugs that were advertised *spammed* on tv last night
April 16th, 2009 at 7:37 am
Hear it, duh.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:39 am
I’d like to agree with Adam, check out the effects of legalizing drugs in Portuguese.
I want hemp shampoo, they sell it everywhere now and suppose to be very healthy for your hair.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:39 am
Left out a big important fact about the 4.1/1 ratio. While 4.1 acres of trees makes as much paper as 1 acre of hemp, the hemp plant that is harvested one year can be grown back and harvested the next year. With trees, you’re looking at a 20 year turn around in a sustainable forest. It’s really a no brainer and we should be ashamed of not taking advantage of this plant.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:50 am
Be careful what you wish for. Think about the effect on the price of fruit and vegetables. What farmer in his right mind would harvest produce when he could legally grow an easy cash crop of weed instead? Fresh produce would overnight become exorbitantly expensive.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:08 am
Ok, I have been reading listverse daily for about a year now, and have never commented, but I feel like today is the day.
If drugs are illegal or not, people that want them will get them. There is no question about that. The question is, are we going to be a responsible people, and give them out in a manner that is regulated, or are we going to let these people go to a street corner, or crack house and try to score? I don’t believe that the government has any right to tell me what I can, or cannot, put into my body. If drug companies are able to sell adderrol, then why can they not sell meth? Crush up a few adderrol and it is almost the exact same as a line of meth. But meth is made in a bathroom, sold to someone else, who cuts it with baby laxitave then sells it to someone else who cuts it again. By the time the user gets it, it has been through many hands and you never know what is in it anymore. If you had to get it through a Dr. you would know what was in it. And to the people who keep saying that if it is regulated, it just gives everyone a right to go get it, by that arugment EVERYONE would be taking morphine, eating adderrol, and OxyContin. But guess what, they aren’t.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:08 am
I would even support legalizing cocaine for medical reasons. I have heard of it to be a very effective in EXTREME cases of major depression under clinical control.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:14 am
90. Lauren : Commenting, now that was a mistake. Walk away now while you still can…
April 16th, 2009 at 8:16 am
92. mark: I’m all registered now, and ready to go! (by the way this is Lauren) Thanks though.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:18 am
I also agree with having some of the harder drugs as prescriptions.
1) It can generate money
2) Partially regulated
3) They were going to get it anyway
Yes, prescriptions are abused because doctors don’t seem to care anymore. For the medical issues I have, my doctor prescribed some mj. I laughed. I don’t need it. Just because it’s there, doesn’t mean I have to take advantage of it. I try other methods. I don’t want to go that route unless it’s absolutely necessary. With every good there comes a bad.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:22 am
93. SheSaid : I never bothered registering, still get lots of posts though. Good luck with, you know, everything – sleeping, eating, school/work – now that you’re here, you’ll find it a lot more difficult
April 16th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Lauren, alcohol is regulated and legal and not EVERYONE drinks. EVERYONE doesn’t do anything collectively. However, like you said if a 16 year old really wants a case of beer, they’ll get it. If a pill addict really wants oxy and can’t get a prescription, they’ll get it. If a herion addict really wants that heroin and can get it via a prescription or breaking into a doctors office, guess what? They’ll get it. So it’s pure and not cut. They do the same amount they’re used to doing when it’s cut with other things, but the high is purer, and they OD and die. Wonderful. Or, they only get a small amount because of the regulation, can’t get the high they want (most drugs require doing more to get high as the body regulates itself to the drug) then go out on the street anyway to buy it, then OD and die.
Additionally, IF that was even an option, cybogen is talking about legalizing for medical reasons- I still think thats a terrible idea but I can at least see the value. Where’s the value in letting random coke/meth/heroin heads have their fix? How does that make them or the drug problem better?
April 16th, 2009 at 8:28 am
96. callie_ : “…if a 16 year old really wants a case of beer, they’ll get it…” Yep
Controlled environment? Get a bunch of crackheads together and get them all high so they have some fun… Just throwing the ides out there… Don’t kill me or anything…
April 16th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Lauren makes a good point. Prescription drugs that are more powerful then illegal drugs are readily available and their abuse is not as bad as the illegal ones. Yes Prescription Drugs are abused but that is because the ones that are abused are more readily available through prescription. You may have people getting Vicodin or Oxycotin but it is a lot harder for people to access morphine, you have to be confined to a hospital to receive morphine. It would be a similar situation. I am not saying that there wouldn’t still be abuse but it may be better then the situation we have right now. Where people do stupid things to get drugs and drugs that are often full of crap that could really hurt them. It may not end the problem but it would certainly reduce it. I just read that article on Portugal and would suggest the rest of you read it as well.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Portugals_drug_decriminalization_bizarrely_underappreciated_Greenwald_0406.html
April 16th, 2009 at 8:33 am
96 Callie: Never once did I say that I wanted to give it to random drug addicts. I did however say that if it is regulated, there is at least some responsibility to it. If I was to walk out onto the street and buy meth, theres no telling what is in it. If you were to walk into a drs office and get it, at least you know what you are getting. Going along with having to get it from a dr, is the fact that as a nation, we would be able to know who is doing what as far as drugs go. I’m sorry, but if someone gets it into their head that they are going to do drugs, you aren’t going to stop them. Perhaps if someone was to go get their meth/heroin, we could keep an eye on them. Just bc you could get drugs from a dr does not mean that someone who isnt going to do drugs will suddenly decide to. It just gives us some form of control over the situation.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:40 am
100. Name so gay it’s not worth mentioning : Yeah, kinda got that from your name…
April 16th, 2009 at 8:42 am
HOLD ON A SECOND!
Lifeschool’s list – 15 FASCINATING FACTS ABOUT HEMP
Read the header paragraph – “Cannabis strains cultivated for industrial (non-drug) use”
REPEAT – STRAINS
Lets see what those 15 items are pertaining to.
1. fiber
2. fiber
3. fiber
4. fiber
5. fiber
6. fiber
7. fiber
8. fiber
9. fiber
10. fiber
11. fiber
12. fiber
13. seed oil
14. fiber
15. fiber
WOW – no THC!!!
That’s right, cannabis sativa proliferated not to stone the masses, but as commodity.
So you might ask “who couldn’t resist smoking the greifo if you had 5000 acres of the stuff?”
Sorry to disappoint you – but you are acting like this stuff is Thai-stick or something. Sorry to bust the bubble, but crop hemp had about enough THC in it to stone a fruit fly.
This same hemp strain, to this day, grows wild around parts of the central plains (US). Kansas had acres and acres of the stuff growing along the side of the road back in the sixties and seventies – some jokers were always trying to push the stuff off as THC cannabis, usually got their asses kicked too.
I haven’t heard of some of these uses, but I can assure you if you have ever handled plain “manila” rope or twine, there’s a good chance you were handling sativa hemp, so toke it up and I’ll have a hearty guffaw in advance!
April 16th, 2009 at 8:45 am
“Never once did I say that I wanted to give it to random drug addicts.”
Ok, you didn’t say those words, but who do you honestly think would go to a doctors office to get drugs? Sure, you would get the club kids who want some coke for weekend fun, you would get the potheads, but the bulk of patients would be addicts with no medical reason to use drugs. You DID say you’re against government tell you what to do with your body, which I can only assume by extention means you don’t want them telling other people what to put into or do with theirs. So yes, by that I think you’re supporting the drug habits of addicts who could possibly get clean one day if they wound up in treatment instead of having a doctor who took the oath to do no harm enabling them. Tell me, what happens when the doctor remembers that oath and tells his druggie patient he will no longer prescribe the dose he has in the past, or will stop prbscirbing altogether because the addict CLEARLY needs help? Do you think the addict will go with that, say “thanks doc, I really do. Let’s check me into rehab right now!” or do you think that addict might possibly get violent, or steal what they need?
April 16th, 2009 at 8:54 am
A very relevant, yet underplayed component to this issue of marijuana legalization is generational, which might well be a gamechanger. Obama, and many of his key appointees, are members of Generation Jones—born 1954-1965, between the Boomers and Generation X [Google Generation Jones, and you’ll see it’s gotten a ton of media attention, and many top commentators from many top publications and networks (Washington Post, Time magazine, NBC, Newsweek, ABC, etc.) now specifically use this term. Here is a recent op-ed in USA TODAY about GenJones as the new generation of leadership: http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20090127/column27_st.art.htm.
GenJones’ role as the new generation of leadership may be a gamechanger re. the drug issue for at least two main reasons:
1) Jonesers are by far the biggest pot smokers compared to the other generations. While Boomers are associated with pot, it was only a small, albeit very visible, segment of Boomers who actually smoked pot back in the day. Govt. and independent studies show that Jonesers as teens (in the 1970s) smoked 15 to 20 times more pot than Boomers did as teens. And not only did Jonesers smoke much more grass than any other generation of teens in US history, but still today in middle-age smoke it a remarkable amount. The data is really striking.
2) One of the key collective personality traits consistently attributed to Jonesers is their pragmatism. This is a generation which is far likelier to put aside ideology and deal with drugs in a realistic and practical way.
If ever there was a generation of leadership open to legalizing pot, it is Generation Jones. And if there ever was a time that the country might be open to this change in drug laws, it may be now…given the cash infusion that taxes on legalized pot would bring to this troubled economy, coupled with the easing of the escalating drug violence in Mexico legalization would likely bring.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Do you think that the addict will not get violent in the street? Do you think that the addict is more likely to go into treatment while out on the street? Or is he more likely to get help when it can be offered to him everytime he goes to reup? And yes I am against the government telling me what to put in my body, and yes it does extend to others. I believe that your treatment argument has no basis, because I know there are people out there getting drugs off the street who want to be in treatment, but either don’t know how to go about it, or don’t have the money for a facility. How bout if we take the tax from our legal sales, and make more free treatment facilities? Theres a novel idea, use the drug taxes to help the drug addicts.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:01 am
callie_ and SheSaid: I like both of your points.
There is no clear answer because we haven’t tried it yet. I did read that story on Portugal and who knows? It might work. I tend to agree that it should be legalized only because they are going to get it anyway. Why not profit and make it beneficial as we can? It won’t be 100% effective but it might be a start.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:04 am
mattofutexas:
OK, so in this scenario what would you need to get a prescription of crack or heroin? Would “I just want to try it” work?
Although I do agree with that we need to educate people on the effects different drugs have on their bodies, not just say “this is illegal so dont do it.”
And one more thing… “the chance of overdose is GREATLY reduced as you can only prescribe a certain amount to a patient” (comment 52)… Wouldnt that invalidate all you are saying about legal prescription drugs? You would get the exact same problem. People using more than they need, trading to others (still considered illegal drug distribution in my book). You cannot make a case against legal prescription drugs and then say that making all illegal drugs legal would be the solution!
April 16th, 2009 at 9:04 am
oouchan, I do agree with you. I see points from callie_’s arguement, but of course I prefer mine
There can be no benifit to the country as a whole if people are on the streets buying and using drugs. If we made it into a regulated business however we would get tax dollars from it, and perhaps would get people into rehab far before they would bring themselves from the street.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:17 am
I absolutely think they would be violent in the street. They would then be charged with assult as well as possesion, and some with intent to distribute. In my state, a second offense of possesion with intent is a minimum 10 years sentence. Felony assault, on the other hand, carries a minimum one year with possibility of parole. Which one do you think would be a harsher deterrant? If drugs are legalized, possesion charges go out the window.
Plus, if you’ve ever known an addict, you try telling them every time they get a fix, or every day, or every time they’re actually around that they have a problem and need help, that they’re killing your family, that they’re tearing you apart. I grew up with an addict and I have the scars to prove it, both mentally and physically, so good luck with that. I also have been on the other side of people telling me I needed help or I was going to die, and I had to be forcibly committed to rehab twice (not for drugs) Addicts don’t listen to reason, they listen to their addiction.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:20 am
109. callie_ : Wait, so you’re ok for an addict who would’ve had no idea what the hell was going on to go away for 10 years? I thought you were all for rehab, in prison all they’ll get is more drugs…
April 16th, 2009 at 9:20 am
addition real quick: I was also well aware I had a problem, and I needed help, I just didn’t care enough. That’s where the problem lies. Addicts can say they want to quit all they want, cause they probably do, and my parents had more than enough money to afford treament, but you jus can’t stop.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Mark yes, there’s a huge black market for drugs in prisons, but there’s also some very good rehab programs.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Callie
You do realize that there are thousands upon thousands of drug addicts in America who are not addicted to Illegal drugs, rather they are addicted to legally prescribed drugs. Are you saying that since some of those people abuse prescription drugs that therefore noone should have access to them. You also are assuming that a (illegal) addict is only going to go to a doctor to continue to get high. However Methadone is regularly prescribed for heroin addicts who are trying to get away from being an addict. You also are supposing that the government has a vested interested in putting people in treatment for their addiction. That’s not true at all especially here in the states where the solution is more along the lines of put them in prison for inordinate amounts of time with serious hardened criminals and then toss them out on the streets with little or no support to stop them from returning to addiction. I’m also assuming that IF illegal drugs were legalized you would go out the next day and get high, smoke meth, inject heroin and sniff coke JUST because it is legal, right?
April 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
112. callie_ : Maybe, I wouldn’t know, but what I do know is that an addict is going to get their fix, not rehab.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:25 am
I am 4 years clean of meth. I wanted help. I wanted to stop. I had no idea how to go about it. If I had had someone willing to help me I would have quit a year before I did. I didn’t know where to turn. If someone had said while I was trying to score, you know, if you want you can go to rehab instead, I would have saved myself and others alot of hurt. But I didn’t know, so I kept going. And, yes, you can just stop. I finally did. I took the drastic approach, and up and moved. Left everyone and everything I knew. Most addicts, youre right, don’t want to listen, but what about the ones that do? What about the ones who can’t afford help?
April 16th, 2009 at 9:28 am
115. SheSaid : They’re screwed, short, sweet, simple and to the point. What can be done to help these people? Don’t get me wrong, I do feel empathy, but I just don’t see how it’s going to work.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:28 am
60 matto: what is “drug-related crime”? a crime caused by drugs? the people commit the crimes regardless of what drugs they’re on. if you can show me proof that a drug is causal rather than happening at the same time for someone committing a crime, then go ahead
“Drug related crime” does not particularly refer just to people committing crimes while under the influence.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:32 am
116. Mark
What can be done to help these people? Therapy. Rehab. Groups. Have you ever met anyone who got sboer? Have you ever met anyone, for example, in AA? There is help, there is a solution. The problem is, when you are so deep into your addiction that you need these things, they can be, or seem to be, unattainable. Treatment facilities can be expensive. Rehab can be far away from where you are. You can not know how to find a center to begin with! They are not screwed. They don’t know how to help themselves, and wiht the public believing they are screwed, they have no one to turn to.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:42 am
118. SheSaid : The public doesn’t think they’re screwed just me, the lazy, cynical asshole. I realize what you’re saying, but what percentage of addicts do you think actually manage to get clean, 5? 10? It can’t be too much so all I’m saying is that I don’t see a way out for most of them, and arguing about it here on LV isn’t going to help anyone.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:44 am
119. I think the percentages are much higher than you are estimating but you are right arguing on LV isn’t fixing anything.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:48 am
120. SheSaid : I don’t think they are, just walk aroung town and look at all the addicts. Then of course take into account all of those who’ve already left us. After that walk into a rehab facility, 5-10% rehabilitation is probably optimistic
April 16th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Enjoyed the list – entertaining reading.
106 oouchan great minds think alike – well done.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:54 am
I know that of all the people I hung out with (about 10) 1 died, 2 went to jail, 1 still uses, and 6 are clean. I know that is a small group, but if you think of all the people out there who have been addicted to something. Also, look at alcoholics as a reference, there are many many recovered alcoholics. The reason you hear more often about recovered alcoholics, is the embarrassing stigma that goes along with being a drug addict. I believe there are probably recovered drug addicts in your daily life, they just dont like to talk about it.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Well, let me restate that. I didn’t mean there are probably recovered drug addicts in your daily life. I meant that the odds of you, or anyone, knowing a recovered drug addict (and being unaware of it) are pretty good. Even if someone wasn’t an “adict” persay, there are alot of people who were, or still are, heavy users. Alot of times, you wouldn’t even know it unless they told you.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Yet another reason why I love Alaska….. it’s legal! Up to a point where as long as it is grown for “personal use” and is not a crop large enough for “distribution” its cool! Hell pretty much every person I meet… and I work for the school district here…. smokes. The only people I have met that do no smoke are religious zealots.! So take some MTF (Matanuska thunder f*ck) and toke up! Mellow out and smile!
April 16th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Despite the fact that industrial grade hemp has around zero THC I think it would be cool to have some hemp rolling papers for my…um…rolled cigarettes. It just seems so right y’know?
Too bad perception has put a bad overview on this marvelous plant and it’s more pleasurable cousin. It’s way less harmful to the body than alcohol…not that I’m putting down alcohol. I enjoy it very much in all it’s drinkable forms.
Cheers! And light’em up boys…
April 16th, 2009 at 10:14 am
126. CurtShmurt : “…not that I’m putting down alcohol. I enjoy it very much in all it’s drinkable forms….” Except wood and pure grain alcohol I hope, or else you’d most likely be blind – well actually you’d most likely be dead but w/e
April 16th, 2009 at 10:17 am
If someone uses a drug, legal or not, and it winds up to be his or her demise: so be it. That’s a blanket statement and of course there will be exceptions, but if a user or abuse gets addicted and then dies from overdose, that was the choice he or she made. If someone becomes addicted to a prescription drug, or if we assume all drugs are legalized, becomes addicted to a drug; it’s up to him or her to seek help, or the friends and family members to assist.
If some crackhead overdoses and dies on the street, that’s one less crackhead and an improvement on society. If you legalize all drugs there will be easier access to them, but at the same rate, those who abuse them will wind up either dying or pushing death. If they don’t learn from the near-death experience, then perhaps they weren’t meant to learn.
As for an overall view of drugs, people should realize that drugs alter chemistry and can cause permanent damage or even lead to death. If you take the chance and you suffer the consequences, such is the risk and such is life.
Drugs are by and large unnatural, and while I recognize that there are people who need drugs to right an imbalance, anyone who abuses a drug deserves the outcome.
Lastly, marijuana is not a drug; it is a plant.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:20 am
128. Travisthechimp : Ooh, touchy, touchy. Can’t wait to wake up tomorrow and see how badly you get ripped for this. I just wanted to get one thing in before bed, marijuana isn’t a drug THC – which is what makes you high – is.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:26 am
This is just one of the reasons I voted for Ron Paul…
April 16th, 2009 at 10:27 am
106. oouchan – I agree with you and that its worth they try. Also that video from Portugal linked from another commentator was interesting.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:27 am
I don’t know if this is been said, but after looking at a lot of comments I thought I would point out:
YOU CAN’T SMOKE HEMP…
Well you can but it won’t get you high. Marijuana does not come from the same strain of Cannabis that Hemp does.
Also, here in Canada its still legal to grow Hemp, we export a lot to the US, because they don’t distinguish between Marijuana and Hemp.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Hey all! Having a good day? At last, one of my newer lists has been printed! Wow. So glad you seemed to like it. For me, no.12 was the hard hitter – if only we could get Brazil to reduce it’s beef export targets, there would be no reason to chop down our most precious resource – the rainforest.
Anyhoo, I’ll be on here for the next 20mins or so, so I’ll go through the comments as I read them.
9, 10, 12 (JFrater vs Mark) “what about this idea: legalize all drugs and make people get them via a doctor.”
In portugal, 8 years ago, they decided to take a step towards that we they decriminalised all drugs. Instead a a state which said “YOU MUST NOT”, it became a state of “LET US HELP YOU”. Let me quote you something… “In 2001, Portugal began a remarkable policy experiment, decriminalizing all drugs, including cocaine and heroin. Some predicted disastrous results—that drug addiction rates would soar and the country would become a haven for “drug tourists.” Now that several years have passed, policy experts can study the results. In a new paper for the Cato Institute, attorney and author Glenn Greenwald closely examines the Portugal experiment and concludes that the doomsayers were wrong. There is now a widespread consensus in Portugal that decriminalization has been a success.”
See this report in video here:
http://cato.org/event.php?eventid=5887
April 16th, 2009 at 10:33 am
129. Mark, it was my understanding the THC occurred naturally in the cannabis family? Perhaps there’s something I’m missing.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:43 am
12. In 1916, the U.S. Government predicted that by the 1940s all paper would come from hemp and that no more trees need to be cut down. Government studies report that 1 acre of hemp equals 4.1 acres of trees. Plans were in the works to implement such programs. (U.S. Department of Agriculture Archives.)
****
Let’s consider this fact for a moment.
Right now we are destroying forests and woodland at such a rate that it will not, can not, be replaced within our lifetimes. The trees give us an essential for life: Oxygen. They also act as home for entire ecosystems of animals and plants we haven’t even discovered yet, some of which may prove (if we get to them in time) to be the key to curing all kinds of diseases now killing mankind.
I could rant on for pages on this, but everyone with a working brain can see where I’m going…Global Climate Change, Extinction of Species, unbreathable air…bye bye happiness, hello loneliness, it’s just another ordinary day.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:51 am
45: Mark “it’s a stigma AND it all depends on the context” – I quite agree. In portugal, there have been two major outcomes as regards the ’stigma’ effect. 1) By taking away the stigma of drugs, the DARE factor (the rebellion, the cool, etc) was removed and the study found there was little initiative to dabble in drugs if it was not ‘wrong’ in the first place. And 2) The stigma removal also changed portugese culture and attitude towards the government and towards help programmes. I suppose I could also add a 3) The money saved from drug propoganda and police busts went into clinics and friendly advisers, which actually saved the gov’t face and money.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Marv (113) are you kidding me with that? DC is not that far from baltimore, where I live, so you and I are dealing with the same sort of street addicts. That said:
“Are you saying that since some of those people abuse prescription drugs that therefore noone should have access to them.”
Nope. There is a valid medical reason for those drugs. A better analogy would have been because some people abuse alcohol should no one have access to it? My answer is still no. People abuse all sorts of things “normal” people wouldn’t- drugs, food, sex, gambling. We certainly aren’t going to outlaw everything because some people spoil the fun. What I DO think is that presciptions for widley abused drugs are not nearly regulated enough- someone mentioned earlier how easy they are to get. For instance I made an off hand comment to my doctor about an upcoming vacation a few years ago and mentioned I was a nervous flier. He offered me xanex on the spot. Just think if I had said I needed to stay up and study and coke was legal.
“You also are assuming that a (illegal) addict is only going to go to a doctor to continue to get high. However Methadone is regularly prescribed for heroin addicts who are trying to get away from being an addict.”
Methadone is a drug that controls withdrawl symptoms, and therefore has a valid medical use. See my response above for that one. Does heroin have a valid medical use? Do the medical uses of cocaine outweigh the risks that come with it?
“You also are supposing that the government has a vested interested in putting people in treatment for their addiction. That’s not true at all especially here in the states where the solution is more along the lines of put them in prison for inordinate amounts of time with serious hardened criminals and then toss them out on the streets with little or no support to stop them from returning to addiction. ”
I’m sorry, but I think anyone selling drugs deserves to be put away- especially those that use children as runners and sell to kids. That IS a hardened criminal to me- anyone with complete disregard for the lives of others is. Maybe that’s just me.
“I’m also assuming that IF illegal drugs were legalized you would go out the next day and get high, smoke meth, inject heroin and sniff coke JUST because it is legal, right?”
No, but the reason I don’t do them now has nothing to do with the fact that it is illegal. I drank before it was legal, and I didn’t think at the time nor do I now that the drinking age should have been lowered. If I was addicted to any of those I would think my lucky day had come. There would be no valid reason to stop, and I would probably think ip some sort of excuse that because the government lets this go on, it can’t really be that bad for me. Viva la heroin.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:55 am
115. SheSaid -
Hey I want to congratulate you on being 4 years free of meth. I am sure it was a very difficult thing for you to do and I applaud you for your achievement. I just had a question or 2 if you wouldn’t mind purely for my understanding of the influence of the drug. First if you can compare it to other drugs…how would you rate its addiction potential in relationship to lets say heroin or cocaine or even other lesser type drugs. Secondly what was the point that made you say to youtrself I have to quit? Thanks to your response and keep up the good work mate!
April 16th, 2009 at 10:58 am
135: Segue – you took the words (and a few more) right out of my mouth. I suppose that’s what I mean’t in the 133 post regarding item #12. As a matter of interest, I only found out about the current state of the rain forest because I’m a member of greenpeace – and get their newsletter.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:04 am
#48: “the UK has diacetylmorphine (pure heroin) legalized, and used it in hospitals until they had a shortage and switched to mainly morphine.” – once again, the misconception among the majority is that opium (herion) is harmful when in fact it is the additives which cause the most harm. Given in clean and regular supply it’s harmless. Unfortunately, street heroin is nether ‘clean’ or ‘regular’ and lets not forget that although the pure stuff is legal, withdrawal from any narcotic can be HORRIFIC! Don’t do it kids.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Mark: “For fuck sake “Prohibition does NOT WORK” then why do we bother? Let’s legalize everything, fuck it! Why can’t teenagers drink? Let’s all do some crack while we’re at it. Seriously, if that’s your view you can go shove it buddy. We can’t just legalize these things, they’re far too dangerous. If I had a choice between all or nothing, I’d pick nothing in a heartbeat. Sure some sick people are going to die, but it’d save a lot of other – on average very young – lives.”
This proves you never paid attention to the point of all my arguments about legalizing with heavy restrictions. I never advocated legalizing everything so teenagers can drink and we can all get together and do some crack. I advocated legalizing with heavy restrictions for the more harmful drugs, through prescriptions. Your ignorant banter in the first five sentences amuses me, for the fact that it completely ignores everything I have said before and takes it in a completely different direction. You are not good at arguing.
107 GTT: I think it is pretty much understood that there should be heavy restrictions on heroin and crack if legalized as both can be very harmful, and I’m sure they would only be prescribed in very minute amounts if prescribed at all. Heroin, for example, I do not really see a reason off the top of my head that heroin would be prescribed, but hospitals could use it much in the same way that morphine or fentanyl is used with the rare exceptions. And as far as the legal drugs killing more than street drugs (which is a true fact, google info), and me advocating that the risk of overdose would go greatly down, I see those as being unrelated for the fact that there are many prescription drugs which are FAR more potent and dangerous than any street drug available to anyone (other than drugs cut with other things), legal right now. Prescribing certain amounts keeps the risk down, however, when it comes to addiction people might take more and more. But street drugs pale in comparison to some drugs you can receive through prescription or in a hospital right now, all talk of legalizing everything aside. Fentanyl is 81 times stronger than morphine, while heroin is illegal. Overdose of fentanyl is 81x easier than overdosing on morphine, and therefore 100x easier than overdosing on heroin. Have you ever seen someone use fentanyl recreationally? They can barely stand at all, I have seen it and been around it. The overdoses are still gonna continue, but at least they can be controlled and addiction can be observed and hopefully rectified. For those of you that think when drugs are legalized and restricted that you can just go in and ask for meth or heroin or any of the very hard drugs, that would never work. The ones who need those hard, hard drugs would be in SERIOUS need of them, you cannot exactly fake being near death to get a prescription so you can sell it to people.
I want to use the last part of this post to point out to everyone that there are a multitude of prescription drugs in the same family as illegal drugs that are MUCH more potent and dangerous than their illegal counterparts. Do your research.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:09 am
138. cybogen, Thanks! It was really hard, but I scared myself so badly I realized I had no other option. As for the addictive quality, I can’t say anything about heroin (luckly never tried it) I can say meth is very much like cokex5. It is basically an amped up version, in that it too is an upper, but its effects are much stronger. I know that when I started, I had been doing coke, but wasnt getting much effect/had to do tons to get the feeling I wanted. The first time I tried meth, I was in love. As to why I stopped, I tried to call in to work one morning bc I had been on a 5 day bender, and couldn’t remember my own name to tell my boss who I was. I realized then, that I had 2 options. Completely lose myself and die, or quit. I chose to quit.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:13 am
137 callie_: THANK YOU. Everything in your post makes sense. I still drink before I’m 21, I turn 21 in July, and I have never really cared that the drinking age is not lower, unless maybe 18 but for completely different reasons. Your point about the restrictions put on drugs like Xanax and I assume Oxy, and in my opinion Ritalin and Adderall, is exactly correct. I firmly believe that there should be FAR heavier restrictions on things like ritalin and adderall and xanax, I find it disgusting that they are so widely available. And for:
“Methadone is a drug that controls withdrawl symptoms, and therefore has a valid medical use. See my response above for that one. Does heroin have a valid medical use? Do the medical uses of cocaine outweigh the risks that come with it?”
THANK YOU. Methadone is a valid drug because it has a great medical use, although addiction can be strong, but so can addiction to many drugs that have great medical uses.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:14 am
#56: – “making people care more about whether things are illegal or legal takes away the people’s right to make the laws themselves in the democracy we live in and pushes them into fear and blind obedience.” – The second part of this quote is very disturbing, but I suggest the first part – the bit about the people making their own laws – is a bit naive. Global politics works ‘for the peoples own good’, rather than, say, ‘what the people want/demand’. In this country, the UK, we have demanded stoppages of wars, removal of baurocracies, decriminalisation of drugs, but it’s plainly not up to us anymore – and that is the disturbing part. Perhaps the tide will change.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Callie-
“Are you saying that since some of those people abuse prescription drugs that therefore noone should have access to them.”
Nope. There is a valid medical reason for those drugs.
Actually the very fact that they are abusing them means that there is no medical reason for them. When I broke my arm very seriously, I had a prescription for pain killers. After the first prescription was finished I went back to the doctor who asked me whether I thought I needed another one, I said no because I didn’t feel like the pain was that bad and I could deal with it. That meant that for me it was not medically valid. Granted I could have lied and said I was in immense pain but that would not have made it any more medically valid.
“Methadone is a drug that controls withdrawl symptoms, and therefore has a valid medical use. See my response above for that one. Does heroin have a valid medical use? Do the medical uses of cocaine outweigh the risks that come with it?”
Actually both do. Several commentars upthread have made that point. Marijuana has several medical benefits such has helping relieve eye pressure in glaucoma patients, and helping out Chemotherapy patients deal with the effects of radiation.
“I’m sorry, but I think anyone selling drugs deserves to be put away- especially those that use children as runners and sell to kids. That IS a hardened criminal to me- anyone with complete disregard for the lives of others is. Maybe that’s just me”
Personally I think that is just you. I think that argument makes sense if you are simply talking about dealers, but it seems like the discussion was more along the lines of drug abusers and I think there is a big difference between someone who uses (or abuses) drugs and some one who deals.
“There would be no valid reason to stop, and I would probably think ip some sort of excuse that because the government lets this go on, it can’t really be that bad for me. Viva la heroin.”
So does that mean that the government supports drinking alcohol or smoking cigerettes. I don’t think that is true at all. The government is very active in trying to get people to quit smoking, the difference is that they are not making it illegal, rather they are encouraging treatment for people who want to quit.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:22 am
#144: I understand that, I’m not being naive. Unfortunately, much like your country, much of the U.S. has argued against our war and many other things and it is out of our control. The head honchos take that power. If it were up to the people, I think marijuana might be legalized now. But that is flat out not the principle that our country was founded on. While this is something that we give up being that the U.S. is a democratic republic rather than a democracy and we elect these people to office, the people we elect in principle should be working for our collective interests and not just what they think; and some actually do, but they are few and far between. I hope things will change but I’m sure they never will, for greed and selfishness in humans will continue forever; but ideally and in principle that is what is supposed to happen and it is what our country is about. That it isn’t is the product of bad representation and leadership, which is indeed sad.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:23 am
142. SheSaid – Thats an amazing story. I here people who have been on much of the wider known abuses such as opiates, Coke, heroin and of course alcohol and cigarettes. Though the one I heard was the hardest to quit was METH. I can imagine that a person lets say who is caught up with something like that and then arrested for possession and then has to stop cold because he/she is in police custody and can’t use a clinic or hospital must go through some intense agaonizing withdrawl issues.
You know the police would not be at all interested in getting you some help. Im just very amazed of your success
April 16th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Man, I used to think that people who supported hemp farms were mostly potheads. Now I think that we need more hemp.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:29 am
147. cybogen
I did have some pretty intense detox symptoms/withdrawls, but I didnt know where to go to get help, so I just sat it out. I did do a little bit of coke to help myself not crash, but I pretty much just sat in my car for days. Thats why I’m so prolegalization. Had there been somewhere I knew to go, I would have had a much easier time of it!
April 16th, 2009 at 11:35 am
148. Hyper Dillwacker -
LULZLULZLULZLULZLULZ*sputter* LULZLULZLULZLULZ*wheeze*LULZLULZLULZLULZ *witness protection gone wrong* LULZLULZLULZLULZLULZLULZLULZ *buttcock* LULZLULZLULZLULZ *Dr Chud* LULZLULZLULZ *dies*
Pardon me but what the hell are you talking about mate?
April 16th, 2009 at 11:37 am
I don’t really feel like copy pasting and making this post even longer, so feel free to re-read your own and my own words.
you say after the first scrip was finished you went back for follow up and didn’t take the second dose he offered. Does that mean you took the first ones? For pain? And even if you are a huge manly man and didn’t use your first presciptio, pain means different things to different people. I whistled and joked while my foot was being tattooed, and my friend cried. To say they aren’t valid because you didn’t need them is beyond silly and bordering on stupid.
As to the second part, did I mention marijuana? I’m well aware of the medical uses for pot. Could you answer my questions? I WILL copy/paste those, in case you missed them the first time. Does heroin have a valid medical use? Do the medical uses of cocaine outweigh the risks that come with it?”
Fourth and finally, I don’t think the government gives two about LEGAL drinking or smoking unless it becomes a huge issue- DUI’s and the like. Honestly, I hope they have more to worry about than me, a 23 year old girl, enjoying a beer and a cig. Furthermore, most governmental anti-smoking campaigns are designed to keep kids from starting, not to help people quit. The most common surgeon general warning on cigarrette boxes is “Smoking By Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, And Low Birth Weight” Use your common sense skils to figure out why they use that one more than any other, and look at the wording carefully
April 16th, 2009 at 11:38 am
*Third and finally
April 16th, 2009 at 11:40 am
97: “I want hemp shampoo, they sell it everywhere now and suppose to be very healthy for your hair.” – hemp contains oils which enrich and complement the natural oils in hair. Hair is a plant. Did you know that? As a plant, any oil based shampoos will work great to nurish it. Neem is also good example. Unfortunately, most shampoos available are chemical based – which rob hair of it’s oil; only for hair to frantically over-produce oil to try to restore itself – hence the greasy look after a few days. Some experts believe that hair is naturally self regulating (like hair on every single other animal), and that the best way to maintain it is to let it oil itself, and to not use shampoo. Me? I use one extracted from Ginko Biloba oil.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:56 am
#104: “If ever there was a generation of leadership open to legalizing pot, it is Generation Jones.” – just to add to your statistics, I’m Gen X – I have used pot, my ex-wife is Gen. Y – she’s tried it but prefers alcohol, and my son is Gen Z – and he’s too young to have tried anything. I sippose those born during or before the 60’s, as you may suggest, were around when the world embraced pot as a recreational drug; and see it as quite harmless. Those game people will have been alive during the 1970’s, when Jimmy Carter made all 50 states pot legal. They saw no direct consequences as a result of this action. Then, in the 1980s, drugs made way for the booze culture, and as you say, perhaps the agenda has simply moved from one to another.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
@ SheSaid:
Wow… I am amazed at your recovery story… Congrats!
*****
mattofutexas:
So you would need a “I´m on the verge of death” kinda of excuse to get a prescription. OK, valid point…
However, I´m thinking of all the people who currently “work” in the drug business. I´m guessing distribution would still be illegal, right? I´m just not seeing all the vendors on the street saying “OK, well I´m no longer getting any drug money so I might as well get a job!” Wouldnt they still be out there trying to sell? Maybe even cutting with even more chemicals so they get a better profit?
April 16th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
#163: not all of the street vendors would say that, but I bet it would have a positive impact on it rather than keeping it how it is. the drug problem is about improving it rather than eliminating it; no measures can ever be taken to eliminate drug trafficking and drug abuse. distribution would still be illegal of course and I’m sure they would still be trying to sell, but their access to the drugs would be much harder. if they’re cutting with more chemicals then it will be known and I’m certain people who want their drugs would find ways around it rather than buying bullshit, I can tell you that as someone who buys drugs lol. if someone doesn’t have the dankest shit, I’m not buying their bud. it’s that easy. but legitimately, as far as drug dealers trying to sell and getting jobs, it could only help; I don’t see how it would do otherwise, as it is far easier to get drugs on the street than it is to have to go through a dying person who needs them to get them. the real corruption would come from the docs and their friends, but that continues today, especially from doctor to doctor, and they’re certainly not the ones gonna be dealing out on the streets; they already make enough money. I’m about to go to med school, I know a lot about the business aspect and inside stuff as well as medical knowledge.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
marksucscock – wow, interesting name, says a lot about you. you are making yourself look a fool by singling one person out and trying to make them feel bad. you are dumb enough to think you are making anyone feel bad on the internet and the only reason i bother with you at all is because a bully online is a bully in life. i despise bullies.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
plus I don’t know how many drug dealers you know, but most drug dealers I know work jobs anyways. they just deal on the side for more money.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
156. Lifeschool
“Hair is a plant. Did you know that? As a plant, any oil based shampoos will work great to nurish it.”
IT’S YOUR LIST AND ALL, but explain how hair is a plant please.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
also, I’m not inferring from my post that marijuana is cut with other drugs, I’m just talking about being sold bullshit. druggies know their shit and in the words of the great Jay-Z (yes, I’m quoting Jay-Z on a debate about drug legalization) “you can’t date ski-O’s and wife it; and you can’t sell me bullshit, we know the prices.”
April 16th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
1) People who have never smoked weed/done drugs will most likely NEVER understand drugs. I’ve pretty much given up trying, they’re too stuck in their ways… so all ya’ll might as well stop.
2) Weed does an awesome job of getting rid of my back pain, and really really helps with migraines.
3) After I stopped smoking weed (job-hunting!) I started drinking instead. WOW, that sure is great substitute! (massive sarcasm) Hangovers/inability to function with alcohol is WAY more dangerous/horrible than anything to do with weed.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
i thought plants were plants because they grew from the ground?
April 16th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Agree with the drug dealer comment. Most dealers here are fellow college students that are going to be doctors, engineers, scientists, and teachers in the next few years. It’s a harmless way to get a few bucks and also be a GREAT neighbor/roommate!
April 16th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
gaverill…you could try just being sober. No weed and responsible amounts of alcohol? It’s crazy but it just might work. I do a happy hour every week and function just fine the next day. Also, my brother in law’s roommate dealt pot out of their apartment in college. He didn’t smoke it, but he was arrested along with the roommate when the cops found out and had to hire a lawyer and go to court for his roommates indiscretions. GREAT roommate!!! And before you jump all over me, yes I’ve smoked weed, popped pills, and tried coke. It’s not my thing, and as you can tell I’m fairly vocally anti-drug. There’s just too much on the the line.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
haha…on the line. I made a funny.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
165 6tb: marksucscock – wow, interesting name, says a lot about you.
My interpretation was that he shares the same name with another poster also named “Mark”, so he wanted a sure-fire way to differentiate himself so that we wouldn’t confuse the two. In doing so, he might’ve shared a bit too much about himself, but hey whatever works.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
119: Mark – “but what percentage of addicts do you think actually manage to get clean, 5? 10?” I think this figure depends on what help is available and what part of the world you reside in. As SheSaid says, it is sometimes the case that a user must remove themselves from the temptation in order to fight it. There are three senarios: 1) A user is addicted for life, and dies as a result. 2) A user goes on-and-off the drugs for life or 3) a user gets the insight and stays clean. What percentage stay clean? – a very high percentage. Perhaps 65% (which includes cigarette smokers, alcoholics, pot smokers, and hard drug users).
Whatever can be started, can be stopped, and whatever is begun, can come to an end.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
174. Maggot: hahaha! That was great!
I hate when people post stupid stuff like that. It leaves a “not so clean” feeling. yuck!
April 16th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
maggot – what ever makes him happy, doesnt bother me, i hadnt realised he was also called mark. it jus riles me when people single out a person.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
gaverill (171):
I was all set on replying to another post when yours made me choke on my lunch. “HARMLESS WAY TO GET A FEW BUCKS”?? You were kidding, right?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
callie_ (173):
“haha…on the line. I made a funny.”
Anyway… I agree with your previous post. Why is it people go from “I couldnt get high so I got stark raving drunk instead!”
April 16th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
128: “If some crackhead overdoses and dies on the street, that’s one less crackhead and an improvement on society.” – well, if YOU were that crack user, you may think differently. Perhaps you would want help, but if everyone had the same attitude as you, you would not receive even a basic acknowledgement for a way of life that has developed beyond your desire or control. Being addicted is NOT fun when the drug makes the all decisions. Given a direct choice, I’d say the majority of users don’t want to die.
“Drugs are by and large unnatural, and while I recognize that there are people who need drugs to right an imbalance, anyone who abuses a drug deserves the outcome.” – I’d say most drugs are in fact directly or variations on very natural chemicals and plants (tobacco, alcohol, opium, cannabis, cocaine, mushrooms etc). Look at the ingredients used in chinese medicine..! Pharmasutical drugs; while seen as synthetic; are largely mixtures of natural ingredients. Even most ‘chemicals’ must be extracted from ‘natural’ resources. As to your second point, would you say all those who make a mistake should be punished for it? There are others that lean on the side of – for want of a better word – forgiveness.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
178 lifeschool
Thank you for saying all of that because I wanted to say it, but I wouldn’t have been so nice about it!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Marv In DC (144): “That meant that for me it was not medically valid. Granted I could have lied and said I was in immense pain but that would not have made it any more medically valid.” I must confess that when I need to get painkillers from the doctor, I try to get as much of it as possible – because if I build up a large enough surplus I don’t need to go to a doctor next time I need pain killers
April 16th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
178. Lifeschool
While I´m with you on most of what you said, I think the “Even most ‘chemicals’ must be extracted from ‘natural’ resources” is a specious argument. By that logic, then everything is natural and there is not synthetic/artificial!
I´ll agree with tobacco, alcohol, opium, cannabis and mushrooms as you can ingest these “au naturel” and still get an effect. HOWEVER, coca leaves have to be mixed with a whole bunch of chemicals before they become cocaine. I live in Peru and coca leaves are very common as a substitute for tea and believe me, they have no mind altering effects.
Oh, and by the way, great list! I was surprised by a few of these! I say we all switch to hemp paper!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
141: SheSaid: “The first time I tried meth, I was in love.” – you comment may insight a few to give it a try; thinking ‘ooh I’m not stupid, I won’t get addicted’. Let me tell you something, drugs which make you feel as wonderful as NEVER before cannot be ‘tried’ once and not have the user desparate to try it again. If the supply is there, even the wisest begin to crave the next ‘big hit’ – that is never as good as the ‘first hit’, and always leaves you with one thought – MORE! Man! Hard drugs suck. They aren’t cool.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
If people want to smoke weed, fine. It’s not going to do anyone any harm (if it is actually marijuana). My issue with marijuana is the same one (actually, one of several) I have with tobacco- just because you are smoking it doesn’t mean that I want to. Uggh. I hate the second-hand smoke. Which, I guess, leads me to my question: can the smoke from marijuana damage your lungs?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Jfrater
I took huge amounts of grief from my friends who suggested the same thing:)
April 16th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
175. lifeschool
That was by no means me advocating using! If you continue to read my post, it gave a small bit of the personal hell I put myself through because of this drug. I though that I wouldn’t get addicted. I mean honestly, I don’t think anyone wakes up and thinks, “I’ll get hooked on a drug that is going to ruin my life today!” Of course no one plans it. I don’t understand how you got out of my comment that I thought it was ok for people to start doing drugs. But if people want to try, I have no place to tell them no. It is their body not mine, and I have no room to tell them what can or can’t go into their body.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
#147: “Man, I used to think that people who supported hemp farms were mostly potheads. Now I think that we need more hemp.” – yes, getting back to the point of the list, hemp is a valuable resource which could, amounst other things, save the trees. We use trees for tons upon tons of newspaper, books, linen, furnature – you name it. Heck, you can build houses out of hemp – and have the SAME crop come up year after year after year after… etc.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
178: SheSaid: – Yes, I do fully understand your position – and it was (and still is) brave of you to talk about it. Reading post 175 again I see I was mainly talking in the third person; to perhaps save anybody tempted by the line above to try it, and from finding out and hard way. It was kind of a public disclaimer in leu of one by anybody else. I’m sure, deep down, you would not advocate meth – even though you clearly have an openness towards what fellow humanity does to itself.
No offence mean’t.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Callie
it has nothing to do with whether or not I am a manly man or not. Yes, I used the first prescription to cover the pain. That was a medically valid reason for me to take the painkillers. That medically valid reason became invalid when I and the doctor realized that I didn’t need a second prescription. If someone was still in immense pain after the first or second or third prescription then there would be a medically valid reason for continuing the prescriptions.
Medical uses for heroin (From Wikipedia)
Medical use
Under the name diamorphine, diacetylmorphine is prescribed as a strong analgesic in the United Kingdom, where it is given via subcutaneous, intramuscular or intravenous route. Its use includes treatment for acute pain, such as in severe trauma, myocardial infarction, and following surgery, and chronic pain, including in cancer. In other countries it is more common to use morphine or other strong opioids in these situations.
In 2005, there was a shortage of diamorphine in the UK, due to a problem at the main UK manufacturers.[12] Due to this, many hospitals changed to using morphine instead of diamorphine. Although there is no longer a problem with its manufacture, many hospitals have continued to use morphine.
Diamorphine is continued to be widely used in palliative care in the United Kingdom, where it is commonly given by the subcutaneous route, often via a syringe driver, if patients could not easily swallow oral morphine solution. The advantage of diamorphine over morphine is that diamorphine is more soluble and smaller volumes of diamorphine are needed for the same analgesic effect. Both of these factors are advantageous if giving high doses of opioids via the subcutaneous route, which is often necessary in palliative care.
The medical use of diamorphine (in common with other strong opioids such as morphine, fentanyl and oxycodone) is controlled in the United Kingdom by the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. In the UK, it is a class A controlled drug. Registers of its use are required to be kept in hospitals.
Here is the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin
Medical Uses of Cocaine (once again from wikipedia)
Cocaine was historically useful as a topical anesthetic in eye and nasal surgery, although it is now predominantly used for nasal and lacrimal duct surgery. The major disadvantages of this use are cocaine’s intense vasoconstrictor activity and potential for cardiovascular toxicity. Cocaine has since been largely replaced in Western medicine by synthetic local anaesthetics such as benzocaine, proparacaine, lignocaine/xylocaine/lidocaine, and tetracaine though it remains available for use if specified. If vasoconstriction is desired for a procedure (as it reduces bleeding), the anesthetic is combined with a vasoconstrictor such as phenylephrine or epinephrine. In Australia it is currently prescribed for use as a local anesthetic for conditions such as mouth and lung ulcers. Some ENT specialists occasionally use cocaine within the practice when performing procedures such as nasal cauterization. In this scenario dissolved cocaine is soaked into a ball of cotton wool, which is placed in the nostril for the 10–15 minutes immediately prior to the procedure, thus performing the dual role of both numbing the area to be cauterized and also vasoconstriction. Even when used this way, some of the used cocaine may be absorbed through oral or nasal mucosa and give systemic effects.
In 2005, researchers from Kyoto University Hospital proposed the use of cocaine in conjunction with phenylephrine administered in the form of an eye drop as a diagnostic test for Parkinson’s disease.[68]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine
April 16th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
180. lifeschool
I may not have been completely clear in 141. A thought that I take for granted, that probably only other past adicts take for granted as well, is that the love I felt for the drug was my downfall. I loved it, and it almost killed me. Part of my reason for my openness towards other peoples choices is, I know for a fact, that I would be nothing like who I am today if I hadn’t been through what I have. And I kinda like who I am now
April 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
148: SheSaid (sorry, I’m still trying to read all these comments)- “Had there been somewhere I knew to go, I would have had a much easier time of [coming off] it!”. – Well said, I think that is the crux of what JFrater mused back at the start of this topic. The right place, the right advice, the right control without the stigma. I believe that if there was a clinic (notice I didn’t say ‘rehab’ – as that’s a stigma in itself) on the corner of every block, the number of serious drug users would take a dive-bomb. People wouldn’t be affraid to ‘come out’ anymore. :¬/
April 16th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
176: no, marijuana second-hand smoke does nothing. I have heard multiple times that if inhaled for about a couple of seconds the THC content in marijuana smoke is nil (not that marijuana smoke does much to damage your lungs anyway – I am a frequent runner and soccer player and recently stopped due to illness then started again and can attest to that, multiple times). From personal experience, I think there was only one time I ever saw someone get high off second-hand smoke, and that was from being inside a car that was being hotboxed by my friends and me, and even then it is certainly debatable. But for all intensive purposes, and you might wanna google it, I don’t think there are any effects from marijuana second-hand smoke really.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
158; TEX – [is hair a plant?] Wow, good catch. I’ve searched for anybody who has actually examined the plant nature of hair and published online – but have so far come up with nothing on the net. Hair stems from a ‘hair root’, and gets its water from the local blood supply as well as ‘food’, and in a limited way also from sunlight.
The following picture shows a cross section of a hair:
http://thuledingles.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/hair.png
Now compare that with a cross section of a plant by heading to an image browser site (such a google images) and enter something like ‘plant stem cross-section’ as a search criteria. There you will find the answer.
The only difference between hair and an independant plant is that the host is also the genetic host – we propogate our own hair – it doesn’t propogate itself.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
15. Signe:
I don’t see any reason why we can’t do that here. People are already growing it illegally for pot; making the industrial plant legal isn’t going to stop them, or make more people do it.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
172, & 174 – you both quote me as 178 – but now the comment you are refering to is 171… I too have posted to number which have changed. What’s going on? I can only assume the mods have been at work and removed entries, which may have messed references up a bit… any thoughts?
April 16th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Am I the only person confused about #5? Unless there’s a War of 1812 I don’t know about, the War of 1812 was between America and Canada because the Americans tried to invade….
April 16th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Lifeschool (at what is now 186 but may change!
):
I´m guessing the mods did go back and clean up some junk left in the comments by at least one troll. I think it would be better that the content be deleted and replaced with something like “COMMENT EDITED FOR TROLL-LIKE CONDUCT” then the numbers wouldnt get all f-ed up.
Just my two cents!
April 16th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
HEMP, not pot, is the subject here, right?
The problem is some people are not intelligent enough to differentiate between the two, and that is precisely what the people who wanted it to go away were counting on.
W.R. Hearst and E.I. du Pont were two of the biggest proponents for the criminalization, Hearst because he wanted all newspapers to be printed on less efficient paper because he owned buttloads of lumber, and du Pont because he was in the business of selling less efficient synthetic fibers. Soon after, propaganda telling of impressionable youth smoking reefer and going on murdering and raping sprees. Dumb people bit, hook, line and sinker.
P.S. The past three presidents smoked pot, but only one was man enough to admit it.
April 16th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
174: GTT – ” “Even most ‘chemicals’ must be extracted from ‘natural’ resources” is a specious argument. By that logic, then everything is natural and there is not synthetic/artificial!” – yes, that was a bit dumb of me. Sorry. You could argue that chemicals are natural, but the point I really wanted to me, you understand, was that most common drugs come from natural sources. Heck, I’m sure man has been a’lickin’ those toads forever, chewin’ on leaves, a’rootin’ for those little iddy-biddy roots and grubs. And of course there is Ayahuaska, Chacruna, and DMT, Peyote, Saliva Divinorum, blue lotus flower… (errr: stop, stop that now!)
April 16th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
176: “can the smoke from marijuana damage your lungs?” – yes, anything going into the lungs as smoke could damage them. I’m not talking about vapours mind-you; like some aromatherapy oil or some trace chemical vapours (unless you purposely breath them in, and then it’s usually the mind that gets pickled before the lungs). Anyway, er, yes. You could damage your lungs by breathin in wood smoke; and I know; I have a wood burning stove. Smoke, by it’s very nature, is a semi-visible cluster of materials – flecks of carbon, residues, toxins. At the same time, it is important to realise that it can take a helluva long time for these things to build up and turn sour. Some elements are actually coughed back out of the lungs – but not everything.
April 16th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
181: SheSaid “I would be nothing like who I am today if I hadn’t been through what I have. And I kinda like who I am now” – that is also my philosophy
– although I wouldn’t wish what I went through on the Devil himself! Great talking with you back and forth. Welcome to the LV!
[cheers and applause]
187: Courtney “the War of 1812 was between America and Canada” – ahhh
, there may have been a war in American at that time, but the famous 1812 overture – written by Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky – was about the Napolionic wars of that period. Makes fascinating reading… 
–
And that’s it. Thanks for a great afternoon everybody. Special thanks to Segue for reading my mind (lets keep at ‘em eh?) and all who have contributed to the (off topic) debates the banter therein. See you next time – byee!
April 16th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
The problem with illicit substances is the illegality of those substances. The black market would no longer exist if drugs were legalized. All public money used to fight the “war” on drugs should stay public so the government can help people stay off drugs. Arresting a small time user and sending them to jail where they normally come out worse than before is insane. If a person engages in an act that does not infringe on the liberty of another person then that should be the decision of said person. One of the biggest roadblocks to legalization is the petrochemical companies and the prescription drug lobby. The war on drugs has failed and as long as we keep fighting this war we will reap the same results. Look at methadone clinics in this country, it’s the same model to follow. They recognize that there is a safe alternative to opiate addiction which is overseen by doctors to help them kick their habit. Legalize drugs NOW!
April 16th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
193: Lifeschool; thank you for clearing that up. I do know the 1812 Overture, it’s one of my favourite classical songs
April 16th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
All unbiased studies have shown that drug prohibition does nothing to stem the use of drugs. Alcohol is legal, but not everyone is an alcoholic. Marijuana is illegal, but a full 42%(an average of multiple studies) of American high school students have at least tried marijuana(and I think that a lot of kids are lying-my school was like, 85%). Cigarettes are legal, and still a large portion of the population smoke them. Thing is though, over the last 40 years the health effects of cigarettes have deterred many from doing them or made people quit, I believe the same would be true for cocaine(crack), heroine(opium), and amphetamines. You would still have users, for sure, but they would still be the MASSIVE minority in comparison to marijuana and alcohol(even though alcohol is still the deadliest drug).
April 16th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
If this list were one thing long, and more efficient:
1.Everything used to be made from hemp until people kept smoking it.
Fin
April 16th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
190.
“P.S. The past three presidents smoked pot, but only one was man enough to admit it.”
Haha yes! An intelligent president that isn’t afraid to admit he was an average doper. What a contrast from an average dope for a president that was afraid to appear unintelligent
Also about the debate concerning drugs / legality – While ethics does play a large role in this debate, I believe it all comes down to the individual and their exertion of mind over matter. Or in this case, mind over substance. Those who say ‘let crackheads OD, its one less bum off our streets’ neglect the fact that some of these crackies would benefit from help if it readily presented itself and turn around to become normal contributing members of society. That said if help was offered to all some may not take it, some may utilize it briefly and then fall back right into the same place they were before or worse.
Help like rehab programs and the direction Portugal is taking can be offered and many would not fail to benefit from it. However it all comes down to the willingness of the individual to help themselves, regardless of how much external support is given.
Also for those who think Prohibition works – take a time trip to the 1920’s and visit one of the thousands of speakeasies. Or just go with your teenager sibling to the next house party – they’re not exactly straight edge. For that matter, just go call the cool guy your college friend knows. While the legalization of drugs is debatable, the fact that Prohibition doesn’t work is well proven.
April 16th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
It’s too bad, and undoubtedly one of the reasons for hemp’s continuing illegal status, that all anyone here can discuss is the “high” you can get from the THC.
Hemp is a valuable product. If only people would look at all of the fine uses hemp could be put to, disregarding the one not so useful one, we could get hemp legalized easily.
April 16th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
This may well have been mentioned, but doctors get bonuses for handing out drugs. I could see crack addicts getting their fill from corrupt doctors.
However, I’m all for hemp legalisation!
April 16th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
How is marijuana any more dangerous than cigarettes? When you smoke a joint, do you also smoke benzene, formaldehyde, ammonia, acetone, tar, carbon monoxide, arsenic, etc. that exist in cigarettes? You can’t overdose on the THC, and hemp has little to none, so I fail to see the logic in making it illegal.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
JFrater,is there any way I can share this and other cool lists on facebook? Apart from copy-pasting the link of course……
April 16th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
hey,it all depends how you use or misuse a product..in this case hemp can be beneficial or injurious…depends how one uses it
April 16th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
I’m wearing a hemp bracelet that I made.
sweet list. my dad freaked a little when I told him I bought a spool of hemp and he asked what it was, so I said it’s from the cannabis plant LOL. now I can show him this.
April 17th, 2009 at 12:23 am
#12 states that it takes 1 acre of hemp to produce the same amount of paper as 4.1 acres of trees, but I think you should also include the fact that the trees take decades to regrow whereas that 1 acre of hemp can be reproduced within 120 days of harvesting.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:57 am
While I apprieciate a copy/paste from wikipedia just as much as the next guy, I like to use real sources. See the (SOURCED) article below
Morphine provides longer-lasting, more consistent pain relief than does heroin. [Robert L. McCarthy and Michael Montagne, "The argument for therapeutic use of heroin in pain management," American Journal of Hospital Pharmacists, May 1993].
If morphine does not work for a given patient, you should not use- heroin, which is chemically very similar to morphine, but instead should use a different opioid such as methadone. [Arthur G. Lipman, "The argument against therapeutic use of heroin in pain management," American Journal of Hospital Pharmacists, May 1993].
The British doctors who initially advocated the therapeutic use of heroin long ago reversed their position. [Lipman, citation above].
The American Pharmaceutical Association admits that there are problems in pain management, but that they are due to the tendency of doctors to fail to prescribe sufficient dosages of presently available opioids, not because of the unavailability of heroin. [Lipman, citation above].
Allowing the therapeutic use of heroin increases the risk of diversion-i.e. that patients will sell their drugs on the black market rather than using it themselves. (Lipman, citation above],
Allowing pharmacies to stock heroin likely would ‘increase the risk of robbery, especially when one considers that 50% of all pharmacy burglaries are committed to steal controlled substances. [Lipman, citation above].
Prescribed heroin is illegal in the US and Canada. Do you REALLY think the “benefits” of prescribing this dangerous, addictive drug elsewhere outweigh the risks? If you honestly think that, I’m done arguing with you because you’re so backward thinking, and have such disregard for people as a whole that I no longer wish to speak to you.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:11 am
205. callie_ : I think you need to calm down, you have great points but a cool head will help you convince others, which is beneficial to me as I share your POV
April 17th, 2009 at 7:51 am
Lifeschool: First and foremost, I recognize the danger of drugs and avoid them. It’s not worth the potential addiction or death for a temporary high. To answer you, though, if I were that crackhead I would have no self respect and would reap what I had sown. There are programs that can help people, if they don’t utilize them, that’s their choice. We are responsible for what we do and how we live.
By natural, I did mean without having to be synthesized or manufactured.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:22 am
wow again. Here’s my 2cents.
Hemp is not pot… grow it.
Pot is just a weed…. smoke it.
Put valium/xanax and good pain meds behind the pharmacy counter in small doses, make folks sign/ID for them.
I don’t know where these dr’s are that give out “the good drugs” all willy nilly. I know of several people, including myself, that really need some meds to make life “easier”… but can’t get what we need. My OM has severe pain from arthritis, pelvic breaks, back and knee pain… he takes massive quantities of Ibuprofen, but can’t find a doctor to set him up with a perscription. If he could smoke pot, I think he would be more comfy. I know I would. lol
April 17th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
sorry Mark..few things in life rile me up like this- animal rights (esp. pit bull rights), children’s rights, eating disorders, and drug addiction. Those are the four I can really lose my head over. I’ll try to be more controlled- I know flying off at the handle doesn’t win arguements, but its hard sometimes
April 17th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
ok so there are way too many comments to go through, so i may be repeating something.
I read a book not too long ago, or something else, i forget exactly what, that prior to the 70s or 80s heroin was legal and given by prescription in the UK and there were something like 1400 addicts. the US pressured the government to outlaw it and now it’s a huge problem as the number of addicts have grown significantly.
heroin was created at bayer to attempt to make a less addicting substitute morphine. swing and a miss.
i just got finished reading “more harm than good” that basically says most of our newest drugs and treatments and tests do more harm than good and are not cost-effective. doctors may swear to do no harm, but they most certainly do.
i think a good portion of illegal drugs should be legalized and taxed to hell.
people want to get high, because reality sucks. let people do what they want.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
211. john m:…i think a good portion of illegal drugs should be legalized and taxed to hell.
****
The trouble, john m, is that you don’t think at all!
Make the drugs all legal and tax the hell out of them? That’s your answer? So how is Mrs. Smith, 75 and in constant agony from cancer, going to afford her Morphine?
How will Jimmy Jones, 8 and crippled with Juvinale Arthritis, be able to afford the medications that keep him from screaming in pain with every step? How would I be able to afford the two pain medications that keep my life livable, keep my pain level down to a point that I can actually function?
But, eh! forget that! Tax the shit through the roof so the “addicts” won’t be able to afford it.
You forget that there are millions of users who *NEED* the stuff medically.
Go have another beer and a ciggie and try to put your sad excuse for a brain in first gear.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
210. callie_ : I know the feeling all too well. Although I don’t think I share your choice of “make my head asplode” topics I do have a couple of others that bug me – and I know mine are a lot more trivial too
April 17th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
john m, i hear what you’re saying.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
seems it would make alot of sense to use hemp for paper and this “10x stronger than steel” plastic. maybe we should just stop the bans on marijuana just for the hemp.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
segue- you are hardcore. go get em.
April 18th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
211 john m: i think a good portion of illegal drugs should be legalized and taxed to hell.
Here we go again. If legal means of acquisition are too expensive for the majority of consumers, illegal trade will continue to flourish. You’re not solving anything, and as segue says, it would actually more hurt the people that need medication for legitimate reasons rather than the “recreational” users.
April 18th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
You should have waited until monday to publish this. Here in America at least, April 20th is pot day because it’s 4/20.
April 18th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Facinating facts. A real history lesson I will pass on to my kids and grandkids.
April 19th, 2009 at 11:50 am
No offense but the anti-drug people here are just spouting blind idioms that someone pushed into their heads. The BS taught by the ‘War on Drugs’ is mindless propaganda for the weak minded to spew.
I’ve been studying this topic for several years and would love to discuss it with any of you trolls, if you were actually willing to be rational about it, but I’m pretty sure heated slogans is the most you have. Here wouldnt be a good place but I wonder if there are forums?
Also, it’s embarassingly evident which ones come from the US; the signature incorrect statistics and ‘facts’ you have been fed are a warning sign for anyone who studies the issue globally and has an actual grasp on the issue.
Sadly, the issue is very convoluted and having a productive and meaningful discussion of the topic, maybe in forums, might enlighten some people- like as to how the War on Drugs has very little to do with drugs and a lot to do with the privatization of prison complexes, or how in more socialized nationstates, the ones that are consistently ranked higher on ‘best places to live’ for education, health care and social setting than the US is, drug laws are well thought out, more relaxed and better functioning. And they have less drug related crime, less incidences of HIV transfer through needles.
Or how in anywhere else, any person who would even suggest that Marijuana could be viewed as remotely connected to crack or heroin as similiar in anyway, is just laughed at as wholly ignorant and needs to learn more and talk less. Dismissed as operating at the level of an elementary school knowledge.
But, you can never change the mind of the true believer, even when they don’t know what they are talking about. Fight the good fight! Drugs want to rape you! Rape you in the face!!!
April 19th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Wow! Your not a conspiracy theorist are you ? Rant on.
April 19th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Dangerous drugs. They are dangerous because of the way they are made and delivered to the body. This would cease if we ended Drug Prohibition. How many people do you know that died since 1933 from bathtub gin. Well many did from 1919 to 1933 when went through the great experiment. What happens on the street with drugs today would not resemble what it would be like if these drug were put under some form of control like tobacco and alcohol. Addiction is a strange malady and Drug prohibition has caused more harm than good to that age old malady of addiction from which I suffer.
April 19th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
222. weirdharold : “…How many people do you know that died since 1933 from bathtub gin…”
That’s a flawed question… Since prohibition ended there has been no bathtub gin – which is akin to the “dirty” drugs in the present moment. The real question is, how many people have died due to alcohol? Because that is the equvilant of the “clean”, legal drugs you advocate for. Trust me, it might be sad that you’ve been (still are?) addicted, but legalizing drugs isn’t going to prevent or even decrease that. The only way that addiction rates are going to go with legalization of drugs is up, way, way up.
April 19th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
I have never use a controlled substance without a prescription. I have not used alcohol since 1975. Your thoughts on addiction are just hogwash put out by the Drug War industrial complex. When the Harrison Act was put into place in 1914 history says there was 1 in 400 adults addicted on opiates and/or coco derivatives. Run the clock forward 95 years and see what you have now. Check with the CATO institute and some of their finding and I think you will see you have no basics for your above statements. 25 to 30 million addicts in USA They are gonna go up way way up. I think not.
April 19th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
224. weirdharold : What are you twittering on about? I’m talking about increasing the rate of addiction among the general population by legalizing street drugs. Do you really think that won’t happen? Just look at alcohol, like you said.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:58 am
Mark, from reading your comments it seems to me that you argue your point without appearing to look at the evidence put forth by the users’ you comment against. There have been multiple pieces of evidence posted that show with statistics that the drug addiction rate goes down when you legalize or decriminalize them, i.e. Portugal’s decriminalization or the evidence weirdharold just put forth of 1/400 adults addicted to opiates (when they were legal) vs. now. You can keep being condescending in your posts and say things like “what are you twittering on about”, but it doesn’t help your argument win. I have yet to see evidence from you, but yet lots of evidence has been posted against you.
April 20th, 2009 at 4:46 am
226. mattofutexas : Good point, I would get cracking on some, but atm working on some Physics – shouldn’t even be on LV but I thought you would like a reply – so I can’t right now. All I’m saying is that I’m sure that since alcohol became re-legalized, the rate of alcoholism increased. Correct me if that assumption is faulty, but if it’s not, wouldn’t legalizing drugs only make addiction more common. Fair enough young people may not try it because it isn’t illegal anymore so the “dare” factor is gone, but I’m sure party drugs would account for a large amount of usage by young people – at least half of my friends drink, and I’m only 16. YES, of course the drugs will be pure and not cut with anything “too nasty”, but the rate of addiction should logically only increase, which is what I was arguing.
April 20th, 2009 at 8:08 am
You cannot start addiction with drugs. Something else must be present.(in the brain). If that was not true all that use would be addicted.
BTW Bathtub gin does not compete with Jack Daniels or Jim Beam very well. That is why it is not produced any more. The same would go for crack, crank, horse & the list goes on.
April 20th, 2009 at 8:27 am
you cannot start a fire with gasoline alone, some other factor must be present.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:36 am
And why isn’t it legal yet?!
April 20th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
its still illegal because companies are making money off it being illegal.i would change all the percription pills people take for every issue…no side effects..it would be much better than drugs made in labs that cause every side effect in the book…and than months later a lawyer says “do you suffer from ailments due to desired perscription) ..the same reason its was made illegal in the 1st place…some greedy a-holes could get rich…look up dupont, hearst, timber and paper industry..etc thats why i was really happy to see the family guy from yesterday bring up these facts!!!!! times are changing lets make it happen!!! take care…glad to see a nice blog
April 20th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
ummmmm…did you just get all the facts for this list from this site http://www.illuminati-news.com/marijuana-conspiracy.htm ?
April 20th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
231: Don Buffalo – I had to chuckle at this post – not because of what you thought – but because of what it implies. Imagine.., a guy goes to the doctors and says “I have a backache”, so the doc says “take these”. The next day, the same guy goes back to the doctors – “Now I get headackes because of those pills”, the docs says “ok, take these”. The next day the same guy goes back and says “Now I get severe cramps in my stomach from taking those pills”, the doc smiles and says “ok, so take these as well”. After a week of this; back and forth, more pills; the guy finally ignores the doc and goes to an osteopath, gets has back-side fixed and goes back to the docs. “Hey, now my back is fine, I don’t need to take all these pills anymore!” The docs says “No, but don’t you have another complaint?” The guy says “Yeah, I can’t sleep”, the doc says “Here, take these.”…
April 20th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
232: No, I didn’t. These are common facts, and have been banded about in this form for years. Nobody knows where they actually originated.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Hemp isn’t the marijuana that you smoke.
That hemp really has nothing to do with Marijuana at all.
Hemp does nothing to you if smoked… It’d be like smoking a trees leaves.
The War On Drugs is just so ridiculous, it has made us fear the stupidest things for the stupidest reasons.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Kase 235: Drug Prohibition is worse than that: Here is a little something I wrote back in “07:
The marketplace is violent. This violence is created by our law enforcement that has been given powers they should never have. The 500,000 drug dealers we have locked up, creating a private prison industry, are mere addicts sharing the cost of a very expensive product. The high value of these substances are again the result of our prohibition laws. And the story goes on & on.
April 21st, 2009 at 4:43 am
There seems to be a little confusion over the matter so i’ll clarify – Hemp is the male part of the cannabis plant whereas the shizzle you smoke is the female part
April 21st, 2009 at 4:49 am
228. weirdharold : “…BTW Bathtub gin does not compete with Jack Daniels or Jim Beam very well. That is why it is not produced any more…”
Yes, but now what kills alcoholics, “clean”, “nice” alcohol, or bathtub gin? The “nice” stuff, just because it doesn’t have nasty additives does not negate the base effect of ethanol on the human body. Likewise drugs, prescription, clean or otherwise generally have a *bad* effect on the human body. That *is* a generalization – i.e. Pot isn’t going to be overly detrimental to your health – but it is true for the most part.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:51 am
All you say is correct, but what you say is meaningless under these conditions.
A misunderstanding of addiction gives us a misunderstanding of supply and demand economics and how governmental powers can control the use and abuse of a given substance in a free society.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:09 pm
239. weirdharold : I just want to ask respectfully, how do we [society] or myself misunderstand addiction? And I assume by the second part of your statement that you assume that “annyone who wants to get it will”? That may be, but I know people who drink alcohol that wouldn’t bother getting it if it was illegal…
April 21st, 2009 at 2:44 pm
From 240# but I know people who drink alcohol that wouldn’t bother getting it if it was illegal…
History from 1919-1933 proves this behavior was indeed rare!
April 21st, 2009 at 2:48 pm
241. weirdharold : Wow, pull out the prohibition card again… Not *as* many people were drinking in that time period, thus decreasing the chances and the rate of alcoholism, one of those nasty addictions you are so against.
All I’m saying is that addiction to substances are going to increase if you make them cheap, legal and easy to get. Nasty additives will decrease, but addiction won’t, and isn’t that what you personally had a problem with?
April 21st, 2009 at 3:14 pm
240 I just want to ask respectfully, how do we [society] or myself misunderstand addiction?
Addiction is a brain disease.
An alcoholic is a person who has a distorted perspective of the value alcohol has for him/her. This distortion is caused by some unknown disorder. This disorder may have existed before the onset of alcohol use.
this my definition.
I am sure the same for a drug addict. Your and my government’s belief that stopping the addict using stops the brain decease is lunacy. Actually it puts our society at odds with the insane. We forget bad behavior of the addict and others while we put laws in effect to stop the addict from using whether there is bad behavior or not. I cannot understand that smoking pot in private is bad behavior.
April 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Prohibition did not work for alcohol 1919-1933 and it is not working for drugs now.
Google thought for today 4/21/2009
“If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.”
– Bertrand Russell
April 21st, 2009 at 9:02 pm
243. weirdharold : Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the method of beginning addiction to have the drug – or other substance – in question? I’m obviously not talking about alcoholism in particular, I’m talking general meth/coke/heroin addiction. Regardless of all of that, drugs do damage *period*, so why would we want to make it easier for an alcoholic – or other addict – to drink/stone themselves to death?
Fair enough it’s a mental problem, I know that, don’t get me wrong here, I’m not one of those “They could just stop whenever they wanted but they’re too stoopid!” people, but wouldn’t the best way to prevent it be to not let them have it *period*?
“…I cannot understand that smoking pot in private is bad behavior…”
I do *not* agree that marijuana should be illegal and not alcohol. I would be fine with both, but if one is legal, the other should be too IMO. But in saying that… Alcohol in public – even if it is “legal” – isn’t necessarily the *best* idea ever, is it?
244. weirdharold : ROFL! You have no proof to back up that statement. The decrease in the *amount* of people in Portugal taking drugs, that doesn’t help your case much because who do you think they were? The teenagers with no more wow factor? Or the addicts? I’m sorry, but saying it will be better for drug addicts when we legalize them is quite insane IMO, I don’t mean to insult you, I’m just throwing out there what I think.
““If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.”
– Bertrand Russell”
You do know how hypocritical using that against me is, right?
April 21st, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Call me hypocritical if you wish. Go ahead and pursue you drug prohibition laws until there are so many dead bodies on the Mexican boarder you have to step over them to cross. Corrupt ever police officer in the USA. bog down the justice system until you cannot handle anything but drug charges. Fill every prison with non-violent drug offenders and let the Wall St. crooks walk because we are too busy convicting drug offenders. And please do not concern yourself with my addiction, that is my problem. When I need you help I will call.
From your writing I am sure you are so far away from this issue you have no idea what has been going on the past 35 years in the War on Drugs. Keep on writing and you can prove to everybody reading this blog I am correct.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:07 pm
246. weirdharold : Keep using completely emotionally based arguments and you’ll manage to prove to everyone how unreasonable you are… Statistics? Evidence? Something I lacked before and admitted to, and now you’re doing it too. A fine pair we make.
“Oh, look at me, I’m addicted to drugs, how cool am I? I’ve gotta win the argument now.”
Get over it, you say the way I’m talking that *I* must be far away from the issue, either you’re lying, or you’re fucking Superman mate. If you were an addict you wouldn’t have put together so many logical and – almost – rational comments in a row on LV, I don’t think you would’ve even squeezed one out. Taking a toke a day doesn’t make you an addict, even if your over-inflated need for pity and comforting words makes you think that it does.
[sarcasm]
But keep on trying to win an argument based on nothing but left-wing slogans and emotionally charged words, you’ll be fine!
[/sarcasm]
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 am
I have no idea how this information on HEMP, not even marijuanna, was turned into a discussion on legalizing prescription meth.. these facts are not drug facts, hemp is not a drug it is a plant. and “Mark” recent studies in European countries, most notibly Spain, have shown that legalizing drugs, even as serious as herion and meth, and using detox and rehab in the place of jailtime for drug offenses have not only saved the country millions on jailing expenses but has decreased overdoses in the country by 15% and repeat offenders by almost 20%.. part of the appeal to drugs, especially in this country, is the danger of them and knowing that they are doing something that they are not supposed to be using.. they dont call it a drug “culture” for nothing
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
This is simple.
1.legalize hemp
2.use hemp in replacement of trees and cotton for everyday products
3. arrest anyone trying to light paperwork or their clothes on fire
4.lol very hard at the people trying to light their shirts on fire and sniff the fumes
5. lol at life
6.lol at the realization that America is one day going to crash and burn
7. make a graphic novel on how America is going to end
8.watch America end and laugh
9. realize you are now depressed
10.go cry in a corner, emo boy
This is your future.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:39 pm
#249: huh
Matt
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:46 pm
you high.. ahaha??
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:00 pm
That`s wierd wild stuff.
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Hemp has always been another name for plants in the Cannabis family. It is only in recent times that the term has become associated with Cannabis Ruderalis, a hardy rapid growing strain that contains a low percentage of THC which is grown for commercial purposes under licence. Its actually legal to grow in many countries around the world but like Tobacco plants its expensive to get a licence and illegal to grow without one. You cannot get high from smoking Ruderalis but if you have enough it is quite simple to extract the THC in the form of oil to create a usable substance. But hardly worth the effort. Marijuana is the term given to the female buds of the Sativa and Indica strains. which are also Hemp but not used commercially as they are less hardy and smaller therefore only good for the high.
As for other class A drugs they should not be legalised as they are extremely dangerous substances when abused. Possesion and use should be decriminalised, so that these instances become summary offences instead of indictable ones. Addicts who only inflict damage upon themselves then do not get caught up in the criminal system and have a greater chance of rehabilitation. Traffickers still go to jail. You do not make Heroin and Meth cheap and easy to get, as that is simply insanity. Nonetheless there are many recreational users of these substances that don’t get addicted and are able to live comfortable lives and these people should not get criminal records. Its the ones that abuse the drugs that develop the problems and are therefore the ones that need help. Class B and C drugs should be legalised though.
April 23rd, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Drugs, including marijuana, are not the problem, drug prohibition laws are the problem.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 pm
254. weirdharold : Can I ask you then, do you think that strip searches – say, before you get on a flight – are bad and evil because they restrict civil liberty as well?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 pm
And before you say something about me being specious, that is relevant.
Drugs can lead to addiction = bad
Not strip searching people can lead to either more drugs, or blown up plane which also = bad
The question is, how much is the government obligated to help there, and where are they obligated to stop?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Add sugar to a diabetic=bad
Let us prohibit the cultivation, manufacture, transporting, sale and possession of sugar.
April 24th, 2009 at 1:36 am
257. weirdharold : Ok, now that’s specious. We *need* sugar to live, not just some people, everyone. What you said is akin to saying “Well, calcium can kill you, so let’s stop making milk. I mean, who cares about bones and stuff, this stuff is deadly.”. Diabetics are a small sample of the population at risk due to sugar – which they still need, genius, read about diabetes before you even use it as an argument – whereas the people at risk from drug addiction and plane hijackings are practically everyone.
April 24th, 2009 at 4:01 am
255 Mark. Without wanting to get into the whole argument regarding whether drugs should be legalised or not I have to say that while your analogy is not exactly specious neither is it entirely pertinent. By banning drugs, the government is protecting the individual from themself, some might argue that’s not within their remit and impinges upon their civil liberties. Through heightened security measures at airports they are attempting to protect the wider public from individuals who would attempt to kill or injure them – obviously against their will. There is a difference. One could argue that drug related crime also harms people who are essentially innocent bystanders. However you could further argue that were they legalised and a free market existed, much of that crime would cease to exist.
Sorry to interject.
April 24th, 2009 at 4:19 am
259. Spange : don’t apologize, they were all good points. However, I don’t think that by legalizing drugs drug related crime will decrease – well, of course it *will* (duh!) but not in the manner you are referring – just because we allow people to take drugs. The substance that cause the lion’s share of fits of paranoia and other mental issues – not to mention the addiction – is the drug itself, not the additives. So clean drugs won’t help overly much there – if at all.
April 24th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Ok, you gotta have your sugar, but if a schizophrenic or manic-depressive takes a lude he must go to jail.
April 24th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Mark 260. I wasn’t referring to crimes committed because someone is high on drugs. I meant crimes relating to drug use and trade, such as theft/burglary in order to raise funds for their habit. In a free market one could assume the price of drugs would decrease, I would imagine much of the cost is tied into the difficulties of manufacture and distribution of an illicit product. Also, to a great extent, it’s a seller’s market; people want the stuff, they’ll essentially pay whatever they have to. In a free (& legal) market the need for drug dealers would be negated. Would that reduce drug-related gang and street crime? Well, maybe they’d find something else to fight about or maybe not. Without the quick buck of a “job” in the drug trade perhaps they’ll find legitimate work elsewhere. Or maybe not. I think that’s a more complex social issue that cannot solely be attributed to drugs.
In regards to the increased liklihood of committing crime in a drug induced frenzy I’m afraid that as long as alcohol remains legal then I don’t see how one could logically use that as an argument against legalising other drugs. I would venture to say that it is a much bigger problem, certainly in this country, than say crack-induced violence. Yes, in moderation alcohol seems fine, but cultural trends towards drink-til-you’re-a-vomiting-incoherent-monster have made “moderation” a dirty word.
I’m pretty much on the fence as regards this issue tbh, I see some good points on either side of the debate. Must say I quite like what they’ve done in Portugal. I don’t see the “war on drugs” being particularly effective as it is, perhaps it’s time to try another tack.
April 24th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
261. weirdharold : Manic depression – also know as bipolar disorder – is not an excuse for committing a crime, it is not a legitimate defence in itself. And I didn’t say “Chuck the druggies in jail.”. For beginners, I think that the people caught doing drugs – not dealing, doing – should be put in rehab, dealers however… Secondly, I don’t believe that marijuana should be legal.
262. Spange : “…I meant crimes relating to drug use and trade, such as theft/burglary in order to raise funds for their habit…”
Birds of a a feather unfortunately. They do those things because they are addicted and need a fix, altered mental state. It’s much of a muchness.
“…as long as alcohol remains legal then I don’t see how one could logically use that as an argument against legalising other drugs…”
Yes it can be. Do you know what meth does to you compared to alcohol? Not to mention that I personally do agree that it’s hipocritical, but alcohol has been a part of society – all levels of it – for thousands of years, how does meth and coke compare to that?
“…I’m pretty much on the fence as regards this issue tbh…”
So am I, I just like a good debate
“…perhaps it’s time to try another tack.”
I agree, I’m just afraid of what will happen with copius amounts of drugs legal and on the streets.
Incidentally, if the government can’t help themselves and decides to tax – which they will, no question about it – then the illegal street stuff will still be cheaper
April 24th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
261. weirdharold : Manic depression – also know as bipolar disorder – is not an excuse for committing a crime.
Here you are correct, but I do not see where using a substance that he thinks helps his disorder should be illegal. No more than it should be illegal for a black person to drink water from a public fountain.
Am I hearing you say that you must be addict to rob a convenient store. Why can’t we keep armed robbery is a felony. Drug use should not be. We are mixing apples and oranges.
A conclusion that controlled substances causes a mental disorders thus the individual leads a life of crime is not true. My experience leads be to believe a mental disorder is present before the onset of drug use. This belief leads me to believe an addict should be held accountable for his behavior. Drug use should be another issue. Unless he is a danger to himself or others, his addiction should not be a concern for our justice system. In most cases our Prohibition Laws takes away the addicts’ responsibility for his actions. The laws say it is the drugs’ fault, you must quit using drugs or else. Thus the addict puts his effort upon “stop using” not treating his illness, so in short time he is using again, creating an allusion the drug is the problem, but in fact the mental disorder continues untreated.
April 24th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
264. weirdharold : “…but I do not see where using a substance that he thinks helps his disorder should be illegal…”
Lithium salts, used to stabalize moods, are an effective – and legal – treatment for bipolar disorder. They are legal, widely used and prescription because they work, with a lot less nasty side effects than street drugs.
I understand where you’re coming from, but all you’re doing there is promoting addiction. “You’re sad today? Take some heroin, you’ll feel better. What? Sad again? You can’t cope without heroin? Better take some more then.”. You’re not helping these disadvantaged enough as it is people by introducing them to substance abuse.
“…Am I hearing you say that you must be addict to rob a convenient store. Why can’t we keep armed robbery is a felony…”
Right… So, we should get addicts help? But if they do something illegal – i.e. What addicts do – then you’re fine with letting them rot? Just trying to clarify just how hipocritical you are…
I don’t have time to address the rest of that right now, I’ll be back later.
April 24th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
You are attacking me not my position on Drug prohibition.
April 25th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
266. weirdharold : ROFLMAO! Do you know what ad hominem is? I refuted one of your points – all of them actually – and pointed out how hipocritical one of them was. That was not attacking you, attacking you would’ve been “Yeah, well you’re stupid.”, on the contrary, you came closer to attacking the person in 266. If you don’t have anything to say back to my points, don’t, but admit it or leave. Don’t try and wriggle your way out of a sticky situation with “You insulted me.”, because at least I managed to refute some of your points.
I guess that makes you double-hipocritical…
April 25th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I have spent the last 22 years trying to say two things about our drug prohibition laws. One they are the most destructive laws this society has produced since the beginning of slavery. The 10,000 bodies we hear in the news just scratches the surface. Just a few months back, a group of DEA agents shot and killed a 92 years old women firing 50+ times. They found no drugs so they planted some marijuana in her basement. I could type for a week telling the same story over and over again. It is in the news every day. No one seem to listen because we are saving our children. Which is my second point. There are few 15 year olds in schools that cannot direct others where to get a drug of their choice. That sure is a nice way to keeping drugs from children.
Another point that I cannot prove, nor can anyone disprove. Was a point I was talking about in 264 blaming drug for addiction slows the treatment process because we are not treating the illness but some methodology to stop an addict from using. I have not deviated from those points since 1987.
April 25th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
268. weirdharold : And if I ramble on about the KKK being the sweetest thing to come out of the US ever for my entire life, does it make it any less stupid? How does you saying the same thing for 22 years make the points better or more worthwhile? On the contrary, the further we go back the less we knew. And the fact that obviously not all that many people have listened and acted on your points – *despite* the fact that you’ve been preaching them for 22 years – tells me that they’re not all that spectacular.
“…Just a few months back, a group of DEA agents shot and killed a 92 years old women firing 50+ times. They found no drugs so they planted some marijuana in her basement…”
Did you know that the FBI had JFK killed? How about that the US Government were actually the ones who destroyed the WTC with explosives? And of course there’s all of those alien abductions, the fake moon landing etc…
“…I could type for a week telling the same story over and over again. It is in the news every day. No one seem to listen…”
I wonder why? That couldn’t possibly be becuase you’re mistaken? No? Obviously not, stupid me. It must be because everyone else is wrong. Show some humility, it’s a dumb person’s best mate.
“…That sure is a nice way to keeping drugs from children…”
Yeah… Sure, I see your point. Let’s just say “Have whatever you want. Illegal? No, we *want* you to be taking this stuff, it helps keep you away from it.”, can anyone else see the problems/s there?
Your point in 264 is completely circular and, frankly, retarded.
“…This belief leads me to believe an addict should be held accountable for his behavior…”
You’ve been saying since we started, that an addict should be helped, but you’re saying that if they kill someone while high, they should go to prison? How is that helping them? With the black market for drugs in prison, that’s not only *not* helping them, it’s quite conter-productive.
“…A conclusion that controlled substances causes a mental disorders thus the individual leads a life of crime is not true…”
I don’t think that’s what the police are getting at, just what nutcases like you that hate them “because” are getting at. The police can’t just let people go because they have a mental disorder, whether it was the drugs or not. Heaps of things cause mental disorders, where do we stop. “Well, you were born with it, you’re going to prison. But you, you were just abused by your mother, mental institution. You? Ahh, drugs, well how about, naw, we’ll just let you go.”, where does their liability stop? Sure, people might have had the disorder since before they were addicts, who’s to say? What I can say is that if we give them drugs legally and say “Here you go, get high to help yourself.”, we’re not *helping* their mental disorder, are we genius? You want people with mental disorders to self-medicate, but you don’t want addicts? You want addicts to get help, and also be responsible for their actions? Seriously mate, just throw another coupla insane hipocrasies my way, they’re *way* too funny, my heads gonna asplode in a second if I don’t stop laughing.
April 25th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
I am very sorry to have disturbed you. You are going in a direction I am not going.
I am checking out out this conversation.
Good day.
April 25th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
270. weirdharold : No need to apologize, it was good fun. Too bad you didn’t have anything to say in return, but you debated well regardless. No hard feelings I hope?
May 12th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Anybody got any other sensible comments? I’d love to hear from you. As far as my experiernce goes, I found that self medicating on THC to resolve depression made matters worse. However, self medicating on THC to overcome trauma when NOT depressed helped me imeasurably. Go figure.
Now back to hemp.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:55 pm
The government is gonna tax drugs ? FFS what do you think drug dealers do ? Do you think they sell it without making money do it for their fellow men !! Of course they don’t, they make money and they under way the drugs. If they were all de-criminalised the goverment would make money on them and i for 1 would rather they taxed it and not some jumped up little smackhead.
Look at the Netherlands (holland is only part of the country)no junkies = no violent crimes (just people with a medical problem)and compare it with france(spit, spit)whose drug policy is overly strict. For example i was in france(spit,spit) Paris train-station for 4hrs waiting for a train to Amsterdam and 17 times i was threatened by junkies ! luckily i am an evil bastard and sent them on their way LOL
Having worked in mental health for a while you realise that cannibis does not help depression at all making it a lot worse ! Due to the paranoia get rid of the paranoia by decriminalise-ing it then you only have to worry about the other drugs that the idiots are taking
still the greatest site on the web or is it the internet ! will definatly buy the book will i be able to buy via this site and get it signed by jfrater
May 21st, 2009 at 5:42 pm
why am i not surprised that some 1 with bi-polar self medicates with cannibis cannibis is totally the wrong drug 4 this condition/affliction or whatever you want to call it but unfortunatly for them this very real condition won’t let them see sense and they prefer to self medicate rather than take the very harsh medicine given to them by doctors
265. Mark Lithium salts, used to stabalize moods, are an effective – and legal – treatment for bipolar disorder. They are legal, widely used and prescription because they work, with a lot less nasty side effects than street drugs.
total rubbish there are no drugs that work 4 bi-polar due to the drugs having to be taken to work and if you knew any1 personally with this condition you would no
May 21st, 2009 at 5:48 pm
oops sorry about that pressed wrong button
twice
total rubbish there are no drugs that work 4 bi-polar due to the drugs having to be taken to work and if you knew any1 personally with this condition you would know that while they’re ok they take the drugs then when they start to feel ill they stop as they think the DR’s and everyone are trying to get them and that is when cannibis is totally wrong for them due to the paranoia
June 6th, 2009 at 4:53 am
Marijauna can be used to self medicate. Studies have shown time and time again that marijauna can and should be used for medicinal purposes. It can help people with depression w/o ANY of the side effects of the current treatments used. It can also help with the severe nausea associated with chemo,as well as the depression associated with chemo and having cancer. And contrary to popular belief, “weed” is NOT a gateway drug. It is true that most people who end up on man made street drugs tried weed first but stop b/c it wasn’t strong enough to get them the high they desired. Most addicts do not even smoke weed and will gladly take a rock over a bud any day. Also there are millions of people who have smoked or are still smoking weed and NEVER tried anything else. I think the whole “gateway drug” thing is just an excuse that stupid and weak people use, who got hooked on drugs and had to blame it on something other than themselves.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:59 am
@markymark (274): Maybe it’s only a a placebo effect, but they sure help me.
July 20th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
speaking of smoking it, going to mcdonals every day will kill you faster than smoking pot everyday, and no matter how much pot you smoke one night, you will always wake up the next morning
July 21st, 2009 at 12:00 pm
See, people have a misconception of the law. It is not illegal to grow hemp. It is not illegal to possess hemp. You just have to have a tax stamp to have it. It IS illegal to be under the influence of it. So, people can grow it to make these things, they just choose not to.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:58 am
It is a plant. Conceived by a higher power than we are. Not a drug that was and is conceived in a laboratory, manipulated in test tubes and on petri dishes. And controlled by the heads of our goverments(ie. pharma, hospital and insurance company exec’s). Now do you understand why they will not legalize Cannibus. Drugs are made from Plants but they can’t sell Cannibus on the stock exchanges. Drugs can and they’re betting that you will need they’re drugs sooner than later. IT’S A BUSINESS DECISION. WHOM LABELED IT A DRUG?
November 16th, 2009 at 11:18 am
@Sonny (280): It is a plant…Not a drug that was and is conceived in a laboratory, manipulated in test tubes and on petri dishes.
The plant’s active chemical ingredient, THC, is in fact a “drug”.
WHOM LABELED IT A DRUG?
Conventional wisdom. It fits the definition.