Michael Jackson who has featured on this site in the past died on Thursday, June 25. Therefore, as an odd tribute to his talent as a musician, we have put together this list of the most bizarre and scandalous moments in his 50 years.
In the 18-minute music video for “Bad”—directed by Martin Scorsese—Jackson began using sexual imagery and choreography not previously seen in his work. He occasionally grabbed or touched his chest, torso and crotch. While he has described this as “choreography,” it garnered a mixed reception from both fans and critics; Time magazine described it as “infamous”. The racy “crotch grab” dance move became Jackson’s trademark. The move is commonly seen in today’s music videos but at the time, the crotch grabbing shocked the world.
In 1979, Jackson broke his nose during a complex dance routine. His subsequent rhinoplasty surgery was not a complete success; he complained of breathing difficulties that would affect his career. He was referred to Dr. Steven Hoefflin, who performed Jackson’s second rhinoplasty and other subsequent operations. Many believe that he used this as an excuse to get a nose job. In 1993, the popstar stated that he had only had two cosmetic operations – on his nose and chin – done, for medical reasons. His extreme physical transformation suggests that he’s had more than just two, however.
After Jackson reportedly cancelled numerous concerts in 1999, Munich event organiser and Jackson’s friend Marcel Avram lodged a complaint of ‘breach of contract’ against the singer. Jackson then threw the same charge at Avram. After a tug of war in the court room, the two friends managed to come to an agreement.
When Hurricane Katrina ripped through New Orleans, Jackson promised to record a song about the disaster to aid charity. He worked on the project with artists from London and Los Angeles, according to reports in the autumn of 2005 — but the single never eventuated.
In a bizarre twist on the “rags to riches” genre, Michael returned to rags after pouring out enormous quantities of money in defending himself in the various lawsuits against him in recent years. Reports of financial problems for Jackson became frequent in 2006 after the closure of the main house on the Neverland Ranch as a cost-cutting measure. One prominent financial issue for him concerned a $270 million loan secured against his music publishing holdings. After delayed repayments on the loan, a refinancing package shifted the loans from Bank of America to debt specialists Fortress Investments. Jackson had been one of the world’s richest popstars, reportedly worth several hundred million dollars in the 1990s.
Jackson’s home “Neverland” contained, among other things, a zoo and a theme park, with a Ferris wheel, merry-go-round, zipper, spider, sea dragon, wave swinger, super slide, dragon wagon kiddie roller coaster, and bumper cars. It is named after Neverland, the fantasy island in the story of Peter Pan, where children never grow up. On February 25, 2008, Jackson received word from Financial Title Company, the trustee, that unless he paid off $24,525,906.61 by March 19, a public auction would go forward of the land, buildings, and other items such as the rides, trains, and art. On May 12, 2008, a foreclosure auction for the ranch was canceled after an investment company, Colony Capital LLC, purchased the loan. Jackson was in default on the $24.5 million owed on the 2,500-acre (10 km2) property. In a press release, Jackson stated, “I am pleased with recent developments involving Neverland Ranch and I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future.”
In 2002, Jackson brought his new born son (Prince Michael Jackson II – also known as Blanket) onto the balcony of his hotel room in Berlin, as fans stood below. Holding him in his right arm, with a cloth loosely draped over the baby’s face, Jackson briefly extended the baby over the railing of the balcony, four stories above ground level, causing widespread criticism in the media. Jackson later apologized for the incident, calling it “a terrible mistake”.
This is undoubtedly the most controversial scandal that occurred in Michael Jackson’s life. In 2003, Jackson was charged with seven counts of child sexual abuse and two counts of administering an intoxicating agent in order to commit a child sexual abuse felony against Gavin Arvizo, who was under 14 at the time. Earlier that year, a Granada Television documentary, called Living with Michael Jackson, showed the pop star holding hands and discussing sleeping arrangements with Arvizo. Jackson denied these allegations, saying that the sleepovers were in no way sexual in nature. Jackson was found not guilty but this ultimately ended his music career.
This article is licensed under the GFDL because it contains quotations from Wikipedia. Some information courtesy of Bild with thanks.



















June 26th, 2009 at 1:31 am
Had to be an MJ list, Thanks mate
June 26th, 2009 at 1:34 am
RIP. Let’s hope people will remember him as much for his music as for the things in this lists.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:34 am
oh! i thought that listverse will post some good deeds or things about mj!
well! r.i.p to him!
at least, when he is alive, he made his fans happy!
June 26th, 2009 at 1:38 am
As someone who admired & respected MJ for his musical career, I have to confess to being disappointed that the list wasn’t a little more positive. Of course, having said that, I don’t subscribe to the ‘never speak ill of the dead’ philosphy. I just think a tribute to his talent as a musician should have focused on the music that shot him to superstardom instead of the weird crap he became known for in his later years.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:39 am
I must say, its hard to believe he his dead and i imagine the true emotions wont come out to what is bound to be a huge funeral. If everyone can look past the Controversy and see him for the talent he was and the many ways in which his childhood was robbed from him than they will see a frail man who probably wanted nothing more then to please all those he came in contact with, unfortunately this is lead to him being taken advantage of.
To Michael Jackson, one of the Greatest Musicians of our Time, May his memory continue to live on in all those he encountered and in the music that will be relived through generations past, present and future.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:39 am
You don’t have to worry about anything now MJ, Rest in Peace.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:43 am
Michael Jackson’s dead?! How did not hear about this?!
June 26th, 2009 at 1:45 am
@frogmanster (7):
REEEEEEEEAAAALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYY??????????????????
June 26th, 2009 at 1:47 am
While I can’t say I’ve ever been a huge fan of Michael Jackson, I have to admit that if there was ever a man who could really bring a song to life, It was him.
May he rest in peace.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:04 am
first
June 26th, 2009 at 2:08 am
like the list. though i feel a celebration of his life, maybe top 10 songs would also be appropriate.. remember the music
June 26th, 2009 at 2:10 am
This is not the moment for this post.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:12 am
As it might be said on Twitter… #toosoon?
Seriously, though, was looking foward to an MJ list, wasn’t disappointed. Great site, been reading for a year or so.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:12 am
after i heard of his passing i could not wait to get off work, come home, and read another great listverse list. i can always count on you.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:14 am
thanks mj
June 26th, 2009 at 2:14 am
@Alberto (12): I figure that everyone else will be doing the music lists so this seemed a good alternative
June 26th, 2009 at 2:15 am
one less paedo in the world has to be a good thing
June 26th, 2009 at 2:22 am
What’s the difference between Michael Jackson and shopping bag?
One is white, is made of plastic and is dangerous to children; the other you use to carry your groceries home.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:24 am
I’ve heard he is going to be melted down and made into a toy so he can be played with by children for evermore
June 26th, 2009 at 2:27 am
RIP
June 26th, 2009 at 2:33 am
RIP…
June 26th, 2009 at 2:54 am
I was just devasted last night ….
Immediately after hearing about MJ’s death, I put together this awesome Top Ten Michael Jackson Videos with nice informative paragraphs on each video…. I had it posted in the submissions section of LU and was just typing in some extra info to you Jamie… when Explorer crashed on me.
I was so mad and upset that I said a really dirty word.. and I don’t say dirty words.. I worked on that list for three hours trying to make it perfect. When I got over my frustration (well, a little anyway), and told my husband what happen, he pointed out that no matter how many times I redid the list, it will never be as good as the original… hence… no top ten… Damn!!!
RIP Michael… <3
June 26th, 2009 at 2:58 am
RIP
June 26th, 2009 at 3:00 am
“eventuated?”
June 26th, 2009 at 3:02 am
We love(d) you michael, rest in peace. What about the rumor that he is/was a Muslim, is it true? I read on wiki that he has/had joined the nation of Islam. Any guidance … ?
June 26th, 2009 at 3:03 am
JFrater: I have a question for you.
How can you publish this article a day after Jackson dies? Couldn’t this have waited? Or was the intent to receive more hits because the topic was sensational?
When i read the news that MJ passed away, i was hoping that ListVerse will reverse it’s earlier policy of poking fun at MJ (not that he doesn’t deserve it) and at least show some maturity by showcasing some of his most famous songs.
The site has def. let it’s readers down today. There will always be a time to critic Jackson’s eccentricity, but it isn’t today.
Hope, you would reflect on this topic and remove this article.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:10 am
i am a big mj fan, i had tickets to see him in london. i have no problem with this list what so ever… we should remember both the good and the bad of people.
I dont think this list is for hits, its a different spin on things. Why does scandalous = bad. Except the child abuse charges, which it is said he was cleared for, the list is just intriguing and gives an insight into an extraordinary personality.
JFrater keep doing what your doing.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:15 am
hope people remember him for the great dancer and the best popstar ever that he was rather than what he did on the sunset of his career…..
lets just stand up for the king and salute him….
June 26th, 2009 at 3:16 am
It’s a cosmetic publicity stunt of MJ to play dead….
June 26th, 2009 at 3:22 am
Buying the bones of the Elephant man was pretty freaky. Still cannot fault the music Off the Wall will forever stand tall in my CD collection.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:24 am
I enjoy Listverse and the first thing I do every morning is check it out. So, I must say I was a little bit disappointed to see this list today. It’s inevitable that people are going to focus on how strange Michael became in his later years, but I think we owe him more than that for what he gave to us. For people of a certain age he was our generation’s Elvis Presley, a larger than life figure who absolutely dominated pop music in the 80’s, you couldn’t turn on the radio without hearing one of his many hits from Thriller, and if you bought a 45 rpm record (really showing my age here) you got a real bargain because both sides would be hits. I still can’t hear a song from that album without experiencing a flood of nostalgia. I also think it’s tough to blame Michael for the way he turned out, he never had a normal childhood so I think he tried to compensate for that as he got older, at any rate the kind of life he had as a kid is bound to do something to a person. I hope people will concentrate more on his incredible talent, the fact that he made people happy with his music and his dancing, and left many, many people with fond memories of a certain time of their lives. At least that’s how I’d like to remember him.
Rest in peace Michael. Thank you for the memories.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:28 am
Jfrater I can’t blieve you would post such a dispicable list a day after michael jacksons death to be quite honest you make me sick . Shame on you . Scumbag.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:34 am
I’ll be waiting for the conspiracies and “He’s not dead, I saw him in Indonesia” tales coming soon. It will be just like Elvis. He will never die.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:36 am
Oh, I see kakbouter already started the conspiracies. Touche.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:57 am
To all the people up there (12, 26, 31, 32), I can guarantee that you’ll see a lot worse written about MJ in the weeks to come. This isn’t a list flaming him. It’s celebrating his quirks (with the exception of #1)
June 26th, 2009 at 4:02 am
@Enoooo (33): I figured we would get some of those – first we had “Paul is dead” now we have “Michael us alive”
AS for the haters, this list does not say anything we don’t already know – I just prefer a slightly more offbeat list to balance the plethora of good memory lists that will be popping up. surely there is no reason to call me a scumbag for that!
June 26th, 2009 at 4:04 am
Sorry for the typos in the previous comment – I am posting from my iPhone in bed exhausted
June 26th, 2009 at 4:06 am
Oops – by exhausted in that last comment I mean that it has been a long day – it is not a reference to exhaustion based on any activities referred to in yesterday’s list – promise!
June 26th, 2009 at 4:07 am
@jfrater: I think scumbag is a little too strong. I certainly wouldn’t call you that. While I wouldn’t presume to tell you what you should write, I do think a more appropriate list would have been one that celebrated his life and his contributions rather than one that focuses on some of the more negative aspects of the man.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:09 am
Bloody hell you where on the ball with this one mate
June 26th, 2009 at 4:15 am
@Don (39): while I appreciate the perspective I really despise the whole “celebrate their life” thing that seems to be becoming the norm these days. I will let others do that – even here in the comments – but we shouldn’t don rose colored spectacles just because someone died.
This list is not meant to besmirch the good things MJ did – it just seemed to be a more unique list than what most would expect.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:15 am
FACTS:
We should respect the man for his music and entertainment value!
Yes, he was a freak but then again so were all the great ones.
The child abuse, I’m not saying he’s innocent, was never proven in court so we shouldnt accuse the man of such a horrible crime if there is no proof. We all make judgements based on what the press tells us and we know how they are!!
The dude was an icon but he wasnt a “god” so lets cut the sensitive shit and bring on some jokes! After all laughter is the best way to deal with grief. Besides a man is what he inside and outside the ring, and outside that ring MJ was pretty funny!
Finally, for all you guys criticizing Jfrater for posting this list all I have to say is *F OFF* its his site he does whatever he wants… he *is* God!
@ Corn : You are the reason man invented automatic fire arms… trust me it wont hurt a thing! DOUCHE!
June 26th, 2009 at 4:19 am
Never too soon for this list!
Let’s put the man in the historical perspective he deserves – one *very* great album and the rest, very decent as far as most bands go, but nothing really to write home about.
I think he was more honoured because he polarised people – fans became more vehement and detractors even more so. Could dance very well and had a great voice. Could write a fantastic tune in the early solo days.
Thriller – #1 in sales, #20 in the list of all time best albums by Rolling Stone. Phenomenal sales (100 million!). Spectacular album all round.
Off the Wall – 20 millon in sales, #68 in the list of all time best albums by Rolling Stone. Above average in terms of sales and quality.
Bad – 30 million in sales (beaten by the likes of the Backstreet Boys !). Not in the top 500. Run of the mill.
HIStory – beaten in sales by his sister and not in the top 500. *yawn*
Remembering that these comparisons are against the truly greats – how many artists come and go in a summer?
June 26th, 2009 at 4:19 am
not a bad list, but your timing isnt really that good. i would of preferred to read a more positive list about mj and im sure most other people agree.
Everybody already knows all the weird michael jackson stories, we want to hear some good stuff about him for a change
June 26th, 2009 at 4:21 am
All of you saying that Jfrater is evil and so on, can just leave the site and never come back. I do not hate Michael Jackson but at the same time his death has not affected me even though I am a great fan. In the past 2 or so years his personality has changed into something I did not like and therefore I pretty much regarded him as dead 2 years ago. Don’t get me wrong though…before 2 years I thought to my self quite often….how can this guy possibly be human; hes almost like a God. I would also like to point out that Jfrater is not wrong for putting this list on as I am sure he has already covered a music aspect of him (haven’t checked) and even if he hasn’t there are plenty of sites that already have and it would be quite repeatative…this atleast highlights other things that we remember about him…whether it be positive or negative, and frankly the crotch grab is positive in my opinion anyway! Thanks if anyone bothered reading.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:23 am
@jfrater (41): Point well taken. Please keep up the good work. Peace.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:23 am
@Kyran Wray (44): that is my point – over the next month you won’t see anything BUT homages to Michael – so why not have something different?
June 26th, 2009 at 4:25 am
@Don (46): thanks
June 26th, 2009 at 4:25 am
welldone mr.frater you got publicity.good 4 U
June 26th, 2009 at 4:25 am
seems everyone has forgotten 2003 and Martin Bashir’s documentary ‘Living with Michael Jackson’ and the sickening images of MJ holding hands, cuddling and admitting to sleeping with the child that later accused him of abuse.
why would a then 44 year old man need to have sleep overs with children when he has 3 of his own. strange.
i’m sure now he is dead we will learn the truth from those that know, hopefully he was an innocent man… the courts thought so but it cost alot before they felt that way.
death needs to be dealt with in balance, it happens to everyone, just because he made great music MJ shouldn’t be an exception.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:25 am
ListVerse has not disappointed me.
Prior to logging in I had a convo with my daughter, stating that I fully expected to arrive here to a MJ list.
I was hoping that the list I would see was devoted to Michael’s unforgettable and record breaking musical accomplishments from his relatively short but brilliant life.
I DO say thank-you Jamie, for although you have published a list that highlights the artist’s quirks and scandals, you did it in a much more merciful and informative manner than the US news media.
In all fairness to MJ’s accomplishments–I hope we can have a list devoted entirely to the man’s music, which tied a world together before the benefit of the internet.
R.I.P. Michael Jackson
June 26th, 2009 at 4:26 am
There is a special place in Hell for Child molesters. Welcome MJ.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:26 am
Oh – and thanks to all defending my posting of this list – I appreciate it
June 26th, 2009 at 4:29 am
if you want to hear some positive stuff about MJ ‘for a change’ (?) then tune into any news website/channel or radio station across the world. this is a little different, and its appreciated by many
June 26th, 2009 at 4:29 am
Whilst reading some of the comments, the Eulogy Song came to mind…
…all Australian’s will know what I mean.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:30 am
@deeeziner (51): thanks
I would definitely be horrified if I thought I had the integrity of the mass media which, in general, I despise!
June 26th, 2009 at 4:31 am
@dsig (54): exactly my point! I didn’t want to fo what everyone else is doing right now!
June 26th, 2009 at 4:34 am
and sorry for that stupid typo, ‘Australian’s’ is supposed to be ‘Australians’
June 26th, 2009 at 4:34 am
@jfrater (41): I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion “we shouldn’t don rose colored spectacles just because someone died.”
But I take this moment to also remind you that although a list of MJ’s musical accomplishments may seem mundane and and redundant to what will be on EVERY site and channel of the media world, there is a certain amount of regulars here that do not often log in elsewhere.
A lot of regulars consider this site their home, and at the same time are mourning in their own way this abrupt loss.
A tribute list may help assimilate that loss.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:37 am
Oh ppl pls!! Its a list of things that we all knew. All are facts here so no need to hate on JFrater.
Personally I dont feel its in bad taste – thx for the list Mr Frater!! Keep up the good work.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:37 am
Latest reports suggest that Michael Jackson died of food poisoning. Apparantly they found 10 year old nuts in his mouth after he collapsed.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:39 am
I guess, best thing to do about this it to make another list. Maybe, top 10 good things about Mj this time. This list is overwhelming, shouldn’t have been posted this early.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:41 am
Rest In Peace Jacko. You will be remembered for sure.
I wish the list would be Michael’s top ten hits instead. Its not the time to put on an insensitive list like this. Sigh.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:41 am
JFrater: Agree with you that all these criticism is more than valid. I only think that the timing wasn’t great. I also agree that there would sites that focus on the good part. What i would have loved to see:
1. 2 lists – this one and one focusing on his best songs. Provides perspective & also address both sides.
2. 10 things you didn’t know about Jackson. A combo of good work (charities) and not-so-good work.
I don’t know if there was enough material for #2 but i hope you atleast considered a list like that.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:42 am
R.I.P. to Farrah Fawcett as well. You fought a long and horrific battle against cancer. They say you fly with the angels now.
It must really suck to have such a long publicized death watch completely overlooked by the sudden death of an ICON.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:45 am
Great list, jfrater, thank you.
I think no matter when this list got posted, last week or next year, there would be someone who would object to the content.
Personally, I will remember him for the great musician and showman that he was and will only think of the good things when I hear his music. Sure, I’ll remember the bad, but the good will stand out and I believe history will remember him kindly.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:46 am
@65 deeeziner – I thought the same thing. It’s probably a mixed blessing to her family and friends–one, it take some of the attention away so they can grieve privately and yet…it takes some of the attention away so they can’t quite celebrate her life like they might have planned to.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:47 am
Die soon Jfrater. I’d love to make a list about you. Maybe something like this.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:48 am
Had to be an MJ list.
Total legend.
R.I.P.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:50 am
JFrater I hope you wont post a list of the *good things* MJ did just coz ppl are demanding it. Its BS. I didnt dislike the guy or anything, (love Thriller),but hell ppl ligthen up.
The guy did what he did – and it aint no secret. So shut up and dont read the list if its ‘in bad taste’ in your opinion.
Deeeziner: true that – the fact that Farrah Fawcett’s passing is overlooked due to MJ’s passing.
The world has gone mad…
June 26th, 2009 at 4:51 am
): I expected a list of his best 10 songs or something more positive than this.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:52 am
To asdsfjds – jump off a damn cliff and leave JFrater alone – a*hole.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:55 am
Watch he comes back to life and does the Thriller as a Zombie.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:01 am
@ Ransom- That would be the best day of my life.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:06 am
nice list!
too much MJ feelgood vibes in the air… this list will sober things up
How about a Farrah Fawcett list jfrater?
June 26th, 2009 at 5:07 am
RIP MJ
RIP FARRAH
Maybe this list wasn’t to everyones liking right now, it didn’t bother me but oh well! Hmm, I also wouldn’t mind reading a list on Farrah Fawcett. I do agree that her death is now overshadowed somewhat, but fancy losing two massive stars on the same day- completely unexpected.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:08 am
Jackson was found not guilty
found not guilty
not guilty
June 26th, 2009 at 5:10 am
Okay, since Listversers are some of the smartest people I know, maybe someone can clear this up for me. As an avid Beatles fan, I am still completely stumped when it is reported that Michael Jackson owns “a portion of The Beatles catalog.” What exactly does that mean?
My students ask me this all the time, but I can’t give them a definitive answer, and I’m tired of looking like an idiot.
Catalog? Does that mean copyrights? Does that mean publishing rights? Does that mean public performance royalties? And which “portion” of the catalog are we talking about? Is it all songs A-M, or all songs written by Lennon-McCartney, or what?
June 26th, 2009 at 5:16 am
80 warrrreagl
My understanding is it was a part of the royalties, although I could be mistaken
June 26th, 2009 at 5:20 am
Ananas, okay but which royalties? Lyrics? Publishing? Performance? Master recordings? Those are all separate entities, and I always figured that reporters hide behind that word “catalog” because they don’t know for sure, either.
If anybody knows, give me a link so I can see for myself.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:25 am
Just for everyone who’s commenting pointing out that Jackson was found not guilty of child molestation – I’m not finding anything in #1 that suggests otherwise.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:26 am
Just a Theory:
Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett were the same person!!
June 26th, 2009 at 5:27 am
ugh! i’m not a major head-over-heels kind of fan, but i’m truly appalled at the choice of the ‘lowlights’ of his career. i mean, right now we’re trying to god damn celebrate his life.
why can’t everyone just shut the fuck up about it and focus on the good that mj brought to the world. he’s been in the entertainment industry for well over 40 years and there is no way in hell anyone in the entertainment industry can walk away without a couple of reputation burns and whatnot.
we all have our skeletons and dead cats in the closet and need the avenue of freaking postsecret to let it out.
sorry but this list would definitely fail at a memorial.
i hope there’s a more positive list coming up.
ok i’m done. i loved the previous lists though =)
June 26th, 2009 at 5:27 am
“As an odd tribute”? Really? In the wake of his death, what kind of tribute is it to point out some of the worst times in his life? You couldn’t have made a list of his best moments? This article is absolutely distasteful.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:28 am
#55 i have to agree,
eulogy song has been stuck in my head all day since hearing what people have been saying. funny how the world works like that
June 26th, 2009 at 5:35 am
well, gagging the truth won’t make it go away :p
so, the MJ fanboys should lighten up and and accept the good and the bad about their idol
I love this site- it shatters the rose tinted glasses that some sheep wear >:)
June 26th, 2009 at 5:38 am
@Mark (87):
well, you’re entitled to your opinion, and we are also entitled to ours
June 26th, 2009 at 5:47 am
@ asdsfjds :
U’re stepping out of line here dude!! You’re entitled to an opinion and thats it, dont push it! Its his site he does what ever he wants… maybe you should create one for youself and other douche bags!
June 26th, 2009 at 5:51 am
Only 8?
I don’t see this list as inappropriate on the day after the Great Gloved One’s untimely death. These events are part and parcel of his public persona,(ooh–alliteration), and, like it or not, included in his legacy.
He was a huge talent, a great entertainer, enigmatic, outrageous and over-the-top in every way. Wacko-Jacko, we love you, even if you’re crazy.
Sorry I don’t know how to embed this video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoZh2vWyscU
but take a look at 12-year-old Michael. Look at the joy on his adorable face as he sings and dances. His story is a tragic one.
Rest in Peace Michael.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:52 am
Nicely done, sir.
This list brings balance to the overview of Jackson’s life. We are going to see lots of tributes to him – tributes that will overlook the very things that are listed here.
Like all “kings,” Jackson had his faults. Some of them were so over the top and strange that to not mention them is a far greater injustice than listing them.
One can celebrate his life and accomplishments and at the same time view his some of his actions as a cautionary tale that piles of money and piles of accolades can not only be stood upon, but be an anchor around ones neck.
A list of the man’s questionable decisions and actions is not “hating.” It is not inappropriate. It is a reminder that we are all people, and as such we shouldn’t close our eyes to things that people do simply because they can sing, dance, act, paint or whatever.
Remembering a life in balance is never a bad thing.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:56 am
Glad you put this list up. Thre will be nothing but memories of Michael over the next couple weeks. Enough to gag on. I love his music, but he sucked as a human.
@deeeziner (65): Funny that it took 65 comments before someone mentioned Farrah Fawcett. I feel more for her, since she is being totally overshadowed by Jackson. How sad.
Good job, JFrater for putting up this list.
The rest of you who don’t like it because of it’s contents…too bad. It was a great and interesting list. Turn on the news or radio to get the “good” side to MJ.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:01 am
I’m not offended by this list – I don’t believe that dying negates or lessens your wrongdoing. Folks are actually justifying his paedo-weird behavior by pointing to his upbringing. Doesn’t fly; a reason is NOT an excuse.
For those of you complaining “but he wasn’t convicted” (wah wah) go read The Smoking Gun, they have a transcript of the first victim’s statement. Although in my opinion more harm was done to the kid by his parents actions – selling his innocence for 12 mil or whatever the pay-off was. Oh well, he can now afford the very best available psychiatric care.
I take issue with the riches to rags portion of the list. He was living in a house that cost 100,000 dollars per month to rent. If that’s hardship, I want me some.
That said I don’t think MJ was evil, I think stunted is likely a more apt description. He was a great singer and an even better dancer. He should have had more time to make up for his transgressions. He deserved another chance. Damn shame.
@warrrreagl (80): Michael Jackson owns/owned the publishing rights. I think Paul McCartney may have bought them back from him – but I’m not sure about that. Snopes has a good explanation of what publishing rights actually means.
http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/jackson.asp
June 26th, 2009 at 6:03 am
Yeah, I’d like a Farrah list.
I’m sad about her too.
Could somebody make a Farrah list?
(index finger to tip of nose)<– "Not it."
June 26th, 2009 at 6:04 am
asdsfjds – your comments are below the belt – and uncalled for, go and play marbles on the highway.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:06 am
i dont understand this huge admiration people have for the guy as a person, yeah his music was good but come on he built a theme park for kids at his house, hid his own kids face and made them look like idiots, slept in the same bed as kids as he admitted on tv, and you dont get accused of toching kids MULTIPLE times without some sort of reason.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:18 am
mom424, why didn’t I already know that I could count on you? Thanks, sweetie.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:20 am
Little bit tactless methinks, particularly just so you could stand out from the rest of the media, which is a bit of a childish notion. Could at least have the grace to wait 24 hours before this sort of thing.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:22 am
to point out this list isnt distasteful at all, just cos hes dead you cant forget he did all this stuff you morons. (the ones who overlook these occurrunces cos hes dead)
June 26th, 2009 at 6:28 am
It’s about manners and appropriateness and being nice.
so what if the man was weird, strange, a freak, wacko, disturbed, eccentric, or whatever you want to call it??
He still was one of the most musically talented genius who ever moonwalked on earth. I am one of the billions of people who was entertained by his songs.
I can understand your take on this Jamie and i’m trying to respect that. I still think it is way way too early, it only comes across as not being nice. Has it been 24 hours yet? But since it’s done I think it’s only fair for you to do a “good” list of him, don’t you? That would be very nice. After all i’m sure we were all taught to respect the dead – be it a king of pop or a mere peasant.
…
“if you enter this world knowing you are loved and leave this world knowing the same – then everything in between can be dealt with” – Michael Jackson.
No matter how criticized, bullied, and ridiculed he was, I believe he left loved. Rest In Peace.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:32 am
I suggest we stop feeding the troll….hmmm?
June 26th, 2009 at 6:36 am
please take this off..
this is a time to remember him for what we know for sure and not things we thought he may have done.
Being a musician, all of us in nearly every genre are actually in a slump because in nearly every genre he had an influence of some degree and we feel as though we wouldnt be doing the things were doing if it werent for him.
It’s too soon, and now we just feel horrible for even joking about some of the things referenced above..
June 26th, 2009 at 6:37 am
I find the list appropriate and timely. Listverse is all about odd and peculiar lists, so if you want boring, run-of-the-mill “best of Michael Jackson” lists and homages, there’s THE REST OF THE INTERNET right now for you.
Pointing out the bizarre moments of Jackson’s life does not diminish at all the great artistic merits of an undoubtedly legendary musician.
R.I.P., King of Pop.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:46 am
@jfrater i salute you. You hit the nail on the head (41), if you had posted this list the day before yesterday then everyone would have commended you on a great list (which it is
), just because MJ has died doesn’t change the fact that all these things happened and he will be remembered just as much for them as his amazing music career. Seriously people don’t be acting all self righteuos calling jfrater a “scumbag” and telling him off for this list, you probably hadn’t given MJ a second thought in years so it’s a bit late acting like he’s your dead uncle now.
Keep up the good work jfrater! xx
June 26th, 2009 at 6:46 am
You’re right, this is an odd way to “pay tribute” to one of the greatest performers of the twentieth century. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not much of a Jackson fan, but I respect the guy’s talents. I’m not on a ’speaking-ill-of-the-dead’ trip – I’m the last person to get hung up on that – but this list is just spiteful.
I find it rather tragic that this is how you chose to remember the guy. Regardless of what you think of him, his death is a great loss to the performing arts. If you’re too hung up on his tabloid image to appreciate that fact then you’re a philistine. I’d hate to go clubbing with you.
Baxter over and out, probably for good.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:08 am
I love the way some people are criticising this list, it just shows the polar opposites this man attracted.
Me, I have never been a fan of what was a huge media, PR and hyperbole of someone who, if he hadnt started as a young singer and the MTV age had not dawned, would be consigned as another novelty act.
His music showed little talent and the dancing was designed to get further media attention hence the crotch grab stunts. The only song I can even listen to of MJ’s is Beat It and that is only because he had a “real” musician in Eddie Van Halen providing the riff and rythym of the song.
You cant really underestimate his performance skills and the effect this had on popular music but to liken him to some sort of musical and idolatry deity is at best misguided and at worst completely misunderstanding how music is constructed and played.
The name calling by asdsfjds just proves that he seemed to attract very unusual people. You really need to criticise not name call to make your point otherwise you will get the same vitriolic responses. Maybe you want this and are just being a troll, whatever it is everyone has an opinion you, on the other hand, are not helping your cause by being ignorant. I am sure he touched you (err….insert joke here……) in some way but please respond with intelligence
As a footnote he will be remembered more for the above list over time than his contribution to popular music, his music has become second fiddle to all of the media hype, speculation and his own eccentricity and as most of us know there really isnt smoke without fire so protest as much as you want but his own strange ways are to blame for his financial and musical downfall.
Great list Jamie, I always wonder why people are looked on with great affection when they are dead. I am glad you printed this list as it echoes my feelings which really are, meh so MJ is gone.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:09 am
I know he died yesterday and all, and I loved his Thriller album and such, but, I’m already so sick of hearing/reading/watching things about him. Yes, we all know that the King of Pop has passed away, but what about poor Farrah, she died yesterday too, and MJ’s death is just covering that up.
And @ Baxter…I’m sorry to say this, but I actually liked this list. It was a different way to “pay tribute” to the great musician that he was, even if it was an odd way. If you want a praising list or something like that, go to any other website or watch television. At least this has some originality to it.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:09 am
To all you folks out there blindly and emotionally posting hate for this list… I suggest you re-read it with a more open and subjective mind.
I am a great fan of Michael, and really dislike having his darker side brought up, but if you do take the time to go back and re-read, you may learn something new, like I did.
I DIDN’T KNOW his first plastic surgery was associated with a broken nose. And Jamie doesn’t point fingers and make a lot of crude jokes about MJ’s later appearance.
I had no idea the true magnitude of Mj’s financial debts, and since Jamie is fully aware of the nit-picky nature of readers, I’m sure he was quite humble in the figures actually involved.
And how many of the readers here can actually recall the media fervor over the TV airing of the original long style version of “Black or White”. His debut crotch grab in the long artistically stylized opening to the video was shocking gossip fodder for weeks and weeks.
Take a minute to re-read the list and you might see that it a fair and informative list.
And a true fan of MJ will also have faith that the man’s talents will always far outweigh his faults.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:14 am
it seems just because michael jackson died people forget that farah fawcett and ed mcmhoan (yes i know my spelling sucks) died this week too!
June 26th, 2009 at 7:25 am
Fuck it, I’m staying with this one…
“And @ Baxter…I’m sorry to say this, but I actually liked this list. It was a different way to “pay tribute” to the great musician that he was, even if it was an odd way. If you want a praising list or something like that, go to any other website or watch television. At least this has some originality to it.”
That’s the problem though – this doesn’t have any originality to it. If this had been posted on Wednesday then it would just be a trite, dull and unoriginal list. There’s very little on here that most people don’t already know, which hasn’t been crammed down our throats by tabloid hacks for the last 15 years. I don’t care about the veracity of it or the controversy. I don’t even care that much that it’s a negative list. It just seems to me that Mr Frater decided to post on this as he knew it would be controversial and generate page hits. Cynical though this may be, it is made worse by people applauding that fact as if edginess is a greater quality than intelligence or impartiality. And the description of it – “an odd tribute to his talent as a musician” – that’s just bullshit. I mean, call a spade a spade. In no way does this pay tribute to his talent as a musician, so call it what it is – “eight cheap shots at a controversial figure timed to generate business for this website”.
Elvis Presley – best remembered as a fat drug-abuser who had sex with 14-year-old girls.
John Lennon – best remembered as a drug-taking blasphemous hippie who cheated on his wife and probably caused the death of one of his bandmates.
Frank Sinatra – best remembered as a drunk who hung out with Jews and blacks and mobsters.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:28 am
The Grim Reaper has definatly been busy this week.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:29 am
ALL RIGHT, LISTEN UP.
I’m here to defend Jamie Frater’s decision to write and post this list. And not just on account of the “salary” I draw from Frater Enterprises, Ltd., distributors of fine “pharmaceuticals” and hygiene products to many parts of the Pacific, South America, East Asia (not available in Timor) and various states of the Subcontinent…
What is in fact revolting is to see the continued genuflecting of certain elements of the American public (and others probably) at the feet of Celebrity. Yes, here is a man who has died, who produced many hit records in his lifetime but also lived a very bizarre and probably even criminal life in many ways. Well, we can be sorry when people die, particularly before their time, but to bow and scrape at their memory simply because of their celebrity is not only ridiculous, it’s offensive to the sensibilities of anyone with intelligence and enough self-awareness to realize that having money and fame ought not to exempt someone, living or dead, from public consideration of the sordidness of their life, if it too is flaunted before the public—as Jackson’s was.
And enough of this as well: selling millions of records does not in itself make an artist “great” in terms of real talent and ability. Michael Jackson had a certain talent, yes, but I would never have called it more than middling at best. And this coming from someone who is a huge aficianado of R&B, soul, Motown and blues. He had great production skills on his side, yes, and an ability to ring out big hits from otherwise mediocre songs. But much of his image was also bit around this great mystique around him, as the so-called (gag) “king of pop,” and really all on the basis of the hit album that sent him to the top in 1983. Before that he was just another former Motown artist with a string of hits. After that he was a media favorite, and that image snowballed until it was built WAY out of proportion. Does anyone HONESTLY believe that Michael Jackson “was” the 80s, or that he is the primary “force” in modern pop music? Please. He sold a lot of records that, had they come out of someone else’s repertoire, would have been considered blase and forgettable at best–and indeed–how many of you REALLY remember, or CARE to remember, many of the songs he produced beyond a small handful at best? Who still really LISTENS to “Thriller”? Much less the material that came after? REALLY? Oh, some die hard fans, sure. But even when it was released I thought “Billie Jean” was nothing more than catchy fluff… crap really. Danceable and all that… but despicable in many ways too, as typical pop drivel. I found the adoration of Jackson that came in the wake of the release of that album to be nothing short of disturbingly shocking. It’s clear that after the gigantic wave that pop music had ridden in the Sixties, the wave had then broke, and crashed to lows in the 70s and 80s that no one would have anticipated. A casual observer at the time could easily see this; I and many of my friends certainly did, as did many critics—but of course it’s never pleasant to admit that your own years pale in comparison to those of a previous generation’s. There was still good pop being produced in those years–the 70s and 80s–but the high-water level of quality overall had fallen far below what it had once been.
And so someone like Jackson could be retooled into a “pop king” by the media and less-discerning (and less intelligent—sadly there are more and more of both) music fans desperate for some great “pop hero” of their own, which our generation simply did not have. We had no Elvis, no Beatles… and certainly Jackson was never anywhere near that league. But the media, ever willing to suck the ass of Celebrity (because, to their benefit, it sells product) and the public, cowed into accepting whatever was foisted on them, colluded to remake Michael Jackson into some post-modern false echo of the pop greatness of earlier days. But at best it was only ever hollow, and at worst absurd.
Jackson compounded the weirdness of this false, made-up existence by his consistently weird, eccentric, and frankly disturbing behavior. Now, I can fault the man’s upbringing, surely. No doubt it was twisted and perhaps abusive. No doubt Michael Jackson’s was an oddly fragile psyche and the sick celebrity that he breathed in and out daily surely did things to his mind and sense of self. But therein lies the key—had Jackson not been falsely built up into the icon the media thirsted to make him, he would have been just another fairly minor, old Motown player who had a hit now and then, and who probably would have made the news sooner or later for drug issues and perhaps something more sinister, like the child molestation he was repeatedly rumored to be guilty of, even if a charge was never made to stick to him. And he would have ended up in trouble and hype and money couldn’t have bailed him out of it. And that would have been that. But instead, we have what we have… a twisted weirdness that ended like this.
The real comment that a list like this makes is the disgusting nature of celebrity. Take a low-grade crackpot with some pop skills, and turn him into a gigantically hyped up “media star,” and in short order he has more and more license to act the part of the bizarre, sicko clown—and it’s as sad for him as it is for us to watch.
BUT in the end, Jackson was also a grown up who had to take responsibility for the things he did in public and private. CLEARLY he never cared to do so (take responsibility) and didn’t really “care,” period. He’d clearly learned to love and take for granted the strange shield (partially transparent as it was) that had been built up around him, and felt it exempted him from normalcy. Well this guy’s life has ended, and it’s sad to some extent that someone had to live like that, but then again, he was the one who lived it, and much of it was by choice.
Maybe reading about the sordid scandals surrounding a person like this will make us think twice, next time, about allowing the creation of these hollow “pop stars” who are 90% hype and 10% reality.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:32 am
I grasped the Michael Jackson phenomenon in Egypt where at Giza pyramids kids make jokes about naming their camels “Michael Jackson”
MJ was and will be the most famous singer in history, sorry Elvis fans.
The king is dead, long live the king (but who´s the king now?)
@mom424 (89): well said as usual.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:40 am
Welcome back Randall.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:43 am
Baxter:
Sorry, but you’re the one peddling bullshit, because your thoughts are built on a false premise: Elvis Presley, John Lennon, and Frank Sinatra all, yes, had sordidness in their lives. Many people have a dark side–perhaps most. But the brutally honest fact is that Michael Jackson was no Elvis, no Lennon, and no Sinatra. Not even close. And yes, I’m all for a consideration of the ugly details of the lives of these men, because it reminds us that while artistry matters, celebrity is nothing more than hollow nonsense. The proof is when artistry overwhelms celebrity, and the memory of a person’s work lives on because they truly DID have greatness in them.
Elvis WAS a tasteless redneck pill popper. But it seems likely his songs will live on regardless of this. Same goes for Lennon, only more so, as he surely had some level of “genius” about him. Sinatra was a good crooner who was also hyped way behind his actual ability, but he left behind an enjoyable body of work.
In short, varying levels of the REALITY of the actual value of the work these men produced—and time will tell. But general consensus would be that to some degree their work will survive REGARDLESS.
Jackson, however? A few truly worthy hits, but only a very few. The murk and mire of his life already seems to have largely overwhelmed what little he REALLY contributed… and that’s because, in the end, he really WASN’T in the same league as the others. Period.
I’d far sooner remember Otis Redding and James Brown, Wilson Pickett, Elmore James, Marvin Gaye… and countless others, over Jackson—who was never in THEIR league, either.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Jamie, I give you a pat on the back for a job well done, even if half the people on this list have their panties in a bunch.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Hey, on the ball JF! Yesss, you may think I’m late to this thread, but I already posted my MJ “But he’s still alive” theory on the end of yesterdays list.
Given his financial, social, and personal problems, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d faked his own death to get out of the public eye – it would make a lot of sense actually.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:46 am
I don’t give a fuck about celebrity or fame. I’m talking about talent whether it is your cup of tea, Randall, or not. Yes, people do still LISTEN to Jackson’s music – frequently when I go out clubbing this song is spun by the DJ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrPTDU40hO4
…and the crowd ALWAYS goes nuts. And like it or not, Randall, Michael Jackson was not a “middling” talent. Have you seen the guy dance?
You’re complaining that he has been built up by the media into some sort of idol, given him adulation he doesn’t deserve. But this is the same media that tried him and found him guilty of paedophilia. The fact that that media has swung all the way around now to mourn the man should not be lamented – if all they wanted to talk about was his undeniable weirdness then I would truly assume Western culture to be up shit creek.
One note – I would agree that his talent diminished greatly with age. To paraphrase Trainspotting, he went into an uninterrupted (till now) downward trajectory after his early albums. But that doesn’t change the fact that those albums are amongst the biggest-selling of all time. He may have lost it, but to deny he had it in the first place is simply incorrect. I wonder if, when Jack Nicholson dies, Mr Frater will decide to post a list of his sexual transgressions? And I wonder if you, Randall, will applaud that list since Mr Nicholson has never turned out a performance on a par with his seventies successes?
June 26th, 2009 at 7:48 am
I’m not a Michael Jackson fan. I enjoy a few of his songs at most, but I simply have the decency not to ridicule him at his death. Just because he’s a celebrity doesn’t mean we can’t show respect. If someone else you knew died, you wouldn’t go on to point out the worst times in their lives. It’s not celebrity worshipping or “celebrating” their lives, it’s just respect. For Christ’s sake, the events spoke for themselves. It’s clear this list was written out of blatant spite and it’s rather pathetic. The same thing you’d see on the tabloids.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:55 am
“Elvis WAS a tasteless redneck pill popper. But it seems likely his songs will live on regardless of this.”
Indeed. Songs which he didn’t write or produce. Songs which were derivative of black music and for which the talents other than those of the singer were not well-rewarded. Regardless, Elvis is remembered fondly and has fans all over the world (myself included in that number). And though we remember the fact that he died on the toilet, the shadow of his arse does not cast itself over his undeniable talent as a singer.
“Same goes for Lennon, only more so, as he surely had some level of “genius” about him.”
Indeed. But honestly, who LISTENS to Instant Karma any more? By this token, shouldn’t we remember the arrogant headkicking peace-lover rather than the music?
“Sinatra was a good crooner who was also hyped way behind his actual ability, but he left behind an enjoyable body of work.”
If this is your view of Sinatra, what makes him different from Jackson? If you think both are hyped beyond their actual talents (I disagree with you on that), then why is it that Sinatra should be remembered more for his apparently mediocre music while Jackson is best eulogised as a crotch-grabbing, concert-cancelling, money-blowing, baby-dangling, kiddie-fiddling surgery junkie?
June 26th, 2009 at 7:58 am
I was really sad to hear that Micheal had passed away yesterday. He made some great music in my opinion. Sure he was quite an odd character, but I hope that he is remembered more for the great songs he recorded and not for some of the quirkier things he did while he was alive. RIP.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:03 am
Excuse me but Baxter, why are you looking at it from the view of America? How everyone else views Jackson, Presley, Lennon, or Sinatra? Why don’t you be yourself and remember them in the way that you want to, instead of trying to jump down people’s throats? I’ll remember all of the for what great musicians they were and for their talent, not for mistakes that they’ve made. Who fucking cares how everyone else will think of these people, it doesn’t matter. Remember them the way that you want to. Maybe you don’t think that they were that great of musicians, but maybe you respected them. Or maybe you’ll remember them for the mistakes that they made throughout their life, but in any damn case, think for yourself and not for others.
I’m not trying to say this rudely or anything, I’m just saying that this list shouldn’t be bothering anyone because it’s one person’s take on his death. Everyone has their own take on it and how they will remember them, so why does arguing in stupid comments have any relevance?
June 26th, 2009 at 8:04 am
Very sad moment for many popstars and fans. Rest in piece, Michael Jackson.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:05 am
…that being said and after reading Randall´s gargantuan post, I would like to add that the kingdom I mention obviously and exclusively refers to the mass media hype.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:10 am
Nicolelodean, while I see where you are coming from, I also feel that Listverse is a community. There’s a comments box so that people can comment on the list. If I think this list is cynical, trite and spiteful then I’ll say so. Similarly, you have a right to disagree with me if that’s how you feel. But I have as much right to disagree with this list and some of the comments posted as you do to disagree with my comments. That is the ‘beauty’ of the internet.
And what do you mean about America? I’m not American.
“I’ll remember all of the for what great musicians they were and for their talent, not for mistakes that they’ve made.”
Fucking ditto, mate.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Randall: I agree with most everything you’ve said but I would beg to differ about his skills. That boy can dance – as well as Gregory Hines and that’s saying much. He brought back soft shoe, invented popping, and his moves…have me in awe. Even the crotch grabbing somehow fit. Very talented. Not so fond of the girly falsetto singing, but the package deal was pretty awesome.
Also isn’t Lennon remembered by many as being the guy who said that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus? (probably a true fact at the time btw)
June 26th, 2009 at 8:14 am
This list is not very respectful. R.I.P MJ. Greatest musical genius.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:16 am
I didn’t mean to say “America” persay, I meant it as a group think. As in, it’s portrayed that the masses remember these people for the wrongs and mistakes they’ve made in their lives, instead of forming their own ultimate opinion about it and not conforming and thinking “well hey, yeah, he did have mistakes, and he was a bad person!” and blahblahblah. I respect everyone’s opinion on this site and in real life, but I just felt the need to comment that they are only opinions. Even if we disagree with them, you can’t try to change someone’s. Instead its better just to view it the way you want to, and keep faith in that.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Thanks MJ
June 26th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Baxter:
Trying to defend nonsense just makes you look inane and stupid, Baxter. Back off and stop and think about what you’re saying. Are you HONESTLY… *HONESTLY*… going to sit here and try to tell me that Michael Jackson EVER deserved, for a MOMENT, the plaudits and fame HEAPED on him?
How was he better than Jackie Wilson? Marvin Gaye? Sam Cooke? Otis Redding? Answer: he wasn’t. Pure and simple. He was, compared to them, middling. But the true level of his talent (I never said he was UNtalented) mattered far less than the HYPE which was inflated around him.
“I don’t give a fuck about celebrity or fame.”
The HELL you don’t. Or you wouldn’t be sitting here trying to argue that Michael Jackson actually somehow deserved or deserves the fawning adoration given him by a cynical media and a deluded public. You’ve bought into it as much as anyone else.
“I’m talking about talent whether it is your cup of tea, Randall, or not. Yes, people do still LISTEN to Jackson’s music – frequently when I go out clubbing this song is spun by the DJ……and the crowd ALWAYS goes nuts.”
Oh, so the reaction of a bunch of kids in a club who are otherwise bereft of good pop (there’s less and less of it produced each succeeding year) to one song proves he was the greatest talent in 30 years? You’re reaching. WAY reaching.
No shit people still listen to him, Baxter. I never said people didn’t LISTEN TO HIM, period. I asked how many people HONESTLY can say they still listen to him. Some, sure. But my money is on that number declining sharply over the coming years. Because there quite simply isn’t that much there to care about.
“And like it or not, Randall, Michael Jackson was not a “middling” talent. Have you seen the guy dance?”
Oh, so that’s the measure of his talent now? His choreography? So… what? Michael Jackson was a great dancer, and that adds value to his music?
Jackie Wilson could do some awesome shit on stage too, Baxter. But his music is remembered more than that. YOU, on the other hand, just made my argument for me. Jackson was a product of the Music Video generation. His reputation rests largely on that—the gyrations and moves he produced as visual accompaniment to songs that were, IN FACT, otherwise of low to middling grade—or downright worthless.
“You’re complaining that he has been built up by the media into some sort of idol,”
NO, I’m not just “complaining” about this—-I’m stating it as FACT. I was there. I was born in 1965, saw Michael Jackson with the Jackson Five when he was a kid, and saw him produce a small handful of fairly minor hits over the subsequent years, and then saw the kind of media-driven insanity that went WAY out of proportion for him, in the wake of “Thriller,” and it was obvious THEN that it was all bullshit. I was FAR from the only one who recognized this at the time. The 80s were UTTERLY lacking for a big “pop” hero, and so one was manufactured for us.
“But this is the same media that tried him and found him guilty of paedophilia.”
Again, no shit, Baxter. That the media is capricious and will turn on its own creations ought to be no surprise. The idea is to sell product. Jackson was a product whether he was sold as “good” or “bad.”
And by the way… do I take it from your tone that you excuse his alleged paedophilia? That you dismiss the charges?
“The fact that that media has swung all the way around now to mourn the man should not be lamented – if all they wanted to talk about was his undeniable weirdness then I would truly assume Western culture to be up shit creek.”
You are claiming that you actually base the health of Western culture on how they report on and look back on the life of a pop star?
NO, Baxter—THAT is more of a sign of the danger that Western culture might be in—that you can actually make that claim. Unbelievable.
“But that doesn’t change the fact that those albums are amongst the biggest-selling of all time.”
Record sales have only so much to do with actual TALENT, Baxter. I can’t believe I have to keep returning to this point. This obvious truth seems to escape people time and time again. I could cite you dozens of crap “talents” who have sold millions of records over the decades. This proves what to you? That those people must be artistic geniuses? On what would you base this?
“He may have lost it, but to deny he had it in the first place is simply incorrect.”
A) I never denied Jackson had SOME talent. Rather, I questioned that he ever had the HUGE, galactic-sized talent people have made him out to have. B) on what would you base the claim that he HAD some great, huge talent earlier on? On what specifically? What great artistic contribution did he make that placed him in such lofty heights?
“I wonder if, when Jack Nicholson dies, Mr Frater will decide to post a list of his sexual transgressions?”
Why not? Jack Nicholson too, to my thinking, is an overrated, hyped up “talent” who also deserves to have his memorial balloon pricked a bit.
“And I wonder if you, Randall, will applaud that list since Mr Nicholson has never turned out a performance on a par with his seventies successes?”
Yes I would, Baxter—because unlike you, I recognize that there is a polarity of difference between an artist’s or actor’s true contributions and the CELEBRITY that has been built up and inflated around him.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:27 am
The undisputed king of pop is now dead. Me here in India saw a small rally of well wishers holding pictures and wearing T-Shirts of MJ, were mourning his death.
He is probably the most well know or heard singer/dancer of all time .
Lets remember for his songs and not for the above reasons.
May his Soul rest in Peace..
June 26th, 2009 at 8:30 am
I’m not a fan of Michael’s, but I also think this should’ve been a more positive list. Or possibly one about celebrity deaths. In the last month alone there was Michael Jackson, of course, Farrah Fawcett, Ed McMahon and David Carradine – I apologize if I missed any. A tribute list would be nice to see. May they all rest peacefully.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:32 am
@Randall (108): Eloquently put, as always. I never bought into the hype of MJ. I like his music, just like I like Elvis and The Beatles.
Honestly, people need to lighten up around here. Each and everyone of us have a skeleton or two in the closet. MJ just had a few more than most.
I don’t read the newspaper or follow celebrity news so some of these on the list were a surprise to me. I for one am glad we get to see a different side to people other than the fame and hype the media is known for pushing on us.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:37 am
I wasnt going to comment further on this but Baxter’s blind adoration of MJ is incredibly narrow-minded and his view of sampling is also something that needs addressing.
The most sampled musician in history, and also really the most overlooked act when it comes to this musical genre that MJ clung to the coat tails of, is James Brown.
“The Godfather of Soul”, James Brown was considered by many to be the most legendary artist on the planet until his death. With hits including “Papa’s Got a brand new bag”, “Get Up (Sex Machine)”, “It’s a Man’s Man’s Man’s World” and “I Feel Good (I Got You)” he is the most sampled musician in history. He was still touring into his seventies, and was known as, “The hardest working man in showbusiness”.
Now if you are going to discuss this musical genre in any depth then you need to understand that MJ was a pale (err…..again insert random joke here………) and rather pathetic James Brown imitator.
Randall I agree with your quotes, but again many of the real musicians musicians are very rarely considered when they lose their lives. Stevie Ray Vaughn was a huge loss to the music world barely recognised in the media at the time. And god forbid we lose Chuck Berry who really is the King of Rock and Roll and it is only through racial issues in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s that he is not recognised as such.
MJ is a product and the architect of his own downfall, known more for his personal life than his music. Mass celebrity media manipulator but an act worthy of adoration, I dont think so
June 26th, 2009 at 8:39 am
The celebrity-worship boat left me on the island a long time ago.
People who are famous for being famous?
Reality television ’stars’?
Ultra-short-term nostalgia (‘I Love 2008′, no doubt currently being written with suitable vox pops from Big Brother contestants and shitty quasi-comedians who would otherwise be out of work)?
Fuck all that.
If you want to see an example of this taken to its most extreme track down and watch a documentary called “Wacko about Jacko” – it truly is scary in a fascinating car-crash kind of way…
June 26th, 2009 at 8:41 am
“But honestly, who LISTENS to Instant Karma any more?”
I do.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Randall: you are wrong, chin up old man!
Jfrater: shoddy journalism! Not just here but all the recent articles.
Anyway, I blame it on the boogie
June 26th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Baxter:
“Indeed. Songs which he didn’t write or produce. Songs which were derivative of black music and for which the talents other than those of the singer were not well-rewarded.”
This is an excellent point. However, it also is a point that many singers are remembered simply for their ability to make a song memorable and accessible. THAT is what Elvis did, and the real reason why he’s remembered. Me, I’m frankly not a fan, not a big one anyway. I like some of his stuff very much, of course—but I rank the Beatles far higher, and rank people like Sam Cooke and Otis Redding higher as well. But many singers didn’t write their own material. Their talent was therefore in their voice and presentation. Big whoop. You’ve made no point there.
“Regardless, Elvis is remembered fondly and has fans all over the world (myself included in that number). And though we remember the fact that he died on the toilet, the shadow of his arse does not cast itself over his undeniable talent as a singer.”
Because he DID have a truly great talent, yes. Jackson had talent—but NOT *as* great. He simply did not. And if you’re going to argue that he did, I’d demand that you stand up and prove it.
“Indeed. But honestly, who LISTENS to Instant Karma any more? By this token, shouldn’t we remember the arrogant headkicking peace-lover rather than the music?”
What you’ve clearly missed is the point I was making overall. It isn’t a matter of CHOOSING what to remember. It is a matter of the question of whether the MUSIC wins out over the memory of the person’s life. If the music is truly valuable, if it truly has merit, it will last and survive. If not, it won’t. And I’m saying it’s my belief Jackson’s LARGELY will not. Some of it will, sure. But not enough to merit the nonsense that was built up around him from the early 80s on. Not even close.
“If this is your view of Sinatra, what makes him different from Jackson?”
A somewhat less sordid life, for one thing. And better songs.
“If you think both are hyped beyond their actual talents (I disagree with you on that),”
No kidding? Do you? I’m shocked!
“then why is it that Sinatra should be remembered more for his apparently mediocre music”
I don’t find all of Sinatra’s music to be mediocre. Some of it was, sure. But many of the hits he produced were excellent songs by excellent songwriters. Sinatra made some of those songs even more memorable and accessible.
BUT–Sinatra too was blown out of proportion as “the chairman of the board” and similar whatnot nonsense. He was good—sometimes very, very good. But his level of talent and ability and taste never really matched the huge hype built up around him.
“while Jackson is best eulogised as a crotch-grabbing, concert-cancelling, money-blowing, baby-dangling, kiddie-fiddling surgery junkie?”
Jackson, I remind you, LEFT US with that memory of him. He DID act in off the wall, bizarre ways on MANY occasions. Sinatra, by comparison, had a temper problem, was arrogant, womanized (but no more than many others) and pal-ed around with mobsters. Otherwise he lived a fairly dignified life. A mix of good and bad. Whether his music outlives his reputation, we’ll see. So far it looks like it will and I believe that in fact it will.
Jackson? We’ll see. My belief is that his music won’t. The hype built around him was a false balloon that will deflate in time. And the level of his TRUE talent will bring his artistic reputation down to the level where it belongs. Or so I can only hope.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:47 am
This is Popular:
Well said.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Randall its me Blue cant be arsed to sign in to this WordPress thing.
Hope you are well, I have not bothered to comment for a while not had anything interesting in the lists.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:56 am
I don’t think Farrah Fawcett’s death was in any way “overlooked” by the media. I was hearing/seeing stories about her passing hours before any news of Michael. Maybe Farrah’s family are blessed to have a chance to greive and mourn in peace.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Rest In Peace Michael Jackson – your music and memory will live on forever.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Blue/This is Popular:
No, me either… not much of interest lately… at least not in terms of commenting.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Where’s Farrah Fawcett’s damn list?!
Heh heh.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:20 am
I would label this kind of list as “bad taste”, as mr Jackson is dead but he hasn’t even been buried.
However, this is the Internet.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:30 am
JFrater: thanks for the refreshing take on MJ. Here in the states, you could not turn on a tv or radio last night without hearing all about him and his music and what a great guy he was. Today it is worse, with all the networks having specials about him. (do they have this stuff prepared ahead of time?)
He was a great entertainer for a long time, and he was a freak for a longer time. He admitted on tv that he let little boys sleep in his bed. No sex? Maybe. BUT ADULTS DO NOT SLEEP WITH KIDS NOT THEIR OWN!!! PERIOD!!!
Nor do they dangle them off balconies.
His death eclipsed that of Farrah Fawcett, who was a good actress and a very gracious person, who was not a freak. RIP Farrah.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:30 am
OK, here we go…
“Trying to defend nonsense just makes you look inane and stupid, Baxter.”
Insults in the first line. Well done.
“Back off and stop and think about what you’re saying. Are you HONESTLY… *HONESTLY*… going to sit here and try to tell me that Michael Jackson EVER deserved, for a MOMENT, the plaudits and fame HEAPED on him?”
I don’t see why not. Popularity is largely democratic, and I think his talents spoke for themselves.
“How was he better than Jackie Wilson? Marvin Gaye? Sam Cooke? Otis Redding?”
He was a better dancer than any of them. What of it? Picasso was a better painter than Stephen Hawking.
“Answer: he wasn’t. Pure and simple.”
Because talent and enjoyment are objective, not subjective. Quite.
“He was, compared to them, middling.”
Compared how? Compared as a voice? Yes. Compared for presentation? Yes, most of the time. Compared as a showman and a dancer? No.
“The HELL you don’t. Or you wouldn’t be sitting here trying to argue that Michael Jackson actually somehow deserved or deserves the fawning adoration given him by a cynical media and a deluded public. You’ve bought into it as much as anyone else.”
The fact that I can acknowledge a talented individual does not mean I’ve been brainwashed. And where exactly has this ‘fawning adoration’ been seen in the last 15 years? Absolutely nowhere.
“Oh, so the reaction of a bunch of kids in a club who are otherwise bereft of good pop (there’s less and less of it produced each succeeding year) to one song proves he was the greatest talent in 30 years? You’re reaching. WAY reaching.”
I didn’t say he was the greatest talent in 30 years. When you start to make stuff up, then that’s when you start reaching, sir.
“No shit people still listen to him, Baxter. I never said people didn’t LISTEN TO HIM, period. I asked how many people HONESTLY can say they still listen to him. Some, sure. But my money is on that number declining sharply over the coming years. Because there quite simply isn’t that much there to care about.”
Nope. Aside from the albums which more people have historically bought more of than those of any other artist apart from Elvis and the Beatles. And we all know that artists tend to be better appreciated in their lifetime than when they die… right?
“Oh, so that’s the measure of his talent now? His choreography?”
Yeah, that’s right Randall. I’ll bet with the right choreography you would really light up the stage. The ability to dance well is not a talent. Baryshnikov? Some twat in tights.
“So… what? Michael Jackson was a great dancer, and that adds value to his music?”
The music speaks for itself. Millions of people around the world enjoy it, and yes, still listen to it.
“Jackie Wilson could do some awesome shit on stage too, Baxter. But his music is remembered more than that. YOU, on the other hand, just made my argument for me. Jackson was a product of the Music Video generation.”
So what? You’re a product of the baby boomer generation, right? Should I hold that against you?
“His reputation rests largely on that—the gyrations and moves he produced as visual accompaniment to songs that were, IN FACT, otherwise of low to middling grade—or downright worthless.”
By what scale are you measuring worthlessness? Sales – approaching a billion units sold. Monetary value? We know the guy had money because he blew almost all of it. Enjoyability? Subjective in itself, I refer you back to the sales.
To be continued…
June 26th, 2009 at 9:35 am
rest in peace brother
June 26th, 2009 at 9:40 am
dont you just love free speech, lets all just move to china.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Yeah, I’ve been reading listverse for quite some time, but never got around to commenting or posting. However I have to say that this is in pretty poor taste.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:45 am
I’m amazed with the media’s covering of MJ. I know I shouldn’t be, but knowing that Farrah Fawcet died and hearing virtually nothing, in comparison to MJ, is just strange. They’re trying to portray him as a great guy too, what about Ed McMahon, didn’t he do more to help out than MJ??? I don;t know about everyone else, but I just find it weird that a man of MJ’s reputation (minus his musical success, and including more of the above mentioned in the List) is getting this much attention. BTW, nice list JFrater.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:55 am
I’m just glad that Prince is still going strong. Honestly, MJ was good in the 80’s, but that’s about it. He had “Off The Wall” and “Thriller”, beyond that it was just a freakshow. Prince’s musical ability literally shits on any of the so called music made by Jackson after Thriller and by any music that’s made today! You may be asking yourself “who the hell mentioned Prince?” yeah well I went there!!
June 26th, 2009 at 9:56 am
I think Michael Jackson didn’t realize that his social activities with kids were unappropriate and strange to the average person.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:58 am
“NO, I’m not just “complaining” about this—-I’m stating it as FACT. I was there. I was born in 1965…”
You were there. You didn’t like it. Ergo – Jacko bad.
“Again, no shit, Baxter. That the media is capricious and will turn on its own creations ought to be no surprise. The idea is to sell product. Jackson was a product whether he was sold as “good” or “bad.””
But that isn’t a “fawning media”. Calling him a paedophile for 15 years is not “adoration”. I don’t dispute that he was sold. So what? So was Elvis. So were the Beatles.
“And by the way… do I take it from your tone that you excuse his alleged paedophilia? That you dismiss the charges?”
Not at all. I think he was a pervert. Doesn’t detract from his talent.
“You are claiming that you actually base the health of Western culture on how they report on and look back on the life of a pop star?”
I base it on a lot of stuff. Believe me, there’s plenty to make me think we’re headed up shit creek right now. If one of those ways is to examine how they react to the death of one of the biggest-selling artists of all time, then so be it. Is cultural history of no interest to you?
“NO, Baxter—THAT is more of a sign of the danger that Western culture might be in—that you can actually make that claim. Unbelievable.”
Believe it, buddy-boy.
“Record sales have only so much to do with actual TALENT, Baxter. I can’t believe I have to keep returning to this point. This obvious truth seems to escape people time and time again. I could cite you dozens of crap “talents” who have sold millions of records over the decades. This proves what to you? That those people must be artistic geniuses? On what would you base this?”
You make a good point – shit talent does sell. The difference is that everyone seems to be willing that he had talent whether they enjoy the music or not – except you.
“A) I never denied Jackson had SOME talent. Rather, I questioned that he ever had the HUGE, galactic-sized talent people have made him out to have.”
I think he had ‘it’.
“B) on what would you base the claim that he HAD some great, huge talent earlier on? On what specifically? What great artistic contribution did he make that placed him in such lofty heights?”
Beats me. But whatever it is, it guaranteed his popularity alongside the pantheon of other greats whom he will go down in history aside – Elvis, the Beatles, et al.
“Why not? Jack Nicholson too, to my thinking, is an overrated, hyped up “talent” who also deserves to have his memorial balloon pricked a bit.”
Oh wow! Didn’t see that one coming…
“Yes I would, Baxter—because unlike you, I recognize that there is a polarity of difference between an artist’s or actor’s true contributions and the CELEBRITY that has been built up and inflated around him.”
Let me tell you something – I had never even heard of Jack Nicholson when I first saw the Shining. I thought he was a golfer. Still, his performance blew me away. So tell me sir, how did his celebrity manage to seep into my conciousness and work its black magic?
Or is it possible that you are so full of yourself that you cannot tell the difference between an artist with no talent and an artist you don’t like?
June 26th, 2009 at 10:04 am
@Randall (134):
“However, it also is a point that many singers are remembered simply for their ability to make a song memorable and accessible.”
MJ may not have been a great musician but he was a magnificent entertainer. His songs (though no great musical masterpieces) were catchy, his choreaography was energetic and innovative. I think very few people alive in the 80s will ever forget songs (and videos) like THRILLER or BEAT IT. No, I may not listen to them every day but if I hear one by chance I will sing it. Same goes for Elvis.
I do agree with you on most of your post. If he is remembered more for his eccentricities than his music, it will be his own fault. He bought into his own public image as an “untouchable deity” and apparently thought he could get away with anything.
In any case, jfrater, I liked the list.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:05 am
@ 75 Ananas
“Jackson was found not guilty
found not guilty
not guilty”
So was OJ.
So was OJ.
So. Was. OJ.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:05 am
Have you been up my Wishing Tree?
It’s where I come to think and dream.
And now I’d like to show you my Wishing Tree.
Where we can laugh and giggle and scream. Hee hee!
Imagination ist the key!
Won’t you imagine along with me?
We can be spacemen, or pirates on the sea.
Yes we can do everything,
And I mean, everything!
Up in my Wishing Tree! Hee hee! Ooooooooh!
June 26th, 2009 at 10:06 am
All i got to say is KARMA. He got what he had coming he needs to be remembered for the sexual monster he is. To all the boys that have been molested by micheal, you can now sleep safe
June 26th, 2009 at 10:12 am
It’s really scary how many people are whining about this list. What would you rather it have been? A list of his top 10 albums? You could go on wikipedia or any other of the millions of websites that would show that. That would just be completely boring and overdone.If you want some sort of memoriam turn on any news channel for the next month and you will see one. I say just stop crying over the list and pay your respects to the man for everything he has done, INCLUDING all his faults.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:14 am
How about a “10 reasons to kiss JFraters ass” list??
June 26th, 2009 at 10:15 am
can someone do the top music icons ever? PLEASE love to see it… doesn’t have to be top ten like twenty or 30 itd be the bessssssst
June 26th, 2009 at 10:21 am
152 ames801
June 26th, 2009 at 10:05 am
so you’re saying that you dont believe in the justice system? well hats off to you
June 26th, 2009 at 10:22 am
stoned wallabies make crop circles apparently.
or should that be cropped wallabies make stone circles?
June 26th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Note: that last line should read: “Or is it possible that you are so full of yourself that you cannot tell the difference between an artist with middling talent and an artist you don’t like?”
There we go.
To the person who said that they still listen to Instant Karma – so do I.
“This is an excellent point. However, it also is a point that many singers are remembered simply for their ability to make a song memorable and accessible. THAT is what Elvis did, and the real reason why he’s remembered.”
I think the same can be said of Michael Jackson.
“Me, I’m frankly not a fan, not a big one anyway. I like some of his stuff very much, of course—but I rank the Beatles far higher, and rank people like Sam Cooke and Otis Redding higher as well. But many singers didn’t write their own material. Their talent was therefore in their voice and presentation. Big whoop. You’ve made no point there.”
I’ve made “an excellent point”, which turns out to be no point at all. Hmm.
So – the talents of many singers were in their voice and their presentation, but Jackson’s talents in these areas mean little or nothing? His reputation is founded on smoke and mirrors?
“Because he DID have a truly great talent, yes. Jackson had talent—but NOT *as* great. He simply did not. And if you’re going to argue that he did, I’d demand that you stand up and prove it.”
OK. Here is my proof that Jackson was a more talented dancer than Elvis Presley:
Jackson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xs9OQHpwDE
Presley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpzV_0l5ILI
Both great performances, but which is the more talented dancer? Or are his talents as a showman to be overlooked?
“What you’ve clearly missed is the point I was making overall. It isn’t a matter of CHOOSING what to remember. It is a matter of the question of whether the MUSIC wins out over the memory of the person’s life. If the music is truly valuable, if it truly has merit, it will last and survive. If not, it won’t.”
Luckily, it does and it will. Sales of his albums have apparently ’skyrocketed’ today. He ain’t suffering so far. Time and history are on his side.
“A somewhat less sordid life, for one thing. And better songs.”
You acknowledge Sinatra’s talent because he had a somewhat less sordid life?
“No kidding?”
Nope.
“Do you?”
I do.
“I’m shocked!”
Sorry about that.
“I don’t find all of Sinatra’s music to be mediocre. Some of it was, sure. But many of the hits he produced were excellent songs by excellent songwriters. Sinatra made some of those songs even more memorable and accessible.”
I don’t find all of Jackson’s music to be mediocre. Some of it was, sure. But many of the hits he produced were excellent songs by excellent songwriters. Sinatra made some of those songs even more memorable and accessible.
“BUT–Sinatra too was blown out of proportion as “the chairman of the board” and similar whatnot nonsense. He was good—sometimes very, very good. But his level of talent and ability and taste never really matched the huge hype built up around him.”
I think it did. I love Sinatra. I’ve been listening to his music since I was 8. There has been no singer of popular music who has ever come close to Sinatra’s control, timbre and style. Or his talent.
“Jackson, I remind you, LEFT US with that memory of him. He DID act in off the wall, bizarre ways on MANY occasions.”
Not to mention in ways which were Bad, Dangerous and Earth Song!
“Sinatra, by comparison, had a temper problem, was arrogant, womanized (but no more than many others) and pal-ed around with mobsters. Otherwise he lived a fairly dignified life. A mix of good and bad. Whether his music outlives his reputation, we’ll see. So far it looks like it will and I believe that in fact it will.”
Yeah, I believe that too since he died, like, eleven years ago.
“Jackson? We’ll see. My belief is that his music won’t.”
You think that Jackson’s being alive is what has kept the Jackson 5’s legacy up? You think his records from 30 and 40 years ago will suddenly become passe? Oh please.
“The hype built around him was a false balloon that will deflate in time.”
Like the one built up around Elvis and the Beatles?
“And the level of his TRUE talent will bring his artistic reputation down to the level where it belongs. Or so I can only hope.”
Hope away, man, hope away. He has reality on his side. And if that fails, there’s always sentimentality and the gullibility of the common people to fall back on, right?
Baxter out.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:26 am
@GTT (151): He bought into his own public image as an “untouchable deity” and apparently thought he could get away with anything.
I would like to expand on that.
Many people today think he was acting like a child with a child’s mentality when all of his escapades came to light. Even he jumped into it saying he saw nothing wrong with what he had done. I think it was just convenient for him. An escape route.
@ames801 (152): Very clever!
June 26th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Bollocks. Just realised that I wrote “Sinatra” at one point where I should have written “Jackson”. Apologies for the failure to proof-read.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:29 am
@Ananas (158):
I didn’t say that at all. They were charged. They hired representation that turned the justice system into a media circus (if it doesn’t fit you must acquit, jumping on an SUV before entering the court room, showing up in court in pajamas). They were tried. And they were found not guilty. I believe in the justice system most of the time…just not in these 2 cases.
And, thank you! Hats off to you as well. Have a great weekend
June 26th, 2009 at 10:34 am
“I wasnt going to comment further on this but Baxter’s blind adoration of MJ is incredibly narrow-minded”
I’m not that big a fan. I’m just acknowledging the man had talent.
“and his view of sampling is also something that needs addressing.”
My view of sampling? Did I mention sampling?
June 26th, 2009 at 10:47 am
It always amuses me how people were outraged when O.J. and Michael were found not guilty, but the same outrage wasn’t shown when a black man is hot 12 times in the back. I am not condoning the crimes, if they were in fact committed by the two, but if you have conclusive evidence that proves it, the number is 911.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Why is there always such an intelletual rush on this site to rate music and musicians as if they were grades of laminate flooring? If I listen to Otis Redding, it’s because I need to hear some soul, not because he ranks highly enough on somebody else’s Music Legacy and Legitimacy Scale. I listen to The Beatles because they make me feel good. And I listen to Michael Jackson because he has a groove. His music is *gasp* fun. He doesn’t need to hit some arbitrary musical/historical measurement for me to like what I’m hearing. Where’s the fun in that?
I don’t ignore Bobby Purify because he doesn’t rate as highly as Clarence Carter. And I don’t dismiss Michael Jackson because he might not have the longevity of Frank Sinatra. I like all of them, depending on my mood.
Applying some sort of measure of central tendency to the quality/value of music is pathetic. If you dig somebody’s stuff, then listen to it. If you don’t, then God bless you.
It’s music, man. Not insulation ratings.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:51 am
On another note, while I enjoy this site and the many top ten lists, this one is in very poor taste. I mean, no one announced the death of Elvis as ” here is a racist junkie that stole the style of Chuck Berry, oh, and he was also a pretty good singer. GTFOH
June 26th, 2009 at 10:54 am
“Not available in Timor”
Thanks for that Randall
One of the most bizarre things I have heard about MJ (and please forgive me if this is just a rumor or not true) is that he paid money to some guy for a voodoo curse to kill Steven Spielberg.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:26 am
@blogball (167): do you know where can I register?
June 26th, 2009 at 11:27 am
@deadlycynnamon (128): That’s a cracking idea- a list on who the world has lost and a summary of their greatest achievements. I’d read it anyway!
June 26th, 2009 at 11:27 am
The sad thing about Michael Jackson is that he had such talent and promise when he was young. I wish I had been old enough in his heyday to appreciate his music (I was only 4 or 5 when “Thriller” came out) when he truly ruled the pop world. The freak show he has been for the last 15 years has been truly sad considering the man he once was. I wish to remember him for the truly great star he was in his youth, before the last crazy decade and a half. The great music he made should really be his legacy.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:36 am
@warrrreagl (166):
Sorry, but I don’t buy that argument. Yes indeed, art is art and if you want to buy it or look at it or listen to it or would rather toss it in the trashcan, that’s everybody’s own individual lookout and that’s that. But what you’re really saying is that there’s no use or value to criticism and consideration of quality in art, (and music, even pop music, is a form of art) and that no one should talk about it. This is rubbish.
I can listen to Michael Jackson and Otis Redding and hear the difference in quality, intelligence, taste and innate creative talent. I can read Steinbeck and Joyce and can discern the same differences. Or I can look at a Caravaggio and a Thomas Kincaid and SEE the same.
Skill is not talent, nor is craftsmanship. It’s true that not all talent is equivalent, but neither is it equal.
“Ranking” is not really what this is about. It’s about value of the individual artist—regardless of comparisons to OTHER artists. In MY opinion–and let’s face it, I’m far from alone in this—Michael Jackson’s talent was monstrously overhyped and exaggerated by a media and a public who wanted to build a ready-made pop hero. He was talented in some ways yes, but most of his music amounts to nothing more than fantastically sophisticated pop drivel. And in fact he was ALWAYS like that.
Stating this is not wrong nor is it unreasonable. It’s what criticism and discernment is all about.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:39 am
@warrrreagl (165): Thank you Warrr…I think you have hit it on the head. I thought that music is what soothed the savage beast…and that you never discuss religion and politics at the table.
@Lifeschool (113): Wow, so you know about the underground habitat in the antartctic too. OOoooh.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Baxter:
“I don’t see why not. Popularity is largely democratic,”
Artistry is not.
“and I think his talents spoke for themselves.”
and yet the only talent of his you’ve managed to really get behind thus far is his choreography skills. He was a singer, songwriter and musician. Yet so far you and others here have only admitted to his skills as an “entertainer.” In short, he put on a good show. Yes he did. But this in fact makes my point for me. He was more “show” than substance.
““How was he better than Jackie Wilson? Marvin Gaye? Sam Cooke? Otis Redding?”
He was a better dancer than any of them.”
An incredibly ridiculous answer. We’re talking about his MUSIC here… not how much he could shake it onstage or in a video.
“What of it? Picasso was a better painter than Stephen Hawking.”
And what kind of a retarded point is that supposed to be? Redding, Gaye, Wilson, etc. were all MUSICAL ARTISTS… as was Jackson. That’s not comparing “apples to oranges” but in fact it is the clearest example of apples to apples.
“Because talent and enjoyment are objective, not subjective. Quite.”
Enjoyment is subjective. Talent is much less so.
“Compared how? Compared as a voice? Yes. Compared for presentation? Yes, most of the time. Compared as a showman and a dancer? No.”
So you’re resting the bulk of his reputation on his showmanship and dancing skills. And you can’t see how this diminishes him, then, as an artist. In fact it does, and I agree with it—he is diminished and ought to be so. He was a great dancer and showman. He was NOT deserving of the accolades he received for his music.
“The fact that I can acknowledge a talented individual does not mean I’ve been brainwashed.”
In fact it does, if the only thing you can really cite about him as clearly positive, clearly superlative, is his dancing skill and showmanship. He was obviously supposed to be much more than that, but even you can only recognize that. And yet you continue with this pointless debate as though there’s more. There isn’t–or at any rate there’s very little. Even you admit it, but refuse to see it.
“And where exactly has this ‘fawning adoration’ been seen in the last 15 years? Absolutely nowhere.”
Bullshit. Jackson has never ceased to be a media product in one form or another. The focus on him, yes, has risen and fallen—but that’s something else entirely.
“I didn’t say he was the greatest talent in 30 years. When you start to make stuff up, then that’s when you start reaching, sir.”
I never said that YOU said that. YOU are, however, defending the lumpen consensus amongst the deluded and uninformed, and the groveling-at-the-feet media, that Jackson was someone truly deserving of the accolades that have been heaped on him the last 30 years.
And if you’re NOT defending that—then what the hell are we arguing about?
“Nope. Aside from the albums which more people have historically bought more of than those of any other artist apart from Elvis and the Beatles.”
AND AGAIN—FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME—POPULARITY DOES *NOT* EQUAL ARTISTIC VALUE!!!!
Yes, sometimes a very, very popular artist also happens to be very, very good. But OFTENTIMES—more often than not—lousy artists are also extremely popular. And great artists gain very little popularity. That you continue to fail to admit this or recognize it shows that you’re just being obstinately evasive—since this point would clearly negate some of your standing.
The fact that Michael Jackson has sold millions of records means only so much—in some cases very little—to his actual value as an artist. MANY artists have done very well in terms of sales only to be crap, and/or to be totally forgotten in time. We live in an age of hype and excess, and so Jackson was hyped to the levels he was. Was he truly better than, say… a Barry Manilow? Perhaps. He sold a few more records. But is that really what you’d base his value on? No.
““Oh, so that’s the measure of his talent now? His choreography?”
Yeah, that’s right Randall. I’ll bet with the right choreography you would really light up the stage. The ability to dance well is not a talent. Baryshnikov? Some twat in tights.”
This is RIDICULOUS. See my point earlier.
“The music speaks for itself. Millions of people around the world enjoy it, and yes, still listen to it.”
And again, I will say that in time this will diminish. The value simply is not there. Millions of people have BOUGHT his records. Millions of people buy lots of things. That does not mean they will continue to do so or that his value is assured.
“So what? You’re a product of the baby boomer generation, right? Should I hold that against you?”
In fact I’m not. I told you I was born in 1965. That is not “baby boomer.”
“By what scale are you measuring worthlessness? Sales – approaching a billion units sold. Monetary value? We know the guy had money because he blew almost all of it.”
It’s telling that these are the first things you go to—not quality of artistry–but sales and money. And that’s ALL you mention.
No, Baxter, I DON’T measure artistic value by those things. Apparently you DO. In that, you are ridiculously WRONG.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Baxter:
“You were there. You didn’t like it. Ergo – Jacko bad.”
No, Baxter. I was there to see the hype and the overexaggeration of what he had to offer. That is what I meant, and I made this clear.
But if you want to get down to it, in fact, it’s clear also that I am far, FAR more discerning than YOU, who can repeatedly ONLY bring up Jackson’s abilities to dance, sell records, and make money. And nothing else. And yet you persist in this pointless argument that he was somehow due this great tidal wave of adoration that was heaped on him. And you offer no support for it—you just argue with me about it.
““Again, no shit, Baxter. That the media is capricious and will turn on its own creations ought to be no surprise. The idea is to sell product. Jackson was a product whether he was sold as “good” or “bad.””
But that isn’t a “fawning media”.”
You’re now simply playing at games. The media as a whole has made PRODUCT out of Jackson from day one. Some of it has at times fawned on him, some of it has at times attacked him when there was something to attack. But a fawning, celebrity-worshiping media is what made him into this bloated celebrity in the first place.
“Calling him a paedophile for 15 years is not “adoration”. I don’t dispute that he was sold. So what? So was Elvis. So were the Beatles.”
And again, all you can do is offer up these meaningless associations—well it was done to Elvis and the Beatles–so that means nothing! Rubbish. Yes, Elvis and the Beatles were sold—but they were much MORE than that, or at least the Beatles certainly were. Jackson was NOT.
““And by the way… do I take it from your tone that you excuse his alleged paedophilia? That you dismiss the charges?”
Not at all. I think he was a pervert. Doesn’t detract from his talent.”
But it MAY, in time, color his reputation and memory, if his music does not stand the test of time and survive—which is what I was saying. People here were whining about the impropriety of posting a list like this—when the entire point is, here is a guy who did ridiculous, weird, and perhaps even criminal things–to EXCESS–and yet, what? We’re now supposed to hallow his memory without mentioning any of that? And why? Because we must buy the hype that insists he was much more of an artist than he actually was? No. That’s where we should refuse.
““You are claiming that you actually base the health of Western culture on how they report on and look back on the life of a pop star?”
I base it on a lot of stuff.”
Funny, that’s all you brought up or mentioned.
“Is cultural history of no interest to you?”
Of course. But to me a reaction of this type to Jackson is by no means a “sign of the decline of civilization.” To my way of thinking, it shows that some people aren’t willing to just BUY whatever celebrity is rammed down their throats. That’s a GOOD sign, perhaps.
“You make a good point – shit talent does sell. The difference is that everyone seems to be willing that he had talent whether they enjoy the music or not – except you.”
I remind you that I NEVER said that Jackson had NO talent and in fact have acknowledged that he DID have some. What *I* have been saying is that he did NOT have the talent equal to the absurd amounts of accolade and hype which have attended him for years.
““A) I never denied Jackson had SOME talent. Rather, I questioned that he ever had the HUGE, galactic-sized talent people have made him out to have.”
I think he had ‘it’.”
Well, good for you. You have yet to define what that “it” is, or what made him thus so great. The only thing you’ve cited is his ability to dance, put on a show, and make money.
““B) on what would you base the claim that he HAD some great, huge talent earlier on? On what specifically? What great artistic contribution did he make that placed him in such lofty heights?”
Beats me.”
And there it is right there.
A) You just admitted that you don’t know and can’t say what it is.
B) You repeatedly only refer to his money-making, record-selling… and oh yes, his dancing.
C) You fail to see how this simply makes you yet another deluded softhead who bought into the hype.
You want to like his music? Fine for you. More power to you. I liked some of it too, though not much. But it stops right there. Beyond that, you need to say WHY he was deserving of this monumental hype and honor. What, artistically, did he do to truly earn it?
You are, in fact, one of the so-called “brainwashed” that you claimed, earlier, you were not one of.
“But whatever it is, it guaranteed his popularity alongside the pantheon of other greats whom he will go down in history aside – Elvis, the Beatles, et al.”
BULLSHIT. All it’s done is assured that he has been a symbol of hype and media blitzing. We shall see, in time, if his music truly survives and maintains the hold on the pop-culture mind the way the music of the Beatles and Elvis has. I maintain that it won’t. JACKSON will be remembered—as a media character, a pop star, a figure. But it is all hollow. His actual MUSIC, his actual talent—is not up to holding the bubble at the heights it rose to.
““Yes I would, Baxter—because unlike you, I recognize that there is a polarity of difference between an artist’s or actor’s true contributions and the CELEBRITY that has been built up and inflated around him.”
Let me tell you something – I had never even heard of Jack Nicholson when I first saw the Shining. I thought he was a golfer. Still, his performance blew me away. So tell me sir, how did his celebrity manage to seep into my conciousness and work its black magic?”
Well, offhand I’d say you’re not terribly smart and are not terribly discerning. How’s that? Because while I thought The Shining was a very good movie and Nicholson did a decent job, he did not “blow me away.” Rather, he shamefully overacted and hammed it up—as he has often done since early in his career.
“Or is it possible that you are so full of yourself that you cannot tell the difference between an artist with no talent and an artist you don’t like?”
In fact, Baxter, I can. Readily. What’s clear is, you can’t tell the difference between value—and hype.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
@Enoooo (155): No, I don’t think a Top 10 of his albums would work, either. I still suggest a memorial list of those who died to give them all a fair share (not “Top 10 Deaths of 2009″ that’s just tacky). Any takers to create a memorial list? I might, but I can’t guarantee it…
June 26th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
R.I.P. micky
and as far as RANDALL AND BAXTER god damn can you all stick to small comments reading all that makes me tired.
Good list J
June 26th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
@Chineapplepunk (170): Well, someone would read it!
— And I love your name!
June 26th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
oops mikey
June 26th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
dont like MJ, never had, never will. not a fan of most his songs, and honestly, hes just a weird dude. im still gonna be here 2 say RIP and for all of u who r saying this list shouldnt have been put on here, just shut up, plz. He was a weird dude. If you want 2 make a top 10 of his songs or whatnot, then stop complaining and do it
RIP
June 26th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
randall: i have been wondering where you have been lately. obviously, you have been storing up for this back and forth with baxter. welcome back.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
DiscHuker:
Thanks much. I just haven’t had much to comment on lately—some good lists, but nothing that interested me.
And believe me, I’d rather NOT have to deal with someone like Baxter… but I should have expected it.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Tomorrows list should be “Top Ten Michael Jackson Songs”
June 26th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
163 ames801
June 26th, 2009 at 10:29 am
hey man you too,
Im just saying that ofcourse the system isnt perfect, as long as we decide to keep it in place, we better play by those rules. IE someone is innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law, which I prefer to any other kind of system to be honest.
June 26th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Top 10 Scandalous Moments??? Thats your list today, of all days?? Really?
The guy just died. He is a legend. Have some respect.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
people need to show some goddamn respect…the man may have been ‘weird’ but he had more talent in his pinky toe when he was 10 than ANY so-called ‘musician’ has nowadays. at least he’s not carbon-copied…he could have ended up being another friggin’ 50-cent or usher or some other black guy who only raps about hyphy bitches and hoes and such.
RIP michael…and farrah fawcett and ed mcmahon.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
I can’t say I’m not just a tiny bit disappointed. I wasn’t really checking out other media’s tributes because I was hoping for a nice tribute list here on LV. I’ll give you credit though, JFrater, you were a lot nicer in your criticism than most everyone else was. And after all, this is YOUR site so I’m glad you did what YOU wanted. Still, I’m a little bummed to find there was no list with all the hits. I wonder if the comments would have exploded with debate over which was the “best” MJ song.
I believe Warrrreagl hit the nail on the head in comment #166. It’d be nice if we could just listen to music and enjoy it for what it is and share it with each other instead of trying to act like we know everything about it.
I like what I like, regardless of what the critics and the charts say, and I should hope everyone else does too. (Likes what they like, I should say, not what I like, unless they want to.) That goes for music, art, clothing, books, whatever. Why do we place so much value on the opinions of others when it comes to things like this?
And FFS when are people going to learn not to argue with Randall? *shakes head*
June 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Randall, I read one and a half of your last two responses to me and I think our respective points can be summed up thusly:
You don’t believe that Jackson’s skill as a dancer and a showman adds up to much of a talent. And you don’t think that there is artistry in his music. His popularity is based not on the public’s enjoyment of and appreciation for his music, but rather because he was a media cow. And, correct me if I’m wrong, you argue that because he wasn’t a great artist, he should be judged more for his bizarre personal life than for his mediocre music.
I on the other hand think that in judging a pop musician, like Elvis, like the Beatles or like Michael Jackson, it is worth noting what their act was based on. To ignore Jackson as a showman and a dancer would therefore be to overlook his talents as a performer. The vinyl is not the be-all and end-all of an artist’s product. Jackson’s talent as a showman alone puts him on a par with Elvis – the reason I make this connection is due to their undisputed status as pop icons – and I do think that there is artistry in his music. I think his enduring popularity and phenomenal record sales have been due to a popular democratic sensation as much as it was due to his ubiquity in the media.
You don’t like him. I get it. You don’t like the media. I get that too. But your critical opinion of him does not necessarily mean that his *media* image should be what the world focuses on in the wake of his death. That is the point I have been trying to make today above all others.
Feel free to correct me if I have misrepresented your views in any way.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Destiny, #187 – that’s the most sensible comment I’ve read all day!
Night y’all.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
I’m not saying I’m happy he died, but I can never forgive someone who abuses children. It’s not something those kids will ever be able to forget.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Dammit, curiosity got the better of me…
“Well, offhand I’d say you’re not terribly smart and are not terribly discerning. How’s that? Because while I thought The Shining was a very good movie and Nicholson did a decent job, he did not “blow me away.” Rather, he shamefully overacted and hammed it up—as he has often done since early in his career.”
Nicholson’s scenes in that movie before he goes nuts are wonderfully charismatic works of subtlety. Nicholson can say more in one raised eyebrow than you can in one of you patented 1000-word diatribes.
June 26th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
am i the only one picking up the irony when some blasts jayfray for being “disrespectful” by cursing him, calling him names and making veiled threats?
June 26th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
He’s moonwalking in heaven right now….
June 26th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
@anne(193): you don’t know that for a fact. it’s very likely that the parents of these children that befriended michael simply saw an opportunity to get money. some people will do anything to get money. the parent of a boy named jordan chandler was recorded saying “If I go through with this, I win big-time. There’s no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever…Michael’s career will be over” shortly AFTER his friendship with michael broke down.
p.s. comment #195 made me wanna clarify that my last comment was aimed at some of the comments and people in general and not jfrater. =)
June 26th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Oh please, how is this an “alternative” list considering this is all we heard about him about up until his death?
This is no better than a bloody tabloid magazine or any typical media outlet.
June 26th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
I do not believe that there was any mal intent with this list nor do I believe it was an attempt to capitalize on his death to get more hits as has been claimed.
Furthermore, I do believe it was brought up as an alternative and this is stuff we already kind of knew.
However I must say it was although I was not a fan of Michael as a person, and only mildly liked his music, I do believe it was bad judgement to post a negative list about someone who just died, regardless of anyones bias for or against him. This also is not coming from a religious point of view since i dont believe in any of that, however I dont think bashing someone recently dead is appropriate. None the less I still love the site and dont have to agree with everything right?
June 26th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Im afraid michael jackson wont be remembered for his music. Yes he was a weirdo and pedophile but he wrote incredible music. We lost a great artist in MJ, just not a great human being.
RIP
June 26th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
The crotch grab is so annoying and overused by hip hop/R&B artists, even when it doesn’t at all fit in with their dance routine.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
200 Looser
June 26th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
I think you’re wrong. I think in 100 years people will still remember thriller. but hey, no one knows so we’re just gonna have to wait and see.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
@(fake)jfrater (203): Nice try, imposter. You seem to be missing something vital that goes with the name…that would be the avatar.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
R.I.P Michael. You will be missed by many. <33
June 26th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
He may be dead but his music will live on forever!!!
June 26th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
This is my second time posting on this site, and im just going to come out and say it- Baxter has no life. Who writes and essay defending someone? clearly Baxter sits on his ASS all day long eating a steady diet of cheetos and mountain dew wondering how the hair on his head slowly fell out, and began to grow on excessivly on other places on his body. He also wonders were the smell of rotting cheese is coming from, and why he is stuck in his mom’s basement. Its because you have no life Baxter, get a job
June 26th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
@(fake)jfrater (206): The picture is missing….so I highly doubt it. But nice try.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Wow, Michael Jackson is more controversial than sex!
June 26th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Randall, it’s not an argument, man. And we’re not laying pipe. It’s music, man.
As Mr. Keating taught us, greatness is not a dry product of perfection and importance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UuVC_kUZQ
It’s music, man.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
RIP<3
June 26th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Farrah’s friends and family should see this as a blessing in disguise; her funeral will not be a media circus now.
June 26th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Yall remember when he was to appear live at the Motown Music Awards and when his limo rolled up to the red carpet and he was getting out, the valet accidently slammed the door on his hand?
To make matters worse it was his gloved hand!
He was in terrible pain, to say the least. They ushered him quickly inside and tried to lower the massive swelling.
You know,
The Show Goes On.
So anyway, he was back stage with his hand in a bucket of ice and the curtain went up and he went out and gave one hella performance. He was so cool and professional despite it all and you could hardly tell that there was anything wrong with his hand.. because he’s Michael Jackson, you know?
Later on, I heard that there were hushes in the audience that night and rumor of scandal in the air, but I say “pshaw”!
June 26th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
I never really cared for MJ or his music all that much, but i can not deny how iconic the man was. You should have made a list of his best songs or something. I was surprised and sort of annoyed at this list! It could at least have spoke more positively about. Why focus on the negative so much?
June 26th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Thank Christ for this list.
I am sick sick sick to death of seeing how this arrogant attention seeking moron is being gushed over as if he was perfection. He wasn’t. This list is a dose of REALITY. It is ALL true. The guy was flawed and dubious. But peoples attention spans are way too short and one needs to be brought back down to Earth.
I have ne thing to say to all Jacko fans here. He is Dead. Get over it. Life goes on. There are far more important things in life that need time and attention. He is DEAD. Nothing can bring him back. We all have to move on and worry about today and tomorrow.
I’m deadly serious here but I think this might result in the Swine Flu pandemic killing more people than it should because they’re too busy worrying and thinking about Jacko instead of themselves. The media will NOT leave this story alone and as they gush overtime over Jacko, you just watch those swine flu cases rise…
June 26th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
p.s.
I think the scandal rumors had something to do with him stuffing his glove with socks, if I remember right.
“Oh, How could he do such a thing!?”
“It’s not decent!”
June 26th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
MJ was more than great. He was an Icon that set the bar too high for most to even imagine. I loved his music, dancing….everything. I met him and his brothers once in Detroit. He was actually a real person. While he will be long remembered as The King of Pop, this site along with opportunist assholes like Jfrater and long winded bores like Randall will soon fade back into their own silent little worlds of internet pseudo grandeur and self gratifying pats their own backs (or backsides).
The King is Dead! Long Live The King of Pop! The Greatest Entertainer to ever Live! Michael Jackson!!!
June 26th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
SHUT UP ZAB.
OMG get over yourself like srsly!
Michael meant alot to alot of people. The world is in mourning. Have abit of respect.
Also this list was tasteless. People fail to realise that Michael was a humanitarian…how many people here can say they’ve given a great percentage of their money to charity? Didnt think so.
ALSO Michael was found unanimously innocent on trial for child molestation and the other case was settled out of court. How many parents would accept money OUT of court if their children were molested? If it were me I’d want them taken down. Funny how none of them were heard of again in such high profile cases. It’s obvious they were money hungry bastards who saw an opportunity.
I’d do your research first before you judge an innocent man.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
I think its sad. not even because he died, just because… its a sad story. I don’t mean this to sound terrible, but almost feel relieved for him. I hope from the bottom of my heart that he R.I.P.
June 26th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
@Abi (217): I’d do your research first before you judge an innocent man.
Here’s some research for you:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0625091jackson1.html
June 26th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
I love you guys.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
So a legend like Michael dies tragically and all this site can do to mark his passing is dredge up ten scandals about him. I guess there is no reason for the public outpouring of emotion over his death – he was all about being “wacko” right? While we are at it, why not create a list about how fat and drug addicted Elvis Presley was, and publish it on the anniversary of his death?
Right now, this moment, will be the point where I stop visiting this site.
To Michael Jackson ….Rest In Peace.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Give me a break. You couldn’t have done a positive list? Michael Jackson was the best selling artist of all time. He was known for his genius at song writing and dancing, and really helped to establish music videos as an art form. His videos were inspiration to future musicians and set the standard for how they should be done – with thoughtfulness, meaning, and a story.
Here are some ideas: Top 10 Michael Jackson songs; top ten MJ videos; Top 10 MJ performances; Top 10 musical artists influenced by MJ
But you guys had to be trashy. So fucking lame. He’s been dead for a DAY and you had to go this route? Fucking. Lame.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Rest in peace Michael. You were the best entertainer of all time and it is a tragedy your legacy is tarnished by all those lawsuits.
This list is downright disgusting. Saying this is a tribute of any kind is insulting.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Michael Jackson: A little bit of talent, WAY too much hype, a money grubbing, power hungry, mind-bending, domineering father (Joe Jackson), and an endless supply of leeches who were too scared for their cushy jobs to tell him “NO!” to every insane (and illegal) thing that popped into his warped brain. Oh, and of course, the fans: the people who bought into the hype and provided him with the millions of dollars he needed to act out his perverted Peter Pan fantasies and buy the affections of little boys and pay off their pimping parents to keep their mouths shut. Michael Jackson had everything BUT someone who actually gave a damn about his mental, physical, and spiritual well-being. No one, it seems, did. So go on and buy up his CD’s and light candles and have a good cry. It’s easier than looking at the “Man In The Mirror” and saying “What the hell were we thinking?”
June 26th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
A tragic life of never having a normal childhood, a true Peter Pan, who I think was always trying to recapture that which he missed. RIP Michael, you inspired many and will be remembered for your talent.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
I also did not like this list. You wouldn’t have had to do his greatest songs, but what about performances or just great moments in general or something. I like to learn stuff from the lists, but these are all things we know about. There’s plenty of people who don’t know about all the good things though. Anyone can pick up a magazine and see the bad shit someone does. How often and easily can we see the good things people do. Anyway, RIP Jackson and Fawcett of course, and bring on the good lists!
June 26th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
this list is disappointing. oh well.. RIP MJ! your music will live on.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
I understand that you were trying to do a different kind of list but I would have prefferred (sp?) a list on “lesser known facts of michael jackson” or something. People already know all about this stuff.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
REST IN PEACE MICHAEL JACKSON <3
this…is so depressing…michael jackson was my main music the last summer i spent at my old house…the best summer of my life so far…michael jackson brings back soo many memories of that time (like listening to billie jean on repeat all night in a hut in my back yard with my sister and best friend alex) this is very unfortunate and people really need to get over all the lame ass jokes they are forwarding to people.
sorry for rambling on!
June 26th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
people- there are always two sides in a coin, get over it
MJ was great, but he’s not exactly squeaky clean.
want fanboy adoration? go visit other sites, i’m just glad this list came out- to balance out the stupor on all the misplaced adoration some extreme MJ fans have been expressing as of late
All that said, MJ was a great entertainer, but he was not perfect- he had his flaws
and like it or not, you’ll have to take the bad, along with good… sheesh…
June 26th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
ok, let’s get serious. so many of you, and around the world, have said that michael jackson was an “inspiration”.
tell me, what did he actually inspire you to do? not just in theory. what did you actually do in direct response to the life lived by jackson?
June 26th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Hmmm… I smell another entry in the “most commented” and “most controversial” lists
June 26th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
MJ is dead, and i prefer Chris Cornell’s Billie Jean. But hey, Optimus Prime lives!
June 26th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Okay MJ wasn’t perfect but you can’t deny that he was not talented. The ppl that say he had “mediocre talent” are probably talentless themselves. MJ was quirky but he deserves the tributes for his efforts.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
sorry I wanted to add something else but I got cut off. At least he contributed to charities and made songs for humanitarian eorts. Not like most selfish entertainers.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
a better question… will you let your young kid, young cousin, young sister, etc stay alone with MJ (when he was not yet pushing up daisies) in his Neverland ranch… unsupervised…. for more than 24 hours? >:)
June 26th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
@corinthian430- My answer would be no. In fact, I would not let my child be unsupervised with a person I didn’t know regardless of fame.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
What Miles Davis said about pop music as social music:- You take out what you want and leave what you don’t like…
ya know, like food.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
I’m pretty surprised about people’s reactions to this list.
This is what we all focused on for the later part of his life.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Hey Jfrater, picture this: A top ten list published the day after you die on a high-traffic, otherwise awesome, website titled “Jfrater’s Top 10 Douchebag Moments”.
Although this is your website and you can publish what you want, i would like to believe that there is at least a little bit of sensitivity in everyone especially during such a tragic moment. I guess listverse isn’t too different from most media outlets who spin momentous events into scandal just to get a bump in web traffic. Frankly, im a bit dissapointed.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
I agree with zuh (197). No one but Michael and the supposed victims know for sure what happened. People do file false reports for the potential monetary gain. I think the family in the 2005 case just took advantage of his past allegations – it made their claims seem more realistic. He was vulnernable. Don’t be so gullible. For all I know he COULD have molested kids, but that’s the thing, none of us know. I thought the outrage of the public when he was acquitted was ridiculous. If you didn’t see him molest anyone, you can’t say he’s guilty.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
This has nothing to do with political convictions or being wound up tight, this is just about poor taste and callousness. This site always went out of their way to make it known that they strongly disliked Michael Jackson, but to stoop this low, and then have the nerve to try and insult our intelligence by labeling it as a tribute, is something I wouldn’t have expected. There were far most tactful and appropriate lists you could have opted for as a token of “tribute”, you could have even just not acknowledge the death given your negative perception of him towards him, but instead you still took the douche bag route. I’ve been a loyal contributor to you guys for a while, but this was just plain fucked up, and fuck you for that. I’d rather not associate myself anymore.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
and its sad that people obviously let his public persona manipulate their perception of his music. Randall said MJ has “only very few worthy hits”.. is this clown serious? or just seriously retarded? I was never a “fan” myself, but even I’m not so stubborn, ignorant, and emotionally based as to say an absurd and outrageous claim. Thank god you do obviously dont speak for anybody but yourself.
June 26th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
When my mom told me about it, I was like what? I was so surprised. Farrah too, even though she had cancer and all, but on the same day?
I always get weirded out when famous people die. We see them as like, immortal. But then we get a slap in the face that shows us there not.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
who is michael jackson???
June 26th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
@huh? (247):
He’s La Toya’s alter ego :p
June 26th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
The more I looked, the more I agreed with the ‘bump in web traffic’ comment. I don’t get why some are saying you can easily find all his positives on tv or in a search on google. Like I said, this is nothing new. Everyone knows this same old bullshit. Being someone that never got to see him at a concert, and was definitely not alive during his Thriller years, TELL ME SOMETHING I DON’T KNOW.
Hello, if your poll is correct, 62% of Listverse users are under 20 years old. It’s not like we don’t know this shit; we lived it. We didn’t live the damn 70s and 80s though.
Obviously this list wasn’t made with good intentions. I’m stuck on the 80s, but I was born in 90. So it would have been nice to read a list that actually required thought, searching, time, etc. Surprise us, come up with a good idea. Isn’t that the point of this website? I mean, come on. I could have put this list together in 20 minutes.
We don’t want a ‘nice’ list. That’s boring. We want scandal! — Whatever. Times like this call for respect imo. I’m sure you’d want the same for yourself.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
@kay(246):
I too would have been suprised except that I was aware that sometimes people die from cancer.
Also, just so you know, celebrities are not immortal, only god is (if he were real that is).
In summation, next time you comment please try harder…..or just give up.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
http://listverse.com/2007/10/03/top-10-bestselling-albums/
http://listverse.com/2008/01/26/top-10-celebrities-who-destroyed-their-reputation/
http://listverse.com/2008/03/16/top-10-worst-dolls-ever/
http://listverse.com/2007/10/29/top-10-child-singers/
http://listverse.com/2007/10/15/top-10-most-entertaining-music-videos/
http://listverse.com/2007/08/25/top-10-cool-dance-videos/
http://listverse.com/2009/03/31/10-rock-acts-that-sabotaged-their-careers/
http://listverse.com/2007/09/29/15-great-albums-of-the-eighties/
FYI, this site is not an MJ fansite, here he’s been described as cool, queer, amazing, revolutionary, weird, wacko… name it
If you want to shower adulation and hallelujahs on your idol- while remaining ignorant of his darker aspects- then you’re better off browsing another site.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Ugh, how disappointing. Lost a little respect for the site i’ve read religiously for so many years.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
WTF..is this
This is total disrespect for MJ. How dare you
June 26th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
I can’t believe that he is dead. I saw the news on yahoo and I coudn’t believe my eyes. I thought yahoo was pulling somekind of a prank but it was true. So Rest In Peace MJ.!
June 26th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Easy to isloate and poke fun at people who are in the spotlight. Better to look into your own life.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
JFrater: I’m a huge fan of your site. This list does not change this. I do think that perhaps this list may have been a little too soon considering that his music meant so much to so many people. Perhaps a list of his accomplishments would have been a little more appropriate, although I do understand your reasons for not posting one.
Much like many of these people, I would have preferred a more celebratory list; however, I think that perhaps many of these people are being too harsh.
I am an enormous MJ fan. Always will be. I grew up to his music.
RIP Michael
June 27th, 2009 at 1:26 am
wow. Yeah, i’ll be waiting for another MJ list. A positive one. I dont want to remember Michael Jackson for his mistakes and scandals. I want to remember him for his contributions in music.
I’m just so sad that he didn’t even got the chance to return to his music career. He was about to start his concert tour next month in London. And He was about to start rehearsing with Charice Pempengco next week.
R.I.P Michael Jackson
Again, i’ll be counting on a next MJ list. I guess his top songs.
Nice List though Jamie.
I just wish that if ever a great new artist pops out, he will never be called as “The Next Michael Jackson” because no one can be. Michael is a Legend.
June 27th, 2009 at 1:30 am
I’ve visited this site for a while now, but I’ve never commented, but this has driven me to it. All of these people saying “aw, I’ll never visit this site again” or “I’m ashamed to be associated with this site” need to get over themselves.
MJ was a human being, and he was extremely flawed. Yes, he had his hits, but he also had these quirks. People are saying “be respectful”, and I say JFrater is being respectful by not letting these things slip by. It’s good to have a contrast to the almost 100% positive crap that’s being blasted by the media about this guy. When you make mistakes they follow you even after death, and no amount of celebrity should erase them. He was not worthy of your worship.
June 27th, 2009 at 1:32 am
Farrah Faucet’s death didn’t received much attention because ALMOST all sadness went to Michael Jackson.
I kind of feel sad about that. R.I.P too Farrah Faucet.
June 27th, 2009 at 1:35 am
its bad… i know it…now he can do a duet with elvis.
June 27th, 2009 at 1:37 am
People have said or written about Jackson’s lifestyle, including building Neverland, being compensation for his deprived childhood. So how come his siblings didn’t do the same?
June 27th, 2009 at 2:22 am
i believe MJ suffered from anorexia.. he’s thin.. maybe his medications had caused it too..
June 27th, 2009 at 3:35 am
MJ a ‘mutant’: French press
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Lifestyle/Story/STIStory_396135.html
June 27th, 2009 at 3:37 am
The dancing inmates in the Philippines would have never gained fame if MJ never did “Thriller” in the first place.
June 27th, 2009 at 3:40 am
Jacko’s death sparks brawl
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Lifestyle/Story/STIStory_396059.html
excerpt:
The unidentified bus driver opined that ‘Michael Jackson should have been in jail long ago,’ prompting Mr Kiernan, 60, to retort that ‘the world just lost a great musical talent,’ the police report said.
It said the last remark enraged another passenger, Henry Wideman, who started a swearing match with Mr Kiernan, then pulled out a knife and chased Mr Kiernan down the aisle with it…
June 27th, 2009 at 3:42 am
@Suomynona (264):
The dancing inmates in the Philippines (as well as their jailers) are just plain attention whores.
They would have danced to any catchy tune.
June 27th, 2009 at 4:02 am
One cannot deny his impact upon pop music.
I am here in Kuwait and even the Arab channels are
boarding saturation….you’d think they’d have other
things to worry about than a dead pedophile.
Born a black man, died a white woman. Damn.
June 27th, 2009 at 4:19 am
I am in India, and every TV news channel, in every language is broadcasting MJ for the last 30hrs.
@Matt1224 : “Born a black man, died a white woman.”
Well said bro.
June 27th, 2009 at 4:42 am
Thanks Eric. The real issue is: What Do We Learn From This?
I will never be so presumptioius to tell anyone what to learn about this nonsense…if you can operate a keyboard, you can presumptively decide that for yourself. Thanks.
June 27th, 2009 at 5:44 am
RIP… i hope you’ll also be remembered for your music
June 27th, 2009 at 9:30 am
I’ve been reading a few blogs/tweets where people obviously dislike him, but straight-up have no respect for him or his family during this time. People sometimes believe going against the grain combined with social media is trendy, giving them an edge. We must be careful not to use a faceless Internet as an excuse to abandon humanism, respect and dignity.
For my bit on Jackson’s death:
http://hellouniverse.wordpress.com/
June 27th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I don’t care anything about his scandalous whatever, especially about the molestation thing. I don’t believe in any of those.
Michael Jackson will always be in our hearts. R.I.P. Micky – from Jenna your greatest fan of all time. You are the King of Pop in millions of years…
June 27th, 2009 at 10:46 am
This list honestly offends me…Arguably the greatest entertainer dies, and instead of focusing on the music he has brought us from age 5 to 50, you want to be a complete asshole and make a list still bashing him….I am so done with this site and i hope this makes you feel like a better person
June 27th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Diogenes~~ Your link on 212 made me spit Budwieser on my keyboard.
I laughed all the way through. Very cool and not disparaging.
When I was young the Jackson 5 were the foshizzle. I loved them (I also loved Gilligans Island,The Beverly Hillbillys and Green Acres). Having said that,when I got older and discovered Ozzy…
Anyway MJ was a public figure and with that comes all the trappings. This list is just the beginning of more to follow.
He was scandalous so quit hating on JF.
He was also a unique and deserved talent.
RIP.
June 27th, 2009 at 11:01 am
hello
I´m very sad beacause he is death
what a crazy life don´t you think??
hehehe
thanks for this
it´s very cool
June 27th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Hey,where is the Generals new list ? 436 comments on the last one ain`t bad,so what`s up.
June 27th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Okay for the people that are for the list: How is this an “alternative” list when people have been regurgitating this stuff all day on all news stations. If jfrater really wanted to be different from the rest, he would’t have made an MJ list at all. Sorry to say but I feel like he was just seeking website hits. I’ve just discovered listverse a few weeks ago, and I liked the fact that the lists were quirky and cool. I’m disappointed to see that you went mainstream.
June 27th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
How about a positive list?
Forbes mag #1 Entertainer of the Year TWICE, ETs Most Important Entertainer of Decade & TWO stars on Hollywood Walk/Fame
He has been awarded a Dutch Music Factory, two Danish Grammy, Crystal Globe & Ebony Magazine’s Black Achievement awards
He has won a Bollywood Award for Humanitarian endeavors, 2 Cable Ace, 4 Canadian Black Music & 11 Cashbox Awards…
He has won 17 German-language Bravo Magazine awards, 2 Brazillian TVZ Awards, 2 BRE Awards, 7 BRIT Awards, 3 British Awards…
He has supported Rotary Club of Australia, Society of Singers, Starlight Foundation, The Carter Center’s Atlanta Project…
He has has supported Love Match, Make-A-Wish Foundation, Minority Aids Project, Motown Museum, NAACP, National Rainbow Coalition
He has supported Dreamstreet Kids, Dreams Come True Charity, Elizabeth Taylor Aids Foundation, Juvenile Diabetes Foundation
He has supported Cities & Schools Scholarship Fund, Community Youth Sports & Arts Foundation, Cong’l Black Caucus, Dakar Foundation
He has supported the AIDS Project L.A., American Cancer Society, Angel Food, Big Brothers of Greater Los Angeles, Childhelp USA
He has opened Michael Jackson Burn Center, Heal The World Foundation & gave millions to charities to help alcohol & drug abusers.
He earned over a BILLION dollars during his lifetime and donated more than $300 MILLION dollars to various charities.
Michael Jackson was the first African-American star on MTV.
There where real Crips & Bloods in the Beat It video. The gang members where so impressed & in awe of Michael that they stayed peaceful & didn’t fight during the entire shoot. Also, the guy in the all white is Michael Peters. He did the choreography for Beat It & Thriller & he won a Tony for choreographing the Broadway version of Dreamgirls.
Michael wouldn’t perform Dirty Diana while in the UK because he didn’t want to offend Princess Diana. Di told him it was actually one of her favorite songs.
I Just Can’t Stop Loving You was supposed to be a duet between Michael & Whitney Houston.
June 27th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Who cares about a nonsense list like this??
Dude, I hope when you die people do not list all the mess you have done in your own life and laugh at you.
You appear not to have any respect for the dead. You will die someday too, lets see how it shapes out for you.
June 27th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Really, do we need a negative list? How about a list of MJ’s greatest moments, or greatest songs, records broken, or charities he contributed to? Granted he had his issues later in life but he gave more to the world then most other entertainers.
I was hoping for a good list about him. Just imagine having your life always in the spotlight from an early age, 5 like MJ, until your death of 50. What kind of normal life can you possibly lead?
June 27th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Over the last few days I’ve been struck by how few Michael Jackson songs I actually know. I looked at the chronology and found that he hit the mega-time just after I moved to my state capital city to study classical music at university and discovered ABC-FM (classical music station). I know Don’t Stop and Blame it on the Boogie (actually a J5 song, I discovered while researching yesterday) from my high school days, but have no recollection of ever hearing Billie Jean or Thriller in their entirety. Because of their continuing commercial value, Jackson’s songs are not on the “Greatest Hits” compilation CDs that I have.
I did hear some 80s pop music courtesy of my younger sister during vacations and two separate years as a boys’ boarding house assistant, but Michael Jackson didn’t feature highly on either’s playlist.
@Jay Poe (280): Then how come the other Jackson children have led (comparatively) normal lives?
June 27th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
This list was incredibly disappointing. First of all, it looks and sounds like a cheap cut and paste-collection of tabloid press headlines. A list of MJ weirdo trivia might have been really interesting, but the lack of effort put into this one just makes the author look ignorant and careless, and not just on the part of the chosen subject, but also when it comes to maintaining a certain sense of quality on Listverse. I have the impression that less and less effort is being put into the making of your lists lately. This one is just plain boring, not to mention a bit tasteless. The last ten years there’s been nothing but this stuff when it comes to MJ, so I think it’s fair to ask that people give it a break the day he passed away.
June 27th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
…whos michael jackson?
June 27th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
You guys are on a hype about his death in the wrong way…I think alot of you lot are jealous of him…but just remember one thing…he came, he saw and conquered…he took the music scene to another level, and i know for a fact, never again will anyone even come close to doing what he has done…just have the respect and decency to respect the man, his music and what he has done in his life…I just wanna say he’s the greatest man Music has ever come across…he will always be remembered…Stop hatin’ on this man! You lot are like bunch of kids and fuckin dumb critics…just accept that he’s better than you lot here..oh and just to let u fuckin haters knw…one of the kids that was involved in the court case admitted today and said “I only did it for my father, I’m sorry Michael”.. Case Closed! PEACE 1
June 27th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
trice (284): lol. your logic is impenetrable.
June 27th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
will someone please stop the 24/7 MJ tributes on TV and the radio? will the idiots and attention whores cashing in on MJ’s death please get a life? will the fanboys/fangirls who deify the pedo and act as if they knew MJ personally please get a life?
June 27th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
I had a conversation with a coworker Friday about MJ and we both agreed on a few things.
First, this man did not have a normal childhood. While he did indeed enjoy performing, being in the public eye at that age is extremely difficult on kids, especially when they are treated as adults and not as kids. As we have seen recently with people such as Lindsay Lohan and now Miley Cyrus, excessive adulation and freedom can warp them. Not many childhood stars grow up well-adjusted. For some of them, the cessation of the attention when they reach adolescence or adulthood can be devastating; for others, it’s freeing.
Which brings me to the second point. It never stopped. He had a career going pretty much full time, from the time he was five, and there was no time to have a life away from work. There was no break for him. That kind of pressure is damaging physically as well as mentally. It may even have affected his heart. We know that stress is a big factor in heart disease.
And third, we agreed that despite his peculiarities and his troubles, he was a phenomenal performer and a great contributor to music. He will never be forgotten. I’m old enough to remember Elvis’s death (coworker is not) and people could just not believe it. The reaction was exactly the same.
I believe that it’s okay to discuss the bad/questionable things. No one is or was perfect, and I’m sure now that Michael can look over his purpose for being here in this incarnation, he wouldn’t mind us talking about it. This list doesn’t offend me because it’s not mean-spirited or exploitative. I also have total faith that jfrater has enough material to come up with another list that is a tribute to Michael. I wouldn’t think people would mind more than one. As another poster said, a Farrah list would be nice too.
I just bet they’re having a hell of a party on the Other Side. I hope they save me a place for when it’s my turn.
June 27th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
but you do see corinthian0430, MJ was a PR birth/dream, and the dream has become wet with death..The culminating completion of the modern age in idolization and commodity worship.
It regulates itself by means of a parasitical attachment to fashion,narcissism,melodramatic weakness,…uh,..
showbiz has evolved.
for all the tv and radio, this is their swelling glory flower.
fanboys/fangirls identify by reeling in the line they cast at their special pond. You know?
June 27th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Give the guy a break! He was a great singer, dancer, humanitarian. Randall: It’s fine to not like Michael but you are implying that he had mediocre talent, which is a pretty ridiculous implication.
He may or may not have molested children and he was pretty weird but I feel he deserves to be celebrated for the contributions he made. I haven’t seen a place where he’s being “idolized”. He’s being recognized for all his contributions which I feel he rightly deserves.
June 27th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Answer for 283 -
A Columbian footballer. Honestly and truly.
He’s aive and well – and still kicking.
June 27th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
288 Diogenes
I must be really tired. That actually made perfect sense.
June 27th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
@Mabel (287):
Hell of party? or a party in hell? >:)
They do have a special place there reserved for pedos >:)
June 27th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Sad when any person dies so young but honestly Jackson was as overrated as any show biz personality could be….made a few decent pop songs and grabbed his crotch a lot….
I feel bad for his family…as for his musical legacy, it was horrifically overrated…
June 28th, 2009 at 12:38 am
he’s not dead, he’s on an island with Tupac and Elvis
June 28th, 2009 at 12:44 am
Shame on you for this list. I know everything listed here is fact and cannot be denied but this is akin to speaking ill of the dead. Not cool.
You could have timed it better. Perhaps after the world had grieved and paid tributes and homages.
June 28th, 2009 at 2:00 am
Jfrater, just like the others, i’m really disappointed,i believe, LV can do better than do this!
June 28th, 2009 at 6:20 am
Why is everybody saying, “lay off Michael Jackson”. He’s dead. Do you really think he gives a shit about what people think of him now?
June 28th, 2009 at 6:34 am
Hey man not to be a pain in the ass or anything but i reckon it should of been of how michael jackson changed the music industrie or his greatest hits or something. that man was a legend and he should be remebered as one
June 28th, 2009 at 7:54 am
the the jfrater haters- if you are disappointed at sites that point out the not-so-squeaky-clean aspects of MJ’s life, you might also want to train your sights on the other sites such as the onion, about.com, thesmokinggun.com, wikipedia, etc- they have a bigger and a more detailed laundry list of MJ’s lurid acts and snafus
June 28th, 2009 at 7:56 am
@Duysan (298):
while we’re on the topic of “forgetting” the improprieties and sins of dead “great” people, let’s take this time to also reflect on the “accomplishments” of Vlad Dracul, Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Richard Nixon
June 28th, 2009 at 8:13 am
For all those who wanted a Michael Jackson greatest songs list, could you give me a sample now, please? Or are you just beginning to realize, that for a solo career which stretched over thirty years, he actually has a very low number of good songs?
June 28th, 2009 at 8:17 am
I can’t help but compare MJ to Caligula…
Quick rise to power/fame, promising career start, sudden illness, tragic death
Sadly, Caligula’s accomplishments were eclipsed by his excesses… methinks MJ who will be fondly remembered for his music will also be more remembered for his eccentric and deviant behavior.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:28 am
@corinthian0430
You can also add, a questionable sex life and a big ego to that list of similarities between Caligula and Michael Jackson.
June 28th, 2009 at 9:28 am
The challenge that I outlined on comment 301 has still not been taken by any Jackson lovers. Maybe your starting to realise he was all hype and no substance.
June 28th, 2009 at 10:16 am
294 davo: Thought that myself. lol
June 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am
beat it, billy jean,thriller, smooth criminal
June 28th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
.. I am really not sure about the timing of this list. I mean I am not a MJ fan per say, but let’s give at least time to bury him properly before digging the dirt.
June 28th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
You know, I commented early on when this list was posted. And I still don’t see the point in petty arguments on an internet site. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether they liked him or not. Who gives a shit what other people think? Think for yourselves. Don’t sling words back and forth at each other trying to prove a point when it makes both parties look immature.
June 28th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
@ 306 – qtpie
So you’ve managed to list four songs. I thought Jackson was meant to be the King of Pop, but even mediocre artist sometimes manage to sing four decent songs,
June 28th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
RIP Billie Mays!!! (o… and MJ too)
June 28th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
@twitus (307): Stop being a pansy
June 28th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
R.I.P.
June 28th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
310 baseballboy09 – RIP Billie Mays:
OMG! Didn’t that just freak you out? I turned on my browser this afternoon and it popped right up. I was shocked.
They’re dropping like flies!!!
June 28th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
When Farrah Fawcett died and went to heaven God gave her one wish. She said that she wished all the children of the world would be safe… so God killed Michael Jackson…The End.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
@Norman (303):
Hmmmm…. that would make a nice idea for a list comparing the parallels of MJ and Caligula >:)
June 28th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Great list- I particularly like the ‘tongue-in-cheekness’ of it
It’s interesting that for the last two decades or so the media has been bashing Michael Jackson quite severely and now it’s all about ‘paying tribute’ to a ‘great performer.’ For me, three words sum it up: dead pedo douche.
June 29th, 2009 at 3:35 am
corinthian430, honestly, for a guy who doesnt care for michael jackson you’ve certainly put forth a pathetic amount of energy to dance circles around him… You’ve spent about every day revisiting this list merely to rag on the dude… I mean, are you serious, brother? And wat are you bullshitting about in comment 288? What WAS THAT? Can u follow ur own advise and get a life, please… for you own sake? I mean, for god’s sakes, the amount of time you’ve invested on this subject just re-packing the same idea, while desperately trying to some off as witting is nothing short of embarrassing and, frankly, damn hard to watch. Is this that serious to you, really? That u’ve committed to embarkinf on this petty crusade to trash a guy who has no bearing on your life? I hate to say it, but you’ve BEEN looking like a loser.
I wonder about people like you… isn’t it draining ? being a contrary dousche all the time? Doesn’t it take its toll on you? Don’t you think its time to move on with wat call a life? I mean, dude, we get it, you’re a rebel to the mainstrain.. you’re “that guy” ….while the vast majority of people recognize something as great, you do not, you’re different.. and you don’t care to MJ (and have a major affliction of denial.. referred to the philipine prisoners as attention whores for reciting great dance routines? any more ridiculous and pathetically forced remarks to demerit MJ with?”)… WE GET IT.
why don’t read up on that sex list …pursue something more rewarding and which doesn’t make you look like a desperate attention whore? since you obviously have too much time and not enough to do..
June 29th, 2009 at 3:46 am
Interesting…………but i too wish it had been a little more +ve. RIP M.J.
June 29th, 2009 at 4:08 am
as the song says the night the music died his music will live forever may he rest in peace and rise in glory
June 29th, 2009 at 4:23 am
@James WER (317):
i’d rather stick one or two liners… but since you’re so affected by the rants that you wrote a long diatribe defending your fanboy mentality- you deserve my pity
June 29th, 2009 at 4:26 am
i’m bored… and i made it a hobby to ruin the day for the retards and pedo lovers
June 29th, 2009 at 7:04 am
Baxter:
Yes, you have misrepresented my views to some extent. Either you have some problem with comprehension—or you’re so freaking polarized about Michael Jackson that ANY negativity about him sends you over the edge past the point where you can no longer formulate simple critical thinking, and you lose all sense of rationality and judgement.
“You don’t believe that Jackson’s skill as a dancer and a showman adds up to much of a talent.”
That is in fact NOT what I said. Being a great showman and a great dancer requires talent. Michael Jackson, however, was a MUSICAL PERFORMER and WRITER and the question was whether his music and songs are worthy of the hype that has been generated around him since about 1983/4. You’ve consistently ignored this point and have repeatedly focused on his ability to dance and put on a show. So I take it you’re of the mind that that’s what Michael Jackson will primarily be remembered for.
“And you don’t think that there is artistry in his music.”
Again, a blatant distortion and misrepresentation of what I said. I never said there was NO artistry in his music—what I SAID was that the artistry that was there is not and was not ever up to the ridiculous levels of hype that were built up around it, and him. I in fact said more than once that I feel he had some decent songs. But a musical catalog worthy of ranking him with various legendary artists of pop music—let alone ranking him HIGHER than these? No. I don’t feel that Jackson’s musical catalog is up to that. His reputation is based on hype and image, and not really on the “greatness” of his songs, most of which–TAKEN PURELY AS EXAMPLES OF SONG ARTISTRY–never rise above mediocre fluff. Great production and style? Sure. But beyond that? There the artistry begins to falter.
“His popularity is based not on the public’s enjoyment of and appreciation for his music, but rather because he was a media cow.”
In part, yes. But there is also the matter of the public’s increasing lack of discernment as the years have gone by. As I pointed out–at length–Jackson was a manufactured pop idol for an era when there were no longer any great pop stars of the magnitude that were produced in the 50s and 60s. 1983 rolls around, and we’ve lived for over 10 ten years with only the old timers to look back on. We’d had punk and new wave, but they produced no real giants of the stature that the 50s and 60s had had. Up to this point Michael Jackson had been a pop star of ordinary level… but when it was realized that he had some cross-over appeal outside of R&B, he was quickly co-opped as the Next Big Thing and articulated INTO a “giant,” which in due course much of the public falled into step with—because they had nothing else offered to them and because over time music had become less and less about artistry and more and more about business. Take Jackson out of that context, and move him to another time period, and he’d have been big perhaps (or perhaps not) but certainly not THAT big.
“And, correct me if I’m wrong, you argue that because he wasn’t a great artist, he should be judged more for his bizarre personal life than for his mediocre music.”
Again, you seem to have a problem with LISTENING and COMPREHENDING. WHAT I SAID WAS, *IF* Jackson’s artistry as a music writer and performer is ENOUGH to overcome the negative aspects of his character and image, then in time we will know it, because his MUSIC will survive and remain hugely popular despite all the bad. But it’s MY opinion that in fact this will not happen–that in time Jackson’s music will be seen for the dispensible fluff that much of it really was, and his reputation will then fall back to being based on a few good songs (but only a fraction of his entire catalog) and then the negative aspects will form a greater importance, perhaps, in the consideration of who and what he really was.
“I on the other hand think that in judging a pop musician, like Elvis, like the Beatles or like Michael Jackson, it is worth noting what their act was based on.”
That’s convenient for you and your “argument” (such as it is, which isn’t much). But in fact Elvis and the Beatles are remembered AT LEAST AS MUCH for their music—for their actual SONGS–as for their anciliary abilities to “put on a show” or “dance” or what have you. This is what you keep overlooking—clearly because it suits you to do so.
“To ignore Jackson as a showman and a dancer would therefore be to overlook his talents as a performer.”
YAWN. And again, for the umpteenth time, I never said his talents for showmanship, etc. should be *ignored* per se—what I said was that they will NOT overcome the lackings in his actual MUSIC, in my opinion, and they will NOT sustain the HYPE that was built up around him in life.
It was big, BIG news in the 50s when Elvis Presley shook his hips and moved around the way he did, with his good looks and whatnot. And it was BIG news in the 60s when the Beatles shook their then-unprecedented mop tops of hair and carried on with their silly tongue-in-cheek antics. In short, the personas of these artists was a big part of the interest of the public in them AT THE TIME. But only a part–not the whole. The MUSIC was always there as well, in quantity AND quality.
But nobody TODAY still listens to Elvis because he gyrated onstage and was a handsome guy. Nobody today still listens to the Beatles because of their haircuts and so on. Elvis and the Beatles are remembered today because of their MUSIC primarily—in fact, mostly. One might even go so far as to say “strictly.”
30 years from now, will we be able to say the same of Michael Jackson? I highly doubt it.
“The vinyl is not the be-all and end-all of an artist’s product.”
In fact, Baxter, in time it IS the be-all and end-all. If you’re going to sit there and deny this then you’re either completely disingenuous… or you’re woefully mistaken.
“Jackson’s talent as a showman alone puts him on a par with Elvis”
How so? By considering them strictly as showman? Or do you argue that Jackson’s musical catalog is also as great as Elvis’s (or the Beatles for that matter?)
“– the reason I make this connection is due to their undisputed status as pop icons”
Yes surely, Michael Jackson has been a pop icon. A huge one. But I am saying that as an ARTIST, he was not up to the iconic hype that was built up around him. And I feel that in time that image will falter and diminish somewhat.
“– and I do think that there is artistry in his music.”
Good for you. Again, I never said there wasn’t ANY. I questioned HOW MUCH there was.
“I think his enduring popularity and phenomenal record sales have been due to a popular democratic sensation as much as it was due to his ubiquity in the media.”
You seem to have a serious problem with judging value by sales and figures. This, quite simply, negates your opinions. And it’s laughable how you have dragged “democracy” into the argument, as though there was really anything “democratic” about music sales. This is a mistaken notion, that people “vote” by what they buy. Rubbish. Product is product, and that’s all. There can be a myriad of reasons why one particular product sells and another doesn’t. The “democratic” opinion of “the people” has only a fraction to do with it. Some, sure. But not to the extent that you’re trying to make it out to be.
“You don’t like him. I get it.”
And you idealize him and idolize him. I get it.
“You don’t like the media. I get that too.”
Wrong again. I simply don’t buy hook, line, and sinker everything the media tries to shove down my throat. Unlike, frankly, you.
“But your critical opinion of him does not necessarily mean that his *media* image should be what the world focuses on in the wake of his death. That is the point I have been trying to make today above all others.”
A nonsensical point. Because his image is what it is. He MADE that image himself. HE was the one who did the things he did, bizarre, weird, criminal and otherwise. YOU and others here were criticizing the act of actually throwing some focus on his behavior and actions–because you and others viewed it as “disrespectful” and so on. Rubbish. One doesn’t “disrespect” because one returns to the outrageously weird and questionable things done by a public figure. To rail against that is in fact an act of intellectual cowardice, because what you’re saying is that you don’t want your idol tarnished–even though he was largely responsible for tarnishing himself.
TRUTH is what it is also… and TRUTH should be respected above all else. And the TRUTH about Jackson is that he was all these things pointed out in this list.
June 29th, 2009 at 8:02 am
How about Greatest MJ Moments…. geeezzzzzzzzz
June 29th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Hope you had fun writing that Randall, because I took great pleasure in not reading it.
That’s all, folks!
June 29th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Looks like he has finaly paid the price for his crimes and sins now he will suffer
June 29th, 2009 at 9:03 am
astraya 281: Because he is Michael Jackson and by far the most famous of the Jacksons. None of the other 4 members of the Jackson 5 remained famous or in the spotlight after the Jackson 5 broke up. You cannot compare MJ to his family. More was demanded from him then by any of the others.
But look at most other kid actors/ performers and see how they develop into adulthood. It’s not pretty for them either.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:09 am
I’m glad I’m not the only one who hasn’t lost their mind over Wacko Jacko’s death. One less pedophile in the world is a good thing. Now we just need to get rid of all the ones that are hiding out in the clergies of churches.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:10 am
One less pedophile in the world. R.I.H (Rot in Hell) MJ.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:14 am
I’m surprised that nobody brought up one of the most intriguing questions regarding Michael Jackson; a question which lead to much speculation and rumor a few years ago, and is still a bone of contention among those who have tried to analyze his vocal performances:
Was Michael Jackson a Castrato?
(You can look it up!)
This would explain his obsession with childhood–little boys, in particular–since he would never have progressed beyond preadolescence, physically or psychologically, and could relate to them on a personal, non-sexual level.
Of course, questions regarding celebrity surgical alterations are nothing new. Going back several decades–and those with long memories will recall this–one of the most famous celebrities of all time was discovered to have been castrated to preserve his unique vocal quality. I’m, of course, referring to Mickey Mouse.
It’s true that Walt Disney took steps to guard the horrific part he played in all of this. (The operation was, after all, performed by HIS own hand, using his wife’s pinking shears!)
To divert the public’s attention, and try to convince people that Mickey was “complete,” a bogus relationship was created, drawing in the participation of one of the most notorious lesbians on the Disney lot–Minnie Mouse. In her tell all book, “What I did for Cheese,” she admitted that she went along with the scam to protect her own career. A similar relationship was arranged for Goofy, though I understand that Daisy was not only straight, but involved in a clandestine relationship with Pluto.
As for Michael, I’m sure that his passing will eventually lead to an avalanche of books, written by those who know the “true story.”
June 29th, 2009 at 10:18 am
BTW, “Jacko” was acquitted. Remember, innocent until proven guilty. But I don’t know too much about the facts anyway.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Tongue – LMAO, good one. Though it wouldn’t matter if he were or not, seriously, a sex act is a sex act. And when you have enough money to buy the victim and all, you can buy your innocence.
JP – See above. Money can buy anything in this country. A poor man under those circumstances would have been rotting in prison.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:51 am
@Jay Poe (330): “Jacko” was acquitted. Remember, innocent until proven guilty.
True but acquittal doesn’t always mean “innocent” either. It just means the proscution’s case was weak or poorly executed. Here’s an interesting read:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8880663/ns/entertainment-music/
June 29th, 2009 at 10:53 am
I said I didn’t know all the facts. I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt. But that also says there wasn’t enough evidence to find him guilty as well. I don’t think it was due to poor execution though.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Also, didn’t those two people jurors write a book. Maybe they just wanted publicity and money. But like I said, I don’t know the facts and I really don’t care.
June 29th, 2009 at 11:55 am
@Jay Poe (333): But that also says there wasn’t enough evidence to find him guilty as well.
Let’s not forget that there were two cases. Damning evidence from the first one didn’t come to light because MJ paid his way out of it:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jacksonsplotch.html
Excerpt:
“With Los Angeles Police Department detectives weighing his claims, Chandler gave them a roadmap to Jackson’s below-the-waist geography, which, he said, includes distinctive “splotches” on his buttocks and one on his penis, “which is a light color similar to the color of his face.” The boy’s information was so precise, he even pinpointed where the splotch fell while Jackson’s penis was erect, the length of the performer’s pubic hair, and that he was circumcised.
It wasn’t long after law enforcement’s photo session that Jackson agreed to settle Chandler’s civil claim for north of $20 million.”
@Jay Poe (334): But like I said, I don’t know the facts and I really don’t care.
You cared enough to make a comment on it. Relax, I’m not attacking you or your post Jay, just providing more info for the MJ apologists in this thread.
June 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
That reminds me of that Dave Chappelle episode:
Dave Chappelle: Look, man, look. Michael Jackson has many faces – none of them look guilty to me. You gotta look in the eyes, not the noses.
Prosecutor: He’s been accused of this more than once.
Dave Chappelle: So? Some people say that cucumbers taste better pickled.
Prosecutor: What?
Dave Chappelle: Huh?
Prosecutor: What?
Dave Chappelle: Huh?
Prosecutor: What if I told you that the accusers
correctly described Michael’s penis to investigators?
Dave Chappelle: Sir, I have never seen Michael’s alleged penis, but I bet you that I can describe it all right?
Let me guess… there’s a head, a shaft, some balls, hair – maybe pressed, permed hair, with glitter sprinkled on it.
Prosecutor: That’s correct.
Dave Chappelle: Whoa… how’d I know? Come on dude, I couldn’t pick my own penis out of a line up, all right? And me and penis is like this, son.
Prosecutor: So, you don’t think Michael Jackson is guilty?
Dave Chappelle: No, man. He made “Thriller”.
[pause]
Dave Chappelle: Thriller
Prosecutor: So, would you let your kids sleep with him?
Dave Chappelle: F**k no!! Eewww…
June 29th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I would dearly love to see a list of all the “great things Michael Jackson did for humanity.” What would that include….avocation of plastic surgery/self mutilation? inappropriate behavior with small boys? defaulting on numerous loans and breaching numerous contracts? betraying his friend Paul McCartny?
Oh yes, great list. Michael Jackson was a creepy freak and as a parent I am glad there is one less molester in the world. He probably suffered from mental illness and/or PTSD and for that we should pity him, but lets not ignore reality and make him a martyr.
Thanks for the list that doesn’t pander to the idolizers.
June 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
ROFL @ 324.
I previously read a comment stating “what exactly did mj inspire you to do ..not in theory… but actually inspire you to go out and do”.
Inspiration isn’t always direct. In fact, most of the time it is indiredct. What u’re asking suggests that u have to be in a similar field as michael in order to be inspired, which is just outrageously absurd, and somewhat sad.
A man fighting aids or cancer for many years is inspiring, that doesn’t mean one has to acquire aids and fight it in order for their inspiration to have validity. Honeslty, a question like that is just a textbook example of “hating”. Inspiration is all around us. Greatness is inspiration. Courage is inspiration. A fireman risking his life for a child is inspiring.. who are you to insinuate that someone’s source of inspiration is invalid? what a hater.
June 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
337: did Michael Jackson kill your mom or something? You’re reaching so hard that its actually humorous. Nobody can take ur level of blatant spite seriously.Like have u no shame? You just seem so desperate. You sound so lame and angry. The fact that u ignored EVERY wonderful thing he’s done as charity and love just exposes your pathetic angle.
June 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
@339, please list the great things he did for charity. I’m serious. I cannot name one, so please enlighten me. I’m not spiteful, just a realist. He was a guy who had a lot of problems. For me, his music doesn’t out weigh his serious problems. I’m not saying you can’t like him or idolize him, but in MY opinion, idolizing Michael Jackson (or anyone really) is pathetic. You clearly are biased in his favor. I clearly am not.
June 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
@gadgetman (339): did Michael Jackson kill your mom or something? You’re reaching so hard that its actually humorous.
You think he didn’t do all the things mrsmarvel mentioned?
You sound so lame and angry.
You sound like another apologist.
June 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Also…
Charity Awards (Michael Jackson)
May 14, 1984: At a ceremony in the White House President Reagan presents Michael an award for special efforts; he is honored for his participation in a national ad campaign against drunk driving.
January 1989: The “Say Yes To A Youngsters Future” program honors Michael in recognition of his efforts to encourage children to natural sciences and award him with the “National Urban Coalition Artist/Humanitarian Of The Year Award”.
March 1989: At the Universal Amphitheater in Universal City, California, Michael receives the Black Radio Special Award for his humanitarian efforts.
September 22, 1989: The Capital Children’s Museum awards Michael with the Best Of Washington 1989 Humanitarian Award in recognition of his efforts to raise money for the museum, and for his never-ending support of children.
February 3, 1990: From Japan Michael receives a Role Model Award.
April 5, 1990: During a ceremony, where Michael is awarded as “Entertainer Of The Decade”, Michael meets President George Bush, who honors him with the “Point Of Light” award. Michael receives this award for his philanthropic activities. President Bush explains Michael’s humanitarian commitments to the press.
September 14, 1990: The Council of the American Scouts honors Michael with the first “Good Scout Humanitarian Award”. Michael receives this award for his humanitarian activities by supporting the Make A Wish Foundation, the Prince’s Trust, the United Negro College Fund and Childhelp USA.
October 23, 1990: Michael Jackson and Elton John will be the first recipients of the award in memory of Ryan White, which will be handed over in 1991.
May 1, 1992: President George Bush presents Michael with the “Point of Light” award for his continuing support of deprived children. During his stay, Michael visits little Raynal Pope, who had been injured very badly by dogs.
June 3, 1992: The organization “One To One”, who is caring for better living conditions of young people, honors Michael with an award for his commitment to deprived youngsters.
July 1993: The American Friends of Hebrew University honors Michael with the Scopus Award 1993.
August 1993: The Jack The Rapper Awards are presented and Michael is honored with the “Our Children, Our Hope Of Tomorrow” award.
November 17, 1993: Michael rejects the Scopus Award. He was nominated for this award, which was planned to be given him on January 29th, 1994.
April 12, 1994: On occasion of the 2nd Children’s Choice Award ceremony at Cit Center in New York, Michael is presented with the “Caring For Kids” award. This award is to honor celebrities, who take time for young people. 100,000 children and young people from 8 to 18 years old gave Michael their vote of confidence. The Children’s Choice Awards are sponsored by Body Sculpt, a charity organization, that offers drug-prevention programs for young people.
November 2, 1995: Michael receives the award “Diamont of Africa”.
March, 30, 1996: The Ark Trust-Foundation, who wants to draw the attention of the public eye on animal’s problems, presents the 10th Genesis Award. Michael is presented with the 1995 Doris Day Award. He gets this award for the “Earth Song” video, which draws attention to the plight of the animals.
May 1, 1999: At the Bollywood awards in New York, Michael is presented with an award for his humanitarian activities. The award is signed: “Though he comes from the young American tradition, Michael is the embodiment of an old indian soul. His actions are an expression of the philosophy of Weda, which asked to work for the people – not for one’s own interests.”
June 29th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Last One…..
The Millennium-Issue of the “Guinness Book Of Records” names Michael as the Pop Star who supports the most charity organizations. The following projects are supported by Michael Jackson:
AIDS Project L.A.
American Cancer Society
Angel Food
Big Brothers of Greater Los Angeles
BMI Foundation
Brotherhood Crusade
Brothman Burn Center
Camp Ronald McDonald
Childhelp U.S.A.
Children’s Institute International
Cities and Schools Scholarship Fund
Community Youth Sports & Arts Foundation
Congressional Black Caucus
Dakar Foundation
Dreamstreet Kids
Dreams Come True Charity
Elizabeth Taylor Aids Foundation
Heal The World Foundation
Juvenile Diabetes Foundation
Love Match
Make A Wish Foundation
Minority Aids Project
Motown Museum
NAACP
National Rainbow Coalition
Rotary Club of Australia
Society of Singers
Starlight Foundation
The Carter Center’s Atlanta Project
The Sickle Cell Research Foundation
Transafrica
United Negro College Fund
United Negro College Fund Ladder’s of Hope
Volunteers of America
Watts Summer Festival
Wish Granting
YMCA – 28th Street/Crenshaw
June 29th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Jay Poe: Nice list of good deeds. Were those accomplished before, during, or after the times he was plying young boys with porn and “Jesus Juice” so he could jerk them off?
June 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
@Maggot (345): I have been lurking around and following this conversation here. I agree…all the good in the world does not forgive even one of the bad he did.
It’s amazing what money can do. Even get people to forgive him for such indecent behavior.
Imagine that.
June 29th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
@oouchan (346): It’s amazing what money can do. Even get people to forgive him for such indecent behavior. Imagine that.
Yeah it’s pathetic, really. All the posters here trying to chastise Jamie for the list, saying we should “have respect” and that we should “celebrate” the SOB. Boo fucking hoo. Maybe if he molested their sons they would think differently.
June 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
RIP MJ. The world mourns, you were truly an inspiring and gifted human being. you were found not guilty, and some of the children later even admitted to have being put up to it by their parents to extort a pay day out of you.
I never believed he did those things. He loved children, as evidenced by all his charity work and music, even neverland.
Anyway, the general consensus seem to be that this list came from a bad place, and I agree. Elvis was a grown man having relations with a 13 year old priscilla, and that is a matter of fact, not opinion – still we never hear about that.
Once again RIP. I’m proud to say that this is not a list a consulted as a way to celebrating Michael Jackson’s life.
June 29th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
MJ had a tremendous influence on me and others in the so-called “MTV generation” which is not completely understood by the younger people who only know him for this kind of craziness. The world has lost one of its few amazing and brilliant artists. His impact cannot truly be measured at this moment. RIP Michael.
June 29th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Rick Astley… dead? http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-287996
June 29th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
I see a rash of posthumous Rick Rollin’ if this is true
June 29th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
Lots of kids sleeping safer than they used to. I don’t care if he wasn’t guilty (of sexual inclinations). I wouldn’t want my children lying in the same bed with a stranger, no matter what their intentions are – and it is well known as anyone can see that he is not mentally stable. Kids will be damaged by this no matter whether there is sexual connotations or not, just inferences can cause more damage to a kid’s mental state. So good bye and good riddance to bad luck – thanks for that Thriller album though – if you only kept it up…
June 29th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Why there isnt anything about sleeping in oxygen chamber, or buying Elephant man’s bones? They werent true but they were scandalous.
Now this is also called spamming, and filling the commentary
June 29th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Whoosie, no it isnt. Well… nothing to say here.
June 30th, 2009 at 3:18 am
To those who remember what Wacko Jacko did in life that was negative – THANK YOU! I also applau you being willing to speak up about it. That whole “speak no ill of the dead” thing is a bunch of crap in a case like this.
Thank you, Jamie, for having the balls to tell it like it is.
Also, the story that that link goes to has been pulled, and everything I saw indicates it was a likely a hoax.
June 30th, 2009 at 3:41 am
Ugh, distasteful list. I’m disappointed.
June 30th, 2009 at 7:05 am
I like the crotch grab.
June 30th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Jfrater, I am disappointed indeed. I visit listverse everyday because its a good list site. But now I see you did not show RESPECT at all. The reason you said why you posted this list is a lie and you know it…same goes for those who support jfrater on this, let me see you all put up a negative list on the wake of your dead loved one. I dare you.
June 30th, 2009 at 9:07 am
@robert akizuki
If that person was a child molester I wouldn’t want anything to do with them and I’ll be the first to say negative things about them.
June 30th, 2009 at 9:26 am
@norman
I’d have to agree on that with real evil peole… but the thing is the courts say he’s innocent…and actually i’m not sure as well if he’s guilty or not.
June 30th, 2009 at 9:59 am
@robert akizuki (361): but the thing is the courts say he’s innocent
Maybe you can discuss it with OJ over cocktails when you invite him to your next dinner party.
June 30th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Breaking News: Casper the friendly ghost was molested in the early hours of this morning! Guess who?? hahaha Awesome list!! keep up the good work!!
June 30th, 2009 at 10:23 am
@inappropriate (363): Out of all the comments…that one was the best! I needed a laugh today.
June 30th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I have to say that I was a little disappointed by this list. I was expecting a final tribute to Michael Jackson on here, and I was expecting it to be a little more positive…
June 30th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Why does everybody want yet another final tribute to Michael Jackson?
June 30th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Mostly everyone believes he is innocent of those crimes. That’s why everyone is celebrating him. If he was convicted there would not be celebrations like this.
The first kid back in 1993 who “confessed” was under a sedative at the time and later refused to testify. There was no proof to show that the kid was telling the truth, even his description of MJ’s penis wasn’t accurate. Then the father of the kid who was so mad that is son was allegedly molested by MJ that he took the 22 million dollars and let MJ go free?
2003 was just a bunch of other parents looking for a meal ticket but again could not prove anything because there was nothing to prove. Why else would they leave their kids alone with someone who was accused of molesting a child so publicly just 10 years earlier?
Now I admit MJ had his mental problems but he also had a mentality of a 14 year old. He never emotionally grew up. So he put himself in inappropriate positions but I think that’s where it ended. I don’t think he did. Anyone else who thinks he did do something is based on their opinions.
June 30th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
MICHAEL THE NARC-ANGEL
Millions of little members of the worldwide F.F.A. (Future Followers of the Antichrist) have finally learned how to find a certain part of their lower anatomy and quickly touch it while dancing – thanks to Michael Jackson, the highest paid Lower Anatomy Toucher of all time! Special thanks also go to the Jesus-bashing, Hell-bound Hollywood moguls who were just as quick to see higher profits in lower anatomies! [Just saw this opinion on the web. Other grabby items on MSN, Google, etc. include "Separation of Raunch and State," "David Letterman's Hate, Etc.," "Tribulation Index becomes Rapture Index," and "Bible Verses Obama Avoids." - something for everyone!]
July 1st, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Why wouldn’t we celebrate him now? If you think about it for the last couple of years I’ve seen sooooooooo many weird celebrity lists often with MJ coming in right at number 1. So Jfray you aren’t doing anything different than what has been done for the last decade or so. It’s funny people find it easier to critique and ridicule rather than say a kind word because “everyone else is doing it”. What have we become that even in death our hearts show no empathy.
MMMMMMMMMJJJJJJJJJJJ FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 1st, 2009 at 10:58 pm
One can’t show empathy to the dead – that is just plain silly… being dead is no big deal either it is just part of the cycle of life. Like Mark Twain said :
‘I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit’
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:06 am
Stop arguing about this! Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and no matter how hard you fight and argue and try to change their opinions with your “logic” ,its not going to work!
Do you really think telling a person they are wrong in what they believe in, and counter-arguing every sentence they say will make that person change their minds and say
“Oh yeah my bad, you’re right, I’ve been thinking MJ is a talented musician all this time, but now I know he was just a hyped up, lack-of-talent celebrity”
Geez, will everyone just please calm down.
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:59 am
Hey, nice post, really well written. You should post more about this.
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:18 am
thank you very much for this list!
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:41 am
You can change #1. The kid admited that he lied and that michael never abused him.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:06 am
R.I.P!
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:05 pm
@Evee “Hyped Up, lack of talent”? I know about a couple million people who would disagree with you, but as you say everyone has their own opinion, some more STUPID than others!!
@fabrulana you were smart enough to pick that up but not smart enough to see the meaning of the message in its entirety,thus trying to be a smart ass. Mission accomplished.
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
lol am I supposed to feel hurt now ? Look at the pot calling the kettle black …
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
@fabrulana (375): Look at the pot calling the kettle black
Not to mention, he also misread and misinterpreted Evee’s post and thus botched the criticism of it. Nice work there, thetruth. lol
July 3rd, 2009 at 2:13 am
Why are people still digging out his scandals and wrong doings? He was tortured enough when he was alive. Now that he’s dead, lets respect him people. He didn’t make the right choices in life and that’s the reason he was where he was. But who doesn’t make mistakes? We all are sinners in so many god damn ways! It’s just that no one cares cos we’re not famous! We just know the media reports and have come to believe them to be true. But what would have actually happened and the reasons MJ acted the way he did would’ve been completely different and unimaginable. We say RIP but we’re still at the same place talking about his all the wrong things he did in his life. It’s not fair, you know. The guy was a HUGE pop icon and everyone loves his songs.
July 3rd, 2009 at 5:49 am
Apparantly he didn’t die of a heart attack. They found him collapsed in a children’s ward after having a stroke
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:00 am
1) who said that the rest of the Jackson 5 had normal lives. they are ALL broke. Jermaine married Randy’s ex-girlfriend, Marlon packs bags in a supermarket, only Tito performs anywhere and it’s low budget, the oldest live at home with their mama. Only the sisters have done well for themselves….
2) OJ was found not guilty….and I think we all know the magical moment that case went downhill (another infamous glove moment, no?), but still if there had been solid proof to convict him he would have went to jail….
3) Since soooo many people say that they would not let their children sleep in a bed with an adult, then why did soooo many parents have their kids staying with Michael Jackson….and out of all the kids that stayed, only 2 were molested?
4) looking at morphing videos on YouTube, and see…he’s only had 2-3 noses, a cleft put in and lighter skin. His face actually hadn’t changed over the last 15 years. Plus makeup and lighting will make you look different in many pictures.
5) Even though I think Jermaine had the better voice and Janet is the better dancer, I cannot deny the talent of the man. He elevated it to an art form.
6) My 10 fave MJ songs (solo).
Remember the Time
Lady In My Life
Human Nature
She’s Out Of My Life
Rock With You
Man In The Mirror
Scream (with Janet)
Off The Wall
Say Say Say (with Paul McCartney)
You Are Not Alone
RIP Michael Jackson.
PS whoever put up the video with that big ass glove LMAO!!
July 3rd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
#379 Jussayin’ “2) OJ was found not guilty….and I think we all know the magical moment that case went downhill (another infamous glove moment, no?), but still if there had been solid proof to convict him he would have went to jail….”
Actually, had the DA bought the same brand, model, and size glove and had OJ try it on, it would have fit. The glove the police recovered was not found immediately, and thus had been exposed to the elements, causing it to shrink.
Still think OJ was innocent? May he and his lawyers all rot in Hell! Oh wait, they are all rotting in some version of it now, lol.
July 3rd, 2009 at 4:24 pm
did I say I think OJ is innocent? No
what I am saying is if the whole case rested on a glove fitting to convict the man, then the case must have been real weak. Again, another instance where everyone was out to get this man….how is it the evidence was not strong enough to convict him? As a matter of fact, I can’t say he is guilty with no definitive proof….anyone see OJ kill them? In fact I never believed OJ was smart enough to cover his tracks that good….
You know, it’s not something worth arguing about but it does make me think of 2 good list ideas…guilty people sent to jail that were later found innocent and innocent people who didn’t go to jail that are still considered guilty.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:15 am
MJ is overrated. This isn’t meant to be an inflammatory comment and I do have good reasons for saying it. First off all ask anybody on the street to name some Michael Jackson song’s, they can name Thriller, Beat It, Black or white and most can name Smooth Criminal. But beyond that a lot of so called Michael Jackson fans only manage to come out with usually only three more; Man in the Mirror, Bad and The Earth Song. All together that’s only seven songs in a career that stretched nearly forty years. In fact he only released ten albums and the first four had no songs written by him. Off the Wall had only three songs at least partly written by Jackson. Thriller has also got only three, even the title track was written by someone called Rod Temperton. Finally Bad, his seventh album, has the majority of the track written by Jackson himself, as does Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible. It should be noted that the two albums considered his best, Off the Wall and Thriller had only three songs written by him. The three which came after suffered a drop in quality. Why? Because Jackson wrote most of the songs.
Furthermore, all his albums had fillers. Although that is acceptable from most artist, you do expect more from the proclaimed King of Pop. The reason why Jackson’s so popular is because his amazing dancing skills were played to the backdrop of some catchy tunes and music videos designed for MTV and people lapped it up.
Don’t get me wrong, Jackson was a fine artist and great performer, but he is so overrated its unbelievable. People who think he’s better musically then The Beatles are idiots and I can list several reasons why I believe The Beatles and many other artist are better then Michael Jackson, if someone challenges me.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
@Norman (382):
Thank you, Norman. Well said.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
“Anyone who does not own thriller, bad or dangerous leave now….. and change my facebook status to RIP MJ.. we are going to play Heal The World until we’re all shitting rainbows”
July 6th, 2009 at 10:36 am
RIP my KING…
RIP my legend…
RIP my GOD….
shame on you ppl…stop doing that…and i don’t believe any things frm this shit.. he is the most famous human in a whole earth …and the stupid media loves his personal life
and some f*** ppl believe this shit about “MY GOD mr.MJ”
..so they had brain wooooosh ..and they have a short mind just like u …in the enD..NO 1 will be JUST LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON…simply a kinG of humanity
rip MJ and i know that u r N much batter place up…with an angels just like you …and thank you 4 every thinGs “MIKE” KOz u R the only who make our world batter place
f*** u listverse
July 6th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Norman: #382: I definitely don’t think MJ is overrated. Here are some facts.
13 Grammy Awards (Solo career. 18 with the Jackson 5)
8 Grammy Awards won in 1984 (record for most in a year)
37 Number of weeks that “Thriller” was at the top of the Billboard 200
109 million copies of “Thriller” reportedly sold worldwide (number 1 selling album of all time)
80 consecutive weeks “Thriller” appeared on Billboard’s top 200 list
47 million people watching when he debuted the moonwalk on live television
35 countries visited on his 1996-1997 HIStory world tour
20 million copies of “We Are The World,” which Jackson co-wrote with Lionel Richie
13 number-one singles
2 times inducted into Rock n’ Roll Hall of Fame
It’s funny though, if you asked people’s opinions of him just 2 weeks ago it would have been mostly negative. Now most opinions are positive.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:43 am
shahoda:
It’s the blue pill and THEN the white pill.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:47 am
haha… yes, shahoda… let us hope he is in a ‘batter’ place.
batter, indeed.
I’m suddenly craving pancakes.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:47 am
@Jay Poe (386):
Lots of crap acts have won Grammy Awards. Doesn’t mean that much. But the point is not that Michael Jackson was TERRIBLE—just that he was overrated. Awards don’t disprove that. Giving out awards to the ultra popular is one of the favorite pasttimes in the music industry AND Hollywood… no matter how much deserved or not deserved.
Popularity does NOT equal quality.
Norman’s points are still extremely valid. Jackson was more performer than artist. He was overrated as the latter by far.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Well “overrated” is his opinion in which he doesn’t share with many others. More people bought “Thriller” then any other album. So you want to leave out the facts that he won many awards and also leave out the fact that he sold millions and millions of albums to help your claim that he was overrated?
If someone is not a fan of someone or something then they call them overrated. His career (not his personal life) speaks for itself.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:59 am
@Norman (382): Agree with you on him being overrated. Without all the media on him…he wouldn’t have been as great as he was.
Kind of reminds me of the Jonas Brothers…same concept. 2-bit act hyped up to be something it’s not.
I will admit that MJ’s songs are better than theirs though.
@Randall (387): hahaha! Classic.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:07 am
@Jay Poe (390):
The mere fact that an opinion MAY be in the minority doesn’t make it wrong.
But Norman’s (and mine) may NOT be the minority anyway. We don’t know that.
Additionally, the mere fact that lots and lots of people bought “Thriller” proves nothing. Thriller was a long time ago. Also, people “buy” lots and lots of things, in big numbers. These items are often crap just as often–and probably more often—than they are high-quality. Again, Jay Poe–popularity does NOT equal quality.
I did not say I wanted to “leave out” ANY facts. I’m merely saying that the facts you present do NOT prove that Jackson is not overrated. They in fact, on their own, prove very little except that lots of people bought his product and that he won lots of awards. Period. But winning awards and selling records are not “proof” of quality.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Thriller is the reason why I think he’s overrated. He releases one good album and suddenly he’s the best musician ever. If I was musician I would rather have a career of great albums, then just one (or two). Many critics don’t rate Michael Jackson as the best musician ever or Thriller to be the best album ever. Titanic is the best selling movie of all time, but that doesn’t mean its the best movie of all time. That film also shows that being overrated helps in selling things, because people are hoodwinked into believing its absolutely brilliant, but it’s actually a masssive let down.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Only one good album? So these were bad albums:
Off the Wall- Don’t stop til you get enough, rock with you, She’s out of my life, Off the Wall.
Bad- Bad, The way you make me feel, Man in the Mirror, I just can’t stop loving you, Smooth Criminal.
Dangerous- Remember the time, heal the world, In the closet, black or white
HIStory- Scream, Earth Song, You are not alone, They don’t care about us.
You can’t really say he only had one good album. I’m just saying that MJ had many hits spread throughout his career and had a more of a cultural impact on society than most performers.
July 6th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
@ enigma: I was about to say the same thing. He definitely had more than 1 or 2 good albums. You say that he only had 1 “great”. Not many musicians have a “great” album in their careers.
July 6th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
I’m not saying their bad albums, its just I expect more from someone so highly rated.
July 6th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
@Randall (389): Lots of crap acts have won Grammy Awards.
Case in point: Milli Vanilli. lol
@enigma (394): You can’t really say he only had one good album.
What makes those albums “good”? Insipidly catchy pop drivel does not equate to “good”, much less “great” musical artistry.
I’m just saying that MJ had many hits spread throughout his career and had a more of a cultural impact on society than most performers.
What “cultural impact”? The debate is about quality musicianship, not how many people tried to copy his dance moves.
@Jay Poe (395): Not many musicians have a “great” album in their careers.
The great ones do. Wait, you’re not confusing “great” with “popular”, are you?
July 6th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Maggott,
So what defines albums as being good or bad to you? Maybe you can explain that to me. I believe it is a combination of record sales, awards, popularity, and longevity (his songs have been playing for ever, radio, movies, etc. Even before he died).
So are you being objective or subjective when you say his albums/ songs weren’t good. What are you basing this off of?
July 6th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
remmber michael jackson it still the great music icon
July 6th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
@Jay Poe (398): So what defines albums as being good or bad to you?
Well personal music appreciation will always be “subjective” and so of course you are entitled to your own feelings on it, but IMO the cream that rises are those that show multiple facets of musical and lyrical depth and emotion, rather than relying primarily on radio-friendly pop hooks and in MJ’s case, well-choreographed dance accompaniment. Remember, we’re talking about *musical* artistry. So this doesn’t just mean technical musicianship ability, but also the feelings behind it. What really moves you? Admittedly this is subjective. But for example Freddie Mercury is widely regarded as a great vocal talent, and I’m a big Queen fan mind you, but his singing (nor MJ’s, to stay on-topic) doesn’t move me like say, listening to Janis perform Ball & Chain or Summertime.
Ok not everything has to be emotionally moving, but listen to Revolver or Dark Side Of The Moon or Blonde on Blonde or VU & Nico, to list but a few examples, all of which btw are critically acclaimed for reasons other than your definition of “a combination of record sales, awards, popularity, and longevity”, and tell me how Off the Wall or Thriller compares favorably artistically to those. Remove the visual element of it and just listen. I don’t want to rehash the same points Randall made to Baxter earlier in this thread but go back and read some of that conversation too, where MJ is compared to the likes of Sam Cooke, Otis Redding or Robert Johnson. In other words, there’s no comparison. That’s not to say that I think MJ is unlistenable. I can enjoy it when the mood strikes. But let’s not get carried away as to what it is, which is for the most part, shallow, almost to the point of being teenybopperish, pop.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Damn, he looks less and less like a guy (person?) in some of those photos, is it his
a) hair
b) skin colour
c) plastic surgery
d) all of the above?
Yeh, even though we may have a laugh at him, he did revolutionize the music world with pop and those awesome music videos. The choreography was excellent and made a great impact in how music artists now release their work. Remember him for all the good things he has done rather then the scandals that – changed the world too lol
July 6th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Michael Jackson is the greatest artist and entertainer of all time.
Every artist that came before and after him will just die and will never surpass his success as an artist.
Good luck to you guyz! Die trying.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:02 am
I think its funny you put at the end…. ultimately ended his music career.
His career is far from over, even in death. The charges didnt hurt his music guilty or not… he ended his career by not making anymore.
Until of course now with him working on this tour in which a couple of the songs on it are again….amazing MJ work. Watch the videos of him dancing FABULOUSLY just a day before he died. Brittany Spears couldnt even hold it together that well. (Her scarey, fat, dazed grammy flop a few years back.)
Michael Jackson and his music, dancing, performances because legendary YEARS ago and his scandals will never overshadow that. He will always have WAAYY more fans than critics.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
“Michael Jackson is the greatest artist and entertainer of all time…”
Actually, the same–more or less–has been said of:
Al Jolson (popular for 40 years)
Bing Crosby (popular for 50+ years)
Frank Sinatra (popular for 50+ years)
Elvis Presley (popular for 25+ years)
…many others, in fact.
Since “pop music” changes with every new generation, the title, “King of Pop” is fleeting, at best.
This takes NOTHING away from MJ’s accomplishments, as an artist or performer, of course.
The question we should now be asking is, who will take over his title–deserving or not?
July 8th, 2009 at 6:51 am
@Mr. Michael
“Michael Jackson is the greatest artist and entertainer of all time.” Please tell me what you base this comment on.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:53 am
Well, Norman, you said he was overrated based on your own opinion so Mr. Michael probably did the same.
Long_Memory/ Norman,
There will eventually be another “greatest entertainer of all time” but probably not the likes of MJ. At least not for awhile. Everyone in the world knew him and there were memorials all over the globe. He impacted that many people. He is one of the most famous people in the world, even surpassing Obama on Facebook and the social websites.
I would definitely say he is ONE of the greatest entertainers of all time. He was flashy and flamboyant and put on a good show. His videos were unlike any others. More people imitate his dances then anyone else. That’s a great entertainer to me.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Maggot, well said. I guess I appreciate his music a little more than you. To each his own. At least we reach common ground on Grunge music. Good job on the list by the way.
July 8th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Shame on u people, stop doing that, leave him alooon plz, he’s dead now, he gives all his life for his fans and now the price is that???? shame on u and F..k all of u. specialy this site and the paparatzyyyyyyyyyyy
July 9th, 2009 at 2:34 am
@Jay Poe
I do realise that my belief that Michael Jackson is overrated is just my opinion, but I do have some factual evidence to back up my claims. I was just asking Mr. Michael to back up his views.
Furthermore, your comment “he is ONE of the greatest entertainers of all time”, shows that even some of his fans believe he was more of an entertainer, then a musical artist.
July 9th, 2009 at 9:21 am
@Jay Poe (407): At least we reach common ground on Grunge music. Good job on the list by the way.
Heh thanks, I had fun doing it. And thanks for your comment contributions over there. Good knowledge!
@Norman (409): even some of his fans believe he was more of an entertainer, then a musical artist.
I’ve often wondered really how “big” Thriller the album (and MJ’s overall subsequent legacy) would have been on its own merit, without the buzz created by MTV and Thriller the video. But I’ll give credit where it’s due, and acknowledge that it’s a great(ly entertaining) video!
July 10th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Why do people put their music tase before their morals? The fact is that he was a child abuser
July 10th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Why do people put heresay before fact. Do you have proof he was a child molestor because most people (including the judges and jury) dont think he did it.
Just because someone is accused of something doent mean that its true or that they did it.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
none of you cared about him before but now that he is dead, your complaining about how wrong this is……wow! you are all SO fake! he was a child molester….yeah…yeah…he was never convicted…just like OJ…hmmm…its called money…mj was nothing more then a piece of shit…well…plastic……get over it……and watch that episode of south park. oh, and i cant wait for south park to do a new episode. HAHAHHA!!
July 10th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Who did John Lennon probably cause the death of?
July 10th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
@Jack (411): Why do people put their music tase before their morals? The fact is that he was a child abuser
Do you think Chinatown is a great movie? What about The Pianist? Rosemary’s Baby? Tess…? Just wondering.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Nothing wrong with posting this list. I must say that the Martin Brasher interview stood on its own and should have been included. The way MJ was shaking his leg feeding his baby (and babbling)while Martin was had a shocked look (while kicking back in the chair) was unnerving. I think the hair on fire in the Pepsi commercial started it all.
MJ I believe died a broken man (figuratively) a long time ago. Sadly. Thriller is one of the best.
July 13th, 2009 at 5:00 am
@jbjr
Thriller is one of the best what? One of the best songs? Nope, even Jackson fans prefer other tracks, like Smooth Criminal, Beat It or Bille Jean. One of the best albums? In terms of sales yes, but in terms of musicial accomplishment it actually has very little. Only three of the songs were written by musicial Jackson and the album is full of fillers. There has been many far better albums then Thriller. So is Thriller one of the best music videos? Of course, its absolutely brillant and is the main reason Jackson is so hyped up and helped the albums sales drastically.
July 13th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
In the philippines, we pay tribute to Jacko by celebrating the fact that our tiny president, Gloria Arroyo, have her boobs repaired several years ago
July 14th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Never too soon for this.
While it may be true that Michael Jackson was a very talented musician, and gave us much over the years, it’s also true that he was in his later years at best someone with deep mental issues, and at worst a miserable pedophile capable of gettign away with his crimes through money.
I don’t believe in all this ’say no ill of the dead’ bull. Why present someone with an incomplete or innacurate image just because they’ve died?
Personally, it makes little difference to me whether he lived or died, he hadn’t made any relevant or good contributions to society or the musical world in a decade or more, and to me, one less potential pedophile is always a good thing.
July 17th, 2009 at 8:28 am
I know this is just beating a dead horse with a stick but many people say that MJ was just a good entertainer and not a musician or artist. I disagree. Although he didn’t write every song (most pop stars don’t write any of their songs) he did write and compose many hit songs including these:
Don’t stop until you get enough
Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin
The Girl Is Mine
Beat it
Billie jean
Bad
The Way you Make Me Feel
Smooth Criminal
Heal the World
Black or White
Earth Song
Co-wrote We are the World
He wrote almost every song on the ‘Bad’ album.
Maybe he wasn’t the best artists in your opinion but he is up there and definitely one of the most famous of all times.
July 18th, 2009 at 4:51 am
how about all the good he did? COntributions to charity. Com’on, he remained far reacher than many of his critics can ever dream to be in 50 lifetimes. cant blame you, some people even have 100 Jesus scandalous moments…
July 22nd, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Shooting a dead person is not cool my friend! What about his unselfish contribution to the poor and the charities? Have you included on the list? Who are we to judge MJ for most of us did not even see him personally before?
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:25 pm
I hope everyone looks up the definition of “CASTRATO”, which would explain alot. The lack of adult decision making is a side effect of castration. I believe 100% that he WAS NOT a pedophile…more likely asexual. Perphaps this is WHY he called himself Peter Pan?
Michael gave his “all” to his fans! Joe Jackson start sweating…your crime is coming to the surface! Michael would have had to be 12 or younger! Below the age of consent! Opps!
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:42 pm
This would ALSO explain why he had sleep overs with kids and thought nothing wrong of it. From the court case in 2003 the mental health professional stated that Michael had “REGRESSED to the emotional maturity level of a 10-year old”. (look it up). I say “had not PROGESSED” beyond the level of a 10-11 year old! BIG difference, I hope you can understand why. I hope the autopsy tells the TRUTH…because if so Papa Jackson did a crime.
July 25th, 2009 at 6:05 am
he was a perverted and very sad being, displaying a auto eroticized obsession with the crotch – his and others’ – that ultimately led to him going crazy and self indulging with drugs to alienate his own mind,
good thing he finally died !
July 25th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
The list did not affect me either way, I know Michael was innocent of the sexual assault charges because I have studied the Legal Case and am now totally convinced of his innocent if I ever doubted before I do not now. As with other “mistakes” .. Michael was human, under extreme pressure and was hounded and hunted by money greedy opportunists. Michael also had aspirations to be the greatest entertainer ever and he achieved his goals in life. Michael knew there were extreme costs to himself personally for his extreme success in life in his chosen field. Thank God my life isn’t in the public eye 24/7 for the past 50 years because Michael would look like an angel. Stop judging other people famous or otherwise our job is to enjoy eachother and life not try and tear down any good thing that anyone ever does. Michael had his good points and bad just like every one else. He brought more joy to the world than any other person I know did so move on people, people who loved Michael are grieving and suffering at this time so can you all stop with the criticism because there’s more to life than that.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
By the way the crotch grabbing thing was a master stroke of genius, work it out people … since he started up that little “stage grabber” he’s been more talked about and more controversal that any other performer. All performers try and find something that will make them stand out and Michael did that on so many levels. Look what Cher did and wore and Madonna and Britney Spears wearing no panties at all on many occasions. The crotch grab was genius and was all about show-man-ship. Who will ever forget the crotch grab? So Michael achieved what he set out to achieve
July 27th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
wow.. simmer down… Randall, you should take some quiz readily available online to see how bloated your ego is. Trying to be an art critic is stupid. It’s there for everyone to appreciate so if you don’t, just back off and give chance to others. Dang… lay off the hormones will ya?
July 29th, 2009 at 12:54 am
No matter what they say about Michael, he would always be the only KING OF POP. He’ll always be in my heart. You are not alone, Michael. Thanks!
May you rest in peace.
August 3rd, 2009 at 1:02 am
he is the greatest celebrity ever lived!
no one can replace him.
August 3rd, 2009 at 2:40 am
Leaving aside debates about wherever or wherever not he was child pedophile for the moment, I am just trying to fathom why Jackson has such an effect on people, to the point of them proclaiming him as the greatest person ever? He hasn’t released anything in about 15 years and he was a very strange man with limited charisma. So why do people put on the rose tinted spectacles and call him a great and charming man.
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:06 am
Oh anyone who thinks Michael Jackson isn’t weird and egotistic should look at the list 10 Bizarre Items Owned By Michael Jackson
August 4th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
I am absolutely amazed at the people who continue to CONVICT Michael..although he has been clearly exonnerated on all 14 COUNTS which read and was stated..”NOT GUILTY.”(trial for 2005). I wonder how these same people would feel if it were someone in their family or ..worse their own children..
According to research…The first accusation, Jordie Chandler not only has confessed to lying because of his greedy DAD. BUT!! His father, Evan Chandler and his step father were caught having a phone conversation scheming the LIE!!!… they spoke about how they were going to destroy Michael with their lie. Take a listen
@http://tr.im/vvRa
It goes to show how many people do not read or research..AND THEY WANT to believe a Lie.
ALL of YOU who are calling him a PEDO or molestor..YOU should be ashamed of your non-unimformed, small minded, non-reading or researching, tabloid believing, hear-say suck-up SELVES. Michael Jackson is not guilty of child molestation. Don’t you realize that if Tom Sneddon (D.A. who was against MJ) could have had one little inkling of proof on Michael…he would have thrown Michael UNDER the jail to prove a point? NOT ONCE DID TOM SNEDDON ACCUSE MICHAEL ..BUT TWICE and HE LOST! DON’T BE SO STUPID. Michael did not want to settle out of court the first time. He was ADVISED by his lousy advisors!!AND THEY MADE THE DECISION without his full consent. READ, RESEARCH, AND CRITICALLY THINK FOR YOURSELVES PEOPLE AND STOP LETTING THE MEDIA DEFINE WHAT YOU THINK AND BELIEVE!!!!
August 4th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
@Norman (429): It is obvious that you are not a Michael Jackson fan who have followed his accomplishments for the last 10,20,30,or 40 years. If you could understand the impact of acomplishment not only in music..but he was honored by 3 Presidents because of his humanitarianism and Philanthropic prowess. He was an innovator. He broke barriers and walls down in many areas and led the way for many artists. The day Friday after he died, the House of Representatives ans Congress all stood for a momnet of silence to honor Michael. That is HUGE. The people who call him the Greatest are his mentors that have gone before him. That is pretty commendable when the mentor can call the mentee the greatest. Iconic People like Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Marlon Brando, Gregory Peck, Elizabeth Taylor, Liza Minelli, Kathryn Hepburn, Henry Fonda, Sammy Davis Jr., Jackie Gleason, Red Skeleton, Princess Diana, Mother Theresa, Berry Gordy, Smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder, Gladys Knight and Diana Ross…to name a few have hailed him as the greatest. THEY SHOULD KNOW. AN honor like that does not come to a person of mediocrity. Michael wrote most of the songs on his albums and sang background to. He co-produced and published as well.He choreographed all of his dances and has never had a vocal lesson or dance lesson in his life.
Lastly he also broke records in sales as well. He sold the most albums in history of music for Thriller. He also invented the gravity defying shoe for one of his dances. Lastly..his accomplishments for charity out of his own pockets and his record breaking accomplishments are in the Guinness World Book of Records.
August 5th, 2009 at 1:19 am
@ Tweet
The greatest what? If you mean entertaining, then in terms of dancing, yes he is one of the greatest. Like you say he choreographed all of his dances and invent or popularised many dance moves and styles. However, as a music artist I don’t think many people have called him the best at that.
Also all those names you’ve listed, how many of them called Jackson “the greatest entertainer.” Which is quite a stupied thing to say, because an entertainer can cover many things such as acting, dancing, singing, comedy, playing an instument and so much more that one person can not be defied the greatest at – unless they have entertained people in about fifty different ways.
The fact that the House of Representatives and Congress held a minute silence for Jackson is laughable. Its just like Gordon Brown hoping Susan Boyle was going to be okay. Its just a cheap trick used to get a few more votes.
Furthermore on Jackson’s best albums Thriller and Off The Wall he did not write the majority of the songs. Yes, Thriller broke sales record, but I and others have given our reasons as to why this is in earlier comments. Besides sales don’t equal the best album ever and if you look at most best albums of all time list done by professional music critic, Thriller hardly ever gets top spot.
Finally, I have to say he was great for helping out so many charities. But loads of people try to help out the poor or disadvantaged, it doesn’t mean people start overhyping them to the maximum
August 5th, 2009 at 6:58 am
good job, but this is not a top 10 list.
September 3rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm
His music wasn’t that great, and everyone falling over themselves to praise a messed up paedophile has been getting on my nerves.
Thank you very, very much JF.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 am
I know exactly where he is, and it is pretty fucking hot.
October 6th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
The poor guy is dead! I mean, seriously. He has always been criticized. I think it about time you put up something good about him.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
would u just leave the man alone? y cant u let him find his peace?
November 21st, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Is this the way to pay tribute to a great musician like Michael Jackson? Why focus on the scandals? I’d rather remember him for his good deeds and his musical geniousity. He was already pained and scarred by the media when he was alive. Please, now that he is dead, leave him alone! Give him the respect that is due him.
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:10 am
mike tyson, Michael jackson…..
People let blacks grow up but they dont want them to stand there for long
December 1st, 2009 at 6:31 pm
lol that wat u call a tribute