Granted not everyone is a fan of classical music, but we try hard to have lists to suit all tastes! This list looks at classical music from a slightly different angle – playoffs! If you can think of any other piano duels (which this lister could not!) please mention them in the comments.

It wouldn’t have made it onto this list were it not for the comment Gelinek made, when asked if he thought he could beat Beethoven in a piano duel. “I’ll make mincemeat of him!”
Well, it was the other way around. Gelinek turned out not to be all that formidable an opponent, although his nerves may have gotten the best of him. After the first round, in which both played their own best, and most difficult works, Gelinek looked a little paler to the audience, probably because Beethoven chose his Sonata 19 in G minor, Op. 49.
Once the improvisations began, Gelinek couldn’t seem to get his head in the game, and Beethoven walked all over him. Gelinek simply left the room when Beethoven began the third round.

This one never actually took place. But it would have, had Scriabin not strained several of the tendons of his right hand while preparing for the duel. He was practicing Liszt’s Reminiscences de Don Juan, after Mozart’s Don Giovanni, and also Islamey, by Mili Balakirev. Either of these works has a fair claim to the title of most difficult piano piece ever composed.
Lhevinne, however, went down in history as one of the finest pianists ever, having made several recordings of piano rolls, which have left other great pianists, Josef Hofmann and Vladimir Horowitz among them, in awe. You can find some of these on YouTube.
It’s for the best that Scriabin hurt himself, because he wrote his F minor Sonata as a sort of elegy for his right hand. His right hand did however make a full recovery, but he never challenged Lhevinne again.

Is Beethoven less than 31 years old? Then he can still hear himself play. Don’t challenge him. If only Steibelt’s foresight had been as clear as our hindsight. He is referred to as “a most unvirtuous virtuoso,” well-known during his day for spreading false rumors, cheating, stealing money from concert receipts, sleeping with married women, and, among other things, telling everyone he met, even announcing before and after his concert recitals, that Beethoven was a hack performer and scared of him.
Beethoven, for his part, really didn’t care what Steibelt had to say, until Steibelt finally worked up the nerve to challenge him to a duel. This happened in May 1800, when Steibelt traveled to Vienna for the sole purpose of beating Beethoven at his own game. The question most often asked in history class is, “What the hell was he thinking?!”
They met at the house of the Count von Fries, who was a patron and fan of the arts, especially music, and liked Beethoven’s irascible nature. He therefore favored him over Steibelt, but rooted for both fairly as did the rest of the audience, about 100 people, mostly the Count’s entourage.
The duel took place according to traditional conventions: the first round was whatever piece the performer wanted to play, by anyone, and thus the performers chose the most technically difficult piece they knew. Beethoven played a sonata by Mozart. Steibelt played one by Haydn.
The second round was a two-piano contest of alternating improvisations on themes each performer would give the other, making the themes up on the spot. Beethoven soundly won this round.
The third and final round was the most important for testing the true genius of a performer. Each performer would sight-read a new piece written by the other performer. Steibelt went first, playing Beethoven’s brand new Piano Sonata in B Flat Major, Op. 22. He did well enough, garnering a good amount of applause after his improvisations. The Count claims to have seen Beethoven roll his eyes at the applause.
Then Steinbelt tried to trip Beethoven up by giving him a new cello sonata, for cello and piano. This is a breach of the rules, technically, but Beethoven wasn’t about to win on a technicality. He took the score, turned it upside-down on the music rack, and sight-read it backward, then improvised on one of its themes for about 30 minutes.
Steibelt was thoroughly destroyed, and didn’t wait for Beethoven to finish. He walked out and never met with Beethoven again.

This story has been recounted by most of Bach’s biographers, and told and retold with more and more embellishments. The most authoritative biography of him is by Phillip Spitta, who tells the story as follows.
In September 1717, Bach had become well known throughout Europe as the greatest keyboard performer in Germany. He was not well-known or admired for his compositions, as the Baroque movement was going the way of the Dodo and Bach wrote in an extremely heavy, robust, meat-and-potatoes Baroque style.
Louis Marchand was equally well-known throughout Europe as an outstanding French organist and keyboard performer, and when he heard the tales about Bach’s virtuosity, he traveled to Germany with the express purpose of meeting and defeating Bach.
Bach worked in Weimar at the time, and when they met, Frederick II, the King of Prussia, who was a huge fan of Bach’s music, organized a little harpsichord playoff. Bach arrived first, early in the morning before anyone else, to warm up and stretch his fingers. Marchand walked into the palace, heard these warm-up exercises, turned right around and walked out, got in his carriage and returned to France. He never went to Germany again.

On Christmas Eve, 1781, Clementi and Mozart met at the court of Franz Joseph II. They were amiable at that time, not bitter rivals, and Clementi’s skill at the keyboard was such that he was able to hold his own with Mozart, all the way to the end. The Emperor called it a draw. They were both required to improvise variations on a theme the Emperor devised on the spot, and Clementi managed to draw equal amounts of applause. They both improvised fugues, waltzes, variations in minor and major.
Mozart and Clementi both agreed afterward that Mozart had won, but these were dubious statements, since Clementi was just being polite, as was his nature, and Mozart did not like Italians, in general. He considered them terrible at music. He wrote to his father, “Clementi plays well, as far as execution with the right hand goes. His greatest strength lies in his passages in thirds. Apart from that, he doesn’t have a kreuzer’s worth of taste or feeling. In short, he is a mere mechanics [robot].” Mozart wrote later, “Clementi is a charlatan, like all Italians. He marks a piece presto but ‘plays’ only ‘allegro.’”
Clementi, for his part, had this to say about Mozart, “Until then I had never heard anyone play with such spirit and grace. I was particularly overwhelmed by an ‘adagio’ and by several of his extempore variations for which the Emperor had chosen the theme, and which we were to devise alternately.”

Beethoven had a bad habit of being good at what he did. That made him a bigger target for other performers trying to carve reputations out of his hide. Wolfl and Beethoven were friends at one time, both having dedicated various works to each other. But Wolfl apparently became malcontent with his status as second in pianistic greatness behind Beethoven, and thus challenged Beethoven to a piano duel, in 1799, at the home of Count Wetzlar, one of Beethoven’s admirers and patrons, and a patron of artists in general.
By the time the duel took place, Wolfl had made a point of playing many recitals and concerts all over Europe, especially in Germany and Austria, where Beethoven would catch wind of his rise, for the sole purpose of building the hype. It worked. Beethoven was informed by his friend, Aton Schindler, that he was no longer without performance competitors. Wolfl was about 6 feet tall and had gigantic hands that could stretch a thirteenth on the piano. Beethoven was only 5’3 and 3/4” and could just manage a tenth. He countered this as all good pianists must by using the pedal to sustain the first note and then quickly hitting the second note, if two notes of a tenth or more have to be spanned. Good pedaling technique renders the results nearly indistinguishable.
But the duel played out in much the same fashion as that of the next year, versus Steibelt. Beethoven and Wolfl were evenly matched after the first round, but in the second and third, Beethoven wiped the floor with Wolfl. When it came to improvisation and sight-reading, Beethoven had no equal during his life. Wolfl was much less spoken of in Austria after this encounter.

The rivalry between Liszt and Thalberg lasted from 1836 to 1842, during which time Thalberg made as many concert tours of Europe as Liszt, playing in the same venues, immediately before or after Liszt, in order to show the musical world that he was the greatest pianist in the world.
The fact that their contest lasted as long as it did is a testament to Thalberg’s virtuosity, since every classical pianist of the 20th Century has agreed that none of them, not even Vladimir Horowitz, could hold a candle to Liszt.
Liszt and Thalberg did not follow the traditional duel format as described earlier. Instead they first tried to trounce each other’s popularity throughout Europe with their concert tours. Both were very well admired, and finally they agreed to meet and settle the score. It all came to a head on March 31, 1837. They had both prepared a new composition each, of the most extreme technical demands, neither knowing that the other was preparing a piece of music expressly for their showdown.
When they met and discovered this, they laughed and readied themselves for a heck of a fight. They were watched by about two-dozen close friends and admirers in the Paris salon of Princess Cristina Belgiojoso. They first played a few pieces each that they had played many times in concerts. Liszt played his Grand Galop Chromatique, which Thalberg countered with his fantasy variations on Bellini’s “Norma.”
They then played their grand finales, the new pieces. Thalberg’s was “Fantasy,” Op. 33, on melodies from Rossini’s “Moise.” Liszt’s was “Reminscences de Robert le Diable,” from Meyerbeer. Both pieces are still played today, although Liszt’s is more well-known, but the result of the duel was reported as a toss-up. Both received standing ovations, but, whereas Thalberg had for years been after Liszt’s crown of the greatest pianist in the world, he never again challenged Liszt to a face-to-face duel. They continued to perform throughout Europe enjoying success, but Liszt’s lasted longer.




















Notmykinathingbuokay:L
..any interesting lists coming up?
Piano Duel: Daffy Duck vs Donald Duck (In the movie “Who Framed Roger Rabbit”).
I too half-expected an honorable mention of this at least
Should have made the list.
Johann Strauss the first was very jealous of his son’s (Johann Strauss the second, the one most today are familiar with) talent. That father was presented as quite a selfish, arrogant, unsupportive boor in The Strauss Family series.
Nobody cares who is first.
Agreed we have to knock this “first” crap off it just pushes back intelligent comments. The only reason you’re first is because you type one word.
Agreed, and this list is awful, which makes your comment even more meaningless.
I really do love getting first. The thrill, the rush, time slows down to a screeching halt, as the butterflies in my stomuch feed off my anxiety. How is it possible that ME, ME could be chosen to be first. Was it fate? or simply concideince? Was this just millions years of actions and evolution building up to this one point, the chances of everything happening so perfect almost impossible. Have I been chosen by a higher power? Does he want me for greater things? Is this only the begining, am I to be first agian, am I to try to be 1st, 2nd, 3rd even last? My p3nis stands erect throbbing with pleasure, my n1pples harden as they cover in sweat, my bossoms heaving in and out as if following along with time, each heav meeting pefectly the time of the seconds on a clock, almost as if my heaving bossom is my clock, beating with pleasure. Was the heaving bossom the blue-print for the first clock, or have our bodies changed to meet the seconds on a clock, so no second in life is wasted without pleasure. What is the meaning of life, if not to say “first” if there is a god, I am sure he said “first, I shall create….” or maybe just “first”. God make me more like thee, I shall shout first on every mountian top and the world will know that you are the lord thy god, and that you are the first and last omega, but that i am first on listverse. If darwin is right, let it be known that this is the survival of the species, that he who is not first is possibly last and could wither and die. Was I a clam once? did I grow legs and arms, walk from the ocean create civilizations, fight, conquere, live, and die just to live this one moment of being first.
Nate this ones for you, is it intelligent enough?
You misspelled stomach.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
I am in absolute awe…I…I…
This is without a shadow of a doubt, the most brilliantly written comment I have ever read on an internet forum; bar none, it shines on levels rarely seen in these pages.
And to think that the impetus for such an opus is nothing more than the widespread and highly divisive “First meme”
You rapier wit and wry acerbic style has been a great pleasure to read and if I may be permitted to express myself colloquially; I sure as sh1t wish you will write more…
From now on GrammerNazi is “FIRST”
Ummmm lurker here:
I love this site but I never comment.
Anyways:
regarding the 10th one… As I recall, the Beethoven sonata 19 in g minor is nice, but super super easy…perhaps I parsed the sentence wrong? It’s definately not hard/impressive.
Link:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_Sonatas_Nos._19_and_20_(Beethoven)
Most epic mustache I’ve ever seen . Good list did not know they dueled this hard!?!
I would like this list a whole lot more if it was “7 Classical Piano Duels… to the Death.”
Got me thinking at #4. Hmm…
#4 got me thinking.*
I couldnt help but picture most of these battles taking place at the same place eminem’s battle took place in 8 mile.
And only you could take being first and make yourself a loser!!
I said, Top tenz is better…
Not a bad list. I’m developing an affinity for classical music despite that it can be pretentious. But then, the same goes for progressive rock, which incorporates classical influences. Another notable piano duel….although it falls into the realm of jazz….was the one between 1900 and Jellyroll Morton in the flick “Legend of 1900″.
Imagine Beethoven on his way to the piano battle. Sittin on the bus with his powdered wig hanging out his grey hoodie. Little snippets of piano playing in his head as he writes down the notes. Bobbin his head up and down trying to get that one sick beat so he can get outta the trailer park he lives in with his mom. No more gettin beat up by black people, no more makin car parts, no more moms spaghetti.
I do love classical music. I would have though Mozart would have had more duels…just because his attitude stunk.
Interesting list.
hehe, the arrogant challengers always seem to fail…
I wasn’t expecting much from the title, but I actually enjoyed this list. I had no idea there were piano duels.
Well done.
Don’t know how you do it flamehorse, a topic that i instantly believe wouldn’t interest me in the slightest turns out to be a fascinating read.
Since there seems to be such a strict set of rules for these duels (3 rounds or increasing difficulty) I guess they must have been fairly common. I wonder if Beethoven ever lost a duel…I doubt it.
Never once, but him vs Mozart, both in their primes would have been stupendous.
Liberace vs Freddie Mercury vs Billie Joel?
They’re all g*a*y*s, let’s put Jerry Lee Lewis in there as well!
Nice list
How can i post a list too? I am a new member and I don’t know how to attack pictures to my list!
You don’t have to attach pictures. Jamie Frater, who owns and runs the site, will do so for you. Go to “submit a list,” and follow the instructions.
Everybody wants to be first.
You beat us to the prize this time.
Also, this list needs more Americans in it.
Another absolutely fantastic Flamehorse list!
I love many types of music, but classical is very high on my list of favorites. I’ve always found it amazing that so much great music could come out of such a relatively short period. While I was aware of the competition between musicians during this period (musicians are competitive by nature) I hadn’t read much about these duels. You’ve now ignited a desire to know more about these contests.
Thanks, Flamehorse, for another wonderful list.
You’re welcome, and thanks.
I forgot about this list. It’s been a long time since I wrote it. Thanks to Jamie for posting it.
I really liked this list I must say although maybe that’s just because I play piano
Wonderful list jfratr u must promote dis kinda classical lists
The only one that I am familiar with is No.3, the rivalry of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Muzio Clementi. If you read further on and dig deeper, you will find out that Mozart indeed had an insensate jealousy of Clementi because simply put, Clementi was a much better and more refined pianist than Mozart himself. My father, who was born in Cambridge Massachusetts and lived just a few blocks from Harvard University, studied piano at Harvard’s Longey School Of Music for classical piano and told me that the works of Clementi were everywhere for its musical structure and importance to the teachings of the Piano. Great and fascinating list Flamehorse !!
Flamehorse’s lists get me flamin’ every time. Marry me.
What size shoe do you wear?
37 or 6 (US)
Why? You gonna propose to me with shoes? LOL
A suprisingly interesting Liszt…. I’m so sorry.
Puns are allowed.
That was worth a small chuckle that I’m sure every Listserver is can Handel.
Next, I want you to make banjo duels.
How ’bout “Legend of 1900″ piano duel?
That was SWEET!
When you are reading this dont stop or something bad will happen! {Sorry about this} This girls name is summer shes 15 years old & has blonde hair, Many scars no Nose Or Ears.. She is dead.If you dont copythis just like like from the ring, copy n post on 5 more sites..OR SUMMER WILL APPEAR ONE DARK QUIET NIGHT WHEN UR NOT……………………………..ExPECTING IT BY YOUR BED WITH A KNIFE AND KILL U.THIS IS NO JOKE SOMETHING GOOD WILL HAPPEN TO U IF YOU POST THIS ON 5MORE PAGES
This list may be as cultured as Beethoven himself, but these last 10 lists or so have been sooooo boring.
Frater should have sold this site when someone cared about it.
Then stop f*cking reading it and go back to consuming whatever pop culture crap is rotting away whats left of your tiny brain.
Someone please make a list titled “10 Cool Things I Made Out Of Belly Button Lint”, you can’t do any worse than this site has been latlely.
(nothing personal Flamehorse, your lists are just about the only thing worth reading around here. I doubt you’ll read this, but hey…)
What about Daffy Duck vs. Donald Duck
Daffy Duck vs Donald Duck in “who framed Roger Rabbit?”
Bravo! Excellent list! What about Jelly Roll Morton vs. 1900? I kid.
The statement about Mozart hating Italians is very dubious. I read an biography of him which stated that he loved Italian music, Italian people, and Italian culture. He was more taken with Italian music than the music of his native Germany. I think that statement to his father was meant to be slightly sarcastic/facetious.
“an biography”
Haha. Whoops. Well, my point still stands.
Great list! Must have been quite something to attend one of these musical duels!
That was a really interesting list. I too thought the title hinted at dry content but was pleasantly surprised. Thanks Flamehorse!
Almost became the Beethoven on piano vs any other guy on piano list.
Beethoven sure has a lot of rivals
To 88Kings : Because Beethoven *****ed off a lot of people…..Look it up !!!! Lets just say that he was not the most approachable man in history…….
Anybody who can perform the Piano Works of Alexander Scriabin, gets every ounce of respect from me and then some !!!!
To Flamehorse : My Dad was a concert pianist (strictly amateur, however) and performed in concerts, recitals, competitions etc. He studied part-time at the Longey School of Music on the campus of Harvard University. I had mentioned Muzio Clementi to him at one time (No.3 on the list) and he said that his piano music was all over in that school and was a standard for teaching the basics as well as for the accomplished. Great List by the way and Thank You.
This Daniel Steibelt guy / pianist would have blended in well with the 1980′s Heavy Metal, Head Banging Musicians with his attitude. Calling Beethoven scared of him ? He’s lucky that Beethoven didn’t unleash his historically known temper on him. That would have been like what George Foreman did to Joe Frazier in their first boxing match !!!
How about Rick Wakeman of the rock group YES against Keith Emerson of the rock group EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER !! That I would love to see…..
I play piano and I think its cool that a guy can devote time to play piano. And I love guitar. If you are going to only play rock music though what’s the point of playing piano?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111213223125AAQE0Fd
Why mozart in picture 3 have breast?
And the moral of the story is: Don’t.Ever.Mess.With.Beethoven.
And I AGREE Johan. Beethoven was an intense and focused individual. And talk about a TEMPER !! My God he had one, alright !!!
oouchan, Well, it wasn’t so much that his attitude stunk, but more so his Ego was INFLATED !!
That’s not a portrait of Mozart, it is Clementi. Story has it that Mozart was extremely jealous of him and it has been documented that Clementi was a far better Pianist than Mozart. Which of course, ticked off Mozart beyond belief.
To Flamehorse : I would really like to get to the bottom of one thing. And that is did Clara Wieck Schumann actually have an affair with Johannes Brahms and did Robert Schumann (who died totally insane at the age of 46 in 1856) actually compose any music while in his state of insanity and what was the cause of his going insane. That’s been a lifelong mystery to me.
Your proposed undertaking is impressive, and formidable: I would research thoroughly what’s needed, before proceeding with it.
http://healthreviewtoday.com/ageless-male-muscle-building-review.html
This is an interesting list….for me to poop on
great list. here the other blog that mentioned other “duels” http://silentstring.blogspot.com/2012/01/classical-composer-duels.html
There is an Irish restaurant and pub in Vaughan beside the movie theatre east of Weston Road and Highway 400 that has dueling pianos.
http://www.zimbio.com/African+Mango/articles/UI5jm1vVufO/Advanced+African+Mango+Review+Shedding+Pounds
Reminscences de Robert le Diable wow such power
Really liked this list, got to find some time to listen to these pieces.