Your View: Who Has Done The Most Good

1. B_Rad - July 18th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

I’m pretty sure nobody flew airplanes into the twin towers or goes around terrorizing other countries with suicide bombers, blowing up trains, etc in the name of Jesus Christ. Yeah, there have been a lot of wars based on religion but to say Christianity is the cause is just not accurate because religion, in general, was the cause.

I have a feeling these comments are going to get out of hand. For people like me, Alexander Fleming is no help…I’m allergic to penicillin.

Because I’m a huge baseball fan I’m gonna say Jackie Robinson. I don’t think any explanation is needed for what he did to the game and society.

2. Vera Lynn - July 18th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

Astraya I kicked off cuz of S_R. Do I really make a difference here? Why me? I’m just anyone, girlfriend.

Why does the site read so different? I’;m lost.

3. Cyn - July 18th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

for anyone having difficulty accessing the site, commenting or thinks the page looks kinda funky…there are site problems being addressed. so just be patient. and for more information check in forums.

sorry for any difficulties w/ site access or commenting. your patience and understanding are appreciated. thanx.

4. random arab - July 18th, 2008 at 11:46 pm

George W. Bush

5. meiz - July 18th, 2008 at 11:55 pm

Sidharta Gaotama. His teachings are remarkable and I see things in a wiser perspective bcos of him.

6. MPW - July 19th, 2008 at 12:07 am

This is a tough question, but I will say Martin Luther King Jr.

7. Mary - July 19th, 2008 at 12:10 am

Hulk Hogan. For 20 years he vanquished every nogoodnik in the world: Andre the Giant, the Iron Sheik, Sgt. Slaughter, King Kong Bundy and countless others. He was a tremendous role model to all the children and a real American who fought for the rights of every man.

8. MPW - July 19th, 2008 at 12:11 am

I would also say Jesus, he seemed like a good guy

9. dangorironhide - July 19th, 2008 at 12:26 am

Hard to tell really, different people have done different amounts of good in different fields.

10. dann - July 19th, 2008 at 12:30 am

i think its jesus(but im not christian) or to anybody else who gave the message of love and peace(in case jesus wasnt real)…..i just believed in his message of love, peace, and forgiveness which is far more better and positive than this so-called message of salvation(which started wars and other atrocities, which i think contradicts the message of peace and love) which i think some political and religious cretin made up after his death for the purpose of controlling people…

.his intentions were good, its just after his death…the world seemed to have forgotten this message and instead followed the message of salvation(which indicates self-interest) in order to get to heaven…i know this because i have seen these people and they just judge, hate, hold grudges, kill people, commit unnatural acts…all in the name of god and salvation

even though..i still think this message of love is never forgotten(even if it is seldomly followed)..there are still some people like us, that even if we do not go to church, read the bible or follow the ten commandments…we know the true message of love, peace, and forgiveness better than those who DO read the bible, go to church, and follow the ten commandments(who i presume, give more importance to the message of salvation than the other message)…..well thats how he impacted people’s lives until now

11. Tempyra - July 19th, 2008 at 12:38 am

I have no idea right now… let me think about it for a few days

jfrater - I suspect they’re quite hard to find but you can buy some unpasteurised cheeses in NZ. Depends what sort you want and how much it’s worth to you I guess.

http://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/dairy.....awmilk.htm

12. Blogball - July 19th, 2008 at 12:39 am

This s a great topic and so wide open to so many individuals, plus it’s very subjective and will most likely be the opinion of ones own agenda except for myself because I’m above all of that (just kidding of course)
Anyway for my # 1 pick I’m going along with B_Rad.
Talk about a great first comment. B_Rad is thinking I’m allergic to that stuff (penicillin) so I’m going with Jackie Robinson. I have to admit I was thinking about him too and I’m not even allergic to penicillin so what does that say about me?

There are so many great people that have given so much so we can live the way we are living that it’s just impossible to commit to one person. So I would say Jackie Robinson is one of many.

13. Thomas - July 19th, 2008 at 12:44 am

NOT JESUS, since the middle ages, most of the killed people were killed in the name of the lord, i’d say: GEORGE CARLIN, think think about it…

14. sng. Sheep - July 19th, 2008 at 12:44 am

Ok, i tried googleing the guy but i just couldn’t find him, he’s been in the news rescently. Aparently he donated 4billion dollars anonymously, and only admited doing so when he was found out [plans on giving 4more]:)

To me this has to be the most selfless philantropist today, and somehow givs me hope that will survive this millenia :))

To me this guy isn’t the most important in the world in general but more of today, cuz he gives hope, and is that not sucha basic thing…..and midget p*rn :))

15. sng. Sheep - July 19th, 2008 at 12:46 am

basic human thing*

16. ohrmets - July 19th, 2008 at 1:44 am

Norman Borlaug

He is an American agronomist who, in the 1950’s and 1960’s developed new strains of wheat that were resistant to disease and also very high-yielding. These genetically-modified crops were so successful that he is widely credited with saving perhaps A BILLION PEOPLE from starvation. Also, as a result, countries such as Pakistan and India became not only self-sufficient in food production, but became exporters, thus helping improve the global economy. He very deservedly won a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts. This amazing man is definitely not a household name, but his achievements have undoubtedly done the most good for the greatest number of people in the 20th century, if not in the entirety of human history. His story is also a big middle-finger to those who protest genetically-modified food and fail to see the obvious benefits of its implementation. Penn and Teller’s TV show “Bullshit” even profiled him in an episode, calling him the “greatest human being” in history. Check him out on Wikipedia or just Google him for more.

17. Rachel - July 19th, 2008 at 1:58 am

To number 1,
WTF buddy?

A baseball player???? I couldn’t even tell you what team he played for. Yeah, he got to play baseball which was breaking a racial barrier, whatever. What about Martin Luther King, or Susan B Anthony. JFK? Ghandi?
I’m going with Batman.

People kill in the name of Jesus everyday.
Jackie F*cking Robinson! Sheesh re-re.

18. thematic - July 19th, 2008 at 1:59 am

Charles Darwin 1809-1882.

Contributed enormously to the advancement of human understanding of the natural world which was the catalyst to enlighten generations, laying the foundation of modern biology and for bringing science to the fore.

Without Darwin we would just have “goddidit”

19. JK - July 19th, 2008 at 2:00 am

G.W Bush - Part 2 (means .jr)

just kiddin.

I cant Decide.

And yeah, did no-one say einstein ?!

Like Tempyra said, Let me think over it and I’ll give my simple one word answer later. Hopefully.

It would be easier for a lot of us to decide if you provided some options, like in a poll. But mainly, the question is not right, it should be much more specific than this.

20. Lori - July 19th, 2008 at 2:04 am

I’m serious. Hitler. I love everyone, but think about it.

21. ringtailroxy - July 19th, 2008 at 2:41 am

wow. to answer this-one has to realize that there are agreat many, many, wondrous and amazing individuals who changed the way we all live, for better or worse! to name a;; is likened to counting all the grains of sand on Ft. Lauderdale beach!

Science:
Sir Alfred Russel Wallace. Although Charles Darwin wrote Origin of Species, he was pen-pals with this young naturalist who was beginning to come up with the same conclusions concerning ‘decent with modification’ that Darwin had had… Wallace was a young whipper-snapper, and was actively in the field, conducting research, braving the wilderness, and writing his finding to Darwin. Darwin got a little perturbed, and hastily jotted out his famous work prior to Wallace doing anything of the sort. But the actually theory of evolution is as much his as it was Darwin’s.

22. Tempyra - July 19th, 2008 at 3:16 am

I’m thinking maybe the person who invented the printing press did the world a pretty big favour. Dunno who it was or even if it was an individual or group effort.

23. romerozombie - July 19th, 2008 at 3:42 am

I’m gonna go with Alexander Fleming, too. My answer for the Your View topic for what do you think is the greatest invention was penicillin.

24. romerozombie - July 19th, 2008 at 3:44 am

James: Jesus? If you’re not just being a troll, please elaborate.

25. romerozombie - July 19th, 2008 at 3:44 am

OMG my comments are going back in time.

26. avi - July 19th, 2008 at 3:47 am

What meiz said.

27. jake ryder - July 19th, 2008 at 3:53 am

Tempyra - Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press and it is an excellent choice.

28. astraya - July 19th, 2008 at 4:51 am

Gutenburg. (Or whoever else(s) was responsible for movable-type printing.)

29. dave4248 - July 19th, 2008 at 4:57 am

Johannes Gutenberg, hands down. The other inventions and scientific discoveries are great and those folks deserve credit. None of them would have been made, or made so early, without Gutenberg’s printing press. It revolutionized education and the sharing of information.

30. jack - July 19th, 2008 at 5:13 am

Aaron - You are seriously mistaken. You don’t want to know the type of place this would be without Jesus.

31. James - July 19th, 2008 at 5:17 am

This might create some arguments but I say Jesus.

32. Aaron - July 19th, 2008 at 5:17 am

Oh wow, I have no idea what to say to this because all of the good in the world is a collective of the many efforts of many people.

I would have to say though, if I had to pick one person it would probably be Martin Luther King Jr. I think one of the most important things we have is a country (I am referring to the United States) where people are equal regardless of race and skin color, and I think that is largely due to Dr.King’s dreams and leadership

33. elianara - July 19th, 2008 at 5:20 am

I’ll say Florence Nightingale, “the lady with the lamp”. Just by introducing common hygiene she improved hospital conditions, and saved many lives. She founded the modern nursing profession. She was an excellent mathematician and a feminist too.

34. Aaron - July 19th, 2008 at 5:20 am

Okay, first argument. I believe (not being a Christian myself) that Jesus, as a historical figure did a lot of good in terms of spreading a message of love and peace, and I give him credit for that, but I think, unfortunatly, there has been a lot of horrible things done in the name of Christianity. Whether or not it’s fair to blame any of that on Jesus it sort of irrelevant because despite the good things which I believe he tried to do, I sometimes wonder if the world might have been a better place without him.

35. Vera Lynn - July 19th, 2008 at 5:26 am

G-d

Don’t tell S_R.
Teasin’

36. astraya - July 19th, 2008 at 5:28 am

Jamie Frater!!!!
(Wait, let me think about that one!)
Hi, Vera. Take a look at “top posters” and get posting. Your LU family needs you.

37. Dante - July 19th, 2008 at 5:31 am

Hitler!!

Just kiddin’. Aaron, don’t be dissin’ JC.

38. Grubermeister - July 19th, 2008 at 5:31 am

After many minutes of thinking, I would have to say that Batman has done the most good (atleast for me personally). I mean he helped clean up my hometown of Gotham City from countless thugs and robbers and many bigger, badder criminals like The Joker, Two-Face, The Penguin, and The Riddler. He has been a real savior for me and helps me feel safe every day.

39. jack - July 19th, 2008 at 5:32 am

Jesus Christ saved every single one of us. Enough said.

40. Kreachure - July 19th, 2008 at 6:16 am

I’m gonna have to think about this one, so I’ll say this for now:

Cyn said:

“my current time is 2:00amish CST. Saturday.”

Amish time? I don’t expect that to be too accurate…

41. Cyn - July 19th, 2008 at 6:23 am

Kreachure -
had some site probs overnite. there were testing comments that have since been deleted. all should be right in the list universe now.

42. Kreachure - July 19th, 2008 at 6:38 am

Cyn: Er, okay, good… I guess my Amish joke failed miserably.

Amish? Get it? No? Fine. My bad.

43. JB - July 19th, 2008 at 6:40 am

Neron, Caligula and Hernán Cortés (:P kidding)

JK: About Einstein. People nowadays still think in a Newtonian point of view. Einstein isn’t anything more than a funny genius image to ilustrate science in XX century. There will be a huge change in society when people’ll be able to understand modern physics. Even Einstein couldn’t assimilate the change he started. It’s like: “forget about everything you thought knowing. Quantum mechanics is real, and your computer is working thanks to it.”

I hate to say that, but maybe the gratest chanches were done by some ancient philosophers from Socrates till René Descartes.

And really, by the terms describing the topic: Hitler could be one of them. His madness made the whole world think about a huge change in society, trying to make a better one where no more Hitlers can exist nor climb to the power.

44. Cyn - July 19th, 2008 at 6:47 am

Kreachure -
ROFLMAO! better now?

sorry. my head was elsewhere.

45. Kreachure - July 19th, 2008 at 6:47 am

Oh right, Norman Borlaug! Thanks for reminding me, ohrmets.

That episode of “Bullshit!” certainly gave a good defense for that man. They said that thanks to his efforts, a billion people were saved from starvation. So my vote’s for him (not that you get to make a single vote in here… )

46. romerozombie - July 19th, 2008 at 6:49 am

Jack: No, he didn’t. He ’saved’ some gullible morons.

47. Eric from Canada - July 19th, 2008 at 7:00 am

I would say Fredrick Banting (not sure of spelling) or Charles Louis Alphonse Laveran.

Banting was a Canadian chemist who invented Insulin, without this millions of people would die from Diabetes every year, wiht the growing obesity rate in the U.S. more people are becoming diabetic.

Laveran was a French (I think) scientist who discovered that Malaria was transported by mosquitoes, before that almost nothign was known about the disease. More than half a billion people contract Malaria every year and all of them would die wihtout treatment, treatment that wouldnt be possible without Laveran’s work.

48. Chickensoup - July 19th, 2008 at 7:02 am

“Jesus Christ saved every single one of us. Enough said.”

Every one of us who happens to be a Christian. Te rest of us burn, remember?

I think Leonardo Da Vinci and William Beveridge both deserve a mention. Churchill maybe; he was certainly the right guy in the right place at the right time.

49. jake - July 19th, 2008 at 7:07 am

jesus christ , martin luther king jr. these to guys were killed for what they belived peace and love and unity i really thing that that they were tryen two amazing men that will always influsence others, theres no need in saying bad things about jesus because he truly was a good person and if u read about him u will see that he gave great speaches on peace and love and Martin luther king jr. was such a big part of civil rights…….

i belive that there are meny great people out there that want to help there fellow man but these are my two

50. Mom424 - July 19th, 2008 at 7:11 am

The topic is too broad to pick just one person. It entirely depends on the criteria or definition of good. In the broad sense or the narrow?

Solon and Pericles for the foundations of democracy; where power is hinged on achievement and not an accident of birth. One man - One Vote, where would we be without it?

Rene Descartes for the modern (Plato did if first) principal of rationalism; that truth is discovered by reason and fact, not faith or belief. He also invented analytical geometry - the basis for calculus, was the first to short form math problems by using little number to signify exponents, ie - x to the power of 3. or X3 (sorry no math key board, can’t show you correctly what I mean). Without him we wouldn’t have computers or thinking machines. (his term)

Pasteur, not only for pasteurization but for the entire germ theory of disease; illness caused not by humors but by microorganisms. No such thing as spontaneous generation.

Gutenberg for the printing press and the dissemination of knowledge.

And I haven’t even touched on present day.

51. bwmyers18 - July 19th, 2008 at 7:13 am

Besides the obvious Jesus ….

I think no one person is responsible for bringing more laughter, joy, and smiles into children all over the world than Walter Elias Disney. Walt’s works are timeless and there is not a country on the planet that hasn’t had its children touched in some way by the magic that is Disney.

52. Syras - July 19th, 2008 at 7:34 am

The person I would nominate has neither name nor face. It is the prehistoric man who invented the WHEEL. Without the WHEEL and all it represents to transportation and technology thoroughout the ages for tens of thousands of years, we would all still be living in trees and caves, killing what we eat with handmade spears. Let’s give some credit to the inventor of the WHEEL, for no one in the history of the Nobel Prize (in any field) would have had that opportunity to advance humanity without the WHEEL!!!!! Amen.

53. alex - July 19th, 2008 at 7:36 am

romerozombie - keep telling yourself that.

54. jack - July 19th, 2008 at 7:37 am

romerozombie - keep telling yourself that.

Chickensoup - Did i say that? didn’t think so. I don’t happen to be one of those christians.

55. indy5 - July 19th, 2008 at 7:43 am

isaac newton. for every bit of modern technology we enjoy today, his discoveries are at the basis.

thomas jefferson. he put into words some pretty radical ideas that are considered mainstream today.

mlk. for putting right one of the great wrongs here in the US.

another vote for darwin, gutenberg, des cartes and socrates.

Ibn al-Haytham, father of the scientific method.

56. Clantargh - July 19th, 2008 at 7:46 am

Thomas Jefferson

57. jfrater - July 19th, 2008 at 7:47 am

S_R won’t be posting. He is banned forever from the site.

58. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 7:54 am

jfr, (60),

Pity you only able to ban him from this site.

59. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 7:55 am

add ‘are’ as appropriate.

60. Kreachure - July 19th, 2008 at 8:04 am

OH OH OH!

I vote for Socrates and Descartes too! I love those guys!

And Plato. He rocks too.

61. Mom424 - July 19th, 2008 at 8:05 am

bwmyers; Walt Disney? A friend and informer for Joe McCarthy? A paranoid, communist in every corner, micro-managing, sweat-shop running mogul? THAT Walt Disney?

Davey Crockett and Cinderella hardly make up for the man’s excesses.

62. Randall - July 19th, 2008 at 8:16 am

Bravo to Ohrmets’ choice of Norman Borlaug!

When I was a kid, there was this doomsayer Paul Erlich (I have no idea if he’s still around and I have no inclination to go look him up, because he hardly needs more publicity). Anyway, Ehrlich wrote several bestsellers and was the recipient of many an award and grant for his pronouncements that we, as a species, were headed for horrific disaster well before the end of the 20th century (he was writing in the late 60s and early 70s, and continued publishing, I think, until the 80s, unless I’m mistaken) from overpopulation and the lack of food. He made a living (literally–his books were huge) off of scaring people and making his predictions of horror, based on only the most limited science. But what this so-called genius failed to do was take into consideration the advancements that science was making in the field of agriculture, (primarily the work of the aforementioned Norman Borlaug) as well as in other fields where science was going after the problems Ehrlich said we’d succumb to.

Ehrlich, of course, was proven entirely wrong. Our world did not collapse from famine and disease and war by the 1990s–and it was in large part due to men like Norman Borlaug. Ehrlich’s failing is that he never foresaw the reality of what mankind can do when they strive to better situations; Borlaug’s success is all around us, not only here in the US but around the world. And agricultural sciences continue, in his wake, to make things better and better. Ehrlich sold bestsellers; Borlaug has a place secured for himself in history that’s worth far more.

Now after all that, I ought to give my own answer to this question. It would be simplest to back up Ohrmets and say that I feel Norman Borlaug has done the most good. But in the interests of variety, I could also say that Alexander Fleming, Jonas Salk, Louis Pasteur and their like are also deserving of the recognition. In fact, there are countless scientists throughout human history, going back to the ancient Greeks, who have done great good for humanity, sometimes in a deeply practical sense like Borlaug and Pasteur, and some in that they simply opened all of our minds to possibilities and new questions and so on. Not all science brings us good things, of course. It also brought us the atom bomb, and countless other nasties.

I will throw in the towel on this one then, and simply pick the name of one of my personal heroes when I was growing up:
Jacques Cousteau.

My family has always loved the ocean, and we’re a family of sailors and water-sports-enthusiasts. But what many younger people may not know when they see documentaries right and left on television, and have grown up with “Shark Week” and such, is that there was a time when few paid attention to the life of the sea–and as we have begun to learn (some of us don’t yet accept it) the sea is key to our own survival. Jacques Cousteau was one of the first to go out to study the ocean directly (he wasn’t even a trained scientist when he began–but in those days it was unheard of for even trained scientist to embark *on* the ocean–let alone dive under it–to study and learn) and he popularized the sciences of oceanography and marine biology for generations. He was an outspoken supporter of conservation and the importance of protecting the oceans and the life within. Without his contribution to not only our knowledge, but our awareness, we might today be living in a far worse world of more heavily polluted water and far more extinct species. As it is we still face a lot of crises caused by our treatment of the oceans and our practices of over-fishing and such. But Cousteau awakened the consciousness of countless people who followed him and devoted their lives to protecting that resource, and that, in turn, helps to protect our own species’ survival.

Not quite the same contribution of a man like Norman Borlaug, but I think it ranks up there.

63. JOE BLACKK - July 19th, 2008 at 8:17 am

MPW: JESUS that was a good one. I don’t know if it’s fair to put him in here because come on, ….and plus we know the stories but can we honestly say for a fact that we KNOW thet’re true. think about it……Now Chuck Norris..that guy…yeahh. J/k i reallly can’t choose just one person so i won’t try wrecking my brain.

64. Kreachure - July 19th, 2008 at 8:20 am

Yay! One more vote for Borlaug!

65. massoluk - July 19th, 2008 at 8:27 am

Sorry, I don’t buy Jesus. He wasn’t even known to 3/4 of the world’s population.

I say Tesla for electricity generation or Gutenberg for western printing press.

66. thematic - July 19th, 2008 at 8:35 am

Strangely an interesting point has been made by JB on comment no46 regarding Hitler,

By the logic of the topic question JB is correct but conversely Jesus, although trying to make the world a better place, left a legacy that still causes bigotry and suffering throughout the world.

It’s a strange old world indeed!

67. Bill - July 19th, 2008 at 8:44 am

Nikola Tesla… If it wasn’t for him, you wouldn’t be able to read this, much less use a computer; your cellphone would be a paperweight, we would have DC electricity rather than AC electricity, and we wouldn’t have death-ray’s orbiting the Earth to protect us against Russian nuclear attack, and so much more! Yeah, we had generators before him, but he explained HOW the magnetic coils make the electrical generators work. That germaphobic Serbian Mad-Scientist has my vote!!!

68. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 9:10 am

What exactly does ‘done good’ mean?

Charles Darwin, great philosophers and others, as also Jesus, enlightened or influenced us. Is that actually ‘doing good’?

And if wonderful medical and agronomical advances also lead unintentionally to overpopulation and attendant problems (O.K. I appreciate others don’t accept the existence of this, please take that as read), has that ‘done good’ in sum? Printing lead as equally to ‘Mein Kampf’ as to the bible.

Aaron (34) also has it in a nutshell in the first sentence. Also Mom424 (53).

Assuming though we mean unqualified good whilst ignoring ‘bad side effects’, and ignore collective contributions and those of the anonymous ancients:

Anita suggests Ghandi (a second mention, I think), and I also immediately thought of him. His rejection of violence may have saved lives beyond estimation. He also proved passive resistance can work (under certain circumstances, as he himself admitted). But to some extent his success is ’shared’ by the relative ‘reasonableness’ of the British. The problem also is; too few have followed his shining example.

I’d like to move Ghandi into wider perspective and make what for most will be a rather unexpected joint nomination, I suspect: Emmanuel Kant and Woodrow Wilson. Great ideas will out, but always have a first or most famous proponent. In 1795 Kant published the philosophical idea of a world order for peace (some might find his German nationality more than a little ironic). Wilson is the person most associated with its first practical application, The League of Nations. Please spare us a trashing of that well-meaning but often ineffectual organisation. It led to the United Nations, which has been a great advance, even if also inevitably flawed. My point is that taking into account all aspects of the present evolution of human civilisation, we only have hope for the future in the presence of such a forum for world order and agreement.

bwmyers (18),

Watch out! The Big Bad Wolf (Randall) is on your trail. He’s going to huff and he’s going to puff and he’s going to blow your house right down.

ringtailroxy (21),

I’m glad to see Alfred Russel Wallace here, a hero of mine (together with Darwin). I think he perhaps belongs as a candidate for the 10 people most neglected by history. At least people like Ed Wilson and David Quammen shout for him.

Incidentally, for those who ask what sort of world we would be living in without Jesus, please take a look at Greek civilisation, which came first. There are others too.

69. Ironman - July 19th, 2008 at 9:27 am

i cant believe two people already said geroge bush
come on, we can do better

70. romerozombie - July 19th, 2008 at 9:30 am

I sure will, Alex and James. Gee, it sure is swell living a life with morals but without all the God-fearing crap and the worrying about where I go when I die.

71. segue - July 19th, 2008 at 9:36 am

I have two answers, both of whom popped into my mind simultaneously, and there is no way for me to choose between the two.
So you get both.
John Snow.
He found himself in the middle of a major cholera epidemic, and nothing he could do, as a doctor, was helping to save his patients. What he knew he needed way a way to stop the epidemic; to find it’s source, and to somehow stop it from interacting with the public.
Through rigorous, logical analysis of all the facts he could gather, he became histories first epidemiologist. He tracked the outbreak to *one* public drinking-water well, which was polluted with raw sewage. He had the pump shut down immediately.
No further cases of cholera were reported.
His methods are still being used by Public Health Organizations worldwide. The number of lives he has saved is countless.
*
Edward Jenner.
Smallpox was a terrible scourge in his day. Jenner, and hundreds of other doctors and scientists were working feverishly on a way to stop, or lessen the effects of, the disease.
Jenner noticed that the neighborhood milk-maids did not come down with smallpox, even during raging epidemics. Experiments led to the discovery that cowpox, an extremely mild, related, disease common among milkmainds, gave immunity, and further experimentation led him to create live vaccines.
Smallpox vaccines began slowly, people being afraid of taking a “pox” voluntarily into their body, but when Kings and Queens and their children did so, in public, others followed.
Jenner’s efforts led directly to the WHO’s campaign to eradicate smallpox, among the deadliest of all contagious diseases, which was successful less than 200 years later.

72. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 9:39 am

Randall,

Before I start to send blood to your eyes, can I say what an inspired addition I find Cousteau to be. As a land-based nature freak, it’s all too easy for me to overlook him. But he was a key figure in my early TV viewing, and always an influential pioneer in publicising the vital importance of the marine component of the biosphere.

Next a gentle reminder. Don’t get over-optimistic or knock Ehrlich so hard. Human population growth right now is exponential and showing no sign of slowing globally. An undeniable statistic. That means for obvious reasons we also need exponential Borlaugs (i.e. to achieve the equivalent, not necessarily the same as Borlaug). On this unexpandable and unescapable planet of fixed natural resources we also need these Borlaugs to work the same technological miracles for fresh water, fuel, wood for construction, several minerals, inter alia, and also to rid us of pollution.

I can only offer the following off the top of my head, but believe I’m right in saying that world emergency food stocks stood at several weeks supply around the time Ehrlich was writing. I recall hearing or reading somewhere recently that they are now dangerously down to a few days. If anyone can deny, modify or add backbone to that, I’d be grateful.

Sorry, I didn’t start this diversionary theme.

73. Mom424 - July 19th, 2008 at 9:42 am

Randall: Kudo’s for the mentioning of Cousteau. Our family counted the days ’til the next Jacques Cousteau special. Was a scuba pioneer and underwater spy too wasn’t he? for the good side? In WWII?

Spanner in the Works: If Wilson ranks (and I’m not disagreeing) an argument could also be made of Nobel Peace Prize Winner, Lester B. Pearson. One of the founders of The United Nations, The father of UN Peacekeeping, and he likely saved the world from another war when he brokered an end to the Suez Crisis (for which he was awarded the nobel). He also, in our little corner of the world, instituted universal health care, student loan programs and the Canada Pension Plan that provides income in retirement for all working Canadians. A visionary.

74. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 10:02 am

Randall,

I propose we both leave this debate where it is, having said our bits, for the sake of everyone else. Because if you keep on shredding Ehrich, I shall end up doing the same to a certain cynical publicist called Robert Siricco, who supports your view to the hilt. He is a scientific ignoramus in the pay of Big Business and its conservative political ‘fellow travellers’. He claims, in effect, that nothing at all is going wrong environmentally on this earth as a result of human activity (except that of socialists and communists). All we have to do, he tells us, is to keep business going as usual and breed as hard and fast as we can (at the command of God via the Bible) to solve all our problems.

I’m sorry. That call for pax wasn’t really fair, since I’ve just taken an extra bite at the theme.

75. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 10:09 am

Mom424,

Yes, oh yes. I’ll gladly accept Lester and make that a triple nomination, even if it does carry us into collectivity, which I felt I ought to try to avoid!

Couldn’t you do a memorable Canadians list? It would have to have one of my favourites though, the crazy fighter pilot ace George ‘Screwball’ Buerling.

I think you were asking about spotty herberts over on the other site, yes? If so, zits it is.

76. Mark - July 19th, 2008 at 10:25 am

Jesus

77. jack - July 19th, 2008 at 10:45 am

romerozombie - Whatever floats your boat there pal.

78. YogiBarrister - July 19th, 2008 at 10:56 am

William Shakespeare

79. imanalien - July 19th, 2008 at 11:22 am

Jesus
———————————
for modern times (last several hundred years)

Abraham Lincoln: he saved the Union and it still affects our country today. Why is that so much for the world? He change the course of the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! f.uck all you who say America sucks!

80. goof_ball - July 19th, 2008 at 11:25 am

I dont know. Um… ME! hahaha kidding
How about Bob Barker? Hes provided entertainment for forever.

81. gr8flddfn - July 19th, 2008 at 11:30 am

with being a diabetic i’d have to say dr. banting and dr. best and their team of scientists that discovered insulin.

82. Razzle-Dazzle - July 19th, 2008 at 11:39 am

I have read all 85 post to this point, and I agree with Syras #55. In the evolution of humankind, without the wheel, we are NOTHING!!!!

83. Gravy - July 19th, 2008 at 11:52 am

Martin Luther king jr

Or kurt cobain

84. Cedestra - July 19th, 2008 at 11:53 am

Hmm, no one’s mentioned the Dalai Lama yet? A man who tirelessly promotes peach, harmony, and understanding. I would say he’s done the most good (?that sounds terrible) to mankind. Most others I would have picked have been picked. Or I would have picked them if I had known. Borlaug, DeCartes, Einstein, MLK Jr., yeah, I’ll even go with Jesus. He was a groovy guy who had some good things to say.

85. billyishere - July 19th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

sorry, not anyone that has to do with any kind of religeon.
the idea of religeon is great but it is true that it caused war.
and why do people keep saying Jesus when it’s obvious that people are gonna argue here.

and hitler has technically done good because he’s shown the world that we shouldn’t be close minded, mass murdering bastards

86. billyishere - July 19th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

sorry, not anyone that has to do with any kind of religion.
the idea of religion is great but it is true that it caused war.
and why do people keep saying Jesus when it’s obvious that people are gonna argue here.

and hitler has technically done good because he’s shown the world that we shouldn’t be close minded, mass murdering bastards

87. YogiBarrister - July 19th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

The person who has done the most good for humanity is obviously Lucy.

88. rolf_in_china - July 19th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

Nelson Mandela, for showing the world that it is ok being a terrorist, bombing your black brothers, showing no remorse and getting away with it.

89. RockNTheFreeWorld - July 19th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Thomas Paine. Modern Democracy around the world owes it’s existence to him, and most modern political theory has some basis in his writings.

90. John - July 19th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

The idea here is to choose one person. It’s certainly difficult to choose only one. I don’t think it’s possible. There are so many individuals who have done great things for society. How can we choose only one? It’s like the farce of the Academy Awards…Best actor, Best picture, Best director.

91. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

Randall,

If you care to discuss or pispute the Ehrlich theme, I’ll see you over at the Your View: Global Warming site, where I believe the topic belongs.

92. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

dispute, I’m just going out … in a hurry.

93. Riya B. - July 19th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

Well, this subject is too broad for one person, so I guess the pickings for me would have to be…
Abraham Lincoln
Nelson Mandela
Martin Luther King,Jr.
Batman(if you include the cartoons)
The Dalai Lama
And Jesus should at the least deserve and honorable mention.

94. name - July 19th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Pontius Pilate

95. Wooty - July 19th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

No, Riya B, Jesus should be at the top of the list.

96. WarningDontReadThis - July 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

Jfrater sure knows how to ask the easy questions. I can’t even being to think of someone…
Johannes Gutenberg, cause I like books.

But I gotta say something jfray, if you think you’re going to reverse negative comments by asking who has done the most good. You’re a bit naive.
Some people just can’t behave. But I think most of the LV crowd will.

I’m very intrested in what I’ll learn from the comments though.

97. WarningDontReadThis - July 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

Richard Dawkins.

xD

98. Csimmons - July 19th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

well, I would have to say…..martin luther king JR., for some obvious reasons, I would also put in anyone who helped with the civil rights movement. and Nelson Mandela. there is my 2 cents.

99. Joe - July 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

Look, this planet was set up with processes that keep the population in check. It was a good system so why are you picking people who mess it up like Pasteur and Flemming? I’m going to go with people who entertain us like Shakespeare or enlighten us like the Buddha or feed us like Borlaug. BTW, Jesus gave us some good suggestions but didn’t tell us how to do what he suggested. You don’t have to look very far to see Christianity doesn’t work.

100. Eric Gmeinder - July 19th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

I can find 105 noble people:

Jane Addams
Susan B. Anthony & Elizabeth Cady Stanton
[Ridiculously long list cut]

101. MiSaNtHrOpE - July 19th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

So few people have actually done good things…

-Jesus tried and was swiftly corrupted.
-Muhammed was pulled by his entrails into a gutter and now many who follow him simply want to kill and be killed
-Ayn Rand became a parody of her own philosophy

Henry David Thoreau comes to mind. In Walden and Civil Disobedience, he tells people specifically NOT to follow him. In a seemingly eternal age where megalomaniacs are desperate for followers and enemies to destroy, the request to not be followed carries great weight and humility.

102. Girl - July 19th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

The Buddha. What wars were started in his name? What people killed or places destroyed by his followers? Buddhism never claims to be higher than any other religion or slanders the names of other teachers.

103. B_Rad - July 19th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

I’m not even going to waste my time with someone who picks Batman as the one who has done the most good for society =)

Come on, go turn on the news and count the number of times you see something about a terrorist blowing something up in the name of Jesus and the same for in the name of Muhammad. I don’t even know how my comment was #1, it was in response to another comment. Anyways, Jackie Robinson is right up there with MLK though. He’s the only player to EVER have his # retired from every team! That means something.

104. chuckiebtoo - July 19th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

No entity can compare with Jesus Christ because the good continues and will continue eternally.

For one man doing about all he could do in a lifetime, Dr Michael Debakey was amazing. Innumerable medical techniques, inventions, procedures. Sixty thousand (60,000) heart surgeries in a SEVENTY year career.

Most of humanity can’t do 60,000 things in 70 years….much less heart surgeries.

105. segue - July 19th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

****
104. Eric Gmeinder
I can find 105 noble people:
****
Eric: I’m not sure if I misunderstood the point of the question, or you did, but I had 2 people’s names and offerings come to mind without having to “find” them.
I included both names and what they did to earn a spot on the list of Who Has Done The Most Good.
With your list, we’ve got 105 names and no reason for their inclusion.

106. k1w1taxi - July 19th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Cedestra (88) If I was one of the more strident types here I would say “Your F*ing joking right?”. But I’m not so I will merely ask whether The Dalai Lama has actually had any Effect with his preaching. From my viewpoint it would seem that it is only very minor, certainly not Earth Changing. Not saying he’s bad or wrong just, in this context, irrelevant.

Re: The Borlaug supporters. You would support someone who is a proponent of Genetic modification tsk tsk. Guess you’re all off the Greenpeace Xmas card list.

My pick: The Wheel guy whoever he may have been. It all comes back to that.

Cheers
Lee

107. Jill Watson - July 19th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

1. whoever discovered how to make fire
2. whoever invented the wheel
3. whoever decided to slice bread

Duh.

Anyone who started a religion or political party should be immediately disqualified.

Religions kill more people than heart disease, AIDS, cancer, and malaria combined.

108. TicoTuanis - July 19th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

Jesus but besides him has anyone said the United States Marines?

109. massoluk - July 19th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

OK, take a breath and step back. Who good exactly have Martin Luther King Jr., Abraham Lincoln, and Dalai Lama actually accomplished for the WHOLE world? The WORLD.

PS: Dalai Lama and his cronies are hypocrites who only rejected fund for guerrilla training from CIA after it was about to be uncovered. His regime are absolute monarchy where most of his citizens lived in poverty.

110. BHazed - July 19th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

Bill Gates

111. BHazed - July 19th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

think about it, jobs, school, medical care, anything without computers in this day, the world wouldn’t be anything like it is now

112. Chickensoup - July 19th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

“Did i say that? didn’t think so. I don’t happen to be one of those christians.”

You didn’t say that atheists would burn in Hell. God did.

“Dalai Lama and his cronies are hypocrites who only rejected fund for guerrilla training from CIA after it was about to be uncovered.”
Dire times call for dire faces. Fuck China, free Tibet.

“His regime are absolute monarchy where most of his citizens lived in poverty.”
And still do. China if anything has made the situation worse, with the added bonus of being controlled by an oppresseive, genocidal regime.

113. BooRadley - July 19th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

The person I most admire and wish to emulate is Mother Teresa. She worked tirelessly, thanklessly, anonymously (for the most part) and whole-heartedly to bring some semblance of comfort and hope to a people ignored or even hated by the rest of the world. She put Jesus’ words into action and ministered to the poor, the starving, the sick, the elderly, the outcasts… What a beautiful testimony she remains for human goodness. Her fellow nuns carry on with her work now that she is gone. Would that we all had God’s love in our hearts as she did…

114. hollis - July 19th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

Big shoutout and thank you to…

Margaret Sanger.

115. jfrater - July 19th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

hollis: you do realize that Sanger was a racist who favored the idea of executing disabled people for racial purity right? Pretty much the same idea that Hitler had some years later.

116. jfrater - July 19th, 2008 at 6:59 pm

oh - hollis, check out item 6 on this list.

117. Ro - July 19th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

1) God
2)MLK
3)Michael Jordan

Okay, the third choice was a joke……………or perhaps not.

Mr.Frater also did an incredible job creating this site, I would put him at 7056.

118. jfrater - July 19th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

Tempyra (11): you are right that you can buy some - Roquefort and Parmesan are the two main ones that come to mind, but it is illegal in NZ thanks to Annette King from the labour party, to produce any cheese here without pasteurization or a very similar type or treatment. This means that NZ can not compete (quality or pricewise) with the international cheese market for unpasteurized cheeses. This is a great shame as NZ has such a good dairy industry.

119. Spanner in the works - July 19th, 2008 at 7:18 pm

Am I allowed one silly entry?

The Earl of Sandwich.

Without his serendipitous discovery MacDonald’s would never have come into existence.

Hey. What list is this???? What person has done the most evil for society ????? Have I got it wrong ????

(Thinks) Good job they don’t know my real name and details.

120. Christian - July 19th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

Mother Teresa - outstanding contributions to our messed up world.

121. nikki - July 19th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

hmmm. . .that is a tough question. alexander fleming did do a lot of good, but i’m allergic to penicillin. boo. in my opinion in no particular order: Walt Disney, Ghandi, and Edwin Herbert Land

122. Black Missile - July 19th, 2008 at 8:57 pm

My divorce attorney who was able to get me SOLE custody for my beautiful babies. Away from a man who was not abusive to the children, but brutally abusive to their Mother (me).

Yeah, make the jokes. Everybody hates lawyers, until you need one.

123. handyman - July 19th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

idk if anyone said this already but. i think george washington carver. he made some many things from simple beans. alot of things we take for granted. also ben franklin

124. ohrmets - July 19th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

k1w1taxi,

I am a big proponent of any kind of science that saves A BILLION PEOPLE from starving to death. It doesn’t matter if its genetically modified or not. All these GM-phobes are woefully ill-informed anyways.

I reiterate my vote for Norman Borlaug.

125. cb - July 19th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

Epicurus!

For his excellent positive philosophy

126. Aaron - July 19th, 2008 at 11:21 pm

I haven’t read through all of these comments, but as far as I can tell, nobody has offered a good reason why Jesus could be considered the person who did the most good, short of someone saying that he’s saved us all. So somebody please, tell me, I want to know, what do you believe that Jesus has done for you?

Forgive me anyone who finds this offensive, I’m only trying to incite intelligent conversation and debate and at the same time to gain some understanding of people’s concept of Jesus.

My opinion personally is that Jesus, quite unintentionally started a religion, one that has become very popular lately. And while I will agree that religion can give a lot of people direction, guidance and faith, I believe that if Jesus had never lived, people would have found this things somewhere else. People will ALWAYS look for someone to believe in, and let’s be honest with ourselves, things weren’t so bad before Jesus showed up.

And while I certainly know that a lot of good has been done in the name of Christianity and religion in general, I have also seen the evil it can do. It’s true, we don’t consider Christians to be particularly dangerous, in general, acts of terrorism and such are usually attributed to Muslim extremists. But on the other hand, I have seen religion lead to violence, Christianity included, don’t forget that hate groups such as the KKK and the Nazis were and are Christians. Though it’s unfair for me to judge Christianity by the worst of it’s kind, these groups do commit their actions in the name of Jesus.

I believe that if Jesus had never lived, much would be similar to how it is today, changes in the continuum of time not withstanding, as any change such as that would change the present dramatically, but I think people would go on believing in another god or savior, doing good and evil in the name of these religions, living by them, dying to defend them and doing all of the things that people do now in the name of Jesus Christ.

This turned out longer than I expected but if you wish to comment on anything I’ve said, or wish to communicate with me, just make sure that you put my name in your comment somewhere, I won’t be reading through every comment and that way I can just scan through those comments written for my eyes.

127. Sam - July 20th, 2008 at 1:42 am

This is a very tough question and can not be answered properly, so I divided my choices in topics

Science: Leonhard Euler, a swiss mathematician who was the first person to introduce calculus properly and to spread the usage of complex numbers among many other scientific uses. He also defined many fundamental physical topics like hydrostatics etc.
I could have also taken Einstein but Euler laid down the basics to a huge generation of scientists, which is the best thing one can do.

World view: Charles Darwin. He could also run undoubtly for the best scientist but his main effect on us is to sepreate ourselves from old wives tales and to rethink about nature as a vivid process which is changing constantly.

Politics, Freedom: You can’t name a single person here because there were just too much great people in this field.
Thomas Paine, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela etc.

128. Vera Lynn - July 20th, 2008 at 2:20 am

TicoTuanis (112) United States Marines Mmmm. Love Marines. Any man in uniform, but Marines esp.

129. Dan - July 20th, 2008 at 2:24 am

Hippocrates? or perhaps one of the great greek doctors. as the Hippocratic oath is still used today and greek doctors were some of the first pioneers in medicine.

130. Glowbug - July 20th, 2008 at 6:19 am

First off, I would like to say that this is a VERY good question! Of the many noble men and women our planet has hosted, picking the kindest and mst generous is exceedingly hard. But I gotta go with my gut and say Steven Biko - If it weren’t for that gentleman, the Western worl would never have even heard of apartheid (let alone start protesting it). He’s one of my heros, and has been since about 1979.

131. Teapixie - July 20th, 2008 at 6:46 am

Too hard to pick one, because, as we can all see, depending on circumstances, different people are affected by different things.
There are probably thousands of unnamed pioneers, who developed techniques and advances, in all fields, that we employ everyday, without giving them any thought.
I do have to question the inclusion of Jesus though. You don’t have to be a Christian (or any other religion) to advocate peace, love, friendship or kindness. I’m not saying that atheists don’t kill. Of course they do, but I doubt that they are responsible for more deaths than have occurred in the name of religion.

132. massoluk - July 20th, 2008 at 7:28 am

“And still do. China if anything has made the situation worse, with the added bonus of being controlled by an oppresseive, genocidal regime.”

The question is not who is the lesser of the two evils, but rather “Who Has Done The Most Good”. Of which Dalai Lama is far from being justified. His reign isn’t popular, neither did he done anything much outside of Free Tibet movement. But hey, I guess it’s all right to accept money from a known terrorist “Aum Shinrikyo” if you have Richard Gere and Sharon Stone as your mouth piece.

133. Rylan - July 20th, 2008 at 8:22 am

Everyone who doesn’t breed is tied for the honor.

134. craig - July 20th, 2008 at 8:24 am

easy this one it has got to be winston churchill him standing up to nazi germany refusing to surrender refusing to ask for peace saved a lot of people all over the world but mainly Europe imagine if there was no western front in world war 2 germany would have been able to destroy the ussr and from that they could have controlled all of Eurasia and then who would hitler turn his genocide on. so in my opinion winston churchill saved hundredes of millions of people perhaps billions

135. Sarah - July 20th, 2008 at 9:14 am

Its a tie between heidi baker and mother theresa. Both are women who have devoted their entire lives to helping the lowest of the low. There efforts are marked on the earth

136. segue - July 20th, 2008 at 9:35 am

What I’m finding of enormous interest, at least for those who take the question seriously, is the far ranging group of answers. Answers honor people from religious, scientific, political, and artistic worlds.
Each answer gives one a little nugget to chew on, even when it’s obvious that the named person is *not* deserving of the title…they might still have accomplished some great good.
Fascinating.
Thank you.

137. Rylan - July 20th, 2008 at 9:40 am

“Its a tie between heidi baker and mother theresa.”

You should watch the Penn & Teller episode on Mother Theresa, for starters.

138. JB - July 20th, 2008 at 9:59 am

Maybe from a cultural point of view:

Despite the fact of beeing a conqueror (through killing lots of people) Alexader The Great did compile cultural tresures from half the ancient world. He founded Alexandria witch was maybe the greatest cultural center ever. Unhopefully most of the richness were destroyed accidently during roman ocupation.

Marco Polo does also deserve a mention. He started the cultural dialog betwen the western medieval world and the oriental cultures. He showed both sides that other civilizations were there.

139. C - July 20th, 2008 at 10:03 am

I’m supporting the “Jesus” people but I’m also surprised that no one has yet mentioned Jean Vanier, founder of L’Arche. L’arche is a world-wide community for mentally ill adults. Jean Vanier has toured the world many times giving lectures on the importance of love and saving thousands of lives from loneliness.

140. LooLoo - July 20th, 2008 at 11:09 am

Thomas Alva Edison - not because he had 1 major invention that changed the world (the first long-lasting safe lightbulb - have you ever tried doing something detailed by candlelight or gaslight?), but THREE, including the phonograph & motion pictures. Then there are the more forgotten but still important inventions like the small microphone, the electric company (using DC over AC), the floroscope (early Xray machine), stock ticker, and was instrumental in the creation of the first electric train system (i.e. light rail) in the US.

141. Rylan - July 20th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

Whoever invented birth control.

142. David - July 20th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

- John D. Rockefeller.
- Óscar Romero
- Leonardo Da Vinci

143. B_Rad - July 20th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

I change my mind. My pick is whoever invented beer.

144. Cedestra - July 20th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

Not even Mother Theresa is free from corruption. I won’t go into it, you can look up her issues.
And when I said the Dalai Lama, I didn’t necessarily mean this one. There were also 13? before him.

145. k1w1taxi - July 20th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

Craig (136) Interesting you should nominate WC. I was listening to an author interview on the radio about three weeks ago that postulated the opposite effect from Churchill’s leadership ie it made the war longer and more costly in lives than did alternative strategies.

Sorry I can’t remember either the author or his book, but I do recall that from what I heard he was using a lot of 20/20 hindsight to come to his conclusions. And even then I still think many of them were wrong.

Cheers
Lee

146. The Bufflilax - July 20th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

Wow, so many people come to mind for this(as many have pointed out in previous posts) so ill try and get one that i have not seen mentioned as of comment 146. Upton Sinclair did a lot of good with his book “The Jungle”, showing the nauseatingly filthy conditions of meat packing plants at the time and what terrible conditions the workers were under. He caused many sanitation reforms in factories all over, and if not for him, people would have taken who knows how long to discover and fix this problem so buying meat would not have been like playing the lottery. Ironically though, that wasn’t his main point, his main point was the plight of the wage workers under a capitalist rule and all the hardships and grossness they had to endure, to quote the man “I aimed at the public’s heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach.” But because of his fame he earned by publishing “The Jungle” he went on to write many books on all sorts of social injustices in the 20th century.

147. k1w1taxi - July 20th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

David (144)
Da Vinci I understand but would you care to elucidate on the other two?

Cheers
Lee

148. jasontimmer - July 20th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

I’m gonna go with Buddha, as he has made the most difference in my life. Jesus could be there too, but Buddha’s message simply makes more sense to me.

149. charlie - July 20th, 2008 at 7:31 pm

Jesus did the most good. his followers in his name probably have done the most harm….following Jesus’s teaching’s we would all live better lives. There are too many arguments either way to defend all. I know i am a better person for trying to follow his teaching’s.

150. DDRM - July 20th, 2008 at 8:00 pm

If we don’t get side tracked by “who killed in who’s name”. The historical impact of belief in Jesus and being a “good Christian” is the foundation for most other names in this list.
The foundation of Medical treatment comes from a Christian obligation to care for the suffering. Monks and scribes gave purpose to kept the western written word taught. Gutenberg’s printing press printed the bible to spread it among the people. There would have been wars regardless who believed in what - but day to day Christian morality and ethics among the common folk inspired everything we hold dear in civilization, from human rights to health care.

151. Mike - July 20th, 2008 at 8:29 pm

Now, I mite sound a little biased when I say this, but probably the guy who invented bacon… Yeah…

152. modelpenguin - July 20th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

Wafa Sultan - google her speech.

Most people who save the world - you’ll never even know their name.

153. MPW - July 21st, 2008 at 2:28 am

its funny, Jamie posts a friendly “your view” and it gets less attention. That says a lot.

154. Tempyra - July 21st, 2008 at 2:34 am

Interesting isn’t it?

155. Hobolad - July 21st, 2008 at 6:06 am

Jesus… Maybe. He seemed cool- I mean, condemning the rich to hell, championing the poor, a regular little Marx.

Plus, people always like the guy but condemn the results of the religion- ignoring all of the schools, hospitals, charities etc. All the stuff funded by the church, back before it was disengaged and the government picked up where it left off.

So yeah… Jesus. But Jesus the bloke, Jesus the pedagogue- not Jesus the son of God.

156. Chickensoup - July 21st, 2008 at 8:30 am

LooLoo, Thomas Edison did not invent the lightbulb. His assisstant did. Thomas Edison did, however, patent the first lightbulb. This act I believe basically precludes him from the arena of discussion in this topic, but hey, what do I know.

Massoluk, I didn’t suggest the Dalai Lama, but discussing his shortcomings as a leader and a person in the face of China’s disgusting seizure of his country is not big and not clever. Furthermore, Tibet as an overwhelmingly Buddhist country makes his absolute monarchy no more of a crime than the Pope’s rule of the Vatican. I don’t recall any ‘Free Tibet’ protests while he was still in control.

DDRM: “The foundation of Medical treatment comes from a Christian obligation to care for the suffering.”
While disease, violence and war are spread by demonic Atheists. Yeah yeah. Ever heard of Hippocrates, AKA ‘the father of modern medicine’?
“There would have been wars regardless who believed in what” So one more cause for war is OK because there are already plenty? If people are going to fight and die for something I would personally rather it was something rather more important than ‘who has the best God’. Remove the cause, remove the problem.

“but day to day Christian morality and ethics among the common folk inspired everything we hold dear in civilization, from human rights to health care.”
I’m sorry if my entire comment has come across as rude, but I simply cannot comprehend these totally spurious assertions, particularly the one above - I mean, in all serious, do you actually believe that?

157. segue - July 21st, 2008 at 9:18 am

Saith Jamie in the intro:
“To help us reverse some of the negative comments in recent “your view” topics, we are going to do a positive your view - we are going to look at which one man or woman has contributed the most to the betterment of society throughout all history. You can pick anyone from anytime or any place.”
I think we can all guess the genesis of this comment. Things got out of hand. Let’s try, for Jamie’s sake, for our sake, to respond to this, and all lists, as the intelligent people we are.

158. C - July 21st, 2008 at 10:08 am

Santa Clause!

… but in earnest I’m still lobbying for Jean Vanier, founder of L’Arche.

159. Randall - July 21st, 2008 at 10:26 am

I still lend my vote to Borlaug in this thing (with Jacques Cousteau as honorable mention) but I’m prompted to say something about this argument that persists here, about Jesus.

It’s perhaps easier, one might argue, to confuse Jesus with the religion of his followers than it is to confuse the Buddha with the religion or philosophy that grew up in his wake… Buddhism is not a bureaucratic, hierarchic religion, largely, and so lacking the sense of an outward “central authority” (other than the dalai lama and such) it perhaps seems easier to mentally divorce Buddhism from its “founder.” Nevertheless, it’s a mistake, it seems to me, to discount Jesus from this list because of the injustices committed in his name.

Jesus (and the Buddha) introduced an entirely new paradigm into the human consciousness, which in point of fact had simply not existed previously. Prior to Jesus there was an overwhelming sense of fatalism in the notion of human existence, as well as an utter lack of any sense of shared comity between individuals, and a lack of recognition of the humanity of other human beings. It isn’t that people weren’t aware that their fellows were also humans like themselves, and it isn’t that communities/cities/tribes etc. didn’t provide some sense of a communal spirit–but this is not precisely the same as the recognition that all men are brothers, and that an “enemy” is really the same as the self (hence the act of “turning the other cheek”). Jesus even went *beyond* the Buddha in this, in a sense–at least looking at it a certain way.

In any event, it’s to Jesus that the West, at least, owes its inherited sense (even if on MANY occasions we’ve only paid lip service to it) that the other individual over there is really the same as yourself, and you should therefore help him and sympathize with him—and that this *crosses over* all boundaries of race, creed, and nationality. Jesus also taught other things, some of which people have been less inclined to pick up on (read carefully, his message is not altogether very different from the Buddha’s, flaming speculation that Jesus went away to India for a time to study Buddhism, adapting it to a Judaic context) but at any rate, it’s to him that we owe an awakened sense not only of the Self, but of the other Selves all around us… and that’s no small thing. We like to bitch about how horrible our world has been, particularly over the last hundred years, and how we’ve done awful things to each other–sometimes in the name of Jesus. But we really need to be grown up about this and face that A) what’s been done in his name and what HE would have done are usually two VERY different things and B) the world, without his teaching, would have certainly been a great deal worse. In fact, we might not be here today, if not for the inner restraints on our own hatreds and passions which Jesus caused us to place upon ourselves.

Whatever you think of his divinity, the dude was one-of-a-kind and he did one of the greatest things ever for our civilization.

160. Randall - July 21st, 2008 at 10:45 am

Chickensoup:

As you can see from my previous comment, I feel I have to take issue with your denunciation of what DDRM said in his/her earlier comment.

You’re right, of course, about Hippocrates, but as a specialist in ancient Greece, I feel I need to assure you that there’s a big difference between the PHILOSOPHY of health care in our post-Jesus world vs. that in the day of the ancient Greeks (and Egyptians, who were also accomplished, if incurious, physicians). Health care, of course, is largely a matter of practicality–it’s expedient to keep useful members of society healthy so they can go on being useful. And in ancient Greece this sometimes did cut across all lines to include slaves and other hoi polloi as well as the aristocratic. But it was largely a practical matter. The Greeks were highly inquisitive lovers of science who saw new ways of applying their brains to the pursuit of knowledge. Medicine was part of this–but the extent to which it was practiced out of an innate feeling of “one-ness” with one’s neighbor/fellow is pretty small. The Greeks did not possess this sense any more than any other ancient society–which is part of the reason that it was possible for them to ignore slavery, in large measure, as a social injustice. (Of course, yes, we did the same thing, but this simply proves that we are far from perfect, and do not always follow our better natures–not that we are the same as the ancients). In essence the Greeks did love life, and were followers of the “life impulse” more readily than the “death impulse,” if you will, unlike their Asian or Egyptian fellows (or later, the Romans). But this is not the same as our modern sense of what is “right” and true in regards to caring for one’s neighbor, etc.

You went on to quote DDRM and then reply:

““but day to day Christian morality and ethics among the common folk inspired everything we hold dear in civilization, from human rights to health care.”
I’m sorry if my entire comment has come across as rude, but I simply cannot comprehend these totally spurious assertions, particularly the one above - I mean, in all serious, do you actually believe that?”

Yes, frankly–*I* believe that–because I know it historically to be so. What is your reason for doubting this or asserting otherwise?

Note what I said in my previous comment about the paradigm shift that Jesus brought about (it took a while) in the modern mind. Prior to Jesus there simply was no sense of “social good” based on compassion and a shared sense of co-existence. The “social good” of the ancients before Jesus was rather based on expediency and practicality in large measure (I’m generalizing of course, but nevertheless this is largely so). It’s only after Jesus that we get the sense of doing good for the sake of doing good–or to put it more specifically, for doing what is “right” based on a shared sense of existence–that everyone around us is our brother and sister and that we are all, underneath, the same. That’s a day-to-day philosophy that had only the barest existence prior to Jesus (in the West at least) though some philosophers in Greece had touched upon it slightly.

161. massoluk - July 21st, 2008 at 11:33 am

Chicken Soup,

Again, the question is not who is the lesser of the two evils, but Who Has Done The Most Good. The current Dalai Lama didn’t do anything worthwhile when he was in Tibet or when he is an exile.

162. massoluk - July 21st, 2008 at 11:36 am

Frankly, when US gov. agency openly said the Tibet Coup against China failed in the past due to lack of support from the local, that should say something.

163. Megals - July 21st, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Leo Baekeland, he invented plastic in 1898 (which gave rise to newer synthetic plastics now in play). I honestly think that without the gift of plastic so many of today’s conventions would be lost. Even when you think medically, much of what we use in a hospital again, is made of plastic (from syringes, nebulizers, even the beds the patients lay on, etc.). I hope I do not see a “Green” backlash b/c I know it’s not the best at being biodegradeable but it got us through many advances through the past century+. Thanks a bunch to Leo!

164. segue - July 21st, 2008 at 4:14 pm

****
161. Randall
****
Randall, has it been my imagination, or have you been unusually quiet of late? I’ve missed you.
Spanner is gone, and I thought maybe you had gone also.
Are you alright?

165. iamaneviltaco - July 21st, 2008 at 5:08 pm

ben franklin. he invented EVERYTHING.

166. k1w1taxi - July 21st, 2008 at 5:49 pm

Randall, I must commend you on your posting 161.

As a person who has read most of the posts nominating/supporting Jesus and thought “Fuck Off” as much for the tone as the validity of Jesus as a nominee, I found your post to be one of the best written presentations supporting him.

Nice to see a mature sensible posting on the subject after some recent efforts in the LV.

Cheers
Lee

167. Randall - July 22nd, 2008 at 6:18 am

segue:

I hope Spanner hasn’t *really* left. But thanks for missing me. I’ve been caught up in a health issue. Hopefully it’s nothing. Thanks very much for asking though.

168. Randall - July 22nd, 2008 at 6:21 am

k1w1taxi:

Thank you.

169. Ghidoran - July 22nd, 2008 at 6:27 am

Muhammad(pbuh)

170. craig - July 22nd, 2008 at 7:40 am

147. k1w1taxi

my main point about winston churchill was he did not surrender when many people in the government wanted this the only other option for pm (lord halifax)in my opinion whould have bowed down to the pressure from his own government and surrendered

171. umgrego2 - July 22nd, 2008 at 8:29 am

I’ll start by congratulating Mom424 on the best post so far. I will reiterate their comment that this topic is WAY too broad.

I’d also like to add a name to the candidates: John Locke. English philosopher who was instrumental in the liberalism movement out of the Age of Enlightenment.

However, I don’t think that any one person can be credited with an idea. Locke himself was influenced by Descartes, who was in turn influenced by other teachings.

Which leads me to the nominations by others of Jesus. Randall makes a decent argument but writes as though Jesus came up with the principles that he taught. From what I understand, Jesus was a jew and was simply teaching the ethics of judaism. Furthermore, there are no writings by Jesus, only those of the gospels, so it’s really these authors who should be applauded for spreading the benovolent ideas that Jesus is credited with.

What I’m getting at, is that if ideology is the category, then naming a particular individual is next to impossible, as thought is constantly evolving.

The same goes for Darwin. He’s credited with the theory of evolution but he was simply building on the work of others (see Lamarck) and managed to provide scientific support for the idea.

As a last comment, I feel the need to call DDRM and Randall on their assumption that “Christian morality and ethics among the common folk inspired everything we hold dear in civilization, from human rights to health care”. That is a truly egotistical, ignorant and inflammatory statement. How can you try to assert that these concepts weren’t also championed by buddhists, jews and ateheists? Plus, what does “christian morality” have to do with the conversation at hand?

172. Randall - July 22nd, 2008 at 9:10 am

umgrego2:

You’re laboring under some misconceptions, so allow me to clear them up for you:

“Randall makes a decent argument but writes as though Jesus came up with the principles that he taught. From what I understand, Jesus was a jew and was simply teaching the ethics of judaism.”

Incorrect, umgrego2. Yes, Jesus was a Jew, but no, he was most certainly NOT “simply teaching the ethics of Judaism.” I would suggest you re-read my earlier posts–I made it *quite* clear that Jesus introduced an entirely new paradigm into the consciousness of western civilization. Judaism prior to Jesus contained little of the ethos that Jesus taught–Jewish thought at this time still in large measure derived from the Torah, or the Law. This bears little relation to the teachings of Jesus, who by his own admission went beyond the Law and set a “new” law into being. Some of Jesus’ teachings spin off from Jewish Law, of course… but the ethos he introduced was entirely new and had no actual precedent in western consciousness.

“…Furthermore, there are no writings by Jesus, only those of the gospels, so it’s really these authors who should be applauded for spreading the benovolent ideas that Jesus is credited with.”

While true that Jesus left no writings, this is a somewhat spurious argument. History and philosophy grant to Socrates, the great ancient Greek philosopher, credit for his ideas, despite the fact that he wrote nothing in his lifetime and everything we know about him comes from his student, Plato. Moreover, the authors of the gospels would have had no ideas to spread if Jesus had not first spoken these ideas in the first place. Lastly, we do have the Gospel of Thomas, which, while apocryphal, has been the one non-biblical gospel generally accepted by scholars as being representative of the actual words of Jesus–in fact, in many cases it’s judged that Thomas *more closely* gets the words of Jesus right than the biblical gospels do. So while Jesus also did not write this, we do have what we believe are his actual words—and it’s what Jesus said that mattered–not who reported it or wrote it down. Your argument would say that we should give more credit to the reporter who publishes the words of the president’s latest speech FOR that speech, than we should give to the president himself–simply because he spoke it rather than wrote it down. Silly.

You also go on to say:

“As a last comment, I feel the need to call DDRM and Randall on their assumption that “Christian morality and ethics among the common folk inspired everything we hold dear in civilization, from human rights to health care”. That is a truly egotistical, ignorant and inflammatory statement.”

To begin with, I did not make that statement, DDRM did. However, yes, I support it.

I would ask you to explain how it is that this statement is “egotistical” and “ignorant.” I take it by inflammatory you refer to how it seems to discredit or steal credit, at least, from other religions. Hence your next statement:

“How can you try to assert that these concepts weren’t also championed by buddhists, jews and ateheists?”

A) Saying Jesus, as a figure, was responsible for the introduction and codification of certain principles, ethics and ideas is NOT the same as saying it was NOT also championed by others. I stated *clearly* in my comments that the teachings if Jesus closely mirrored the teachings of the Buddha—so your accusation is off the mark and reactionary. However, I also stated that Jesus in some ways went *beyond* the Buddha in his teachings. If you know anything about the Dhammaparda (the teachings of the Buddha)–which you apparently don’t–then you see clearly that while Jesus and the Buddha run parallel in many ways, they diverge on certain points, and Jesus actually takes things further–and is more clear, in a moral sense. This is by no means an indictment in any way of the Buddha–his mission, as it were, was simply of a different nature.

B) In any case, I saw this statement as relating mainly to WESTERN civilization, which is what I spoke of in my statements. I was not, therefore, speaking about Eastern civilizations and their ideals and systems of thought and ethics.

C) As I already pointed out, Judaism did NOT come up with the ideas that Jesus brought into our western consciousness. He built on some Judaic principles, yes, but Judaism itself did not formulate what Jesus taught.

D) There is no evidence whatsoever that atheists ever created any unique ethical system. This is not to say atheists can’t have ethics–of course they can. But no ethical system ANYONE comes up with nowadays is unique, after thousands of years of human history. But the simple fact is that Jesus’ system WAS unique–at least to the West, and while it bore much relation and similarity to Buddhist teachings, Jesus also deviated from that and what he taught was, in nearly every other sense, new and singular.

“Plus, what does “christian morality” have to do with the conversation at hand?”

That’s rather obvious, umgrego2. DDRM introduced the idea of Christian morality as the reason WHY Jesus should be considered as “the one who has done the most good.” And again, it comes back to the statement that the morality and ethos he laid down was entirely new to the Western mind and created the paradigm that we still work under to this day.

173. Chickensoup - July 22nd, 2008 at 11:14 am

Randall, to imply that the Greeks practiced medicine purely to preserve the lives of useful people is to ignore the eentire basis of Greek society. The image you create is of a cold, heartless, machinistic society with little interest in the health and happiness of the people. This was simply not the case - empathy and thoughtfulness are evident in much of the documentation we have from this time, from the writings of Plato to ‘Oedipus Rex’. The philosophy of Christian health care also owes something of a debt to the influence and teachings of the Muslim Middle East, particularly in the Middle Ages. Social conciousness is not an exclusively Christian virtue, and can, in fact, be trampled over in puruit of Christian goals - just look at Mother Theresa, lauded as a near-saint despite her revolting “souls before bodies” policy. And if this really is such a pervasive part of the Christian psyche, why doesn’t America, one of the most fervently Christian nations in the world, employ its values in either its domestic or foriegn spheres? Why is there no state healthcare in America, while the largely atheist nations of Britain, Canada, China, Cuba, Germany etc. all do? Why did it take Britain thousands of years of Christianity alongside slavery and bloodshed in the name of the Empire before adopting the Beveridge report as its guide? And finally, why are these values prevelant in non-Christian countries, even those going back thousands of years BC, such as Japan?

“Yes, frankly–*I* believe that–because I know it historically to be so. What is your reason for doubting this or asserting otherwise?”
Because to claim that these values amongst common people are ‘Christian’ rather than ‘human’ is quite frightening to me. Empathy is not a Christian value, and a simple knowledge of non-Christian people and societies proves this. I have to say I find the fact that I have to attempt to impress this fact upon you rather confusing - I feel that the onus is on you, rather than I, to back up your claim, being as it was proposed by DDRM, rather than the opposite by me. If you feel otherwise, let me know and I will respond in kind.

“It’s only after Jesus that we get the sense of doing good for the sake of doing good–or to put it more specifically, for doing what is “right” based on a shared sense of existence–that everyone around us is our brother and sister and that we are all, underneath, the same.”
I would highlight the fact that Buddhist teachings have been around since 2500 BC - do you think that this was an isolated conciousness?
“That’s a day-to-day philosophy that had only the barest existence prior to Jesus (in the West at least”
And which continued to have only the barest existence until the Renaissance and the social revolutions in the 18th - 20th centuries. I see no correlation between Christianity and the rise in social conscience - as a matter of fact, I see more of a link between this and the rise of atheism-informed scientific practices. Draw your own conclusions.

174. longball - July 22nd, 2008 at 12:46 pm

Adolf Hitler.

Before anyone shits there pants, i just want to say that Hilter has brought more good to the world than any one person will ever. He showed us our weakness and how corrupt the human being can get. The general worldwide illegalness of genocide, fascism, rascism, and totalitarianism is a direct result of his conquests.

175. Randall - July 22nd, 2008 at 1:36 pm

Chickensoup:

Listen, I realize I make a habit sometimes of throwing my weight around here on this site, but I still have to go ahead and tell you flat out not to presume to lecture me about ancient Greek society as though I don’t know what I’m talking about when I offer up my opinion about it. Not only was I trained in this topic, (ancient history) but the Greeks have been a passionate interest of mine ever since I was a little kid–I’ve probably read more books on every aspect of their history and society than you’ve even heard of. I’m part Greek myself for god’s sake.

First of all, I think your problem is that you persist in viewing the Greeks through the prism of your modernity. Stop it. They weren’t moderns and you aren’t an ancient Greek. So realize it would take time and nuance of understanding to fully grasp them and their attitudes.

“The image you create is of a cold, heartless, machinistic society with little interest in the health and happiness of the people.”

In no way, shape, or form is that what I painted or implied. You *took* it as such, however–and that’s your error. And in so doing you also ignored what I said about the Greeks’ love of life and their adherence to the “life impulse” over the death impulse.

No, the Greeks were not cold and heartless and certainly not a machinistic society. But neither were they like you and me in regards to our generally-held attitudes towards the social good and compassion between individuals who are strangers and so on. Yes, of course they had some sense of these things–human nature in itself is to some extent about social compassion–we’re social animals. But do not make the mistake of thinking that the Greeks were just like us when it came to viewing one’s neighbor as one views oneself. *Some* Greek philosophers held views akin to this–but in general the Greeks–nor any other ancient people–didn’t think as we do in this regard.

“…empathy and thoughtfulness are evident in much of the documentation we have from this time…”

You’re looking for an argument, chickensoup. I would advise you to step back and get a grip. No one loves the ancient Greeks more than me. They’ve been the subject of my passionate study, as I said, ever since I was a kid. I never said that empathy and thoughtfulness were unknown to them or absent from their society. You’re missing the point. These qualities were part of the Greeks, yes—in particular in their view of a human-centered universe, unlike their fellows (the Asiatics, the Egyptians, etc.) who viewed Man as a piece of mud, beholden to gods and god-kings—in particular the Greeks had a nicely developed sense of the pathos and glory and wonder of being human. They appreciated this greatly.

But there’s a big difference between the Greek notion of placing the center of the universe on Man, as it were (this isn’t really an accurate way of putting it, but it’ll do for the discussion) and actually having an embedded sense of the brotherhood of all human beings–and a sense that that stranger over there is the same as you and is your brother (or sister). The Greeks certainly appreciated that philosophy and grasped it, and there’s evidence of it, as you say, in their writings. It’s in fact no wonder that they so readily opened their arms to Christianity when it came–the Greeks “got it,” whereas it took the Romans (and others) a lot longer to swallow. But again there’s a difference between the words of a poet or a philosopher and what a society actually practices. The Greeks viewed all non-Greeks as barbarians as we well know, and even their respected neighbors, like the Egyptians, they viewed as less vital and worthy because they were not Greek. There’s nothing horrible in this, it was common for their day. It’s what allowed Greece, like all other ancient societies, to view slavery with nary a whiff of concern (some Greek philosophers, to their credit, DID speak against it, though). Even amongst themselves, it would be unusual for Greeks to view “the Other” as a mirror of oneself–in other words, to the Greeks also the “good Samaritan” would be an unusual fellow worthy of particular praise–but an exception, not the rule. They UNDERSTOOD compassion, of course, then…. but they had not had it codified for them nor had any ethos ever grown up within them that said, “this is how one must live.” WE expect the good Samaritan to be the rule. The ancients–including the Greeks–did not.

Of course, yes–you’re forcing me to go into all sorts of complicated discussions of this–the Greeks had traditional “rules” about hospitality to the needy stranger or guest–and still do today—there are few more hospitable people on earth. BUT AGAIN–this is not precisely the same as our attitudes today, nor does it any way recommend to “turn the other cheek,” nor does it say to “love one