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10 Banned Controversial Album Covers

Maggot . . . Comments

[WARNING: This list contains disturbing, graphic, and/or sexual imagery. NSFW!] What is “art”? Over the years there have been many record albums or CDs released with what was deemed to be controversial or offensive cover artwork. Censorship and attempts to define the limits of free speech is a subject worthy of debating, and of course “offensive” imagery is in the eye of the beholder. As such, some of these might seem rather tame by today’s standards, but nonetheless they originally elicited enough controversy, public outcry, or heavy-handed pressure from major retailers, to cause censoring actions. It should be noted that none of these were banned by legal order; these decisions were made purely for commercial reasons.

Criteria for this list is that the cover in question must have been actually printed up and released, and due to an outcry, was either altered or outright banned for later releases. I’m omitting sleeves that were simply covered up with opaque wrapping so as to hide the “offending” artwork, but otherwise are unchanged. John & Yoko’s Two Virgins is an example of this approach, and so does not make my list. Some banned artwork has been resurrected for later re-issues, but as a record collector, it is the scarcity and hence collectable aspect of the original releases that intrigues me. Here are ten of some of the most infamous examples of banned album covers (some of which are highly prized today by collectors). There are however many, many others, so please mention your favorites in the comments.


The Origin of the Feces
Type O Negative (1992)

The Origin Of The Feces 1 The Origin Of The Feces 2

What better way to kick off this list than with goth-metal band Type O Negative’s album, the title of which plays on Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species”. Upon first release, the album featured quite a cheeky cover photo. The derriere portrayed in this image is alleged to belong to the band’s lead vocalist Peter Steele. Apparently their label Roadrunner Records had second thoughts soon after release (what a surprise), and later issues of the album were given the more tame “green skeleton” cover, rendering the original an immediate collectable.


Far Beyond Driven
Pantera (1994)

Pantera - Far Beyond Driven 1 Pantera - Far Beyond Driven 2

As long as we’re delving into the anal theme here (no pun intended), take a look at the cover of Pantera’s “Far Beyond Driven”. This album’s original cover artistically depicts a large drill-bit, um… far beyond driven into a place where the sun don’t shine. I can hear the record company execs now: “Well gee, apparently that crossed some sort of line, so let’s just replace that picture with an image of the drill-bit impaling a skull instead, shall we? Problem solved.”


The Black Crowes (1994)

Black Crowes - Amorica 1 Black Crowes - Amorica 2

I guess the horror of exposing a few strands of pubic hair was enough to cause an uproar about The Black Crowes’ original cover photo that was used on their album “Amorica”. Urban legend at the time had it that this was actually a photo of a male model with some strategic “tucking” involved, but in reality the image was first used on the cover of a 1976 issue of Hustler magazine, which makes that seem unlikely to be true. Right? Please say it aint so. The cover photo was later replaced in some markets (namely, the U.S.; ironic given the album title and Stars-n-Stripes theme) by a blacked-out version that just showed the flag triangle (sans hair) against a black background, as if to say: “move along people, nothing to see here”.


Appetite for Destruction
Guns n Roses (1987)

Guns And Roses - Appetite For Destruction 1 Guns And Roses - Appetite For Destruction 2

“Appetite for Destruction” is the title of a painting by popular “lowbrow” artist Robert Williams, and was the basis for the cover of G&R’s debut album of the same name. Unfortunately the geniuses in Geffen Records marketing department didn’t consider that a graphic depiction of rape might cause some problems with conservative retailers in the U.S., who refused to stock the album until a change was made to the more widely recognized “cross & skulls” cover. The Williams artwork was retained, though relegated to an inner sleeve insert. Prices for sealed first pressings of this record with the original artwork on the cover can run you upwards of $100 or more.


Holy Wood In the Shadow…
Marilyn Manson (2000)

Marilyn Manson - Holy Wood In The Shadow Of The Valley Of Death 1 Marilyn Manson - Holy Wood In The Shadow Of The Valley Of Death 2

Full album title: Holy Wood In the Shadow of the Valley of Death

This album was Manson’s first release following the April 1999 Columbine High School massacre, for which he had been unfairly crucified in the press as being an inspiration to the killers (this was later determined to be totally unsubstantiated). Consequently, this album explores such themes as parental roles and America’s hypocrisy of conservative values and culture juxtaposed with its mainstream acceptance of violence and the fame attained by people whose publicly displayed deaths have been romanticized and martyred. Various major retail chains in the U.S. refused to stock the record at all, and some only would with an alternative cover. Manson’s response: “The irony is that my point of the photo on the album was to show people that the crucifixion of Christ is, indeed, a violent image. In fact, the picture itself is composed of a statue of Jesus taken from a place of worship. My jaw is missing as a symbol of this very kind of censorship. This doesn’t piss me off as much as it pleases me, because those offended by my album cover have successfully proven my point.”


Love it to Death
Alice Cooper (1971)

Alice Cooper - Love It To Death 1 Alice Cooper - Love It To Death 2

You gotta love Alice. Original versions of this album cover are affectionately known as the “thumb cover” among fans and collectors, because that wacky Vincent Fernier (aka Alice Cooper) surreptitiously poked his thumb through an opening in the front of his cape during the photo shoot in such a way that it appears to be his penis on display. Released under the Straight label (owned by Frank Zappa), this clever sight gag was allowed to slide. But when Warner Brothers acquired the label, the cover on later re-issues of the album had a version of the photo that was altered so that the offending digit was airbrushed out. And so, the further moral corruption of humanity was thusly prevented.


Blind Faith
Blind Faith (1969)

Blind Faith 2

Controversial Cover: Click here to view the controversial cover [NSFW]

This legendary supergroup’s only album, the self-titled “Blind Faith”, featured a topless 11 year-old girl provocatively holding an aircraft type of object that some interpreted as a phallic symbol. Nice, eh? Apparently not. Well-known San Francisco rock and roll photographer Bob Seidemann, who was a personal friend of band member Eric Clapton, produced this artwork, which according to him was supposed to depict human creative achievement in technology (represented by the aircraft), borne though innocence (represented by the young child). Whatever. In the U.S. the record was issued with an alternate cover. But I’m telling you – if this blatant use of what pretty much amounts to child pornography to sell records wasn’t appalling enough, you aint seen nuthin yet:


Virgin Killer
The Scorpions (1976)

Scorpions - Virgin Killer 2

Controversial Cover: Click here to view the controversial cover [NSFW]

How anyone in their right mind thought this cover photo was a good idea is beyond me. The Scorps have several controversial covers in their discography, but this one of an erotically posed 10-year-old girl takes the cake (the shattered glass pattern obscuring her genitals is part of the image). The inspiration came solely from label RCA Records’ marketing personnel; the band members had nothing to do with it, but early on they did stand behind it and tried to defend its use as being an artistically symbolic representation of the title track’s lyrical theme: that time is the killer of virgin innocence. Not surprisingly, it was soon replaced by a more acceptable alternative cover depicting the band (in a rather ridiculous pose). More recently, some band members, in particular former lead guitarist Uli Roth, have expressed regret over the cover and their original support of it.

In May 2008, U.S. conservative media group WorldNetDaily reported Wikipedia’s hosting of this image to the FBI, which led to an investigation but no resultant actions. However on Dec 5, 2008 the URL for Wiki’s image page of this photo was added to the UK-based Internet Watch Foundation’s blacklist, which resulted in the content being blocked by most of the UK’s major internet service providers. This unfortunately caused some undesirable problems, as subscribers temporarily could not edit or contribute to any Wiki pages. The blacklisting was rescinded four days later by reasoning, in part, that the photo was already widely available in the public domain. Wiki has a detailed article on this topic here.


Diamond Dogs
David Bowie (1974)

David Bowie - Diamond Dogs 1 David Bowie - Diamond Dogs 2

The sleeve of this album features a stylish painting by Belgian artist Guy Peelleart. This striking piece is a somewhat freakish representation of Bowie as a half-man half-dog creature. An anatomically correct creature by the way, to which RCA Records immediately took exception by withdrawing the records and ordering the artwork to be reproduced with the canine genitalia airbrushed out (amusing in comparison to the previous entry, which would be deemed acceptable by RCA just two years later). Inexplicably, a few unaltered versions survived and are quite valuable today, reportedly approaching close to $10,000. in value. But buyer beware: 1990 Rykodisc re-issues with the restored original image are somewhat easy to come by and though they can be worth a couple hundred dollars in their own right, they aren’t the real deal.


Yesterday and Today
The Beatles (1966)

Beatles - Yesterday And Today 1 Beatles - Yesterday And Today 2

The Beatles’ infamous “Butcher Baby” cover is perhaps the most well known banned cover of all time, and is likely the most valuable as well. It has been featured on Listverse once before, on this list. The original version of this album wasn’t actually released for sale to the general public, but advance copies and promo material were sent to radio stations and a few retailers however, and the immediately ensuing outcry caused Capitol Record to quickly withdraw all inventory that was ready for distribution (about 750,000 copies). Rather than destroy all the sleeves, Capitol instead chose to slap a much more conservative photo of the lads posed around a steamer trunk over the original art and then re-issue the records to retailers. It didn’t take long for fans to figure out how to peel the trunk photo off to reveal the Butcher photo underneath, which eventually lead to a cottage industry of professional peelers. A collectors’ jargon evolved to distinguish “First State” (original uncovered version), “Second State” (paste-over version) and “Third State” (peeled) copies.

Over the years, so many paste-overs have been peeled (or damaged/lost) that these days Second State Butchers are becoming scarcer and are increasing in value. If in good condition, they can easily fetch a couple thousand dollars, and thus are more desirable than even professionally peeled Third State copies. Not surprisingly, First State originals are the most valuable; factory sealed copies in particular are extremely rare and worth in the tens of thousands of dollars or more depending on condition. By the mid 80’s, there were only two stereo and less than ten mono sealed First State Butcher copies known to exist. In 1987, a case of 24 sealed original Butchers (5 stereo and 19 mono) turned up at a Beatles convention in the hands of Peter Livingston, who’s father Alan was president of Capitol Records at the time of the recall. These are known as the “Livingston copies”, and are the most valuable of all, given their pedigree.

To determine if your record is a paste-over, look for a faint v-shaped bleed-through of Ringo’s black shirt in the white background area of the trunk photo midway down the right edge. If you are lucky enough to discover a previously unbeknownst one in your collection, my advice to you is: don’t even think about trying to peel it! In all my years of record collecting, my Second State Butcher in VG+ condition is the most prized item.


Country Life
Roxy Music (1974)

Roxy Music - Country Life 1 Roxy Music - Country Life 2

This is listed as a bonus entry because, quite frankly, I wanted it on the list but didn‘t want to take any of the others off. This album cover is the sole reason I became a Roxy Music fan. Story has it that Bryan Ferry met these two models, Constanze Karoli and Eveline Grunwald, in Portugal, and asked them to pose for the cover shoot. Naturally, the photo was a bit much for some markets (good ol’ conservative USA, among them), and was re-issued in those areas with a plain foliage photo. But as I said, this album cover made quite an impression on me when it was released and I was able to snag an import copy. All right, before any of you LV ladies castigate me for shamelessly objectifying women, I ask that you cut me some slack because after all, I was only 14 at the time. Today of course, I am older and wiser, and so I can offer a much more mature commentary on the artistry of this photo: Did you see the racks on those babes?!

  • claire

    The ones with the nude kids are disgusting.

    • Donny

      You’re a retard.

      • Googly

        Only morons use the word “Retard”

  • mandiemurder

    Yes! I love this stuff! Go nudity!!!


  • cheese

    Great list!!

  • stefan

    oh the world has no sense of humor !
    awesome list !

  • romerozombie

    God, I knew that Beatles cover would be number one. They’re everywhere and I’m tired of it. Good list other than that.

  • Dionysiaa

    Awesome list…and I could see why this would make for an interesting collection….

  • gersgraeme

    To start with i thought this would be boring,,,, how wrong was I???? Brilliant list mate

  • Dionysiaa

    I also wonder if album covers are becoming obsolete in the mp3 age…

  • necro_penguin

    i remember when 8 & 9 came out and the outrage that followed. i thought it was hilarious.

    that blind faith cover was a girl? i guess i really do need glasses.

  • Randall

    Good list, Mag. I remember the original Blind Faith album cover… funny how we didn't think much of it then, but then you look back on it, and it's just plain creepy.

    Really, most of these covers reflect a very low-brow, skanky, arrested adolescent idea of "humor" and "wit" which is indicative of the kind of talentless schlocks some of these acts are/were. I mean, come on… Type O Negative? Pantera? Black Crowes? Scorpions? Guns N Roses? DREK, one and all. AND YES ASSHOLES, THAT GOES FOR YOUR BELOVED GUNS N ROSES TOO. Goddamn dumbass crap-taste people I have to share this earth with….

    Note that it's these acts, at any rate, that had most of the covers that were just in flat-out poor taste. Never mind about "morality" (gag me) —it's just their shockingly low-brow taste that gets you. "Origin of the Feces" is a freakin' joke an eleven year old would think is unfunny.

    On the opposite spectrum, you've got the Beatles, who were protesting the way their albums were "butchered" in the US (i.e., chopped down from the British versions so's to milk two albums for US consumption from one British). Ugly cover, but kind of appropriate given the point of it all. And you've got Bowie, from one of his best albums–but yeah, I always found the cover freaky as hell. But that's Bowie in the 70s. What could we expect? And Roxy Music—(of course I had all three of these records) hot chicks, what's wrong with that? But I always felt the one on the right looked a bit like a man–baby!–in the face. Maybe just me.

    • james payne

      You are an idiot panteras far beyond driven is an amzing cd and they are extremly talented know your stuff before you talk shit and if you think these are bad look at leftover cracks fuck world trade cd and choking victims shoot the kids at school and no gods no mangers also two great bands you’re an uneducated retard who should be sterilized so you can not teach your children your backward ass views yours truly james haha

  • Moloch1123

    Wow, it’s a complete surprise to me that any US based bands would even try some of these. It’s not like I would complain, I even saw the original Holy Wood covers in stores, though I had no cash to buy it at the time. I can’t say that any of them anger me, just surprise me.



  • ALexis

    The David Bowie painting is good.. i mean not the altered version.. it would’ve been nice if they’ve just released the original picture.. its a great art

  • Mark

    Great list, it was a very enjoyable read. I bought a “Best of the 1970’s” extremely nostalgic rock magazine in the newsagents a few years ago. Inside I was introduced to the original “Country Music” album cover… Quite surprising seeing as this was an Australian magazine.

    My father was already a long time Roxy Music listener (not a die-hard fan, but he was always into Glam, God knows why :P ) but this was my first taste of them… I’ve been a fan ever since :D

  • nuriko


  • zacky27

    i could have lived without ever seeing that type o negative album cover

  • Tenebrae

    Well, a good example of controversial album covers was Jane’s Addiction’s 1990 release Ritual de lo Habitual

    Many markets refused to carry the album with the original cover art:

    So an alternate cover, which displayed the 1st Amendment, was created:

  • Tenebrae

    Bleh my previous comment is awaiting moderation. I just posted about Jane’s Addiction’s Ritual de lo Habitual.. check em out yourself.

  • saber25

    Goddamn those tits on those babes on bonus one are huge!

    Damn good list btw.

  • saber25

    And I knew there was also a album cover(don’t remember what rock band was that) which they posed and their backgrounds are people hanging and heads on spears. WTF!!!

    There was also a album which it’s cover is the upper internal organs of a humans.


  • L
  • Karen

    Number 10 made me vomit a little…

  • Pyderz

    Some of that pedo shit is fucked up

  • Taash

    number 3 is actually NASTY!!!!

  • Shype

    I agree! Nude kids: art? my arse!

  • deepthinker

    Oh, Maggot.. I wouldn’t say that you objectify women. Being a woman myself, I am actually jealous of “the racks on those babes”. I mean, it was a smart plan to make that an album cover. Even I would have passed up the foliage cover, but seeing the original cover out of the corner of ones’ eye will always make for a double-take. At first, I didn’t even notice that they had hideous faces. Cool list, and some were shocking.

  • totalstranger

    Jimi Hendrix’ Electric Ladyland had nude european cover I believe.

  • totalstranger

    also Type O Negatives Slow, Deep, and Hard shows penetration, its just blurred.

    Oh and Poison’s Open Up and Say Ahhhh! was banned too!

  • totalstranger

    Brujeria-Matando Gueros (great cover!)

  • gr8flddfn

    great list… browser hijacked again.

  • totalstranger

    and I almost forgot my favorite band, The Manic Street Preachers. Their new album, Journal For Plague Lovers was censored in the UK.

    whew, I’m done :)

  • oouchan

    Awesome list, Maggot! Some of these I’m glad they changed. Sometimes art can be taken too far, although, I didn’t have an issue with number one or the bonus.
    I actually have a poster of number one. Of course my family hates it, but I love it! :)

  • Shagrat

    Great List Maggot: I’ve seen copies of both 1 and the Bonus (though 1 was probably a ‘peeled’ copy) – however, I can’t for the life of me recall where: It was either my sister or one of her mates had the Beatles and a mate from school had the Roxy album: With the rise of second-hand record shops around Melbourne (selling vinyl), the Roxy albums are appearing occasionally – if they’re worth anything then Aussie record stores aren’t in the know!

  • Davy

    Great list!
    But I have to say some of these are pretty disgusting.

  • saber25

    Hey L (20) What’s controversial in that? Plz Explain…

  • Rufus

    what is the use of disturbing /whatever album covers? is it merely for attracting attention or is there some other reason for using such pics?

  • flamehorse

    Awesome stuff, Magg. I gotta say, that #10 oughta be #1. That’s disgusting. What the hell were these geniuses thinking? It’s never gonna pass a censor board. Why try?

    • Headbanger

      The whole album was actually just a protest against their label,roadrunner records,who were acting shitty to them.In fact,it is just their previous album re-recorded with crowd noises.

  • undaunted warrior

    What a list Maggot well done!

  • rendezvous0703

    wow. I never though appetite for destruction would be on this list, that cover is arty and no violence/nudity etc. you could see there without closer looking. and the 10th really shocked me and it should be on #1, not the beatles.

  • rendezvous0703

    oh, and I love marilyn manson album cover. it it’s one of the best album covers I’ve seen.

  • gabi319

    As an LV woman, I must declare that you shamelessly objectified women and I will not cut you some slack just because you were 14. Time for me to commence castigation…

    But for real, quite a bit of artwork back then wasn’t airbrushed and edited as heavily as they are today. I’m a bit jealous that those girls really are very proportional.

  • Diogenes

    funny how censorship has always made for a level of enticement. Ban something and it becomes either ubiquitous through controversy or swept in the corners turning rare and valuable. There’s lots of cases that basically come down to fashions and politics of the day (ie: what’s considered acceptable/unacceptable ((by who?))
    When it comes to the consumerism use of sex and violence, taping from the well is both a high and low art.
    The modern world of advertisement, how did we ever live without it?

    regarding “is it art?”, constitutional rights, copyrights, and controversy,

    Richard Prince’s Spiritual America comes to mind.

    ahh, the days of Zappa and Tipper

  • Mac

    What about “Mayhems” cover of “Dawn of the black hearts” depicting the Lead vocalist after committing suicide.

  • saopauloesquecida

    The ‘wiser’ comment on the bonus cover was the best! Couldn’t agree more! Nice list!

  • teacherman

    Amorica is a great album. Just wanted to let y’all know

  • VI6SIX

    FUCK CENSORSHIP They can take away our sanity, but not our interwebz!! :)

    The album ‘Wake up and Smell the Carcass’ by the metal band ‘Carcass’ depicts a close up picture of JFK’s head on the autopsy table. Some places had the CD’s shipped with black plastic cases to cover it up.

    But that’s not as brutal as Mainstream Kiddie Porn though! O.o

    They should change the name to kidi-pedea

  • totalstranger

    @Mac (42): thats a damn cool cover! have you seen the Absurd cover with the tomstone of the kid they murdered?

  • Oh No Romo

    What, no Smell the Glove?

  • archangel

    wow… artistically interesting album covers!

  • mom424

    Excellent list Maggot.

    I'm not particularly offended by the Blind Faith cover either. Sure she's naked but there is no attempt to sexualize her at all, entirely unlike the Scorpions cover. The supposed "mirror cracks" looks more like bondage and the pose she's in is horrid. The Blind Faith album is not porn. Maybe not art, but not pornography either.

    I find it far more horrifying that images of death, destruction, and violence cause far less brouhaha than a naked picture of a girl. Death and dismemberment is fine, just make sure we don't see no boobies. Nudity is not a big deal to me – and it shouldn't be to anyone else either.

    • johnbgood52

      AMEN!! What the hell is wrong with people these days? They can look at images of violence, torture and death and barely an eye, but show them a bit of skin – especially if the model is under 18 – and they’re instantly afflicted with terminal self-righteousness. What’s the big deal? It’s just nudity. It’s nothing to be ashamed of – or afraid of.

      Odd too that nude images of young girls seem to push their buttons a lot more than similar images of young boys. Why the apparent double standard?

      • johnbgood52

        Barely BAT an eye, I mean. Damn typos.

  • ianz09

    @Mac (42): Oh man, that cover is disturbing! It doesn’t qualify though, because I don’t think they changed it. Maybe I’m wrong though.

    Damn good list Maggot! That was an interesting start to my day. Well written I might add.

  • grant

    The Dead Kennedys 1985 album, Frankenchrist, which included the explicit titular subject of H. R. Giger’s Penis Landscape should be at least a bonus!
    I guess technically it shouldn’t be on this list since it was on the inside gatefold – not on the cover but since
    the band was charged with distribution of harmful matter to minors, it really should be!

  • GTT

    Oh great… Now I´m going to sound like a prude! I really think those two child pics are kiddie porn trying to pass as “art.” Why anyone in their right mind would think that a naked 11-year-old girl is appropriate for anything other than a direct ticket to jail is beyond me. It´s disgusting.

    The picture of the butt hole (#10) is just wrong. And I hate to ask, but is that ass hair you can see at the top of the pic??

    Some of the others are pretty lame in comparison… A finger that looks like it might be his penis? A little pubic hair? And the dog genitals?? Someone had to be actively looking for that!

    @gabi319 (40): I agree. Who cares if one of those girls has a drag queen face… I wish I looked that good in black lace underwear…

  • Gabriel

    The only one i knew would be on this list is the Virgen Killer cover. The other ones i didn’t know, or had forgotten about.

  • The ill-conceived album cover is a hallmark of the industry. (Hell, if This Is Spinal Tap makes a reference to it, it’s a hallmark.) Fine list.

    As an aside, in the pre-internet days there was a real price discrepancy on Butcher Covers between the East Coast and the West Coast. There were more First State covers available out west, so prices were lower there. (Perhaps word got out as to why they were being pulled and some store clerk got wise to the possibilities.)

  • valerie solanes

    what disturbs me, aside from the child pornography, is the fact people are being called “prudes” for NOT somehow enjoying or TOLERATING child pornography? when did that standard change?it’s disturbing. NONE of this is art in my eyes. Censorship is always going to be enforced when something is sold to the public. …Child walks into a record shop and notices some of this shit? Yeah, i think we need to do a little censorship. having some “self expression” is great and what not, but surely the music should be the main source of expression here? I’m just sick of all this sex-obsessed smutty rubbish that people get so defensive about and try to justify it with some tired old “freedom of expression” shtick. how about some freedom to not be subjected to every moronic musician’s sick mind who principally just want to sell through shock. and guns and roses? I’m more offended at the tackyness of their godawful music than i am at anything Ive seen here.

  • psychosurfer

    This list is interesting but rather PC (I guess that´s LV standards).
    There´s a lot of grotesque album covers by Metal bands, but mostly those are cheap gore images aimed at yellow pages fans.
    In terms of controversy there´s a Christian Death cover that shows Christ shooting heroin.
    In terms of a shocking image, I find Rage Against the Machine´s first album really overwhelming:
    But for me the most intense must be John Zorne´s Naked City:

  • El the erf

    @valerie Count me as one of your fans.

  • Ghost

    Great list,But I take exception to using nude pictures of kids to sell albums and calling it art.
    I think back in the 70s the group Boney M had an album cover with all the members naked,but they cleverly used parts of each others anatomy to cover up the offensive parts.I was a kid at the time but the album left a lasting impression on me.

  • It’s Just Dave

    The Scorpions did not seem to learn anything regarding the Virgin Killers cover. The following album, Lovedrive, had to have an alternative cover too.

  • El the erf

    Wow, Manson surely does make a statement with his tomfoolery. And he doesn’t dissapoint with his music either. Sounds great! Looks even better!

  • Happypants78

    Most of these bands should have their music banned as well.
    Thanks maggot, for the close up asshole first thing in the morning. Asshole.

  • Garash

    I actually got the original album cover of the valley of death album.

  • Jetson

    The without a doubt most shocking album cover ever is a cover for a bootleg albúm from the band Mayhem in wich the singer apears with his head litteraly blown, pieces of his brain all over the place and his wrists visibly slit.

    the photo was taken only few hours later the singer commit suicide.

    the photo was taken by a band-mate ; )

    check it here:

  • Pedro

    the offspring’s self titled album could be there too

  • Carole

    So only conservative retailers have a problem with depictions of graphic rape ?!
    I’m sick of morons who try to pass this garbage off as “art” it’s pornography, it’s sick. These bands do this because their work sucks and they can’t attract attention any other way than to create fake controversy.
    Guns and Roses. Gee where are they now ? Nowhere

  • ben

    im a lil shocked you didnt include at least one cannibal corpse album cover. a majority of there albums as a whole are banned in germany because of the covers

  • Green Eyes

    @47 – my first thought too. You brung the LOLs.

    Really fantastic list Maggot…really interesting. Good work!

  • pestomama

    Valerie, I am with you. And Randall. It’s crap!

  • Maggot

    Thanks for the comments, folks.

    @romerozombie (5): I knew that Beatles cover would be number one. They’re everywhere and I’m tired of it.

    Lol I knew someone would have that objection and I almost included a little caveat in the write-up mentioning that, but it was already too long so I trimmed it. I put it there (and Bowie at #2) because of the $$ value.

    @Tenebrae (16): Ritual de lo Habitual

    Good call Tenebrae. I really wanted to include that one because of the humorous use of the 1st Amendment text. The only reason I didn’t was because from what I’d read, they released both versions simultaneously as a pre-emptive strike, knowing the one cover could have problems. That’s not to say it “doesn’t count” of course, but that’s why I pulled it in favor of others.

    @Mac (42): Dawn of the black hearts

    Yeah this one is great (so to speak). It’s a bootleg though, so I didn’t include it on my list.

    @ben (66): im a lil shocked you didnt include at least one cannibal corpse album cover.

    I was writing this reply just as you posted that. Ok here’s another bonus for you all: have a look-see at Tomb of the Mutilated by Cannibal Corpse (NSFW, you have been warned!):

  • General-Jake

    I got 3 young girls.. one almost ten. ANYONE who uses kids naked like that deserves to be shot in the balls with a .12 gauge.
    The only cover album i remember to be bad when i was young was a Cannibal Corpse album… I believe it was called Gallery of Suicide

  • sim

    The Coups original design for the Party Music album should be up there in the top ten as it originally depicted the twin towers being blown up and was scheduled for release in September 2001 now thats real controversy.

  • demirah

    great list most of them are Rock & metal…..well what did you espect??

  • Tenebrae

    @Maggot (69):

    One does have to give Jane’s Addiction credit for having the foresight to create 2 album covers.

    For being the “land of free speech” the US is extremely prudish about nudity. The excuse is always “Think of the children! Won’t SOMEONE think of the children!?!” I find it appalling that the human body is so sexualized, by this society, that the mere appearance of a naked body is deemed to be a perverted expression and should be hidden from children. Look at the ridiculous Janet Jackson scandal a few years back. *gasp* A nipple.. OOh noo!!

    THAT being said, I do NOT advocate the sexualization of children. There’s no reason to put naked, sexualized pictures of children on an album. One can be sensational and get controversy without exploiting kids.

  • General Tits Von Chodehoffen

    Great list. Cannibal Corpse album covers are pretty nasty. Also there is the Mayhem album cover with a picture of the singer with his head blown off on it.

  • General Tits Von Chodehoffen

    O I almost forgot, Carcass used their album covers to promote vegitarianism

  • kea718

    I actually have that Blind Faith album…

  • zigra

    So happy to see that people on LV don’t justify the use of young children for nude photography as “art”. I have actually been in a record store with a huge poster of the Blind Faith cover on the wall (in Athens GA of all places), and NPR even showed it as the album cover when they streamed a song from the album on their website.

    Here is a link to an article about the genesis of the Blind Faith album cover – NSFW since a huge photo of the cover appears on the front page of the link:

    The sheer volume of people (parents especially – AARGGH) who thought this was a good idea horrifies me.

  • Buried

    Awesome list. I think the relative obscurity of most metal bands is what keeps their album covers from getting “banned.” I never knew about the Pantera FBD cover even though I’m a fan so that was a surprise.

    On another note, I think what some posters on this list are having a problem separating out government “censorship” with a retailer refusing to carry something. A business isn’t required to sell any albums at all let a lone ones that disturb or offend them. When the government steps in and says retailers can’t sell them then thats real censorship and it really doesn’t happen much (at all?) in the US.

    Also I’m more offended by there being no outrage about graphic violence on the part of so-called conservatives, but glimpse some boobs and they have a stroke (no pun intended).

  • scarlettears

    haha! i have the blind faith uncensored album cover. never thought about it in a perverted way though, with the airplane and everything…

  • Maggot is my bitch

    Boring list by a boring author.

  • julipe

    I see nothing wrong with the Blind Faith album cover myself. I own the original album and happen to think it is a nice picture. It differs hugely from the The Scorpions cover in that it does not appear as sexualised. On the Blind Faith cover she is simply nude holding a model airplane. However the pose of the young girl on the Virgin Killers album looks suggestive. To me that is the difference. Nudity does not necessarily denote pornography, and in the case of the Blind Faith album i view that as art, not the least bit distasteful.

  • erickarthik

    Nude kids !!!! OMG i think they are F’d up pedophiles

  • BooRadley

    I bought the original cover of Blind Faith at our local record store when I was a teenager. There was a 3-4 inch round sticker covering the girl’s body. It wasn’t a parental warning sticker like we have today – I think it had the band members’ names on it , or something of that sort. I peeled off the sticker very carefully. I don’t remember being shocked, but I knew right away that henceforth I would have to hide it from my mother!

  • Maggot

    @Maggot is my bitch (80): I can’t deny the fact that you like me, right now, you like me!

  • Alison

    I generally hate censorship. However, nude 11-year-olds is crossing the line. That should not be allowed to be marketed. It makes me sick to think the nude girls on covers #4 and #3 had parents who actually let them pose like that.

    As for the non-kiddie porn covers, none of which offend me, you didn’t name specific stores that contributed to all this censorship but I’m guessing it was hypocritical “family friendly” shitholes like Wal-Mart.

  • Dom

    I’m surprised Geto Boys/We Can’t be Stopped didn’t make it.

  • Robert
  • Scott

    what causes people to be offended? what can be said about someone who is offended by nothing?

  • Maggot

    @Alison (85): you didn’t name specific stores that contributed to all this censorship but I’m guessing it was hypocritical “family friendly” shitholes like Wal-Mart.


  • gav

    I too abhor the sexualization of children. It pains me that the only acceptable nudes in art are babies and adults. I think the human body is beautiful and though art can be tasteful and beautiful incorporating the human nude at a variety of ages and stages of life, the perversity of people and sexualization of children has, in essence, destroyed an entire category of art which i wish could have survived. I would never accept plastering my nude 10-year old on the cover of an album, and have to wonder about what kind of parent would allow that. I do recall seeing photographs in a variety of galleries which I thought were tasteful and artistic, devoid of any sexuality or erotica. I could at least see the possibility of that, if one knew the artist, the medium, supervised the shoot and had some control over the negatives and how/where they were displayed.
    I weep for the loss to the art world. I weep even more for the children who were exploited, used and/or abused via sexualization of their beauty and innocence.
    I wonder, since I clicked on those Wiki links, if my name got added to some database somewhere….

    Anyway, Great list Maggot. Looking forward to more!

  • bluewitch

    how about the album cover of a Norwegian black metal band Mayhem? Dawn of the Black Hearts? I find the cover very offensive though I am not sure if it was controversial.

  • GTT

    @Randall (55):

    AND YES ASSHOLES, THAT GOES FOR YOUR BELOVED GUNS N ROSES TOO. Goddamn dumbass crap-taste people I have to share this earth with….

    I used to be a G&R fan when I was younger (mind you I was born in 1981). It all ended when I went to a concert offered by Axel Rose a few years ago in NY. Try to picture a paunchy, middle-aged man with dreadlocks trying to sound cool (and not reaching any of the notes). I can no longer hear one of their songs without blushing in shame.

    “Origin of the Feces” is a freakin’ joke an eleven year old would think is unfunny.

    I dont know… I think it´s the Roman facts thread where someone actually used an “I banged your mother” retort. Never, ever underestimate the immature stupidity of some.

    And Roxy Music—(of course I had all three of these records) hot chicks, what’s wrong with that? But I always felt the one on the right looked a bit like a man–baby!–in the face.

    That´s the one I meant… Still wished I looked like her in lace underwear though…

  • Buried

    Mayhem never had enough mainstream popularity to generate any controversy outside of Black Metal circles. I doubt any major/medium sized retailers even carry Mayhem. That is a nasty cover though. The guy on the cover went by the name “Dead” when he was alive.

  • D train

    One of the biggest problems facing Western culture are the assumptions that A) Nudity is inherently sexual.
    And B) Sexuality is inherently negative.

    I’d say the biggest contributor to my positive body image (and trust me, I haven’t got the kind of body many people would be proud of) is the fact that as a child sexuality was never something all that taboo to my friends and I.

    If the children weren’t harmed in the taking of these photos I see no reason why they should seem all that offensive.

    Everyone needs to stop treating their bodies as if it’s their dirty little secret.

  • ggggg

    you should have put the mayhem ( i think it is boot lag )cover with the band mate who killed himself . it is a real picture it is not as controversial because they are sadly not that know but by metal fans but it likes sick

  • ggggg
  • Hayley Quinn

    Been lurking for awhile now and am so thoroughly impressed with the research you put in jfrater! Particularly when it comes to Columbine (a research interest of mine) and New Zealand (where I’m from).

    Thankyou :D

  • Nickos13

    Where is all the cannibal corpse covers?

  • cody

    put more warning on number 3…. thats a horrid cover… and feel almost illegal. closed it as fast as i opened it.

  • Shifty

    In H. R. Giger’s original artwork for ELP’s Brain Salad Surgery you can see the head of a penis just under the chin of the lady/scull.

    It wouldn’t qualify for this list because it was airbrushed out before the album was ever released.

  • LMXV

    Finally a list showing what Marilyn Manson does best. He just wants to show how Christians can be hypocrites. CAN BE, not always and not every single one.

    I’ve seen more graphic crucifixes at the local churches than his own album cover. Yet he is still deemed inappropriate. Then again he does try to be offensive for theatrical purposes. It’s all a show people, there’s no real devil worship or animal sacrifices. If you think that, you might as well call the directors and producers of horror films satanists or potential serial killers.

  • Neil

    When I saw the title of this list, the scorpions sprang to mind. I’ve only ever seen a picture of that album cover once before and do not want to see it again. To me, it’s more shocking and offensive than some of the ‘death’ photos that have been featured here on various lists in the past. Kudos for giving us the option of NOT viewing it.

    Great list.

  • cindyrulz

    @Randall (55): I like Pantera. I can understand why you may not. It is definitely not for everyone.

    Awesome List!!

  • GTT

    @mom424 (98): I agree… I have nothing against adult nudity or even porn (I dont particularly like it but I have no real problem with it). My beef is with exploiting a child. You want to pose nude for an album cover as a full-grown, thinking adult, go ahead. That 11-year-old is not even close to mature enough to decide if she wants to use her body that way.

  • Dead Head

    I have owned that blind faith album for about 30 years now and it never even dawned on me that it had any sexuality to it at all .. Its a 10 or 11 year old girl on there .. Im pretty sure those are not for having sex with .. I think the people who get offended by it should try and figure out why they immediately think of sex when seeing a 10 year old girl ..

    In the name of science I will try and rub one out to it tonite and post back the results .. But I will state again that I had no idea that it was sexual in any way until reading all the offended people post about it in this thread .. I will take your word for it and use it as a masturbatory aid tonite .. but under protest .. I hope you guys are right ..

  • ohsleeper

    the original roxy music cover is actually the one used in the itunes music store

  • Jess

    @zigra (77):

    Thank you for the link, it was interesting to hear the story behind it.

  • scarboro_scamp

    I would suggest W.A.S.P.’s Animal (Fuck Like a Beast) as another album cover for consideration.

  • zigra

    @Dead Head: I can’t decide if your post is serious or not. I admit that I am really offended at the Blind Faith cover, and I actually have asked myself why, which is why I sought out the story behind the cover. And reading it really makes me think that guy is a pedo, and your little joke about making that photo a masturbatory aid was in pretty poor taste IMHO. Everyone knows that breasts turn guys on (hence the lust over the Roxy music cover), so I don’t understand why the breasts of an 11 year old girl is exempt.

  • gav

    I’m wondering then if the cover to Nirvana’s “Nevermind” album is considered child pornography.
    If so, why? If not, why not?

  • Crocoduck

    Goatse music!

  • ianz09

    And another thing, Maggot. It would have been very easy to fill this up with all grunge rock and metal. Great job keeping it varied, it was a very well written list!

  • 14gotmyMANTRA

    Amazingly awesome list. The beatles baby cover has always, always given me the creeps.

  • Randall

    @GTT (92):

    “I can no longer hear one of their songs without blushing in shame.”

    Aren’t you glad that shame came to you and roused your senses before it was too late?

    You were born in 1981? I was sixteen in 1981. You have made me nostalgic now.

    “I dont know… I think it´s the Roman facts thread where someone actually used an “I banged your mother” retort. Never, ever underestimate the immature stupidity of some.”

    Okay, yes. Point taken. An intelligent eleven year old.

    “That´s the one I meant… Still wished I looked like her in lace underwear though…”

    so… you don’t? What DO you look like in lace underwear? It’s not *scary* is it?

  • brak

    for centuries, nay millenia, it was the rule, not the exception, to mate with 13-16 year old girls. this offense at pedophillia is a very recent social invention. to be sure, sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children (say, under 13) is aberrant, but again, simply being exposed to naked pre-pubescent children is nothing new. it was not controversial during, say, the Renaissance.

    the question remains, what is the real significance of recently manufactured, purely socially-driven (i.e. not natural) controversy? what is the source?

    are there any natural sources of offense? it seems that most people have to “be taught” to be offended at things. just curious to get your thoughts.

  • Oskiewewe

    i am not sure if this has been said yet, but Slayers album cover for “God Hates Us All” originally had a picture of the bible with the Slayer symbol scratched into it and covered in blood and with about a dozen nails into it.
    It was later changed to that a white plain with four gold cross’s.

  • lo

    fun and revealing list maggot, i especially like the one chosen by the labels marketing people w/out the band’s input -forget these “evil” bands, look at the “evil” of ad people!

    (not that i think there was evil here, just misapplied marketing…..)

  • PrimeroPeruano

    those nude children album covers won’t get this site in trouble or anything right? Just saying cause I dont want the FBI comin at my house cause I clicked the album cover link…

  • the black crowes, classic band, great energy and sound.

  • Jrodickens

    Well put together list

  • superbloop

    Something just jumped the shark. I don’t know what, but something did.

  • delusioned

    haha you offended people are mindless children. It’s some fucking snot nosed kids tits. who really gives a shit. grow the fuck up

  • givenchance

    number 8 impresses! there is no surprise it was banned!

  • Cernunnos

    yes, the picture for “virgin killer” is over the top. but i still love it. love it for exposing america’s fucking hypocrisy with advertising themselves as a free country. pah!

  • Tenebrae

    You know, personally, I never in a million years would have looked at a picture of a naked child and thought anything but that it was a naked child. However, there are far too many sexual predators out there who DO find them sexy.

    Hell, I got a nastygram and a warning from MySpace for posting a “sexually explicit” image. The horrifyingly offensive image? My 4 month old in the bathtub. … sexually explicit …

    Sadly, there are people who think that and it makes the bile come up in my throat.

  • astraya

    I wonder if someone famous several hundred years ago had painted images roughly equivalent to the Blind Faith and Virgin Killer covers – would we now hang them on gallery walls and proclaim them as “art”? I’m sure at least some of the nudes painted by Great Masters were under-age.

  • saber25


  • superhare

    thanks for posting, but i saw this allready
    nevertheless, interesting stuff

  • psychosurfer

    I just listened to a Mayhem song called “Funeral fog”, no wonder why the guy committed suicide.

    @Robert (87): The Dwarves on the other side sound great Robert, thanks for the great album covers and the introduction to the band!

    @Dead Head (106): The one intelligent level headed comment on the subject. Thank you.

  • Vera Lynn

    Led Zepplin caught a lot of heat for their Houses of the Holy cover. Those were really little kids.

  • kennypo65

    USA: Violence good nudity bad. Although he was referring to movie ratings, I think that Jack Nicholson summed up the hypocracy of it all when he said, “If you suck a tit, it’s an X. If you cut it off with a sword, it’s a PG.”
    Also, Brak is right, this whole age of consent thing is a very recent construct. Those of you who find nudity in children offensive, ask yourselves, “Am I offended because a child is being exploited? Or am I just projecting my own sexual confusion?” because if the image is not intended to tittilate, then maybe it’s just you.

  • GTT

    I find it funny that so many people are talking about how for centuries under-aged girls were wedded and bedded and it was no big deal. Well, several hundred years ago slavery was also the norm. And husbands “owned” their wive´s bodies and could claim them any time they wanted, disregarding the woman´s inclinations.

    Times change people.

    You might think it´s stupid that some people are offended because no one “really gives a shit” about “fucking snot nosed kids tits.” Try telling that to a seven-year old who´s been sexually abused. It´s not some minor thing let me tell you.

  • bucslim

    Pretty amazed that in some of the comments I’ve read that there are some folks who seemingly don’t have a problem with naked children being on album covers.

    We’ve all got pictures in our baby book of us jumping out of the tub into a fuzzy towel in Mommy’s loving arms. The kind of picture that is passed around at Thanksgiving or Christmas when you’re relatives are over for the holidays and everybody grins. That kind of scenario is harmless and most people have gone through it. Some folks have had to endure the embarrassment of Mom pulling out those snaps when the prom date comes over. Thank you Mom, I wasn’t having enough issues with my teenage body to begin with.

    But slapping a naked kid on an album entitled ‘Virgin Killer’ is particularly grotesque, twisted, sick, vile and just fucking insane. Those record exec’s who thought that was a good idea should be lined up and shot. I wonder what the board meeting was like on that?

    If this doesn’t make you sick to your stomach, if you don’t think this is vile and disgusting, if you’re ok with all of that, then you have some serious, serious problems.

    Drillbit in Bobby’s bunghole? Sure, fine. A few dark strands spilling over the bikini? OK, whatever. David Bowie with dog nuts, ok, just as long as they don’t have a picture of him licking them which is normal dog behavior.

    A naked young girl child on the cover of an album “Virgin Killer?’ You crossed the fucking line about 300 miles ago. You go straight to hell in my book.

  • omniscientist

    My first post here.
    Butthole Surfers also released a “clean” version with profanities removed and with an alternate album cover of their album “Electriclarryland for the american market.

  • Randall

    @astraya (129):

    Not so fast, astraya. As is known, I am a student of art history from way back, and therefore know a thing or two about it. And there is a big difference between “underage” (which requires definition) and “prepubescent.” I know of very few examples of prepubescent nudes in classical art, though of course they DID exist… but they were no more *generally* accepted then than they are today—at least in terms of what was considered artistically tasteful, never mind in “moral” terms.

  • rizzwa

    Ew,number 10 was pretty gross and juvenile, obviously just done for shock factor. Number #3 and #4 were both very disturbing, but I think the Virgin Killers one was worse because it was sexually suggestive, whereas the child was just naked (for no apparent reason) in the Blind Faith album. I don’t think any of these should of been banned except for number 4 and possibly number 3. The Marilyn Manson one was really cool in my opinion

  • Phuk Yiu

    i was gonna say Frankenchrist… what about 2 Live Crew? Led Zeppelin?…

  • nyota0uhura

    So, is the Manson cover rare or expensive now? I have it and was utterly surprised to find it on this list. I bought it in Europe though, maybe they weren’t as hysteric as the Americans about it here?

  • L

    @saber25 (34):

    Wiki: The album cover image is a pixelated photo of the pubis of Isabelle Adjani

  • Kennoth

    What about Fuck Me Jesus? :D

  • look at the racks on them you say? they have big hairy bushes in their underwear and u point out their average breasts. LOL

  • surfinbird1

    Slayer should be on this list, for God hates us all, where the cover was a man carving slayer into his wrist and was just replace by a cover with blood on the bible

  • GTT

    Well, I was just reading CNN a few minutes ago (yeah, yeah, I hate CNN too but I was bored at work) and they have a story about how Roman Polanski was refused bail in a Swiss court. Not knowing what he had done, and figuring it was probably something to do with taxes, I opened the page only to find out that this man fled from the US in 1977 after pleading guilty to having sex with a 13-year-old girl. He was 43 at the time.

    So to all the people who just dont understand how someone can be offended by these images… Get a clue. There are sickos out there and there is no need to expose these girls.

  • GTT

    @Randall (116): :lol:

    I just saw your post. And yes, I have been shamed into reason. I still get excited when I hear SWEET CHILD OF MINE on the radio sometimes but then I remember Axel´s paunch and I have to change the station.

    And as to the rest, no, it´s not like I have belly/chest hair… but a six-pack and a 23 inch waist would be nice.

    On the other hand, I´ve never heard my husband complain! ;)

  • Dead Head

    I was serious about owning the album for 30 years and not once having the idea of it being child pornography .. Ive also had a copy of Houses of the Holy for roughly the same amount of time and again .. never considered either to be sexual in any way ..

    Virgin Killer .. another story .. that was definitely exploitation .. I’ve always known that it was sexual and just this side of child pornography .. But what can you do .. you know how the Germans are .. aside from the Japanese they are about as decadent as you get .. You buy the album .. make a mental note not to leave your children unattended anywhere near the Shenkar boys .. and move on with your life .. Go rent a copy of Christiane “F” .. If its even legal in America .. It may not be .. Those Germans love their little girls ..

    anyways I was not serious about using my Blind Faith album as a masturbatory aid .. thats sick .. I have an advertisement for Coppertone for those purposes ..

  • Maggot

    @bucslim (136): Well said, buc.

    As an aside, one comment you made reminded me of this situation:

    We’ve all got pictures in our baby book of us jumping out of the tub into a fuzzy towel in Mommy’s loving arms.

    Recently there was a story in the news where some parents are suing Wal-mart because an employee blew the whistle on some “bath-time” photos that were turned in for printing. It’s the classic scenario that people bring up:

    Apparently, Child Protective Services removed the three children from the home for about a month while an investigation took place. Obviously a number of things went wrong in this situation, namely, why did it take a month for CPS to determine that the photos were “innocent” pics? Although it does remain to be seen just how innocuous the pics really were; follow-up stories suggested that a few of them could’ve been construed as crossing the line (whatever that line is) by the way the kids were posed, regardless of the innocence of the parents’ intent.

    But my point of this rant is – As much as I am NOT a fan of Wal-mart and their heavy-handed censoring ways and morality stances, in this case I don’t fault them or its employee for just doing their job. The reaction of most people I’ve come across has been to blame Wal-mart for over-reacting. But I blame the parents. What were they thinking when they let these photos out of their hands? What if that employee also happened to be some goon who posted them on the web or distributed copies amongst a ring of likeminded pervs? Even “innocent” pictures can be used nefariously if fallen into the wrong hands. Instead, those parents just want to blame everyone but themselves in effort to make a buck. Ridiculous. End of rant.

  • Maggot

    @GTT (147): And as to the rest, no, it´s not like I have belly/chest hair… but a six-pack and a 23 inch waist would be nice.

    The old line “If I told you that you had a smokin hot body, would you hold it against me?” comes to mind…

  • Luisa

    I remember a disturbing cover from the band Brujeria, Matando Güeros.

    Check it, it´s a real human head, quite shocking for me.

  • _-DAN-_

    I don’t understand why people hate censorship of nudity and violent images so much.

  • Jason

    i once went into a record store and came across this album by The Dwarves

    at the time i found it kind of disturbing.

  • BrotherMan

    Still looking for an original Origin of the Feces album. Most vinyl copies go for a lot more than I am willing to pay on e-bay.

    153: Jason, I own a copy of that Dwarves CD. Great punk band. Listen to them sometime if you get the chance…if that is your style.

    There are also some countries that have banned stuff from Cannibal Corpse, like their Butchered at Birth CD:

    and Tomb of the Mutilated (one of their best albums):

    I thought that I read some place that Deicide’s album Once Upon the Cross was attacked and they had to change their album cover format:

  • delusioned

    @_-DAN-_ (152):

    it’s because you are not smart if you can’t figure that one out. and you prob. shouldn’t vote/breed.

    im guessing you voted obama?

    ding ding ding!

    how close was i?

  • Shazbut

    You have to judge the image for literally what it is, not how it might be perceived. The albums with the young girls are arguably exploitative in that the girls might not be old enough to understand the implications of the image. But photos are taken of children all the time, and they’re in films and they’re on TV. The kids don’t understand the consequences or the implications there either. The only reason why people don’t react with similar horror to that is because manipulating children is not the real issue people have a problem with. It happens all the time everywhere, just as adults manipulate adults as well. Sexuality is the real issue, and it inevitably boils down to our own discomfort with sexuality.

    What is inherently wrong with the Blind Faith picture? Not the motivations behind it, whatever they may be. Not what people might think of it. Just the picture. There is nothing wrong with it. It’s a picture of an 11yr old girl. She’s not unhappy. She’s not being abused. She gave full consent. If you have a problem with it, then you either have a problem with the human body, or you are worrying about whether the photographer was aroused at the time, or whether someone somewhere might look at the picture and become aroused. That has nothing to do with the girl. Surely the issue should be about the girl not you or your disgust at a hypothetical future situation.

    Perhaps these photos shouldn’t be taken because of the wider implications. But people have to calm down. It’s been said before time and again, but the problem is one of sexuality. When something is resisted it only strengthens, and America is notoriously uncomfortable with sex. In other countries, people just HAVE sex and shut up about it. Because they’re not afraid, their sexuality doesn’t become perverted. When people stop running away from their own bodies, images like the ones above seem a lot less threatening.

  • astraya

    @Randall (138): There’s a famous painting, the title or painter of which I can’t remember or track down. It features two sisters approx 17 and 15, from the waist up, topless. One has just been betrothed to a nobleman of some sort. The other is squeezing her sister’s nipple to symbolise that the first sister will bear the nobleman a son and heir. Do you know the painting I’m talking about? My question is: would anyone paint a picture like that now, or take an equivalent photo, and put it on the cover of an album?

  • Randall

    @astraya (156):

    That sounds vaguely familiar—my first thought was to say Velasquez, but in rummaging back through my mind, on second thought I think not. I’ll have to put some thought to this.

    Your question is harder to answer; it again comes back to what I said before–there is a world of difference between what WE today might call “underage” and what has *always* been *prepubescent.* Girls who are 17 and 15 are NOT prepubescent (usually). OUR modern legal definition (which is not even standardized across the board) of 18 being “of age” is by no means the standard that has applied throughout all time.

    “Pornography” is usually described as “titillation” and “exploitation”—or exploitation for the purpose of titillation. It’s generally recognized that the use of prepubescent children for purposes of “titillation” is, quite simply, kiddie porn. Now, of course, sometimes it isn’t always easy to say what is meant to be “titillating” and what isn’t.

    Now, it might be easy to say that a painter in, say, the 16th or 17th century who painted nudes of teenage girls was simply a pervert–and those who wanted to look at such paintings were perverts. But do we really want to jump to that conclusion without examining the artistic merit of an individual painting? I’m not so comfortable with that.

    ON THE OTHER hand, our standards of propriety and decency have changed today, where we place a greater value on protecting the notion of “childhood,” and so we place a strict demarcation between adulthood and what is NOT adult. And the two are not to mix, sexually. I think we all feel that this is a good thing, of course.

    But we have to be cautious about applying this standard to the past. Children were exploited horribly in the past, of course—but not all artistic depictions of children were exploitative. Now, as I say, I think any nude of a prepubescent child–except infants and toddlers, of course, which we would hope NO ONE finds in ANY way sexual or titillating–is suggestive of what we, for lack of a better word, can call “pornography.” Even this might vary from work to work, but as I said earlier, I can recall very few example of child-nudes from the history of art that I’m aware of, that are in any way titillating. Surely a few exist, but I think they’re in the minority. A couple come to mind, but these are depictions of the lot of children in societies that were alien to the painter, so one might say they represented a judgement call on the part of the artist—“look at how they view children in the East,” for instance—BUT… the depiction of post-pubescent individuals under the age of, say, 18—is slightly more common. Again, not a regular occurence—I can still only think of a few examples off the top of my head—and you came up with one. But are we going to judge those by the same standard?

    The Blind Faith album cover I always found more than a little strange—but it’s curious how in the 70s we didn’t seem to react to it with the same level of revulsion as many do today. I don’t know why that is. I’ve always looked at that thing and thought it was simply a kind of poor piece of art. And I question the choice made by the photographer/artist. Why an under-formed girl? It’s not enough, in my view, to say THAT is kiddie porn! But it’s close. It’s odd. It always left a strange impression and still does. Of course we can say that it was probably *meant* to be disturbing. But then again—to what end? Is there any merit there, or is it just bad taste, pure and simple? I’d definitely be inclined to the latter judgement.

    The Scorpions “Virgin Killer” photo is altogether different, or at least a degree different. It’s CLEARLY in bad taste–in frankly stupid “taste”–and offers nothing BUT a disturbing and exploitative image meant to both bother and titillate. The pose is frank and, of course, rather meant to be sexual, we feel. It’s a pretty disgusting idea. And if anything, it’s reflective of a kind of sick, arrested-adolescent mindset that’s prevalant in the little “culture world” that bands like the Scorpions–and those who listen to them–represent. Quite simply, people who listen to heavy metal aren’t “grown-ups” in the real sense–however chronologically old they are–and mature ideas of life, sexuality, propriety, etc., are always skirted around in such a subculture. I regularly mock people who listen to such music quite simply because *I* grew out of it when I was about 12 years old. As anyone who is in any way truly mature *ought* to. But many people don’t, and go through life stuck in some kind of mindset that remains glued there.

    Now, I’m not saying that all metal fans are kiddie-porn-loving perverts. What I mean to say is that they loosely identify with the same overall mindset which is *adolescent* in nature. The “Virgin Killer” photo is representative of the kind of low-brow, sickish “humor” you get, sometimes, with such a mindset. Women are objectified, as teenage boys objectify them. It’s not an “adult” way of looking at the world, or life.

  • ames801

    @Tenebrae (128): Same thing here-I had a picture of my daughter, nieces and nephews in a tub on facebook. I’ve seen so many pics like this of me and my sibs when I was little so I didn’t think anything of it. I had a few people suggest I take them down even though my facebook is private. I should reconsider my ‘friends’ list if anyone is looking at that picture as more than cute, right??!! Sheesh!

  • ames801

    @GTT (146): Even more appalling is the support he’s currently receiving from his peers…

  • bucslim

    @Shazbut (155):

    “It’s a picture of an 11yr old girl. She’s not unhappy. She’s not being abused. She gave full consent.”

    A few questions come to mind here, most notably, at what point does a person recognize the consequences of their actions? I’m sure it’s different for every person, but I’m reasonably certain that it isn’t 11 years old. In other words, Shazbut, how on earth can this girl give her consent and have any understanding of what she is actually doing? As decent human beings it is our duty to protect children from ever having to make these decisions. As parents, at least the good ones, we make important decisions for our children because we should want the best for them. So when some lout with a tripod and a Pentax asks if it’s ok for him to take a few snaps of Buffy in the buff, we beat the shit out of him. Why? It should be obvious, but there really isn’t any good reason to take a photo of a topless 11 year old girl, much less publish it for the world to see.

    Secondly, you state she’s not unhappy. Well how in God’s name do you know that? You state she’s not being abused, I would differ with you in the most strongest terms. Because if it was my daughter being asked to take her shirt off for some douchebag photog, I’d rip off his head and shit down his neck. Abuse doesn’t just have to physical. But after I was done with him, he would most certainly understand every facet of the word.

    On another level, do we really even need to have this kind of material to ‘promote’ a rock band? I understand that some groups or even an entire genre of music has a purpose to shock it’s audience. Why anyone would think it’s a good idea to place this on a cover shows a complete lack of decency. I know that’s what some people are aiming at and I’m not opposed to nudity – I friggen love the Ohio Players and their covers were swimming in sexuality and suggestiveness. Those chicks weren’t 11 or 12.

    Innocence and decency are words that seem to be lost now days, as if I’m some sort of fuddy-duddy or prude just because those words actually mean something to me. Art and pornography have a difficult time being defined into neat and digestible terms. Art becomes meaningless the minute you try to define it. And pornography has been argued for a very long time by smarter people than I am. I just don’t understand the nonchalant and passe attitude that would find these album covers as being ok. All I ask is to put your daughter in this situation, what would you do, what would you think, how would you react to some of the statements being made here.

    For me, I think we have a responsibility to keep children out of harm’s way. We have a responsibility to protect their innocence. Let Blind Faith or The Scorpions and the shit head record companies find some other image to promote their music.

  • Vera Lynn

    I know this is not at all music related, but what about the movie “Pretty Baby” It was with Brooke Shields and had a very sexual nature to it. And speaking of movies (as long as I opened the door)in “The Exorcist” Regan fucks herself with a crucifix. Id never let my kid do anything of that nature.

  • ames801

    @bucslim (161): Your comments go back to the Roman Polanski story. He initially wanted to meet with this young girl to take her picture. He, eventually, asked her to take her top off. And we all know (by her own testimony) what happened from there.

  • gabi319

    @astraya (156):
    I think what you’re referring to is the E Gabrielle d’Estees and one of her sisters . Remember the context? It was privately commissioned by the king of France and was found even less acceptable during the Renaissance than it is today.

    Been trying to read up on it but I still can’t find information that the girls were fifteen and seventeen and I can’t recall hearing that before. All I’ve found is Wiki saying she was twenty but let’s not forget it’s wiki. And remember, it was unsigned so the artist is unknown and the year is only a guess at best. Regardless, seventeen and twenty is vastly different than eleven.

    The actual painting can be misconstrued. As you said, some believe it is for her husband, some believe it was commissioned by and for the king. Some believe the breast touching symbolized fertility, while others believed it was sexual portraiture…kind of like a precursor to opening your briefcase and finding a “special photo” of your girlfriend inside (the king was by no means monogamous towards Mistress Gabrielle. One professor told me that he’s had fun with both sisters. She also speculated if it was at the same time). With the Virgin Killer’s album, there’s no mistaking its very message was to exploit the image of a eleven year old child. It’d be hard to give it any less-perverted meaning. With all the child labor and child exploitation laws in effect now, it’s hard to imagine that she’d be allowed to make the decision to do this by herself. Her legal guardian would have had to sign the consent forms and essentially forced the decision on her. Perhaps she was ok with the project but she was eleven years old. Can we really say she could make a rational decision and consider all the ramifications of said decision? That’s one huge difference between this 11 year old and the 17-20 year old in the painting.

  • Randall

    @ames801 (163):

    Well you know, not only that, but he essentially imprisoned her in the hotel room, not letting her leave… and drugged her.

  • Randall

    @gabi319 (164):

    Thanks for identifying that painting… now that I see it I remember it—it’s not the one I was thinking of, but obviously the one astraya meant.

  • ames801

    @Randall (165): Wasn’t her mom there as well?? I thought I read somewhere (which means it’s true) that her mom was just so star-struck she didn’t really see what was going on. AND Angelica Houston (?) walked in on them and turned around and left? Ug…these people, the lot of ’em, are a waste of flesh!

  • ames801

    @Randall (165): It was actually at Jack Nicholson’s house, right?

  • Randall

    @ames801 (167):

    I hadn’t heard any of that. And I *thought* it took place in a hotel room, but perhaps not. Probably the story is on Wikipedia, though of course that’s not always to be believed either.

  • ianz09

    @Randall (158): Well Randall, I must say I take issue with your comment. Now, everything pertaining to the distinction between art and child pornography is very valid, and I agree with what you say. I also commend you on how well written and thought out it was, very impressive. Now, I do take issue with the comments on metal fans. I am not offended per se, but hopefully you will see my side.

    “Quite simply, people who listen to heavy metal aren’t “grown-ups””

    This comment bothered me. Now, I completely understand this mindset, and am by no means claiming you ignorant, but I think the statement was a rather general stereotype. Many rock bands, particularly more mainstream ones (oddly enough), promote sexuality and a boozing, smoking, “immature” lifestyle. However, some slightly more underground bands (like I listen to) are more literate with their lyrics, they do not promote a shifty lifestyle, and despite a generally angry sound, promote individuality and encouragement.

    The band Hinder has recently seen quite a bit of airplay on the mainstream radio stations. This band is played because of their more mainstream sound, the hooks in their songs, and because their message is what society is currently promoting. SOme lyrics:
    “Get Stoned”

    Let’s go home and get stoned
    We could end up making love instead of misery
    Go home and get stoned
    ‘Cause the sex is so much better when you’re mad at me

    You wear me out
    (We can end up making love instead of misery)
    But it’s alright now

    Without a doubt
    Yeah, the breakup’s worth the makeup sex you’re giving me
    Let’s hash it out
    Cause you’re bitching and your yelling don’t mean anything
    Don’t count me out
    I can handle all the baggage that you’re carrying

    “The Best is Yet to Come”

    My first make-out session
    I learned my first lesson
    While trying to get to the next base
    When I slipped passed her waist
    She smacked my hand away
    Then I got a slap in the face

    If I could go back in time
    Wouldn’t change a damn thing in my life
    Love the dumb things we do when we’re young
    But the best is yet to come

    Compare this band to a much less mainstream band, Disturbed. Disturbed is widely regarded as dark, negative, and God forbid, Satanic. They are by no means Satanic. Their lyrics can and lately have been very empowering and positive. Their sound, compared to most metal bands, isn’t even terribly dark. Lyrics:


    Liberate your mind
    You motherfucker, you’re so narrow minded
    So narrow minded
    Liberate your mind
    Now motherfucker, will you liberate your mind this time?

    Bold motherfucker
    Don’t you limit your mind
    Can’t you see that the pace
    Has just fallen behind?
    All the hate in your heart
    Will be leaving you blind
    So bold motherfucker
    Don’t you limit your mind this time

    “I’m Alive”

    Never again will I be desolate
    And never again will I be reminded
    We’re living within the world of the jaded
    They doom inspiration
    It’s my obligation
    To never again, allow this to happen
    Where do I begin?
    The choices are endless
    Denying the sin
    My art, my redemption
    I carry the torch of my fathers before me

    The thing I treasure the most in life cannot be taken away
    There will never be a reason why I will surrender to your remorse
    To change myself, I’d rather die
    Lonely, we’ll not understand
    I will make the greatest sacrifice
    You can’t predict where the outcome lies
    You’ll never take me alive
    I’m alive
    I’m alive
    I’m alive

    “The Curse”

    Devastation, obliteration
    Are all in a part of exacerbation
    There’s no explaining my situation,
    Now why does this shit keep happening to me?

    I’ve held on too long just to let it go now,
    Will my inner strength get me through it some how ?
    Defying the curse that has taken hold
    Never surrender,
    I’ll never be overcome!

    As long as profanity is no indicator, I would personally say that those lyrics were positive lyrics. They are embedded in a heavier sound to reach out to people who believe that society is shunning them, the stereotypical emo, goth, or skateboard punk.

    Also, many heavy bands are very intelligent. Have you ever heard of a band called System of a Down? The band members are all of Armenian decent, and are very active in peaceful protests against genocide and war. The former lead singer Serj Tankian works with Rage Against the Machine guitarist Tom Morello with an organization called Axis of Justice, which is a front for the aforementioned protests. Many of System’s songs, with just a quick listen, are non-sensical and silly. However, with a little digging, every song has turned out to be a commentary. Such an odd gem is “Violent Pornography”, which seems like an obscene joke. This goofy song is in fact encouragement for their fans to “turn off your TV” and get out and be an active member of society, instead of being brainwashed by mindless violence and profanity. And you may argue that this is a hypocrisy (4 of the band’s 5 studio albums have Parental Advisory stickers), but the band does things their own way, and encourages their fans to express themselves as artists rather than violent troublemakers. System of a Down is truly a thinking man’s (extremely ADHD) rock band.

    “Now, I’m not saying that all metal fans are kiddie-porn-loving perverts. What I mean to say is that they loosely identify with the same overall mindset which is *adolescent* in nature.”

    A good statement, and has a lot of truth to it. However, most of the bands I listen to are intelligent, original, and mature. I tend to stray away from what I can only describe as crappy metal. System of a Down, Disturbed, Mushroomhead, and even the ever-angry Slipknot have very positive themes (despite the pissed off music) that encourage their fans to not conform to society’s negative guidelines, and to be artists. The fans of these bands will mosh and throw themselves about violently, but this is all that gets through. People see concert footage of shirtless miscreants bashing each other stupid. However, this outlet generally is what keeps some of these kids (many of whom feel shunned or deemed “sub-human” by society) from acting out violently or illegally outside of concerts. The lyrics of some of these bands, if I may be so audacious to say, are poetry. These poems are just accompanied by a heavy guitar and double bass peddle.

    I hope you understand the point I was making, agree or disagree. I am clean cut, I don’t own any more than 3 black shirts, no black shoes or pants, only one band shirt, and have only been to one rock concert. I do not drink, I do not smoke, I have never indulged in illegal drugs, I have a beautiful girlfriend of 14 months, and am attending college for a Spanish major to be an interpreter. My favorite bands are Mushroomhead, Korn, Hollywood Undead, Slipknot, Linkin Park, Disturbed, and System of a Down. I recommend the following songs from the above bands (respectively): Never Let It Go, Twisted Transistor, Paradise Lost, Psychosocial, Little Things Give You Away, Indestructible, and Aerials. If not a listen, a quick perusal of the lyrics is recommended. Thanks, I hope you agree with at least a bit! God only knows I spent forever typing this!

  • ianz09

    @saber25 (34): It’s a vagina.

  • Randall

    @ianz09 (170):

    I appreciate that you’re trying to defend your preferred musical tastes. To make it easier, let’s say that while I do dislike heavy metal, I’d say that we can characterize some varieties of it, as a form, as being more akin to the kind of thing I was talking about than others. But then this hardly dismisses the problem. There’s still an adolescent theme that runs through almost ALL heavy metal that I think it behooves anyone who gets past age… 25, say… to grow out of. No offense.

    Now, yes, I was generalizing. However, let’s be honest and admit that if you were shown the album cover “Virgin Killer” and were told the title of it, and then asked “what genre of music do you suppose that is?” most people, we all know, would almost assuredly assume it to be heavy metal.

    Now, in regards to “intelligent” lyrics or even positive messages–this argument fails to impress me. Yes, lots of heavy metal IS stupid. Lots of adolescents are stupid. But many aren’t, and not all heavy metal bands or lyrics are stupid. Intelligence, however, is NOT a sign of maturity. I’ve known lots of very smart people who were nevertheless still arrested adolescents.

    Now, sure—we’d hope that intelligent folk wouldn’t make the mistake that the Scorpions made… but what I was referring to is an OVERALL mindset within Metal, that promotes this kind of adolescent objectification of the world. Metal comes out of the adolescent male point of view, pure and simple. To deny this is to tell a lie. That doesn’t mean some girls don’t listen to metal–some do. But that isn’t what I’m talking about, either. Metal is informed by, and reflects, that male adolescent view that is self-centered, takes an objectifying view of the world–and particularly women–and is often associated with rage and/or a faux, fantasy-oriented “dark” view of reality. Oftentimes, as with emo music, this drifts over into self-parody without the “artists” or their listeners even being aware of it.

    That it’s not all negativity and violence and ruin and horror is great, sure. But I already knew that. I’m not some religious nut poo-pooing the Satanic pretensions of our decadent youth. I’m only commenting on the overall meaning of metal and what it’s attuned to. And that, pure and simple, is adolescence, and mainly a male adolescence.

    And yes, I’ve heard of System of a Down, and many other bands you could mention.

    I don’t deny that there are “sub genres” within metal. No, I’d never expect System of a Down or Rage Against the Machine to have ever had a cover like the Scorpions’ “Virgin Killer.” They’re smarter and more politically-oriented acts. (Rage is no longer with us, correct?) As I said, I don’t say that all Metal artists or listeners are freakin’ perverts. I was talking about a self-dramatizing “angry adolescent” paradigm, that, however, is more or less true for ALL metal—and from WITHIN that, you sometimes get the bullshit that produced that Scorpions record cover.

    The fact is Ianz—and this IS a fact—that if you are truly smart and self-aware and continue to mature, that you WILL grow out of metal sooner or later. It just doesn’t inform the adult situation in any way, nor is it informed BY adult questions, views, or realities. Period. It’s teenage music, in a way much more than even Punk or some other forms are.

    You wrote a good, impassioned defense, and I agree with some of it. But I think at bottom you were just missing my point. I applaud you for listening to better shit than “crap metal.” But it was really more or less crap metal I was talking about specifically—though I do still say that METAL OVERALL is informed strictly by adolescent views and needs.

  • GiantFlyingRobo

    @ianz09 (171): Yes, now get off this website before your mom sees you Saber25. If my mom caught me on here when I was 9, she’d kill me.

  • furball excel 5

    i find the cover of the album Virgin Killer to be far more offensive with The Scorpions on it.

  • Mishele

    “Origin of the Feces” is the name of a scientific article in the Journal of Irreproducible Results. The concept being that feces evolved humans to move parts of itself around.

  • ianz09

    @Randall (172): Oh no, I agree with the majority of what you had to say. I am by no means defending the Scorpions cover, it was disgusting and definitely not art. And unfortunately, much of metal is adolescent and immature. Emo-screamo (which I don’t personally qualify as metal, but know many do) is the most pure example of this whiny adolescence of which you speak. And yes, too many bands of all sub-genres stick with problems that are adolescent in nature. When you say metal is overall informed by “adolescent views and needs”, you are (unfortunately) correct. I pride myself, however, in listening to bands that can prominently stand above this stereotype. But, all of my favorite bands are also prone to immaturity. MY point was simply that not every metal band or song is adolescent, and many speak a good message, and (plenty of die-hard studs-n-chains moshers would crucify me for saying this) most bands I listen to are big softies and plead with their fans to make the world a better place. Some of it is purely talentless and a waste, but there is enough true art mixed in for me to seek it out and grasp it.

    “However, let’s be honest and admit that if you were shown the album cover “Virgin Killer” and were told the title of it, and then asked “what genre of music do you suppose that is?” most people, we all know, would almost assuredly assume it to be heavy metal.”

    Oh yes, many would assume so, and assume correctly. Metal has a (bullshit) image and (crappy) reputation to uphold, and with these comes the culture. I don’t fit into this culture at all, I am proud to say.

    “I don’t deny that there are “sub genres” within metal. No, I’d never expect System of a Down or Rage Against the Machine to have ever had a cover like the Scorpions’ “Virgin Killer.” They’re smarter and more politically-oriented acts. (Rage is no longer with us, correct?)”

    System would not degrade themselves or their image by using and promoting filth, so you are correct, they definitely wouldn’t have a cover even close to Virgin Killer. A quick correction though, not as much SOAD is political as you might think. Much of it is more of a social commentary (Toxicity, I-E-A-I-A-I-O, Vicinity of Obscenity, Chic ‘N Stu), but much is political (Boom!, Prison Song, B.Y.O.B., Deer Dance). They even stretch to religious and spiritual themes (Forest, Innervision, Science, Question!). Rage, however, is nothing but politics. And no, Rage is no longer together, not consistently, and neither is System. SOAD is on hiatus, but they may not make it back together, which truly saddens me. Look up a few interviews with Serj Tankian on his political stand points, he may impress you, despite you not liking his music :)

    “The fact is Ianz—and this IS a fact—that if you are truly smart and self-aware and continue to mature, that you WILL grow out of metal sooner or later. It just doesn’t inform the adult situation in any way, nor is it informed BY adult questions, views, or realities. Period. It’s teenage music, in a way much more than even Punk or some other forms are.”

    I agree and disagree. I believe that eventually, the sound will become less and less appealing to me, yes. But I also believe that many of the impressions and meanings and commentary will stay with me, and maybe I’ll pop back for a listen sparingly. However, I pray I never lose my taste for System of a Down. I know I sound like I am worshipping them or something, but honestly, I have pondered life and it’s mysteries more after having listened to them. The quirky music isn’t appealing to all, but they have a lot of good things to say.

    And now, last but not least, I’ll provide starting points for those who seek to agree with me and disagree. Following are the best and worst examples of my favorite bands’ music for supporting my opinion. Look up the lyrics, the best will support my opinion that they aren’t adolescent and juvenile, the worst are to show that they still have a juvenile streak like any other band. I’m doing this so I don’t sound like propoganda (hopefully though the intelligence and poetry of the best will outdo the nonsense and adolescence of the worst, as I have seen). At the risk of being undermined:

    Best: Solitaire/Unraveling, Sun Doesn’t Rise
    Worst: Chancre Sore, Simple Survival

    Best: Coming Undone, Freak on a Leash
    Worst: ADIDAS

    Best: Psychosocial, Before I Forget
    Worst: People=Shit

    Hollywood Undead
    Best: Paradise Lost, City
    Worst: No. 5, Everywhere I Go

    Linkin Park
    Best: The Little Things Give You Away, Crawling, Hands Held High
    Worst: Runaway, Given Up

    Best: Down With the Sickness, Liberate, Believe
    Worst: Overburdened

    System of a Down
    Best: The vast majority, but ATWA, Aerials, Spiders, and Dreaming stand out.
    Worst: Not much to go with. I suppose Bounce and Fuck the System could be cited, but even they have a point to make.

  • GTT

    @ames801 (168):
    @Randall (169):

    I was reading the article on CNN (can it really be called a reliable news source???) that is was in Jack Nicholson´s house. And yes, he drugged her.

    How any rational adult can leave their child alone with some unknown adult male is beyond me. And any parent who signs a form consenting to the wide publication and distribution of naked pictures of their child deserves to be arrested.

    And I´m more than a little shocked that so many people see nothing wrong with this. No, it´s not about ADULT SEXUALITY (or this crap argument about how “maybe you´re confused about your own sexuality”). It´s about CHILD SEXUALITY. Pre-pubescent children should not be sexual because they are in no way prepared to deal with the consequences of sex. They are too young to make an informed decision about what they want to do with their bodies. And no, these kids cannot give “full consent” as they have no idea what that means. Children give “consent” for a wide variety of reasons, including shame and wanting to please authority figures. A lot of kids think that adults are right and must be obeyed. How in the hell is that “fully informed consent”?

    OK, I need to get off this list because I am getting way too upset.

  • JayBe

    @ianz09 (176):

    Leave it. It’s Randall. :P
    His idea of growing up is going to church every Sunday.

  • GTT

    @JayBe (178): Give me a break… If that isnt the retort of a 14-year-old, I dont know what is. :roll:

  • ianz09

    @JayBe (178): Oh, I apologize sir. You must be mistaken, we weren’t arguing, we were calmly and civilly discussing our opposing viewpoints. ;)

  • Randall

    @JayBe (178):

    That doesn’t even make sense, moron.

  • Mark

    @ianz09 (176):

    “…Metal has a (bullshit) image and (crappy) reputation to uphold, and with these comes the culture. I don’t fit into this culture at all, I am proud to say…”

    I agree with you… to an extent. I’m a metalhead as well and I mean that in the most literal fashion possible. I listen to all styles of metal, Black, Death, Doom, Nu, Thrash, Groove, Alternative, Progressive and especially “heavy”. You name it, I listen to it.

    The image of metal *is* bad for people who don’t like metal, but for those of us who do it’s not the negative at all. I don’t think that you should be so proud of transcending the metal culture, is fitting in with the “mature” people who look down upon your favourite genre of music worth it? Seriously, I’m ok with being a metalhead. I cop flak for it, I get called an emo. But when I shrug those comments off, people realize that it isn’t inherently “bad” to like metal or be a metal fan.

    Do you think that you’re better than a “typical” metal fan?

  • Mark

    @Randall (172): You are so wrong… and I’ve been around LV long enough to realize how huge a mistake I’m making by sayint that to you Randall :D

    Metal refers to any one of at least a dozen very, *very* distinct sub-genres, most likely closer to two dozen by I finish typing this. Most bands don’t even fit within any one, or even two of these genres. Some genres aren’t even musically defined, like Nu metal. Let’s compare Slipknot to another Nu metal band… how about… Disturbed? I don’t hear a similarity there, period.

    Before you say that I’m splitting hairs and that you’re referring to what a normal non-metal listener would call “metal”, tell me what that is. I’m genuinely interested to know, because I think personally that some people would say Sabbath, some Metallica and others Slipknot.

    Metal encompasses so much, so many bands and fans. So much music and culture… It’s not fair to lump then all together. The messages delivered by metal music varies immensely. From Death metal (gruesomedeathgruesomedeathgruesomedeath) to Black metal (SATAN!!!) to Doom metal (We’re all going to die), the messages are different, and not always pessimestic or angry (Hair metal anyone?). I don’t even see the common denominator of “anger” running through *all* metal.

    “…The fact is Ianz—and this IS a fact—that if you are truly smart and self-aware and continue to mature, that you WILL grow out of metal sooner or later…”

    That’s not true, just not true… That is like saying that once you settle down and stop rocking out at parties that you’ll stop liking rock music. Does that sound true? I think that there are still a generation of aging people – my father included – that still like their Zeppelin, Purple, Queen, Floyd and Stones…

  • ianz09

    @Mark (182): “Do you think that you’re better than a “typical” metal fan?”

    Not at all, I assure you. I think I am better than what society tells me I am for being a metalhead. Mainstream music fans wouldn’t look at me and label me a metalhead, which I am proud of. Not to say I am above “typical” metalheads, but because I do not fall into their stereotype, mainstreamers (I guess I’ll call them) are surprised to see somebody they stereotyped as normal listening to such terrible music. I love it. People try and guess what I listen to. People think I am a Coldplay fan, possibly Nickelback, I’ve gotten guesses for rap before. But when I crank up Slipknot’s “Spit It Out” or System of a Down’s “Sugar”, all of their doubt is erased. I don’t fit what they want me to, which makes me an anomaly of sorts, and has made heavier music more accessible to my more mainstream friends. I think I am doing a good deed, on a small scale. This may make me sound arrogant, but I feel like I am helping to showcase other people’s art for them. Not to rag on the “emo” or “goth” kids, because plenty of my friends have been lumped as you have, and they are cool as hell. I let myself as well as those around me stand as living testaments to the fact that metal music, despite all of its negative attention and media, is as valid an art form as any other.

  • ianz09

    @Mark (182): And just for clarification I forgot to add in my previous post, the bullshit image and crappy reputation I was referring to was the image of anger and despair and the reputation of glorifying drug use and alcohol consumption. I am not, I am over the rough patch in my life from my parents’ recent divorce, and I do not drink or use drugs, as I stated earlier. You know as well as I that metal is not all about anger and fear, as you stated. But mainstream society labels everything, for the convenience of its followers, and thus follows the negative stereotypes. I think Mushroomhead said it best in “Never Let It Go”:

    “Everyone crawls to someone, some run,
    To the puppeteer and volunteer
    To become one

    Who pulls the strings
    That you are attached to?
    Who pours the gas
    That you are a match to?

    Strive for perfection,
    And Strike with precision,
    Soon it blows up in your face,
    And the smoke blurs your vision

    But now you’re fading fast,
    Maybe your time has passed,
    Bound and gagged as you’re dragged,
    To the type cast”

    You can be a zombie, a goon, or you can just be yourself, whoever that is. And yes, I learned that from metal ;)

  • Mark

    @ianz09 (184):

    “…Not to say I am above “typical” metalheads, but because I do not fall into their stereotype…”

    I understand the sentiment, but I think that you’ll find that most metal fans are quite normal people. “Alternative” (whatever the hell that means nowadays) music fans – such as “emo” – account for the majority of funny looking people out there. With the skinny jeans, the excessive piercings and frankly ridiculous haircuts. If you ask those people what they like, chances are they say MCR rather than ‘knot.

    I do live in Australia however, and I get the impression that “metal” – certain varieties anyway – is more accessable and mainstream here. Just a few personal observations.

    “…People try and guess what I listen to…”

    That doesn’t work for me either… because even if I give someone one of my bands, they usually miss the mark epically. Like if I told you that my favourite guitarist is Jimmy Page, or that I love Daft Punk, what would you assume of me? I’m guessing not exactly in line with what you already know about me. I listen to everything, but metal’s probably my all time favourite.

  • ianz09

    @Mark (186): Same here. I have a pleasant little tune on my iPod that I frequently listen to called “Side” by Travis. It is acoustic, and meaningful, and damn good. I’ll let this gem calm me down so I can take a deep breath, then I’ll relax a little more with Massive Attack’s “Teardrop”, then shake things up with Eminem before allowing Mushroomhead and Slipknot to melt off my face. I suppose metal may be a tad more accessible down under (I watched a video earlier today actually which showed an interview with SOAD after the Australian premiere of their video for Toxicity… Lots of people showed up!). The problem is that people want an image to go with the word “metalhead”, and too many metalheads don’t carry that image, while too many that carry that image AREN’T metalheads. Its simply mind-boggling to those who typecast! But as long as rock is good, I’ll listen, and I could give a damn about what people think about it.

    Jimmy Page, good taste. I’m still up in the air on my favorite drummer, but I think it is down to Joey Jordison or M-Head’s Skinny. Something about those dudes in masks…

  • Mark

    @ianz09 (187): The stereotypes are pretty ridiculous when you actually listen to metal and see the fans. Some metal is very accessible to people (ever heard of a little ditty called Smoke on the Water); which makes it all the more mind-boggiling when people actually believe the stereotypes. Look at Metallica fans, how funny do they look? Not at all, because Metallica, like Purple, aren’t “emo” like Slipknot. All because of the annoying few who feel the need to eat too much, never shower, never bother with a haircut and then wear a Slipknot shirt everywhere…

    “…Jimmy Page, good taste. I’m still up in the air on my favorite drummer, but I think it is down to Joey Jordison or M-Head’s Skinny. Something about those dudes in masks…”

    Are you a drummer? I don’t mind Joey, but I prefer John Bonham. Sure, not as quick, but he could sure groove, and his single bass-kick work was amazing o.O

  • Mrdystopian

    Not sure if they airbrushed it or not, but I was surprised to not see the cover of Nevermind from Nirvana

  • Maggot

    @Mark (188): I prefer John Bonham

    I’ll see your Bonzo and raise you a Keith Moon.

  • Mark

    @Maggot (190): I was wondering when you were going to make an entrance… Run along and listen to “Good Times Bad Times” little kiddy. Then you’ll see your precious Keith Moon’s better :P

  • Char

    First music type list i have actually enjoyed reading!! Love the controversial stuff :)

  • Chineapplepunk

    I have to agree, I don’t believe that the nude child covers were art… Naked cherub paintings are art- not semi developed girls!

  • bucslim

    Maggot – Mark – I’m all in holding a royal flush – Neil Peart.

    Read em and weep!

  • GTT

    @Mark (183):

    From Death metal (gruesomedeathgruesomedeathgruesomedeath) to Black metal (SATAN!!!) to Doom metal (We’re all going to die)

    Genuine curiosity now… You dont see the parallel between these? Death, Satan and more death? Is ita wonder that “mainstreamers” associate metal with emo? I´ll admit I´m not a metal fan. I just dont understand the noise and the screaming (I tried listening to Pantera once and I thought I was going to have to put a screwdriver through my ears…) I guess these just dont speak to me.

    Queen, Floyd and the Stones… I´ll admit, they´re awesome.

  • ianz09

    @Mark (188): Yeah, God only knows I hate stereotyping. That’s why I wanted to stand up for metal after what Randall said. We are all entitled to our opinions.

    “Are you a drummer? I don’t mind Joey, but I prefer John Bonham.”

    No, I’m not, unfortunately, but percussion is my favorite element of rack music, hence why I enjoy Slipknot. I’d love to learn drums though. You are clearly a Led Hed. But I don’t blame you. I’ll just close my eyes and get lost every time “Kashmir” or “When the Levee Breaks” comes on.

    @Maggot (190): Not a humongous The Who fan, but the classics seem to be taking over this thread :)

    @bucslim (194): I knew as soon as I said “drummer” Peart would come up. Can deny him his credit though.

    @GTT (195): “Genuine curiosity now… You dont see the parallel between these? Death, Satan and more death? ”

    These sub-genres that he named qualify for their sub-genre because of subject matter, not sound per se. He also mentioned Nu-Metal and Hair Metal, which are unique because of sound. Hair metal is basically your classic rock and roll. Gun N Roses (your favorite) are an example. They were probably more party and love song oriented, compared to today’s bands. Nu-metal is unique in that no specific sound qualifies it. Generally, it is accepted that Nu-metal bands use a DJ and other electric instruments, like synthesizers and samplers. But, Nu-metal does not encompass ONLY
    bands like this. It is the genre that says “be unique, you don’t have to sound like anybody else”. Some are typical four-piece bands, with a singer, drummer, bassist, and guitarist. Others are unconventional. Examples:

    System of a Down
    Serj Tankian- Lead vocals/rhythm guitar
    Daron Malakian- Lead guitar/backing vocals
    Shavo Odadjian- Bass
    John Dolmayan- Drums

    David Draiman- Vocals
    Dan Donegan- Guitar
    John Moyer- Bass (MOyer, not MAyer)
    Mike Wengren- Drums

    Linkin Park
    Chester Bennington- Lead vocals
    Mike Shinoda- Backing vocals/keyboard
    Mr. Hahn- DJ/Samples
    Phoenix- Bass
    Rob Bourdon- Drums
    Brad Delson- Guitar

    Slipknot (hear we go)
    Corey Taylor- Lead Vocals
    Chris Fehn- Percussion/backing vocals
    Shawn “Clown” Crahan- Percussion
    Joey Jordison- Drums
    Craig “133” Jones- Samples
    Sid Wilson- DJ
    Jim Root- Lead guitar
    Mick Thompson- rhythm guitar
    Paul Gray- Bass

    Hollywood Undead
    Charlie Scene- Vocals/guitar
    Johnny 3 Tears- Lead vocals
    Da Kurlzz- Vocals/drums
    J-Dog- Vocals/keyboard
    Funny Man- Vocals
    Deuce- Lead vocals

    Jonathan Davis- Lead vocals
    Brian “Head” Welch- former lead guitar
    Munky- Current lead guitar, former rhythm
    Fieldy- Bass
    David Silvera- former drummer
    Ray Luzier- Current drummer

    Mushroomhead (hear we go again)
    Jeffery Nothing- Lead vocals
    Waylon- Lead vocals
    Gravy- Guitar
    Pig Benis- Bass
    Shmotz- Keyboard
    ST1TCH- DJ
    Skinny- Drums

    As you can see, Nu-metal is the most ADD form of metal.

    “Queen, Floyd and the Stones… I´ll admit, they´re awesome.”

    You could be a metalhead yet, my dear :)

  • Maggot

    @Mark (191): listen to “Good Times Bad Times” little kiddy. Then you’ll see your precious Keith Moon’s better

    I’ve SEEN them both live (and Peart too), and I know what I see.

    Actually I’m just joking around (well not about having seen them), they’re all great skinsmiths. Peart has the added talent of being their primary lyricist (but a little too self-indulgent IMO). When I was in high school I was actually a huge Rush fan, until they started wimping out with too much synth. I like a more guitar-oriented sound, a la pre-2112. Alex Lifeson = “the Jimmy Page of Canada”. lol

    @GTT (195): I just dont understand the noise and the screaming

    Yeah I’m not much into that either. I have two teenage boys though, so all those bands that ianz mentioned are on regular rotation in our household. Being a headbanger from back in the day I don’t mind it too much, but I like the “cleaner” vocals…not talking about as in subject matter, but sound i.e. less distorted. I dig bands like Disturbed, Godsmack, Seather. Not into SoaD…sorry ianz. As Randall says, you kind of grow out of it, but I followed a typical progression of Brit Invasion, 70’s hard rock/metal, 80’s hair (still love it, but in a kitschy sort of way) with a sprinkling of punk, 90’s grunge. These days, when Pantera or Mushroomhead is playing, I just go into my den and put on Lawrence Welk.

  • Randall

    @Mark (183):

    “You are so wrong… and I’ve been around LV long enough to realize how huge a mistake I’m making by sayint that to you Randall :D”

    AND YET… you dared say it. One can only hope that the size of your balls outweighs your sorry lack of common sense.

    Now first of all, I don’t know how old you are Mark—are you the same Mark I’ve spoken to before on the site? We get along, don’t we? Anyway, I don’t know how old you are, but don’t presume to think you need to instruct me on the history or details of heavy metal. I was born in 1965, and was therefore that at its *birth,* if I was, shall we say, a tad challenged in the age department at the time. But being the precocious genius that I was, I had already bought my first Led Zep album at age 3 and a half, from saving up the quarters my crazy aunt Dorothy used to give me every week, after suitably pinching my cheeks and remarking on “what a good little man” I was.

    In short, I’m old enough to remember when heavy metal was the new thing on the block, so let’s skip whatever “lessons” you think you can offer me. I yawn at your knowledge, because I already possess my own… which is voluminous and frightening in its aspect.

    Okay, so I’m well-aware that there are many “sub-genres” of metal. But c’mon, let’s be HONEST. Metal is metal. Yes yes, I know all you metalheads want to believe that you love a wide-ranging, eclectic musical form. But come off it, you don’t. Not unless you want to stretch the boundaries of what metal IS. Nowadays, Zeppelin hardly sounds like “metal,” anymore than Talking Heads sounds like “punk,” but fact is metal still stems from the basic stylistic patterns laid down by bands like Zep and Black Sabbath back in the day.

    Now, that doesn’t mean that the Disturbed sound anything like Scorpions or any of the hair bands of the 80s. Of course not. Or… well…. they do all use the same basic, buzzing, loud, cranking guitar style set to a thumping, mid-tempo beat. It’s never been music you can really *dance* to. AND… it’s still basically adolescent MALE music.

    “Let’s compare Slipknot to another Nu metal band… how about… Disturbed? I don’t hear a similarity there, period.”

    Come on. Yes you do. No, not a huge one. But it’s there. They wouldn’t be “metal” otherwise.

    See, metal is a genre in a way that even “punk” isn’t. Punk IS a genre and always has been, but the essence of what *made* it a genre has changed. Originally it was just the sound of garage rock–get up on stage and play three chords that you just learned last week. Then, in time, it morphed into the loud, fast, simplistic power chording that it became… so that in time it became hard to see how Television and the Minutemen or the Circle Jerks, say, could all be considered to inhabit the same genre.

    Metal, however, remains tied to its generic roots regardless of what tangents are explored by the various artists within it, because it’s about a particular noise and a particular attitude. The noise varies, just as it varied within punk. One might THINK the attitude varies—but only to degrees.

    Let’s think of it this way. Let’s take a stupid punk band like… hmm… 999 (who still had some good songs) vs. an intelligent one like… oh, say… I don’t know, Dead Kennedys, or Black Flag maybe (is Henry Rollins really THAT smart though?) or to be safe, The Clash. A lot of difference in sound? Well…. yes and no. The Clash later went off on stylistic tangents–but keeping to their basic original vision, they were basically punky. Always were. But what about attitude? Well, the difference there is still not so much. Both 999 and the Clash were punk bands who later drifted a tad towards New Wave, but maintained that rebellious, in-your-face, anarchic pose. Except that for 999 it WAS just a pose. They were poseurs.

    Are there poseurs, then, in metal? Of course. But in both punk and metal, it really isn’t about the poseurs vs. the sincere punkers or headbangers. There’s always poseurs. But even the more intelligent metal bands—it isn’t really so much that they’re NOT poseurs—it’s simply that they’re too smart to allow the stereotype to wrap around them easily.

    BUT… the basic attitude behind the music remains the same whether you’re Quiet Riot or Rage Against the Machine. The attitude is, simply, Male Adolescent Self-Importance. Sometimes channeled through the “party-boy” image, sometimes channeled through anger. But that’s a personal preference; back in the early days of punk, you had people who wanted to go the full-out Angry Dangerous Punk thing, to LIVE that… and others who just wanted to slam dance and have a good time to loud, fast music. Same with metal… there are those who just want to bang their heads to dumb, loud music, and others who want to form an intellectual bond to the musical style because they think it has some meaning.

    But the problem is just that—rock in aggregate–regardless of WHAT it is—IS basically adolescent. The difference is that some forms, some artists, take a springboard out of the form to other things, and by escaping the limits of the adolescent frame that binds rock and roll together, they can address other things, express other thoughts and make statements that aren’t restricted solely to the way a teenager views the world.

    I’m sorry to tell you though—but facts are facts–metal does NOT do this. Metal, no matter what it is, remains rooted to the adolescent, because at heart, no adult needs that form to express his or her reality—and the form (metal) does NOT address, reflect, or in any way inform (nor is it informed BY) the experience of being an adult.

    Now, for a time, some of us don’t want to give up on our youths. God knows I don’t. I was never a big metal fan, I admit, but I liked some of it. I still get nostalgic when I hear something old on the radio. And certainly I was much more a punker when I was a kid—I was 12-13 years old RIGHT when Punk hit, so as you can imagine, it was amazing to be there, at that age, right when this new form was being born, and could speak to my then-blooming adolescence. And so to this day, I’m loathe to “give up” on Punk… I still listen to it sometimes, still like to dig out the old records or the CDs I later bought, get into some Sex Pistols or The Damned or Slaughter and the Dogs or Circle Jerks, Black Flag, etc. etc. But the music just doesn’t inform me in any way like it used to. I’m 44 and have moved on. I have a career and kids and a car payment and a house and boats, and having sex with women long, long ago lost its nice novelty (though, god willing, it will remain the greatest fun on earth for many years to come, for me). It’s not just that my tastes have changed… because really, they haven’t. It’s just that I grew up. I don’t need punk the way I used to, and it doesn’t really describe my life the way it did—though SOME of it still does get to places in my soul, even now…. because punk WASN’T ever JUST about the “adolescent,” though much of it was.

    Do you follow me at all?

    Metal is even more a problem in this sense than Punk. Punk was usually as much political and sociological as it was social and about youth angst. Metal, however, well… yes, it’s drifted into politics sometimes—but it’s still only *youth politics.* It’s the anger of the adolescent male, again—raging against the machine. It never gets to be MORE than that, and never can, because it’s severely limited. And I’m sorry to tell you, but it’s not that you STOP raging against the machine… (though some people do, of course)… it’s that you realize, in time, that raging against the machine almost always leads you to…. nowhere… except more raging.

    THAT’S the problem with metal, see—it’s circular. It goes nowhere, as a form. It just turns back on itself. Rage rage rage, noise noise noise, scream scream scream, bang head here, bang head there, Loud guitars loud guitars loud guitars… nothing. That’s it. You cannot show me a 30 year old who is married, has a career or even just a decent job, is paying for a house and a car, maybe has kids, etc… who STILL really.. REALLY… listens to metal. If he does, he’s got a serious problem with growing up.

    ““…The fact is Ianz—and this IS a fact—that if you are truly smart and self-aware and continue to mature, that you WILL grow out of metal sooner or later…”

    That’s not true, just not true…”

    No Mark, I’m sorry—but it very much IS true. And one day you’ll know it, recognize it, and realize it.

    “That is like saying that once you settle down and stop rocking out at parties that you’ll stop liking rock music.”

    No, it’s not. The analogy does not fit. We’re not talking about just liking to dance or liking a good beat here. We’re talking about a VERY–VERY–specific genre of adolescent noise that DOES NOT and CAN NOT fit the adult worldview. It’s inadequate for that purpose. Pure and simple.

    “I think that there are still a generation of aging people – my father included – that still like their Zeppelin, Purple, Queen, Floyd and Stones…”

    Think again. They “like” it yes… because they recall their youth, and we NEVER want to relinquish our youth. It’s nostalgia—looking back on what was OUR music. But that’s all it is. It isn’t informing their lives the way it used to. It doesn’t reflect their lives.

    Or—perhaps some of it does—the music that reached BEYOND those boundaries. But metal is NOT a genre that does that, and never will be.

  • Maggot

    @Randall (198): I was 12-13 years old RIGHT when Punk hit

    I’m jealous of the fact that you (I presume) grew up in NY, right in a hotbed of punk. Ramones, Richard Hell, Patti Smith, NY Dolls, etc. etc. You ever been to CBGBs? Being a West Coaster, we had our own scene albeit smaller, with the DKs and some other lesser known acts, and also some So. CA bands like the afore mentioned Black Flag and Circle Jerks regularly came thru. Our CBGB equivalent was the Mabuhay in SF, been there a few times. I was also lucky enough to have attended the Pistols’ last show ever (w/ Sid), at SF’s famed Winterland. Amazing show, I have a boot of it buried in a closet somewhere. Saw the Ramones too, and I had even gotten an album autographed by them when they did a record store promo session that day. Stupidly, I fucking GAVE IT AWAY a few years later…dumbest thing I have EVER done.

  • Randall

    @Maggot (199):

    “I’m jealous of the fact that you (I presume) grew up in NY,”

    I did.

    “…right in a hotbed of punk.”

    Indeed it was. (Along with London).

    “Ramones, Richard Hell, Patti Smith, NY Dolls, etc. etc.”


    “You ever been to CBGBs?”

    But of course. However, it was NOT back in the day—during the heyday of the original punkers–I was too young. So I kinda don’t count it. HOWEVER, I have a friend, who is about 10 years or so older than me… he was working his way through college as a NYC cab driver RIGHT at that time (yes people really did that) and gave many a ride to many a drunken, drugged, party-mad punk star of the day. He personally knew Deborah Harry, and the guys from Television, and Patti Smith, and met guys like Stiv Bators and god knows who else. Everyone from Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, for instance. It doesn’t get more awesome than that, or than Stiv Bators puking in your cab.

    “Being a West Coaster, we had our own scene albeit smaller,”

    A pale copy of ours. ;-) (ha). But I liked the west coast stuff. THE GERMS, man! Darby Crash! It’s just that California had its head so far up The Eagles’, Linda Ronstadt’s and Fleetwood Mac’s collective ass, it took until 1980 for you guys to “get it.” ;-)

    “with the DKs and some other lesser known acts,”

    Love the Dead Kennedys. Love ’em.

    “and also some So. CA bands like the afore mentioned Black Flag and Circle Jerks”

    There was another band we listened to in college… like the Circle Jerks… I’m drawing a complete blank. Getting old. Not the Butthole Surfers—they weren’t from California, were they? Somebody else. I had a friend who really into that stuff, in college. Circle Jerks… and this other band I can’t remember.

    “regularly came thru. Our CBGB equivalent was the Mabuhay in SF, been there a few times.”

    Never been to the Mabuhay, but been to SF. Love that city. Best city on the west coast. Way better than Seattle, IMO.

    “I was also lucky enough to have attended the Pistols’ last show ever (w/ Sid), at SF’s famed Winterland.”

    You LUCKY son of a bitch!!!! See, during that tour, they deliberately didn’t come to NY, because it would have been “preaching to the converted.” My mom probably wouldn’t have let me go anyway. ;-) I had to hide my Sex Pistols album from her. She probably would have thought I was turning into a hoodlum… a fancy pants gangster.

    “Amazing show, I have a boot of it buried in a closet somewhere.”

    That’s the one that ends with Johnny’s last line: “Ever had the feeling you’ve been cheated?” —that line plays an important part in my book.

    “Saw the Ramones too, and I had even gotten an album autographed by them when they did a record store promo session that day. Stupidly, I fucking GAVE IT AWAY a few years later…dumbest thing I have EVER done.”

    Yer an idiot. :-)

    Ah, what memories, though, man.

  • Ant-LOX

    The Holy Wood Album cover is one of my favorites.

    It’s actually a tarot card (The others are in the booklet) It simply represents being crucified in space.

    That’s why he’s floating.

  • Maggot

    @Randall (200): I have a friend…a NYC cab driver RIGHT at that time…Stiv Bators puking in your cab

    Lol! The not-so-subtle wordplay of “Mr. Bators” always cracked me up. I love the Dead Boys. Speaking of which, G&R covered one of their songs (Aint it Fun) and didn’t do it justice. Well the opening guitar riff by Slash is cool but it’s not the same as Cheetah!

    There was another band we listened to in college… like the Circle Jerks

    Bad Religion?

    That’s the one that ends with Johnny’s last line: “Ever had the feeling you’ve been cheated?”

    Yeah it did, though it kind of escaped me at the time until I read about it later. My most vivid memory is seeing this continuous hail of what can best be described as “honking loogies” and lord knows what else hurling UP from the crowd and onto the taunting, bare-shirted Sid. I wasn’t down in that mosh pit, fortunately. My buddies and I were more interested in checking out the various body piercings on the scantily clad chicks roaming about.

    that line plays an important part in my book.

    At the risk of sounding like a suck-up, I would be interested in reading it if/when it is published. I will be expecting an autographed copy, btw. ;-)

    Yer an idiot.

    Argh, I know…

  • Samsung

    @ianz09 (196): I´m in complete agreement about SOAD. They´re a ridiculously good band and to be honest pretty much the only Metal band I haven´t grown out of. Although there are others I still listen to from time to time. earlier this year I had the pleasure of seeing Serj Tankian perform live with the Auckland Philharmonic Orchestra. It was breathtakingly good.

    @Randall (200): Just out of interest, what kind of music do you listen to at this stage in your life?

  • ianz09

    @Maggot (199): @Randall (200): Sheesh, you guys are OOZING nostalgia! I’ll bet you guys will have listened to a couple of you old favorites by the time you read this.

    @Samsung (203): Serj is so versatile. He writes opera, orchestral pieces, he’s been featured on a rap song even! (Hed PE’s “Feel Good”, which should appeal equally to metal and rap fans). He wrote nearly every instrument on Elect the Dead. All this on top of his work with System, on top of his political activism. He is one of my role models for sure. What I wouldn’t do to be able to sit down and have a conversation with him. I’ll bet the Philharmonic Orchestra was breathtaking, I haven’t had the pleasure of seeing him or SOAD. Disappointing to no end.

  • ianz09

    @Maggot (197): I have two teenage boys though, so all those bands that ianz mentioned are on regular rotation in our household.

    Maggot, I sure hope I don’t offend you when I say this… You are quite a bit older than I had thought you were. I mean that with respect lol

    Not into SoaD…sorry ianz.

    Eh, can’t get ’em all.

  • Randall

    @Samsung (203):

    The list of bands and artists would be too numerous to mention. My tastes are broad and eclectic.

    I still listen to a lot of the old stuff, of course.

    So…. let’s see…

    Old Blues, from the 20s-60s.
    R&B from 50s and 60s
    Soul from 60s
    Lounge – both original stuff and the revival stuff of recent years.
    World Beat – various countries and traditions
    Bebel Gilberto is a fave right now.
    The old punk stuff sometimes still.
    Some of the old new wave, the weirdest stuff.
    80s underground and college music still… some of it.
    Old REM and other jangle pop
    some jazz—mainly the old stuff.
    Lots of classical… way too numerous to go into.. but focused mainly on old, old Renaissance period music to Baroque… and then 20th century stuff.
    Some folk, the older, weirder stuff
    Celtic–the more traditional stuff, not the pop crap.
    Still listen to a lot of the alternative rock stuff from the 90s as well… I got sick of it but now it’s been a while since I’ve heard it, so I’m back to listening to some of it.
    60s pop.
    Brit 90s/2000s pop and twee pop.

    I’m sure I’m forgetting half a dozen other genres/styles, but that’s what comes off the top of my head right now.

    Heaviest rotation for me at the moment is The Decemberists, Belle & Sebastian, Jacques Brel, and as it happens the “No Thanks!” box set of original 70s punk.

  • ianz09

    @Randall (206): Seems you aren’t so much for the modern as much as the older stuff. Course, I don’t blame you, it’s hard to find much that is any good under the weight of all the emo-screamo, pop princesses, and ringtone rap.

    And now for something completely different.

    If you play a country song backwards, you get back your truck, you house, your lady, and your dog.

  • Randall

    @ianz09 (207):

    Well, not quite. Most of the international stuff I listen to is very current. And I listen to a lot of current British stuff. And underground/indie/alternative stuff in general.

    Decemberists, Shins, Boat, Bird & the Bee, Camera Obscura, Apples in Stereo, Superchunk/Portastatic, Combustible Edison, Spoon, Pavement, Guided By Voices, Portishead, Interpol… I don’t know, I could go on and on.

  • Maggot

    @ianz09 (205): You are quite a bit older than I had thought you were.

    I am one of those people that, as Randall suggests, is freaking out about my youth slipping away. So I regularly parade around the house in my studded leathers (patterned after the bass player in Spinal Tap, who in turn is based on Saxxon). My fists/fingers are still in a permanent “devil’s horns” formation, which makes it a bit difficult when I am trying to pass the mashed potatoes at the dinner table. Anyway, I wouldn’t look so bad if it wasn’t for my comb-over…

  • ianz09

    @Maggot (209): Hooray awkward visuals!

  • ianz09

    @Randall (208): Well, I in that case, you aren’t one for modern American music is what I gathered. I have heard of the Decemberists and Interpol

  • Samsung

    @Randall (206): I´m sure you´re fully aware of this but you´re awesome. From that summary I´d say we´ve got fairly similar tastes in music although I´m particularly fond of 20s-60s blues and Portishead. I´d like to think that one day my music collection will be as extensive as yours must be.

  • Mark

    @bucslim (194): Damn… You win this one… :D

  • Mark

    @GTT (195): Of course there are similarities and overlaps; there’s a reason that it’s all called “metal”. The differences are also huge, a quick example would be Doom metal. Most Doom you’ll find isn’t much heavier than Into the Void – my favourite Sabbath song – whereas something like DM is… well… a lot heavier.

  • Mark

    @ianz09 (196): “…I’ll just close my eyes and get lost every time “Kashmir” or “When the Levee Breaks” comes on…”

    Who doesn’t?

    Learning metal drumming would be a hell of a job, good luck if you ever actually try. The guitar’s probably as hard, but at least it’s not as physically taxing.

  • Mark

    @Maggot (197): “…Alex Lifeson = “the Jimmy Page of Canada”. lol…”

    … :(

  • Mark

    @Randall (198): Wow.. this is going to be some work. You don’t think that you could have used some of the self-important verbosity on someone else? Maybe just shared it around a little?

    “…AND YET… you dared say it. One can only hope that the size of your balls outweighs your sorry lack of common sense…”

    You’re not nearly as intimidating as you think you are, and yes, your reputation does precede you. I’ve never been one for relying on reputation alone however.

    “…Now first of all, I don’t know how old you are Mark—are you the same Mark I’ve spoken to before on the site? We get along, don’t we?…”

    Nor do you need to. I am the same Mark, which means that you probably do already know my age. We got along because we were tearing apart a right-wing nutcase simultaneously, always fun.

    “…In short, I’m old enough to remember when heavy metal was the new thing on the block, so let’s skip whatever “lessons” you think you can offer me…”

    Could you tell me which genres are commonly referred to as “extreme metal” and which can be? The originator/s of Black Metal? How about Death Metal? The first Stoner/Doom metal band? The first Doom metal song? Maybe you shouldn’t assume your omniscience so quickly…

    “…Okay, so I’m well-aware that there are many “sub-genres” of metal. But c’mon, let’s be HONEST. Metal is metal. Yes yes, I know all you metalheads want to believe that you love a wide-ranging, eclectic musical form. But come off it, you don’t. Not unless you want to stretch the boundaries of what metal IS. Nowadays, Zeppelin hardly sounds like “metal,” anymore than Talking Heads sounds like “punk,” but fact is metal still stems from the basic stylistic patterns laid down by bands like Zep and Black Sabbath back in the day…”

    Metal is extremely diverse. I’m a blues guitarist, I was formally trained as a lead player in good old blues style. That’s why I like Zeppelin and Sabbath, because they’re basically heavy blues songs. To trace any form of music known as “metal” today back to Sabbath is an arduous task. Trying to do so back to Zeppelin will send you insane. There’s no blues in metal anymore, which is what those bands primarily were, blues bands.

    “…Now, that doesn’t mean that the Disturbed sound anything like Scorpions or any of the hair bands of the 80s. Of course not. Or… well…. they do all use the same basic, buzzing, loud, cranking guitar style set to a thumping, mid-tempo beat. It’s never been music you can really *dance* to. AND… it’s still basically adolescent MALE music…”

    Doom metal is much slower, Death metal has extremely aggressive guitar. So does Black metal, but played much higher. Black metal uses ambience whereas Death metal will never, literally never, even touch ivory. Heck, guitar isn’t even the lead instrument in some BM… Metal *is* diverse. Just because it’s not mainstream enough and therefore not well-known enough to be common knowledge, it doesn’t mean that very distinct subgenres don’t exist.

    This new metalcore stuff – which I don’t like all that much – is a fusion of metal (presumably NWOBHM and Thrash influences) and hardcore, which comes from your favourite, punk. Still metal? Probably, and the difference is huge. The breakdown is now god, guitar solos only when you can do “cool” (I hate them) harmony solos with twin guitars. Because of the punk influences this stuff has a very distinct sound.

    “…Come on. Yes you do. No, not a huge one. But it’s there. They wouldn’t be “metal” otherwise…”

    Good point, but I also hear the similarity between Nirvana and Avenged Sevenfold. A similarity doesn’t mean much…

    “…See, metal is a genre in a way that even “punk” isn’t…”

    For such a genius… you really can’t comprehend it, can you? Listen to a Cannibal Corpse song, on tube or however you prefer,. Then try some Burzum, or preferrably Mayhem (Freezing Moon would be best). Then try some Electric Wizard (Return Trip if you can).

    One will have low, guttural vocals, another higher pitched “gurgles” or screeching, the last will have clean singing to yelling (like Cobain). Tell me which is which. Then listen again and think about the guitar, one is sharp and aggressive as hell, but still low. Another is high-pitched and more melodic in parts. The last will be very, very fuzzy nigh-indistinguishable from the bass guitar. The drums? One will have a constant double-kick, another will use it sparingly (or more correctly, very rapidly for a period, but only stop-start apart from that) and the last won’t even go near a second pedal. The bass in one will be practically inaudable, in another it will be an important instrument for sections of the songs, and almost non-existant in others and in the last it’s as important as the guitar.

    I’m not exaggerating the differences, just have a listen and you should realize that. They’re distinct and very different forms of music, despite what you might want to believe about them. You have to go all the way back to Sabbath to find a common influence.

    “…Metal, however, remains tied to its generic roots regardless of what tangents are explored by the various artists within it, because it’s about a particular noise and a particular attitude…”

    Not since… Sabbath… And even they differed markedly from someone else who *was* considered “metal” like Zeppelin or Purple. All distinct musical sounds with different lyrical concepts… Yet all metal. Cool, huh?

    “…The noise varies, just as it varied within punk. One might THINK the attitude varies—but only to degrees…”

    Look at me, I have big hair and sing about girls and partying (I think, I never got into Hair metal). No, look at me, I talk about brutally murdering, raping and eating people. What about me, I talk about the bleakness of a global apocalypse ending all human life on Earth. Well… I talk about Satan and preach anti-Christianity…

    “…The attitude is, simply, Male Adolescent Self-Importance…”

    Yes… post-apocalyptia is great fun for a teenaged boy. I mean, come on, *all* of these musicians are teenagers, at least at heart. Especially Helmet, they’re a bunch of moronic… 40-odd year olds…

    “…I’m 44 and have moved on. I have a career and kids and a car payment and a house and boats, and having sex with women long, long ago lost its nice novelty (though, god willing, it will remain the greatest fun on earth for many years to come, for me)…”

    My father is similar, only a little older, and only a little. But he still loves his Mott the Hoople. Bowie and Hunter. And I mean loves it. He listens to that stuff almost as much as I listen to my music. So excuse me if I don’t believe you when you try and tell me that growing up necessitates growing out of your music, because that is crap.

    “…I’m sorry to tell you though—but facts are facts–metal does NOT do this. Metal, no matter what it is, remains rooted to the adolescent, because at heart, no adult needs that form to express his or her reality—and the form (metal) does NOT address, reflect, or in any way inform (nor is it informed BY) the experience of being an adult…”

    You accuse metal of being adolescent with a “fuck the machine” mentality… That’s very hipocritical. Punk was always a younger generation rebelling against what it didn’t like about an older one. Punk *is* anti-conformity, and you call metal “adolescent”? I love it Randall… the self-importance. The pre-made conceptions and ideas. What you think is right and what I think is wrong… Except that that isn’t true this time.

  • atlantis


    Cool list…

    I once did see a album cover with a paint on it…

    a landscape with in distance a tree.. but it also looked
    as spreaded legs with female pubes…

    I don’t know the name of the band / or album…

    Maybe someone here knows it to ???

    ( sorry for my bad English, I am from The Netherlands )

    Regards: Atlantis

  • atlantis

    Her is a sample for the above message of a paint i created how the cover looked like

    regards: Atlantis

  • Polymath

    That Bonus Roxy Music one. The woman on the right looks like a guy..Just sayin’

  • Bobbo

    So what’s the prob? It’s like Pink Floyd are allowed to say “bullshit” on the radio yet Everlast can’t say “whore” I just don’t get it, great list I had forgotten about the Beatles album.

  • Arnett

    Whitehouse’s first power electronics album “Erector” was banned because of the images of…. well an erection painted by Steven Stapleton of nurse with wound. But that album sucks compared to their other stuff so I really don’t care. I love that David Bowie album.

  • moshmonster

    Didn’t Cannibal Corpse have some album covers that were banned? I believe the one for Tomb of the Mutilated was.

  • chad

    Don’t forget Kid Loco – Jesus life for children under 12 inches

  • die livingston pud choker!!

    Just the fact that the son of a record label owner got that crate of Beatle’s records is infuriating.
    But the fact that some limey ass licking cocksmoker actually named that batch of records the “livingston batch” makes me feel downright murderous!
    Fuck a livingston and whatever limey faggot named that crate of vinyl. Fuck off and die, scumbag!

    Oh, great read, btw, some pretty good observations and covers. Besides the pedo type ones. But that’s not your fault, it’s the artists fault.

  • John Ross Harvey

    Indelibly Stamped by Supertramp surprisingly off the list with tatooed female breasts. I expected it on. Never knew about butcher baby (who was the loser that thought that one up?).

  • Paul

    Regarding Blind Faith and Virgin Killer, I find it strange that nude children=child pornography to so many people. Remember the depiction of winged nude cupids in centuries old paintings hanging in very conservative art galeries/museums. What is the difference here? I agree that I find the images initially shocking and uncomfortable, but if I take time to think about the non-sexual nudity of the images I can understand that it is our mega-hysterical cultures fears that makes these unattractive images so terrifying.

  • Reverend Loveshade

    The Blind Faith and Virgin Killer covers are evil and should be burned! The naked bodies of children are inherently sexual, and fill men with uncontrollable urges of insane lust. Atheists would tell you they are a natural part of evolution, but true fundamentalist Christians know that the bodies of children were made by Satan to lure men into the depths of depravity and hell. Anyone who thinks that the bodies of naked children are beautiful and express the glory of God’s creation are deceived by Satan. God bless the children; just don’t let us see them!

  • katerinaelaena

    I don’t think some of these can be excused as “artistic representations” or “personal expression”. They are simply twisted and highly innapropriate.

    Just my two cents worth..

  • aristotleltotsira

    …great list…it seems mark is still in ‘i know better than you’ mode in almost any topic…lastog.

  • Will Trame

    The Scorpions were notorious for banned album covers. In addition to “Virgin Killer”, “Lovedrive” and I believe even “Love At First Sting” had their covers altered. It’s hard to imagine, but back in the 1960s toilet imagery on record jackets drew some criticism and censure as well…notable examples being the Mamas and the Papas’ “If You can Believe Your Eyes and Ears” (which was doctored up twice) and the Rolling Stones’ “Beggars Banquet”. Another grotesque example of tasteless art was the cover of Birth Control’s “Operation” album. Additionally, I loved the covers on Roxy Music’s first five or six albums as they depicted beautiful women, but “Country Life” did kind of step over the line. As did UFO’s “Force It”.

  • fendabenda

    gotta say, I love the conversation betwixt (sic) ianz09, Mark, Kendall and Maggot. Deep. :)

  • fendabenda

    I meant Randall, sorry

  • Random Ralph

    @Reverend Loveshade [228]: Um, you aren’t serious, are you>

  • Monseigneur Verrue

    What about the Mayhem's cover with the real dead corpse of their vocalist Dead(Pelle Yngve Ohlin)?

  • Nack

    Marylin Manson had two banned covers. Holy Wood, but also Mechanical Animals. It came covered in a black sleeve across the front. Some did not approve of Manson's seemingly nude "feminine" physique.

  • Daridav

    Very interesting list! I love this site so it's about time I commented!

    It's not just cover art that gets censored by private companies either; punk band, Crass had a whole song that the workers at the factory, where they pressed the records, refused to press it!

    From Wikipedia:
    Crass' first release was The Feeding Of The 5000, an 18 track 12" 45 rpm EP on the Small Wonder label in 1978. Workers at the pressing plant initially refused to handle it due to the allegedly blasphemous content of the song "Reality Asylum". The record was eventually released with this track removed and replaced by two minutes of silence, ironically titled "The Sound Of Free Speech". (

    It's not really a song, more of a spoken word over noise. There's a youtube of the track with the words here but be warned, it has VERY strong anti-christian views and strong language – probably NSFW.

  • Alicia182

    The Distillers Coral Fang record had a pretty controversial cover.

  • sevendarkdays

    Wait, you showed a man spreading his anus but you had to link to naked girls?

  • Krazy Dave

    That’s All? I thought i was gonna see some blood and gore…hey try any Cannibal Corpse album not to mention the infamous Butchered At Birth Which was banned in 5 states for 3 years upon release

  • Krazy Dave

    Her Try This Album If U Really Wanna See An Offensive Album cover…
    Now There’s A Banned Cover 4 ya!!!!!!!

  • Wow…..that Scorpions cover is quite a shock. I’m not sure how to feel about the fact that it’s widely available online and that it’s considered to be an issue of censorship rather than common decency.

    What do you think about Wikipedia’s position?

    I definitely agree with The Beatles at Number 1. Hahahaha……that was funny.

    I was thinking, “I wonder if…?” before scrolling all the way down. :-) Last time I saw a copy of that record in the flesh (no pun intended) a little over ten years ago, it went for $650 at a collector’s fair. I’ll have to take a look at eBay later.

    Slayer’s cover for “God Hates Us All” easily fits in.

    I’m suprised that Ozzy Osbourne’s cover for “Speak Of The Devil” wasn’t banned. That scared the fuck out of me seeing that as a young boy. I read that the conservative retailers had copies which featured a sticker covering up his mouth.

    You could also add Lynyrd Skynyrd’s “Street Survivors” to the list, though it really doesn’t make sense without the backstory.

  • El Kinta

    No Cannibal Corpse covers? Make this a top 15 list and add some… muhahahaha

  • -P-

    Wish Ceasar could have fed ALL of the Christians to the Lions…….



  • ewunwreunvwrev

    You might want to add Slayer…. Christ Illusion (2006)….

  • Not considered to be controversial, I would love to know the value of Lynyrd Skynyrd’s “original “Street Survivors” Album (1977). The original is a simple cover of the band members standing to have their photograph taken together. In front of them is a superimposed picture of a fire. When the tragic plane crash occurred in 1977 when Singer, Ronnie Van Zandt ; Guitarist, Steven Gaines ; and Gaines’ sister Cassie we’re killed, the production of the original album cover was changed to NOT have the flames of fire in front of them. I am wondering what the value of it in near mint condition would be ??

  • tyla

    what bout rammsteins herzeleid lots of controversy surrounding that

  • Speaking of The Scorpions, how about their album cover for “Animal Magnetism”

  • jake

    Pretty good list except one thing missing. Voted the most controversial album cover of all time many times, Mayhem The Dawn of the Black Hearts. The album cover features a picture of the lead singer at the time, named Dead ironically, with both his wrists slit and his brains blown out with a shotgun. And the picture is real its the singers real suicide photo taken by the bands founder and lead guitarists Euryonomus.

  • Keefycub

    Who banned them?

  • james payne

    There are a couple that were never changed by the band choking victim the two cds are called “no gods/no mangers” and the way more controversial “shoot the kids at school” check them out on Wikipedia if you want to see them one of my favorite bands btw

  • peter8172

    Take a look at the album cover of the first album by the Heavy Metal Band WASP

  • peter8172

    I’m observing a lot of posts for the cover for The Blind Faith album with the prepubescent girl holding on to the toy airplane. But take a look at the cover of the album “Houses Of The Holy” by Led Zeppelin. That should be beyond controversial in my opinion…….

  • johnbgood52

    Five pages of comments and only one mention of ‘Houses of the Holy.’ I’d have thought the “Decency Brigade” would have been all over that one.

  • Cole

    I remember seeing that picture in #4 from the movie ‘Vaniila Sky at the end with all the flashes of pictures’

  • GoodGilbert

    @Reverend Loveshade You’re ranting against the young naked girls on Blind Faith and Virgin Killer, but you have a picture of an underaged naked PREGNANT girl on the cover of Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The Tales of Shamlicht? Just what kind of a hypocrit are you?

  • petet2112

    Though its not deemed as a banned controversial album, The album “Disraeli Gears” by Cream has a very humorous tiny picture. (I can’t remember which side of the album jacket it was on). The album is basically a collage of different pictures. And the one that I am referring to is the picture of Eric Clapton standing with a smile on his face and in his left hand he is holding a syringe (most likely Heroin) and injecting the syringe into Superman’s right arm. I still laugh about it even today.

  • Jo Mama

    Rev. Loveshade is not a hypocrit he’s a Discordian. And the cover model is not a photo of a nude jailbait girl its a painting. Get yourself a pair of glasses, Gilbert!

  • adam rebelius

    Honorable mentions to this list that I can think of off the top of my head would be the picture disc version of the German movie soundtrack “Schulmadchen Report”, Tones on Tails, “Pop”, The Angry Samoans, “Inside My Brain” Big Black, “Headache” The Scorpions, “Lovedrive” and the two albums by Witchfinder General. (I forgot the name of the second album, but the first one was called “Death Penalty”) On the other hand, the only band/album that I have listed here that was recalled and repackaged would be “Lovedrive” by The Scorpions. The rest, I don’t believe were recalled or repackaged. Also it should be noted that the BRITISH cover for Jimi Hendrix’s “Electric Ladyland” was too shocking for the American market, and instead, they used the picture that was used for the British version of “Are You Experienced?” for the U.S. version.

  • Anthony

    What about the first Moby Grape album with the “finger” cover?

  • Nigel Tufnel

    what about smell the glove?