[WARNING: this list contains images that may offend] This is a list of secret projects that have since been found to be true in light of released (either officially, or unofficially) documents. Some have long been the source of conspiracy theories while others have been accepted by the mainstream as real. In no particular order:
Sir Winston Churchill, Britain’s wartime Prime Minister, planned to execute Adolf Hitler in the electric chair if the Nazi leader fell into Allied hands.
Declassified documents reveal that Churchill was opposed to Allied plans for war crimes trials and wanted summarily to execute leading Nazi figures including Hitler who he regarded as “the mainspring of evil” and a “gangster”, and was also content to see Indian independence leader Mahatma Gandhi starve to death during a hunger strike in 1943.
They also show that he was willing, against the advice of his Cabinet colleagues, to “wipe out” defenceless German villages in retaliation for Nazi atrocities in Czechoslovakia.
Churchill’s choice of the electric chair was despite the fact that it was never used in Britain before the final abolition of the death penalty in 1965. source.
According to secret and long-hidden documents, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government – a fake terrorist attack on citizens.
Code named Operation Northwoods, the plan, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.
One idea seriously considered involved the launch of John Glenn, the first American to orbit the earth. On February 20, 1962, Glenn was to lift off from Cape Canaveral, Florida, on his historic journey. The flight was to carry the banner of America’s virtues of truth, freedom, and democracy into orbit high over the planet. But Lemnitzer and his Chiefs had a different idea. They proposed to Lansdale that, should the rocket explode and kill Glenn, “the objective is to provide irrevocable proof that the fault lies with the Communists et al Cuba. PDF file showing the original documents.
US documents declassified in the 1970′s show that General Giovanni de Lorenzo, the chief of Sifar (Italian Military Intelligence), joined the US in the 1950′s in preparing a plan against a Communist takeover, but did not inform his own government. According to a document released by Mr Andreotti the CIA and Sifar sketched a plan in November 1956, codenamed Gladio, to form a force of 1000 men capable of guerilla warfare and espionage. A training base was set-up in Sardinia and 139 weapons and ammunition dumps were hidden in Northern Italy.
Gladio was controlled by NATO’s Clandestine Planning Committee; attached to Supreme Headquarters of the Allied Powers in Europe. It was appropriate that the documentaries should be made by the BBC, since Britain’s MI6 and SAS were key movers and trainers, along with the CIA, in the Gladio operation.
In 1990 the Italian secret army was exposed by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti to the Italian Senate, whereupon the press spoke of “The best kept, and most damaging, political-military secret since World War II”.
“On the morning of August 2, 1980, a massive bomb exploded in the waiting room of the central train station in Bologna, killing 81 people and injuring 200 others. General Santorito, the chief of Italy’s military intelligence agency, SISMI testified in the wake of the bombing that it had been planned by the British-Swiss-American ‘Montecarlo Comite’ based in Monaco.”
Google has unfortunatley removed the first two episodes of a three part documentary on Operation Gladio. Part three is shown above.
The My Lai Massacre was the mass murder of 347 to 504 unarmed citizens of the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam). They were almost entirely civilians, the majority of them women and children. The massacre was conducted by U.S. Army forces on March 16, 1968. Before being killed some of the victims were raped and sexually molested, beaten, tortured, or maimed. Some of the dead bodies were also mutilated.
Six months later, Tom Glen, a 21-year-old soldier of the 11th Light Infantry Brigade, wrote a letter to General Creighton Abrams, the new overall commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam, accusing the Americal Division (and other entire units of the U.S. military) of routine and pervasive brutality against Vietnamese civilians. The letter was detailed and its contents echoed complaints received from other soldiers.
Colin Powell, then a 31-year-old Army Major, was charged with investigating the letter, which did not specifically reference My Lai (Glen had limited knowledge of the events there). In his report Powell wrote: “In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent.” Powell’s handling of the assignment was later characterized by some observers as “whitewashing” the atrocities of My Lai. In May 2004, Powell, then United States Secretary of State, told CNN’s Larry King, “I mean, I was in a unit that was responsible for My Lai. I got there after My Lai happened. So, in war, these sorts of horrible things happen every now and again, but they are still to be deplored.” further info from the BBC in 1988.
Beginning in mid July 2003, according to federal court records, Bush administration officials, including Richard Armitage, Karl Rove, and Lewis Libby, discussed with various reporters the employment of a then-classified, covert, CIA officer, Valerie E. Wilson (also known as Valerie Plame).
On September 16, 2003, the CIA sent a letter to the US Department of Justice asserting that Plame’s status as a CIA undercover operative was classified information and requested a federal investigation. Attorney General John Ashcroft referred the matter to the U.S. Department of Justice Office of Special Counsel, directed by Patrick Fitzgerald, who convened a grand jury. The “CIA leak” grand jury investigation did not result in the indictment or conviction of anyone for any crime in connection with the leak itself. However, I. Lewis Libby, Chief of Staff of Vice President Dick Cheney was indicted on five counts of obstruction of justice, perjury, and false statements to the grand jury and federal investigators on October 28, 2005; Libby resigned hours after the indictment.
Convinced that German scientists could help America’s postwar efforts, President Harry Truman agreed in September 1946 to authorize “Project Paperclip,” a program to bring selected German scientists to work on America’s behalf during the “Cold War”.
The highest proflie of these scientist was Wernher Von Braun the man who masterminded the Moon shots, and a member of numerous Nazi organisations, he also held rank in the SS. His initial intelligence file described him as “a security risk”. The US operation saw von Braun and more than 700 others spirited out of Germany from under the noses of the US’s allies. Interesting side piece: do some snooping and find out what and who links Werner von Braun and L. Ron Hubbard.
The Dunblane killer Thomas Hamilton might have been stripped of his firearms licence had prosecutors heeded police reports about his worrying behaviour towards children, according to secret files.
These include claims that police were tipped off that Hamilton was armed and en route to Dunblane Primary School, that he was a Freemason and received favours from Masons in the police allowing him to avoid prosecution, and that he was part of a paedophile ring that included members of the security forces. Lord Cullen on completing the public inquiry into the murders of 16 children and their teacher, ordered the documents in the case sealed for an extraordinary 100 years. Even the major media in Scotland thought this smelled funny. What was being hidden?
The report banned under the 100-year rule was com piled by Paul Hughes, then a detective sergeant with Central Scotland police, and concerns Thomas Hamilton’s activities at a summer camp in Loch Lomond in 1991, five years before the shootings. Selected extracts published during the Cullen inquiry revealed that it recommended Hamilton should be prosecuted for his activities at the summer camp and that he should have his gun licence revoked. The report, however, was ignored.
In October 2004, former conservative party chairman Lord Tebbit added his voice to the growing outrage at this decision, and in October 2005 half of the files were opened. Press reports suggested that the papers showed Hamilton be a paranoid obsessive, much given to writing letters of complaint to all and sundry; a paedophile ring has not been found.
On June the 8th 1967, during the six day war, Israel deliberately attacked the intelligence collection ship USS Liberty, in full awareness it was a U.S. Navy ship, and did its best to sink it and leave no survivors. The attack killed 34 U.S. servicemen and wounded at least 173.
Scores of intelligence analysts and senior officials have known this for years. That virtually all of them have kept a 40-year frightened silence is testament to the widespread fear of touching this live wire. According to NSA documents – classified top secret – some senior officials in Washington wanted above all, to protect Israel from embarrassment.
this video gives a brief overview of the incident along with a few others of note. Supporting Documents.
Classified documents obtained by a group of former workers at Thule, an Arctic air and radar base built by the United States in 1951-52, suggest that one of four hydrogen bombs on a B-52 bomber that crashed there in 1968 was never found, the daily Jyllands-Posten said “Detective work by a group of former Thule workers indicates that an unexploded nuclear bomb probably still lies on the seabed off Thule”, the mass-circulation daily said.
The crash, on January 21, 1968 led to a crisis in relations between the United States and NATO ally Denmark, which is responsible for Greenland’s foreign, security and defense policy and at the time prohibited nuclear weapons on its territory, including Greenland. Denmark was never informed about the lost bomb, which has serial number 78252, the paper said.
A U.S. state department document dated August 31, 1968 said all weapons onboard the crashed aircraft had been accounted for but did not spell out whether they had been recovered. The United States assured the Danish government in spring 1968 that clean-up work after the B-52 crash had been completed and gave up searching for the lost bomb in August that year.
Home to a ballistic missile early-warning radar station, Thule sits at the midpoint of a chain of similar sites between Alaska and the British Isles — a line along which the United States may build a shield against missiles from what it calls states of concern such as North Korea, Iraq, Iran and Libya.
In October 2007 the vatican published secret documents about the trial of the Knights Templar, including a parchment – long ignored because of a vague catalog entry in 1628 – showing that Pope Clement V initially absolved the medieval order of heresy. The Vatican work reproduces the entire documentation of the papal hearings convened after King Philip IV of France arrested and tortured Templar leaders in 1307 on charges of heresy and immorality.
According to the Vatican archives website, the parchment shows that Clement initially absolved the Templar leaders of heresy, though he did find them guilty of immorality, and that he planned to reform the order. However, pressured by King Philip (who threatened schism), Clement later reversed his decision and suppressed the order in 1312. Jacques de Molay, grand master of the Templars, was burned at the stake in 1314 along with his aides.
Contributor: Tamala
Quite frankly an amazing list, truely fascinating. Very nice job.
When I read the part about Operation Northwoods, I couldn't help but thinking that, in a few years, there might be a similar list that would include "the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government" : 9/11.
Truth.
Wow. I bet the families of the 3000 victims of Muslim Terrorist murderers appreciate your spitting on their graves you moron
how do you know it wasnt a Government plan?
you dont thats why so shut up you tool
It’s easy to see that it wasn’t a government plan, it was successful executed!
Actually, a lot of those families also believe it was an inside job.
If you’d actually do a little thinking, you’d know it wasn’t. You obviously haven’t done the slightest bit of research into the subject.
9/11 was an inside job.
9/11 was an inside job.
9/11 was an inside job.
9/11 was an inside job.
9/11 was an inside job.
9/11 was an inside job.
I never thought I would ever consider Cheney more stupid than Bush, but it just happened!
Riley:
You're naive if you think there's ANY government currently extant that doesn't lie to its citizens.
In the US we still stand a better chance of extracting information from our government than in many other nations–at least as long as we have a citizenry that actively believes in its freedoms and dignity, and a media which remembers that its job is to find the truth. (admittedly the latter has suffered over the last few years).
good luck with that though, imagine if these things we know are declassified material and occurred a long time ago, what actually goes on today will most probably be 100 times worse and a forever mystery!
Wow this list is awesome. I remember we studied the My Lai massacre at school, so sad. I can tell the comments for this list will be dominated by conspiracy theories.
good ‘un, tamala
Great list! More!
Wow. I am overawed by the power of information and also by the human tendency to forget.
If the My Lai incident could have been openly confirmed and investigated back then, we could have done something about it. And now that its disclosed, is anyone going to do anything about it? Just goes to show, out of sight, out of mind. What a short term memory we have, shame on us.
I can imagine 30 years from now, my grandkids telling me that CIA has just declassified some evidence that shows Bush and Osama were best of friends who got together to play Cops and Robbers. The robber would go hide in oil rich countries and the cop would come looking and use “whatever means necessary” to “capture” the bad guy and in the process partake of any valuable natural resources that just “happened” to be there…
Ugh!
Mojorisen thanks for your comment, its a good opportunity to remember that those officials who attempt to cover-up, deny, misinform, misderect the public and create myths on these matters, they are the REAL conspiracy theorists.
Great list! I just can’t help think now, “What ELSE might be going on…”
9/11 was an inside job.
incredible fascinating list:) a delight to read.
though northwood should have been lower on number, or were they random?
9/11 : Operation Northwood of the 21st Century. With Bush incharge is it too hard to believe!
yes you are right at this point because the killing of innoxcent citizens is too hard to think of it
Cheney in charge, you mean…
It’s astounding to think that a lot of these things have happened and the general public is still unaware of them.
It’s sad, for as much as we “study” our history and “study” our country, we only absorb the bright. The bitter tends to get left out of the equation.
Great list though.
Churchill is still a bad ass…
Churchill was a scumbag
Awesome list.
It’s really sad to think that if people were more aware of how their governments have lied and covered up great secrets in the past, they would be more aware of how they are doing the same today.
Great list Tamala! Really interesting to read, and very well written I think.
I can’t beleive they even contemplated blowing up John Glenn’s rocket. It would have put back space travel by decades.
This is one of the best lists ever to appear on List Universe. Wonderful job, Tamala.
Readers should note: the “Thule bomb” isn’t the only atomic weapon that the US has “misplaced” over the years. Mother Jones published a list of these several years ago (reprinted in The Book of Lists).
The USS Liberty story has always been a fascinating one; most, over the years, have characterized it as the sadly all-too common “friendly fire” sort of mistake—but facts have never entirely borne this out. There were evidently many calls from the ship to onshore installations, for instance, that were acknowledged—and yet the attack continued.
mojo: it will just take a little time til you are proved right that this will turn into conspiracy central.
i’ll pose a question for discussion…
being that, at least it seems to me, most people react negatively to the idea of a governmental cover-up, is it ever necessary and right for the government to conceal information from the general public? is it ever necessary and right to do things that alot of people might disagree with?
i just skimmed it it looks awesome, i cant wait to read it after class
hai how are you my name is harsha
@DiscHuker:
No. The government is supposed to serve the people. However, a long time ago, this got reversed and people are slaves to their own government. In this view, democracy is a failed ideology as much as people claim socialism and communism are.
But, if you talk to a well informed sociology professor, he or she will most likely defend the ideas of Marxism and communism, but with one problem – the world is not ready for it yet.
Democracy seems to be the same..
This is a great list! One of the best here, for sure.
a government should keep its people from knowledge that may not be good for them to know, so concealing some truths is fine by me.
but planning to kill some of its own citizens to justify war?
socialism is underrated. the capitalistic state of the U.S. is slowly destroying itself.
i particularly liked 3. And people to day feel safe trusting governments, thet they are not being lied to. It seems that govts just cant not lie and cheat and backstab.
Iam now living her in Southeast Asia and I am so happy that I can still browse listverse. Tamala, list like you’ve presented to us, made me an avid fan of List Universe
TO TOMO:
“If the My Lai incident could have been openly confirmed and investigated back then, we could have done something about it. And now that its disclosed, is anyone going to do anything about it? Just goes to show, out of sight, out of mind. What a short term memory we have, shame on us.”
From the same Wikipedia entry that this list was copied and pasted from:
“The carnage at My Lai might have gone unknown to history if not for another soldier, Ron Ridenhour, a former member of Charlie Company, who, independently of Glen, sent a letter detailing the events at My Lai to President Richard M. Nixon, the Pentagon, the State Department, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and numerous members of Congress.[25] The copies of this letter were sent in March 1969, a full year after the event. Most recipients of Ridenhour’s letter ignored it, with the notable exception of Congressman Morris Udall (D-Arizona). Ridenhour learned about the events at My Lai secondhand, by talking to members of Charlie Company while he was still enlisted.
Eventually, Calley was charged with several counts of premeditated murder in September 1969, and 25 other officers and enlisted men were later charged with related crimes. It was another two months before the American public learned about the massacre and trials.
Independent investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, after extensive conversations with Calley, broke the My Lai story on 12 November 1969; on 20 November, Time, Life and Newsweek magazines all covered the story, and CBS televised an interview with Paul Meadlo. The Cleveland Plain Dealer published explicit photographs of dead villagers killed at My Lai. As is evident from comments made in a 1969 telephone conversation between United States National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger and Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird, revealed recently[when?] by the National Security Archive, the photos of the war crime were too shocking for senior officials to stage an effective cover-up. Secretary of Defense Laird was heard to say, “There are so many kids just lying there; these pictures are authentic.”[citation needed]
In November 1969, General William R. Peers was appointed to conduct a thorough investigation into the My Lai incident and its subsequent cover-up. Peers’ final report, published in March 1970, was highly critical of top officers for participation in a cover-up and the Charlie Company officers for their actions at My Lai 4.[26] According to Peers’s findings:
[The 1st Battalion] members had killed at least 175-200 Vietnamese men, women, and children. The evidence indicates that only 3 or 4 were confirmed as Viet Cong although there were undoubtedly several unarmed VC (men, women, and children) among them and many more active supporters and sympathizers. One man from the company was reported as wounded from the accidental discharge of his weapon.[2]
However, critics of the Peers Commission pointed out that it sought to place the real blame on four officers who were already dead, foremost among them being the CO of TF Barker, LTC Frank Barker, who was killed in a mid air collision on June 13, 1968.”
It was openly confirmed and investigated back then, and several people were prosecuted, most notably a 2LT William Calley (who ended up effectively being the scapegoat for all of the actions that happened that day).
More information:
“On the eve of the attack, at the Charlie Company briefing, Captain Ernest Medina informed his men that nearly all the civilian residents of the hamlets in Sơn Mỹ village would have left for the market by 07:00 and that any who remained would be NLF or NLF sympathizers.[11] He was also asked whether the order included the killing of women and children; those present at the briefing later gave different accounts of Medina’s response. Some of the company soldiers, including platoon leaders, later testified that the orders as they understood them were to kill all guerrilla and North Vietnamese combatants and “suspects” (including women and children, as well as all animals), to burn the village, and pollute the wells.[12]”
“Hugh Thompson, Jr., a 24-year-old helicopter pilot from an aero-scout team, witnessed a large number of dead and dying civilians as he began flying over the village – all of them infants, children, women and old men, with no signs of draft-age men or weapons anywhere. Thompson and his crew witnessed an unarmed passive woman kicked and shot at point-blank range by Captain Medina (Medina later claimed that he thought she had a grenade).[18] The crew made several attempts to radio for help for the wounded. They landed their helicopter by a ditch, which they noted was full of bodies and in which there was movement. Thompson asked a Sergeant he encountered there (David Mitchell of the 1st Platoon) if he could help get the people out of the ditch, and the Sergeant replied that he would “help them out of their misery”. Thompson, shocked and confused, had then a conversation with Lieutenant Calley, commanding officer of the 1st Platoon, who claimed to be “just following orders”. As the helicopter took off, they saw Mitchell firing into the ditch.
Thompson then saw a group of civilians (again consisting of children, women and old men) at a bunker being approached by ground personnel. Thompson landed and told his crew that if the U.S. soldiers shot at the Vietnamese while he was trying to get them out of the bunker that they were to open fire at these soldiers. Thompson later testified that he spoke with a Lieutenant (identified as Stephen Brooks of the 2nd Platoon) and told him there were women and children in the bunker, and asked if the Lieutenant would help get them out. According to Thompson, “he [the Lieutenant] said the only way to get them out was with a hand grenade”. Thompson testified that he then told Brooks to “just hold your men right where they are, and I’ll get the kids out”. He found 12 to 16 people in the bunker, coaxed them out and led them to the helicopter, standing with them while they were flown out in two groups.
Returning to My Lai, Thompson and other air crew members noticed several large groups of bodies. Spotting some survivors in the ditch Thompson landed again and one of the crew members entered the ditch. The crew member returned with a bloodied but apparently unharmed child who was flown to safety. The child was thought to be a boy, but later investigation found that it was a 4-year-old girl. Thompson then reported what he had seen to his company commander, Major Watke, using terms such as “murder” and “needless and unnecessary killings”. Thompson’s reports were confirmed by other pilots and air crew.[19]
In 1998, three former U.S. servicemen who stopped their comrades from killing a number of villagers, significantly reducing casualties at My Lai, were awarded medals in Washington D.C.[20] The veterans also made contact with the survivors of My Lai.”
Here's horrific for you…in that photo of the My Lai massacre why were all the babies and children without pants??? Why did that young boy have blood between his legs??? This was more than "just" murder. Monsters.
Whoa, whoa, get out the way with that good iofnramtion.
Great job. Interesting facts. I like that you had old and new in the list.
brilliant list!
Operation Northwoods is quite scary
#2 has always sparked my interest. I have a time/life book at home (title fails me at the moment) that lists interesting facts and it has a list of lost nuclear bombs, including the one for #2. I ran across a website a while back:
http://www.cdi.org/Issues/NukeAccidents/Accidents.htm
that goes into details about a lot of lost bombs. Always found it interesting so many have been lost.
I find it interesting that the people realize how governments can do terrible things and therefore can’t be trusted, yet so many people believe we should trust the government to run our healthcare system? This shows that the less the government has its hands in, the better. Also, 9/11 was not a conspiracy. You say “With Bush incharge is it too hard to believe!” How many people would have to be in on this conpiracy for it to actually work? How many people would the government have to TELL about this conspiracy for it actually to be covered up? The idea that not ONE of those people would ever come forward to say they were approached by anyone with the idea for 9/11 before it happened is ridiculous. I understand that they would be scared for their safety, but plenty of countries would offer them protection.
I suggest that 9/11 was a poorly contrived conspiracy that was meant to be found out. The big question is why??? What were they up to that was so big that we needed something as big as 9/11 to distract us from?
If a government official came to you with the idea of setting off a bomb in LA so they could blame it on Iran so they could justly go into Iran, would you say yes? Obviously not. You may be afraid for your life, but to think that if it actually happened you would never tell anyone is ridiculous. Also, if it actually was a conspiracy, wouldn’t the government stop anything like “Loose Change” from ever being out in the public. All the things in Loose Change have been explained by physicists by the way.
Loose Change had gone viral extremely fast and short of shutting down the Internet they couldn't do anything. On the other hand, deleting a film with so many views would have caused uproar (see what happened with the Obama Deception a couple of weeks back) and would have made the people ask themselves why. Thus many of them would have bought and reuploaded it. In other words, if the Government would have visibly taken down the film and killed its makers, they would have been martyrs and more people than ever would have believed in the 9/11 conspiracy.
What they did was pay off some scientists and get them out there to debunk. They got all the media attention while other independent scientists who disagreed were left in the dark.
And I don't care what anyone says, Northwoods proves at least that the US Government knew the concept of a false flag and that they had planned one in the past.
This all reinforces my choice to NOT believe anything the White House says to the public. Since the U.S. seems to be the common denominator in this list, anyone who believes everything they are being told in the media is ignorant. What will be released in 40 years regarding the War in Iraq??? Scary thought…
I’m NOT American, and I am truly glad to live in a country where I don’t feel like I’m being lied to all the time.
mike…you make some valid points about the number of people that would be needed to cover up things like 911, but just one equally ridiculous point among a host of others is, how can a plane strike the pentagon, be vaporised by the heat from the explosion, but the passengers were identified by credit cards and fingerprints? The truth about 911 is that no1 has told the whole truth.
Riley, i hope this list doesnt look like i’m having a pop at the U.S. The fact is, at least the U.S. eventually relases information, it would be very difficult to have a list full of info from china, russia etc, here in Scotland we keep EVERYTHING hidden for as long as possible, hence the reason no4 was included.
9/11 conspiracy theories are sometimes more easy to believe than not- I mean, Osama bin Laden, once getting wages off the US to terrorise who the US wants terrorising, part of a family that is friendly with the Bushes? It’s Bay of Pigs stuff.
The official account requires a lot of coincidences on that day, I guess.
Not saying I believe either way, but it’s certainly not something to be discounted.
Tamala:
Back up a little bit. You did a good job on this list, but don’t run roughshod over the facts about 9/11.
The plane that struck the Pentagon was NOT “vaporized” by the explosion; this is a common error that conspiracy nuts make so that they can then go on to claim that there WAS no plane. It’s not surprising, however, that the plane *was* almost totally destroyed… an aircraft, even a jetliner, is a relatively fragile object… and as physics will tell us, when such an object strikes a far more hefty and structurally strong object (such as the steel-reinforced concrete of the Pentagon) at speed, the weaker object is going to suffer the worse damage.
And who says the passengers were identified by “credit cards” and fingerprints alone? Perhaps a few were—again, as with the plane itself, it wouldn’t be surprising that some body parts survived the crash, although the effects of the collision and explosion would have negated the idea of *intact* bodies… but it’s not impossible that a few personal items would have survived, as well.
“I’m NOT American, and I am truly glad to live in a country where I don’t feel like I’m being lied to all the time.”
haha I guess you’re just as ignorant as you think Americans are, then. Wherever you may be from, rest assured that your government at all levels is constantly lying to you. Naive much?
Many of the secrets on this list would be completely unknown or considered mere theories if they hadn’t been declassified. Yet for many years they were secret even though many people were involved.
Then why couldn’t this be happening today?
I’m scared of the things that governments kept secret, but I’m even more scared of what they are still hiding. And rest assured that they can manage keeping a conspiracy under wraps no matter how many are involved, because that’s exactly what has been done in the past (as you can see from this list).
The first priority of a conspiracy is to keep itself secret no matter the cost.
Anyone hear about those smiley face murders? that sounds like some sort of cover up to me.
DiscHuker: The government should be given a longer leash with regard to national security if, and only if, the government is preventing an attack of some sort. To take away the civil liberties of civilians just to provoke an action from someone else should be fully disclosed and prosecuted.
Randall thanks for your comments, i totally agree with your points, i hope we can agree that as far as 911 goes, for various reasons, whether we agree with them or not, you and i wont be told the whole truth, not just yet anyway.
dr. Hannibal:
Again, we’re getting lectures from a resident of a former totalitarian state on Democracy. You need a dose of humility, Lecter. My hope is that one day you get it. For your own sake. You’d be all the wiser.
Democracy is not a “failed ideology.” Indeed, democracy is NOT an ideology at all–much less a failed one. An ideology is a system; it implies a systematic structure–usually passed down by an elite to the masses, as it were. It usually involves a “master text” as well… such as “Mein Kampf” or “The Communist Manifesto.”
Democracy has none of these. It is simply the rule of the people. Nothing more, nothing less. It implies nothing except freedom and the rule of law… guided by the will, the participation, and the consent of the people. Even our modern day version of democracy—representative democracy, as it were–has no “master text.” The closest thing we have is the codification of its overriding principles in various forms—most notably the Declaration of Independence and the Declaration of the Rights of Man, and in the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights.
Fascism and Communism were ideologies, Lecter. Not Democracy.
Neither is it “failed.” Democracy simply requires constant vigilance and active participation of the people. When the people no longer participate–when they no longer care enough, and no longer play the role they’re supposed to play—then it ceases to BE democracy, and becomes something else.
Tamala:
Agreed.
One thing I DO feel… that 9/11 needn’t have happened. And one day we’ll have the truth about that–how through incompetence and poor judgement, as well as greed and slimy associations, the various administrations, since the 1980s and most particularly since the Cold War ended—have totally *****ed up our foreign policy and practically *invited* this kind of madness to hit us.
But no… we probably won’t know the whole story of that for a long time to come.
The democracy we have, whether that’s actually “Democracy” or not, has failed I guess. It’s just a word we use to justify doing awful things, y’know? Like “liberty” and such. They don’t mean a thing anymore.
Is it democracy when we can’t really change anything? When we can elect a new face for our governments, but that’s all?
Our countries are only moral when it’s convenient I guess
Someone should do a “Top Ten Common Products made by Slaves” or “Top Ten Evil Sources of Developed Countries Wealth” 
Randall: Well said. I think the democratic checks and balances system is the best possible government. Sure, it gets abused sometimes and things fall through the cracks, but it is better than one group telling its’ citizens what they can and cannot do.
I swear, someday, when the technology (and my personal wealth…) is there, I’m moving to the moon. Anyone who wants to tag along is more than welcome to come.
superb list!!! Very interesting, yet scary at the same time. Makes me wonder what else they haven’t told us.
trojan_man:
Right.
BUT… we ARE in danger of becoming “something else” if we don’t watch it. Now more than ever.
Hobolad: this country is a democracy because YOU can represent your ideals and morals (along with others) by holding a political office. As far as I know, you only have to be 35 years old and an American-born citizen to be President (it helps to be rich). Not many countries give that kind of hope.
It’d be cool if it was that easy though. It’s the ones that have the backing of the companies and the religious Fundamentalists that get in.
It’s the illusion of choice I guess.
Hobolad: hey – nice to see you on the site again – it has been ages!
Phillies: hmm – do I get a special discount?
trojan_man: you can be president if you are born of an American parent who lives in another country – I think the only requirement is something about having BEEN in America within so many years of the election.
The USS Liberty was not an intentional attack on a US ship. Us intelligence agreed with Israel that it was probably an Egyptian ship disguised as a US ship and only realized that it wasn’t when it was too late.
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/CIAreports.pdf
Furthermore, what possible motive could ISrael have had to attack a US ship?
jfrater: You remembered
I’ve been an avid reader. It’s quite an accomplishment for the site to be as interesting now as ever- congrats!
I guess the problem isn’t with democracy, or communism, or socialism- just with human nature. Selfishness and such. I mean- slavery is horrible! But if it’s tasty chocolate or cheap clothes, we’ll condone slavery (I mean try and boycott Nestle or Coca Cola, it won’t do a thing, people love ‘em)-out of sight out of mind- no one cares, except when someone does a documentary, then people are expected to care. And for a couple of days, they do.
It’s kinda like those animal cruelty types who see animal cruelty everywhere they look. Everywhere you look you can see something that is rotten under the surface. Almost everything, in fact
hobolad: why take a pot shot at “religous fundamentalists”? you expose your bias. other than the bush boys, and maybe reagan, what president has benefited from this backing?
hobolad: i think you hit the nail on the head noting that the problem with human forms of government is that there are humans involved. our nature is the problem. it is just manifested in whatever we set our minds to.
@Randall:
Well, you said it: former. If I ever start feeling like I need a dose of humility, I will call you and we can go to a Humility Workshop together.
So democracy is “the rule of the people”? And “implies nothing except freedom and the rule of law”. Whose laws? Laws of the people? How many laws have you written? How many laws have you voted for? Do you think that your “freedom” consists of choosing one crooked bastard over another? Because I don’t see anything beyond that. Democracy – like socialism and communism – does not exist in practice.
If democracy isn’t a ideology, it certainly is an illusion of freedom. (A very good one apparently)
I know you won’t believe a thing I say, because I am “a resident of a former totalitarian state”; so I suggest going to a sociology college (in a foreign country if possible), you will learn the difference between “old school oppression” and “voluntary oppression” (think “Patriot Act”).
Also, would you mind answering my post on “Top 10 Most Dangerous Places on Earth”? That ought to be interesting.
@Riley:
Yes you are, you are being lied every day of your life. Don’t even think that your country/govt is better than USA in any way.
@DiscHuker:
Correct. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter which form of government are we talking about. There are always going to be a pack of scheming bastards to take care of business.
DiscHuker: It wasn’t a pot shot, just an observation. Would a non-Christian have a chance? It’s mainly the Republicans, I guess. Guns and god y’know? Every politician who wants a chance has to at least pay lip service, though.
I mean, over here in the UK- we don’t really do god, Tony Blair coming out as Catholic was very unpopular indeed. Any hint of religion in politics we see in the USA (there’s a lot of it) we kind of…. look down on, I guess. Rightfully or wrongfully. Probably it’s just the cultural difference, but to us any hint of religion is a no-no.
And I’m not trying to say our way of politics is any better! It most certainly isn’t, but I don’t like to comment on it, being part of the country- you can’t really understand the big picture unless you’re apart from it, I think. An observer rather than a participant.
discHuker: I agree with you and Hobolad. The problem is not just found in politics either – it is also the root of problems in religion I think.
jogiff:
There’s more to the story than that.
As I said–it’s been dismissed over the years as an error. And it may have been.
But there are elements of the story that make this highly questionable. You haven’t dug deep enough. The CIA report you cited omits some details and generally whitewashes the matter.
As to WHY an intentional attack would have occurred… good question.
I found this when trying to find the link between Werner von Braun and L. Ron Hubbard. Extremely interesting:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien240.html
Joss: Ron Hubbard Jr is one of the worst things that could happen to Scientology – he certainly doesn’t hold anything back when discussing the cult! Great link – thanks
wd Joss, the whole point of this list was to encourage people to do their own reasearch..Werner von Braun described Jack Parsons as the real father of the american space programme, his involvement with L. Ron Hubbard is described here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working