Cancer is a class of diseases in which a group of cells display uncontrolled growth (division beyond the normal limits), invasion (intrusion on and destruction of adjacent tissues), and sometimes metastasis (spread to other locations in the body via lymph or blood). These three malignant properties of cancers differentiate them from benign tumors, which are self-limited, and do not invade or metastasize. Most cancers form a tumor but some, like leukemia, do not. This list looks at 10 common misconceptions about cancer.
Misconception: All cancers are the same.
Probably the biggest cancer misconception because the “Cure for Cancer” slogan makes people assume it is essentially one drug that will fix one illness. There are over a hundred types of cancer and they are all approached differently, depending on how much knowledge is known about the specific cancer and also depending on the patient’s specific needs. Thanks to the fund raising efforts of organizations such as Susan G. Komen and Avon, Medicine has made great advances in breast cancer research. Others, like pancreatic and esophageal cancers, are relatively out of the spotlight and as such, much is still being discovered and survival rates are still comparatively low.
Misconception: There is no cure.
It gets a bit confusing because we delve into technicalities but while the disease is incurable so far, the individual cancer patient can be cured. So while it’s technically true that cancer as a broad topic isn’t curable, it’s also horribly wrong and very much false to tell someone they can’t be cured of their cancer. There is a cured status, so as far as individuals are concerned, there is a cure for their cancer. Remission is the first five years immediately after diagnosis. If, after treatment and after those five years, there is no recurrence of the cancer, then the patient is declared cured. Certain types, like skin cancer, are curable by simply removing the tumor. While childhood leukemia and breast cancer are incurable as a disease, 80-90% of patients undergo successful treatments, become cured, and can live relatively normal lives.
Misconception: Cell phones cause cancer.
This is a misconception that is has no definite answer but the general consensus is that it is false. Fact of the matter is that cell phone technology is advancing rapidly and they now contain far less carcinogens than their predecessors. Studies on the correlation of cell phones to brain cancer are difficult to determine because it’s hard to accurately document such a study, however, the most recent attempt was done by the Danish Cancer Society and they have found no link between cell phones and brain cancer.
Misconception: Any lumps or large masses detected during cancer screenings are cancerous.
Not every abnormality is an automatic cancer diagnosis. It could just be a cyst that would either reabsorb itself into the body or need to be surgically removed. Some tumors are benign, meaning they are non-cancerous, however, determining which are benign, pre-cancerous, and cancerous is why screenings are important.
Misconception: Artificial sweeteners cause cancer.
This is a misconception that has regularly shown up in news headlines since the 1970s because of a 1969 study on the effects of cyclamate on mice. It was later disclosed that the mice had been given the cyclamate equivalent of 800 cans of diet soda per day for several weeks. No studies observing moderate amounts of artificial sweeteners have shown that it can lead to cancer. Artificial sweeteners are discussed because it is the most prevalent food myth but it applies to many other kitchen goods from coffee to broccoli to even water (specifically the fluoride content in water). Just as in the artificial sweeteners situation, too much of anything could lead to cancer, but it requires an excessive amount of the product to be potentially hazardous.
Misconception: All you need to beat cancer is a positive attitude, not treatment.
A good attitude does wonders to help alleviate the gravity of the situation. That’s why so many members of the cancer ward medical staff have a very pleasant demeanor. It certainly helps that the patient can maintain a positive outlook throughout treatment. However, cancer is much more than “mind over matter” and thus far, western medical research has provided the only avenue that has been repeatedly and comprehensively studied and consistently proves to be the most effective treatment against cancer.
Misconception: Surgery could cause cancer to spread throughout the body.
This myth probably originated decades before, when physicians could only diagnose the most advanced stages of cancer and surgeries were exploratory. Cancer treatment was still pretty rudimentary and without modern machinery, there was no way to fully determine if every cancerous cell was removed. Equipment has vastly improved since then and can provide a much clearer picture of what needs to be done during surgery.
Misconception: Only women get breast cancer.
Women are 100 times more likely to get breast cancer than men but since men also have breast tissue, it is still possible for them to develop breast cancer. The American Cancer Society states that roughly 2000 men are diagnosed with breast cancer every year.
Misconception: The prevalence of cancer is on the rise.
It’s true that there are more cases of cancer than in the past but it doesn’t take into account many other factors, such as increased population and longevity (risk for certain cancers increase with age). When compared to populations of the past, there is actually a decrease in the risk of cancer. This misconception may be prevalent simply because the topic is no longer taboo and people hear about it more often than they did in the past.
Misconception: Medical science already has and is withholding a cure for cancer.
Conspiracy theories abound and like many other conspiracy theories, this one is false. The Hippocratic Oath is taken to save lives, which a cure for cancer would surely do. If that weren’t enough, then surely no one would believe a pharmaceutical company wouldn’t want to be the first to claim ownership of a cash cow like the “Cancer Cure.” There was an article published recently of a drug that has been tested on four dogs and cured all four dogs that had cancers previously thought to be too advanced to be treated. With a few more successful cases, researchers will soon be allowed to see if this drug could yield similar results in human testing.
Dumb white man..humour..
Indian Chief ‘Two Eagles’ was asked by a white government official,
‘You have observed the white man for 90 years. You’ve seen his wars and his
technological advances. You’ve seen his progress, and the damage he’s done.’
The Chief nodded in agreement. The official continued, ‘Considering all these
events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?’
The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.
‘When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty
beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all
day hunting and fishing; all night having *****.’
Then the Chief leaned back and smiled. ‘Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that.’
#7 has a point, technically, it might be more profitable for drug companies to make drugs that treat cancer but don’t get rid of it, so the treatment continue longer and they make more cash. It is highly improbable that a company could get away with this practice nowadays, but some companies are corrupt enough to at least think of it. The same goes for other diseases.
the conspiracy fools are back
Last night I saw an ad on Australian television for “Go Red For Women Day”, to raise awareness of and funds for research into heart disease in women. (Why just women. Men have hearts, too!) The ad mentioned that 4 times as many women die of heart disease than of breast cancer. (The Australian Bureau of Statistics site has figures that are consistent with that. It also mentions that prostate cancer (men) kills more people than breast cancer (mainly women).)
The information website for “Go Red for Women Day” is goredforwomenday.(something), which looks like gored-for-women-day. As is “I ran the bulls in Pamplona to impress the Spanish senoritas, and got gored for women”.
121 lostatsea1
Dumb white man humour
Indian Chief ‘Two Eagles’ said … “plenty beaver”
The white man said: “I have a recipe here for strawberry ice-cream”.
(see http://listverse.com/2009/03/10/top-10-bizarre-food-ingredients/ if you don’t understand this)
125.astraya: AHSO! Thanks..I did wonder about the beaver ass juice comments!
Astraya-The likely response to your “why just women?” thing is that Heart Disease is very commonly looked at my most people as being a “Man’s Disease,” when it can be just as-if not more-deadly for women. People are trying to raise awareness that women need to watch their heart health just as much as men do.
deeeekay: Thanks for that. That makes sense. Maybe the information they provide actually says that, if I’d bothered to look at the website.
A few weeks ago my wife and I chanced to watch a program about the penis on Australia’s most daring free tv channel. On it, they said that erectile dysfunction is often symptomatic of wider heart/circulatory-related problems in men. In the old days talking to a doctor about erectile dysfunction was about the last thing that men ever did. These days, men seek out doctor’s advice much earlier, as much for dissatisfaction as well as dysfunction ie it’s changed from “can’t” to “can but not happy about it”. As a result, heart/circulation problems in men are being diagnosed and treated much earlier than they used to be.
lostatsea1: bon appetit!
On the day I learn it’s finally safe to drink diet coke I also learn my man-boobs are out to kill me! Why must life always be ups and downs!
MYTHS DISPUTED 1. CURE FOR CANCER..ESSIAC..RESEARCH IT 2. ASPERTAME DOES CAUSE CANCER..FDS SECRET REPORT LINKED DIET SODA AS NO. 1 WITH 92 SYMPTOMS 3. CELL PHONES CAUSE BRAIN TUMORS,, I HAD ONE AND IT WAS CURED W/ THE ABOVE-NAMED ESSIAC… SEE HEALTHFREEDOM.INFO. GOD BLESS!
No problem astraya:) Glad I was able to shed some light on the issue, it’s not often I get to act like a bit of a know-it-all around these parts
One of the most dangerous things about heart disease for women is that symptoms of heart attack are much more subtle. In men, every one knows that shooting pain down the left arm, and the feeling that there’s an elephant sitting on your chest means you need to see a doc. For women you see things like fatigue, dizziness, and shortness of breath…well that could mean you simply took the stairs too fast!
93. Serious
Thanks for starting your comment off with ad hominem. It immediately gives me an indication of how ‘not serious’ I should take your comment, Serious. Ignoring a number of attacks at me over facts that I never mentioned or refuted… one thing you said “Fact is that inflammation seems to be a common trait to (or cause of) cancer.” is WRONG. The cause of cancer is the uncontrolled cell growth. JFrater even says that in the first sentence of the opening paragraph.
102. Tony Dee
Not sure where I mentioned MSG but since it apparently makes you think of artificial sweeteners which I did mention, alrighty then… I did say a study showed that artificial sweeteners caused cancer in mice who were given the human equivalent of 800 cans of diet soda per day for weeks. Same problems could present themselves with MSG…meaning excess is bad, but in moderation…??? It excites the nerves cells so those with nerve-related disorders or diseases shouldn’t consume it. And of course, those who are sensitive to it shouldn’t eat it, but ‘certain people shouldn’t eat it’ applies to many other special needs diets. A friend of mine and a former boss both have celiac disease. Just because I know two people who can’t eat gluten does not mean I’ll tell the entire world to avoid bread. You failed to mention that glutamate is naturally created in many foods such as seaweed (which is how MSG was initially extracted), asparagus, tomatoes, cheese, mushrooms, and meat. Our own bodies produce it. Of course, the major concern is that MSG is far purer and therefore possibly more dangerous than the glutamate we produce on our own. That could be a possibility (even though MSG is nothing more than water, sodium and glutamate). However, studies have difficulties recreating the Chinese Restaurant Syndrome effects in the lab. Is it a valid effect of MSG or simply MSG scare-induced paranoia (i.e. a person with an actual sensitivity presents symptoms and those around them believe they also have it)? Could it be hard to recreate because scientists aren’t using ‘normal’ amounts of MSG that most people will use (normal usage being far past the recommended levels)? Jury’s still out on this. One study that added to this MSG scare found that it causes retinal thinning (and eventual blindness) in rats but was later disclosed that these rats were given 20g of MSG in their 100g diet. In other words, an extremely high amount. MSG, like I said in artificial sweeteners above, shouldn’t be taken in excess but it’s up to the individual if they want the little that strict moderation will allow. If you want to avoid it, fine, but since glutamate is naturally occurring in a number of foods you eat and even naturally created in your own body, there’s no way to completely ban it. Here’s hoping you don’t add Parmesan cheese to your spaghetti. Yeah, high levels of glutamate in that. Hopefully your mom had bottle-fed you. Breast milk is comprised mostly of lactose and glutamate. Human breast milk has ten times more glutamate than cows’ milk.
You don’t believe anything the FDA says? Ok, then there’s this:
-National Academy of Sciences: Confirms the safety of MSG as a food ingredient. (1979)
-Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives of the United Nations World Health and Food and Agricultural Organizations: Designates MSG as safe and places it in its safest category for food additives. (1988)
-European Community’s Scientific Committee for Food: Confirms MSG safety. (1991)
-American Medical Association: Concludes that MSG is safe, at normal consumption levels in the diet. (1992)
118 Razhell – “Listwriter… Don’t be so naïve…”
Listreader… Don’t be so paranoid.
130. Essiac
First things first, turn off the capslock.
Essiac: systemic review of essiac literature (review found in PubMed)
“A review of the literature on Essiac and essiac formulations showed a lack of high-quality clinical trials to substantiate any of Essiac’s traditional uses. Weak evidence from preclinical, animal, and laboratory data warranted a discussion regarding Essiac’s use for cancer, but the results are inconclusive. Several other essiac preparations are noted in the literature, adding confusion to the exact formula and its proposed benefits. In general, there is a lack of both safety and efficacy data for Essiac and essiac formulations. Well-designed trials testing Essiac or individual herbal components are necessary to make firm recommendations.”
From what I’ve seen from pro-essiac forums is that some recommend it not be used as a sole cancer treatment. Main problem I see of it being used as a cancer cure is that there isn’t even a standard essiac tea formula. Some use four herbs and roots, some as many as eight and yet no one is completely certain which specific herbs or combination of herbs helps and which are placebos or flavor enhancers. Look, never have I said alternative therapy is completely pointless. What I have said is there’s SOME validity in SOME treatments but the entire field is so big and unregulated that there’s no way to find the logic or safety around it.
Do I need to present another study aside from the Danish Cancer Society as well at the two Jfrater mentioned in another list? Alright, from the University of Ibadan in Nigeria (also found in PubMed):
“The preponderance of published research works over several decades including some with over ten years of follow up have not demonstrated any significant increase in cancer among mobile phone users. However, the need for caution is emphasized as it may take up to four decades for carcinogenesis to become fully apparent.”
—
Of course, I fully expect that all I’ve just presented in this comment will be quickly shrugged off as brainwashed pro-Big Pharma propaganda and that all the studies and those who worked on these studies are just as evil. If you want to continue thinking that way, feel free to do so, but please tone down the crazy and at the very least, provide published facts and scientific studies as to why you believe I’m a naïve, lying, brainless industry shill of an idiot and present your rebuttal in a mature fashion (I know, I know… “How can I present published studies when all published studies are purposefully designed to thwart me?!” Not my problem…) As you can see, there are a number of brave cancer patients and cancer survivors who’ve come here and shared some amazing stories of their battles. There are also a number of people who’ve supported them through their battles. None of us need your drama. We’ve got enough of our own to occupy us a good long while.
“The cause of cancer is the uncontrolled cell growth”
Errr…no
Uncontrolled cell proliferation is indeed indicative of cancer, however it is DNA mutation that CAUSES this, thus DNA mutation is the cause of cancer.
Carry on
130
“I HAD ONE AND IT WAS CURED”
Are you sure. the code of conduct for this site says no prolonged block capitals.
You are also paranoid, and wrong.
Something I disagree with is the annual “Race for Life” held by Cancer Research UK. It is exclusively for women to raise funds for the charity.
As said above, men get breast cancer too, but cannot use this very well publicised event to raise awareness and funds for it.
*****ist and wrong IMHO
cymraegbachgen – do the men not benefit from the fund-raising? I’m thinking that the funds raised and the new treatments resulting from that benefit all breast cancer sufferers.
Infection/inflammation is being shown to be a trigger for cancer – buddy didn’t have it all the way wrong. HPV has been shown to cause genital cancer (or to cause the mutation that results in cancer if you prefer), chronic ulcers (caused by bacteria) has been shown to precipitate stomach cancer. My aunt (I realize that this is just anecdotal evidence) who was crippled since infancy had an open wound that was constantly infected – it eventually became cancerous too. Took 20+ years but it did happen.
136
“Infection/inflammation is being shown to be a trigger for cancer”
Infection, yes; Inflammation, no.
Remember, inflammation is a physiological response to cellular degradation or damage. I.e Inflammation is CAUSED by infection (among other things). It is often the result of necrosis of cells (rather than apoptosis which does not result in inflammation) causing lysosomal enzymes to be released into the surrounding tissue. This does not cause genetic mutation, but the cause of the inflammation often can. (sorry, cancer is my best subject! Am taking a project in it next year)
Schoolgirls in the UK are now being given vaccines against HPV in an effort to curb cervical cancer numbers – all working in the right direction!
As to your first question, the answer is probably yes. I assume (dangerous I know) that all funds raised for CRUK go into a big pot. However, this annual event is a massive opportunity to raise awareness of breast cancer, that men do not have an opportunity to participate in. That is *****ist and wrong.
Cym:
haha, way to take the sting out of my incredibly long rant in 26 words. To get into technicalities, cell mutation is the cause of cancer but this occurs when the cell is reproducing and becomes cancerous when it is uncontrolled. So while you need both criteria, the final answer (and at great risk of feeding your already gigantic ego) is yes, you are more correct than I.
And then you had to steal my chance to redeem myself with your comment 137!! Must you take THAT away from me too?!
However, I do think the male breast cancer awareness bit isn’t quite as extreme as you put it and mom’s probably more on mark. Have you been to the event? Does it actually say that men can’t participate? I can’t make any firm conclusions from where I’m sitting but the Global (not National…didn’t find out until the morning of, haha) Race for the Cure I went to this past weekend was predominantly focusing on women but they did stress the fact that men get breast cancer too in their literature as well as included a few male testimonials in their video montages. Walking around, I saw a few groups holding signs saying something like “Men get breast cancer too!” with pictures of loved ones passed or currently battling cancer. Not saying it’s right that men don’t get equal footing but simply pointing out that the ratio of men to women with breast cancer is overwhelmingly one-sided.
And if it helps any, the official breast cancer ribbon color (pink) was actually a masculine color prior to the 1950s.
My issue with the Race for the Cure… the free stuff. Yes, I know… breast cancer > breast > milk > dairy. I understand the thought process, but to be surrounded by free samples of cheese, yogurt, and even drinks with some variation of dairy in them… they are very intolerant of my lactose intolerance.
Speaking of the HPV vaccine… anyone get it already? Cut off age is nearing for me. Unfortunately, things are harder/more expensive to come by when one doesn’t have health insurance… :-\
I attended the event with my fiancee and her mother last year. Her father, an accomplished distance runner, wished to participate but was not allowed as he was in possession of a Y chromosome
Feeding my gigantic ego…I like it. Now bow before my knowledge
I don’t know the specifics of the vaccination programme as it does not apply to blokes, and it is adminstered to ages 14 and up, but it begins next year I believe, and given at schools in the same way the BCG jab is administered.
“simply pointing out that the ratio of men to women with breast cancer is overwhelmingly one-sided.”
I completely agree that it is more a female than male problem. However, women are regularly told to examine themselves, and breast cancer is very well campaigned for for women. I would hesitate to proffer numbers, as I do not know them, but I predict that mortality percentages are probably higher for men than women (they are in cancer in general) for breast cancer as there is not the awareness, and that men wait before they go to the doctors.
“Unfortunately, things are harder/more expensive to come by when one doesn’t have health insurance…”
The joys of living with the NHS – it isnt all bad!
“To get into technicalities, cell mutation is the cause of cancer but this occurs when the cell is reproducing and becomes cancerous when it is uncontrolled.”
“yes, you are more correct than I.”
True, mutations are introduced during DNA replication, during interphase, at a constant rate. It is this mutation that then causes the uncontrolled cell proliferation.
This means that it is actually just the single criteria to turn a cell into an immortal cell, and thus start along the pathway to cancer. This doesn’t mean I was more correct than you! You were just one step further along. Don’t be so hard on yourself. I was a little more precise than you but we were both equally correct. (That came across as frightfully arrogant but that wasn’t my intention!)
Keep up the good work – the list was fantastic. About time some of these misconceptions were put right!
(To be more precise it occurs in S phase (synthesis) of Interphase)
“…mutations are introduced during DNA replication…It is this mutation that then causes the uncontrolled cell proliferation” – ay, there’s the rub
gabi319:
“I know, I know… “How can I present published studies when all published studies are purposefully designed to thwart me?!” Not my problem…)”
See, that´s why I like you. Funny with an attitude!
141.Cym: I’m a layman when it comes to biology..I suffered head trauma resulting in blood clots in my ears..these finally drained down left side of neck..few months later,sore throat and coughing blood..dentist notices a ‘fistule’ at site of drainage..then cancerous growths in same region..Query..when ones immune system suffers trauma and shock stress, can that cause the ‘immortal cell’ creation?
dear cym,
be more moderate before anouncing that cancer is your best subject because you didn’t get it really well. I’m a PhD student and my thesis is “Inflammation and Cancer”. Your sayings “Remember, inflammation is a physiological response to cellular degradation or damage. I.e Inflammation is CAUSED by infection (among other things). It is often the result of necrosis of cells (rather than apoptosis which does not result in inflammation) causing lysosomal enzymes to be released into the surrounding tissue. This does not cause genetic mutation, but the cause of the inflammation often can. (sorry, cancer is my best subject! Am taking a project in it next year)” are misleading. Inflammation is caused by infection but it can also be caused by cancer itself, as there are plenty of cancer types which are IMMUNOGENIC i.e. they cause INFLAMMATION. It is true that necrosis can cause it but when it happens, when necrosis-drived inflammation is triggered, pathways of apoptotic death are also activated. Furthermore when you have inflammation, apart from lysosomal enzymes you have cytokines which trigger a wide array of cellular pathways. Keep that.
Mutations are really often in our cells but the cell has always a way to face them. There are mechanisms correcting the “mistakes” that occur. BUT when you have inflammatory (not infected) environment, these cytokines might trigger pathways that inhibit the correction mechanisms of the cells. This means than an otherwise naive “daily” mutation can lead to uncontroled growth.Which means that inflammation CAN CAUSE cancer.
furthermore, inflammation leads to the production of ROS=Reactive Oxugen Species. This is one of the most widely known trigger of DNA mutations. Infllammation causing cancer again. ROS is produced in order to fight the enemy when inflammation occurs, but it might also mutate the non-enemy, autologous,healthy cells
Katerina,
I am glad to hear you are researching cancer at a high level! Who is sponsering your PhD?
It seems from your post that english is not your first language? I commend you for that btw. However it seems that in your haste to condemn my science, you have overlooked what I actually said.
“Inflammation is caused by infection but it can also be caused by cancer itself”
I did allow for this by saying “Inflammation is CAUSED by infection (among other things)” You glossed over this and made it appear that I said only infection causes inflammation – anything that causes cellular damage can cause inflammation, and it is pretty safe to say that cancer causes damage!
“Mutations are really often in our cells but the cell has always a way to face them.”
I addressed this in my follow up post. Perhaps I should have been more explicit about the repair mechanisms for DNA that means that most mutations are excised, or repaired. DNA is the only macromolecule the body repairs rather than creates new from scratch when errors occur.
This section I find misleading:
“It is true that necrosis can cause it but when it happens, when necrosis-drived inflammation is triggered, pathways of apoptotic death are also activated”
My apoptosis lecturer, Prof. Ifor Bowen is at the forefront of this research. He has taught us that Necrosis and apoptosis were originally difficult to distinguish as they use many similar PATHWAYS. However, Apoptosis does not lead to inflammation whereas Necrosis inevtiably does. You should know this fundamental difference as a PhD student.
You are also misleading in your “inflammation leads to the production of ROS=Reactive Oxugen Species”
ROS are natural by-products of oxygen metabolism, and increase under a NUMBER of conditions, including environmental stress. Free radicals are also thought to be the cause of aging. You make it sound as if ROS are ONLY produced in reaction to inflammation.
I would like to see the publications where you have gleaned ROS causing cancer. A brief glance on Pubmed is showing me only ROS COMBATING oncogenesis or cancer cells. I may be wrong though so would be happy to look through any material you can provide me with.
I am a little hazy on why you are drawing attention to cytokines? Can you clear that up please? It was my understanding that cytokines are used extensively in cellular communication. They are proteins, peptides, or glycoproteins – does this not make them too large to affect DNA synthesis directly? Surely the focus should be on cytokine RECEPTORS such as TNF (Tumour necrosis factor responsible for cell death)
“be more moderate before anouncing that cancer is your best subject because you didn’t get it really well.”
Now. Regardless of how well you assume I have grasped this subject, it doesn’t prevent it from being my BEST subject. I may be awful at all my others. Also, bear in mind, that you are taught subjects piecemeal. At this stage in my education, everything I said above was correct. I got over 70% in my Genetics and cancer related modules, so I believe I grasp it quite well. I accept that maybe you did not mean to be so condescending (it may be a language barrier) but that is how you came across.
I was of the opinion that I had tailored my explanation to something understood by the average intelligent lay person; I try and take New Scientist as my aim, as people can understand that. I don’t think it is necessary for the purposes of this board to be explicit in the minute workings of the cell. I think you will find, however, that I can fight my corner quite well.
I DO know my stuff, and the implication that I don’t is unjustified and unwelcome. I hope it was a misunderstanding
“It is true that necrosis can cause it but when it happens, when necrosis-drived inflammation is triggered, pathways of apoptotic death are also activated”
My apoptosis lecturer, Prof. Ifor Bowen is at the forefront of this research. He has taught us that Necrosis and apoptosis were originally difficult to distinguish as they use many similar PATHWAYS. However, Apoptosis does not lead to inflammation whereas Necrosis inevtiably does. You should know this fundamental difference as a PhD student.
I didn’t say somewhere that apoptosis leads to inflammation. I said NECROSIS-drived inflammation. So I know it pretty well as a PhD student. I said that necrosis leads to inflammation and inflammation leads to apoptosis
“Free radicals are also thought to be the cause of aging. You make it sound as if ROS are ONLY produced in reaction to inflammation.”
I didn’t make it sound like this. YOU misunderstood. It is absolutely clear that I mean that inflammation leads to ROS production. I didn’t write exclusively, only, always or something like that. Nice try but you didn’t make it again
“They are proteins, peptides, or glycoproteins – does this not make them too large to affect DNA synthesis directly? Surely the focus should be on cytokine RECEPTORS such as TNF (Tumour necrosis factor responsible for cell death”
It is funny to ask if proteins are large to affect DNA synthesis. Do you know what is a polymerase or a transcription factor leading DNA synthesis? Proteins!!!! Enhanceosome? Have you ever heard of it? Before lecturing me about fundamentals for a PhD student, think why you took 70% in your Genetics.
Cytokines, after binding to receptors of course, trigger pathways which activate proteins which activate other proteins which can be transcription factors, checkpoint cyclines, DNA damage response factors e.t.c. This means that cytokines affect DNA. Even if the cytokine receptors are expressed in a cell and exposed to cell membrane, if cytokines are not there, signalling will not happen. So cytokines are those who lead to the cellular outcome.
Pubmed. The first review that I saw after my quick glance on Pubmed “Reactive oxygen species: a double-edged sword in oncogenesis.”
Reactive oxygen species (ROS) are molecules or ions formed by the incomplete one-electron reduction of oxygen. Of interest, it seems that ROS manifest dual roles, cancer promoting or cancer suppressing, in tumorigenesis.
and if you studymore you will realise that your saying: ““Infection/inflammation is being shown to be a trigger for cancer”
Infection, yes; Inflammation, no. ”
is absolutely wrong.
So why do you mention necrosis and apoptosis and lysosome enzymes? To support what?You say “It is often the result of necrosis of cells (rather than apoptosis which does not result in inflammation) causing lysosomal enzymes to be released into the surrounding tissue. This does not cause genetic mutation, but the cause of the inflammation often can.”
what do you prove hear? That inflammation-which is caused by necrosis- leades to lysosomal enzyme release which cannot cause mutations a.k.a. inflammation doesn’e lead to cancer?
sorry hear=here and leades=leads
and yes you do know your stuff but you do not know what you claim about inflammation and tumorigenesis because as it seems it is not your stuff. So before feeling offended think that it would be better not to be so absolute on scientific questions. Infection yes Inflammation no is really risky to be claimed and actually, it is wrong.
@cym
“I was of the opinion that I had tailored my explanation to something understood by the average intelligent lay person”
can you include bees and flowers please? i find my intelligence a little lower than average today.
smite me with your mighty knowel.. oh sorry, intelligence, my friend!
katerina , cym, if by some fateful chance my Schwann cell tumors ever degenerated into cancer, I would rather have cym working on a cure than katerina.
Why?
cym likes people. He’s funny as well as intelligent.
From the little I’ve seen of katerina, I get the feeling that she despises people and would be happy only in a lab, far away from anything human.
From my many experiences with doctors over the last twelve years, I can tell you that the ones I get the most out of are the ones who have the best doctor-patient relationship.
You know it’s been a while since I’ve seen a scientific discussion on LV! Kind of glad I was the catalyst.
Really interesting stuff, Katrina. But again – as with your first comment here – a lot of nitpicking (I’m not offended! In fact I do it all the time when there’s a misconception list. You should see my discourse on the history of the banana on another list
). I didn’t respond to your comment about the surgery item because no one else brought it up so I assumed everyone else got my meaning, but since the opportunity has arisen… The misconception is that surgery causes cancer to spread. Of course, even with surgery, cancer can persist even afterward especially if some cancerous cells remain but the actual surgery certainly does not cause cancer growth as some would believe. That misconception is why some people refuse to undergo surgery. It’s happening even now with a family friend of ours and she basically paraphrased what I say here.
If we went your nitpicky course to say inflammation is the cause of cancer, well then, it opens up another messy scenario. The human body is remarkably homeostatic. Inflammation does not occur at random. It has to have been caused by something else. Including addendums that inflammation is the cause of cancer would mean adding an addendum to the addendum to include the cause of the inflammation that would cause the cancer and… see where I’m getting at? The nitpicking makes things messy. The reason I was willing to concede to cym’s definition is because it is far closer to the root of cancer than mine. Yes, inflammation is indicative of cancer, and yes, unregulated cell growth is indicative of cancer HOWEVER the on-off switch for cancer is when the mutation persists. Inflammation could be a sign of cancer, but inflammation could also NOT be a sign of cancer…sheesh, this is really bad grammar, haha…(e.g. Tendonitis is inflammation of the tendons often by overuse but is not cancerous; Tonsilitis is inflammation of the tonsils often by infection but is not cancerous) and my example of unregulated cell growth could be a sign of cancer but also might not (e.g. benign tumors). See how messy this nitpicking is getting? However, I am pleased to see this scientific discussion! Care to share anything about your work?
cym – “Don’t be so hard on yourself.”
I wasn’t. As you can see, I still refuse to say I was wrong. Merely less correct.
“Now bow before my knowledge”
Not until you can go toe to toe with me in an academic decathalon and I’ve yet to see you go into lengthy discourse on color theory and its applications in oil paints to create the illusion of three dimensions on a two dimensional field all the while taking into consideration the materials used to create said oil paints because as everyone should know the translucent or opaque qualities of the medium will create a remarkable difference between the specific paint’s abilities to recreate the sfmato effect. 
pfft
GTT – “Funny with an attitude!”
I am quite proud of that description! Brag about it all the time. I really want business cards with that written on there, haha.
Interesting you say that! My old boss used to call me ‘lazy with an attitude’!
Alright, just a disclaimer. He (the boss) was being sarcastic. I am by no means lazy. A while ago at work, my (current) boss noticed this blue, beaded necklace thing I wore and asked me if I made it. I said “Pshh… no! I’m too lazy to make this stuff myself!” and then I asked myself “Well WHY am I too lazy?” and thus a new obsession…I am now making my own jewelry.
gabi – you’re a value/hue/saturation/chroma/intensity girl???
SWEET
Dear gabbi,
I also got your meaning and I insist that it’s wrong. Surgery can cause spread of cancer if during operation an infection by plain bacteria occurs. Even in an operating theatre (at least in those where I have been) there are plenty of microorganisms. When patient’s part of the body where the tumor is located is exposed to microorganisms, there are cases that infections occur. This can lead to inflammation, correct? Some of the inflammatory cells recruited in the peritumoral area where the inflammation has occured, can be immature dendritic cells for example. These immature dendritic cells, when they are present in tumor areas, can be reverted even in endothelial like precursors. This means angiogenesis (Nature Medicine publication-I was member of the lab of UPENN that discovered this). So a naive infection during surgery, or an inflammation caused otherwise during operation, can lead to spread of cancer.Another example is the one mentioned at comment 15 (TruCut biopsies of some particular types of cancer (especially hepatocellular carcinoma) may indeed “seed” some cancer cells that will later develop metastases on the skin, where the TruCut needle was inserted, which is why these biopsies should always be done cautiously)So nobody can claim with certainty that “surgery certainly does not cause cancer growth as some would believe”. Futhermore if you study Nature and Nature Medicine publications you will realise that the field of inflammation causing cancer is really really hot! MRC, Wellcome Trust and other organisms invest many $$ on research on that.So yeah it is messy but interesting and important.
Of course this doesn’t mean that someone shouldn’t do the surgery. But doctors have to be more cautious and patients have to insist on that.I really don’t be;ieve this is nitpicking. Even if one patient is protected by this information, I find it really important.
I didn’t say that inflammation always causes cancer and do not do surgeries. I said that it can indeed be dangerous and be sure to discuss it with your doctor and ask for experienced doctors to do the operation because a trainee that is less stable can be dangerous. You see in my country, it is hghly possible to assign such an operation to a trainee.
@ segues: “katerina , cym, if by some fateful chance my Schwann cell tumors ever degenerated into cancer, I would rather have cym working on a cure than katerina.cym likes people. He’s funny as well as intelligent.
From the little I’ve seen of katerina, I get the feeling that she despises people and would be happy only in a lab, far away from anything human.”
I respect your opinion even though you have no idea about me and how much I love people and especially patients. I’ve spent 2 days without sleeping and one week of 12hour-on the bench trying to find a chemo combination for the ovarian cancer cells of a 14 year old girl that was one of the most rare cases Ι’ve ever heard of.Probably this girl will not share your opinion.
I have to say that after my considered reposte to katerina, that was a very aggressive attack! When is 70% considered bad? It is a First class honours mark!
“That inflammation-which is caused by necrosis- leades to lysosomal enzyme release which cannot cause mutations a.k.a. inflammation doesn’e lead to cancer?”
I think you have shot yourself in the foot here. You have said that the inflammation is caused by necrosis. Inflammation doesn’t lead to the lysosomal release, it is the necrosis of the cells that releases the myriad of enzymes into the surrounding tissue! You have just agreed with me! In fact, your entire 149 is a post without point!
“I didn’t make it sound like this. YOU misunderstood”
Hmmm…I will respectfully disagree here. You have a lot to learn about tone in a piece of writing.
“I said that necrosis leads to inflammation and inflammation leads to apoptosis”
No you didn’t! go back and read again…In any case, I am trawling through a few books here, and (it may be because they are UG books not PG) but I cannot find mention of inflammation causing apoptosis…I CAN find Necrosis causing apoptosis, but not inflammation. Can you clear that up? (That isnt sarcasm, it is a request – most people would get that but it seems with you I have to spell things out exceptionally clearly)
“Enhanceosome? Have you ever heard of it? ”
Yes I have heard of it, and the replisome, and DNA Pol, and the other myriad of enzymes working in the nucleus. This is my fault. I was not clear enough – I thought I had asked a polite question for you to clarify for me. Obviously what I actually said was “attack me and try and make me look stupid” the problem, katerina, is that all you have achieved is make yourself look vindictive and arrogant. I was looking for clarification from someone who is supposedly better trained than me; that is how one learns. Don’t go in to teaching. Every direct question I asked you, you ignored in favour of attacking me. Not good debating decorum.
“I respect your opinion”
Unfortunately I don’t think you do. I don’t think you respect anyone’s opinion, or certainly nobody here. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and thought it was a language barrier that caused you to come off as rough, abrasive, rude and arrogant…but that is just clearly you.
You seem hesitant to share your work? Who are you working with? Who is sponsoring your PhD. You seem very proud of it…
“Even if one patient is protected by this information, I find it really important”
Yes because cancer patients trawl through the annals of LV to find out what they should do. Please! The very arrogance of that ascertation!
“You see in my country, it is hghly possible to assign such an operation to a trainee”
Then I feel sorry for your country. Don’t lump us in with you! Your ORs sound quite filthy in their practice!
157 – which are you, a PhD student, a chemo technician or a doctor? The reason I ask is that it is rare in this country for rare cases to be given over to a student to try and solve…
“I’ve spent 2 days without sleeping”
Come back when you have experienced sleep deprivation like me and segue have!
“one week of 12hour”
A whole week of working twelve hours!
The very idea! I mean that is just not on in the real world is it! Grow up. My fiancee regularly works 16hour days. Your 12 hour week is pathetic in comparison.
*sigh*
I am really disappointed in you tbh. I was hoping for some lively academic debate from an intellectual superior in my field. It turns out that all you came here for was to bask in your own superiority…how sad. I would take my better personal skills over your slightly better knowledge any day.
If you want a board where everyone is of PhD level in your field, I suggest you start one. I am PhD level in the Ryanodine receptor, but when people ask me about it I generalise, use metaphors and cut corners so they understand and don’t get left feeling stupid. Not everything I say is 100% scientifcally accurate, but you know what? I am fine with that; I enjoy the learning process. It is a skill I suggest you learn…rapidly.
Now. Learn some manners or ***** off.
Have a nice day.
Gabi…take notes.
THAT was a rant
Thanks for your comment btw, segue! Nice to know one is wanted!
I really hope this individual bucks their ideas up, comes back and retorts in a more measured fashion, answering my queries and generally trying to be nice…Needless to say I have my doubts.
157 katerina:..I’ve spent 2 days without sleeping and one week of 12hour-on the bench…
****
***cym, I also laughed at these “imposing” hours! I worked, ordinarily, 16 hour days, and often longer. I can’t even count the number of days when one work day just melted into another.
Of course, now that I’m disabled, things are a bit different, but my work ethic hasn’t changed. I’ve just rerouted it into things I am able to handle, considering my spinal cord’s condition (I *am* going to learn SCUBA before we go to Kaui at years end!).
159.cym: And a fine rant it was!
Would like your opinion on my query at #144, as I find it too coincidental that the Squamouscell Carcinoma grew in the same area.
160.segues: When I ran my business 16 hr. days were the good ones! Many’s the times I slept there, as too exhausted to go home. The main thing to remember while SCUBA diving is.. breathe! That may sound funny, but you have a normal instinct to hold your breath underwater..also every 33ft. is one atmosphere in salt water, 34ft in fresh.. meaning a dive to 66ft is 3 atu absolute or 44.1 psi. You will need a dive light to see the unbelievable colour under water as light fades quickly below 15ft. The wonders await you and the weightlessness should prove a boon to your body.. watch out for red coral and sea urchins..enjoy.
Why are you so offended? Because I told you to be unassertive? (in fact I said more moderate which of course is wrong). Or is it that I told you not to be so absolute about a scientific questions? You were the first to doubt on my “fundamental for a PhD student” knowledge, right? That’s why you took the reply about your Genetics
.
My 149 post is a question. Read:
“You say “It is often the result of necrosis of cells (rather than apoptosis which does not result in inflammation) causing lysosomal enzymes to be released into the surrounding tissue. This does not cause genetic mutation, but the cause of the inflammation often can.”
what do you prove here? That inflammation-which is caused by necrosis- leades to lysosomal enzyme release which cannot cause mutations a.k.a. inflammation doesn’e lead to cancer?” I am asking you, why did you mention about necrosis and apoptosis. I was asking what was YOUR point.
“Then I feel sorry for your country. Don’t lump us in with you! Your ORs sound quite filthy in their practice!”
“Us” Who are “you?” A group of civilised people ignoring problems in other countries? You know, in case you didn’t think of it, people from my country are also reading this list.
“furthermore, inflammation leads to the production of ROS=Reactive Oxugen Species. This is one of the most widely known trigger of DNA mutations. Infllammation causing cancer again. ROS is produced in order to fight the enemy when inflammation occurs, but it might also mutate the non-enemy, autologous,healthy cells”. Where do I say that ROS are ONLY produced in reaction to inflammation? How do I make it sound like this? Which is that weird tone that you smelled out?
“It is true that necrosis can cause it but when it happens, when necrosis-drived inflammation is triggered, pathways of apoptotic death are also activated. ” Hmmmmm…it seems as if I say that necrosis drives inflammation and then apoptotic death is activated.
“I CAN find Necrosis causing apoptosis, but not inflammation. Can you clear that up? ”
I will post some references in a while, but since they are hundreds, I believe that if you search for [apoptosis inflammation] in Pubmed you can find many. Prefer the reviews.
“You seem hesitant to share your work? Who are you working with? Who is sponsoring your PhD. You seem very proud of it” I am not proud of something. I am interested in science and in helping to find cure for cancer. Would it help you somehow to learn names and personal details?
“Yes because cancer patients trawl through the annals of LV to find out what they should do. Please! The very arrogance of that ascertation!”
I am telling my opinion on what they should do. I say… “be sure to discuss it with your doctor and ask for experienced doctors to do the operation because a trainee that is less stable can be dangerous. You see in my country, it is hghly possible to assign such an operation to a trainee.” Not all patients know that trainees do such operations. And sorry but I believe that people in my country and other countries with corrupted and unorganised health system have the right to know the truth!
157 – which are you, a PhD student, a chemo technician or a doctor? The reason I ask is that it is rare in this country for rare cases to be given over to a student to try and solve…
You can be proud about your country. A PhD student in a Medical School in my country does a lot of technician’s work and my professor is one of the specialists in molecular biology of cancer in my country and he really trusts me. So yeah rare cases are given to PhD students.
Sorry, but someone else is pathetic…”“I’ve spent 2 days without sleeping”
Come back when you have experienced sleep deprivation like me and segue have!
“one week of 12hour”
A whole week of working twelve hours! The very idea! I mean that is just not on in the real world is it! Grow up. My fiancee regularly works 16hour days. Your 12 hour week is pathetic in comparison.”
I said that i’ve been working these hours only for this case. I’ve been working for 14 to 16 hours for many years 7 days a week, so what you say just seems funny. You can feel proud about your fiancee, but sorry to dissapoint you, you are mistaken again about what I said. I don’t care to prove you how hard I’ve been working.YOU are the one searching for approval “Gabi…take notes.THAT was a rant”.
“Now. Learn some manners or ***** off.” Teach me about manners!
“I am fine with that; I enjoy the learning process.”lol, yes…”I DO know my stuff, and the implication that I don’t is unjustified and unwelcome. ” here it is obvious that you are enjoying learning process and you are not *****ed off proven wrong!
Cell Death and Differentiation (2006) 13, 1789–1801. doi:10.1038/sj.cdd.4401859; published online 20 January 2006
A novel mechanism of CD40-induced apoptosis of carcinoma cells involving TRAF3 and JNK/AP-1 activation
Mediators of Inflammation
Volume 4 (1995), Article ID 614169, 11 pages
doi:10.1155/S0962935195000020
Apoptosis and inflammation
C. Haanen and I. Vermes
Department of Clinical Chemistry, Medical Spectrum Twente, P.O. Box 50.000, Enschede NL-7500 KA, The Netherlands
Potential mechanisms involved in ceramide-induced apoptosis in human colon cancer HT29 cells.
Wang J, Lv XW, Du YG.
Biomed Environ Sci. 2009 Feb;22(1):76-85.
Cell Death Differ. 2008 Jan;15(1):3-12. Epub 2007 Nov 16. Links
Molecular characteristics of immunogenic cancer cell death.Tesniere A, Panaretakis T, Kepp O, Apetoh L, Ghiringhelli F, Zitvogel L, Kroemer G.
INSERM U848, Institut Gustave Roussy, Pavillon de Recherche 1, 39 rue Camille Desmoulins, Villejuif, France.
Apoptotic cell death is initiated by a morphologically homogenous entity that was considered to be non-immunogenic and non-inflammatory in nature. However, recent advances suggest that apoptosis, under certain circumstances, can be immunogenic. In particular, some characteristics of the plasma membrane, acquired at preapoptotic stage, can cause immune effectors to recognize and attack preapoptotic tumor cells. The signals that mediate the immunogenicity of tumor cells involve elements of the DNA damage response (such as ataxia telangiectasia mutated and p53 activation), elements of the endoplasmic reticulum stress response (such as eukaryotic initiation factor 2alpha phosphorylation), as well as elements of the apoptotic response (such as caspase activation). Depending on the signal-transduction pathway, tumor cells responding to chemotherapy or radiotherapy can express ‘danger’ and ‘eat me’ signals on the cell surface (such as NKG2D ligands, heat-shock proteins and calreticulin) or can secrete/release immunostimulatory factors (such as cytokines and high-mobility group box 1) to stimulate innate immune effectors. Likewise, the precise sequence of such events influences the ‘decision’ of the immune system to mount a cognate response or not. We therefore anticipate that the comprehension of the mechanisms governing the immunogenicity of cell death will have a profound impact on the design of anticancer therapies.
163.katarina: Found this while trying to answer my own search for ‘trauma and cancer’..gabi319: Seems #4 is not a misconception..
Cancer patients may harbor micrometastases which are responsible for recurrent disease. Micrometastases remain dormant as a result of a balance between tumor cell proliferation and an equivalent rate of cell death [1,2]. Surgical interventions may trigger tumor growth an effect associated with angiogenesis, cytokines and growth factors release [3]. We report a patient with non-small lung cancer who had a rapid tumor growth and recurrence at a minor trauma site of his parietal skull bone. We suggest that the phenomenon of tumor growth after trauma or surgery deserves further investigation and study.
BMC Cancer. 2005; 5: 94.
Published online 2005 August 4. doi: 10.1186/1471-2407-5-94.
lostatsea1: “Surgical interventions may trigger tumor growth an effect associated with angiogenesis, cytokines and growth factors release [3]” this is one of the things I more or less mentioned and it is a scientific fact.
This is a link of a review article with many interesting points http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W85-4B4P64B-R&_user=83470&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=full&_orig=search&_cdi=6645&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000059627&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=83470&md5=469a5aa81e7968c26824d023e09d201e#SECX11
(Lancet Oncol. 2003 Dec;4(12):760-8.Excisional surgery for cancer cure: therapy at a cost.Coffey JC, Wang JH, Smith MJ, Bouchier-Hayes D, Cotter TG, Redmond HP.)
if you need any help in downloading it tell me in case I can help
there are many interesting theories on trauma and cancer. If you need any help in you research I’d be glad to help if I can
165.katarina: Thank you for the link.. however that pertains to surgery.. my query is; did the drain of the blood clots cause, A. the ‘fistule’ B. the Squamouscell Carcinoma C. the time between accident (late March and final diagnosis, October) to reach stage two? Any help would be gratefully acknowledged. Thanks again.
lostatsea1
have a nice day
I will refresh my memory about something to be sure and reply for sure about what I believe. I am in the middle of an experiment now, but when I’m done I will write back if I can help for sure.
I would continue to debate you, katerina, but it seems it is pointless. Where have I gained this from? Well, from your inability to see why what you have said is offensive, your english is not good enough to sense tone in a written piece (or you would realise that I am not “the one searching for approval” the quote you use to support that was sarcastic and a joke between regulars on this site). In addition you seem determined to insult and play the one-up-manship game, as well as misconstruing what I say and ignoring other bits.
You are throwing these things at us in a desperate attempt to impress. I find that very sad, and feel sorry for you, really I do.
“Teach me about manners!” Yes. I would. But you wouldn’t understand. I was very polite first time round which merely caused you to attack me. Why should I stand and be insulted and take it. That may be the norm where YOU come from but not here.
“you are mistaken again about what I said.”
When a number of people all make the same mistake, which is more likely? That a number of people are all stupid and wrong, or a single person cannot express themself eloquently enough to prevent misunderstandings?
I shall answer that myself – it is the latter. You are not gifted enough to argue cohesively in English.
I applaud you for trying to debate in a language that obviously is not easy for you, but nothing else. You are quite rude, abrasive and arrogant. Even Randall is better than you. You attack the list writer very aggressively, when it is obvious you could not write anything of this quality. I have enough trouble reading through your posts so a list would be laughable.
I know you will be compelled to reply to this with some sort of statement of victory, or to attack me again. Be my guest – you are only fulfilling my predictions about you as a person.
““Us” Who are “you?” A group of civilised people ignoring problems in other countries?”
You know what I find funny? If we intervene in other countries we are criticised…if we mind our own business we are criticised. No win situation. Why should a country interfere in the inner medical workings of another? O…wait…that was a question… damn…you can’t handle those. O well.
If you had spent any time around this site you would know where I come from. You would know what language my name is in. You would also know proper debating decorum and we might have gotten on…
Shame. Although I am glad to see my 159 was proven right.
You know what I find funny? If we intervene in other countries we are criticised…if we mind our own business we are criticised. No win situation. Why should a country interfere in the inner medical workings of another?
wow! to care about people in other countries doesn’t mean you are asked to interfere in its inner medical workings
“you are throwing these things at us in a desperate attempt to impress. I find that very sad, and feel sorry for you, really I do.”
to impress by claiming that inflammation can cause cancer and that you are wrong? lol That’s how you impress others in your country? By proving a sciolist wrong?
“I have enough trouble reading through your posts so a list would be laughable.” I really do not care at all. You are the one talking about impressions. I wouldn’t write a list anyway.I believe you should be a specialist on a subject to be able to write a list about misconceptions on that field. At least I may help lostatsea1 or someone else…if I can. Please do stop debating me. You don’t say anything interesting. It’s just a loss of time.
It seems that cym’s gigantic ass has sat on every topic except for this surgery issue… fine, if I must attempt to reclarify yet again…
No, katrina, you don’t understand. I never refuted the infection causing cancer. I am fairly familiar with the HPV and its vaccine even if I haven’t received it myself. I rarely address nitpicking because it adds another dimension to some all too brief paragraphs. I never made any absolute statements; in fact, one of my comments here even says there are no absolutes. YOU are the one creating an absolute situation in that the possibility or minority result of a situation would make the entire general statement invalid. Everything on the list is a general statement (as most lists are because it is rather hard to squeeze in a lot of information in small paragraphs. Try it yourself) and I assumed everyone would understand that. I mentioned a situation in which cyclamate caused cancer even though I wrote the statement of that it does not. Your example of surgery allowing bacteria in (which, btw, would mean the bacteria is the cause and not the surgery. Place the situation in a new location but provide the bacteria access by some other means (deep cut, car accident, etc.) and it would yield similar results. As a scientist, you should’ve known that what you wrote was an extremely wide and generalized statement) MIGHT cause tumor growth and lostatsea’s “Surgical interventions MAY trigger tumor growth” are taking individual circumstances and making that the rule for the majority.
As it is, this particular item was a SOCIAL misconception. By that I mean a patient gets diagnosed with cancer, recommended surgery but opts not to because this will happen. Not the rare occurance that this could happen but that this WILL happen. There’s a rare chance that a blind man could get rip-roaring drunk, believe he could drive, thereby killing me in a hit and run as I cross the street. Does the POSSIBILITY that this MAY happen keep me from crossing streets? No because the GENERAL situation is that it won’t happen. As a general statement, I still stand behind what I read in MSNBC Health, CNN Health, the American Cancer Society, what was discussed in person by the number one Critical Care and General Surgeon in my region, by the Oncologist he highly recommended as well as many booklets on specific cancers that were in the oncology office. Not saying I read them all but a good bulk of it since I had plenty of free time. I am fairly sure every single booklet brought up this surgery misconception within the first ten pages.
I’m not even going to respectfully say this: I find you obnoxious. This tenacity is admirable if you apply it to your work as a PhD student, an Chemo technician, an oncologist who deals with 14 year old ovarian cancer patients, a medical researcher, medical practicioner, and someone who apparently is high up enough in the medical chain to watch a surgery all the while dealing your one week of 12 hours. My profession requires 14-16 hour a day commitments, 5-6 days a week for months at a time doing physically demanding labor (one of the requirements for the job is being able to lift a 50lbs and I do that regularly throughout the day). Cry me an effin’ river…
Gabi,
Perhaps I should take notes? An excellent dressing down if I may say!
“Not saying I read them all” Tut tut…lazy gabi…
I promised myself I wasn’t going to reply to katerina, but I find myself having to respond as yet again she has:
1) Not responded to my questions
2) Ignored the pieces of my post that she can’t deal with
3)Misunderstood my tone YET AGAIN.
“By proving a sciolist wrong?”
I assume that was meant to read ‘socialist’ *SIGH* This shows you know nothing about me! I am a UK citizen and a stuanch supporter of the Labour party…the SOCIALIST party of the UK. Idiot. Besides, what does your socialism have to do with ANYTHING. Neither of us brought up your political allignment so why bring it up now!? A desperate attempt to discredit someone who is right I feel…makes you look paranoid.
“wow! to care about people in other countries doesn’t mean you are asked to interfere in its inner medical workings”
I don’t think you even understand what YOU said there. You have complained because we don’t care about your medical situation…but say we shouldn’t do anything about it…my head is spinning here. By your logic, it doesn’t matter if we give a damn or not; nothing changes.
“I wouldn’t write a list anyway.I believe you should be a specialist on a subject to be able to write a list about misconceptions on that field.”
Confused once again. You are saying you are an expert, and now saying you aren’t? I am getting more and more suspicious of you…
I don’t say anything interesting? Hmmm…I would beg to differ. You are the one whose posts are verging on un readable. You are boring the laymen of this post with detailed scientific theory. You are not good for interesting debate because you cannot debate.
Nice to see that my 168 was proven right.
My dear you should stop posting. You are looking more ridiculous with each passing post. Read gabi’s post carefully (with an english to idiot dictionary) and you will find out that her list is excellent, and you are setting your sights too high for this site. If you cannot deal with that then I kindly suggest you disappear back to those socialist web pages that make you feel warm and safe.
(btw gabi, am I right in saying your “work as a PhD student, an Chemo technician, an oncologist who deals with 14 year old ovarian cancer patients, a medical researcher, medical practicioner, and someone who apparently is high up enough in the medical chain to watch a surgery all the while dealing your one week of 12 hours.” is sarcastic?
Also…”It seems that cym’s gigantic ass has sat on every topic except for this surgery issue…”
Ahem…gigantic ass?)
One last thing.
“You are the one talking about impressions.”
Get this into your thick head. I am not the only one with these impressions my dear. Myself, gabi and segue (i.e three regular posters and the most recent posters on this list) all seem to have the same impression of you.
Now unless you are similar to one paranoid person we had on here who thought we were all the same person, that means you are outnumbered three to one.
Logically that means that it isnt just my opinion…but fact as two independent, intelligent people have come to their own conclusions which concur with mine.
I am practically certain you are going to come back with me having ‘misunderstood’ yet more of your post, but as I said in 168 (which you ignored) if a number of people all misunderstand the same thing, the fault most likely lies not with them, but with an individual who is not talented enough to express themselves eloquently, without leading to misunderstandings.
To ram that home (easy lostatsea) you can’t write. That is why what you are thinking, and what you are writing aren’t the same.
“here it is obvious that you are enjoying learning process and you are not *****ed off proven wrong!”
Another poorly constructed sentence but I get the gyst.
I am not *****ed off when proven wrong. If you could understand english well enough, you would realise I was seeking some clarification on some of your points and was hoping to learn from you.
I was *****ed off because you are a foul obnoxious arrogant individual who has all the social skills of a demented buffalo on heat – i.e. it attacks anything.
You attacked me for no reason. Someone being incorrect needs to be corrected. I completely agree with that sentiment, and have been doing it for months on this site. But there is a difference between you and me which segue has alluded to: I like people and have a sense of humour. I give people the benefit of the doubt at first and only become as aggressive as you if they are bible thumping jesus freaks who are ignoring everything I am saying…mostly.
You are here merely to pander to your own ego.
That is fine…but sad. Especially seeing as you don’t do it in an amusing or entertaining way.
Now off you pop back to your experiments/thesis/diagnoses/surgery/consultation/machines…or whatever it is you do.
“I really do not care at all.”
LOL
Obviously you do care or you wouldn’t keep replying to my posts.
I feel I am getting under your skin here…
I think I have found a new friend!
BTW katerina…that was what we like to call SARCASM.
sciolist = One who exhibits only superficial knowledge; a self-proclaimed expert with little real understanding
“define:sciolist”. google.
Ah in that case I apologise (something you don’t understand I realise but as a bigger person I am able to recognise when I am wrong.) I assumed that it was a typo as the rest of your posts are poorly written.
But I never said I was an expert – only that it was my best subject. You are the self proclaimed expert here. In fact, you are a self proclaimed expert in a number of things…Looks like your expertise hasn’t stopped you misunderstanding me…
Thanks btw…I shall augment my lexicon with this novel locution and endeavour to deploy it in orthodox dialogue
176. thanks Zloft. I know how to use google – I merely assumed (and made an ass out of myself as usual when I assume) it was a typo – an easy mistake to make on this site as it doesnt have a preview function and posts – mine included – are often riddled with typos. I admit it was my own preconceptions about HRH katerina that lead to this as well.
Superficial: concerned with or comprehending only what is apparent or obvious; not deep or penetrating emotionally or intellectually.
You think that accurately reflects my knowledge?
Degree level biology is not superficial by any definition of the word. Just because you are further up the education ladder than me, doesn’t necessarily make you more right or more intelligent. It just makes you older. I am teaching year 7 biology pupils that the cell is made up of a membrane, cytoplasm and a nucleus which is the ‘brain’ of the cell. That is ‘wrong’ but they believe it; does that make them stupid? No. It makes them further down the educational ladder than me.
Seriously bach your arrogance seems to know no bounds.
Fail. Epic Fail.
My Dad just died of this horrible disease on May 31st and its of disease of great suffering. I can only hope that a cure is found someday. I pray for the families of those who have passed on from this dreadful disease.
Amen to that.