Since the beginning of commercial aviation, thousands of planes have crashed all over the world, with tens of thousands of people injured or killed. When an air disaster strikes, sometimes pilots can’t react in time or do anything to prevent the final catastrophe despite heroic efforts to land their plane safely. Sometimes, though, pilots bring their stricken craft back to earth through a combination of skill and training and maybe some luck, with minimal or no casualties. The following is a selection of pilots and the disasters that they weathered under the most trying of circumstances. (Mistakes in terminology or crew names are my own.) If you know of a crash you feel should be listed, given the parameters outlined above (in other words, no crashes with complete destruction of the plane and total loss of life), please provide it in the comments.
Many of these examples are profiled on such shows as “Air Disaster” (also called “Mayday” and “Air Crash Investigation” and “Mayday: Catástrofes aéreas,” depending on the market) and “Seconds from Disaster.” Personally, I’ve been in one situation that could have been a disaster. My family and I were on a Japan-bound Northwest 747 leaving Minneapolis when one of the right engines flamed out on takeoff. The pilots circled the airport while dumping fuel to make the plane lighter and safe enough to land on three engines. I have a cool snapshot of the fuel dump.
Air crew: Pilot Min-Yuan Ho, Co-pilot Ju Yu Chang, Flight Engineer Kuo-Win Pei, Captain Chien-Yuan Liao, and Flight Engineer Shih Lung Su
During a late-night non-stop flight from Taipei to Los Angeles, the 747 lost power in one engine. The pilots, later found to be well past exhaustion from round-the-clock flying duties, made a series of minor mistakes that caused the jumbo jet to plunge 30,000 feet in 2 1/2 minutes. The g-forces of up to 5g caused serious damage to the aircraft and some injuries. Fortunately, the crew was able to right the heavily damaged plane and restart the faulty engine. They diverted to San Francisco and landed safely. The near-fatal plunge led to changes in the recommended rules governing how long a crew can fly without relief or rest.
Air crew: Captain Robert Pearson and First Officer Maurice Quintal
Another fuel-loss incident, this cross-Canada 767 ran out of fuel because of a series of front office bungling, a new type of fuel gage and other human errors, including failure to convert fuel equations with the metric system. With all power gone, the captain, an experienced glider, used every trick he could think of to bring the aircraft in for an emergency landing at an industrial airport in Gimli, Manitoba. The nose gear collapsed on touchdown, but none of the crew or passengers was seriously injured. The flight was later dubbed the “Gimli Glider.”
Air crew: Captain Eric Moody, Senior First Officer Roger Greaves and Senior Engineer Officer Barry Townley-Freeman
A 747 flight named The City of Edinburgh was en route from London to Auckland when the pilots inadvertently flew her through the ash cloud of Mount Galunggung, an Indonesian volcano. Lacking any moisture, the ash cloud did not show up on their radar screen. The ash shut down all four engines and the oxygen supply stopped working properly. With no engines, Moody put her in a steep, 6,000-foot dive to reach breathable air, then turned toward Jakarta for a possible water landing—all while gliding. Fortunately, after they cleared the ash cloud, the crew got the engines restarted and they landed safely in Jakarta. Fun fact: Captain Moody issued what’s justly called a “masterpiece of understatement” when he told passengers: “Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.”
Air crew: Captain Bryce McCormick and First Officer Peter Whitney
This DC-10 suffered explosive decompression when a cargo hatch blew out. Rapid decompression crumpled part of the cabin, damaged hydraulic controls, cut controls to the top engine and caused the rudder to stick at far right. Despite the severe damage to the aircraft, the pilots landed her safely with no loss of life. The cause of the accident was a faulty locking mechanism on the cargo bay door.
Air crew: Captain Eric Gennotte, First Officer Steve Michielsen and Flight Engineer Mario Rofail
“Fedayeen” scum fired a missile at this Airbus A300 cargo plane doing a rapid-climb takeoff from Baghdad airport. The missile hit the left wing, destroyed an engine and irreparably damaged all hydraulic systems. Without hydraulics, they could use only differential throttles to control the A300, whereby pilots gain a measure of lateral control through running one engine faster than the other, and a smidgen of horizontal control by increasing/decreasing speed. After experimenting for 10 minutes, the three-person crew turned the damaged craft around for a landing. They veered off the runway into soft sand, using only reverse thrust to stop the craft. Fascinating note: Capt. Gennotte got the idea to use differential throttles after attending a seminar given by Capt. Al Haynes, the pilot of United Airlines Flight 232 (see #2 below), who used the techniques when his aircraft lost all hydraulics.
Air crew: Captain David Cronin, First Officer Gregory Slader and Flight Engineer Randal Thomas
A cargo door failed on this 747-122 bound for New Zealand, causing explosive decompression. Nine passengers were killed and several injured. The crew lost some flight controls and fires started in engines 3 and 4. They took the 747 down to breathable air—the accident also destroyed the oxygen equipment —and turned the plane back to Honolulu. With only partial flaps, they landed successfully.
Air crew: Captain Robert Schornstheimer and First Officer Madeline “Mimi” Tompkins
This is probably one of the most well-known air disasters. This 737, bound for Honolulu, suffered serious structural damage when the top portion of the passenger cabin literally ripped off. Metal fatigue and corrosion from continual operation near salt water caused hairline fractures that eventually led to catastrophic structural failure. One crewmember was killed and about 65 people were injured. The pilots brought the heavily damaged craft down safely, despite not knowing whether the front landing gear had deployed correctly. It is absolutely amazing that the 737 stayed in the air.
Air crew: Captain Eduardo “Ed” Reyes, First Officer Jaime Herrera and Systems Engineer Dexter Comendador
An al Qaeda member planted a bomb aboard a Japan-bound Philippine Airlines 747. The explosion killed the passenger sitting directly over the bomb and injured several others. The blast also severed aileron controls, making steering all but impossible, with or without autopilot. The skillful crew managed to turn the aircraft through changing the trust to each engine and land the stricken craft safely on Okinawa. Historical note: After the failure of this plot, AQ scum turned to hijacking commercial jets to fly them into buildings — 9/11, of course — then later attempted another version of the bomb plot with several liquid compounds on several flights leaving England. That plot fortunately was uncovered before it could be executed.
Air crew: Captain Alfred C. Haynes, First Officer William Records and Second Officer Dudley Dvorak, flight engineer and DC-10 flight instructor Dennis Fitch (who was a passenger)
This tragic and heroic story is one of the most famous air crashes of all time, partly because it was caught on film. The fan blade in the DC-10’s tail engine disintegrated and completely shredded all hydraulic controls, including the redundant hydraulics. The flight crew maintained the barest amount of control using differential throttles, which flight instructor Fitch suggested they use. Together, they brought the DC-10 in for a crash landing at the Sioux City airport. With almost no control, their rate of descent and airspeed were far too high, but they made it down. The craft hit hard; the left wing smacked the ground, spilling fuel, which immediate ignited. Of the 296 on board, 111 died. As horrific as that sounds, it would have been a lot worse if not for the tremendous abilities of Haynes and his crew, and the large numbers of rescue personnel and National Guardsmen who just happened to be on scene. The clip is actual footage of the crash. Note that the plane didn’t actually tumble; that’s the wing you see flipping over, not the fuselage. Second note: Like many crashes, this one changed air safety regulations. Previously, infants were not required to have their own seats; passengers were told to place “lap children” on the floor in front of them in the event of a crash landing. One child was killed because of this, and now all passengers, regardless of age, are required to have a seat.
Air crew: Captain Chelsey “Sully” Sullenberger and First Officer Jeffrey B. Skiles
I placed this one first not because it’s the most recent, but because it was one of the most amazing crash landings ever made in a commercial airliner. This Airbus 320 struck a flock of geese minutes after leaving La Guardia, knocking out both engines. Capt. Sullenberger searched for a safe landing spot, but was unable to return to La Guardia or reach an airfield in New Jersey. Instead, he aimed for the Hudson River. He brought her down successfully, touching down with so much skill the Airbus held together and no one was seriously injured. A National Transportation Safety Board spokesperson called it “the most successful ditching in aviation history.” The Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators gave the rare Masters Medal award to “Sully” and his crew. You can find actual video of the crash landing on YouTube and elsewhere (mainly taken from security cameras), but the above-linked CGI rendering is highly useful because it shows what happened synched with the actual conversations between Capt. Sully and traffic control.
Notable Extras: Air Transat Flight 236, Azores Islands, Aug. 24, 2001
w00tz – Canadian eh? I remember when that particular incident happened myself.
Wow that footage from the hudson is pretty cool. I love the dirty NY accents from the control tower. I only say dirty cause thats where im from.
My next-door neighbor is a retired 747 pilot. He told me, after the Hudson River ditching, that on almost every transpacific and transatlantic flights someone would ask him nervously, as he walked through the cabin, can this plane land on the ocean, on water? He’d answer, “It sure can, but it can’t take off again.”
Steve T – that is priceless!
Great list STLMo – just a quick comment on the 28 th Nov. 1987 the SAA Boeing 747 244 Combi the Helderberg crashed into the sea just of the coast of Mauritius.
All passengers and crew perished.
SA. searched but could not find any pings in the area were the plane went down.
Now this amazes me the Yanks were asked to help, they sent 2 navy ships with a mini sub and retrieved the cockpit voice recorder – wait for this 5000 meters – 16000ft below the surface.
Air France said it was unlikely that the “boxes” would be found. ?
And that is +- 1500 swallower than the helderberg.
Thanks again – great list.
I was just thinking- I out of anyone (well, most people) should by all rights be terrified of flying. When I was ten I saw a small plane burst into flames and fall from the sky when I was at Airforce in Colorado. I’m not really clear on why that didn’t freak me out.
Until commercial planes become easier to fly, I personally do not want to be on a pilot-less flight. If something goes wrong, a person could at least attempt to fix it as they respond to the given situation as it occurs, something that a computer cannot do. Just my two cents.
Fascinating list, though some of these are quite tragic.
As some people have mentioned, there seem to be a lot of air tragedies or near misses this year. They are always in the news. It makes me wonder whether there are actually more air disasters this year, or if the amazing Hudson landing has just brought them to the forefront. I’ve been on about 10 flights in the last 6 months but they all went smoothly. I am not the least bit afraid of flying, but the Air France flight shook me up, I must admit.
How is this for bizarre and sad, though? An Italian woman who missed the Air France flight was killed in a car crash a few days later – http://www.fox2now.com/wghp-story-avoided-accident-crash-090611,0,4046081.story?track=rss
This crash happened in February this year, 11 people died of over 134 people on board. Turkish airliner crashing in Amsterdam.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_32385.aspx
And this one in Toronto, the plane skidded off the runway and down a cliff, burst into flames almost instantly, yet every single passenger and crew got out alive. Air France flight 358, with 309 people on board.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1123014388624_118423588/?hub=TopStories
@romerozombie (34): and @erikasoup (43): I couldn’t registar from the “Register tab at the top of the page either. I would get a blank page. Go to the bottom of this page and click on the “WorldPress.com VIP” link and go from there.
Being an Army aviator and being VERY familiar with tower talk, the #1 video with voice over gave me the chills. I can only applaud the professionalism of the aircrew and the tower personnel. Never, in my humble opinion, has an aircrew deserved more the honors and applause that the flight crew of 1549 received. I have heard some very chilling radio communications between Army OH58D pilots in theater and the local tower but that takes the cake.
Don’t know if this has been mentioned but there was a plane that got hijacked somewhere on the East Coast of Africa a while ago and the pilot needed to ditch in near the Comoros cause the hijakers wanted to get to Australia but the plane didnt have close to enough fuel. There’s footage of it landing near a beach somewhere on youtube.
is it just me or have there been an abnormal # of plane crashes in the last few months???
@Looser (72):
no. just more media coverage. we never hear about how many car accidents & fatalities there are each day in the nightly news.
daily automobile deaths due to accidents (2,360) far outnumber all the airline deaths & accidents in a year (900)!
rtr
@Mark (71):
Here is crash you mentioned in your comment
125 of the 175 passengers and crew aboard were killed
It shows the crash at the end of the clip
This makes me want to save up for a round the world trip by boat and train…
LOL at “i think he said he’s going in the hudson.”
I know this really isnt an airline crew but what about the people on United Flight 93 (the fourth plane that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11)? I mean those people deserve a spot on this list just as much, if not more, than any of these other crews. They took their own lives to save so many more on that fateful day…
WOW, amazing list, and im not just saying that kuz I graduate tomorrow as an Aerospace Engineer.
About the Hudson, the amount of Skill was amazing, so amazing our professor had a whole lecture on it and had it on the final.
To clarify, the pilot later claimed he thought he could make it to the airport, but didnt think it was worth risking even more life. Also in such crash landings, you usually have some sort of damage on the plane. This one has none, perfectly clean, its so amazing, especially since i dont know if anyone noticed but at landing a plane does a really long “flare” which is tail down and nose up. He has to do this until he is slow enough to put down the plane because if a wing hits the water at that speed, the fuselage tears apart.
this list could also have totally been expanded, there was united 93 for example.
was the repeated use of the word scum really needed?
Before I married my husband, I was always quite nervous about flying, even though I had to do a lot of it, in all kinds of planes, in all kinds of repair, in all sorts of weather (when you have to be at a shoot, you have to be at a shoot!).
Now, however, I am married to a man who was an Air Force Flight Engineer, a part of the cockpit crew, and who had his own ability to fly the big cargo planes the Air Force used to fly equipment from place to place. He could fly any of the planes being used today. So I always know that if we were ever in a situation where the cockpit crew were disabled, or required aid, he’d be there in a flash, saving the day.
ok
i know i’m going to get ripped on for this.
buuut..
“scum”? really? i think thats a bit too much.
they are a group of people fighting for a different set of rights and values than our own. their methods may be extreme but they are people. not scum.
First off, anyone mentioning Flight 93, PLEASE PLEASE read the introduction!
Second, sorry, but I used scum and I meant it. Anyone who thinks it’s A-OK to blow up airliners or highjack them and fly them into buildings is an enemy of all civilization and all that’s decent. And you know what? Hitler and the Nazis were people too. Would you complain if I called Nazis scum?
However much I hate to say it, munro, I kind of agree with you. That’s how guerrilla warfare is fought. Yes, it’s cheap, and yes, it’s *****ed up to target civilians in any form of combat. I doubt that anyone with any REAL pride in their nationality, religion, heritage, etc. would stand by and let someone else stomp on their ***** after being persecuted, much less fight back in a manner that’s considered ‘fair’. However, these people who are considered scum are generally known for targeting ANYONE who does not agree with their beliefs. If many of them had their way, there would be genocide of everyone who isn’t them. On the same note, there are plenty of ignorant Americans, and probably other western societies too, who believe that ALL Muslims should die, because most of these terrorist groups hold extreme Islamic beliefs. Couldn’t those lunatics be considered scum as well?
Great list, despite the spine tingly dingly implications.
Personally I’m not much of a fan of flying, but I’m required to fly about 5-10 times a year for work. It’s not that I freak out completely when I’m on board, I just feel very relieved when we touch down safely on arrival. But I get the same feeling when I arrive somewhere after a long road trip, so it’s not that concerning.
The courage shown by these pilots is very admirable
I always get a bit nervous when flying on airplanes, I usually get a window seat and watch the wings wiggle while flying, suspicious that they could fall off at any moment. I tend to make myself less nervous by making the people around me more nervous, by making fake alarm sounds and whispering that we’re going to die. This doesn’t work so well on normal commercial flights with people I don’t know, so I stick to this strictly when flying with fellow service members. I’m pretty sure suggesting that “*****, we’re gonna crash!” and screaming wildly when you hit turbulence in a commercial airliner is generally frowned upon, but is perfectly alright on military flights. Hope so, anyways. Haven’t gotten in trouble yet.
54 Foosinphisig
Actually, you’re quite wrong.
I flew from St. Louis, MO to Muscat, Oman with a 5 year old and an 8 month old. Both required their own seats as well as child safety seats. Not only that, but I was reminded constantly on every flight that my children were required to be belted at all times… meaning it was rather difficult for me to feed my infant daughter. It was the same on the reverse flight two years later with the same children. The only thing I can say is that the airlines were spectacularly kind to me offering nine kinds of assistance getting me to my connections and getting us on board the plane even before first class passengers.
As far as the list goes… it’s absolutely awesome. My darling husband has been in one Hercules C-130 crash where he lost three comerades (Jan 10, 1999 — pilot error landing at Al Jaber Air Base).
Ironically, when he finally called me, I hadn’t even heard about the crash. His first words to me were “First off, I’m ok”. I said, “what…where you in a plane crash” .. laughingly. When he said yes… I just about passed out. Then I turned on the news and saw footage of the landing in Al Jaber.
I still have the a copy of the first e-mail he sent to me describing in detail what happened and how he just prayed that God “make it quick” and “take care of my girls”. It’s covered in my tears where I’ve reread it many times and thank God for His Blessings.
I think we all think about the evitable every time we walk down a jetway.
Great list J.
I’m not sure if the airline involved or departure and arrival cities make a difference but I did NOT have to purchase a ticket for my 7 month old daughter when we flew from Tulsa to Phoenix in January of 2001. I was told children under 2 could ride on the lap of a parent or guardian. I will add that the airline and airport were very accomodating and helpful to me as well. I haven’t flown since so I’m not aware of the current regulations but the incident listed in #2 was in 1989, well before my flight.
Great list btw! I’ve always enjoyed flying, although I haven’t had many opportunities. I do get the chance this summer. Woohoo! Vacation, here I come.
@catchick (87):
why didn’t God bestow the same blessing upon the other three people with your husband that faithful day? i’m sure their families would be saying the very same thing even if you did loose your husband…which, thankfully for your young family, you did not. but what about those less fortunate?
i’m terribly confused on the whole “god blessed me” bit.
saw it on the news tonight, where a perp fleeing the cops plowed over 4 children trying to escape-killing two 7 year olds and a baby. the mother of the survivor was praising Jesus the whole time…what about the other mothers?
what about circumstance, skill, and good old fashioned fortuitous circumstance? (such as the surviving child being in the doorway of the patio instead of on the stairs? i don’t believe God placed the child there, she was simply getting a drink and coming out on the patio when the car careened into the stairs)
rtr
I just did some research and apparently, in the US, children under 2 years old are not required to have a seat for domestic flights only. I’m not sure what the rules are in other countries and I’m too tired to check.
Another comment I wanted to make was about the plane vs. car accident statistics. From what I understand, it is true that you are more likely to be in a car accident than a plane crash but plane crashes have higher fatality rates. Seems like I have a better chance in the car.
@ringtailroxy (89):
Was that really necessary?
Ok how bout the crew from the movie “Airplane”? They were heroic in a hilariously funny way…
@cheeshygirl (90):
“you are more likely to be in a car accident than a plane crash but plane crashes have higher fatality rates.”
how do you figure? most of us drive every day. for commuting, working students like myself, i travel >70 miles a day.
i fly about 3-6 times a year.
i thunk you may be referring to fender benders vs. falling out of the sky from 30,000 feet.
ever since i started school last year in downtown Miami, i seriously risk my life every day i drive I-95 downtown. nobody uses signals, people tailgate, and swerve across several lanes at once. damn third world drivers.
rtr
@cheeshygirl (91):
maybe not. but why is it always okay for others to say something about their belief system, but not okay for me to question it?
the way i see it, if you lay it out there, be prepared to hear others question it.
and be capable of discussing it. nobody is being insulting, derogatory, or rude. just curious.
i love to hear other opinions & beliefs-as well as the reasoning (or lack thereof) for it.
rtr
89 ringtailroxy
First off, I do not presume to know the heart of God. I do not know what reasons He had for not forsaking death to those three unfortunates. Perhaps he saved them from something more horrible in their future than instant death during a plane crash.
I do answer your comment to stir up a religious debate, but I don’t understand your “confusion” at me feeling blessed. My husband survived. I and my children were blessed. It does not mean I do not feel sympathy for those that lost their lives.
As a matter of fact, I had a violent published argument with an, I believe, Air Force officer via the Air Force Times who thought the pilot shouldn’t have been punished.
And what’s most disturbing to me at this moment… is that I recently, as in a few days ago, tried to find information regarding this crash online. There is no footage of the plane crash available. There is no outcome of the Courts Martial on the pilot or co-pilot. Everything available to the public online only details a brief outline of the crash and the coming courts marshall. If it was carried out, I cannot find nothing of it. It was commuted to an Article 15 (non-judiciary punishment), I can still find nothing of it. If there was ever a memorial service of any kind for those airmen who lost their lives, I can find nothing of it. That, I find, is just as disturbing as the plane crash itself.
I meant to say that I do NOT answer your comment to stir up a religious debate…
Durn it, J …. we need an edit button!!!!
Why does everything have to turn into a religion debate. Isn’t everyone tired of this, already?
I didn’t know we were debating.
I was simply stating my faith and my beliefs. You most certainly needn’t read or comment on any comments that you feel lend to religious debate.
Deep, in-depth philosophical conversations are what lead to debate.. none of which my comments contain. Only what I feel regarding this particular list and how it affects and relates to my own personal experiences.
i would complain if you were to call nazis scum. many of the people who were ‘nazis’ during hitler’s rule were forced into the party or the army under fear of exile or imprisonment. hitler – the man, the person – was twisted. but not scum. he was still human.
the british would’ve called american colonists scum during the revolution. doesn’t mean they were. just fighting for a different set of rights.
just choose your words better.
they’re people too. just trying to do what they feel is necessary. whether or not its right or wrong.
one man’s terrorist is another man’s revolutionary.
Ringtailroxy, I will say what most others are thinking…your an idiot!!
Catchick, great story!!
Take Care.
I wasn’t so much talking to you… You said you felt blessed and someone had to come along and poke at your belief. It irritates me that when anytime someone mentions they felt blessed or something along those lines, no atheist can let it rest without piping up with an implication that it’s crazy.
(sigh) Now look what I’ve done… I have stirred the pot.
Ooops- I meant to say that was at catchick!
no worries Nicosia… nope .. no pot-stirring done. The kettle is empty as far as I’m concerned. I refuse to argue or debate regarding my beliefs as they stand with regards to the story that I’ve mentioned. My.. don’t I sound all legalese…???
And you’re right… mention God and most atheists will explode… demanding that we shut the conversation down or accept that we are wrong… poor critters.
Thank you Devon. I appreciate your support.
I am, I will admit, more concerned than ever regarding the outcome of my husband’s “adventure”. I have thought of getting on a phone and asking questions… but when the military is concerned.. sometimes it seems best to let sleeping dogs lie….
To #’s 18 & 29, both incompressible I think
to#92-lmao!
I’d like to point out that the Gimli Glider-bless her crew-actually landed on a decommissioned armed forces airport. The local drag racing either rented or bought it and used the runway for…well you.
Incidentally; the closing of the base had a dramatic impact on the local economy of Gimli and the citizens petitioned the Candian Gov’t to keep it open but to no avail.
Sorry…getting long winded here…
drag racing club I meant…I get ahead of myself sometimes
You missed this flight:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236
Still the commercial flight that glided from longest (19m without fuel) and safetly landed.
Munro – your point is taken, but by and large, I don’t bow to moral relevance. “One man’s terrorist is another man’s revolutionary,” which has been propagated for a long time, falls falt with me. Sure, they’re human, but their cause is also reprehensible, and their means are repulsive.
This isn’t a “let’s agree to disagree” moment, either. If the civilized world can’t unequivically condemn the actions of AQ or Nazis AND hold the members of AQ and the Nazi party in utter contempt for what they do/did, then civilization is meaningless. Even if I do understand their desires and goals, I want them stopped, permanently, by any means necessary by the lawful governments of this world.
106 – no I didn’t. Please see comment #49.
Not exactly heroic, but in 1982 a 707 landed in the Nile river in Khartoum, Sudan after mistaking it for a runway. I don’t believe there were any deaths, and I have heard anecdotally from sources in Khartoum that after the crash, the pilots and crew just swam to shore and went home. http://www.theroadtothehorizon.org/2008/10/rumble-river-nile-darned-good-place-to.html
I remember watching an episode of Air Crash Investigation that I’m almost sure was about #2. As I recall it, many other pilots were subsequently tested in flight-simulators to see if they could have done as well given the same conditions.
And not a single one of them could.
Balls of titanium on that pilot.
Even though 111 died, I still think that should be #1.
@catchick (98):
i am not trying to ‘stir the pot’
it just amazes me that those who believe feel it necessary to ‘song His praises’ every chance they get. as for deep, in depth philosophical discussions lead into debate, what is more deep & in depth than our own belief system?
i am extremely interested in religious belief and how people justify them. i find it an amazingly complex aspect of human nature. yes, i am a strong atheist. but i respect and an even a little jealous of those with strong faith. it’s something i cannot experience, but i do not ever insult, down, or degrade those who do. i simply…
question everything.
also, it’s very unnerving the lack of any coverage of the incident you describe. i’m sure it’s a source of frustration for you and your husband. although it may be a safe bet to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’ as you say concerning military affairs, that is where we dramatically differ. i could not, would not, can not stand by why any injustice or cover up of such a tragic event is underway…
please understand that i am not an idiot or looking for a fight. it is very difficult to speak openly about my lack of faith, and yet it is always more socially acceptable for those of faith to interject their beliefs or reasoning in everyday conversation.
i am absolutely certain you are thankful your hubby survived, and your family is together. i admire all military personnel…i certainly couldn’t do it.
@Devon in Canada (100):
i am not an idiot. quite the contrary. i did not insult anyone, unless they took my attempt at reasoning as an insult, which is highly narcissistic in my opinion.
i am currently a college student, work in oncology, and also manage to still have fun and be relatively attractive.
don’t know about you though. you seem like a newbie.
rtr
Firstly – Devon in Canada? Quit giving our country a bad name by name calling. We’re supposed to be friendly eh? She didn’t insult anyone, she’s simply asking a question while being quite civil and respectful. Some folks see fortuitous events as a blessing, some see them as circumstance and coincidence.
I have to take issue at the comment mentioning that atheists “explode” at the mention of God. It’s not God that confuses us, it’s the smug sense of superiority that believers get while they claim to know more about how the world works. You don’t know any more about what happens after we die than I do, despite your beliefs.
If your faith comforts you and gives you a road map by which to live your life, then more power to you. Most of us atheists enjoy figuring things out for ourselves. If your Good Book and its interpretations teach you to be a kind, caring, moral person, all the better. There are some great lessons in there. What I don’t understand is those people (and by saying this I’m not presuming catchick is one of them) who need that fear of “Hell” in order to make them follow reasonable morals. Most atheists just do this on their own accord.
And to CurtScmurt – another Manitoban named Curt eh? If I’m not mistaken, they often use the Gimli airport for skydiving flights too!
@Devon in Canada (100): This seems rather harsh. It’s perfectly understandable that catchick would feel blessed after almost loosing her husband as discribed in this comment: @catchick (87): But in support of ringtailroxy, what I don’t care for are when movie stars or athletes thank God for winning some award or some compitition. As if God would care who wins the Oscar or some sporting event; all while children are starving somewhere in the world, or a young soilder is dying in a war somewhere. It’s as if God’s chearing on Team A over team B. Puh-lease.
@Bert (112):
thanks! i find a nice Canadian boy here, eh? if you ever find yourself in Fort Lauderdale, let me know and we’ll have a drink!
we get lots of ‘snowbirds’ in South Florida each year. We love you! i especially love the open-minded grey hairs that strut it allout at the nude beach, the French-Canadian;s love of crepes (which the other 160 days a year serve excellent breakfast!), and the game they all play with the silver ball & pins…kinda like bowling?
@Moonbeam (113):
“What I don’t care for are when movie stars or athletes thank God for winning some award or some compitition.”
i wholeheartedly agree! it always makes me grit my teeth when an athlete thanks God or Jesus…because it wasn’t God that put in all those grueling hours at the gym, the early morning practices, the money & sweat & blood inot the goal…it was YOU. all YOU. yup. so take that moment of pride and thank YOURSELF! (for no one can do very much alone)
rtr
STLMo: oooh. i like your style. very precise. very correct. i have to say i agree with you that their actions are reprehensible.
i still don’t agree with the derogatory choice of wording. i suppose i’ve taken a much more psychological, individual approach to the subject of terrorism and i guess “moral irresponsibility of the individual”.
anyways. excellent list.
ringtailroxy: seriously? more media coverage? you mean to tell me that airline jets go down more often than what we’ve been hearing about in the news!????!!! you arent helping your “its safer to fly than it is to drive” cause!!!
and to pitch in to the religious argument its not about wether God is rooting for team a or team b its about thanking God for the talents he has given you that have enabled you to win. (if you are about to write an angry post please reread my comment with a more kind and soothing voice in mind)
And STLMo: its not a matter of moral relevance but rather perspective. Hitlers subjects saw him as a minor deity (hyperbole here) but the jews knew what he really was: a criminal. You see sometimes the side you are fighting for affects your judgement and perspective but certainly not what is true and what isnt true! And i COMPLETELY agree w/ you: MORAL RELATIVISM SUCKS!
these are btw my humble opinions and not to be thought of as facts hopefully that goes w/ out saying tho
@Looser (116):
maybe my wording was faulty…
what i meant to say was that the media hardly covers any of the thousands of fatalities due to auto accidnets that occur daily.
but one plane accident and it’s news for four days straight!
rtr