Top 10 Bizarre Relationships
Published on January 21, 2008 - 88 Comments
[WARNING: this list contains images that are of an adult nature] Throughout history there have been many unusual relationships and love affairs. Some may seem normal by today’s standards, but in their time caused great controversy. This is a list of the top 10 bizarre relationships.
10. Allen and Previn
In 1978, at the age of eight, Soon-Yi Previn was adopted by Mia Farrow and her then-husband Andre Previn who were on vacation in Korea. In 1980, when Soon-Yi was 10, Farrow began a long-term relationship with Woody Allen which lasted 12 years. In 1992, Farrow found naked photographs of Soon-Yi in Allen’s apartment and subsequently discovered that the two had been having a romantic relationship (at the time she was 22 and Allen was 56). Allen parted ways with Farrow and married Soon-Yi in 1997. Both of Allen’s biological children refused to see him. Allen and Previn have two adopted daughters.
9. Wilde and Douglas
In 1891, Oscar Wilde was introduced to the twenty-two-year-old Lord Alfred Douglas, an undergraduate at Oxford at the time and son of the 9th Marquess of Queensberry. The two began an intimate relationship which may have involved sexual relations, though Douglas later denied that this was the case. In the course of the relationship, for sexual satisfaction, Wilde would look on while Douglas entertained other young men for the pleasure of Wilde. The Marquess eventually found out about this “scandalous” relationship and sued Wilde and after a series of arguments between the two, Wilde took him to court. The case failed and Wilde was eventually charged with gross indecency and was sentenced to two years of hard labor. After he was released on May 19, 1897 he spent his last three years penniless, in self-imposed exile from society and artistic circles.
8. Caligula and Drusilla
Drusilla was Emperor Caligula’s favorite sister. When he became Emperor it is believed that he ordered her to divorce her husband after which she became his lover. She most likely had a great deal of influence over Caligula. When she died in 38 AD, he never recovered from the loss. He buried his sister with the honors of an Augusta, acted as a grieving widower, and had the Roman Senate declare her a Goddess as “Diva Drusilla”, deifying her as a representation of the goddess Venus or Aphrodite. Drusilla was consecrated as Panthea, most likely on the anniversary of the birthday of Augustus.
7. Lincoln and Speed
In 1837, Abraham Lincoln (aged 28) met Joshua Fry Speed (aged 23) when Lincoln moved to Springfield Illinois to set himself up as a lawyer. Lincoln tried to buy a bed from Speed’s store on credit, but Speed offered to share his room and bed instead. Previously Speed had heard the young Lincoln speak on the stump when Lincoln was running for election to the Illinois legislature, but the two men had exchanged only bits of conversation. The two ended up having a lifelong friendship, and upon the death of Lincoln, Speed and other members of his family put up funding to create a Lincoln Memorial. The bizarre nature of this relationship is not that the two shared a bed, but that it is an example of a now extinct version of “Romantic Friendship” - a term that described an intimate, but non-sexual relationship between two people. Romantic Friendships were very common until the mid to late 19th century when homosexuality was beginning to be defined. Other famous examples of Romantic Friendship are William Shakespeare and his “Fair lord”, and Emily Dickinson and Sue Gilbert.
6. The Tomainis
Al Tomaini was a giant who claimed a height of 8′4″ (though the Guiness Book of Records stated that he was 7′4″). Weighing 356 pounds (162 kg) and wearing size 27 shoes, Al spent most of his life as a circus giant. He was working with a circus at the Great Lakes Exposition in Chicago, in 1936, when he met his future wife, Jeanie Tomaini. Jeanie was born without legs and was only 2 ft 6 in (76 cm) tall. After retiring from the circus life, he and Jeanie settled in the circus community of Giant’s Camp, Gibsonton, Florida.
5. Verlaine and Rimbaud
In 1871, Arthur Rimbaud - a budding young poet - (aged 16) travelled to Paris at the invitation of Paul Verlaine (a highly regarded French Symbolist Poet). When Rimbaud arrived in Paris, Verlaine fell in love with him and the two began a turbulent relationship which lead to the breakup of Verlaine’s marriage. During absinthe and hashish influenced nights, the two scandalized Paris with their obscene behaviour and violence. At one point, whilst drunk on Absinthe, Rimbaud stabbed Verlaine in the hand. The two moved to England and eventually Brussels. On the morning of 10 July, Verlaine bought a revolver and ammunition. That afternoon, “in a drunken rage,” Verlaine fired two shots at Rimbaud, one of them wounding the 18-year-old in the left wrist. Eventually Rimbaud asked the police to arrest Verlaine, and he was sent to jail for two years. The two met again only once and at age 21, Rimbaud stopped writing. He is now considered to be one of the most influential French poets in history.
4. Stuebing and Karolewski
Patrick Stuebing is a man living in Leipzig, Germany, who has recently been the centre of a heated debate around incest, due to his relationship with his biological sister, Susan Karolewski, since 2001. The relationship has so far spawned four children of whom only one, Sofia, remains with the couple. Patrick, an unemployed locksmith, was adopted and, as a child, lived in Potsdam. He did not meet his mother and biological family until he was 23. Today he and Susan share a small flat in an east German tower block on the outskirts of Leipzig. Incest is a criminal offence in Germany. Patrick Stuebing has already served a two-year sentence for committing incest. In 2004, Patrick voluntarily underwent a vasectomy.
3. The Bunkers and The Yateses
Chang and Eng Bunker were conjoined twins born in Siam (their condition and place of birth created the term “Siamese Twins”). They were joined at the sternum by a small piece of cartilage. Their livers were fused but independently complete. Although 19th century medicine did not have the means to do so, modern surgical techniques would have easily allowed them to be separated today. The two became American Citizens and became respected members of the community, owning a plantation and slaves. On April 13, 1843, they married two sisters: Chang to Adelaide Yates and Eng to Sarah Anne Yates. Chang and his wife had ten children; Eng and his wife had twelve. In time, the wives squabbled and eventually two separate households were set up just west of Mount Airy, North Carolina in the community of White Plains – the twins would alternate spending three days at each home. The twins died on the same day in 1874.
2. Nero and Sporus
Suetonius (c. 69AD - 130AD) wrote that the Emperor Nero fell in love with a young boy, Sporus, and loved him so deeply that he tried to make a woman of him:
He castrated the boy Sporus and actually tried to make a woman of him; and he married him with all the usual ceremonies, including a dowry and a bridal veil, took him to his home attended by a great throng, and treated him as his wife. And the witty jest that someone made is still current, that it would have been well for the world if Nero’s father Domitius had that kind of wife. This Sporus, decked out with the finery of the empresses and riding in a litter, he took with him to the courts and marts of Greece, and later at Rome through the Street of the Images, fondly kissing him from time to time.
As bizarre as that sounds, there is another even more bizarre relationship:
1. Dumas and dos Santos
Jean (or Juan) Baptista dos Santos is said to have been a “Gipsey”, born in Faro, Portugal around 1843, to normal parents with two other normal children. He possessed two functioning penises and three scrota, the outer two of which each contained a single testis. Dos Santos claimed that the central scrotum had also contained a pair of fully-formed testes, but that these had retreated into his abdomen when he was ten years old. He also had a third leg. Fortunately for dos Santos, at the same time there lived in Paris a women named Blanche Dumas who had four breasts and two vaginas (and also a third leg). Dumas was working as a high class prostitute. Dos Santos travelled to Paris and it is believed that the two had a torrid affair.
Bonus: Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson involved in any relationship is bizarre. Enough said.
This article uses material from the Wikipedia articles: Patrick Stuebing.
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1. StewWriter - January 21st, 2008 at 5:57 am
Jamie, the Lincoln and Jackson pics are HYSTERICAL! Outstanding!
2. jfrater - January 21st, 2008 at 5:58 am
Stew: Thanks
3. cparker - January 21st, 2008 at 6:49 am
Another fine example of the always perplexing Emporer’s Caligula and Nero
4. lola - January 21st, 2008 at 7:08 am
Super interesting list. I wish there was a bigger and clearer picture of number 1 Blanche Dumas.
5. sue - January 21st, 2008 at 8:04 am
OMG my eyes!!!!! Great list,but lets try and do without Micheal Jackson from now on,PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. sue - January 21st, 2008 at 8:11 am
And that woody allen and his daughter thing is really disgusting
7. jfrater - January 21st, 2008 at 8:12 am
lola: me too - it was the best I could find alas.
sue: I agree about Woody - and as for Michael Jackson - I sometimes feel the need to add him to a list - it is the same feeling you are up very high and feel drawn to the edge of a cliff - so so wrong but such a strong urge!
8. mortem - January 21st, 2008 at 8:13 am
lmao! Michael Jackson!
The Bunker brother’s story is also amazing!! Haha I mean, 12 and 10 children respectively? Man, it should have been weird having sex while the other one just stood there and watched.
9. jfrater - January 21st, 2008 at 8:19 am
mortem: heh - I suspect the other one had to *lie* there and watch
They are lucky to have lived so long - many siamese twins don’t.
10. jwbm2525 - January 21st, 2008 at 9:11 am
hmm… one could really wonder about the “positions” that Dumas and dos Santos could utilize.
11. MzFly - January 21st, 2008 at 9:11 am
Cool/weird/distrubing list. Great Stuff! I had never heard of #1, but after seeing the pic I thought twice before reading it.
12. Kristin - January 21st, 2008 at 9:22 am
Wow…………..great pic of Michael Jackson! Him even being alive is just bizarre! Love the list, keep up the good work!
13. Kristin - January 21st, 2008 at 9:23 am
By the way, #1 kinda makes me want to throw up, along with #4 and #10!
14. Yikkity - January 21st, 2008 at 9:44 am
Four breast..two vaginas? And an extra leg! No wonder she was a high class prostitute. She was putting in a lot of work.
15. StewWriter - January 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am
Jamie, curious: was rocker/pianist Jerry Lee Lewis and his cousin being married not quite odd enough? I suppose compared to the whack jobs on this kick-ass list, maybe not…
16. JWJWBEAN - January 21st, 2008 at 9:56 am
I had heard of Dos Santos (maybe even from another one of your lists), but I had never heard of Dumas. That is a very interesting hook up there. No pun intended (okay so maybe it was intended).
I am wondering if the brother and sister in #4 is the reason for the push to give adopted children more information about their biological families. I thought it was a case in Britain about twins and the same thing happening where they didn’t know they were related and fell in love…
17. JWJWBEAN - January 21st, 2008 at 9:59 am
Kristin: #4 and #10 make you want to throw up a little bit, but #8 doesn’t? What is written here is almost an understatement of his obsession with his sister.
18. chsrocket47 - January 21st, 2008 at 10:25 am
you could also put tom cruise and katie holmes on here too
19. jfrater - January 21st, 2008 at 10:32 am
Stew: Marriage to the first cousin only marginally increases risk of child defects - it is legal in many countries, therefore, not bizarre
I believe Guiliani also married a first cousin but it was annulled - I might be wrong though.
20. mrbizmark - January 21st, 2008 at 10:50 am
James Buchanan (15th president) also had a “romantic friendship” and never married.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.....ationships
21. Andie_Girl9 - January 21st, 2008 at 11:25 am
Another weird one: Anyone dumb enough to marry Bush. Sorry, I have strong opinions toward him.
-Andrea Carlena Beauman
22. Dr. Goodtimes - January 21st, 2008 at 11:46 am
Can you imagine if Dumas and dos Santos lived in today’s society the sales their homemade porno tape would generate? They’d put Pam & Tommy to shame.
23. heavybison - January 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
#3: Imagine having a dead body attached to you for hours…lucky he died the same day…
Finally a gr8 list to herald the return of JF.
Welcome back man!!
24. SubliminalDeath666 - January 21st, 2008 at 12:17 pm
What about David Letterman and Julia Roberts? I heard they were married for like a month.
25. Blogball - January 21st, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Wow 4 breasts and an extra leg.
If someone could breed a chicken like that they could make a fortune.
Another interesting list by the way.
26. Martin L - January 21st, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Heavy Bison: as a matter of fact, I recall reading a little more of the Chang and Eng tale. I think Eng was the first to go, sickening and dying in the morning, so that, yes, his brother was attached to a corpse, and mourned the whole day before succumbing around sunset. Allegedly of grief, though I’m sure (ech!) septicemia had something to do with it.
27. jfrater - January 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm
blogball: hahah
28. jfrater - January 21st, 2008 at 1:37 pm
heavybison: thanks
It is good to be back in charge!
29. heavybison - January 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm
#Blogball: LOL!! You shld really consider writing for Letterman/Leno or somethin’ dude…
30. Palrao - January 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I’m a huge fan of your lists. I come by here everyday yearning to see any new lists you may have put here. Congratulations.
As for this one…talk about strange!!!
Just one thing…maybe he was really Juan due to Spanish family, but if Dos Santos was really portuguese it is very likely that he was called João, rather than Juan. I’m portuguese, hence my being picky,lol.
31. jfrater - January 21st, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Palrao: I do believe you are correct - I used the standard English version of the name but I am sure I have seen him referred to as João.
32. petey mcgee - January 21st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
what about Kenneth Pinyan and the equine world?
(sorry couldn’t resist)
33. Nelia - January 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Just to be clear… Did this German guy meet his biological family KNOWING they were his biological family, then start the relationship with his sister? Or did he start the relationship and find out later? I got the impression from the way it was written that he knew she was his sister when they got together.
Which would be super weird.
Ew.
34. jfrater - January 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pm
petey mcgee: hahahaha - it didn’t even cross my mind while writing this list!
35. JWJWBEAN - January 21st, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Nelia: I guess he did. Here is one article about it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....ge_id=1879
36. Monique - January 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
What is so weird or “bizzare” about #1. They say there is someone made by God for everyone. In that case these two were perfect for one another. They both had multiple sex organs so that really makes them the perfect match. And they both had a third leg, that really solidifies them as being a match made in heaven. How many other people existed at that time that could relate to them as well as they could together?
37. Cat Skyfire - January 21st, 2008 at 2:38 pm
On Chang and Eng - The second brother died because they did share a blood connection. One heart stopped pumping and the living heart wasn’t enough to force it through two bodies.
The Lincoln and Speed: I liked that one. We tend to forget that it was not uncommon in the past for people of the same gender to share a bed just because it was a bed. Most early senators shared rooming houses and beds before going to the capitol. And it wasn’t uncommon for strangers to share a bed on a long journey, because it beat the floor.
38. riledupone - January 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm
The Woody Allen thing really creeps me out. Since it happened I have refused to watch any Woody Allen movies. Blecchhhh!
39. Mom424 - January 21st, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Welcome home Jamie….Great List as usual
Number 1 is the most disturbing, How can anyone have sexual feelings for someone they raised since childhood? He has to be some sort of sicko….
Also bed sharing was common before the days of decent central heating…
Also with #4, they met too late in life for the natural aversion to sex with family to be ingrained,,(this is a genetic strategy for healthy offspring, happens not only with humans but animals as well), although Caligula proves that you can overcome anything if you’re perverted enough…
40. FifthSonata - January 21st, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Is that Michael Jackson photo actually real? Someone please tell me that’s not real…
41. Judit - January 21st, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Wow!! Fantastic list! Very bizarre, and very interesting!
42. Kelsi - January 21st, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Haha, possible candidate for best list EVER. I bet dos Santos’ tailor made tons of money just making pants for the poor guy. I really got a kick out of this one, J. Great list. =)
43. copperdragon - January 21st, 2008 at 9:33 pm
here’s my vote for Lisa Marie Presley and Michael Jackson (as a couple). truly bizarre!!
44. Ozhan - January 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 am
About #4:
They have a relationship since 2001. In 2004 Patrick voluntarily underwent a vasectomy. The relationship has so far spawned four children.
—
I say they are fast
45. shaunism - January 22nd, 2008 at 3:40 am
I don’t see what’s so bizarre about Wilde and Douglas…
46. Shabab - January 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 am
Eww…When i saw woody on the top of the list i said to myself “surely, nothing could be bizzar-er than this”…Well, needless to say i stand corrected and ofcourse grossed out
also, evry time i burn a disk now ill think of that wierdo paedophile…Thanks
47. jfrater - January 22nd, 2008 at 4:08 am
shaunism: the weird aspect was the fact that Douglas had sex with other men for Wilde’s pleasure - rather than having sex with Wilde directly.
48. shaunism - January 22nd, 2008 at 4:46 am
jfrater: Re: Wilde and Douglas: Oh dear! If that’s your bar for ‘bizarre’ sexual behaviour, you need to live in Manhattan for a few years!
49. Mav - January 22nd, 2008 at 4:54 am
X Effing D @ the Jackson one.
50. jfrater - January 22nd, 2008 at 4:57 am
shaunism: hah - it was shocking for its time
Obviously these days virtually anything goes!
51. Shabab - January 22nd, 2008 at 5:44 am
What abt that guy who married a rock?
Or a woman who married a dolphin?
Im not talking about bestiality but ppl who actually love animals n objects enough to take them as partners over humans
52. srichards - January 22nd, 2008 at 5:45 am
hey guys its not nice to make fun of Michael
53. shaunism - January 22nd, 2008 at 6:41 am
Shabab: Have you heard of the “real dolls”? Life-like, life-sized dolls people enter into ‘relationships’ with? There was a whole documentary on it here in the UK - very interesting and odd. Check it out if you can.
54. nikita - January 22nd, 2008 at 8:09 am
how do i begin…i am not here to argue, berate, or talk down to everyone that’s posted a comment, but i do have a question. how could people make judgement calls based on a picture and a paragraph? but more than that, why do the posters feel it necessary to tell us what they think? did someone ask? is that what these top 10, 15, 20 list sites are for? to inform, entertain, incite etc? or are they a joke? what is the motivation? and i would like to see posted by____ followed by age of poster____.
i know my post will offend some of the people, and it’s just my opinion, but if you are kids, then i understand, but i truly fear for my future, because you will be in charge of the country. and with such a critical, narrow minded, shoot from the, guilty until proven innocent, set of values. we are doomed!
post on haters, i don’t care because i wont be reading your insults.
55. jwbm2525 - January 22nd, 2008 at 9:11 am
Nikita: First of all, this is one of the most “mature” forums that I have seen on the web. Have you ever seen some of the comments on ebaums? I refuse to post there because of the inmature nature on that site! Obviously you don’t understand what a forum is about or what the internet is about. One of the greatest things about the internet is that people can remain anonamyous! Yes, this does attract some inmaturity and haters, but for the most part, it is a good thing. No one should have to tell their age, and I guarantee that most of these people are not kids. I, for one, am over 30 and have 2 children.
As far as being critical and narrow minded, I don’t feel that the majority of these comments are narrow minded or critical. You might want to check your dictionary for the definition of OPINION.
56. jwbm2525 - January 22nd, 2008 at 9:13 am
shaunism: it’s called guys and dolls, you can view it here: http://www.moviesfoundonline.c....._dolls.php
It is somewhat disturbing, but interesting at the same time.
57. JOE BLACKK - January 22nd, 2008 at 9:15 am
Dumas and Dos Santos….those 2 were tailor made for each other!!!!! their video would have been better than pam and tommy lees’s lmao!!! the possibilities are endless!!
58. michelley - January 22nd, 2008 at 9:15 am
i’m 21, and i don’t take what you say as an insult just hypocritical. everyone has an opinion on everything. internet is a great way to put your opinion out there, hence why you decided to put yours out there with this post. if you’re really so annoyed by it, i suggest not going to sites like this. or simply just not read the comments.
59. shaunism - January 22nd, 2008 at 9:21 am
jwbm2525: Wow, great! Thank you! I have been wanting to show that to a couple people. Cheers!
60. KdK - January 22nd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
You obviously never heard about the Swedish lady, who consider herself married to the Berlin Wall..
http://www.berlinermauer.se/
61. Troyez - January 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
The Abraham Lincoln thing is bulls**t. Just another piece of revisionist history (tripe). You might want to do a bit of research before you post such slander, especially when the person in question is not able to defend himself.
62. jfrater - January 22nd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Troyez: here is a site on Kentucky History that agrees completely with what I said above: http://kentuckyexplorer.com/no.....02058.html - wikipedia also has a lot to say on it in both the topic for Speed and Lincoln, as well as a separate article on Lincoln’s sexuality.
63. shaunism - January 23rd, 2008 at 2:25 am
Troyez: Re: Lincoln: I have heard about similar thoughts/conclusions about Lincoln from other places, so I couldn’t discount it so quickly.
But besides, why would he need to ‘defend’ himself about such a relationship? Thinking he does points out more what you think about the relationship than the relationship itself.
64. drogo - January 23rd, 2008 at 3:23 am
The people hating Woody Allen must have missed Soon-Yi’s TV interview. She stated that she was too old and mature to ever consider Allen as a father figure. Andre Previn will always be her father. She said that as soon as she met Woody Allen she thought he was cute and witty and felt romantic feelings toward him, but had to consider him her mother’s boyfriend, then husband. Since Soon-Yi was quite mature, Allen never bonded with her as a father figure. Allen’s biggest crime is that he cheated on Mia.
65. Tardly - January 23rd, 2008 at 9:48 am
Troyez, i think starting an illegal war that killed more americans than any other, then trying to deport every black in america trumps a little gay trist in the scandal department.
66. Bananas - January 23rd, 2008 at 5:05 pm
do you really beleive the Lincoln stuff????
67. Troyez - January 23rd, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Well Shaunism,
I was talking about Lincoln being able to defend himself from being labeled as “gay,” when he was not.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/.....y.asp?pg=1
68. jfrater - January 23rd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Troyez: I did not label Lincoln as gay - I do not believe he was. I was referring to the “Romantic Friendship” he had with another man - these were very common in those days and did not involve sex - it was a type of relationship that started to disappear after people began defining the genres of sexuality - due to the fear that you might be labelled homosexual when you were not. Obviously I did not make that clear in the list.
69. shaunism - January 24th, 2008 at 2:37 am
Troyez: As was I.
70. Drogo - January 24th, 2008 at 3:17 am
OMG, Abraham Lincoln was gay…..NOT that there is anything wrong with THAT!…
(a Seinfeld reference)
71. Jeremy - January 24th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
wow, what a coincidence!
A man with two penises meets a chick with two vaginas. That makes me laugh.
I bet the twin’s wives were competing on who could have the most kids.
72. Vicky - January 24th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
I think the brother and sister thing, while pretty freaky, isn’t as gross as it could be because they didn’t actually grow up as siblings.
73. Dan A - January 26th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Troyez: SLANDEROUS to be accused of being gay? And he must DEFEND HIMSELF from being labelled as gay. Do you hear yourself? The message you are conveying is that you’re anti-gay. Who cares if Lincoln was gay or not? Who cares if he had a “Romantic Friendship?” I think the world would be a better place if people could allow themselves to have strong feelings for other people, regardless of gender, and express them in a natural way. Instead we deny these feelings, and put on macho airs to avoid these kind of deep friendships. I think that’s pretty sick.
74. Troyez - January 26th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
What I am saying, Dan A.,
Is that Abe Lincoln was not homosexual, and that it is slanderous to label him as such. He is not here to defend himself from any accusations. I am not calling anyone names. It seems that gays like to call people who do not agree with their lifestyle choice, “homophobic.” And in this society (U.S.), if you disagree with someone’s beliefs on homosexuality, you are a bigot; remember the 1st Amendment, it discusses freedom of speech, and assures my right to voice my disagreement with you, Dan.
The whole reason I posted on here was because the blog creator did not include all the facts. I also posted a link:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/.....y.asp?pg=1
It seems that some people do not want to see the truth staring them in the face.
75. Dan A - January 26th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Because the weekly standard is a non-biased news source. Please..
Anyway, as far as being labelled a bigot…
“…gays like to call people who do not agree with their lifestyle choice homophobic.”
If the pointy little shoe fits…
I do not deny your right to voice your opinion, I think that you are wrong, and I am voicing my opinion. I think you are a bigot, and that is my opinion. I think you are homophobic, and that is my opinion.
What rubs me the wrong way, as a gay man, is that you people (bigots) try to stand up and tell me about my “lifestyle choice.” It doesn’t matter how many times I tell you, and others tell you that it is NOT a choice, you still know better don’t you? You’re the expert, huh?
The only CHOICE I made was not to deny who I am. I didn’t want to be gay at first, but I could not change it, and so I accepted that I was not the pervert and horrible human being that you people (homophobic bigots) tried to make me think that I was. I have accepted myself, and I now am quite happy. The only misery in my life is that I have to deal with PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
Don’t take this too personally, it’s really meant for everyone who tries to tell me about my “lifestyle choice.”
76. Troyez - January 26th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
If you don’t subscribe to the Weekly Standard, I have a review from the Washington Post book review (Michael F. Bishop) if you want; http://www.amazon.com/Intimate.....amp;sr=8-4
“Its not a choice.”
I’ve heard that one before.
When you say that you “accepted” being gay, didn’t you make a choice?
There are peole in this world who think that everything is determined by fate (you have no say in what happens in your life), and those who think that human beings have free will (the ability to make choices, determining the paths of their lives. It seems that you believe the former, while I believe the latter.
My point was that I didn’t think that Abraham Lincoln was homosexual, and that people should not try to re-write history to strengthen/further their worldview, without Mr. Lincoln’s being able to defend himself from these accusations.
And I called the post here slander; here’s the definition of slander: : the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another’s reputation (Merriam-Webster). I think Mr. Lincoln was misrepresented.
Call me all the names you want, Dan; they seem to be the main point of your argument.
77. Cyn - January 26th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
…“Romantic Friendship” - a term that described an intimate, but non-sexual relationship between two people…
copy/paste of text from this list.
notice it says romantic NON sexual.
bear in mind the enormous differences in what constitutes friendship, romance, passion (sex less variety) by that time period’s standards of behavior and the 21st century.
so i’m confused as to how anyone reading this list can charge the author of it w/ slander when the entry expressly states NON sexual.
and do we really want to get into a debate about homosexuality being voluntary or biological (which it is)? i think not.
78. Troyez - January 26th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Look at the picture associated with the article.
79. jfrater - January 27th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Troyez: first of all - I did not say he was gay and I don’t believe he was. The image is meant to be humorous and nothing more. And thirdly, I don’t think it is defaming a person to suggest he is gay (which I haven’t done) - but I think your over-reaction to it might say more about you than Lincoln.
80. Cyn - January 27th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Troyez - its a caricature or cartoon. as in not a real depiction or photograph.
IMO someone who is offended by such an image not only lacks a sense of humor (and perspective) but is probably a closet homophobe.

or is some cases..a quite public homophobe.
81. Troyez - January 27th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Everyone attack the evil, intolerant, homophobe!!! You all have reiterated what I think is indicative of today’s society; tolerance is king, but in this case tolerance really means acceptance.
And, through all this arguing, those of you who have responded have successfully (in your minds, no doubt) shifted the focus of my statement from the article to me, successfully muddying the water.
And btw, Mr. Frater, your piece on Lincoln implied that A.L. was a homosexual;
“Romantic Friendships were very common until the mid to late 19th century when homosexuality was beginning to be defined.”
It sure sounds like you said/inferred that a “romantic friendship,” was an early form of homosexuality.
Anyway, it is hard to have discourse when everyone who writes in calls you names; what happened to the celebrated tolerance this new world is always trumpeting from the rooftops? That’s right, I forgot, you can have tolerance only for liberal minded folks who think like you!
Thanks everyone, you’ve changed my way of thinking! I am going to get a Hillary ‘08 bumper sticker, buy a pair of Birkenstocks, and join Move on!
Peace, out!
82. jfrater - January 27th, 2008 at 2:12 am
Troyez: you missed my point completely - it was the definition of homosexuality that caused people who were having normal platonic relationships to stop out of fear of being branded something they were not. It was not because homosexuality was the new term for Romantic Friendship - it is that Romantic Friendships were likely to be labelled homosexual when they were not. Let me state it again - I do not believe Lincoln was gay and I was not trying to imply that he was in my comment.
Oh - and btw, there is no such thing as “an early form of homosexuality” - homosexuality has always been there, it was just not referred to in that way - the concept of gender “classes” is a modern one.
83. cryndigo - January 30th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Nice picture of Michael Jackson. What a freak.
84. satori - January 30th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Ok…the whole Nero and Sporus is a little strange…I hope that Sporus was willingly casterated! Also, some strange entanglements took place throughout the life of Aleister Crowley-especially with (I can’t remember the guys name) but he was a follower of his teachings and was forced to sleep on burrs etc, and only for brief periods after which Crowley would have his way with him. The guy was later married. He was told it was all part of his “training”.
85. JwJwBean - February 10th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
This one goes beyond icky. http://www.parentsbehavingbadl.....-daughter/
86. Sugarpie - April 19th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
The first one just gives me the creeps even more of Woody Allen