Top 10 Famous Hoaxes
Published on August 30, 2007 - 151 Comments
Throughout the years many people have perpetrated hoaxes - often for publicity, and sometimes just for the hell of it. Of all the hoaxes through history, the ten in this list are the most famous. In at least two cases (the Book of Mormon, and the Priory of Sion) millions of people have been fooled - or continue to be fooled! In no particular order, here they are:
1. The Book of Mormon 1830
The Book of Mormon is considered by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to be a divinely inspired book of equal value to the Bible. Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon religion, claimed that he was directed by an Angel to a hill near his home in which he found golden tablets containing the full text of the book. With the books he found two objects called the Urim and Thummim which he described as a pair of crystals joined in the form of a large pair of spectacles. Unfortunately, after Smith finished his translation, he had to return the tablets to the Angel, so there is no physical evidence that they ever existed.
The book refers to a group of Jews that moved to and settled in America where Jesus visited them. Some segments of the Book of Mormon contain sections copied directly from the King James version of the Bible - the Bible that was most popular at the time and used by Joseph Smith. One example is Mark 16:15-18 which is quoted nearly word-for-word in Mormon 9:22-24. In addition, the book mimics the literary and linguistic style of the King James Bible. Linguistic experts have stated that the entire book is written by one man, and is not written by a combination of authors (the prophets as claimed by Smith). Additionally, the book refers to animals and crops that did not exist in America until Columbus arrived: ass, bull, calf, cattle, cow, domestic goat, horse, ox, domestic sheep, sow, swine, elephants, wheat, and barley.
The most compelling proof that Joseph Smith was perpetuating a fraud is the Book of Abraham. In 1835 Smith was able to use his Urim and Thummim to translate some Egyptian scrolls that he was given access to (at that time no one could read hieroglyphics). Upon inspection, Smith declared that they contained the Book of Abraham. He promptly translated the lot and it was accepted as scripture by the church. The scrolls vanished and everyone thought the story would end there. But it didn’t - in 1966 the original scrolls were found in the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art. The scrolls turned out to be a standard Egyptian text that was often buried with the dead. To this day the Book of Abraham is a source of discomfort for the Mormon religion.
2. The Cottingley Fairies 1917
The Cottingley Fairies are a series of five photographs taken by Elsie Wright and Frances Griffiths, two young cousins living in Cottingley, near Bradford, England, depicting the two in various activities with supposed fairies. Elsie was the daughter of Arthur Wright, one of the earliest qualified electrical engineers. She borrowed her father’s quarter plate camera and took photos in the beck behind the family house. When Mr. Wright, upon developing the plates, saw fairies in the pictures, he considered them fake. After the taking of the second picture, he banned Elsie from using the camera again. Her mother, Polly, however was convinced of their authenticity.
In the summer of 1919, the matter became public and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (author of Sherlock Holmes) wrote an article for a leading magazine claiming that they were authentic. Not everyone was taken in by the fraud, as this statement from a leading Doctor at the time attests:
“On the evidence I have no hesitation in saying that these photographs could have been `faked’. I criticise the attitude of those who declared there is something supernatural in the circumstances attending to the taking of these pictures because, as a medical man, I believe that the inculcation of such absurd ideas into the minds of children will result in later life in manifestations and nervous disorder and mental disturbances…”
For fifty years the girls avoided publicity and the hoax continued to be believed by many. In late 1981 and mid 1982 respectively, Frances Way (née Griffiths) and Elsie Hill (née Wright), who took the photographs admitted that the first four pictures were fakes. Speaking of the first photograph in particular, Frances has said: “I don’t see how people could believe they’re real fairies. I could see the backs of them and the hatpins when the photo was being taken.” Both of the girls claimed, right up to their deaths, that the fifth photo was, in fact, authentic.
3. Alien Autopsy 1995
In 1995, Ray Santilli instigated a wide reaching “alien autopsy” controversy when he claimed to possess footage taken in a tent by a U.S. military shortly after the 1947 Roswell UFO incident. Santilli first presented his film to an invited audience of media representatives, UFOlogists and other dignitaries at the Museum of London on 5 May 1995. Although the broadcast version did not show the actual “autopsy”, video editions have the complete and unedited film, plus previously unreleased footage of wreckage presented as the remains of the alien craft reported to have crashed in Roswell. The show features interviews with experts on the authenticity of the film.
On April 4, 2006, two days prior to the UK release of Alien Autopsy Ray Santilli and fellow producer Gary Shoefield announced that their film was only partially real (a “few frames,” in their words), while the rest was a reconstruction of twenty-two rolls of film, averaging four minutes in length, which Santilli had viewed in 1992 but which had subsequently degraded from humidity and heat. According to Santilli, a set was constructed in the living room of an empty flat in Rochester Square, Camden Town, London. John Humphreys, an artist and sculptor, was employed to construct two dummy alien bodies over a period of three weeks, using casts containing sheep brains set in jelly, chicken entrails and knuckle joints.
4. Piltdown Man 1912
The “Piltdown Man” is a famous hoax consisting of fragments of a skull and jawbone collected in 1912 from a gravel pit at Piltdown, a village near Uckfield, East Sussex. The fragments were thought by many experts of the day to be the fossilised remains of a hitherto unknown form of early human. The Latin name Eoanthropus dawsoni (”Dawson’s dawn-man”, after the collector Charles Dawson) was given to the specimen.
The Piltdown hoax is perhaps the most famous archaeological hoax in history. It has been prominent for two reasons: the attention paid to the issue of human evolution, and the length of time (more than 40 years) that elapsed from its discovery to its exposure as a forgery. It was exposed in 1953 as a forgery, consisting of the lower jawbone of an orangutan combined with the skull of a fully developed, modern man. The identity of the Piltdown forger remains unknown, but suspects have included Dawson, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and Arthur Conan Doyle as well as numerous others.
From the outset, there were scientists who expressed skepticism about the Piltdown find. G.S. Miller, for example, observed in 1915 that “deliberate malice could hardly have been more successful than the hazards of deposition in so breaking the fossils as to give free scope to individual judgment in fitting the parts together.” In the decades prior to its exposure as a forgery in 1953, scientists increasingly regarded Piltdown as an enigmatic aberration inconsistent with the path of hominid evolution as demonstrated by fossils found elsewhere.
5. Feejee Mermaid 1842
The Feejee Mermaid was presented as a mummified body of something, supposedly a creature that was half mammal and half fish (like a grotesque version of normal mermaid stories). The original exhibit was popularized by circus great P.T. Barnum, but has since been copied many times in other attractions, including the collection of famed showman Robert Ripley. The original exhibit was shown around the United States, but was lost in the 1860s when Barnum’s museum caught fire. The exhibit has since been acquired by Harvard University’s Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology and is currently housed in the museum’s attic storage area.
The Fiji mermaid came into Barnum’s possession via his Boston counterpart Moses Kimball, who brought it down to Barnum in late spring of 1842. On June 18, Barnum and Kimball entered into a written agreement to exploit this “curiosity supposed to be a mermaid.” Kimball would remain the creature’s sole owner and Barnum would lease it for $12.50 a week. Barnum christened his artefact “The Feejee Mermaid”.
In reality, the mermaid was a gaff, the work of an Indonesian craftsman using either papier-mâché and materials from exotic fish, or the tail of a fish and a torso of a baby orangutan, stitched together with the head of a monkey
6. The Priory of Sion 1956
The Priory of Sion has been characterized as anything from the most influential secret society in Western history to a modern Rosicrucian-esque group, but, ultimately, has been shown to be a hoax created in 1956 by Pierre Plantard, a pretender to the French throne. The evidence presented in support of its historical existence is not considered authentic or persuasive by established historians, academics, and universities, and the evidence was later discovered to have been forged and then planted in various locations around France by Plantard and his associates.
Between 1961 and 1984 Plantard contrived a mythical pedigree of the Priory of Sion claiming that it was the offshoot of the monastic order housed in the Abbey of Sion, which had been founded in the Kingdom of Jerusalem during the First Crusade and later absorbed by the Jesuits in 1617. Plantard hoped that the Priory of Sion would become an influential cryptopolitical irregular masonic lodge dedicated to the restoration of chivalry and monarchy, which would promote Plantard’s own claim to the throne of France.
The priory recently gained interest again (despite easily obtainable proof that it is a fake) through the publication of the book The Davinci Code which the author, Dan Brown, claims to be fact (proving that he lied outright about his alleged years of research for the book).
7. The Turk 1717
The Turk was a fake chess-playing machine of the late 18th century, promoted as an automaton but later proved to be a hoax. The Turk made its debut in 1770 at Schönbrunn Palace. Its owner, Kempelen addressed the court, presenting what he had built, and began the demonstration of the machine and its parts. With every showing of the Turk, Kempelen began by opening the doors and drawers of the cabinet, allowing members of the audience to inspect the machine. Following this display, Kempelen would announce that the machine was ready for a challenger.
Kempelen would inform the player that the Turk would use the white pieces and have the first move. Between moves the Turk kept its left arm on the cushion. The Turk could nod twice if it threatened its opponent’s queen, and three times upon placing the king in check. If an opponent made an illegal move, the Turk would shake its head, move the piece back and make its own move, thus forcing a forfeit of its opponent’s move. Observers of the Turk would state that the machine played aggressively, and typically beat its opponents within thirty minutes.
The Turk was in fact a mechanical illusion that allowed a human chess master to hide inside and operate the machine. With a skilled operator, the Turk won most of the games played. The apparatus was demonstrated around Europe and the Americas for over 80 years until its destruction by fire in 1854, playing and defeating many challengers including statesmen such as Napoleon Bonaparte and Benjamin Franklin.
8. Loch Ness - the Surgeon’s Photo 1934
One of the most iconic images of Nessie is known as the ‘Surgeon’s Photograph’ which many consider to be good evidence of the monster, although doubts about the photograph’s authenticity were expressed from the beginning. The image was revealed as a hoax in the 1990s. The photographer, a gynecologist named Robert Kenneth Wilson, never claimed it to be a picture of the monster. He merely claimed to have photographed “something in the water”. The photo is often cropped to make the monster seem huge, while the original uncropped shot shows the other end of the loch and the monster in the center.
Just a year before the hoax was revealed, the makers of Discovery Communications’ documentary Loch Ness Discovered did an analysis of the uncropped image and found a white object evident in every version of the photo, implying that it was on the negative. “It seems to be the source of ripples in the water, almost as if the object was towed by something”, the narrator said. “But science cannot rule out it was just a blemish on the negative,” he continued. Additionally, analysis of the full photograph revealed the object to be quite small, only about two to three feet long.
9. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion 1890
The Protocol of the Elders of Zion is a text that purports to describe a Jewish and Masonic plot to achieve world domination. It is one of the most well known and discussed examples of literary forgery. Numerous independent investigations have concluded it to be either a plagiarism or a hoax. The Protocols is widely considered to be the beginning of contemporary conspiracy theory literature, and takes the form of an instruction manual to a new member of the “elders,” describing how they will run the world through control of the media and finance, and replace the traditional social order with one based on mass manipulation.
Continued usage of the Protocols as an antisemitic propaganda tool substantially diminished with the defeat of the Nazis in World War II. It is still frequently quoted and reprinted by some anti-Semitic circles, and is sometimes used as evidence of an alleged Jewish cabal, especially in the Middle East. Elements of the text in the Protocols appears to be plagiarized from an 1864 pamphlet, Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, written by the French satirist Maurice Joly. Joly’s work attacks the political ambitions of Napoleon III using Machiavelli as a diabolical plotter in Hell as a stand-in for Napoleon’s views.
Interestingly, many of the protocols aims have been achieved. For example: Universal suffrage, wide acceptance of pornography, the spread of Darwinism, Socialism, and Materialism.
10. The Cardiff Giant 1869
The Cardiff Giant, one of the most famous hoaxes in American history, was a 10-foot-tall (3m) “petrified man” uncovered on October 16, 1869 by workers digging a well behind the barn of William C. “Stub” Newell in Cardiff, New York. Both it and an unauthorized copy made by P.T. Barnum are still on display. The Giant was the creation of a New York tobacconist named George Hull. Hull, an atheist, decided to create the giant after an argument with a fundamentalist minister named Mr. Turk about a passage in Genesis that stated that there were giants who once lived on earth.
Hull hired men to carve out a 10-feet-long, 4.5 inches block of gypsum in Fort Dodge, Iowa, telling them it was intended for a monument of Abraham Lincoln in New York. He shipped the block to Chicago, where he hired a German stonecutter to carve it into the likeness of a man and swore him to secrecy. Various stains and acids were used to make the giant appear to be old and weather beaten, and the giant’s surface was beaten with steel knitting needles embedded in a board to simulate pores. When the giant had been buried for a year, Newell hired two men, Gideon Emmons and Henry Nichols, ostensibly to dig a well. When they found the Giant, one of them has been attributed to saying “I declare, some old Indian has been buried here!”.
The giant drew such crowds that showman P.T. Barnum offered $60,000 for a three-month lease of it (in his memoirs he said he wanted to buy it). When the syndicate turned him down he hired a man to covertly model the giant’s shape in wax and create a plaster replica. He put his giant on display in New York, claiming that his was the real giant and the Cardiff Giant was a fake. On February 2, 1870 both giants were revealed as fakes in court. The judge ruled that Barnum could not be sued for calling a fake giant a fake.
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1. mix2323 - August 30th, 2007 at 11:27 am
big foot video
2. jfrater - August 30th, 2007 at 11:41 am
mix: good addition - did they prove it a hoax?
3. eddy - August 30th, 2007 at 11:48 am
What about the bible or the Qu’ran?
4. jfrater - August 30th, 2007 at 11:50 am
eddy: Bible is tough because half of it is at least 3 thousand years old - and we the Quran was written down after the fact without the use of magic glasses
I am working on a top 10 Christian Sects and their origins though - so that will cover at least reformation and later Christianity.
5. mix2323 - August 30th, 2007 at 11:54 am
jfrater:yea they did prove it to be a fake they guys who shot the video said so on there death bed they did a special on it on the discovery channel
6. jfrater - August 30th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
mix: heh typical
7. Robert - August 30th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
I think the Book of Mormon hasn’t been proven a hoax any more than any other religious text.
8. Christopher - August 30th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Yeah, the bible says the earth is 6000 years old. And the sun orbits the earth?
9. jfrater - August 30th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Christopher: I don’t think it says the earth is 6000 years old - that is a calculation made by modern religious people. Not sure about heliocentricity either - can you quote a verse?
Robert: umm - did you read the item?
10. dalandzadgad - August 30th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
people fooling people. what is real?
i vaguely remember the construction of the earth in “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” where workers install fossils into the earth, heh.
11. Fe - August 30th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Whenever I want a laugh, I read something about PT Barnum. The guy was a hoot and a half. Showman and conman, with a good sense of the ridiculous all mixed up into one. Whenever the word hoax is used, Barnum is the first person I think of.
12. james - August 30th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Christ
13. Stephen - August 30th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Eddy: Whether you believe the bible or not, the text has been corroborated by several independent non-christian sources. While many of these texts don’t refer to Jesus as God or the Messiah, they also don’t deny that he performed the works he did. Most just say he used magic or sorcery. Red the book “The Case for Christ.” It gives a good general picture of how much of at least the New Testament is based on history. And it references several other books if you want to get more in-depth on a specific detail.
14. Andre du Plessis - August 30th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Sumerian texts are way older than the bible and it is viewed as fantasy … Hey I guess we are living in a hoax - who is first to laugh ?
15. jfrater - August 30th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
The problem is that when something becomes so historical that it loses focus, proof is just not possible. In a way that makes some of these lists easier to write
16. Mark - August 30th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
“In at least two cases (the Book of Mormon, and the Priory of Sion) millions of people have been fooled - or continue to be fooled! ”
~ I noticed the omission of a another religion that was created recently by a single man.
One that likes to sue detractors?
17. jfrater - August 31st, 2007 at 1:36 am
Mark: are talking Scientology? If so, I have done two articles on them already
http://listverse.com/bizarre/t.....ientology/
http://listverse.com/miscellan.....ientology/
18. anton lefevre - August 31st, 2007 at 5:30 pm
There are a few more big ones you missed:
11. Stonehenge in England
Supposed to have been built by ancient Britons centuries ago, in fact it was created by 19th century entrepreneur, Baron Greville with the intention of attracting tourism to the region. As recently as 2006 a UK opinion poll found that 92 per cent of Britons still believe it to be an ancient structure.
12. Howard Hughes’ biography
In the ’70s author Clifford Irving claimed he had exclusive access to the billionaire Howard Hughes and sold the rights to his biography to a major publisher. It was only when the normally reclusive Hughes surfaced to deny Irving’s claims that the truth was uncovered.
13. Roman numerals
In fact the Romans didn’t have a standard counting system, but adopted different methods at different stages in their history. The system we now know as Roman numerals was actually devised by Lithuanian monk, Irma Ferhar in the 12th century
14. Picture postcards
Probably one of the biggest hoaxes to be perpetrated upon holidaymakers is the idea that anyone is interested in what you did on your holiday, or that you should waste valuable holiday time writing about it, or that you should stress yourself before your holiday making sure you have the addresses of all your friends and relatives.
15. Australia
Cartographers drawing up the first maps of Australia were shocked to discover that its shape closely resembles an embarrassing part of the human anatomy. To spare the blushes of the then somewhat straitlaced society they slightly stretched and distorted the actual shape. Although we live in less prudish times the hoax continues today giving rise to occasional misjudgements by sailors and airline pilots.
16. Musical scales
For centuries musicians have been hoaxing non musicians by making them believe there are more scales than there actually are. For example C flat major is exactly the same scale as B major, D flat major is exactly the same as C sharp major and F sharp major is identical to G flat major, but you won’t find many musicians owning up to this.
17. Icelandic
As anyone who has ever visited Iceland or inspected an Icelandic dictionary will quickly discover the native language of Iceland is French. This was a source of embarrassment within the country for years until 1911 when Iceland’s Prime Minister Björn Jónsson decreed that his people spoke ‘Icelandic’, which he claimed was a unique language in its own right. The hoax backfired big time when major French companies withdrew from the country in protest causing significant job losses.
19. Puzzled - August 31st, 2007 at 8:00 pm
@anton
ooook…..
(Apart from 12…)?????????
20. crazygal - August 31st, 2007 at 8:10 pm
The Bible is the “Word”!!!! Period! Scientists needs proof for Everything that they cant explain,,,,so they “invented” the “Big Bang” as to how our world came into being
21. Stephen - August 31st, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Crazygal: I agree. And it’s interesting because there’s no proof of the “Big Bang.” Stupid scientists…
I think I’d rather believe in a GOD then that a big explosion created the universe.
22. jfrater - September 1st, 2007 at 12:55 am
Anton: I am guessing you are posting for a joke, but just so people don’t get confused:
11. Stonehenge is ACTUALLY a prehistoric monument - erected around 2200 BC.
15. Australia: we can see it on the globe now - it looks pretty much the same there as it did on every map I have seen of it. Are you talking about a very early map?
17. Icelandic is a very ancient language - speakers and readers of Icelandic can still read their ancient books. It has no relation to French at all which is a Romance language. Icelandic is a Germanic language.
12. Fake Howard Hughes biography: this is true
13. Roman Numerals were used by the romans - check out some monuments in Rome. They grew from the Etruscan numbering system.
14. Postcards: this is more of a conspiracy
16. Musical Scales: I studied music - there are definitely different scales
23. Fruckert - September 1st, 2007 at 12:59 am
you said stonehence instead of stonehenge…
and also, anton…how the hell did you get all of that?
im going to get out of character here really quickly and say that anyone who believes that is a gullible moron
24. jfrater - September 1st, 2007 at 1:06 am
Fruckert: thanks
25. James - September 1st, 2007 at 10:42 am
Crazygal: a fitting name.
Stephen: Interesting you say you would “rather” believe that there was a god than a big bang.. Scared of hard facts? And there is indeed evidence of it, contrary to your beliefs.
And “stupid scientist”???? - you mean those guys who find cures for fatal illnesses, make long distance calls possible, people like that famous “stupid” guy Einstein? Yeah, right, I can see where you are coming from…
Read the God Dillusion by Richard Dawkins if you haven’t already done so..
26. Kmuzu - September 1st, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Book of Mormon is not a hoax. That doesn’t mean it’s true. It is extremely likely Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon from various references such as the Bible and the Qu’ran, however Smith and his brother both were lynched for their beliefs and there are several million Mormons who believe it’s real. So, it doesn’t seem very “hoax” like.
27. Monteze - September 1st, 2007 at 12:15 pm
You’d think that if there was one true god then there would only be ONE religion…and that god its self would punish the morons who changed his original word…..just had to get that off my mind..PS i know i used its self to referance god ..its because we do not know if it is a he, she or something else
28. Stephen - September 1st, 2007 at 4:46 pm
James: Really, where is this “evidence” that a big explosion created the galaxy. Did they find a video on YouTube?
If there is no God, then how did things exist in the first place? Atoms and Molecules popped into existence with no cause?
29. Che - September 1st, 2007 at 7:49 pm
The Swiss Spaghetti Harvest of 1957 was the first of its kind, i’m told.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
Though you might want to keep it for a future “Top
10 April Fools” list…
30. China tattler - September 2nd, 2007 at 12:20 am
The most famous hoax isn’t listed here.
For a Hoax to be real, it must never be discovered.
All listed here are just pretenders to the throne.
The greatest hoax isn’t famous yet, because nobody has uncovered it.
31. jfrater - September 2nd, 2007 at 12:32 am
kmuzu: whether something is a hoax or not has no relation to whether people believe it. If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it fall - it still fell. The fact is that scientific study and time have shown that the book of Mormon is not what Smith claims it was. Therefore, it is a hoax - he intentionally created the book in to tricking people. The only difference is that his hoax has been very successful.
Che: hilarious! Thanks for posting that.
32. jfrater - September 2nd, 2007 at 12:38 am
China tattler: so true, but it would be a boring list if I wrote only about the top 10 undiscovered hoaxes
33. James - September 2nd, 2007 at 5:21 am
Stephen: After aproximately 10 seconds of research on wikipedia I found this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....l_evidence
To answer your question of how things came about would take too long and nobody really knows for sure.
However just because there is no certain answer as yet does not mean there is a god. Every time science cannot provide an answer religion immediately claims that as eveidence for god. That makes no sense Stephen.
Finally if god did make the universe it poses the more complex question - who made god? To answer a question with something that creates an even bigger question is no way to form an argument.
In time science will find the answer, just as it did about the world being flat. Until then lack of evidence is no proof of god.
34. Elle Rayne - September 2nd, 2007 at 8:58 pm
“The priory recently gained interest again (despite easily obtainable proof that it is a fake) through the publication of the book The Davinci Code which the author, Dan Brown, claims to be fact (proving that he lied outright about his alleged years of research for the book).”
First of all, he deliberately did not specify which parts were fact or not. He also admitted he put the infamous disclaimer at the front of the book to get people to consider the story presented with a “what-if” frame of mind, not to claim When people asked him later why he’d lied to them, he basically said he was telling a story and people could take it how they wanted. Of course he did research…for story material. He is a novelist. This is a good list. Don’t let cheap editorializing ruin it.
35. jfrater - September 2nd, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Elle Rayne: in 2003, on CNN, Dan Brown said:
The problem is that the background is not true - the Priory of Sion is a hoax and if he had done his research he would have known that.
There is more information on what he has wrong on the Top 10 Errors of the Da Vinci Code
36. emil - September 3rd, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Hwy, mix, the patterson bigfoot movie hasnt been proven to be a hoax, infact rather the opposite. Noone of Gimli or Patterson has said it was a haox and the only people who officialy claim it is are lying and have all been disproved.
37. Elle Rayne - September 3rd, 2007 at 8:28 pm
“The problem is that the background is not true - the Priory of Sion is a hoax and if he had done his research he would have known that.”
My point is, he doesn’t CARE it’s a hoax. It makes for good fiction. And he was true to legend. He didn’t say the legend was true. And again, this is part of his tongue-in-cheek humor in putting the disclaimer in front of the book. So, you still can’t say he didn’t do his research, because obviously he read about the Priory to include in his FICTIONAL BOOK. It’s still cheap editorializing.
38. jfrater - September 3rd, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Elle: I do see your point, but he insists on claiming that it is real and in doing so has deceived a lot of people who believe him. Someone quoted the Da Vinci code on the unsolved mysteries top 10 to prove his point. And what about the other points? Describing Windows overlooking certain areas which you would only think if you had only seen tour guides and not actually been the place? What about the French geography that was completely wrong? There are so many errors. If he told people it was tongue in cheek then fine - but he doesn’t - he insists that it is all factual.
39. Elle Rayne - September 4th, 2007 at 6:26 am
jfrater: It sounds like you have some personal issues with Brown that I can’t help you with.
40. jfrater - September 4th, 2007 at 7:08 am
Elle Rayne: I have never met Dan Brown, so I don’t have any personal issues with him at all. I just take issue with him stating that his book is truth when it isn’t. Frankly, if you think I have issues, so does the New Yorker, and the New York Times
41. Spark - September 5th, 2007 at 1:24 am
This is the weirdest list ever. Do you have something personal against Mormons? Because that’s the only reason I can see for putting a bunch of things that have been conclusively proven to be hoaxes in with the Book of Mormon, which… may be a hoax or may not be a hoax, but hasn’t been proven either way. The evidence you provide here is completely lacking in anything even vaguely resembling proof. And contains one outright falsehood, seeing as how I’ve never heard of a Mormon being embarrassed about the book of Abraham, they’re still printing it, endorsing it as scripture, and teaching from it. How is that “a source of discomfort”? If you want to convince people that the book is a fake, you might try sticking to facts and not inventing things.
42. jfrater - September 5th, 2007 at 2:52 am
spark: I don’t have anything against Mormons - I do have something against Joseph Smith because he was a trickster. Wouldn’t it be considered an embarrassment because of the fact the Book of Abraham is one of the most commonly pointed out errors of Mormonism? There are millions of pages on the internet dedicated to trying to explain away the realities of the Papyrus to support Smith’s view.
43. Miguel - September 5th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
BTW, the word is “proved” — ‘proven’ is an adjective.
44. James - September 6th, 2007 at 3:19 am
BTW, nobody cares
45. jfrater - September 6th, 2007 at 4:48 am
Now now boys
46. Bump - September 6th, 2007 at 9:55 am
I don’t know what this has to do with anything, just going to throw it out there….. The only reason Jesus isn’t remembered as the Greatest Magician in History is because the Deck of Cards hadn’t been invented yet.
47. Che - September 7th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Miguel, please don’t bore us with your ignorance of acceptable english grammar.
48. mcp369 - September 8th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Ok I only have one comment for anyone who references where did matter aka. atoms, proton, neutrons, electrons, ect. come from and that is where did your god come from. Just poof mystical being somehow appears. So believe whatever you want to believe but do not undo your own logic with a stupid idea.
49. Michael - September 9th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
FYI, icelandic, as mentioned in another post, is not french. It is essentially the same language the vikings spoke. However, vikings settled in normandie in france, Which is why its called Normandie. The name refers to men from the north. So, Vikings have connection to france. French has no connection to iceland.
50. Bill - September 9th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Anthropogenic Global Warming, the biggest hoax of our time.
51. jfrater - September 9th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Bill - I am considering a list related to that. We shall see.
52. james - September 10th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
mcp39: exactly!
53. Che - September 11th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Michael - indeed. Vikings have connections to most west european countries. They have also found ancient chinese coinage in archaelogical excavations in Denmark. They also traded with Asia.
Makes you think, huh ?
But the one thing about the Vikings that really impresses me is - the Normand kingdom of Sicily.
Amazing.
/Scots
//from Largs : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Largs
///We won - don’t worry about it, it was a long time ago.
////vive l’Europe.
54. michael - September 11th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Mark Hoffman deserves a spot on this list. he was able to produce fake historical documents that sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars and fooled even the library of congress. Coincidently, one of his favorite marks was the Mormon Church.
A book called: The Poet and the Murderer chronicles his exploits.
link to book at amazon
55. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 11:23 am
you missed the biggest hoax of all…
the holocaust
56. jfrater - September 11th, 2007 at 11:23 am
Michael: I have heard of him - he is a good addition to the list.
57. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 11:24 am
and the biggest most dangerous hoax of the 21st century….
The Iranian president said he wants nukes to wipe israel off the map…
total lies and propaganda… this lie is going to start ww3.
58. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Interestingly, many of the protocols aims have been achieved. For example: Universal suffrage, wide acceptance of pornography, the spread of Darwinism, Socialism, and Materialism.
….
what about the Jewish control of media and finance?
59. jfrater - September 11th, 2007 at 11:41 am
sakul: Considering that Rupert Murdoch owns a huge amount of the media, and he is Australian, I would say that Jewish control of the media is a conspiracy theory.
60. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Rupert Murdoch’s mother was jewish, which, just like my own son… makes him jewish according to the talmud.
61. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
have a look here jfrater…
http://www.rense.com/general60/stun.htm
62. jfrater - September 11th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
sakul: I think you need to read websites that are not about the Jewish conspiracy - they are misleading you. Rupert Murdoch’s mother (Dame Elisabeth Murdoch) was born of a Irish protestant father and an upper class English mother whose roots trace back to the 17th century in England and Ireland and there is no mention of Jewish background (including in the names of her predecessors - maternal or otherwise). And frankly, the Talmud is hardly an authority on whether a person is a Jew - if they do not practise the religion and do not believe in its tenets, they are not Jewish.
63. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
looks like I am cut off from posting… my link to the hundreds of jewish execs in the media today, is n’t getting posted.. do a search for this…
‘ Stunning Jewish Success
Dominates American Media’
64. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
And frankly, the Talmud is hardly an authority on whether a person is a Jew - if they do not practise the religion and do not believe in its tenets, they are not Jewish.
…
oh, but you are wrong there. extremely. My ex is a christian-jew.. With israeli citizenship.. are you saying that Israel was WRONG to say she is jewish? but she is christian…. ahhhh… there it is… do a search for that search term, and then you come and tell me that it is ‘tin foil hat’ conspiracy.
65. jfrater - September 11th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Sakul: you weren’t cut off from posting - your link was picked up as spam - I just authorized it so it is included above. Regardless of what you say, if a person denounces Judaism by not practising or believing, they are not jewish (by religion at least - they may still be ethnically jewish).
The fact is - Murdoch does not have Jewish heritage at all. Oh - and that site you listed - he is wrong - Wikipedia article on Murdoch’s mother. How can you believe a site that has articles on psychic powers, and ufo sightings? Rense is a conspiracy theorist (Wikipedia article).
66. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
thats ad hominem attack, abut the rense website… you will notice also that it is just a document picked up from another website.. the data is factual though… Are you saying that if the moon exploded, and david dukes website had a link or story that said ‘the moon exploded’.. does that mean the moon DIDN’T explode, just because david duke said it? Didn’t think so. if you want to discuss the ‘quality’ of sources… we can discuss wikipedia at length, as wikipedia is easily shown to be a propaganda site, with edits coming from foxnews, etc… but hey, it is your site..
according to Jews, being a jew is a race, like being chinese. Converts aren’t ‘really’ jews.
67. sakul - September 11th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
So,… how many people died in the German Concentration Camps according to the international Red Cross which was allowed into the camps after they were liberated?
Red Cross
68. Jeff - September 20th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Um sakul, you sound very much like an ignorant fool who believes everything he reads, save that which is actually credible. as much as good jfrater has tried to explain to you where you erred and with ample back up and research at that, you still persist in being a classic thick headed fool-of-a-Took.
69. sakul - September 20th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Hey Jeff… where did good jfrater show that I erred? I didn’t see that. And guess what dude, MY AMPLE BACK UP AND RESEARCH was REMOVED by the good jfrater.
And it is you folks that believe everything you read, or hear. You just aren’t reading the right things.. Such as the MSM and memri.org.
And I think my 2 degrees and 6 figure engineering career disagree with me being an ignorant fool. I’ll give you a tip… facts require evidence and proof. Something that was strangely amiss at the Nuremberg trials… If you actually took the time to research it.
Einstein… answer the question about why the walls on the supposed gas chamber at aushwitz aren’t stained blue, when the delousing chambers that used the the same ‘gassing’ all have blue-stained walls, which is a chemical by product of cyanide and water/air? Also answer why it is illegal in many countries just to ask questions? Why don’t they want anyone to ask questions? I can ask questions about Stalin, I can ask questions about japanese imperialism in the 20s, I can even ask questions about agent orange in vietnam, or the kennedy assasination, or pretty much anything else on earth.. But I can’t ask questions about the gas chambers… hmmm…..
70. jfrater - September 20th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
I am not getting involved… but… A Study of the Cyanide Compounds Content In The Walls Of The Gas Chambers in the Former Auschwitz and Birkenau Concentration Camps by the Institute of Forensic Research in Cracow, Poland.
71. sakul - September 20th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
at least leave this up for a minute or two jfrater.. so some people at least have the opportunity to see the information..
http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gaschamb.html
and that link you posted… a little biased dont ya think? With a bit of an agenda?
72. jfrater - September 20th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
sakul: my links have an agenda but yours don’t? Tsk tsk
I won’t delete your comment - just don’t turn this in to another triumphalist diatribe!
73. sakul - September 20th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
I looked at the site you posted, and actually read a lot of it… Did you happen to read mine?
Anyways, I give up.. however, one thing to note.. in your reference it is notable that it does acknowledge that the chemical samples of the camps has little or no positive analysis… however, they say it is because the residue was washed away by rainwater.. the elements etc.. Look for some picture of the only remaining chamber at auschwitz… IT HAS A ROOF and is fully enclosed..
touche..
74. Allison - September 22nd, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Christopher,
It was Isadore of Seville, a 7th C historian who came up with numbers for the age of the earth.
75. JJ - September 24th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
maybe this will settle the arguement ,,what if both sides are right,, god vs big bang, in the begining there was nuthin then god created the heavens and the earth,,,, now i’m sure that made one hell of a noise ,think about there it was nothin then there was everything
76. Boris - September 26th, 2007 at 1:56 am
Last night, I stayed up until about 4 AM listening to the top recordings list. Neither the creepy exorcism caught on tape nor the crying children of the Jonestown massacre frightened me more than just now reading Sakul’s frightening logic and the fervor with which he/she delivers it.
77. jfrater - September 26th, 2007 at 3:06 am
Boris: I love your comment
78. sakul - September 26th, 2007 at 8:50 am
booga booga!
BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA!
What drama Boris……
And you should change your comment a bit… ‘frightening logic’ should be changed to ’scientific evidence’, that way it would fit better with the discussion. And you all come back after ww3 starts, and talk about ‘fervor’. When your kids are sent off to fight for Israel, then ask yourself why YOU weren’t trying prevent it.
what a joke saying my comments are scarier than jonestown kids being force fed poison…
79. Jeff - September 26th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
-Sakul-
you are an angry person. Boris was simply making a joke about that fact. and if you are making six figures thats awesome, and if you are brilliant thats awesome too, but that doesn’t mean that you are not a fool-of-a-Took. Look at out president for example, good ole G.W. Bush has got plenty of credentials, yet has proven to be the biggest fool-of-a-Took this country has ever put in power. so in conclusion please refrain from causing such an upstart in a peaceful humorous website such as this.
thank you much good sir/miss
80. netexile - September 26th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
The Moon Landings anyone??
Watched a program the other night about it and based on the photographic evidence I’m leaning towards the first landing at least being fake.
oh and the Loch Ness Monster is real, it has to be, I’m Scottish and we need to be famous for more than just Whiskey!
81. jfrater - September 26th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
netexile: There are some great websites about the moonlandings which explain the anomalies in the photos from a scientific point
82. netexile - September 27th, 2007 at 9:05 am
Thanks jfrater, I’ll check it out
83. rae - October 2nd, 2007 at 12:38 am
Much as I hate to get involved . . .the Jewish conspiracy should earn its own spot on a new list “Top 10 Conspiracies the Conspirators Know Nothing About”. I’m jewish and I’ve never been brought into this conspiracy, neither has any other Jew I’ve known. I did, however, lose all but three members of my father’s family (my dad’s dad, uncle and aunt) and all history and knowledge of family prior to my maternal grandparents and paternal great-grands in the Holocaust. I also have a memorial book detailing the experiences of the people of my grandfather’s village at the hands of the Nazis. I once worked with a man who still had the numbers the Nazis tattooed him with. So go ahead and tell me it was a hoax.
If you read the Torah, or the jewish version of the old testament, you’ll be surprised to find that g-d didn’t claim to be the ONLY g-d, that other gods were mentioned as if they did exist. The Jews were not to worship them, however gentiles were free to do so, according to g-d. I always wonder why, in the one truth argument, the focus is on how religions differ and therefore, how can they all be true. Why don’t people ever notice what they have in common, since that might be what is the One Truth. If you are wondering, some variation of the Golden Rule, as it is often called, is found in 99% of the worlds religions. (Source: Dear Abby column. Can be found in her archives)
84. jfrater - October 2nd, 2007 at 1:10 am
rae: thanks for the comment. I agree that there could be a whole list dedicated to revisionist history and its flaws. I will add that to my list of lists to write - thanks
85. sagacia - October 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Well done, Rae.
86. Cazz - October 4th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Wow, I live just down the road from Uckfield and I’d never even heard of the Pitdown man! There’s strange things afoot in deepest darkest East Sussex……….
87. jfrater - October 4th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Cazz: I remember reading about Piltdown Man as a kid - it caused quite a furore when it was discovered to be a hoax. Some very important people were suspected to be involved.
88. Rey - October 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
This sakul person…because everything on the net is believable. =/
89. SubliminalDeath666 - October 24th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Psshh! Mormons, what a bunch of low lives.
90. Peggy - October 26th, 2007 at 5:30 am
The Immaculate Conception.Like i said before,Mary was an unwedded,pregnant female.She would have been stoned to death.
91. Bonnie_ - November 3rd, 2007 at 1:38 pm
We have family in Fort Dodge, Iowa, and have visited the Fort Museum. You can see one of the copies of the Cardiff Giant in the Museum and he’s a hoot.
One of the reasons I think he was just a huge draw for crowds of that time is that the carvers made him anatomically correct…. and generously sized. Very generously. (He’s not, well, aroused, so the kids just giggled that they could see man parts.)
My husband and I snorted and snickered and tried to keep from falling over with laughter. I attempted to be all adult and mom-like. “Look, kids, there’s some Indian arrowheads in this other room of the museum!”
Thanks for the list, jfrater. Please think about banning Sakul. I feel like showering the filth off me after reading his comments. I would hate to think he would hang out at your lovely and non-political site, stinking it up for the fun people who post here. Just my opinion.
92. jfrater - November 4th, 2007 at 8:37 am
Bonnie_: that is hilarious - thanks for sharing
93. Lasse - November 6th, 2007 at 8:19 am
What if God planted the bible, the Quaran, the Tora, etc. etc. as a hoax, just to fuck with us?
94. september78 - November 7th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
i’m not sure if this story is known outside of Germany, but back in the 80s a big german news magazine claimed to have found hitler’s diaries - which of course had been produced.
please look at this link for further info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_diaries
95. amanda - November 7th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
Sakul, anyone that really has a six figure income knows that it’s tacky and very low class to talk about money. This is a friendly and intelligent site where most people know what they’re talking about, or are curious to learn. Please leave the nastiness and propaganda to sites like TMZ.
96. davo - November 22nd, 2007 at 7:11 pm
All religions should be on this list.
97. Chris Dashiell - November 24th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Nice list, but you forgot MacPherson’s Ossian and the Hitler diaries.
98. Sarah - December 3rd, 2007 at 6:08 pm
the alien looks pregnate lol
awesome list
if it was more then 10, the taco liberty bell one would have to be on here lol
99. Bob - December 8th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
I don’t think ridiculing someone’s religion is a hoax, and the fact that you are constantly putting down mormons is sad.
100. potato - December 25th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
how can any of you say that a religion is a hoax? have you ever studied any of these religions? you dont really have any room to talk if you dont understand what youre talking about….also who really has the right to say what religions are real or which ones are right? and as far as the millions or people “fooled” by these “hoaxes”… atleast theyre making an attempt to follow the lord which im sure is getting them bonus points with the big guy upstairs
101. Mystern - December 28th, 2007 at 10:48 am
It’s interesting the more I read this site the more anti-LDS stuff I find. I think it’s funny actually. Thanks for pointing out the Book of Abraham. I never actually knew about that (being raised a good ol Mormon boy).
In response to the argument “Who created God” I’ve found that most Christians reply “God has always existed and is the same yesterday, today and forever.” To which I ask, “Then why did God create humans?” Did he get lonely? Why did God create Earth? Why did God create Angles? Why, really, did God create anything?
I think it’s worth noting that there is no justifiable evidence that there is any reason God would want to create anything at all. If God existed forever before Creation then He would have to have been happy with the way things were.
As far as the Big Bang goes, leading scientists now believe the universe has always existed . . . just not in it’s current state. Here are a couple excellent articles.
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/feb/cover
http://discovermagazine.com/2004/feb/cover
If you have trouble imagining that, just think about every single particle in, say a basketball, colliding with another basketball. The difference between this and two basketballs colliding in our world is that the second basketball is multidimensional thus “squeezing” between all the other particles until the actual collision. Oh yeah, and the two basketballs are each traveling at a billion km/second.
Though it should be noted that there are alternate theories to the Big Bang, http://discovermagazine.com/20.....-big-bang/
102. Mystern - December 28th, 2007 at 10:50 am
hmmm . . . my comment didn’t get posted . . . did it get marked as spam? I included a few links to the Discover Magazine website . . .
103. Mystern - December 28th, 2007 at 10:50 am
Oh nevermind . . . I’m just impatient.
104. GingerLee - January 12th, 2008 at 5:58 am
I do have something to add about the Book of Mormon- technically speaking the book was indeed written by one man, Moroni. He took the writings of the other prophets in North America and rewrote them on the Golden Plates. It’s somewhere in the Book of Moroni when he was hiding out in the Appalachia he rewrote all that he had because he feared the apostasy of the Nephites and Lamanites would destroy the “word of God.”
So there is an explanation for jfrater pointing out that the book seems to have been written by one man.
Now, one thing I want to know is how Nephi killed Laban with an steel sword 2000 years before the first iron was forged.
* Note: I’m just playing devil’s advocate here. I was once Mormon…that is until I reached the age of reason, but I still graduated from seminary with as much knowledge about Mormon scripture as my seminary teachers.
105. Mystern - January 14th, 2008 at 6:40 am
Ginger: That’s interesting. I was always taught that Moroni compiled the golden plates, not rewrote them. I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that I was taught differently. I’d also like to point out that the bible was compiled by a few men and it’s still painfully obvious that it was written by different hands. Even if it was rewritten that would make it all the book of Moroni.
I also think JFrater has a point, even when something is transcribed and the language is cleared up by the scribe, many of the idiosyncrasies of the original author remain.
106. D Kelley - January 15th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Don’t put down religions just because you don’t happen to believe what they say. Stick to the things you can actually prove are hoaxes and leave religion out of it.
107. Ginger Lee - January 17th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Mystern: That’s just what they drilled into my head during my dark ages in the LDS church. That was the explication I was given when I was about 15. As Moroni translated the writings of the NoAm prophets, so did Joesph Smith translate the BOM. One of the reasons I left, there was never a cohesive answer to anything that wasn’t related to sex.
I’m of the mind that most religious scriptures have a genuine connection to the “source” of all this mess we call Earth. I love the Qur’an, Bible, etc as much as I love the BOM, but in the end they both contain a whole lot of bullshit that is unreasonable.
108. Mystern - January 18th, 2008 at 6:38 am
Ginger: Yeah I’ve pretty much given up on religion. I would still say that I believe in God but I don’t believe in mankind or mankind’s interpretation of God.
109. liveandletlive - January 19th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Of course it’s true,the fundamental premises of the “Holocaust” story are demonstrably false:
1. there was no extermination order or intent
2. there was no extermination policy
3. there was no extermination industry(or “homocidal gas-chambers”)
3. 6 million “Jews” were not “exterminated”.
What there was was persecution, forced emigration and war-industry labor, and eventually, system-breakdown and disease epidemics.
One does not have to think that the Nazis were right or heroes, nor does one have to be “nuts” to reject the accuracy of the Official History. The idea of Nazis(and Germans) as the ultimate personification of evil and man’s inhumanity towards man, and the “Jews’ as the world’s most innocent victims is a useful political/legal tool for individual and groupings of “Jews” to eliminate effective opposition from non-”Jews”.
Oh, the Official Version of what HIV/AIDS is is also so much HOGWASH too.
http://video.google.com/videop.....2132861595
Of course, these aren’t famous yet.
110. Barrington James - January 20th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
I think the funniest, most successful hoax of all time has to be Einstein. While working full time as a third class patent clerk in Switzerland, this university drop out, without a lab, previous experience or success in the field , claims to have done the work, all by himself, that took the world’s greatest scientists over 50 years to do. When questioned about this miracle he could only say that it all came to him while asleep.
His thesis, in truth, was just a layman’s summary of the previous work of the giants in the field but without the footnotes or complex mathematical equations which he, in fact, did not understand. Furthermore, once he came to America, where he had all the opportunities he lacked in Switzerland, he discovered nothing. Moreover, he was considered so out of it that he was not even asked to help build the bomb. And yet his myth lives on. Amazing. He made P.T. Barnum look like a piker.
111. Derek - January 25th, 2008 at 3:01 am
I think that it is pretty funny how there is just an all out war on the lds church. How is it that you who claim to have been mormon can say that at 15 you graduated from seminary with “all” of the knowledge of your seminary teachers? So now 15 year old’s who don’t pay attention in school and even less in a religion calss are going to know as much as the teacher? Pa-lease! Who are any of you to criticize something of value and importance, when you do nothing to research other than doing a wikipedia search to find all of your “credible” information. Have you studied? Would anyone who is an “expert” take your opinion as something more than a grain of salt? Who are any of us to critize any religion?
All of these claims that Joseph Smith was a trickster and created the book of mormon for his personal gain are rediculous. Do you even know how the man lived? Do you know how impoverished and persecuted he was? What did he gain? The man was beat, tortured, tarred and feathered. For what? For translating a book that has never been proved to be written by one person as so many of you claim.
If you are going to claim that it is a hoax and that the book of abraham is this common scroll that was commonly burried with corpses… show some proof. It shouldn’t be too hard. I mean the internet is a very reliable source of information.
112. jfrater - January 25th, 2008 at 3:11 am
Derek: http://zarahemlacitylimits.com/BOA/BOA_TOC.html
That URL is for a very indepth study of the original papyrus done by an Egyptologist. He presents the Mormon “translation” beside the Egyptologist’s translation - it doesn’t get much simpler really - the Book of Abraham is not about Abraham - not even remotely. That means that Joseph Smith lied when he said it was - he knew that he had no idea what it meant - he simply made it all up.
113. Derek - January 25th, 2008 at 3:59 am
jfrater-
Why don’t you take some time and look through this site: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham.shtml
114. jfrater - January 25th, 2008 at 4:37 am
Derek: thanks for the link - I have read parts of that site before. Unfortunately it is all speculation and even refers to some “unorthodox” history keeping by the LDS in order to validate parts of the argument in favor of the book. Putting aside whether the papyrus is the same one Smith translated, the ACTUAL translation made by Smith contains a great number of chronological errors - it could not have been written at the time of Abraham because it refers to things that simply did not exist at that time. For example:
If you had read the site I suggested you would have known that
I must only presume that you did not read the site as you are probably so strong in your beliefs that nothing will shake it. That is fine.
115. Mystern - January 25th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Derek: I will admit that I did not graduate from seminary (which happens at the age of 18 here in UT, not 15), but I did attend for 3 years straight. Now, I’m not saying that I know more about religion than the teachers, but I will say that what the teachers said varied from classroom to classroom. I will also say that when it comes official canon and doctrine, I know a hell of a lot more than most people. I was always that kid who was first to offer a prayer or raise his hand in Sunday school. I’ve become disillusioned with the church, not because of any single great thing, but rather a number of little things that just don’t add up.
The church is not a bad thing. It helps a great many people. All I’m saying is that it didn’t add up for me.
If you have unshakable faith, I applaud you, for I could not maintain mine.
116. Dave - February 1st, 2008 at 3:42 pm
As an Australian musician, I feel a duty to respond to anton lefevre’s comment (18.)
It’s quite clear that he is attempting and succeeding to create some humour but people who are ignorant of these matters could easily become confused.
Firstly, Australians are not embarrassed by any part of their bodies. Australians are tall, bronzed Adonis or Aphrodite lookalikes who are, nevertheless, still humble in the presence of those with inferior physiques.
Secondly, the musical scale is far more fascinating than his post suggests. Middle C on a piano happens to be a sine-wave at a frequency of 256Hz. The C one octave up has a frequency of 512Hz and the one below has a frequency of 128Hz. Anyone familiar with base-2 mathematics will instantly recognise those numbers as all being powers of 2. Each octave doubles the frequency. Not only is there a powers-of-two sequence in the musical scale but there also exists the Fibonacci sequence. The Fibonacci sequence goes 1,1,2,3,5,8,13 and you will find that there is 1 white key between every 1 black key on a piano keyboard, the black keys are grouped in groups of 2 and 3, there are 5 black keys and 8 white keys in every scale which makes a total of 13 notes in a chromatic scale.
Best of all, the western musical system as we know it was defined by one of our most well known and gifted mathematicians: Pythagoras.
Given all of this, it is clear that with eight alphabetic letters to denote the different notes of the scale, each one having flat, natural and sharp modifications and yet only thirteen individual notes in a chromatic scale that there would have to be some doubling up. It is very rare in music to find a B# or an Fb because those notes are more commonly known as C and E. Strangely enough, Cb is still reasonable common whereas E# is not.
Nonetheless, I have never seen a musician trying to convince anyone that there are actually 24 different notes in an octave or that there are 24 available scales. Therefore it is inconceivable that anyone else could have seen such a thing and furthermore the claims that the fictitious musician’s claims are not true are not true.
QED.
117. Maxx - February 7th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Being a reader of conspiracy sites, I would like to supplement sakul’s angry diatribe with some of the info that I have accrued over months of reading among the insane and interesting world of conspiracy theory, specifically what one would call the jewish conspiracy that sakul was speaking of.
Disclaimer:
I don’t know if any of the information I am presenting is true.
I don’t care if it is true, I am just reprinting what I have read.
Even if it is true I still don’t care, I am amazingly apathetic.
Many conspiracy theoriest beleive in what is often mislabled a “jewish conspiracy” while in reality they believe in a “zionist conspiracy”
Zionism is school of thought that Jewish people should have their own nation.
Not all Jews are zionist, and not all zionists are jews, many people accuse George W. and most of the presidents of the last half century of being zionists due to their support of israel. This is a major point of contention between the middle-east and the western world.
Holocaust deniers believe that around 500,000 jewish people died during the early 40s, as opposed to the 6 million that is accepted by mainstream history.
They site a red cross census done in 1938 and 1948 in which the number of jewish people in europe rises from like 8.6 million to like 9.4 million in ten years, or something like that. And claim that this makes the 6 million figure impossible.
They also claim that the red cross was allowed in the camps after 1942 to bring medical supplies in.
They claim that the Jewish Talmud gives Jewish people the right to do anything they would like to non-jewish people, as they are not considered to be human beings. (A very common theme in all monotheistic religious texts)
They claim that all of the movie studios in hollywood, except united artists, were started by jewish people.
They also claim that the 3 main media companies are owned by Jewish people.
And last but not least, they claim that there is no law against slavery in israel, only two guidelines, that anyone enslaved may not be jewish, and that anyone enslaved may not be from Israel.
Once again, I do not know if any of this is true. If anyone would like to do research into this and post it I would love that, but I am too lazy to do it my self.
I read these things for entertainment purposes, and am reposting them as such.
And whether they are true or not , although I am highly interested in knowing the validity of these things, I really dont care because it does not really affect me.
118. carbeu - February 10th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
What about the Y2k “Hoax”
119. Yaskedasu - February 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Well… I think those schoolgirls were pretty clever to have fooled all those people with the fairies. (Although admittedly one can tell they are paper if one looks hard enough.) They got Arthur Conan Doyle with their hatpins and childrens book illustrations, you know!
120. 666 - March 5th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Sakul: A snap shot.
Probably an Iranian, Palistinian or Hamas terrorist.
Not very bright.
Very angry.
Somewhat disturbing.
Not a scientist (NO WAY).
Very gullible.
A bigoted liar.
121. Religious Boyz911 - May 5th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Wow That Book Of Morman Thing Is Racist Take It Off
122. jfrater - May 5th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Religious Boyz911: Definition of Race: “Prejudice or discrimination based on an individual’s race” - the Book of Mormon thing is not racist.
123. warningdontreadthis - May 10th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Jfrater: How do you even write these lists? I should think it’s almost a frightening task to write about religion and stuff especially, when so many people believe in what you write. It seems like it would be very easy to write something that’s wrong and have a few hundred people complaining about it.
What kind of sources do you use? Just the internet or books too?
124. Cath - May 17th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Mormon was the editor and compiler of the book, as Joseph Smith was the translator. Many different ancient prophets and seers recorded the different parts of the Book of Mormon. As the Bible has different authors for different books and epistles within it, so does the Book of Mormon.
John L. Hilton and his group have done detailed stylometic analyses of parts of the Book of Mormon “based on the somewhat surprising fact that every author studied thus far subconsciously uses sixty-five identifiable patterns, involving words like “and,” “the,” “of,” and “that,” at a statistically significant different rates from others.” (Welch, “Reexploring the Book of Mormon” pg. 221.)
This statistical analysis estimates the odds of one person writing the “Nephi” and “Alma” sections evaluated to be one in one thousand. Neither Joseph Smith nor any other single person could have written the Book of Mormon.
125. Cath - May 17th, 2008 at 11:47 am
*wikipedia*
The Book of Mormon witnesses are a group of contemporaries of Joseph Smith, Jr. who said they saw the golden plates from which Smith said he translated the Book of Mormon. The most significant witnesses are the Three Witnesses and the Eight Witnesses, who each signed statements in 1830 included with the Book of Mormon.
here is the site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.....er_Witness
also note:
Apologists note that Harris and Cowdery later returned to the fellowship of the church. Additionally, it is widely cited by leaders of the LDS church that none of the witnesses ever denied their testimony as it was written in the Book of Mormon, or denied that Smith was a true prophet when he translated the book
126. Cath - May 17th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
i am not trying to “convert” anyone, just do proper research before you make your lists.
and the other thing you mentioned, that the Book of Mormon quotes the bible, well here’s why..
many sections in the Book of Mormon resemble Bible passages because many direct quotes are used. Just as much of the New Testament consists of citations from the Old, so the Book of Mormon writers regularly cite the ancient Hebrew scriptures. Lehi and the group that left Jerusalem in 600 B.C. carried with them a set of brass plates that contained many Old Testament writings, such as those of Moses and Isaiah, as well as some writings that have since been lost. These scriptures - especially Isaiah - are heavily quoted.
127. Axleblade - May 18th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
I think i speak on every nice person in heres behalf when i say that we dont have anything personal against mormons, its just there book sounds really fake, i mean come on, some random guy meets an angel, rewrites this book off “golden” tablets with special glasses and then he doesn’t get to keep the evidence? please
PERSONALLY i dont believe in any religion, because theres no hard core proof the bible is the greatest story book of all time, no proof that jesus performed these awesome miracles, if these magical people trully existed then why aren’t there any today, no angel sitings,and such. The fact is that all this stuff makes great entertainment, they didnt have tv, computers, news networks or hot shot technology.
As for Sakul: you make me sick, not believing in the Holocaust, whats wrong with you, we have evidenc; pictures, eye witnesses, all sorts of stuff, if Hitler wasn’t killing the jews then wtf was with all “kill all the jews” and concentration camps, he wasn’t fucking hiding them in the siberian desert cuz he didn’t actually want to kill them.
128. Glowbug - June 5th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
You left out a neat bit of trivia about the Cardiff Giant. When P.T. Barnum learned that the thing was a hoax (and saw how monstrously successful the showings of the thing was), he coined one of the most famous sayings of all time - “There’s a sucker born every minute”.
129. Tempyra - June 25th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Interesting list. I’d heard of most of these before, but not The Turk or the Priory of Sion. I did read The Da Vinci Code but can’t remember anything about the Priory - it wasn’t a particularly memorable book though.
130. watcher - July 24th, 2008 at 8:05 am
forget who is Jewish,or Mormon……….anyone ever read any background on the jesuits? they are responsible for forming the federal reserve,ww1,ww2,wtc,Titanic,JFK,etc……terrorists for Papal Rome…….who funded the bolsheviks to overthrow protastant Russia? American taxpayers,thru the federal reserve…..its the jesuits bank,to fund any and all forms of attacks on Americas morals…..before you scoff,do some background research………..
131. Vera Lynn - July 24th, 2008 at 10:14 am
crazygirl and Stephen (20,21)
As far as the big bang goes, it wasn’t some random huge explosion, it was the precise moment that energy became matter. That is a fascinating thing to contemplate. Read about fundamental particles and the Standard Model. The SM is the most precise mathematical formula ever.
132. Vera Lynn - July 24th, 2008 at 10:16 am
RE Sakul
People like this are scare me. Their thinking is toxic. I hope he never has children. I don’t think he posts here anymore (I am coming to this list very late). Was he blocked like S_R?
133. luke - July 31st, 2008 at 11:35 am
This list was written by an idiot wasn’t it?
134. emc - August 3rd, 2008 at 5:43 am
In relation to the comment posted regarding the map of Australia, (Anton - 18 [15]) I believe the reference is actually regarding the map of Tasmania, a state of Australia. It is Australian slang and if used in context would sound something like this - Crikey Shazza, put some clothes on, I can see your map of Tasmania!
135. Shunyata - August 20th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
I have read this thread and I have a comment.
My dad came home from WW2 with all these photos he had taken of various death camps he had been to while serving in the US military as it rolled across Europe in 1944. There were hundreds of photos of dead bodies piled 2 or 3 stories high. The soldiers took plenty of photos because they were told to record what they saw so the world would not forget. I know some holocaust survivors. This genocide of Jews and other people that the Nazis considered subhuman actually happened. There is no way this could be a hoax.
I was raised a Mormon and left the church as soon as I was old enough to choose, about 14. I agree that Smith made up just about all that he put into the Book of Mormon. But my point is that this does not make the LDS church a hoax. There are millions of people in this church, including some hundreds of my relatives and even though I do not agree that the BOM is historic or accurate I would say that these Mormons are some of the nicest and most generous people I know. Judge them by the fruits of their actions someone once said.
136. Ryan - August 20th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
just a little background on me before i get started. I don’t believe in religion. It’s man made and has killed many people. I do how ever believe that jesus, son of god, died so that i can get into heaven. i am a spiritual person.
as far as the book of mormon: watch the southpark episode on mormans and that’s pretty much how i feel. “i don’t care if it’s true or not. I have a great life and a great family and i have the book of mormon to thank for that.”
I don’t know much about mormons so i’m not really one to say but that’s my two cents. I’m happy for those of you who are truley happy.
as far as the no god thing: obviously i feel very strongly about that. lack of proof doesn’t disprove something. that’s why it’s called faith. i have faith that god exists and loves me and all of the people on here that don’t believe.
again with the southpark (matt stone and trey parker are definatly two of the greatest modern phylosiphers) : “couldn’t evolution be the answer to how, not the answer to why” i took this statement as meaning that god may have created the first spark of life that eventually caused humanity. you may think i’m retarded but i don’t take the bible literraly. I believe it is a tool to help us live by. again i have faith and my faith isn’t blind, but i also know that not every thing always adds up. I have faith that when i die it will be explained to me.
i liked very much what rae (83) had to say about god. now i don’t want to be like all those confused “cristians” by saying that you’ll burn in hell if you don’t believe, but i will say this to the non-believers: i WILL go to heaven when i die, i will not rot in a box for all eternity(even though my body might).
on my final thought. everyone here has the right to their own opinions. you have the right to choose to believe in god or not. and mormons you have the right to believe this list or not. all i hope for humanity is that we can be civil in our disagreements.
137. Ryan - August 20th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
another thing i should add is that if any of you had taken a simple statistics or speech class you would know how to search for CREDIBLE SOURCES. (MAINLY FOR SAKUL). unfortunatly i do agree that although most of wiki is for real it can be changed by anyone so it is therefor not credible. jfrater does a great job of recognizing the challenge of his sources and then producing more credible ones than wiki.
138. JSmith_devil_jew - August 21st, 2008 at 7:24 am
all you are retarded
there is no god, its like believing in the tooth fairy
it doesnt matter if 50 000 000 people believe in the tooth fairy, does that mean she exists?
maybe there are 1 000 people who claim to have see her and to have gotten $5 from her under their pillow, and they can show you the evidence. that doesnt mean Sh*t, but in this world everyone is so inseccure and needs something to ‘believe’ in, so people latch onto anything. as they did thousands of years ago when a few men got together and decided they wanted people to follow them.
and yes, lack of evidence along with lack of logic DOES prove lack of existance. you can be nieve and cross your fingers and hope to find a higher meaning in life, but like everyone else you will live and die and all you will have to show for it is a nice funeral where people read from the same story book that u spend years believing in.
ps. science is the truth. anything not proved by science is theorized by science and will be proved in due time.
mormans and scientology are great people to have around… i enjoy the humour that they provide. keep up the good hoaxing guys
how about you all just take a little break from ur internet chats and have a life, instead of debating history, these debates will be going on long after you’re dead and your posts will soon be forgotten.
cheers
139. JSmith_devil_jew - August 21st, 2008 at 7:25 am
i hope i didnt offend anyone
140. J