Top 10 Badass Guard Dogs

1. dangorironhide - November 13th, 2007 at 6:55 am

I’ve only heard of the first 3 of those breeds haha

I always thought the rottweiler was the nastiest

2. jfrater - November 13th, 2007 at 7:00 am

I have to say I don’t like the look of most of these!

3. Laura - November 13th, 2007 at 7:09 am

Where’s chihuahuas? The nastiest dogs I have ever met, the ones that will attack without warning and guard whatever they feel is important with their lives have all been small, spoiled, yippy chihuahuas and yorkies. All the major dogs you just listed have been the biggest teddy bears… though they are also big and formidable looking and guard however they’re trained to guard, it seems that due to their size they perhaps go through more training than some little piss dog that gets spoiled rotten by an idiot suburbanite princess.

4. jfrater - November 13th, 2007 at 7:29 am

Laura: heh you seem to have a very strong hatred of chihuahuas - have you had a bad experience?

5. StewWriter - November 13th, 2007 at 7:44 am

I had a Lhasa Apso once that hated everyone, and especially the bottoms of furniture… nasty thing.

6. Clues - November 13th, 2007 at 7:46 am

I believe I have the most bad ass breed. His name is Vader and he lives up to it. Even if he is a mixed breed.
He is a Rottweiler(#8) a fighting dog and Shar-Pei (See Below) a war dog .The Shar-Pei is known for being a naturally independent and reserved breed. Shar-Peis are often suspicious of strangers, which is related to their origins as guard dogs. Nevertheless, the Shar-Pei is extremely devoted, loyal and affectionate to its family, and is amenable to accepting strangers given time and proper introduction. If poorly socialized or trained, it can become especially territorial and aggressive.
Even friendly and well-socialized individuals will retain the breed’s watch dog proclivities (such as barking at strangers). Chinese Shar-Pei were originally bred for fighting in China. Whilst this breed is adorable it is also very protective of its home and family, a powerful dog that is willing to guard its family members at all costs. The breed is amenable to training, but can get bored from repetition. Overall, the Shar-Pei is a dog that is loyal and loving to its family while being very protective & independent.
(Wikipedia)
He is a blessing to my family. Friends and strangers alike will not come to my home. I have to go to see my friends else where but it is worth it to feel so safe.

7. Stoney Berke - November 13th, 2007 at 8:00 am

Who ever composed this list is not all that familiar with dogs. There is no breed of dog that can wipe the floor with a pitbull. do some research. You want the best guard dog out there get a Fila Brasileiro. Rottweilers are a working dog , like a Doberman , Bullmastiff etc.they are not a fighting dog, they are far from the top of the tough dog food chain. I have a book on fighting dogs and they wanted to dispell the myth of how tough Rotties are. The searched high and low for the toughest Rottie they could find and it happened to be in Puerto Rico. It was matched against a Bandog and was whipped quickly and thoroughly. ( I detest anyone who lets dogs fight by the way , but I do love most fighting breeds. I have owwned a Fila Brasileiro and an American Bulldog.

8. Kelsi - November 13th, 2007 at 8:01 am

Wow. Can I just be the first to say that training goes above and beyond ANY breed characteristics? Personally, Clues, I think you should feel ashamed to have a dog that your friends will not go near. Your dog is clearly poorly trained and not at all in tune with your body language. Dogs are very sensitive animals and can, if trained and conditioned, pick up on your body language towards someone who is unwelcome in your home, or be very friendly towards someone who is welcome. I beleive the best guard dog is one who is completely under control of the owner, yet has the bulk to get the job done, which is I think the only thing you can consider when writing this list. Besides, I hardly can think of a situation outside of law enforcement where having a dog trained to attack would be useful to own. Burglars? Not so much. My dogs go nuts if my mother tickles my brother and he yells…imagine what would happen if they smelled fear and distress! They may be just labs, but they can certainly be intimidating under the right circumstances and I have seen it myself.

9. Morgaine - November 13th, 2007 at 8:31 am

Laura: Amen! Chihuahuas, yorkshires, pekineses, even cockers, have a good reputation in our societies, but are actually the most vicious, resentful and fanciful of them all… It’s quite difficult to give them the appropiate education. It’s like a natural defense method: “I am small, so I will bark louder than any other”
Bigger dogs usually (usually, not always)are more loyal, protective and loving.

Stoney Berke: You are right, though Pit Bulls may be smaller than most of the dogs above, they are pure muscle and agility. And, above all, when a pitbull keeps its bite, there is no way on earth to make it release it. Just waiting for it to get tired
The Fila Brasileiro has been bred for fights for generations, it’s in its instinct, so it has a less protective behaviour. Anyway, it is practically painless, so if you fear being attacked, this is your dog

10. Clues - November 13th, 2007 at 8:34 am

I am not ashamed at all. He is sweet and loving to my family and his Vet. other than that he is happy to have a job and I feel safe that he takes he job seriously. He is trained the way I like him. He is my sons best friend. I would take him over a body guard any day. I muzzle him for walks just so the public is always safe. I am a responsible dog owner. I also have a sweet small lap dog that adores everyone. She is his best friend.We did not train them differently His aggressive behavior comes from his breed and I appreciate him for who he is, but make sure I always have the upper hand. When I wrestle around with my kid Vader cheers us on and has fun with the family.

11. StewWriter - November 13th, 2007 at 8:36 am

I am scared of all of these dogs. A lot. I’ve owned a beagle that was pretty bitter and grouchy and he took on a Rottie once. That Rottie had a sore leg for a while. Big dogs make me nervous regardless of how they’re trained.

12. Ravyn - November 13th, 2007 at 8:44 am

I used to have a pinscher. He was awesome. Got him when he was a bit older and already trained as a junkyard dog. He learned quickly to love me and let me sit within his ring quietly. I also had a rotti. He was an awsome dog. So lovable but so mean when needed (and loved to eat our chickens). Now that I don’t live with my parents, I would like to have a mini pinscher.

I know…. shut up

13. Lasse - November 13th, 2007 at 8:48 am

You forgot the Irish Wolfhound, the biggest breed there is. It could simply take out a pitbull by lying down on it: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/im.....rendan.JPG

14. Patrask - November 13th, 2007 at 8:50 am

Every breed of dog can be trained to be either a vicous killing machine or a cuddly teddy bear. Some is inherited, I’m sure, but mostly it depends on the owner.

Our family and neighbours have 3 dogs; a German Shepherd, Golden Retriever and a Chihuahua. The Shepherd wouldn’t harm a fly. In fact, he’s often seen cuddling with our cat (when said cat is in a good mood, that is :)) and he hasn’t even been castrated. I once dropped a pound of frozen meat on his head, and he jumps up and starts licking me in the face.

The Chihuahua on the other hand… If I see it while walking on the street, I keep my distance and often I decide take another route. That damn thing attacks anything that comes within 10 meters; he nearly bit my finger off once.

The Retriever (our dog) is kinda inbetween. He has the ability to wipe the floor with almost anything (he took on a Pitbull once and tied) but most of the time he’s a cuddly furball.

Then there’s our cat who goes for the eyes when he’s in a bad mood - unprovoked. :-S

15. gabrielAmerican - November 13th, 2007 at 8:51 am

Kelsi, I agree completely. Training and conditioning are the most important factors in a good guard dog. Of course, size helps.
I have a Dutch Shepherd named Minerva. She’s only 30 kg (65 lbs.), not huge, but big enough to be a handful. Originally, the breed was a herding dog, but part of herding a flock involves guarding the flock.
It’s no surprise that this breed is commonly used by law enforcement or as high priced guard dogs. It’s amazing, an uber-trained Dutch Shepherd can cost 10’s of thousands of dollars.
www.dogbreedinfo.com/dutchshepherd.htm

16. Lal - November 13th, 2007 at 8:52 am

Akitas are great watchdogs too. Very protective and intimidating.

17. heavybison - November 13th, 2007 at 8:56 am

This one sure is a bad ass mf..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogue_de_Bordeaux

Anybody who’s seen Turner & Hooch would know…

18. Morgaine - November 13th, 2007 at 9:04 am

Irish wolfhound… Awwww! I want one! ^^
That breed is often used in hunting to scare wild boars…
Common mastiff is pretty big too, and if it’s given love and a good education, it can make a sweet little bunny look vicious
A relative of mine once had one, when I was a kid I used to sit on its back and ride it along the backyard, it was cool

19. yaurt - November 13th, 2007 at 9:10 am

I though about making the list bigger, like top 50 …but i still wouldn’t include the pitbull! guess i just have a problem with them.
And very true, training is everything on a dog.

20. akKris - November 13th, 2007 at 9:13 am

I have Anatolian Shephard Dogs, a livestock guardian breed from Turkey, simular to the Great Pyr’s. I live in Alaska and my pair have protected me from a brown bear attack (the bear decided to leave after confronting the dogs), from a pick up truck full of “young guns” (who decided the dogs would be too much trouble), from a vicious stray dog (who won’t be attacking anyone else) and other various wild things. And yet both are just big teddy bears. In Turkey and other places around the world they protect livestock from the area’s predators. They are being used in Africa to protect against lions, hyenas, etc.

Tell me a chihuahua could do that…

21. bucslim - November 13th, 2007 at 9:15 am

My former neighbor had a wolf cross and that thing was a a superfly TNT mushroom cloud layin mofo. It was close to 4 feet tall. It didn’t have a nasty temperment, although it did yank my glove off one time when I was feeding it when the neighbor was out of town. The glove became shreds a few seconds later.

It was more curious than anything, but very intimidating. When that monster looked at you with interest, it was time to change your shorts. The city animal control folks found out about it and made the owner put it down - no wolf mixes were allowed in town. Kinda sad, but that was one scary beasty.

22. mix2323 - November 13th, 2007 at 9:31 am

yes love my chocolate labs they are great watch dogs very loving to anybody and know when to be aggressive trained to the tee

23. rp - November 13th, 2007 at 10:06 am

Remember that the bigger the dog, the shorter the life span. That giant Irish Wolfhound might live 8 years if you’re lucky. I don’t think I’d want to own anything larger than a Border Collie.

The exception to the rule is the wolf, that can live 15 years or longer. I think that’s one of the main reasons that half-wolf breeds are flourishing.

24. mklong - November 13th, 2007 at 10:30 am

I work at a chic doggy hotel on the east coast. some of our customers bring in some pretty badass dogs, now i weigh 180 pounds but iv had rotties, dobermans, ans swissies just have their way with me.

the only thing worse than trying to get past some of these breeds is trying to keep them somewhere against their will.

i have scars

25. Rick B - November 13th, 2007 at 10:35 am

I see NO REASON why a family should not have one of these dogs as a guard dog. I think any dog, if treated well by the fmaily as a pup, wiil defend that family. I only wish we didn’t have two cats, I would love to have a dog I can leave with the kids and feel they are protected.

26. The Chosen One - November 13th, 2007 at 10:53 am

The Great Pyraneese is a gentle giant compared to the Kuvasz. I Dare you to look up how nasty these dogs can get. They used to attack German soldiers during WWII when they intruded on their property, and most often the soldiers would shoot and kill them. Eventually they learned how loyal they became and used them as guard dogs.

27. DiscHuker - November 13th, 2007 at 10:55 am

bucslim - i love the pulp reference.

i have had several different breeds during my life but i have fallen in love with my black lab. one of the sweetest dogs i’ve ever met(loves to lay in my lap), strong as a bull (he’s 110 pounds), and barks like crazy when someone approaches the front door. now, he might only slobber on them once they come in. but i dare say that anyone with bad intentions would care to open the door with the bark of an unknown big dog on the other side.

28. tony - November 13th, 2007 at 11:02 am

The kuvasz is quite an impressive dog but komondors have been reported to attack bears if they venture too close to its sheep and also have the bite to back up the bravery!! 2 or 3 komondors could most likely kill or seriously would a bear… (komondor is a hungarian sheep dog and is also used as a guard dog! dont be fooled by the mop disguise!)

29. bucslim - November 13th, 2007 at 11:11 am

DiscHuker

It was also the Guns of the Navarone

30. FireAlpha - November 13th, 2007 at 11:24 am

I personally do not care WHAT dog somebody picks as they’re guard dog, b/c the truth is, when you’ve trained your animal to be there for you when you need it, he/she is. End of story.
The only thing about this that is completly false and founded by nothing but the media, is the wolfdog.
I was raised with two, for thirteen years. They are NOT vicious or hard to train, they really don’t eat that much more than any other large animal, and wolves by nature are social animals.. They’re incredibly lovable to those they know. Anyone who knew my two could attest to that in court.
Get your facts straight.

31. jen - November 13th, 2007 at 11:37 am

I vote for more dog (or cat)-related lists.

32. Bonnie_ - November 13th, 2007 at 11:40 am

I owned a Dobie and she was gentle, beautiful and affectionate.

She was the best protection I ever had because she didn’t need to do anything. Her looks were enough.

Advertising has its benefits. Heh.

33. DiscHuker - November 13th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

what about a dog? a dog eats it’s own feces.

34. smac - November 13th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

I used to have a regular Mastiff when I was growing up. Hw weighed about 185 pounds and was generally friendly and loyal, although he was very stupid. People were always scared to come to our house because he had this loud bark and, of course, he was huge. He had to be put down when he was nine years old because he had bad hips and his digestive tract was messed up, but he was a good dog while we had him.

i don’t mind having a big friendly dog for protection, but I’d be afraid the more aggressive ones would turn on me and try to kill me - like those Rottweilers or Dobermans.

35. Joe - November 13th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

Wow, 34 posts on badass dogs and no one mentioned Cujo.

36. blitz - November 13th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

Stoney ur full of shit,
my German Shepherd Dog got into a fight with a neighbors Pit Bull and kicked his ass. Because what good is a Pit Bull’s teeth if they could’nt get through my Longhaired German Shepherd Dog’s fur? Yea, my dog whiped the floor with him. Pit Bull’s are not invincible.

37. JK - November 13th, 2007 at 1:39 pm

A little info. for ya. Pitbulls are Not good guard dogs. First, a guard dog has to be loyal to the property/owner. That means it has to have some sort of pack mentality. Pitbulls have never been bred with this mentality, they are for fighting. Second, there is a dog called a Presa Cannary, the Cannary Islands are named for the dogs indigenous to them. These dogs are as large as great danes. A pitbull averages 1600psi biting pressure. Presa Cannary’s average well over 2000psi. Dog trainers have to order specially made arm guards to train them, for the standard guard is easily crushed by their massive jaws. Another thing, they are illegal in the US and are known to be smuggled in by drug dealers. Also, the Argentine Dogo is extremely dangerous and intellegent. They are bred for hunting large cats, panthers and such in the argentine jungles. They follow for weeks, just in sight, and wait for the animal they are hunting to become complacent with their presence, and then attack, to the death. If you ever come across this animal, and it won’t look at you, YOU ARE IN DANGER.

38. mix2323 - November 13th, 2007 at 1:52 pm

like i said before i have a chocolate lab and it has also got in to a fight with a pit bull and the pit was my friends dog my lab tore it up my dog got a gash or two but my friend was pissed come on a lab pits are just way over rated

39. blackmamba - November 13th, 2007 at 1:59 pm

we had a german shepherd and she was the sweetest dog ever.

our dachsund, on the other hand, he’s ferocious! he won’t bite strangers, but he’s eager to pee on them.

40. Sarah - November 13th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

when i was little i always had this dream that a doberman was chasing me.
I always woke up right before he bit me.

German shepards [[well the ones i know]] are really nice…but some are just to scared to do anything lol

41. Eric - November 13th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

The Caucasian Ovcharka is NOT for the average owner! They are downright dangerous if they’re not handled properly. I’ve been to the part of the world where they originated, and there are very good reasons to breed enormous, vicious dogs. Wolves, bears, Chechen terrorists, robbers….not a nice place. And their dogs reflect the environment.

42. Eric - November 13th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

By the way: Wolves are not “vicious”. They are, in fact, extremely timid, skittish and fearful. That’s why they make dangerous pets. Hybrids can range from calm and sweet to psychotic, and everything in-between. It depends on the breeding and the individual animal. But wolves themselves are “fear-biters.”

43. Monkey - November 13th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

I love Rottweilers, and I’d like to have one someday. I grew up with German Shepherds. The first one I had was very sweet, but really strong. My father was playing frisbee with her once and she jumped on him and broke 2 of his ribs. The second one I had we adopted when she was an adult and she’d been abused. She loved me, but she was CRAZY and could be vicious with strangers. We couldn’t take her for walks and we had to put her outside if someone came over. Also, my neighbor had a Doberman who was very sweet and actually kind of stupid, she was a nice dog. So there are my dog stories It’s so true that the way they’re raised is more important than the breed.

44. Jake - November 13th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

Pitbulls would beat all of those dogs in a fight typically. Though they are smaller, they are very quick and basically are just one huge biting muscle. However, a human, let’s say armed with a knife just so he/she had a chance, would have a much easier time defending beating a pitbull because they are shorter and not heavy enough to tackle you flat out.

My point is that the list of guard dogs includes animals much better than a pit for protecting your home against an armed intruder, but they could not just mop the floor with a pitbull any time. And yes, better training and luck with the individual dog choice will trump breed most of the time.

45. yaurt - November 14th, 2007 at 12:25 am

Jake: Lost of people (actually about 5) posted stories about pitbulls gettin’ their asses kicked, even by a lab, who’s not even on the dangerous dogs list (we have this list in romania, and if you want to own some breed from the list, you must have a permiss, just like for a gun), i also saw a German Shorthaired Pointer beat the crap out of a pitbull. I’m not sayin’ pitbulls are pussies, but they are not invincible.
Eric: you’re right, caucasian shephards are pretty wild. I own one, now he’s 3 years old and only three people can get near him. I also have a 5 years Rotti that’s just as sweet as they can get, she sleeps with the cats, and she loves to lick them

46. yaurt - November 14th, 2007 at 12:54 am

Oh yeah… Eric. If he wants to eat me, i call it vicious, no matter how friendly he is to others!

47. Dunfire - November 14th, 2007 at 4:52 am

I had a Rhodesian Ridgeback, that would without a doubt die defending her family. She was very gentle around people she knew, but strangers were wise to keep their distance. The downside to Rhodesian Ridgeback’s are congental spine problems that pops up without careful breeding. The were used in South Africa to hunt lions.

48. jfrater - November 14th, 2007 at 5:15 am

Dunfire: Rhodesian Ridgeback dogs are lovely - I had some friends in NZ that had one.

49. roxy - November 14th, 2007 at 6:59 am

wow. whoever wrote this list did the most minimal of research. as a veterinarian technician, i judge each dog on an individual basis.

the best gaurd dogs are ones socialized well with the family and little else. a large breed, such as a Rotti or GSD, can and will be the sweetest push-overs if well-socialized OUTSIDE of the family.

as far as guard dogs go, the Cane Corso, Akita, and Kuvasz are in my top 5. the other 2 breeds that exel at property guarding are the Caucasian Ovcharka, and the Belgium Malanios.

believe it or not, the 2 most difficult patients i ever had to deal with where a Rottwieler and a Springer spaniel. yup. the Rotti was a yard-dog. isolated from it’s family, chained for years, and had an eye injury. he severly mauled me; partly for my ignorance, partly for his owner’s ignorance.

the Springer Spaniel had a condition known as “Rage Syndrome” which is a very rare epilipetic condition that occurs in some Spanielss and Bull Terriers.they just go “psycho dog” for a moment, a glitch in their mind, a random mis-firing of stimuli, and randomly seize and bite anything within reach-be it a human petting it, a corner of the couch, or another animal. Damn inbreeding.

roxy

50. yaurt - November 14th, 2007 at 8:43 am

When the list was made, it was only considered the size and ability to take on human atackers. Of course training and the level of socialization are important, but that’s just not the point here.

51. stizzo - November 14th, 2007 at 8:54 am

that beggining statement is retarded.it makes pitbulls sound pansey wich is in no way true. ive had 2 pits and they were the best dogs ive ever had and they could destroy most other dogs.and people who think pits are “natural bprn killers” are dumb as hell.pitbulls are the best.german shepards are gay…peace

52. Yarr - November 14th, 2007 at 9:12 am

I have a 16-week old Doberman right now and have been training her to do fun stuff rather than guard stuff. Most dogs don’t need to be trained to be protective– as social animals, it’s in their blood to protect the pack. People that train their dogs to be mean (to anyone) are just asking for trouble in my opinion.
Even now, when someone (like the pizza guy) comes to the door, Scout will come sit next to my foot and just keep an eye on things. I didn’t train her to do that, but I can tell that if there was trouble she would try to help. (Though she’s too small right now to really do anything.)
I’m not calling anyone out here, but I have to say that many, if not most people that get a fighting and/or bad reputation breed of dog are studies in immaturity or trying to impress someone rather than finding a loving friend and member of the family.
I grew up with German Shepherds. My best friend had a Dobie. When it came time to get a puppy, we looked at Shepherds, but my wife was allergic to the pups, so we checked out Dobies because I was familiar with them and knew them to be sweet and loving (not mean). The Dobie pups didn’t upset her allergies, so that’s who came home with us.
The problem with ‘training’ agressive behavior into your dog, is that they won’t always know who is a threat or who isn’t. They will bite a burglar, but they might also bite a friend or acquaintance who also just happens to be afraid of dogs. Fear smells the same to them. They don’t speak ‘Human’ so they have no way to discern bad intention from innocent, natural fear.
Look up rescue sites for Dobermans, Shepherds, Pit Bulls, etc, and you will (sadly) find hundreds of dogs that someone paid a lot of money for that had to be gotten rid of because someone decided to turn them into a weapon that they then could not control.
Scout will be the perfect ‘guard dog’ because she is a dog, and because she barks. It won’t be because I exploited her negative attributes.

53. yaurt - November 14th, 2007 at 11:23 am

Stizzo …this is my first “mean” post…but i must say it. You really are retarded. You had 2 pits that could DESTROY most other dogs so they are the best ? common…you sound like a 13 years old kid “my dog would beat every dog in the world!” …
And german shepherds are gay ?! Dude!!! What’s the wolrds most common breed used by K9 units ?
And i’m sain’ this for the last time! This list was based ONLY on the ability of a dog to take on a HUMAN atacker, due to it’s size and ( + guard training) protective behavior.
I’m sick of people who think that if they favourite rapper had a pitpull, they must get one because he looks scary and then wants to show off with them to look badass!
7 of the dogs posted here can take on a black bear, and they ussualy do, just like another 30 breeds of dogs, because that’s what they are used for! So don’t you come and tell me that a dog can take on a 200kg black bear (and survive, i’m not sayin that it will kill him) but your 30kgs pitbull is better!

54. D - November 14th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

Wow, only one person mentioned the Presa Canario.
In my opinion they are the most badass canine there is. Theye are a breed that needs lots and lots of training as a pup and constant working with even as they get older but are awesome animals. Do some research on them. Next I own two dogs now, first one is a purebreed Rotti @ 100lbs and I also have a rhodesian and Rotti mix @ 95lbs. both are rescue dogs and are the best dogs I have ever had in my family and would not hesitate to take down anyone that they felt were a threat to my wife or me.

55. Julia - November 14th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

Wow… Okay, quick thing; what type of dogs are used for security purposes with companies? And police dogs? And for pretty much any professional service that requires a badass dog? Not pitbulls, that’s all I can tell you. They may be great for kicking other dogs all over the place.. However.. That means next to nothing if the person breaking into your house doesn’t have a dog, which, I can promise you, they won’t. Irish wolfhounds are, as previously mentioned, the largest dog if you just want a scary LOOKING dog… However.. They are actually quite mellow, and, frankly, would be awful at guarding anything, since they are quite easily frightened, and bark quite infrequently.
The list of dogs compiled above is a rather decent one.. I have to say I don’t disagree with any of their choices. Number seven, though, is a bit iffy- I know one of those dogs, my best friend owns one, and he’s the sweetest dog I’ve ever known. Cute, fluffy, and mellow, I don’t think he’d be very good at much other than being a great family pet, and a herding dog.
Anyway, so, my main point here is, though I took a while to get to it, pitbulls are a horrible idea if you’re seriously trying to guard something valuable, even if you trust the pitbull with your life, which, in many cases, I wouldn’t. They’re not very large, they have very thin fur, and not enough muscle mass to take on much more than other dogs and maybe an unarmed person. Most of the dogs listed above could probably take some serious abuse and still get their job done with minimal damage to themselves. A pitbull.. I don’t think so.

56. yaurt - November 15th, 2007 at 12:23 am

Thank you Julia

57. D - November 15th, 2007 at 9:42 am

to continue my post from above. Also as a testament to the abuse in which a rotti can take. My wife and I were hiking at Nelson Ledges State Park one day and my two year old purebreed rotti accidentally fell down a three foot wide crevass and dropped approx. 25 feet or so into it hit the rocks at the bottom then proceeded to tumble end over end downward for another 30 feet or so. I expected to look over the edge and see a dead dog but to my amazement she was allready back on her feet and trying to climb back up as far as she could. she did not whimper or whine once and was checked by her vet and recieved not one injury, no limping or even tenderness to her body. Hows that for a tough pup!

58. tuffstuff - November 15th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

I have never heard of majority of those dogs. The Caucasian Shepherd has to be the biggest dog I have ever seen in my life. It looks like a small lion.

59. JustLoveLA - November 21st, 2007 at 4:47 pm

The comments about a wolfdog are completely off base. As the proud owner of a dog that is 7/8 grey wolf and 1/8 German shepherd, I can tell you that as long as they are brought up right, they are the most loving dogs you could ever imagine. I would not recommend them to most people because they require A LOT of time and attention as well as a good knowledge of the breed. But there is no doubt, they make incredibly loyal companions. Ours sleeps in bed with us every night.

60. deltadoug - November 22nd, 2007 at 12:25 am

This is just another anti-pit bull website by someone who knows little about the breed. You start off like you are in junior high saying that any of these dogs would “wipe the floor” with a pit bull and that a man who isn’t afraid of dogs can “easily” put down a pit bull. Did you smoke crack before you wrote that? So what exactly are you guarding against - humans or other animals? And what are you guarding, people, a home, open property, livestock??? We don’t know, because you are far too interested in maligning the pit bull breeds, because your dogs are so tough. No, pit bulls won’t attack just anyone who walks onto your property. When they began to be used in dog fighting pits, the dog handlers were in the pits as well, to watch and handle their dogs and even treat the wounds of their dogs. Any dog which showed agression towards humans was “culled” and his/her bloodline ended. Also, just as an FYI, the American Pit Bull Terrier and Staffordshire Terriers were not bred for dog fighting. The were originally bred for the bloodsport of bull-baiting, where a bull was placed in a specially constructed ring and tied to an iron stake so that it could move in an area of about 30 feet. The object of the sport was for the dogs to immobilise the bull. Another type of bull-baiting was “pinning the bull”, where the dogs would be set upon the bull one at a time, with a successful attack resulting in the dog fastening his teeth strongly in the bull’s snout or bringing the bull to its knees. A less common, but similar sport was bear-baiting. So, that man who isn’t afraid of dogs better be a little bigger and stronger than a 1000 lb bull or bear. Idiot. Early Bull and Terriers were bred for the characteristic known as gameness — the dog’s ability to maintain the attack in baiting, despite ripped flesh, dehydration, exhaustion or broken bones. The pitting of dogs against bear or bull tested the gameness, strength and skill of the dog. By the way, today, pit bulls are used for narcotics detection police dogs, Border Patrol dogs, hearing dogs and Search and Rescue dogs because of their tenacity, high energy drive, and versatility. Yep, they are guarding our boarders, that must be why so many illegals are coming into the USA.

61. jfrater - November 22nd, 2007 at 1:01 am

deltadoug: you can hardly call this an anti-pit bull website - the are mentioned in one article of 300! You could say this is an anti-pitbull list if you wanted but the author is allowed to dislike them as much as you love them surely?

62. deltadoug - November 22nd, 2007 at 11:09 pm

Correction - I should have said webpage rather than website. Definitely my bad. As for my bias, it’s not necessarily “for” pit bulls. It’s for keeping the facts honest. The premise that a pit bull is not one of the author’s top 10 guard dogs is fair, and I may or may not agree for the reasons which I previously stated. But I won’t let him just misrepresent facts to support his premise. From personal experience, I actually favor Dobermans as a breed to guard people and property. My Doberman was actually overly-friendly with people and other animals. But his sixth-sense/ability to perceive danger or something wrong was uncanny, and made him the best “bodyguard” I could have ever asked for. Never once did he hesitate to place himself between me and the danger which he perceived. Sure, the author is free to hate pit bulls and/or believe that they don’t make good guard dogs. Just as I don’t trust most Rottweilers and Dalmations around kids. But the bottom line is, the environment in which a dog is raised contributes to about 75% of his or her personality or usefulness (meaning use for a particular job or function). With some hard work and dedication, I can train a Labrador to guard, and train a Doberman to retreive.

63. Drogo - November 23rd, 2007 at 12:56 am

I knew people who had a Golden Retriever and a Toy Chihuahua. The Retriever was my buddy, always happy to see me. The Chihuahua, who was slightly bigger than my shoe, wanted to kill, maim, rip me apart. It would stand underneath “my buddy” the Retriever, between his front legs, and act like it wanted to shred, annihilate, and destroy me (ha ha). I think it had an inferiority complex.

64. william - November 24th, 2007 at 7:45 pm

what about great danes? they were used to hunt large beasts aswell they are loving loyal very powerful dogs i find them the perfect guard dog for me they are very intelligent mellow yet can be trained to take down a large man with ease

65. tranndee - November 27th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

Deltadog, I actually think you are on the same page as the author in a way.

I am a long time owner and trainer of American Pit Bull Terriers and they are not the best guard dog.

As you know, Pits are very good with people and especially with kids (often not so great with other dogs). In fact, many bull breed like Pit Bulls are nanny dogs. I would not leave my kids around a Dalmatian or Labrador. And as you said, they are very flexible dogs for many types of jobs.

And what does the fact that a Pit could or could not “wipe up the floor with another dog” have to do with being a guard dog? Nothing. That was just a stupid thing to say.

The author’s statement that Pits were known as the “baddest, meanest breed of dog” does bring up a lot of ignorant assumptions and stereotypes that have passed around about APBTs. Any dog that is abused will turn out vicious. Some just get the notoriety. Maybe he is helping in a way, to disperse the myths.

People are entitle to not like a Pit without being anti-Pit. (I HATE Akitas\-another story.) These people, however, have obviously never known a Pit Bull Terrier and as long as their opinion is not passed on as fact, whatever.

66. roxy - November 28th, 2007 at 9:43 am

JustLoveLa-

i appreciate your attempt to educate people about wolf-dog hybrids! however, i think you are mistaken in your statement “7/8 grey wolf and 1/8 German shepherd”

a wolf dog hybrid is not identified by it’s percentages (of which is a highly unreliable distinction, usually awarded by the breeder or owner to justify the wolf dog’s lineage and therefore personal value)

wolf dogs are identified by their “content”. as in High wolf content (76% to 99% Wolf) Mid-wolf content (51% to 75% Wolf), or Low-wolf content (1% to 50% Wolf ). it is practically impossible to say a wolf dog, other than an F1 generation, is anything greater than a 50% wolf. by the time you are breeding 2 F1 wolf dogs, you are not getting a dog 50% wolf 50% dog because the parents where both 50%. the behavior, physical charecteristics, and personality all contribute to the ‘content” rating, although physical appereance is used most commonly to gauge the “content”.
see this to better understand this:

http://www.wolfdog.ws/html/whatdoesitmean.html

if yu are not so already, please join a local wolf dog owners alliance in your area. we desperately need to educate people about these animals! they are NOT PETS, but they make great companions for the right people!

67. Punjar - November 30th, 2007 at 11:48 pm

German Shepherds, in my experience, are great for guarding a house if you have a family. They are usually friendly and have enough of a reputation to keep intruders away.

68. swampsnake - December 1st, 2007 at 9:06 pm

i dont beleive in dog fighting, but i must say i disagree with the statement about pitbulls,as have some others. pitbulls were bread for one job and one job only, and that is to fight and kill at least half of the dogs on this list. i will agree with the statement that they are not good guarddogs.ive owned a couple and they were good at scareing people when i was home but if left alone they did squat to protect the house.i now have a boxer/lab mix that does a much better job than all of the dogs ive had in the past… funny thing is her name is daisy.lol.she was named before i got her 7 years ago.

69. Dumbwolf - January 3rd, 2008 at 8:38 am

Just wanted to inject some facts into this discusson, although I am bit late arriving.

This is by no means an accurate list and represents a persons interest in dogs… not a comprehensive assessment of the entire canine family.

Any list which ignores the Tibetan Mastiff, the Akita Inu, the Marema Sheepdog, or the Estrela Mountain Dog in favour of the Swiss Mountain Dog is severely lacking in credibility.

Wolf dogs make terrible guard dogs. By nature the wolf is a very shy and non confrontational creature. Also, to keep a wolf dog the owner must maintain a strong Alpha position, as such the wolf dog will see it as your job to protect it… not the other way around. A wolf dog will bark once and run away - just as a wolf would.

This is not a list of what dog can be beat other dogs in a fight. I have an Alaskan Malamute - a big male who could no doubt get the better of half the dogs on this list. However, no-one in their right mind would try and use a Malamute as a guard dog as they are far too affectionate, playful and downright lazy to be any use.

Please note that most dogs will instinctively fight to subdue or disable an opponent rather than kill. A Pit Bull will fight to kill as this is what it has been selectively bred for since the dog fighting circuit discovered this breed.

American Pit Bulls are extremely tough dogs, and pound for pound they are perhaps the toughest, strongest dogs in the world. But they are not immune to the laws of physics or nature. A 30kg Pit Bull will not survive long against a 100kg Caucasian Ovtcharka. Similarly an armed intruder will have much less trouble against an APBT than against a fully grown mastiff.

I have seen a Maremma sheepdog (50kg) kill a Pit Bull/Staffy cross (30kg). It was in a open park and the Pit Bull cross was running offlead and attacked a Maremma puppy. The puppy owner was also walking a fully grown male Maremma which set upon the Pit Bull and snapped it’s spine in half in less than a second. It simply shook it like a rag doll.

As a police officer I have seen film footage of APBTs torn apart by larger stronger breeds. As a police dog handler I know we have far more trouble dealing with poorly kept and poorly bred Rotties etc. than we do with Pit Bulls. Although the media will do their best to hype up their image. It is no coincidence that most people who argue for the invincibility of Pit Bulls also sound like they are spoilt prepubescent males.

As a guard dog you need an animal that can discern between friend or foe. That cannot be bribed with food. That will release or attack on demand. That will bark to alert it’s owner rather than just attack. You also need a dog which is not a threat to it’s owner, livestock or family. You don’t want a dog which can attack indescriminantly and without warning as Pit Bull breeds are known to do far more than their owners will admit.

Sorry, but just some common sense.

70. gerome - January 4th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

lol german sheperd rated only 10 thats shamefull the german shepard is a tough ass dog thats why it is youed commonly buy police lol they have the saint barnerds somewhere near the top them dog are gay they may be big but are often discribed as a gentle giant oh yea and another point why is the staff not listed up there they may be samll but like to see any of you take on down if they wanted too they could kick any dogs ass lol

71. ben - January 5th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

i think kangal r the best guard and tibet mastiff.

72. Stormy - January 6th, 2008 at 7:01 am

The person who posted the innacurate information about the “wolfdog” has no clue what they are talking about. No wolf or wolfdog belongs in this “badass-dog” category. They are not guard dogs at all, they are not pet, they are companion animals. You have no right calling them “vicious” and putting them in a category with any dog that is considered “vicious”. Another lie you have posted here is that they are “hard to train”. If you have the time and effort they can be trained exceptionally well.

Personally I would rather live with a wolf/or wolfdog any day than one of the above mentioned dog breeds you have here. Obviously many of your subscribers lack education, don’t know much about dog handling and care, and even less about wolfdogs/wolves that are privately owned. If you want an education, facts and no bull, visit my site before you post anymore misinformation to boost your egos.

Stormy
Stormy

73. kain - January 9th, 2008 at 10:08 am

my pit bull would eat all those dogs,wipe the floor?

74. kain - January 9th, 2008 at 10:35 am

my pit bulls mom ripped a labs throat out..bout lab

75. kain - January 9th, 2008 at 10:45 am

DELTADOUG BEST COMMENT ON THE SITE

76. joanne - January 13th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

I still want the Irish Wolfhound!

77. sgthacker - January 19th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

The most intelligent comments here were probably made by dumbwolf, though wolves are far from dumb, and a large mckenzie valley/timberwolf alpha male could certainly hold it’s own against about anything. Wolves are not guard dogs, though. As for hybrids I’ve heard good and bad, but to me somehting like an akita/wolf cross is asking for trouble. I know there are exceptions but have read alot of stories about hybrids hurting or worse children. They can be confused animals at times w/ the fear/non-fear of humans and prey drive.

Now, as far as best guard dogs, how can the fila brasilero not be included? Or the Central Asian Shepherd? Or the awesome Kangal? I like Swiss Mtn dogs, but would not have them on this list ahead of the others. As for intensity Malinois are hard to beat, though they aren’t as large as some of the others. For farm protection, the kuvasz, maremma, ovtcharkas, kommondors, akbash, spanish mastiff, and other large livestock guardians are very hard to beat. I wouldn’t want a neo or bourdeaux mastiff after me either. GSDs record speaks for itself, anyone who puts these dogs down is an idiot.

You pit owners need to chill out. There was bite pressure test on tv between a pit, gsd, and rott and the pit finished last. you people make these ridiculous statements about these dogs . they do not have locking jaws, no dog does. A wolf (let alone a hyena) has much, much more jaw strength than a pit. Pits are fought by criminals because they are readily available, cheap to own, and like to do it. If you want to put 50 lb spike in a ring with a 140 lb japanese tosa go right ahead. there are videos out there of pits getting crushed by kangals, tosas, ovtcharkas, akbash, bully kuttas, etc if you’re into that crap. These dogs have been fought for centuries, just because you have not heard of them doesn’t mean anything. So you can quote Semencic and Stratton and all the pit bull cheerleaders with their nonsense if you want. As for the rott/bandog test I’ve often wondered why wasn’t a “dead-game/fastlane/catchweight, blah blah 47 lb pit put against the 100 lb rott instead of a pit test 100 lb bandog. Come on guys, you’re not helping your dog with the pit can outswim a lab, run faster than a greyhound, outsmell a hound. and whip every dog in the neighborhood stuff. Talked w/ someone the other day, and a pit jerked loose and attacked an old man and his chesapeake cross and he bout killed the pit protecting his owner.

78. fishing4monkeys - January 21st, 2008 at 12:40 pm

When I was little we had a “wolf dog”…only a little wolf though and mostly German Shepherd, great dog!

79. Steve - January 29th, 2008 at 7:15 am

u ever had a pitbull attack you, you seem pretty confident that any man not fearing a pitbull can take them down???most ignorant thing ive heard in a long time, my pitbull would make short work of you, and by the way if u want a bad ass guard dog than you forgot the standard poodle, or did u not know they have been used as guard dogs for longer than most of the breeds you posted. Be more educated when posting something like this.

80. Steve - January 29th, 2008 at 7:19 am

“Talked w/ someone the other day, and a pit jerked loose and attacked an old man and his chesapeake cross and he bout killed the pit protecting his owner.” and this is real strong evidence that pitbulls are pussys….someone always has a story

81. Steve - January 29th, 2008 at 7:22 am

Dr. Lehr Brisbin of the University of Georgia states, “To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs.

82. sgthacker - February 7th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

So I should believe you, some stranger, over what I’ve seen, heard, and read for over 20 years, Stevie? What a joke. maybe I should listen to you, Semencic, and stratton’s nonsense about 35 lb pits beating lions? I like my chances against your pit much more than a 160 lb caucasian mountain dog, mr educated. why don;t police or the military use them stevie? this man is a client of mine and a former k-9 trainer for the military stevie, what are you, some thug wannabe? I certainly trust him over you, boy. Good friends of mine have raised pits for roughly 40yrs, and these are top-notch lines. They have also done protection work with pits, american bulldogs, rotts, gsds, malinois, and other breeds. While wearing a full body suit, and working w/ pro trainers, he said the mailinois and shepherd caused him to flag much quicker than the pits and were much more impressive and intimidating. these were imported Czech border patrol dogs and he said there was no comparison between them and the pits. The bite test can be viewed by anyone and by there calculations, your breed finished last, buddy so live with it. they are certainly more credible than you. Standard poodle,lol. please try and educate everyone here some more, punk.

83. sgthacker - February 8th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

Pits are used by the border patrol? give me a break. They use mailinois, gsds, and labs for detection work. Neither the us military, or any police force I know of uses pits for anything. Deltadoug, don’t blame people for not caring for pits. Look at the culture surrounding them today, and the attacks reported in the news. You have a lot of poorly bred dogs owned by people who THINK they have the baddest dog around. There are numerous sites on the web where you can see pits getting abused by kangals, tosas, caucasian mountain dogs, bully kuttas, central asian ovtcharkas, akbash, cane corsos, and even rotts. Your gameness theory never comes into play because the fight is over rather quickly. your breed is simply overpowered. But yet, you people get all defensive as if is your breed’s one claim to fame and most important trait. Get over it, dude. Hell, I’ve seen a sch III lab, does that mean they are better than shepherds at schutzhund or ring sport? Just because Jessup had one multitalented dog doesn;t mean pits excel at everything. Your dog is nowhere near as versatile as a good gsd, and you’re a fool if you say otherwise. You have no facts to back it up> So how many sar pits are there around? I never come across any or see them in the news. So much pit hype is speculation, emotion, and myth. Stratton talks about pits beating 137 lb chindo dogs. What the hell is a chindo? Now, the korean jindo weighs roughly 45-50 lbs. lol. So don;t get all touchy because when many people see your breed it’s in a rap video, or being walked around the hood on a logging chain and lunging at everything that passes by, or attacks a child. Now, your statement about pits bullbaiting is fine, but what helps the pit in that case is his small size, say compared to a fila. Catahoulas, black mouth curs, airedales, dogos, american bulldogs and plotts can catch as well as most pits. As far as gameness, I sure wouldn;t discount a good jack russell, or even more so, patterdale terriers or jagdterriers who are absolutely fearless and are much smaller than pits. Sorry dude, but again, just because you and kain and steve are ignorant of several breeds bred in other countries for centuries to bait bears,etc and fight other dogs doesn;t mean the can’t and don;t beat pits. As long as you have the michael vicks and people like the immature steve and kaing saying my dog will beat yours crap, people will not care for pits or especially the immature, adoloscents that own them. Again, it’s not everyone, but that’s what you’re face with right now, so don;t shoot the messenger. clean up your own backyard first. Just check out that idiot’s “pitbullreprter” website and maybe you’ll understand.

84. sgthacker - February 8th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

Oh yeah, DD, I still like my chances much better against a pit than a fila, ovtcharka, kangal, bully kutta, boerboel, spanish mastiff, sindh mastiff, etc. Any of those would be a more effective guard than a pit, and that’s not bias or hatred, just and informed opinion based on fact and many years of experience and study. your breed probably takes some crap it doesn;t deserve, especially in the press, and no I don;t think they should be banned, but much of it is deserved thanks to poor breeding, and bad owners. Too many of these people want these dogs for the wrong reason, tie them out on chains and try to be badasses. There;s more to owning a dog than throwing him in a pit and watching them fight. They are popular because they are gritty and put on the best show, cheap to own, readily available, not because they can whip a dog 3x their size that is just as eager to fight like a kangal, etc. Sad, to say, they are throwawaydogs to much of the scum out there who participate in this crap. So, I believe I am educated about dogs, guys.

85. Shawn - February 11th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

I personally witnessed a very large lab, used to track wounded animals on a commercial hunting facility ( hog and deer)kick the shit out of two pits. I was shocked. One pit approx 85 lbs and the other about 65lbs. The lab was huge, 130 lbs, tall , about 28 inches, but docile with humans. Two loud mouth tough guy owners challenged and taunted the owner of the lab and that lab scrubbed the concrete and damn near killed those pit bulls. My point, dogs are animals and you never know what kind of heart one has–just like people sometimes.

86. B8ovin - February 19th, 2008 at 2:04 am

Man oh man, there is nothing like a dog lover’s argument. The ignorance of dogs, or, more precisely, the myth’s of dogs, never ceases to amaze me. Have any of you been bitten by a dog of even moderate size? I have two malamutes (male and female) and a boxer. Occasionally they get on each other’s nerves and aggression kicks in (particularly amongst the males). While breaking up one such fight I was bitten on the finger by the malamute male. Nothing has hurt like that. NOTHING. The bone on both the upper part of the finger and the palm part was showing. And the bite lasted for a second. Any dog that has teeth and a few pounds can inflict terrible damage. Yet more stupid and useless anecdotal evidence.

My point is, there are two aspects of home protection: intimidation and actual violence. The reality is not many dogs not trained to attack humans will so so. Which leaves intimidation. Most mid-sized to large dogs will meet this requirement. My 129 lb. female malamute looks like a wolf and intimidates the crap out of people, but my 85 lb. boxer scares people even more. Both are real deterrents. Add another 70 lb. malamute and no one wants anything to do with my dogs, my house or me when I’m walking them. Needless to say, they wouldn’t hurt anyone. They don’t have to. Indeed, if they would I’d have put them down. Dogs, first and foremost, have to live in the communities in which they abide. That means they have to get along with people. If they bark at the doorbell or a knock, swell, as long as they don’t attack the people you invite in. If my dogs would bite someone, I’d know I had failed as an owner, but they would suffer the inevitable tragic fate. This to me is unacceptable and I loathe anyone who would allow a dog to jeopardize it’s life because his penis is too short.
As for dogs fighting dogs, it is a natural instinct and part of many breed’s temperment, but I would not label it as a redeeming quality, just a necessary evil. Personally, I would show my dog the same respect it showed me and put myself in peril to protect it from being hurt by another dog.
My final worry is the wolf dog, which to me is just foolish and selfish. Because you have no idea what genetic material is in the line of the wolf or the dog you can end up with some serious mental and physical problems in these hybrids. Hell, as far as I know the medical profession hasn’t even come up with a reasonable answer to the live or dead rabies vaccination question. Sure, they me live long and be great companions, but so are other dogs. Why then take the risk of unknown quantities so you can feel like you gots you a wuff? I don’t get it. By the way the malamute is much like a wolf, has specific genetic credentials and lives to be 13 years or older on a regular basis, and shows on rescue lists all the time. Just saying…

87. Arctos - February 19th, 2008 at 2:54 am

I can’t believe the ignorance and myths on this board about wolfdogs. The “VERIFIED” pedigrees I have on mine go back to the original wolf and dog. I also have one of mine in the MMI Genomics DNA database. The rabies vaccines and all other dog vaccines have WORKED on wolves and wolfdogs for over 30 years. In one of your sentences you say “Why take the risk of unknown quantities so you can feel like you gots you a wuff.” And then your next sentence you say “By the way the malamute is much like a wolf.” You bash people for raising wolves and wolfdogs, then you are basically bragging that your malamute acts like one?
You all want to hang your testosterone on your sleeves like its a trophy on this board with your version of aggressive and bad ass dogs? Then leave the wolfdog out of it altogether. They are not bad ass dogs, and because of people who talk about them without having a clue what its like to actually raise one with a spectacular ancestry(pedigree and lines)you perpetuate the fear and misinformation that people have of them. Why not edumacate yourselves first?

I’ve been raising them for 16 years, and I’ve never been bit by one yet. I also have spent a good amount of time with privately owned wolves, with no incident. The only animal I’ve ever been bit by was a rescue DOG of unknown content.

Get it together, and stop making up bovine excretement.

Stormy

88. Arctos - February 19th, 2008 at 3:04 am

For your education, visit this site:

http://wolfdog.ws

Its being revamped, but you will get the best education, instead of the ignorance I’ve seen here. By the way, for the ignorant person who said wolves were fear biters, is just that. Ignorant. All canines are a product of their environment and the degree of their training, and proper breeding.

If you have a stupid vicious canine, better look in your own back yard for the problem, before you blame it on the kind of dog, or the breed.

Stormy

89. B8ovin - February 19th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

Arctos: I can only imagine you were talking to me at one point and began talking to others later. Yes, I touted the malamute’s wolf-like characteristics, but not because I think they are important. I did so because I was proposing an option to those who want wolf-dogs. I don’t have malamutes because they are like wolves, I have them because they are like malamutes. There is, then, no hypocrisy. I have been around wolf-dogs a lot and they are really great pets. But I have first-hand knowledge of young healthy male hybrids dying suddenly (two different families) of heart attacks. I still don’t know of any scientific evidence that shows the live vs. dead rabies vaccine resolved. I am NOT saying it is not out there, I just have not read it nor been directed towards it (hint). The fact that “the rabies vaccine” has “worked” begs the question: does this mean that hybrids have been bitten by rabid animals and not been able to pass on the virus, or that you know of no hybrid that has gotten rabies? The two are separate.
I can see no legitimate reason to take an undomesticated predatory animal and breed it with a domesticated non-predatory animal to use as a pet, other than sheer selfishness. Wolves have their place in nature, dogs have been bred and used by man for centuries. Why ignore dogs as legitimate pets to create hybrids? You sound like a responsible breeder and I applaud that. But I disagree with what you do, and have questions about your motives. I don’t think you are a bad person, nor that your pets are bad pets, just unnecessary adjuncts to the extant breeds out there. We have, in short, different philosophies, about what you do. We agree in whole on responsibility and the idiocy of “vicious” dogs.
I have other comments and arguments, but I have two novel-length posts here already. If you wish to continue the conversation I’m game.
Really, though, I admit I have some remarkable ignorance compared to you about hybrid wolf-dogs, and base my comments on anecdotal evidence, which is fairly lame, but all I have to go on. My philosophy however, is, I feel, sound.

90. Arctos - February 20th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

B8ovin,

Yes, you were included in my post. First I am going to direct this to the writer of the caption below the “wolfdog” pictured above. I am very irritated with the caption the owner of this forum has under the “BONUS” Wolfdog. It is absolutely false. Let me break it down.

“The Wolfdog. Half wolf, half some large shepherd breed. Vicious, hard to train, eats a lot, not very a very loving pet, but who would dare break into your home when you got wolves in the back yard? The dog pictured above is a Wolf-German Shepherd cross”

First of all whoever wrote that caption has either no idea what he is talking about, or has seen some pretty poorly bred wolfdogs, or has been shown something that was called a wolfdog that had no wolf in it at all, or is just really ignorant. Or all of the above. First of all to even place the wolfdog in that category is asking for more controversy towards this badly maligned animal. The animal in the photo is a very unattractive wolfdog in my opinion. And if the owner has trained it for viciousness, or to brag that he has a badass dog, the owner should be euthanized in my opinion. I feel sorry for the dog, not the owner.

Let’s break down the ignorant information in the caption first.

“Half wolf” half some large shepherd breed. Pretty ignorant statement in my opinion. Obviously the person is proud that they don’t know much about the “dog” breed in this dog? I can tell it’s poorly bred by that statement alone. Let’s go on to the next statement:

“Vicious, hard to train, eats a lot, not very a very loving pet,”

Wolfdogs are not pets. I know PURE WOLVES that have been trained exceptionally in obedience. Most wolfdogs I know of, and that is a lot, are exceptionally well trained. Many are ambassadors and are taken for educational purposes all over the country. So are two pure Arctic wolves that have been taken all over the country, and have been on stage in large auditoriums ON LEASH, in front of hundreds of people including hundreds of kids!

Wolves and wolfdogs are NOT inherently vicious. They are a product of their breeding, environment, and if they have a bad owner who abuses them, treats them badly, and neglects them, like any canine, they can become vicious. It’s NOT THEIR FAULT. And if anyone is stupid enough to have a dog live its life out on a chain or cable, (not talking about mushing dogs here), many dogs become aggressive and vicious and starved for attention, and neurotic! That statement is pure ignorance.

As far as “eating alot”. Duh, what do you think a 100+lb canine would eat per day? Some tofu and a salad? Mine eat stillborn calves in the winter. To be specific, for 4 100+ lb canines, I feed one calf per week. Guts, Hide, and all. In the summer they get chicken leg quarters, exactly 3 per day per animal with carnivore vitamins. It costs approx 151 a month for 300 lbs of chicken at Wal-Mart. Its better for them, and cheaper than buying expensive high quality kibble that has a minimal amount of meat, and gives wolves and wolfdogs diareah and plaque on their teeth.

If the person complains they eat a lot, it also could be he’s giving his animal(s) some cheap garbage like Ol’ Roy.

Another ignorant statement:

“not very a very loving pet, but who would dare break into your home when you got wolves in the back yard?”

They are extremely intelligent, sensitive, and they have feelings and emotion. If the guy wanted a pet, why did he get a wolfdog? If you want something that will lick your feet while you sit at the computer, lie in your lap, and go fetch you a beer out of the fridge, then why didn’t you get a dog?

“Who would dare break into the home when you got wolves in the back yard.”??? With this statement the owner of the caption has a bigger ego than what he has something below his belt. And he feels it’s macho to brag that having wolves in the back yard would scare burglars? Many people, myself included, have protection dogs to protect the wolfdogs. My wolfdogs don’t bark. They aren’t suppose to because I know what the content of mine are, and I got them because of their exceptional lines and pedigrees. If someone broke into my home, they would watch and get upset, but they would NOT protect. My dogs would however, and that is why I have them.

It’s because of ignorant, egomaniacs, who post captions about such a magnificent canine as a wolfdog or wolf as has been done here, that gets them banned, euthanized, and shot all over this country. And it attracts negative misinformation from others on this board that puts fuel in the fire. I have fought for the right to live with these animals for 16 years. I have spent the whole time educating anyone who is interested in knowing about them. I do not promote them as pets, I never have. I never will. They are not vicious fighting dogs. They are not protection dogs. They are a very misunderstood dog, and what people fear, they destroy.

To B8ovin,

I appreciate your post. It was a good one, with some good questions. First off, wolfdogs were created many years ago by crossing a dog with a wolf. The wolfdogs of today are not created that way. We breed wolfdog to wolfdog. We may add more wolf into the lines when a line needs it, or we may add a lower content wolfdog into the lines to make the lines more dog like. We did not create the wolfdog, we are only trying to make it better, genetics wise, health wise, temperament wise…etc. The last I knew of anyone adding a dog to wolf cross was over 20 years ago. The same goes for the captive wolf owners. The wolves that are in the lines came from zoo surplus, or fur farms over 30 years ago. No wolves that are privately owned are taken from the wild. The pedigrees from the good wolf breeders go back to the original wolf from the fur farms, or the zoo stock.

Personally most of us do not want a wolfdog with shepherd mix in it. The majority of wolfdogs have husky or malamute in the lines. Like you said, Huskies and Malamutes or the Northern breed dogs have similar characteristics to the wolf, far removed of course, but similar. I always tell anyone who writes me and wants a wolfdog, but has never had one to try out a malamute or husky first. If they like that type of behavior, stubbornness and strength, and have raised them well, then I suggest they interact with low or mid content wolfdogs, etc.

I have never heard of a wolfdog dying from a heart attack, unless it had heart worms. Most wolfdogs I know have lived to 16 years and I know of an Arctic wolf, which lived for 19 years. Wolves in the wild usually live to a ripe old age of 7. Wolves in the wild who get weak, diseased or sick will get taken out by their pack, or die of starvation. That is why you will see the healthiest wolves survive. Same with their pups. Wolves privately owned, since they live longer than they are suppose to, get the same ailments as any other old canine. Cataracts, cancer….etc. People are not suppose to live past 120 years old. We get the same ailments.

Wolfdogs and wolves and dogs can get rabies even if they have been vaccinated. It’s very rare, but it can happen. It can be something as simple as the vaccine sitting on the shelf with an expired lot, or it can be the shot was not given properly. I give my own rabies, and my own 7-way shots. And I do it every 3 years. It is not necessary to over vaccinate any canine. It’s not good for them. The only reason there is a rabies vaccine controversy with the AVMA, the HSUS, and other anti wolfdog organizations, is because if it ever gets approved, and a wolfdog is picked up for whatever reason and ends up in the shelter, or AC, they won’t be able to automatically cut its head off and check for rabies. It’s all political. And I am sure any of the people here who own dogs that are under the gun right now will understand how it feels to have their favorite pooch declared a danger and banned. Fear breeds fear, and that is why it upsets me so much when people say things in public about an animal that I have pretty much changed my life for. I am not a breeder. I have had one litter in 16 years. I may have one more. 3 of my pups are living in reputable wildlife centers who needed a pup. My other two pups, I have, and the person who has the father of the pups. I would never place any pup with the general public. I would never advertise in a newspaper, on the web, or on my own website. I have a favorite quote from a very nice man who passed away who was a friend.

He said: “If you don’t know where to buy a wolf, you shouldn’t have one.”

Believe me, many of us have fought and stopped bad breeders, bad owners, puppy mills, and others who have owned wolfdogs for the wrong reasons. We will continue to do so. I am honest with people also. If I stop by someones house, who says they have wolves and they are malamutes and huskies, I will tell them so. Most don’t like to hear it, but Im frankly sick and tired of the pandemic of misrepresentation. They will take a mal, husky, or a very low content wolfdog, and advertise it is a pure wolf. If they find ignorant people to pay thousands for their pups (and they will), it hurts us all. Some people shouldn’t have been bred.

No one is ignoring dogs as legitimate pets. Wolfdogs are not pets. And where I live, they are legal. They are legal in many places, but unlike pets, we spend an incredible amount of money to contain them properly, feed them, and care for them. To me they are an alternative canine. I have them because they don’t bark. I have them because I love to hear them howl. I have them because the intelligence is much more of a challenge then my regular dogs. I also have them so that my children and grandchildren don’t have to go to a zoo in order to see something that eventually man will wipe off the face of the planet. Some people I let go in with them in the pens. Some people I don’t. It depends on how the people react, and how much knowledge they have of wolves and wolf behavior. I didn’t get them so that I could take them to the dog park and show off to the public. I am a very private person. I only have them for me, and my education and so that I can educate others. Where I live there are packs of stray dogs running around. I would honestly be more afraid of those, than to wander out in the forest where there are a pack of wild wolves’ anyday. Wolves in the wild are afraid of man. Dogs are still domestic, even though these packs are feral, and would not hesitate to attack humans.

Personally I agree with you that whoever bred dogs to wolves 20 to 30 years ago did wolves a disservice. But since they exist, we can only try to make them better, and some of us have done just that. To me the wolf is a perfect mammal. Look for example at the AKC dogs that have been bred that are what I call the “designer” dogs?
The bulldog, whose head has been bred so large, that many of the females have to have cesareans just to have the large headed pups. What about the dog breeds with the large eyeballs? Like the Shitzue, or similar. Sometimes if they take a fall off the couch, their eyeball will pop out. Some breeds of dogs that have slobbered, are bred now to be dry mouthed dogs. They breed dogs to suit whatever a human wants.

That is another reason, I love wolfdogs and privately owned wolves. There are closer to the original canine without the bells and whistles of canines today.

I have great respect for whatever anyone in our great country of the United States wants to have in their back yard. It’s not my business to judge. However I hope to get the same respect back.

Stormy

91. B8ovin - February 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 am

Stormy,

I understand what you are saying, but I am still not convinced that your motives and my philosophy can agree. But again, I don’t think that makes you a bad dog owner or your wolf-dogs a bad breed. Admittedly we agree more than disagree, and I appreciate the thoughtful insights and prolonged answers. To be fair, every responsible dog owner and breeder of a particular breed that I have ever met will tell you that breed it the best and give you a slew of legitimate reasons why. I’ve had boxers all my life and mals for the last twenty. I understand breed loyalty and feel it myself sometimes (for boxers, which I think are the perfect dog, but not so much malamutes which are only for the dedicated).

By the way I have been a wolf fan since childhood and think they are wonderful. I like cats too for their predatory instincts and niche-filling abilities. That’s why I don’t want either as pets: I respect their more natural instincts and their abilities and tendencies for the wild life. I dig what you’re saying about the wolf-dogs existence and your sense of responsibility in doing the best you can. That’s commendable, I’m just way off philosophically about the whole moral issue, and that’s MY problem not yours. So thanks for all the clarification. I would also prompt you to be more tolerant of ignorance for those who only know what they read on sites like Wikipedia et al. I think you’ll agree with me that the sources of misinformation of ANY dog are more numerous than responsible information, and I don’t think those who pass on that misinformation do so with malice as much as for a quick, what they see as harmless writing. Given the states of things I think patient understanding of that serves better than anger. This is, by the way, supposed to be constructive criticism, I just don’t do smiley faces.

92. steve - February 25th, 2008 at 11:52 pm

Nice to see dobies on the list, but then i’m biased i have 2 , and have either owned or looked after dobies for many years. My dogs are family pets and have not been specifically trained to protect or guard- the breed doesnt need to be, like most dogs if treated with respect, given clear boundaries and know their place within the pack, they will give their life to protect their family members.
From my own personal experience i find dobies to be of a more consistent temperament than many of the dogs mentioned here, generally not interested in fighting with other dogs(more interested in playing with them). But i recall an instance with astray akita in the local park who went to go for me and was quickly dispatched by the milder one of my dobermans- his attack on the akita was lightning quick and the hound was soon running for cover. I dont want to see my dobies attack any other dogs or any humans but if they need to then the objects of their attack had better look out!

93. Nick - February 26th, 2008 at 11:32 am

That pic of the wolf/dog is UNATTRACTIVE? Why, is looking just like a wolf unattractive? How is THAT pic of a wolfdog “unattractive” Just what does one look for in judging the “attractiveness” of wolfdog?

94. Northern girl - February 27th, 2008 at 2:51 am

Stormy- you sound very responsible. Glad you have broken up puppy mills. I hate them and wish they were illegal for all breeds. Question for you: Are wolfdogs considered domesticated or are they still feral?
Northern girl

95. Arctos - February 27th, 2008 at 3:26 am

B80vin,

I’ll have to write you back when I have more time. I appreciate your post, I hope we can agree to disagree on some things. I saw something that “Nick” wrote and wanted to address it right now.

Nick, what qualifies that wolfdog in the picture to look “just like a wolf” as you put it? Wolves are THE most beautiful mammals I have laid my eyes in in my opinion. A well bred wolfdog, can be just as beautiful as a wolf, with a wonderful temperment as well. Calling that mutt a “wolf” does wolves an injustice. You do know wolfdogs are all “mutts.” They are not a recognised breed.

In judging the “attractiveness” of a wolfdog consists of many things. It also depends on the wolf X dog content in the animal. Its not simply throwing two animals together. I have my preferences, so do others. There are certain lines I like, and there are certain lines I don’t like. I personally don’t like the shepherd/wolf crosses unless the wolf is very high percent and you see little or no shepherd traits in the wolfdog. The wolfdog in that photo reminds me of a line that has been around for a while, but Im not impressed with its looks or temperment. Im not going to discuss lines or private information here.

The ears are too big to be wolf ears. The nose looks more like a northern breed dog nose. If it is cold weather when the photo was taken, and it is winter time, if this were a wolf, it would have much more fur around the sides of the face. We call them “the cheeks”. The chest looks too wide to be a wolf, and the head proportion does not seem to fit the body. Unless the camera is distorting the looks, this is what I see.

I don’t like it when someone says something “looks just like a wolf” when it doesn’t. This is another way our animals get banned, maligned and sometimes killed, when they are misrepresented as “wolves.” What about that photo looks “just like a wolf” to you?

Thanks Northern Girl. I don’t consider wolfdogs domestic, I consider them tame. There is a good breeder who has bred 4 generations of excellent canines of wolf descent to the point of seeing some domestic traits in her F3 89% animals, which I have one of. If there is an F4 breeding I believe there will be some great domestication going on. But it has been carefully done, the pups are consistant in looks and behavior, and at this point the pups that have been left on the mother for nursing have turned out to be as social as pups normally pulled and bottlefed at 10 days. This is a great breakthrough if this breeder keeps it going. So until this happens I would not call them domestic.

Feral to me means random matings with no socialization of the pups like you find when dogs are running all over the countryside breeding and raising their pups without human interaction. Those are feral. I do not consider them pets, I don’t consider them feral, to me they are alternative canines or companion canines. They certainly are not for everyone.

I’ll write when I have some more time. Thanks for the questions.

Stormy

96. Mitch - February 28th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

Is there a list of the worst watchdogs (purse dogs notwithstanding)? My yellow lab mix is the worst watchdog ever. While I am grateful for her company and her quiet voice, an occasonal “woof” might sure be comforting every now and again. Like Grimm said to Mother Goose a few comic strips ago, “You live with the dog you have, not the dog you wish you had.”

97. lil’ m - February 28th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

Caucasian Ovcharka. I believe these are the most willing and loving guard dogs ever. They will practically body slam a person to the ground and then attack them. They aren’t vicious because they try attacking some approaching them, it’s because they care about their family.

98. Smashpro1 - March 2nd, 2008 at 3:56 pm

I had a brother-sister pair of wolfdogs growing up. The male was very loyal and protective of his sister, and the female happened to be very friendly, and they were both beloved members of the family until their deaths

99. MdM - March 2nd, 2008 at 10:11 pm

I will put an entry on “worst watchdogs”–golden retriever. One night, I came home and decided to go through the back gate on a whim. My golden and my corgi were out there, and stood about thirty feet away, feet planted, barking. I slowly approached, waiting for them to recognize me.

They bolted.

I followed, and turned the corner. The corgi, always the smart one, had hidden himself. Our poor, silly golden, Daisy, was spinning around on the porch, tearing at the sliding glass door, peeing everywhere…

Yes, I felt very bad for doing it. I am currently looking into getting a Komondor.

100. Anton South-Africa - March 17th, 2008 at 8:31 am

That picture of the Boerboel is not a real Boerboel.

101. Prince - March 19th, 2008 at 5:41 am

Wheres the presa canario???

102. oliver coyne - April 3rd, 2008 at 12:17 pm

i have a bulmastif and if some 1 cums up to me or him he will go 4 them i have never seen a dog turn like him

103. Ulverinna - April 5th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

For the proper wolf-looking dogs there is naturally the Saarlooswolfdog and Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, that supposedly are more dog-like after some breeding. I’ve personally met one Saarlooswolfdog once, and it was just a whiny little thing. It was still a pup but it’s no reason to go hide under cars after noticing he doesn’t know me from before. Cute little thing, but scared easily, apparantely really smart now that it’s older though.

104. wildewillie89 - April 17th, 2008 at 7:47 pm

I own a Maremma Sheepdog, which is probably close to 50kg now, however their advantage comes in their reach, a Maremma Sheepdog can put its front paws on the shoulders of a six foot man. They are extremely good guard dogs as they are experts in intimidation. A Maremma will never start a fight but will intimidate his/her opponent out of a fight. However they will fight to the death and give their lives for you. Due to their determination they are said to be strong as 80kg dogs and are mostly used to protect livestock from wolves, bears etc. Here are a few stories of what they did in war:

One group of Italian soldiers and their Maremma sheepdog who had been captured by the Allies. Six German shepherds were left to guard the prisoners. In the morning, when the Allies came to check on their prisoners, they found that the Italians had escaped- leaving behind their Maremma. He was found lying quitely at the entrance to the pen and the six German shepherds were dead

From the Imperial War Museum of London come two stories. The first is about the British Army’s Afrika Corps who found that the standard German shepherd dogs were useless at protecting their supply dumps from the Arabs. Once Italian settlers in Libya introduced Maremmas to the Corps their troubles were at an end. The second story is about Maremmas who were seconded into the British Army. They had been introduced to the the English when the Italians had joined the Allies. These dogs were able to sense the presence of German troops and had an ingenious way of letting their handlers know that the Germans were around. Instead of barking, a Maremma would nudge the handler with its nose. These dogs saved many lives!

105. Bob - April 20th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

All of you are wrong about the pitbull it is the baddest of the bad. It doesn’t have to be big in fact this is the weakness of the large breeds a pitbulls speed and small size just needs one thing large jaws that will clamp on to the largest of dogs and it is goodbye. I have seen a small powerfull pitbull confront my friend rotty and it was scared of the pit. I also saw a special on TV about a pitbull that fought two American Bull dogs the pitbull eventually died and the bull dogs were in critical condition. Don’t under estimate a pitbulls size it is what makes him such a vicious dog I hate them but don’t under estimate them.

106. gman35 - April 21st, 2008 at 8:04 pm

it amazes me how some people just up and declare themselves dog experts…. Trust me the only dog on ur list that even compares with the apbt is the caucasian. the pit has beaten all challengers world wide , only occasionally will a large caucasian make a quick kill . If the fight is an extended match the pit wins hands down…but u r right on one thing the pit does not make a good guard dog …. he will leave with the intruder….lol.. just the facts

107. sgthacker - April 26th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

Ha,Ha,Ha!!! What great, insightful, and “obviously” well-educated comments from bob and gman. you two obviously know your stuff. thanks for all the “facts.” Wow, since you say you saw a rott scared of the mighty pitt in your “hood” that proves everything. You’re right, what can we say. We certainly don;t know as much as you do, Bob. I’ll forget 30+ yrs of experience and research, and just believe you and gman. Why listen to professionals in the field of working dogs, we’ll all just listen to you. If you want “facts gman, just google akbash vs pitbull, and you’ll see your great pit being thrown around like a ragdoll, by a dog not even used ofr fighting in that region of the country. And you think a pit would beat a fightig-line Kangal, ovtcharka, Bully Kutta, Gull dong, Tosa, Voldakov? You make me laugh little boy. Some of these dogs are well over 150lbs and are much stronger, with much stronger jaws than your pit. They have weight classes for a reason, dude. Get a clue. Gman, when you get out of jr high next week, load up your bad pit and head over to pakistan, and enter him in a tournament against the bully kutta, and while you’re at it you can bury him over there. Or go to japan and face a tosa, central asia to face a volodakov, or turkey and enter a match with a kangal. read up on the subject boys, you might learn something. Go to pavelbooks and you can see many facts about pitbulls, ha ha ha. Ffrom many, many conversations, the pit doesn;t come close to beating all challengers worldwide, so you need to recheck your info did and get embarrasssing yourselves, teenyboppers. Hell, in one of stratton;s books a damn monkey beat the hell out’ve a pit with a rod in a match. ha ha ha. Open your mind boys, you might learn something. I’ve talked to servicemen who were stationed overseas and saw pits being destroyed by these dogs in matches. So, don;t think we’ll trust you gman or bob, since you have no facts, just biased, uninformed, uneducated, and juvenile opinions.

108. dogs18 - May 1st, 2008 at 4:37 pm

One of the best watch dogs I have ever owned was a dingo.She was one bad ass dog.But I have to agree with all of those dogs I have owned two of those breeds and they who both really good dogs.but I think a dingo should be put up there.

109. dogs18 - May 1st, 2008 at 4:46 pm

This is for gman and bob.I own a pitbull and I must say he is a very strong and fast dog but if he went up against a boerboel,dingo,or even cane corso the dog would get it ass kicked, and not just my pit all pits.Dingos are not heavywights they are just like pits, but stronger,and faster and would kill a pitull.

110. sgthacker - May 8th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

Getting back to the original intent of this forum, rather than the juvenile my pit can whip anything crap, please don’t discount the thousands of mixed-breed dogs in shelters across the country. Something like a german shepherd/chesapeake bay retrieve mix, or a lab/great pyrenese mix, etc would should make a worthy guard dog, and you would be saving a life. Again as far as pits, the smaller game bred animals tend to be the gamest animals, but gice up WAY too much wait to the MUCH larger asian and european fighting dogs, while the larger and dare say cross bred pits tend not to be the best fighters form all res