Top 10 Astonishing Miracles
Published on July 14, 2008 - 288 Comments
[WARNING: some images may disturb] Whether you believe in miracles or not, there is an enormous amount of documentation for seemingly inexplicable events over the centuries that many people believe to be the work of God Himself. In this list I have tried to pick the ten most interesting of these cases. This list is partly in response to the numerous people who have emailed me complaining of an atheistic bias on the site. Hopefully this will finally prove, once and for all, that we will write and publish lists on any topic and that we are open-minded enough not to exclude certain points of view. Finally, for obvious reasons (see item 1 here), this list does not include any tele-evangelist “faith healers”.
A Marian apparition is an event in which the Virgin Mary is believed to have supernaturally appeared to one or more persons regardless of their religious faith. They are often given names based on the town in which they were reported, or on the sobriquet which was given to Mary on the occasion of the apparition. They have been interpreted in psychological terms as pareidolia, and in religious terms as theophanies. Probably the most famous of these apparitions were the visions of St Bernadette at Lourdes (related item 6 on this list), and three children in Fatima (related item 1 on this list). In both cases, the people involved said that the Virgin Mary gave them predictions of future events and preached prayer and penance. The famous case of Our Lady of Zeitoun took place in Zeitoun, Cairo, and contrary to the norm, the apparition was witnessed by millions of people over a period of 2 to 3 years. The apparition was even caught on film (as seen in the photograph above). The Coptic Orthodox Pope of Alexandria in Cairo issued a statement that the apparitions were real. The Catholic Church has yet to issue an official statement. You can view video footage here.
Incorruptibility is the name given to the situation in which a dead person does not decay after death. The orthodox church consider it essential in considering a person for canonization as a saint, and the Roman Catholic Church consider it as sign of sainthood but not a necessity. Additionally, the Catholic Church believes that a body is not deemed incorruptible if it has undergone an embalming process or other means of preserving the dead, or if it has become stiff, as do all normal corpses, even when the best preservation techniques are used. Incorruptible saints remain completely flexible, as if they were only sleeping. Incorruptible bodies are often said to have the Odour of Sanctity, exuding a sweet aroma. Over the years there have been hundreds of Saints whose bodies have been found to be incorrupt - some many hundreds of years after their death. In the image above we see St Bernadette as she appears today - 129 years after her death. For more astonishing pictures of incorruptible corpses (including the incorrupt body of St Silvan who died over 1,500 years ago), visit the Top 10 Incorrupt Corpses. [Source]
Therese Neumann was a German Catholic mystic and stigmatic. On March 10, 1918, Therese Neumann was partially paralyzed after falling off a stool while attending to a fire in her uncle’s barn. She sustained more falls and injuries during this period. After one particular fall in 1919, she lost much of her eyesight. Therese reported that her eyesight was fully restored on April 29, 1923 — the day Therese of Lisieux was beatified (the first step to sainthood) in Rome. She said that on March 5, 1926, the first Friday of Lent, a wound had appeared slightly above her heart, but that she had kept this secret. However, she did report a vision of Jesus at Mount Olivet with three Apostles. On Easter Sunday, she claimed a vision of the resurrection of Christ. For several consecutive Fridays after that, she stated she was experiencing the Passion of Christ, supposedly suffering in her own body along with all his historic agonies. She especially suffered the Passion on Good Fridays each year. By November 5, 1926, she displayed nine wounds on her head as well as wounds on her back and shoulders (most of which are visible in the image above). According to several sources these wounds never healed or became infected and were found on her body at death. From the years of 1922 until her death in 1962, Therese Neumann said she had consumed no food other than The Holy Eucharist, and to have drunk no water from 1926 until her death. In July 1927 a medical doctor and four Franciscan nurses kept a watch on her 24 hours a day for a two-week period. They confirmed that she had consumed nothing except for one consecrated sacred Host a day, and had suffered no ill effects, loss of weight, or dehydration. Formal proceedings for her beatification were begun in 2005. [Source]
In 1973, Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa in Akita, Japan had visions of the Virgin Mary. On June 28, 1973, a cross-shaped wound appeared on the inside left hand of Sr. Agnes. It bled profusely and caused her much pain. On July 6, Sr. Agnes heard a voice coming from the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the chapel where she was praying. The statue was carved from a single block of wood from a Katsura tree and is three feet tall. On the same day, a few of the sisters noticed drops of blood flowing from the statue’s right hand. The wound in the statue’s hand remained until September 29, when it disappeared. On September 29, the day the wound on the statue disappeared, the sisters noticed the statue had now begun to “sweat”, especially on the forehead and neck. Two years later on January 4, 1975, the statue of the Blessed Virgin began to weep. It continued to weep at intervals for the next 6 years and eight months. It wept on 101 occasions. Scientific analysis of blood and tears from the statute provided by Professor Sagisaka of the faculty of Legal Medicine of the University of Akita confirmed that the blood, tears, and perspiration are real human tears, sweat, and blood. They come from three blood groups: O, B, and AB. Sr. Agnes was also completely cured of total deafness. In June 1988, Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) - head of the Office of Inquisition - judged the Akita events and messages as reliable and worthy of belief.
The apparitions of Our Lady of Lourdes began on 11 February 1858, when Bernadette Soubirous, a 14-year old peasant girl from Lourdes admitted, when questioned by her mother, that she had seen a “lady” in the cave of Massabielle, about a mile from the town, while she was gathering firewood with her sister and a friend. Similar appearances of the “lady” took place on seventeen further occasions that year. During one of the apparitions, she was directed by the “lady” to dig near a rock and drink from the spring there - there was a small puddle of mud in the place but as Bernadette dug in to it, a large spring appeared - this is the source of the water in the grotto to which millions of people flock for miraculous cures every year. The Lourdes Medical Bureau have declared 68 cases of inexplicable cures (out of thousands tested). You can read more on the scientific bureau here. [Source]
Joseph of Cupertino is an Italian saint. He was said to have been remarkably unclever, but prone to miraculous levitation, and intense ecstatic visions that left him gaping. In turn, he is recognized as the patron saint of air travelers, aviators, people with a mental handicap, and weak students. He was canonized in 1767. On October 4, 1630, the town of Cupertino held a procession on the feast day of Saint Francis of Assisi. Joseph was assisting in the procession when he suddenly soared into the sky, where he remained hovering over the crowd. When he descended and realized what had happened, he became so embarrassed that he fled to his mother’s house and hid. This was the first of many flights, which soon earned him the nickname “The Flying Saint.” Joseph’s most famous flight allegedly occurred during a papal audience before Pope Urban VIII. When he bent down to kiss the Pope’s feet, he was suddenly filled with reverence for the Pope, and was lifted up into the air. He experienced ecstasies and flights (witnessed by thousands) during his last mass which was on the Feast of the Assumption 1663. Apple Inc.’s headquarters are in the California town of Cupertino, which was named after this saint. A film (the Reluctant Saint) was made about St Joseph - you can see a small clip of it at youtube (warning: it contains some serious over-acting - but has some humor too). [Source]
Saint Juan Diego Cuauhtlatoatzin was an indigenous Mexican who reported an apparition of the Virgin Mary as Our Lady of Guadalupe in 1531. He had a significant impact on the spread of the Catholic faith within Mexico. According to Juan Diego, he returned home that night to his uncle Juan Bernardino’s house, and discovered him seriously ill. The next morning December 12, Juan Diego decided not to meet with the Lady, but to find a priest who could administer the last rites to his dying uncle. When he tried to skirt around Tepeyac hill, the Lady intercepted him, assured him his uncle would not die, and asked him to climb the hill and gather the flowers he found there. It was December, when normally nothing blooms in the cold. There he found roses from the region of Castille in Spain, former home of bishop Zumárraga. The Lady re-arranged the roses carefully inside the folded tilma that Juan Diego wore and told him not to open it before anyone but the bishop. When Juan Diego unfolded his tilma before the Bishop roses cascaded from his tilma, and an icon of Our Lady of Guadalupe was miraculously impressed on the cloth, bringing the bishop to his knees. The bishop acknowledged the miracle and within two weeks, ordered a shrine to be built where the Virgin Mary had appeared. The original tilma (pictured above) is on display in Guadalupe today and is one of the most frequently visited pilgrimage sites in the world. [Source]
Francesco Forgione, later known as Padre Pio, canonized as Saint Pio of Pietrelcina, was an Italian Roman Catholic Capuchin priest who is now venerated as a saint in the Roman Catholic Church. He was given the name Pio when he joined the Order of Friars Minor Capuchin, and was popularly known as Padre Pio after his ordination to the priesthood. He became famous for his stigmata. Based on Padre Pio’s correspondence, even early in his priesthood he experienced less obvious indications of the visible stigmata for which he would later become famous. Though Padre Pio would have preferred to suffer in secret, by early 1919, news about the stigmatic friar began to spread in the secular world. Padre Pio’s wounds were examined by many people, including physicians. People who had started rebuilding their lives after World War I began to see in Padre Pio a symbol of hope. Those close to him attest that he began to manifest several spiritual gifts including the gifts of healing, bilocation, levitation, prophecy, miracles, extraordinary abstinence from both sleep and nourishment (One account states that Padre Agostino recorded one instance in which Padre Pio was able to subsist for at least 20 days at Verafeno on only the Eucharist without any other nourishment), the ability to read hearts, the gift of tongues, the gift of conversions, and the fragrance from his wounds. Rather than using an image, I have used a video clip of St Pio - you can see his hands concealed by fingerless gloves to hide his stigmata. You may also be interested in this clip in which St Pio’s grave and coffin are opened (on March 3, 2008) revealing that his body is incorrupt. His body is now on display in San Giovanni Rotondo. [Source]
In the city of Lanciano, Italy, around A.D. 700, a Basilian monk and priest was assigned to celebrate the Eucharistic sacrifice in the Latin Rite in the small Church of St.Legontian. Usually celebrating in the Greek Rite and using leavened bread and having been taught that unleavened bread was invalid matter for the Holy Sacrifice he was disturbed to be constrained to use unleavened bread and had trouble believing that the miracle of transubtantiation would take place with unleavened bread. During the Mass, when he said the words of consecration, he saw the bread change into live flesh and the wine change into live blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size. Various ecclesiastical investigations have been conducted upon the miracle, and the evidence of the miracle remains in Lanciano to this day. In 1970-71, Professors from the University of Siena conducted a scientific investigation into the miracle. They concluded that the flesh and blood are human flesh and blood. The Flesh is a heart complete in its essential structure. The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood type, AB, which is also the same blood type found on the Shroud of Turin and all other Eucharistic Miracles. The Host-Flesh, which is the same size as the large Host used today in the Latin Church, is fibrous and light brown in color, and becomes rose-colored when lighted from the back. The Blood consists of five coagulated globules and has an earthly color resembling the yellow of ochre. [Source]
The Miracle of the Sun is an alleged miraculous event witnessed by as many as 100,000 people on 13 October 1917 in the Cova da Iria fields near Fátima, Portugal. Those in attendance had assembled to observe what the Portuguese secular newspapers had been ridiculing for months as the absurd claim of three shepherd children that a miracle was going to occur at high-noon in the Cova da Iria on October 13, 1917. According to many witness statements, after a downfall of rain, the dark clouds broke and the sun appeared as an opaque, spinning disk in the sky. It was said to be significantly less bright than normal, and cast multicolored lights across the landscape, the shadows on the landscape, the people, and the surrounding clouds. The sun was then reported to have careened towards the earth in a zigzag pattern, frightening some of those present who thought it meant the end of the world. Some witnesses reported that their previously wet clothes became “suddenly and completely dry.” Estimates of the number of witnesses range from 30,000-40,000 by Avelino de Almeida, writing for the Portuguese newspaper O Século, to 100,000, estimated by Dr. Joseph Garrett, professor of natural sciences at the University of Coimbra, both of whom were present that day. The miracle was attributed by believers to Our Lady of Fátima, an apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary to three young shepherd children in 1917, as having been predicted by the three children on 13 July, 19 August, and 13 September 1917. The children reported that the Lady had promised them that she would on 13 October reveal her identity to them and provide a miracle “so that all may believe.” The event was officially accepted as a miracle by the Roman Catholic Church on 13 October 1930. In the image above you can see some of the many witnesses photographed during the event. [Source]
This article is licensed under the GFDL because it contains extracts from Wikipedia (as cited within the body of the text above).
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1. stevenh - July 14th, 2008 at 3:52 am
Funny how, with all the people in the world, miracles are only listed for Catholics…
2. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 3:54 am
stevenh: try as I might, there were no astonishing miracles I could find otherwise. And coupled with the fact that the Catholic religion is larger than all the other Christian groups put together, I guess the chances are higher
3. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 3:55 am
Oh - the first one is Coptic Orthodox as well - so that is one non-Catholic religion
4. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 3:56 am
By “first one” I mean number 10 btw.
5. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 4:01 am
stevenh: true - it is interesting - perhaps it is to do with the mysticism side of Christianity - which is an especially large part of Catholicism and lesser so in others. Wikipedia says this:
6. stevenh - July 14th, 2008 at 4:01 am
True on the Coptic. It’s just that I’ve noticed that the followers of Jesus seen to have a lot more appearances (aka apparitions, visions, goasts, images in toast) than other humans on this planet.
7. anony - July 14th, 2008 at 4:05 am
so this is the top 10 astonishing things people made up?
8. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 4:07 am
anony: I am sure that even a logical non-believer wouldn’t take that line - at least 30,000 people witnessed number 1 - if you are a non-believer surely you would be arguing for something like mass hysteria rather than presuming that many people would just make it up.
9. Sunshine Capone - July 14th, 2008 at 4:30 am
The crying, sweating, and bleeding statue doesn’t appear to be a miracle; it’s more like a nightmare! Seriously, how creepy is that?
10. WarningDontReadThis - July 14th, 2008 at 4:36 am
Very good list Jfrater. I’m always freaked out by miracles cause sometimes they are very convincing and I have to remind my self that there is always an explanation for things.
I think I heard about nr 6 in a Richard Dawkins documentry. Nr 7 is very weird. The flying saint is sort of a fun miarcle
I wouldnt want to be nr 8. It looks messy..
11. stugy - July 14th, 2008 at 4:38 am
Very cool list. Pretty interesting things to think about for the day. I didn’t realize incorruptible corpse had no embalming processes at all and weren’t stiff.
12. Scar - July 14th, 2008 at 4:39 am
I agree with Anony, I wouldn’t believe it unless I saw it.
The incorrupt corpses always looked like wax to me, Have they sone any sort of, exam on the bodies?
13. Mom424 - July 14th, 2008 at 4:39 am
Interesting List, well thought out and informative.
In order to see a miracle, one must be of a frame of mind that accepts them. I see someone bleeding from wounds of mysterious origin, I’m thinking crack addict picking at imaginary bugs or some sort of mental affliction that causes you to wound yourself consciously or sub-consciously. (Most likely explanation if you ask me) Miracle is not the first thing that pops into mind.
I wouldn’t call #1 mass hysteria. More correctly an atmospheric anomaly (and a pretty common one too! at least in Fatima) coupled with grand expectations and religious fervor. Thus the differing accounts of the same phenomena.
Some Christian sects consider jabbering in Tongues and flailing and flopping around in religious ecstasy to be a miracle of possession. Goes to show you the difference point of view makes.
14. WarningDontReadThis - July 14th, 2008 at 4:43 am
I wouldnt say this site has an atheist bias. What a silly thing to say.
15. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 4:44 am
I appreciate the comments so far - I really wasn’t sure what to expect - but as usual, listverse readers show themselves to be thoughtful in their comments!
16. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 4:56 am
Scar: yes - they manipulate the bodies to check for rigormortis - the other unusual feature of them is the smell - people who see the bodies often describe an odor of flowers coming from the corpse.
17. Raz - July 14th, 2008 at 4:58 am
jfrater: As you said at least 30,000 people witnessed this “miracle” and does the fact that the majority were farmers and poorly education people, with christianity on their minds make a difference? I think so, if UFO’s landed in Saudi Arabia at the time of mohammed, it would have been deemed an act of Allah…
Although the evidence is still somewhat compelling for some of these “miracles”, the witnesses are mostly uneducated, the places are usually rural areas and the times are always long ago.
I’d much sooner believe the account of thousands of witnesses of a “miracle” which appeared above London, New York, Paris, Tokyo or any other widely developed, advanced and populated area, where cameras are readily active, and intelligent people will surely be at hand.
18. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 5:09 am
Raz: there were scientists and skeptics present - who were there in order to debunk the whole thing and report that nothing happened - but then something did happen. Here is a quote from wikipedia:
This is one of many from Doctors, Priests (who were certainly not uneducated), and reporters of highly respected papers. Something definitely happened - I guess the question is - what?
19. astraya - July 14th, 2008 at 5:24 am
Someone said of miracles “To the believer, no explanation is necessary; to the unbeliever, no explanation is possible”.
Compared to the extensive debunking of psychics elsewhere, this list tends to accept at face value all the claims made.
So far as I have read, all these occurrences happened in communities where strong faith was already part of the group conscious and subconscious. People were brought up with the belief that “miracles happen”. They may not have been expecting to see a miracle, but they were open to the possibility. The physic debunker (I’ve forgotten his name) expects not to see physic powers, so therefore doesn’t.
I have a few more comments, but I’ll sleep on them first before I start treading on toes, or deciding not to.
20. jfrater - July 14th, 2008 at 5:36 am
astraya: the psychic debunker is mentioned in the intro - with a link to the list of his debunkings
I appreciate what you are saying about expectations - but how does a person’s expectation cause a statue to bleed? The secretions were tested in a science lab.
Surely there is a better explanation than simply “people were ignorant” or “people were brainwashed” - the explanations so often given without a thought - something more firm would be nice
Incidentally - that is not a criticism of you specifically - it is a criticism of people who don’t believe but aren’t willing to try to find evidence for their views.
I don’t say these are real or not - I am just presenting them - but the fact remains - in all of the above cases no hard evidence can explain conclusively the cause of the events.
21. DiscHuker - July 14th, 2008 at 6:06 am
from a believer’s standpoint, i can concur that they happened, but what was the source is a different question. the purpose of a miracle, as reported in the bible, is to bring glory to God, not the person demonstrating or experiencing said miracle. the response in the miracle of tilma of juan diego is to build a shrine to mary? most of the books of 1 and 2 kings in the old testament talks about how one kings sets up “high places”(altars and shrines to other gods) and was seen as doing evil and then how another king tears those places down and is seen as doing pleasing things in the sight of God.
i definately have a place for the acceptance of miracles done by God in my theology. i’m not so sure these qualify.
22. Cheeshygirl - July 14th, 2008 at 6:15 am
Interesting list, Jamie. I had never heard of incorruptibles. I must have missed your prior list but now I am all caught up.
I believe miracles are what you make of them. Who am I to say what others believe is false or dumb? I say this because I can already see the heat this topic will cause and I think we all need to remember that none of us is better than any other. Let’s respect each others rights and beliefs. Mmkay?
23. DiscHuker - July 14th, 2008 at 6:30 am
one of the funny thing i think about skeptics is that they assume that all involved are idiots.
how arrogant is it to believe that the only reason people believe is because they haven’t been enlightened to your powers of rationality. do you not think that the other skeptics in the area have shown up to try and disprove these phenomena also?
24. spirito.aspro - July 14th, 2008 at 6:40 am
about Padre Pio: a italian historian has written in a book that the ‘more or less’ Saint buyed a lot of phenol acid from a pharmacist for making wounds on his hand. And also another critical point of view argue on the wrong position of the wounds.
25. spirito.aspro - July 14th, 2008 at 6:47 am
sorry for english errors :((
26. JB - July 14th, 2008 at 6:54 am
The miracle of the Sun is what nowdays will be considered a first contact, an UFO sighting. Maybe there’s something out there that we still don’t undersand, but in any case we’ll reach it through real science some day.
Some others are just fake. So many bleeding statues have been appeared and they were all fake. Ah! Of course, after 99 demonstrated fake ones the number 100 wouldn’t have any trick and will be a miracle.
Trying to relate all this incidents with religios miracles is just hilarious. Every time someone makes his invention, Vatican authorities send some “experts” to report it. If the trick isn’t obvious they will say it’s a miracle and use it as propaganda for the dying faith.
27. Ghidoran - July 14th, 2008 at 6:57 am
Sad to say, I wasn’t expecting much, bt after reading number ten I expected great things. Then I read the rest of the list, and I felt it to be too similar in terms of content. Also, some parts suggest it to be an excuse for the aethist lists/biases on this site. But overall, 3/5
28. Kreachure - July 14th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Wow, Jamie is defending this list like there’s no tomorrow…
Anyways, I found it quite interesting, given that these miracles seem to be well-documented. I liked #1 the most, and I hadn’t heard of it before (although I’d heard of story of the Lady of Fatima’s visions). Even if it was some sort of unusual atmospheric phenomenon, how the hell would anyone, let alone three shepherd children, know exactly when it was going to happen?
I consider myself deeply rational and skeptical. I don’t ascribe myself to any religion, but I do believe in God in a way that religions do not define. Some have already said that these things happen only in communities that expect these kind of things to happen at some level. I think that being open to the possibility is certainly a factor that somehow allows these phenomena to happen: not because people have been brainwashed into seeing things that aren’t really there, but because they have a mindset that allows them to expect and see these phenomena.
I believe that the power of the mind has been severely underestimated especially in modern times; so if thousands or even millions of people strongly believe in the same thing with fervor, isn’t there a slight chance that their minds alone may be able to somehow trigger strange effects in reality?
If we already knew the answers to oh-so-many mysteries yet to be explained in this world, I would say no. But there’s still so much we don’t know or understand yet, that I’m compelled to say at least “maybe”.
Keep an open mind, everyone. You might end up being witness to things you never expected to see…
PS. I want to see the video footage of the Marian apparition, but I’m too scared!
29. Yun - July 14th, 2008 at 7:01 am
I love pseudo-skeptics. They spend all their time screaming, “There’s no evidence,” but when someone DOES present evidence (like this list) they all just grumble about how the witnesses are uneducated rubes, victims of brainwashing, or make the even more absurd claim that they all just “made it up.”
Atheists are no different from Creationists. Both groups decide offhand that fact which contradict their beliefs are not “facts” at all, and dismiss them without a second thought.
At least Theists have the decency to ADMIT that we make leaps of faith.
30. Jennie - July 14th, 2008 at 7:03 am
When I think of miracles I always think of fraud, halucinations, drugs or disease in the water or food.
Illusionists create miracles all the time and in view of hundreds of people. So, why can’t these miracles be Illusions as well?
31. Ghidoran - July 14th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Also, incorruptible corpses seems amazing! But I don’t understand no.2, does bread and wine still turn into flesh and blood?
32. Jay - July 14th, 2008 at 7:19 am
The Incorruptible corpse is pictured wearing a wax mask I think. The skin stills rots away does it not?
33. Yun - July 14th, 2008 at 7:19 am
#31 Ghidoran
Catholics believe that the bread and wine is the body and blood of Christ, but in most cases this is a spiritual change, not a physical one. It’s more than a symbol, but anyone with taste buds can tell it’s still physically the same as it was before the blessing. Even for the most devout Catholic an actual physical change, like what happened in #2, would be an immensely shocking experience.
34. kowzilla - July 14th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Did anyone else really like the religious muzak that plays when you open up the video of the Marian Apparition in Zeitoun?
Also to Warning Don’t Read This (#10),
I’ll bet that Richard Dawkins was VERY accepting of this miracle in his film.
35. DiscHuker - July 14th, 2008 at 7:33 am
yun: i was thinking the same thing
36. WarningDontReadThis - July 14th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Kowzilla: Oh you know Dawkins he smiled and was very nice and complimented the nice americans that sat on their chairs waiting to be blessed.
Kreachure: Me too.
There is always an explanation. Cant say that enough.
37. WarningDontReadThis - July 14th, 2008 at 7:46 am
And now we’re talking about UFOs? This keeps getting better.
38. Sidereus - July 14th, 2008 at 7:55 am
I am not Catholic and I am highly skeptical of supposed Catholic miracles. I do believe, however, that God both can and does perform miracles, so I do not immediately discredit the items on this list. The incorruptible corpses is particularly interesting to me as it could potentially be studied and verified. Sitings of apparitions, however, are difficult to reproduce. The miracle of the sun is also intriguing and clearly not an eclipse or some such phenomenon.
As both a Christian and a student of Psychology, I see an interesting pattern where those who believe in miracles are the ones who see them. Christians call it the power of faith. Psychologists describe it as our expectations becoming a sort of self-fulfilling prophesy. But we should understand that just as the mind and body are not separate creatures, a person’s spirituality and cognition are also tied. An explanation for one does not negate the other, but enriches the experience for both. In other words, Psychology may be right about how the brain functions in order to allow the belief in the supernatural, but that does not necessarily mean there is not also a spiritual component. And I would guess that there is! After all, if God made us and wanted us to believe, he would have given our brains the capacity to think in that way.
39. CFEstes - July 14th, 2008 at 7:59 am
So how could all of those people stand there for all that time looking directly into the sun in mid afternoon without some sort of protection for their eyes?
40. deadangst - July 14th, 2008 at 8:02 am
Great list JFrater.
I always believe that there are many things in life / nature / universe that we do not know about. Just because we don’t know, or cannot comprehend them, doesn’t mean they are fake or fraud.
A tribe living in the amazonian rain forest would be equally disbelieving about an aeroplane, as we are about so called visions and apparitions.
It’s also funny how we take electricity, telephones, wireless, air & space travel, computers, internet, almost everything in our daily lives as matter-of-fact, when just a few hundred years ago all these everyday things would have been deemed as miracles.
41. kris - July 14th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Miracles do happen… I have witnessed them twice when was in IOW…
but the things I see India which people say they are miracles are actually not!!!
My Cousin Pat’s wife who is an Indian took me to some one who is famous for doing healings and miracles (ppl who want to know what my problem is can check a list(amazing facts about dreams)
the place were went was horrible or I say more than that…it was very scary… it was a small dark room and many people sitting out side in a row… and If anyone remembers the movie of Indiana Jones and the temple of doon - in that you will have an idol called Kalimaa… I saw that idol in *Place* and there was fresh blood on it…
and i almost fainted the very moment…
I didn’t agree to stay there at all as I thought they are devilish…
So Miracles do happen even by Bad people!!!
42. Kate - July 14th, 2008 at 8:15 am
That is incredible. I’m not Catholic (rather, Jewish) but I do believe that many of these events are beyond scientific explanation. Incorruptible corpses? That lady has been dead for 129 years! That’s unbelievable.
43. Stephen - July 14th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Some of these should be able to explain, however, the incorrupt bodies just baffles me.
I looked for some explanation, however, people can only hypthoesize that its “very slow decomposition”
44. eraserhead - July 14th, 2008 at 8:35 am
JB: You believe in UFO’s but you dismiss everything on the list as fake and “just hilarious”. The same could be said about your UFOs.
Quote: “Every time someone makes his invention, Vatican authorities send some “experts” to report it. If the trick isn’t obvious they will say it’s a miracle and use it as propaganda for the dying faith.”
Skepticism relating to this list is great, and engaging in dialog between believers and non-believers is very positive and healthy, but this close-minded tirade is damaging. It angers the believers and it discredits the non-believers.
45. ninjajim - July 14th, 2008 at 8:40 am
DicHuker: I agree with your comment one hundred percent. It is often a sign of overwhelming arrogance as well as stubbornness that leads people to not only completely dismiss the views and beliefs of others but insult them as well. Its funny how you never see believers going on to the lists which have a more or less atheistic angle telling everyone who doesn’t believe that they are going to hell. Everybody always scoffs and laughs at those who believe asking us to prove outright that there is a God, and then laugh when we can provide no evidence which lives up to their standards. However, I have yet to see any athiest or skeptic give convincing and definitive evidence that God, or a god does not exist. The fallacy can work both ways people.
Jfrater: I find this list very interesting, just like 99% of the lists on this site! I’m not a catholic myself, but I am a Baptist and I find a few of these to be persuading(#10 #2 and #9). I often don’t believe eyewitness accounts unless there are multiple accounts of them which agree. It is just too easy for someone to fabricate a miracle for their own glory, not God’s. And yes I am an educated person and am quite skeptical about many things as well. I choose, however to believe in a higher power which humans, as of yet cannot explain, and probably never will.
JB: Get over yourself, where is all of your evidence proving that each of these miracles is fake? Other than your “impressive” powers of reasoning you have provided nothing which supports your claims. Also I find it funny that someone can dismiss claims such as these (and any religious claim, miraculous or not) so easily, yet believes in UFOs which have even less recorded accounts and evidence for their existence.
46. Csimmons - July 14th, 2008 at 8:45 am
wow, great list, very well thought out, #1 I would classify as mass hysteria though.
47. ninjajim - July 14th, 2008 at 8:46 am
*DiscHuker not DicHuker, ha ha sorry!
48. Einar - July 14th, 2008 at 8:48 am
If God appeared in the sky and said, in what has to be a de facto booming voice, “I am God, believe in me.”….would you? If you saw God for yourself, would you believe..just like that? Would you start praying everyday, listening to Him, acting like He wants us to? Or would you blame the experience on drugs, or a gas leak, or a sign of your pending insanity?
Miracles aren’t a one shot cure for skepticism or hostility.
49. Randy - July 14th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Raz: re#29- “I’d much sooner believe the account of thousands of witnesses of a “miracle” which appeared above London, New York, Paris, Tokyo or any other widely developed, advanced and populated area, where cameras are readily active, and intelligent people will surely be at hand.”
Are you saying that rural, uneducated people are not intelligent? Are you saying intelligent people are only found in large, developed cities? If so, that is a very prejudiced comment to make. Formal education does not equal intelligence. There are many intelligent people who have had no formal education. Just because someone lives in a rural, under-developed area does not automatically make them unintelligent.
50. Blogball - July 14th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Nice list and well researched jfrater. There is a pretty good movie called “The Song of Bernadette” staring Jennifer Jones about the Lourdes miracle
51. cory - July 14th, 2008 at 8:58 am
as always a fantastic list, but it saddens me to see so many people being so rude about others beliefs. if you don’t beleive thats fine if you do thats fine as well, but mocking or disrespecting is not a great way to start any kind of conversation/debate, just my two cents worth
52. BishopWhiteT - July 14th, 2008 at 9:02 am
DiscHuker: you hit the nail on the head. Many of these “Miracles” don’t bring glory to God, but rather to the recepient of the event, such as candidacy for sainthood, or the desire to worship someone other than God Himself (i.e. Mary). We have been specifically warned about such deceptions by God himself.
To those who profess no faith in the supernatural whatsoever, I say that it takes a much bigger leap of faith to believe that things arrived at the current order from chaos than to believe a creator was involved. Evidence of a creator is the creation itself, or perhaps you think that the computer you are looking at right now “just happened”.
As a final note to the non-believers, when I say you have more faith than believers, I really mean it. You have so much faith in your viewpoint that you are willing to risk punishment for eternity without any payoff. Good luck with that.
53. romerozombie - July 14th, 2008 at 9:06 am
I can’t believe some people would e-mail in saying the site is too atheist. Have they not seen all the unbiased religous lists, especially the one listing quotes to support faith?
I’ve always thought atheism (or agnosticism) was pretty much the default setting for people. After all, you can only believe in what you’re taught to believe in.
54. Shaner5000 - July 14th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Joey Ramone believes in this list.
55. Marcelo - July 14th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Holly crap!
56. amoondoo - July 14th, 2008 at 9:09 am
my high school is named Our lady of lourdes High school after the lourdes miracle!
57. SlickWilly - July 14th, 2008 at 9:12 am
I certainly do not think that offering skeptical alternatives to the described miracles above is in any way arrogant, stubborn, or ignorant. I think that doing so in a cock-sure, arrogant, conceited way is stubborn and ignorant. Those who so readily dismiss the beliefs of another and all the peripheral evidence as bunch of hooey are deluding themselves into a kind of superior knowledge. This is disingenuous. There have been thousands of people, thousands of times smarter than any one person on this board who have pondered theological questions and never arrived at a satisfactory answer. To operate as if you are one of the privileged few that have a bit of knowledge so far above the heads of everyone else that all who are not privy are somehow “beneath” you is ignorant. Those that do this are often trying to prove something to themselves, so if you are a believer, pay no attention to these persons. They will eventually dig their own holes.
However, that being said, I also think it is disingenuous for believers to so readily accept these “miracles” as true signs from God, without asking any questions whatsoever. It is not arrogant to suggest that suggestive psychology and lack of education might have parts to play in the perception of a miracle, as the suggestive power of the mind has been scientifically proven to be incomprehensibly powerful, and the lower the level of education, the greater the reliance on religion as a tool of social solidarity. As someone has suggested already, magians have concocted elaborate illusions that, if the base audience was not already aware of our present technological capabilities, would appear to be miracles, or works of powerful magic. There are many phenomena that have been observed that occur for one reason or another that can function parallel to one another and produce the results of what we see here. Coupled with powerful imaginations and strong, base desires for spiritual vindication, there is a strong possbility that scientific, natural explanations exists for all of the events listed above.
58. Randall - July 14th, 2008 at 9:15 am
jfrater:
This was a great list Jamie… deserving of a spot somewhere in some future book of lists, even. Well done and well-researched.
I’ve never heard a convincing explanation for what happened at Fatima, though I’m open to ideas. Earth lights never did it for me.
The fave explanation for stigmata, of course, is that it is self-inflicted–even unknowingly so. Perhaps, but it too always fell a tad short for me… that is, if all stories about stigmatics can be wholly believed. (pardon the pun).
59. SlickWilly - July 14th, 2008 at 9:24 am
I wish people could just act like the adults they tell themselves they are in their more self-important moments. I am an atheist, but I absolutely hate those of us that go around acting as if all religious people are ignorant. That is simply untrue, and anyone who would suggest that are themselves ignorant. That being said, I also find quite annoying those fervent believers that are as arrogant to believe that atheists care even a little bit about the reasons they will supposedly “go to hell.” I find it also quite hypocritcal that those people charge atheists with “leaps of faith,” as if they themselves were making the obviously more rational and logical choice and atheists are simply deluded. If anyone even has the guts to read this far into the passage, I would like to ask all the reasonable adults out there to please respect the beliefs of other people. This has become a problem on both sides around the LV recently, and it needs to stop. Anyone who does not wish to conduct themselves with a bit of deference can navigate away to another site. If these rampant problems don’t change, drastic measures might be in order.
60. Joss - July 14th, 2008 at 9:34 am
This might be one of the best lists on listverse. Very interesting, creepy and thought inspiring.
61. Joss - July 14th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Oh, btw, the title of this list should probably be Top 10 Astonishing Modern Day Miracles, because there are some pretty crazy ones in the bible.
62. trojan_man - July 14th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Slick: Hear, hear! I am actually a non-practicing atheist so I totally understand your feelings. In my mind, people deserve respect until they do something to lose it. We don’t get to decide just by what they believe.
63. infallibleangel - July 14th, 2008 at 9:56 am
This is a good list. I don’t quite know myself what to make of them… as I’ve never been to any of these spots… only know a little bit about them… and am also not Catholic.
I guess I am intrinsically leaning toward not believing these events are acts of God.
If God, or Jesus, or Mother Mary decided to perform such miracles… these ones seem pointless. They seem like “parlour tricks” (which is condescending of the nature of God in the first place), and do nothing to better the world or ease any suffering or anything like that. If they wanted to perform miracles… why not do some worthwhile ones to help people… like send down some manna to Ethiopia or something?
Again, I’m not all-familiar with the teachings of the Catholic Church, and I’m sure that there is someone on here who can explain why it has to be that only redundant Celestial Wonderworks and Holy Cameos are the only miracles appropriate for our poor world…(original sin, maybe?) but as of now… I’m not buying it.
64. Idreno - July 14th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Thanks so much for this great list!
I would like to make some brief comments. Firstly, I’ve always believed that all things in the world must have there equal opposite in order for there to be true balance…there must be dark in order for their to be light, good things cannot be truly good unless there are bad things to counter them, nothing can be described as high if it is not juxtaposed to something described as low. I think miracles work in this similar way. Great miracles do not happen often, but when they do, they happen in a big way. If we had great miracles, such as these listed, on a daily basis, there would be less value to them. I do believe that miracles of all sizes and purposes occur daily within our lives and the lives of millions of people…many go unnoticed, but they are always there. It is audacious for humans to attempt to completely understand miraculous phenomena: it’s one thing to seek some level of explanation and perhaps proof, but it is another to suppose understanding of the purpose or reasoning behind the miracle.
I have in my European travels come across several incorrupted bodies of saints in churches and monastaries (especially in Italy) and I promise you that these things are real, and no, the skin doesn’t not always rot. The one place of Miracles that I have visited is Loreto, Italy, which has the house of Mary as well as the venerated statue, the Black Madonna. It’s worth looking up on Wikipedia!
I remember being told by my grandmother that the body of St. Francis, which had been kept (and might still be kept) in the catacombs of Assisi is incorrupted and she was witness to this, but at the same time, I know for a fact that the new Downtown Cathedral in L.A. says they have some of the bones of St. Francis in their reliquary (sp?)…I haven’t been able to find too much information regarding this. St. Francis was also a stigmatic.
65. WarningDontReadThis - July 14th, 2008 at 10:06 am
You tell’em Slick.
66. Anne O’Nemus - July 14th, 2008 at 10:16 am
I find it interesting that the type of blood found in many miracles are type AB blood. Now, (this is just conjecture) but perhaps type AB blood was far more prevalent hundreds of years ago? Or has the ratios changed?? Because, one would think it is most likely type O blood (more than 50% of people, despite being a recessive trait) and not the rarest of all blood types, AB. Now could someone find out if the ratios of the population with different blood types has changed over the centuries?? AB+ is 2% to 10% in today’s world population, but type AB- is extremely rare, less than 1% in most countries.
67. Brandon - July 14th, 2008 at 10:18 am
This is a miracle if I’ve ever seen it
http://www.newsnet5.com/health.....etail.html
Woman wakes up after 17 hours of death
68. Idreno - July 14th, 2008 at 10:19 am
One last thing regarding the Stigmata. I realize that there has always been tons of debate concerning whether or not Jesus (who was a real person, regardless of whether you accept him as God or not) had been nailed to the cross through his hands or his wrists. The claims state that if a man was to be nailed to a solid object in a vertical position through the hands, the weight of his body would rip through the hands and cause the man to fall, therefore, it would have been more likely to have nailed an individual through the wrists in order to ensure that the body would be securely mounted. Certainly, through the wrist would be even more painful and would probably take more time to accomplish.
There is much evidence to support the idea that Christ was in fact nailed through the hands…scriptures aside…there is no way to disprove the idea that a persons arms would have been tied around the horizontal pieces of a cross to ensure that the body would not fall. We know that, while many aspects of ancient culture are considered crude by today’s standards, they tended to be rather orderly people, especially the Romans. It was Roman officers who enacted the crucifixion, not the Jews, and the Romans were not very ‘messy’ individuals: while they may have enjoyed gruesome spectacle, it was always done in a manner which co-incided with their ideas of cleanliness and simplicity (please do not cite anything about the Colosseum in rebuttle as the majority of people are misinformed about what actually happened in that arena and the attitudes of the proletarian spectators). A nail through a wrist is going to be significantly more messy and disturbing to witness than a nail through a hand.
I personally, accept the idea that Jesus was nailed through his hands and that those individuals who have experienced the Stigmata do so through their hands. There is no way to prove or disprove the idea of ropes having been used to upholster a body against a cross. Going further, do we have any complete evidence of a nail ripping through a human hand in a similar scenario? As far as I can tell, human crucifixion ended a very long time ago and it is highly unlikely that anyone today would begin a series of experiments to find out if one crucified through the hand would actually fall. Lastly, people have argued, well, if ropes were used, the Bible would have described them…this is not always true. As a musician and one who has read and studied many musical writings and treatises of the past, people write with their audience in mind, and ultimately, if someone is writing something about the present, and more importantly about a significant custom or ritual, often times, those authors felt it unnecessary to go into great detail concerning things that their current audience already knew. If tying a man’s arms around a cross was in fact a common facet of crucifixion, there would be no reason to restate something already obvious to the contemporaries of that time period. Even with regards to authors who actually did write with future audiences in mind, it would have been rather moot for them to have described an aspect of a ritual that would seem to be not only completely logical, but even standard.
69. WarningDontReadThis - July 14th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Idreno’s comment reminded me of a wonderful moment in Terry Gilliam’s “Time Bandits” where Kevin askes God why do we have to have evil and he replys:” I think its something to do with free will.”
It was a lovely moment.
70. WarningDontReadThis - July 14th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Idrenos first comment that is.
71. BishopWhiteT - July 14th, 2008 at 10:26 am
SlickWilly: I’m not sure if your comment about “leaps of faith” was directed at what I wrote, but I will say that I agree with almost everything you wrote. I firmly respect the right of anyone to believe what they will, regardless of religion or lack thereof, even if I believe the complete opposite.
In regard to that one remark: it is not hypocritical to suggest that any and all beliefs contain a “leap of faith”, because no one can prove to anyone else that their viewpoint does not require some sort of faith in an unknown element. I do not believe that I am any more or less rational than somone who chooses to believe differently than I, I simply believe what I feel in my heart and mind to be the truth. I do not believe that an opposite viewpoint is inferior to my own, just different.
I generally stay away from discussions of this nature (on this site), as I find religous debates tend to bring out the worst in what is otherwise an extreemly clever, fun and interesting community. It’s a shame that these types of lists often turn into belief-bashing arguments rather than insightful discussions conducted with open minds and genuine willingness to share what may be an opposing viewpoint in a respectful, loving manner. I think most of the regular posters are capable of such a thing, but it is all too easy to let the occasional innane comment stoke the fires of contempt, thus preventing any real, heartfelt passing of information and opinions.
Just my $1.05 (the cost of freedom)
72. jhm - July 14th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Very good list. Skeptics have nothing to say on these. I cant believe that someone would say that all of the people were uneducated and made them all up.
73. Toxic - July 14th, 2008 at 10:39 am
stevenh … most of the animistic and pantheistic religions were destroyed by monotheism and organized religion, so most of the miracles of non-monotheistic religions have been lost or are dismissed as mythology.
To lose connection with divinity is to lose part of the essence of what it is to be human and is the true meaning of the allegory of being expelled from eden. In millions of years there has never been an atheistic civilization or society, and now atheism is merely a response to the hypocrisy/repression of organized religion. Generally people who grow up close to organized monotheistic religions have a monopoly on atheist conversion . To me that makes it pretty apparent that atheism is just as much of a trick as organized religion : 2 sides of the same coin if you will.
It takes a very simple mind to believe only in the third dimensional realm. Wholesale dismissal of the supernatural without first even exploring the theosophical possiblities smacks of the same ignorance that fuels religious bigotry today, not to mention a lack of life experience (almost half the people in the world have had some sort of religious/supernatural/unexplainable experience).
Anony …. so you believe that of all the millions of supernatural/religious experiences that have been reported consistantly throughout history ALL of them are made up? Hahahahahaha that is even more far-fetched than believing in an invisible man in the sky. There is photographical, video, and eye-witness evidence of many unexplainable things.
But I suppose the world will always have the shit-brained rhetoric of atheists to amuse those who are intelligent enough to understand the true nature of reality and the true potential of the human mind/soul, the same way we will always have organized religion to attempt to repress us and turn us away from truth and the infinite potential of human existence.
Jay… the incorruptibles are often covered in wax (such as in the picture above) but if they do rot away it is at a rate that is ridiculously slow.
74. Ducky423 - July 14th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Miracles happen everyday. I truly believe this because I’m holding one right now, my daughter. Are these the same types of miracles as the Bible describes? Only God can truly answer the question.
75. Mathilda - July 14th, 2008 at 11:11 am
This is a great list; very interesting. But I don’t understand why so many people are insisting that these “miracles” must be fake. I’m not religious but that doesn’t mean that something can’t occur that we have no explanation for, as yet. Nor does the fact that I personally haven’t witnessed something mean that it can’t have happened either. I’ve never seen a total solar eclipse but of course they are real. And I’m pretty sure that an eclipse would be terrifying to see if one did not know what was going on, and would seem impossible. I’m willing to believe that these events occurred unless or until someone proves otherwise.
76. JayArr - July 14th, 2008 at 11:28 am
I would be very interested in seeing what sort of forensic pathology reports they’d get when analyzing the blood, sweat, tears, bodies, etc. of any remaining physical evidence of any and all miracles with such evidence. Having had some experience with handling forensic evidence, I have some definite thoughts (which I will not bore anyone with here) regarding the validity thereof in these cases.
I’m glad to see interesting discourse, and am certainly not one to have ever thought of Listverse as being any sort of pulpit for tight-minded agendas of any particular bent.
77. macabresoren - July 14th, 2008 at 11:40 am
SlickWilly, you’re my hero. I personally find the idea of any organized religion… well, scary, to be honest. I also refuse to call myself an athiest, partially because then I’d be a hypocrite, and partially because they’re so associated with bitterness and spitting on people’s beliefs. Religion is a great subject for debate as there’s no definitive right or wrong answer for anything, but so many people don’t debate on it; they bash each other’s opinions and call each other ignorant. It’s really sad, actually.
ANYWAY, I really liked this list. Religious miracle or otherwise, unexplained phenomena is one of my favorite things to read up on.
78. Rosa - July 14th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Very interesting list. I loved it. I had my mom and my brother crowded around my laptop reading these. Awesome list!
79. Nelia - July 14th, 2008 at 11:47 am
As someone who believes that there is more to life that what we can see, and more to life that scientific fact, I try to be open minded. I also believe that just because something cannot be explained scientifically, does not mean that there is not a scientific cause. Just as it is possible that it is a miracle, it is also possible that it is not. People choose to believe unlikely and/or unprovable things, not always religious, everyday and often it has nothing to do with intelligence and education.
Believing or not believing is a choice, and sometimes profound faith makes it an easy choice, whether that is faith in that which we cannot see, or faith in that which we can.
80. JayArr - July 14th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Idreno (#68) - come to find out, Jesus was double-jointed, and they had to nail his hands to the cross after he made several quick escape attempts.
Okay, in the immoral words of Simon Cowell, “Sorry; not sorry. Sorry!” …bad joke…
81. Cubone - July 14th, 2008 at 11:57 am
It’s interesting that someone might discount miracles because of who witnessed them or what part of the wotld they appeared.
Remember the Christ was born to poor uneducated folk in a small village in a remote part of the world.
I have to admit,even though I’m Catholic, some of these creeeeeep me out!
82. Yun - July 14th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
@SlickWilly:
If your reference to “leaps of faith” was directed at me, I encourage you to reread my post and note that my point was not that said leaps are bad, but to point out the hypocrisy of those who claim to be 100% rational and empirical in their conclusions but are, in fact, just as closed minded and willfully ignorant as any Creationist or Jihadi.
I’m a non-practicing Catholic with Omnitheist tendencies, but I’ll be the first to admit that I can’t prove the existence of God conclusively; I just think the evidence is overwhelmingly in His favor. All I want is for the Atheist community to admit that they can’t DISPROVE Him either.
You claim to be a respectful Atheist, and I have no hesitation in saying that that would make you the first I’ve ever met. To a person the only respectful non-Theists I’ve ever met have ALL been Agnostics.
83. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I TOTALLY AGREE with post #21 which states among other things:
“the purpose of a miracle, as reported in the bible, is to bring glory to God, not the person demonstrating or experiencing said miracle.” (sic)
And:
“i definately have a place for the acceptance of miracles done by God in my theology. i’m not so sure these qualify.” (sic)
Post #36 states:
“There is always an explanation. Cant say that enough.”
I would add, “and sometimes the explanation IS God.”
I SO TOTALLY agree with post #52 by BishopWhiteT That I will repost its contents:
“Many of these “Miracles” don’t bring glory to God, but rather to the recepient of the event, such as candidacy for sainthood, or the desire to worship someone other than God Himself (i.e. Mary). We have been specifically warned about such deceptions by God himself.
To those who profess no faith in the supernatural whatsoever, I say that it takes a much bigger leap of faith to believe that things arrived at the current order from chaos than to believe a creator was involved. Evidence of a creator is the creation itself, or perhaps you think that the computer you are looking at right now “just happened”.
As a final note to the non-believers, when I say you have more faith than believers, I really mean it. You have so much faith in your viewpoint that you are willing to risk punishment for eternity without any payoff. Good luck with that.”
Finally, Idreno, someone ACTUALLY did do a study (on a corpse) of whether the hands could support the weight of the body. They, of course, cannot, by themselves, BUT(!), when the feet were nailed, and took some of the pressure off the hands, they could!!
I like what one of my pastors had to say about it when I asked him what he thought. His reply was something along the lines of that even if that man hadn’t proved it could be done just as described in the Bible (without the addition of ropes), that he believes the power of God would have kept Jesus just where he needed to be to accomplish his purpose.
84. Exelcior - July 14th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
“Religion” is pretty funny. Basically it’s a bunch of retards and psychopaths that believe in an invisible man in the sky, and are unable to accept that their life and existence WILL come to an end, that their matter will return to the Earth and eventually to the stars and the universe.
“Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed” -Antoine Lavoisier
85. jack - July 14th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Exelcior - Wow… That was probably the most ignorant thing I’ve read on this site. Ever.
86. Marie - July 14th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
The phenoma/miracle of incorruptible corpses intrigues me greatly. Is it possible that all these corpses had a certain genetic makeup that, when combined with a common dietary element (grape juice/wine?) Were able to be preserved longer and decompose a great deal more slowly than other bodies? The lack of rigor mortis, in addition to no decomposition w/o embalming is so baffling I feel as though I’d have to actually touch/move the corpse’s limb to make sure it was truly incorrupt.
Furthermore, for the statue in no.7, did anyone ever test the blood for DNA and match it to the sisters? I’m not saying they made it up, I’m just wondering if, along with the piece of heart and blood from no.2, anyone has ever tried to extract DNA? Though it may be too late, given the year the miracle occured.
87. kiwiboi - July 14th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
“Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed” -Antoine Lavoisier
LOL!! There’s nothing like supporting your anti-religion argument by using a quote from…a religious scientist!
Idiot!
88. janus - July 14th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
regarding #1 - why do photographers always photograph the crowd and never the event itself?? Or both in a wide angle shot.
would help with the disbelief
89. SlickWilly - July 14th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Yun: My comment about leaps of faith was not geared towards you in particular. Just as one of the problematic assertions you must deal with from unrepetant and conceited atheists is that, somehow, we are more rational and logical (which I don’t believe) one of the assertions from religious folks that I see keep cropping up is that our position (atheists and atheism) takes a greater leap of faith than the belief in God. This conclusion is a logical derivitive for some folks from your and other’s assertion that the leap of faith exists (which, of course, it absolutely does). I didn’t want to single anybody out, which is why I didn’t name names, particularly since I was trying to cut-off a particular argument at the roots rather than call anyone out for anything they said on this thread. I apologize if you thought I was taking a swipe at you, that wasn’t my intention.
Also, I hardly think I’m the first respectful atheist you’ve ever met. There is no way for you to know the religious convictions (or lack thereof) of every single person that you come in contact with. Also, I detect not just a hint of derision in that particular comment, which I find to be a little offensive, though I’m sure you didn’t mean it to be. There are quite a few respectful atheists out there; most, in fact, are incredibly respectful, simply because most seriously committed atheists are intelligent people, many of them former Christians who understand the social value of religion. The ones you have met that were arrogant and disrespectful are most often bitter people, invariably young and confused, who tend to lash out as way to reinforce to themselves that they are not the confused, inexperienced, tormented people that they truly are. Some have had bad experiences when they were younger, some falsely point to a lack of divine intervention in a particularly troubling case, perhaps the death of a loved one. Only those who are angry and have reason to strike out are the ones that are the most vocal about decrying religion. The problem for the rest of us atheists is that those that shout the loudest are the ones that end up characterizing the rest of us to non-atheists. Don’t make the ignorant mistake of thinking that the vocal minority speaks for the group at large.
90. SlickWilly - July 14th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Excelsior is a perfect example of the kind of confused, tormented person I’m talking about.
91. JB - July 14th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
eraserhead & ninjajim: Have I said I believe in UFO’s?
I just said that the cases are very similar. And the provenance depend on the social enviroment.
That misunderstud you both had prove that you don’t know what’s a real skepticism. I respect people saying what they sight and I believe them. But giving it a religios or extaterrestial explanation just because it came from the sky without any prove is hilarous. Could be a secret weapon, meteorologic phenomena or even a joke of a genius or really some kind of God, I don’t know. But it has to be studied before saing “it was that”, and none of those miracles have been “proved” to be miracles.
It’s hilarious to think people can say: “Oh! there’s something I don’t understand! God exist!” or “idem + aliens are here!”
Incorruptible corpses have proved to be possible in some ambient conditions and in some embalming technics. So there ends the miracle.
I didn’t said that “those” miracles have been proved to be false. I said that before those ones thousands have proved to be fake.
You think that scientists presume that we know everything and that’s false. There’re many things we don’t know but we’ll get through it by the science couse is teh science and not your God who gave the computer you’re using (using some theories that belie some things you’re sure to be true) and it should at least prove its efficiency. Maybe someday we’ll find a new gauge field and we’ll call it God, and maybe it will be similar to Christian and Muslim god. But if it does exist, we’ll find Him through science.
Yun: I can prove God exist:
God is good, but God gave us intelligence and reasoning. We dismiss God by our intelligence couse we have no need to believe in Him and he’ve been giving us more and more proves that he is just an Invention to first explain what we couldn’t and, when we could, to mantain a hierarchy of classes: believe you’ll have a better live after this one so we can exploit you in this one…. ok, and all the evidences. But those evidences comes from our inteligence so… ¿is that God’s will? or devil’s? is God then a bad sadistic guy? aaahhh!! of course is what is called a faith test! That explains everything…
92. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
JB, I’m not being mean–really. I would like to ask you if English is your native or second language?
93. Exelcior - July 14th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Ok, apparently I’m a “confused, tormented person” now because I don’t agree with some of you. Let me explain myself. “Life after death” is the basis of every religion humanity has ever created, from the Stone Age to now. Humans cannot accept the fact that their existence will end. “The Afterlife” is part of our mentality, and has been for thousands of years. Which is why people psychologically cannot accept an “end to all things”, and resort to religion.
Basically, over the years, religion has lost ground to science. The polytheistic religions come to mind here. Early humans needed an entire zoo of dieties (Zeus, Apollo, etc.) as to provide an explanation for everything they did not understand (rain, snow). When science showed that rain/snow were normal, natural phenomenon, the polytheistic religions virtually dissapeared because they became completely useless. Worshipping a god of rain and thunder seemed ridiculous.
So what’s left today that we need religion to explain for us? Not much. Two things: The creation of the universe and what is after death. Every religion that has survived to this day deals exclusively with those two things. Once science debunks them (and it won’t take long, we’ve done the “impossible” before), will there be a purpose to religion? No. Worshipping an invisible man in the sky that grants you immortality after death will be as silly as sacrificing a goat to Zeus for rain.
I have no doubt that many will call me an idiot for saying this, because people still take religion very seriously. The believers of Zeus and Horus took religion very seriously as well, though.
94. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Also, why are so many focusing on the corpses as if proving or disproving that one is justification that miracles do or don’t exist?
95. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Thing is, Jesus was the real deal AND he proved there is life after death:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.....s_of_Jesus
Among the other scriptures, He showed himself to “more than 500 of the brothers” as well as others.
1 corinthians 15:3-15:9
96. JB - July 14th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
S_R: sorry, it’s my third lenguage. And I think it’s getting worse everyday ¬¬
97. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Also, God has existed from the beginning, way, way, WAY before (in fact, eternally) any FALSE religions. When the very people he created strayed from him, they were left with a void in their hearts and spirits that (to this day) needed to be satisfied. Hence, the false religions. Hence, humanism, atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, etc., as well as today’s version, the “science will explain it all to us”-types.
If you read my previous post regarding the devil, it’s obvious that he was more than happy to fill that void with anything, especially religious, that would lead men AWAY from God. And by doing so, has decieved myriad people throughout man’s history. That includes, by the way, “worshipping” science. Now, don’t get me wrong! I believe God gave us the intelligence and the curiousity to peer into his creation. Scinece can be a good thing. It’s given us medicine, doctors, astronauts and rockets, knowledge of ourselves and life itself, modern conveniences, etc. etc., etc. Science is used improperly, though, when instead of using it to understand God better, we use it to try to disprove God and to justify our sins.
98. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
JB, no problem. I know two languages and I can’t imagine learning a third!!
99. trojan_man - July 14th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Exelcior: and some humans cannot accept the fact that they don’t know what is after death so they think their opinion is correct and everyone else is “a bunch of retards and psychopaths”. Trying to enlighten people by calling them “retards and psychopaths” is about as useless as Andy Dick’s dick.
100. SlickWilly - July 14th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Exelcior: You seem like an intelligent person. Perhaps then, you could tell me the value in coming on an anonymous message board and devaluing religion and religious people the way you do. You have displayed exact the kind of remarkable arrogance and disrespect that I have previously commented on. You offer nothing constructive, no new information. I assure you, I’ve been around this site long enough to have seen - and taken part in - discussions on all the points you had to make in your second post, ad nauseam.
You are not a confused and tormented person because some people don’t agree with you. I happen to be an atheist, but that is neither here nor there. You are confused and tormented because you have a desire to come to an anonymous message board - a forum where you will face little to no consequences for your actions - so you can call religious people “retards” and “psychopaths” (intentionally hurtful terms) and insult the very foundation of their spirituality. If you were not confused, you would be secure in your convictions and, being an intelligent person, realize the futility in your actions. Why does it matter what everyone else believes? It should only matter to *you* what *you* believe. If you were certain - I mean truly certain, which can only be demonstrated in actions and not in words - you would not have done what you did. You are tormented because you obviously get some degree of satisfaction over posting such overtly hateful and hurtful terms. That leads me to either of two conclusions: you get pleasure out of making others feel bad, which would make you a sociopath; or, the more likely scenario since there is no real visceral satisfaction through anonymous p2p interaction, you have had some painful experiences with religion in the past, and feel an intense need to sublimate this strong emotional reaction you have against it in an environment where it will not result in any real consequences.
So, if neither of these things are true, please correct me. Remember that your reply to this will also speak volumes about who you are, so reply carefully. As long as you act respectfully, you will be allowed to stay around, and we will value your input and your opinion.
101. Cedestra - July 14th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
As stated before, I am a druid (so classified as pagan). I was raised Roman Catholic. How do I feel about these miracles? I think I would do myself a disservice by disecting them. Whether I think they are real, scientifically provable, or a hoax, I feel I should just let them be. They don’t effect my life; I have never seen a miracle. If I did, would that shatter my theology or strengthen it? I’m not sure; I’d have to wait for the opportunity. I let those that believe, believe, and those who don’t, don’t. I guess you would call that sitting on the fence. I shall await the time in my life when it will be proper for me to consider miracles.
102. JB - July 14th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
S_R: And who are you know that yours is not another false religion?
When Science is used to desaprove God is because the blind faith did so much evil in the past and it’s still doing it. How you can tell to a dangerous cultist that he’s following one of the false religions?
103. trojan_man - July 14th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Cedestra: well-put from our resident Druish princess (I’m just assuming).
104. JB - July 14th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
trojan_man: you’ve to admit you also don’t know what’s after death.
I really would like to explain my point of view about it (don’t have enougth time, could be boring and requires at least some basics over modern phisics). Is not a scientific hipotesis but is a metaphisic reasoning I made through my scientific knowledgment. So it had to be at least in the same level that religion life-after-dead.
What exelcior said is that Christian afterlife is so… nice. It’s a good railing to grab to. An easy explanation to calm yourself down about what comes next.
As an atheist I don’t fear death itself, so I don’t doubt about the non excistance of christian afterlife. How many believers have so strong faith to say this?
105. trojan_man - July 14th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
JB: I have two degrees…Mathematics and Engineering…rail away about things above modern physics. I did not say that I “knew” what was after death. But I also did not call people who believe differently than me “retards and psychopaths”.
And I do not fear death. And some people who believe the Christian version will not think it very nice (y’know…hell and all). And as far as strong faith…everyone who believes in something has strong faith - even atheism.
106. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
JB, because God has shown himself to be real not only by his creation, but to myriad believers in the past. His word, just on the way it describes man alone, and the (temporary) struggle between good and eveil is dead on! The multitude of prophecies that were dead-on and written long before they were fulfilled, and to the letter, proves to me they were divinely inspired (unlike the vague and many time incorrect, “prophecies” of others).
Finally, because the existence of Jesus cannot be denied. Many may call him just a “wise man,” a “prophet,” or a “good man” and a “good teacher.” If he was any of these rather than God, then he was either a liar, deluded, or insane. So, how can we trust anything He said as some claim to do while denying his divinity?
But if (or, more accurately, since) he was God, then we can trust all that he told us–and that means the WHOLE word of God as Jesus, himself, was the word. As I stated in another list, I’m not saying the modern Bible is without ANY errors, but as I explained, they are SO small as to be completely inconsequential.
Besides the other evidence, the empty tomb proves He was who he said. I posted earlier (and it hasn’t yet appeared as there was a link that I guess is being checked before posting what I wrote) that also, He appeared to hundreds of people AFTER his death and before his ascension.
There are a multitude of records of all the miracles Jesus performed. Great masses of people saw Him and immediately recognized what he was–God in the flesh.
If a nonbeliever would bother to REALLy research the subject, they would find tons of compelling reason to believe not only that there is a God, but that he came in the form of a man and died on a cross to pay the price for our sin. Even the unbelievers that were present at his crucifixion had to admit, “”Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)
But it doesn’t end there. On the third day He arose and forty days later ascended to heaven in full view of many people. And thus, it was finished. The victory over death had been won. And now, the promise of eternal residence in God’s kingdom is made available to anyone who chooses to believe Jesus and who he is/was.
Finally, and this would make no difference if not for all the other proofs, He has reveasled himself to me through the Holy Spirit. He has made himself VERY real to me by his workings in my life. But, as I said, that would mean nothing if not for the other things for the devil makes false religions very real to those who follow them. But you asked me “how do (I) know?”
107. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
JB, also, you are correct–MANY HORRIBLE THINGS HAVE BE DONE IN GOD’S NAME!! I have done some myself. But that is not what God wants or asks of us. Jesus came to show us a new, different, better way. What humans do cannot be blamed on God as they are doing the exact opposite of what he wants. Please, DO NOT judge God by the actions of his fallible and sometimes even purely evil followers or those who claim to be followers.
The Bible warns us about such people saying not only are they going to gain entrance into heaven, but they (EVEN!) prevent others from doing so (by their actions and false teachings)! God tells us:
Matthew 7:
21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
108. goof_ball - July 14th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
interesting list!
109. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
S_R
Thing is, Jesus was the real deal AND he proved there is life after death:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R…..s_of_Jesus
Among the other scriptures, He showed himself to “more than 500 of the brothers” as well as others.
1 corinthians 15:3-15:9
110. Matt - July 14th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
What a load crap. Worst list ever. Not even well researched. You’ve just sourced everything off Wikipedia.
111. Ashleigh - July 14th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
That seems a tad harsh, Matt. The list isn’t THAT bad.
112. S_R - July 14th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Cyn, you had no right to post my comment with your remarks added to it.
113. Cyn - July 14th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
ROFLMAO! @ S_R. i have no right? you sent a copy to Jamie? what do you think this is…grade school?
i included the comment to illustrate my point silly. it posted in its time stamped place in the flow of comments. so how would that be any different than anyone else referencing someone else’s comm