Classical music is one of the great loves of my life and I have spent many years studying it. Someone on another list suggested that I do an influential classical composers list and, while I was not sure I could pull it off, I think I have. One thing is for sure – this list is going to upset some people – but I believe my selections are all correct. I have not been able to order these composers by importance, as there is no objective way to do this, instead I have ordered them chronologically.
15. Saint Hildegard Von Bingen 1098 – 1179
Not only was Hildegard Von Bingen considered the mother of opera (because of her Ordo Virtutum) and music, she was a polymath (a person with advanced and broad knowledge – this is like a genius, except a genius usually has mastery of one, not many, subjects). Hildegard was a German abbess, artist, author, counselor, linguist, naturalist, scientist, philosopher, physician, herbalist, poet, activist, visionary and composer. She wrote theological, botanical and medicinal texts, as well as letters, liturgical songs, poems and the first surviving morality play, while supervising brilliant miniature illuminations. Her music, of course, influenced the vocal music of the renascence and opera from that period forward. If I were forced to pick a single greatest influence on classical music, I would be very tempted to choose this genius Nun. Though not officially canonized, she is generally regarded to be a saint, and her feast day is on September 17.
14. Guillaume Dufay 1397 – 1474
Dufay was a Franco-Flemish composer and music theorist of the early Renaissance. As the central figure in the Burgundian School, he was the most famous and influential composer in Europe, in the mid-15th century. He was one of the last composers to make use of medieval techniques such as isorhythm, but one of the first to use the harmonies, phrasing and expressive melodies characteristic of the early Renaissance. During the 15th century, Dufay was universally regarded as the greatest composer of the time, and that belief has largely persisted to the present day.
13. Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina 1525? – 1594
The above piece, the Kyrie from Palestrina’s Missa Papae Marcelli, is believed to have been composed for the Council of Trent (which opened today – December 13 – in 1545) in order to convince the Cardinals, Bishops and Pope not to reject polyphonic music for use in Church. The council not only did not reject it, it embraced it so fully that, alongside Gregorian Chant, sacred polyphony is the official music for the Roman Catholic Mass. This was further confirmed again, as recently as the 1960s in the Second Vatican Council. Palestrina is regarded as the master of Polyphony, and his music was regarded as the greatest written, even for many years after his death. His music was never surpassed in this style.
12. Antonio Vivaldi 1678 – 1741
Unfortunately, the only good quality clip I could find is Nigel Kennedy, whom I dislike immensely. In this clip Kennedy plays a part of The Four Seasons, a series of four violin concertos, Vivaldi’s best known work and a highly popular Baroque music piece. Vivaldi is considered one of the composers who brought Baroque music (with its typical contrast among heavy sonorities) to evolve into a classical style. Johann Sebastian Bach was deeply influenced by Vivaldi’s concertos and arias
11. George Frideric Handel 1685 – 1759
I have selected Handel’s Largo (Ombra mai fu) from his opera Xerxes, rather than the Messiah, because I think fewer people will have heard it and it is an incredibly beautiful aria. Drawing on the techniques of the great composers of the Italian Baroque, as well as the music of Henry Purcell, Handel deeply influenced, in his turn, many composers who came after him, including Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven, and his works helped lead the transition from the Baroque to the Classical era.
10. Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach 1714 – 1788
Through the latter half of the 18th century, the reputation of CPE Bach was outstanding. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart said of him, “He is the father, we are the children.” The best part of Joseph Haydn’s training was derived from a study of his work. Ludwig van Beethoven expressed, for his genius, the most cordial admiration and regard. This position he owes mainly to his keyboard sonatas, which mark an important epoch in the history of musical form.
9. Franz Joseph Haydn 1732 – 1809
Haydn is often referred to as the father of the symphony, and the father of the string quartet. In the clip above, we hear the 4th movement of the Kaiser String Quarter (Op.76 No.3). A life-long resident of Austria, Haydn spent most of his career as a court musician for the wealthy Esterházy family on their remote estate. Isolated from other composers and trends in music until the later part of his long life, he was, as he put it, “forced to become original”.
8. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart 1756 – 1791
Mozart’s output of over 600 compositions includes works widely acknowledged as pinnacles of symphonic, concertante, chamber, piano, operatic and choral music. Mozart is among the most enduringly popular of classical composers, and many of his works are part of the standard concert repertoire. In this clip, we see Sumi Jo singing the Queen of the Night aria.
7. Giuseppe Verdi 1813 – 1901
I was fortunate enough to attend the performance of Aida at the Verona Arena for my birthday in 2005, however I have chosen to show you the Dies Irae from the Requiem. Verdi was one of the most influential composers of Italian opera in the 19th century, and went well beyond the work of Bellini, Donizetti and Rossini. His works are frequently performed in opera houses throughout the world and transcend the boundaries of the genre. Although his work was sometimes criticized as catering to the tastes of the common folk, using a generally diatonic rather than a chromatic musical idiom, and having a tendency towards melodrama, Verdi’s masterworks dominate the standard repertoire a century and a half after their composition.
6. Richard Wagner 1813 – 1883
Wagner’s compositions, particularly those of his later period, are notable for their contrapuntal texture, rich chromaticism, harmonies and orchestration, and elaborate use of leitmotifs: musical themes associated with specific characters, locales or plot elements. Wagner pioneered advances in musical language, such as extreme chromaticism and quickly shifting tonal centres, which greatly influenced the development of European classical music.
5. Gustav Mahler 1860 – 1911
While he was a late Romantic period composer (one of the most important, in fact), Mahler had an enormous influence on the burgeoning Second Viennese School of Schoenberg, Berg and Webern. In addition, he had a later influence on Britten, Copland and Shostakovich. He also influenced other great composers in a different kind of way – by their desire to reject him. Stravinsky called him “malheur” instead of “Mahler” – both words sound similar but “malheur” means “misfortune”, and Vaughan-Williams called him a “tolerable imitation of a composer”. Mahler also exerted his influence over Richard Strauss, Kurt Weill, Leonard Bernstein and Alfred Schnittke.
4. Igor Stravinsky 1882 – 1971
When it was first performed, the Rite of Spring caused a riot in the opera house. The clip above is the first 10 minutes and, while I can not verify for sure, it may be Stravinsky conducting, himself (Stravinsky always conducted this piece slower than others and this recording is definitely slow in parts). I strongly advise you to watch the whole clip, as it is a faithful reproduction of the original performance of the ballet using Najinsky’s choreography. Remember – before this ballet, people were used to tutus and “pretty” music like Swan Lake.
3. Edgard Varese 1883 – 1965
Varese’s use of new instruments and electronic resources led to his being known as the “Father of Electronic Music”, while Henry Miller described him as “The stratospheric Colossus of Sound”. Composers who have claimed, or can be demonstrated to have been influenced by Varese include Harrison Birtwistle, Pierre Boulez, John Cage, Morton Feldman, Roberto Gerhard, Luigi Nono, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Iannis Xenakis, Frank Zappa and William Grant Still. The piece I have chosen to show you above is called “Ionisation” and it is the piece of music that inspired Frank Zappa to write.
2. Nadia Boulanger 1887 – 1979
Unfortunately I could not find a clip of her music, so I have selected one by her sister Lili – it is “Clairières dans le ciel”: Nr. 7 “Nous nous aimerons tant”. Lili was Nadia’s first student, and she became the first woman to win the Prix de Rome, in 1913. Nadia Boulanger can easily be said to be the most influential composer of the 20th century – not directly through her own writing, but through her influence as a teacher. To name just a few: George Antheil, Burt Bacharach, Leonard Bernstein, Elliott Carter, Aaron Copland, John Eliot Gardiner, George Gershwin, Philip Glass, Gian Carlo Menotti, Virgil Thomson,
1. John Cage 1912 – 1992
The above piece is Sonata V for prepared piano. A prepared piano is when certain objects such as erasers and screws are inserted in to the strings of the piano making it a more percussive sounding instrument. As you can see in the clip, a much richer variety of sounds becomes possible with this technique. Cage is probably most famous for his piece 4’33″ in which the instrumentalists perform in total silence – the point being to illustrate that there is beautiful music in the sounds of life around us.
Bonus: Henry Purcell 1659 – 1695
I have included Purcell as a bonus because his influence is not just in the classical field – in which he influenced composers such as Benjamin Britten, but also in the rock genre. Wikipedia has this to say: “Purcell is among the Baroque composers who has had a direct influence on modern rock and roll; according to Pete Townshend of The Who, Purcell was among his influences, particularly evident in the opening bars of The Who’s ‘Pinball Wizard.’ The title song from the soundtrack of the film A Clockwork Orange is from Purcell’s ‘Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary’.” In the clip above we hear Dido’s Lament from Purcell’s opera Dido and Aeneas, sung by Jessye Norman in what I would consider one of the finest renditions ever.
Afterword
By now you have realized that I did not include J S Bach. There is a good reason for this. In his own lifetime he had great fame as an organist, and while his mastery of the baroque style enabled him to bring the entire period to its ultimate maturity, in his own time he was not considered a great composer – in fact he was considered old fashioned in his style. He is certainly one of the greatest composers in history, but he did not exert a great deal of influence on the generations to follow him.
I have no idea who wrote this list but it’s ridiculous, no way my man. Where is Bartók, Chopin, Debussy, J.S Bach ??…. (even with your explanation as why he was not included, which I find not true at all).
And for Cage and Varese, you gotta be kidding !!
GREAT list…. I love Edgard Varese… great to see him on this list.
Not that he was all that influential, but do you know Erik Satie’s work? Wonderful compositions.
Hmm…I think the early music selections are interesting and certainly of merit. The inclusion of Handel is a bit suspect as the man, though prolific in his own right, did not do anything to vastly change and influence those that followed him. He exceeded in composing within the musical forms available to him and certainly managed to create his own personal style, but he was not necessarily emulated by those that followed.
I still think that J.S.Bach should be listed over his son, although C.P.E. certainly did exert much influence over many other composers, as stated.
You have left out two of the most important composers.
Clearly, Beethoven belongs on this list without question. Jfrater, I'm sorry, but you are wrong. There is not one SINGLE musician who was not influenced after the advent of Beethoven by his works. Beethoven is a man who expanded harmony, form, style, and musical invention beyond all it's boundaries. His last string quartets are still 'incomprehensible' to many because of how complex the compositional structures are and how difficult it is to even attempt to *****yze the works! The Eroica symphony alone changed the face of music and every single composer during and after Beethoven was astonished and inspired by his genius. Even his teachers, who included Salieri and Hadyn, later admitted to their astonishment at his greatness. He is far more than 'unique' but the single most influential composer of all time – in so much that Arnold Shoenberg even deferred himself to the greatness of Beethoven.
Verdi truly belongs on this list as his complete ouvre is a perfect example of how his changes in compositional style over the years directly influenced all other composers around him. However, you have completely forgotten the most influential Italian composer of the Ottocento which was Rossini. Rossini was the first composer to give prominence to the orchestra in operatic music and his advances in orchestration and the vocal art leave him as one of the most formidable composers of all time – a master who, had he not halted his work after Guillaume Tell, would have completely eclipsed the rise of people like Donizetti, Meyerbeer, and Verdi, who directly took their influences from him, amongst hundreds of other composers – and not only Italians!
Bellini is also someone who revolutionized vocal style in opera. Though his compositional techniques were often criticized for being 'simple,' and certainly died at a very young age, his personal style left a lasting impression on theatrical and vocal art that we still feel today in the works of Samuel Barber, for example. He was also the single most influential composer for Richard Wagner.
Although I am not a fan of Shoenberg, but I certainly believe he deserves a place on this list whereas John Cage, IMO, is a complete hack who should not hold a position alongside these other geniuses. I would also argue that Debussy deserves a position as his advances with impressionism and image painting served as a huge influence for virtually all composers to follow – Strauss, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Ravel, Gershwin, etc.
I would also like to suggest different clips: Perhaps a Cecilia Bartoli video to represent Vivaldi. The 4 Seasons are a masterwork, but over-done. I also vote for Damrau or Gruberova instead of Jo.
Ferg, as much as I adore Shostakovich, and I do, he was unfortunately not very influential on other composers. He is highly revered by all, and perhaps too underrated during his lifetime, but his music still struggles to hold popularity (which I don't agree with!), but his personal style has not done much to advance the direction of music following his career.
Concerning the term "Classical" music, to those who evidently are (or have) 'studying' music in school. It is described fairly well above…though we consider the years of 1720-1800 as the "Classical" Period
I dunno. I think Shostakovich has perpetuated the symphony as the most elite musical form. But he doesn’t get into the top 15…
Randall: of course I know Satie – I studied post graduate music at the Royal College of Music in London! I like his music a lot – some of his greatest stuff was written with the intention of being “unmusical” – chord progressions that don’t relate to each other in order to be so disjointed as to not allow the mind to hear a tune emergine. One in particular was written entirely in semibreves and is just plods and plods – starting no where, going nowhere. The Gnossiennes are lovely too. There were so many composers I wanted to add but couldn’t because of their lack of influence. I am going to just have to do an indulgent “Top 100 JFrater’s favorite composers” or something
No Beethoven?
miss destiny – Beethoven is a great composer but he was not influential – he was unique
jfrater:
“The Gnossiennes are lovely too.”
Yes, I agree.
“I studied post graduate music at the Royal College of Music in London!”
Well well well… and yet you let that goddamned godawful “15 Most Influential Musicians” list out on this site?
Ha ha… but seriously, that’s cool. I had a good friend a few years back who had a master’s in music theory, I think it was… he was a composer… his wife was a poet. You’d think they’d be very artsy people, but they both looked like lawyers.
I *do* like DeBussy as well… strange, all these French composers…
There was a Renaissance composer… I can’t recall his name… it started with an “M.” I heard some of his music a few years back and liked it…. I wish I could remember his name. I *think* he was a Florentine, but I’m not sure.
No Puccini?
To me, Beethoven is very infuential. He was the first “Metal God”.
is your dislike of nigel kennedy due to his apparent lack of finesse? he does seem to bang his instrument some (lol), or because he looks like a nimrod?
Although i appreciate the fact that you credit your loyal readership with a modicum of intelligence, a glossary for topic-specific words or terms would be
helpful. chromaticism? polyphany?,,,in the interest of educating the masses of course.
Randall – surely you mean Monteverdi – his coronation of popea (sp?) is great. I love Debussy too – his cathedrale engloutie is stunning.
Chuchu – Puccini is great but this list is about composers who influenced music – not us
I would think about changing the name on this one… In my music studies, the term ‘classical’ refers to the period 1720-1800, so I was a bit surprised to find Cage as #1
Nice list, though.
Jake – that is the classical period – I do not know a single person that would say “classical music” refers only to that period. Cage is a 20th century classical composer. If you record all styes do you say “I work in classical music” or “I work in renaissance, baroque, classical, romantic, 20th century, and contemporary music”? What would you call this list?
Mom424: I dislike him because I feel that his public persona is false – it is designed as a marketing gimmick. As for your other question:
Polyphony: literally “many sounds” – it is when you have lots of voices (or lines of music) that sing together but in lines rather than chords – if you listen to the Palestrina above you will see that you have four separate melodies interwoven with each other. The difference is when everyone sings each note together – giving you “chords” if you are familiar with modern guitar music.
Chromaticism – wow – that is a tough one to define. The best way to think of it is that Mozart wrote with all the pretty sequences of notes and chromaticism is when you insert all the ugly notes between – the result is a much more confusing sound if you are used to Mozart. It can sound out of tune as well. The good news is that if you listen to it a lot you get used to it and it makes for very rich music
I hope that makes it clearer – these are not easy terms to describe without being in the same room with you to demonstrate the differences.
WTF dude! Why are you randomly posting classical music all of a sudden?! That’s gay dude! Honestly! Horrible list!!
L-U-V. Don’t necessarily agree with all the choices, but props on the classical music lists (and yes, classical is technically death-of-bach to death-of-beethoven but until someone thinks of a better term we have to stick with it [art music? *****y. serious music? even more *****y]).
No Chopin? You are my sworn enemy.
Wagner is on the list…i am pleased
For a superb performance of the Queen of the Night Aria, I might suggest Diana Damrau. Not only does she have an incredible voice, but she’s a German native which gives some authenticity to the aria, and to top it all off, her acting is glorious and she pulls it all together seamlessly and effortlessly. By far, one of the best performers ever.
not to sound like a real prick, but most of those composers aren’t actually considered classical.
im currently studying music at uni and composers of the time frame like monteverdi are considered baroque and others like stravinsky and cage would be early 20th century.
Where the ***** is Shostakovich? I doubt any of these composers (except maybe Wagner) would have the balls to stick it to Stalin. Shostakovich is very influential.
MORE?! Excellent! ^.^
glad wagner made it to the list. he’s the man!
I was always excited when the director handed us a Stravinsky piece. One of my favourite composers to play, by far. Handel bores me to death when I have to play his pieces, but that’s only because he didn’t appreciate the double bass properly
. Great list.
Right.
So can somebody summarise Idrenos post in one sentence for me please?
http://www.wordsmithsjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/Frank%20Wilson%20surrounded%20by%20books%20for%20Journal.jpg
fgds, in one sentence he’s saying they should have included Beethoven and Verdi.
Now can somebody expand fgds’s post for me?
Thank you kindly.
Listening to choice electroacoustic riffs impairs my attention span.
R.I.P. Stockhausen
Idreno you said it all. Beethoven and Shostakovich belong on this list, and the fact that John Cage is even on it is despicable. For contemporary music it would be more fitting to have the likes of Ligeti and Xenakis and Elliot Carter. Messiaen should be on as well for his contribution and without him there would be no Xenakis. Bartok also, definately needs to be here.
wow, this is an awesome list. so glad to see some composers who don’t seem to be very well known outside of the music world like hildegard von bingen, i discovered her a few years ago, and she seems to have lead such an interesting life and full life compared to other women at her time. i don’t know how true this is, but i was told she was given to the convent on her 10th birthday by her parents. pretty awful birthday present.
i’d love to see more lists like this. especially with the clips of music
cheese: did you read the comments? I did my postgrad studies in Music at the Royal College of Music – I am certainly aware of what the Classical period of music is
The title for this list is a reference to the “classical” (ie, not pop) music genre which encompasses all periods of this style of music. As I said to Jake, what would you call the list?
Ferg: from Wikipedia: “Shostakovich’s musical influence on later composers outside the former Soviet Union has been relatively slight” and of the ones he influenced in the SU – none are well known. This is a list of composers that influenced music to come.
Idreno: Thank you very much for being the first person to actually give reasons for your opposition to my choices! Schoenberg was very close to making the list – I added him – I removed him – I added him – you get the picture
I opted to leave him off as he and the other parts of the second Viennese school were all so strongly influenced by Mahler who I did include. Beethoven was a great composer but I still don’t see a place for him on this list of 15. I am still reeling from your horrible comment about one of my favorite composers – John Cage! He was most definitely not a hack – in fact, he wrote a fair amount of “normal” music as well – all of which is incredibly beautiful.
So now – I said to you all – if you are going to say I left people off – please tell me why they should be on the list and tell me who you would remove from the list to include your own choices.
Jacooob: who did Shostakovich influence and who should be removed from the list of 15 above to allow him a place on it?
When I saw this list, I had a feeling John Cage is on it and was shocked to see he was first. I personally am not a fan. His radical approaches to music although may be beautiful, I cannot bring myself to recognize them as music of the same standards as the other musicians here.
At least put Pope Gregory in. I also agree with at least the mention of Bartok, Beethoven, Satie and maybe even Tchaikovsky.
AdoraBelle: Thanks
And yes Hildegard was a great woman – one of the great female geniuses. Her music is very beautiful.
Great list. I especially appreciate the exception of J.S. Bach for exactly the reason stated.
The list just needs to be one longer in order to truly bring us to the modern era. John Cage is certainly influential, more so than anybody in the 1950s super-serialist/aleatoric era, and should be included. However, in the 1960s there was a severe philosophical swing away from that school of musical thought. The one composer that needs to be added would be Terry Riley for his minimalist work “In C,” which was the manifesto for the Minimalist school. Riley, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Lamonte Young, and more recently post minimalists like John Adams put music on a different path which continues to this day. About 60-70% of new music I hear from young and established composers nowadays carries minimalist influence, while virtually none hearkens back to Cage or Babbitt or the other 50s composers. For that reason, Terry Riley should be on the list.
That being said, I appreciate the focus on serious classical music on this site. It is most appreciated.
Any music list on this site is never long enough it seems.
Jacki: the list is not in order of importance – it is in order of date. I did consider Pope Gregory and Bartok. I don’t think Tchaikovsky should be on this list.
Cheese: you ought to give your professor a slap for teaching you that Cage and Stravinsky are both early 20th century composers – Cage died only 15 years ago – he most important work was mid century.
sweenbean: I seriously considered the minimalists but didn’t include any because of the influence Boulanger (who is included) had on Glass. Having said that, Riley is probably the first suggestion from the comments that I would consider someone I probably should have included.
dangorironhide: it would appear so
The same is true of many of the movie lists too.
I’ve got a music list I’m gonna do at the weekend which I would love people to add to! haha
Jacki: I found a youtube clip of a more “mainstream” sounding piece by Cage – it is very beautiful and is called “In a Landscape” – it is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsz-Mr59P6c
dangorironhide: I can’t wait
If you get it in before I leave on Wednesday people will still be commenting when I touch down in NZ 
I’m going to try & get it done at the weekend, when I can relax and think about it properly.
I think judging by the amount of comments I’ve posted I should be sending in more lists to compensate, so I’ve got 3 or 4 more planned for over my christmas break.
dangorironhide: that is great – the more the merrier! I am amazed that I find time for lists considering all of the time I spend commenting as well
jfrater….
thank you very much, i understand your definitions and even think i get the purpose of chromaticism, used for contrast and depth? geez even the beatles
used it.
and nigel kennedy is the Larry the Cable guy of classical music….
jfrater:
MONTEVERDI! Thank you. I am getting old. Forgetting much.
Jfrater, I’d like to know why you think that Beethoven and Rossini don’t belong on the list as two of the most influential composers of all time? In what way did Beethoven NOT influence every composer to follow? And Rossini, as I said, changed and defined the face of music theatre not only having converged 18th Italian and German opera (Mozart), but also presiding as the true father of French Grand Opera (Meyerbeer and Boieldieu’s inspiration). Also, Gluck would be a likely candidate for this list.
But I’m sorry, Beethoven is still the #1 most influential composer of all time. It is virtually inarguable.
I wasn’t going to weigh in on this but I would consider this list different from the ’15 Greatest Composers of All Time’… that list would have Beethoven in one of the top 4 spots but in terms of actual influence… I’m on the fence. He did bridge into what is known as the romantic era and did more for the symphonic form than anyone had ever done, but I don’t know exactly how influential I’d consider him in the same list as someone such as Stravinsky.
One I would drop from the list however is Verdi… he’d be one of the top 3 influential operatic composers with me (along with Wagner and Mozart) but I wouldn’t say he greatly influenced the course of western music- he was writing at, more or less, the same time as Wagner yet looked whose theories caught on into the twentieth century.
Ian – well thought out comment – thanks – and thanks for defending my position on Beethoven
I could accept that Verdi was less influential than some of the others here – if I had to replace one on this list it would be Verdi.
what no led zepplien comments?
jbjr: it would appear that Beethoven is the Led Zeppelin of this list
I have a question for everyone: would you consider Ives to be influential? He wrote in many of the modern styles and in many cases he did so before others.
Perhaps influential to Bernstein and Copeland, but probably not in the top 100. If included in a concert, my mother would say he’s “a layer of turnip greens between two layers of ice cream.” I think nerd drone music has improve a lot since then.
jfrater: I would assume thats because after Mozart he is the only composer most laypeople people have heard of, and so they want some comfort in seeing someone the recognise on this list
dangorironhide: alas you are right I think. At least now they will know a few new names
Unfortunately, I still disagree. As one who has read complete biographies and letters concerning virtually every major and not-so-major composer from Mozart forward, and has studied musicology as well as performed professionally (with several instruments and also on stage and am still performing and studying) the vast output of these great composers…one cannot argue how apparent Beethoven’s influences in form, harmony, development, orchestration, technique (piano, violin, orchestral, for example) and style on ALL those who succeeded him.
Schubert, who, while was very creative and made many of his own contributions, modelled his entire career after Beethoven. So did Weber in many respects along with Brahms, Mendelssohn, and the Schumann’s. Grieg was most influenced by Beethoven’s piano music as was Liszt, a one-time student of Beethoven, and Chopin. Gounod was mostly influenced by Mozart – Don Giovanni, in particular – but certainly pulled much of his harmonic language and orchestral effects from late Beethoven, as did Saint-Saens and Massenet. Wagner and the Romantic German school (Mahler, Strauss and Marx) all had harmonic languages traced back to Beethoven. Wagner could never have made his advances in harmony and orchestral color had Beethoven not already accomplished so much. Beethoven’s influence on the Italian schools of composition are most evident when traced through the music of Rossini and those his music inspired which carries us through Verdi, Puccini and Respighi.
I am not saying that Beethoven deserves to be on this list just because of his popularity. One of the things I despise in music is that “laypeople” – as you call them – are only familiar with certain names and certain pieces (see: Classical 1-Hit Wonders List) and therefore complete ignorant to the wealth of other great compositions and styles. Beethoven holds his place as being one of the few classical composers who is known by name in virtually all Western and Eastern cultures because his greatness is unavoidable.
And Ian’s comment only further supports my cause for his inclusion on this list. I have yet to see anyone give an adequate response how Beethoven was not ‘influential.’ I’ve provided I think more than enough examples on my part.
Just to point out to others…the term “classical” was used very generally here, as these composers were Baroque, Classical, and Romantic.
And I agree, Beethoven is wrongly left out. All 9 of his symphonies are included in canon of standard music.
Megan: yes – as I said in an earlier post – if it was about classical period composers I would have said that in the title – but this was about classical music as opposed to pop music! Also – it is not a list of prolific or popular composers – it is about composers with a great influence on other composers to follow. If it were about prolific composers, Bach would be here. Beethoven shouldn’t because he did not influence the romantic period composers – he was part of them (in his last days).
Remember – Puccini is one of the most popular opera composers in the average repertoire these days – but he is not influential – he is just popular. The same is true of Tchaikovsky’s ballets – seen all the time but he did not influence other composers.
Beethoven should have been on this list. He is practically the grand-daddy of all of 19th century music. This is the guy that took the musical forms perfected by Haydn (the Sonata, the Quartet, the Symphony) and practically re-invented them.
So this list is simply incomplete without Beethoven. It’s like having a list of “the most influential scientists” and leaving Einstein out.
The only question left is: Who are we going to throw out of the list, to make room for Beethoven?
I leave this call to you. But I will make a possible suggestion: You might want to throw away Mozart. He was a great composer. He was a genius. But… he wasn’t that influential. Mozart didn’t have almost any effect on the musical frontiers of his time.
Another possiblity is to simply extend the list to 20 items. Then you’ll have room for Beethoven, and 4 other composers of your choosing. And if you do that, make sure to include one of the impressionist French composers (Debussy, perhaps?)
Fantastic comments. Indeed it's Beethoven that changed classical music, a true revolutionary and also very diverse, the one that changed music indeed and put it upside down. Music was never the same since Beethoven,many other composers were influenced by Him. When listening to Beethoven you also hear Debussy, Tchaikovsky, Brahms etc. etc. He should be on top!
Jfrater, you still have not shown how Beethoven was NOT influential on other Romantic composers – aside from the fact that his creation of the ‘Romantic’ style of music is already cause to prove my case. I have cited plenty of examples of his influence and yet you still insist that he was not influential.
Of course Puccini was not very ‘influential’ – nor was Tchaikovsky (with exception to other Russian composers like Stravinsky who always pledged his allegiance to Tchaikovsky) and Ives, though brilliant, was not influential on anyone except those who perform his music.
One could also take quite a bit of issue in including von Bingen on this list. I feel that you’ve included her just because she was unique for being such a prolific individual, but her music affected primarily only her contemporaries and not many of her successors.
I still want to know what proof you have and what valid reasons you can provide that Beethoven was not influential. You have yet to provide anything of substance.
Idreno – you can’t prove a negative, so the onus is on you to prove that he was.
Jfrater, you are right. One cannot prove a negative. You were, however, given plenty of reasons for the inclusion of Beethoven on the list. You’ve been given the positive proof you asked for.
If you find these reasons unconvincing, it’s only fair that you’ll explain why.
draggone: the mark of the Romantic period was chromaticism – Beethoven was beginning to experiment in this area in his late period, but so were other composers. Draggone: can you name some composers that are clearly influenced by Beethoven?
Idreno: Hidelgard Von Bingen virtually invented opera – her musical form is still being used today – you can hardly say that is not influential. Her influence in her own time had a huge impact on Ecclesiastical music from which eventually stemmed masters like Dufay and Palestrina.
Idreno – I do appreciate your corrections and comments. Can you name 5 well known composers that were clearly influenced by Beethoven? If you do (cite examples of their work that show the influence), I will add him as a bonus item to the list
This is idiotic. Where does one begin?
The entire history of the string quartet has been one long footnote to Beethoven. Mendelssohn, Schubert, Schumann, and Brahms—basically, you know, arguably the four most important Romantic composers—spent much of their career coming to grips with Beethoven’s achievement, and in particular the string quartet. Schumann’s 1st string quartet and Mendelssohn’s second quartet quote from Beethoven’s sublime Op. 132 string quartet. (Ever hear of it?) The great c# minor quartet Op. 131 is alluded to in Shostakovich’s 8th string quartet, perhaps the most famous of 20th c. quartets.
Moving on to works in other genres, Brahms’s 1st symphony and Dvorak’s 9th symphony quote almost directly from Beethoven’s 9th. The use of cyclical composition in Mendelssohn, Schumann, and other romantics builds on Beethoven’s use of it in such works as the Op. 101 piano quartet. Liszt’s piano sonata is very much indebted to Beethoven’s final sonata, Op. 111.
I am not even trying very hard—these are just examples that leap to mind.
Op. 101 piano *sonata*
jfrater, I’m rather shocked by your behavoir concerning this. You always seem to be a well-researched and educated individual and would have thought that when someone with more knowledge on a given subject offered up that information that you would at least be receptive to it. You still have not explained to me how you can ignore and deny the many examples I have given you regarding Beethoven as an influential composer.
Considering that I have spent my entire life as a professional musician and have devoted countless years to musicological study…some might even say ‘expert’…and yet you still seem unmoved.
Madam von Bingen did NOT invent opera. She was an extremely prolific individual who certainly was far ahead of her own time in many ways, but G. Peri is credited for having invented opera – and any musicologist or text book will tell you that.
I studied music history with some of the top musicologists in the world – people who are the authors of many entries in the Groves Dictionary of Music, to cite one example. My main professor of music history, who I worked very closely with, not only was the president of the American Musicological Society for many years, but is the world’s leading authority on medieval music. As in, #1. I studied von Bingen under him, and her ‘influences’ on the future of music was not a major concern. She was influential to those of her own time, but not so much to those that followed.
Furthermore, whoever told you that “chromaticism” was the “mark of Romanticism” is not a very well-informed individual. J.S.Bach had already done more with chromaticism than any other composer up to that time. In fact, J.S.Bach is the first composer that we know of who used all 12 notes of the chromatic scale in one musical phrase where the arrangement of notes did not follow a chromatic scale. This piece was one of Gershwin’s inspirations for one of the musical figures in Rhapsody in Blue.
Furthermore, you constantly refer only to Beethoven’s late works as being “experimental” regarding Romanticism. I think it would be wise to familiarize yourself with many of his other works. Beethoven, even in the earliest piano pieces, already began to push the limits of harmony. Furthermore, I’d like you to name what other composers at that time that were ‘experimenting’ with ‘chromaticism?’
We have examples of Mozart and Haydn pushing chromaticism to new limits and incorporating dissonant harmonies for expressive purposes.
The true mark of Romanticism in music is not chromaticism, but the expansion of musical form and the orchestra. Beethoven did more than anyone else in those fields in his lifetime and served as the model for all others to follow. The man was also deaf most of his life, which means that, regarding harmony, all of his harmonies were CREATED, not heard and replicated, and in most cases, were the first examples of their kind. Beethoven was also the first composer to break the barriers of Sonata form. This is where the true birth of Romanticism began. Beethoven not only founded Romanticism, but he also began to establish the models and provided future composers with the permission to further transport the Romantic movement – a movement which lasted much longer than the Classical period. But the FACT still remains that everything is traced back to Beethoven.
As I have also stated before, Verdi should not hold a place here on this list if Rossini does not. I have already cited plenty of examples why Rossini belongs here.
I am not beating a dead horse here. I think that your website often acts as a place for people to casually educate themselves in subject matters that they wouldn’t necessarily encounter in ways otherwise – and being that music is my field of expertise (of course I don’t know you and to what extent you’ve studied music, but as I don’t believe your primare field of work is performing or writing musicological dissertations, I would be inclined to presume that since it is my life’s devotion above all other things, that I would be more informed about many of these subjects than, shall we say, Wikipedia, which is always full of errors and misinformation) I feel that it is only correct that the information found on sites like this be correct and informed.
I await your response.