Top 15 Most Influential Classical Composers
- Published December 13, 2007 - 122 Comments
Classical music is one of the great loves of my life and I have spent many years studying it. Someone on another list suggested that I do an influential classical composers list and while I was not sure I could pull it off – I think I have. One thing is for sure – this list is going to upset some people – but I believe my selections are all correct. I have not been able to order these composers by importance as there is no objective way to do this, instead I have ordered them chronologically.
15. Saint Hildegard Von Bingen 1098 – 1179
Not only was Hildegard Von Bingen considered the mother of opera (because of her Ordo Virtutum) and music, she was a polymath (a person with advanced and broad knowledge – this is like a genius except a genius usually has mastery of one, not many, subjects). Hildegard was a German abbess, artist, author, counselor, linguist, naturalist, scientist, philosopher, physician, herbalist, poet, activist, visionary, and composer. She wrote theological, botanical and medicinal texts, as well as letters, liturgical songs, poems, and the first surviving morality play, while supervising brilliant miniature illuminations. Her music, of course, influenced the vocal music of the renascence and opera from that period forward. If I were forced to pick a single greatest influence on classical music – I would be very tempted to choose this genius Nun. Though not officially canonized, she is generally regarded to be a saint and her feast day is on September 17.
14. Guillaume Dufay 1397 – 1474
Dufay was a Franco-Flemish composer and music theorist of the early Renaissance. As the central figure in the Burgundian School, he was the most famous and influential composer in Europe in the mid-15th century. He was one of the last composers to make use of medieval techniques such as isorhythm, but one of the first to use the harmonies, phrasing and expressive melodies characteristic of the early Renaissance. During the 15th century Dufay was universally regarded as the greatest composer of the time, and that belief has largely persisted to the present day.
13. Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina 1525? – 1594
The above piece, the Kyrie from Palestrina’s Missa Papae Marcelli is believed to have been composed for the Council of Trent (which opened today – December 13 – in 1545) in order to convince the Cardinals, Bishops, and Pope not to reject polyphonic music for use in Church. The council not only did not reject it – it embraced it so fully that alongside Gregorian Chant, sacred polyphony is the official music for the Roman Catholic Mass. This was further confirmed again as recently as the 1960s in the Second Vatican Council. Palestrina is regarded as the master of Polyphony and his music was regarded as the greatest written even for many years after his death. His music was never surpassed in this style.
12. Antonio Vivaldi 1678 – 1741
Unfortunately the only good quality clip I could find is Nigel Kennedy who I dislike immensely. In this clip Kennedy plays a part of The Four Seasons, a series of four violin concertos – Vivaldi’s best known work and a highly popular Baroque music piece. Vivaldi is considered one of the composers who brought Baroque music (with its typical contrast among heavy sonorities) to evolve into a classical style. Johann Sebastian Bach was deeply influenced by Vivaldi’s concertos and arias
11. George Frideric Handel 1685 – 1759
I have selected Handel’s Largo (Ombra mai fu) from his opera Xerxes, rather than the Messiah because I think fewer people will have heard it and it is an incredibly beautiful aria. Drawing on the techniques of the great composers of the Italian Baroque, as well as the music of Henry Purcell, Handel deeply influenced in his turn many composers who came after him, including Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven, and his works helped lead the transition from the Baroque to the Classical era.
10. Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach 1714 – 1788
Through the latter half of the 18th century, the reputation of CPE Bach was outstanding. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart said of him, “He is the father, we are the children.” The best part of Joseph Haydn’s training was derived from a study of his work. Ludwig van Beethoven expressed for his genius the most cordial admiration and regard. This position he owes mainly to his keyboard sonatas, which mark an important epoch in the history of musical form.
9. Franz Joseph Haydn 1732 – 1809
Haydn is often referred to as the father of the symphony and the father of the string quartet. In the clip above we hear the 4th movement of the Kaiser String Quarter (Op.76 No.3). A life-long resident of Austria, Haydn spent most of his career as a court musician for the wealthy Esterházy family on their remote estate. Isolated from other composers and trends in music until the later part of his long life, he was, as he put it, “forced to become original”.
8. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart 1756 – 1791
Mozart’s output of over 600 compositions includes works widely acknowledged as pinnacles of symphonic, concertante, chamber, piano, operatic, and choral music. Mozart is among the most enduringly popular of classical composers and many of his works are part of the standard concert repertoire. In this clip we see Sumi Jo singing the Queen of the Night aria.
7. Giuseppe Verdi 1813 – 1901
I was fortunate enough to attend the performance of Aida at the Verona Arena for my birthday in 2005, however I have chosen to show you the Dies Irae from the Requiem. Verdi was one of the most influential composers of Italian opera in the 19th century and went well beyond the work of Bellini, Donizetti, and Rossini. His works are frequently performed in opera houses throughout the world and, transcending the boundaries of the genre. Although his work was sometimes criticized as catering to the tastes of the common folk, using a generally diatonic rather than a chromatic musical idiom, and having a tendency towards melodrama, Verdi’s masterworks dominate the standard repertoire a century and a half after their composition.
6. Richard Wagner 1813 – 1883
Wagner’s compositions, particularly those of his later period, are notable for their contrapuntal texture, rich chromaticism, harmonies and orchestration, and elaborate use of leitmotifs: musical themes associated with specific characters, locales, or plot elements. Wagner pioneered advances in musical language, such as extreme chromaticism and quickly shifting tonal centres, which greatly influenced the development of European classical music.
5. Gustav Mahler 1860 – 1911
While he was a late Romantic period composer (one of the most important, in fact), Mahler had an enormous influence on the burgeoning Second Viennese School of Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern. In addition, he had a later influence on Britten, Copland, and Shostakovich. He also influenced other great composers in a different kind of way – by their desire to reject him. Stravinsky called him “malheur” instead of “Mahler” – both words sound similar but “malheur” means “misfortune”, and Vaughan-Williams called him a “tolerable imitation of a composer”. Mahler also exerted his influence over Richard Strauss, Kurt Weill, Leonard Bernstein and Alfred Schnittke.
4. Igor Stravinsky 1882 – 1971
When it was first performed, the Rite of Spring caused a riot in the opera house. The clip above is the first 10 minutes and while I can not verify for sure, it may be Stravinsky conducting himself (Stravinsky always conducted this piece slower than others and this recording is definitely slow in parts). I strongly advise you to watch the whole clip, as it is a faithful reproduction of the original performance of the ballet using Najinsky’s choreography. Remember – before this ballet people were used to tutus and “pretty” music like Swan Lake.
3. Edgard Varese 1883 – 1965
Varese’s use of new instruments and electronic resources led to his being known as the “Father of Electronic Music” while Henry Miller described him as “The stratospheric Colossus of Sound”. Composers who have claimed, or can be demonstrated to have been influenced by Varese include Harrison Birtwistle, Pierre Boulez, John Cage, Morton Feldman, Roberto Gerhard, Luigi Nono, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Iannis Xenakis, Frank Zappa, and William Grant Still. The piece I have chosen to show you above is called “Ionisation” and it is the piece of music that inspired Frank Zappa to write.
2. Nadia Boulanger 1887 – 1979
Unfortunately I could not find a clip of her music, so I have selected one by her sister Lili – it is “Clairières dans le ciel”: Nr. 7 “Nous nous aimerons tant”. Lili was Nadia’s first student and she became the first woman to win the Prix de Rome in 1913. Nadia Boulanger can easily be said to be the most influential composer of the 20th century – not directly through her own writing, but through her influence as a teacher. To name just a few: George Antheil, Burt Bacharach, Leonard Bernstein, Elliott Carter, Aaron Copland, John Eliot Gardiner, George Gershwin, Philip Glass, Gian Carlo Menotti, Virgil Thomson,
1. John Cage 1912 – 1992
The above piece is Sonata V for prepared piano. A prepared piano is when certain objects such as erasers and screws are inserted in to the strings of the piano making it a more percussive sounding instrument. As you can see in the clip, a much richer variety of sounds becomes possible with this technique. Cage is probably most famous for his piece 4′33″ in which the instrumentalists perform in total silence – the point being to illustrate that there is beautiful music in the sounds of life around us.
Bonus: Henry Purcell 1659 – 1695
I have included Purcell as a bonus because his influence is not just in the classical field – in which he influenced composers such as Benjamin Britten, but also in the rock genre. Wikipedia has this to say: “Purcell is among the Baroque composers who has had a direct influence on modern rock and roll; according to Pete Townshend of The Who, Purcell was among his influences, particularly evident in the opening bars of The Who’s ‘Pinball Wizard.’ The title song from the soundtrack of the film A Clockwork Orange is from Purcell’s ‘Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary’.” In the clip above we hear Dido’s Lament from Purcell’s opera Dido and Aeneas sung by Jessye Norman in what I would consider one of the finest renditions ever.
Afterword
By now you have realized that I did not include J S Bach. There is a good reason for this. In his own lifetime he had great fame as an organist, and while his mastery of the baroque style enabled him to bring the entire period to its ultimate maturity, in his own time he was not considered a great composer – in fact he was considered old fashioned in his style. He is certainly one of the greatest composers in history, but he did not exert a great deal of influence on the generations to follow him.













December 13th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
GREAT list…. I love Edgard Varese… great to see him on this list.
Not that he was all that influential, but do you know Erik Satie’s work? Wonderful compositions.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Randall: of course I know Satie – I studied post graduate music at the Royal College of Music in London! I like his music a lot – some of his greatest stuff was written with the intention of being “unmusical” – chord progressions that don’t relate to each other in order to be so disjointed as to not allow the mind to hear a tune emergine. One in particular was written entirely in semibreves and is just plods and plods – starting no where, going nowhere. The Gnossiennes are lovely too. There were so many composers I wanted to add but couldn’t because of their lack of influence. I am going to just have to do an indulgent “Top 100 JFrater’s favorite composers” or something
December 13th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
No Beethoven?
December 13th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
miss destiny – Beethoven is a great composer but he was not influential – he was unique
December 13th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
jfrater:
“The Gnossiennes are lovely too.”
Yes, I agree.
“I studied post graduate music at the Royal College of Music in London!”
Well well well… and yet you let that goddamned godawful “15 Most Influential Musicians” list out on this site?
Ha ha… but seriously, that’s cool. I had a good friend a few years back who had a master’s in music theory, I think it was… he was a composer… his wife was a poet. You’d think they’d be very artsy people, but they both looked like lawyers.
I *do* like DeBussy as well… strange, all these French composers…
There was a Renaissance composer… I can’t recall his name… it started with an “M.” I heard some of his music a few years back and liked it…. I wish I could remember his name. I *think* he was a Florentine, but I’m not sure.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
No Puccini?
December 13th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
To me, Beethoven is very infuential. He was the first “Metal God”.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
is your dislike of nigel kennedy due to his apparent lack of finesse? he does seem to bang his instrument some (lol), or because he looks like a nimrod?
Although i appreciate the fact that you credit your loyal readership with a modicum of intelligence, a glossary for topic-specific words or terms would be
helpful. chromaticism? polyphany?,,,in the interest of educating the masses of course.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Randall – surely you mean Monteverdi – his coronation of popea (sp?) is great. I love Debussy too – his cathedrale engloutie is stunning.
Chuchu – Puccini is great but this list is about composers who influenced music – not us
December 13th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
I would think about changing the name on this one… In my music studies, the term ‘classical’ refers to the period 1720-1800, so I was a bit surprised to find Cage as #1
Nice list, though.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Jake – that is the classical period – I do not know a single person that would say “classical music” refers only to that period. Cage is a 20th century classical composer. If you record all styes do you say “I work in classical music” or “I work in renaissance, baroque, classical, romantic, 20th century, and contemporary music”? What would you call this list?
December 13th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Mom424: I dislike him because I feel that his public persona is false – it is designed as a marketing gimmick. As for your other question:
Polyphony: literally “many sounds” – it is when you have lots of voices (or lines of music) that sing together but in lines rather than chords – if you listen to the Palestrina above you will see that you have four separate melodies interwoven with each other. The difference is when everyone sings each note together – giving you “chords” if you are familiar with modern guitar music.
Chromaticism – wow – that is a tough one to define. The best way to think of it is that Mozart wrote with all the pretty sequences of notes and chromaticism is when you insert all the ugly notes between – the result is a much more confusing sound if you are used to Mozart. It can sound out of tune as well. The good news is that if you listen to it a lot you get used to it and it makes for very rich music
I hope that makes it clearer – these are not easy terms to describe without being in the same room with you to demonstrate the differences.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
WTF dude! Why are you randomly posting classical music all of a sudden?! That’s gay dude! Honestly! Horrible list!!
December 13th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
L-U-V. Don’t necessarily agree with all the choices, but props on the classical music lists (and yes, classical is technically death-of-bach to death-of-beethoven but until someone thinks of a better term we have to stick with it [art music? wanky. serious music? even more wanky]).
December 13th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
No Chopin? You are my sworn enemy.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Wagner is on the list…i am pleased
December 13th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
For a superb performance of the Queen of the Night Aria, I might suggest Diana Damrau. Not only does she have an incredible voice, but she’s a German native which gives some authenticity to the aria, and to top it all off, her acting is glorious and she pulls it all together seamlessly and effortlessly. By far, one of the best performers ever.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
not to sound like a real prick, but most of those composers aren’t actually considered classical.
im currently studying music at uni and composers of the time frame like monteverdi are considered baroque and others like stravinsky and cage would be early 20th century.
December 13th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Where the fuck is Shostakovich? I doubt any of these composers (except maybe Wagner) would have the balls to stick it to Stalin. Shostakovich is very influential.
December 13th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
MORE?! Excellent! ^.^
December 13th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
glad wagner made it to the list. he’s the man!
December 13th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
I was always excited when the director handed us a Stravinsky piece. One of my favourite composers to play, by far. Handel bores me to death when I have to play his pieces, but that’s only because he didn’t appreciate the double bass properly
. Great list.
December 13th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Hmm…I think the early music selections are interesting and certainly of merit. The inclusion of Handel is a bit suspect as the man, though prolific in his own right, did not do anything to vastly change and influence those that followed him. He exceeded in composing within the musical forms available to him and certainly managed to create his own personal style, but he was not necessarily emulated by those that followed.
I still think that J.S.Bach should be listed over his son, although C.P.E. certainly did exert much influence over many other composers, as stated.
You have left out two of the most important composers.
Clearly, Beethoven belongs on this list without question. Jfrater, I’m sorry, but you are wrong. There is not one SINGLE musician who was not influenced after the advent of Beethoven by his works. Beethoven is a man who expanded harmony, form, style, and musical invention beyond all it’s boundaries. His last string quartets are still ‘incomprehensible’ to many because of how complex the compositional structures are and how difficult it is to even attempt to analyze the works! The Eroica symphony alone changed the face of music and every single composer during and after Beethoven was astonished and inspired by his genius. Even his teachers, who included Salieri and Hadyn, later admitted to their astonishment at his greatness. He is far more than ‘unique’ but the single most influential composer of all time – in so much that Arnold Shoenberg even deferred himself to the greatness of Beethoven.
Verdi truly belongs on this list as his complete ouvre is a perfect example of how his changes in compositional style over the years directly influenced all other composers around him. However, you have completely forgotten the most influential Italian composer of the Ottocento which was Rossini. Rossini was the first composer to give prominence to the orchestra in operatic music and his advances in orchestration and the vocal art leave him as one of the most formidable composers of all time – a master who, had he not halted his work after Guillaume Tell, would have completely eclipsed the rise of people like Donizetti, Meyerbeer, and Verdi, who directly took their influences from him, amongst hundreds of other composers – and not only Italians!
Bellini is also someone who revolutionized vocal style in opera. Though his compositional techniques were often criticized for being ’simple,’ and certainly died at a very young age, his personal style left a lasting impression on theatrical and vocal art that we still feel today in the works of Samuel Barber, for example. He was also the single most influential composer for Richard Wagner.
Although I am not a fan of Shoenberg, but I certainly believe he deserves a place on this list whereas John Cage, IMO, is a complete hack who should not hold a position alongside these other geniuses. I would also argue that Debussy deserves a position as his advances with impressionism and image painting served as a huge influence for virtually all composers to follow – Strauss, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Ravel, Gershwin, etc.
I would also like to suggest different clips: Perhaps a Cecilia Bartoli video to represent Vivaldi. The 4 Seasons are a masterwork, but over-done. I also vote for Damrau or Gruberova instead of Jo.
Ferg, as much as I adore Shostakovich, and I do, he was unfortunately not very influential on other composers. He is highly revered by all, and perhaps too underrated during his lifetime, but his music still struggles to hold popularity (which I don’t agree with!), but his personal style has not done much to advance the direction of music following his career.
Concerning the term “Classical” music, to those who evidently are (or have) ’studying’ music in school. It is described fairly well above…though we consider the years of 1720-1800 as the “Classical” Period
December 13th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Right.
So can somebody summarise Idrenos post in one sentence for me please?
http://www.wordsmithsjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/Frank%20Wilson%20surrounded%20by%20books%20for%20Journal.jpg
December 13th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
fgds, in one sentence he’s saying they should have included Beethoven and Verdi.
Now can somebody expand fgds’s post for me?
December 13th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Thank you kindly.
Listening to choice electroacoustic riffs impairs my attention span.
R.I.P. Stockhausen
December 13th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Idreno you said it all. Beethoven and Shostakovich belong on this list, and the fact that John Cage is even on it is despicable. For contemporary music it would be more fitting to have the likes of Ligeti and Xenakis and Elliot Carter. Messiaen should be on as well for his contribution and without him there would be no Xenakis. Bartok also, definately needs to be here.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
wow, this is an awesome list. so glad to see some composers who don’t seem to be very well known outside of the music world like hildegard von bingen, i discovered her a few years ago, and she seems to have lead such an interesting life and full life compared to other women at her time. i don’t know how true this is, but i was told she was given to the convent on her 10th birthday by her parents. pretty awful birthday present.
i’d love to see more lists like this. especially with the clips of music
December 13th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
cheese: did you read the comments? I did my postgrad studies in Music at the Royal College of Music – I am certainly aware of what the Classical period of music is
The title for this list is a reference to the “classical” (ie, not pop) music genre which encompasses all periods of this style of music. As I said to Jake, what would you call the list?
Ferg: from Wikipedia: “Shostakovich’s musical influence on later composers outside the former Soviet Union has been relatively slight” and of the ones he influenced in the SU – none are well known. This is a list of composers that influenced music to come.
Idreno: Thank you very much for being the first person to actually give reasons for your opposition to my choices! Schoenberg was very close to making the list – I added him – I removed him – I added him – you get the picture
I opted to leave him off as he and the other parts of the second Viennese school were all so strongly influenced by Mahler who I did include. Beethoven was a great composer but I still don’t see a place for him on this list of 15. I am still reeling from your horrible comment about one of my favorite composers – John Cage! He was most definitely not a hack – in fact, he wrote a fair amount of “normal” music as well – all of which is incredibly beautiful.
So now – I said to you all – if you are going to say I left people off – please tell me why they should be on the list and tell me who you would remove from the list to include your own choices.
Jacooob: who did Shostakovich influence and who should be removed from the list of 15 above to allow him a place on it?
December 14th, 2007 at 12:00 am
When I saw this list, I had a feeling John Cage is on it and was shocked to see he was first. I personally am not a fan. His radical approaches to music although may be beautiful, I cannot bring myself to recognize them as music of the same standards as the other musicians here.
At least put Pope Gregory in. I also agree with at least the mention of Bartok, Beethoven, Satie and maybe even Tchaikovsky.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:26 am
AdoraBelle: Thanks
And yes Hildegard was a great woman – one of the great female geniuses. Her music is very beautiful.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:49 am
Great list. I especially appreciate the exception of J.S. Bach for exactly the reason stated.
The list just needs to be one longer in order to truly bring us to the modern era. John Cage is certainly influential, more so than anybody in the 1950s super-serialist/aleatoric era, and should be included. However, in the 1960s there was a severe philosophical swing away from that school of musical thought. The one composer that needs to be added would be Terry Riley for his minimalist work “In C,” which was the manifesto for the Minimalist school. Riley, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Lamonte Young, and more recently post minimalists like John Adams put music on a different path which continues to this day. About 60-70% of new music I hear from young and established composers nowadays carries minimalist influence, while virtually none hearkens back to Cage or Babbitt or the other 50s composers. For that reason, Terry Riley should be on the list.
That being said, I appreciate the focus on serious classical music on this site. It is most appreciated.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:12 am
Any music list on this site is never long enough it seems.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:33 am
Jacki: the list is not in order of importance – it is in order of date. I did consider Pope Gregory and Bartok. I don’t think Tchaikovsky should be on this list.
Cheese: you ought to give your professor a slap for teaching you that Cage and Stravinsky are both early 20th century composers – Cage died only 15 years ago – he most important work was mid century.
sweenbean: I seriously considered the minimalists but didn’t include any because of the influence Boulanger (who is included) had on Glass. Having said that, Riley is probably the first suggestion from the comments that I would consider someone I probably should have included.
dangorironhide: it would appear so
The same is true of many of the movie lists too.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:37 am
I’ve got a music list I’m gonna do at the weekend which I would love people to add to! haha
December 14th, 2007 at 1:50 am
Jacki: I found a youtube clip of a more “mainstream” sounding piece by Cage – it is very beautiful and is called “In a Landscape” – it is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsz-Mr59P6c
December 14th, 2007 at 1:52 am
dangorironhide: I can’t wait
If you get it in before I leave on Wednesday people will still be commenting when I touch down in NZ
December 14th, 2007 at 1:57 am
I’m going to try & get it done at the weekend, when I can relax and think about it properly.
I think judging by the amount of comments I’ve posted I should be sending in more lists to compensate, so I’ve got 3 or 4 more planned for over my christmas break.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:20 am
dangorironhide: that is great – the more the merrier! I am amazed that I find time for lists considering all of the time I spend commenting as well
December 14th, 2007 at 7:53 am
jfrater….
thank you very much, i understand your definitions and even think i get the purpose of chromaticism, used for contrast and depth? geez even the beatles
used it.
and nigel kennedy is the Larry the Cable guy of classical music….
December 14th, 2007 at 8:26 am
jfrater:
MONTEVERDI! Thank you. I am getting old. Forgetting much.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Jfrater, I’d like to know why you think that Beethoven and Rossini don’t belong on the list as two of the most influential composers of all time? In what way did Beethoven NOT influence every composer to follow? And Rossini, as I said, changed and defined the face of music theatre not only having converged 18th Italian and German opera (Mozart), but also presiding as the true father of French Grand Opera (Meyerbeer and Boieldieu’s inspiration). Also, Gluck would be a likely candidate for this list.
But I’m sorry, Beethoven is still the #1 most influential composer of all time. It is virtually inarguable.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
I wasn’t going to weigh in on this but I would consider this list different from the ‘15 Greatest Composers of All Time’… that list would have Beethoven in one of the top 4 spots but in terms of actual influence… I’m on the fence. He did bridge into what is known as the romantic era and did more for the symphonic form than anyone had ever done, but I don’t know exactly how influential I’d consider him in the same list as someone such as Stravinsky.
One I would drop from the list however is Verdi… he’d be one of the top 3 influential operatic composers with me (along with Wagner and Mozart) but I wouldn’t say he greatly influenced the course of western music- he was writing at, more or less, the same time as Wagner yet looked whose theories caught on into the twentieth century.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:07 am
Ian – well thought out comment – thanks – and thanks for defending my position on Beethoven
I could accept that Verdi was less influential than some of the others here – if I had to replace one on this list it would be Verdi.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:46 am
what no led zepplien comments?
December 15th, 2007 at 4:57 am
jbjr: it would appear that Beethoven is the Led Zeppelin of this list
December 15th, 2007 at 11:14 am
jfrater: I would assume thats because after Mozart he is the only composer most laypeople people have heard of, and so they want some comfort in seeing someone the recognise on this list
December 15th, 2007 at 11:37 am
dangorironhide: alas you are right I think. At least now they will know a few new names
December 15th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Unfortunately, I still disagree. As one who has read complete biographies and letters concerning virtually every major and not-so-major composer from Mozart forward, and has studied musicology as well as performed professionally (with several instruments and also on stage and am still performing and studying) the vast output of these great composers…one cannot argue how apparent Beethoven’s influences in form, harmony, development, orchestration, technique (piano, violin, orchestral, for example) and style on ALL those who succeeded him.
Schubert, who, while was very creative and made many of his own contributions, modelled his entire career after Beethoven. So did Weber in many respects along with Brahms, Mendelssohn, and the Schumann’s. Grieg was most influenced by Beethoven’s piano music as was Liszt, a one-time student of Beethoven, and Chopin. Gounod was mostly influenced by Mozart – Don Giovanni, in particular – but certainly pulled much of his harmonic language and orchestral effects from late Beethoven, as did Saint-Saens and Massenet. Wagner and the Romantic German school (Mahler, Strauss and Marx) all had harmonic languages traced back to Beethoven. Wagner could never have made his advances in harmony and orchestral color had Beethoven not already accomplished so much. Beethoven’s influence on the Italian schools of composition are most evident when traced through the music of Rossini and those his music inspired which carries us through Verdi, Puccini and Respighi.
I am not saying that Beethoven deserves to be on this list just because of his popularity. One of the things I despise in music is that “laypeople” – as you call them – are only familiar with certain names and certain pieces (see: Classical 1-Hit Wonders List) and therefore complete ignorant to the wealth of other great compositions and styles. Beethoven holds his place as being one of the few classical composers who is known by name in virtually all Western and Eastern cultures because his greatness is unavoidable.
And Ian’s comment only further supports my cause for his inclusion on this list. I have yet to see anyone give an adequate response how Beethoven was not ‘influential.’ I’ve provided I think more than enough examples on my part.
December 15th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Just to point out to others…the term “classical” was used very generally here, as these composers were Baroque, Classical, and Romantic.
And I agree, Beethoven is wrongly left out. All 9 of his symphonies are included in canon of standard music.
December 15th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Megan: yes – as I said in an earlier post – if it was about classical period composers I would have said that in the title – but this was about classical music as opposed to pop music! Also – it is not a list of prolific or popular composers – it is about composers with a great influence on other composers to follow. If it were about prolific composers, Bach would be here. Beethoven shouldn’t because he did not influence the romantic period composers – he was part of them (in his last days).
Remember – Puccini is one of the most popular opera composers in the average repertoire these days – but he is not influential – he is just popular. The same is true of Tchaikovsky’s ballets – seen all the time but he did not influence other composers.
December 15th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
I have a question for everyone: would you consider Ives to be influential? He wrote in many of the modern styles and in many cases he did so before others.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Beethoven should have been on this list. He is practically the grand-daddy of all of 19th century music. This is the guy that took the musical forms perfected by Haydn (the Sonata, the Quartet, the Symphony) and practically re-invented them.
So this list is simply incomplete without Beethoven. It’s like having a list of “the most influential scientists” and leaving Einstein out.
The only question left is: Who are we going to throw out of the list, to make room for Beethoven?
I leave this call to you. But I will make a possible suggestion: You might want to throw away Mozart. He was a great composer. He was a genius. But… he wasn’t that influential. Mozart didn’t have almost any effect on the musical frontiers of his time.
Another possiblity is to simply extend the list to 20 items. Then you’ll have room for Beethoven, and 4 other composers of your choosing. And if you do that, make sure to include one of the impressionist French composers (Debussy, perhaps?)
December 15th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Jfrater, you still have not shown how Beethoven was NOT influential on other Romantic composers – aside from the fact that his creation of the ‘Romantic’ style of music is already cause to prove my case. I have cited plenty of examples of his influence and yet you still insist that he was not influential.
Of course Puccini was not very ‘influential’ – nor was Tchaikovsky (with exception to other Russian composers like Stravinsky who always pledged his allegiance to Tchaikovsky) and Ives, though brilliant, was not influential on anyone except those who perform his music.
One could also take quite a bit of issue in including von Bingen on this list. I feel that you’ve included her just because she was unique for being such a prolific individual, but her music affected primarily only her contemporaries and not many of her successors.
I still want to know what proof you have and what valid reasons you can provide that Beethoven was not influential. You have yet to provide anything of substance.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:57 am
Idreno – you can’t prove a negative, so the onus is on you to prove that he was.
December 16th, 2007 at 4:59 am
Jfrater, you are right. One cannot prove a negative. You were, however, given plenty of reasons for the inclusion of Beethoven on the list. You’ve been given the positive proof you asked for.
If you find these reasons unconvincing, it’s only fair that you’ll explain why.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:14 am
draggone: the mark of the Romantic period was chromaticism – Beethoven was beginning to experiment in this area in his late period, but so were other composers. Draggone: can you name some composers that are clearly influenced by Beethoven?
Idreno: Hidelgard Von Bingen virtually invented opera – her musical form is still being used today – you can hardly say that is not influential. Her influence in her own time had a huge impact on Ecclesiastical music from which eventually stemmed masters like Dufay and Palestrina.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:56 am
jfrater, I’m rather shocked by your behavoir concerning this. You always seem to be a well-researched and educated individual and would have thought that when someone with more knowledge on a given subject offered up that information that you would at least be receptive to it. You still have not explained to me how you can ignore and deny the many examples I have given you regarding Beethoven as an influential composer.
Considering that I have spent my entire life as a professional musician and have devoted countless years to musicological study…some might even say ‘expert’…and yet you still seem unmoved.
Madam von Bingen did NOT invent opera. She was an extremely prolific individual who certainly was far ahead of her own time in many ways, but G. Peri is credited for having invented opera – and any musicologist or text book will tell you that.
I studied music history with some of the top musicologists in the world – people who are the authors of many entries in the Groves Dictionary of Music, to cite one example. My main professor of music history, who I worked very closely with, not only was the president of the American Musicological Society for many years, but is the world’s leading authority on medieval music. As in, #1. I studied von Bingen under him, and her ‘influences’ on the future of music was not a major concern. She was influential to those of her own time, but not so much to those that followed.
Furthermore, whoever told you that “chromaticism” was the “mark of Romanticism” is not a very well-informed individual. J.S.Bach had already done more with chromaticism than any other composer up to that time. In fact, J.S.Bach is the first composer that we know of who used all 12 notes of the chromatic scale in one musical phrase where the arrangement of notes did not follow a chromatic scale. This piece was one of Gershwin’s inspirations for one of the musical figures in Rhapsody in Blue.
Furthermore, you constantly refer only to Beethoven’s late works as being “experimental” regarding Romanticism. I think it would be wise to familiarize yourself with many of his other works. Beethoven, even in the earliest piano pieces, already began to push the limits of harmony. Furthermore, I’d like you to name what other composers at that time that were ‘experimenting’ with ‘chromaticism?’
We have examples of Mozart and Haydn pushing chromaticism to new limits and incorporating dissonant harmonies for expressive purposes.
The true mark of Romanticism in music is not chromaticism, but the expansion of musical form and the orchestra. Beethoven did more than anyone else in those fields in his lifetime and served as the model for all others to follow. The man was also deaf most of his life, which means that, regarding harmony, all of his harmonies were CREATED, not heard and replicated, and in most cases, were the first examples of their kind. Beethoven was also the first composer to break the barriers of Sonata form. This is where the true birth of Romanticism began. Beethoven not only founded Romanticism, but he also began to establish the models and provided future composers with the permission to further transport the Romantic movement – a movement which lasted much longer than the Classical period. But the FACT still remains that everything is traced back to Beethoven.
As I have also stated before, Verdi should not hold a place here on this list if Rossini does not. I have already cited plenty of examples why Rossini belongs here.
I am not beating a dead horse here. I think that your website often acts as a place for people to casually educate themselves in subject matters that they wouldn’t necessarily encounter in ways otherwise – and being that music is my field of expertise (of course I don’t know you and to what extent you’ve studied music, but as I don’t believe your primare field of work is performing or writing musicological dissertations, I would be inclined to presume that since it is my life’s devotion above all other things, that I would be more informed about many of these subjects than, shall we say, Wikipedia, which is always full of errors and misinformation) I feel that it is only correct that the information found on sites like this be correct and informed.
I await your response.
December 18th, 2007 at 9:00 am
Idreno – I do appreciate your corrections and comments. Can you name 5 well known composers that were clearly influenced by Beethoven? If you do (cite examples of their work that show the influence), I will add him as a bonus item to the list
December 18th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
I’ve already named quite a few
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:53 am
To Ferg – Shostakovich having the balls to stick it to Stalin would be impossible because that would’ve resulted in Stalin killing him, methinks.
Shostakovich is one of my favorite composers but being one of the most influential? I doubt it.
No Schoenberg on the list though?
December 27th, 2007 at 9:16 am
ah Hildegard. Haven’t heard that name anywhere outside of music history classes. good stuff.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
I read that you did not regard Beethoven influential and saw posts #59 and #60 and decided to add a few of my own. These are various quotes and things I found scattered on the net and in books that I own.
1) Charles Ives – Concord Sonata – Alcott Movement -> cites beethoven melodies from the fifth symphony and the hammerklavier sonata (I played this in junior year of high school and did detailed form and analysis of this piece)
2) Brahms Symphony No. 2 in D Major
Brahms was heavily influenced by Beethoven. This symphony, although not widely successful, was most significant after Schumann. It follows the “regular” four movement structure as most symphonies do. Its richness of orchestration lies between Beethoven and Mahler. In the first movement, Brahms presents three different motifs simultaneously as the main theme. The fourth movement has a flavor of the final movement in Beethoven’s 9th Symphony.
3) Ives Symphony No. 1 in d minor
Ives wrote this symphony after being influenced by Dvorak Symphony No. 9 (mvmt. 2), Beethoven Symphony No. 9, Schubert’s “Unfinished” symphony (mvmt. 1), and Tchaikovsky’s “Pathétique” (mvmt. 4).
4) In his fourth symphony, Tchaikovsky was deeply influenced by Beethoven’s “Fate” theme.
5) Mahler has clearly been influenced by a number of other composers such as Beethoven for his large-scale symphonic construction
6) Carl Czerny: Variations on a Theme by Haydn, Op. 73
The work is a perfect example of Czerny’s art of orchestration, a technique he developed through copying the parts of Bach’s fugues, Scarlatti’s sonatas and works by Haydn, Mozart and of course, his teacher Beethoven. The animated finale is clearly influenced by Beethoven. This is hardly surprising, as Czerny was said to have committed all Beethoven’s piano compositions to memory.
7) Franz LISZT (1811 – 1886) Christus, S.3 (1866) – “At some moments we hear Beethoven’s Missa Solemnis …”
Tchaikovsky on Beethoven – The work (fourth symphony) is patterned after beethoven’s fifth symphony – not as to musical content, but as to the basic idea.
I have more if you would like to see them.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
You had a difficult task keeping the list to 15 but I still think Bach and Beethoven belong. Bach did the Well Tempered Clavier and revised the harmonic system. Beethoven expanded the motif and challenged every symphonic composer as well as composers of ensemble and solo works to try to match or surpass his great works. Particularly the String Quartet. Chopin certainly was very influential as well. The fact that they are great composers is a sign that they also were admired and therefore copied a great deal. Beethoven affected Brahms and Wagner and countless others. Chopin influenced Tchaikovsky, Liszt and Scriabin and countless others. Bach influenced Mozart, Beethoven, Mendellsohn, Wagner, Liszt, Hindemith, Shoenberg and countless others.
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:39 pm
ok too anyone who knows music. Bethoven is probobly a god. he is almost infallable so the fact that he isnt on this list is an absolute disgrace…an absolute disgrace. i would suggest you never make a musical list again because all you ever do is fuck them up and cause controversy
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:41 pm
then again you could make the case that he is more of a romantic composer then a classical…but still
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:45 pm
composers influenced by beethoven include: Schubert, listz, wagner, brahms, tippett, mendelssohn, and mahler. and thats a short list
January 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
you have a very good point mariposa…and three of those are on this list. I love Beethoven and i do believe him to be one of the greatest and influential composers of all time.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
i also would like to add monteverdi…he realy poplorized opera to the point where it is today. or what about Vincenzio Galilei…Debussy and J.S. bach should 100% be on this list. how about mendelssohn. i think wagner should be #1. I dont like how this lists top 4 were all from the 1900’s. how do you know there influence through the years, only short time. beethovehn, bach, motzart they have been played for hundreds of years. i believe this list should be re-made. im sorry im with mariposa on this. its not very well thought up and very poorly executed. (perhaps: Schoenberg, chopin, and listz should be on this list)
January 24th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
oooo btw, i agree with Idreno. Jacopo Peri invented opera. Dafne was the first opera and needs to be included
January 24th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Mariposa and Schiesi have very valid points.
Maybe the study of composition would help the listmaker determine who qualifies for this list.
Here’s my 15 top influential composers
Palestrina, Monteverdi, Vivaldi, Bach, Haydn, Beethoven, Chopin, Wagner, Debussy, Stravinsky, Shoenberg, Stockhausen, Hindemith, Steve Reich, Duke Ellington
Three on this list maybe don’t belong.
Vivaldi is hard to leave out. Excellent drama in the music. Use of effects and choral writing. I thought of Handel who is also hard to leave out but his music is more beautiful than it is ground-breaking.
Duke Ellington is more known as a Jazz composer.
Chopin’s influence could arguably have led to jazz harmony but like Handel maybe less of a ground-breaker. But he did start the whole idea of through-composed short pieces which may have influenced Wagner, Liszt and later Recard Strauss.
January 24th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
i appologize for not reading the forward and see they are in chronological order…my mistake
January 25th, 2008 at 12:12 am
i also would like to make a case for J.S. Bach. He was very well known for basically bringing solo organ into the mainstream. He loved writing in beautiful fugues and toccata styles and really popularized it (note his piece “Die Kunst der Fuge” an unfinished master work of art). Plus you can’t possibly believe that he had no influence on his own children. Motzart, Chopin, Beethoven all said how much they admired him. Chopin said he had bach memorized and played his peices before concerts. he has been called the William Shakespeare and Sir Issac Newton of music.He has his own day in the lutheran church named in his honor. People he influenced include: Motzart, beethovan, Chopin, Mendelssohn, Mahler, Rossini, his children, and Ives. Many composers use his name in musical notes. Bflat, A, C, and H is B natural. It is called the BACH motif. Composers featuring this in his name include Listz “Fantasia and Fugue on Bach”, Schoenbergs “Variations for Orchestra”, Beethovan “piano concerto no. 4″, Busoni “Fantasia Contrappuntistica”, and Bruchi “Metamorfosis B-A-C-H”, just to name a few. all in all over 400 pieces have been said to use this motif just to comemorate Bach and his influence. That is quite an influence indead. It is also used in some radiohead songs (haha). I think i have plead J.S. Bach’s case quite enough
January 25th, 2008 at 12:16 am
p.s. i call john cage the andy warhol of music
January 25th, 2008 at 12:23 am
“Beethovens influence on other composers are as follows: Schubert: the expansive dimension of his own No.9 (the Great), similarity of the rhythm in the opening of the Wanderer to Beethoven’s Hammerklavier; Schumann: the adoption of the song cycle as a model, the quotation of the closing song of An die ferne Geliebte in his Piano Fantasy Op.17, placing of the scherzo as the second movement in his Second Symphony, thematic cross-references and the lack of breaks between movements in the Fourth Symphony (as in Beethoven’s No.5 and 9, and No.5 and 6, respectively), thematic cross-links also in the first movement of the Piano Concerto; Mendelssohn: the parallels between his String Quartet Op.80 in F minor and Beethoven’s F minor Quartet Op.95, his Piano Sonata Op.6 and Beethoven’s Sonatas Opp.90 & 101, choral finale in Symphony No.2, the similarity of the Andante con moto in D minor from the Italian Symphony to the Allegretto of Beethoven’s No.7, the Adagio of the Scottish Symphony has similarities to the Harp Quartet Op.74, the connection of the first two movements of the Violin Concerto by a single bassoon note modeled on the Emperor; Berlioz: Programmatic content and thematic transformation in the symphonies Symphonie fantastique and Romeo and Juliette, also chorus in the finale of Romeo and Juliette; Liszt: inspiration from the Egmont and Leonora Overtures No.2 and 3 to write his 13 Symphonic Poems, programmatic symphonies (Dante and Faust) and use of chorus in the finale of them, thematic transformation in Faust (similar to the transformation of the slow introduction theme in the Pathetique), Piano Sonata in B runs without a break; Brahms: the relentless rhythmic drive, beautiful breadth of melodies, originality of modulations, dramatic treatment of the main structural landmarks and particular expressive content in Symphony No.1 (1876) which was dubbed ‘The Tenth’, the tonal relationships between the movements of this Symphony is another reminder of Beethoven (and Schubert): they are separated from each other by a major third (C minor, E major, Ab major, C minor), the symphonic nature of Piano Concerto No.1 in D minor (1859) and the structure of its rondo (aspired from Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.3), his second Piano Concerto in Bb (1881) was even called ‘a symphony with obbligato piano’, the rhythmic similarity of the opening theme of his Piano Sonata No.1 (1853) to the Hammerklavier’s first theme and the reference to Bb near the opening of a C major sonata movement (similar to Waldstein), particular emphasis on this Bb as Beethoven did the same for G in the first movement of String Quartet Op.59/1 and D and A in the whole of Op.131, similarities of his Violin Concerto and Double Concerto to Beethoven’s Violin Concerto (1878) and Triple Concerto (1887), the intervallic contour of the first theme using descending thirds (cf. Hammerklavier) and dual tonality of the second subject in B minor and major (cf. Appassionato Op.57 and Sonata in G Op.31/1) in the Fourth symphony, the freedom he allowed himself in variation writing can be traced back to Beethoven, his addition of a fourth movement in his second Piano Concerto may have been inspired from Beethoven’s similar innovation in piano sonata; Bruckner: Hugely expansive symphonies, simplicity of motifs and creating great structures from these simple motifs (Urmotive), the use of the first movement of Beethoven’s No.9 as a model in many symphonies (especially in his Third Symphony, also the Eighth starts with a theme rhythmically identical to the opening of Beethoven’s No.9), use of the slow movement of No.9 as a model for some his symphonic slow movements (especially the last three), in the finale of his Symphony No.5, themes from the earlier movements re-appear and alternate with new themes and they altogether become the first subject proper; Mahler: The resemblance of the Resurrection March in his Second Symphony to the march episode in the finale of Beethoven’s No.9, extreme similarity of the opening of the third movement of the Fourth Symphony to the quartet from Act 1 of Fidelio, the opening of the Adagio finale of Mahler’s Third Symphony resembles to the Lento assai from the String Quartet Op.135 and the second part of the main theme from Marcia funebre of the Eroica; Wagner: He considered himself as the successor of Bach of Beethoven. His early instrumental works are based on Beethovenian models. Wagner aspired to compose symphonic opera. He at the end infused opera with Beethoven’s symphonism. He combined literary drama and the Beethovenian symphony in musical drama. Thus, he used large-scale tonal planning and thematic-motivic working (with more emphasis on transformation) in his operas; Franck: Apart from finishing his only Symphony in D minor in major mode, the first phrase of the Grande Piece Symphonique is related to Muss es sein? (Beethoven’s String Quartet op.135); Martinu himself stated that the Eroica lay behind the musical language of his Symphony No.3; Bartok: He was a great fan of Beethoven’s last quartets. These quartets formed the inspiration for Bartok’s six mature quartets. No.1 starts with a fugue like Beethoven’s Op/131, intellectual concentration (similar to the finale of the Hammerklavier and Grosse Fugue) can be seen in the opening of his String Quartet No.4. A motif only uses semitonic intervals forms the generative nucleus in this quartet; Tippett: He was impressed with the vitality of the formal process and the creation of ebb and flow in Beethoven’s music. He frequently started with a sonata-allegro movement and finished with a sonata-rondo in his compositions. His Symphony No.2, for example, consists of a dramatic sonata-allegro followed by an expressive slow movement, a vigorous scherzo and a climaxing finale. So has his String Quartet No.1 a similar structure. He used the model of Beethoven’s String Quartet Op.95 to integrate widely differing material such as the lyrical opening folk-like theme with a homophonic accompaniment, a fugue with a chromatic tail into his Concerto for Double String Orchestra. Like the Hammerklavier and Grosse Fugue, he concluded his String Quartet No.3 and Symphony No.1 with fugues. Similarities extend to the use of expressive trills and increased speed of figurations (as in the finale of Beethoven’s Op.111) in his Piano Sonata No.3. He even quoted the alla marcia from the finale of the Ninth Symphony in the third act of his opera The Midsummer Marriage. Also in the finale of his Third Symphony, he quotes the opening bars of the finale of Symphony No.9.” I wish i could take credit for this…but i cant. this is about as good as it gets. thank you too whoever wrote this. This is Beethovans case
January 25th, 2008 at 12:27 am
i personaly believe and pleaded the case for both J.S. Bach and Beethovan. I believe they deseerve special credit on this list. (its all because i care so much)
January 25th, 2008 at 12:29 am
Yes Shiesl
Tip of the iceberg. Well tempered clavier, Rules of counterpoint and fugal composition, the cantata, the fugue is the precursor of the leitmotif. The Art of the fugue. The Goldberg Variations and the numerous canons in mathematical perfection challenged and set a standard that influenced countless composers. If nothing else they became better merely by learning the basics of counterpoint for the next 300 hundred years.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Watch your spelling of your hero’s name.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:00 am
i am a horrible speller and for that i apologize
January 25th, 2008 at 1:05 am
It appears you’ve modified your original selections. Starting to look better. I agree mostly with your choices except for Handel, Verdi and Nadia Boulanger.
I only say this since I’ve never heard a single work of hers. Being a good teacher is one thing but influencing all the composers you mentioned when their own styles are so diverse. You give her too much credit. Ann additional note about Wagner who you stated as one of the important ones.
What about film music? All the scores of early film music owe a huge thanks to Wagner. How about those Brass arrangements? Bruckner, Mahler and Recard Strauss owe him plenty. The chromaticism was spoken about earlier as if it were somehow discordant. It may have been at first to some. It is the single most amazing aspect of Wagner’s music. Hate to say it but I find his opera’s hard to take. But the overtures and the orchestration throughout influenced all orchestral composers after. In fact Mahler is too much like Wagner to be included in my humble opinion.
But thanks for starting this whole thing. Entertaining.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Wow jfrater you had to defend yourself a lot on this list, I’m behind you on Verdi all the way.
Btw. Chromaticism – all the ugly notes in between… genius. I may have to use that.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Ember
Are you joking? You really like the comment on chromaticism? Chromaticism is the beauty, the spice, the drama, the mood without which the greatest composers would be for the most part mundane.
Bach, Wagner, Purcell, Strauss and many others thrived on chromaticism. Saying they are the ugly notes in between is like saying Mozart wrote too many notes.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Rick, I just thought it was funny… I’ve spent way too many years at music college to get wound up that easily.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Ok Ember. I should lighten up. FYI. jfrater is the creator of this site. Not that he deserves any special treatment even when his comments seem a little off. Not so sure about Verdi influencing composers. Opera composers, yes. Beethoven had more influence. Even Fidelio as a musical form is more intructive as a total work than many Verdi operas. Yes Verdi’s works are enduring. It would be wonderful is someone would point out what a composer can learn from Verdi or any of the others on the list.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I may be a little biased on the Verdi front since I’m soon to be going into rehearsals for Falstaff and I think it’s the best thing since sliced bread, and probably influenced every comic opera since.
February 6th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Hi jfrater.
Maybe im the first one who doesn´t criticies the chosen composers but the chosen music.
I wouldnt have used the Walkuerenritt as an example.
Althought it is popular, i think the overtoures of “Der fliegende Hollaender”, “Tristan und Isolde” or “Siegfrieds Tod und Trauermarsch” from Goetterdaemmerung would be better examples.
Maybe you could take berlioz to your list. His symphonie fantastique was one of the first symphonic poems.
Sry for my english im not very good at writing this language.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
what and beethoven and why you dont like nigel he plays vivaldi very well
March 19th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Beethoven is easily the most influential Classical composer of all time. Im not some kind of fanatic, but I have to say not even putting him on the list is ridiculous. Hes like the… Citizen Kane of music. (I dont know if thats a good comparison.)
April 24th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I think Tchaikovsky was a big influence on Rachmaninov,early Sibelius,Arnesky,Taneyev,Prokofiev with his ballets and Dvorak was with Tchaikovskys last 3 symphonys.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
This just happens to be my favorite game — I don’t mean to trivialize it in any way. My best friend is a musical genius (piano virtuoso, perfect pitch, photographic musical memory, degrees from excellent conservatories) I am so envious… We do top five, ten, fifteen all the time: best over-all, most influential, personal favorite, most annoying, etc. So I come to this with many lists, none definitive. I do have to say that any ‘most influential’ list has to have Wagner at or near the top. He was a strong influence on at least two composers in the current list (Mahler, Verdi — yes, Verdi). He invented film music even before there were films. Today there are derivatives of his music everywhere. There even was a Star Trek episode based on Tristan. He was Arnold Schönberg’s biggest hero, and look where that led. Alban Berg even worked the ‘Tristan Chord’ into a twelve-tone piece in the Lyric Suite.
Debussy is an outright omission, yet is one of the most influential composers in history, He changed everything in the course of the French music stream and influenced a diverse group of subsequent composers, Bartok to Delius and many in between, Derivatives of his music are everywhere: how often do you hear big sonorous chords, moving with subtle modal shifts? Debussy put I IV V I to sleep.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Josquin, Monteverdi, Bach, Vivaldi, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Liszt, Wagner, Debussy, Mahler, Schoenberg, Bartok, Stravinsky, Reich (much as I hate to admit it)
The inclusion of Boulanger is unacceptable; she was a composition teacher, not a composer.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:03 am
In my opinion, Mozart should be #1.
June 12th, 2008 at 9:40 am
WHAT COMMON STREET DRUGS ARE YOU HIGH ON?!??!!
CAGE? REALLY?
John Cage is the ANTITHESIS of influential.
He is a divergent frill in some master’s course….and a cultural dead end at BEST!
At worst, he was a totally self aggrandized (and self financed) lunatic totally out of touch with reality or any hope of an audience.
In the history books he and Ives are both little more the a foot note right next to Ornette Coleman or Glass…about how far from the main stream a self financed twit can venture.
….”influential” is NOT A word I’d use for this character of exoteric novelty.
Duke Ellington was Influential….
heck….Danny Elfman is more “influential” in recent times then HALF these mainstays academic (aca-duh-mic) mass psychosis…you twits are not just behind the times now….you’re behind the times from back in the 1880’s when this trash fodder of hyper-graphia in sheet music began.
if ANYONE is “influential” in how music is composed how…I ask you HOW can you not include any Broadway….or any popular music….their minimalism DECIMATED your entire field…and yet you still cling to the scraps of wood left from the classical-European-ship that the 60’s pop music phenomenon sank.
and why study Bartok at all…if only .01% of the human population even KNOWS it exists.
You losers have lost….because you don’t even perceive the struggle you are engaged in.
You need to realize that the audiences around the world would likely draw a sharper line to Frank Zappa’s VOLUMOUS quality compositions.
Most of Zappa’s work was INFINITELY more listenable (by modern audiences)
then two or three of these dinosaurs you list here.
Composers every where are going to need to
face the fact, 20th century composers were a dead end not a development.
These are the musicians that ENDED orchestral music’s life
20th century composers were not new buds on a branch of music…they were the last nail in the coffin.
June 12th, 2008 at 11:04 am
PS: Note … “CLASSICAL” composers….
MOST of these artists are PRE-classical and a few are Post Classical
calling Saint Hildegard Von Bingen “classical”
is akin to calling The Greatful Dead “Jazz”
June 26th, 2008 at 4:32 am
did you all know that only MAN IS GENIUS and women is just dumb isso funk rotfl about your commnent
June 30th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
I agree with JS Bach not being on the list, based on the criteria, but Palestrina was just as much of a creative cul-de-sac: Josquin or Ockhegem are far more worthy of being included, as they actually influenced later composers (including Palestrina). Beethoven’s omission is ludicrous: who did he *not* influence over the next century? If he doesn’t belong, neither does Mozart.
June 30th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Issofunky: Frank Zappa? ROTFLMAO! Oh, wait, you were serious… you were, weren’t you? Can you tell me what his major musical accomplishments were, besides writing 50 albums worth of 6th-grade locker room humor, idolizing the most deliberately irritating composer of the century (Varese), and inflicting Steve Vai and Adrian Belew on the world (in which giving Zappa credit is like crediting Ozzy Osbourne for Randy Rhodes, except that Randy Rhodes was enjoyable to listen to)? Don’t get me wrong, I do like Zappa’s music, but get a sense of perspective! He’s every bit as much a figure on the far fringe of music as anyone else you criticize for the same thing.
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:12 am
i adore all forms of music, but honestly john cage and that other dude with mothing but percussion? at least a drum core but no just random drums hitting whenever, thats not music, thats noise. john cage i dont even consider a composer, i consider him an inventor, if you want 4 min and 33 sec. of nature take a friggin walk!! i was appalled to see no beethoven who basically started the romantic era. dont you think like john williams who epitimizes composing movie scores or nobuo uematsu who made video game music important should be on the list
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:30 am
I’ve only hit this list at odd spots because it’s so late here. I’ll be back (Oh, God, no, they groan). But someone asked what was the problem with Nigel Kennedy, a sentence that jumped out at me. He supports Aston Villa F.C. You don’t need another reason.
Yes, Influential as opposed to great is thought-provoking. I’ll have to think.
You obviously know your onions, but I didn’t realise you were to music what I am to bits of botany until I read some of the above, Jamie. I’m now feeling a bit of the teaching granny to suck eggs syndrome after all my vomit over at Composers You Don’t Know. Still everyone else here treats you to lese majeste. Why shouldn’t I?
July 19th, 2008 at 5:28 am
Yay, 100!
You skipped out on a lot(BEETHOVEN, minimalism ect) but this list was pretty good.
Kudos.
August 19th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
such a list without Beethoven?,
Wagner regarded him as the last word in purely orchestral music and probably the main reason he did not get into symphonies (although he did composed a youthful one)
To guys like Brahms and Liszt he was like a God, Bruckner was never the same man after hearing or seeing the score of the ninth, Schubert said it was almost ridiculous to try to compose after him (or words to that effect.)
He cast a giant shadow over the 19th and early 20th century, symphonies in this time are i believe generally based on the Beethovian’ model of a somewhat dark, questioning first movement followed by a journey to light and triumph. (cf Bruckner No
Similarly his piano sonatas surely revolutionized the form,
As my name suggests i do not know anything about the nuts and bolts of musical creation but emotionally, even spiritually Beethoven i think was and is a massive influence, and arguably the title of the list should be who are the most influential composers after Beethoven.
I tend to agree with Issofunky about a lot of 20th century stuff, i simply cannot see it surviving only gathering dust in second hand record stores. Alot of it ’sounds’ like sound effects rather than music.
Also no J.S. Bach, leaving Ludwig and him out of such a list is akin to leaving Elvis and the Beatles out of a top list of influential ‘pop’ music figures.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Well said wotsacrochet. Beethoven and Bach. Debussy to a lesser degree but important.
More examples of their influence.
Brahms 1st sometimes called Beethoven’s Tenth.
Bach tempered the keyboard.
Here’s a quote from Bartok who owes a great deal to these composers. Specifically the String Quartets.
“Debussy’s great service to music was to reawaken among all musicians an awareness of harmony and its possibilities. In that, he was just as important as Beethoven, who revealed to us the possibilities of progressive form, or as Bach, who showed us the transcendent significance of counterpoint. Now, what I am always asking myself is this: is it possible to make a synthesis of these three great masters, a living synthesis that will be valid for our time?”
August 20th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Where’s Debussy?
Steve Reich would be a better pick than John Cage
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:48 pm
good list, but there are so many composer’s that should be on here that aren’t…and cage being number one…kinda interesting, he has a sound of his own, obviously, but isnt the first to explore that type of “music”…
November 23rd, 2008 at 3:16 am
Where the hell is beethoven and J.S Bach ?
Good to see Vivaldi and Handel there.
December 8th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
beethoven and J.S. Bach
December 30th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Where the fuck is Schoenberg? This list is bullshit.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
I think if you have Dufay you need to include Dunstable, both where very important…sorry this post is so late, haha
January 29th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
wow i can see how so many people say that these artists are not considered classical, because i completely agree. I love listverse but i’d put this list on my top 10 lists i wish i didn’t waste my time reading. maybe that could be a new list? I was so excited to see a list about some classical music and not some of the stuff that some lists are made out of that i could care less for. I think “classical musicians” comes with a completely different connotation then what is meant by jfrater on this list, thus if anything the list name should be changed so it’s not as misleading.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Josquin was probably a better choice than Dufay there. Certainly would’ve been much better known than Dufay in 16th or 17th century Europe. Bach and Beethoven were vastly influential on everyone in the 19th century. Schoenberg is obviously the most influential 20th century composer. I loathe him and everything he stands for, yet I would never deny this. Prokofiev is probably the 2nd biggest influence on film composers (after Wagner).
Vivaldi, I’d dare say, influenced really nobody at all (except Bach, but that’s a dead end according to you)! No-one even knew about him before the 20th century! And Boulanger is not a “composer” so what is she doing on this list? If you include her, then you HAD to include Rameau, who was largely forgotten as a composer for a while but continued to be hugely influential as a theorist. And if you’d ever browse through any music theory book, you’d realize what a sad mistake you made not including Chopin – he probably heads the list on the number of examples from his work included in the average textbook.
April 27th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
THE CREATOR OF THIS LIST DOESN’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CLASSICAL MUSIC!.. There’s no Beethoven! Chopin! Liszt! What the F***???! Are you f****n guessing some random composers and put them on your “Top 15 MOST Influential Classical Composers”??? come on!
May 8th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Without Bach Mozart would not be who he was, niether would beethoven, Schumann or Medelsohn. His works were HUGE influnces on these guys. Schumann also, as a composer and music critic had tremendous influnce. Make this list, cool composers or soemthing. Most influential? you’re crazy
May 21st, 2009 at 4:56 pm
People need to quit complaining. This is a list of INFLUENTIAL composers, not most SIGNIFICANT composers. There is a difference.
I don’t think any of the composers listed should be taken off or replaced by others. I think the only problem is that perhaps the list could be a few names longer
Regardless, it’s a very thorough and well thought out list.
May 24th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Sorry, but Bach was enormously influential. Virtually every later composer studied his music. Important examples are Brahms, Mendelssohn, and Schumann. And don’t forget Bach’s own sons! It’s funny that you couldn’t find any music from your hugely influential Nadia Boulanger!
Otherwise, there’s some good people on this list – though surely Beethoven should be there too.
May 24th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Ha ha I replied without reading others’ comments (and thinking mine was particularly scathing!) but every else is saying the same!
June 19th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Agree with others. Epic list fail for now J.S. Bach or Beethoven. Someone needs to hire a fact checker so people who know more than he does don’t jump all over him..
June 28th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
How about Khachaturian? Just think of how many Loony Tunes cartoons he infuenced. Everyone knows it’s impossible to hunt rabbits and road runners without the Sabre Dance playing.
August 1st, 2009 at 11:02 pm
At first, I was thinking “Where’s bach? I know this guy is stupid enough to put him in”. Then I noticed that you said you excluded him from it because he wasn’t influential.
You left a key detail out.
He isn’t from the classical era, making him not a classical musician. He is a baroque musician.
August 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
yeah. i agree with omitting beethoven. it’s not like he was the greatest bar none except arguably mozart.
lol what a completely retarded list.
nor did you include tchaikovsky. rofl.
you deserve to be shot in the stomach and left to slowly die in a field.
September 13th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
I take issue with not including Bach. You can discard John Cage entirely and put Bach at #1. His music was not influential during his time because everyone was tired of heavy, robust complexity. But among the great Classical composers, Haydn and Mozart knew his music was the pinnacle of Baroque complexity. They just didn’t have neough of it for it influence them sufficiently. Wen Mendelssohn discovered it in 1829, he brought it to the forefront of the musical world. All the Romantic composers suddenly knew the genius they were hearing, and studied his fugal theory, especially, in order to better their own fugal writing. I mean Mendelssohn, Saint-Saens, Schumann, Liszt, Chopin, Verdi, Brahms, Mahler. Everybody. He influenced all of them. When you hear a fugue by Brahms or Schumann, you’re hearing Bach’s influence.
October 5th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
I agree with everyone else about Beethoven.
However, on the whole I like this list – I was especially pleased to see Saint Hildegard Von Bingen, particularly considering I had first heard of her last night… From what I heard, she was very influential.
As a player of a lever harp, I would have to say I wish more composers for piano/pedal harp would think of chromaticism as “the ugly notes in between”, because accidentals are really hard to do fast, and there’s just so little music for lever harp.
Though actually accidentals can be really pretty, they’re hard for me.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:43 am
I disagree with your note about J.S.Bach. Although he had no great influence on the generations immediately after him, his influence was much greater more recently. Ask Eddie Vanhalen for example.