Religious scholars say that God suspended the laws of incest in the early days of man in order to ensure that man spread on the earth. In the words of the commentators of the Douay Rheims Bible: “God [dispensed] with such marriages in the beginning of the world, as mankind could not otherwise be propagated.” Despite that, these tales are not all simply matters of procreation – particularly item 1. So, here is a list of 6 of the more questionable relationships in the Bible.
And Cain went out from the face of the Lord, and dwelt as a fugitive on the earth, at the east side of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived, and brought forth Henoch: and he built a city, and called the name thereof by the name of his son Henoch. [Genesis 4:16-17]
Cain was the first born son of Adam and Eve, and Abel was the second. In Genesis 4 we read how Cain kills his brother and is sent east of Eden where he marries a woman and “lays” with her. Because Adam and Eve were the first humans – from whom all people come – Cain’s wife was his sister – and, consequently, all of the early Biblical relationships were incestuous (with the exception of Adam and Eve). Cain, incidentally, was the guy that caused so much trouble for the Mormon’s who believed that the cursed “Mark of Cain” meant black skin, leading them to forbid blacks from entering the Mormon priesthood (God “revealed” that they were allowed to let black skinned people in to the priesthood in 1978). You can read more about that blunder here. In the image above we see Cain killing his brother Abel.
Howbeit, otherwise also she is truly my sister, the daughter of my father, and not the daughter of my mother, and I took her to wife. And after God brought me out of my father’s house, I said to her: Thou shalt do me this kindness: In every place, to which we shall come, thou shalt say that I am thy brother. [Genesis 20:12-13]
Abraham married his half sister Sara in Ur. The King of Gerara took her from Abraham and God sent him a dream to tell him that he would be destroyed for taking a woman who already had a husband (God approved of the marriage between the brother and sister). The King returned Sara to Abraham and they remained together as a couple until she died at the age of 127. Incidentally, Abraham died 38 years later at the ripe old age of 175.
And Thare lived seventy years, and begot Abram, and Nachor, and Aran. And these are the generations of Thare: Thare begot Abram, Nachor, and Aran. And Aran begot Lot. And Aran died before Thare his father, in the land of his nativity in Ur of the Chaldees. And Abram and Nachor married wives: the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai: and the name of Nachor’s wife, Melcha, the daughter of Aran, father of Melcha, and father of Jescha. [Genesis 11:26-29]
This is one of those complex “generations” quotes that are found throughout the early stages of the Bible, but if you pay close attention you can see that Nachor (Abraham’s brother) married Melcha (his niece). It is phrases like those above which make it so difficult to read the Bible cover to cover. Frankly, these parts of the Bible make Proust’s “In Remembrance of Things Past” read like a Doctor Seuss book!
And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father. [Genesis 19:31-36]
It doesn’t really get much more blatant than that. The two daughters had sex with their father, Lot, in order to preserve his family line. Incidentally, this all happened shortly after they had fled from Soddom and Gomorrah which was destroyed by God for its immorality – ironic?. After the events described above, Lot had no memory of it (maybe it was the liquor) and nine months later the daughters gave birth to two sons, Moab (father of the Moabites), and Ammon (father of the Ammonites).
The sons of Merari: Moholi and Musi. These are the kindreds of Levi by their families. 20 And Amram took to wife Jochabed his aunt by the father’s side: and she bore him Aaron and Moses. And the years of Amram’s life were a hundred and thirty-seven. [Exodus 6:19-20]
This is the family history of Moses – the guy who lead the Jews out of Egypt and later was given the ten commandments (which were not actually 10 commandments – more on that here). Jochabed was Moses’ Great-aunty Mom.
And it came to pass after this, that Amnon the son of David loved the sister of Absalom the son of David, who was very beautiful, and her name was Thamar. And he was exceedingly fond of her, so that he fell sick for the love of her: for as she was a virgin, he thought it hard to do any thing dishonestly with her. [II Kings 13:1-2 ] And Thamar came to the house of Amnon her brother: but he was laid down: and she took meal and tempered it: and dissolving it in his sight she made little messes. And taking what she had boiled, she poured it out, and set it before him, but he would not eat: and Amnon said: Put out all persons from me. And when they had put all persons out, Amnon said to Thamar: Bring the mess into the chamber, that I may eat at thy hand. And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]
Our final item is not just a case of incest – it is a case of incestuous rape! Amnon fell in love with his sister, Thomar, and was counseled by a crafty man to trick her in to having sex with him. He followed the bad advice and when Thomar tried to defend herself, he raped her. At least justice was ultimately done as Thomar’s other brother, Absalom, killed Amnon two years later in vengeance. Let that be a lesson to us all!
what an insightful list! as an atheist, I often use the story of Cain & Abel as my intro into "The Inconsistent and Superlative Contradictions in the Holy Book of Christians" speech.
After God has questioned Cain where his brother is, and speaks of how Abel's spilled blood cries out to Him, he banishes Cain from the lands of his youth, and curses the soil so that Cain can never grow anything again. Oh-and God makes him a vagabond. Becuase God loves him enough not to smite him down.
This is Cain's response…
Cain said to the Lord "My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be restless wanderer on the earth, and WHOEVER FINDS ME WILL KILL ME." But the Lord said unto him, "Not so, if ANYONE kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that NO ONE who found him would kill him. (Genesis, 4:13-4:15)
when I was a young, curious teenager passing thru America's foster care system, I stayed with a preacher and his family for a few months. I became the "good little born-again Christian". and then… well… I began to read the bible. Really read it. and this was my first confusion… this passage.
When I questioned the preacher on exactly who would find Cain and kill him, if Adam and Eve where the only people on earth, he told me after a few moment's hesitation that Adam and Eve where the only people of God, and that there where already other people upon the earth, who where not of God and therefore not protected or deemed useful to God's plan.
needless to say, my unwavering belief in the Christian faith began to vibrate with doubt. after I finished reading the entire Bible, I read it AGAIN. and by the time I finished it the second time, I realized that although religion has a place in many people lives', mine was not one of them. Becuase the Holy Bible was the most erotic, vulgar, cruel, rude, inconsistent, ironic, unsubstantial, pastoral, testosterone-laden, *****ual deprived, perverse, and lewd book I have ever read.
It was then, at the tender age of 16, I realized that Gods where created by men, and not the other way around.
The story of lot and his daughters is one I use to when I discuss the contradictory nature of the Bible.
Christians have interesting responses to these passages- my 2 favorite responses EVER where these:
Cain & Abel : " We have no way of knowing that Adam and Eve did not have many more children than Cain & Abel. It's just that the Bible spoke of the sons because of the first evil act of murder. So one of Cain's own siblings would have hurt him for killing one of the other brothers"
WHAT? So there where more children by Adam & Eve that where not mentioned anywhere else in the Bible? and they would harm Cain as he harmed Abel? Yeah, God really would be pleased by that. Oh-wait! I'm talking about the Old Testament God. HE was always so *****y. If you just touched his Ark of the Covenant, he killed you instantly. Nice guy.
Lot & his Daughters : "That was acceptable at that time. If the girls did not get their father drunk and sleep with him, then Lot's line would have died."
Okay. First off, I been drunk plenty o' times. and although I may have made some bad decisions, I always remembered what happened. ANY woman will tell you a guy with to much alcohol in his system can't get a stiffy. And most guiys after the sage of 35 have some difficulty anyhow in that department. Guess these gals used an electro-ejaculator and turkey-basters on poor old pops.
Oh- and it's not acceptable for father today to sleep with their daughters to "keep it in the family", but it's okay to blindly follow a religion based on the musings of lonely sheep herders living in a desert over 2,000 years ago? How exactly does that apply to our space-age world today?
i'm done. no more coffee for me today.
ringtailroxy
Loved reading your response
You said: “Becuase the Holy Bible was the most erotic, vulgar, cruel, rude, inconsistent, ironic, unsubstantial, pastoral, testosterone-laden, *****ual deprived, perverse, and lewd book I have ever read”
Just because the Bible mentions these things in the interest of presenting a truthful account of what happened with those people, does not mean the Bible approves what’s bad.
But of course people who have an axe to grind are the most irational and ilogical people you can find
No such thing as an Atheist. You either accept God or disapprove of him and hate him… Everything in your conscious and your soul is telling you to seek him but you live in self-denial bcuz you rather be autonomous and self sufficient. Independece is great for your ego. So great that you rather serve your ego than to serve the living God who waits for you to come home with arms wide open. Truth hurts God Bless
I appreciate your comment but only find logical fallacy with it. Things in life are rarely “this or that” and there are several levels of belief and reasoning.
There is such a thing as “atheism”… it’s the complete rejection of deities. All deities. I no more believe in the Hebrew God than I believe in Buddha, or Zeus, or the prophet Zoroaster.
I cannot “hate” something that does not exist. Quite the contrary, I respect and admire those whom are capable of faith. If it provides them with the answers to their life’s problems, gives them strength, or a sense of community, more power to them.
As for me, I find more wonder & joy in the natural world, explained as best as it can be at this time by physics and science. I need not a supernatural force to guide my life, punish me, or grant me wishes like a genie. I also lack a belief in any form of an “afterlife”. Therefore, I need not act “good” to seek favor with a paranormal being, but I allow my actions to contribute to my community, solidify my relationships, and the reward I have is immediate and powerful.
Very interesting thought U have, and I have exactly the same feelign as U have….But now I am not a Christian but I can answer U the question that U asked the “Preacher”.
When Adam and Eve was dwelling on earth they had many children. And everytime they had a child it was in pairs(A boy and a Girl). The one born on the same day could not marry each. This way the population got multiplied.
And Adam and Eve lived around 900 years…so by the time they died they had many children.
Hope it answers the quesiton.
I like these kinds of lists. Yep, the Bible's got everything! You can't make this stuff up! And Scott, there are plenty of aspects of the Bible that I don't mind teaching to my kids… when they are the appropriate ages, they can read the other stuff. It's a book for adults also- learning from and growing from it… your entire life. When you are a child, you learn not to steal and lie, when you are an adolescent, you learn not to fornicate and kill… it all comes in good time, and I don't hide the fact from my kids that there is evil in this world. The Bible is filled with life lessons that can be useful for everyone.. whether you are religious or not.
Lifelessons that applied 2000 years ago, it’s a 2000 year old book written by humans with human flaws who lived 2000 years ago. It has nothing to do with life lessons for this age, it simply does not apply. And one does not need a bible for morality anyhow, I don’t know where religious people got that idea, but an atheistic person is by no means less of a good person than a religious one.
LOL!! So where do YOU get your basis for morality today…..Family Guy??? Of course it applies. All, I can tell you is when God speaks to your heart, you will know, if you have shut yourself off to Him, then you will have posts like this….am I religious…not sure…. but I DO know God is real, and will do my best to follow His Word. How do I know God is real, one reason is because I KNOW Satan is real. There are absolutely “good” athesists, just as there are “bad” Christians….we don’t go to heaven based on how good or bad we are but whether or not we believe in Jesus Christ and if He died for our sins. God IS real ‘Nuff said.
I don't want to start any debates, but I just have some responses to the Cain and Abel and Lot and his daughters stories.
1. Cain and Abel- I am what is considered a theistic evolutionist. This means that I think that God used evolution to create all life. As a result, during the time of Cain and Abel, there would have been other groups people as well as other organisms (like Neanderthal man) that would have the opportunity to kill Abel. Adam & Eve were just the final step in the evolutionary process and they were given a soul and reason to make them "in the likeness of God"
2. Lot and his daughters – This was considered a sin during this time and they were severely punished for it! If you will read the Old Testament closely, you will see that the two groups of people that the Israelites are constantly fighting/killing are the Moabites and Ammonites (the two lines descended from this relationship). The entire lines were punished in the Old Testament, so the Israelites ended up killing the entire lines of Moabites and Ammonites, which is why there are none around today.
Again, I don't mean to start any religious debate, I just wanted to respond to those two specific instances because they have been referenced several times already.
So an entire group of people is punished because of something the daughters did. Another reason I cannot get with the Bible. Sins of the father? Would we allow such despicable behavior today? What has your father or mother done that you shall be punished for. What ignorance….
I’d rather look at it as a “consequence” of — rather than a “punishment” for — the sin committed.
I used to like religion posts, but not anymore. Some of the comments here really ***** me off. I know people are entitled to their own opinion, however, i feel it's unecessary to bash any religion because of "ridiculous notions". You know what, if you don't believe in certain things, thats fine. But you don't have any right to say wether or not its wrong. You weren't around at the time, so you have no way of knowing if something could be true or not.
So you believe any work of fiction you read because you werent there to prove it doesnt exist? That’s the dumbest most backward logic i’ve ever heard. The burden of proof is on the person MAKING THE CLAIM, not the one who opposes it. If you want to say something is a fact, then you have to prove it. Before that it can not be considered a fact, it’s at the most anecdotal evidence which doesn’t prove anything according to the scientific method.
I ♥ Bob!
Where is that rule that says that the burden of proof lies on the one who makes a claim? Is the one who challenges a claim not making a claim?
Roxy: where does the bible discourage reasoning, i've never heard that passage. islamic philosophers believe that god directly tells us to use our reason, and logic can lead to the one truth in the same way that prophets are told the truth.
Genesis 2:17. God commanded Adam to not eat of the Tree of Knowledge.
‘Nuff said.
Cain and his wife: There’s nothing in the bible that precludes God creating other humans subsequent to Adam and Eve.
Amazing that parents allow their child read this book fill of evils that I would never allow my child to be exposed that young.
Why do you think that the Catholics don't want you to read the actual KJV text of the bible? The bible, no matter how distasteful, describes the world as it was, and still is.
I’ve heard of Cain and Abel before, but like Astraya said, God could have created other human after Adam and Eve.
Possibly, but he didn't or it would have said so. Many priests have said on the matter that "Incest was neccessary to begin the human race" This has been stated many times by priests and theologins as the excuse to why incest takes place in the bible. It is acknowledge and accepted. Please don't try to reason the facts away by assumptions
This book is not the "good book" christians woul have you believe 
Oh, and what i've said can and should be looked up, these are your guys accepting incest so you may want to take another look at this faith.
number 1 is interesting. i have never heard of incest or rape in the Bible. nor have i read it. but all and all, this was an interesting list.
You're kidding; right? You don't even have to read past Genesis to encounter both incest and rape.
cool list!
Interesting list, but this is why I don’t rely much on the Bible for my views (incest and the ridiculous notion that a woman lived to 127 and a man lived to 175 don’t seem all that factual to me).
Scott- I don’t think the bible is any more “fill[sic] of evils” than any other history of people that spans several thousand of years. And as for parents letting their children read the Bible, its all about age appropriateness as with any other subject that you might teach your child.
Interesting list, I always wondered how Adam and Eve’s children continued the line, although I have to agree with some above posters, I think #6 is just speculation while the rest of the list has actual passages about the incest.
great list!
My, how I love those religious discussions…
Personally, I guess the easiest way for me to approach the bible is seeing it from the culture-historical point of view. Just have a curious look how people saw themselves and the world some thousands years ago.
Finally, quoting my former Fine Arts teacher:
“People, read the bible! I can guarantee, you won’t find more ***** and crime anywhere else.”
Oh, Bible. You kinky book, you.
That ruined my appetite this morning.
all of the early Biblical relationships were incestuous (with the exception of Adam and Eve).
Why the exception? They even had the same dna, I assume, what with being made out of a rib and all.
And now incest is defined as having a *****ual relationship with someone having the same DNA as yours?
To Scott way up at the top who said: Amazing that parents allow their child read this book fill of evils that I would never allow my child to be exposed that young.
I’m in a Christian family and I was always hearing about the Virgin Mary; I didn’t know what that meant until the magical Internet told me at about age 11. And that’s the only thing linked to ***** I ever heard about as a kid having to do with the Bible.
Why did you have to put the blurb about the Mormon church in there? It seems rather non-topical. I thought this list was about incestuous relationships…
Drunken incestuous orgies? Right on, Old Testament. Right on.
“Cain, incidentally, was the guy that caused so much trouble for the Mormon’s who believed that the cursed “Mark of Cain” meant black skin, leading them to forbid blacks from entering the Mormon priesthood ”
Um, not quite. The practice of not ordaining Africans into the priesthood began a few decades into Mormonism’s existence, after several African men had already been ordained (and their priesthood was not revoked). No explanation for the restriction was ever given, so people began to speculate, and they came up with the “curse of Cain” as an explanation.
I grew up Mormon, and we were always taught that someday, Africans would be given the priesthood, so it wasn’t any kind of surprise when the restriction was lifted. In fact, there was dancing in the streets.
drunken incest orgies? O.O thats just, weird!
man, that bible is *****ing kinky!
Ringtailroxy: well said, I completely agree
Dicentra: that is not true unfortunately:
“[A]ny man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] … in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ….
What is that mark? you will see it on the countenance of every African you ever did see upon the face of the earth, or ever will see…. I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain” (February 5, 1852, Brigham Young)
Young also used the Curse of Ham to say that blacks were servants of servants (slaves) and that they would be forever:
“Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race—that they should be the ‘servant of servants;’ and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree”
nice list. i’m gonna highlight these passages in my bible right now (for future argument reference).
how come the sunday morning TV evangelists never talk about this stuff?? it would be better than Spice TV!
“What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish.”
that whole section of Genesis 4 (17:28) is full of inter-family marriages.
Cain left Eden (where the only people in the world were Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel). He and his wife(?!) had a son named Enoch. Enoch had a son (who was the mother??) named Irad. Irad was the father of Mehujael (who was the mother??). Mehujael had a son named Methushael (who was the mother??).
Methusael had a son named Lamech (who was mom??)
Lamech had two wives, Adah and Zillah. (these had to be offspring from somewhere higher in the tree).
at Gen 4:25 Adam and Eve have another son Seth. Seth had a son named Enosh (who was mom??).
Where did all these women come from? The presumption is that there must have been daughters somewhere from Enoch thru Lamech. If so, this whole section is incestuous.
The problem with that is the laws on incest did not come until years and years later. The morality that you are applying now did not exist back then. You are looking at it through what you know of today, not from the point of view from back then. Even in the bible god calls this peroid the time of ignorance.
Very sensible. Thank you.
in #4, Haran (Aran) is the father of Lot (#3).
I guess Lot’s daughters were just following their great-uncle’s example.
As far as Cain and his wife – what about the belief that Lilith was the fist wife of Adam and not Eve?
Lilith comes from the Jewish religion, and has no place in the christian beliefe. BTW even if you want to include Lilith, once she leaves Adam she only lays with Animals and Demons producing no human offpring of her own, In fact she is considered a succubus that comes to kill and eat human offspring to spite Adam and Eve's blood line. She never bared any children from Adam, so with or without Lilith in the story of creation, she cannot be considered a way around the Incest that takes place through alot of the bible. But you are ignoring the fact that Incest does explicitly take place in the bible at all. Even if it doesn't occure with Cain and his wife, the story of Lot and his daughters, or their great uncle, is purly undeniable.
Yay bible lists, my favorite.
Jfrater:
The story of Absalom and Thamar is actually in II Samuel 13, not II Kings.
23. I think he chose the Bible because it’s THE book on religion for the largest percentage of the world. It’s important to face your religion with open-eyes; incest was a part of Bible, therefore knowledge of Judeo-Christian religions involve knowing about that incest.
Some people deal with the wrongs they’ve been felt differently. Some do it with anger, others logic, others still tears. I won’t tell you how I dealt with it when I was a young pagan, fighting off my Catholic shackles.
“But you don’t have any right to say wether or not its wrong.” Spelling aside, that would be judging, too. So, it’s okay for you to judge people because you know what’s right or wrong? No, you don’t. Let that be reserved for higher powers or themselves. Let them judge; it’s the internet. At least they’re not flinging poo at each other, like at eBaumsworld.
I find it fascinating the wave of maniacs that come out of the woodwork to defend the ”world’s greatest work of fiction.”
some of the worst list on this sites I would argue are the ones that incite blind, christian fueled anger towards other religions and those that believe in a god other than their’s.
every list is interesting and something can be learned everytime….too bad these psychos can’t keep off the hippie bandwagon
for fun, you should also read Levi 15 about “unclean bodily discharges” (urine and semen), and Levi 18 about “forbidden *****ual practices”, where all the various forms of incestuous relationship are spelled out.
sorry, Leviticus – not Levi (we always called it that for short)
copperdragon: I use the Catholic Bible as my reference on this site – that uses the Septuagint conventions for the old testament:
1 Kings = 1 Samuel
2 Kings = 2 Samuel
3 Kings = 1 Kings
4 Kings = 2 Kings
Ernmas: that has been discussed on another list before – the idea of Lilith being the first wife of Adam comes from a medieval hoax written by a Jew which the other Jews rejected.
alexlwe: stating a different opinion or point of view with any superlatives of a deragatory nature is juvenile, and I will admit that i sometimes revert to stating my opinions very strongly. but I do believe I did not say anything overtly deragatory.
please keep in mind that such ideas as right and wrong, good and bad are a matter of personal opinion, and sometimes, of social opinion.
TRUTH is simply any idea that an observer accepts unequivocally and deems to be without fault… whereas FACTS are the result of painstakingly gathered information that is put under trial by scientific methods and deemed to be as accurate as humanly imaginable to the point that the discovery is made.
FACTS can change over time, with new technologies and old ideas that where once deemed accurate being disproved by modern ideas and new technologies.
Such thought on MORALS and ETHICS must be brought into play here, as well.
Morals seem to denote an underlying religious base, where a system of external punishment and rewards are bestowed upon a human for deeds committed.
Ethics, on the other hand, appear in all context to be a means of behaving by ‘the Golden Rule” if you will. From an evolutionary standpoint, “the Golden Rule” is very applicable and tantamount to an individuals’ survival and capabilities of finding a mate and passing on genetic code.
I do concede that animals posses a primitive form of ethics… in so much as they normally don’t go on rampages and completely obliterate other species for want of territory or food. sure, there is plenty of enter and inter species aggression for prime locations near food, mates, and shelter… but obviously animals managed well enough before Homo Eructus ever came around…
so…. here’s my take on this. (I even did a 12 page essay on this very topic for Religious studies a few semesters ago)
Religion and Science satisfy 2 different facets of the human psyche. Religion was what existed prior to science to explain the way the world around us worked, and to offer a form of governing to aid in the earliest of civilizations to control the masses. As cities matured, the rich and privileged where grossly outnumbered by the poor and servile. A means of eternal damnation, using the common pagan beliefs already in place incorporated into a religion consisting of a higher “Lord” than the one managing the land they lived upon, was necessary to keep the ignorant in a position of subservience. When the servants and serfs had little but the clothes they made and their miserable lives to look forward to, the drudgery in the fields and disease, religion offered hope for a better life after their death. But you couldn’t kill yourself to get there, because the LORD didn’t like that. You had to do your time here first to reap rewards later, all the while being a peasant.
Science strives to find the facts and piece together the beautiful mosaic of life and existence that surrounds us on so grand a scale, we are hardly able to fully comprehend it.
Remember-early scientists such as Galileo and Copernicus where almost executed for their scientific discoveries, and the Bible itself discourages reasoning for the very fact that with reason, simple antiquated belief systems fall apart.
okay. no more Monster energy drinks for me today.
ringtailroxy
S_R I wouldn't worry, none of it actually happened anyway. People, in order to help our children and future generations, we need to let go of the fairy tales we were taught and use common sense. I really do quetion the mental capacity of people who argue that God exists and created Adam and Eve, I really do. Even as a young boy i surprised I was being taught such obvious rubbish. think for yourselves people! please! you just end up embarrassing yourselves ie calling Jfrater an idiot, because you want to remain ignorant about the clearly vile things that happened in the bible.
You’ll know the Truth soon enough.
roxy: wow – well stated!
jfrater: just thought you might want to note it, for those who have different versions and went looking for it. i actually went to bible.com to find it.
I need to site down and read the bible one day, it seems like loads of fun. houkama I liked your quote
Ringtailroxy well said.
Site down, yeah thats what I need to do.
*idiot*
must be from Shelbyville
To those who think that the Bible is a good way to bring up children, I think not. The Bible may contain information about morality and sudden aspect of social ethics but it contains multitudes of contradiction, incest, homo*****uality, rape and murder which is unsuited for them. If you said that they should only read some parts of the bible then you agree that the Bible should not be classified as PG-13. Censoring the Bible is okay?
The Bible may contain information about morality and sudden aspect of social ethics but it contains multitudes of contradiction, incest, homo*****uality, rape and murder which is unsuited for them.
Scott – so does real life.
If you said that they should only read some parts of the bible then you agree that the Bible should not be classified as PG-13. Censoring the Bible is okay?
“Censoring” ? As with many aspects of real life, it’s about parents sheltering their kids; not censorship.
I always like the Bible lists…they always bring out the nuts…
Good list, BTW!
jfrater: there is still something wrong my profile
something about an error in the wordpress
i cant login
Ringtailroxy: You kick ass. I hope you drink alot of caffeine.
jFrater, you, sir, are an idiot. I only come to this site to read others’ lists because you sure like to tear apart Christianity in yours. You always take scriptures that depict the worst of human history and exploit it for what? Fun? Why don’t you include the context and the lesson it’s teaching us (as part of the whole).
Of course there’s all that stuff in the Bible. It’s the result of different laws in a different time in order to propagate humanity, and, outright sin. That’s life. That’s the lesson–mankind is sinful and needs a redeemer. It’s not censored but lays out what the human heart is capable of! And it ain’t pretty.
But why don’t you ever list the multitude of good things in the Bible?
As to those who suggest God created other humans, that’s wrong. If there were other humans, Adam’s sin wouldn’t affect all of mankind. But it does. Not only that, if you’re going to believe the Bible, mankind was created in a point in time of a single day.
As for why the Bible doesn’t mention other people, well, if it did, it wouldn’t be a single book (actually a compilation of 66 books), it would take up the whole world. It only mentions the people that were important to the plan of God.
And, of course Adam and eve had NUMEROUS children–God told them to replenish the earth–both before (probably) and after Cain and Abel. They’re mentioned because that was the first murder committed. Simple.
Maybe just to make things fair you could bash atheists sometime, or possibly muslims, or jews. ya’know just in case you want to keep your bigotry secret….
ringtailroxy, while I strongly disagree with your opinion, I really admire your writing style and your clear way of elaborating yourself.
Tonny SS 25th comment:
“What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish.”
..nicely sums up how I feel about religion.
its okay to express your opinion without name calling
S_R;
Jfrater is not an idiot. Quite the opposite. And I do believe he is/was Roman Catholic(?). I also am pretty sure he has studied theology.
He writes about what he knows. Ever noticed the music lists? He has studied classical music too. There are also lists about LDS (Morman) Beliefs (not written by him), and I’m sure if someone knowledgeable about the Koran, or Shinto, or whatever, submitted a quality list it would be published.
If you truly believe all the things you have written, then Sir, I’m afraid the shoe is definitely on the other foot.
IMHO: the bible lists are a bit played out:)
Oh, how i love to post comments where discussions are finished!! it’s just like having the last word!
)
) (jokes..)
S_R i agree with your comment about Adam and Eve having numerous children.. it would be a peculiar notion for God to say “Go forth and Multiply” for them to turn around and having only 2 kids.. weird!
With the aunty and nephew marriage thing, i live in australia, and i’m pretty sure it’s still legal to marry your uncle/aunt/nephew/neice.. which is weird, because you AREN’T allowed to marry an adopted brother/sister with no blood relation.. must be the reason why we can’t speak english properly, find it fun to hop around like kangaroos and eat crocodiles… GO AUSSIE!!
ringtailroxy: DUDE!! Lay OFF the caffine! ha ha ha.. no serious, it’s making you to be not very nice. Yep, Old-Testament God was a god of thunder, lightning hell-fire and brimstone and sure must have had a grand ol’ time smiting people.. cause he did it an awful lot! But then you have to remember that the New-Testament God (Jesus) came into this world as our SAVIOR (which if you break it down, means, “one who saves”) kinda handy to have God save us, especially from his own wrath. I came across an interesting piece of something the other day (not sure where i read it, but if i ever find it again, i will give FULL credit to the guy, cause it was VERY insightful) he said something about the reason that God doesn’t have the floods, or the wiping out of immoral cities etc, is because he has given us the sacrifice of His only Son, who died for our sins, both ones already committed, and ones we will commit, and this daily sacrifice made in the Eucharist, which continually renews our covenant with him, is what keeps his jealous anger at bay.
Anyway, jfrater.. great lists.. i think this kind of stuff is so intriguing!! if you didn’t have nasty stories, No one would read them!!
) Love ya work, keep it up!
no one has read your rant. Funny huh?
***** god and the bible. ***** religion all together.
in california there is no law prohibiting marriage and or ***** between blood related relatives but in arkansas and most other states there is a law. but for some reason in california we tend to make fun of people from arkansas by calling them imbred hicks or incestors
Another interesting thing about the bible is that it supports cannibalism. I will return later when i have found the page number for the next again. However I remember hearing a passage that said something like “when you are starving turn to your childs flesh for food.” Like I said i’ll return with the proper text and page number for you to see for yourself. The bottom line is all religions are *****ed up if you actually read their holy books.
You’re totally wrong: the Bible does not support/approve cannibalism in any way.
There are one or two places where it is written that, if the people of Israel won’t live by the Law given by God through Moses, their enemies will conquer the land, siege the remaining people in the cities and cut off their food supply, so that in their hunger, with nothing left to eat, in their desperation, some people will turn to eating their newborn babies.
Read Deuteromomy 28 for yourself, with a careful evaluation of verses 53 through 57, and judge for yourself: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=deuteronomy%2028&version=MSG
goof_ball: whatever do you mean?