Some time ago I read a fascinating article describing the experiences of MPs and soldiers who had been involved in interrogation against suspected terrorists in Iraq. The MPs and soldiers talked candidly about their methods when using “no-touch torture” – loud music and sounds designed to cause discomfort and prevent sleep. The soldiers listed their “favorite” music for interrogation sessions – and from that list I give you this list – the top 10 torture soundtracks.
The provocative music and singing style of Aguilera is the reason that it has been so popular with young MPs (Military Police) who were handling interrogation of suspected terrorists. It would go against the morals of the suspects (who would not approve of such outward displays of femaleness) while allowing the MPs to enjoy some “music from home”. It is not known whether Aguilera approves the use of her music for interrogation.
White America is Eminem’s take on American society and his rocketing to fame – which he blames on his white skin. The song criticizes various politicians and speaks out for suburban youths. The music style is most likely the reason for its choice in torture soundtracks as it would be very alien to the ears of most people under interrogation at the present time. The song was very popular in Canada where it reached number 3 on the charts.
The lyrics of this song are hardly provocative, so it is most likely that it was used because it was sung by the Bee Gees, and frankly, the Bee Gees music is torture even without lyrics. It may have also been seen to be ironic by the people performing the interrogation sessions due to its title. Forced to listen to the Gibb brothers for hours on end would make me confess to absolutely anything.
A lot of torture sessions involve(d) the use of music by Rage Against the Machine – an American rap cum rock group formed in 1991. Apparently the band members have some integrity, because as soon as they found out their music was being used in this way, they wrote to the State Department and demanded that it cease immediately. Whether or not that happened is unknown, but good on them for standing up and speaking out.
For the non-Americans amongst us (myself included), Meow Mix is a popular type of cat food in the USA. In 1970, Meow Mix launched a commercial which has now become iconic. The jingle was written by Shelly Palmer in 1970. The lyrics were, “I want tuna, I want chicken, Meow Mix flavors keep me lickin.” In commercials, it was typically meowed by a cat (often called “Mr Meow”), with English subtitles. This commercial is extremely popular in torture sessions – I am not sure why, except that maybe it becomes annoying in time, though it is also possible that it was simply used as it reminded the MPs of home.
You don’t need to be a terrorist to despise Country Music – millions of people everywhere do. It is likely that the majority of interrogation MPs dislike country music and that may explain the fact that it appears on a large number of interrogation soundtracks. I personally like a bit of country so it would not be tortuous for me, but played at sufficiently high a volume, I am not sure I would be too pleased with it.
America (or “They’re coming to America”) is the name of a patriotic song written and originally recorded by Neil Diamond in 1980. Its patriotic bent is the reason that it is so popular with interrogators. Interestingly, this song was added to the Clear Channel list of songs deemed inappropriate for broadcast after the 9/11 attacks in the US. Shortly after the attacks, Diamond changed the lyrics in live performances from “They’re coming to America” to “Stand up for America”.
Those here who knew children while Barney was a hit will well remember this terrible song. The Barney Theme Song was so hated amongst adults that it became something of an Internet Meme. For this reason I am sure most here will understand the reason that so many MPs would choose this music when supervising interrogation sessions. Against my better judgement I have included a video clip of it. Listen at your own risk.
Janeane Garofalo is a powerful Jewish American woman who does standup comedy that frequently refers to sleeping around and dating. You could say that she is the epitome of all that the “enemy” hates about America and its society. It therefore stands to reason that her stand up routines would frequently appear in torture playlists. Having said that, I am sure that if Sarah Silverman started her show a few years ago, she would be used instead. Personally, I find her amusing – but many people find her annoying. For your viewing pleasure I have included a clip of Janeane doing a standup routine.
Just when you thought Metallica couldn’t damage their reputation any further, the morons wrote to the State Department saying they were “excited” that their music was being used in torture sessions and said that they were “honored” to be contributing to the war on terror. Nice one guys. Now, I am not saying that the torture is wrong or evil (I am also not saying it is good) – what I do think is wrong is to publicly state that you are “excited” about it.
Contributor: Xanthius
So putting Hitler in jail would have been a reasonable response to the invasion of Poland by your reasoning?
Who mentioned jail? And are you seriously comparing a mobilised state military machine with a global network of terrorist cells? More to the point…you are disagreeing that justice should have been meted out to the 9/11 perpetrators? Strange…
And whatever the appropriate response to 9/11 should have been…invading Iraq was not it.
just being in the same room as a friggin american would be torture enough
I am beginning to feel being tortured by some self-centered comments here.
Segue: Certainly I would care to talk. Your natural anger and need for retribution and punishment to those responsible for 9/11 is entirely why society has rules. The problem isn’t that you are treating those responsible poorly, it is that the American’s are punishing those suspected of terrorism. Not those convicted. I haven’t even touched on the reprehensible policy of rendition. (Bill Clinton’s baby btw)
And how dare you say they aren’t being tortured. Do you not know that torture does not have to involve generators and pliers? Waterboarding is torture, sleep deprivation and sensory deprivation caused by continuous playing of loud cacophonous noise is torture. Like I said, you have little respect for human rights, unless of course they look and think like you. Sound at all familiar?
Mr. Plow: You quote Yoo, as justification for anything? There goes the rest of your argument. Justifying poor behavior by resorting to semantics and legality smacks as excuse making. Again I see a different set of standards for those who aren’t you. Hmmmm, I think I might have noticed something similar elsewhere, fairly recently.
Kiwiboi: Thank you for your learned replies to this foolishness. Common sense and the moral high ground will only get me so far.
Just for comic *****ing relief:
The Gilbert Gottfried Doubled Parallax Syndrome(GGDPS):
Just imagine being captured by allied forces and hooded and dragged and seated in the back of some cargo vehicle. Allright?
You think “o.k., maybe they are just going to drop me off outside their domain, their territory, their hood, and let me go with a few bucks in my pocket and bid me farewell.” …Yeh right.
Sometime later, after a terribly rocky ride, you are led into a cold room with a forty watt bulb hanging low and the smell of excrement in the already acrid air.
You are pushed down into a chair and secured to a pipe sticking out of the wall behind your back. You seem to be “roughed up” a bit, with a couple of blows to the head and gut.The hood is removed and you spit blood, and look up / find yourself alone shaking. Your eye swollen and sight blurrified. After you almost get your breath back, droolingly, you notice one thing peculiar in the small 12×18 “cell”. Over in the dark left side corner before you, is a figure standing still.
” Just like a movie I shall escape this ridiculous situation I have found myself in!” you find yourself thinking.
It moves slowly forward into the light .
The 40 watt circle seems to expand, but stays the same. The light seems to moves up to the face.
“No. It Can’t be….Is it?”
It is.
“Gi-gi-Gilbert Godfreed?!?”
A shutter wacks up through and through.
“IT’S GOTTFRIED!” he says
AND HE’s NOT SMILING.
Suddenly a loud crackle ricochetes off the walls.
Your head instinctivly darts in the direction above and you see the latest, fattest, and just downright super cool, concave supersonic speaker (sorry Woody N., I’m just foolin), right above your head. its the best of the best and can focus the sound waves into a thin beam, directed only within the spot you happen to be….The crackle skips and the your eardrums start tearing away,
” Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow, meow meow, meow meow!”
Gilbert walks slowly. He starts his “delivery skit”,
“Have you ever wondered that I would ever be paid to do this kinda *****? Forget those hose quickie duck commercials! AFLEK AFLEK AFLEK! Sounds like a kitty kat coffin up hair balls!..AFLEK! AFLEK!”
“Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow!”
p.s.
my apologies Meow Mix, you know I LLLUUVVV you.
Gottfried. Any time any where.
wouldn’t an airhorn suffice?
I think whatever current fad song that is “popular” on the radio at the time, is a perfect torture song
MOM…hey…settle down a little bit.
If you would read my earlier posts:
“Once again, i’d like to state that our current interrogation techniques and the policy governing these practices is something that does not in any way, shape, or form, sit well with me.”
So before you brand me some racist, apologist, torture loving, neocon, why don’t you bring yourself up to speed on the conversation.
It’s that knee jerk crap that makes these discussions get out of hand.
I am not trying to justify torture or OIF…I am simply giving you legal framework in which the US has used to justify interrogation SOP.
Yoo was one of a few legal experts employed by the USDOJ’s Office of Legal Counsel that helped pen what later became known as the ‘torture memos.’ Even though YOU may find his work discredited the US government does not, as a lot of the legal ‘cover your butt’ memos he helped pen are still in place.
Does my somehow posting this constitute my approval of torture?
I ask you to find one instance where I am defending torture in anything I have posted today…i’ve gone out of my way to state that I am not happy with the US position on what is and is not torture.
Call off your effin’ dogs, you’re no better than anyone else here.
No Celine Dion? WTF?! Just thinking of her makes me want to punch a puppy!
I kinda wonder what the terrorists would think about listening to the theme-song from Team America. Or just, you know, watching the movie.
Also, whoever thought Metallica was a good choice for torturing people deserves to have headphones glued to their ears and be forced to listen to Celine Dion on max volume for the rest of their lives.
Since I can’t edit…
I think it’s funny that a lot of people are mentioning Celine Dion in here.
Mr Plow (94)
The detainees we are discussing have been in fact declared non-combatants and therefore, the Geneva protocol you are citing are not applicable to them.
Two points that puzzle me with this apparent state of affairs.
1. If they are Non Combatants why are they being detained? If they are not Combatants and are not *innocent* non combatants then what exactly is their legal position?
2. It is illegal to torture Combatants but legal to torture Non Combatants. Is it only me that sees that as an illogical and even ludicrous situation.
Cheers
Lee
“rap cum rock group”
Wut? Cum?
get your mind out of the gutter Wut^^^ lol
wut: it is Latin – it means “with” – in this sense it means “rap with rock” or – rap and rock
Are you N.Z.guys telling me you would not do everything in your power up into and including playing loud and annoying music in order to find out and punish the people who bombed and killed 3000 citizens and caused unbelievable destruction to your largest city ? P.S. Im a democrat.
Referring to anything on this list as “torture” is an insult to actual victims of torture all around the world.
even though i don’t consider loud music to be ‘torture’, they’re clearly using it to annoy prisoners which i think is pretty immature whether they expect to get information or not. at the same time, terrorists have done much worse things to our pows than playing the bee gees, but regardless i don’t think we should use our enemy’s bad behavior to justify our own no matter how watered down our version may be. the USA has always tried to convey an image of treating people fairly and urging other countries to implement laws protecting human rights. we outlawed torture because physical or mental duress will make anyone confess to anything. this was proven during the salem witch trials and the inqusition so i don’t see why we decided to sweep all that under the rug because we left our borders and the people we captured weren’t americans. our domestic terrorists have gotten the same rights as our petty criminals; so what’s the difference in giving those rights to a non-american terrorist? if anything we view our own countrymen attacking us as much worse than a foreigner doing it. we did go into iraq under false pretenses. i think it’s silly some of you don’t want to admit our president lied to us. if he did admit he was just cleaning up his daddy’s mess then he should be punished accordingly for the laws he broke and the mess he made. as an american i don’t know why we must constantly act as if we have to police the world. i’m sure someone will say i’m unamerican for this comment, but who the hell is policing us? y’all act if if Kiwi is a terrorist sympathizer just because he/she has the guts to play devil’s advocate and not blindly believe that everything to USA does is right just because we say it is. the bush administration used 9/11 to tug at our heart strings and make everyone believe that if you didn’t support everything our government does that you must be anti-american, you’re one of ‘them’, you don’t support our troops or you don’t care that 3,000 people died for no good reason. no one denies that terrorists are wrong in attacking others just because they don’t approve of their way of life, but that doesn’t give us the right topple another country’s government and economy because we ‘think’ they’re up to no good especially when they didn’t even have anything to do with the attacks. i’m not saying they weren’t a viable enemy, but we can’t expect others to follow international laws if we won’t even do it ourselves.
I have commented on these lists quite a few times, and I never get any feedback or responses. I’m not *****ing or anything, but nobody responded to the real govt torture list with ‘Deicide – ***** You God’ as the number one song. That list has been out for a while. I love Death Metal, but it seems everyone is afraid to acknowledge it. It is okay. Death and demons consume everyone til they die.
i wonder if glen benton knows about it. now, he would be proud.
I HATE BARNEY!!!!!!!! I`m gonna have nightmares ,damn U BARNEY
1,000,000 green bottles sitting on a wall…
etc.
Metallica are a true shower of *****ers.
to all americans that think that torturing someone Iraqi insurgent is ok to obtain precious informations:
let me summariza in a few words what happened:
1)some bad guys, leaded by a crazy towelhead living in Afghanistan killed 3000 innocents in NY.
2) in retaliation, USA went to Afghanistan and killed over 3500 civilians along with 8000 soldiers
this, in my opinion, was well above tolerable, but, whatever..
3) unhappy with Afghanistan, USA decided that it was a nice idea to attack Iraq (the only mid-east country where religious fanaticals weren’t at the power and terrorists where unknown). In this smart move, almost 650.000 civilians were killed along with 30.000 soldiers.
sticking to numbers: the Nazis killed 10 innocent civilians for every german soldier, in retaliation. I see that USA went FAR above this 1 to 10 ratio.
nevertheless, I still see a lot of people that can’t see this madness.
I love enter sandman by metallica its a good song
You know, if I had the talent to produce music, I would be honored if it were used to help in the defense of this country. American torture is so much nicer than any of the other countries. I think our society has become so weak as to think parading a bunch of insurgents around naked is such an unspeakable horror. Our military uses far worse on our own men to aid them in case they are ever captured. Anyway, stop being so weak and be willing to cut a few branches to help the American tree to thrive.
Lee,
According to the US interpretation of the 4th Geneva Convention, the detainees are considered ‘unlawful combatants’ (as opposed to non combatants.)
With the ‘unlawful combatant’ status, detainees are not given the same protection that POWs have under the 3rd Geneva Convention. Instead, they are subject to the laws of whatever nation has detained them.
In the US, these detainees under law are not afforded the same constitutional protection under law that it’s citizens are given…instead they are in a gray limbo legally weird area…and yes, are subjected to what the Yoo’s ‘torture memos’ would consider ‘stress and duress’.
What the US is doing, is legal, barely. All it takes is a couple of court rulings to change what is going on right now.
Now before Mom jumps down my throat again accusing me of being some torture loving sadist…let me say that I am in no way approving of the US’s current stance on what is and is not torture, and in no way endorse many of our interrogation methods.
damn, Suskis! way to put it all into perspective by showing the casualties on both sides. i don’t think people want to see the madness. based on the usa’s history of fighting evil such as nazis, commies, and the japanese who bombed us first; we’re used to being right and everyone else being wrong. nobody wants to admit we *****ed up big time, especially the government and anytime someone wants to question them, they’re just gonna say something about 9/11. anyone see that episode of family guy where lois was running for mayor and instead of talking about the issues, she just kept mentioning terrorists and 9/11 and the people kept cheering for her? i think that’s a pretty fair representation of what’s really going.
I was kind of hoping to see “Stuck In the Middle With You” on here just because of that scene in Reservoir Dogs. It is a great song though.
Mr. Plow: By justifying the behavior you are in fact condoning it. Legality and morality are often mutually exclusive; after all it was quite legal to own slaves not that long ago. If you are truly disturbed by something or disapprove of something, one doesn’t generally look for a loop-hole to allow that same behaviour. Thus my ire.
Generally I try not to be quite so self-righteous; I have too many personal faults for that to fly; but in this particular instance I have no problem wrapping myself in that cloak. There is no justification for that type of behavior. None. Ever. It is what makes us the good guys.
Interesting;
Music that millions of people will willingly pay to listen to is considered torture.
Then again, I suppose there are those who enjoy having their nails pulled out or having large blunt objects thrust into bodily orifices. Some people have even agreed to be waterboarded.
Still, true torture is something that injures, maims, or kills.
You said, ‘Janeane Garofalo is a powerful Jewish American woman …’
And WIkipedia has this to say about her ‘Garofalo is of Italian and Irish descent.’ I bet I am not the only one confused.
Mr Plow,
Thank You for your answer, though I must confess the idea of Lawful and Unlawful Combatants strikes me as silly. I am sure Monty Python could have had a lot of fun with that idea
But then many things that the PTB do regarding warfare and politics puzzles me.
Cheers
Lee
amazing no one mentioned that Crazy Frog!!! has to be THE most annoying thing of the last 1000 years…..
Mom,
So using your logic, trying to understand the circumstances that led to the rise of Nazi power in the 30s and the war crimes they commited during WWII or trying to understand thier own justifications of these actions…is somehow condoing it?
Simply explaining something does is not approval, it’s asinine to think it does.
Are FBI serial killer profilers somehow complicit in mass murder becuase they seek to understand the criminal mind?
Are lawers and judges who seek to understand the motives and justification of criminals somehow approving of thier misdeeds?
Your assertation that I somehow approve of torture becuase I am trying to understand the legal justifications is nothing short of complete BS. Once again, get off your high horse, you are no better than anyone else in here.
I am impressed that metallica wanted their music played during interrogations and even more impressed that they didn’t demand to see a receipt for the black album. Long live napster!
Mom: For cryin’ out loud… get off Mr. Plow’s back already. I’ve just read the whole list of comments and finally registered just to write this (of course I’d been meaning to for a while, but never really felt the need to contribute). It is possible to understand and yes, even justify, an idea without agreeing with it or condoning it. It just means someone is actually thinking about it, rather than leave the thinking to others about whose agendas we may know nothing. There’s no substitute for thinking things through. And that means understanding the arguments of both sides before taking sides. If you want to ride someone for condoning objectionable practices, there are at least twenty far more deserving posters. I just don’t see Mr. Plow as meriting the moral accusation.
If playing country music can avoid 1 terrorist attack, they can have my whole collection.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!!!!!
Poor Skoalman – so bitter, so young, so confused. But the good news is, Metallica is still old-school!
This list and comments denotes an elitist smugness born of ignorance of the War on Terrorism and American culture in general.
1. Having been to Iraq, I can tell you that many of them are huge fans of American music. One of the biggest selling groups in the various markets is THE BEE GEES!.
2. Showing disdain for country music may be faddish in “enlightened” circles but the fact remains that the biggest selling artist of all time is A COUNTRY ARTIST and there are more country stations in the US than any other format. You can trash american culture all you want, but Baywatch and McDonalds have permeated the world not thru military force.
3. You neglect to mention the fact ( as well as much of the western media) that Saddam Hussein supported terrorism by paying $10,000 to the families of suicide bombers who attacked US and Israeli targets. You can discount the fact he had over 500 tons of yellowcake at Tuwaitha along with 100 tons of chemical weapons and still claim he was no threat to anyone becuase there is no evidence of weapons of mass distruction.
4. If you ask US soldiers Christian and Menchaca if they would rather endure Abu Ghraib of the fate they endured at the hands of the “unlawful combatants” you are screaming to protect.. what choice do you think they would make?
5. If those fighting the US invasion of Iraq are just defending their homes and the sovereignity of theur nation, why do they kill more Iraqi civilians than the coalition? Why to the local populaces fear Iraqi justice more than Coalition jusitice? Why do so many Iraqis want to come to the US? Why do the Kurds want the US to build permanent bases in the north of Iraq?
Try some black metal that ***** is crazy
How about Lil Markie?
That guy is just about all I can handle…
This list and comments denotes an elitist smugness born of ignorance of the War on Terrorism and American culture in general.
“elistist smugness” / “ignorance”? LOL!!
Having been to Iraq, I can tell you that many of them are huge fans of American music. One of the biggest selling groups in the various markets is THE BEE GEES!.
What was that you said above about “ignorance” of “American culture”? Because someone should tell you that the Bee Gees are NOT American, for a start. Secondly – and more to the point – do you really think that the choice of music matters when the reason behind the music (*any* music) is torture by way of sleep deprivation?
You neglect to mention the fact (as well as much of the western media) that Saddam Hussein supported terrorism by paying $10,000 to the families of suicide bombers who attacked US and Israeli targets.
So, you are saying that some headline-gaining payments to Palestinians (the vast majority, by the way, being families who suffered losses due to Israeli shelling) merits a full-on invasion of Iraq? Firstly, nobody has ever pretended that Sadaam was a friend of the US. But, as you have this fixation with payments to sponsors of terror, perhaps you can tell us who exactly was funding the Taliban to the tune of some $5bn in the 1970′s and 1980′s; or who was remitting tens of millions of dollars to the Afghanis as recently as 2001 as an “opium subsidy” (hint : US Govt). Even Condoleeza Rice has admitted that US funding was likely being channeled into terrorist coffers.
Better still, take a look at who the members of OPEC are and what their record on state-sponsored terrorism or terrorist sympathies are, and what the price of oil has been for the past couple of years. Now, take a look in the mirror next time you are filling your vehicle with gas – like it or not, the face you see in the mirror is a key contributor to the funding of global terrorism.
You can discount the fact he had over 500 tons of yellowcake at Tuwaitha along with 100 tons of chemical weapons and still claim he was no threat to anyone becuase there is no evidence of weapons of mass distruction.
Now you are starting to sound foolish. The whole world (aside from a few conspiracy nuts) knows that the yellowcake you refer to was put under UN control after the *first* Gulf War, and that any that was greater than industrial grade (ie. potentially useful for weapons) was promptly transported to Russia for de-purification. Sadaam was, indeed, a tyrant – but there were no weapons of mass destruction for the inspectors to find; and even Tony Blair has basically admitted this.
If you ask US soldiers Christian and Menchaca if they would rather endure Abu Ghraib of the fate they endured at the hands of the “unlawful combatants” you are screaming to protect.. what choice do you think they would make?
Are you incapable of discriminating between the *innocent* people we have been discussing amd those who are actual combatants/terrorists?! No right-thinking person can condone such atrocities as experienced by those poor guys. But affording human rights to everybody does not preclude justice being done; if anything, it enhances it.
If those fighting the US invasion of Iraq are just defending their homes and the sovereignity of theur nation, why do they kill more Iraqi civilians than the coalition? Why to the local populaces fear Iraqi justice more than Coalition jusitice? Why do so many Iraqis want to come to the US? Why do the Kurds want the US to build permanent bases in the north of Iraq?
None of this has anything to do with the reasons for or the legitimacy (or otherwise) of the invasion of Iraq.
Ok, first off: Soulja Boy is HELL!! Right behind it is Country Music/ Barney Song (your pick) and then add whatever you want after. LOL on the Metallica XD
kiwiboi(166) Saddam Hussein may not have ever been our ‘friend’, but we (the US) certainly did support him and his regime during the Iran-Iraq war in the early 1980′s. Oh the joy…
the hamsterdance…
kiwiboi, you got old dude claiming The Bee Gees as American Culture.alf1369 how dare you,their from Australia! Although during the late 70`s if you didnt listen & know how to dance to disco music you went home ALONE. Props! Take a pill man dont let the stupid things the U.S does make you do so much research & fretting about it.We`ll police the world yall kick back and do what you do.No one is ever gonna try to attack you or take over your country as long as the U.S. is around.Right?
Having the U.S. around is like having a big dumb over muscular brother around to look out for you when a bully is around. You keep him in his place and make fun of him till you need him !!
It always irks me when people try to pass off other countries’ torture methods as excuses for U.S. behavior. I so much as mention Abu Ghraib or the internment of Japanese people in America during WWII, and someone jumps down my throat with a “well, if you haven’t been to another country/ seen firsthand how bad torture can be, you have no basis to talk!”
Really people… I do not, and will never, deny that other countries do have and have had horrifying methods of gaining information. But, that does NOT wipe America’s hands free of thier own amount of blood, and that does NOT justify our own brands of torture.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It is what so many humans tout as what separates us from animals.
Saddam Hussein may not have ever been our ‘friend’, but we (the US) certainly did support him and his regime during the Iran-Iraq war in the early 1980’s
JayArr – true; but, to be fair, if a week is along time in politics, 20 years is a lifetime in international geo-politics. But, as the French like to say : plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. Maybe rather than “follow the money”, in this case we should “follow the oil”.
Take a pill man dont let the stupid things the U.S does make you do so much research & fretting about it.We`ll police the world yall kick back and do what you do.No one is ever gonna try to attack you or take over your country as long as the U.S. is around.Right?
bigski – research? This stuff is common knowledge. As for the rest of your comment, I don’t know you well enough to judge whether or not you are being flippant, so I’ll assume that you are.
Really people… I do not, and will never, deny that other countries do have and have had horrifying methods of gaining information. But, that does NOT wipe America’s hands free of their own amount of blood, and that does NOT justify our own brands of torture.
Anon E. Mouse – well said. Interestingly, despite the legalities of the applicability of the Geneva Conventions (in comments above) Colin Powell kind of echoed what you are saying (“do unto others”) – albeit from a practical perspective – in stating that he thought the Conventions should apply to enemy non-combatants because how else could the US demand the same treatment be reciprocated to its own troops.
However, this topic invariably polarises people. And, it should be emphasised, nobody is picking on the US here (despite the preamble to this list) – this particular discussion evolved that way in response to issues raised by a guy in the US military; I’m a dual NZ/British citizen, and I can tell you that the Brits are no poster boys for human rights either.
Kiwiboi, you need to check your timeline a little better. “One week”?? Break, one each…give me! Try from 1981 through 1988. My unit nearly went to Iraq as a support/observer unit during the ‘tanker war’ portion of that war… But, nuff said. We’re way off topic for this list anyway. G’day!
Kiwiboi, you need to check your timeline a little better. “One week”?? Break, one each…give me! Try from 1981 through 1988.
JayArr – are you serious? When I wrote “a week is along time in politics” I was not being literal; I am well aware of the general timeline of the Gulf War.
I was quoting a famous statement made by British Prime Minister Harold Wilson some 30 years ago.
Let me point you in the right direction :
“A week is a long time in politics”: this signifies that political fortunes can change extremely rapidly.
Source (about half way down the page) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson
“Gulf War” – oops; should have said “Gulf Wars” or, more specifically “Persian Gulf War”.
kiwiboi, sorry, your metaphor was lost on me there. And my reference was to the Iran-Iraq war, not any of the Gulf Wars.
JayArr – My fault…I probably shouldn’t have assumed that an American would necessarily recognise the quote (though I’ve heard American reporters use it). As for the terminology, the Iran-Iraq conflict (which I was aware you were referring to) is commonly known as the Persian Gulf War (per my clarification in #176).
And whilst I should have avoided the term “Gulf War”, I was using it generically. Even the redoubtable wikipedia would probably forgive me this transgression; here’s what it says :
“The [Iran-Iraq] war was commonly referred to as the Gulf War or Persian Gulf War until the Iraq-Kuwait conflict (Operation Desert Storm Jan-Feb 1991)”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
Anyway…this is a minor matter; we were both talking about the same thing.
Out of interest, JayArr, are you still in the forces?
kiwiboi, I got out in ’98. My wife was a major contributing factor to that decision… after nearly 14 years.
“This commercial is extremely popular in torture sessions – I am not sure why”
You’re not sure why? I thought it was annoying to listen to that once, imagine what it’s like to listen to that over and over for (possibly) hours on end. I imagine I’d throw up or something after about 5 minutes of that.
Hey kiwiboi if your gonna quote me put everything I said, not just parts of it for dramatic affect.I was just conversing American style. I got love for all yall! Peace out!