The Middle Ages spanned roughly from the 5th century to the 16th century – a total of 1,100 years. During the time following the Middle Ages (which is often referred to as the Enlightenment), the previous millennium was criticized and condemned – just as we now condemn the actions of some during the Victorian Period (sexual prudishness for example). Many of the writers of the newly invented Protestant movement harshly attacked the Middle Ages because of its Catholicity. Unfortunately many of the myths and misconceptions that sprung up at the time are still believed today. This list aims to set things straight.
Myth: The death penalty was common in the Middle Ages
Despite what many people believe, the Middle Ages gave birth to the jury system and trials were in fact very fair. The death penalty was considered to be extremely severe and was used only in the worst cases of crimes like murder, treason, and arson. It was not until the Middle Ages began to draw to a close that people like Elizabeth I began to use the death penalty as a means to rid their nations of religious opponents. Public beheadings were not as we see in the movies – they were given only to the rich, and were usually not performed in public. The most common method of execution was hanging – and burning was extremely rare (and usually performed after the criminal had been hanged to death first).
Myth: Bibles were locked away to keep the people from seeing the “true word”
During the Middle Ages (until Gutenberg came along) all books had to be written by hand. This was a painstaking task which took many months – particularly with a book as large as the Bible. The job of hand-printing books was left to monks tucked away in monasteries. These books were incredibly valuable and they were needed in every Church as the Bible was read aloud at Mass every day. In order to protect these valuable books, they would be locked away. There was no conspiracy to keep the Bible from the people – the locks meant that the Church could guarantee that the people could hear the Bible (many wouldn’t have been able to read) every day. And just to show that it wasn’t just the Catholic Church that locked up the Bibles for safety, the most famous “chained bible” is the “Great Bible” which Henry VIII had created and ordered to be read in the protestant churches. You can read more about that here. The Catholic diocese of Lincoln makes a comment on the practice here.
Myth: The poor were kept in a state of near starvation
This is completely false. Peasants (those who worked in manual work) would have had fresh porridge and bread daily – with beer to drink. In addition, each day would have an assortment of dried or cured meats, cheeses, and fruits and vegetables from their area. Poultry, chicken, ducks, pigeons, and geese were not uncommon on the peasants dinner table. Some peasants also liked to keep bees, to provide honey for their tables. Given the choice between McDonalds and Medieval peasant food, I suspect the peasant food would be more nutritious and tasty. The rich of the time had a great choice of meats – such as cattle, and sheep. They would eat more courses for each meal than the poor, and would probably have had a number of spiced dishes – something the poor could not afford. Wikipedia has an interesting article here which describes the mostly vegetable and grain diet of the peasants in the early Middle Ages, leading to more meat in the later period.
Myth: Peasants had thatched roofs with animals living in them
First of all, the thatched roofs of Medieval dwellings were woven into a tight mat – they were not just bundles of straw and sticks thrown on top of the house. Animals would not easily have been able to get inside the roof – and considering how concerned the average Middle Ager was, if an animal did get inside, they would be promptly removed – just as we remove birds or other small creatures that enter our homes today. And for the record, thatched roofs were not just for the poor – many castles and grander homes had them as well – because they worked so well. There are many homes in English villages today that still have thatched roofs.
Myth: People didn’t bathe in the Middle Ages, therefore they smelled bad
Not only is this a total myth, it is so widely believed that it has given rise to a whole other series of myths, such as the false belief that Church incense was designed to hide the stink of so many people in one place. In fact, the incense was part of the Church’s rituals due to its history coming from the Jewish religion which also used incense in its sacrifices. This myth has also lead to the strange idea that people usually married in May or June because they didn’t stink so badly – having had their yearly bath. It is, of course, utter rubbish. People married in those months because marriage was not allowed during Lent (the season of penance). So, back to smelly people. In the Middle Ages, most towns had bathhouses – in fact, cleanliness and hygiene was very highly regarded – so much so that bathing was incorporated into various ceremonies such as those surrounding knighthood. Some people bathed daily, others less regularly – but most people bathed. Furthermore, they used hot water – they just had to heat it up themselves, unlike us with our modern plumbed hot water. The French put it best in the following Latin statement: Venari, ludere, lavari, bibere; Hoc est vivere! (To hunt, to play, to wash, to drink, – This is to live!)
Myth: Peasants lived a life of drudgery and back-breaking work
In fact, while peasants in the Middle Ages did work hard (tilling the fields was the only way to ensure you could eat), they had regular festivals (religious and secular) which involved dancing, drinking, games, and tournaments. Many of the games from the time are still played today: chess, checkers, dice, blind man’s bluff, and many more. It may not seem as fun as the latest game for the Wii, but it was a great opportunity to enjoy the especially warm weather that was caused by the Medieval Warming Period.
Myth: The Middle Ages were a time of great violence
While there was violence in the Middle Ages (just as there had always been), there were no equals to our modern Stalin, Hitler, and Mao. Most people lived their lives without experiencing violence. The Inquisition was not the violent bloodlust that many movies and books have claimed it to be, and most modern historians now admit this readily. Modern times have seen genocide, mass murder, and serial killing – something virtually unheard of before the “enlightenment”. In fact, there are really only two serial killers of note from the Middle Ages: Elizabeth Bathory, and Gilles de Rais. For those who dispute the fact that the Inquisition resulted in very few deaths, Wikipedia has the statistics here showing that there were (at most) 826 recorded executions over a 160 year period – from 45,000 trials!
Myth: Women were oppressed in the Middle Ages
In the 1960s and 1970s, the idea that women were oppressed in the Middle Ages flourished. In fact, all we need to do is think of a few significant women from the period to see that that is not true at all: St Joan of Arc was a young woman who was given full control of the French army! Her downfall was political and would have occurred whether she were male or female. Hildegard von Bingen was a polymath in the Middle Ages who was held in such high esteem that Kings, Popes, and Lords all sought her advice. Her music and writing exists to this day. Elizabeth I ruled as a powerful queen in her own right, and many other nations had women leaders. Granted women did not work on Cathedrals but they certainly pulled their weight in the fields and villages. Furthermore, the rules of chivalry meant that women had to be treated with the greatest of dignity. The biggest difference between the concept of feminism in the Middle Ages and now is that in the Middle Ages it was believed that women were “equal in dignity, different in function” – now the concept has been modified to “equal in dignity and function”.
Myth: People in the Middle Ages believed the earth was flat
Furthermore, people did not believe the Earth was the center of the universe – the famous monk Copernicus dealt a death blow to that idea (without being punished) well before Galileo was tried for heresy for claiming that it proved the Bible was wrong. Two modern historians recently published a book in which they say: “there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference.”
Myth: People of the Middle Ages were crude and ignorant
Thanks largely to Hollywood movies, many people believe that the Middle Ages were full of religious superstition and ignorance. But in fact, leading historians deny that there is any evidence of this. Science and philosophy blossomed at the time – partly due to the introduction of Universities all over Europe. The Middle ages produced some of the greatest art, music, and literature in all history. Boethius, Boccaccio, Dante, Petrarch, and Machiavelli are still revered today for their brilliant minds. The cathedrals and castles of Europe are still standing and contain some of the most beautiful artwork and stonework man has been able to create with his bare hands. Medicine at the time was primitive, but it was structured and willing to embrace new ideas when they arose (which is how we have modern medicine).
Contributor: JFrater
An interesting concept to make a list about….
…But I do agree with above, I disagree with the women thing…women were probably treated with respect in a community, and women would run the home, but under laws and in court, women would be nothing.
In fact, if a woman got married, all her belongings would pass to her husband. This law was in place for centuries in fact and was only repealed after the Harriet Staunton case.
Actually, an interesting fact about the Middle Ages was that women did not take the name of their husband. Also, there are different census taken during the time period that shows women as breadwinners and shop owners. And a final point can be made about the Churches marriage laws during the time which were actually more lax then they are now as they knew marriages were used for political purposes and have always stressed the freedom between the two people.
JFrater: Wait wait, wait! We can't just generalize 1,000 years of history just like that! This had already happened with a previous Middle Ages list you'd done before (Top 10 reasons the Dark Ages were not dark).
There were THREE different Middle Ages:
The Early Middle Ages,
The High Middle Ages,
and the Late Middle Ages.
What this list is doing is generalizing the Middle Ages to mean just the Early and High middle ages.
How is that a bad thing?
Well, the Early and High Middle Ages were fine (as the list roughly describes), but the Late Middle Ages were absolutely terrible, barbaric, and miserable!
How so? Well, for starters, you got the brutal Inquisition, when there was indeed extreme violence everywhere due to Catholicism, and lots of stake burning without fair trials (such as for saying that the Earth wasn't flat!). Also, Europe suffered a situation of overpopulation, which led to great poverty and terrible famines. Not only that, but later the Black Death hit, which effectively killed half of the population with its gruesome disease.
This whole situation also led to a period of great poverty, superstition, and ignorance. There were many violent peasant revolts, not to mention the many great wars that occurred during that time. Some even call this the Crisis of the Late Middle Ages.
So it would seem (although I'm no expert), that the Late Middle Ages is from where all these myths come from, but sadly, many of them are not myths, they were terrible realities back then.
The Inquisition had nothing to do with saying the Earth wasn’t flat… no one was ever burned at the stake for saying such a thing, because most people back then knew the Earth wasn’t flat. Further, out of the thousands upon thousands of trials that took place during the Inquisition, very few- in relation to the number of trials, that is(less than 10,000 if I’m not mistaken)–ended in the defendant being executed.
Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revision_of_the_Inquisition
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_died_from_the_Inquisition
And the Black Death really only had three major outbreaks, one of which (the most famous) happened in the latter half of the 14th century.
Actually the Inquisition was not nearly as bad as people think, as it states in the list. An important thing to realize about the Inquisition is it did not have any power over professed Jews or Muslims, only Catholics. Also, one of the proceedings of the Inquisition was that the accused had to write out a list of his known enemies, if any of these were 1 of the 3 accusers the case was thrown out.
About the Great Famine and Black Death, or Great Mortality as it was called at that time. True there was over population because of the lack of farming technology, but this was not the cause of it. It was the Little Ice Age that caused the famine and this helped in the spread of the subsequent plague. Also, think about it from our modern perspective if there was a disease we knew nothing about and it killed one third of our population we would get pretty freaked out over it. Think of it in terms of a Zombie Apocalypse.
And of course there were revolts and wars, but remember the first war to be officially called The Great War did not take place until the 20th century, and that was only the first of 2 World Wars, the second one only the the Great Mortality did more damage to the human species.
So sure there were things going on during the Middle Ages that weren’t good, but in reality we can’t really say its any worse than our own present age.
Oh, so it’s fine to kill people because they were a specific religion, but if they had just been killing people for their actions it wouldn’t have been ok? Humm… Let’s think about this…
Bob:
Surrrrrre, Bob, stop believing professors…. and what then? Stop believing books? What do you do, channel your info from the spirit of some 1200 year old Viking named Magnus?
I must agree with this as I have had multiple professors who were unnaturally biased on one topic or another. In taking their classes, I learned less than my fourteen year old brother who was doing his own research at home. Professors may learn a lot in college, but I have had several of them inform me personally that they do change a lot for their lectures. So, yes, believing everything a professor tells you is not always the best thing to do. You have to do your own research as well or you’ll only learn one thing. It is the same as every other topic. American professors will only share what we are allowed to know because of basic laws and rules just as European professors and everyone else will do. You have to look at more than what one teacher says, as the years progress in particular. What was written in a book twenty years ago is not necessarily going to be true as we find out more information. Books make mistakes, and professors teach these mistakes.
great list!
great mythbuster !!!
http://funjaabi.blogspot.com/
An interesting list. I was taken in by several of those lists.
man, the things that happen when i stay up until 4 am…
…yeah, i don’t have a lot going on
Redcaboose: I hope you mean you were taken in by several of those “myths” not “lists”
Regarding no.9, there is still a myth in my country(India) that the language Sanskrit was forbidden to be spoken by some lower caste people(in middle ages).
jfrater: You keep cranking out excellent lists! You’re on a roll! I love this list, and it’s always fun to learn new things. History is one of my favorite subjects.
An interesting addition to the ‘burning @ the stake’ mention up there.
Very VERY few ppl who were sentenced to be burned @ the stake actually burned alive (There’s only 2 or 3 documented cases where its said the crowd could hear the screams of the accused etc.). Generally what happened (and the fire was set in a way FOR this to happen) was that the accused either lapsed into unconsiousness or death due to smoke inhalation long before the flames reached him or her.
Or (this was sometimes done as a ‘favor’ to those to be executed) small bags of gunpowder were tied in the armpits and groin of the accused so that they would go off in the flames and hasten the accused’s death.
yea pointless trivia but hey thats what this site is all about
Women who killed their husbands were generally burned; the crime was considered to be one of the worst and was called "petty treason" due to the woman killing her lord and master. The women were not hanged first as it was considered indecent for a woman to be hanged cuz then people could look up her skirt; they were generally strangled or garrotted first.
In one such case of a petty treason execution, the woman was going to be strangled first but the executioner burned his hands so was unable to complete the task.
Theres like an obsession with the Middle ages on this site. Not that I’m complaining. I’ve learned a lot today! : )
give me a time machine. middle age sounds fantastic.
what an informative list. well done!
Soon, Jfrater will know all the secrets of the universe. And then he’ll make a top ten list and share them with the rest of us. I hope..
Well well… The Middle Ages spans over almost 1000 years.
From the end of the last Western Roman Emperor in 476 to approximately 1500 (sometimes we consider 1492 to be the end of the middle ages).
So things have changed over these 1000 years, and it is a little excessive to consider the Middle Ages as a whole, homogeneous…
For example, the tradition of hygiene dates back to the romans who had an extensive use of public baths. And yes they were clean. But it is said the catholic church considered these places to be places of sin (and they were not totally wrong since many of those public baths had more or less turned into *****s), and had them closed.
So the people were probably cleaner in the beginning of the Middle Ages and dirtier in the end. I have read description of the french royal court under Henry the IVth (~1600) or Louis the XIVth (1650-1700), that is after the Middle Ages, and it seemed really awful !… I ever wonder how people could actually survive with such filth !..
Love the list, but I have to disagree with a couple of things. The one about women not being oppressed isn’t exactly true. They had a respected place, its true, but under law they had little rights. There were few cases where a woman could own property, and if crimes were committed by or against her, she was dealt with differently than if she were a man.
The examples you point out are by far the minority. These were special women who stood out in history as being vastly different from any other woman, and should be treated as such.
The following link is a great source for medieval history, we use it in all my courses at uni. Not specifically relevant, but if you are ever looking for supporting primary sources, its awesome!
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/Sbook.html
Another thing is just the crude and ignorant thing. The majority of the people didn’t have access to education, and like you pointed out in the locked books thing, couldn’t read. It was only the secular and noble classes that had access to education. It is true however that this is the period in which universities were being formed, for which I am very happy with!
I think the violence everywhere myth has some basis in the truth, if only in the law codes. Especially early in the period, a lot of justice was carried out locally, and would involve a (very complex) code of punishments. This could involve things like…well, its too much to list, look for yourself;
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/560-975dooms.html#The%20Laws%20of%20%C3%86thelberht
I’m always happy to see medieval related lists here, keep it up!!
Great list! Working in an Irish Viking/Medieval centre means we get a lot of people who have all these preconceptions about life in these times so we have to explain the truth to a lot of people. Oh and I presume you meant Elizabeth I in number 3 (sorry to be that corresctive nerd….).
Somehow, I don’t want to view peasants from the middle ages as clean, well-fed people. It kinda takes away from the charm.
And I agree with warningdontreadthis. It’s gonna be awesome.
“It may not seem as fun as the latest game for the Wii, but it…”
Well I’m pretty sure almost anything is more fun then using a Wii…sorry but it had to be said.
I completely disagree with #3. As Penguinball said, women had very few legal rights during the Medieval times, and the examples you cite defy the norm. So few women from this time period made it into the history books because the majority stuck to the societal norm of not making a mark on the world outside their home. The role of mother and homemaker was indispensable then, as it is now, but any woman who stepped outside that role was seen as a deviant and a rule-breaker. Sounds like oppression to me.
Well then why did some do so? The only reason so few did was that they wanted to do what was expected of them. The same is true today but the expectations are different.
I LOVE LISTVERSE!!!
great list ! thank you
Weak list imo because there are no sources given.
3) You name Elizabeth II as an Example but I think you mean Elizabeth I which died in the early 17th century. That mean she does not really belong in a Middle Age List
Barabas i shall cast you down in the feiry depths of hell!! how dare you speak like that to the great jfrater
Thanks jfrater for “lighting up” my mornings at work
arnaud
Technically the middle ages didn’t span 1000 years.
the period from roughly 1000 AD – 1200 AD was technically considered the ‘dark ages’ not the middle ages.
and thats all i remember from my ancient history course lol.
Sorry but as Arnaus said it is hard to say something general about a 1000 year era without giviing any sources.
1) “Science and philosophy blossomed at the time – partly due to the introduction of Universities all over Europe.”
A University in the Middle Age was really really small (often just around 10 students). Education was avaible only to the aristocrats. Most people could not even read.
Boethius 5th-6th century (not really Middle Age)
Boccaccio, early Renaissance
Petrarch, early Renaissance
Machiavelli clearly Renaissance. The prince is a book about political theory so it is cleary not from the Middle Ages.
So the examples given are really weak. better ones for intersting of the middle ages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meister_Eckhart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aquinas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism
)
Scholasticism was the dominant form of theology and philosophy and it was pretty much about repeating stuff that was already written down.
(sry for wiki Links, but the better ones I have are in German
4) Do not forget that the Crusades also started because the pope wanted to stop feudes in Europe! We have lots of unemployed knights at that time in Europe. After the Crusades in the holy land Crusaders conquered party of eastern Europe pretty much just to have something to do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights#Russia
6)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death#Signs_and_symptoms
Sure some people did bath but keeping water in a city is not cheap and a lot of Roman knowledge was lost so how could the mass have access to clea water? Might be that I am missing something but I just can not see how this worked O_o
Might want to fix #3. I know Lizzy 2 is old, but I didn’t think she was *that* old…
loves it
Long time reader, first time poster, thanks, for hours of countless enjoyment! You will be seeing plenty of me in the future.
As so many are saying, you’re on a roll, JayFray! There are times when Listverse is such a treasure chest of the unexpected. I see more and more “list” sites being trucked out on the net, but they just don’t have the depth, the spark, the literacy — well, hey, they don’t have you, Jamie. Plus the community around the site — so many good commenters.
Once again another great list. I never realized how my view of the middle ages is so wrong. Of course never really reserched it to much
Like others, I have to disagree with the item about women.
And I’m pretty sure the Inquisition was pretty horrible for those involved, too, so let’s not downplay that too much.
I’m worried about the dating here, too. There is no universally agreed end to the Middle Ages. Pointers were the fall of Constantinople, the end of the Hundred Year’ War, the development (in Europe) of printing, the end of the War of the Roses, the uniting of the Spanish crown, the expulsion of the Moors from Spain, the voyage of Columbus and the Protestant Reformation. Generally, the latest date for the end of the Middle Ages has to be 1517, which means that Elizabeth I doesn’t belong here.
“The inquisition” is possibly a misconception of its own. There were “inquisitions”, of which the Spanish one is most famous, but this was not founded until 1478, by any calculation right at the end of the Middle Ages. The Roman Inquisition, which morphed into the current-day Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, wasn’t founded until 1542.
I heartily recommend the first 8 items of http://listverse.com/music/20-great-choral-works-from-before-1750/ as background music for this list.
I wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquisition!
yaaarrhh!!! Monty Pythons!! thanxxx!!! ^^
How true all these are. Yet sometimes we forget all the great deeds of the middle ages and begin to think that they were all barbaric
This is another great list. I learned some new things. I guess Monty Python and the Holy Grail shouldn’t have been my main reference source.
A little addendum to what I said: There were many Inquisitions during and after the Middle Ages, and although it wasn’t as bad as the later Inquisitions (such as the Spanish Inquisition), the Medieval Inquisition was still pretty bad, especially because the Pope at that time (Innocent IV) approved the use of torture by inquisitors (with the “Ars Exstirpanda”).
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Kreachure,
You said: “How so? Well, for starters, you got the brutal Inquisition, when there was indeed extreme violence everywhere due to Catholicism, and lots of stake burning without fair trials (such as for saying that the Earth wasn’t flat!). Also, Europe suffered a situation of overpopulation, which led to great poverty and terrible famines.”
Most scholars say that the death toll for the Spanish Inquisition was between 3000-5000 and in fact it was the state that carried out the punishment, not the Church. While one death is one to many and in no way do I defend the acts that did take place, the idea that there was “extreme violence” from Catholicism is still old propaganda stemming from the protestant reformation. Protestants had their own “inquisitions” and acts of violence during that time as well.
JFrater are you out of your mind?
‘Given the choice between McDonalds and Medieval peasant food, I suspect the peasant food would be more nutritious and tasty.’
This is totally untrue. If these peasants were presented with a hot batch of salty fries out of the deep fryer, they would do what we all do, go with the extra large combo and walk around the rest of the day in a sluggish near coma. For the love of Pete, those things drive me into a feeding frenzy! Have you ever had the Sausage McMuffin? Oh my Gaaawwd! It’s so delicious I think it’s made out of heroin mixed with chocolate fudge with candy sprinkles!
Uh, let’s see I can either have a hot steaming bowl of gruel with a few bits of salted pork blubber and wash it down with the ale of the day which was probably mixed with cow dung, or I can have a Chicken Select sandwich with 5 pounds of hot fries and a giant coke to boot, hmmmmm, let me see. Oh and I can get a deep fried apple pie? Well I love me some mealy gruel and I love chewing on gristle, but I gotta go with the Micky D’s combo!
What’s that? I can get that 60 seconds after I order it? What? I can have Bacon on it too? Slather it up in some spicy Mayo? Whereas the hot gruel has been boiling inside a iron pot since they replaced the last Pope and the brew can also be used for axle grease?
Wow, that’s a hard choice . . .
You are so right.
It is funny how things swing from one extreme right to the other.
SO, we were misguided by how the Middle Ages were so awful. Therefor the Middle Ages were an almost golden utopia.
What a fascinating list! Although I have to agree that the women cited in the example where the exception, not the norm.
31. McSquida: True, but I think what Jamie was trying to convey is that there is a myth surrounding the Inquisition that makes it out as much more bloody and widespead than it actually was (look up the Black Legend or La Leyenda Negra regarding the Spanish Inquisition).
This stuff is all good to know, but I kind’ve wish all these myths were true. The violent, starving, dirty Middle Ages seem a lot more fun than the one described here.
I thought this list would be boring but it was very entertaining. However, it is a very general list of what is considered the “middle ages” because as other as already pointed out, the later part of the middle ages were some of the most violent and harshest times in history.
39. Steelman: Well said.
Kreachure: As I said in my above post, there is now a concept called the Black Legend that seeks to clear up the misconception of the brutality of the Spanish Inquisition. It was partly English propaganda in the time of Elizabeth I created to foster national unity against a “common and brutal enemy”.
Were are the sources? This whole list does not seem to be very trustworthy without a link to your sources. I’m not saying you made this stuff up, but how can we be sure…
Anyway, jfrater, I have to say that this is now one of my favorite lists! I will not longer be doing any actual work as I will spend the rest of the day researching this stuff. Thanks!!
*sighs happily and hopes not to get fired!*
Can somebody educate us more as to when are the years of middle ages? Especially those early,high, and later middle ages.
Jfrater:
Jamie, you’ve really got a thing for the Middle Ages, don’t you?
This, along with your other recent lists, is both VERY good and very well researched… so kudos for that… however…
Far be it for me to accuse my virtual friend Jamie of being a tad… biased… shall we say… but you know… well… bucslim alone has already pointed out one big overstatement here.
I mean, let’s remember that the “Middle Ages” comprises a vast span of time… in essence from around AD 550 or so (with the fall of the Roman Empire in the west) to around, arguably, AD 1400 or so (with the beginnings of the Renaissance). Almost 900 years. The so-called Dark Ages run from around AD 550 to, oh… say, AD 800 or so. Around the time of Charlemagne–which is generally believed, with good reason, to be the conclusion of the dark period.
Hardly a homogenous stretch of time then. SOME of the Middle Ages were clearly nasty and brutish, and the privation and suffering was terrible. Also, clearly, some of it was not. Particularly after the conclusion of the two or three centuries of the “Dark Ages”, and particularly in courts, in places like Burgundy, for instance–things could be downright pleasant. But for all the sundry serfs and peasants all over such a vast area as all of Europe, with all its varying kingdoms and fiefdoms and whatnotdoms? Nah, come on… in GENERAL we have to say it was still not the happies time to be alive.
We have a tendency, we Moderns, to hate our own times, (with good reason) and to have this innate cynicism about ourselves and our lineage and particularly about our future. But this is because A) we gained a consciousness of a sort that allowed us to feel indignant about conditions around us (which took time to build up and affect any change in said conditions) and B) because the TWENTIETH century was such a godawful time of horror, wholesale murder and misery. All true. But has the period since the Enlightenment really been all that bad? Well… yes and no. But were the Middle Ages all that great, either?
It just shows that we can’t generalize. Would I choose to live in Stalin’s Russia in the 30s, or Nazi Germany of the same period, vs. living in, say, a Burgundy fiefdom of the 1200s? Well… I’d probably pick the 1200s, to be sure. But America in 1800 vs. a district on the Rhine in 1300? Nah… no choice. I’d take America in 1800 any day.
Which is not to say that I think you’re claiming to PREFER the Middle Ages. I’m just trying to put this into perspective.
Cleanliness in the Middle Ages? Amongst the rich and powerful, sure. Amongst the peasantry? Not so much. Amongst the FRENCH? Never. Is there a dirtier people on this Earth, at least in the developed world? Even today? I speak jokingly of course… but only partly. I’ve known my share of French citizens, and I’ve known my share of non-French Europeans who share the judgement. The Swedes think the French and the Dutch smell.
But seriously… your point about Copernicus leaves a little tidbit out. He wasn’t punished because he waited until he was about to DIE before he published his views on the heliocentric solar system. He then proceeded to cack out, death being a good enough excuse (but not always) from persecution by the church. There’s little doubt that had Copernicus published sooner, with no such caution, that he would have suffered the same choice Galileo later was offered, which was not a nice one. Again, yes, at varying times in the Middle Ages there was some intellectual freedom. But it depended on the times, the individuals, and what was being talked about. What Peter Abelard got away with for a time would NOT have been excused a hundred or so years later. Let’s remember that Giordorno Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy, for instance, for simply asserting certain truths about the nature of the heavens. It was okay, then, to perhaps split hairs about theology on this or that tenent… but to go against policy outright remained dangerous WELL into the Renaissance.
Emar – middle ages refers to the time in your life after you hit 30 until 55. Early middle age would be 30-39 right before you first divorce, High would be 40 to 45 when you start smoking pot again and acting all cool to attract younger ladies, and late would be 46-55 when you start developing ‘Crusty Old Bastard’ syndrome where you start eyeballing the products in the bladder control section at Walgreens.
Glad I could clear that up.
For #1, I’d suggest using not Elizabeth I, but her father, Henry VIII. He started the religious killings, especially monasteries, as he switched religions. And then her sister, Queen Mary, upped the ante considerably more.
bucslim:
You totally forgot the period of conspicuous consumption when you buy many expensive toys in the futile hope of stemming the aging process. Sports cars, dick boats, etc. Or, as in my family, the spectre of my 50-something brothers and brother-in-law all buying matching Harleys. One of my brothers had a 65 Mustang, when he was about 20 or so (this was in the early 70s) which he fixed up and was his chick magnet car. Then, with the onset of marriage, he drove Oldsmobiles and the like, for years. Now all of a sudden he has a Harley. Gee. I wonder who’s feeling his age?
The manifestation of this in MOI appears to be developing into the desire to move to bigger and bigger sailboats. But this is also the onset of incipient indolence, because I’m tired of being cramped and wet every time I go out for a little jaunt on the lake.
lol @ Number 10
I’m ready, JFrater, Top 10 Secrets of the Universe….GO!
Emar:
See my post #48. The Middle Ages run from about AD 550 to about AD 1400 or so. The first two or three hundred years of it is what is called the Dark Ages, and was in large part a very nast time to be a western European.
Randall – I hear ya brother. I’m on the verge of returning to my roots as well. When I was in college I had a Datsun 280z which I had to tearfully trade in when the kids came to roost. Now that I’m divorced, one of my goals is to slide back into one of those or get the boner inspiring new 370 Z.
Then the hot chicks will sprint towards me!!
Here’s the breakdown by years.
- Early Middle Ages: 500-1000 AD
- High Middle Ages: 1000-1300 AD
- Late Middle Ages: 1300-1499 AD
Now, for comparison:
- Black Death: Started around 1345
- Joan of Arc: 1412-1431
- Copernicus: 1473-1543; proposed Heliocentrism in 1514 (So, technically after the Middle Ages)
- Hundred Years’ War: 1337-1453 (conflict and famine reduced France’s population by two thirds)
haha it’s great to see the crazies come out and try to prop up their old strawman of the Dark Ages, isn’t it? Face it–the Middle Ages were more civilized than we are. Stop believing what’s spoon-fed to you by your professors.
What’s with all of the fake Randall posts?
lol.. “dick boats”
A professor I had for Shakespeare/Renaissance Drama/Elizabethan Lit (yes, those were three separate classes and because it was the same teacher, I wrote three separate papers) who would start off every first class with facts about the middle ages into the elizabethan era. We talked about the bear baiting and the *****s and how crude and uncultured and squeamy it all was, and how we were so glad we’re above all that as a society. However, I do believe there’s a good portion of today’s society that enjoys fighting and boobs. We aren’t as cultured as we think. At least we don’t throw feces in the street anymore.
bucslim:
What’s with the fake posts? (Notice there was one for Jamie as well) Obviously doughy 15 year olds who can’t get girls and take five minutes out from their non-stop video gaming to amuse themselve by hijacking aliases on the net.
I’d like to know why something can’t be set up to reject submissions by people who try to use a moniker that’s already taken. I mean, it asks for our names AND our emails, after all… why can’t it reject a post if the two don’t match? Why not something that pops up and says, “sorry, that username is taken” and rejects the comment?
JFRATER/CYN/MOM/DANGOR:
PLEASE note posts 63, 55, 51, and 50. I hate to harp, but if you have the time, let’s get this ***** deleted, please. And please see my note to bucslim at #64. Is something like this possible?