This list is a response to the one published a couple of days ago with the topic of ’10 great moments’ in American history. A lot of people objected and asked for a list with ’10 worst moments’ in American history. So here it is, just to present both sides of American history, good & bad. It is in chronological order and if you have any suggestions to make, feel free to do so & constructive criticism is appreciated while argument for the sake of arguing will not lead us anywhere. Anyway, here it is:
The Trail of Tears was the relocation and movement of Native Americans, including many members of the Cherokee, Creek, Seminole, and Choctaw nations among others in the United States, from their homelands to Indian Territory (present day Oklahoma) in the Western United States. The phrase originated from a description of the removal of the Choctaw Nation in 1831. Many Native Americans suffered from exposure, disease, and starvation while en route to their destinations, and many died, including 4,000 of the 15,000 relocated Cherokee. By 1837, 46,000 Native Americans from these southeastern nations had been removed from their homelands thereby opening 25 million acres for settlement by European Americans
The Dred Scott Decision was a decision by the United States Supreme Court that ruled that people of African descent imported into the United States and held as slaves, or their descendants—whether or not they were slaves—were not protected by the Constitution and could never be citizens of the United States. It also held that the United States Congress had no authority to prohibit slavery in federal territories. The Court also ruled that because slaves were not citizens, they could not sue in court. Lastly, the Court ruled that slaves—as chattel or private property—could not be taken away from their owners without due process.
The battle of Antietam, fought on September 17, 1862, near Sharpsburg, Maryland, and Antietam Creek, as part of the Maryland Campaign, was the first major battle in the American Civil War to take place on Northern soil. It was the bloodiest single-day battle in American history, with about 23,000 casualties. The Union had 12,401 casualties with 2,108 dead. Confederate casualties were 10,318 with 1,546 dead. This represented 25% of the Federal force and 31% of the Confederate. More Americans died on September 17, 1862, than on any other day in the nation’s military history. Several generals died as a result of the battle, including Maj. Gens. Joseph K. Mansfield , Israel B. Richardson and Brig. Gen. Isaac P. Rodman on the Union side (all mortally wounded), and Brig. Gens. Lawrence O. Branch, William E. Starke on the Confederate side (killed).
A massive drop in value of the stock market helped trigger the Great Depression which lasted until the increased economic activity spurred by WW2 got us going back in the right direction. The Great Depression had devastating effects in virtually every country, rich and poor. Personal income, tax revenue, profits and prices dropped, and international trade plunged by a half to two-thirds. Unemployment in the United States rose to 25% and in some countries rose as high as 33%. Cities all around the world were hit hard, especially those dependent on heavy industry. Construction was virtually halted in many countries. Farming and rural areas suffered as crop prices fell by approximately 60 percent.
The US government came to the conclusion that interning Japanese-American citizens was the best of a number of bad options. Roughly a hundred thousand Japanese-Americans ended up in camps. U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt signs Executive Order 9066 on February 19, uprooting Japanese Americans on the west coast to be sent to Internment camps. The order led to the internment of Japanese Americans or AJAs (Americans of Japanese Ancestry) in which some 120,000 ethnic Japanese people were held in internment camps for the duration of the war. Of the Japanese interned, 62% were Nisei (American-born, second-generation Japanese American and therefore American citizens) or Sansei (third-generation Japanese American, also American citizens) and the rest were Issei (Japanese immigrants and resident aliens, first-generation Japanese American).
A decision was taken to drop atomic bombs on Japanese civilians killing roughly 200,000 people in total to ‘shorten’ the war. ( It completely ignored the fact that war is between armies, not civilians). On Monday, August 6, 1945, at 8:15 AM, the nuclear bomb ‘Little Boy’ was dropped on Hiroshima by an American B-29 bomber, the Enola Gay, directly killing an estimated 80,000 people. By the end of the year, injury and radiation brought total casualties to 90,000-140,000. Approximately 69% of the city’s buildings were completely destroyed, and about 7% severely damaged. On August 9, 1945, Nagasaki was the target of the world’s second atomic bomb attack (and second plutonium bomb; the first was tested in New Mexico, USA) at 11:02 a.m., when the north of the city was destroyed and an estimated 40,000 people were killed by the bomb nicknamed “Fat Man.” According to statistics found within Nagasaki Peace Park, the death toll from the atomic bombing totaled 73,884, as well as another 74,909 injured, and another several hundred thousand diseased and dying due to fallout and other illness caused by radiation.
Kennedy’s decision to go forward with the invasion and then deny them air support doomed the entire enterprise to failure. Today, 44 years later, Fidel Castro, a diehard enemy of the United States, is still in power. The plan was launched in April 1961, less than three months after John F. Kennedy assumed the presidency in the United States. The Cuban armed forces, trained and equipped by Eastern Bloc nations, defeated the exile combatants in three days. Bad Cuban-American relations were made worse by the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. The invasion is often criticized as making Castro even more popular, adding nationalistic sentiments to the support for his economic policies. Following the initial attacks by 8 CIA-owned B-26s on Cuban airfields, he declared the revolution “Marxist-Leninist”. There are still yearly nationwide drills in Cuba during the ‘Dia de la Defensa’ (Defense Day) to prepare the population for an invasion.
The United States entered the war to prevent a communist takeover of South Vietnam as part of their wider strategy of containment. Military advisors arrived, beginning in 1950. U.S. involvement escalated in the early 1960s, with U.S. troop levels tripling in 1961 and tripling again in 1962. The war exacted a huge human cost in terms of fatalities, including 3 to 4 million Vietnamese from both sides, 1.5 to 2 million Laotians and Cambodians, and 58,159 U.S. soldiers. The Case-Church Amendment, passed by the U.S. Congress in response to the anti-war movement, prohibited direct U.S. military involvement after August 15, 1973. U.S. military and economic aid continued until 1975. The capture of Saigon by North Vietnamese army in April 1975 marked the end of Vietnam War. North and South Vietnam were reunified the following year.
Terrorist madmen attack the Twin Towers and Pentagon, kill nearly 3000 Americans, and set off a war on terrorism. (Some accounts suggest it was an inside job, or a horrific case of neglect). Afghanistan invaded to destroy the groups (Taliban & al Qaeda) America itself made, trained & armed to fight the Russian invasion. The campaign is still going on and has spilled into neighboring Pakistan, India & Iran, highlighting the inability of American forces to contain the war. The initial attack removed the Taliban from power, but Taliban forces have since regained some strength. T he war has been less successful in achieving the goal of restricting al-Qaeda’s movement than anticipated. Since 2006, Afghanistan has seen threats to its stability from increased Taliban-led insurgent activity, record-high levels of illegal drug production, and a fragile government with limited control outside of Kabul
The ‘Invasion of Iraq’ on the basis of alleged reports saying Iraq possesses WMD’s. Nothing found but hundreds of thousands of lives shattered. Bush later admitted that “[my] biggest regret of the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq. In 2005, the Central Intelligence Agency released a report saying that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq. The invasion of Iraq was strongly opposed by some traditional U.S. allies, including France, Germany, New Zealand, and Canada. Their leaders argued that there was no evidence of WMD and that invading Iraq was not justified in the context of UNMOVIC’s February 12, 2003 report. On February 15, 2003, a month before the invasion, there were many worldwide protests against the Iraq war, including a rally of three million people in Rome, which is listed in the Guinness Book of Records as the largest ever anti-war rally. According to the French academic Dominique Reynié, between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 protests against the Iraq war, but the decision remained & Iraq was invaded.
McCarthyism is the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence. Originally coined to criticize the anti-communist pursuits of U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy, “McCarthyism” soon took on a broader meaning, describing the excesses of similar efforts. During the post–World War II era of McCarthyism, many thousands of Americans were accused of being Communists or communist sympathizers and became the subject of aggressive investigations and questioning before government or private-industry panels, committees and agencies. Many people suffered loss of employment, destruction of their careers, and even imprisonment. Historian Ellen Schrecker wrote that “in this country, McCarthyism did more damage to the constitution than the American Communist Party ever did.”

























November 29th, 2009 at 1:46 am
It makes one wonder if it had been a “greatest moments in European history” list if people would have cried about it until they made a “worst moments” list.
America sucks amirite?
November 29th, 2009 at 1:48 am
Horrible list. By the way, american forces in Vietnam never lost a battle. With proper support from the nation at home, the war could have been easily won.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:56 am
Also, I’d like to be the first to state the fact that had the USA invaded japan in world war 2 the death rate would have increased by 2 or 3 million. Soo in contrast 500,000<3,000,000. I don't understand why McCarthyism is a bonus… That's by far one of the worst things that has happened in American history.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:00 am
Interesting list, but are the sentiments that created it purely ‘list-making’ or ‘Let’s have a pop at Yankee man’?
I hope it’s not the latter.
(I’m not American btw, just don’t want to see the site fall down into a slagging pit)
November 29th, 2009 at 2:01 am
the nuclear attacks on japan were what cemented the united states as world power because it gave them the biggest punch of the group. to say it was a bad moment is entirely wrong. it was a bad moment for japan but to be honest the way japanese treated people during the war…OH WELL. war is war. the treatment of native americans is nothing different than any other world power did to a native race. iraq and vietnamt should not be considered bad because it was merely a case of an army fighting a guerilla people and so how do you win? stock market…well that was bad for everyone. the civil war was self induced so suck it up. any treatment towards blacks was just another case for the times. to look back and say it was wrong was to not understand the times. just wait till 60 years from now what people will say about the injustice of these times. the only bad moment would really be 9/11 due to the fact it was the first actual attack on american soil. you wanna talk bout a bad time, how bout when ur white house burned to the ground.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:07 am
how about the entire civil war??? not just antitem
November 29th, 2009 at 2:09 am
The USA are a bunch of clowns it has to be said. If America was a person, that person would be a whopping douchebag.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:12 am
@gh0st (3): Hey!! That is extremely racist!! Don’t post your stupid & disgusting remarks on here, obviously just shows how ignorant you are.
@#7 – “paki” is a derogatory word for a Pakistani.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:12 am
Re no.10…the war in Iraq was not a matter of necessity, but of choice.
Unlike most other foreign wars in which the United States became involved, the invasion of Iraq was not preceded by an attack on this country or on one of its allies.
Talk of the US secret service…what can one expect of it…it doesn’t even know the who’s who at the Prez’s dinner.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:12 am
Excellent list. There are some minor grammatical and syntactical errors, but no biggie.
I think this is a very fair list, regardless of whether you’re an American liberal or a conservative, or not an American at all. Of course, people WILL bitch about this list, because people on the Internet just love to bitch.
Oh, and I know people are going to bitch about the ordering. IT’S IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, PEOPLE.
Oh, and I’m guessing it won’t be long before someone argues November 4th, 2008 (or perhaps January 20th, 2009) was the worst moment in US history.
*sigh*
November 29th, 2009 at 2:16 am
@Emmett Brown (12):
Thank you for your insight. [/not]
@Jack (13):
I sincerely doubt it was racist in nature. The only people that particularly dislike Pakistanis are Indians. I can’t imagine anyone else in the world – American or otherwise – having a specific dislike for Pakistanis.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:17 am
Me thinks that ghost is an astonishing idiot..having no other intentions other than spreading hate n filth..get lost moron..listverse is no place for you
November 29th, 2009 at 2:24 am
Wheres Tuskegee? The KKK? LA Riots? Oklahoma bombing? Waco?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:24 am
@Emmett Brown (12): Sorry but USA literally controls the world and it is the only superpower today…whether you like it or not,the lives of many people in the world depend directly or indirectly on what USA thinks and acts.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:25 am
To me the racist and hateful group the KKK and the atrocities they committed is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to the US.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:27 am
Am I the only one that noticed Obama is not on this list?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:29 am
Also, the dropping of the bomb was probably the most morally courageous act a President has ever made EVER. If the US hadn’t dropped the 2 bombs and instead invaded Japan the fanatical Japanese would have fought to the last man, killing hundreds of thousands of US soldiers. Dropping the bomb was the lesser of 2 evils and a totally justifiable act.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:29 am
I consider our bombing of Japan to be one of our finest moments alongside the interment camps being one of our worst.
And since the Natives weren’t really using the land for progressive action, I don’t consider booting them off the land to be a negative (were they more advanced, they may have survived)
The great Depression was necessary under the circumstances but could have been avoided. Frankly, government interference in the economy causes more problems than it prevents.
I can agree with #2 and #9 (and the bonus) but beyond that, I find the list fairly naive.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:30 am
this list really says something about humanity. and especially white people. i just ask myself, how can one group of people decide that another group is soo evil, that the only way to handle them is to completeleey exterminate them, discounting the fact that they cant even defend themselves against you.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:32 am
oh, and still have the peace to sleep at night. i just know that if it was me, i couldnt kill someone for no reason.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:33 am
excellent myth-busting article about the vietnam war:
http://www.lindasog.com/military/vietnam.htm
November 29th, 2009 at 2:35 am
@Giantshredder (21): YES you are.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:43 am
McCarthyism is at it’s fullest in china…
November 29th, 2009 at 2:44 am
December 13, 2000
November 29th, 2009 at 2:50 am
The worst moment in American history is when this list was published!!!!!!!!!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
November 29th, 2009 at 2:51 am
Taaz doesn’t like white people. lol.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:00 am
I guess we could add the attitude towards Latin America as a whole.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:07 am
If Japan had ended WW2 by obliterating LA and San Francisco, would anyone hail it as “a morally courageous act”, or would it be decried by what was left of the USA as the two biggest single acts of mass murder in the history of the world?
November 29th, 2009 at 3:18 am
My friends,war is always tragic and it is humbling when one thinks that no weapon ever created by the mind of man has been too terrible to use on our fellow man. We Americans faced a difficult choice in 1945. While the atomic bomb was built to be used on Hitler’s Nazi war machine they were beaten before the weapon was finished. There was a strong chance that the bomb would never be used, and then the invasion of the territorial islands of Japan occured. Any fair minded reading of the Battle of Okinawa will show that nearly 1/4 of the Okinawans were killed and nearly 90 percent of their building were destroyed. After three years of intense war the battle hardened leadership of the American Army,Navy, and Marines were looking at the soul chilling realization that invading the home islands of Japan would mean casualties in the two to four hundred thousand range. The decision to use the atomic bomb was not made lightly, nor was it made solely on the basis of saving American lives. Would Japan have recovered as quickly as it did to take it’s place in the first rank of civilized nations if America had to wage an Okinawa-style invasion? As an American and a human being I take no pride from knowing only my nation has used this weapon in war. Can we not, as we are all brothers and sisters, dedicate ourselves to making the world a place where people of differenct beliefs and faiths can live togeter in mutual respect and peace?
November 29th, 2009 at 3:20 am
All great nations have “worst moments.” the united states of america is no different. But neither is britain or spain or china. And a great deal more. @ 23 you are a parasite quite obviously. only a cancerous little growth would veiw the slaughter and mis-placement of native people compared to the betterment of europeans as nothing. lol so very european of you. shall i slay some natives for you pleasure my lord? worm….
November 29th, 2009 at 3:26 am
@Gregory (18):
Tuskegee is hardly a “moment”.
@Gregory (20):
The KKK is hardly a “moment”.
@ULMFLB (33):
Neither is that a “moment”.
@taaz (24):
You’re incredibly ignorant if you think such things have been restricted to only white people.
@astraya (34):
Go ask some Chinese who had relatives from World War II what they think.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:27 am
Only 10?
Quite a fair list.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:29 am
dont know about its authenticity but i am hearing that 9/11 was done by american goverment itself?? cant it not be said that the worst moment of american history was caused by american goevernment? I may not be correct…i am just saying wat i have read on internet
November 29th, 2009 at 3:30 am
@BravehisTickle (19): have you ever heard of china?? Well just look whats written on about everything you own.
I would agree with gregory about the kkk but i would also include nixon as a bonus and probably the support given to dictatorial regims just to spike ussr. Pretty good list. And america’s finest was a good list as well. I dont think love for ones country means that we have to agree with all the bad policies that country has supported
@jfrater: hey what about those submarine stories??
November 29th, 2009 at 3:31 am
after apologising, for not finding any WMD, to the world and to the iraqi civilians, is america going to repay the damages it has caused in the country?
November 29th, 2009 at 3:35 am
Wow, the comments…
The list is ok in my opinion, but my knowledge of the USA is not terribly big, especially pre-1900 history… so I can’t say whether this list is ‘true’. Regardless, worst/best lists are and will always be biased, so…
November 29th, 2009 at 3:35 am
Americans are dumba*ssws. Its simple and I am american and I am native american. I think the trail of tears is the saddest but maybe because I am judging how stupid it is to make people leave their own land so some snooty a** peopple can raise their ignorant a** kids. Look what america is @ now. Its s sh*t.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:44 am
@Arsnl (40):
Aaaargh. What’s with the submarine stories dude??
November 29th, 2009 at 3:56 am
@El the erf (44): jfrater once said that he was trained by an ex-nuclear submarine commander and that he told some great stories. I think it would be interresting to read about them. This guy runned such complex system. You dont get many chances to hear about these things
November 29th, 2009 at 4:00 am
where’s dubiya?
November 29th, 2009 at 4:00 am
How can you have a list on the worst moments in American history and not include the assasination of your own president???!!
Unbelievable!
November 29th, 2009 at 4:04 am
@Giantshredder: I’d love to hear you say that where it counts.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:06 am
I wonder if those people who claim the atomic bomb was justified have an informed opinion on Nagasaki as opposed to Hiroshima. At a stretch, the latter could be justified, but the former was an act of mass murder with no reasonable justification.
Incidentally, the only remaining sticking point at the time on a surrender treaty was the position of the Emperor and some Korean territories. This idea that the Japanese would have “fought to the last man” is a myth peddled so people can sleep at night.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:17 am
I like cake
November 29th, 2009 at 4:30 am
good list! americans have some really shitty moments in their history.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:36 am
“How can you have a list on the worst moments in American history and not include the assasination of your own president???!!”
one man as apose to the injustice many people and races have had to endure to poor government decission really dosent stack up in my opinion
November 29th, 2009 at 4:45 am
What about the time when Fonzie jumped the shark? That was a pretty awful moment.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:57 am
May this murdering nation hang its head in shame! (unfortunatly its not the only nation to have to do this but it is the ultimate evil member of the gang)
November 29th, 2009 at 4:59 am
@Giantshredder (21): +1 for this. )
@Chris (49): Dropping atomic bomb on Japan was justified. It’s just too very easy now to judge people who did it. But they’re was strong men, not like today, all humanist and weak (arab-terrorists are good guys, let’s talk with them, and they will understand.) Sure…
I hope they’ll do the same with Iran.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:02 am
Can I say that I was really against america after the nuclear bombings (which I don’t think is jusified at all and is the worst thing in us history) but all these american hating people online you all a bunch of wankers yes america has lots of faults (which some americans can’t seem to admit) but so does every other country in the world
Why can’t everyone just calm down you know everyone thinks raciasm is bad but no one thinks that hating a specific country is bad…I think they are about equal
Cheers
November 29th, 2009 at 5:02 am
@Arsnl (40): Me is not talking about what one is owning or the market as you are implying..but in general the whole situation of the world and the lives of the people are intertwined with the decisions of USA
@Chris (49): Me thinks you are right,the second dropping of the bomb was in fact
‘targeted mass murder’ ..so there you are.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:02 am
the columbine massacre.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:05 am
@Ba5tarD (55): You are a fascist bigot and pseudo- patriot..bet if you were attacked you’d turn tail and run away..humph..to talk of brave,strong men..
November 29th, 2009 at 5:12 am
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me!
November 29th, 2009 at 5:16 am
Haha, it didn’t take that long for someone to post this list.
I must say despite the perception that it was hastily written (as it was posted right after the heels of the other list)this list is nonetheless fairly well researched for the (controversial) topic at hand.
Not bad.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:17 am
@BravehisTickle (59): I spend 3 of my army years in Gaza and saw a lot of stuff. And I didn’t “turned my tail and run away”. So actually I’m fascist Israel agressor. And before that I saw another war – in Karabakh, when I was about 9 years old. Call me as you wish. I don’t give a fuck. But if you’re blaming U.S. for dropping those bombs, I don’t think you’re actually remember what WAR is.
P.S. And yeah, I start every morning with a big hot cup of Palestinian’s babies blood. It’s like energy drink, you know.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:21 am
@max (41):
America has already funneled billions and billions of dollars into Iraq. Even when we didn’t even have any money back home.
@Jessica Rabbit (43):
Why should we listen to a self-proclaimed dumbass such as yourself?
@amadee (54):
I’d like to know what country you’re from.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:24 am
I don’t like the way you biased assholes on here judge america knowing that if it wasn’t for us a lot of you would still be third world countries.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:26 am
especially the british with all the atrocities your own country has.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:26 am
@Ba5tarD (62): Yer going to Hell,ye miserable pathetic man remember this..ye may think it as a joke and snigger and snort all you want at what I say..anyways it’s not your fault,your parents brought you up like this..
as aunt marge says-’when somethin’s wrong with the bitch you can’t blame the pup.’
yeah and if you think that’s offensive look at your own statement..
November 29th, 2009 at 5:28 am
With em comments it is clear that world is still divided on the basis of colour,hate still exist.Americans have never fought a war on their own land,so they are just ignorant about it all.In Iraq millions of homes have been destroyed n small childrens r deprieved of even the basic,em are falling in the trap of those islamic fanatics n a whole new american hating generation is growing in that nation.It just doesnt matter but yes iam a paki n u all racist can go ahead n sue me,like i give a f.peace
November 29th, 2009 at 5:29 am
Great list but why the racist comments and hate? If you don’t got love for humanity you don’t even have space to love yourself.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:32 am
@calm_incense- I am from a murdering war mongering nation also.
The fact that anyone from any nation of any age group is trying to justify ANYTHING on this list is deeply disturbing and extremely backward.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:33 am
This list could go on and on…(including the moment this list was published!). Japanese werent the only ones placed in interment camps, Italians were also. And Iraq had plenty of time to move the WMD’s to Syria… 9/11 should’nt be included, everybody knows the U.S. government is involved.. Adolph Hitler did the same thing in order to invade Poland…he bombed his own news station and blamed it on Poland… Two jews put billion dollar insurance claims on the twin towers just 3 months before 9/11. Dropping the bomb on Japan shouldn’t be on here either…and Arsnl, enough about the stupid fucking submarine stories!!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 5:35 am
@BravehisTickle (66): As I understand from your comment, you’ve got nothing to tell me…anyways it’s not your fault,your parents brought you up like this.
And, yeah, I’m going to Hell, and I really like that. And you are just stupid short-sighted biomass.
Oh, god, how I love this blog! Thank you, 7raul7.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:35 am
And the Patriot Act should be on here…Domestic Spying ???
November 29th, 2009 at 5:38 am
I guess you could call this a thought provoking list, however it’s turning out to be more of a hate list based on the comments.
Knowing the author of this list (from previous comments made on other lists) also set a “tone” right from the begining. Re-reading the wording used on the attack on 9/11 shows that facts were intertwined with biased opinions. I can’t say that this is a good list or a bad list because of how it was written. Very sad.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:44 am
could you have perhaps have meant events? many of these arent moments.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:45 am
also if you think hiroshima and nagasaki were bad for america you should ask the japanese.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:51 am
EVERYTHING is biased dude. Objectivity is a platonic ideal.
But still, america’s a pretty fucked up place, glad this list was made, i was starting to think listverse was all patriot bullcrap
November 29th, 2009 at 5:54 am
I think this is a very well thought out list but there is no doubt any list like this will be controversial. I think the displacement and treatment of the Natives as a whole was absolutely horrendous and the same for the treatment of slaves and it also saddens me to this day that people still try and excuse the dropping of the atomic bomb.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:54 am
@Kidd (67):
“Americans have never fought a war on their own land”
I’m curious where you think the American Civil War was fought…
@amadee (69):
The fact that you’re “deeply disturbed” by the relatively mild comments on this list reflects your naivety more than anything else. The real world is much scarier than ListVerse.
@Miss_Info (72):
I’m guessing the Patriot Act hasn’t affected 99.9% of Americans. Unless you’re planning to commit a terrorist attack, the US government doesn’t really give a damn about your boring-ass phone calls.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:58 am
@tayka (77):
Just curious, how many Nanking Massacres would it take to justify an atomic bomb?
November 29th, 2009 at 5:58 am
@calm incense: THE POINT BEING is that you have lost so many rights, ones that other people around the world DO enjoy, but you don’t even care anymore. So in your opinion it isnt extremely fucked that they can put you in a jail without ever committing a crime? Americans always crack me up
November 29th, 2009 at 6:00 am
Saddam Hussein was a tyrant and oppressor. Nobody enjoys war, and if they do their not human. That being said, Saddam Hussein needed to be dealt with and the United States took on a task that many nations(France, Im looking at you) were too scared to take on themselves. If you want to be a world power then you have to accept the responsibilities of a world power. That means protecting those who cannot protect themselves. No one should/could argue that the oppressed Iraqis didn’t deserve a chance at freedom just because they aren’t American and the cost of freedom may be American lives. No life is more important than the others no matter where you come from. I used to be proud to be an American and in some ways I still am but the more I look at the American people and their values I become more and more disgusted. So many people preach from their soap boxes of world peace and harmony for all but dont have the intestinal fortitude to take things into their own hands. It’s disgraceful.
Even when recognizing that the ousting of Hussein was a project with great intentions you cannot ignore the fact that American politics derailed what should have been a quick undertaking. In no way was George Bush solely to blame for the debacle in the Middle East….The US Government is to blame. Congress screwed this up when they didn’t allow the Generals to have everything they asked for because it would cost too much money. If you cant afford to put whatever money is necessary into a war then you shouldnt be going to war. Even as I write this I find it incredibly difficult to keep a clear mind from all the rage that builds up when I think of how ludicrous our government is.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:01 am
@ calm_incense: how about condemning that shit all together, no matter what country or what race or what type of trousers are worn, instead of trying to find out how many bad things are plausible to result in another bad thing
November 29th, 2009 at 6:03 am
@ badlist: so euh…you still think that’s the reason iraq was invaded? Really?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:06 am
@79
I don’t think anything justifies killing and maiming hundreds and thousands of INNOCENT people. Im sure if it happened in the US you wouldn’t try excuse it.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:06 am
America is a leader of sorts…no disputes here.
But a leader leads by example.
The dropping of the bomb was a bad one alas.
Did it not lead to more than one nation vying to achieve the status as the most powerful in the world??
Now when the world is swept by a refreshing change in the American approach towards its and the world’s troubles, a real example from a real leader is on the cards.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:06 am
@ #6.
Yep Yep And Yep.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:10 am
@ Hunter.
Im not that naive there were plenty of reasons to invade. That being said, don’t think for one second Im not going to buy into all of the conspiracy theory garbage. A mass murdering dictator needed to be removed and he was. If thats not a good enough reason then youre searching way to hard. Grow up.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:13 am
@Miss_Info (70): again with the jews?? I guess it never gets old right?? Whats with all these conspiracy theories u r talking about?? And are you sure the bomb shouldn’t be placed here?? A lot of jews worked at los alamos. Geesh.
@BravehisTickle (57): well i really dont see how many life may be affected by decisions u make over there?? Well except if you decide to attack europe one day:p. I see power as the ones capability of imposing ones desire upon others. Thats why the us isnt top dog anymore( e.g. When ukraine and georgia didnt get accepted into nato). Now there are many poles of power. Im just glad obama is aware of that.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:16 am
@ Badlist
The premises in which our nations invaded Iraq were false, we were lied to by our leaders and the prime motivation was not to remove Saddam and supposedly liberate Iraqis but economic and military motivations which have led to a destruction of a nation.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:17 am
@hunter s thompson (80):
It’s always hilarious hearing people who don’t live in America talk about how “miserable” and “tyrannical” it must be to live in America. I live here and things are just fine. I have never once felt my “rights” were being infringed upon. I can assure you the federal government has never listened to any of my phone calls. But I wouldn’t give a damn if they did. If they want to that boring crap, I don’t give a shit, because I don’t freak out at such trivial things. I have the rights to freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, and all that jazz. I can assure you, this is no DPRK.
@hunter s thompson (82):
I’d like to know how you would have ended Japanese war atrocities without hurting any Japanese people. Please indulge me.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:19 am
@ comment 89
See comment 87
Also…..Grow Up.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:22 am
@badlist (81): well the world is full of dictators. Why dont u topple them all. Are you sure u ate ur freedom fries today??
November 29th, 2009 at 6:23 am
@jfrater: hey, what about those submarine stories??
November 29th, 2009 at 6:23 am
@tayka (89):
I can’t help but laugh at people who think the US government is THAT competent. Sorry, but the US government consists of a bunch of mediocre politicians trying to make their way through life. The Central Intelligence Agency is inadequate and everyone else in the federal government is even less informed. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about our intelligence resources being wrong. You think Bush WANTED Iraq to have no WMD’s, and thus make him look like a fool? If the US government is so evil and full of criminal masterminds, then why the fuck did they not PLANT weapons of mass destruction so as not to look like warmongering fools who invaded a country for no reason? Honestly, it wouldn’t have been that hard.
Seriously, people. THINK.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:24 am
Amazing list, and agree with all!! and unfortunately there are more. I’m glad to see that it’s a combination of both internal and external American conflicts!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 6:30 am
@calm_incense: uhu that’s the same as saying that you don’t care about speed limits untill you obliterate your car. Only now you can’t do shit about it.
2nd: Japanese ppl would have been hurt anyhow. But civilians? what, they didn’t have enough intel to locate the large japanese military bases? Really, civilians? That’s just plain wrong. As someone else said, i’d like to see you defending that crap if ot happend in america. I don’t see you defending the 9/11 attacks…which is kind of the same situation if you change your point of view.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:33 am
@ comment 90
I live in America too and youre right Ive never had my rights infringed upon……..Until taxes were taken out on payday and tax day and renew your registration day and Thursday and the day you die and Tuesday and the day your family receives the inheritance you left them and whenever I get on the tolll road. So I guess everything is peachy. lolz. I love(maybe I should use the past tense) this country but you cant keep your eyes closed and claim you cant see anything wrong.
For anyone interested Check out the Penn and Teller: Bullshit episode on Taxes and also look up the expatriation tax. Believe it or not you’re basically trapped in this country.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:33 am
@El the erf (93): yeah dude. Lets see if the shawshank method really works
@ jfrater: people want to hear those stories
November 29th, 2009 at 6:38 am
@ comment 92
Would you rather he stayed in power? or are you just being a smartass because thats a pretty ignorant comment. congratulations
November 29th, 2009 at 6:41 am
@ comment 94.
Very smart comment. Too bad most people that post in here are nerdy conspiracy theorists. Thats why the Conspiracy theory list have so many comments. Its laughable.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:43 am
no badlist he’s right. WHY hussein? Did they just sit around the war room thinking “hey how about taking down a dictator? Yeah how about that sadam guy?”
Why don’t they “help out” in south africa, like with mugabe?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:54 am
@calm_.incense umm i know where tat was fought tyvm.Now ive a sunday to enjoy,u all should do that 2.Party on people,peace.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:55 am
@calm_incense:
Who says the US gov is compotent? Far from it. The US intelligence couldn’t prove that Iraq had WMD and even if that was the case what sort of premise is that to invade another country. How much money has the Bush family and Cheney made from the war? Economic interests led to Iraq not to fucking dispose of Saddam Hussein.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:55 am
where is JFK??? I i thought its gonna be #1
OJ trial??
November 29th, 2009 at 6:55 am
@ comment 101
They absolutely should. Do you have any opposition to that or do you think that those who are oppressed by tyrants are just SOL because they weren’t lucky enough to be born “free” like we were? Lets here your brilliant comeback to that. Lets here you defend tyrants and dictators. I already explained and recognized in my first comment that the Iraqi war has become a debacle because of false intel and inadequate funding from congress. So essentially you are now arguing with me about whether or not Ahmedinejhad and Kim jeong ill and hussein and countless other dicatators have the god given RIGHT to murder their own people like Saddam did just because we SHOULDN’T IMPOSE. You sound like a fool and Im not the only one who sees that.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:57 am
@hunter s thompson (96):
1. Uh…speed limits are infringements upon your freedom. Funny that you would use them as your analogy.
2. Perhaps you don’t realize this, but the Japanese were in China and throughout Southeast Asia. Trekking Southeast Asia was absolutely miserable, full of harsh environmental conditions and fatal diseases. Fighting the Japanese on their occupied lands was just unfeasible. You couldn’t bomb them without risking hitting Allied civilians, and even then, Japan could just send more troops from the mother country. Lastly, I’m not “defending” it, but rather pointing out that it’s not quite as black-and-white an issue as you seem to think it is.
@badlist (97):
*wah wah*. *I have to pay taxes*!! :’(
@hunter s thompson (101):
What does Mugabe have to do with South Africa?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:59 am
@tayka (103):
Now if only you could BACK UP your assertions with EVIDENCE, that’d be nifty!
November 29th, 2009 at 7:00 am
And no, unsubstantiated claims on the Internet are not “evidence”.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:06 am
@badlist (105): do you want me to make a list of good , us friendly dictators?? Stop pretending u spread peace and
happiness across the globe. I know sometimes is for a good cause. But its always sjades of gray. Its not black or white. Dont be so naive
November 29th, 2009 at 7:09 am
@Arsnl (109):
I’m pretty sure badlist already said, “Im not that naive there were plenty of reasons to invade.”
His point was that regardless of the original intentions for invading, removing Saddam was a good thing. Kind of like if you donate money to charity to impress someone, it’s still ultimately a good thing.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:11 am
@Jessica Rabbit (43):
I am Cherokee-Geronimo was my great-great–great grandfather. I do this that the trail of tears was reprehensible, but the worst moment in American history was forcing us off our land and killing us in the first place-after we fed and sheltered the white man in the winters.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:11 am
The War of 1812 should’ve been on here. I mean, the British managed to storm Washington and burn down the goddamn White House all because of a war WE declared. It might have not have had a great loss of life, but it was arguably one of the most humiliating moments in US history.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:14 am
Don’t you know that Cheney was CEO of Haliburtons and his daughter sat on the board of directors of private security firms that are operating in Iraq? He sure gets a lot of dosh.(Read Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein) As for Bush his shares in oil companies obviously had nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq right?
Even if the premises of the war which were told to us (which the majority of people in my country didn’t believe anyway) were true is that a reason to kill thousands of innocent people and destroy a country apart? I don’t fucking think so and most people didn’t even support the war.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:19 am
@Ben Dover (114): And I thought my comments were offensive. )
November 29th, 2009 at 7:23 am
The last guy is named Ba5tard, and the guy before him is named Ben Dover.
Bleh.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:24 am
@calm_incense (110): well im sorry i really dont remember his speech but im just saying that removing a bad person wasnt the most important reason. I really dont think it was a reason at all. Who wants to spend billions and billions of dollars on what masses think. For a vote yup that may matter and u shout it loudly but i really dont think its truelly a reason cuz there are loads of dictators still in power.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:25 am
@calm_incense (110):
Even if whilst donating you managed to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children? And the charity you were donating to was the ‘we need oil foundation’? Is it still a good thing? And even if the money you spent on that charity could perhaps have been better spent, say on, oh I don’t know, improving standards of education in your country? Or perhaps feeding and clothing all the homeless people that litter your streets who a lot of, correct me if i’m wrong, are there only as a result of the last time you gave to charity? I believe that charity was called the ‘Why the fuck are we in Vietnam foundation’? Still a good Idea?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:25 am
@calm_incense (116): You’re so nice. I think, I love you.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:25 am
@tayka (113):
You act as if people weren’t already being killed in the first place.
“What? Bomb the Nazis the prevent them from slaughtering the Jews? You can’t do that! That’s MURDER!!1!!1!”
-_-
November 29th, 2009 at 7:27 am
@calm_incense (120): You’re absolutely right. Now, I’m sure love you.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:27 am
The comments section for this list is the worst thing in history.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:29 am
I expect to see this list replaced by that little mouse holding a bouquet of flowers along with a formal apology by Jfrater in 6 hours or less.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:30 am
Umm no I don’t. People were certainly being killed but not on the same scale.
What a hell of a comparison…Saddam was a scumbag, but the whole Iraq issue is different to Nazi Germany doesn’t take rocket science to figure that out.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:32 am
@archiealt (118):
I’m curious if you’d be saying that if you were one of the people locked up in Saddam Hussein’s prisons.
Basically, imagine yourself locked in a car on a railroad track and a train is rushing toward you. Someone has enough time to come and rescue you, but as he starts in your direction, his friend stops him, telling him it’s too dangerous.
Meanwhile you’re sitting there in the car thinking, “Fuuuuuuck.”
There are many Iraqis, predominantly Kurds, who have exactly this sentiment.
There is always an opportunity cost to everything. My point of all this is that it’s not the simplistic black-and-white issue you seem to think it is.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:33 am
the worst list i’ve ever read, seriously…..
November 29th, 2009 at 7:37 am
@NickMatrix (111):
Nick, I think you either misspoke or didn’t give us all the information. You said you are Cherokee but that you are descended from Geronimo? Geronimo was Chiraqua Apache, not Cherokee. Other side of the family?
I’m not accusing. Just curious.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:44 am
What about Holocaust and other genocides?!?!
November 29th, 2009 at 7:44 am
To everyone who condemns the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, please do not fall into the trap that so many people do of trying to judge the morality of a historical action by the standards of today.
Looking back at World War II, a lot of things seem clearer, like if the Western Allies had grouped with a defeated Germany and gone on to destroy Communist USSR, we wouldn’t have had a Cold War.
The fact is, Hirohito wasn’t in control of Japan by the end of the war, the military leaders like Tojo were. Hirohito was a virtual prisoner in his palace. So yes, it is very sad that half a million people died in two cities, BUT how many more would have died if Operation Olympic the invasion of the Home Islands, would have been carried out instead?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Rename this list “Top Ten worst things I think the US government has done.” (With the exception of 4 and 9)
No Abraham Lincoln assassination? JFK? Pearl Harbor? Nah. This list is merely one person’s collection of the moments they personally find most morally apprehensible to today’s post-modern standards. I’m not defending the trail of tears or the dropping of the bomb mind you… I just think this list is a reason argue online. I guess it works… Listverse gets a boat load of hits, and I get to read my fill of America bashing by noon.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:56 am
We had to drop the bomb. Japan would have fought until the bitter end otherwise. The amount of casualties that would have resulted from the United States having to invade Japan on both sides would have been astronomical.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:00 am
Patriot Act deserves to be on this list more than the war in Iraq.
A US invasion of Japan may have cost 3 million lives, but it was hardly even necessary for us to do so. Japan was on the brink of collapse without the bombs getting dropped, but dropping the bombs ensured that the rest of the world would think twice before fucking with us(a huge message to the Russians).
The Vietnam War was a huge mistake in that it was completely unnecessary or us to have been participating in it to begin with. Honestly, the Communists overtaking a small Asian country was no more harmful to us than subsuming part of Germany during the gerrymandering after WW2 ended, but only became so because we wanted to stop them.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:05 am
@KingBubbaGump (6):
LOL. Still in denial?
Interesting list. No better or no worse than any other country. Good and Bad everywhere,
The biggest difference though, is being able to acknowledge ones faults and mistakes – a sign of maturity.
None of the above acts are justifiable. Killing countless thousands on the premise of saving millions rings so hollow.
A quick history lesson should educate those that defend the atom bombs dropped on Japan were not done so to end the war, but merely to prevent the Soviets from getting there first.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:05 am
I think I’m starting to agree with Gabe(122)
I’m an American and I can easily say that we have had many horrific moments in history. Many of which were our own making. It’s not a horrible place to live though. We have freedom and education. We have equality for woman, men, blacks whites, whatever.
There are many other countries which day to day are doing more deplorable things than the US. Or have histories that are more blood stained than ours but I don’t hear any of you ranting about them.
The US had no right to go into Iraq but I can’t say that I’m not happy that Saddam is out of power. Also I believe that the Trail of Tears ranks very high on the list of worst moments in US history.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Forget the 9/11 theories! Forget the Native American land! Imagine if the US had not dropped those bombs? I can imagine most the people on this website would not be alive. Creating and dropping those bombs advanced society beyond anything that we can imagine. The middle east still wants to live in the middle ages, the Russians are still angry at how poor they are, and the Europeans are pissed they missed out on the land of the free and brave. Give it a rest you dumb people, America has been good to all of us. If you don’t believe that, than just imagine your life with out it?
November 29th, 2009 at 8:17 am
@ Ben Dover and Ba5tarD
Don’t attempt to turn into one of those many mudslinging blogs which are plaguing the net nowadays.
You should known by now that Listverse is a class apart.
Its not that ranting and abusing is not allowed out here…but it is done in such a way that people actually enjoy reading the comments more than the list itself!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:19 am
I don’t know what makes America look worse–the items on this list or some of the comments that follow. I don’t understand why this list is controversial. Why is it so wrong to look back at a nation’s history and realize it doesn’t always do the right thing? I would leave off the last two items, simply because they are so recent. But please tell me why people don’t consider mass murder and oppression of whole groups and races of people a bad thing? I’m done with Listverse…or at least the comment section. It makes me too sad.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:21 am
@El the erf (136): I wasn’t attempting it. I really love this blog, and I was just posting comments. After that I was called “fascist bigot”. Do I need to eat it? Sorry, but no way.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Hey, there love your lists on the site, however i would love to see more lists from a British point of view, maybe about history and present day, anyway thanks for the lists!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Iraq does not belong there! Neither does dropping the A-Bomb! Internment camps can be argued back and forth, but at least it prevented the wholesale slaughter of Japanese-Americans in the streets such as what happened in New York City to African-Americans by whites who were fed up with the Civil War. (THAT should be added to the list!)
Substitute the following concerning the 30’s and WWII: Re-electing Franklin Delano Roosevelt not once but three times and his prolongation of the Depression through governmental meddling in the economy and the setting up of Social Security as a pyramid scheme instead of a voluntary, investment-based pension plan; his refusal to allow escaping European Jews to emigrate to America while there was still time; his refusal to order General Eisenhower’s forces to bomb the train tracks leading to Nazi death camps even after their existence was becoming known; and his total disregard for the peoples of eastern Europe by allowing Stalin to install puppet Communist regimes after the war instead of having them become or revert back to democratically elected republics.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:24 am
@calm_incense (125):
Oh, is that how they feel is it? Is that what’s going on? How the fuck can you say that? How can you claim to speak for any Iraqis whatsoever? Have you spoke to any of them? Gone over there and chatted to them about how they feel with regards to there country being invaded and bombed by a foreign force? No. The only thing you know is what your ridiculously biased media has told you. The fact that you believe America is some sort of friend who’s looking to help out those who are in trouble is fucking ludicrous. If that is actually your opinion then you’ve FAILED. Try again.
And again, before you start going all ‘Captain America’ on us, and trying to sort out the problems in other countries, by invading them and bringing more death and destruction to them no less, how about you sort out your own fucking back yard first, yeah?
This comment,
‘I can assure you the federal government has never listened to any of my phone calls. But I wouldn’t give a damn if they did’
shows how useless you really are. You’ve FAILED. Now go back to CNN, i’m sure your missing that report on ‘Gay terrorist, Americas ultimate enemy’ that you so craved to see.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:38 am
The Dred Scott Decision is included in this list, but there would never have been that decision if slavery itself had not been part of American history. Slavery itself should have been at #2 with the Dred Scott Decision mentioned as a result.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:43 am
@Giantshredder (21): “Am I the only one that noticed Obama is not on this list?”
No. Here’s my list
1. Barack Obama elected president
(well duh)
2. Armstrong walks on the moon
(Spending lots of money, just to film landing in the Hollywood studio is socialism. Socialism is bad)
3. The Civil Rights Act
(led to 1.)
4. The Marshall Plan
(Spending lots of government money to build socialism in Europe is.. socialism. Socialism is baad)
5. Women’s suffrage
(as result Obama easily won against Hillary)
6. The Emancipation Proclamation
(led to 1. and sounds like bad poetry)
7. Lewis and Clark arrive at the Pacific
(It’s so obvious I won’t explain it)
8. Louisiana Purchase
(spending lots of government money is socialism. Socialism is baaad)
9. Ratification of the Constitution
(led to 1)
10. Declaration of Independence
(the start of it all)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:44 am
There is a great deal of misinformation regarding McCarthy
There were lots of communists working in Hollywood and in the government. Because the U.S. government did not want the Russians to know they had cracked their spy codes, much of this information was held back from McCarthy so his committee became a joke. The Rosenbergs, who were executed for being spies, were in fact spies. Do your research and don’t simply rely on Google for your knowledge. I have valid proof for what I say You are simply regurgitating common assumptions.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:46 am
This is not a very good list. This seems like it was created by someone who has absolutely no understanding of American history. I would remove this one ASAP. Usually the lists are awesome, this one is the first that I think was done very poorly.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:49 am
To be honest i’m sick of all the America bashing, yes they do things that are wrong but as have every country in the history of the world, look a the Romans, invaded almost have the world but now we look at them in Awe and marvel at their roads which are better then most of ours today…we don’t really think of the millions they slaughtered and the cities they wiped out ie Carthage…look at british, french, and dutch imperialism…hell want to look at atrocities look at the spanish in cuba, or french in indo china, America isn’t the only country going where it shouldn’t and it won’t be the last, history repeats its self, and it doesnt’ lie. as for the A bomb, well i think thats a travasty that it is on the list..war against opposing militaries? that went out the window long before the 1900’s- and to behonest…looking at the atrocities that the japanese armies committed in places like China, Korea, Burman, Vietnam, etc (also their armies were supported by the Japanese peoples), also look at the treatment of POW’s by Japan, including those who were sent back to Japan…for slave labour. To be honest the A-bombs probably saved more Japanese lives and definitly American and allied lives then a full scale invaison, which was the only other option to end the war! how many lives would have been lost during a complete invaison of a country that instructed every man, woman, child to fight to the death or commit suicide rather then being captured…to prove my arguement look at the invaisons of outer Japanese islands ie Saipan…i think the vast majority of you include the site creator need to log off for a while and try reading a book, preferably a historical one…maybe that way you’d have an understanding of what your talking about!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:50 am
@Gav (23): If only the native peoples were “just” moved from one place to another, check your history books: “In the winter of 1838 the Cheroke began the thousand mile march with scant clothing and most on foot without shoes or moccasins….The Cherokee were given used blankets from a hospital in Tennessee where an epidemic of small pox had broken out. Because of the diseases, the Indians were not allowed to go into any towns or villages along the way; many times this meant traveling much farther to go around them….[T]hey arrived in Southern Illinois at Golconda about the 3rd of December, 1838. Here the starving Indians were charged a dollar a head to cross the river on ‘Berry’s Ferry’ which typically charged twelve cents. They were not allowed passage until the ferry had serviced all others wishing to cross and were forced to take shelter under “Mantle Rock,” a shelter bluff on the Kentucky side, until ‘Berry had nothing better to do.’ Many died huddled together at Mantle Rock waiting to cross. Several Cherokee were murdered by locals. The killers filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Government through the courthouse in Vienna, suing the government for $35 a head to bury the murdered Cherokee.” (From Wikipedia)
[27]@max (39): Unfortunately in the US the media seems to think they have to give equal time to nut jobs. Thus many rumors take on a life of their own as they are repeated in otherwise logical news stories. Drew Curtis writes in his book, “It’s not News it’s Fark” – “Mass Media feels compelled to insert ‘alternate viewpoints’ into scientific articles from people who are obviously loons.” Sept 11 attacks were perpetrated by outside forces. It’s unfortunate that 7raul7 felt compelled to include this line: “(Some accounts suggest it was an inside job, or a horrific case of neglect)”
@Arsnl (40): “@jfrater: hey what about those submarine stories??” Seriously? For the love of God, let it go already.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:51 am
It’s a big leap from “I’ve done some seriously wrong things in my life” to “I’m the worst person in the world.” America has done terrible, awful things. That doesn’t make it the worst country in the world. History is a freaking bloodbath. Yes, America had slavery and slavery is unconscionable. But if you go back a few hundred years in history, slavery was the norm. Let’s not forget the past. Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. But let’s be fair. There’s plenty of evil to go around. America has committed heinous acts, but that doesn’t make it more evil than other countries. It bothers me that this list is being used as an excuse to vilify America.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I’m from Europe and what gets me really freaked out by you americans is the way that i see some of you talking about the atomic bomb and how it was a good thing. Ok it was a good thing on some aspects. But can you really say without any second thoughts that it was, in general, a good thing?? 200 million people died because of those bombs and you’re competitive nature only cares about the fact that you are better and got the bomb first!
Of course, now it’s a matter of nobody else having it so you go into wars with whoever “threatens” your position as world superpower. And that never ending feeling of pretentious world saviors and guardians, my friends, is what is slowly starting to dictate the end of this “american” era, just as other era’s have ended before.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:51 am
What about the Challenger disaster? Nearly derailed the Shuttle and Space program at the time, not to mention the implications it had on the relationship between engineering and management.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:51 am
@TJ2017 (139):
Full stops pal. We invented them for a reason.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:53 am
@135 I can’t help but to agree.
I think there are several other events in US history that should have been included. As a history major, I can say with relative certainty that US history is a large series of mistakes and attempts to make up for said mistakes. A few you really should include:
Native AMerican Wars
Stonewall
Gilded age (I mean, how could you nlt include this one)
Scopes Monkey Trials
Plessy V Ferguson
Darker side of segregation (lynchings, KKK, jim crow)
Recent Lynichings (Matthew Shephard, Jasper)
Guantanimo
Alien and sedition acts of Adams
Espionage and sedition acts of Wilson/ Shenck decision
IMPERIALISM (Panama, Phillipines, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, I mean, come on, this truly is a must)
War prisoners during the civil war
Reganomics (the darker side, if you’re pro regan)
AIDS
The Debacle of George W. Bush
C street
I mean, the list goes on. It makes me feel a bit dissapointed in America. Incomplete list, I must say, I mean, this is a topic you really can’t cover in 10 items…
November 29th, 2009 at 8:54 am
oooops, I meant “darker side of reconstruction” sorry, segregation was just a big dark side…
November 29th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Undoubtedly to become a controversial list. I have reservations about the reason for writing this list. Obviously, America-bashing isn’t the best thing out there… but at the same time, one should always understand two sides of one coin.
In any case, interesting list. Some of the comments here sadden me. But as with any diverse pool of individuals, there are bound to be idiots in the crowd.
I hope people in the comments take care to ensure they don’t argue the extreme: i.e. America is all good and no evil, or America is all evil and no good, or that America stands alone in its mistakes, or stands alone in its triumphs.
Happy debating!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:57 am
ana check your facts about the 200 million, because you are off by a few hundred million!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:58 am
I’d add the assassinations of Abraham Lincoln (16th President), James A. Garfield (20th President), William McKinley (25th President) and John F. Kennedy (35th President).
The assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. should most certainly be on a list like this.
And maybe even the attempted assassinations of Theodore Roosevelt (26th President)and Ronald Reagan (40th President).
November 29th, 2009 at 8:59 am
@Moonbeam (149):
Wow! You love assassinations don’t you!? Just as a trivial add, what about the 300+ failed attempts on Castro?
=P
November 29th, 2009 at 9:01 am
I am American. I do not like lists like these – - not because I disagree them but because they open up a can of worms as far as comments go.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Another lets get together and bash America List, all you people that hate America go ahead and have at it, enjoy the moment. and then some other list will pop up soon enough so that you all can continue in your misery. It would be pointless for me to hate a specific country for no other reason other than they are top of the world…
November 29th, 2009 at 9:04 am
@151 I am American too. But this “can of worms” is only a fair part of debating the past to make a better future. I’m sure you have no issue debating aspects of the British commonwealth, or the Nazi regime, or any “blemishes” in other places’ history. Furthermore, one cannot deny all of the horrible things in America’s past that need to be examined and that AMerican needs to take responsibility for.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:04 am
I like the idea behind Listverse. Unfortunately, some things do not translate well into the brevity necessary for a list. Poor writing and research as well as the interjection of the author’s personal views (without support) further detract from what could at least be a springboard for continued research.
It also doesn’t help when the author chooses a title (‘worst moments’) and then fails to adequately define the meaning. “Worst,” but for whom? A nation’s pride? Its citizens? Its enemies? 10 foreign policy blunders, or 10 state department miscues…narrow the focus, define the parameters, do your research, label your opinions and you’d have a much better list.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:05 am
This is a very interesting list. I’d like to add to No. 5, Internment Camps, that it was not just Japanese-Americans who were sent to interment camps during WWII but some Americans of German and Italian descent as well.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Hey Jfrat! When you delete a comment, it stuffs up the @COMMENTER(#) posts…. is this fixable at all!? I noticed that some comments hyperlinked to comments that no longer correspond to the #.
i.e. Comment 119: @COMMENTER(125), blah blah.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:06 am
@Rufus (23):
lol.
They’re hunting Communists in China?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:06 am
*America
November 29th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Had Japan surrendered when they were asked, their would’ve been no need to nuke them. The invasion of Iraq was a stupid move, one of many made by the stupidest President in years. What of the Waco Texas incident and the Oklahoma City bombing.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:13 am
also we didnt just randomly bomb the japanese civilians
the japanese placed their primary weapon factories and such in civilian areas
November 29th, 2009 at 9:16 am
There is a multitude of evidence suggesting that Japan was going to surrender, and besides, a nuke is never the answer, there IS a reason it has only been used once in history…
November 29th, 2009 at 9:16 am
OMG! OMG!! OMG!!! LOLROFLMAOBBQ!! calm_incense got TOLD! I mean in your FACE! YEAHHHH! How can you not see the TOTAL logic and INEFFABLE righteousness of all these people who DISAGREE with you?!!
*Whew* Sorry about that. I was suddenly overcome by the frat-boy atmosphere. I think most of you need to grow up, actually. I can’t see this comment list as anything more than mental masturbation; Feels good, accomplishes nothing.
P.S. You can substitute any name you want for calm_incense in the above paragraph. Frat boys, indeed.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Dropping the bomb on Japan was one of the BEST events in U.S. history. It saved countless American lives against an enemy with no qualms about sending their own people on suicide missions.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:18 am
This is list is a poor one, if only for the error in claiming the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I hope the writer included it for the purpose of entertainment – like Ballon Boy’s dad exploited his son. Though vain and exploitive, the lie remains a lie and there’s no real intent to confuse the truth.
But, if the writer of this list intended #6 to be taken as sincere, shame on him/her for learning to read and write without also learning the value of truth; no respect ever comes to the person who shouts “Fire!” in a crowded room when there is none.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:19 am
magnatude of evidence…check history…they were asked twice and full out declined…as well as were in full stride to defence preperation!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:21 am
@KingBubbaGump (2):
No I dont think so… consider the US already had half a million troops and were being pushed back. Furthermore, when the US leaves, Ho Chi Mihn Invades Burma, who get help by the chinese and vietnam whoops the chinese too in the Sino-Viet war. Shows you nationalism from a country tried of being conquered goes a long way.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:21 am
@Ana (142): 200 millions?? Its not the black plagur you know?? 200 million is like killing all of japan@Moonbeam (140): you really dont have to read my comments. Really. No im serious you really dont have to. Yes thats true u can move on
November 29th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Hey … my list is pretty impressive
AND … I’m Paki. Any problems with that?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:22 am
@KingBubbaGump (3):
This is also wrong, The Japanese had already asked for a surrender with the only condition being sparing the emperor (who had no real power anyways). The use, like it was said after you, was to show up US strength to the growing Soviet Influence which was sweeping through Europe.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Knowing that you are Pakistani does shed some light on the list, true.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Sorry, but the dropping of the atomic weapons on Japan is not a ‘worst moment’ – in reality it saved tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of lives overall. Ask the people of the time if THEY think it was a bad moment and they will laugh at the ridiculousness of the question.
Someone needs to study *history* a bit more and think with their head, not heart and understand the overall picture of the time. While it IS sad that so many Japanese were killed or wounded by the weapons, it WAS war, total war.
Do you think any of the Axis powers would have hesitated to use the bombs if they had had them? Do you not think the British (or any other Allied powers) would have used it had they the technology, instead of sitting in bunkers getting bombed day in and day out by aircraft, V1 and V2? I have never heard a single bloke from the WWII era in Britain complain about the dropping of the bombs.
EVERYONE saw the dropping of the bombs on Japan as a GOOD thing back then!!
Also, even tho I am not an American, I see that many of the lists are geared towards America/Americans. Why not do a ‘worst of’ Europe or Asia? They too have done hideous crimes against humanity.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:31 am
America gives the most aid of any country on earth, yet we are criticized. Why do people risk their lives swimming seas, climbing fences, stowing on ships, running through harsh landscapes just to be on our soil? How many of your sad, pathetic, disease ridden, corrupt government, poverty stricken, asses can say that about your country? NONE OF YOU. You bash us because you are jealous of us, plain and simple. YES, we have done some things that we are not proud of BUT lets make a list of the things our country does well and does poorly and then compare them to your third-world, have my hand out, pathetic “countries”. Why do I see middle easterners living here? The white man, as you like to say alot, has advanced this earth more than every other race of human on this earth, yet we get bashed. Where is the technology in Africa? There is none. Despite the billions of dollars spent by AMERICANS, africa is a disease ridden dump. If you all hate us, then, return the billions of dollars in aid and be prepared to be taken down at our border. If not, then, keep the money and show a little goddamn respect. Oh one more thing, just look at the department of justice crime stats and tell me again which race of people in this country are committing the most mass murders. Minority gangs have destroyed this once great nation, not the white people or the EXTINCT kkk. (remember, latinos are considered white in the statistics)
November 29th, 2009 at 9:37 am
The usage of nuclear weapons on Japan was not a bad moment. If you consider how many lives would have been lost on both sides if the United States had just continued to invade Japan (over one million) versus the lives that were lost from the nuclear weapons (150,000), it was a smart decision and much better than the alternative.
Add McCarthyism in its place and then I will agree with the list.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:46 am
I would say that one that was not mentioned was Sherman’s march to the sea. It wasn’t a bad event in terms of property damage or loss of life or even psychological or moral damage, but Sherman’s march was the first act of Total War ever. Even worse, it worked very well, and it sparked the idea that total war was a necessary act. This event allowed the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:48 am
@proudass american (172):
the days of jealousy towards the US have long passed. Maybe 20-30 years ago. But now, in the sunset of your empire, I can understand your frustration. But it happens to the best of us.
I think most have gone beyond the stages of hatred now. Hatred implies power. You need money for power. You have none. Your nation is skint.
Time to move on. The Asian invasion has already conquered – first the Japanese destroyed your industry, and now the Chinese devalue and control your dollar.
Get over it
November 29th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Re: Japan and the bomb. Considering the atrocities they committed during the war,including torching our soldiers to save bullets, I’d have dropped more than two.
Re: Vietnam: this is what happens when politics runs a war. We are headed for that same thing in Afghanistan.
Re: Interment camps: the polar opposite: Nidal Hasan.
Re: Dred Scott: we made up for that with the civil war.
Re: Native Americans: Yeah, it sucks. We have yet to fix that one to my satisfaction.
Re: Stock market crash. Again, government causes it, prolongs it, gains power from it. Sound familiar?
Re: 911. The only conspiracy I have found was in the Clinton Administration more interested in getting laid and hididng scandal that protecting America.
Re: McCarthy. Verona Papers prove he was right. So does the current proliferation of Communists and Socialists in our government at the moment.
The list is a good list. It does list tragedies. It just doesn’t tell all of the truth.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:55 am
I am amazed by that many non-Americans find it acceptable to bash ALL Americans. I have traveled to many other countries, worked with and employed many non-Americans…many are my friends. However, I have also been insulted to my face by Europeans, Latinos, and people from India in my own home more than once for being an America. I quote “All Americans are stupid and fat and shop at Walmart” When did it become acceptable to stereotype people by nationality?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:58 am
The worst thing that happened in the Americas was Europeans coming over and commiting genocide. That and converting Natives into christianity and/or catholicism.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Good list. Killing of civilians can never be justified.
I think the main reason fot the atomic bombing of japan was the fear of soviet invasion of the japanese main islands. Sovs had just beaten the japanese armies in manchuria and were planning to attack Hokkaido. US had to act quickly so that japan wouldn’t fall into soviet hands. And the quickest way to force japan into peace was dropping the bombs.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:03 am
@archangel (150): No I don’t “love assassinations.” I kept seeing people post about Kennedy, or Lincoln, etc and thought they were missing the fact that four of the US presidents were killed in this way. MLK, Jr seemed like a huge omission from the discourse.
@7raul7 (168): It is a good list, and it has inspired a lot of comments (unfortunately including many sophomoric ones – but what else is new?).
Of course there’s nothing wrong with being “Paki” – My Dad always says, “we’re all in this thing together.” This “thing” being life and “all of us” being brothers and sisters.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:05 am
WTF….poor list….sorry
November 29th, 2009 at 10:14 am
My fraternity had a date dash called “the trail of beers” it was alot of fun.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:15 am
You forgot Disco
November 29th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Many ethnic germans in the US were also put in camps, like the japanese.
Funny how we don’t talk about this along with so many other historical facts.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:20 am
despite my earlier comment i dont think the bomb deserves to be on this list, honestly it saved more lives then it destroyed, considering it was estimated that it would cost 1,000,000 American soldiers alone to take Japan.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:25 am
What a crappy list. Probably written by Michelle Obama.
This reads like a liberal apology to the world.
Here’s a real list:
1: The new deal.
2: Income Tax.
3: Hate crime (thought crime)legislation.
4: Row v Wade (40 million ‘choices’ and counting)
5: Bork fiasco
6: Imminent domain supreme court decision.
7: Every court set-aside of a publicly voted decision.
8: Trying the first world trade center bombers in Court.
9: Every single thing Obama has done.
10: Not realizing that we are at war.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:31 am
a few things… 1, 2, and 5 are sad, sad moments in u.s. history, and i think most americans are really ashamed of them. the fact that people were once treated as possessions, or kicked off their own land for no other reason, than someone else wanted it is absolutely horrible, but i am happy that i live here in america, because it has evolved into a place where all people, male or female, regardless of race can live with all the same basic human rights and freedoms. what seems to be forgotten is that in some places women are treated as possesions every day. my best friend is in the army, and i hear stories sometimes that are turn my blood cold. one in particular being of a six year old girl they saw get blown up by her own people, because they strapped a bomb to her, hoping she’d get close enough to the u.s. troops to hurt them. the saddest part is that that little girl is probably better off, considering what they would have done to her in her lifetime, if they thought so little of her that they would strap a bomb to an innocent child. at least i know i can say that that would have never happened in america, and if it did, it would cause outrage, whereas in iraq, it was just another day and another bomb. i could go on, but this is too long already.
also… many wars were fought on US soil (the revolutionary war, the civil war, the war of 1812 and so on) they just havent been in the last 100 years. 9/11 wasnt the first time america was attacked either. the japanese bombed pearl harbor, and we weren’t even at war with them. it was that act that tipped the scales and caused america to join world war II.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:50 am
I challenge you to tell the Kurds in northern Iraq that Saddam didn’t have, AND USE, WMDs. Get your head out of the ass of the Democrat dominated media.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:50 am
theres this thing that pops up and changes the pages and its called china on tv and its really pissing me off
November 29th, 2009 at 10:51 am
oh and lazlo stop the republican propaganda
November 29th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Worst moment in US history: Twilight New Moon makes $147million in one weekend.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Typical commie tripe.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:56 am
What’s with all these ridiculously dumbass comments!? Some of them are actually sensible, but the vast majority are incredibly ignorant and stupid. As for the list, this is not up to Listverse standards. In fact, it’s a extremely biased piece of horse shit. If any list on Listverse should be pulled, it’s this one. For the first time in my almost two and a half years on this site, I am genuinely disgusted.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Worst moment in Canadian History: Indroducing segregated schools…..in 2008! No joke.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:05 am
It doesn’t love you.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I love all the hate that America gets. Lets put it this way, If you are in a classroom, Who do all the students make fun of? The teacher. America leads the world in nearly everything, We tell other countries what they are going to do. And if they don’t do it, that’s where number six on the list comes in handy. Enjoy being invaded when we get around to it.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:17 am
i think we should have a top 10 greatest and a top 10 worst things the UK has ever done. seems only fair
November 29th, 2009 at 11:18 am
The list itself is pretty good; I wouldn’t have included Hiroshima or Nagasaki; with the information available at the time, I would have made the same decision. Japan was the aggressor, they were killing civilians left and right, a protracted war would have resulted in the deaths of many more of the truly innocent – citizens of defending countries. The Japanese had to bear the burden – they started the war.
Instead I would have included either the disastrous mid-east policy (Shah Pahlavi anyone?) or the horrendous mess left in Central America due to concern over profit rather than population. American foreign policy really did insure Castro and his ilk success. Those folks are still trying to recover.
Trust me though, almost all countries have episodes in their past that are shameful. Canada didn’t and still doesn’t treat its native population very well – we still had the residential school program until the 1970’s. We shot and killed labour organizers, we practiced segregation. Maybe I’ll write a list.
@Nathan (106): Depends what side you’re on eh? I’m Canadian; The War of 1812 wasn’t such a bad thing for us. Did you know that the war ended because basically both sides lost interest? So much for Manifest Destiny.
@lazlo (186): So you’re going to pay for your roads how? You’re going to pay for the education of your youth how? Not even worth rebutting the rest of your foolishness. Sounds like you get all your opinions from FoxNews.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:28 am
I agree with you on the “The Dred Scott Decision.” An immoral decision like that only tends to split a nation in two. However, I am baffled you did not mention another immoral Supreme Court decision (that is also splitting our nation into two): “Roe vs. Wade.” This was another Supreme Court decision (like The Dred Scott Decision), that reduced a group of human beings into something (by that Court’s definition); sub-human. As a matter of fact; Roe vs. Wade should have been #1 on your list. Why? Since 1973, over 40 million unborn children have been legally murdered due to that one Supreme Court decision. I figured that since you were using # of people killed on some your “Worst of Moments in U.S. History List;” 40 million far exceeds any of them. Wouldn’t Joseph Stalin be envious of the U.S. over this fact?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Oh, good grief, it’s the white guilt list. Lame.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:33 am
obviously all these decisions had good and logical reasonings but they are hardly good as in moral or kind actions are they.
sometimes countries have to make ruthless decisions and america did. its hardly picking on poor innocent america is it????
November 29th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Bill: Remember that you are not allowed to call abortion murder on listverse. You offend all of those people who have convinced themselves that it’s a perfectly fine form of birth control because you are legally allowed to do it. We need to protect them from being offended. No need to protect babies from acid being sprayed on them until they’re dead…but definately a need to not offend pro-choice people.
Nothing is more dangerous than a human with permission.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:35 am
@UoU (201): And what exactly is wrong with guilt? Guilt and shame are the grease that makes civilization work. It insures that we don’t make the same mistakes over and over again (well it’s supposed to, sometimes we’re pretty stupid as a species). It saves us from a myriad of sins. You know exactly what happens when folks have no shame. All manner of behaviour becomes acceptable.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:52 am
This is a great list, and I applaud the willingness to accept that not everything is all roses and peachy in American history. This list has nothing to do with making America look bad and whatnot, no nation is perfect but I am still grateful to live in such a wonderful country.
There are a few moments I’d consider:
-Space Shuttle Challenger exploding. Those of us older will never forget sitting in our classrooms when we got news of this tragedy. In those days when the internet and 24 hour media didn’t oversaturate our minds minute by minute, that tragedy stayed with us for quite a while. That this tragedy could have been prevented, and lives saved, makes it even more horrific.
-Assassination of JFK as others have pointed out
-All of the other covert operations the U.S. has engaged in other countries, which have propped up and supported regimes that tortured and murdered civilians
November 29th, 2009 at 11:57 am
khanis, the USSR had no real intention of invading or conquoring japan, they have no resourses to provide the japanese with and were a lower power, the only reason they agreed to possibly invade was because of thier proximity to japan, even so their support was wafering for them…plus the US gov’t at the time were appeasing the USSR, ie letting them have berlin when allied forces were clearly in position to take berlin first yet ordered to stop…i keep saying this…all you people who post comments…read a actual history book or atleast a scholarly article first, not some internet biased piece of shit that feeds your own biases
November 29th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
This list is incredibly innacurate
November 29th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
All you Euro fucks are welcome for saving your asses over and over again. How many Americans: White, Black, Latin Asian, Native Americans died so you could walk around like the free, shit talking, fagots that you are!
Talking all your shit while trying to dress, act, walk, talk, look, and be like us! Pathetic pieces of shit!
Funniest part is you still can’t get it right! Wearing wingtips with with your jogging suits, and a fuckin’ cowboy hats n’shit! FUCKING LOPS!
You ass-backward JEALOUS assholes can suck my big American dick! (It’s H-U-G-E…ask your Mom)
BTW, your welcome for electricity, computers, the Internet, and the FUCKING FREEDOM to use it you fucking fucks! You’d all still be throwing buckets of shit out your window and speaking German if it wasn’t for the US (except you fucks in Doucheland that already speak Douche).Let me catch one of you fucks saying some shit like that in person and I’ll bury you where ever I find you, you fucking fucks you…..
November 29th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Fidel ins’t in power anymore. Raul is the new President. That’s why there is the slight warming of US/Cuba relations.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Yes Ben R. Another fucking masterpiece.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
@dsharp (208):
You are what’s wrong with America.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
“US gov’t at the time were appeasing the USSR, ie letting them have berlin when allied forces were clearly in position to take berlin first yet ordered to stop”
Sorry, but its bullshit.
I heard in american schools their learning that USA won WWII. I can’t believe it’s true. As I know…USSR & Stalin won WWII. Americans entered the war when everybody already knew that Hitler is gonna be kaput. OK, I forgot English & French resistance.
But yes, American finished WWII when they dropped those god-blessed bombs.
Just to make it clear.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Shut up Pussy…
November 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
@BravehisTickle (14):
unfortunatly your arrogance is the reason people dislike americans, agreed america has a large say in global issues. but china and russia are major super-powers and even the european union is slowly forming a strong single entity. and incase you didnt know americas global power is slipping away economically as nations drop the dollar as a universal currency.
i predict china whooping the worlds ass at the drop of hat, hence the reason why the usa is brown-nosing at the min!
November 29th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
How could you not include Pearl Harbor????
November 29th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Worst Moment in Civilization:
Entire 300 years of America’s existence.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
America isn’t as awful as non-Americans say it is.
America isn’t as great as Americans say it is.
End of fucking conversation.
Good list – interesting historical content.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
really…no pearl harbor……no oklahoma city bombing….
this list is more of a “top ten things that americana has done to piss off the world”
November 29th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Are we forgetting the brutality inflicted by japanese on their combatants? Asian holocaust? Very quick to knock America when all nations have tremendous skeletons. Germany. Italy. Spain. England. Russia. China. Japan. All guilty. I see one theme from all this. We are no longer students of history as a society, so we continue to fall into the same traps.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
p.s. can we get a “worst moments in european history” or is America the only bastard nation in the world.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
I usually enjoy listverse. It’s fun and educational. But if this stinking pile of dung is typical of listverse “journalism” than I have to disregard anything I’ve ever read on this site.
It’s at best sloppy, shoddy work or deliberate leftist lies.
How about(as some have said) Pearl Harbor, JFK, Challenger, etc?
November 29th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
@mafs (214): Your comment is full to the brim with bullshit. You’re saying Russia is a major superpower, when in reality it is a extremely corrupt country whose population is decreasing at an incredible rate and is bound to collapse just like the Soviet Union. As for China, well to put it simply, is as close to becoming as powerful as the United States as you are becoming president. Finally, Europe will NEVER, EVER put itself together. It’s just impossible. And anyone else who wants to spew this ridiculous bullshit like ‘mafs’ here can lick my American ass.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Dropping the bomb on Hiroshima, just show how stupid Bush, Cheney and the other clowns are, when they demonize North Korea for having nuclear weapons. And it pisses me off, when people slag off Saddam Hussein. He was our best friend for years. And Dsharp calls Europe? Remember-EUROPE discovered America! It was NAMED by a GERMAN Martin Waldseemer, who named America, after the Italian explorer, Amerigo Vespucci. In the same way, Virginia, named after Queen Elizabeth, “The Virgin Queen,” Louisiana, after Louis XVI, New Orleans, after er, Orleans, Annapolis, after Queen Anne, New York, after er, York.. So basically America was named by a German, after an Italian, and most places there, are named after England and France.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
The election of Barack Obama will be remembered – by the survivors – as the worst moment in United States history.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
great list! i know this one and the one before are creating stupid tension. Um..I do disagree with the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing and I think that should have been a bonus, not the marcarthyism, with should have definitly been in the list. I’m glad the trail of tears and internment camps were on there!
November 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Because this guy has no idea what he’s talking about.
And for you that think I’m being brash regarding others opinions of Americans:
I don’t mind, and encourage people to voice their opinions about anything. That’s how thing change for the better.
What I detest are finger pointing crybabies that don’t have all the facts straight.
The world is FAR from perfect, and it will never be. Ever. That’s just a fact of life.
So when the shit hits the fan, as it does over and over again, you can sit there with your dick in your hand and get bullied around “praying” for someone to help you, or you can punch that “bully” in the nose.
If you were a Jew in WWII would you feel the same?
If you were Chinese (invaded, raped, and pillaged) prior to US involvement with Japan in the 40’s how would you feel about Hiroshima and Nagasaki (both cities were war machines BTW for those that insist we bombed innocent people. War is hell. Citizens back their countries and keep the war machine going. What would you have done?)
When all of you stop looking at America as a Country, and realize that being American is a state of mind, not a place you can find on a map, then maybe someday you’ll understand what I’m trying to tell you.
Don’t believe everything you read, hear, find online, or watch on TV. Propaganda will always be around because it works.
Use your head. Don’t ever let other people make decisions for you. That’s the only true freedom you’ll ever have.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Mom 424 I think you got me mixed up with someone else.
I pay for roads with my gas tax, my state tax, my income tax, the tax on tax. I pay for education with my property tax etc..
The one thing not being said in this debate: It is foolish to judge motivations of other periods in history through the lens of today’s morals and mores.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
also, alot of things that weren’t on this list should have been. I was hoping it would be more like American tradegies, not what they did wrong.
Like
9/11
Katrina
Challenger
JFK
Interment Camps
Trail of Tears
Slavery
I would have liked it to exclude wars and such and also opinions, cause usually on listverse, they veer to the left. but anyway, this was a good list.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
I find it quite disturbing that some people would consider the A-Bomb to be a “fine moment in history.” Whether it was necessary or unnecessary is debatable, but to call the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians “a fine moment” is ridiculous.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
@David (223): Most European names came from Celtic, Roman, and Greek. Also, a many, many, many places in the United States are named after Native Americans and their groups (eg. Sioux, Cherokee). It looks like you fall into league with our friend ‘mafs’ for extreme ignorance, David.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
bastard, learn what yoru talking about, do you think the soviet drive would have been as hard are as effective had their not been a creation of a 2nd front? and yes actually read about events such as the malta talks between roosevelt,churchill, and stalin, churchill was pushing for a stronger front and possible actions against the USSR, where as roosevelt did not wish to possibly enter into another global war like many wanted, appeased the USSR, hence why they were allowed to create iron fisted puppet regimes in places like chezch, hungry and others which violently put down all attempts to democratize their gov’ts
as for you heard…so you never been through american schools…neither have i, but you’ve heard well that is where the bullshit is, you actually have no clue, you just assume, esp the worst of things…things like that is what is wrong with society…and i mean all societies…ppl assume with out proper research…like if you put any effort into learning what your talking about you’d know that yes the US did not single handedly win the war, but with out the US who knows what would have happened…britain would prolly not have held out as long as they did, how do you think they paid for their war and got the resources for it…check out the lend lease program, or the resourses sent to the USSR, who only got involved in the war when hitler decided to invade them…also the US presence helped protect britain from invasion…as for everyone else whose european…just look at the marshall plan…12,000,000 yes twelve billion was given to western europe, not lent but given, for rebuilding…also i want every person who has hate for america thats from western europe…look around in places like normandy, and other spots because from 1918 – 1945, many thousands of young americans gave up thier lives so you can have the ones you have today, just think that…i agree hate american politics, thats fine thats respectable, but don’t hate the american people…they bled for you..you owe them your respect…at the least!
November 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
I think the list should have taken into consideration the amount of life that would have been lost to end WWII without the use of the atomic bomb. The invasion of Japan would have been inevitable and very costly.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
@TJ2017 (231): I’m partially agree with, yet not about huge role of America in WWII. Yes, I know about land-lease, when their send tanks, aircrafts & egg-powder to USSR in exchange of european territories. Yes it is. I also know what is Normandy, and I got nothing to tell against American soldiers. Everyone did their work, but yet American role is not so huge as you sayin’. I believe British & French did a lot more.
Europe was completely divided between USSR & USА. USA territories – capitalist countries, USSR territories – Communist countries. And about Polish, Hungarian etc countries. USSR freed them from nazis, so what they was expecting? Thank you, we’ll work with Americans. It’s a price the needed to pay.
I don’t hate American people. I’m actually love your culture & your heroes. I just think American culture nowadays greatly degrading, as a Russian culture though…
But maybe it’s because I was on the USSR side, and you was on another. Sorry for bad english.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
@dsharp (226):
‘When all of you stop looking at America as a Country, and realize that being American is a state of mind, not a place you can find on a map, then maybe someday you’ll understand what I’m trying to tell you.’
And the award for most retarded thing said by anybody ever goes to…..
November 29th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I think McCarthyism should be on another one of our misconceptions lists. What really happened was that Joseph McCarthy gathered a list from the State Department records, found a bunch of people who were affiliated with Communist fronts and told the Tydings Commitee that these people may or may not be a part of the communist party, and that they should probably be investigated more thoroughly. Tydings took this personally and decided that he was going to investigate McCarthy himself, rather than his claims in an attempt to discredit him, which is why our history books are so cruel to Joseph McCarthy
November 29th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
If there is a list made on the worst moments in US History, would it be too much to ask to keep the politics out of it? The Battle of Antietam, the Stock Market Crash and 9/11 transcend time and politics. Some of the others were horrible choices made at a time when there were societal circumstances that pressured their unfortunate neccessity. There are others, like the atomic bombings in Japan, that actually saved over a million lives. If all nine atomic weapons scheduled to be used against Japan had been dropped, then I could see it on this list.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
@archiealt(234):
You prove my point…shithead.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
@archiealt (134):
I’m guessing I obtain my news from more sources than you. And no, I don’t watch CNN. Nor FOX or MSNBC. Nor any television at all, for that matter.
Nor am I limited to just American news. It’s hilarious you think I, here on the World Wide Web, can’t access Der Spiegel, Al Jazeera, or Asia Times.
Try again.
And while you’re at it, grow up.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
@dsharp (208): Ahem, electricty; well we can start by thanking Faraday for his momental leaps in current, magnetism & charge theory, computers; another wonderful start by Alan Turing, and the internet; hmmm, if I’m not mistaken that wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Tim Berners-Lee. Obviously I’m missing out a tonne of American and non-American inventors and contributors but my point to you dsharp, is that America didn’t invent everything.
Also, Russia was of more help in WW2, and did more damage to the Nazis than the US, you must have forgotten them when you were taking all of the glory eh? I also speak German too so I guess you didn’t do too well there either.
But hey, if it wasn’t for us “Euro fucks” out here, you wouldn’t be speaking our language, and horrendously misspelling it too. No need to thank us, we don’t need to compensate for anything … (I spoke to my mum last night)
November 29th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
bastard, i think we do agree with each other just view things from a diff point you view the USSR’s role as lead and i View the USA’s, UK, and Canada’s roles, as lead for victory, adn to be honest i think with out the creation of two fronts by the other neither side would have won…but in places like chezch, poland, hungry during the cold war, a good many of political figures did die due to political extermination as they were seen as a threat to the gov’t…didn’t happen on the western side…also i disagree with the french part…they folded like a wet towel, i give praise to the resistance but my god the magiot line was a friggen joke, they tried to scuttle thier own navy so the nazi’s didn’t get it and the british had to come in and do it for them…thankfully they had lots of practice over the years…i think its unfair for ppl to criticise the US, while having their hand out for aid and or political support!
November 29th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
@Jackshit
You’re fuckin’ funny you fuck you…
November 29th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
@dsharp (241): thanks, I try.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I think we need another list about cats.
The United States is a great country, but there are times that it seems where the worst moments in American history are when thin-skinned American neo-cons start typing on internet forums or offering opinions on the rest of the world.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
@TJ2017 (240): I do agree with you now. Finally, somebody, to have a nice conversation with. I think you’re right about different views and sides. Maybe we’re all children of propaganda machines of our countries. )
P.S. Just wondering, maybe you remember American singer Dean Reed, chewed off by Cold War machine, and now lost & forgotten… I’m always was interested, how he was received on the American side.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
@Arsnl (92): Coming across your “submarine stories” posts is about like being the passenger in the car that has a little kid repeating “Are we there yet?!…are we there yet?!”.
I’m only 1/2 way through comments… I’m hoping the other half isn’t a continuation of the same car ride.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Yeah, I know a lot of English names come from Celtic Roman and so on. And if places in America, aren`t named after us and France, what the hell was New England, New Hampshire, Plymouth, Jamestown and so on named after?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
What happened to all the fun lists? What’s with all these lists that are just shit stirring? Come on Listverse, surely you know better than this…
November 29th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
What about slavery??? Or society-accepted racism in general?
Come on, we had a food called “niggertoes”. I’m most ashamed of that, well that and the murder of the native americans.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
@David (246): Did I ever deny that a lot of American place names came from you Brits and France? No, I didn’t. Use your eyes, smartass.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I would just like to point out that this list doesn’t indicate that all of these things were mistakes. It only labels them as some of the worst days in US history. The list makes no stance on whether or not the bombs were justified. It just says that they made for a bad day. If you don’t think that the your country was responsible for the deaths of thousands was a bad day then thats sad. And to those saying they are tired of the “America bashing” there are far more lists glorifying America and its accomplishments than than the opposite. Americans often come across as being able to dish it but not take it. They’re happy to speak out judgement on the evils of other countries but don’t you day a word against their beloved America. I don’t hate America. But I do agree that all the things on this list were very bad days in their history. Which is all the list claims.
ps Some of these posts are so painfully and ignorantly redneck I can barely stand it. A post near the beginning mentioned that it was right to force the natives from their land because “they weren’t doing anything progressive with it”. Wow. I guarantee you the land would be in much better shape if it still belonged to the Natives. They at least had a respect for it. What the hell does progressive mean anyways? They were using it to make money? Sick, sad Westernized thinking.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I made a typo in the statement “if you don’t think that the your country was responsible for the deaths of thousands was a bad day then thats sad.” It should have read “if you don’t think that the DAY your country was responsible for the deaths of thousands was a bad day then thats sad.”
November 29th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
This list should be titled “10 bad moments in US history” and not “worst.” Watergate could be up there, as it literally fucked the country up for almost a decade. Also, the entire civil war as opposed to Antietam would have been a better choice.
It appears to me that many people here don’t know about Operation Downfall. Yes, the two bombs were a horrible event, but had Truman not used them, what would have followed would have been among the most terrible events in the history of humanity. By the end of 1945 the US would have invaded Japan and the Soviets would have tagged along pretty soon. It’s stupid to make assumptions, but my guess is Japan would be a country in ruins by 1950, probably divided, and the US and USSR would have added millions to their losses. Japan wouldn’t be what it is today and the world in general would be just different. And yes, civilians would have died, MANY of them, probably tens of millions of them.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
And in the last sentence it should read “they WEREN’T using it to make money?” No “were”.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Andres: Did you see what I was pointing out though? The list didn’t say they shouldn’t have dropped the bombs. Just that it was a bad moment. Thousands lost their lives due to a decision made by America. Right or not, thats a bad moment.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Max.
You are so right
The internet never lies!
November 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
@Spiff17 (250): No. Those posts aren’t redneck. They are written by incredibly ignorant, asinine and possibly mentally ill fools. I completely agree about the land being in better shape if the Indians were still there, though.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
#6 should be #1 not only for the murder toll but also for future implications.
9/11 shouldn’t be on the list, it made many americans very wealthy.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
@ icarusfoundyou (#247): That is probably the smartest comment I have seen in months. Looking at the archives, all the old lists are much more fun and entertaining.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
@icarusfoundyou (247):
“What happened to all the fun lists? What’s with all these lists that are just shit stirring? Come on Listverse, surely you know better than this…”
20 More Fascinating Factlets
10 Residents of the Capuchin Catacombs
Top 10 Unusual Cat Breeds
Top 10 Firsts in Feature Films
Yet Another 10 Commonly Believed Myths
Top 10 Bizarre Tourist Attractions
10 More Must-See Episodes of the Twilight Zone
Top 10 Scariest Filipino Monsters
Top 10 Badass Movie Villains
Top 10 New Year Traditions
10 Movies That Are So Bad They Are Good
Top 10 Ancient Jobs That Sucked Big Time
Top 10 Snipers in History
Top 10 Tips for Urban Exploration
…you think these lists were designed to “stir shit”? Idiot.
@Drew (248):
“What about slavery??? Or society-accepted racism in general?
Come on, we had a food called “niggertoes”. I’m most ashamed of that, well that and the murder of the native americans.”
You don’t know what a “moment” is, do you?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
I find some of the outrage here quite sad, but not unexpected. It’s almost as if any list on this website can point out the wrongdoings of other nations and peoples, and it’s no big problems, yet once anyone DARES to make a list showing America, warts and all, it is time to express furor and outrage.
Such hypocrisy and double standards.
For example, Japanese and German war atrocities have been a somewhat regular staple here on Listverse. I didn’t see many of you having issues with those being mentioned, or whenever the bad of other countries are highlighted. Yet the good old USA is untouchable? Not a single negative thing can be mentioned about America without a counterbalance?
Ridiculous, no wonder the US has such a poor image abroad.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
@plasmatwa2 (258):
“#6 should be #1 not only for the murder toll but also for future implications.”
Jesus Christ, people on the Internet are unbelievably stupid. THIS IS IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, FOLKS.
“9/11 shouldn’t be on the list, it made many americans very wealthy.”
What a pathetic lowlife.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
@Ana (142): At today’s point of history, America IS the only country to have used an atomic weapon in wartime against another country. That means America IS the only country that has to deal with the guilt, finger pointing and hate of the rest of the world regarding such an act.
And that’s in respect to a weapon that was in it’s infancy in regards to technological evolution, at the time of it’s use.
At the time of history that we deployed the bombs, our country had a stable government, stable enough to be an enviable example to many other countries world-wide.
Things have changed on a world wide basis…Many countries DO have nuclear weaponry…The US is not charging in to disarm these countries. But if we DO take a pro-active stance to keep countries with a “Shaky at best” government nuclear free…perhaps it is because we DO know and remember what these oh so clean and sterile looking packages of destruction can really do.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
You forgot the “War on Drugs.”
November 29th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
@triviafan (260):
Blind, much? Most of the Americans here, myself included, have no problem with this list. But you don’t even notice them, because you’re so intent on seeing the “ugly American”.
Quit seeing the world the way you want to see it. Reality comes in shades of more than just black and white.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
OMGGG fuck off with all these American lists !!!!!
it was alright when the baseball list came out, even the NFL list… but fuck then we have the best and worse moments in US history…
what is with this jfrater?
and america even exisiting is THE worst moment/incident in the universes history.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
@triviafan (260): nice comment, totally agree
November 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
@triviafan (260):
I in no way think that the US is without fault. But I DO think that the atrosities committed by Japan and Germany are far worse than those committed by the United States.
Holocaust, Japanese rape of China…?
November 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
hey make a list about top 10 worst moments of jewish people
November 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Europe is not a country guys, stop referring to to it as one, and ughh USA has a high chance of bankruptcy in the next 50 years, so that 50 percent incomne tax looks inevitable, but noooo ppl in usa just loves to dodge taxes…..recipe for disaster man, somebody invent something that will save usa, like cure for AIDS
November 29th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
@calm_incense (264): I completely agree
November 29th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
stefan:
go to hell, asshole.
if all american people did was bash the UK, you would all have your knickers in a bunch. we deal with that kind of ignorance all the time.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
NOW i am just kinding
jfrtater if you are reading this commmentary plz make the list cuz you are my favorite list makers about top ten worst meoments of jewish people
November 29th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
@katieeeeeee (271): I’m not defending stephen, and we deal with it too. The most frequent and obnoxious comment we hear from the small minority of Americans is something along the lines of “if it wasn’t for us, you’d all be speaking German.”
Then we just hear the collective sigh of us Brits and the rest of the Americans. Shame people only see the worst in people.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
@stefan (265): Shut the fuck up. I don’t think anyone has a problem with making a Top 10 Best or Worst moments in British, Phillipine, or French history. But the United States is the most powerful country in the world so why not with this list?
@barney frank (268): Fuck up, rasist asshole.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
@katieeeeeee (271): its not ignorance though, sure america has helped many nations, especially preventing the nazi’s from screwing up the world.
but i am educated, even though my previous comment may have suggested otherwise, and i read into things and dont just accept them at face value (like how FOX news etc. portray events)
but look at all the crap america has gotten into, and also effected the world… so corrupt, so money/power driven…
my previous cmnt may have been arrogant and blunt, but america has done some fucked up shit that left the world in ruins
November 29th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
jack:
I agree. A small amount of Americans give the rest of us a bad name, and it’s the same for you all. Unfortunately, the people we wish would stay quiet are often the loudest.
seeing someone actually write that America existing was the worst thing that has happened just pissed me off though.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
stefan:
and we’re the only ones?
as good ol bob said
“before you point fingers make sure your hands are clean”
November 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@Davy (274): if there were a list constantly based on lets so “european handball” or european based sports/events i would have a problem with that… it has nothing to do with me disliking america, it has nothing to do with that.
i just look forward to coming to this site to learn/entertain myself, and all that is shown is constant american issues.
if for every american list it were a french list, i would still have the same view, it has nothing to do with america.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
@The Music Hearer (235): Then it really is a blessing the Patriot Act was not in effect when McCarthy was a busy little American, eh?
November 29th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
@katieeeeeee (276): Yeah I saw similar comments to that. Very ignorant indeed, and I feel the same way when some idiot starts the same tirade against the UK. It’s not perfect, but it’s home.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
This list is incomplete.
Where is Waco?
Where is the entire Vietnam war?
Where are the anthrax attacks?
Where is Virginia Tech or Columbine?
Where are Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, or David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)?
Where is the Jonestown mass suicide (yeah, Jonestowns wasn’t in the USA, but they were American people)
Where is the Oklahoma City bombing?
I also disagree with the dropping of the bomb entry, in my opinion, it’s possible that it saved a lot of both American and Japanese lives. Had we not dropped the bomb the war would have continued probably until America launched a full attack, which would have cost hundreds of thousands of American and Japanese casualties. But I don’t want to get into an argument about that, it’s just my opinion, and I of course think that dropping the bomb on cities without warning was in a way a cheap shot, but it was the biggest war the world had ever seen.
Wow…
America’s had some tough times.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
@calm_incense (238):
That’s terrible. So you are well aware of all the issues surrounding American foreign policy and yet you still choose to support the amazing fuck up that is the invasion of Iraq. What about Afghanistan? I guess you were just helping those guys out as well. Or maybe it was a necessary part of the ‘War On Terror’. Either way i’m sure we can come to agreement whereby America comes out as the ‘Good Guys’.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
@stefan (278):
You don’t seem to realize that these are user-contributed lists. Everyone is free to submit any list he or she wishes. The fact is, nearly 50% of all visitors on ListVerse are from the United States. You should be glad that one out of every two lists here isn’t about America.
I can assure you that were you to go to a website in which 50% of the visitors were from China, you’d see a HELL of a lot more about China than you do here about the United States.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
@katieeeeeee (277): lol this will be my last comment, im taking up all the comment space here
i know you’re not the only ones, but this list is about america, and this is why i am saying that america has done bad things, if it were china, i would say the same for china and any nation for that matter.
apologies for being a racist, i just read a lot into american politics/corruptions and it makes me pissed, and then its driven even greater by all these american based lists.
but anyway, i still feel that these list should be more “fun” like it was a while ago, and not so politically driven, this site is becoming like youtube, stupid/blind people posting pointless comments, not saying that i am excluded from that group lol, but i am sure ppl would agree.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
@stefan (278): Now you’re actually talking sense. I agree that there should be more non-American history lists to balance out all the American history lists flooding in.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
stefan:
it’s okay. I called you an asshole (sorry).
I understand. I sort of wanted to go on an anti-UK tirade but there were already plenty. I agree completely.. I come here for fun lists.
When I see American lists, my heart sinks a little bit because I know America is about to get trashed. so oh well. I’m done with comments on here too :]
November 29th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
@Phender_Bender (281):
“Where is Waco?
Where is the entire Vietnam war?
Where are the anthrax attacks?
Where is Virginia Tech or Columbine?
Where are Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, or David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)?
Where is the Jonestown mass suicide (yeah, Jonestowns wasn’t in the USA, but they were American people)
Where is the Oklahoma City bombing?”
Other than the Vietnam War, all of those were rather minor and inconsequential. And 7raul7 already included the Vietnam War, so I don’t know what more you’re expecting.
@archiealt (282):
Not once did I ever say I supported it. I simply pointed out that it was not necessarily “evil” in intent or universally disastrous in consequence. I personally would have much rather preferred my country to have saved all those hundreds of billions of American taxpayer dollars and saved its international reputation from complete wreckage, and just let those people suffering in the prisons and dungeons of Saddam Hussein to get what was coming to them.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
@Davy (285): im glad you agree
maybe lists such as “greatest american inventions or best american musicians” may be better for a site such as this.
@calm_incense (283): i dont think that this website being mostly visited by americans is justifiable for all these american lists. Imagine if the world followed those same view as you do. Even if it is user submitted, im sure there are plenty of americans who submit lists in which do not contain things about america..
jafrater is from new zealand, yet he never posts NZ based lsits, not even when he first founded the website!
but it is a fair enough point.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
As for this list itself….Perhaps a little too soon after the “Best Moments” list. Meaning the the items chosen are too obtuse.
I agree with other commenters…Political assassinations… botched homeland debacles like Waco and Ruby Ridge…terribly inhumane and unethical experiments like Tuskegee…the mass destruction by mother nature as in Katrina…left-out.
A more defining use of the word “worst” and so a more accurate and encompassing list, as opposed to “10 things that will make an American bashing session eminent” in the comments section.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
@calm_incense (283):
You were right.
Listverse.com users come from these countries:
47.8%United States
9.7%India
6.7%United Kingdom
4.8%Canada
2.3%Germany
More…
Courtesy: alexa.com
November 29th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Horrible list because it contained to many items that are disagreeable.
The list mentions Dredd Scott, but says nothing about slavery.
Invasion of Iraq? What about the freeing of millions of Iraqis from a madman. Yes maybe the reasons were wrong, but the results are admirable. That doesn’t make it a “worst moment”.
Bombing of Japan? It can’t be a worst decision when the alternatives would probably be much worse.
Stupid Stupid Stupid list.
Plus you don’t have to be a thin-skinned neo-con to be offended by several items on this list.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
BTW – Great comments deezinger.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
@stefan (288): I like the idea about a American musicians list making a better topic
. And Jamie DID actually make at least one New Zealand based list (I believe it’s about the country’s government).
November 29th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
@stefan (288):
“i dont think that this website being mostly visited by americans is justifiable for all these american lists.”
“All these American lists”? What the hell are you talking about? FOUR out of the last ONE-HUNDRED-AND-FOUR lists have been about the US, and half of them reflect the US in a negative light (worst moments in US history and American criminals). All in all, roughly THIRTY-FOUR out of NINE-HUNDRED-AND-SIXTY-FIVE articles on ListVerse are about the US. That amounts to a measly 3.5%. THAT’S what you’re bitching about?
“im sure there are plenty of americans who submit lists in which do not contain things about america..”
Uh…thank you for making my point for me. And yes, you’re right. The number of Americans on this site outweighs the number of articles about the US by a margin of 1,366%. That’s ONE-THOUSAND-THREE-HUNDRED-AND-SIXTY-SIX PERCENT. Again, THAT’S what you’re bitching about?
November 29th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
BOO HOO HOO AMERICA BOO HOO HOO
November 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
I’ll put it another way:
96.5% of the lists on ListVerse AREN’T about the US, and yet half of all ListVerse visitors are from the US.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
@calm_incense (294): Nice statistics.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
@Emmett Brown (7): Wouldn’t he be a doucebag with a gun?
November 29th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
For God`s sake, can we give it a bloody rest about America`s crap human rights record, and Japan in China and Nazi Germany. All countries do bad things, at some point or another. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, will always be controversial, and the bombing of Dresden will be. And China call Japan for The Rape of Nanking, well, what about Mao Zedong, and The Great Leap Forward, which killed 10`s of millions? And the way people go on about Hitler and the Holocaust, it`s just a joke. You`d think there hasn`t been any genocides since.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
300
November 29th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Meet the Spartans
November 29th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Davy, certainly those were horrible, more than some on this list. But I’m just saying it seems some get so riled up over these things and not others.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
If this were a list of 10 worst moments in China’s history, or 10 worst aspects of (pick your religion), then SOME here who get so riled up over anything remotely negative about their home countries would then have no problems with such lists. That is what I’m trying to say.
You can’t please em all the time.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Stupid stupid list. A bias-base Iraq blunder is worst than 9/11? Seriously.
I’m glad we’re so quick to shoot America in the foot. Unfortunately its “proud citizens” are the ones who shoot the US first.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
I agree with Hurricane Katrina..
November 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
No offense, ut I don’t consider the atomic bombings of Japan to be a worst moment in our history. Hell, WWII was the worst moment in Earth’s history. Atomic bombings are just part of warfare. What General Sherman did to the South (and I’m Southern) was just as ruthless, because it was war waged on the civilian population. But it’s been done that way for a long time. You start wasting unarmed civilians, and the civilians that are left will rapidly tell their military to give it up. The military, by comparison, is well-disciplined and much more difficult to demoralize.
And anyway, the atomic bombings saved a lot of US Marines.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Why is the dropping of the atom bomb one of the worst moments?
November 29th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
i wouldn’t call dropping the bomb a “worst moment” since it was the best of bad options. Where is the Pearl harbor attack? That would be probably the worst moment in American history(next to 9/11) because it was the first attack on American soil. And by the way to all the America hating people out there, give one GOOD reason why america sucks.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Yes, and have you ever met a Chinese person hearing a Westerner talking about China’s problems? You haven’t seen “riled up” until you’ve seen a Chinazi. Go to The Economist’s website, take a look at some articles about China, and then take a look at the comments from pissed-off Chinese who swear The Economist (and Western media in general) is “anti-Chinese”. All this because The Economist does something as “provocative” as, say, suggesting China’s growth rate will only be 6%, or the Yuan should increase in value for both China’s and the US’s sakes.
Try bringing up the Dalai Lama and see how far that gets you.
People who think nationalistic double standards are unique to the US are incredibly naive.
Not to mention, the only “defending” I’ve seen here are for the Iraq War and the Japanese bombings. Neither of these are comparable to either the Holocaust or Japanese wartime atrocities, either by casualty count or brutality. The US killed roughly 220,000 Japanese by dropping two bombs. In Nanking alone, the Japanese killed over 300,000 Chinese by raping, shooting, bayoneting, decapitating, burying alive, crushing, flaying, and hacking them to death, one by one. This doesn’t even include grotesque endeavors such as Unit 731, which itself was but one of several facilities for equally horrific purposes. Don’t even TRY to compare Guantanamo Bay to Unit 731.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
^ By the way, that was to triviafan.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
@landhog (291) What about the 92,489 – 100,971 civilians who “got in the way”? (source: iraq body count)
And whaddya mean the “…the results are admirable”?
Half the world if not more hate you now, and Iraq isn’t any better.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
@304: This list is in chronological order, but I agree that it’s a crappy one.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Item #7: 1961 + 44 years = 2005. Come on, at least proof-read the stuff you lift!
November 29th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Regarding the dropping of the Atomic bomb(s) as a “worst moment” and the comment “It completely ignored the fact that war is between armies, not civilians.”
I encourage the author to review some history books prior to demonizing the US by farcically implying the evil USA targetted civilians and nobody else did. Read up on the London Blitz, the Rape of Nanking and the Holocaust. Look at the FACTS about strategic bombing of CITIES and not the lice pretty little “in through a window” weapons available today. Entire cities were wiped out on both sides as the result of strategic bombing rail yards, munitions factories and the national morale. Breaking the morale of the country was the point behind the bombings of London, Warsaw, Berlin, Dresden, Tokyo, Nagasaki and Hiroshima among others. Yes, it WAS a nasty way of warfare but to imply the the USA was the only entity to bomb cities in WWII is nothing but bull shine. Had you bothered to pop your head out of your ivory tower and read the bombing in context then I am reasonably certain you would have a differing opinion/slant on that item. But that would require a modicum of rational and lucid thought on your part and so maybe I should not expect so much.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
You know if you are going to continue making lists of this nature, it would be more honest of you to just come right out and declare yourself a communist.
Shame on you for taking advantage of curious interweb users who are unclear on what exactly subversive cultural marxism is and how to defend against it.
Of course the true nature of any communist is never to be honest, not even for a second so I won’t hold my breath waiting for you to become goodly. But feel free to hold yours, as I’m well aware the only good commies are dead ones.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
@DavidTehGnome (315): Are you on drugs or something? Subversive Cultural Marxism! I want some of those drugs too. )
November 29th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
The worst moments list should have at least included a presidential assassination such as Lincoln or Kennedy, because those are terrible moments too. 9/11 will be cemented in history as the worst day ever, because it’s the only tragedy recognizable by the date. Even if you aren’t american, you should have felt bad on that day, because that’s not just an attack on America, but the reputation of the entire middle east and anybody of that heritage. It was a mistake in every possible way and nobody should be proud of it.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
@recklesslove (304):
I’ve been keeping out of this one, but of course the Iraq war is worse than 9/11, it has cost 300 times as many lives.
@Scott (314):
The use of an atomic weapon on an unwarned civilian populace was justified because the Nazis bombed London? Before you get so furious about this list, there are a couple of things you should take into consideration. First of all, the writer did NOT imply that “the USA was the only entity to bomb cities in WWII”. Secondly, it is a historical fact that our side was responsible for far worse bombing raids upon civilians than the Axis forces. They are at best difficult to justify. When someone points that out your first reaction shouldn’t be to shit yourself and accuse the writer of being biased and unrational.
What is written up there is technically true – bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki DID ignore the fact that those places were full of civilians. If they didn’t ignore that fact then they wouldn’t have bombed it. Don’t act as if there is only one side to the issue, because there bloody well isn’t.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Lists such as this (wherein a lot of comments are generated) are great for the site, especially from a cost-analysis angle. Every page hit means more advertising profits.
Face it, “My 10 favorite kitty cats” doesn’t generate 300+ comments, a great response especially for a Sunday.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
@bassbait (317):
I agree with the sentiments of what you’re saying, but there were a couple of points which aren’t quite accurate; firstly, it is not the only atrocity recognised by its date. This may be true in America, but not in the rest of the world. Secondly, when you say it is the “worst day ever”, do you mean it is the worst day ever for America or for the world? It is far from the worst day in world history. Finally, while it is true that everyone should be appalled by 9/11, it was not an attack on “the reputation of the entire middle east and anybody of that heritage”. A reaction like that is borderline racist. It’s like saying all white people should be held accountable for slavery, or all Germans should be held responsible for the Holocaust. It is only an attack on the reputation of the Middle East if one chooses to view the whole of the Middle East as somehow implicit in it, or liable to be such.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
“My 10 favorite kitty cats”
…
Do it.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Let’s not forget that the communists started the Vietnam war and Japan started the war with America. The author also “forgot” that Italians and Germans were also put into camps. McCarthyism? How about the modern day verison? Why is it that the oppressed masses heard about the Duke lacrosse team on an hourly basis but the Knoxville murders didn’t even make one slot on the national media?
November 29th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
You must be kidding me. This list is completely backwards. The fact that our entire country is stolen land from innocent victims our ancestors murdered, lied to and manipulated is far worse than Bush’s 9/11 conspiracy.
The BS politics of today are absolutely nothing compared to the horrendous things that happened in the past.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
@Alucard (322):
“Let’s not forget that the communists started the Vietnam war”
No they didn’t.
“and Japan started the war with America.”
So they deserved to get nuked?
“The author also “forgot” that Italians and Germans were also put into camps.”
Why the inverted commas? If anything that little tidbit of information is something that would back up the writer’s point.
“McCarthyism? How about the modern day verison? Why is it that the oppressed masses heard about the Duke lacrosse team on an hourly basis but the Knoxville murders didn’t even make one slot on the national media?”
What does that have to do with McCarthyism?
November 29th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
I reread it and realized that it was in chronological order, not even 10-1. Sorry for my previous post.
These are definitely all terrible moments in American history.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
@danmoo (6): Yeah, how about the entire Civil War? That event damaged the US forever.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Woyzeck yer an idiot. You rather limited use of logic is a apparent as your lack of history.
First of all they were cities that were part of the Japanese war machine.
Secondly, they were warned. We told the Japanese (both civilian and government) that we had a terrible weapon and didn’t want to use it.
Thirdly, what did you want the US to do? Some say demonstrate it off of the island. Are you fucking kidding me?! I guess the Japanese would allow us to fly up to their shores and just let us drop a bomb off of their coast. Bullshit! And the bombs were new technology. New tech has a high failure rate. What if the damn thing didn’t go off?
Also, we only had a few of them at the time. We used one to test the technology. That left us with 3 total. it’s very likely they wouldn’t surrender if they knew this.
They invasion of Iwo Jima cost 20,000 Japanese lives only about 1,000 survived and were captured. And that was Iwo Jima! A zit in the middle of the Pacific. On Okinawa the Japanese lost 100,000 soldiers and the Americans lost over 12,000. There were also about 142,000 civilian lifes lost, mostly through killing themselves rather than be captured. And, you think that dropping those bombs were somehow immoral? Tokyo was just as devastated. But that’s ok because they used conventional bombs?! I doubt that the tokyo populace would make that argument.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Japan deserved to be nuked
November 29th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Lol’d @ how ending WWII was one of America’s “worst moments”.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
The title of the list should be clarified. It should read
“The 10 worst moments in US History according to liberal minded people.”
If you asked people who did not get indoctrinated in public schools, universities, or vote Democrat the list would look significantly different.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
@Scott (314): Just because a many other countries decided to terror civilians through bombing their cities does not justify the US from returning the favor at the horrific scale they did to the Japanese civilians. “Context” is irrelevant when discussing the massive loss of innocent lives. Yes, other countries also did many deplorable acts by attacking civilians in the war. However, NONE of these events from any of these countries, including the A-Bomb attacks, should be excused from being horrible moments for humanity. That is the sad nature of war.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Doug, you didn’t understand a single part of my post, did you?
First off, they may have been “part of their war machine” (read: any large city during war time), but they were non-combatants. There are certain wartime conventions which were ignored in order to attack these cities. Secondly, no America did NOT tell Japan that they “had a terrible weapon”, what they did was promise to wipe out Japan’s military and infrastructure if they didn’t surrender. It was the same as any other ultimatum given during the war and as expected the Japanese ignored it.
Who said anything about telling Japan America only had three nukes?
About the carpet bombing of Tokyo – did I say that I thought that was OK, buddy boy? No I did not. So don’t try and invent arguments for yourself to reply to.
As it happens I wrote my bloody dissertation on Allied carpet bombing during the Second World War. I barely touched on the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki due to the different nature of that attack. But don’t try and tell me I have a “lack of history” because son, I know enough about this subject to yap – ACCURATELY – for days, something I cannot say for you.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Smart of you to do this list chronologically. More people should be doing it this way. I got flustered by the order, but then saw that comment.
Smart way to organize a controversial list.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
@fredlester (330):
Yes, I’m pretty sure it would look different if it was written by someone who didn’t go to school or university. It would probably include things like “Barney the Dinosaur getting cancelled” and “When the Grinch stole Christmas”.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
This is interesting, but I didn’t confirm it’s authenticity:
http://www.damninteresting.com/ww2-america-warned-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-citizens
November 29th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
What the hell happened to the numbering? ;| 1-10? It is supposed to be 10-1, right?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
“At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of some industrial and military significance. A number of military camps were located nearby, including the headquarters of the Fifth Division and Field Marshal Shunroku Hata’s 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan. Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops.”
That took me just couple of minutes to find. Read up son.
Although the words terrible weapon was not used they DID know through the Potsdam Declaration that we would level the country if we had to.
We DID drops leaflets all over Japan to warn them. But we couldn’t tell them exactly which cities we would attack could we?
We easily saved millions of lives because the Japanese inability to surrender thus dooming their own people.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Sorry, #6 is out of total ignorance. If you are coming from it at a civilian angle, far more civilians died during the fire bombing raids.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
*yawn* Every time you flame several assholes, even more crop up. Well, better get to bed, big work day tomorrow…
November 29th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
http://www.damninteresting.com/ww2-america-warned-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-citizens
This was posted earlier
November 29th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Interesting list I suppose, but, you should have done more research. And learn to proofread. Reading through this was dreadful because of all the grammatical and sentence errors.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
@Doug B (340):
I must of missed it. Is there any veracity to it? Were the cities warned?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
This list makes no sense. Some entries are events that happened to America, while others are events that America initiated; so “Worst” is arbitrary here.
@stefan (288): It’s people like you that will eventually cause jfrater to abandon this site with their unyielding bitching…Also, if it wasn’t for America, you wouldn’t be able to make your stupid comments here since the internet was developed in the country.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
This list would be better if it was unknown worst moments. Events that are not common knowledge.
Great list though.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
#10 is interesting…since the human rights crowd remains silent on freeing tens of millions of Iraqis from a dictator that actually tortured his own people, not the mindless “playing loud music” or “waterboarding” that some mouth breathers think is torture.
I’d like to see a World’s Best Moments in the 20th century and you’d see the United States was behind a lot of great things…unless you’re a climate scientist and you just make stuff up about anthropogenic global warming…
November 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
346th comment. Yippee!
November 29th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
I am not one who normally posts my comments but i feel i have to voice my opinions regarding No. 6 of this list. I strongly disagree that bombing japan was one of the worst moments in the US history, nor was it the most glorious. But i believe the united states did what it had to do and I’m glad they did. You see, I’m singaporean and back in the days during the japanese occupation, my country was called Syonan-to and was invaded by the japanese. Lots of killing and raping done here, hell if i know what else they did. If the united states did not bomb the japanese in hiroshima and nagasaki, I have no idea what would become of my country standing today.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
I think the re-election of George Bush is definitely deserving of at least a bonus on this list. I was amazed that Americans could have any shred of confidence in him after the first term…
November 29th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Dropping the bomn ould just about have to be #1
November 29th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Thanks Pawnfart. I wish more people in the world, that we’ve helped, would appreciate our sacrifices for them.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
You should show both sides…the Ten Best Moments in US History as well.
[Signature deleted - we don't allow that here]
November 29th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
312 comments and at least 300 of them are idiotic.
Look up the definition of “moment”. Slavery was not a moment for example.
Regarding the list, it’s marginal overall but the editing is bad. For example : “Today, 44 years later, Fidel Castro, a diehard enemy of the United States, is still in power. The plan was launched in April 1961,” I believe that adds up to 2005 so yeah, Fidel was still in power then. It would be a good idea to read your list before submitting it to make sure it makes sense.
My interpretation of what this list was supposed to be based on the title was worst things inflicted on others/another country/the world either directly or indirectly by the American government. The list is in compliance with that definition. So no, the Oklahoma City bombing does not belong on this list.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
aaa really? Our choice was Bush or that spineless twat. No brainer. (Oh and you’re going to talk about Bush being dumb, he had higher grades at Harvard and Yale than either Kemp or Gore.)
November 29th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Make that 351 comments. It took a while to read the first 312.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Dropping the Bomb
“(It completely ignored the fact that war is between armies, not civilians)”
War is between nations, not just armies.
Saying that war is between armies is too simplistic thinking.
A war is fought by armies. The civilians fund the war. And it’s the nation that declares war.
In a war effort, everybody participates. Civilians are … not … that … innocent. (Britney)
November 29th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Err, why isn’t slavery anywhere on this list?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
@CataclysmicStar: Because slavery was not a moment and it was not something our government caused. It was perpetuated by individuals while our government looked the other way.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
There are good people and then there are bad people.
Whenever the American system wrongs, its people stand united against it. (forget the Bush election and re-election, they were rigged no doubt)
We can’t forget the Anti-Vietnam war movement or the Iraq war protests, can we??
Its just the thing I always feel, that the system named democracy is flawed… whether it be America or Russia, Pakistan or Japan.
No matter how many Tony Starks rise to try and change the world, there would always be one Obadiah Stane for each to bring him down through double dealings under noses and behind backs.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
@kcd75 (351):
“You should show both sides…the Ten Best Moments in US History as well.”
…
@Lola (352):
“My interpretation of what this list was supposed to be based on the title was worst things inflicted on others/another country/the world either directly or indirectly by the American government.”
What the hell does that interpretation have to do with the title?
@CataclysmicStar (356):
Look at the comment four places above yours. -__-
November 29th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
@henrysmyagent (29)
A very intelligent comment.
I think it is really disgusting that people can say that dropping the bomb was the better choice because it saved AMERICAN lives. The Japanese that died were civilians, the Americans that would have died were soldiers, trained and ready to fight to the death. And it was not justified because the Nazis bombed London or the Japanese bombed Pearl harbour or whatever. Americans bombed Tokyo many times before dropping the bomb.
I thought it was a great list, and agree with all the entries. And I think that America is a great country, probably the best in the world.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
@Lola (357):
Why would this list be restricted to actions taken by the American government? Neither the title nor the intro suggest any such thing.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
I have to agree with Carole, history has proven that McCarthy was correct.
Hollywood could never be filled with people who don’t like America, except maybe Sean Penn, Danny Glover, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins … and on
Iraq does not belong on the list. This is certainly not top-10 material.
In World War II everyone bombed civilians.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
@Springs (360):
I think you totally missed the point here. The japanese were invading the south-asian countries and maybe dropping the bomb was to save american lives BUT it did save the civilians of the south-asian countries too. The civilians here were not trained and not ready to die if i may add. Like i said, it was glorious, but it definitely wasn’t one of the worst moment in the US history. I can’t say its the better choice either, probably more of a driven-up-the-wall-last-resort kind of choice but yes I’m glad they did.
It is unfair to say that the japanese that died were civilians and it’s wrong. How about civilians who died under the cruel japanese rule during WWII ?
November 29th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
I typo-ed. I meant “Like i said, it wasN’T glorious …..”
November 29th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
@Prawnfart (363)
‘How about civilians who died under the cruel japanese rule during WWII ?’
Yes that was very cruel AND very wrong. But it doesn’t make it OK for other countries to do it back. An age-old ‘eye for an eye’ situation.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
@El the erf (9):
I’m sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you’re going up against a crazed dictator, you want to have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew he had weapons.
Taken from- This hour has 22 min/Rick mercer (i can’t remember)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
This site officially sucks now. Instead of facts, lists are full of opinions of some blogger (usually an idiot).
For more humorous and fact-based articles, I suggest readers to go to http://www.cracked.com
November 29th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Ugh! The ignorance astounds me. The dropping of the “civilian” cities was to save lives. Period. A conservative estimate was put at 1,000,000 Japanese killed. Much less Americans would have been killed. We saved hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of Japanese.
Also “eye for an eye” is enormously misunderstood. It was one of the greatest humanitarian law ever. It meant that an eye of a poor man was the same as an eye of a wealthy man. In other words you couldn’t take more in punishment from a poor man than you would of a rich man. Blind justice.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Great idea for a list. Really provocative. Maybe we should have a follow-up with a list like “10 Worst Moments in NZ History”
Fuck these lists are dull.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
@Doug B
Whatever, I disagree.
And if an eye nfor an eye is misunderstood than it is misunderstood by a far greater number of people who understand the real meaning. Whatever it means, I was referring to the ‘misunderstanding’ of the quote, you know, about revenge.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
What about Watergate scandle? And the entire Civil War was bad, not just Antietam. Also, if the US had not dropped the bomb, the following U.S causality would have been greater than if the bombs had not been dropped. Like Andres(252) said, this list should be renamed as “10 Bad Moments in US History” or “10 Terrible Moments” or something. I’m just saying there’s so many things that went wrong in the US history it’s hard to record what exactly is the worst.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
The nuclear bombings? Really?
That should’ve at least been a bonus… It’s very subjective. Sure, you killed many of Japanese.. But you also saved many more indirectly by preventing them from fighting to the last man – killing thousands of American GIs in the process.
It was a win-win situation for both, and it helped assert US influence for the next half-century. Worst moment? I don’t think so.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Another list about America that falls prey to political statements. God damn it. To put the Iraq War as akin to slavery and racism and battles that killed as many Americans as the entire Iraq War is just kind of frustrating.
Can’t I read a list here without being told how horrible and evil I am for being conservative?
I disagree with the nuclear bomb one too but other people seem to have pounced on that already. More power to them.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
woyzeck, i’d love to know what school you went to? because i’m sure it’s a very libral biased school taught by bleeding heart profs, which greatly influenced your decision and what you choose to look at and view your research…funny tho how you don’t mention anything about the allied ALLIED bombings of dresdan…or axis bombings of london…what people don’t understand about this was that it was a world war! there were no civilians, it was nation vs nation…the way the ppl who ran the war thought, those who build weapons are just as much a target as the soldiers on the line…people of england realized it…hence why a good many left the cities, after all the bombing that japan faced, as a full nation at war…there was not national outcry for peace or surrender, ppl don’t understand that this was a war where there were no civilians or soldiers only…the japanese didn’t go after only soldiers, hell they abused nurses and POW’s worse the the nazi’s, i don’t know why ppl agrue about the bombings when it was an all out war…can anyone honestly say that the japanese would have hesitated to use it against the US or the british, or Canadians? when the decision was made to drop the bomb it was because it was deemed the best way to end the war in the pacific with the fewest amount of casualties, and if japan was so eager to surrender and save the lives of its ppl why did it not surrender after the first bombing? why did nagasaki have to be bombed aswell…why didn’t japan surrender when it was offered after hiroshima? also does anyone thing that the bombings are also the reason why japan got off so lightly on war crimes punishment…god knows they committed many horrendous crimes against humanity…
November 29th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
@amadee (48):
really? The United States is the worst? Not the British? The British were oppressing people for hundreds of years before The United States of America was even a country. Not to mention oppressing us before we became a country. Check your facts if your going to talk about who is the worst of the worst.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
People supporting nuclear bombing here are saying that it prevented more bloodshed. But they are not aware of the long term effects caused by this. You can see that even now, children are being born with disabilities due to the radiation effects.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
yes its terrible, yet at the time the long term effects were unknown so you cannot include that into the decision to drop the bombs!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
There are some things I wish everyone bashing America and the dropping of the A-Bombs would remember:
1) In late 1945, the United States was JUST BEGINNING to reach full production wartime capacity while the rest of the world was in smoking ruins. We were basically unscathed. Had we wanted to, we could have conquered the entire world. We had the men in reserve and we had the equipment to do it. In fact, some people in the military (George S. Patton was one) thought we SHOULD go ahead and conquer at least the USSR.
BUT WE DIDN’T. Instead, we rebuilt Europe via the Marshall Plan and I don’t know the exact name of the plan, but we rebuilt Japan as well. Japan is always up in arms about US military bases and such. Well, imagine what a nice gold brick the little island country would shit if we said, “Fine. We’re outta here. We’re packing up and leaving Japan.” Do the good people of Japan REALLY believe that their little “Self-Defense” force would last two days against China? China has a long memory. They haven’t forgotten Nanking or the rest of Japanese aggression over the years.
2) the atomic bombings saved MILLIONS of lives and I’m not even talking about Japanese civilians or US servicemen. Think about it a moment. Up until Hiroshima, the atomic bomb’s effects had been theoretical. All we really knew was they blew big assed holes in the ground and made one HELL of a boom. It’s a tired old chestnut, but every weapon ever invented has eventually been used in combat. Now, imagine we didn’t drop the bomb on Japan. Later on, the Cold War would STILL have been as ugly. What if we or the USSR had resorted to nukes whose yields were in the MEGAtons instead of KILOtons? We may very well have destroyed the world and a time or two, we almost did. Here’s the thing though . . . US and Soviets could look back at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and say, “Damn. These bombs melted people. They vaporized people, and they were just little piss-ant a-bombs. Maybe we should talk this out some more.” I may be goofy and idealistic, but I believe that the doctrine of M.A.D. would not have worked if the world hadn’t seen up close and personal what the nuclear genie could do. It is a tragedy when anyone is killed in a war . . . civilian or soldier. How much worse could it be if we did not empirically know what could happen when atomics are unleashed?
Robert E. Lee, who knew a bit about the horror of wars said, “It is good that war is so terrible lest we should grow too fond of it.”
November 29th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
@TJ2017 (374):
“the reason why japan got off so lightly on war crimes punishment”
Actually, the Nazis got off easier. The Tokyo Tribunals resulted in several more executions than the Nuremburg Trials. While in Nuremburg the emphasis was, for the most part, on getting the “Big Fish”, in Tokyo, many unit level commanders were tried and executed as well as the highest authorities. Of course, due to the distastefulness with which the Japanese military leaders of the time viewed surrender, most of the highest commanders were not around to try in court.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
the interment camps were useful because the japanese were sending their children back to japan to train them to carry out attacks against us
November 29th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
@Sandy (373):
“Can’t I read a list here without being told how horrible and evil I am for being conservative?”
Huh? Where in this list did it attack conservatives? It certainly didn’t call them “horrible and evil”.
Moreover, an *actual* conservative would not support the Iraq War. I believe the word you’re looking for is “neo-conservative”, which is itself a misnomer and more of a social movement than an actual ideology.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
@Chandramouli (377):
The Japanese have the highest average life expectancy in the world. I think they’re doing just fine.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Aaaaaaaarghhh!!! Enough of this US-OBAMA-BUSH-WAR-HATE-RACIST etc etc stuff..a plea-Please JF no more of this stuff for now..at least until New year..puh-leeez
November 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Vera Lynn (376)
Nice point. Also, you have a terrible singing voice. (haha, couldn’t resist!)
November 29th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
How about 10 worst countries in the world (in advocating world peace)?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
JenP (385) You have no idea. I was pulled out of choir in 7th grade and made me the page turner for our teacher. I have never been so humiliated. I cannot carry a tune.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
@calm_incense (383):
Your level of sanity is proved by the statement that you deliver.
Really …are you that insane??
Has no one really taught you the fact that each life is as precious as the next one??
Oh,maybe its the lament of the aching heart of the poor mother that her child was not born in the US rather than in Japan??
Is that what you want to say..eh??
November 29th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
The selection of the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the end of WWII is a terrible choice. The Japanese had ample time to surrender before the bombs were dropped. An American invasion of the Japanese mainland would have assuredly resulted in many more casualties — both civilian AND military — and much more destruction of property than resulted from the dropping of the atomic bombs. Yes, civilians ARE indeed harmed in war: Just ask the Japanese, who WIPED out and enslaved the Chinese, Koreans, and other civilian populations they subdued.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
@Chandramouli (377):
Yeah, because Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the worst nuclear incidents the world has ever seen right? I think not. The level of radioactivity there has nothing on Chernobyl. Take a quick read about this one:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080210172017/http://www.insc.anl.gov/neisb/neisb4/NEISB_3.3.A1.1.html
November 29th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
@ above:
true that.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
gh0st_hax0r (391) Don’t be an idiot. Show some grace.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
how does that make me an idiot if i am simply following the annals of logic? After all, my comment is logically valid
November 29th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Its bedtime here for me. Dont knock each other out. We all contribute something here.
Segues, Randall: Where are you?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
@gh0st_hax0r (391): Dyu wanna be banned from posting, idiot? if not,then keep your stupid racist comments to yourself..
November 29th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Hey proudass american (#172): ever hear the term “pride goeth before a fall”? What ignorant bullshit you spout; it reminds me of elementary school children on a playground.
Really, the neo-cons here are so freaking delusional, it’s scary. America is not and never has been without fault; blind patriotism is foolish and dangerous.
As for the list; it is good, and mostly true.
The bombing of Japan will still be debated 100 years from now; hindsight is always 20/20, is it not? Vietnam was a tragedy on all counts, the U.S. had NO business being there in the first place. The treatment of Native Americans is/was inexcusable, and it absolutely belongs in the #1 spot, as does the Dred Scot decision.
However, I think I would have reserved another bonus spot for the Bush administration. GW and Cheney, I believe, will go down in history as the two biggest asshats to ever hold office. A war based on nothing but greed, and the use of fear-mongering to control an already terrified nation…I truly believe they should both be tried for war crimes. And yes, I am American.
Upon our plates to feed
The dying left to bleed
How much we really need
Your politics of greed
The cancer takes ahold
The wolf is in the fold
Our destiny’s been sold
We do just what we’re told
And we are letting you get away
We are letting you get away with it
November 29th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Jamie – I don’t know if #10 Iraq agrees with your politics, but I can tell you it doesn’t agree with mine. And it doesn’t correspond to the opinion of many, many Americans. Labeling the war in Iraq as a ‘worst moment’ is 7raul7’s opinion, and is too biased, based on a particular POV. Many other ‘worst moments’ with much higher universial agreement are included in others’ comments above.
What is particularly upsetting is that such an opinionated item is allowed on this list, yet the entire “10 Targeted Mass Killings” was deleted from the site because it included the albeit controversial yet FACTUAL abomination (okay, that word was opinion) of abortion. No one can refute that the eradication of millions of unborn babies (that’s the ‘mass’ part) is, for the vast majority of those deaths, decisive (that’s the ‘targeted’ part).
November 29th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
@Mike (398): Sorry but the general perception in the world is that the Iraq war was a black moment for USA coz so may soldiers and civilians were killed apparently on a fictitious pretext..you may not agree but there are many American citizens who differ from your opinion..
November 29th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Mike, what exactly is it about the Iraq war that you, and “many, many Americans” find so appealing?
You’re joking, right?
As for abortion….don’t even go there.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:04 am
@JustKar (400): Yeah my thoughts exactly..what is it to be proud about killing so many people just for OIL..to think that Iraq would have been a threat to the US given its military capabilities and infrastructure is stupid..that’s why everyone is happy that OBAMA has been elected prez and also awarded the NPP..
November 30th, 2009 at 12:19 am
@Geronimo1618 (399): You are absolutely correct: 1) the war in Iraq was a black mark for USA, 2) many soldiers and civilians were killed, and 3) one reason for the war was based on a fictitious pretext. I’m just saying I can’t see, in looking over all of American history, the Iraqi war was one of America’s worst moments. Folks like me believe it was an important front to fight to ward off terrorism. As stated by both you and I, though, many Americans agree with me, and many do not. So, there’s the proof of my comment that this item is just too controversial to be included in this list: I doubt it would remain on the same list 5, 10, 15 years from now.
And btw, JustKar (400), I don’t understand how you read “appealing” from the words “…doesn’t agree…”, “…biased…”, and “…opinionated…”. How’d you do that? (Maybe a more poignant question is, “Why’d you do that?”)
JustKar (400), you’re joking, right?
November 30th, 2009 at 12:33 am
The fact that this list was even made or that we can go online and comment on this list is a testament to how great of a country America is. Freedom of speech is something that a lot of us take for granted. America has dark moments in its history just like every other country. Knowing history is one of the most important things for a country, knowing our mistakes will help us avoid repeating them. America isnt perfect but it is a great place.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Interment Camps ?
interment:The ritual placing of a corpse in a grave.
Synonyms are: burial, entombment,inhumation, sepulture.
internment:Confinement during wartime.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:47 am
I demand you people stop this American debate.M sick n tired of all this stuff..i hope the next list is apolitical.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:01 am
As america falls your lists become more political as you claim that you are not. why is it that obama makes all your greatet lists but fails to join your worst. i would think that the comming of socialism and communism into america would more than qualify him for worst thing that has ever happened to america. sorry but i’m not rich. i’m only a lowly police officer that has to be cursed out on a daily basis becuase i can’t raise my voice to the poor disinfranchized peoples of america that don’t work becuase their nerves are too bad and so collect a check or something. i only see it getting worse for me and better for them.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:09 am
these lists are getting too political when you claim you are not. STOP WITH YOUR AMERICA BASHING!!!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 1:16 am
@Alecto (407): Stop being a hypocrite.. and stop your Obama bashing..isn’t he the Prez of America? isn’t he part of the US?
November 30th, 2009 at 1:31 am
@gh0st_hax0r (391):
Hell, whats wrong?
@blackhat119 (392):
…
The only thing I want to say is that when the previous list (10 best moments in American history) was published, these people did not bitch about how it only showed the positives of America & how it is America worshipping. As soon as this was published, they started raving like lunatics about how ‘Yankee bashing’ is gettin fashionable & America bashing is what this list is all about. Well, this is NOT my view of the 10 worst moments, but are, in reality, the 10 worst that did occur. I, for one, like America because of its ideals, views, society, freedom etc etc. Also, this list was published, as mentioned, to show both sides of the America …
November 30th, 2009 at 1:40 am
2 KingBubbaGump
You sir are a fool.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:41 am
I quickly scrolled through the comments, so if some of this information has already been posted I apologize.
I disagree with the dropping of the atomic bomb being part of the “worst” moments. Japan was ready to fight to it’s last citizen. At least as far as we knew at the time. If you want to pick out a bombing from WWII then pick Dresden or our firebombing of Tokyo which killed far more than either atomic bomb blast(initial deaths). That was a straight up bombing of civilians.
Vietnam shouldn’t be up there either. There are far more shameful moments in our history. Jim Crow, assassination of Lincoln, Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X…Apollo I, Challenger explosion, Iranian hostage mess…I would rate all those worse than the Vietnam war. Unless we’re talking about how the soldiers were treated upon their return.
And since it’s such a touchy subject and it seems labels are being thrown around I guess I should state I’m progressive. Usually vote Democrat, but registered independent.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:51 am
groooooooan.
I enjoyed this list the same as any other list – it’s an opinion piece.
Is it really that difficult to state one’s opinion without bashing someone elses? How does one argue opinion anyway? Just boggles my mind. I always find the best part of this site is reading the user comments….until there is a list about the US…then it just gets annoying. Honestly, isn’t there over 300 million people in the US? How can you just decide one day whether or not you like the country as a whole? I bet half the people on here complaining have never even been to North America. Guaranteed.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:01 am
Also, i enjoyed the list, even with the debatable quotation marks around “shortened” in the atomic bomb listing.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:03 am
Africa- commits Genocide in a daily basis, Tutsi-Hutu and so on, produces absolutely nothing except children they cannot feed. From the money they get from US/Europe they buy weapons to kill each other, great achievement!
Middle East- lucky they were born on oilfields,(need Westeners to maintain them) still have modern day slavery (Indians, Filop. etc working for 70 $/month and treated like crap). Besides Oil ,produce nothing.
China- produce 3.-class crappy goods, tell me one item from China that is well made? will fall because they are destroying there country trying to keep up with the US and Western Europe, India same story.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:15 am
your not even an American. The bombs dropped on Japan were needed to stop an even bigger war. I do believe japan started that war with America, am I right? didn’t they attack innocent American soldiers at pearl harber some fifty years ago?! siding with the nazis! and i’m sorry, but 9/11 and vietnam has nothing to do with you or your county. so why don’t you leave America out of your fucking lists… talk about your own fucking weak piece of shit country or something. does your country have anything, or do you keep having to talk about america????
November 30th, 2009 at 3:20 am
Of course Japan were evil bastards for what they did, BUT what people probably don`t know that after the war, the leader of Unit-731 was PARDONED, and then WENT TO WORK FOR THE AMERICANS! Talk about double standards! As did a lot of top Nazis! But of course, we never hear about this!
November 30th, 2009 at 3:41 am
wow no death of JFK on here??
November 30th, 2009 at 3:55 am
Innocent soldiers? Gee, the whole concept of war is soldiers attacking soldiers. Still, Pearl Harbour bombing was terrible.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:17 am
PLAIGARISM!!! i can only assume this after looking at the bay of pigs entry which dates this 44 years after that incident, meaning this was originally written in 2005!
PLEASE give us a break from these controversy baiting posts and jive us something to lightheartedly argue about, like the top ten jonny depp films of the ’00’s or something.
i miss when this site had something entertaining to read every day.
im this *makes finger gesture* close to removing my bookmark. im just really starting to get turned off by the boring posts, the controversy baiting posts and the obvious lack of effort to edit and check by Jfrater thats led to posts such as this one and the abortion controversy of the other week.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:34 am
To the rest of the world…for you being able to indulge in every socialistic fantasy because the United States did the heavy lifting since World War II and beyond…you’re welcome.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:32 am
the worst moment to support any sort of American History is the columbus sent sail on three boat
November 30th, 2009 at 6:52 am
It should be noted that were internment camps for Germans and Italians as well as Japanese
November 30th, 2009 at 7:52 am
Excuse me, how can you have 12,401 casualties with only 2,108 dead?
I agree about the internment camps, but there are plenty of equally “worst” moments that could substitute the more controversial moments.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:09 am
#10 is bullshit. I’m not supporting the war but there are at least ten other things that are much worse in the entire scope of things. Pearl harbor, Lincoln, JFK, and MLK assassinations, Katrina, and the current economic crash are all worse than the Iraq war.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:24 am
how am i a hypocrite? i detest obama and his determination to turn this once great country into a communist hell hole. and apparently nobody else even his supporters have any respect for him. why? you sure do show alot of respect when you are on a first name basis with such a supposedly “great man”.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:25 am
1.I think you should reverse the order…
2.What does Iraq have to do with anything, I think you can definalty find something that was uch worse that actually happened in America!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 8:31 am
I love how neo-cons are the same as 3rd graders with no idea whats going on. And then people go on to spew absolute liberal propaganda BS.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:21 am
@Alecto (425):
Out of curiousity, do you consider Canada to be Communist?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:12 am
To all those who hate the U.S, show me a major country that has a perfectly clean record. Anyone on here spewing hate about American’s go f*ck themselves. And finally, I really hate these types of list, good or bad, because you get every @sshole, wanker, douche bag on the internet spewing the garbage in their minds to other people. Please just go back to fun intresting list of the top 10 movie monsters or something. If I want crap like this I’ll just go watch the news.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:16 am
I’m sorry, but the Iraq war is not even close to the worst moment in US history. If the list goes in a different order then okay, though I don’t really agree with it’s inclusion (I’m against the war). Pearl Harbor should DEFINETLY be on the list.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:20 am
@ Cassia # 423
Casualties and deaths are two different things. Casualties are injuries plus deaths, deaths are deaths. You should probably know what you’re talking about before trying to make someone else look dumb.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:23 am
most of the listed items are terrible times in world and US history. what bothers me is the opinions infused into nearly every entry. if 7raul7 wants to spew his opinions on american history there are places on the internet to do it, but as a longtime listverse fan i am sad to see his subjective list get posted here.
there are dark spots in america’s history for sure. given america’s relatively short history its quite troubling, actually. but just because the piece of trash on the top of the pile is the easiest to see doesn’t make it any worse than the rest of the garbage. the USA is a world leader, whether you are pro-america or not it is foolish to dispute that. in such a position america’s every action is scrutinized and looked at under a microscope. if england, russia, france, italy, etc were in america’s position the “bad moments” in their history would appear just as atrocious. the uneducated posters (very easy to see who they are) are so quick to jump on the anti-america bandwagon without doing any research. instead of relying on lists like this one (facts are few and far between, unfortunately) please go educate yourself. this is not an argument in favor of these items in american history. if you are posting just to sh*t on america, or blindly support america, you are missing the point of these lists. there are so many insightful posters here with legitimate arguments, it just sucks to have to dig through all the “empty” posts that don’t contribute anything to the discussion.
@Cassia (423) – go look up the definition of “casualty” as it applies to warfare
November 30th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Interesting list . . . Excellent comments!
November 30th, 2009 at 10:59 am
*sigh* It looks like the comment content hasn’t changed since yesterday, and yes, as I predicted, more assholes have surfaced.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:50 am
McCarthy was vindicated! Haven’t you ever read the Venona Papers? Maybe its time you should. Stop with the Leftist BS.. Commies were dug in deep to US government positions and FDR cabinet.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
This list is absolute shit. I can somewhat agree with the first three (3). However, declaring that the dropping of the atomic bombs is one of the worst moments in America’s history is a completely ignorant statement. Those two bombs did a fraction of the damage that all the regular bombing did. Those two bombs saved millions of human lives, 200,000+ of which would have been American, the rest were Japanese.
The thing that you are probably caught up on is that because of the immense power delivered by an atomic blast, you believe that it should never be used under any circumstances. What you are failing to understand, is that there are times for negotiation, and there are times for action. In the case of Imperial Japan in the 1940’s, negotiation was not an option, at all. The only option that remains, is action. Two ways to go about this action. Send virtually all US and allied forces island by island, killing every single Japanese soldier they came across before finally invading Japan itself. Or, drop millions of fliers into Japanese cities, waring them about a destructive new weapon we have, and will be using if they do not surrender immediately. Only one of these options saved countless lives, and it sure as hell was not the option to invade.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
@fallings (418):
Fuck off. This website will do just fine without you.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
How could a list about the worst moments in US history not include the following?
1. Pearl Harbor
2. The Lincoln Assasination
3. Roe V Wade
4. The 1918 Influenza Pandemic
5. The 1900 Galveston Hurricane
But yeah Mcarthyism was much worse…….
Hey JFRATER maybe a little quality control for these lists would be a good idea.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Strongly biased list in my opinion, though some of the moments are undoubtedly deserving.
Any mention of Iraq at this point any reasonable author should surely know is simply a lightningrod, I have to assume this was done intentionally to deflect attention from other dubious entries, including the dropping of the atomic bomb.
Short of simply letting Japan continue to maraud its way across southeast Asia *literally* raping and pillaging (and that’s no exaggeration, the actions of the Japanese in Manchuria involved an appalling amount of rape and torture) any other option would have cost both more American AND more Japanese lives. The Atom Bomb saved lives, in the end, compared to any other option, including incendiary bombing, a blockade that attempted to starve them into submission or a full-scale land invasion.
McCarthyism would have made a far better #10 or even #6, on its merits.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Well,
Another America bashing list. How original.
Your political lean is showing.
Shame this could have been a good and factual list but you chose to go in this direction.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
very good list, can’t understand any of those ignorrants that think that bombing Japan was good thing…maybe your fathers inhaled too much radiation and they made you think that way…very big nation and like all major forces before it USA managed to spread hate and fear all over the world, hope that they get over their fear of socialism and communism and realise that themselves are their biggest enemies
November 30th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
not sure if its been mentioned in the highly political comments but what about the Oklahoma City Bombing that killed 198 people by the first domestic terrorist attack. Id think that was worse than at least 4 0f your top 10 items and definately worse than your bonus.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
it is so sad to see really bad stuff happenin to america
November 30th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
The first thing I have to say is how nobody bitches about us fire-bombing the hell out of German cities. Casualties for just the bombing of Dresden were around 100,000 people. Yet nobody complains about that.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both major military instillations. It is not the fault of the USA that Japan put some of its most important military targets within major city limits. The headquarters of the Japanese 7th Army was in Hiroshima.
Furthermore 100,000 Japanese civilians were killed on Okinawa. This number includes numbers murdered by the goddam Japanese Army, people killed on accident by the US army and numerous amounts of civilians that committed suicide due to the criminal lies put forth by the Japanese military. Kyushu itself is 15x larger than Okinawa and that is the smallest home island. So on Kyushu itself it is not ridiculous to think civilian casualties would be around 1,000,000 people. The two atomic bomb droppings killed a maximum of 200,000 people (including those who died due to atomic radiation poisoning years later). This number does not count the likely 1 million total Allied casualties to take all four Japanese home islands.
Let’s also bring into account the fact that if we had continued the war the SOVIET UNION would have invaded Hokkaido. That’s the same Soviet Union that by 1945 had created the greatest military force the world had ever seen and smashed the previously invincible Wermacht into utter submission. In just ten days the Soviets caused almost 1 million Japanese casualties during the retaking of Manchuria. Imagine that coming down upon millions of Japanese civilians who were hellbent on battle suicide.
So logically we’re looking at around 3 million total Japanese casualties (military and civilian) for the Soviets to take Hokkaido and the US to take Kyushu. That leaves TWO MORE home islands for Allied forces to take. And nobody even mentions the fact that the 100,000 Allied prisoners in Japanese custody in the home islands were ordered to be killed in the event of an Allied invasion. I’ll take 200,000 maximum casualties against untold millions to end a war in a heartbeat.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Seriously, this website is one of my favorites. Lately, however, it seems that this website just loves to poke at the U.S.. And this is even more annoying coming from a bunch of Brits, which apparantly loathe America.
Thank you #429 and #440
It’s like “Oh cool, a list about monsters, and another on cars. Oh, another list bashing America…”
And please don’t put up a “Worst moments in European History”, because an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
445: worst moments in European history would take way more than this number of entries by virtue of their longer history, which would cause cries of bias… and so goes the cycle.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
“It completely ignored the fact that war is between armies, not civilians”
You also completly ignore that wars are strengthened or weakened by the resolve of the people. Massive civilian casualties have a way of shortening wars but I guess you can’t see that from so high on your horse.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
“The USA are a bunch of clowns it has to be said. If America was a person, that person would be a whopping douchebag.”
And where would you be from Sir/or maddam??….most likely a country that the US bailed out…your welcome…
November 30th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
It’s comments like #448 “most likely a country that the US bailed out…your welcome…” that make everyone think that the US is a country full of douchebags.
How about putting Toby Kieth back in your pants and not making it worse.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
all these lists are biased, JFRATER, YOU are not AMERICAN, so please don’t attempt to post lists, acting like you know what is the “greatest” or “worst” moments in the nations history…
November 30th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Facts are Facts, don’t hate…
November 30th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
@deeeziner (279): I don’t think the patriot act is a good thing in any situation.
I think,though, that the problem with the McCarthy hearings was that both McCarthy and Tydings used their share of fallacies, but if you read through the cases, you can tell that Millard Tydings was very biased against McCarthy.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
I really wish we had a way of seeing alternative history because I’d really love to see how the world would be hadn’t dropped the bombs.
Have any of you people even heard of the casualties that were estimated from the planned invasion of Japan? Allied numbers were in the millions, the Japanese casualties were yen times that, civilans were being urged by Hirohito to repel the Allies at all costs. Our men would been mowing down people using anything and everything as a weapon.
Do you know that the US was already engaged in a fire-bombing campaign of Japanese cities and it still didn’t change the Japanese resolve?
All I’m saying is that, horrific as the bombings were, the alternative was a bloody war fought through the streets of Japan against civilians and the casualties would’ve been much higher.
Of course if it had happened that way we’d all be looking back and saying, “why didn’t they just drop the two bombs and cut the casualties, why did so many more have to die?”
And regarding the debate on the bombing being war crimes, I think the Japanese getting away with what they did makes it even.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
I’m not saying that McCarthy was right all the time, but Tydings wouldn’t even consider the possibility that McCarthy was right, and as a result, any suspects which actually were communists got to run free.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
“Facts are Facts, don’t hate”
In that case you better thank every Chinese person you see.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I might get flamed for this, butI think that dropping the Atom bombs on Japan was the right decision. Yeah, it was horrible, but in their situation, for reasons stated by Jake, either was was going to be bloody.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I agree with #453. From what I know the Japanese people were very fanatical regarding protecting Japan and following the will of Hirohito. Just because the “military” aspect of the war was coming to a close does NOT mean the war was over.
It’s like what you have in Iraq…just rather than an entire country of people trying to run us out you have smaller cells but the fight is still the same.
Imagine now that the Iraqi people were as fanatical as the Japanese were and actually took up Hussien’s call to arms with the same diligence.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
The fact that some of you engage in banter that insult people born in the US puts you on the same level of the image you wish to create and propagate. I was born and raised in the United States and although I am proud of who I am and the country I was raised in (I take it that most of you are proud of your homeland as well); this by no means makes me the ignorant “American” that many of you find it easier to pigeon-hole me as. I am a very well-rounded and educated person. I also not only find it interesting but also essential to who I am as a person to learn about other cultures and respect their values and uniqueness.
I work very hard and am not a spendthrift…I struggle at minimum wage to earn an hourly wage that just pays my bills (I work as an aide in a hospital taking care of elderly people with dignity and respect – based on comments I’m sure many of you also feel we pay our elderly little respect and care). I am part of the vast majority of Americans that are not fed from a silver spoon and toil day to day just like the rest of the world.
Also contrary to popular belief – I, an American, am not George W. Bush. We are not all blind parts of a flock of sheep who viewed him as a deity close to God. We saw his faults and disagreed with him sending are troops to a war that was his and his father’s vendetta. Many of us have views very similar if not right on par as are “worldly” peers.
We also are not our ancestors or even our parents. The historical events you like to place on the shoulders of every common day US citizen is unfair and one big “cop-out” on your part. It is much easier to find someone or a group of people to blame for all the world’s ills and I guess the rest of the world thinks the US is a great place to start…
This by no means is geared towards all of you. It is just geared towards the people who find it so much easier to blame US citizens and stereotype them so that they themselves never have to take any responsibility for where we are as a global society.
I had no more control over where I was born than you did. Our roles can easily be reversed. I live everyday with a goal in mind to be open to everyone and learn as much from others as I can. Ask yourself, do you? If you bash Americans simply because the latitude and longitude of which we we were born; you are no better than the American racists who did the same to slaves; the Japanese; etc. etc.
PS: PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH MY DEAR PEERS OF THE WORLD!
Live, Laugh, and Love.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
@therush (444):
I agree with what you say for the most part, but I whole heartedly disagree with the number of casualties for the Dresden firebombing. You are off by about a factor of 10. If 100k people were killed in Dresden, the city would have been a ghost town, but it was not.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
interesting list…
November 30th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I understood this list as the worst moments in US history caused by US government, otherwise a lot more could be added (Pearl Harbor, Martin Luther King murder, etc.). I don’t believe the stock market crash should be included in this list, as I don’t think it was caused by the US government.
I don’t think the Bomb should classify as one of the 10 worst moments. It is certainly a huge stigma to be the only country in the world who have used it, but you can easily find worse. Like it was mentioned before, it was the less bloody option to obtain the inconditionnal surrender of Japan. We could debate if an inconditionnal surrender was really needed, but we would be peeing in the wind. I would rather choose instead of the Bomb, the Perry’s expedition and the gunboat diplomacy where you can trace the origin of Japan’s warmongering imperialism.
I think you could include at least an example of a bad US intervention in Latin America, as the Bay of Pigs is rather an example of bad leadership. I would personally choose the overthrow of the Arbenz government by the CIA. In that case, it’s quite obvious that the Cold War was an excuse to help the owners of the United Fruit Company. The consequences where the delaying of the democratization of Guatemala and a civil war that lasted decades and killed hundred of thousands of people.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
again for the people who said japan was willing to surrender prior to the bomb droppings why did it take the dropping of a second Abomb to force the japan to surrender? and this bombing was at least a whole day later…why? maybe they weren’t willing to surrender? also hiroshima and nagasaki were cities where a large deal of military factory’s, munitions plants, and troop depots were located…if japan was going to hide their soldiers amongst civilians, then what were the allies supposed to do…its a strike the enemy at all costs….i just wish i knew why ppl feel they have the right to judge the US? i’m canadian for what difference it makes…but in terms of global aid, i believe that if people are going to hate north america particularly the US, then maybe all north american nations should stop giving out aid, technology and such and spend money on its own peoples and their problems…maybe we shouldn’t alwasy look at the bad and look at the good…for most of the people who write on this site, i say you are as ignorant and stupid as the people you insult!!
November 30th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
@ULMFLB (460):
“I understood this list as the worst moments in US history caused by US government, otherwise a lot more could be added (Pearl Harbor, Martin Luther King murder, etc.). I don’t believe the stock market crash should be included in this list, as I don’t think it was caused by the US government.”
Where in the hell does this list say it’s about the US government?
November 30th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Some of these on the list are debatable, while most are really bad.
The A-Bomb, in my opinion was the culmination of the worst event in Japanese History.
Iraq has proven to be successful. Try telling some innocent Kurd that Iraq was a bad decision, or try telling some Shiite that getting rid of Sadaam was a bad decision.
I guess it’s which perspective you’re looking from.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
@calm_incense
You are right, it doesn’t say that, I just presumed that because of the content of the list. The list appears to be a little bit biased now. Nine out of ten of those moments can be blamed on the US government, it certainly seems too much. I definitely think now that Pearl Harbor could be included, the 1918 flu epidemic, some natural disaster.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
YET AGAIN HATE THE LIST
with the exception of numbers 2 ,7 ,9 the rest are just a bunch of typical political carp that whether or not it is viewed as bad depends an your political affiliation.
number one ,so what if the indians were moved , socioeconomic application of darwinism , it was during the early stages of the industrial revolution and the indians were still in the stone age so it was inevitable anyway.
number 3 , in war people died ,enough said
number 4 ,Taught people the value of trusting in government to help the economy.
number 5 it was a national security measure ,so what!
number 6 nothing bad about nuking japan to get the war over with, it probably did save more people than it killed.
number 8 even though Vietnam was a total bust it did prepare the U.S. for the new age of warfare we are now in ,and because of that lose , we learned and now we’re back on top
number 10 , so what if Bushes intelligence reports were wrong ,comparatively I say turning Iraq into a country without a tyrant ruler more than makes up for that.
Bonus , this one is probably the most politically bent one on the list.For a start there were some actual communist that were caught during the McCharthy period.The only reason that today people are looking at it like it was a witch hunt is mainly because , over the years a lot of left wing groups have tried to bury history and make it look as though their was never a communist interest in the U.S.
Probably because a lot of those same people like the idea of communism and are just bashing on things they don’t like.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
The atomic bomb is a horrible moment in US history. It wasn’t about winning the war, saving lives by not invading Japan, or shortening the war. The atomic blasts at Hiroshima and Nagasaki marked the beginning of nuclear warfare. Warfare that was not about destroying enemy armies or industrial centers, but the entire country. For 50 years, mutual assured destruction would grip the world in fear as the Soviets, US and other countries built up nuclear arsenals. This was war where there was no winners or losers only destruction on an unimaginable scale. Even today, Indian and Pakistan build up nuclear armaments. North Korea threatens South with nuclear weapons. The objective complete obliteration of EVERYTHING (man, woman, child, animal, buildings, etc) on the other side. Regardless of the short time goal, the use of atomic weapons changed life for the worse for everyone. Think about it, after the bombs were dropped people started talking about not if we could win the next war, but who would survive.
I am a proud American (US typed), and I admit my country has done some stupid things. Every country does. I think there is some kinda of perceived hipness in hating the US. As for me, I am proud to be a citizen of the USA. We may not be right all the time, but at least we admit when we’re wrong and try to make it right.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
@uninsane:”number one ,so what if the indians were moved , socioeconomic application of darwinism , it was during the early stages of the industrial revolution and the indians were still in the stone age so it was inevitable anyway” Oh, I guess that makes it all better. At least they weren’t as industrialized as us, or else it’d be a bad thing we killed hundreds of people! Phew, almost felt guilty for that one!
November 30th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
@GiantFlyingRobo (467): Sorry, only industrialized is supposed to in italics, and only ‘killed hundreds of people’ in bold.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
This list far outweighs the 10 Greatest Moments list. You Americans are so unbelievably up yourselves! When the list of the Greatest Moments in US History was made, you all had positive comments and said how great the list was. As soon as there is a 10 Worst Moments in US History list, you get all defensive and self-centered and make claims that the author is taking a stab at America. Get over it. You also have an excuse for every single thing on this list.
All the US had to do to stop WW2 was drop the bombs in a non-populated area and then tell the Japanese government to look there and see the destruction. But no! They just had to drop them on two fucking cities didn’t they. Nothing but an attrocity if you ask most people.
People say that 9/11 was bad because it was terrorists who did it but hold on a second. Murderers kill for no real reason, terrorists kill for an extremely relevant and strong belief. The only reason you Yanks had planes flown into you is because you were doing the same fucking thing to other people. End of story. Terrorists don’t fight for the fun of it.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
@someone (469):
I know we Americans get a really bad rep, but look at yourself. You criticize and stereotype everyone and defend killers.
To start murderers kill people for things that they’ve personally done to them, terrorists kill people they don’t know to send a message.
Next, its true people will defend some of these acts, but truthfully most Americans are against Iraq, Vietnam, and feel extremely guilty for the A-bombs. And people aren’t defending those acts by saying they were great things, but that they were done for the intention of a better outcome (even though many Americans were against some of those things). Would I have dropped the bombs, yes. Would I believe it was a horrible moment, of course.
someone, I believe you are no different then the people you stereotype Americans to be.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
The list is reasonable. I think “moment” in this instance is being used figuratively.
I would not have included Antietam. Dispite the losses it was the “victory” at Antietam that accelerated Lincoln’s issuing the Emancipation Proclamation.
I would have included slavery. How could one possibly not include slavery? Like I said, “moment” is being used figuratively.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
someone (469):
we had planes flow into us because we “were doing the same fucking thing to other people. End of story. Terrorists don’t fight for the fun of it”?
have you lost it? why are you attempting to imply some type of justified retribution or logic to *any* terrorist attack? they’re not called “terrorists” for the fun of it, either, jackass.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
@ uninsane (465)
Political crap? The list deals with morality, not politics. But well, I imagine that we won’t get along well if when somebody says “Trail of Tears” you answer “Social Darwinism”. Which is, by the way, just political crap, not science.
Number 3. In war people die. Sure, but that doesn’t make it good!
Number 4. The responsibility of government intervention in the Stock Market Crash is debatable. And you seem to consider it good, because it was “pedagogic”.
Number 5. You can’t justify everything with the “National Security” crap. US citizens lost their freedom because of their ethnic background. It is certainly understandable and probably avoided quite a lot of lynchings, but it is nothing to be proud of.
Number 10. The problem is not that Bush made a mistake about WMD, the problem is that the world is sure that he lied on purpose so that him and his buddies get richer. Just to get a clue of how big is international disapproval of Bush politics, you just have to think that Obama got the Nobel Prize just because he is not Bush!
And the Bonus… Defending McCarthy! Sure, some of the people affected by McCarthyism were communist. Sure, some of them were probably working with the Soviet Union. But nevertheless, the live of some people was worse because of what they believed in. The US system, a free market democracy, is considered superior to the communist dictatorships not only because its better to produce military equipment (the reason the US won the Cold War), it is considered better because of the respect of individual rights. The freedom of thought is one of those rights. And McCarthyism is a clear violation of that right. Yeah fight the commies by becoming like them, sure, great idea!
November 30th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
@Gav(18) you said: “And since the Natives weren’t really using the land for progressive action, I don’t consider booting them off the land to be a negative (were they more advanced, they may have survived)”
so if i come to your house, and you are not making any progressive action on it, i can force you to leave?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Iraq? Really? Tell that to the 25 million free Iraqis. Who ever came up with this list is a total liberal and it is very evident by the descriptions.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
this is is terrible, and not just terrible ecause of the topics, but it just sucks,
A decision was taken to drop atomic bombs on Japanese civilians killing roughly 200,000 people in total to ‘shorten’ the war. ( It completely ignored the fact that war is between armies, not civilians).
you neglected to include pearl harbor in this which i thought was going to be on it. and how was the japenese attack on us not an attack o ncivilians also
November 30th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
@calm_incense(383):
I was never talking abt whole of Japan…
@renegade(390):
So are you saying lesser evil is no evil?
December 1st, 2009 at 12:08 am
Stupid, stupid list.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:33 am
Well I dunno,is this list considering the worst moments from the perspective of USA or the rest of the world? It shoulda been mentioned to remove the ambiguity
December 1st, 2009 at 12:36 am
@badlist (81):
Kim Jong Il
Robert Mugabe
Augusto Pinochet
Idi Amin
None of whom the USA felt the need to remove. Also lets not forget that without the USA Saddam would never have reached the exalted status of mass murdering Dictator. And to the commentator who mentioned all the people in Saddams jails at least they were/are still alive unlike a huge proportion of the opponents of the above named.
@demirah (98):
And all the others
In what way was this a worst moment? It is not like he was the only President to be assassinated nor TBH the worst assassination from a political standpoint.
@Greg (161):
No there isn’t, and what little reliable evidence there is was most likely not available to the President and Generals who had to make the decision.
@Bill (200):
I can think of at least 40 million people who would disagree with you.
@Phender_Bender (281):
Where is Waco? – Texas
Where is the entire Vietnam war? – Did you even read the list?
Where are the anthrax attacks? – Nowhere. Far too minor.
Where is Virginia Tech or Columbine? – Virginia (Duh) and Colorado. What makes them so special among all the other whacko nut job shootings in the US.
Where are Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, or David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)? – Prison or Dead.
Where is the Jonestown mass suicide (yeah, Jonestowns wasn’t in the USA, but they were American people) – Historical non event.
Where is the Oklahoma City bombing? – Another survivalist Yank nut job, so what?
Some others mentioned Challenger – Why? So 7 astronauts died (a tragedy yes)and NASA beat itself up but why is that so special as to be one of the Top 10 – does it even rank above Apollo 1?
To all the wankers bleating about the lack of 10 worst moments in (insert non US country here) history I await YOUR lists with bated breath.
7raul7
A good attempt though as has been noted already the insertion of your opinion in several of the items does devalue it. Also I guess you have worked out by now that maybe The Bomb was not the best of entries. I am not sure either that a 13 year war qualifies as a moment.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:52 am
@jaydude (476):
Really? Pearl Harbour was just a recreational Marina? The Arizona was a pleasure yacht?
Asshat!
Cheers
Lee
December 1st, 2009 at 12:56 am
@ULMFLB (473):
+1
@uninsane (465):
The only reason that today people are looking at it like it was a witch hunt is mainly because , over the years a lot of left wing groups have tried to bury history and make it look as though their was never a communist interest in the U.S.
The main reason it is viewed as a witch hunt is because that is exactly what it was. After all who gives a fuck how many innocent people we fuck up so long as we get the bad guy, Huh?
Cheers
Lee
December 1st, 2009 at 1:02 am
@The Music Hearer (451): I’m not in favor of the patriot act either…My point was simply…Thank heavens the McCarthy proceedings DIDN’T have all the technology towards document gathering that exists today. That much info in the hands of Red-fearing fanatics may have truly changed the U.S. into something completely unrecognizable today…
1984 and Big Brother…And all that other societal sci-fi of the post war era, may not have remained sci-fi.
But now I have opened myself to some “proper” schooling on the subject.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:02 am
Wow, what a generic and uninteresting list.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:21 am
What a shitty list. Whoever wrote this is dumb as fuck.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:42 am
America Rules!! The List sucks howerver.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:47 am
@jaydude (476): The bombs were strategically chosen to drop on those cities because of the comparably small civilian populations and the fact that they had factories building materials to support the Japanese war effort. More people died in the course of the war including the Tokyo bombings alone then they did at Hiroshima.
The bombs ended the war so it was a successful plan. Imagine how many more people would of died in Japan didn’t surrender and the U.S. had to invade mainland Japan.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:25 am
“All the US had to do to stop WW2 was drop the bombs in a non-populated area and then tell the Japanese government to look there and see the destruction.”
We issued a declaration that called for the inevitable and complete destruction of the Japanese armed forces and just as inevitably the utter devastation of the Japanese homeland, it was rejected.
We bombed Hiroshima.
We issued a warning, “If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a rain of ruin from the air the likes of which has never been seen on this earth.” They rejected the Potsdam Declaration again.
What would make you think that bombing an empty field would make Hirohito suddenly surrender?
December 1st, 2009 at 8:30 am
Before you all start rushing to the defense of the poor Japanese that the big bully Americans bombed…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
And they still deny these things happened.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:46 am
Terrible list.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:51 am
I’ve read lists here for a long time now and I’ve never once posted a comment. For this list, I will. Could the poster have been a little more Un-American, please? No country is perfect. And we’re a young one at that. But seriously, what’s the point in going through and pointing out flaw by flaw of our country. Do we do this for other countries? Everyone loves to hate the U.S. but when a financial, natural, or man-made disaster happens, who does everyone call? Need some troops to protect your boarders? Call the U.S. If not, let’s call Nato or the UN. Oh wait, the troops Nato or the UN are probably going to be from America…. Hm. What to do? Your country get attacked by Islamic Extremists like those on 9/11? Let America head that fight! They’ll get all the blame, take care of the problem. All we have to do is sit back, keep our heads low and not talk about it. Then we don’t get blamed for bad shit too. You people need to stop living in a rose-colored world. It doesn’t exist. Some times you have to go through and kick down some doors and shoot some people in the head to get things done. If dropping the A bombs in Japan actually saved lives, why is it a bad thing? By the way, the Americans didn’t create the Taliban or Al Qeada. Should have we kept funding the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan after the Soviets left? A case can be made for that. But we didnt make the group that will stone a woman for not walking behind a man. That’s absurd. And Al Qeada? You know why Bin Laden hates us so much? He went to offer Kuwait military assitance. They said no because the U.S. was already on the way. He was embarrassed like a little kid at the dinner table and now he wants to strike back. So please, when you come up with your Anti-American sentiment bullsh-t, be a little less veiled and bring facts.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:24 am
I think the dropping of the bomb was the best option at that time. You do realize the Japs were training everybody, women, and children included to fight an invasion. If we had went in the losses would have been in the millions. The Japs wouldn’t have surrendered without an invasion.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:37 am
The problem is that people here want to bash the US no matter what. It’s really easy to sit there and critize the US for all of thier action in wars like they were some great evil for fighting them but then again you have the freedom to do that. A freedom that would not have been awarded to you if we were under the control of Nazi Germany, the Imperial Japanese for the Soviet Union.
America helped fight these wars, got thier hands bloody and the world is a better place for it. So what right does anyone have to critize the blood on thier hands?
You want to ride a high horse and act self-rightous because you condemn the deaths of civilans. War is hell, civilans die, it happens and it’s tragic. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the right choice, sometimes you have to fight and kill for the good of the world. Otherwise you take the “high road”, bow your head and let the enemy but a bullet in it.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:24 am
@19 Taaz…Rascist statement. Don’t be so naive. Every race does it. Ever see the movie Hotel Rwanda..happened there and it wasn’t the white man.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:42 am
I’m pretty sure the US didn’t drop any bombs, that was dolphin and whale.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:17 pm
What about Roe v. Wade decision??????????????????????????????????????????????
December 1st, 2009 at 1:44 pm
@SecRef (496): What about it?
December 1st, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Well, I´m pretty sure NO ONE is going to read this comment but here it is anyway: THIS IS NOT JUST USA BASHING FOR THE FUN OF IT.
A list was published just a few days before this one listing 10 GREAT Moments in US History and all the comments were about how proud everyone was to be an American, etc. Now a counter list was published and suddenly everyone is up in arms about how the good, ol´ USA is being unnecessarily attacked. Why is that?
Is it really that hard to understand that EVERY SINGLE HISTORY has good moments and bad moments? Countries, religions, individual people… We´ve all had moments we´re proud of and we´ve all had moments we wish we could erase. Go ahead and celebrate your good moments but dont get defensive when your not-so-great moments are brought up also.
Whether you like it or not, these are not America´s proudest moments. Why cant you just say, “OK, we, as a country, have made mistakes.” That´s it.
I´m from Peru (I think most regulars know that but for all you new people). I´m very proud my country: its food, culture, ruins, etc. That doesnt mean I try to hide all my country´s shortcomings by yelling and screaming at anyone who points them out.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:22 pm
I love how some comments are along the lines of, “It would be great if the U.S. never existed”. Hah! That’s a good one, I’d really love to see where the world would be without the U.S. And enough with the Atomic Bombs already, because if we didn’t drop those on Japan, people would criticize the fact that we didn’t end the war quick enough. And thats the sad fact that everything boils down to. No matter what the U.S. does, we will be heavily criticized for it. And I 100% agree with Harry Reed(#493). The U.S. gets BS all of the time because we are a nation of doers. We DO things. And the world is better because we DO things. We are the world’s most powerful military force, so it’s almost a given that we must fight wars. We can’t just take a break, because if we do, the world will be affected for the worse. We are the world’s Police Force, and in the same way with actual civil police forces, we are sometimes hated. And I’m sick and tired of all these commentors bashing the U.S. while acting like they are on a chrome horse. How long a list would you think the worst moments in British history would be? 30,40,50 entries. BY GOD ENOUGH ALREADY.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
@Patriot (499):
Who ever said that they wished the United States never existed?
I, for one, am glad that the United States exists and I admire American culture. I think that the United States has contributed far more good than bad to the world.
That being said, you and others posting on here are remarkably thin-skinned when it comes to seeing the flaws in your nation’s history. Grow the fuck up.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Where is Pearl Harbor?
December 1st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
@troy (501):
Hawaii
December 1st, 2009 at 3:51 pm
There are flaws in every counties history. It’s inevitable. I think the bottom line is “as long as they trying to do the right thing”
December 1st, 2009 at 3:53 pm
You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:05 pm
GREAT list, 7raul7. Absolutely fantastic. It’s important to openly discuss these things… or there will never be progress. Occasionally, you have to take off the patriotism-blinders and fess up to mistakes and missteps (I’m putting a delicate spin on it) as a country. I didn’t accept ANY behavior from my child as he was growing up — why should I accept, without question, ANY behavior from my country as it continues to grow up? Love doesn’t have to blind. Love can be brutally honest.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Actually, check the facts in regards mcCarthy. both the FBI’s “Venona” project – some of which has been published undr FOIA, and a glasnost era investigation of COMINTERN files show that McCarthy (JFK too a commie fighter) were right.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:24 pm
i think here the whole issue of this list is not so much that this list was made, although there are some thin skinned people indeed, but the issue i think alot of people including myself have with a list of this nature is that the author seems to have based his facts on very little research, and mostly on biased opinions. i wouldn’t have an issue if the writer had backed up his list with facts and solid research. Attack what ever nation you want, and point out their flaws till your blue in the face, just get your fact straight and right!
December 1st, 2009 at 10:28 pm
@gnostic(506): I don’t think a fact check does much to vindicate McCarthy.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Regarding the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, one hears the figure of ‘one million’ Americans lost in an invasion of mainland Japan thrown around with an assumption of certainty…but neither Eisenhower nor Nimitz was so sure. And were the Japanese not putting out diplomatic feelers to the Russians, exploring the possibility of peace negotiations?
In any case, the firebombings of Japanese cities were probably not much less hellish…
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:51 am
Why is it that every list is about America. America has and still does a lot for many Countries around the world while other Countries sit and do nothing.
Talking about the Bombs and 9/11 but I don’t hear people saying anything bad about the Japs when they BOMBED PEAL HARBOR. Saying that are government caused 9/11 is idiotic and it just plain out expresses your hatred toward America. I guess the British and French gov. caused the terriost attacks that happened on their soil.
I can easily make the same list for N.Z. France, Italy , Greece, Germany, U.K., Russia , all of Africa. Why is it that America is always on people minds.
America had to do what was necessary to end the war after so many American lives were lost in ww2.
Yes Slavery was terrible but remember that the Africans captured their on people and sold them to the Spanish and the Spanish sold the slaves to American and also surrounding islands. And slaves also existed in Europe as well, they were called Serfs.
And the Spanish and other European countries took part in the killing of the Native Americans. They Mayans for example.
Their were natives living peacefully in N.Z. and Austalia as well.
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:53 am
Hey, JFrater, I have read your site for a long time now, and while I do appreciate the diversity of topics and opinions expressed herein, I have to voice my objections to this list. Contrary to most objections in the comments, I think it matters not at all to which point in the political spectrum one adheres, but poorly written, researched, and intentionally inflammatory lists such as this one do a great disservice to the majority of your readers, who (and this I presume; I suppose I could be wrong) visit and support this site on a regular basis to entertain or perhaps educate themselves about various facts and events. This list is more akin to a Glenn Beck or Jon Stewart show, which one watches for entertainment but chooses to do so with full knowledge of the bias and politics therein portrayed. All in all, the quality, point of view, and expressions in this list are an insult to your regular readers, and I, for one, will not be back if this trend continues. Best regards, and thank you for the opportunity to add my two cents.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:32 am
Porkido: the facts are COMINTERN records and FBI decrypted documents from real time. The facts are unhandy to some, but fact nonetheless. Opinion may be disputed, fact not, and some records I reference, indeed most of them, are Soviet in nature.
And agre with comments about America bashing. We nver have been perfect, and never will. I truly wish we would learn to grow up, and that we could kep our mits off world politics. but yes: other societies had slavery too , many fr nastier than ours, and some have not learned yet that slavery is bad. Pearl did lead to Hiroshima, things happen in war, most of it not nice. How many people here and in stern nations complain endlesly about Nazi actions and millions killed outside the war effort, or stalin’s estimated 20 million non-war dead, or mao’s approximate 60 million. . .
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:29 am
@gnostic (512): How many people here and in stern nations
What is stern nation? Western, Eastern, Howard Stern, what are you trying to say here?
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:42 am
Because of this list i will never come to this site again.
I love this site and check it almost every day, but you realy let me down with this one, what a shame. Please feel free to let me know when you have removed your head from your ass.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:17 am
Everyone wants to be our best friend behind closed doors and wants our foreign aid and then bash us to their people about how evil the Americans are.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:24 am
This is a terrible American bashing list. This should be pulled off of the site immediately, or a call should go out asking for lists bashing the rest of the world’s countries on an individual basis.
PULL THIS LIST NOW
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:29 am
By the way, to those who think Americas are thick skinned. You must be out of your damn mind. I work in television news. The real travesty in America is the poverty and violence happening all the time. And it’s on the news all the time. If you think we can take some people we’ll never meet talking shit about our country on the internet you need to take a class or talk to an America once in a while. We’re patriotic. We love our country, and for the right reasons while realizing that we aren’t perfect. No-one is perfect and in the pursuit of all of the good tasks we’d like to do, sometimes we need to get our hands dirty or make mistakes along the way. I love my country but I know we are not perfect. We will never be perfect but we make efforts every day to not only help and protect our citizens, but the citizens of the world because we are a brotherhood. We depend on each other for trade, support and friendship. We all realize we can’t live in a world alone.
I’ve made several generalizations in this post. I speak for so called “normal Americans.” Obviously can’t group 300 million people into one lump some because you’re going to have some crazies and radicals (see: KKK, et al.) But take it for what it’s worth.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 am
last post meant to say aren’t* thick skinned.
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:41 am
NOW THAT WE’VE GOT THIS LIST OUT OF THE WAY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LIST TITLED “TOP 10 WORST MOMENTS OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE”.
THANK YOU.
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:57 am
@Patriot (499):
‘We are the world’s most powerful military force, so it’s almost a given that we must fight wars. We can’t just take a break, because if we do, the world will be affected for the worse. We are the world’s Police Force, and in the same way with actual civil police forces, we are sometimes hated.’
You’re the reason people hate America mate. The above comment is soooooo fucking stupid. Sort your life out, you’re letting your country down and giving it a bad name.
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Worst list ever.
I have noticed a steady decline in the quality of the lists posted here.
This list should be removed and an apology made to the readers.
I will never visit this site again.
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
This isn’t a list about moments that have been bad in U.S history, this is an article meant to demonize the American people and paint Americans as Terrorists. This article is written from one hateful prospective and does not take the neutral overview that many of the quality articles on this site have.
I agree that this article should be removed and an apology issued.
Please take action immediately.
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:45 pm
@Matt (517):
My comment was addressed to the Americans on here who cannot fathom that their country has low points in its history, who are demanding this list be taken down, who have a strange persecution complex, and whose immediate reaction is to list worse moments in the history of other nations.
That is a thin-skinned reaction.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Speaking as man of African decent I can say that the UNITED STATES AND ALMOST ALL EUROPEON NATIONS have had great time fucking over AFRICA, THE MIDDLE EAST, MOST OF ASIA, MOST OF SOUTH AMERICA and quite a few island nations!!! So, screw all of you and your stupid debates over who’s better. You are all evil and descended from murderers and pillagers. Only when the curse of the white invader is over will the world be a better place.
The Euros here know what I’m talking about…how do you like the increasing black and middle eastern peoples in your countrys…you are being squeezed out and it is about time. The United States is feeling it too from the Latin Americans.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
@Objanja (524):
Obvious troll is obvious.
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Don’t take this list down. I fully support whoever posted this list because it is a good list and anyone who wants it down is just a cocky American.
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:28 pm
another crappy list with a liberal bias.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:24 pm
@gnostic(512): Who on McCarthy’s lists was proven by FBI decryption to be a Soviet spy? Were there any names on those lists he waved about at all? Because there were spies in the US does not excuse McCarthy’s irresponsible demagoguery and vicious character assassination.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:28 pm
@Really???(510):”America had to do what was necessary to end the war after so many American lives were lost in ww2.”
Well, that’s the assumption one keeps hearing. But was dropping an atomic bomb necessary? That’s the question that follows.
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:14 pm
porkido, yes it was necessary, your a meathead, read so many of the points written previously and you will have more then enough facts to say it was necessary…
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:06 am
@TJ2017(530):
I may be a meathead, but at least I’m not illiterate, and know the difference between “your” and “you’re”.
And what I see as ‘evidence’ above is people saying, over and over, how many would die in an invasion. This assumes an invasion was necessary, an assumption not everyone makes (or made). Neither General Eisenhower nor Admiral Nimitz made such an assumption.
Here is a sample ‘argument’, from above:
“What you are failing to understand, is that there are times for negotiation, and there are times for action. In the case of Imperial Japan in the 1940’s, negotiation was not an option, at all. The only option that remains, is action. Two ways to go about this action. Send virtually all US and allied forces island by island, killing every single Japanese soldier they came across before finally invading Japan itself. Or, drop millions of fliers into Japanese cities, waring them about a destructive new weapon we have, and will be using if they do not surrender immediately. Only one of these options saved countless lives, and it sure as hell was not the option to invade.”
Why was negotiation ‘not an option at all’? The Japanese had refused…but this sort of ‘game’ is certainly in the nature of diplomacy.
As I understand it, their war-making forces were badly crippled, their economy decimated… it probably wouldn’t have been long before they were forced to sue for peace. I even mentioned overtures they had made to the Russians, who might have brokered talks.
Perhaps none of this would have done any good; I’m certainly not a WW2 historian. But it seems that one exhausts all other reasonable options before one drops atomic bombs on cities.
Or maybe that’s just me.
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:22 am
According to a 1946 report from the US Strategic Bombing Survey, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were unnecessary, as the principal decision makers in Japan had decided as early as May 1945 to end the war, even if it meant accepting Allied terms.
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:35 am
MacArthur stated on numerous occasions before his death that the atomic bomb was unnecessary from a military perspective: “My staff was unanimous in believing that Japan was on the point of collapse and surrender.”
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:51 am
no pearl harbor? invasion of Iraq worse than 9/11. love your lists but get with it fella!
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:47 am
This is clearly racist.
December 3rd, 2009 at 12:06 pm
@Gary (535): You need to go back to troll school and pay attention this time around, because your comment is one of the most pathetic attempts at trolling I have seen yet. Now begone, level 0 noobtroll!
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Where is “Obama taking office”? Thats the bullet that kills us all right there.
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
McCarythism and Pearl Harbor, as well as KKK deserve a place here, and Bay of Pigs was terrible but nowhere near the scale of the events i mentioned. An Remember @stacy braswell and @giantshredder, this is a list of the BAD things to happen – you guys seem to be looking for a list of the GOOD things.
December 3rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Pearl Harbor.
The burning of Washington.
Oklahoma City bombing.
Bush and his cronies stealing the 2000 election (then running the country into the ground.)
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Where is “Stacy Braswell being informed, in 2009, of the existence of the Internet”? That’s the event that bores us all right there.
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:56 pm
This list was posted as a response to the ‘10 Greatest Moments in American History’ or whatever. I do not see how this list is American bashing, unless you idiot Americans (I do not mean all Americans, just the igorant ones) believe these things never happened. An American Bashing list would be ‘10 Reasons to Hate America’ or ‘10 Reasons Why America is a Terrible Nation’. Maybe the list about America was posted because most readers are from America, or American History is well known around the world. If I posted a ‘10 Worst Moments in Uzbekistan history’ you would all probably say ‘Who cares about Uzbekistan?’
December 3rd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Springs: If you submitted a list entitled “10 Worst Moments in Uzbek History”, I seriously doubt it would be published.
December 3rd, 2009 at 6:47 pm
@Springs (541):
1. you are preaching to the choir…it’s the idiots who take knee-jerk offense to being told they are taking knee-jerk offense…
2. misspelling ‘ignorant’ doesn’t help your case…
December 3rd, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Porkido you are doing the same thing mate, and sorry about the spelling if it really bothers you so much, I am so igorat.
December 3rd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
The reason it bothers me is that it’s usually indicative (though perhaps not in your case) of a careless response vomited out and then published, with absolutely no deeper consideration or reflection…no one bothers to spend 20 seconds to read over what they’ve just spurted…and the result is often stupidity.
Again, that’s not directed at you, but that’s why it’s so annoying.
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:20 pm
As long as we are allowed to post mean spirited hate about people from other countries, I would like to bring up the following:
Mexico: All of those people are either killing themselves in a drug war or trying to sneak into the US to pick apples.
England: Over 50 million people and not a dentist in sight.
Germany: They all must be like Hitler. You know, because he was German.
France: Homosexuality has its own country now… and they just surrendered.
Hey! Maybe I should do a top ten list too!
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:26 pm
These comments just go to show how ignorant nearly everyone of you is (nearly). People are saying no wars were ever fought on American soil. Civil War? French-Indian/Seven Years War? American Revolution? War of 1812? Texan War for Independence? These are all wars fought on American soil and all but one against foreign countries. Also, the conspiracy theorists need to shut up. Was 9/11 really an inside move? Everything that happened after? Osama bin-Laden escaping, Abu Ghraib, the continuing War on Terrorism? All that by President Bush? Moreover, most of you British people think that Pres. Bush is retarded, this is also ignorant. He graduated from Yale, one of the best academic institutions in the entire world. In addition, none of you, I repeat NONE of you know anything at all about if the CIA is working or not. If it fails, it becomes a headline around the world. If it succeeds, you hear nothing about it at all. The Patriot Act is programmed to picked up any mention of keywords (i.e. bomb, kill, destroy, al-Qaeda, Hezbollah etc.) and key in on only those conversations.
I also would like to point out one of the more ignorant statements made on this board, at least in my opinion. The poster (#79) was attempting to make a point about how the atomic bombs were the unjust maiming and killing of thousands of innocent Japanese; implying the Japanese were an entirely innocent people and had not done a single wrong in their quest for complete control of Asia. This is wrong. Most historians agree that the atrocities made by the Japanese, namely the Nanking Massacre, were as bad if not worse than the Holocaust by the Nazis. Now, many of you will scoff at me and say “how can anything be worse than that?” The reality is that it was. The Japanese soldiers, upon arriving in China, were immediately desensitized to killing. The only thing those Japanese soldiers stationed in China did were rape, maim, torture, and kill every Chinaman in their sights. They even held a contest for who could decapitate the most Chinese; a competition that was followed by the Japanese population as well as condoned. The winner only one because his opponents sword became so dull, he could only get through half the neck.
Nearly everyone in here, including the author of this list, is too naive and ignorant to consider what the people making these decisions actually thought. Do you really think that the majority of today’s U.S. population would be an advocate for slavery? Of course not. The nineteenth century lacked the scientific advancement to actually prove if blacks were inferior to whites. Another thing is why is Pearl Harbor not on this list? That could be considered the most traumatic and destructive moment/event in America’s history. Had we not been attacked randomly by the Japanese, we would have never declared war on Japan and Germany would have never declared it on us. The events after Pearl Harbor are history. WWII, the Cold War, Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Korea, everything was all because the imperialist emperor of Japan decided to bomb Hawaii.
Basically what I’m saying here is that 1.) Hardly any of you have any unbiased and logical opinions 2.) The British people on this forum who are bashing America for its wrongs conveniently forget that without our help, you would not have won either world war, you would have failed to keep the french out of North America, we are not enemies, etc. 3.) Some of you are just plain stupid 4.) Save for a few, nobody who has posted has experienced war, nor life under the oppression of the Taliban, dictators, nor starvation that some people have (all of whom America is trying to help). and 5.) This list is stupid.
Thank you
NOTE: I have too much time on my hands and zero-tolerance for stupid people on the internet.
**Obviously, I couldn’t address every comment or moment on the list, as many of them deserve equal attention to dissect their ignorance and/or stupidity.**
December 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 pm
“The poster (#79) was attempting to make a point about how the atomic bombs were the unjust maiming and killing of thousands of innocent Japanese; implying the Japanese were an entirely innocent people and had not done a single wrong in their quest for complete control of Asia.”
How does the former imply the latter?
(hint: it doesn’t)
Funny how you don’t really have to read a post that begins: “These comments just go to show how ignorant nearly everyone of you is…”
December 3rd, 2009 at 9:46 pm
@Mav101
A very well thought out and intelligent response. I agree entirely with the first paragraph. However in the second paragraph you imply that the entire Japanese people, not the Imperial Army, are responsible for the war atrocities committed against China and POWs. That is like saying every American supported the Vietnam War, the My Lai Massacre and the Invasion of Iraq. If that justifies the Atomic Bombings then if another country bombed the USA is it justified because of the My Lai Massacre? Of course it isn’t, not every American is responsible for the Vietnam War. I understand other poster’s reasons behind the Bombings, but not yours.
Ok, the 19th century Americans thought whites were superior to blacks because that was the norm, there was no proof that they were equal. Is it still racist? Of course it is! Mohammed married a nine-year old, but it was acceptable, is it still paedophillic? Yes!
The Bombings killed thousands of people but no invasion was necessary, the war was stopped and mllions of lives were possibly saved. Is it still a bad moment in human history? Yes, thousands died. WWII stopped Hitler and the Holocaust, it was still a terrible war where 58 million people died worldwide. And everything after Pearl Harbour was because of the Japanese bombings? Now that is ‘ignorant’. You could say it all happened because Hawaii was made American soil, or the Harbour was built in the first place, or the Declaration of Independence was signed, or in fact, the Vietnam War happened because Colombus discovered the Americas.
And every opinion is biased, if an opinion is unbiased it is a fact.
December 4th, 2009 at 1:47 am
I’ve seen several times how this is a “liberal” list… can someone explain that to me? Liberal as in American Democrats?
December 4th, 2009 at 5:27 am
What’s actually fascinating about this list is the provincialism of some of you. This list is obviously an attempt to continue to shame any person who lives here in America, since the current President seems intent on bowing down to every leader he can, and ignores everything the rest of the world has done.
I don’t recall us slaughtering/starving millions of people like, say, in China, Soviet Union and Germany.
I don’t recall America inventing slavery, but we sure as hell went to war to end it.
It would be better if some of you come here to visit, rather than read some biased writings about what you perceive about this country. Maybe you’d be less bitter because of it as well.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:00 am
as the U.S.A. is such a young nation, these 10 worst will in 200 years be completly different. History will show us if “liberating” Iraq was a good or bad thing. The war in Vietnam and those like it, was a war against an ideology. America’s resolve in fighting that war showed the world and the communist world especially that it was prepared to fight a protracted lengthy campaign paying with American lives and the lives of their Australian, New Zealand and South Korean allies. Those which will remain in the list will surely be the “trail of tears” and the repugnant slavery and segregation.
The crimes of the Roman and British empires and those of Stalin in his short time on the planet show us America’s 10 worst moments can be eclipsed ten fold.
December 4th, 2009 at 10:52 am
“…since the current President seems intent on bowing down to every leader he can, and ignores everything the rest of the world has done.”
Whoa there, cowboy…I know you want to challenge the world to a bare-knuckled brawl, kick some arse and take some names…THAT’S Amurica, am I right?
If you re-read your own post, perhaps the concept of provincialism will come more sharply into focus…
December 4th, 2009 at 11:41 am
every country has its fair share of mistakes or bad decisions as they look in hind sight, but most people did what was in best interest of the country at that moment. a country which only resorts to ” talks ” & fails to act is crushed, for example india, sooner or later pakistani terrorist will turn it into hell while indian leaders will be trying to talk to paki government from safety of there home.
December 4th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
There are several problems with this list. They are as follows:
1. The list is a knee-jerk reaction to the “10 Greatest Moments in American History” list, and is inspired by — let’s just say — a fear that someone, somewhere, may have a positive opinion of the United States. To this extent, I have to agree with the so-called rubes here that the list is, indeed, biased.
2. The list lacks consistency, mostly because the author does not define what he means by “the worst moments”. After all, Socrates himself said that the first step in any discussion is to define the terms. What makes a moment “worst”? What are the criteria? Is it a moment of shame or a moment of grief? A moment of victimhood or a moment victimizing? A moment of ineptitude? A moment of being sandbagged? This list is all over the place. I really don’t see why a moment when the United States is attacked upon its civilian population is put in the same category with the persecution of Cherokees by the US government.
3. The list contains at least one item based on conjecture (to put it charitably), rather than fact. To wit, that “some believe” that 9/11 was “an inside job”. Who cares what some nutcases and fanatics believe, unless the author is one of them? The idea is that IF 9/11 was “an inside job”, then it’s one of the worst moments. Yeah. And if the moon was made of green cheese … Being objective has nothing to do with indulging retarded hypotheticals.
4. The list confuses “worst” with CONTROVERSIAL and PROBLEMATIC — which again, is a problem of a lack of definitions. Certainly, the decision to drop nuclear bombs on Japan was controversial. There is no question that a tremendous number of people died, whole cities were leveled, and immense suffering was caused. But to say flat out that the bombings were the “worst” moment in the US history is to ignore the context of the bombing and the variables facing those in charge. It’s not like the President of the United States woke up one morning and decided to nuke Japan for no other reason than, you know, because fuck Japan. Very convincing arguments have been put forward to the effect that while devastating, the nuclear bombs resulted in far fewer casualties, both Japanese and certainly American, that would have been incurred in a conventional land invasion.
5. The list misleads by implying uniqueness. The author does not say that Americans invented genocide, for example — but, to create a list of the worst moments in AMERICAN history is to implicitly suggest that such moments are indeed unique to American history and never occurred anywhere else. In reality, none of them are. Examples:
– (1) The Trail of Tears: Lots of nations practiced populations transfers throughout history and well into the 20th century. The ancient Romans did it. The Normans did it. The Castilians did it. The British did it. The Soviets did it on an unprecedented scale (most notably with the Muslim Crimean Tatars), moving millions of people across thousands of miles from their ancestral lands. This does not make the treatment of Cherokees right — but in terms of sheer scale, it is minor compared to other instances of population transfer.
– (4)The Stock Market Crash: The Great Depression was a worldwide phenomenon, not just an American one.
– (5) Internment Camps: Wrong, but again, child’s play compared to the GULAG’s of the Soviet Union or the Nazy Germany’s concentration camps.
– (Bonus) McCarthyism: Thousands of people were accused and questioned. Some Hollywood directors and actors never got to work in film again. This is dwarfed by what the Soviet Union did to dissidents. People there were tortured, deported to GULAG’s, subjected to medical experiments. Not being able to make movies was an afterthought. And in the end, it was the free press that brought Senator McCarthy down. Did it not?
6. The list darkens the picture by omitting important follow-up information. The Dred Scott decision was “on the books” for only 11 years. It was superseded by the 14th Amendment, adopted in 1868.
December 4th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
@Redisca (555):
Well put.
December 4th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
“Very convincing arguments have been put forward to the effect that while devastating, the nuclear bombs resulted in far fewer casualties, both Japanese and certainly American, that would have been incurred in a conventional land invasion.”
Yes, but let’s, once again, be clear: the necessity of a conventional land invasion was/is an assumption. And let’s also be clear that there were reasons to drop the bombs not directly related to this assumption.
“And in the end, it was the free press that brought Senator McCarthy down. Did it not?”
Was it not the free press which at first propelled him to a position of increased attention and power?
And if you apply your criteria to all Listverse lists, treating them as scholarly analyses rather than something to read on the pot (assuming you have a laptop), you will dwell permanently in disappointment…
December 4th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
@porkido: one on the FBI’s list was (hell, had the name a moment ago. . .in meltdown today gave presentation on autism, I am. Think the name is . . .) I. F. Stone, a paid communist agent and US political journalist – part of the “free press” that screwed McCarthy. Opinion ma differ, fact doesn’t. Find and read the books.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:35 am
Wow….as a serving member of the US military…I would like to say this: How about for every person hating on America, and talking shit…..the next time your country goes to war or gets invaded, I think America should just let you get taken over. Yeah, since we’re all so stupid and lazy we shouldn’t do anything anyway. Funny how you diss, then come crying to us when you need help. It’s happened too many times to count.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:55 am
One person. One example. And a debated example at that, an example who openly fought reactionary politics and was hardly a covert agent, in any case.
How many Reds did McCarthy claim had infiltrated the State Department, the Army, etc.? The number kept changing. The accusations were made and never proved. Careers, lives were used as fodder for political ambition.
I’ve done the research. I don’t see it. If you have more than ONE example, please inform us.
(p.s. McCarthy screwed McCarthy…and to insinuate that the “free press” was somehow part of a Soviet conspiracy is at best a cheap shot, at worst dishonest)
December 5th, 2009 at 6:01 am
porkido is good at argumentum ad ignoratum. A good way to keep one’s views intact is to fail tpo challenge.Clobber them. To debate with one who disagrees – After Having Read The Book(s) – is a wonderful experience. To debate with a brick is unrewarding. Go get ‘em, dude. Clobber them with the imagined. Or read some history and improve.
A couple of years ago Kazan died. Even now the anti McCarthy feeings in our pres are strong = rather than a sad eulogy, our press derided him for “naming names” and BTW” the Democrats wantd McCarthy to name names – look it up.
google “Venona” gooogle “McCarthy was right” google or get a damned book and learn.
December 5th, 2009 at 6:31 am
@Nathan (559):
Name one.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
@gnostic(561):
What I’m telling you is that I’ve done the reading. And I’m telling you that McCarthy made wild accusations he couldn’t prove. I’m telling you he destroyed people by using unsubstantiated rumor and slander. I’m telling you he was driven by ambition, and used lies and insinuation to build a career (temporarily, thank goodness) at the expense of his victims.
OK, so you read a book. Congratulations. As I’ve said, I’ve read a few myself. And pretty much all your on-line sources are conservative sites with a glaringly obvious axe to grind.
And the issue is not whether there were Soviet spies in the US; of fucking course there were spies (as we had spies abroad as well). The issue is whether Joseph McCarthy uncovered a network of Soviet spies in the State Department, the Army, and elsewhere; or whether he used deceit and fear to create hysteria, attack his political enemies, and satisfy his ambitions.
After all, Mao was correct that there were reformers who sought to ‘Westernize’ the Chinese economy…does that justify the Cultural Revolution?
(and before you poop your panties, I’m not comparing McCarthy and Mao per se, only making a point about victims of ideological extremism)
December 6th, 2009 at 8:12 am
I am really surprised that we still haven’t had JFrater weigh in on this list. If for nothing less than to explain to us why we has left the list up.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:16 am
There can be no denying that the atomic bombs dropped on Japan was a massive tragedy.I’ve always remembered what my late friend Ed told me about his father who was a soldier in the US Army & fought in Europe.When he & his fellow soldiers heard the news about Japan & the atmoic bombs they were enormously relieved.They had survived the war in Europe & that alone was a miracle.They knew that they would have been shipped over to Japan next for the invasion of the island & that the odds they would also make it through alive again in this battle were very low.That’s how the G.I.’s looked at it at that time.
December 6th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
@Scott (564):
JF does not need to explain why the list is staying up. There really is nothing wrong with the list that requires it to be removed. Apparently it is somewhat controversial, but it is not plagiarised, defamatory/libelous, nor in any other way breaks the rules of LV. Just because a few Seppos can’t handle the idea that anything bad happened to their country is not grounds for taking it down.
And if it were to be removed I would be 1st in the queue demanding the removal of the 10 great moments list.
Cheers
Lee
December 6th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
#555 Redisca
Bravo. Well put and logical. Thank you for your common sense in a world that (as this list shows) has so little of it.
Again, this is a stupid, stupid list and should have been removed a long time ago
December 6th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
@Redisca (555):
1. – Why is it a knee jerk reaction? ARe you telling me that the USA has never had any bad moments?
2. – pure obfuscation on your part.
3. – Crap. The first two words of the item – Terrorist Madmen nothing to equivocal there. secondly regardless of the whack job theories are you seriously trying to say 9/11 is not a ‘worst’ moment in US history? I also would have preferred the author to dwell a little more on the act itself than the political aftermath. After all it was the bombing that is the moment not the ensuing war.
4. – Again you seem to be saying because it was a controversial decision it cannot be a ‘worst’ moment. I would suggest that there are enough responses that support the authors viewpoint to justify it’s inclusion.
5. – Not at all. And to leave out f.i. The Trail of Tears or McCarthyism or the Depression just because others have also suffered the same or worse does not make these shining lights in US history. Two wrongs do not make a right, nor does somebody else’s wrong negate your wrongdoing.
6. – Agree that the follow up would have been useful.
Cheers
Lee
December 6th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
@Doug B (567):
Stupidity is no reason for removing alist from LV.
Cheers
Lee
December 6th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
@Mike (565):
Thought you had left?
@Mike (521):
I will never visit this site again.
Cheers
Lee
December 6th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
@TJ2017 (374):
“woyzeck, i’d love to know what school you went to? because i’m sure it’s a very libral biased school taught by bleeding heart profs, which greatly influenced your decision and what you choose to look at and view your research…”
Actually it was rather the opposite, of my two professors one was a former paratrooper who advocated a “war is war” approach to controversial topics. Unlike you, however, he was willing to engage with opposing arguments rather than just trying to impose some incredibly narrow-minded worldview on them.
“funny tho how you don’t mention anything about the allied ALLIED bombings of dresdan…”
Why would I mention Dresden specifically? It has little relevence to what we’re talking about. I also didn’t mention Hamburg or Berlin or any of the other cities which were carpet-bombed during the Second World War. If you want to read about them then go down to your fucking local library, don’t come on here just *expecting* me to make mention of them, ya dumb shit.
“or axis bombings of london…”
Almost incomparable to carpet bombing, both in intention and effect.
“what people don’t understand about this was that it was a world war! there were no civilians, it was nation vs nation…”
There are no civilians during a world war? Since when? Says who?
“the way the ppl who ran the war thought, those who build weapons are just as much a target as the soldiers on the line…”
That is not the way the people who “ran the war” thought (what do you mean, the fucking referees?) as evidenced by their treatment of civilians throughout most of the war. Why is it OK to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki but it isn’t OK to wipe out over 600 entire villages in Belarus? Hell, if you want to take that view then surely the Nazis were justified in their use of death camps – after all, they were populated by enemies of the state, weren’t they?
“people of england realized it…hence why a good many left the cities, after all the bombing that japan faced, as a full nation at war…”
They didn’t evacuate because they accepted they were targets, they evacuated because the cities were being bombed. And those who evacuated were primarily children, do you think the children would have thought of themselves as “as much a target as the soldiers”? Do you think those in charge of the evacuation considered the children acceptable targets?
“there was not national outcry for peace or surrender, ppl don’t understand that this was a war where there were no civilians or soldiers only…the japanese didn’t go after only soldiers, hell they abused nurses and POW’s worse the the nazi’s, i don’t know why ppl agrue about the bombings when it was an all out war…”
You don’t know because you’re fucking ignorant. If you take this attitude towards one side in a war then you justify it in another. Yes, the Japanese treated their prisoners apallingly. That doesn’t automatically justify attempting to wipe out entire populations.
“can anyone honestly say that the japanese would have hesitated to use it against the US or the british, or Canadians?”
No, I think they would have used it. But they didn’t fucking have it, did they? This wasn’t a Wild West shootout. This wasn’t some kind of ‘quick draw’, us or them attack. It was a decision to nuke two civilian cities (I know you don’t like to be reminded of the fact that they were civilians, but they almost all were).
“when the decision was made to drop the bomb it was because it was deemed the best way to end the war in the pacific with the fewest amount of casualties,”
No it wasn’t. It was considered the fastest way to end the war with the most amount of casualties, thus forcing the Japanese hand. Other options which took the same amount of time but resulted in *fewer* casualties were considered not shocking enough to the Japanese people, and ways of ending the war which would have taken longer would have resulted in more deaths. Note, however, that most of these deaths would have been of soldiers rather than civilians, but let’s not stray too far into “what if” territory.
“and if japan was so eager to surrender and save the lives of its ppl why did it not surrender after the first bombing? why did nagasaki have to be bombed aswell…”
After the first bombing, the Japanese war council and Hirohito were looking exclusively at their options for surrender. The chief of the army shat a brick when he heard that the Russians had declared war on them and declared martial law was to be imposed. He did not have the support of Hirohito or the war council. Whether Nagasaki would have been necessary after Hiroshima is endlessly debatable, but I personally think that the Japanese Army would have wound up in a stalemate with the Red Army and would have soon supported surrender. The idea to bomb Nagasaki was a quickly-made decision to force Japan to surrender. But this is not a history lesson, and the morality of it is a different matter.
“why didn’t japan surrender when it was offered after hiroshima?”
I believe that they assumed that Hiroshima was the only nuclear bombing they would have to endure. Perhaps they had a little too much faith in the Allies. The fact is that they were in the process of drafting surrender conditions when the second bombing took place. They didn’t immediately surrender because they feared their country would be laid waste by the Russians if they were allowed to occupy, which was a genuine threat to them after the Russians made for Manchukuo.
I hope I’ve elucidated the subject for you, but Jesus Christ… how can you cast aspersions on my education when you have to ask such God-damn simple questions about the history of the bombings?
December 6th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
@Woyzeck (571):
Damn. Well said.
December 6th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
@ Lee.
As controversial as this list is, I believe we are owed an explanation. And I would say that this list is defamatory. Take for instance #9. “ (Some accounts suggest it was an inside job, or a horrific case of neglect)”. There are no credible reports to back up this claim of “inside job”. Also look at: “ The campaign is still going on and has spilled into neighboring Pakistan, India & Iran, highlighting the inability of American forces to contain the war.” Again this is the author’s (defamatory) opinion and not a fact. “The war has been less successful in achieving the goal of restricting al-Qaeda’s movement than anticipated. Really? Because the leader of the Taliban has to hide in caves now. What sources is the author using? Because I can site several military reports that the Taliban’s terror operation has been restricted.
So yes, Lee. This list is defamatory and should be removed. I understand that some people may not like my country, but for a neutral website to allow this piece of garbage to be posted is insulting.
I would be understanding of this list if facts were stated, but this list isn’t about facts. It’s about someone trying to bash the United States.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Rather than worst moments in US history (for the US) it seems that this is worst things the US has done (for the most part.) As for worst moments what about The British burning and sacking Washington D.C. in the war of 1812? What about the aftermath of hurricane Katrina? What about any of the various presidential assassinations? Maybe this list should be slightly redone and retitled “Ten Horrible things the United States has done Even Though for the Most Part the Rest of the World was doing Much, Much Worse Things at the Same Time as these Events”
December 7th, 2009 at 6:52 am
This is completely biased to the left. You should be ashamed of yourselves
December 7th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Not a bad list though many people have been bitching about it. This list only shows that there is more blood in American history than in that of any other nation. McCartheism, 9/11 and war against Iraq being the filthiest acts against humanity.
December 7th, 2009 at 7:59 am
The victims of the Nazi Concentration Camps & Stalin’s Purges in the Soviet Union might want to debate that with you eletrocosmic.
December 7th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Maybe this list should be slightly redone and retitled “America sucks because it resembles a large set of balls without a penis; it just smothers another country with its balls and doesnt have the penis to finish the job…” *Oh, Scott (573), you need a penis, looks like dumb-ass republican propaganda took yours!
December 7th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Crappy list. The bomb, really? While dropping the atomic bomb(s) on Japan may seem like a worst moment to the ignorant unread masses, the truth is that without it the war would have continued and millions would have died. Millions of US and Japanese soldiers. The only group entirely to blame for the annihilation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the war loving idiots from the Japanese army who wanted to continue fighting until the very end. Truman was 100% correct in unleashing that monster on Japan at the time.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:19 am
@Woyzeck (571):
Woyzeck, you know I love you, man, and I admire your propensity and talent for the devastating insult. But I have to contradict you a bit on these thoughts regarding the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Before I go into that, though, a word of agreement. The Allied bombings of Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin… and for that matter Tokyo, Yokohoma, etc., were FAR greater in scope and destruction than any of the Nazi bombings of cities (with the possible, iffy exception of Warsaw). Rotterdam, Coventry, London, etc. simply don’t hold a candle to the destruction that was wrought by the Allies on the aforementioned German and Japanese cities. And as you probably know, the reason for this was partly policy and partly technology and superior Allied production capacity. The Allies had, in the first place, four engine bombers–which the Germans, early in the war, had decided to eschew (they developed a couple of models that were only produced in very low numbers). Furthermore, the Allies had air forces which were largely independent of their respective armies–in short, they were able to carry out a *strategic* air campaign—which the Germans, with their air force tied to ground control much of the time–were not able to do.
The destruction of German and Japanese cities was, therefore, strategic—the idea was to knock out not only strict military targets, but also industrial, governmental and communication/transportation targets—with the express purpose of reducing, compromising, and possibly even wiping out the enemy’s ability to make war. This was a sound strategy that, it can be argued, DID work. And the atomic bombings were clearly part of that strategy.
Now… as it happens, the British practiced what we would call carpet bombing. These were night time raids (the British rarely bombed by day, which they considered far too dangerous) in which bombs would be dropped en masse over a target area in hopes of wiping out the selected target. In the early days of strategic bombings, these targets were never simply “German cities.” They were specific industries, production centers, etc. (also of course military targets). The American strategic theory, however, relied on what was called “daylight high altitude precision bombing.” This was the idea of dropping bombs on a *specific* target—a factory, a building, a railroad, what have you. It worked only to a certain degree, and was highly dangerous until the advent of fighter aircraft which could accompany the bombers.
Okay… we know all this.
Now, as the war progressed, the idea of keeping civilians “separate” from the destruction became less and less practical—and, let’s face it—less of a priority. WWII was particularly brutal and horrific, and it’s not surprising that the humanity of ALL combatants AND civilian populations began to suffer. Of course, some of this WAS choice—certainly, in regards to the bombing of Japanese cities, there was an element of “payback” for Pearl Harbor which cannot be denied. And certainly a good deal of racism was involved as well.
Curtis LeMay was directly responsible for the decision to essentially carpet bomb Japanese cities—and not just with conventional high explosives, but with incendiary devices—which virtually guaranteed the wholesale destruction of those cities and the deaths of thousands of civilians. Again, the atom bomb fits into this strategy.
The idea behind it, however, was not simply LeMay’s desire to wipe out the Japanese people. His idea was to shorten the war and end it *without* an invasion, which most military planners felt would be bloody as all hell, for both sides. The problem was that the high altitude precision bombing was not working as well, nor as fast, as it had in Germany. (In fact, dispersal had negated some of its effect in Germany as well, though not all industries were able to be dispersed effectively). It took time for bases that were large enough and well-placed to be wrested from the Japanese via the island campaigns. Until then, LeMay had to make do with logistically difficult raids based from China—which meant long flying times, huge supply issues, and, in the end, ineffective missions. Japanese industries were still largely intact. Realizing that these factories and production centers were not only strewn in the midst of all the major Japanese cities, but were also supported by huge numbers of “shadow industries,” i.e., home production of various key components LITERALLY in the homes of civilians—LeMay made the decision of trying carpet bombing instead–and with a payload that was mostly incendiary with a few high explosive bombs.
Again, the atom bombs were basically follow ups on this strategy–they were simply ways of destroying a whole city with one plane instead of fifty or a hundred. All the military strategists knew was that this was a bomb of unprecedented destructive power.
Okay, so use it. The attitude at the time was: the Japanese had bombed our fleet at Pearl in a sneak attack, without a proper declaration of war beforehand. They’d mistreated their prisoners. They’d fought to the death in the island campaigns far beyond the call of reason or logic. They were treacherous, barbaric… they’d pretend to surrender and then blow up the men taking them prisoner with hidden explosives. They mutilated the bodies of prisoners—the living and the dead. The stories of the horrors of Nanking, etc. had leaked out… and the experience of the men in combat in the Pacific was that the Japanese were growing MORE reticent as the war grounded on, not less—as we got closer to Japan, they became if anything more fanatical, more vicious. And we knew that the Japanese planners in the home islands were calling for the populace of the empire to rise up to repel any invaders.
In short, the war in the Pacific had become a horror of blood and torture and atrocities–committed by BOTH sides. Read ANY accounts of it, and this comes out clear and unmistakeable. We’d hated the Nazis for their totalitarian criminality and their unprecedented brutality–but the hatred for the Japanese was even more profound, based on revenge and racism. (Remembering that the Japanese were highly racist as well—considering ALL other peoples to be subhuman, and simply fodder for the Japanese Imperial machine).
The atom bomb, in this context, becomes understandable. Not excusable. But understandable.
And let’s get away from this idea that civilians ought to always be spared in war. It’s a nice one, yes, and should be practiced where possible. But it also has a childish, unrealistic, absurdly moralistic component to it.
War is not a game; it’s a horror and a tragedy. That’s what the atom bombings were. Horrors and tragedies. But there’s an argument to be made that adhering to a philosophy of “sparing the civilian at all costs” only prolongs and even popularizes war. When you distance the civilian from the destruction and horror—when you place war ONLY or mainly on the shoulders of the “professional soldier,” you sanitize it for the people at home. You make it “glorious,” even. But at the very least you make it distant and separate from its own reality. And this can make war MORE likely, not less… as the DECISION to go to war is usually in the hands of civilians, one way or another, even in nations with dictatorial governments at times. Why worry about the horror of war when the civilian will never have to face it? If we can’t see it or witness it or experience it–if THAT joy is only the provence of the soldier—then what’s the incentive, REALLY, in keeping it from happening?
The answer is the whole history of war in the world up UNTIL the 20th century. War was a “glory,” a noble undertaking. Only the soldier knew otherwise.
This is not to say, of course, that we should take war immediately to the homeland. But the idea that war should NEVER be brought to the civilian–even if it means lengthening it for the soldier and brutalizing it even more for him—is absurd and morally childish.
It can, in fact, be argued that we kept from destroying ourselves during the fifty years of the Cold War because of the MEMORY of the horrors of WWII on the part of both sides. Now, America had not experienced this on the civilian front. But after the war we saw what had been done to the cities of Europe at our hands (though the “fault” was considered to be the Nazis’) and more importantly we saw had happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and even if we felt the Japanese “had it coming to them,” we recognized the sheer, unbridled horror of it and did NOT want it happening here.
I submit that we are all here today because a generation of Americans and Russians knew all this and resisted their worst impulses to do it again, because they couldn’t stand the horror of the idea of that kind of large scale war.
Now… on to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
In fact, these cities were NOT “mostly civilian.” They were both considered legitimate military targets because they housed large army/navy contingents (Hiroshima, for example, was home to a Japanese army numbering in the thousands—all killed by the bomb—and was the base of a contingent of the Japanese fleet) as well as industries vital to the Japanese war effort. They were not simply peaceful civilian cities without any military targets.
“No it wasn’t. It was considered the fastest way to end the war with the most amount of casualties, thus forcing the Japanese hand.”
I would submit, also, that this is not entirely accurate. Yes, the atom bombs were considered the fastest way to end the war, by forcing the Japanese hand due to what we today would call “shock and awe.” But the point to them was NOT to produce the “greatest number of casualties.” It was, in fact, considered that the destruction of those cities would REDUCE casualties which would SURELY occur should an invasion become necessary.
A brutal, barbaric, bloody tradeoff, yes. But that’s what war is.
“Other options which took the same amount of time but resulted in *fewer* casualties were considered not shocking enough to the Japanese people,”
Sorry, Woy… but WHAT other options are you referring to here? Conventional bombing? That campaign continued unabated and up to then had NOT produced a surrender. What else are you referring to?
“and ways of ending the war which would have taken longer would have resulted in more deaths.”
Absolutely right. Let’s not forget that the killing was CONTINUING in China AND the pacific… in the period of time between the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, THOUSANDS were killed and maimed on both sides, including the sinking of the Indianapolis, which wiped out nearly the entire crew of that ship.
“Note, however, that most of these deaths would have been of soldiers rather than civilians,”
And I’m sorry—but in what way do you mean to suggest that that is “okay?”
I’m afraid it simply isn’t. We DO have ideas of “combatants” and “non-combatants.” And they are legitimate. But when war has reached its pinnacle of brutality, horror, misery and destruction—how DO you distinguish between the two–combatant and non-combatant? One wears a uniform and the other doesn’t—and that’s about it, in the end.
THAT is why war is to be avoided and hated. Because no matter what our rules of conduct about it may be, the rules are slowly ground down the longer war drags on. You begin to ask what SENSE there is to sparing the civilians of an enemy state if all that’s doing is PROLONGING the war, which means death, horror and bloodletting for the soldier. To say that is his lot in life, his job—is a cold and morally naive way of viewing one’s own humanity.
And here I’ll say something. It is quite possible that I and my entire family—my siblings, and my own children, are alive today because of the two atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Why? Because my father was in combat in the Pacific in WWII. He was a B-25 bomber pilot. He had been stationed first in New Guinea and then the Phillippines. I know from the history of where he was and what he was doing that on many occasions he risked his life and was a hairs breadth away from being shot out of the sky. This risk ended on the day the Japanese accepted the surrender terms.
If they hadn’t–it is quite possible he would have gone on to service flying bombing missions over Japan in support of the invasion… and might have been killed in that effort. Countless other American, British, Dutch, Chinese and Filipino people alive today can say similar things… as can many Japanese. It is quite possible that our lives were bought with those atomic bombs. It’s certain that some of our lives definitely were. I don’t mean this as a moral judgement or a justification. I merely state it as fact, and something to consider. War is simply never a matter of black and white. And while war itself is a crime—we should never forget that oftentimes it also the *punishment* of a crime.
It is, in fact, a tragedy that I may be here today because 200,000 or so people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki had to die. I’m not proud of it. It sickens me. But it also sickens me that millions of people died in that war and never had the chance to have the children and grandchildren that would have been my counterparts.
How do we tally a question like that up? What becomes right and wrong? Should my father and countless other fathers, brothers, grandfathers, sons, brothers—have died or been rendered nonexistent in order to save the men, women and children of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Many of whom may have been killed anyway, in a possible invasion? Or in conventional bombings?
I don’t know how you answer a question like that, morally or otherwise.
I only know that in time of war, questions like that MIGHT get asked, but the answer is rarely to spare the enemy so that our own soldiers might die. I don’t know ANY nation that would make such a decision.
“After the first bombing, the Japanese war council and Hirohito were looking exclusively at their options for surrender.”
That, I’m afraid, is NOT true. Hirohito and a contingent within the government WERE seeking means to surrender, but a VERY vocal and numerous contingent in the government and military were VEHEMENTLY opposed to the idea. The army especially was reluctant for two reasons: one, they had not had the chance to engage the enemy on a full scale for a VERY long time–the island campaign had rendered this impossible. They viewed a “last fight” in the homeland, then, as their means of “saving face,” which was very important to the Japanese notion of “bushido,” the warrior code. Likewise, two, they were opposed to the idea of surrender not only because it would bring shame upon them, but because it would risk war crimes charges being brought against them.
“The chief of the army shat a brick when he heard that the Russians had declared war on them and declared martial law was to be imposed. He did not have the support of Hirohito or the war council.”
It IS true that the entry of the Russians into the war scared the Japanese. But we do NOT know definitively–and never will–that they would have surrendered SOLELY on that basis. Perhaps they would have. Eventually. Perhaps before the home islands could be invaded. But how many would have died in the meantime?
And all of this is conjecture. The very “what if” kind of thing you said you wished to avoid.
“Whether Nagasaki would have been necessary after Hiroshima is endlessly debatable,”
Only to a certain point. The fact remains that Hiroshima did NOT lead to a Japanese surrender. The cabinet was still divided, the military still largely opposed to surrender. What Hiroshima had done was to strengthen the resolve of the pro-surrender camp to push for surrender, perhaps. But they could not accomplish it… not until Nagasaki was bombed three days later.
The idea that we should have sat back and allowed the Japanese more time to “think it over” seems, on the surface, to be reasonable. But when you delve deeper you see the pointlessness of it on the part of the Allies. The Japanese had, in fact, a great deal of time prior to this to “think it over.” They had been losing the war ever since Midway in 1942. Their empire had steadily been pummeled and decreased in size until nothing was left of it except contingents on isolated islands, and the vast contigent of men still clinging to parts of China and Korea, and of course the Home islands. Clearly they were NOT going to win. But they failed to surrender–even when their cities were systematically destroyed one by one by bombing.
By saying we should have waited longer between Hiroshima and Nagasaki, what one is suggesting is that the Allies were possessed of our hindsight regarding the peculiar nature of the atom bomb which did not in fact exist. You must remember that at the time no one outside of the scientists who created the bombs—and even they had no real experience of it until Trinity—understood it fully or realized what it was. There was no understanding of “radiation” and the horror of the heat and blast wave of an atomic explosion. It was simply understood as a new way of wreaking more destruction on the enemy with fewer risk to oneself.
To suggest, then, that maybe the Americans should have waited longer between the two bombings—well, that’s looking back on them from OUR point of view. Not theirs at the time.
“but I personally think that the Japanese Army would have wound up in a stalemate with the Red Army and would have soon supported surrender.”
How LONG might that have taken? How many Japanese, Russians–and in the meantime, Chinese and Americans—would have died until the Japanese came around to the futility of what they were doing. Up to now, the Japanese HAD NO concept of “futility.” They believed that the only honorable way to fight war was to fight—to never surrender. How long would it have taken for them to finally swallow that and give up?
“The idea to bomb Nagasaki was a quickly-made decision to force Japan to surrender.”
I’m not quite sure what you mean by “quickly-made.” Truman was informed of the bomb’s existence just after FDR’s death. The military recommendation was that the bomb be used and that it could shorten the war. Truman then gave the go-ahead. But if by “quickly-made” you wish to suggest that someone should have “educated” Truman and his military advisors as to the nature of the bomb–whom do you suggest should have done this? Oppenheimer and the other scientists responsible? What could they have said? It is a bomb of unprecedented destructive force that will kill thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands. It will create hellish temperatures that will vaporize people, burn others alive… it will create a windstorm that will destroy buildings instantaneously. It may create radiation that will poison and kill thousands in the course of days… some longer.
WE TODAY know what all this means. We’ve seen it. We’ve seen the pictures, the films, the written reports of the survivors. NO ONE at that time had ANY such knowledge.
Try to tell someone who doesn’t know what it’s like to be shot at, or to be in hand-to-hand combat. Or to jump out of an airplane into ground fire. It isn’t easy. Imagine how much harder to paint a picture of the most destructive and horrendous thing ever invented by man, before anyone had seen it, except a test in the desert which killed no one, maimed no one, destroyed nothing.
“I believe that they assumed that Hiroshima was the only nuclear bombing they would have to endure.”
I’m not sure what you’re basing this statement on. The Potsdam declaration was clear enough. They were told to expect destruction. I see no reason for them to have thought otherwise.
“The fact is that they were in the process of drafting surrender conditions when the second bombing took place.”
The Japanese knew that the Allied demand was for UNCONDITIONAL surrender. Now, arguing that is another matter, but we do know that the terms they were prepared to propose were NEVER going to be accepted by the allies. Some of it involved a demand for Japanese hegemony over parts of East Asia, free access to resources, and NO trials for any Japanese officers–and NO occupation.
The suggestion is that we bombed the Japanese discriminately when they were prepared to “surrender.” But this is a gross oversimplifacation that does NOT represent the situation that truly pertained–namely, that in fact the Japanese were NOT prepared to accept the Potsdam declaration until AFTER Nagasaki—up to then, their idea of “surrender” would not EVER have met with the approval of the Allies. Nor should it have been.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
@khadfa (189):
that stupid “chinaontv” keeps popping up for me too, and the only way for me to get rid of it is to shut everything! WTF is this anyways???
December 7th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
@Randall (580):
Bravo! You have surpassed yourself Sir. Quite the best explanation of the justification for using The Bomb I have read on LV.
Cheers
Lee
December 7th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
@Randall (580)
Wow! You just put into words the very points I have made and tried to make, but didn’t have the patience to write it all. That easily could be a lecture at any university. A very good lecture that all students should hear.
Doug
December 8th, 2009 at 12:32 am
@Randall (580) + @Woyzeck (571)
Hey guys! Try leaving your mah’s basement and finding a life – these debates mean shit all! Think you are taking this a little too seriously. Get your respective mums to give you some pocket money and get some friends, real-life friends with skin, flesh and bone. Maybe even a Girlfriend/Boyfriend…
December 8th, 2009 at 7:13 am
@Roo (584):
I agree with you Roo. Discussing important issues on the internet is for sissies. Real boys like you attack displays of intelligence wherever they see them. I mean, they might project their own inadequacies in their insults, but at least you can craft poorly worded attacks on the unknown details of an online personality’s actual life.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:50 am
That sentence should actually read:
“you might project your own inadequacies in your insults, but at least you can craft poorly worded attacks on the unknown details of an online personality’s actual life.”
Meh.
December 9th, 2009 at 3:54 am
@Scratch(585):
Ahhh, very clever Scratch, your patronising blend of scarcasm knows no bounds…touché and clap clap to you sir/madam. Go and have a cookie.
December 9th, 2009 at 7:42 am
@Roo (587):
Thank you, I will have a cookie. You can keep the clap though.
Scratch: patronizing idiots on the internet since 1999.
December 9th, 2009 at 8:10 am
Interesting list but I have to disagree with a couple. Granted the only reason we went into Iraq was because Bush Jr. was mad at Saddam for trying to bump off his daddy. But you seem to have a bias against fighting under any circumstance.
We could have won in Vietnam except we had a president (Johnson) who wanted to control the war from Washington so we had soldiers not allowed to return enemy fire and a multitude of other fiascos.
There was an Englishman, and I forget his name, that said:
War is and ugly thing but not the ugliest. A man who is unwilling to fight and defend his freedom is a miserable creature who is kept free only by the exertions and sacrifice of better men than himself.
December 9th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
It remains unclear what the Japanese would have done, given counterfactual circumstances. What is clear is that the opinion that dropping atomic bombs was necessary to end the war without an Allied invasion was hardly unanimous. Eisenhower, MacArthur, and LeMay all made statements to suggest they believed otherwise, and the US Strategic Bombing Survey report of 1946 suggested the same:
“Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945 [the date of the planned American invasion], Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.”
In addition, many of the participants in the Manhattan Project petitioned the President to avoid using the bomb…though Fermi, Oppenheimer, and others demurred…
(a good collection of documents regarding the decision can be found here: http://www.dannen.com/decision/index.html)
But even assuming its use was indeed necessary, it seems reasonable that there was another very important reason to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and that it had as much to do with a demonstration of America’s role as a world superpower as it did with Japanese surrender. Perhaps the more pertinent question is not whether we should have bombed, but why we didn’t bomb Moscow…
December 9th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
http://www.dannen.com/decision/
December 9th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
@dustyu (589):
It’s unclear to me how we were defending our (i.e. American) freedom in Vietnam…
December 10th, 2009 at 2:42 am
@Scratch (588)
Correction:
Scratch: A patronizing idiot, on the internet since 1999.
Bless…
December 10th, 2009 at 8:17 am
@Roo (593):
lol. That was actually funny.
But you’re still an idiot, and you still have gonorrhea.
December 11th, 2009 at 12:35 am
On number 3, casualties means deaths so your statistics on the battle are a bit confusing.
December 11th, 2009 at 12:37 am
@Scratch (594):
Ran out of ammunition Scratch? Bit of a predictable retort. The STD things a bit Amateurish; unless you are actually 10 years old and are still at primary school.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:07 am
@Roo (596):
Ooooooooooooooh, burn.
I mean, it burns doesn’t it? Gonorrhea, that is.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
@tryingnottogetexcomd (595):
I think you are mistaken…’casualties’ generally include serious injuries…and sometimes troops missing and captured as well…
December 12th, 2009 at 3:31 am
Would something that occurs to America be worse then something that the US causes overseas?
America’s overseas intervention using the CIA throughout the Cold War should top many things on the list.
December 13th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Barrages of comments from individuals who like to remind the rest of the world how much they owe America, in my view do more damage to the USA’s international image than any list or topic discussed here – or in any other forum for that matter. Some really have to start appreciating that. You can’t demand respect or eternal gratitude from generations of people in faraway places by abusing them into bowing to your greatness. In the eyes of this non-American, the “America-bashing” on this thread and others, usually starts when Americans start attacking each other. Also, as an outsider it often seems to be Americans from a particular side of the political fence that vent the most hatred and aggression – just an observation.
Good list – I had little to no knowledge of numbers 1 to 3 previously – never having studied American History specifically. But hey, I recently had a young american university student react in disbelief when she found out we didn’t celebrate the 4th of July in my country. It’s a big world out here.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:28 am
. Many companies all over the world need your opinions on their products. They will send you a simple online survey forms, where you need to fill it out and they pay you money.
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December 15th, 2009 at 12:14 am
All the comments made are bullshit , to get so up in arms about this list is plain silly . All war is unjust it is created to serve the selfish ideals of a few powerfull and evil men . Britain , Germany , France , Japan , Russia- America has commited unspeakable attrocities just like them , and to be so passionatly defended by so many ppl is really sad . we are all being used by world powers to serve their selfish gains , we might be citizens of our specific countries but we dont have to be ideological slaves following blindly whatever our goverment tells us , unfortunatly Americans think their independance is greater than their international counterparts , but america is on par with Russia and China with its political control of basic freedoms – americans haver sold themselve to their goverment for nothing but a few cheap words , junk food and lame mulitimedia distractions . When you free your self from your cuultral imperialism , you can see the world as it truly is the greatest prison floating around this galaxy , 9/11 was the same as the Reichstad fire – can any1 proove other wise cause so far the conspiracy theories seem more plausable to me . Also paki is not a deurogatory term for pakistanis , what about scotts ? aussies ? yanks ? paki is an abbreviation ya goddam dumbass jeez …..
December 17th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
So…Pearl Harbor anyone? I don’t consider most of these to be a “worst moment in US history” but I would certainly consider the Attack on Pearl Harbor to be one…How about the election of Obama. That’s a pretty bad one too.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Totally agree with you scoot; pearl harbour was an absolute disgrace to humanity, that film really sucked.
December 17th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
next one will be on Iran… sheesh.. americans.. u never learn
December 21st, 2009 at 11:36 am
stogo.
Scariest post I have ever seen in the comments section here. Murdering intentionally tens of thousands of civilians in war stands as the single most horrific singular act in the history of this planet. There have been campaigns of evil that killed innocents but no one act in an instant murdered so many.
There is nothing more scary than a person who can rationalize the intentional killing of civilians by saying it is the price of war.
December 31st, 2009 at 11:22 am
At some point you need to read the Operations Plans for Operation Downfall, the invasion of Japan. Operation Downfall consisted of two parts.
Operation Olympic was the invasion of the southern islands of Japan, for the purpose of obtaining land to build air bases. it was to take place in the fall of 1945.
Operation Coronet was the knockout punch to capture the rest of the Home Islands. It was scheduled for the spring of 1946.
Please note these were going to be staged solely with American troops. The armies Dwight Eisenhower had commanded in Europe were being stripped of their seasoned divisions, which were being sent back to the States for retraining and re-equipping, and then were going to be loaded on troopships to make the assault on Japan. The Royal Navy had its grandiosely titled “Pacific Fleet” attached to the US Navy, true; but their so-called “Fleet” was about equal in numbers to one American carrier task group. And I have nowhere seen evidence that the British intended to transfer significant numbers of ground or air forces to participate in the operation.
How bad did the planners expect American casualties to be? Looking only at the land assault force, you can get an idea. The Marine Corps’ First Marine Division was to land first on one set of beaches. On D-Day, the Op Plan talks about the First Marine Division. On D Plus 1, it talks about the separate regiments that made up the division. On D Plus 2, it talks about the battalions of the division. After that, the First Marine Divison and its subsidiary units ar enot mentioned.
In other words, the operation planners were assuming that by D Plus 3, the First Marine Division would no longer exist as a fighting force. It would have taken so many casualties that the survivors would have had to be pulled out of the line to be re-equipped and reconstituted with fresh Marine troops. Do you have any idea how many casualties it takes to decimate a division to the point it can no longer fight? How does 30% killed out of 20,000 men grab you?
And that was just one division of the thirty-odd divisions the Joint Chiefs planned to commit to the operation. Not just the Army and Marine divisions that had been fighting the Japanese since 1942, but the veteran Army divisions that had won the war in Europe as well, plus the entire 8th Air Force.
Some historians say it would not have been as bad as that. But Norman Schwarzkopf, back when he was a cadet at West Point, did a paper on what would have happened if we had had to stage Operation Downfall. One bit of information he came across to indicate what some of the people not privy to the details of the operation thought was going to happen is telling.
It’s the job of the Army’s Quartermaster Corps to have supplies of anything and everything that is needed for military operations. This means they have to order what they think they are going to need in advance of the commencing of the operation.
The Quartermaster Corps ordered 750,000 Purple Heart medals, with box, medal ribbon and enamel lapel pin for wear with civilian clothing.
That’s how many servicemen killed and wounded they expected, based on the Army’s past experience with fighting in the Pacific Theater. They expected the US armed forces would take three quarters of a million casualties. I think casualties would have been worse than that. We’d have won eventually, but either at the cost of a Pyrrhic victory that resulted in hundreds of thousands of American troops killed or after a campaign that would have amounted to genocide, so thoroughly were the people of Japan brainwashed against the “Yankee Devils.”
The horrendous possibility of an American ‘lost generation’ to match that of England and France after World War I was one of the reasons Truman made the decision to drop the atomic bombs. He’d seen combat and knew what the stakes were; and like the good officer he had been, expended ordnance rather than the lives of his troops.
The “Japanese Garand” is a rarity. We should thank God it is so. Many of us would not be here on this forum if the United States had had to invade the Japanese homeland.
January 2nd, 2010 at 1:33 pm
typical shitty list, done from a left wing minority viewpoint. how about when abortion was found to be a right by 5 dumb asses on the supreme court. how about that dems are still allowed to vote. and vote themselves some one else’s paycheck. how about when slick willie and the black racist were elected president. and lets not forget the incompetent carter. how about when the media lost its way and picked a side and then chose news stories based on a political agenda. dark moments indeed for this country.
January 8th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
so pathetic when americans try to defend themselves
also “america is the gratest” is absolete bull$%^& check the statistics
January 14th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
I would have to say Pearl Harbor was should be in one of these.
January 17th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Can’t believe that you haven’t mentioned the nuclear testing on the Marshall Islands – horrific act from history that one and not one of America’s finest hours.
January 17th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Why isn’t the Federal Income Tax or Federal Reserve Act on here?
January 17th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
This list is just awful and pure liberal delusions..
A lot of the inaccuracies on this list have be pointed out in previous posts so I wont make a thesis out of this nonsense of a list..
The natives didnt understand land ownership and they were paid for their land..
Slaves were property.. How would you feel if I stole your cellphone that you paid money for?
Iraq @ #1 and not Korea or even Vietnam??
Vietnam… Yeah stop the spread of brutal Asian communism/totalitarianism, just so wrong eh?
9/11, the stock market crash and the Japanese camps are all worthy but the rest of the list is nonsense.
Oh and the dropping of little boy and fat man???
Ha…Do you have any idea how out of control the Japanese were? trust me we saved lives….
Unbelievable.
January 22nd, 2010 at 8:51 am
Nick,
Did you just compare a human being to a cell phone? Seriously? Speaking of delusions… I mean if people are equal to inanimate objects I guess we can just say you equal a toilet. Now go flush yourself troll-boy.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
I kinda wish that the USA would just withdraw from the world. Bring our troops home from Arab lands, Europe, Balkans, Africa, Asia. Quit protecting the shipping lanes and stop being the police force of the world. Then we can watch Russia re-invade all the satellite countries, North korea invade south korea, Piracy on the seas increase 10 fold. Lets watch a new arms race all over the world as countries that relied on U.S. protection start boosting their military spending in order to protect their own citizens instead of blowing all that money on social engineering. Government run healthcare in Europe will be a thing of the past as war after war breaks out all over the world killing hundreds of millions of people. A new era of death will be born. Liberalism wins.
February 1st, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Ok, let me say few words and my opinion about those bombs.
1.US had a masterpiece tactic in Pacific at the end of the war, their casualties was minimum just conquering some strategic islands from the Ocean, jumping like a flea. The supply routes of Japanese Army were cut and they were isolated. More than that, the American Army became a war machine, they were cleaning the area with a strong and powerful navy and aerial strikes so the infantry had easy job to complete; the war production, navy and aerial force of Japan were almost zero at those final days. Statistically, the japanese loss were 4/1 or bigger in every conquered island.
Japanese emperor and military junta (military leadership group) were very close to surrender, despite the fact that people fanatically loved their emperor.
The western war of russian was over, like the competition to Berlin they were ready now to another, in east front line. In my opinion that was the strongest argument for USA to use the bombs and accelerate the end of war, seemed unfair to see russians in Japan without being a real part in Pacific war operations, without fighting when Japan were the biggest naval force, without carrying the hard job of that war. “No russian foot in Japan” was the unofficial order in US administration.
Now, even without those facts, this decision was unfair. For the humanity and because is a mass ….let’s not say “murder”.. kill? I don’t know the term, the facts are speaking themselves: thousand of children and woman are dead. This is not acceptable by any argument, justify, anything. They didn’t do harm to anyone, they were not soldiers, terrorists, they were not an imminent danger.
So yes, the decision was a shame. Mathematical? You cannot read the future, even so, you cannot buy lives with children lives at any form.
My English sux, I know.
February 4th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
almost every japanese citizen had joined the citizens army making them soldiers and the inavsion would have killed 100 million japs
February 5th, 2010 at 4:18 am
Wars are fought between nations not just armies. The Japanese were the aggressors and risking American soldiers lives instead of ending the war is stupid.
February 5th, 2010 at 8:39 am
shitty list