Top 10 Worst School Massacres
Published on January 1, 2008 - 101 Comments
It is always tragic when a large number of people lose their lives, but it is worse when the deaths are of children. This is a list of ten of the worst massacres at schools.
10. Cologne school massacre 11 killed | 22 injured | Walter Seifert
June 11, 1964: Cologne school massacre. Armed with an insecticide sprayer converted into a flamethrower, a lance and a homebuilt mace, 42-year-old Walter Seifert entered the Katholische Volksschule and opened fire on the girls playing in the courtyard. He then knocked in classroom windows with his mace and fired inside. Eight children and two teachers died, twenty children and two teachers survived with very severe burns. After taking a cyanide pill, Seifert died the following day, in custody.
9.The École Polytechnique Massacre 15 killed 14 injured | Marc Lépine | the worst school massacre in Canada’s history.
December 6, 1989 : Twenty-five-year-old Marc Lepine killed 14 women and wounded a further 13 people at the École Polytechnique at the University of Montreal in the worst school massacre in Canada’s history. He then took his own life. In a letter he left behind, he indicated a hate for feminists as a motive for the shooting. It remains to this day the worst massacre in Canadian history.
8. Columbine High School Massacre 15 died | 24 injured | Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold
April 20, 1999 : Two students stormed Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado and murdered 12 other students aged 14 to 18 as well as a teacher. A further 24 people were injured before the attackers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, killed themselves.
7. University of Texas Clock Tower Shootings 18 killed | 31 injured | Charles Whitman
August 1, 1966 : University of Texas Clock Tower Shootings. After killing his wife and mother, Charles Whitman pointed a rifle from the observation deck of the University of Texas at Austin’s Tower and began shooting in a homicidal rampage that went on for 96 minutes. He killed fifteen people and wounded 31 others before being shot dead by police. David Gunby was wounded in the shooting but died 35 years later after ceasing dialysis
6. Dunblane massacre 18 killed | Thomas Hamilton | (the deadliest attack on children in United Kingdom history)
March 13, 1996 : Dunblane massacre. Unemployed former shopkeeper and Scout leader Thomas Hamilton walked into Dunblane Primary School armed with two 9 mm pistols and two .357 Magnum revolvers. He killed sixteen small children and a teacher. The subsequent police investigation revealed that Hamilton had loaded the magazines for his Browning with an alternating combination of fully metal jacketed and hollow point ammunition. This event led to the banning of handguns in the UK.
5. Erfurt massacre 17 killed | 7 injured | Robert Steinhäuser (Worst German Rampage)
April 26, 2002 : Eighteen people died when an expelled former pupil went on a shooting spree at his school in the eastern German city of Erfurt. Masked and dressed in black, the gunman walked through classrooms killing 14 teachers, two schoolgirls and one of the first policemen on the scene before taking his own life.
4. Ma’alot massacre 26 killed | 60 wounded | DFLP, PLO | Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine and Palestine Liberation Organization
May 15, 1974: The Ma’alot massacre was an attack, carried out in Ma’alot, Israel by members of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, that occurred on May 15, 1974, the 26th anniversary of Israeli independence. In this massacre members of the DFLP murdered 22 religious high school students from the city of Safed. Ma’alot, located on a plateau in the hills of the Western Galilee region of Israel, some six miles south of the Lebanese border, was a development town founded in 1957 by Jewish refugees, mainly from Morocco and other Arab countries such as Tunisia. The terrorist attack was perpetrated by three members of the Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PDFLP), al-Jabha al-Dimuqratiyya li-Tahrir Filastin.
3. Virginia Tech 32 killed, many more injured | Seung-Hui Cho
The Virginia Tech massacre was a school shooting comprising two separate attacks about two hours apart on April 16, 2007, on the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Virginia, United States. The perpetrator, Seung-Hui Cho, killed 32 people and wounded many more, before committing suicide, making it the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history.
2. Bath School disaster 45 died | 58 injured | Andrew Kehoe
May 18, 1927 : In the deadliest mass school murder in United States history, former school board member Andrew Kehoe set off three bombs in Bath Township, Michigan killing 45 people and wounding 58. Kehoe killed himself and the superintendent by blowing up his own vehicle.
1. Beslan school hostage crisis At least 386 dead, including 31 hostage takers | Over 700 injured | Shamil Basayev’s Riyadus Salihiin group
1 September 2004: A group of pro-Chechen armed rebels took more than 1,200 school children and adults hostage on September 1, 2004, at School Number One (SNO) in the town of Beslan, North Ossetia. On the third day of the standoff, gunfire broke out between the hostage-takers and Russian security forces.
Addendum: Red Lake High School massacre 10 killed | 12 injured | Jeff Weise
March 21, 2005 : At Red Lake Senior High School in Minnesota, 16-year-old student Jeff Weise opened fire, killing five fellow students, a teacher and a security guard. Prior to the rampage, he had shot his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend. It later became apparent that Weise had visited neo-Nazi Web sites prior to the shooting.
Contributor: Samehrocks
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1. Yogi Barrister - January 1st, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Wow! What a cheery way to start the new year.
2. Nick - January 1st, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Oh my god,such Insanity,No one deserves this.
3. NSEW - January 1st, 2008 at 5:09 pm
what about virginia tech?
4. mrbizmark - January 1st, 2008 at 5:12 pm
yeah VT was 30 killed i think, should be number 3.
5. killerAngels - January 1st, 2008 at 5:24 pm
yeah, definitely interesting to not see virginia tech on the list.
i think it’s interesting to see britian’s strong reaction after a school shooting, compared to what happens in the united states. after events like virginia tech and columbine the u.s gov’t has done absolutely nothing concerning handguns and guns in general. i will say though, that many steps have been taken to make schools safer environments.
6. Nelia - January 1st, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Wow, this is a dark one. So sad… reminds me of those Amish school children who were killed last year. That was a very tragic one, especially seeing how good the parents and community was to the shooter’s family. They worked really hard to find a positive in a terrible situation and went out of their way to be kind to the family. Though when you think about it, the families of these people may need comfort the most. God knows you would rather have someone you love shot in this situation, then have someone you love be the shooter, at least I think so. Ugh, who goes after kids? Don’t understand it.
7. Marc - January 1st, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Killer Angels… If you really think handgun bans are so good (as in Britain and Wash DC) please explain to me why they continue to have one of the highest rates of gun related crime. The shooting in Dunblane illustrates what happens when politicians make a knee-jerk reaction to a tragic situation and end up making a bad situation worse. When will people learn that you cannot legislate against mentally handicapped people (as most on this list clearly are)…To use on often used phrase: when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. You can choose to not own a gun…as for myself, I’ll sleep peacefully knowing that if someone breaks into my house, I’m not gonna lose my family due to a lack of firepower.
8. sarahenity - January 1st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
happy new year everyone…
good list though.
9. jbjr - January 1st, 2008 at 6:05 pm
VA Tech. One of the biggest stories of the year in the states. #10 happened on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota. I can’t remember off hand but the boy aquired his guns from his grandfathers home in which he lived. The grandfather was a former police officer.
10. Hannah! - January 1st, 2008 at 6:40 pm
The thing about banning guns though is that if someone wants to shoot and kill people that bad, they will find a way to acquire guns and whatever else they may need.
They’re already breaking one law by killing people, what’s another one?
Good list, though! =)
11. Mom424 - January 1st, 2008 at 6:45 pm
marc, i assume you are referring to DC only, Britain has a very low incidence of gun related crime. Canada (although this is changing in large cities in close proximity to the US) also has very low violent crime levels. I personally can’t think of a civilized country with strict gun control laws that has as a violent crime rate even approaching the good ol’ USA with its liberal gun laws.
12. SubliminalDeath666 - January 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm
I agree VA Tech should’ve been there, 30 something students died.
13. Mavoonie - January 1st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
yeah i was wondering when virginia tech would show up, but to my surprise it wasnt on there… i figured it would be atleast in the top 5 or something
14. cheese - January 1st, 2008 at 8:17 pm
totally agree with you Hannah!.
people who want to commit these kinds of acts will find weapons one way or another.
15. teacherman - January 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Virginia Tech has to be included as wel las the Amsih shootings. I am assuming the list was generated by number of fatalities, but the Amish shooting was extremely tragic. As a Pennsylvanian, this was very tragic due the relative peaceful and humble nature of the Amish.
16. Yarr - January 1st, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Mom424- The UK still has a high violent crime rate, they (the regular folks) just use knives and swords instead. The mob and gangs still get and use guns if they want to.
17. downhighway61 - January 1st, 2008 at 8:40 pm
hi everyone, i just registered with the site, like half a second ago. my husband and i have been looking at it for about a week and we are addicted.
anyway….
i agree with the people saying that if you outlaw guns, only criminal will have them. how many people on this list obtained their weapons legally? i doubt very many of them.
18. Arkz_Archduke_of_Geeks - January 1st, 2008 at 8:43 pm
what no mention of virgina tech? its considered the deadlisit school shooting in us history, the gun man sueng-hui cho killed 32 people
19. 20Fan20 - January 1st, 2008 at 9:03 pm
WOW I was blown away by how diverse this list was. It seems no country is immune to crazy people.
As far as banning guns go… You can’t blame high violent crime rates on gun laws. Too many factors go into the crime rates.
First, not all violent crimes you are refering to have guns involved. Rape is a violent crime even when no gun is used.
Second cultural diversity and socio-economic factors also play a huge role. In the US we have significant gang related problems. These problems jack up our crime rates. These gangs are not a product of gun access and have shown that a lack of guns does not deter them. A significant amount of jail house killings are gang related and use no guns. They stem from social problems.
We, in the US at least, continue to see areas like Washington DC have some of the highest violent crime rates dispite the hang gun bans. You see ares like Idaho and Utah with virtually no gun control laws have very low violent crime rates. Urban areas in the US continue to have the highest crime rates. If a lack of gun control leads directly to higher crime why is there such a disproportion of high crime in urban areas? I think it is because there are a whole slew of “causes” to violent crime.
Personally speaking, I had my truck broken into when I was younger. They stole a stereo system I worked hard for. They did this by using a screw driver to jimmy open a window. To this day I blame and hold them accountable for thier actions and not access to a screw driver.
Oh yeah, Happy New Year…I think!
20. YourMom - January 1st, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Did anyone else notice alot of these happened around springish? (April, May, March, June months)? 7/10
Somehow I find it weird USA isnt #1.
21. Andie_Girl9 - January 1st, 2008 at 9:30 pm
I’m surprised my old school didn’t make the list, we all died of boredom during a seminar about learning how to approach your counselor for college applications.
That was bad. But true.
-Andrea Carlena Beauman
22. 20Fan20 - January 1st, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Most suicides occur during the spring. It is a time when most people are happy that winter is over, new growth everywhere etc etc. Yet, when you are depressed it is the worst because this “happy effect” is not happening to you.
23. 20Fan20 - January 1st, 2008 at 9:53 pm
YourMom: Soory I forgot to mention, nice oberservation I did not pick up on that!
I think the reason we all think the US should be on this list is because these events seem to happen to us more. That may be true but population size may effect that as well. I have not seen any reports of school shootings on a per capita basis.
24. jesse - January 1st, 2008 at 10:16 pm
wow cant believe VT not on there
25. sdggrant - January 1st, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Killerangel, The US constitution explicitly states that we have the right to bear arms. Im not quite sure if the UK has something similar in their government, but thats why handguns havent been banned out right in the US. It takes ALOT to change the constitution and I doubt anything shot of a civil uprising would lead the US to ban firearms. I dont think it would help that much though, people who want to kill people will find ways, just look at the bombings and the guy who made a damned homemade flamethrower. Anyways most crimes involving firearms are committed by people who own those guns illegally. I personally only own a shotgun but I have been thinking about purchasing a handgun sometime next year.
26. R - January 1st, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Good list, but I think that the Virginia Tech massacre and the May 4th shootings at Kent State University should definitely be included.
27. jfrater - January 2nd, 2008 at 12:15 am
Hi all - thanks for the comments - I have modified the list to include the Virginia Tech shootings which was left off. It is in place number 3. the item lost by including it is now included as an addendum.
R: Kent State is not included because the total death count was 4.
28. samhrocks - January 2nd, 2008 at 12:35 am
it seems that I became known for my horrifying Lists LOL they’re all about Suicides, Massacres and deaths!! well, this is not funny! probably, the next list is not so much pleasant too!
My Apologies to everyone, when I made this list I was a little in a hurry, there’s so many rampages that occurred in the US (more than 30,000 in US, more than 500 in Canada and about 100 in UK) I wanted the ones that took place in Schools, whether they’re Primary, Secondary, or College and university schools! everyone is mentioning that I should have included Virginia Tech Massacre, which is absolutely making sense ’cause in this massacre 33 people died and 23 injured.
(I’ll remove the page I made as soon as Jamie updates the list here)
but right after I sent the list to the site administrator, I found out that I didn’t include that one, but when I didn’t get any response from ‘em, I thought they’re not going to publish it, anyway! I wanted to send a correction but maybe it’s too late… in my corrected list: Virginia Tech Massacre got the third place.
I made a page for the updated list and uploaded it to some server so everyone can check it out… it’s going to be great if Jamie updated the list
HAPPY NEW YEAR
29. samhrocks - January 2nd, 2008 at 12:37 am
Oh, we did that at the same time! well, it’s all good
30. Dev - January 2nd, 2008 at 3:51 am
Their was that finnish kid that just killed 9 I think a few weeks ago also….nasty stuff….leave it to islamic terrorists to have the number 1 kill rate in Belsen…just lovely (sarcasm off)
31. kiwiboi - January 2nd, 2008 at 4:12 am
Dev - I think you mean “Beslan”.
Belsen is a whole ‘nother story…
And while Islamic separatism would seem, according to some, to have been a secondary motive, I think that the issue of Chechnyan independence was the more plausible and explicit motivation for this outrage.
32. Ian - January 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 am
“Most suicides occur during the spring.”
20Fan20 - I have to disagree - suicides peak around Christmas I believe, due to the amplification of loneliness and assumption of general happiness.
And Dev, I think you’re confusing Belsen with Beslan, where a large portion of the people were killed by the Russian forces attacking the Chechen nationalists.
33. ihavelegs - January 2nd, 2008 at 6:03 am
The ability and availabilty of weapons within the UK to be accessed is much exagerrated by the press, clearly because it makes such ‘good’ news. The reality however is that for an average teenager to lay hands on a functional weapon, and more importantly ammunition - is something else.
The majority of gun crime in the uk is conducted with shared weapons within gang or organised crime syndicates… To obtain any sort of ‘real’ (i.e. none reworked starting pistol/blank firearm) handgun or even shot gun is pratically impossible, and the prices on the street reflect this, we are talking in excess of £1500 ($3000US), not the sum the average teenager will have to their disposal - obviously also the contacts to arrange such a transaction.
With regards to the US constitution ‘the right to bear arms’ this harks back to the civil war and isnt exactly relevant to todays society. I propose a simple solution, everone can bear arms, just make ammunition prohibitavly expenssive - $2000 a round or something… Once the illegal stocks have been depleted then people really will think twice about firing.
I think that the person that mention that thier family is safe whilst they maintain a functional weapon within the home is slightly deluded. US stastistics show that the vast majority of accidents & murders are commited within the family environment with family owned weapons… Not to add the fact that if someone is stealing my property the last thing I want to do to a derranged person is to piss them off more. Belongings are just that they can be replaced - family memebers can’t (although I wish some of mine could be returned to the shop :P)
Just my two pennies.
34. Mom424 - January 2nd, 2008 at 6:31 am
Since reading 20fan20’s (and others) comments i have done some further research and i stand by my comment. I agree with ihavelegs and the numbers back it up. All the highest murder rates in the world occur in the poorest countries, with one notable exception, yup the USA. I don’t believe that the people in Canada/US are much different, we’re not inherently less violent, the difference is the availability of weapons. I lose it and punch you in the face, you don’t die. Not so true if I shoot you when I lose it. And the constitution states the militia has the right to bear arms; makes perfect sense in context, their civil defense force required arms, and the ability to kick them redcoats back to England.
These stats/facts don’t change the fact that mass/spree killers will find a way to get their weapons of choice. The thing in common with almost all these killers is a feeling of victimization; sometimes true, often not.
Great list by the way.
35. evan - January 2nd, 2008 at 7:07 am
The Supreme Court here in the US has ruled and reaffirmed that the second amendment is indeed for private firearm ownership, not a reference to a national guard, or similar group.
Here in the state of Michigan, our state constitution specifically states the right of its citizens to be allowed to privately own firearms for the sake of hunting, sport, and self-defense.
The .gov has tried several things to ban/restrict gun ownership, all of them failures, even admitted as so by the people who bushed for the legislation, like the Assault Weapons Ban.
36. Emily - January 2nd, 2008 at 7:59 am
hm
makes me want to homeschool my kid when he gets old enough!
37. DiscHuker - January 2nd, 2008 at 8:40 am
wow. i knew about the one at belsan but most of these, outside of america, i have never heard about. i had no idea this was a worldwide problem. how sad.
don’t these sorts of things make you proud to be human?
i work with high school students. in the summer of 99 i met a girl who was in the library at columbine when the shooting took place. talking to her was very surreal. she came face to face with death as a 16 year old. in a way that, hopefully, none of us ever will have to.
let’s face it, humanity will find a way to kill one another, guns be damned.
i long for a better day. Christ come.
38. Mikerodz - January 2nd, 2008 at 9:19 am
Banning guns seems not to be a sure deterent to killings and massacre. There are countries where cost of guns are prohivitive to their means yet they kill people by the hundreds of thousands, using Machetes.
39. evan - January 2nd, 2008 at 9:53 am
politics aside, im still amazed at the VT shootings. How one guy armed with just a 9mm pistol and a .22 cal pistol was able to kill so many.
40. Kelsi - January 2nd, 2008 at 9:59 am
Interesting list. I only caught it post-VT (which, by the way, freaked me out every time I saw briefly on the news ‘VT shootings’ and I thought Vermont, which is geographically very close to me) I actualy hadn’t heard of a lot of these! Glad that I’m now aware.
41. Csimmons - January 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
Wow. I was hoping for a funny list to start off the new year.
42. downhighway61 - January 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am
ihavelegs:
“I propose a simple solution, everone can bear arms, just make ammunition prohibitavly expenssive - $2000 a round or something…”
lots of people already make their own ammo.
43. evan - January 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 am
plus i believe chris rock came up with that solution years ago, pretty funny stand up bit
44. Ben Heitzman - January 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Evan: He killed so many because he knew what he wanted and how to get it. He came up with a plan and executed very well.
45. Shane S. - January 2nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Why would the Kent State shootings even be considered for this list? Everyone on this list who comitted such crimes had motive and intent to kill, and probably weren’t in a good state of mind. Kent State was an absolutely horrible event, but I severly doubt that the National Guardsmen woke up that morning and planned on shooting a bunch of protesters in the same manner and mindframe that the killers on this list did.
46. kiwiboi - January 2nd, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Shane - I don’t think that “motive” or being not being in a “good state of mind” are criteria for being included on this list. Kent State could have been a viable inclusion on the grounds that it involved US soldiers killing unarmed US civilians on US soil…
Having said this, non-Americans might not share the same degree of moral outrage about Kent State as Americans do. Personally, I wouldn’t have included it, but could have understood it if the list author had.
47. rangerjoe8999 - January 2nd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
@mom424 “And the constitution states the militia has the right to bear arms.” No the 2nd amendment says, “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” You also need to look at the relevant definition of militia; from the Militia Act of 1792, which states in part, “That EACH AND EVERY free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years”.
48. Hitesh - January 2nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
That’s what you get when you pick on the little guy.
49. FierceGrace - January 2nd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
All these shootings are terrible and it’s sad to see that people have to resort not just to firearms but violence in the general to solve their problems. I have always liked the saying that “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people,” we as a society need to start taking care of those who are ill mentally and need support. Sad thing is though, that even if some of these people had a mental illness, since there is such a stigma against it society tends to turn these people away. Having a mental illness is not like cancer where people sympathize with you, people are scared of them and turn their backs on the unknown and since we can’t see it most of us could care less about those with depression, schizophrenia, bi-polar ect. Bottom line educated yourself on these diseases and maybe you can understand why some of these people resorted to this.
AS for the guy who said that he’ll sleep peacfully because he has a gun to keep his family safe… Shame on you, I would not want one of those things in my home around my kids. Not the kind of environment I want my kids to be raised in.
50. dick shoes - January 2nd, 2008 at 4:01 pm
“I propose a simple solution, everone can bear arms, just make ammunition prohibitavly expenssive - $2000 a round or something…”
i propose that you dont know anything about economics. cause id make millions selling ammunition if that happend.
51. downhighway61 - January 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
my kid is in a home with guns, and he’s not in a bad environment. he can’t get to them. we don’t wave them around like “hey, look at me, i’m a gun”. i don’t think it’s shameful to own a gun, and have children.
but yeah, mental illness has a stigma around it, and people should have access to compassionate people, and help available to them. i agree with that.
52. Mom424 - January 2nd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
i think rangerjoe8999 that you made my point for me,,,in 1792, when a well armed civil defense force was required. wouldn’t have done to well to rely on the British for that, specially when you’re trying to get rid of them…again, in 1792
i’m sorry but the argument does not fly today, you want every male american between 18 and 45 to be armed? Armageddon here we come.
53. kiwiboi - January 2nd, 2008 at 4:27 pm
dick - and I propose that you might want to read up on economics as it applies in the real world. If ammunition was priced at $2,000 a round (as in FierceGrace’s example), what do you think makes up the price ? It certainly is not the manufacturing cost, whether it is you or a commercial munitions factory making the ammunition. The difference is a tax of some description, or a legal barrier to entry into that market.
And guess what governments think of tax-evaders and/or unlicensed producers of prohibited/restricted goods ? Enough to apply very heavy prison sentences - which in the real world has always proven to be an effective deterrent
Check out the liquor and tobacco industries, for example…
54. kiwiboi - January 2nd, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Mom424 “i’m sorry but the argument does not fly today, you want every male american between 18 and 45 to be armed? Armageddon here we come.”
Mom424, you might want to research the example of Switzerland, where a very significant proportion of males 20 upwards do, in fact, maintain military-grade firearms - and with the Swiss government’s active encouragement. Yet firearms crimes are relatively rare in Switzerland.
I’m not saying you are wrong about your “armegeddon” comment, but I think that there is more to this issue than merely owning a firearm.
55. Drewbacca - January 2nd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
The thing about banning guns is that though it seems like it wouldn’t help, as hannah said, but the truth is countries with gun bans have much, much lower gun crime rates.
56. Blogball - January 2nd, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Thanks for this very interesting list.
We sometimes forget that this stuff happens in other places besides the US.
The list prompted to me to search around and I came upon this site of a few more US school shootings that were not on the list.
http://www.time.com/time/natio.....04,00.html
I’m sure I must have heard about all of these but it seems like these kinds of headlines stay with you until the next one that is even worse.
57. Mom424 - January 2nd, 2008 at 7:05 pm
I live in a rural area, lots of folks have rifles & shotguns. In fact my niece is a Black Powder national junior champion, so I don’t have a problem with guns, just unrestricted and easy access to handguns. Sorry I wasn’t clear about that. Having your military rifle at home, because in Switzerland I’m pretty sure everyone gets a turn in their civil defense force, is not the same as having a .45 under the dash and a .22 in the night stand.
58. downhighway61 - January 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 am
here are some numbers to ponder. in my eyes, they only show that gun laws may not have as much of an effect as we think. NH’s rate is extremely low, while NV’s is much higher. my numbers come from disastercenter.com and my knowledge of CCW permits comes from personal experiance. all of the numbers are per 100,000 people.
crime rates for the state of nevada, which allows people to own handguns and obtain concealed carry permits: (and they allow open carry also)
year:2006 population:2,495,529 index:4,695.6 violent:606.8 propety:4,088.8 murder:9.0 rape:43.2
crime rates for the state of new hampshire, which also allows handguns and grants concealed carry permits. interestingly, you do not have to be a NH resident, nor even go to the state of NH to obtain you conceal carry permit. a permit from certain states is all it takes.
year:2006 population: 1,314,895 index:2,012.8 violent:138.7 property:1,874.1 murder:1.0 rape:26.2
New York, where obtain a CC permit is damn near impossible unless you can prove you need it:
year:2006 population:19,306,183 index:2,487.6 violent:434.9 property:2,052.7 murder:4.8 rape:16.4
59. downhighway61 - January 3rd, 2008 at 12:01 am
sorry it’s a little messy.
60. kiwiboi - January 3rd, 2008 at 12:39 am
Mom424 - regarding “having a .45 under the dash and a .22 in the night stand” - there are almost as many handguns in the public domain in Switzerland as there are rifles. The point I am making is that the availability of weapons is not necessarily the only factor in all of this. I wonder why, for example, that those nations experiencing the highest firearm-related crime are 3rd-world nations…with the notable exception of the USA; and it cannot merely be explained by the availability of weapons if Switzerland is used as a comparison.
61. kiwiboi - January 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 am
mom424 - “so I don’t have a problem with guns, just unrestricted and easy access to handguns”.
Notwithstanding my comments, above, I agree with you on this. At some point common-sense has to kick in.
62. Vucko - January 3rd, 2008 at 1:39 am
Chechen are rebels and Palestinians are terrorists. Wery good, you are democrats you say. That mean when someone kills Russians he is fredom fighter and fhen he kill Israelis he is terrorist
63. kiwiboi - January 3rd, 2008 at 2:07 am
Vucko - whilst I can appreciate that there is some truth in your comment, I think that in both cases you refer to, the perpetrators were not Boy Scouts on a day’s outing.
Forgetting the pro-West slant that is afforded the reporting of geo-political events, I think that we can all agree that the taking of the lives of children in the furtherance of a political or personal agenda is nothing less than extreme, contemptible cowardice - no matter who is perpetrating it and irrespective of how the western media chooses to present it.
64. samhrocks - January 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 am
Vucko: some people have a double-standard way of thinking. I’m not defending the act but the Palestinians are not the violators all the time! Israel had killed at least one of every Palestinian family! and right after Ma’alot massacre Israeli forces had performed retaliatory operations against Palestinians and killed so many innocent people (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/16/newsid_2512000/2512399.stm ).
In April 8, 1970 “Israeli” planes bombed the “Bahr el Baqar” school in Sharkia province, 80 miles north of Cairo, Egypt, killing 46 school children. check out this here: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahr_el_Bakar )
I don’t know why I didn’t add this to the list!! Palestinians held Israeli hostages in many occasions asking the Israeli government to release the Palestinians who they imprison randomly and without apparent reason!
65. Mom424 - January 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am
kiwiboi; I am very much aware that the high crime rates in the USA cannot be blamed entirely on gun ownership. If you note all the high gun ownership states with little or no crime are in rural areas. Honestly if you take the major cities out of the loop you will find the USA crime rates plummet. Poverty and hoplessness are the real culprits. The big cities in the USA are much like the 3rd world…read about the level of pin worms/parasites in the poor parts of the US,, horrifying. SO no quick fixes,,,I would start by banning handguns, and instituting better social programs,,,my lord how about universal health care? and an education system that is not based on the taxes in that area? Look at the difference in the schools say between Chicago’s inner-city schools and Berverly Hills’ public schools. Where I live, the schools get the exact same amount per pupil, and it doesn’t matter if the schools’ downtown or in the suburbs.
66. mooster - January 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Eric and Dylan must be heartbroken…
67. Brian Moo - January 3rd, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Both 2 nd 3 say they are the deadliest united states shootings
68. kiwiboi - January 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Brian - no.
#3 : “deadliest school shooting”
#2 : “deadliest mass school murder”
69. Jorgegrl - January 5th, 2008 at 11:15 am
I’m surprised that as a bonus you did not include the Amish school shooting from last year where (if I remember correctly) a Janitor or someone came in and killed a bunch of Amish school children in (i think) PA
70. eric n. - January 5th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
mainly comprised of shootings…i guess the criterion was for number of deaths. if the concept of worst massacre includes the factor of sheer hideousness one should possibly include the japanese nut who knifed several kindergarten students to death in osaka japan in 2002.
71. Shayna - January 6th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
More guns=less crime, [http://www.junkscience.com/news2/moreguns.htm]
Also, sorry Ian, just read a few days ago that indeed the suicide rate is lowest around the Christmas holidays and highest in the springtime. [http://www.upmc.com/HealthManagement/ManagingYourHealth/PersonalHealth/Women/?chunkiid=156980]
72. Ashley - January 7th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Number 10 says 2 “ijured” instead of “injured”
… Unless its some word that i’m supposed to know but don’t?
73. dick shoes - January 7th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
“And guess what governments think of tax-evaders and/or unlicensed producers of prohibited/restricted goods ? Enough to apply very heavy prison sentences - which in the real world has always proven to be an effective deterrent
Check out the liquor and tobacco industries, for example”
yea i guess you are right. drugs are not readily available you nit wit. verrrrry effect deterrent. im guessing you are one of the few who think the war on drugs is working?
74. Cyn - January 7th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Ashley - oops! thanks. now corrected.
75. evan - January 8th, 2008 at 6:26 am
They just released new info on Michigan; it has been 6 years since we changed to a “shall issue” stance on concealed weapons permits. That means unlike before where you needed to go before a “review” board and state a case to get a concealed weapons permit and hope to be approved, now under the shall issue law, anyone who applies for a permit (CCW) and goes through the necessary background checks, paper work, and certified training MUST be approved unless they aren’t legally able to have a firearm (ie mental illness, felon, etc…)
Well, 6 years ago, when this change was up for debate, anti-gun people, democrats in general, and certain political figure heads like Gov Granholm and the political heads of law enforcement (not the regular street cops mind you) were saying that gun related crime would sky rocket, that road rage shootings would occur on a daily basis, that Michigan would turn into the wild wild west.
Well, here we are 6 years later and 6 times the people here in Michigan now legally carry a concealed firearm and not only has gun related crime not sky rocketed, it has gone down, considerably. Even the people against it at the time, specifically Granholm, have admitted they were wrong about it. That it has had no negative effect on gun related crime.
To me at the time, this was a no brainer. A person considering or planning a crime would not bother to go through the whole process of background checks, finger printing, training and paper work to legally carry a firearm to go commit a crime; they would just do it anyways. The only people who would go through all that is the responsible law abiding citizen, who is more likely then to prevent crime then to commit it.
Fun fact, 1 in 65 people now legally carry in Michigan
76. Bonnie_ - January 8th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Hi all. Fascinating list. My college-age son had to write an essay on school shootings last year and we sure could have used this list.
In America we have the right to bear arms, but there are certain places that are “gun free zones.” That’s why you see shootings in schools and malls, and why serial killers stalk National parks. Go where the prey is unarmed and you have a better chance of achieving your sick goal.
I carry a gun. Always. The gun is the ultimate equalizer, putting the power of the brain over the brute. I am a little female with small children and I can kill anyone who tries to hurt me or my babies.
Oh, and I don’t pay attention to the gun-free zones, either. If I’m in one, I’m armed. I know the law says I can’t, but the Constitution says I can. The laws once said my ancestors were to turn in all escaped slaves, too, and they didn’t pay attention to that law, either.
77. evan - January 8th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Id be careful about carry in those zones Bonnie, also I would change the mindset from “I can kill anyone who tries to hurt me or my babies.” to “I have the ability to defend me or my babies if the need arises”
It may seem like only different wording, but the mental mindset is different also. Armed confrontation should be avoided if other options are there. If simply giving the mugger or whatever the purse, or more simply, leaving a bad situation would end the confrontation, that should be done first. Armed resistance should be enacted only when other options aren’t available.
When an armed confrontation does occur, there’s a good chance someone will end up dead or seriously wounded, and no matter how “good” you are with your firearm, there is a chance it will be you. money, possessions, etc, can be replaced, you can’t be.
78. Blogball - January 8th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Evan I’m kind of on the fence with the whole gun control issue. Your comment has given me new food for thought. “Thanks” I also heard that the strict gun laws recently established in DC has not helped.
79. evan - January 8th, 2008 at 9:59 am
thanks blogball, here is the link to the article if you want to read it…
http://www.lansingstatejournal...../801070325
80. evan - January 8th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Thanks Blogball, here’s a the url to the article about the CCW change…
http://www.lansingstatejournal...../801070325
tried to post it as a link but it didnt seem to work.
81. Bonnie_ - January 8th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Evan, your attitude is what gets many, many women raped and killed in this country. Exactly what does a mugger want with you? Your purse, a rape, your life? Does a mugger have a mugger i.d. card that says “Don’t worry, I’m harmless, I just want your money.”
Of course not. A person who threatens me is a potential killer, and I have been trained to act accordingly. (Shooting courses — I’ve taken two.) Any training course will teach you that if you fire your gun it is to kill your attacker. If you draw your gun it is with the understanding that you carry an extremely deadly weapon. No one who knows guns is casual about them.
Luckily I’ve only been in one situation where I had to draw my gun. I was sideswiped on a deserted Colorado mountain road and when I got out of my truck, the man who got out of his said “Now you’re going to do exactly as I say.” Then he saw my handgun and his eyes got very wide and he apologized for the damage to my car while backing away. (Did he find some other girl? I wonder at night, sometimes. Did he rape and murder someone else?)
This is why women should carry guns. And why my attitude is not one of supine victimhood. And why I carry in “gun free” zones. And, Evan, I’m very careful. I hold the pistol with both hands, clear my field of fire, and squeeeeeeeze gently. I’m all about careful.
82. evan - January 8th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
really? you class said to draw you weapon and kill someone if other options like just leaving are open? wow what classes were those???
“Any training course will teach you that if you fire your gun it is to kill your attacker.”
no shit, i didnt say shoot to wound, i said avoid the situation in the first place if possible…
83. devilishgrin66 - February 15th, 2008 at 1:17 am
There was another one at Northern Illinois University yesterday. I think 6 dead. And tomorrow there will be a shitload of groups on facebook of students who ’support’ Northern Illinois. People are going to whine about the ’security’ of our schools when the point is this can happen anywhere, it just always seems to happen at schools.
84. melow - February 15th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
FUCK.
85. JwJwBean - February 15th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
There were other school shootings just this past week.
http://www.nysun.com/article/71194 - Teenager Wounded in Calif. School Shooting
2 in Tennesee - http://www.commercialappeal.co.....-lockdown/
I am still looking for info on the Ohio one.
Very sad.
86. JwJwBean - February 15th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Here is a breakdown of all 5 in the last week.
http://www.news.com.au/heralds.....61,00.html
87. Destiny Froste - February 15th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
“There was another one at Northern Illinois University yesterday. I think 6 dead.”
I am a student at NIU, it was indeed six dead, five killed plus the shooter himself.
Yes, there are tons of facebook groups about it, but no one is complaining about school security. We are actually quite pleased with how quickly campus police showed up and we realize that there is not much that could have been done to stop this. We are still in the dark about why this happened.
88. doz - February 21st, 2008 at 8:53 am
i find it beyond despicable that the chechen rebels used the hostage of a school to try and prove their point and make them noticed. the 1st of september is a really important day in russia and its surroundings. it’s the first day of school, and so most of the child’s family comes with him/her to the school, with gifts for the teachers. since 2004 this day, which was a joyous event for russians, has never been the same because of this tragedy.
i think some people expected the USA to be at the top of the list because its the most talked about in the news. the beslan tragedy was not mentioned as much in the western world, and some of my friends didn’t even know that it happened and what it was.
89. Kalashnikov - March 4th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Ban handguns unban automatic rifles !
90. M.d - March 7th, 2008 at 11:58 am
WOW…
I CANT BELIVE THIS..
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE SERIOSLY..
I COULDNT BE ABLE TO KILL ANYONE..
THATS CRAZY
91. X - March 23rd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
The Only Reason They Did What They Did is because no one ever listened to what they had to say or ever talked to them!
92. cody - April 2nd, 2008 at 5:11 pm
i live in colorado, near littleton, and i knew some victoms of colombine. i think it should be higher because this was the shooting that made the most impact because these were highschoolers, and if the actual plan had gon through, over 700 would have died.
93. JwJwBean - April 2nd, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Cody: Columbine had the most impact to you because you were close to it. The list is ordered by number of people killed, not number potentially killed. I too live in Colorado. I graduated from Columbine. I lost a neighbor. I feel it is right where it needs to be. All of these other cases had major impacts on their areas too. Number 6 led to the banning of handguns in the UK. Pretty major impact.
94. PXNDX - April 10th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
R.I.P. Dylan and Eric to me they are still number one in school massacres until “someone”…
95. Renae - May 5th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
How could anyone do such a thing to inocent people
96. FJ - May 28th, 2008 at 2:29 am
Indeed Marc, Mom424, is correct. Here in Britain gun crime is not a massive problem. Knife crime, however, is becoming a massive issue. The problem with handguns is they are perfect weapons for one or two people to perform a massacre.
I think ‘knee-jerk’ reaction is the wrong way to describe the banning of guns after children are killed.
97. R - June 8th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
The scariest part of this whole list was the V.Y. picture…
Gave me chills, man…
98. never again - June 10th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
these are all very bad. but since i attended columbine high, i will always think of it as the worst. especially being one of the ones hurt and my best friend being one of the ones killed. that completely turned my life around and gave me so much hate in people. but ive gotten better. i pray for everyone who has gone through what i went through.
99. supporter - June 10th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
most of these situations on high schools happen because no one listens to the people crying out for help. bullying has got so bad that people are actually willing to do these horrible things as a cry for help and attention. so i dont think we should just blame the killers, but also blame the environment and the shitty people they were around. next time when you see an outcast in your school..why not befriend them? i just transferred to a new high school and didnt care about other people until my mother opened my eyes and taught me better, i befriended this lonely boy at our school who was good looking but was always quite and alone. we are best friends now, turns out before i met him and changed his look on life and got him friends, he was planning on commiting suicide and placing a bomb in the school. thats why im not so much concerned only about the killers, but the social statuses of the school as well. the world needs to change..before we all end up dead by each other.
100. Trevski - June 12th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
I was in St Louis and Orlando recently (from Australia). Handguns are the tool used but not the problem itself. These school murders are tragic but they are just a drop in the ocean of handgun related murders/crimes. The USA needs to look at it’s handling of the lower economic community if it wants to reduce crime. How many people are killed by firearms that the act was not predetermined??? I’d guess a hell of a lot. To simply ban Hand guns would reduce certain deaths but certainly not all. But it still is a start… Criminals will always be criminals and SOME will be able to get firearms. HOWEVER with less firearms in the general community for them to steal, there will be less for them to easily get there hands on.
101. Kirstin2008 - July 1st, 2008 at 8:57 pm
I graduated from Bath High school this year and all my years attending Bath the anniversary of the bombing is mourned every year on May 27th. To me it will always top any of these tragic events that have taken place. Including columbine massacre although very sad and tragic I believe the order in which these massacres are placed is relevant. Bath was tragic because it was the school it was not an attack on one particular school such as the High school but an attack an the towns school Bath is currently a tiny town where everybody knows everybody back then I can imagine it was even more close knit. To me the Bath bombing will always be the worst thing that could have happened in a town but that’s because this is where I grew up.