Top 10 Organized Religions and their Core Beliefs
Published on July 31, 2007 - 95 Comments
This list is Sourced from the Encylopaedia Britannica, Wikipedia, Beliefnet, and Adherents.com (a collection of 43,870 adherent statistics and religious geography citations). The list is based on number of members. For a complete list (which also includes atheism and agnosticism, see the Wikipedia article or the Encylopaedia Britannica chart).
1. Christianity [Abrahamic, 27 AD] 2.1 billion adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Christianity is a monotheistic religion which is based on the teachings of the Old Testament and Jesus of Nazareth. Christians believe that Jesus, as the Son of God is part of the Trinity (God as three persons in one), the others being God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Christians believe that Christianity fulfils Judaism. Most Christians believe that the death and resurrection of Jesus to be the cornerstone of their faith. Protestant ofshoots of Christianity believe that salvation comes from the belief in God alone, whereas Catholic and Orthodox Christians belief that faith, combined with good works is required for salvation.
The Christian scriptures are called the Bible - comprising two books, the Old Testament (based on the Septuagint) and the New Testament. Protestants and Catholics have the same books in the New Testament, but Martin Luther removed 7 books from the Old Testament during the Protestant reformation, considering them to be apocryphal. He also removed four books from the New Testament but was later persuaded to put them back - they were Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation.
Christians believe in Sacraments (Catholics and Orthodox and some Anglicans believe in 7: Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Communion, Confession, Last Rites, Holy Orders, and Matrimony; some Protestants (following Martin Luther) believe in the sacramental nature of Baptism and Holy Communion, while others reject outright the concept of sacramental theology.
Christianity is generally broken into three branches: Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. Catholicism is the largest with over 1 billion adherents. The Orthodox and Catholic Churches split in the 11th century in an event called the Great Schism. Protestantism split from Roman Catholicism in in the 16th century in an event called the Protestant Reformation.
2. Islam [Abrahamic, 610 AD] 1.3 billion adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Islam is a monotheistic religion originating with the teachings of Muhammad, a 7th-century Arab religious and political figure. Muslims believe that God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad, God’s final prophet, and regard the Qur’an and the Sunnah (the words and deeds of Muhammad) as the fundamental sources of Islam. They do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion, but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets. Islamic tradition holds that Judaism and Christianity distorted the messages of these prophets over time either in interpretation, in text, or both.
Almost all Muslims belong to one of two major denominations, the Sunni and Shi’a. The schism developed in the late 7th century following disagreements over the religious and political leadership of the Muslim community. Roughly 85 percent of Muslims are Sunni and 15 percent are Shi’a. Muslims consider the Qur’an to be the literal word of God; it is the central religious text of Islam. Muslims believe that the verses of the Qur’an were revealed to Muhammad by God through the angel Gabriel on many occasions between the years 610 and his death on July 6, 632.
Islam considers itself to be the supreme religion and therefore Muslims must not place themselves in a position inferior to that of the followers of other religions. Pursuant to this principle, Muslim women may not marry non-Muslim men, non-Muslims may not inherit from their Muslim relatives, and a testimony of a non-Muslim is inadmissible against a Muslim. A non-Muslim who insults Islam must be put to death, according to most schools of Islamic jurisprudence, or flogged and imprisoned, according to others.
This item has caused some debate in the comments below. See here for the complaint, and here for the reply.
3. Hinduism [Dharmic, 1500 BC] 1 billion adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Hinduism has no founder, being itself a conglomerate of diverse beliefs and traditions. It is the world’s oldest existent religion, and has approximately a billion adherents, of whom about 905 million live in India and Nepal. Hinduism contains a vast body of scriptures. Divided as revealed and remembered and developed over millennia, these scriptures expound on theology, philosophy and mythology, providing spiritual insights and guidance on the practice of dharma (religious living). Among such texts, the Vedas and the Upanishads are the foremost in authority, importance and antiquity. Other major scriptures include the Tantras, the sectarian Agamas, the Purāṇas and the epics Mahābhārata and Rāmāyaṇa. The Bhagavad Gītā, a treatise excerpted from the Mahābhārata, is sometimes called a summary of the spiritual teachings of the Vedas.
Prominent themes in Hindu beliefs include Dharma (ethics/duties), Samsāra (The continuing cycle of birth, life, death and rebirth), Karma (action and subsequent reaction), Moksha (liberation from samsara), and the various yogas (paths or practices). Hinduism is a diverse system of thought with beliefs spanning monotheism, polytheism, pantheism, monism and even atheism. It is sometimes considered as henotheistic (devotion to a single “God” while accepting the existence of other gods), but such a view may be considered an oversimplification of the complexities and variations of belief.
4. Buddhism [Dharmic, 600 BC] 376 million adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Buddhism is also known as Buddha Dharma or Dhamma, which means roughly the “teachings of the Awakened One” in Sanskrit and Pali, languages of ancient Buddhist texts. Buddhism was founded around the fifth century BCE by Siddhartha Gautama - most commonly referred to as The Buddha. In Buddhism, any person who has awakened from the “sleep of ignorance” (by directly realizing the true nature of reality), without instruction, and teaches it to others is called a buddha. All traditional Buddhists agree that Shakyamuni or Gotama Buddha was not the only Buddha: it is generally taught that there have been many past Buddhas and that there will be future Buddhas too.
While there are now many sects of Buddhism, they all hold to four fundamental points: 1, All accept the Buddha as their teacher; 2, all accept the Middle Way (non-extremism), Dependant Origination, the Four Noble Truths, and the Noble Eightfold Path; 3, all accept that both monks and the laity can pursue the path to englightenment; and 4, all consider Buddahood to be the highest attainment.
5. Sikhism [Dharmic, 1469 AD] 23 million adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Sikhism was founded by Guru Nanak (1469-1539 AD) who was the first of Sikhism’s 10 Gurus, a lineage of holy teachers that continued until the end of the 17th century. The Gurus are understood to be the mediators of divine grace. Sikhism originated in the Punjab region of northwest India, where it drew on elements from Bhakti Hinduism and Islamic Sufism to develop into a distinctive religious tradition in its own right. Sikhs believe that liberation from the karmic cycle of rebirths occurs in the merging of the human spirit with the all-embracing spirit of God. Sikh males are recognisable by their long beards and turbans - worn to cover the hair that traditional says they should not cut.
Their religious worship involves contemplation of the divine Name. The ultimate deity is known by several names: Sat (truth), Sat Guru (true Guru), Akal Purakh (timeless being), Kartar (creator), and Wahi-Guru (”praise to the Guru”). By concentrating on God’s Name (or many titles), Sikhs believe that one conquers the ego and unites with God.
The compilation of the Sikh scriptures, the Adi Granth, was begun in 1604 by the Fifth Guru. The last of the ten Gurus, Guru Gobind Singh, announced that he would be the last personal Guru and that thereafter, Sikhs were to regard the Adi Granth (Guru Granth Sahib) as their teacher. This sacred book is considered the living embodiment of all ten Gurus and is therefore the focus of worship in all Sikh temples and local gurudwaras, or sanctuaries.
6. Judaism [Abrahamic, 1300 BC] 14 million adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people, based on principles and ethics embodied in the Bible (Tanakh) and the Talmud (Rabbinical discussions on ethics, customs, and law). According to Jewish tradition, the history of Judaism begins with the Covenant between God and Abraham, the patriarch and progenitor of the Jewish people. Judaism is among the oldest religious traditions still in practice today.
Throughout the ages, Judaism has clung to a number of religious principles, the most important of which is the belief in a single, omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent, transcendent God, who created the universe and continues to govern it. Originally Judaism had priests and a temple in which sacrifices were made to God. The priesthood is an inherited position, and although priests no longer have any but ceremonial duties, they are still honored in many Jewish communities. Many Orthodox Jewish communities believe that they will be needed again for a future Third Temple and need to remain in readiness for future duty.
Following the destruction of Jerusalem and the expulsion of the Jews, Jewish worship stopped being centrally organized around the Temple, prayer took the place of sacrifice, and worship was rebuilt around rabbis who acted as teachers and leaders of individual communities. Modern Judaism is generally split into three groups: Orthodox, Conservative, and Liberal.
7. Baha’i Faith [Abrahamic, 1900 AD] 7 million adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Baha’i was founded in Iran in the mid-nineteenth century by Mirza Husayn Ali (1817-1892). Better known as Baha’ullah, he believed that he was the prophet foretold by the Bab, a religious leader who was believed to be a direct descendent of the prophet Muhammad. Baha’ullah was persecuted and banished several times during his life, and he died as a prisoner in Palestine. Babism (from which Baha’i originates) was a breakaway from shi’a Islam.
Important Baha’i prophets include Adam, the Jewish prophets, Jesus, and Muhammed, all of whom have been succeeded by Baha’ullah. The closest thing to a religious text the Baha’i have is Baha’ullah’s Kitab al-Aqdas (The Most Holy Book) which contains detailed instructions for Baha’i living.
The Baha’i believe that all religions teach the same truth. They therefore reject prejudice–racial, political, or otherwise–and stress ethical teachings such as world peace, education, and sexual equality. Although they believe that God is completely unknowable, they hold that God’s presence and works are evident in the creation of the world and the existence of the prophets, among other things.
8. Confucianism [Taoic, 600 BC] 6.4 million adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Confucianism is a Chinese set of philosphical and ethical beliefs that were taught by the sage Confucius. It has had a tremendous effect on East Asia right up to the 21st century. Debated during the Warring States Period and forbidden during the short-lived Qin Dynasty, Confucianism was chosen by Emperor Wu of Han for use as a political system to govern the Chinese state. There is a large body of Confucian texts which includes the I Ching (a series of divinations) and a series of books on poetry, rituals, music, and more. You can view a complete list of these texts on Wikipedia.
Confucianist doctrine remained a mainstream Chinese orthodoxy for two millennia until the 20th century, when it was attacked by radical Chinese thinkers as a vanguard of a pre-modern system and an obstacle to China’s modernization, eventually culminating in its repression during the Cultural Revolution in the People’s Republic of China.
Confucianism aims at making not simply the man of virtue, but the man of learning and of good manners. The perfect man must combine the qualities of saint, scholar, and gentleman. Confucianism is a religion without positive revelation, with a minimum of dogmatic teaching, whose popular worship is centered in offerings to the dead, in which the notion of duty is extended beyond the sphere of morals proper so as to embrace almost every detail of daily life.
9. Jainism [Dharmic, 600 BC] 4.2 million adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Jainism is one of the oldest religions in India and it has co-existed alongside Hinduism despite being a minority of less than 1% of the population. The religion was founded by Mahavira (”The Great Hero”) who is considered to be the most recent in a long line of 24 teachers who have brought Jainism to the world during various epochs. These teachers preach a belief in enlightenment through austerity and rejection of the world. Jains do not believe in a god and they seek release from endless reincarnations through strict self-denial.
Jainism also places a great emphasis on non-harm of living things and will often have their mouths covered with muslin to prevent accidentally swallowing insects. Many Jains also use a small brush to sweep the ground in front of them while travelling so they don’t accidentally step on a creature.
The main religious text of Jainism is called Agamas. An agama is an ancient Jain textbook. There were many agamas in ancient times, but as time passed, many of them were lost or destroyed. At present, 45 agamas are available. Agamas are written in the Prakrit language. These are read and studied by Jain monks (sadhus) only. The sacred literature was not written down until 500 AD.
There are two main types of Jain, the Digambaras and the Shvetambaras. The Digambaras have much simpler rituals and disdain earthly belongings to a point that the male monks live completely naked.
10. Shinto [Taoic, 300 BC] 4 million adherents [Wikipedia | Britannica | Beliefnet]
Shinto is a religious system that originates in Japan which has influences from Buddhism and other Chinese religions. Shinto recognizes no all-powerful deity and is a diverse set of traditional rituals and ceremonies, rather than a system of dogmatic beliefs or ethics. Shinto recognises a variety of gods (kami) which are the powers of nature primarily associated with such things as animals, trees, mountains, springs, boulders, the sun, and sometimes ancestors. Offerings are made to these gods and they are later eaten.
Shinto rituals involve dance and Shinto priests bless the offerings to the gods with branches from the sacred sakaki tree dipped in holy water. In some parts of Japan, women Shamans fall into a trance and speak for the gods.
Shinto does not have a founder or canon of religious texts, but a written Shinto mythology appears in the early sections of the eighth-century books “Kojiki” (”Records of Ancient Matters,” completed in 712 AD) and “Nihon Shoki” (”Chronicles of Japan,” completed in 720 AD), which record the role of the kami in creating Japan and the Japanese imperial lineage
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1. Monteze - July 31st, 2007 at 10:18 pm
I dont mean to be rude but if religion is suposed to be serious and sacred then why do people just pull out parts of it so it can suit them ie martin luther and the old testament, which is what JESUS and his prophets used. come on with that kind of mind set anyone could just say ehhh i dont like that iam just gonna change it and say it is gods word.. again i dont mean to start a huge theological debat this is just a third persons view, and i do respect others beliefs.
2. jfrater - August 1st, 2007 at 11:06 am
Monteze: I quite agree and that has been the bone of contention for many people - religious and non-religious for virtually all of human history!
3. josh - August 1st, 2007 at 5:50 pm
I very strongly agree with Monteze and jfrater
4. Rob - August 1st, 2007 at 8:33 pm
I also agree. We should also be able to make these comments and not be called disrespectful. I myself am Christian and have had my questions deemed “blasphemous” when they are just harmless observations. In my opinion, the ones who are afraid of asking questions are the ones who are really losing faith.
5. Dave - August 2nd, 2007 at 2:17 am
Actually Martin Luther didnt “just pull out parts of it so it can suit them”. His 98 Thesis was his way of addressing certain abuses by the church. Namely the commercialization of the granting of penance for sin. His purpose was to return the church to a more biblical point of view esspecialy the idea that sin is forgiven by grace through faith.
We need a new Martin Luther. The self styled leaders of today have once again corrupted the church and used peoples faith for their own personal gain.
As for the rest of the list. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Most of these religons I was unaware of the beliefs held by their followers. Some of them I didnt even know existed
6. AM - August 2nd, 2007 at 3:47 am
Which books constituted The Old Testament (well, Tanakh really) was hardly even firm in Jesus’ time, and today even the Catholic OT and The Tanakh (Jewish bible) disagree on which books to include (Judith and 1 & 2 Maccabees, for instance, are in the Catholic and Orthodox bibles but not in the Protestant or Jewish).
The problem of Apocrophal books is a big one- Revelation was highly suspect for a long time and there were those who were quite upset with Luther for putting it back in. These books are not the stable canon we take them to be.
7. Dox - August 3rd, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Biblical canon has been established by numerous people, who recognized separate books as divinely inspired. Then, the Councils of Laodicea, Hippo and Carthage, one after another, decided the 27 we know today to be accurate.
Luther was Catholic. And I’m not sure, but I think when Luther translated it, he included some of the Apocrypha… just, like, off to one side.
I may be wrong ._.
8. NewAdvent - August 4th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Jesus and the apostles used the Septuagint old testament - that is what the Catholic canon is based on. Effectively, Luther removed books that were in the very bible Jesus used. I guess Luther knew more than God.
9. sufian - August 5th, 2007 at 3:14 am
Hi.
I’m a Muslim, and what was said about Islam is not far from the truth.
… edited by moderator
10. jfrater - August 5th, 2007 at 7:23 am
sufian: thanks for your comment - I enjoyed reading it. I have had to remove some parts of it, however, because this site is not an avenue for proselytism.
11. Shlomo - August 5th, 2007 at 11:45 am
the one about Judaism is pretty accurate. kudos
12. jfrater - August 5th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Shlomo: Thanks - I tried to verify all my information from various sources.
13. sufian - August 5th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Hi to all;
jfrater: I was disappionted of what happened, I always feel that people should know about these sort of things then make their own decision, a lot of truth is being hidden from us, by people who make the same desision as you did to remove my comment (i’m sorry to say), but then again you are in cotrol and have the right to CONTROL what appears on this site.
I keep looking for somewhere where I can freely explain what is meant by religion and the difference with MAN-MADE beliefs that keep being changed to suite the one who doesn’t like what he reads…
14. jfrater - August 5th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
sufian: I can understand your disappointment, but I am sure you realise that if everyone were to do the same thing we would end up with the site becoming a huge religious flame war rather than pleasant chatter about the lists - which is the main focus
15. sufian - August 5th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Ok cheers…
Nice list by the way… did I forget to mention that? lol
16. ammar - August 7th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
i was intrigued by all of your top ten coundown but dude, wtf is up with
” and a testimony of a non-Muslim is inadmissible against a Muslim. A non-Muslim who insults Islam must be put to death, according to most schools of Islamic jurisprudence, or flogged and imprisoned, according to others.”
ive never heard of these parts and ive been going to islamic schools since i was 3. ive heard the most stupid laws tried to be influenced by incoherant excuses for teachers and ive heard the best reasons for most of the seemingly unfair issues in islam. (such as a woman cannot marry a non muslim.) however, i have never once, ever, ever, ever, in my 18 years of attwending islamic conferances, classes, meeting and general discussions, say that someone who insults islam should die or be even harmed. where ever u got that info, it was wrong. however, if soeone should insult the prophet we are supposed to do somehting about it, and even then it does not imply violence.
as for taking the word of a muslim over a non muslim, in that day and age everyone was an enemy of islam and the arab people tried many dirtbag ways to destory the religion. now a days it seems almost the same however the arab poeple has been replaced by the u.s government. however, ive never heard of having to believe what a muslim says over a non muslim. that lacks common sense. of course i will listen to a muslim over someone like bill o reily, but im not going to listen to a random muslim over my good irish friend who’ve ive known for years. the fact of listneing to only muslims would spread ignorance and this is somehitng NOT in the quran at all. why would anyone do that? its plain dumb and regardless of where u got that info, it is false.
the rest of your summary of islam is basically correct, although i notice some negative bias as the end of everything islam related in ur posts ends on a negative note. what if a girl is doing everything right and right be4 u got some action she kicked u in the balls and called you a faggot be4 setting ur hair on fire? u sure as hell wouldnt remember the good stuff wehen u thought about her. even though u read some good stuff on islam u dont need to end it in a negative way. its actually kind of fucked up. i dont see u doing that with any other religion, including shinto ism. AND I KNO shintoism isnt easy to get. i studied in japan.
17. Dane - August 8th, 2007 at 6:43 am
Just to comment on source material…I get the feeling that a lot of the info and posts here get their info from Wikipedia. Now, I like Wikipedia but let’s not forget…Wikipedia is open to ANYONE. As a member, you can freely edit any entry or post virtually any entry. Generally speaking, Wikipedia is a good secondary source for info, but I would not take too seriously any info or post that uses it as a primary source. This is not to say that the person who does this is somehow bad..it’s simply that with the way Wikipedia is structured, the possibility of information being distorted is high. With that in mind, relying on it as a primary source of info isn’t a good idea.
18. jfrater - August 8th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Dane: I usually put links to related wikipedia articles at the end of each item, but I have recently started cross-referencing with Encyclopaedia Britannica as well (and other sources if appropriate). I definitely agree that Wikipedia is not always a safe source.
19. jfrater - August 8th, 2007 at 8:02 am
ammar: the section you dislike is taken from a book “The Jews of Islam” by Bernard Lewis (Amazon
) written in 1974. Lewis (the Cleveland E. Dodge Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University) is one of the most widely-read scholars of the Middle East.
I hope that at least lets you know that I am not posting with a bias against Islam. I have posted links to your comment and this reply in the original item.
20. Sheralyn - August 15th, 2007 at 1:35 am
I firmly believe that someday far in the future, libraries will have books on “Christian Mythology” right along with those of Egyptian, Roman and Greek Mythology. I study most major religions and find most of them do contain some truths, but I do not believe any religion is the “one, true religion”. In my opinion, Reform Judaism is the most sensible and realistic faith. However, all the ones you mention here have something positive about them.
21. finvandam - August 15th, 2007 at 1:37 am
At 13 million strong, Mormonism (or the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints) is the 7th largest faith in the world, and the fastest-growing. It is neither Catholic, Orthodox, nor Protestant. It is sometimes grouped together as part of a fourth branch of Christianity known as the Restorationist movement. Mormons do not believe in the Trinity as defined in traditional Christian creeds, acknowledge the existence of more than one god, and believe their faith to be the Restoration of the original faith established by Jesus. Inclusion of LDS in the “Christian” group, as defined above, is inaccurate as it does not share the characteristics you describe. Mormons firmly believe they are Christians, though some “Christian” faiths do not.
22. jfrater - August 15th, 2007 at 7:43 am
finvandam: if Mormons believe they are Christians do we not owe them the respect to include them in that list?
Also, according to the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, the World Christian Database as of 2007 estimated the six fastest growing religions of the world to be Islam (1.84%), the Bahá’í Faith (1.7%), Sikhism (1.62%), Jainism (1.57%), Hinduism (1.52%), and Christianity (1.32%). If Mormonism is included in Christianity that makes it a tiny percentage of the 6th fastest growing religion in the world, certainly not the first.
23. Aestiva - August 16th, 2007 at 4:09 am
I think it is interesting to note that the only complaint you felt the need to address in the articles was from a muslim. The truth hurts.
24. jfrater - August 16th, 2007 at 7:39 am
Aestiva: I am not sure what you are getting at. Do you think I should paste a link to the Mormon comments here as well?
25. heywood jablowme - September 26th, 2007 at 10:30 am
muslims are wacked out.
there is no excuse for killing people, and anyone or any religion that says different is wacked out too.
26. Steve T. - October 5th, 2007 at 4:11 am
Thanks for a great list! Very informative with excellent synopis’. Regardless of what autocratic “leaders” have to say, knowledge is power and the more each of know about others beliefs the more we learn to respect our inherent differences. I personally agree with the Bahai’s: many paths one truth. We can learn much from all the great prophets. Let’s emphasize our commonalities not our differences. Regardless of your path to the divine our creator is loving and benevolent and doesn’t want us to kill each other.
27. jfrater - October 5th, 2007 at 7:02 am
Steve T. You are welcome.
28. rowd - November 30th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
I dispute the Shinto entry: I will not pretend to have an extensive background in Japanese culture, but the little time I’ve spent in the country, and moderate amount of time spent with Japanese people and learning about the culture, I’m relatively sure that Shintoism is much older than Hinduism and Buddhism in Japan. As such, it was influenced by neither.
29. Scott Rafer - November 30th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
@jfrater and @finvandam I think the issue is that a number of Christian faiths are shrinking and that Mormons (and probably some other evangelical faiths) are more than making up for that shrinkage.
30. Benjie - November 30th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Post about Islam is really bias. Why not add to Judaism: In Judaism, gentile are considered inferior to Jews. Plenty of source available for it.
31. Tom - December 1st, 2007 at 5:23 am
“The post about islam is biased” … *ahem* it seems not :
http://www.powerlineblog.com/a.....019157.php
It doesn’t help that the paedophile prophet (anyone who fucks a 9 year old girl against her will is a paedophile, it does not matter shit that he founded a religion) was not just a mass murderer but …
The prophet ADMIRED a scumbag muslim that stabbed a Jewish mother in the night while her BABY WAS LYING ON HER CHEST. Google for “Asma bint Marwan”.
The list of the paedophile prophet’s despicable depravity is just too absurd too believe, but unfortunately, it’s true :
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm
Allow me to finalize this post with a quote from the islamofascist manifesto (the quran) :
“There can never be peace. War is good. Every muslim who thinks differently must know allah knows better.” - quran 2:216
32. Bill - December 1st, 2007 at 10:44 am
Fuck you idiot. ^^^^^
33. Lao Tze - December 1st, 2007 at 11:52 am
1. What, No Taoism?
2. I think Mormonism should be included (and I’m no mormon). The LDS believe that they are the correct branch of the teachings of Christ, and that the Christians are a corruption of the original truth. The Muslims believe the same thing, and they get their own branch.
34. Jeremy - December 1st, 2007 at 12:24 pm
The above garbage posted by Bill and Tom is exactly what the author does not want on this website. Please respect that.
35. Jers - December 1st, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Tom did not post garbage:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm
Go look at the site, it’s quite intellectual in it’s approach unlike Bill’s comment.
36. kurt - December 1st, 2007 at 9:00 pm
The site cited is a garbage. There are plenty of anti-semitic web site. Should article also refer to them.
37. Kongo - December 2nd, 2007 at 1:48 am
All religions are equally stupid.
38. Woogy - December 2nd, 2007 at 2:00 am
All commentors are equally stupid.
39. Tom - December 2nd, 2007 at 1:18 pm
However the antisemitic websites contain lies.
The muslims point of view is simply :
yes the prophet fucked little girls against their will, this was a good act and “paedophile” is negative so he’s not a paedophile
yes the prophet murdered (a lot of) Jews, however massacre is a negative word, and what he did was good.
yes the quran states all non-muslims are worth less than animals, but they are, what are you, islamophobic ?
40. GForce - December 9th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Feel free to answer anyone. Do you think religion has had a positive or negative affect on history?
41. phunniemee - December 9th, 2007 at 10:47 am
GForce: That question can’t be answered. You can’t separate religion FROM history, because religion has been the driving force behind so many of the things that have made the world as it is.
42. phunniemee - December 9th, 2007 at 10:50 am
If you need an example: empire. Justified because of Kipling’s “white man’s burden.” It’s OK to go and destroy the culture of another, as long as you’re spreading the word of god and brining them civilization.
43. GForce - December 9th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Thats what I was getting at. Seems like the negative results such as genocide and forced conversions outweigh the positive effects for the common citizens anyway.
44. Tomc - December 9th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
@phunniemee
What you don’t seem to understand is just how bad conditions were for indians in america before arrival of “the colonists”.
Indians :
-> constant (if small) wars
-> obviously zero luxeries
-> living in tents made of animal skin
-> obviously regular famines
…
All these things are eradicated today in America. Do you really think this could be eliminated in an “native Indian” type civilization ?
Have you ever lived (for even a week) under these conditions ? If not, please don’t presume to know “what’s better”.
Does religion really have something to do with this ? As evidenced by islam : yes. The Christian North Africa in 500 AD was the richest country on earth. It wasn’t a desert, it was prosperous beyond description, …
700 AD (50 years after arabs attacked) it was the poorest country on earth.
Do you suppose this is coincidence ?
45. jfrater - December 9th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
I would just like to add to what Tom said - today in history the Virgin Mary appeared to a Mexican (Juan Diego Cuauhtlatoatzin) - the result is that it lead to the conversion of Mexico to Catholicism, acceptance of the Spanish intruders, and the end of human sacrifice. Regardless of what you think of the first two points - the end of human sacrifice is definitely a positive result of religion.
46. phunniemee - December 9th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Tomc: Did you even read what I wrote? I was simply saying how you can’t separate religion from history in a way that you can judge it to have had an overall “good” or “bad” effect. And then I gave an example of how religion was closely tied to something that completely changed the world.
Just because YOU have an agenda doesn’t mean you can appropriate it onto my comment and assume that I don’t know what I’m talking about.
47. James B - December 16th, 2007 at 11:36 am
I really liked this! It was nice to learn a bit about some of the different Dharmic and Taoic beliefs. I think it would be really interesting if, in time, you did some studies of ten more, lesser known religions. Zorastrianism? Quaker? Voodoo? I love learning about religions, and again, this was a great setup!
48. jfrater - December 16th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Thanks James B - there are definitely heaps of opportunities to write other religious lists.
49. Treznor - January 16th, 2008 at 2:25 am
In Buddhism, any person who has awakened from the “sleep of ignorance” (by directly realizing the true nature of reality), without instruction, and teaches it to others is called a buddha.
Well actually anyone that reaches Illumination is consider a Buddah, it does not matter if one was instructed or not or even if it stays here to teach others….If you reach Illumination and chooses to leave Earth then your are called an Arhat and if you choose to stay here then you are called a Bodhisativa,Buddah reefers to a state or condition.
Regards!
50. copperdragon - January 25th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Most religions are basically tax-free corporations.
Mormonism is a major religion and probably deserves an honorable mention. (i’m not one, but it’s big in my area - SW US)
Paganism (Wicca, Druids, etc.) deserves a mention, as it predates at least a couple of others, and is still practiced today.
51. saddened - March 10th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Tom, your comments on Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) only saddens me. Using vulgar words, no matter what may be the subject of discussion and however you may hate a person, only reflects upbringing of a person. Fortunately for us people of your like are not too many among us. Please go through the posted comments to believe me. You are unique ! Just to correct you- yes, our Prophet(Pbuh) married Ayesha, when she was nine years old(under some circumstances) but the marriage was not consummated till she became of age.
52. 666 - March 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am
My god can beat up your god.
53. 666 - March 30th, 2008 at 10:04 am
If Jesus, muhhamed or any other of these con-men were alive today they would be justly improsoned or would have led mass suicides.
Sadd,
Your “prophet” was a con man, with a hardcore halucinogenic drug problem. Yeah, let me base my beliefs around some freak who lived in cave over a thousand years ago! Genius!
54. Tomc - March 31st, 2008 at 3:25 am
@666
Please show me where exactly in the bible Jesus led a genocide ? It’s not because the islamic prophet is a monster that they all are.
Yes muslims want to restart the muslim genocide that was finally ended by the kaliphs defeat at the hands of the british in WWI, and in some parts, they have. That does not mean Christians want to do the same.
Get some perspective. Different religions are (tadaaa) … different. islam (”repression” or “submission” in english) does not expect you to become muslim because of faith or reason, but out of mortal fear.
“You love life and we love death, and that’s why we will win” - the islamic prophet
55. FJ - April 19th, 2008 at 8:48 am
This is truly a great list!
I was so pleasantly suprised to see Shinto on this list. It is brilliant example of the complex nature of religion and how, in its truest and purest sense, it cannot be removed from its culture of origin.
I mean is Shinto a religion? Or is it an extrapolated part of Japanese culture used in service of Meiji? And since WW2 has it just become cultural heritage?
Fascinating, great list!
FJ
56. Bhagwat - April 25th, 2008 at 5:07 am
Core ideal of Hinduism is that the entire universe is a manifestation of the divine. Hence, everything is imbibed with the spirit of the divine - everything !
Also, we believe that there are many ways that lead to the divine. As a result, whenever a new sect entered India, we listened patiently to them, believing that they too have found a new route to God.
Though this was often mis-interpreted as compliance and willingness to convert, Hinduism has borne out its inclusive, tolerant strain by accepting all the various religions that came to its shore without loosing its own essential characteristics.
57. geronimo - May 21st, 2008 at 3:54 am
Guys why so much of Hatred??????? This is a really lovely site…pls keep it that way…you are entitled to your opinion but pls be careful how you voice it…you may end up hurting many people…but i guess that was the intention with some of you…
religion is something very personal and it should be kept that way…I am a muslim and i let it guide my life and i have had no problems with it and neither have had any of my friends. Incidentally none of them are muslims.
I live in India and i have seen and heard many cruel things Muslims have done, but Hindus, Christians and proponent of almost every other organized religion have had blood on their hands
Why should we complicate an already volatile issue and let all the ugliness spill over to this site…
Let our arguements be academic and let it not boil down to whoever types in the most expletives wins….
58. geronimo - May 21st, 2008 at 3:56 am
jfrater: Awesome man!!!. perfect cure for boring days at office..all my friends were hooked the moment they visite your site…
keep up the good work
59. Tomc - May 21st, 2008 at 6:38 am
Guys why so much of Hatred???????
“All non-muslims are the filthiest beasts in the eyes of god” - quran 8:55
Hate has a source, you know. And this is just one example.
60. geronimo - May 21st, 2008 at 11:54 pm
and what is the source of your hatred????
61. Se-Ragh! - June 25th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Tomc .. you are an absolute fool!
i am a muslim girl and every single one of my friends are christian. i love them and i love the religion. You rude remarks about the prophet sickens me! Learn some respect .. do you see any one that has replied to your comments offending your religion???
Islam is a beauiful religion.. just depend on how people interpret it that fucks everything up! The Quran cannot be interpreted into english because if it was the whole initial interpretation would be ruined! For example.. your stupid qutoes that you’ve posted up! At no time in my life have i ever been taught to hate other religions or use violence against non-muslims!
Islam teaches its adherents to love everyone and repect all religions .. so where you got your bullcrap from i have no idea! But don’t you dare use offensive language against islamic prophets and make out like Islam is a disgusting religion because it is anything but!!
62. tomc - June 26th, 2008 at 5:45 am
@Se-Ragh!
Look muslim girl, do you believe the quran is right, yes or no ?
In other words do you believe these EXACT WORDS :
(quran 8:55) “The worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe. Those of them with whom thou madest a treaty, at every opportunity they break their treaty, and they keep not duty (to Allah). Therefore if you overtake them in fighting, then scatter by (making an example of) them those who are in their rear, that they may be mindful.”
So either you believe your Christian friends are “the worst animals” or you’re not muslim.
Please explain to me whether the above verses are the truth for you, knowing that they are literal verses of the quran, or if allah lies in the quran. Are you a racist (for all muslims are racists) or an infidel. If you’re not racist, how can you believe all others are filthy animals ? That’s the very definition of racism.
If you think you can talk your way out of it with “it has to be interpreted”, then please consider quran 3:7, which states explicitly that not taking the quran literally is a sin.
And here’s what the prophet has to say about women, about you :
“Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.”
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fu.....01.006.301
Please tell me : is your paedophile prophet right, and you’re a lying infidel bitch destined for hellfire, or does the prophet lie ? Please take into account that these are authentic hadith.
Explore your religion a bit, dear “muslim” girl. You’ll see the ugly depths ever more clear every letter you read extra. These type statements are not exceptions in the islamic holy texts, but the rule.
63. geronimo - June 26th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
tomc: What do you think of these
JER 12:14
Thus saith the LORD against all mine evil neighbours,
that touch the inheritance
which I have caused my people Israel to inherit; (# ZEC 14:2-3,16-19 # JER 12:14-17)
Behold, I will pluck them out of their land, (# EZE 20:38 # MAT 13:41-43)
and pluck out the house of Judah from among them.
JER 12:15
And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out
I will return, and have compassion on them,
and will bring them again, every man to his heritage,
and every man to his land.
JER 12:16
And it shall come to pass,
if they will diligently learn the ways of my people,
to swear by my name, (# EXO 6:3 JEHOVAH)
The LORD liveth;
as they taught my people to swear by Baal;
then shall they be built in the midst of my people.
JER 12:17
But if they will not obey,
I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation
saith the LORD.
64. geronimo - June 26th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
so u come to me and obey me and follow me,life will be all sweetness and roses
but if you go against me, i will screw you to hell….
is that what this verse means????
give it a rest man….
if i google for 10 minutes, i could show you verses from all religions promoting racism and infidel bashing…what does this prove?????
would you be happy if every last one of us was wiped off the face of earth or converted into a more preferable religion????
I do agree that Se Ragh was a vitriolic in her attack, but she was trying to defend something that is precious to her..
Please do understand that all of us live in a civilized society and as such follow its rules and norms…
once again sorry for this long post..but this hatred has to stop somewhere…….
65. Stephny - July 12th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
According to recent publications, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (also known as ‘Mormons’), as of December 2007 has over 13 million members. It defiantly deserves a place on this list…
66. Star - July 15th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
@tomc
First of all, I am a Muslim man.
What you have posted on our prophet in not accepted at all by any means.
The Qur’an cannot be translated by non-Muslim as it will lose the right true meaning of it that was originally driven by our prophet Mohamed that he learned from ALLAH and he taught to his companion, This is to inform you that there are only specific authorized associations among the whole world who have the full awareness, knowledge and are trusted to provide the right interpretation for the holy Qur’an book in order to grantee honesty and credibility based on the real one that already driven on our prophet Mohammed by ALLAH.
Also any holy book related to any religion cannot be translated by any one who just read the book and not educated enough on it’s principles.
Again respect the discussion and yourself as the site is just informative list and of course not all info posted any where is right.
67. Tom - August 11th, 2008 at 8:36 am
@Star
This translation is obviously made by a muslim. So now let’s hear you say why this translation includes that
“all non-muslims are the worst of the beasts”.
So let’s hear it from you. What is the case here ? Does the quran lie ? Is it simply wrong ? Is this meant figuratively (in direct contradiction to quran 3:7, stating that this verse is meant literally) ?
So which part of the quran do you dispute ? Where is your alternative translation ? Or do you merely wish to excuse your own racist feelings by drawing attention away from them ?
Any book that states people are “filthy beasts” due to their way of thinking is a racist book. Therefore the quran is racist, and following it (being a muslim) is a racist act.
Unless you agree, obviously that the reverse statement :
“muslims are the worst beasts on earth” is not a racist statement either.
So let’s hear it. Are you a racist ? Or do you think the quran is wrong ?
68. some random dude - August 11th, 2008 at 9:25 am
ok mr.tom i am afraid you took verse 8:55 out of context in the verse before it is talking about the people of the pharaoh. So 8:55 is referring to the people of the pharaoh as it clearly states here
Deeds) after the manner of the people of Pharaoh and those before them”: They treated as false the Signs of their Lord: so We destroyed them for their crimes, and We drowned the people of Pharaoh: for they were all oppressors and wrong-doers. verse 8:54.
69. some random dude - August 11th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Also 8:55 doesn’t say “All non-muslims” .It says those who reject Allah. You distorted the text. There is a difference between a non-muslim and one who rejects allah.
So Mr.Tom stop this deceit.
70. Man on the moon - August 11th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
@jfrater
Bernard lewis’s field is history not theology. Just because something happened in history doesn’t mean it reflects the teaching of that religion. How about you try to go back to Islamic sources such as the Quran instead of what muslims did in history.
71. Man on the moon - August 11th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
I think you should pick better sources.
72. Man on the moon - August 12th, 2008 at 4:49 am
Also I didn’t see you write Christianity teaches you to go around killing innocent people.
You can’t argue that it wasn’t done in the crusades and in the name of Christ.
Please stop having this double standard that clearly have.
I won’t argue that muslims didn’t do the things you say Islam teaches.
Also I don’t believe Chrisstianity teaches that, I”m just ppointing something out.
73. Tom - August 18th, 2008 at 7:28 am
You neglected to mention what triggered Christians killing muslim (muslim soldiers during the crusades.
Tell me it was a certain Saladin that boasted of “having Jerusalem’s streets drenched in blood up to the knees of his men for 3 days”. The crusades were a response to that little event. Why don’t you look up what this guys religion was & why he saw it necessary to drench Jerusalem’s streets in blood.
So yes, after being attacked and massacred for about 20 years by muslims, Christians defended their own, and that did indeed involve killing muslims. It involved killing muslims on a hell of a lot more occasions than just the crusades, but don’t let me keep a partial list from you :
-> the siege of Vienna
-> Charles Martel
-> The siege of Malta
-> about 1000 attacks on Constantinople (which has been de-christianized by muslim massacres)
-> further ethnic cleansing of Turkey, starting with an expedition by the paedophile prophet himself, and most recently continuing by the massacres of the Turks on the Armenians in 1923
-> The fall of Christian Cairo (and 4 or 5 attacks before that)
-> the terror campaign muslims started after their emancipation in italy
-> sicily. Just about it’s entire history since 700 A.D.
If you are looking, in Christianity, for instructions to kill people you will come up empty handed I’m afraid. The closest instruction to that (which was also at least partly a defensive action) can be found in the Exodus book. Look up “mindaneans”.
However there is nothing in Christianity like islam’s “every muslim is a slave of allah - his orders are to fight AND KILL for islam. That is the supreme achievement of islam” - quran 9:111, in case there’s any doubt : quran 3:7 states that this is meant literally, and that it’s a sin (punishable by death obviously) to interpret anything else than the individual words.
If muslims don’t do what the quran teaches, then they’re not muslims, in my opinion, which is shared by every imam alive. Why don’t you ask a random muslim of his opinion on the matter. Every muslim population can turn, in the blink of an eye, into a murderous mob, and this is because of islam. The quran teaces genocide, mass rape, massacres and worse. The bible doesn’t. You can’t change that.
And yes, muslims can do, for my part, whatever they damn well please, as long as they don’t hurt others. However it DOES have bearing on islam that the quran exhorts genocide, you cannot just ignore that.
74. Tom - August 18th, 2008 at 7:36 am
All muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, only became muslim through massacres. Look at the size of the muslim world … just how many they killed only God knows, but we know a minimum number : 500 million people.
At least 200 million hindus were killed to create pakistan as an islamic state. Persia was slaughtered, and eventually became Iran.
All things islamic are what’s left after a massacre, including even Mecca. I would understand completely if someone were to wipe them out.
75. Tom - August 18th, 2008 at 7:40 am
“Also 8:55 doesn’t say “All non-muslims” .It says those who reject Allah. You distorted the text. There is a difference between a non-muslim and one who rejects allah.”
Is this a joke ? Is there supposed to be a difference between those groups ? Yes the quran orders first an attempt to terrorize people into accepting islam, and “only” if that doesn’t work does it demand muslims commit large scale genocides …
Is this supposed to make me feel better ? Why do you protect an asshole paedophile that told people “God says it’s okay” (muhammad raped a 9 year old girl when he was 54, as muslim sources confirm)
76. Hobolad - August 18th, 2008 at 7:47 am
@Tom: You can’t be serious?
“I would understand completely if someone were to wipe them out.”
You’d blame the people for the misdeeds of their ancestors? Well, I guess that’s a Christian stance- “Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.”
“Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. ”
If you think there’s nothing as bad as what you’ve quoted in the bible, you mustn’t have paid much attention in sunday school.
“Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.”
“I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD.”
There’s a couple of br00tal excerpts.
77. Hobolad - August 18th, 2008 at 7:49 am
The ones about genocide and the killing of all those who don’t serve Jesus are a bit too long to quote. Nice website- www.evilbible.com
Not that I have anything against Christians in particular, or support any other religion over Christianity- but in the interests of balance, I think it’s a link that needs posting.
78. geronimo - August 18th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Tom tell me what happened in Africa when the Colonialists came down to “civilize” the people
And please tell me what you know about the Indian Independance Struggle…
Tell me what happened during the partition when millions of hindus and muslims were uprooted from their homes and thrown across a newly created border….and whose idea was it to turn hindus and muslims against each other…. ever heard of a company called East India Company which came up with this brilliant idea of stirring up religious discord to achieve their aim of taking over India
Have you heard of forced conversion to Christianity that has been taking place for the last 200 years or so
If you think Christianity is all about benevolence and spreading sweetness and light, you have not read the bible properly. I dont have to give you examples. Someone has already done it.
You are talking about Saudi Arabia and other Muslim Countries…
tell me what is happening in Palestine..
Regarding Saladin and the Crusades, please read this
“In 1187, Saladin, Sultan of Egypt, recaptured Jerusalem, following the Battle of Hattin. After taking Jerusalem back from the Christians the Muslims spared civilians and for the most part left churches and shrines untouched to be able to collect ransom money from the Franks.[citation needed] Saladin is remembered respectfully in both European and Islamic sources as a man who “always stuck to his promise and was loyal.”[24] The reports of Saladin’s victories shocked Europe. Pope Gregory VIII called for a crusade, which was led by several of Europe’s most important leaders: Philip II of France, Richard I of England (aka Richard the Lionheart), and Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor. Frederick drowned in Cilicia in 1190, leaving an unstable alliance between the English and the French. Before his arrival in the Holy Land Richard captured the island of Cyprus from the Byzantines in 1191.[23] Cyprus would serve as a Crusader base for centuries to come, and would remain in Western European hands until the Ottoman Empire conquered the island from Venice in 1571.[23] After reaching port, Richard the Lionheart promised to leave noncombatants unharmed if the city of Acre surrendered. The brutality of an outnumbered army in a hostile land could be seen again when the city surrendered and Richard proceeded to massacre everyone, despite his earlier promise.[25] From the Frankish point of view, an oath made to a non-Christian was no oath at all. Philip left, in 1191, after the Crusaders had recaptured Acre from the Muslims. The Crusader army headed south along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. They defeated the Muslims near Arsuf, recaptured the port city of Jaffa, and were in sight of Jerusalem.[23] However, Richard did not believe he would be able to hold Jerusalem once it was captured, as the majority of Crusaders would then return to Europe, and the crusade ended without the taking of Jerusalem.[23] Richard left the following year after negotiating a treaty with Saladin. The treaty allowed unarmed Christian pilgrims to make pilgrimages to the Holy Land (Jerusalem), while it remained under Muslim control.”
I have been telling you again and again..you go searching for stuff to hate you will find it everywhere…. in every religion…
this thread is going nowhere
in fact u cant even maintain a decent conversation without adorning your sentences with expletives…
i dont know who you are ..but please grow up tom….
79. Tom - August 30th, 2008 at 2:33 am
@hobolad
And now a bit of context. What did the mindaneans do, right before that order was given ? Not that I think you’ll actually check, but the context puts quite a few caveats around that order. But yes, you’re right, at some point it is considered good to fight, and if necessary kill, for what you believe in.
This order is not an open excuse for world conquest, at all.
And the quran *does* contain openly direct calls for racism, as anyone blatantly can see.
Where do you find “infidels are the ugliest of beasts on earth. When one inconveniences you don’t just kill one, kill enough so that they know their place” in the bible, in the imperative, without further qualifiers like you find it in the quran ? That’s an order given to muslims in the quran.
But we all know what you’re trying to do : you’re trying to establish all ideologies as “basically the same” (except your own lefty ideology of course), when they’re obviously not. You’re especially resentful that of the many thousands of ideologies that have been tried, exactly one has built a civilization that lasted 2000 years, and counting, and the other ones that got anywhere close to that, look a hell of a lot like christianity. Of the others the longest held out about 800 years (and the last 500 years of ancient egypt were spent as a tiny country, nothing close to the “egyptian civilization” you mention). Socialism and communism lasted, well about 60-70 years and died. And that’s using the example set by the soviet union, because the average experiment with communism never sees it’s 30th birthday.
Ideologies are not the same. Christianity built a 2000 year lasting civilization and it’s going to last another 2000 years easily. It’s an ideology for the centuries. By contrast, postmodernism and socialism will not survive to see another century pass. Islam is “master” over deserts and hellholes that would like nothing more than to simply die, it thrives on hatred, especially antisemitism, but mostly racism in general. And no muslim state lasted more than 200 years, with the exception of the ottomans that lasted nearly 500 years (with a christian government). Turkey’s now lasted 70 years with a secular government, but it’s showing more and more signs of collapse. But of the Ottomans, you will see that of those 500 years, more than 350 were spent with an economy smaller than that of the average european city. And with a population that was mostly Christian (until they exterminated their Armenian population in 1923, Turkey was majority Christian, and even now both Armenian and Kurdish Christian pockets remain)
But even that stupid, and destitute attempt at making islam work lasted longer than your favorite, socialism/communism. That would mean you’re wrong. And we can’t have that, now can we ?
And obviously, you claim the only reason I think that different ideologies are … different … and that said differences have consequences is that I’m a racist. Real neat way out for today’s lefty. Obviously, islam is racist, by any real definition (why don’t you tell me why there isn’t a single black person left north of the sahara, when said area was populated entirely by mostly black christians before 650 A.D. ?). This combined with the fact that blacks are, according to again the quran, to be kidnapped and sold as slaves (the word for “black person” even also means slave in arabic).
There’s another problem. Christianity is, at it’s core, radically against slavery, eradicating it wherever it went. Islam reinstituted slavery in africa, after initial christian kingdoms exterminated the practice, and islam is the cause of the 800 years of slave trade in afrika starting at about 700.
Since you refuse to condemn islam, you must be pro-slavery ? Or are you now going to find only a “partly changed” islam acceptable ? Why don’t you try to make that part of your thinking consistent first.
The truth is, obviously, you don’t get to change islam. Therefore islam includes slavery and genocides, as comitted by the paedophile prophet, and as written down in the “unchanged” (except in the 1980 “satanic verses” incident, the 1923 recollection of the quran and dozens of times before that) quran.
So you have to choose : you cannot distinguish in being pro or contra between (for example) islam and slavery, islam and brutally killing homosexuals, islam and honor killings. Being pro-islam means being “tolerant” of slavery, tolerant of exterminating homosexuals (and quite a few other groups), being “tolerant” of honor killings.
Tolerance for islam, means tolerance for the contents of a book, of a story. A story you can’t pick and choose from.
“Muslims are the ugliest beasts on earth. When one hinders you, don’t just kill one, kill enough, so that they know their place” - quran 8:55, with “infidel” replaced by “muslim”.
Tell me, is this racist ? And if yes, why are you defending the racist muslims ?
80. some random dude - August 30th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
You are talking about politics. This has nothing to do with our discussion.
Regarding slavery here is what Muhammad says
Sahih bukhari
Volume 8, Book 80, Number 748:
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
The Prophet forbade the selling of the Wala’ (of slaves) or giving it as a present
So according to Muhammad the slave trade was forbidden.
At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, “I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names.” The Prophet said to me, ‘O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.’ (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)”
Will you kidnap and sell your brothers to a cruel master ?
I’ll give you this when you take 8:55 all by its self it does sound racist, but when you go to the context you realize it is talking about the people of the pharaoh.
All scholars have differentiated between typical non-Muslims and those who reject Allah.
You ignored my main point about the context
During the Middle ages Christianity wasn’t exactly the beckon of tolerance.
Regarding the Muslim attacks on Cairo the Muslims didn’t every single christian like the crusaders did to the Muslims.
The crusades started b4 the siege of Vienna, where did you get your history from?
Do you have any evidence a massacre in Constantinople?
Once again the siege of Malta was after crusades started.
Charles Martel was a christian.
Verse 4:90 makes it clear you are only aloud to fight in self defense.
Show me one thing in in 4:90 you object to.
81. tomc - September 12th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Slave trade forbidden in islam ? It seems the whole of the islamic world disagrees with you. Slave trade or “involuntary service contracts” are STILL legal in mecca. How will you explain that little tidbit away ? Are there no muslims in Mecca ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3204297.stm
Is that not slavery ? Are these Saudi’s not muslim ? Because this practice is quite accepted in Saudi Arabia.
The paedophile prophet NOT ONLY kidnapped people to sell as slaves. He kidnapped women to sell as sex-slaves, and kept 20% of the sexslaves for himself in multiple battles.
So unless you’re ready to say that the paedophile prophet is a total monster of a man (which he obviously was), you’re not going to make any believeable case “repression” (english translation of the arabic word “islam”) is against slavery.
So tell me, was it completely and utterly inhuman of the prophet to kidnap and sell slaves “upon command of allah” in SEVERAL battles ? If yes, then how can such a monster be called a god ?
How can islam, with a paedophile, slave-trading prophet as it’s example, be against slavery ?
I’m not playing you’re “let’s only see this verse” games. I’ve read the quran and I’ve read mein kampf, I’ve read “das capital” (in German), I’ve read Mao’s red book. NONE of those books, whose ideologies killed over 100 million people in just one century went anywhere near as far as the quran went. Did you know, by the way, that hitler, in mein kampf, expressed admiration for what “belief in a stupid little prophet” could make turks do (you’ll have to forgive his language, you see in 1920 socialists were kinda anti-religion) ? He was referring to the armenian genocide. He mentioned that there wasn’t any single turk with the slightest bit of regret.
Everybody knows the stories of what happened after the city of constantinople fell. The streets filled with blood. Massacred in the name of a death God, their blood held up to the moon (allah is a moon-god, with three daughters in case anyone doesn’t know, however the part about his daughters, highlighted by salman rushdie has been scrapped from the quran by khomeini).
Where is your compassion with the 600 million victims the spread of islam cost the world ? Where is the black, Christian North-Africa ? There aren’t any more blacks, and very few Christians in north africa, and in Sudan, muslims are demonstrating why. They call it a “jihad”. Do tell me, which religion does that word, in this case being used for an extermination war against people whose only crime is their skin color, come from ?
Tell me, how can you tolerate such a death cult ? If you are truly against slavery, you must agree the paedophile “prophet” cannot by any measure be considered a good person. So how do you tolerate his filth that is islam inside you ? Death cults only bring death :
“We love death, and you love life, and that is why we will win” - inspiring words of the paedophile islamic “prophet”
82. Some random dude - September 12th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Tom there is a difference between me and you. I actually quote my source. Where as the vast majority of your points are straw mans. I showed your quotation 8:55 was a complete misrepresentation, and I showed that Muhammad forbade the slave trade. I showed where Muhammad promoted humane treatment of slaves, I showed where the Quran makes it clear that the only fighting in Islam is in self defense.
Every you quote your source (if you quote it at all) it is a misrepresentation.
I’ve showed that Islamic concept of slavery in Islam is humane and acceptable. Now you have to refute my sources,and show that our view of slavery is the same as the pre-civil war American view of slavery.
I showed that your justifications of the crusades were distortions of history (to which you offered no response). So I think my argument of Muslim dos not equal Islam still stands.
83. Some random dude - September 12th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Does*
84. geronimo - September 12th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
tomc
your attack on Islam is laughable. what did you think..that one article would represent the entire of Saudi Arabia.
Granted that most of the Arabians are decadent people now, but please take a look at other civilized countries.
Did you know about the Australian man who kept his daughter locked for 24 years and fathered seven children with her. Who is to blame. His religion, his upbringing of just the fact that he has a f@#$ed up mind. check this link.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0.....-2,00.html
Or see what happened in this bible belt city of US
http://aftermathnews.wordpress.....its-midst/
Do you have any replies to this Tom?
You were very good at throwing obfuscations, deceits and half lies into your argument. Now you have turned desperate.
You have read Mein Kempf, Das Kapital and the Quran. Try reading the Old Testament of the Bible.
There will be no more posts from me on this issue.
85. Tom - September 13th, 2008 at 10:31 am
You’re making my point for me. You claim I lack quotes, let me quote you :
“I’ve showed that Islamic concept of slavery in Islam is humane and acceptable. Now you have to refute my sources,and show that our view of slavery is the same as the pre-civil war American view of slavery.”
If you think that slavery IN ANY WAY can be either humane or acceptable then I (and the rest of the civilised world) have not a further word for you.
@geronimo
“your attack on Islam is laughable. what did you think..that one article would represent the entire of Saudi Arabia.
Granted that most of the Arabians are decadent people now, but please take a look at other civilized countries.”
I merely claim that their culture, their religion, their politics (which are one and the same) are decadent.
Did you know muhammad, as a 54 year old fucked a 9 year old girl AGAINST HER WILL. He raped children.
Now a billion people find raping children acceptable, and a minority amongst them, obviously does indeed rape children. Your examples are laughable defenses since your examples, like the one in switzerland, were CRIMES.
Raping a child “within marriage” (a child who consented neither to the marriage nor to the sex) IS NOT A CRIME in islam. And that’s just one of the sordid examples of islamic morality. It is practiced, like we practice tennis, in muslim countries, and fully accepted. If the child seeks the help of another man (the only option any such child has) she is EXECUTED for her “crime” of attmepting to defend herself against a paedophile.
All because the paedophile prophet. Are you seriously telling me you don’t see a problem here ?
86. Some random dude - September 13th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I showed you where Muhammad said to treat your slaves like your brothers.
Once again all your points are straw mans. You don’t quote your source. Your just to shock people with empty rhetoric.
Why don’t you respond to the hadith and Quran verses I showed you. You failed to show are view of slavery is the same as the pre-civil war American view of slavery . The actions of Muslims are not a reflection of Islam.
You still have not responded to to my response to your justification of the crusades. So my of argument of Muslim dos not equal Islam still stands.
Show me any Quran verse or authentic hadith that says that Muhammad raped a 9 year old girl. I know you can’t.
Rather the Quran says you need their consent, and you can’t take away their dowry ( marriage gift).
004.019
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.
I’m still waiting for you quote your source. I’ve my sources. Why Can’t you quote yours?
87. mierah - September 16th, 2008 at 7:34 am
we’re actually allowed to marry non-muslims. as long as they convert. that’s in Malaysia. just saying
and tom. I live in a muslim country.
No one rapes a kid here. that is just sick and wrong.
88. mierah - September 16th, 2008 at 7:42 am
and btw, allah is not a moon god. and he doesn’t have daughters. allah has no family. make sure your info is correct you dolt.
89. mierah - September 16th, 2008 at 7:45 am
oh, wait. correction.
*no one rapes a kid in the name of god.
90. Mark - October 20th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I’m just wondering (please don’t get all pissy on me…) the terrorists that are attacking things and blowing themselves up in the name of Allah are just a a few random nutcase Muslim extremists in a huge comunity of just normal believers…right? I’ve heard (don’t tell me to “check my resources” cause I don’t really have any…) that they are doing that because of the Holy War: Jihad…is that right? Or is that just an excuse…
Also does the Quaran also say that Jihad is a one-way ticket into paradise? Like I said I’m not too sure about any of this…I’m only a freshmen in highschool…
91. Tomc - October 21st, 2008 at 6:43 am
@Mark
The simple answer is : yes.
The quran specifies that only if you “fight, kill and die” (interpret how you will, however the politically correct interpretation of “internal, personal struggle” seem to be kind of a difficult fit) you can get into paradise, regardless of other sins. You will receive 72 virgins (or raisins)
The problem is the partly the obvious deficiencies of the islamic faith, and it’s total irrelevance to anything. Furthermore the practice of “bismah”, which includes jihad, which means that muslims must do all they can, peacefully *AND* violently to enforce sharia ON OTHERS (by contrast a Christian is responsible to behave in a certain way HIMSELF, and is only to use violence to defend himself or others (e.g. the crusades, which were a response to the muslim’s commander message to Rome that in Jerusalem they stood “up to their knees in the blood of Christians, and were coming for all of you”)).
Terror in islam (”repression” in English, literally, or “military domination”, the reason this sounds stupid is that there is no comparative english word).
Terror in islam has a very long history. The prophet of islam, a paedophile, a thief, personally started 14 wars, only 1 of which is claimed to have been defensive. He personally comitted at least 5 religious genocides, totalling certainly 12000 dead. Every muslim in the world tells their children that they first and foremost must imitate this person.
And if this, the utter stupidity of this muslim way of doing things seems impossible, remember how many people climed aboard the “unsinkable” titanic.
Just to clarify a bit further, in reality there are extremely few people who can read the language of the original quran. None of them muslims, however, as they aren’t interested in the (obviously pre-islamic) past they’d need to study to learn the language. The quran is in Syrian-Arameic. A language that is currently only understood by a tiny amount of Christian and Jewish scolars, maybe 10 people world-wide. Google “Christopher Luxenberg” for an interesting perspective, and an illustration of the limits of even our understanding of that language.
92. Some random dude - October 21st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Tom, where does the Quran say to kill; people. Also back up the rest of your allegations like I have told you to do in our exchanges.
93. Some random dude - October 21st, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Mark your high school student you should know not to trust someone like Tom who makes all these allegations with out providing references.
94. geronimo - October 21st, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Mark
This is a dangerous time time to try to understand islam. You will either find rabid haters like Tomc who quote lines of Quran taken out of context in the sole belief that their obfuscations will confuse those who just want to know, or you will find other people who cry that they are the most maligned and ill treated people in the world, not realizing that they have bought this fate upon themselves The truth is open to many interpretations.
Maany muslims are turning to terrorism and it has nothing to do with Quran and everything to do with how a simple mind can be manipulated using autosuggestion and faith…The Quran becomes just a tool..as Bible was and as any other scripture will be. The sad fact is that even educated muslims are falling for it…However there are many many other people who oppose this and the only reason you dont find them speaking out is that they want tot lead their lifeo ntheir own terms and not get dragged into this ugly mire.
I am a muslim and as far as i know a jihad is a quest for perfection internally…a jihad is to destroy all the evils that exist within you so that you can be totally pure…
Compassion as an emotion is stressed upon very much in Islam. and the word itself appears far more than jihad
Atleast this is what i believe…Tomc obviously has a phd or something in Islamic studies so he can quote scriptures and all….but in the end it is what we believe and what our faith lies in that matters…
i suggest you visit some neutral sites… dont know of any actually…ppl are too worked up on this subject