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Top 10 Most Evil Men

Jamie Frater . . . Comments

The most unfortunate aspect to researching this list was the realization that that I could do a top 100 most evil men and still have a multitude of people for a second list! The selection of this list is based not upon death tolls, but upon the general actions, and impact, or brutality of the people. From bad to worst, here are the top 10 evil men in history.

10. Attila The Hun


Attila was Khan of the Huns from 434 until his death in 453. He was leader of the Hunnic Empire which stretched from Germany to the Ural River and from the Danube River to the Baltic Sea. In much of Western Europe, he is remembered as the epitome of cruelty and rapacity. An unsuccessful campaign in Persia was followed in 441 by an invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire, the success of which emboldened Attila to invade the West. He passed unhindered through Austria and Germany, across the Rhine into Gaul, plundering and devastating all in his path with a ferocity unparalleled in the records of barbarian invasions and compelling those he overcame to augment his mighty army. Attila drowned in his own blood on his wedding night.

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9. Maximilien Robespierre


Maximilien Robespierre was a leader of the French revolution and it was his arguments that caused the revolutionary government to murder the king without a trial. In addition, Robespierre was one of the main driving forces behind the reign of terror, a 10 month post-revolutionary period in which mass executions were carried out. The Terror took the lives of between 18,500 to 40,000 people, with 1,900 being killed in the last month. Among people who were condemned by the revolutionary tribunals, about 8 percent were aristocrats, 6 percent clergy, 14 percent middle class, and 70 percent were workers or peasants accused of hoarding, evading the draft, desertion, rebellion, and other purported crimes.

In an act of coincidental justice, Robespierre was guillotined without a trial in 1794.

8. Ruhollah Khomeini

Khomeini 78

Ayatollah Khomeini was the religious leader of Iran from 1979 to 1989. In that time he implemented Sharia Law (Islamic religious law) with the Islamic dress code enforced for both men and women by Islamic Revolutionary Guards and other Islamic groups. Opposition to the religious rule of the clergy or Islam in general was often met with harsh punishments. In a talk at the Fayzieah School in Qom, August 30, 1979, Khomeini said:

“Those who are trying to bring corruption and destruction to our country in the name of democracy will be oppressed. They are worse than Bani-Ghorizeh Jews, and they must be hanged. We will oppress them by God’s order and God’s call to prayer.”

In the 1988 massacre of Iranian prisoners, following the People’s Mujahedin of Iran operation Forough-e Javidan against the Islamic Republic, Khomeini issued an order to judicial officials to judge every Iranian political prisoner and kill those who would not repent anti-regime activities. Many say that thousands were swiftly put to death inside the prisons. The suppressed memoirs of Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri reportedly detail the execution of 30,000 political activists.

After eleven days in a hospital for an operation to stop internal bleeding, Khomeini died of cancer on Saturday, June 04, 1989, at the age of 86.

7. Idi Amin Dada

Amin 1809 Narrowweb  300X423,0

Idi Amin was an army officer and president of Uganda. He took power in a military coup in January 1971, deposing Milton Obote. His rule was characterized by human rights abuses, political repression, ethnic persecution, extra judicial killings and the expulsion of Indians from Uganda. The number of people killed as a result of his regime is unknown; estimates range from 80,000 to 500,000. On August 4, 1972, Amin issued a decree ordering the expulsion of the 60,000 Asians who were not Ugandan citizens (most of them held British passports). This was later amended to include all 80,000 Asians, with the exception of professionals, such as doctors, lawyers and teachers. Amin was eventually overthrown, but until his death, he held that Uganda needed him and he never expressed remorse for the abuses of his regime.

6. Leopold II of Belgium


Leopold II was King of Belgium from 1865-1909. With financial support from the government, Leopold created the Congo Free State, a private project undertaken to extract rubber and ivory in the Congo region of central Africa, which relied on forced labour and resulted in the deaths of approximately 3 million Congolese. The regime of the Congo Free State became one of the more infamous international scandals of the turn of the century. The area of land privately owned by the King was an area 76 times larger than Belgium, which he was free to rule as a personal domain through his private army, the Force Publique. Leopold’s rubber gatherers tortured, maimed and slaughtered until at the turn of the century, the conscience of the Western world forced Brussels to call a halt.

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5. Pol Pot

Polpot Vzoom

Pol Pot was the leader of the Khmer Rouge and the Prime Minister of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, having been de facto leader since mid-1975. During his time in power Pol Pot imposed an extreme version of agrarian communism where all city dwellers were relocated to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions is estimated to have killed around 2 million Cambodians (approximately one third of the population). His regime achieved special notoriety for singling out all intellectuals and other “bourgeois enemies” for murder. The Khmer Rouge committed mass executions in sites known as the Killing Fields. The executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, executions were often carried out using hammers, axe handles, spades or sharpened bamboo sticks.

4. Vlad ?epe?


Vlad III of Romania (also known as Vlad the Impaler) was Prince of Wallachia three times between 1448 and 1476. Vlad is best known for the legends of the exceedingly cruel punishments he imposed during his reign and for serving as the primary inspiration for the vampire main character in Bram Stoker’s popular Dracula novel. In Romania he is viewed by many as a prince with a deep sense of justice. His method of torture was a horse attached to each of the victim’s legs as a sharpened stake was gradually forced into the body. The end of the stake was usually oiled, and care was taken that the stake not be too sharp; else the victim might die too rapidly from shock. Wikipedia has an article that describes, in great details, the methods of Vlad’s cruelty. The list of tortures he is alleged to have employed is extensive: nails in heads, cutting off of limbs, blinding, strangulation, burning, cutting off of noses and ears, mutilation of sexual organs (especially in the case of women), scalping, skinning, exposure to the elements or to animals, and boiling alive. There are claims that on some occasions ten thousand people were impaled in 1460 alone.

3. Ivan IV of Russia


Ivan IV of Russia, also know as Ivan the Terrible, was the Grand Duke of Muscovy from 1533 to 1547 and was the first ruler of Russia to assume the title of Tsar. In 1570, Ivan was under the belief that the elite of the city of Novgorod planned to defect to Poland, and led an army to stop them on January 2. Ivan’s soldiers built walls around the perimeter of the city in order to prevent the people of the city escaping. Between 500 and 1000 people were gathered every day by the troops, then tortured and killed in front of Ivan and his son. In 1581, Ivan beat his pregnant daughter-in-law for wearing immodest clothing, causing a miscarriage. His son, also named Ivan, upon learning of this, engaged in a heated argument with his father, which resulted in Ivan striking his son in the head with his pointed staff, causing his son’s (accidental) death.

2. Adolf Hitler


Adolf Hitler was appointed Chancellor of Germany in 1933, becoming “Führer” in 1934 until his suicide in 1945. By the end of the second world war, Hitler’s policies of territorial conquest and racial subjugation had brought death and destruction to tens of millions of people, including the genocide of some six million Jews in what is now known as the Holocaust. On 30 April 1945, after intense street-to-street combat, when Soviet troops were spotted within a block or two of the Reich Chancellory, Hitler committed suicide, shooting himself while simultaneously biting into a cyanide capsule.

1. Josef Stalin

Joseph Stalin

Stalin was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union’s Central Committee from 1922 until his death in 1953. Under Stalin’s leadership, the Ukraine suffered from a famine (Holodomor) so great it is considered by many to be an act of genocide on the part of Stalin’s government. Estimates of the number of deaths range from 2.5 million to 10 million. The famine was caused by direct political and administrative decisions. In addition to the famine, Stalin ordered purges within the Soviet Union of any person deemed to be an enemy of the state. In total, estimates of the total number murdered under Stalins reign, range from 10 million to 60 million.

Bonus: Emperor Hirohito of Japan


Hirohito was the Emporer of Japan from 1926 to 1989. In 1937, Japanese troops committed the war crime that is now known as the Rape of Nanking (the then Capital of China, now known as Nanjing). The duration of the massacre is not clearly defined, although the violence lasted well into the next six weeks, until early February 1938. During the occupation of Nanjing, the Japanese army committed numerous atrocities, such as rape, looting, arson and the execution of prisoners of war and civilians. A large number of women and children were also killed, as rape and murder became more widespread. The death toll is generally considered to be between 150,000 and 300,000. The Wikipedia article contains images and descriptions of the atrocities committed.

Notable Omissions: Oliver Cromwell, Mao Tse-tung, Kim Il-sung, Caligula

Jamie Frater

Jamie is the owner and chief-editor of Listverse. He spends his time working on the site, doing research for new lists, and collecting oddities. He is fascinated with all things historic, creepy, and bizarre.

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  • dalandzadgad

    the introduction is saddening part..

    and where is Dick Cheney?

    • Alex

      where the hell is Mao?

      • jasminevirk

        having tea wid hu jin tao where do ya think ?in heaven?

      • Eric Li

        What the fuck? Mao didn’t kill no one. And most of china supported Mao. Why do you think they won over the Taiwainese Gov. with a boat and some bullets. You need to do some research. Mao did a wonderful job. Although some of his decisions like being communist sounds bad, it had to be that way in the beginning with a billion people population. Think about it! Research. Do it!

        • hon chens

          mao killed most people then any other leader

          • Mao did not kill anyone, what you are believing is either American propaganda or rebellion countries against Communist China.

        • DD

          mao started the cultural revolution, the Great Leap forward. millions starved to death because of these events. what is worse is that the regime does not acknowledge these atrocities, rather than coming to turn with history, they buried it from its people. Ever nation has its darkest hours, but whats more valuable is learning it so we won’t doom to repeat it

          • Walton Wung

            Bullshit my boy. I even went to China myself for a vacation and asked at least a couple of hundreds of people of what they think of Mao Zedong for my own personal curiosity. I’m estimating that at least 92% said he promoted equality among others. The rest of the 8% said he was a bad leader, because they said everybody get’s the same payment even though others work harder. None stated that he was a population murderer. I’m pretty sure that what you’re hearing about the “Great Leap Forward” and all that crap is really American and foreign propaganda.

          • Rorschach

            It was a mistake. He was not proud of it like the evil men in the list. HIs experiments failed. He was sorry for it.

        • Michelle

          This has to be one of the most idiotic posts I’ve ever read.

        • chroma

          Get your facts right.. Mao didnt intentionally kill people.. but his policies of collectivisation and communism wiped out 20+millions of people from different parts of china… Recently Communist party of china released a press report that his policies were stupid…

          • vazirmukhtar

            Saying Mao killed no one is almost like saying that Stalin killed no one. After all, the people Stalin sent to camps near the Arctic Circle died on their own. No one forced them to do so.

            Of course, President Assad has killed no one either.

            Do you suggest that President Obama has killed no one because he remained in Washington, DC, while members of the US armed forces were fighting in Afghanistan?

        • Rorschach

          You are right

      • José Alvarado

        Did he start a personal holocaust? Stalin did

      • Kiyomi Ming Xia

        Mao Zedong should be on this list…..period.

        If you wish to argue on his placement in the top 3, or perhaps 5, okay. But i think there’s very little reasonable debate to be had as to why he SHOULDN’T be on the list. His direct actions, and brutal terror, resulted in between 40-79 million deaths.

        Sure, a lot of chinese loved him….But the germans loved hitler…….your point?

        Now to the Anti-American people……..come on, get real.

        You might hate America, and their wealth, and the fact that they’re the superpower and your country isn’t, or the fact that you’re dirt poor, so you hate the government and everyone who makes more money then you……and you might be anti-war, but to say any president, from Washington, to Obama, should be on this list or anything close to the top ten, you’re just being silly. Absolutely, insanely, silly. Get Real…..America hasn’t set out to conquer the world with bloodshed and violence for several decades! They’re not invading Canada, or Mexico…… Matter a fact, under bush AND obama, Mexicans are over flooding into America! And MEXICAN violence, is flooding the borders.

        And before anyone jumps on America being in the middle east, they’re there for a reason………say oil all you want, but they were attacked on 9/11 and they had to respond.

        But i know the 9/11 truthers think they killed 3000+ of their people just for some freakin oil……which after a decade they haven’t gotten seeing as how gas prices are insane there, but WHATEVER. Lets say 9/11 moronic-truthers are right……if the US government, was as evil as any of these guys in the top 10…..fuck a war, they’d nuke the middle east and turn it into a graveyard of 100’s of MILLIONS…….so again, COMEEEEEE ONNNNNNNNNN.

        You have to be reasonable when you say shit….and just because you’re mad about, or disagree with, the war in Iraq [which i do totally], you can’t go around saying shit like Bush or Chenney or Obama is just as bad as Attila The Hun, Vlad, and so on. It makes you seem highly unreasonable.

        • Stone

          Sincerely, Kiyomi Ming Xia, I understand where you’re coming from on most of the U.S. Presidents. Candidly, though, I do sometimes wonder about Truman, not so much about Heroshima, since it is barely possible that the Japanese may have just fought on until no one was alive there at all. So maybe Heroshima played some salutary role in changing that.

          But what bothers me more concerns the aftermath. Heroshima was on Aug. 6, and on either the 7th or 8th, the Soviets mobilized to take on Japan. Then, it was apparently on the 8th that the Emperor, citing (I believe?) both Heroshima and the Soviet invasion, wrote to the Prime Minister that the time for talks was now. Essentially, the Japanese had blinked. Heroshima and the Soviet mobilization had made its point.

          Then, on the 9th, we bombed Nagasaki……….. I truly feel that that was a gratuitous gesture. There was plenty of intelligence that the Japanese were already on the run. They didn’t want the Russians coming and they didn’t want another Heroshima — but they got another Heroshima anyway. And while I still don’t feel that Truman deserves to be in the worst ten, I do feel that Nagasaki was gratuitous and that it’s Nagasaki that makes the idea of Truman membership in the worst twenty or the worst thirty not that outlandish.

          With respect,


          • Kiyomi Ming Xia

            You’re right. Nagasaki was likely not needed since Hiroshima DEFINITELY got the point across that the USA wasn’t joking around.
            I really do get that Point of view, and concur with it. But that was after the USA was attacked. A little ruthless to nuke Nagasaki, yes, but it was a war…..and the USA was on the defense…..we can’t punish people because their defense was far harsher then the offense. The offense had no business starting something, if they didn’t want to deal with the might of the person they attacked in the first place.

            Thankfully now, we all know nukes shouldn’t belong in wars, and are the last of the last resorts……which is why the US hasn’t nuked afghanistan or iran.[even though i still think if talks with North Korea and Iran dont’ work out, there will eventually be a nuclear war….started by the middle east, china/russia, or NK, and not any of the allied-countries]

            So yeah, while the USA didn’t have to bomb Nagasaki, Japan started something they mistakenly thought they could finish….and they pissed the USA off with Pearl Harbor….which wasn’t deserved.

            In general, war is such a pointless pig-headed thing……
            For all our intelligence, human beings can really be simple-minded, overly-prideful, and violent, creatures. =(

          • J

            Something people who criticize the decision to bomb Nagasaki universally seem to forget is the fact that World War II was total war, meaning every part of the belligerent countries was involved in the war effort. Civilian populations were the labor pool used to manufacture weapons, munitions, and other materiel. In Japan’s case, the civilian population was being trained for an all-out defense of every square foot of the country. And can you imagine how decimated the land, infrastructure, and population would have been by a protracted conventional campaign?

            Think about this: in preparation for the massive casualties the American military expected to sustain during a conventional invasion of, and battle for the Japanese islands, a huge number of Purple Heart medals (awarded to U.S. service members wounded or killed in combat) were manufactured.

            We are still using the Purple Hearts from that lot.

            That’s how many were expected to be wounded or killed.

            When President Truman was faced with the choice of staggering American losses or massive yet controlled Japanese deaths using a weapon whose psychological impact far outweighed its firepower, I don’t think there was any other decision he could have made. The delay after the Hiroshima bombing clearly signaled indecisiveness on the part of the Japanese leadership. He couldn’t give them time to process and regroup. It had to be ended.

          • Stone

            “J” writes —

            “The delay after the Hiroshima bombing clearly signaled indecisiveness on the part of the Japanese leadership. He couldn’t give them time to process and regroup. It had to be ended.”

            With respect, what happened — especially in those days when news traveled slower — was no delay at all. As I already pointed out in my previous, Hirohito wrote his directive for immediate talks a mere two days later! That is not a delay. Hiroshima had done its work. There would be no ground war. You do not address the timeline I supplied in my previous. Why don’t you?



          • Sethman

            After Hiroshima the Japanese were still clinging to the “honourable warrior” mentality. They hoped that Hiroshima was some sort of accident that the Americans took credit for. If they had been 100% sure that the Americans had planned out the bomb, they would have surrendered on the 7th of August, not waited 3 more days. Nagasaki was necessary to prove that Hiroshima was no fluke. And the way I see it, the bombs stopped millions more Americans, Japanese, and Russians from dying. Its the sad truth that the people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki needed to die so that millions of others wouldn’t have to. The horrors of war…

        • Brendan J

          truly you are either seriously dis informed and brainwashed or your spreadin the disinfo yourself
          your american figurehead presidents might seem innocent to you
          but every one of them has blood on their hands,subtly covered or
          sufficiently distracted by “dirt poor thirld world leaders” as you offensively
          what you are sayin is dangerous cuz ppl are gullible enough to believe you#so WAKE THE FUCK UP,COP ON TO YOURSELF AND FACE THE HIDDEN DICTATORS IN YOUR HOMELAND

          • it

            Do you even know what the word dictator means?? A dictator is someone who has absolute power and gives his people no rights. And Americans have rights. As long as America is a democracy, there will never be any dictators in America.

          • vietgamer45

            Actually, the USA is not a democracy and never has been. We are a republic. The USA is too populous to be a pure democracy.

          • Elif

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        • Corey

          Only president I think is that despicable(but not to the point of being on this list) is Andrew Jackson.

        • Walton Wung

          Bullsh*t my boy. I even went to China myself for a vacation and asked at least a couple of hundreds of people of what they think of Mao Zedong for my own personal curiosity. I’m estimating that at least 92% said he promoted equality among others. The rest of the 8% said he was a bad leader, because they said everybody get’s the same payment even though others work harder. None stated that he was a population murderer. I’m pretty sure that what you’re hearing about the “Great Leap Forward” and all that crap is really American and foreign propaganda.

        • BS Mao boosted the Chinese population by 750-900 million people. You believe in American and foreign propaganda, yet you don’t have the sense to be skeptical about it. I actually went to China myself for a vacation and asked the people in China what their daily lifestyle was like under Mao’s rule. All replied that he was the greatest prime minister and that they all had a regular lifestyle(Wake up, work, eat, sleep, etc.) You don’t have to believe me, go to China yourself and write a report of what the citizens think under Mao’s rule. Regarding your opinion in present, you would be surprised by the results of the Chinese citizens.

        • Rick

          I have a question. What about the American Indians who were wiped out, somewhere around 100 million. Is it safe to say America had a part in this?

        • Steve Mc J

          And why do you think terrorists are willing to die to hurt america?
          Because america has a violent history from killing lots of the real owners of america, vietnam , japan and now the midlle east. America has killed so many

        • Samuel Evans

          Your mom should be on this list.

        • Rossenberg

          Kiyomi Ming Xia, your mom should be on this list…PERIOD.

        • Richard Bacher

          During the 4 years that the Taliban held power in Afghanistan, Al Queda trained 40,000 militants in the art of making and using explosive devisces, while instilling in them the hatred to do so. Those 40,000 then spread out to their home countries to train others. Al Queda then paid for thousands of them to go to Iraq, Syria ,Yemen, Nigeria, Mali,, Indonesia, etc. You wil be hearing from them and their likes for the next 100 years, so be prepared. Only the U. S. and NATO and their allies have moved to stop this worldwide menace. The rest of the world sits and waits for it to go away. It won’t.

          • sabir

            i am so sorry on ur comments………..taliban and al-qaida is the creation of Free masons and the american CIA…………for russia. when they r fighting for USA they are hero,s and mujahideen but now when they r fighting for there rights now they r terrorists. who give the right to america and nato to invades in free countries. USA Israel and all there allies have atomic bombs but if korea and iran have the same then USA have the prblms. 90 prcnt of arms are produced in USA. lol think about it. USA and all the westrn media have double standards they cant face the reality…………………but very soon fall of the USA will be occured. Put the presidents of USA in the list they are all in this list. there is no holocost its all fake. its a story based on lie created by free masons. how many ppls are killed in Iraq, afghanistan, bosnia and Libiya only for the stakes of america

      • Name

        i dont know where them but i am afraid of them

    • and ariel sharon?

      • daniel

        You mean Arafat right? Or Assad who is killing his people daily? The only bad thing sharon did was to kick Jews out of their homes in Gush Katif. All that giving in to terror did was lead to over 10,000 rockets fired by the “Palestinians”

    • YahooSerious

      I am one of the biggest Bush-bashers i know, but at least I base my bashing in fact and truth. His administration sucked balls bigtime, there's enough material to use against America for the next 5 presidents. Perhaps he'd be #11.

    • thedaroach

      although i agree with most who say bush and cheney should not make this list. I do however feel that their has been no greater evil entity in history than the american goverment. I love this country and value our civil libertys but the violence we bring upon others is truelly amazing. No other civilization has enslaved persecuted, detained, nuked, "liberated" any other group of people like we have. We have done so and have convinced ourself that we are doing so with a greater good in mind. Now i fear that our country will become so afraid of terrorism that we will eventually begin to mistreat the very citizens who make this great country so great. Malcolm X wants stated something to the affect of the chickens coming home to roost. This is a very real threat that this nation faces. Now i find great hope on obama. Some might disagree with the man as a man but what he represents in this country reaches well beyond what he could ever do.

      • laurence

        dude awesome also enslaved people the african-american

      • regdwight

        Thank you for this exhibit of massive stupidity.

      • Amanda

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    • jackdaniels63

      If he was up your ass you would know.

    • Ra, the sun god

      For all the “Mao didn’t kill anyone” crowd. That is the worst lie I’ve ever heard in my life. In fact, Mao has killed more than anyone in history. I also know from past experience that China actually hires people to spread propaganda on online forums, chatrooms, and websites like this.

      Although I’m not sure that these “Moa didn’t kill anyone” people are the same people that are hired, I would certainly not discount the possibility. Either that, or they didn’t bother to do their research, and felt an unecessary amount of outrage for a leader that is netorious for propoganda and violation of human rights.

      “Most historians agree that excess deaths (the difference between projected and actual demographic data) total at least 20 million (with more than two-thirds of these deaths occurring in 1960 alone); high estimates stand at 65 million (in 1957 China’s population was 646 million).”

      So, If Stalin had 2.5 to 10 million, I’m thinking Mao Zedong come in first with 20 million to 65 million.

      Yes, he has killed AT THE VERY LEAST, twice as much as the second worst genocidal leader. At most TWENTY SIX TIMES MORE.

      • Walton Wung

        Bullshit my boy. I even went to China myself for a vacation and asked at least a couple of hundreds of people of what they think of Mao Zedong for my own personal curiosity. I’m estimating that at least 92% said he promoted equality among others. The rest of the 8% said he was a bad leader, because they said everybody get’s the same payment even though others work harder. None stated that he was a population murderer. I’m pretty sure that what you’re hearing about the “Great Leap Forward” and all that crap is really American and foreign propaganda.

        • Alex

          Who the hell goes on vacation to ask people what they thought of a ruler? And seriously, “at least92%”? How did you come up with that number?

      • Samuel Evans

        Your mom is a lie.

    • J

      I never cease to be amazed at the sheer, gibbering idiocy of these wild-eyed claims that BushCheneyHalliburtonZOMG11!!11 is on par with the people being listed here. You nitwits utterly nuke whatever point you think you’re making when you trot out your ridiculous hyperbole.

      If–IF–you accept the Lancet estimates of 655,000 deaths in Iraq (and you really shouldn’t, since there were such serious methodological flaws in the study, making its conclusions wildly out of step with all other studies), that figure is so far below the mass murderers’ body counts listed here as to be insignificant in comparison. If Bush were a mass murderer, he would have effortlessly gassed, poisoned, or bombed the entire country (something Sadaam Hussein certainly tried to do to the Kurds, which is conveniently omitted in these rants). And beyond that minor problem, even assuming the Lancet study is accurate, you still can’t pin it on the chests of President Bush and his administration. What would be the logic?

      “Well, see, if we hadn’t invaded Iraq, then we wouldn’t have forced these people to go to all the trouble of blowing each other up, shooting up each other’s weddings/mosques/parades, and otherwise slaughtering each other.”

      What kind of ridiculous tripe is this? If an Iraqi/Syrian/Lebanese/Saudi conspires to attack Iraqi civilians, makes all the necessary plans, constructs an explosive device, transports it to the target site, and detonates it, how in the world is that crime then laid at the feet of the United States government, its leaders, its military, or its general population?

      Frankly, it’s my opinion that all the America-bashing in general, and the Bush-hatred in particular, is a combination of mass hysteria and the functional product of the world’s hurt feelings in the face of America’s overwhelming military, cultural, and (to a lesser extent) financial dominance. Call it tall poppy syndrome or whatever, but it’s a social pathology that has little logical basis. The ranting conspiracy theorists who pass for objective media figures in other countries feed their audiences a steady diet of poorly-sourced innuendo and yellow journalism that reminds me of nothing so much as the hilarious yet terrifying Arab paranoia that Israel had trained sharks to kill tourists at Egyptian Red Sea resorts in order to harm the Egyptian economy.

      It should be clear to any thinking person that we are not dealing with rational objections to the ways in which American power is projected. We are dealing with superstition and magical thinking and hysteria, borne of deeply rooted inferiority and embarrassment. Someone has got to get in front of the baying pack and redirect all this hatred into something productive, because clearly it is consuming the minds and spirits of a LOT of people.

  • Loose Cannon

    Here they come; The Bush/Cheney/Rove-Haters! With their view of evil so skewed, they will hysterically compare legendary evil people who killed millions, like Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalin to liberating millions from Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Whatever you politically views might be, these are the most evil people who have ever walked the earth. They're names are synonymous with condoned murder, torture, and rape of thousands of people. To even suggest Bush/Cheney/Rove are in the same league is a sure sign of mental illness.

    Seek mental health treatment, Dalandzadgad, if you really believe Cheney should be on this list.

    • stan

      what are you? retarded…oh wait…all americans are

      • pinkopaque22

        We're not ALL retarded, and let me prove my point here.
        "Whatever you politically views might be, these are the most evil people who have ever walked the earth. They're names are synonymous with condoned murder, torture, and rape of thousands of people."- REALLY loose cannon- Bush/Cheney/Rove aren't responsible for anything like this? OR, are you just being complacent and mentally ill yourself? OR do you watch way too much Fox News and believe everything you hear?
        My suggestion to you is to look at the facts, and when those are hidden behind the secrets of the CIA and the Bush Family, dig deeper. You will be SHOCKED at how evil these men are. Think, with your brain, not your TV.
        That is all.

      • Debauchee69

        Stan da Man;

        We Americans are NOT Retarded—ENGLISHMEN are RETARDED. We Americans are all HYPERCRITES…Whatdaya Expect? Our country was founded by slave owning white men who fought a war of Independence because they YEARNED to breath free!!!

        FYI, we Americans LIVE for Hyperbole. In San Francisco, I was once chased down the street by a waiter who complained 'YOU ARE WORST THAN HITLER' because I only left a 10% tip. I had to correct the food server "Adolf Hitler was a Vegan and there has never been a Vegan born yet who has left a tip at a resturant!!!

        • Ash

          Hitler was neither a vegan (where'd you get that outa??) or a vegetarian actually. Research please.
          And vegans don't leave tips?? How do you surmise that?? Again, research.

        • no were not retarded, and also there are more inbred and physically disabled people in usa then england, and also yous arent americans.englands been a officical nation longer but only issue we have is our political and goverment system is stuck in the 19th century. and also woopty do you americans arent all like that just knobs are. also i hope u get beaten up.

      • Katlyn

        That’s not prejudice….what an amazingly intelligent statement to make.

      • J

        Here’s another tolerant, peaceful citizen of the world. So moral and righteous he can judge entire nations.

        Also, apparently so open-minded his brains have fallen out…..

    • Bob

      Change liberate into murder and you’re right on the money.

  • Bill Coffin

    Excellent list. Hitler often gets the nod for being the ultimate incarnation of modern evil, but it's often overlooked that Stalin was directly responsible for killing many more than Hitler. This is not to say that Hitler deserves any sympathy – the guy was a monster, and one can only hope that he and Stalin are forced to bunk together in the Inferno.

    I'd also like to point out that insisting that Cheny be part of this list is incredibly shortsighted. Regardless of one's feelings about the current Bush administration, it is important that we maintain a proper perspective on this. Saying that Cheney makes Stalin look like Bambi is hyperbole of the first order. I think that until somebody provokes a nuclear war, NOBODY will make Stalin look like Bambi.

    • LIO

      Stalin killed about 60 million, Hitler killed 50 million. Stalin killed more, but Hitler's motive was worse.

      • Juri

        I'd say Stalin was worse; at least people knew that Hitler was evil. However, Stalin hid every one of his evil deeds under a blanket of secrecy, and even shook hands with the Allies' leaders, pretending to be good ol' Uncle Joe.

        Plus, look up his photo thing. That seriously creeps me out. "You have wronged me, so I will have you executed and then cut you out of photos!" It's as tho the person never existed. O.o

      • Steve Jones

        Stalin didn’t kill 60 million, how ridiculous. Hitler was responsible for 25 million dead Russians, 6.5 million dead Jews and Gypsies, around 2 million other dead Europeans and up to a million dead otherwise. He was however responsible for the worst in human nature, the theory of the superman/ubermensch, and the derivative theory of the untermensch. His plan was to annihilate a further 30 million Russians to make room for Germans on the plains of Russia and Ukraine. The Russians, Stalin, alternatively welcomed Jews into their army and society. Stalin was probably directly responsible for the collectivisation of the Russian and Ukrainian peasant which accounted for up to 20 million or so deaths due to starvation, but this was light years away from the industrialised death factories of AH and Himmler, Kaltenbrunner, etc. Get your facts straight.

        • Wake

          this list is obviously biased.

      • stupididiot

        ya know what i dont think that hitler was sooooo evil he didnt bathe in blood or do anything like that okay fine he was VERY misguided but its the germans who put such an idiot at such a high position its not really his fault oh yeah if you disagree we all have had one crzy fantasy for example ruling the world,making everyone bow at your feet etc but he was one of the many who got to implement his crazy fantasy

        • Johnny6x6

          I agree, hitlers main intention behind all the gas chambers and digging your own grave is hitler was sick of everybody fighting and if he had the only race the fighting and bitching would stop. A utopia in a Edgar Allen Poe sortta way

      • Name

        Stalin had very dumb motives and usually just killed out of paranoia

    • Canadian

      Tecnically, Hitler, in starting the second world war, caused the deaths of 65+ million (and thats with conservitive estimates on the Holocaust and other mass murders)

      As for Hirohito, He was an airheaded figure, used by the military to justify their actions, not the supreme leader of Japan the Americans claimed he was

      Finally, as a Canadian, I can give an objective view on the Bush administration:

      If stupidity was a crime then they would be number 3 at least

      • enyar

        your about half right, but you are proof of how dumb canandians are

        • Bob

          You just showed how much of a dumbass you are, generalizing is for children, bigots, and idiots.

  • Absolutely ridiculous… You seem to have forgotten the chaps that dropped the A-bomb my friend. Oh, yes, I forgot. They were American.. Dear, dear..

    • BDakota95

      Did you know the Japanese and the Germans were trying to take over the earth? did you know they were all for destroying all of the western world so they could take control? If that bomb wasn't dropped the axis may have won the war. If they didn't win, not dropping the bomb would have prolonged the war and killed millions more. If you are against Russia, British and Americans winning the war, then you are the enemy and should have been on the Nagasaki or Hiroshima bases when the bombs dropped.

      • Guest

        We would have won very soon, anyway. It was not necessary. The real issue is that we killed civilians en masse to save soldiers–this is inexcusable.

        • Del

          Japanese civilian deaths in WWII 500,000 to 1 million.
          Chinese civilian deaths in WWII 7 million to 16 million.
          How many Chinese civilian deaths were prevented by the swift end to the war? There would have been more Japanese civilian deaths if we had to fire bomb Japan the same as Germany. Followed by a ground war there would have been more military deaths on both sides without a speedy end to the war.

          • Eli

            Actually, we did firebomb Japan.

          • José Alvarado

            I am sorry but bombing civilians to defeat Japan is unacceptable. At least bomb the military not civilians.

      • stupididiot

        you do realize that the atomic bomb almost wiped out the entire race of japanese people right amercans may have died other people my have died but there was no danger to a whole genetic gene pool

        • NOTastupididiot

          lol – where are you getting this? The bombs didn’t even come close to “wiping out the Japanese”

        • it

          killing not even 300,000 people is killing an entire race of hundreds of millions of people??

        • Hillbilly

          You say that like it’s bad

      • José Alvarado

        Did you know they were gonna loose anyway? It was only a matter of months before Japan was defeated. 2 superpowers and the ex-most powerful nation on Earth ever against Japan whose tactic of kamikaze airplanes would deplete their supply of airplanes soon.

    • ir

      Did you know that the Japanese killed over 30 million Asians???

      • José Alvarado

        How many has the USA killed? Exactly

        • johny

          don’t fuck with the USA! or those numbers will greatly increase. at least we don’t kill our own people. we need more presidents like roosevelt.

    • José Alvarado

      There is no other nation that has done more attrocities than the USA. you are right. but there is no particular person in the USA who is the most evil.

      • J

        No way, Jose. If we’re so evil, what’s our body count?

        Do we beat out the Rape of Nanking?

        How about the Killing Fields?

        How about the Communist Russian starvation of the people of Ukraine?

        How about the idiotic murders of the Cultural Revolution?

        How about the murder of 6 million Jews by the German people?

        How about the Communist gulags Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote about, imprisoning and murdering millions of political dissidents?

        How about the death squads of Che Guevara and Fidel Castro (Communists again), executing people left and right, including pastors and priests?

        How about the near-daily terrorist attacks carried out by radical Muslim terrorists?

        How about the insane violence of the Mexican drug cartels, disemboweling and beheading bloggers who criticize them online?

        Come on, Jose, Arbiter of All Things Moral, you’re wasting a lot of people’s time. Tell us who we need to hate. We need to know which country has committed the most atrocities, so we can bomb them back to the Stone Age. What’s it going to be?

        • Sethman

          True that! I’m tired of people saying how the US is “evil”. I’m Canadian, yet that is ridiculous. America saved the world from totalitarian governments that would have slaughtered millions, and took down communism without any war at all. Of course there were some incidents in Vietnam, but the soldiers were suffering from PTSD, what can you expect?

        • Samuel Evans

          We raped people in Iraq and Afghanistan because of our “nuclear assumptions.”

          • JF

            But what about “your mom”, Evans? Don’t forget “your mom”. LOL. Fukking slimy lefturd troll.

  • tjgrs

    i think it should be noted that even though hirohito allowed and ordered such things in the 30's he also brought about technological expansions and revolutions as well as economic prosperity for japan, later making it the global power it is today. he also always believed that, in world war 2, if america was attacked it would be a "sleeping giant" that would wreck havoc, as we did. he was an amazing man, and i wouldnt consider him absoutly evil, to think evil think Gen. Ulysses Grant who burned crops and homes of soooo many southern farms in the civil war and allowed people to die who were not armed. there are many americans who have ordered the murder of children and women, im no supporter of murder, though that doesnt excuse hirohito at all for his actions, though he was much younger at the time, and imressionable by the generals and his advisors. also vlad the impaler is considered a hero in romania, he helped spread christianity and unite romania as one, though he was one sick bastard. he, i believe, was actually evil but a great military leader, also, hitler was an amzing leader but the most messed up man ever, absolutly evil, same goes for stalin.

    • Jim Katz

      Hirihito did NOT bring economic or tech. prosperity to Japan, you need to brush up on your history. After the US invasion, we rebuilt the country and put millions upon millions of dollars back into their economy…the Japs, who were no longer allowed an army, invested the resources and money the US gave to them in other things…like education and food production. Hirihito was long dead at this point. The only thing this man did for Japan was bring back an ancient warrior code, Bushido. It instilled the belief that dying in battle was a free tickett to eternal paridise….and taking prisoners was disgraceful, hence the Baton Death March. If I knew where Hirihito was burried, I'd piss on his grave 4 times a week!

      • Ranger Joe

        And it was not “Hirihito” who called the US a sleeping giant, it was his best Military Leader that opposed the bombing of Pearl Harbor, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Ol’ “Hirihito” was the one who ordered it.
        AND; It was not Gen. Ulysses Grant who burned the crops and farms. It was Gen Sherman, and he did it to break the back of the Southerner who refused to stop fighting, because they were able to support themselves and the war with those farms. I believe the idea that defines who goes on this list is inaccurate though. War time deaths are evil, but they are the collective evil. We all share the responsibility of our societies actions, no matter how disapprovingly we shake our fist. If we do not approve, then make enough of a point that everyone stops and says thinks. If not, then at least research before pointing your fingers at the keys,or you risk looking dumb and being inconsiquential.

    • Sethman

      Hirohito had little idea what the hell was going on in the world. Tojo held the real power. Hirohito was little more than a puppet leader, who only supported military matters because they held power over him.

  • Joe

    Judas Iscariot should be up here. Personally stabbing God in the back is an act that's hard to beat.

    • Tobias

      allegedly.. and if we look upon this without the religious extremism, we might go as far as say, "he stabbed jesus (the man) in the back, he never stabbed god ;)

      • it

        Joe you are stupid, Judas never stabbed Jesus, he sold Jesus. Judas was NOT evil. He did not know that Jesus would be killed. When he found out that Jesus was going to be killed, he was so upset with himself that he committed suicide. Judas is a misunderstood person.

      • Eli

        Jesus himself is alleged!

    • Mike

      How about Saruman the White from Lord of the Rings if we’re bringing up fictional characters?

  • dalandzadgad: Wow! I didn’t expect the Bush Administration to be mentioned in the first comment (though I was expecting it eventually). You are quite right about the opening paragraph.

  • Hehe – I think I am going to sit back and watch as sparks fly :)

  • dalandzadgad

    “liberating millions”..? yes, that’s exactly how the people in Iraq and Afghanistan feel.

    blunders aside, the intentions of a select few are truly evil. but no point arguing now, only skewed history will tell.

    Dick Cheney makes Stalin look like Bambi.

    • YahooSerious

      Dal…come on, some rationality please. You sound completely disconnected from reality. Ask a Russian who was worse.

    • catchmeifyoucan

      seriously man ? bambi?oh so u have a problem with the stanlin holocaust???????

  • Cat Skyfire

    Thank you for NOT including anyone in the Bush administration. However much some may dislike his politics, we have no real expectation that, next year, they will mystically change the Constitution, publicly shoot all who oppose them, and then declare themselves Dictator for Life. Even the most vehement anti-Bush people have every reason to expect Bush and company to step down when the term is up and the new president is sworn in.

    Part of what makes a list of ‘evil people’ really good is that the scope and ferocity of what occurs can make your stomach turn. Frequently, they don’t care who they hurt, even their ‘own people’ (Robespierre, Stalin…). And the list of horrendous torments permitted, and encouraged, can sicken us without even lots of details. (And when the details are read, it just seems that much worse.)

    A very good list!

    • Matthew

      See the thing is the administration isn't 'magically changing' the constitution or publicly shooting all who oppose them in their country. Nevertheless, they are making up for it by doing this in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its the same thing, they are attacking those who do not have the same political ideology as them. And what makes it even worse than Stalin and Robespierre, was that these people were deemed by their masses to be worthy of leading, and then they screwed them over. The Bush administration is screwing over people who had nothing to do with its rise to power!

  • common sense

    All you liberal head cases need to take your head out of your own ass. Bush and Cheney meant well with invading iraq and afghanistan. While i know you supported the beating and rape of women done in both Iraq and Afghanistan by the hundreds of thousands, those women didint. Get a clue and quit wining like little girls. Its not America's fault that the psychotic musltim fanatics cant get thru their jihadic sculls american forces will leave once they stop attacking.

    • Richard Bacher

      If it were not for the price paid in American blood, there would be no freedom in all the countries that now seek every opportunity to condemn her. England would be speaking German, as would most of Europe, North Africa, and most of the Near East. Asia would be drenched in Japanese, and all the horrible cruelty that it eperienced prior to 1945.

  • Cat: Thanks :)

  • Loose Cannon

    JFRater, you are so evil!:)

    dalandzadgad – “Dick Cheney makes Stalin look like Bambi.”

    Like Bambi? If you really fear that you might be shipped off to a labor camp for your political views, then I suggest you either leave this country or seek mental health treatment.

    It’s obvious you know nothing about Stalin, his purges, the forced labor camps in Siberia he implemented nor the 5 year plans that killed millions.

    Seriously, seek mental health treatment. Dick Cheney does not make Stalin look like Bambi. To say so is ignorant and absurd.

    • coconrodot

      you realize that 2 years ago there was a vote in Russa and Josph Stalin was there 7th Favorite leader of all time so he wasn't that bad of a leader. There have been many other leaders throught out history how have done equaly bad things but scince we all still fear Communisum we see him as evil. I am not sayong that he was very nice but he wasn't the worst person ever

      • Tobias

        Stalin was definetly the worst leader russia has ever had. His paronoia cost millions of his own people the life. The only reason Stalin can be the 7th best, is because since the tsar they've had around 7-8 leaders. Another reason can be that Stalin made Russia (soviet union) the massive power it became through WWII and the cold war. Leaders like Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko isn't really known for doing anything really constructive for Russia.

  • Bill: well put!

  • Loose Cannon

    Bill, I think the fact that someone can actually post “Cheney makes Stalin look like Bambi” proves Cheney isn’t worse then Stalin.

    But some people are so hysterical over the Bush Administration, you can’t convince them otherwise.

    • stan

      some people are retarded (like you) and they think being the world's police force is somehow ok while killing and plundering

  • evan

    Political extremism by both parties is why neither is effective. “We the people…” has been changed to “We the fanatics… (are louder than you, and will do everything possible to silence you). Again, both sides…

  • evan: I guess it proves the old adage about everything in moderation.

  • Travis

    It would interesting to count up the number of people oppressed or killed under British, French, Dutch and American goverments while Stalin was in power.

    • vbffdsf

      You have a point there sir.

      • Chad

        Estimates for America range from 5 to 8

        • moosy

          And under Stalin, estimates range from 16-17…to the power of 6. Yep, America is definitely the evilest of all. The horrors of creating a society where people are free to speak their mind without going to prison…shudder

  • Vanessa

    Just remember….these men could have been more evil than they were.

    • Vivien

      The whole of the European Union, has been nothing but a scab on the world omenocy during 2011, and entering 2012, nothing seems to have significantly altered. They’re still leaking puss on world growth prospects, and that includes countries not directly part of the EU, like the Nordic countries. It’s only Britain that seems to have all their ducks in a row, as 2012 kicks off.America & Canada, might do well to start focusing on expanding trade with the Bric nations specifically South America, who happens to be on their doorstop. And place further investment in Europe on hold, until such time as they manage to resolve their problems.

  • anomie

    to Loose Cannon; The cognitive dissonance going on in your post astounds me:

    “Like Bambi? If you really fear that you might be shipped off to a labor camp for your political views, then I suggest you either leave this country or seek mental health treatment.

    It’s obvious you know nothing about Stalin, his purges, the forced labor camps in Siberia he implemented nor the 5 year plans that killed millions.”

    In the first paragraph you suggest another poster leave the country, and in the second you denounce Stalin for purging people from his country.
    More chillingly, in the USSR many were forced into mental health treatment for criticizing the regime, because the workers state was “necessarily” in the interest of the worker, and so one would have to be crazy to criticize it. And as you said earlier: “To even suggest Bush/Cheney/Rove are in the same league is a sure sign of mental illness.”

    But let me be clear, I agree with you that Bush/Cheney are nowhere near these guys. However, dalandzadgad is entitled to his opinion, and to suggest that he leave the country or enter an asylum because of his opinions is a clear symptom of totalitarianism.

  • evan

    While we’re at it lets add the bombing of Dresden, if you live in the south I’m sure Sherman, Grant, and Lincoln would be the top 3, if you lived in Gaul the top 10 would consist of all Romans, if you were the Red Sox you’d say the Yankees. Look, this is a subjective list created by Jfrater. While America certainly hasn’t be perfect (the interment of the Japanese citizens during WWII comes to mind) I don’t think one single leader has been “evil” enough to take the spot of one of those listed above.

  • Loose Cannon

    Anomie- Why would anyone want to live in a country where they fear being shipped to a prison work camp?

    My suggestion was sincere: If you really live in a country where you fear you will be sent to a prison work camp, ala Stalin’s purges, then move!

    If Cheney does make Stalin look like Bambi, as dalandzadgad has insists, then why would anyone choose to stay there?

    Allow me to put it in another way: If I lived in the USSR during Stalin’s dictatorship and had the freedom to leave, I would certainly have done so. If I truly believed Cheney makes Stalin look like Bambi, then I would leave!

    Also, I’m very sincere when I say that dalandzadgad should seek mental health treatment, but by no means am I advocating he/she be forced to submit to such treatment.

    I would also suggest this treatment for anyone claiming to have had sex with aliens, having shook hands with Bigfoot, or had dinner with Elvis last night.

    • Bob

      Trying to turn your childish insults into a good argument is pathetic.

  • Midian

    I do not agree that Judas should be on this list Joe, if it were Jesus’ destiny to die for our sins then Judas played a important role in that. New Studies and what some believe may be a new Testament show that Judas was Jesus’ most trusted friend and had to be convinced by Jesus to do what he did. Some believe that Judas did this knowing full well he’d burn for it, but in doing so saved humanity. I think its interesting. If this were true that would make Judas one of the Bibles biggest heroes.

    A few people I think would have made great additions to the list,

    Gilles de Rais (spelling)
    Elizabeth Bathory (although it does say men)
    Albert Fish (his numbers werent high but he was pure evil)

  • evan

    clowns, just clowns in general. They’re pure evil and everyone hates them, i mean have you seen the movie IT?

  • Midian

    the clown in It was a front for something much darker, but I agree clowns are creepy.

  • Midian: Bathory is in the notable omissions – Fish is on another list here, Gille de Rais is also on another list here – but I agree, he was evil (though he did repent in the end), and Nero is a well worthwhile addition that I forgot to add to the omissions.

  • gnome: the a-bomb was definitely bad, but it put an end to far worse atrocities.

    evan: I did a top ten phobias – fear of clowns is on it :)

    Joe: Iscariot was definitely evil if you consider that Christ was God, but as many readers will debate that point, he is not included. Thank you for mentioning him though – a worthy addition.

  • Fe


    By whatever name you refer to the supreme deity, more evil has been done in the name of organized religion than by any government or individual in history.

    • Dan

      Well, thats just rubbish. Religion has given many people a reason to live and do good. Shown them how to live a good and moral life. I agree that some, have taken the teachings of their religion whatever it may be, to the extreme, but I would say thats the real problem, fanatacism. Thats still pretty much people, guns dont kill people, people kill people.

    • Rodríguez

      The problem is not religion, it’s religious fanatism and fear of losing power. When you obtain power you become corrupt. That’s the problem with the church and other religious organizations. It’s not the religion itself, is the leaders. Christianity clearly opposes killing, it’s just that the church hasn’t followed that well because of the aformentioned reasons. Besides the list is about people, not organizations, individual religious leaders haven’t kill as much people as here, however I would agree that if this was a list of most evil organizations, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the catholic church (despite me being catholic).

    • J

      I guess it’s just coincidence that the most murderous ideology of the 20th century (Communism) has at its core militant atheism that seeks to destroy religion.

      Marx called religion “the opiate of the masses.”

      The Soviets imprisoned and murdered millions of Jews and Christians for the crime of religious belief.

      The Chinese communists murdered millions of Christians for their faith and continue to persecute them to this day.

      The Cuban communists deliberately targeted religious people for imprisonment, torture, and murder, as did other Communist regimes in Latin America.

      In each of these cases, the murderous advocates of Communism recognized a natural foe in religious people. I’d say being on the side of the religious is a safe play if you want to make a moral decision.

      • Jack

        Hitler was a Catholic. The Pope is Catholic, and is still actively promoting evil.

        If you want to be on the side of morality, discard religion. Religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right (such as killing people for being witches, gay, leaving their house on Saturday, not being a virgin and so on, not to mention enslaving people and being free to kill slaves or rebellious children).
        Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told.
        Yes, there are heaps of atheists that are bad, but there is no true believer of the religions you have spoke of, i.e. as Christianity and Judaism, as well as some you haven’t spoke of such as Islam, that is good. If you truly believe and follow it, then you are a terrorist, nothing more.

        • JF

          ^And this post, ladies and gentlemen, is a prime example of what “an arrogant, super-pretentious ignoramus talking desperately talking out of his ass” looks like. This is also a good reason for why SOUND-minded non-believers should hate “Atheists”. Now do yourselves a favor, and re/read some actual FACTS about history and society, so that next time you return here you can be even further amused by the sheer idiocy of posts like Jack’s.

          • Samuel Evans

            Everyone look at this pompous b1tch all high and mighty, lets have a round of applause for JF. I bet he sucks his own grandfather’s dick and licks his dad’s pussy. GTFO you piece of sh1t fuk. This clear idiot has no pen1s but an infected vag1na. Go back to your other dad’s pussy, you fuking piece of turd. Wait you can’t, cause you’re still sucking your other dad’s pussy.

  • thee hen

    another for the list: General Shiro Ishii.

  • julian

    where are J bush??

  • julian

    thats is a vicious list…the eeveeer same list…

  • m

    i can’t see saddam hossein,person who killed many people of iraq and iran,

    i object to first name in list,ayatollah khomeini was an spiritual man,he was the man who led the evolution of Iran,
    what is your criteria for this ranking?
    if you want to know about him refer to iranian people who know him,not someones who introduce him an evil man just for this reason he opposed them,because their interest endangered after the revolution,if there is shortcomings after the revolution,we shouldn’t blame all on him,
    it is absolutely unfair to call him an evil man.
    check out this link for more information:

    • Rod Irani

      Whatever it is that you are smoking, I want some of it. Khomeini hung his own relatives. No true Persian would ever call him anything less than evil in every sense of the word. Take that from a true Persian! But I would agree that Saddam would be a comfortable addition to the list and I would add Mohammad to it also, for his contributions to evil and making the world a worse place.

  • brennan

    this is a collection of progressive leaders with real bareballsack drive.

  • tony3s: that is true indeed. There might be another if I do a top 10 greatest restaurants – Belgium rates very high with the Michelin guide I hear.

    • tico

      Why didnt you mention columbus or cortez,pizarro,custer?
      They were pretty much a medival version of nazis

      • Kiwi

        Custer was just an idiot, cortez was thrown into an untenable position by one of his subordinates (and you can't really blame him for smallpox).

        • yeah kiwi

  • passingby

    Hirohito? I think Tojo was more evil.

  • Fe

    sorry, forgot to add that according to the bible, the deity himself has killed thousands if not millions through fire, flood and generalized mayhem.

  • Justin

    DUDE, mao has supposedly killed around 30 MILLION… how could he be an honorable mention?
    and what about whoever is in charge of saudi arabia; they have “religous” police that go around and beat people not following the state religon, and millions have been mass murdered

    • alksnf

      dude… you are really idiot for beliving your contry's propaganda!

    • Guest

      No…Mao killed many more…30 million is just the figure for the great leap forward period, which lasted 5 years

      • aynomous

        Mao actually killed 70 million people, not 30 million.

  • m: I really don’t think Khomeni lead the evolution of Iran – I would say he lead it back to the middle ages and made it a country of repression. That is why he is here.

    Justin: Mao is definitely evil, but I put the North Korean on the list because his legacy of Stalinized government continues to this day (though through his son).

    • tom

      actually, the middle east, as a whole, was much better in the middle ages than they are now. modern Islamic thought ( burkas, treating women like shit, etc.) only came about sometime in the 1800's. they made all that stuff up.

  • tony3s

    Yeah, finally a Belgian in one of these lists.

    Too bad it’s this list though.

  • Loose Cannon

    FE: I’m not sure I get your point: God is evil because of the acts committed in his name?

    In that case, I’d surely like to add Karl Marx and Frederick Ingles.

    More cruelty and mass murder have been committed for their ideal of social equability then any figure in history. Between Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, and other socialist/communist movements leaders, at least 100 million deaths can be attributed, not to mention torture, forced famines, and labor camps.

    The Spanish Inquisition, which lasted from 1476 to 1834, killed an estimated 3,000 to 5,000, while Pol Pot alone is said have killed 2 million, 1/3 of the population of Cambodia, in just 3 years, all in the name of social progress.

  • JT

    Why is Cromwell on your ‘honourable mentions’? That man helped liberalise and transform England, as well as win the Dutch War and allow more freedom of speech than ever before.

    As for recommendations, Hitler is a fairly easy choice, but there were worse Nazis such as Goebbles, Goering and Mengele.

    And also, General Shiro Ishii, the man in charge with the most horrific death camp in history: Unit 731

  • JT: ever hear of the Siege of Drogheda or the Sack of Wexford? Outside of England he is considered a tyrant. Thanks for the other mentions – very appropriate. I did consider Mengele for the list but went with Hitler for the same reason I went with Stalin and Hirohito – while they did not directly commit the atrocities, they sanctioned or planned them.

  • jeremy

    So Khomeini made the list. Where’s Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson? Khomeini is no more evil than these guys, he just plays for the enemy team therefore you consider him evil. Partisan religious politics at its worst


    • gib

      don't worry, this site is not a scholarly and intellectual sound research, is only a game. Don't take it too seriously…

  • fs

    I reckon Pablo Escobar was quite an evil fella’ too.

  • Loose Cannon

    Jeremy – While Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are not my favorite people, I hardly consider their buffoonery even close to the tyrannical and murderous level of Khomeini.

    Khomeini was far more evil then Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell. In early 1989, Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for the assassination of Salman Rushdie. This wasn’t just an opinion, that Rushdie should die, but rather a religious edict that “it is incumbent on every Muslim to employ everything he has got, his life and wealth, to send him to Hell.”

    While this alone doesn’t make him among the most evil, it is certainly head and shoulders above Robertson or Falwell.

  • es

    i cant expect this from your site.
    i know that it is not your fault.
    its someone else who introduce him unfair.
    i expect that you search and know him truthful.
    you must search about all of EVIL MAN then take this link on your site.
    i think you and all of them who are agree with this
    EVIL MAN are the opposite of Islam revolution.
    i want to add this at last for your knowing Islamic
    revolution of iran is the one of the best

  • Mark D. Combs

    Where is Kyser Soze????

  • Loose Cannon

    Mark – Maybe he’s with Darth Vader and Lord Voldemort on the most fictitious evil people list!

    Have our public schools so deteriorated that some people can tell between fictional characters and real people??

  • Hehe – great comments – keep it up :)

  • Most EvilOne

    Every law that was made in account of September eleventh was only made for one purpose. The suppression and control of the American people. Do you know that if you leave this country and get ride of your citizenship to it, THAT YOU CAN BE PULLED BACK WITHIN FIVE YEARS OF YOUR LEAVE!!!! LOL!!, YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE United States, ROFL. When this countries economy crashes and everyone wants to expatriate they will all be stuck**!! INCLUDING ME and I love it.
    I do not know why, but I love chaos and fighting.

    People crack me up though! They drive home in your V8 trucks and step into your 3 bedroom, insulated, plumbed, electric able, internet and television able houses THAT HAVE FOOD STOCKED NECK HIGH AND FRESH WATER and flick on the TV and SUCK IT IN. Its like you do not realize what you really have. ALSO its this same view that is the same reason why the democrats have gained numbers. Its like democrats are the exact people that take for granted what they have to the max. More government??? We the people are too poor??? HEY let the rich guy be rich if he is going to put gas in my gas tank cheaper than the other rich guy. We split monopolies and no one gets to big so the competition is good. Every free civilization comes to a point where the rich are far to rich and the poor are far too poor and eventually it leads to the crashing of the that society and eventually the entire civilization usually gets attacked in its weakness. Now we know that fighting about who's too rich is bad. So? why do we do it then???

    HA, HA, HA, IT makes me sick when people argue about politics. You know why??? BECAUSE ITS INVIGORATING. YOU CANT DO SHAT about the bad things happening in the world, so just get over it and accept that the end is near, unless we want to agree ON SOMETHING FOR ONCE!! MUTUAL agreement COULD SAVE THE WORLD. It doesn't matter what anyone does or says anymore, there will always be ignorant people in this world up until they see meet their maker. You do not own your house, you do not own your car, you do not own yourself, you are a slave to the United States of America and the big times that run it. As it says in the bible this day WILL come and it either has or is very close. I may not be the best at ENglish, but I do know that we are in Iraq for oil, The m16 overheats, porn will destroy you, trust no one, and nothing I can say in my entire lifetime could change even a single individuals opinion without love. Only through love can you trust another truly, but even then people can falter, and that is why you have to research and be skeptical of something even if it sounds so… so! sweet. If you disagree with what I say you are STUPID, SHUT UP!! lol. laters

    • tico

      That was shocking but really true, and i can only confirm it by seeing that people didn't like what you just said, they don't want to know the truth because they can't take it, they are blind because they refuse to open their eyes, like scary little animals, cattle they are…

    • les

      from what ive read and it hasnt been much considering that this seemed to be an incoherant ramble that just kinda expressed your ridiculous opinion and are somewhere on the level of jessy ventura as far STUPIDITY goes as far as nonsencical rants and just down rite idioretardeacy (see i can make stuff up to) there is no way that weve been brain washed as a nation im an american and very happy to be i have guns i do as i please with them to the extent of the law and appreciate that it is a government run system that has gotten us to this point but i can tell you rite now even FOX news is rite sometimes i find it down rite hilarious that people from other countries can think theve lived more free then we do we dont have anything holding us back from doing what we want when we want i know england is somewhat close but there still worried that they will be topled by there people given the chance(not an actual fact just an opinion) as any of this really is……. the people on this list are truly horrible and thats not anything close to what todays government has done if you will… weve been in several wars and in several other conflicts around the world but saying that such political figuers are capable of this on there own accord is just insane and a demented way of thinking there are many tears to a system especialy like the one we have in place here and there is never a single person making every decision at once and for those of you whom understand an informative peice of info as aposed to gibberish will realize that… i am native by the way and my culture is still strong and also if you want to lay blame on america for the deaths of my people you can actualy refer to columbus and any other adventurer of the time they saw us as beasts with no religion when in fact we do have one or to it was just seen as horrific in there civilized eyes exactly as some of the posts seam to me here…. you people are ridiculous and those of you who are saying your not are the ones who should open your eyes

  • hal

    Fidel Castro and Ernesto Che Guevara are missing from the list too

  • PSGInfinity

    Loose Cannon,

    Enthusiastic seconds on Karl Marx and Frederick Engels!

  • Loose_Cannon

    PSGInfinity: Unfortunately, I think we’ve become a world where good intentions matter more then actual results.

    People like Karl Marx, Che Guevara and VI Lenin are revered for their philosophy and intent, but the results of their misguided notions have brought about more agony and misery in the world then anyone else.

    Perhaps not evil in themselves, they should be viewed by history as fools but instead are put on t-shirts and hailed as heroes. How sad.

    • dsasad

      the same discourse about intentions goes for the bush administration when one denies the existence of economic interests behind some propaganda disguised plan: You can expect to liberate a country when you are really causing more damage and therefore, end up legitimately falling in this list.
      And now, that is sad.

      • rich7292

        Evil intentions. George Bush has been put upon by more misinformed people than anyone there is. Barrack Obama is continuing and even escalating the same polices. Why not put him here too. If you think going into Iraq and Afghanistan was so terrible and innocent people who no one in the world will take off of our hands are imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay. Well then why not add Obama. And by the way philosophies that lead someone to mass murder people like Che Guevara are not misguided. And if you think that Marx and Lenin and Guevara had good intent that having your rights extinguished and being murdered if you don’t go along is good you have real problems.

  • someguy

    You should know that most of Southeast Asia (China, N&S Korea, Philippines, etc,) feels RAPED by Japan ruled by Hirohito. The part written here doesn’t do justice to the actual damage he did to the rest of the world. So what if he was a hero in Japan? Look at it from the bigger perspective. Go and say that to the rest of Asia that had to suffer and couldn’t develop as fast because their people were killed/raped. It’s all in the perspective.

  • Lucy

    someguy: “It’s all in the perspective.”

    Exactly. Which is why many Americans can’t see why Bush or Cheney should be on this list. Ask the rest of they world about the damage the Bush Administration has done.

    Cat Skyfire: “However much some may dislike his politics, we have no real expectation that, next year, they will mystically change the Constitution, publicly shoot all who oppose them, and then declare themselves Dictator for Life.”

    They have already dramatically changed the Constitution, nothing mystic about it. They have publicly humiliated and falsely imprisoned those who are in opposition in the name of the Patriot Act. While Bush hasn’t secured the title of Dictator for Life, money and power has guaranteed that he and his cohorts will continue to influence the decisions of the government.

    • tico

      Isn't Patriot Act a bit alike Hitler's Enabling Act after the Reichstagfire?
      There are many "coincidences" between them

  • Loose_Cannon

    Geez, another crazed leftist!

    In 1999, Time Mag. ran a poll of who should be named ‘Person of the Century.’ I remember reading forums of people who weighed in with the most significant persons who effected all of our lives over the last century, for good and bad; Einstein, Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, FDR, JFK, etc.

    Invariably, some religious freak would submit Jesus. Not that He wasn’t influential over the centuries, but ‘Person of 20th Century’? They would almost always argue that ‘He Lives!’ and therefore qualifies.

    C’mon! Get your head on straight. Even if you believe ‘Chimpy McHitlerburton’, connived a nation into overthrowing two of the world’s worst regime’s, do you really believe, in the complete annals of history, he or Cheney are the most evil or even comparable to people like Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin, who each murdered millions???

    Have you been so indoctrinated by the leftist media in this nation and abroad that you’ve lost all ability to rationally and logically segment really evil people from, at most, the misguided?

    Given a choice by the rest of the world, I would suspect the results would lead to a list very similar to the above. Most people are rational and not insanely obsessed, unlike the crazed left-wing nuts in this country.

  • Loose_Cannon

    Lucy: “They have publicly humiliated and falsely imprisoned those who are in opposition in the name of the Patriot Act.”

    Fine, provide the name and sourced article of those who’ve been imprisoned and ‘publicly humiliated’ just for opposing the Patriot Act.

    Like it or not, the Patriot Act was passed by both the House and the Senate, and legally signed into law by the President. And while I don’t personally agree with all it’s provisions, circumventing it is illegal.

    Simply opposing it isn’t.

    Opposing Marijuana laws isn’t illegal, but manufacturing, selling or use of it is, in most areas. See the difference?

  • Bonnie_

    I’m glad to see Stalin made the top slot, though I agree that Marx, the rich snot, should bear some philisophical blame for the hundreds of millions of deaths caused by communism.

    One could wish that those who quail and shiver under the hideous shadow of the “Patriot Act” would somehow sideslip through time and enter, say, Communist Moscow in the 1950’s, or the Killing Fields of Cambodia, or the stadiums of Rome where Christians were burnt alive in oiled torches.

    Perhaps you could add “American Public Schools” to a list of crimes against humanity. No one who actually learned history would ever mention our government and leaders in the same breath as these monsters.

  • someguy

    I do not agree with you at all. Please don’t connect my comment about Hirohito with your Bush-bashing lame excuse for politics. You want to know something Democrats hate to learn or accept? When the Rwandan genocide was taking place in 1994, the US clearly had knowledge of the incident but Clinton chose to “ignore” it. 8000+ people died per day for 100 days. Oh, and he refused to call it genocide. Type “clinton rwanda” on google and you’ll get his “apology” for not having taken action. Anything politicians do or did (on either side) will always be grilled by the other side. Just don’t be one of those stupid people who say “Bush is evil” without any argument or evidence.

    • aynomous

      Clinton did not know what was happening, besides, the leaders of Belgium should take the blame since they intentionally left the Africans alone and let them die. The people of Belgium may be more like Leopold than they think.

  • someguy

    8000 people dying per day for 100 days is 800,000 people dead.

    • brc

      lucky them rip, dosent get any better then that

  • Loose_Cannon

    I’m not really surprised Lucy hasn’t taken up my challenge. She really didn’t have the courage to address me directly, anyway.

    Over the course of recorded human history there have been some truly evil men. I really believe the men on this list represent the absolute worst and if I lived during their time, in their country, under their rule, I would fear for my families lives every single moment.

    There are people in this country who believe that aliens are monitoring their buttocks from millions of light-years away. I pity them. They are obviously deranged and need serious mental health treatment. They are wrecked with a mental illness that they can’t get away from and fed into it with senseless lies they read on the web and in the media. I hope they somehow come to their senses and see how delusional they really are.

    People who really believe Bush and Cheney are among the most evil people in all of history, such as Lucy and dalandzadgad, are just as mentally ill as those poor lost souls who believe aliens are monitoring their buttocks. I hope they get well.

  • Loose_Cannon

    Someguy: I visited the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in DC not to long ago, and it had an exhibit about the genocide in Rwanda. It is, without a doubt, the most senseless slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people that could have been prevented in modern times.

  • Loose_Cannon – excellent point about tee-shirts. Just two days ago a guy jogged past here wearing a shirt with the letter KGB on the front with a Soviet symbol – how could someone be so ignorant as to ignore the millions butchered by the Soviet government and the terror caused by the KGB? I am sure someone would not get far down the street if it were a big swastika and the SS logo – how is it that so many people are ignorant of the Soviet holocaust?

  • hal: Castro is on the worst 10 living dictators, and Che is on the famous corpses – so at least they both get a mention.

  • Loose_Cannon

    Bonnie wrote: One could wish that those who quail and shiver under the hideous shadow of the “Patriot Act” would somehow sideslip through time and enter, say, Communist Moscow in the 1950’s, or the Killing Fields of Cambodia, or the stadiums of Rome where Christians were burnt alive in oiled torches.

    I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the biggest crime against humanity was the complete lack of teaching in our public schools about the atrocities committed by some truly evil men.

    But I wanted to address the quote above: These were horrific acts of unbridled evil that, unfortunately, many of these people can not digest intellectually. They can not wrap their small minds around the idea of coordinated and planned mass execution on a very grand scale. They are just not imaginative and since there’s no stock footage or pictures of the acts being committed, they lack the mental aptitudes to fathom such brutal atrocities.

    It would be like asking your dog what was the greatest magic act of all history. He would most likely answer, if he could, the way his food magically appears to come from the bag when you pour it into his bowl. Sure, you could explain Houdini, Copperfield, or Penn & Teller, but he would simply not understand their worth.

  • Loose_Cannon

    jfrater wrote: how is it that so many people are ignorant of the Soviet holocaust?

    My not so humble opinion is that so many people on the intellectual left favored the Soviet Union’s cause and simply saw the ‘Show Trials’, murders and famine as a necessary part to provide for the ‘common good’. When they were proved wrong and the Soviet Union collapsed they held on to their misguided beliefs and focused their energy on Nazism and Slavery.

    Every school child can tell who Harriet Tubman, Fredrick Douglas or Hitler was. Very few could tell you about Mao, Lenin, or Stalin. And yet the greatest atrocities to mankind, in sheer numbers alone, were the misguided attempts to bring about ‘equality’.

    Many of these same people talk about how important ‘peace’ is. They’ll tell you to ‘Give People a Chance’ and ‘Pray for World Peace’. None that I’ve encountered ever mention ‘Justice’. Peace without justice is meaningless. Many of the most brutal acts in history were committed in peacetime. 50 million people were starved to death, forced to relocate to labor camps or simply murdered during peace time.

  • Loose_Cannon: I think you are probably right. I certainly hope that History in a few more years reflects that.

  • Pingback: Top 10 Most Evil Women - The List Universe()

  • Susan

    There is no evidence that Hirohito was more than a figurehead who was trapped by his position. Unfair!

  • RON


    • it

      Actually, the most evil Jew ever was Herod the Great.

  • Ron: Your spelling and yelling isn’t doing much for your credibility :)

  • Loose Cannon


    What’s a Kissanger? Does it have anything to do with Henry Kissinger?

    Also, what’s with the antisemitism around here? Did this list get posted at Stormfront or DU somehow?

  • Loose Cannon: hehe – I just have no idea where it is coming from. As long as it remains debate I don’t mind people having their say, but if things heat up I will delete comments or block them.

  • tom

    Bonnie, Marx lived in povery most of his life. He wrote a critique of 19th century capitalism-which was accurate at the time for Europe. He said very little of what a future communist society should look like-maybe a couple of pages at best.

  • Brian Moo

    Pol Pot was a poser. He probably read the back of the French version and said “Tivo la Revolucion!”

  • soha

    have you try to know khomeini without publicity of Journals!
    Please Try It and then talk about him

  • soha: Do you not consider it evil that he had all the political prisoners retried and executed if they did not agree with him? I sure do.

  • soha

    no! it’s a bouncer, he disagreed with those but the first of each Revolution exsit riot. he was a great you know about iran and iranian conditions before 1979? do you know about Khomeni’s life?
    please refer this link:

  • soha: there are people who think Oliver Cromwell was a great man, and those who think he was evil. There are those who think Queen Elizabeth I of England was a great woman and those who think she was evil. There is no value in trying to convince people one way or the other. I consider Khomeni to be an evil man so I included him on my list. If you wrote the list, you wouldn’t. We don’t have to agree with each other – we can still all enjoy the site :)

  • soha

    Ok but that’s better we judge about things with their properties, conditions and cultures!
    with best

  • Gopal

    My family’s from India, and an awful lot of people put Winston Churchill up on that list, right up there with Hitler and Stalin (if not quite that high). Churchill despised the Indian people openly and his malicious attitudes came out in a myriad of ways. He even deliberately withheld rice and other grains from a starving Bengal in 1942, despite a clear recognition of feasibility by his ministers– killed 4 million people in the process. Churchill was also one of the main motivators of the 1950’s coup that toppled the democratically-elected Mossadekh in Iran, one of the main reasons we later got the evil Khomeini in the first place!

    I don’t view him quite so negatively. But I hardly see him as a hero, either. He was a murderous racist in his own right, and a failure in others.

    I agree with your choice of Stalin at #1, and Pol Pot as well– an evil, ruinous, utterly incompetent bastard if there ever was one. But I’m sorry, WTF is Hirohito doing up there? He was just a figurehead in Japan.

  • Gopal: that is very interesting – thanks for mentioning that – I had no idea. As far as Hirohito is concerned, there is a school of thought that says that he was directing from behind the scenes.

  • Reality Hurts

    1.2 Million Iraqi’s killed by Bush Regime, why isn’t Bush/Cheney on the list?

  • Reality Hurts

    When those responsible for the American war in Iraq face a public reckoning for their colossal crimes, the weekend of September 15-16, 2007 will be an important piece of evidence against them. On Friday, September 14 there were brief press reports of a scientific survey by the British polling organization ORB, which resulted in an estimate of 1.2 million violent deaths in Iraq since the US invasion.

    This staggering figure demonstrates two political facts: 1) the American war in Iraq has produced a humanitarian catastrophe of historic proportions, with a death total already higher than that in Rwanda in 1994; 2) those arguing against a US withdrawal on the grounds that this would lead to civil war, even genocide, are deliberately concealing the fact that such a bloodbath is already taking place, with the US military in control.

    The reaction to the ORB report in the US political and media establishment was virtual silence. After scattered newspaper reports Friday, there was no coverage on the Friday evening television newscasts or on the cable television news stations. There was no comment from the Bush White House, the Pentagon, or the State Department, and not a single Republican or Democratic presidential candidate or congressional leader made an issue of it. On the Sunday morning talk shows on all four broadcast networks the subject was not raised.

    This was not because those involved were unaware of the study, which received wide circulation on the Internet and was prominently reported in the British daily press. Nor was there any serious challenge to the validity of the study’s findings.

  • Loose_Cannon

    RH: Why isn’t Bush/Cheney on the list? … On Friday, September 14 there were brief press reports of a scientific survey by the British polling organization ORB, which resulted in an estimate of 1.2 million violent deaths in Iraq since the US invasion.

    Because only ‘Fruit Loops’ would compare ‘Bushy McHitler’ with Stalin, Hitler, or Pol Pott and this study is exactly why you and your friends are so nuts.

    This survey you spin, conducted by the Opinion Research Business, asked 1499 Iraqi’s if they lost anyone in their family since the invasion. Here are the results from their survey:

    None 78%
    One 16%
    Two 5%
    Three 1%
    Four or more 0.002%

    So, in other words, a vast majority said ‘None’. But from the very small minority that answered ‘one or more’, ORB concluded 1.2 million Iraqi’s had died.

    Now, here’s the spin part of behalf of RH: When asked how they died, ORD found “48% died from a gunshot wound, 20% from the impact of a car bomb, 9% from aerial bombardment, 6% as a result of an accident and 6% from another blast/ordnance.”

    6%, or more then 73,000, resulted in death from an accident, and 20%, or 244,000 are the result of car bombings.

    So, RH and his loony brigade are not only blaming Bush and Cheney for actual deaths on the battlefield, they want to blame them for everyday accidents that may or may not have happen due to the invasion, but also the deaths cause by Al Quada and the insurgents.

    AND, since ORB takes into account EVERY household in Iraq, the crazy left is pushing this to include even the insurgents and Al Quida memebers themselves!!

    This would be akin to blaming LBJ for not only the deaths of Americans in Vietnam, but also the South Vietnamese killed by the Viet Cong, the Viet Cong whom were killed on purpose or by accident, AND the regular North Vietnamese Army troops who were killed.

    Incidentally, ORB conducted another survey recently, which concluded “that despite the horrendous personal security problems only 26% of the country preferred life under the previous regime of Saddam Hussein, with almost half (49%) preferring life under the current political system.

    This begs the question that if life is so bad for regular Iraqi’s and so many have died at the hands of McBushy Hilburler and Darth Cheney according to RH, why do almost a majority of them prefer life under our stooge puppet then under Saddam??

    You can’t really blame RH. S/He is just a pawn in the socialist left who more then likely didn’t even read the entire article and spouts this rhetoric on demand and by reflex, no doubt. But if RH had bothered to even read past the headline, S/he would have seen that this survey results spin they vomit here, lacks the integrity and honesty, which very common among the leftists in America and abroad today.

    For references:

  • Simon Templar

    Hey, you forgot George Bush jr., responsible for the death of almost half a million Iraqis and thousands of US soldiers, as well as Osama bin Laden for providing him the excuse to do so. The brutally calm and calculated way they both still play out their respective parts warrants a mention on this list.

  • Loose_Cannon

    Simon Templar: Hey, you forgot George Bush jr.,

    Who’s George Bush jr??

    …responsible for the death of almost half a million Iraqis and thousands of US soldiers

    Oh, and of course, the insurgents and Al Quida had nothing to do with those deaths.

    Why not be original like RH and blame McBushy HilBurtler for all the accidents that happen, as well?

    • gib

      iraq paid the al qaeda dues, it makes much sense indeed

    • Atila Hun

      You are an idiot. Your IQ is below zero. You are also a war criminal and a religious nut. You should be hanged by your balls together with Bush, Blair and Clinton!

      Death to you, asshole!

  • Simon Templar: the thing I have to be careful of in these lists, is to not become blinded by current events – for example if I were to do a top 10 Ends of Humanity, I might list global warming as the most likely event to do that – but it is because everyone is talking about it at the moment. Chances are, in 10 years, people will have forgotten global warming and will have gone on to some new fad promoted by the press. So I think we need to let history play out and then make our decisions. Bush has only been president for a short time and people are so emotional about him that we haven’t had time to look back and make a qualified statement one way or the other. When we do, if he is shown to be evil, I will modify this list.

  • Simon Templar

    Well said jfrater, I didn’t mean to criticize the list, it was more an attempt at psuedo-humor. But now that some of us are nit-picking (not you, jfrater), almost all the guys on this list are still universally despised whereas outside the US, you’ll encounter millions who revere Khomeini. I’ve nothing against Bush & Co., I’m sure they’re adorable and harmless as bunny rabits, I just hope they don’t one day land on my doorstep to liberate my family. And yes, I agree, he doesn’t belong on this list, yet.
    As a side note, you also missed some pretty nasty guys from Serbia.

  • Simon: thank you for being the first person to honestly realise the position I am in over Bush – I try to keep him out of the topics, not because I favor him – I am not even American, but because we need time to see what happens.

  • Loose_Cannon

    I’ve nothing against Bush & Co., I’m sure they’re adorable and harmless as bunny rabits, I just hope they don’t one day land on my doorstep to liberate my family.

    No worries about that, Simon. You obviously have the means to own a computer and the freedom to express your opinion, no matter how insane they might seem. Billions of other people in the world don’t have that privilege, yet.

    I’m certain millions of those people would gladly be liberated, by Bush or anyone else.

  • soha

    where is the place of Sharon?
    Is he the top of top?
    if you say no please visit this:

  • Simon Templar

    hey Loose_Cannon, computers can now be had almost everywhere in the world for as low as a $100, and access to one is, in most thirld world countries, is not a problem. You don’t need a PC to express your opinion, just thinking about an injustice being wrong can also suffice. All the billions waiting for Bush to liberate them are being tormented by the very guys supported by the US government, Pakistan being a major example here. My opinions might seem insane but yours, Sir, are bigoted, and I’d rather be insane than a bigot. I’ve taken the liberty to assume that you are an American citizen. If an American citizen on American soil is forced to drink her own bottled breast milk to prove that its not Nitro Glycerin and decent people are forced to give up their liberties every day in the name of homeland security, just imagine what Bush & Co.’s chief ally is doing in Pakistan. Edmund Burke said, All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    Do you consider yourself a good man?

  • Loose_Cannon

    Simon: My opinions might seem insane but yours, Sir, are bigoted, and I’d rather be insane than a bigot.


    I consider myself bigoted against the idea Bigfoot exists, that Elvis is still alive and that aliens are monitoring individuals anal cavities from millions of light years away.

    I am very closed to others opinions on those matters and wouldn’t change them at anytime, unless sound, scientific evidence were directly presented to me.

    I would sincerely hope most people in the world are bigoted to some opinions.

    Simon, look around you carefully. We have the complete freedom to express whatever crazed ideas we wish to convey in this country. The one characteristic each of the of the most evil individuals on this list have, the one they all share, the single thread any rational person would admit is that they would never tolerate dissent.

    They’ve killed, tortured, and had individuals imprisoned just for dissent.

    Each of them, also, have been directly responsible for a minimum of thousands upon thousands of deaths. If we were to hold individuals as evil for the direct result of death attributed to our enemies, such as the insurgent suicide bombers, the first president I would nominate would be LBJ. Think of the Gulf of Tonkin, the 57,000 American GI’s, and the actions of a few individuals that resulted in mass murder charges against our troops, not to mention the attacks by Vietvong and regular NVA troops.

    Loss of liberty is evil? Think FDR and the 100,000 Asian Americans who were forced to relocate to camps for the remainder of WWII.

    OR maybe Lincoln, who was the first president, I believe, to ever suspend Habeas Corpus.

    Evil is, or at least should be, reserved for those persons whom history has decided are, or were, intent on mass murder.

    Gassing 6 million Jews, intentionally causing famine that results in 10 millions+ deaths, having thousands impaled on wooden sticks while you dine and murdering individuals who look ‘intellectual’ are evil acts, and so we can call the persons who committed these atrocities evil.

    Liberating millions of people from two of the most repressive regime’s in modern history wasn’t an evil act.

    And anyone who claims it is, is either insane or ignorant of history. I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt in your intellect but I could be wrong on that matter.

  • Loose_Cannon

    Simon: hey Loose_Cannon, computers can now be had almost everywhere in the world for as low as a $100, and access to one is, in most thirld world countries, is not a problem.

    Simon, in a majority of third world nations, most of the population makes then then $1,000 US a year. And furthermore, according to an article by The Economist, a very well respected magazine, “Developing countries have three quarters of the world’s population and use just 18% of its electricity. Four-fifths of their inhabitants live in rural areas with no electricity, so consumption per person is low: around 500 kilowatt hours kWl,) each year…

    In other words, a majority of people living in third world nations don’t even have electricity, never mind the luxury of a PC. Maybe they’re hand cranking their Dell??

    You’re wrong, Simon. Having electricity is difficult enough. Access to a PC is a luxury, which you have, and most of the world doesn’t.

    Are you really this naive?


  • Simon Templar

    Hey Loose_Cannon, since you like to quote so much,

    “Simon, look around you carefully. We have the complete freedom to express whatever crazed ideas we wish to convey in this country. The one characteristic each of the of the most evil individuals on this list have, the one they all share, the single thread any rational person would admit is that they would never tolerate dissent.

    They’ve killed, tortured, and had individuals imprisoned just for dissent.

    Each of them, also, have been directly responsible for a minimum of thousands upon thousands of deaths.”

    I rest my case.

    “Simon, in a majority of third world nations, most of the population makes then then $1,000 US a year. And furthermore, according to an article by The Economist, a very well respected magazine, “Developing countries have three quarters of the world’s population and use just 18% of its electricity. Four-fifths of their inhabitants live in rural areas with no electricity, so consumption per person is low: around 500 kilowatt hours kWl,) each year…”

    I do get your drift, its just that its so….. drifting.
    Au revoir my bigot friend, I’ve gotta go discuss this further with LBJ and Napoleon in the asylum cafeteria.

  • Arik

    A small critique: Though Attila was a nasty fellow, I would say he’s more a victim of his times. There were many barbaric tribes and nations in that era, which is why it led to the Dark Ages (the end of widespread literacy). I would replace him with Nero: responsible for torturing and killing millions. Also believed (by most scholars) to be the Antichrist which the Apostle John wrote of in his exile.

    And a bit of praise: This list is a service to the world; reminding everyone how much society has progressed, and encouraging us to progress further. Thank you.

  • Arik: Thanks for your comment and praise :) It is greatly appreciated.

  • stu

    you surely can’t be serious! in the context of his time khomeini was probably one of the heroes of the twentieth century. Robespierre? he challenged the brutal indifference of a typically corrupt monarchy!!! and why isn’t churchill on your list? where are the bush-wits?? roosevolt?

    • JBONE27

      I'm sorry for the delay, but this was the first time I saw this page. How can you defend Khomeini. He was a religious fanatic, who wanted everyone to return practice Sharia law, destroy western and eastern ideas, and plunge the world into the bronze age. What was he rebelling against? Oh yeah, a propped up monarch who, even though he did a lot of good for his people, didn't recognize that he had to cut back on expenses when the economy tanks… also, Which Roosevelt do you mean? Teddy was a great person and a decent president. FDR, though he was antisemitic, and did promote a policy of non-involvement in WW2, and set up internment camps to hold American citizens, what he did wasn't nearly as bad as some of out former presidents (Say Andrew Jackson [Trail of Tears, Toppling the US economy, killing numerous people in "honor duels"). and Churchill… really, granted he was a bit conservative and misogynistic, and he was an incompetent general, but he was far far from evil. I do however agree with you about the Bush-wits, though I'd say Dick Chaney was the greatest evil on that team.

  • stu: maybe if you hate women. Robespierre murdered people without a trial – how can you support that? I am guessing you must be an extreme left wing supporter?

    • Thor

      I think there should be more americans on the list. For example those who killed indians.

    • John

      Khomeini made Iran a respected and feared ountry after he rule of corrupt Shah regime. Inluding him shows how stupid you are

    • nadirhussainjamlai

      Imam khaomeini was a great leader of the world how dare to you nominate him a evil, bush why not and churchill and so many names

  • benny

    i do believe that your list may need a little modification…the most evil man in the history of the world would have to hilary clinton. thank you

  • asdfriend

    i put this on the women list so i will put it on thison this list. i guess that this should be under the most evil men and women in the world (the just recently turned bad, they were AWESOME the rest of the time) would have to be the people at bungie… how could they do that to me, i mean after 6 years of playing mastercheif and now hes just floating off in space (or maybe landing on “marathon”) and i have to have an ending like that, i mean they went off and crushed millions of peoples dreams (unless they make halo4) that is the most evil anyone could do

  • chresus jist

    Perhaps the number 1 position should have been given to the god or gods that are often cited as the authority for taking the lives of others.

  • icarus

    i think your judgement is a bit naive…accomodation has to made for time, culture, circumstance, and most importantly which side wrote the history which serves as current day sources..

    As you mentioned Romanians consider Vlad quite a hero. Attila was very maligned by the oh so pious romans, especially when they kept losing to him

    And Hirohito had no more power in Japan than Ahmedinejad has in Iran…

    Its surprising how nobody considers the..uhmm 2nd nuclear bomb dropped on a living human city?
    Why the 2nd? After only 3 days? No real negotiation…no warning…oh wait..i think they threw leaflets telling the people to leave the city…oh yes…surely they’re heroes then…

  • ali

    and where is bush

  • soha

    I ask again : where is the Israel Leaders?
    are there in the Evil?
    The Palestinian Child is under their high boots!

  • ali: In the Whitehouse I believe :)

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  • bob

    what about Dick (the bastard) Cheney?

  • bob

    Yes Dick Cheney should be here too! A totally dispicable human being – not worthy of our contempt. How come evil bastards like him don’t die from heart attacks – actually I’m amazed he actually has a heart at all! A total low life who has almost destroyed America’s already dubious reputation and thinks only of himself and his rich mates – Dick, Belzebub has a devil set aside for you!

  • PleaseThink

    This is why I love teh internets. Screw facts and logic when you can resort to Ad Hominem attacks against people you disagree with. But seriously…

    The argument that Che should be on the list but Bush shouldn’t is blatantly biased. Both people, according to their followers, acted out of a desire to help people. Both people ended up causing a lot of deaths in the process. But since Bush is American, putting him on the list is a no-no, but Che and Marx(see note), yeah they should go up there. I’m not the biggest Che fan myself, but that’s a little ridiculous.

    Actually, this whole concept of arguing whether Bush, Hitler, Stalin, Che, or your little sister isn’t going to get anywhere. The problem is that Hitler isn’t famous just because he was evil. He is famous because he was evil AND had was powerful enough to act on that evil in major ways. Bush doesn’t even have the power to kill people at Stailin/Hitler’s scale even if he wanted to. Would he have out-eviled Stalin/Hitler if he had that much power? Who knows, but I bet there are tons of people who would be just as evil or worse as the people on that list but simply didn’t have power. The list is more like the “top 10 most powerful people in the world who are also evil”, which is a good list, but doesn’t fit with these arguments. Since Bush, despite having a TON of power, can’t really get away with starting a Holocaust, it is pretty much impossible to make any relevant comparisons either way.

    PS: Marx was a philosopher by the way, he didn’t kill anybody, and he specifically said Communism would NOT work in an feudal agrarian society but required an existing capitalist democracy to advance from. Of course, the idiots in Russia and China, and pretty much every other Communist country, decided to ignore this important piece of advice from the very person who’s philosophy they were following and instead put all their power into the hands of a few people (which never works out well). By the way, during the time when Marx lived, the working class were a LOT worse of then they are today, often at the point of borderline slavery. It makes sense that somebody would look for a way to fix that and he can’t realistically be expected to magically foresee that his views would be corrupted by a bunch of idiots and power-hungry maniacs and then turn into the bloodbath that they did. At least Jesus is supposed to have some sort of divine power.

    PSS: Vlad was one seriously screwed up dude. It doesn’t matter who considers him a hero.

  • Area51

    Has anyone mentioned Idi Amin, former dictator of Uganda? If he isn’t deserving of being on the list of most evil guys, he should at least be up there on the list of “Not very fun guys”.

  • magnolia_snooze

    how is stalin eviler than hitler? hmm… its either i slept through history classes or i was daydreaming or both… either one of those or im high! again!

  • magnolia_snooze: Stalin’s actions lead to between 10 and 60 million deaths. Hitler’s lead to 3-6 million. Both are utterly evil but I had to rank them so Stalin came first.

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  • kitkat

    okay. i just sat here for over an hour, reading all the comments so i wouldn’t be accused of not reading everything when i commented. first of all, i agree with please think’s comment:

    “Bush doesn’t even have the power to kill people at Stailin/Hitler’s scale even if he wanted to. Would he have out-eviled Stalin/Hitler if he had that much power? Who knows, but I bet there are tons of people who would be just as evil or worse as the people on that list but simply didn’t have power. The list is more like the “top 10 most powerful people in the world who are also evil”, which is a good list, but doesn’t fit with these arguments.”

    i like the list, and agree with most of the people you chose, jfrater.

    loose canon, i think that in your comments you have been rude to some other commenters. yes, we’re all allowed to express what we want to, but just because someone disagrees with you or what you think is the standard of sanity doesn’t mean they are insane.

    i agree with simon templar when he said you are bigoted. you use sarcasm to make a statement when it isn’t necessary. you call people crazy with no reason to back up your ‘diagnosis’ other than their disagreement with you and your ideals. i find that upsetting and dissettling.

    again, i’ll look at what please think said:

    “Bush doesn’t even have the power to kill people at Stailin/Hitler’s scale even if he wanted to. Would he have out-eviled Stalin/Hitler if he had that much power?”

    we don’t know the answer to that question, because he, thankfully, doesn’t have that power. i implore you to, please, think about what you say and what you write. don’t be sarcastic if it’s uncalled for. this could be a friendly debate, or you could turn it into something much more ugly just by the wrong choice of words or tone. and tone is something that is sometimes hard to get across online, so word choice becomes even more important.~

  • kitkat

    also, to gopal (though he hasn’t come back since his first post), i didn’t know that about churchill. that’s interesting, and i’ll be sure to remember it.~

  • Loose_Cannon

    kitkat i think that in your comments you have been rude to some other commenters. yes, we’re all allowed to express what we want to, but just because someone disagrees with you or what you think is the standard of sanity doesn’t mean they are insane.

    Kitkat, let me explain my point of view to you as clear as I can: Bush HAS the authority to designate anyone he wants as a enemy combatant. He could, if he wanted to, ship anyone he wanted to Gitmo. This is backed by Supreme Court decisions going back to the US Civil War. The idea that we don’t know how evil Bush/Cheney/Rove would be if given the power is wrong, they already have it and it would be fully constitutional.

    FDR sent over 100,000 Japanese-Americans to interment camps during WWII, but you don’t see him on the list, now do you?

    The fact that hundreds of thousands of critics of Bush and co. are walking the streets and even making movies that disagree with Bush is proof that he isn’t the most evil.

    The fact that we can have this conversation, in a public-cyber place, fully accessible by anyone anywhere, is also proof that Bush/Rove/Cheney aren’t the most evil.

    Anyone who continues along this argument, that Bush/Cheney/Rove are the most ‘EVIL’, must be a nut with very serious mental problems. OR, they’re incredibly ignorant.

    You can express any opinion you like: Bigfoot stole your supper, Aliens monitor your anus from the moon, or that Cheney is Bambi next to Stalin. That doesn’t make your argument sane or rational.

    You’re ‘right’ to express your opinion doesn’t negate my ‘right’ to express mine, Kitkat.

  • kitkat

    loose canon: i wasn’t saying that you can’t voice your opinion, and i wasn’t saying that i think bush should be on the list. to be honest, i don’t think he should. jfrater made a point in the posts that “I think we need to let history play out and then make our decisions. Bush has only been president for a short time and people are so emotional about him that we haven’t had time to look back and make a qualified statement one way or the other.” i think this is a good point. we don’t know all the effects bush’s administration will have, so we need to wait.

    “FDR sent over 100,000 Japanese-Americans to interment camps during WWII, but you don’t see him on the list, now do you?”

    fdr signed the documnets because most of the country was afraid after the attack on pearl harbor. after 9-11, many were, and still are, afraid of muslims and middle-eastern cultures. bush can’t do what fdr did, because it has been realised as wrong. congress wouldn’t send the bill through to bush, and bush can’t just declare it.

    “Bush HAS the authority to designate anyone he wants as a enemy combatant. He could, if he wanted to, ship anyone he wanted to Gitmo.”

    …well, i can see this as plausible. i don’t think we’ll be going anywhere too far from iraq, but he did start a war by himself. going into iraq was a ‘police’ movement. and he waited for an opportunity to turn it into war. is it even considered a war against the country yet? as far as i know, it’s a war against the idea of terrorism.

    i don’t mean to offend, and i’m sorry if i did. i wasn’t saying you can’t call people crazy, but you should consider what you say and the feelings of those that you’re saying it to.~

  • Hobolad

    “a war against the country yet? as far as i know, it’s a war against the idea of terrorism.”

    In name- seems like it’s just creating more animosity and more would be terrorists- but it’s making Bush and friends even richer, so that’s some comfort at least…

    I used to think the war was a regrettable but necessary thing, but… no. The people we’re killing are just the normal people, like all wars I guess. Anyone seen that bit in Fahrenheit 9/11 (It’s taken from another film) where they’re interviewing some soldier, and that bit with the Iraqi guy holding up most of a baby, next to a big pile of bodies from us bombing them?

    I really don’t see how we’re helping. And us Brits are hypocritical as hell- saying the war was to get rid of Saddam then having that visit from that Saudi king? We’re the friends of these evil people up to the point were our leaders stop getting money from them.

    EDIT: For the record, I don’t reckon Bush should be in the top ten (yet…in the future, who knows?)

  • evan

    War is definitely needed at times, against a definable enemy like Germany in WW2. The problem with “the war on terrorism”, or any ideologically war like the “war on drugs”, is there is no identifiable defined enemy, so then you can’t win it.

    Instead we should be working on redefining our foreign policy to reduce tensions with would be terrorists and listen to their complaints. I don’t mean appeasement, but our brash presence abroad only causes more anger and swells their ranks. They attack us for our foreign policy, not because they hate our freedom like some claim. Although to be fair, there are some radical terrorists that its simply a religious thing that won’t be complete until all people are their religion.

  • Hobolad

    Yeah, the radicals who actively try to kill innocents deserve all they get.

    WW2, yeah something needed to be done- but war? Like in Iraq, it’s not the “bad guys” who take the brunt of the war, it’s the people. Y’know, WW2 was still just some blokes given guns and told to fight against another load of blokes given guns and told to fight.

    Maybe it was necessary, I can’t pretend to have all the answers (I say there should be an alternative yet I can’t think of a viable alternative, so I dunno), but it was still pretty bad.

  • evan

    well id say that was the simplest explaination ive ever seen for the summation of WW2 ;)

  • Loose_Cannon

    KitKatbush can’t do what fdr did, because it has been realised as wrong. congress wouldn’t send the bill through to bush, and bush can’t just declare it.

    Yea, actually he could.

    If you would look up your history, you would see FDR signed Executive Order Number 9066. EO’s don’t require Congressional approval. FDR sent over 100,000 Japanese Americans to interment camps and Bush could do the exact same thing if he wanted to, wrong or not.

    i don’t think we’ll be going anywhere too far from iraq, but he did start a war by himself.

    You mean other then the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq Congressional approval he received? Or do you mean other then the 21 OTHER nations that took part?

    Yeah, other then that he was ALL alone!

    i don’t mean to offend, and i’m sorry if i did. i wasn’t saying you can’t call people crazy, but you should consider what you say and the feelings of those that you’re saying it to.~

    You didn’t ‘offend’ me, but before you make such sweeping statements about history, as you’ve made here, you should educate yourself a bit.

    And let me be clear: I’m not name calling. I sincerely think that if anyone can accuse Bush/Rove/Cheney of being one of the most ‘EVIL’ men alive, if not *THE MOST*, they should seek mental treatment. They obviously are suffering from some hysterical delusion and should seek help.

  • Loose_Cannon

    Hoboladbut war? Like in Iraq, it’s not the “bad guys” who take the brunt of the war, it’s the people. Y’know, WW2 was still just some blokes given guns and told to fight against another load of blokes given guns and told to fight.

    Maybe we should attempt the Neville Chamberlain school of diplomacy. You know, give in, give in, and give in, until you have nothing left.

    I always find it fascinating when the people who are against war seem to leave out the term ‘JUSTICE’ from their arguments. I wonder why?

  • Loose_Cannon

    Hoboladbut it’s making Bush and friends even richer, so that’s some comfort at least…

    Specifically, how is it making Bush richer, as you claim? You do realize that the Executive Branch members are required, by law, to put their investments into ‘Blind Trusts’ and are also required to file notice with the US Office of Government Ethics if they receive any special treatment or other reward for policy?

  • kitkat

    loose cannon: i would like to say that you make all your references to wikipedia. wikipedia is not the most reliable source.

    i did look up some informations about sending the japanese-americans to internment camps. on friday i found a source that, to my understanding, said congress passed the law on to fdr, who signed it. i may have misunderstood, but the source i found tonight: – says that fdr signed it first, and that congress put it into law over a month later. if congress had voted it down, it wouldn’t have happened. but people were pressuring the government to pass the law. there were economic factors and nativist motives involved. fdr did not and could not have decided to pass that law on his own.

    when i said bush started the war all on his own, i meant he STARTED it. if he hadn’t ordered troops in on a ‘police operation’ or whatever for things that weren’t there, we wouldn’t be doing what we’re doing. this is a war for oil. not to liberate the people, not to stop horrible people. to secure our oil supply. i’m not saying that saddam hussein wasn’t a horrible person, he was. but that wasn’t bush’s motivation. it was oil. if we had just gone into afgahnastan to find osama bin ladin, who is the initiator of the attack on new york, i really wouldn’t care as much. but i haven’t heard a word about him or afgahnastan in a very long time.

    and maybe that’s my fault for not having cable or sattelite. for not reading news articles online. for not spending time looking for a reason to believe bush. maybe it’s my fault for having parents who lean strongly against bush. i think we all develop our political views based on our parents’. not to say everyone takes the same side as their parents, but certainly they had an influence on their decisions. but this is all besides the point.

    and in light of your denial of name calling, i would like to ask if you have a degree in psychology. you don’t know these people, you only know one small aspect of them: that they dislike bush and impulsively made a comment about him being a terrible person. people do that sort of thing all the time. when someone does something to make you angry, do you say you hate them? i think a lot of teenagers have said or thought that about their parents, and nearly everyone has said or thought it about SOMEONE. not everyone means it, and not everyone thinks about what they are saying or doing. particualarly online, where next to no one knows who they are.

    it’s perfectly fine for you to think that they’re crazy, plenty of people think that about other people as well, but is it kind or polite to say so to them? is it fair to suggest they get mental help based on one or two comments about a very touchy political subject?~

  • Mathilda

    Loose_Cannon You said “Anyone who continues along this argument, that Bush/Cheney/Rove are the most ‘EVIL’, must be a nut with very serious mental problems. OR, they’re incredibly ignorant.” You are the only poster on this topic who has brought up Karl Rove whatsoever, and you have mentioned him six times now. I will leave the other posters to consider the implications of this as I must decline to watch more straw men being set up and destroyed.

  • Loose_Cannon

    MathildaYou are the only poster on this topic who has brought up Karl Rove whatsoever.

    Huh? Many people on the left use this group interchangeably. Cheney is this, Bush is that, Rove is another, blah, blah. I was simply stringing them together to keep the conversation straight.

    This is just – well – weak. This your best reply?

  • Mathilda

    Loose_Cannon – Actually, yes. As I have just pointed out the fact that you are apparently arguing with “many people on the left” who are not posting on this topic I really do not have anything else to say to you. I’ll stick with responding to people who are replying to comments posted here, thank you.

  • Loose_Cannon

    kitkati may have misunderstood, but the source i found tonight – – says that fdr signed it first, and that congress put it into law over a month later.

    Let me see if I can’t explain this a little better: Congress passes a bill, the President signs it, it becomes law. Not the other way around. Executive Orders are a means for the President to execute his authority as Commander-in-Chief and the Executive Branch. You’re only source for this is a web blog that lists an out-of-date book from almost 20 years ago.

    As Commander of the Armed Services of America, the President could execute an EO without Congressional approval and in fact Presidents do this all the time.

    You’re wrong. Bush could, as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Services, and as *THE* Executive Branch, do as FDR once did, and round up people he deemed a threat to national security.

    i think a lot of teenagers have said or thought that about their parents, and nearly everyone has said or thought it about SOMEONE. not everyone means it, and not everyone thinks about what they are saying or doing. particualarly online, where next to no one knows who they are.

    That’s exactly my point. It’s emo, pussy BS. It’s *EXACTLY* what you would expect from a spoiled teenager who didn’t get their way. It’s not logical or rational, it’s emotional and hysterical.

    And I would say the same exact thing if someone came here accusing Clinton, or Carter, or Reagan, or Nixon as the *MOST EVIL* men ever. This is not a political debate, per se. It’s a ‘CHILDISH, EMOTIONAL, HYSTERICAL’ debate.

    This is why political discourse in this country has deteriorate to such a degree. While one side is trying to have a rational, thoughtful, meaningful debate, the other side is yelling *NAZI*, *DEVIL*, or *HITLER*.

    and in light of your denial of name calling, i would like to ask if you have a degree in psychology.

    Why would I need a psychology degree to point out the obvious? If someone mentions that their butt is being monitored by aliens on Mars or that the CIA is reading their thoughts from Langley, it’s pretty obvious that they are crazy. Same for the people who would call Bush one of the *MOST EVIL*. Or Clinton, or Reagan, or their parents.

  • Loose_Cannon

    kitkatis it fair to suggest they get mental help based on one or two comments about a very touchy political subject?

    Is it fair? Absolutely! And it’s factual.

    I said it in several posts here; if anyone truly believes that BUSH or CHENEY or Clinton or Reagan (I’ll leave Rove out, since it seems to raise Mathilda’s blood pressure a couple of points when I mention him) are the most evil, then I am sincere in stating they should seek mental treatment.

    I don’t believe this be a political issue, but simply a matter of mental health. If you’re a grown, mature, educated individual and you can look at this list and say “Nay, Bush is much more evil then these guys”, then yeah, you should seek mental treatment cause you’re nuts.

  • Loose_Cannon

    kitkatthis is a war for oil. not to liberate the people, not to stop horrible people. to secure our oil supply…blah, blah, blah

    You kinda trailed off there, Kitkat. You are under the impression that I care what you think about the war in Iraq. Let me assure you I don’t.

    This conversation is about your misstatement. You distinctly said “(H)e did start a war by himself.”

    You are factually wrong. He had the support of Congress and the support of the American public. Furthermore, our country wasn’t the only country. There were 21 other nations that took part.

    You decided to restate your opinion from a ‘he did it’ to a ‘he started it’, then trail off into ‘war for oil’, yada, yada, yada.

    This thread is about *THE MOST EVIL MEN*. If you’re looking for emotional support on your view of the war I would suggest you try the DU forums. You’ll find plenty of people who will agree with you and provide you the emotional support you are desperately seeking. :)

  • kitkat

    loose cannon:

    “if anyone truly believes that BUSH or CHENEY or Clinton or Reagan (I’ll leave Rove out, since it seems to raise Mathilda’s blood pressure a couple of points when I mention him)…”

    “This is not a political debate, per se. It’s a ‘CHILDISH, EMOTIONAL, HYSTERICAL’ debate.”

    you are trying to pick a fight with people, plain and simple. the remark about not mentioning rove was completely unnecessary. you are being just as childish as some of the other people by commenting like that. there’s no reason and no sense to it except to make other’s angry or upset. you are being just as much a whiney teenager by calling people crazy and stupid.

    and bush did initiate the war. bush put us there, waiting for a reason to make it such. he secured support for when it would happen, but it wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t sent us in.~


    To Loose_Cannon:

    I DID have sex with Aliens! (it’s wierd what they do to you!)

    I DID shake Bigfoot’s hand!

    And I DID eat dinner with Elvis last night! (at appleby’s!)

    And Im telling YOU that Bush is a naughty boy, Cheney is and even naughtier boy, and they should be on this list.

    Yes, Hitler may have been involved with the Holocaust. But, Bush has his own Holocaust. The Holocaust of the Ozone Layer. He is pulling a genocide on the enviroment by not joining other countries on the Kyoto Protocal.

    Global Warming is upon us!

    I DONT WANNA GO TO THE MENTAL INSTITUTION MOMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Why create a list that rates the “most evil of all time”? In its creation does it not say that we will honor your evil by continued reference? Why not make a list of the nicest people in history? Not one comes to mind does it? Thats because we are raised and taught to remember the darker aspects of our society. Face it folks we’re all evil we just like to point out and list the worst amoung us so we don’t feel so bad about ourselves. Now feel free to continue your little political battle. Seriously who gives a shit whos in office gas prices will still stand at $3.00 tomorrow.

  • CHAINSAW: my personal reasons for doing so are that they make for more controversial and interesting lists for the readers on the site – I guess it is similar to the way press never reports nice news. Having said that, I have done lists of great inventions and the wonders of the world – not all lists here are evil :)

  • jov

    Leopold 3 million people? I’ve usually heard 8 million, and that’s conservative. Personally I think ranking evil is an anti-humanist pursuit.

    Having said that, if you want to be utilitarian about it,(and you’ve have to include a lot of criteria for analysis) I’d think Leopold would be higher on the list. Considering also that when the ‘Kongo Free State’ ceased to exist they left behind a single person with a college education (compare that to British colonies), and today Congo, Rwanda and other formally Belgian colonized nations are festering wounds of Colonization. 4 Million people died in the Second Congo War, I don’t know how many were slaughtered in Rwanda, and today the Congo is still one of the largest humanitarian crises on the planet, I’d say the legacy of Leopold’s evil should not be played down.

    Furthermore, as someone who has been to Cambodia, seen Tol Slong and the Killing Fields, I’d like to point out the level of ambiguity over the numbers dead. The most serious and rigorous analyses have come to a number far lower than 2 million. I don’t think that diminishes the suffering of the country, or the evil of Pol Pot, but if you were to use numbers killed as a barometer, Pol Pot would be behind Leopold, even on your numbers, with 3 million to Leopold’s name 2 million to Brother number 1.

    Lastly, a really crucial point: Where is Mao?? The Great Leap forward left over 30 million starved to death. I wouldn’t take the time to say this, but when you make a list like this you better subject the entries to some scrutiny.

  • warchocman

    Can’t believe a single Pope didn’t make it. Ok, so maybe they didn’t individually amass a body count to equal your ‘ten dinner guests to die for’ but then their god must take the blame. Now I come to think of it – yes GOD – be him muslim, christian or god of the fairies at the bottom of the garden – he, it? whatever – should surely be No1 for never have so many died, or suffer so much at the hands, thoughts or will of one man!

  • Xay Xay

    Judas should be on the list as well. People will try to fall back on the idea his actions were inherent and he had not choice, but his plight is one of paradox which is stated both ways in the Bible….every man has a choice…yet it was predistined.

    I highly doubt Judas went to heaven and I especially doubt he was Jesus’ most trusted disciple since his motives for coming and his greed showed itself before he decided to commit the crime.

    I guess where you left is quantity vs. severity.

    Judas only killed one man…but that one man is God…quite tough.

  • destiny

    this is cool but i think idi amin of ugandan should be on that list

  • destiny: You are not the first to mention him. Taking the comments in to account, I have updated the ordering of the list and have added Amin in position number 7.

  • asdfriend

    if you guys think bush is evil, then you are retarded, hes not hte best but he sure as hell didnt kill millions of people,so u cant even compare them. god and i thought bush was dumb

  • nathan

    what about bob knight?

  • Jigga

    khomeini is an inspriration/ a saint to millions of muslims worldwide till today, while the people in the rest of the list arent an inspiration to anyone- its an unfair blasphemy to a good man- kindly correct it.

  • Why do you people keep talking Bush? If he is evil, then do not worry! His “empire of balefulness” will end soon; after all, he is just a president, and presidents are not perpetual rulez of a nation.

    I just need to make a quick question, and I need someone to answer it for me, please. One of my uncles told me that I can expect to see Mayan emperors, and Roman emperors on a list of most evil men in History; but, if they’re not in the top ten, then, where can they be spotted at?

  • sdggrant

    Jigga, millions of people, past and present, have been inspired by Hitler. Should he be taken off the list as well. If Germany had won WWII he would also be seen as a “good man”, just as you describe khomeini. Taking into account on both men’s views on Jews, they probably would of been good friends.

  • sdggrant

    and in reply to Xay Xay…
    I’m an agnostic but if I were to presume that the bible was fact, then it would seem to me that Judas was responsible for death of Jesus, one man. Was not Jesus born with the sole intention of being sacrificed? If so, then Judas was only doing his role in ensuring that God’s master plan would unfold. Seems to me Judas got the short end of the stick.

    I was raised Catholic and have read the bible from front to back, so I do have some backround knowledge and am not speaking out of my asshole. Cheers!

  • soha

    khomeini is a God man. You don’t know him. Ask about him from who has seen him in Jamaran then talk about him!

  • Soha: I don’t understand how you can consider a man who ordered the execution of his political opponents to not be an evil man? The only possible way you could consider this okay is if you believe that people who oppose Islamist regimes should be murdered.

  • motsu

    I agree with those who said British ,french, dutch,spanish and portugeese rulers during the colonization period were the most evil men and women in history.They opressed and killed millions of poor nations in africa and asia ,and robbed thier countries for years and years ,ended only after world war 2,after they realise that oppression is thanks to Hitler for making them feel the pain of oppression and occupation of ones country by an invader.

  • sdggrant

    such an ignorant statement, motsu. If my great great grandfather was a slave trader should me and my family be murdered? He wasn’t really a slave trader, but im just saying…

  • Rae

    Loose Cannon: two words for you, WAKE UP!

  • Bush is not Evil, he is just stupid. :)

  • Rae

    Loose Cannon, what you don’t understand is that we stay here because this is our country and our government is supposed to WORK FOR US. But, I have a feeling you won’t be able to digest that. The problem with our current administration is that they do what they want, not what we, as the people, want. We stay because we can only hope that in 2008, our dictators will be out of office!

  • aplspud

    I agree that Bush and Cheney don’t deserve a place on this list, as these ten have truly brutalized and terrorized in a much more violent and menacing way.
    Loose Cannon, you are an instigator. Yes, Cheney was mentioned in the first comment, but it was a rather benign statement which you answered with “Here they come; The Bush/Cheney/Rove-Haters! With their view of evil so skewed, they will hysterically compare legendary evil people who killed millions, like Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalin to liberating millions from Iraq and Afghanistan.” You immediately go on the defensive attack, clearly showing that no matter what points may be brought up, anyone who is against these men is clearly unbalanced and in need of help. Psychologically, the more defensive someone is, the more they fear they will be proven wrong.
    People all around the world hate America and Americans, and its really not the liberals they are complaining about (except maybe in countries who fear the ideas in our Bill of Rights may infect their own people). They may have laughed at Clinton, but they are crying over Bush.

  • nicci.

    I suppose its wishful thinking to hope there’ll never be an updated list with brand new people.

    Love the site [&hopelessly addicted!], especially the history lists.

  • nicci: not in my lifetime I hope! And thanks for the compliment :)

  • BlackPaw

    “The selection of this list is based not upon death tolls, but upon the general actions, and impact, or brutality of the people. From bad to worst, here are the top 10 evil men in history.”

    According to this Vlad III should be on the top place and not Stalin. By the way where is Joseph Mengele, or this list is only for leaders.

    Hitler was far more cruel than Stalin.

  • Where is Columbus? He killed more people than Pol Pot and Idi Amin by far…

  • Where is Margaret Thatcher she destroyed 10’s of 1000’of lives’+towns and villages when she closed the coal mines.

  • Loose Cannon

    I love seeing the little snipes people make about my previous statements from months ago. It fills me with joy to think someone was so profoundly perturbed by it they feel the need to address it months later:

    aplspudYou immediately go on the defensive attack, clearly showing that no matter what points may be brought up, anyone who is against these men is clearly unbalanced and in need of help.

    Not true. I clearly state what you yourself said in your first line: “Bush and Cheney don’t deserve a place on this list.” From that point, which we can both agree to, I simply state a sane and educated person couldn’t possibly make a comparison to Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot.

    I don’t say ANYWHERE that you have to like Bush or Cheney. I don’t say anywhere that you have to AGREE with Bush or Cheney.

    RaeWAKE UP!

    Wide awake, thank you very much. But Bush and Cheney still don’t deserve to be on this list.

  • Loose Cannon

    BrianWhere is Margaret Thatcher she destroyed 10’s of 1000?of lives’+towns and villages when she closed the coal mines.

    Maybe because this is a list of the ‘Top 10 Most Evil MEN‘ and Margaret Thatcher is a woman.

    Or, it could simply be that she wasn’t evil enough to out match Stalin, Pol Pot, or Hitler.

    Also, specifically, how were these lives ‘DESTROYED’? Did they all die at once? Were none of them able to find other jobs?

    Maybe we should have kept the Horse-Buggy industry and mechanical manual typewriter industry going to avoid ‘destroying 10’s of 1000’s of lives’ too!

  • JesusFreak247

    …I LOVE JESUS!!! WHOOT WHOOT!!! Lol, evil people hm? I believe everyone has an inner evil of some type, like we ALL have our own secrets and our own type of darkness…to me though, only Christ can snuff out that darkness and bring in the light!! Merry CHRISTmas!!!!

  • gadzooks

    Jesus it’s people like Loose Cannon who just love to shove their so-called “intelligence” in other’s faces like they havd some kind of f*ckin PhD in f*ckin whatever. has it ever occurred to you, o mighty egghead, that people have different definitions of evil? it doesn’t always have to mean who killed the most, how many millions, etc. people are going to cite bush or cheney or whatever for being evil, but not necessarily because they did things in league with stalin and hitler. jesus christ, stop acting like you know so f*cking much that you just can’t wait to grab on to every single comment on here that’s said *something* about your dear ol’ bush. and by the way, for someone who so sarcastically comments on those still remarking on your old posts, it certainly hasn’t stopped your loud egotistical butt from trolling on here as well. so fly off wikipedia worm, and stop being such a damn know-it-all, in-your-face loud mouth!

  • Rizwan Takkhar

    I haven’t read all the comments above, but I read a discussion about including Bush. Why not? I’m sure he’d make the top 100 any day, if not the top 10.

    The point about ‘liberating people’ in Iraq and Afghanistan shows how ignorant the world is on issues of these countries. Literally hundreds of thousands of CIVILIONS have been killed in Afghanistan, and Iraq is going through Civil War, and Bush is to blame. Thanks.


    V. interesting list..

    But just a thought, seeing as you had begun to discuss evil….

    Would a person being considered for such a crown as ‘most evil’ not have to show some slightly more involved participation in their atrocities than some of the listed? I mean the decisions of leaders disconnected from the reality of those lives affected by them cannot be as evil as a man who enjoys the act of torturing and maiming with his own hands? Your ’10 most evil women’ list definitely takes into account a more ‘hands on’ approach?

    just a thought.

    Also, cannot accept the Iranian leader surpasses the likes of say

    Dr Mengeles….very evil…very hands on…
    Nero (as already pointed out)
    Anyone invovled in religious punishments in the 14th century?… the flaying alive of heritics was left to a special type of person…and again, who is more evil, the man who orders the torture or the torturer?

    And just to be contensious…are executioners more evil than those who go to watch?

  • Alex

    Quote Gadzooks-

    “Jesus it’s people like Loose Cannon who just love to shove their so-called “intelligence” in other’s faces like they havd some kind of f*ckin PhD in f*ckin whatever. has it ever occurred to you, o mighty egghead, that people have different definitions of evil? it doesn’t always have to mean who killed the most, how many millions, etc. people are going to cite bush or cheney or whatever for being evil, but not necessarily because they did things in league with stalin and hitler. jesus christ, stop acting like you know so f*cking much that you just can’t wait to grab on to every single comment on here that’s said *something* about your dear ol’ bush. and by the way, for someone who so sarcastically comments on those still remarking on your old posts, it certainly hasn’t stopped your loud egotistical butt from trolling on here as well. so fly off wikipedia worm, and stop being such a damn know-it-all, in-your-face loud mouth!”

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SAYING WHAT NEEDED TO BE SAID. I’m sure he’ll come back again with another smart ass remark.

    P.S. Who said anything about bigfoot, alien anal probes, etc? Do you think anyone who isn’t a dumbass republican is into all those conspiracy theories? You are windier than a sack full of farts.

  • Loose Cannon

    AlexP.S. Who said anything about bigfoot, alien anal probes, etc?

    I did.

    Comparing Bush/Cheney/Clinton, etc, to Hitler/Pol Pot/Stalin is as sure sign of mental illness, as believing in alien anal probes, Bigfoot, etc.

    What part of that comparison confuses you, Alex?

    Do you think anyone who isn’t a dumbass republican is into all those conspiracy theories?

    No, anyone who would compare Bush/Cheney/Clinton to Hitler/Pol Pot/Stalin is certainly as ignorant and/or insane as someone who would believe in those conspiracy theories.

    You are windier than a sack full of farts.

    And you really need to pay closer attention to what you read.

    Alex, like most people in this thread, perhaps even yourself, I don’t believe Bush or Cheney or Clinton belong on this list.

    People like you and Gadzooks are so hysterical and emotional about your hatred for Republicans, which I am not one, and Bush/Cheney/Rove, that anyone who simply points out the logical truth is labeled a heretic and a Republican.

    It is a never-ending source of amusement for me to watch all you hysterical, emo-fueled ‘Chicken Little’s’ attempt to insult me over something that we essentially agree on; That Bush/Cheney/Clinton don’t belong on this!

    Alex, Gadzoks – Please post more!

  • Alex

    “Alex, like most people in this thread, perhaps even yourself, I don’t believe Bush or Cheney or Clinton belong on this list.”

    Loose Cannon, not once in my first post did I say that Bush or Cheney should be on this list. You are automatically being defensive over something I didn’t even say! I do in fact agree with you that even though they are very bad men, they don’t belong on this list.

    And as I predicted in my first post, you came back and posted some more smart ass remarks. So I now know that no matter what I say, you’re always going to come back with more smart ass remarks. (AS HOW YOU’VE BEEN DOING WITH ALL OF YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS) I know that inside your head, you are going to be right no matter what! So I’m just going to accept the fact that you are just lost in your own little world of defending whatever you are defending by quoting everybody and then posting your smart ass comments.

    So having said that, this will be my last post. I’m not going to feed your fire by arguing back at you. You mean nothing to me and judging by all of your previous posts, I want nothing to do with you. It seems that judging by all of your previous posts, you are living a sad and lonely life.

    So keep on posting. The more you post, the smaller your balls must be.

    P.S. Who got beat as a child?

    “I did.” ~Loose Cannon

  • Loose_Cannon

    AlexP.S. Who got beat as a child?

    Wow. I am extremely humbled by your reply. I just don’t know what to say.

    I especially like how you took my answer to your previous question, then asked another question, and used my reply to answer THAT previous question. Especially on the subject of child abuse. That’s comedy gold, right there. I can’t think of anything funnier or more mature. You are a fine example of the people who have argued with me here. I can only wish that more people follow your fine example when discussing this topic on this forum.

    And all over a subject we both agree on! Nothing says intellect like arguing over a premise we both agree on.

    Have a great day, Alex!

  • Max

    ive been looking on this sight for a while and have been suprised by some peoples comments.

    This loose cannon guy never shuts up and needs to shut DOWN his computer. Take a rest. Think about how ANGRY teenagers make him and how hes just a fucking loose CANNON BABY! READY TO BLOW! WOO HOOOO! YEAH!

    come on dude. Your aiming your cannon balls at all the wrong. Heres a guy (john madden) who checks him email everyday to see if hes got a response from a 13 year old kid from wyoming.

    heres a guy who instigates. who gets up at 7 in the damn morning to comment on every damn list and back talk anyone who says anything TOOO RADICALLLL! WUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH!!!!!!!!!

    “Have a great day, Alex!”

    you think your professional (i sure as hell am not) but you still tell people to “have a great day” after you completley obliterate them and there comments.

    “That’s comedy gold, right there. I can’t think of anything funnier or more mature. You are a fine example of the people who have argued with me here. I can only wish that more people follow your fine example when discussing this topic on this forum.”

    why (if you sre not an intigator) would you say that?

    lets look at the first sentence shall we?

    “i cant think of anything funnier or more mature”

    you put funny and mature in the same sentence, they just dont go together especially when your trying to make a point.

    you just make people pissed by doing that, you “oxymoronic genius.”

  • Loose_Cannon

    Maxwho gets up at 7 in the damn morning to comment on every damn list and back talk anyone who says anything TOOO RADICALLLL!

    You got me, Max. I get up every morning for work and, in the process of drinking my coffee and checking my email, I respond to this forum! Oh, the horror of it!

    I find it hilarious that I am the subject of your anger because I suggested anyone who thinks Bush and Cheney should be on this list is either mentally ill or ignorant. And every response to me on this forum sounds like it came from a certified mental patient who didn’t take his Xanax that day, including yours.

    But kudos to you for insinuating that Alex is a 13 year old from Wyoming. That’s pretty funny.

    Here’s the thing, Max: I don’t really care if I piss people off. None of you, Gadzooks, Alex, or yourself, can discuss the topic of this forum because you know I’m right and the majority here agree with me.

    So, the only thing you can do is attempt, very poorly, to insult me.

    Very amusing. Please write again!

    Have a great day!

  • bucslim

    At least Loose Cannon can spell, use punctuation and grammar. Max might have had a valid point, but I’m not sure because I couldn’t understand what he was trying to say with all the nin-com-poopery in his post.

    If you’re having problems, write it in Word first, check the spelling and grammar and get back to us later. Besides, Loose Cannon is smarter, funnier and ‘righter’ than you are Max.

  • bucslim

    Oops, I posted this a little early. I should have waited half a day. Sorry dude.

  • SpidaPig

    Motsu I agree with what you said.Good list to whoever created this. I would of liked if they added Mao Zedong and Christopher Columbus.

  • Loose_Cannon

    SpidaPigI would of liked if they added Mao Zedong and Christopher Columbus.

    I’m curious why you would nominate Columbus, Spidapig. What offenses do you consider he committed were the most evil?

  • JasonR

    Well, this has been going on for a while. Does anyone have list by numbers? Mao, Stalin, and Hitler would all have to be near the top. I believe the Japanese killed nearly five million Chinese in the 30’s/40’s. Not sure that any one person is responsible for that. Anyway, thank you for the list. It does cause one to wonder if government itself is the root cause.

  • Loose Cannon

    JasonRI believe the Japanese killed nearly five million Chinese in the 30’s/40’s. Not sure that any one person is responsible for that.

    Good comments, Jason. And I agree that the Japanese aggression, especially in places such as Nanking and Manila, was evil. Historian Chalmers Johnson has written that:

    The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians [i.e. Soviet citizens]; the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese.

    That is real evil.

  • Shakespeare’s Girl

    It’s mind boggling to me that I feel the need to post this, but I’m going to anyway…

    Okay, so to start, I’m relatively new here at ListVerse, and I have to say that I find these debates most entertaining, especially the ones I have an opinion on, like the ongoing Bush debate here. However, I would just like to agree with whoever said that posters should use word to spell check. I find myself much more sympathetic to Loose Cannon, mainly due to the fact that Loose Cannon does not use IM slang or improper english.

    I also find it terribly amusing that we feel the need to argue over something like this at all. And that an argument can go on as long as this has completely astounds me. You have to think that at some point, we would all just lose interest, but that hasn’t seemed to happen.

    So, I would just like to thank you all for an entertaining evening, and tell Loose Cannon that I admire him for his persistance in arguing. I don’t think I would have kept up with it for this long. Good for you for standing up for what you believe in.

  • Shakespeare’s Girl

    Darn it. Negated my own comment by using improper grammer.

  • Loose_Cannon

    Shakespeare’s GirlSo, I would just like to thank you all for an entertaining evening, and tell Loose Cannon that I admire him for his persistance in arguing.

    Thank you, S. Girl, for taking the time to read all the comments, especially mine, and posting your intelligent and informed opinion about them.

    I think we have a real problem in our society today when it comes to rational political dialog. Many of us can see that while we disagree with the current administration on many issues, it’s hardly one of the most evil in history. But as long as one segment of society is screeching ‘Cheney makes Stalin look like Bambi’ there’s never going to be a logical, intelligent debate on the truly most evil people in history and that’s unfortunate because this is a really good and worthwhile discussion.

    It’s unfortunate that many of the people who disagreed with me on this forum felt the need to attack me personally. Insinuating that I was abused as a child or that I manically rush to this forum everyday to debate this topic with children is sign of the decline in logically debating politics. I only hope that I showed that I was rising above it.

    Thanks, again, S. Girl.

  • Monkey Nuts

    COnsidering that Bush’s grandpappy prescott helped finance hitler’s rise to power and used slave labor from concentration camps, then george senior spent his whole time as director of the cia assasinating and deposing democratically elected leaders to put in fascst religious zealots, and then george w pissed on th constitution and now has halliburton building concentration camps and rail cars full of shackles in the U.S., I don;t think that the bushes are too far off the top ten. That being said, our government was complicit in the repatriation and murder of over 2 millions russian soldiers after WWII, and we also facilitated communism’s takeover of half of the world, I don’t think anyone is really blameless.

  • Monkey Nuts

    Loos cannon, you seem to have forgotten that 14 million of those russians died of starvaton and expsoure because stalin sent them to war without weapons or supplies, and that he then murdered 2 million of them who were anti-communist. And Columbus, Ortez and all of the so called “explorers” were all ethnocentric bigots, pirates, rapists, and murderers, that directly and indirectly led to the slaughter of tens of millions of people. Some people might consider that just a lil evil.

  • Monkey Nuts

    A million Iraqis and thousands of Americans dying so that Halliburton can get sweet contracts(which is the actual reason for the war) is a lil evil too. When someone usurps the biggest democracy in the world and turns it into a pillaging ground for business interests and the military industiral complex, that’s kind of a big deal too. And when he rigged an election to do it, well, that doesn’t help either. Ohhh yeah, and being that Cheney personally made millions because of the rise in Halliburton’s stock, and the bush’s made god knows how much from their oil companies because of sky-rocketing gas prices. Oh yea, then he cut the salaries and the benefits for the soldiers he pretends to give a shit about. Oh yeah, the patriot act was kind of the biggest monolithic abuse of federal power ever, destroying the bill of rights, removing the right of habeus corpus, allowing phone taps without warrants. He has basically put into place all the laws and procedures necessary to turn America into a police state if he so chooses, putting himself in charge of the military with no congressional oversight, essentially rendering himself defacto dictator. Allowing the biggest influx of illegal immigrants in history. Totally destroying the American economy and the value of the dollar. Cherry picking intel so that he can start a war that will empty the coffers of America directly into the pockets of big business. Turning America into the most hated country in America. Pardoning his crony so that he serves no time for breaking the law. Putting incompetent fools in every government position he can because they are down with his agenda(loyal bushies). Oh yeah, and defeating a non-partisan bill which was almost unanimously and unilaterally voted for by the entire congress, a bill that gives health care to children! He allowed the Bin-laden family(who the bush family jointly owns oil interests with) to escape the country the day after 911 without even being questioned. Man, what a great president! Is that enough to classify the administration as abject evil? Or would you like me to go on for a few more hours? P.S. this is all off the top of my head, if I actually sat down and researched I could probably right a freakin encyclopedia.

  • Monkey Nuts

    P.S. America probably isn’t the most hated country in America. lol what I meant to say was the world.

  • Coder62

    Not a bad list, I was happy to see Joesith Stalin below Hitler as indeed as some may be aware I appose the Holocaust legend and revise that 6 million Jews were killed.
    That aside perhaps the fact that we know Hitler never ordered the deaths of millions of Jews but did invade, much like every other country in the world has done at some point he should be brought down the scale.
    I must admit I found the comment of millions of Iraq’s being liberated highly amusing, killed is perhaps a better term, I believe the death toll is now around 1.3 million as of January 2008.
    Despite my comments I can understand that the creator of this list perhaps doesn’t wish to invite much critism by putting Hitler further down the list so I do not expect that by any means.

    – Coder62

  • B.L.

    “Holocaust legend.” Now, that’s funny. No, it’s just sad. Really, really sad.

  • bucslim

    Monkey Nuts,

    I was wondering what that noise was under Michael Moore’s desk, now I know. Just keep ignoring the facts and continue on with your happy little ignorant life. Ignore the fact that congress was almost 100 percent behind the decision to go to war. Ignore the fact that Clinton didn’t arrest Bin Laden when the Sudanese government offered him to us. Ignore the reports that the war is actually starting to succeed. Ignore the fact that millions of Iraqi’s now have a chance at living a free life.

    Just keep swallowing whatever that idiot Michael Moore says and someday you’ll be as bloated and smug as he is.

  • Coder62


    Whats sad is that you must believe the Nazis could creamte as eye witnesses state bettwen 5-7 minutes when modern technology takes 50 – 75 minutes for one body, some witnesses state they stuck as many as 8 corpses into one retort to signal allied air craft.

    More sad perhaps is that I’m betting you will ignore that Auschwitz main gas chamber has no traces of cyanide and no blue staining left from heavy useage of Zyklon-B, however the delousing chambers have residue.

    Perhaps I am sad because I disbelieve eye witness testmony, well in that case I am sorry that I disbelieve the, “fountains of blood” or how an SS officer shot a Jewish baby, “one in the eye and then once in the ear” afterwards he noticed its hand was still moving so shot it again.

    Perhaps its not so sad now, read into the subject more and dont take things at face value, your choice.

    – Coder62

  • Frank

    Coder62, eye witness statements aren’t very credible.

    Bucslim, First off, I want to say that those jokes referencing to Michael Moore that made you look like an idiot republican were HILARIOUS!! LOL!!!!!!!!

    Second, it looks like YOU are the one living in your happy little ignorant life of “staying the course” and “DEMOCRACY MEANS FREEDOM” and “Terrorists HATE FREEDOM!” and everything else President Bush says. Keep sucking the Bush dick, my friend!

  • B.L.


    If six million Jews didn’t die, then pray tell, where are there?

    Your reply shows just how sad it remains that people deny what occurred in the Holocaust.

    I’ve done research and I know the truth. What you deny did happen and those people did die, simply because of their ethnicity and their beliefs.

  • Jerome C. Hunt

    Loose Cannon: Your trolling of this thread since last September is bordering on obsessive. Please seek mental health treatment.

  • Loose Cannon

    Jerome C. HuntYour trolling of this thread since last September is bordering on obsessive. Please seek mental health treatment.

    And yet another ad hominem argument?

    Jerome, why not be original, like Monkey Nuts and post some drivel that Precott Bush ‘helped finance hitler’s rise to power’ with one solitary stock in UBC. OR how Cheney is making millions off of Halbuton stock, even though, as pointed out, the only payments Cheney has received from his old employer were earned before he was Vice President?

    Instead, like Max, Gadzooks, and Alex, you attack me!

    Seriously, did some unannounced amnesty release take place for mentally unhinged individuals? Watching Coder62 and people like you, Jerome, it’s hard to believe that it didn’t.

  • Jerome C. Hunt

    Loose Cannon: I just wanted to throw your flippant accusations of poor mental back at you. Comparing Bush & pals to Stalin or Hitler isn’t delusional, it’s just hyperbole. Let them rant and rave all they like. It only strengthens your position.

  • Moonie

    Amen, Jerome.

    Lighten up, Loose Cannon. Get off the computer & get some fresh air.

  • Jerome C. Hunt

    Ahh, that should have read “your flippant accusations of poor mental(health)”

    I guess I must be mentally unhinged. C’est la vie…

  • downhighway61

    here is my (very humble) opinion:
    loose cannon makes sense.
    he’s kind of rude about it, but whatever, it’s the internet, he could be a whole hell of a lot ruder.
    i personally do not understand what the big deal is. he’s right, the president does not belong on this list. (although i disagree that people who think otherwise need to seek mental help, although i do understand why he says that.)

  • wow – almost at the 200 comment mark on this one! I am impressed.

  • Loose Cannon

    jfraterwow – almost at the 200 comment mark on this one! I am impressed.

    Yes, but it’s unfortunate that so many have to do with what time I use the computer, how often I use the computer, any history of child abuse from my past and that I must be a troll on this forum if I’ve been posting since last September.

    And all this from people who essentially agree with me!

    You know, it’s the few hundred thousand nut jobs on the internet that give us sane people a bad name.

  • Jim

    Loose Cannon, you just need to stay the course.

  • JoJo

    Nice site, very inetesting comments, Thanks

  • Loose Cannon: it is impressive – I am quite pleased to see that some of the older lists are still garnering so much attention.

    Oh – and: 200th post!

  • bucslim


    Contrary to what you might think, I’m not W.’s bitch. Just getting tired of the fact that just about every Dem/Liberal voted for the war, and now they want to ride the tide of the popular mindset against the war. They’re like some 7 year old who just broke the lamp and blames it on Larry Lampbreaker.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to sucking Bush’s dick. (at least I can find his, Michael Moore’s is probably hidden under a couple of fat rolls)

  • Frank

    Bucslim, maybe people are opposing the war because they are finding out that it is in fact an illegal invasion and no, there weren’t any weapons of mass destruction. Maybe even the fact that a bunch of people are dying! I guess you find it enjoyable to hear about American troops dying. Everyday

    And what about Osama?!??!?!?! Why have we not captured Osama yet!?!??!?!? Don’t give me that bullshit “Duh…he’s hiding!” BULLSHIT.

    Oh and you just contradicted yourself.

    “Contrary to what you might think, I’m not W.’s bitch.”

    “Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to sucking Bush’s dick.”

    Watch Zeitgeist, you fucking closed minded Republican.

    THINK….it’s not illegal yet.

  • bucslim

    That’s fine you can call me close minded an all that, but you still haven’t spoken to anything I’ve pointed out. And I’m not any more of a contradiction than all of the Liberals trying to hide from their initial votes for the war. Instead of owing up to it, all you liberals want to do is bitch. I suppose you think Al Gore could have found Osama.

    Yes, troops are dying, and that is a sad fact. That’s what happens in a war, it’s not a pillowfight. I happen to believe they are fighting for something worthwhile and they deserve all the support I can give them. And if it were up to you, Sadaam would still be torturing and murdering his own people.

    Read Christopher Hitchens you closed minded Liberal.

  • Loose Cannon

    Frankit is in fact an illegal invasion and no, there weren’t any weapons of mass destruction.

    What exactly is a LEGAL invasion? One sanctioned by the UN? And what was the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq in 1990, was that a LEGAL?

    What bothers me most about Franks’ line of thought is that Saddam is never mentioned as perhaps belonging on this list. Think about it; Saddam used WMD not only on his enemies, but on his own people. Saddam attacked 5 of his peaceful neighbors without provocation in the last 25 years. Saddam condoned mass torture, mass rape and mass killings.

    Instead, the leader of the country that brought Saddam to justice should be included on this list? How twisted and depraved is that?

    Frank, no one likes the thought of anyone dying. That somehow conservatives are rejoicing at the thought of more American deaths, is a typical hyperbole from you extreme leftists. This is exactly what makes your argument intolerant. You expect conservatives to tolerate your opposing view, but accuse them of enjoying the death of our troops.

    Maybe before you accuse anyone of being ‘CLOSE-MINDED’ of other’s political views, maybe you should examine your own OPEN-MINDEDNESS.

  • Frank

    Dear Bucslim and Loose Cannon,

    Please tell me what’s up with Osama. Please tell me where the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were.



    P.S. The only thing Bush is, is a puppet. He’s a puppet for Dick Cheney, and Dick Cheney is a puppet for George H. W. Bush. We’re in Iraq for the oil, that’s all it boils down to.

  • Loose_Cannon

    Dear Frank,

    Gosh, you were so close and then you spoiled it!! Whats with the ‘P.S. Dick Cheney works for G.H.W.Bush?’ That’s a new one!

    Seriously Frank, do us sane people a favor, will you? Get together with your fellow conspirators and tin-foil hat antagonists to get a more cohesive story together that makes even some kinda sense!!

    This whole ‘Prescott-Bush-financed-Hitler, Skull- and-Bones-Society-pledge, W-is-a-puppet-of-Dick Cheney, Dick-Cheney-is-a-puppet-of-W, Dick-Cheney and-W-are-puppets-of-GHW Bush, the-Halocaust never-happen, etc.’ is getting a bit hard to follow!

    Seriously, I can’t keep track of all the insane theories you people come up with! Does Karl Rove work for the Pope? Is the Pope conspiring with Big Foot now? Are they both working with Aliens to invade your buttocks?

    Get back to us when you have a clue.

    Thank you

    Lots of Love

    Sane People Everywhere

  • Loose_Cannon

    Oh, and Max? I was waiting for my wife to get home, then we’re going to watch a movie! Sorry it’s so late.

    Alex? My balls are huge. No matter how much I post they’ll always be bigger then yours.

    Gadzooks? See, no need to curse to get my point across. Oh, and fuck you.

    Jerome? Hope I wasn’t too ‘flippant’ for you. Is it still considered ‘flippant’ if I sincerely think you need mental health treatment?


    Loose Cannon

  • Frank

    Loose Cannon, you are a nut job. You need to seek immediate mental health treatment. Thanks for again not answering any of my questions: “Please tell me what’s up with Osama. Please tell me where the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were.”

    I guess you’re really not the know-it-all that you think you are.

    “Whats with the ‘P.S. Dick Cheney works for G.H.W.Bush?’ That’s a new one!”

    Dick Cheney was V.P. when George H. W. Bush was the pres.

    “This whole ‘Prescott-Bush-financed-Hitler, Skull- and-Bones-Society-pledge, W-is-a-puppet-of-Dick Cheney, Dick-Cheney-is-a-puppet-of-W, Dick-Cheney and-W-are-puppets-of-GHW Bush, the-Halocaust never-happen, etc.’ is getting a bit hard to follow!”

    You’re being an idiot. All I said was Bush was a puppet of Cheney and Cheney is a puppet of H. W. Bush. I never said the Holocaust never happened, or Prescott Bush financed Hitler. Why don’t you try and respond to stuff that I actually said before you babble on with your nonsense.

    And while you’re at it, you can go ahead and tell me why the U.S. government funded Al-Qaeda.

    Might I recommend a great book by Michel Chossudovsky called {America’s “War on Terrorism.”}
    Why don’t you give that book a full read and come back to me. In your next post, please don’t wander off while you’re babbling on about nonsense and start talking about anal probes again. I think you’re a little too obsessed with anal probes.

    But seriously, get back to me when you’re done talking about anal probes.

  • bucslim

    Now we’re getting somewhere, Frank. Now I know your Jr. High education is starting to fail you. Dick Cheney wasn’t HW’s VP – you of all people should remember Dan Quayle – Cheney was Secretary of Defense.

    And stop relying upon the cornerstone of all Liberal thought – where are the WMD?’s. You still are acting like every other stupid democrat with their thumbs up their ass – you all voted to go to war. You ignore that and ignore the good news that comes out of Iraq everyday. You ignore the fact that Bush and Cheney liberated a country from a murderous dictator. They also liberated a country where your mom/daughter/sister would be beheaded if she didn’t cover her face in a man’s presence. I suppose when our troops come home victorious you’ll flip again and say you were for the war all along. It’s the same liberal bullshit we’ve been hearing for years, you all want nothing but bad news to come out of Iraq because it makes you look ‘righter.’ You’re probably one of those idiots who say they support the troops but not the war. Which is to say you support the troops to lose and come home in disgrace. You can’t support the troops without supporting what they do – kill enemies and break shit.

    And just so’s you know, oil runs our economy. It’s the lifeblood of our manufacturing and transportation. As I look out my window there are hundreds of people trying to get to work, not on foot or on bikes but in cars. Cars need oil and gas to run. We use oil to make shit in this country. Without oil you wouldn’t be able to type your banal, juvenile horseshit into your computer because it was probably used to manufacture your keyboard, computer and monitor. It was used to manufacture your clothing, heat your house, deliver your food to the grocery store and you probably got in a car to go get them. Figure it out asshole, you don’t ride a horse anymore. You use as much oil as any of us. So stop being a hypocrite.

    So Frank, finish your juice box while you watch cartoons. I suggested you read Christopher Hitchens a while back, but now I see you haven’t finished coloring the books you have in front of you.

  • Loose_Cannon

    My Dearest Frank,

    You never answered my questions, why in the world would I answer yours? You show the classic ‘scattered thought processes’ of a a typical psychopath.

    And face it, you’re not here to discuss, you’re here to insult and put forth the most insane and complicated conspiracy theory since the JFK assassination. (BTW, it was Col. Mustard in the library with the lead pipe.)

    As soon as you mentioned ‘Zeitgeist’ I knew exactly what kind of person you were.

    For the benefit of the occasional reader I watched ‘Zeitgeist’ and put together a summation of what I watched under ‘Top 10 Worst Living Dictators’.

    Here’s what I wrote:

    If I want to be bored for two hours while watching some propagandist film pocked with factual holes I’ll stick to ‘An Inconvenient Truth’. At least as I understand it, it actually lists some sources and entertains.

    One reviewer wrote of this film: ‘The over-all temper of the video is rather like the John Birch Society on acid, with interludes by Harry Smith.’

    Even the Producer of the film states “It is my hope that people will not take what is said in the film as the truth . . .”

    For those who don’t wish to subject themselves to what the reviewer wrote as “like I was getting Malcolm McDowell’s treatment in Clockwork Orange: eyes pried wide open while getting bombarded with quick-cut atrocity photos” picture this:

    1) 9/11 Conspiracy claims
    2) The ultra-rich have been secretly manufacturing wars.
    3)Christianity is used by the rich and powerful to control people.

    Just your run-of-the-mill left-wing, hysterical conspiracy, propaganda film lacking sources and facts.

    It was the most insane, over-the-rainbow, dark-side-of-the-moon, scattered-thought-psychopathic-display I’ve ever seen. And I’ve watched ‘The Fountain’, so I know what I’m talking about.

    ‘Zeitgeist’ makes Andy Warhols’ Four Stars look like a Tim Allen movie. I can not imagine anyone except the most rabid, crazed, tin-foil- hat-Bush ‘Conspiratist’ actually sitting through the entire movie.

    Frank, I’m not interested in contributing to your psychosis. I’m no Bush fanboy and like most Americans who disapprove of the current administration, I don’t like the current war in Iraq. But I don’t believe W/Cheney/GHW Bush are the incarnate of Stalin, Vlad the Impaler, and Hitler rolled up into one, nor do I believe the most complicated and cleverly planned government conspiracy in the history of the world was carried out by a leader who can’t go two paragraphs without mispronouncing a word.

    Whatever medication they might be giving you, Frank, it’s time to review the dosage and maybe up it a bit.

    Lots and Lots of Love, Frank.
    Get well soon!

    Loose Cannon

  • bucslim

    Loose Cannon – stop making sense, you’re giving me a woody.

  • Loose Cannon

    Bucslim – Loose Cannon – stop making sense, you’re giving me a woody.

    It’s the way the sunlight hits my brunette hair when I say ‘Zeitgeist’ , isn’t it?

  • Frank

    You guys are about as lost as the Christians who say God hates fags!

  • Frank

    World Trade Center Building 7 didn’t blow itself up!

  • Loose_Cannon

    FrankWorld Trade Center Building 7 didn’t blow itself up!

    Thank you, Frank. Perfect. Seriously, I don’t think you could have posted a more telling and accurate disclosure of your mental health. Bravo!

    I was worried you might leave us with just a comparison with Fred Phelps, but ‘ol Frank never let’s me down. You definitely delivered with that line!

  • Frank

    Loose Cannon, why don’t you take the time to explain to me why WTC Building 7 fell, since you know everything in the entire history of the universe.

  • Frank

    “but ‘ol Frank never let’s me down.”


  • Lady_Bug

    There is nothing Evil about this ppl in any way.
    The reason you ppl cant talorate them is that you r all forced to beilieve in a made up rule of so called cevelized world that its such big deal of you kill something or some one which i dont undrestand. you think by demonizing ppl like stalin you can accumplish anything.They killed a few ppl ,so what? have you ever thought that ppl who dies throughout history maybe really deserved to die?

  • Awat

    Saddam killed 140000 kurds just in one millitary operation.
    killed another 5000 kurds childs and old men in the town Halabja with chemical wapon. He is nummber one newst evil.
    Arabs are the worth nation on earth

  • Herbert

    If typos were a sexual fantasy of mine, I would beat off to that previous comment.

  • passing through

    Wow, loose cannon — what an annoying asshole.

  • Loose_Cannon

    passing throughWow, loose cannon — what an annoying asshole.

    Let’s not try to judge Frank too harshly. He’s most likely very sick.

  • JasonR

    Well, this is really deteriorating lately. Perhaps there should be a time limit on comments. No one is even talking about the list anymore … just personal attacks. Anyway, I do think Bush/Cheney are not very nice people and that Iraq was a huge mistake. They don’t get a place in my top ten though. Lots of mass murderers in history. Maybe Bush/Cheney would make my top 100, but not my top 10.

  • Frank

    Loose Cannon is just lost in his own little world of labeling anyone who disagrees with him as “mentally unstable”. It’s sad, really.

  • avi

    julian:i don’t really think he should be on here…i guess this is really all about what you say most evil means (as it is with a lot of lists)

  • avi

    to anyone who sugessted bush, bush had ideas that killed, but i wouldn’t say he’s actually that evil

  • passing through

    maybe i should rephrase this:

    Loose Cannon is one hell of an annoying asshole!


  • Tight Cannon

    ^ LOL! ^

  • Tight Cannon

    Loose Cannon….more like loose stool!

  • cristian

    how about the guy who killed bambi’s mom?

  • Dirk

    Not much of a loose cannon, is he? More like a habitual line stepper with a cut & paste debate style.

  • roor

    i think hitler deserve the first place

  • Tight Cannon

    Dirk, watch what you say about loose cannon (a.k.a. loose stool).

    He might think you are mentally ill!

  • Dirk

    Tight Cannon: I’ll keep an eye out for him and his shitty pants.

    ps My psychiatrist thinks he’s an asshole

  • avi

    bush is not evil in the usual sense, hes just a very bad decision maker

  • Kayla

    I’m kinda confused.. For number eight it says “Ruhollah Khomeini” but then it starts out saying “Ayatollah Khomeini was the….” Is it Ayatollah or Ruhollah?

  • Pingback: Latest Top 10 Most Commented on Lists - The List Universe()

  • Northern girl

    Ok. Been reading all the comments and hopefully haven’t missed anything important. Monkey Nuts- totally agree with you. The whole Iraq war/invasion was all so Halliburton could get the military contracts and maybe some oil later on. And we all know Cheney and Baker and the rest of the kronies run Halliburton.

    So, Bush/Cheney on this evil list? Nope. Bush in the top ten STUPIDEST men of all time list, absolutely. Cheney in the top ten of MOST MANIPULATIVE LYING 2-FACED BASTARDS list of all time. oh yeah. Bush isn’t capable of any independent thought, so that rules him out of being evil and plotting anything. Maybe old man Bush is also in there running part of the show, who knows.

    All of you who are reacting emotionally about whether America was right or wrong in invading Iraq, please take a step back and stop thinking emotionally. Think of the facts. Some that have come out and those that will come out in the future. Monkey Nuts hit the nail on the head; sorry, this is not a slam on America, it is merely the truth of what was the underlying reason for the Iraq invasion. Sending soldiers to die for military contracts is surely evil; but the death toll in Iraq between military and civilians isn’t in the same ballpark as the others’ accomplishments on the list.
    Its never pleasant to learn that your country lied to you and manipulated facts so as to fool Congress into supporting the ‘war’.

    ps. Yes, Saddam and his sons were evil and horrible and killing them was definitely a good thing; but mowing down a country to do it wouldn’t have been my first choice.

  • Cherry

    Gopal, love your insight on the Khomeini matter, much respect…and ‘chapeau bas’ to Jfrater as always :)

    Personally speaking my family, like many others, fled Iraq back to Iran during Saddam’s rise to unyielding power. My aunts, uncles and grandparents were amongst the *lucky* ones to be placed in torture camps rather than horrendously murdered upon sight. I’m just happy I still have my family!

    As for Khomeini being a “spiritual man”, I personally strongly disagree with any religious figure practicing politics via fanaticism on any one nation under their rule. I mean it must’ve come as a big shock to the local christians, jews and non-practicing/liberal muslims to have to live under the suffocating circumstances set by the Khomeini regime. If you’re gonna talk about real spiritual men in Islam consider Imam Moussa Al-Sader!
    Also, as cliche as it has become, there is no black & white, meaning the Shah of Iran wasn’t any better really. I see Iran’s recent history having gone from shit to shittier by these men in power.

    I don’t want to start a word feud or anything,I know how passionate supporters of certain leaders can get, but that is my take on things! We gotta have some tolerance..

    (oh and Jfrater, it’d be nice to see Saddam’s ugly mug on one of those lists:)

  • Bananas

    What about recent evil people, such as Osama Bin Ladin, or Fidel Castro, (though I heard he retired this morning) I am apppauled that someone would dare compare Cheney to Stalin! True, Dick is a horrible idiot who needs to live in a hole for a few years, but hes not evil.

  • Truth

    What did Osama Bin Ladin do? And please don’t say he was in charge of 9/11. If you say that, you really need to do more research on what really happened and stop relying on what our ‘leaders’ told us what happened.

  • SocialButterfly

    Truth: you could dry that out and fertilize the lawn… While I agree that we should not rely on the person governing our country and have our own opinions… I do believe that Osama Bin Laden had a big part in the Trade Center bombings.

  • SlickWilly


    Bin Laden *did* fund the terrorist attacks on 9/11. Assuming that you are right, though, and he played no part in it, Bin Laden was still the leader (and some think one of the original founders) of the terrorist organization Al-Qaeda, the most prolific, organized militant jihadist organization in the world. Also the most well-organized and well-funded terrorist organization in the world, some of the methods of which include: plane hijackings, prisoner torture and decapitation for propaganda purposes, organized bombings of major international institutions (not to mention organized bombings of “civilian” townships throughout the middle east), suicide bombings, forced suicide bombings utilizing children and the invalid, kidnappings, rape and torture of political opponents and dissidents, as well as the self-proclaimed champion of a literal, reactionary translation of the Qur’an that preaches mass genocide and iron-fisted, theist, misogynistic, totalitarian regimes. Bin Laden not only led this organization, but fed it through massive funds from his personal fortune, and advocated the widespread use of violence and terror to acheive his goals. Assuming he had no part in 9/11 (which he did – he was one of the first to publicly take credit for his role in the Sep. 11 hijackings), how could you still not consider this man evil?


    Bush was presented with a bill to put chemical indicators in all household poisons. This would save tens of thousands of children every year, but he vetoed it because it would have cost his corporate buddies (who are making record profit) a little extra money.

  • God help me

    It scares me to no end that people with such ill-informed opinions vote.

    Now before anyone accuses me of wanting to disenfranchise the stupid; I only said it scares me, not that they shouldn’t have the right to vote.

    Loose_cannon and bucslim, keep the faith… there are still some sane folks out here.

  • Edgardo

    And the winner is… GEORGE BUSH! hypocrisy and foolishness added

  • MarkJ

    Wasn’t there some big rumor that Walt Disney was evil?

  • davo

    Khomeini should be on the “top ten fucking idiots” list

  • Truth

    9/11 was a controlled demolition.

  • concernedcitizen

    How easily is history distorted by the winners. Had WWII had a different outcome, who do you think would be called evil by the Japanese? (just a hint: who dropped the bomb?)

    As to the criticism about the labour camps and such in USSR, might i recall a nice vacation resort in Cuba, called Guantanamo Bay? The way you guys are defending the Bushkeviks, you sure won’t be spending any vacation time there! As for the rest of us….. we better not wear a long beard while trying to board a plane…

    Just to get it straight…. lying to your own people, going to unprovoked war (sorry, PREEMPTIVE), getting several hundred thousand people dead (iraqis are people too, you know), millions homeless and fleeing, and then have the gut to say “God told me” is not being evil… of course not.

    History is *always* distorted in favor of the winners of every conflict. During the war, both sides are fighting for “righteousness”, or to avenge some “evil outsiders threating the homeland”. If you win, you get to write you defeated the evil doers. Weird thing is, no matter how hard i try to say i win the lotto, i never do. Saying something is blue doesnt make it so. And as long as people can take a step back and look at events with some kind of distance, its fairly easy to see that, in most conflicts, there never was a good-vs-evil conflict. Only a conflict of interests. The good-vs-evil part came along to incite the average joe to pick up arms and forget family and friend and get killed. That is true evil.

    (And before you quote Hitler killing millions of jews in concentration camps, which he did, he was not the only one to use those camps. Russia had its gullags and the US had the Japanese round up and carried to similar camps too. Not to mention the vacation resort in Cuba).

    Thank you for your time,

  • concernedcitizen

    @Loose Cannon:

    What is so weird about:

    1) 9/11 Conspiracy claims
    2) The ultra-rich have been secretly manufacturing wars.
    3)Christianity is used by the rich and powerful to control people.

    being true? Is it any less legitimate than sitting through a UN Council session blabbering about Iraqi transmissions that prove nothing AND STILL get to invade a country based on completely false claims?

    And specifically about number 3, it has been used that way since the roman emperors who, to strenghten their control of the empire, adopted religion to do it. They were rich and powerful. And about number 2? Who gets to decide a country goes to war? The average joe? Or the rich and powerful presidents and “entourage”? As to number 1, i secretely hope its false, but my hope is decreasing with every destroyed paper by the administration.


  • Like many liberal thinkers point out- How does a guy in a cave in dire need of continuous dialysis treatments plan something like 9-11? Let alone slip through intelligence agencies like some kind of fox.

    Do I think Bush and co was behind 9-11? No. Cheney and his co? No. As insipid as the former is and as greedy as the latter is I don’t think they’d plan the deaths of 3,000+ people (Iraq is a different story). However did they know about it? You better damn well believe it or the billions of dollars going into the CIA better be funding something else that’s useful.

  • bucslim

    Uh concerned citizen – are you comparing what the US did to Japanese Americans to what Hitler did to the Jews? I don’t think you’re using the word ‘similar’ correctly.

    Sending people to the gas chamber or oven isn’t ‘similar’ to what the US did to Japanese folk. Which is not to say that I condone it, but we just got our shit hauled at Pearl Harbor and many of our soldiers lost their lives to an unprovoked Japanese attack. We couldn’t be sure at the time that people of Japanese decent would be sympathetic to what their former countryman had done and try to be subversive. That recent Ken Burns documentary on WWII pointed out that many people thought Japan was going to attack the mainland.

    I think you’ll find that internment camps weren’t the same as sending millions of people to their death.

  • bucslim

    And also, concerned citizen, as for your conspiracy rant in comment # 250, I think it’s time you moved out of your parents basement and read a few books.

    I’ve stated a hundred times over and most of you liberals out there seem to keep forgetting that all of you voted for us to go to war. Not just the rich and powerful Presidential ‘entourage,’ whatever the hell that means. Hell even Clinton’s official policy was a regime change in Iraq.

  • Milton C. Head


    Can’t concerned citizen read books in his/her parent’s basement?

    You seem to get away with it.

  • concernedcitizen


    Please dont include me in that number, because as much as i’d like to vote for everybody else OVER bushkevik, i can’t do it from over here in europe (the internet comes all the way here too, you know, its not an american prerogative).

    Entourage is a french expression. Roughly translates to his chums or buddies.

    And its not the goal im discussing, Saddam was no saint, its the means. And the moment you forget the means used to attain the goals, you’ve lowered to their standards.

    Regime change could be attained as easily as was done in Honduras, for instance. Remember the Contras? The CIA does.

    And it was not a conspiracy rant. Its a list of historical facts. I never implied the roman emperors conspired with Bush, i believe not even his radio-tooth can speak with them, only with god.
    But i totally restate the same. Religion has been used to convince and coerce the people into fighting worthless wars over rich people’s interests. The gold plundered during the crusades did not end up in the people’s purses, but in the kings and rulers coffers. Thats not a conspiracy, thats plain simple brain washing. “In the name of god and all thats holy, go kill infidels and the kingdom of heaven shall be yours!”

    Did you noticed how i did not push the 9-11 line?


  • concernedcitizen

    @bucslim (#252): Sorry for not addressing this on the previous post.

    I may not have explained myself properly. I was not trying to compare the concentration camps of wwii in europe with the ones on the US during the same time. Only their existence. And there were similar camps in both sides. No gas chambers on the american ones, but the simple fact that they existed illustrates that in wartime mankind can, and will, do the most horrific things conceivable or not.

    But your rationale is not valid. You say the americans round up the Japanese because they were afraid of them and wanted to control them. Well, the germans wanted to control the jews too. And seize their properties. The fact alone of rounding up a group of people based on the ethnic or cultural background is *exactly* the same.

    Thank you for your time,

  • Ron

    Well said, CC

  • Frank


    I love how all of you republicans say all of the democrats voted to go to war.

    First, I have NEVER supported the never-ending war of terror.

    Second, At the time after 9/11, just about everybody in the U.S. was manipulated into supporting the war so we can kill the ‘terrorists’ that: ran into the world trade centers, made WTC building 7 mysteriously collapse, and for apparently shooting a cruise missile into the pentagon.

  • I honestly can’t believe people would say that anyone from the Bush administration belongs on this list. It’s ridiculous and quite mind-boggling to think about. Seriously. I kind of agree with Loose Cannon, y’all need mental help.

    I also can’t believe people actually believe there was no Holocaust. I can’t even wrap my head around that one!

    I agree with the idea that schools in America are committing a crime to society by not teaching about many of these evil men. I had only heard of a few of them until now, and some of them I had learned of from TV and books, not in class. (We covered Hitler and Stalin in History, Robespierre in French class, that’s about it.)

    I remember learning about the Japanese camps during WWII, I think those should be talked about more in schools. We Americans shouldn’t forget that we too are capable of such terrible acts in hopes that we don’t commit the same atrocities again. (I’m guessing that we didn’t round up ALL of the Muslim-Americans after 9-11. It is unfortunate that they still received unfair treatment and were discriminated against, but it could have been a lot worse than it was, IMO.)

    I’m not smart like you people, so if I’m wrong about stuff feel free to point it out nicely. :)

  • Remy

    lol @ putting stalin in number 1, or even in the top 10. The famine in ukraine wasn’t him “killing 2.5-10 million people” any other “Stalin killed X million people” usually comes with no evidence WHATSOEVER. Its typical anti-communist rubbish.

  • Allam

    where is saddam hussein ?
    i think ur unfair saying khamena2i from iran

  • Sutemi

    The list is believable because Stalin is number one! Very good!

    Robespierre was surprising choice, but come to think of it he fits in to the list very well…

  • Kelber

    Ed Gein? BTK killer? other than that, great, i think Hitler should have been number one, but you did a good kob!

  • concernedcitizen

    @Miss Destiny (259)


    Please check here: (it has sources too, its not just a rant). It details the existence of concentration camps in the US -TODAY-. (and its not guantanamo holiday inn).

    The holocaust is an historic fact, no dispute there, other than it was recorded as historic fact by the winners. I am not implying it didnt exist, obviously it did. Im just pointing out that history is ALWAYS written by the winners, always making them look better than they were and the losers worst than they were. Its human nature.

    @Sutemi (262)
    Stalin as #1 is plain simply communist brain wash… red scare anyone?

    Where are the spanish conquistadores that so diligently slaughtered millions in South America?
    Where is the american president who signed the order to drop the two bombs in Japan? Whats the death toll on those two blasts ALONE? Had the axis won WWII, the allied leadership would have been trialed for war crimes, just like the axis leaders were. This issue is not, and never will be, black and white. Dark shades of gray are everywhere.

    Thank you very much for your time,

  • SpokenFor

    ok, Tepes was a bitch, randomly spiking 30 000 of his own people, setting alight the homeless and the handicapped…He should be number One.

    Now also consider Genghis Khan…poured molten gold into people’s ears etc…had his men set up pyramids of severed heads from destroyed villages…also please note the Genghis quote: “The greatest joy a man can have is to see another man cry, to take away his possessions, to make love to his wives and daughters..”

    Hitler wasn’t really evil…his theories were just crackpot stupid.

    Have a nice day!! Maybe I will make it onto this list someday!!

  • Anon

    how about Ioan Seceleanu? Not the diplomat, but rather his son.

  • spidermom

    Intresting list. It is good that you pointed out the fact that you could have made a top 100 and still had more than enough for a second list. The people that came looking for the BTK and other sereal killers, while I agree they were ecil I do not agree they are as bad as stallin or Pol Pot. killing 10 or 20 hardly compares to 100 thousand and more. Just wondering if you were to further your list where would you rate the Japanese military in Nanjing. I am teaching a class and we have reached the infamous “Rape of Nanking”

  • John Wayen

    Why is Mao not on the list? he killed more than possibly Stalin and definitely more than Hitler. Hirohito was proven innocent at the end of the war, by Douglas MacAuther why is it possible that the allies allow the emperor to live on if he had committed a crime. The Royal family of Japan are still the decedent from Hirohito. It should have been Prime Minister Tojo who you should have put on the list instead. Why is Linine not on the “possible” list, he has killed many in his days. And who ever consider putting Bush on the list are very bio

  • John Wayen

    Why is Mao not on the list? he killed more than possibly Stalin and definitely more than Hitler. Hirohito was proven innocent at the end of the war, by Douglas MacAuther why is it possible that the allies allow the emperor to live on if he had committed a crime. The Royal family of Japan are still the decedent from Hirohito. It should have been Prime Minister Tojo who you should have put on the list instead. Why is Linine not on the “possible” list, he has killed many in his days. And who ever consider putting Bush on the list is very bies. Any other once I am not too sure about. just a reminder, the most recent one is not the worst compare to what history can provide us (not taking away that Hussin is bad)

  • Randall


    Hirohito was not “proven innocent” at the end of the war–by MacArthur or anyone else–he was in essence excused as a possible defendant for the simple reason of expediency; namely, that the emperor, in his traditional position as spiritual/titular leader of the Japanese people (even if in actual practice he was little more than a figurehead) was more of an asset than a liability in dealing with Japan’s civilian population as well as the military. The Emperor was a useful symbol, in other words–and if he capitulated to Allied occupation and control, then the populace and military would be likely to follow–and continue to remain manageable thereafter. If the Emperor had been deposed and tried as a criminal, this could have sparked riots and rebellion–something the Allies were anxious to avoid. It was infinitely more convenient to “look the other way” regarding Hirohito’s complicity in the war, and make use of him as a stabilizing influence.

    Nevertheless, while Tojo was MORE responsible for Japan’s militarism during the war, Hirohito was far from “innocent.” In fact, Tojo was not even prime minister during the entire time period building up to Pearl Harbor. He was a major player behind the scenes—but he was not yet the head of government calling all the shots.

    • it

      Actually, Hirohito was more responsible for the war than Tojo. At least Tojo wasn’t responsible for the genocides of the Asian countries. Hirohito was responsible for the Nanking massacre and other crimes. I have also learned that Americans deliberately keep him away from trial, even though they new he was responsible. The did not put him on trial because they thought it would be good for Japain.

  • Clovis Sangrail

    I so want to add my boss to that list! :p

  • Eric Gmeinder

    Odd. The original list had Khomeini at #10, Hirohito at #8, Leopold at #7, Pol Pot at #6, and Attila at #5. There was no good reason for changing the order, or for adding Amin.

  • doug1961

    i realize this is a very late post but… where is harry truman? the man who ordered the annihilation of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians? especially since hirohito is on the list. the dropping of the atomic bomb was not only unconscienable but also unnecessary. japan was done, surrender inevitable.

  • kiwiboi

    “where is harry truman?”

    doug – sorry to have to break the news to you, but Harry died. Some years back ;)

  • davesays

    atila the hun is one ugly f*ck

  • Solensdrottning

    Is it just me, or does that picture of Hitler look like Hugh Laurey from “House”?

  • PityTheNation

    I am surprised Cheney did not make it to the list…

  • PityTheNation

    Just because Bush and Cheney had not killed someone face to face or tortured someone with their own hands doesnt make what they have done or caused any less evil.. They are responsible for upwards of a million deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan and who knows maybe Iran next.. The US is the only country to have used a Nuclear weapon without caring who got killed in the process.. Globalization and the IMF and World Bank are serving to increase the gap between the poor and wealthy indirectly possibly causing the deaths of millions more who cannot feed themselves. They care for their citizens alot.. sure we saw that after Katrina and their disregard for the fact that their wars abroad are creating terrorists to multiply exponentially. Then there is ABu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Secret CIA prisons.. They have not destroyed the constitution completely.. but not for a lack of want. They are trying through the Patriot Act and FISA and of course NSPD 51 and many others. So yeah maybe they are not on par with someone who impaled or boiled their victims (altho they have no problem sending prisoners to countries who do torture) I think they deserve a place on a list like this.

  • PityTheNation

    Maybe he should make a list for the most evil governments or countries ;) unfortunately the havoc wreaked by the US cannot be blamed on one person… ANyway love these lists

  • Kelien

    Im not sure these men count as the most evil. They are all political leaders. I find it hard to believe that you can put people who are highly respected by their own people at least in with the most Evil. Vlad is concidered a national hero in Romania. He did what he had to in order to keep the Turks from invading. Don’t think for an instant the Turks weren’t just as blood thirsty. The church used him and then cast him aside. He wasn’t evil. He was tormented.

    Then Attila the Hun, What makes him any more evil than Alexander the Great or Hanibal? They both did their best to conqure the known world. Or even the Irish and Viking raiders? Then to put Stalen as more evil than Adolf Hitler? Im sorry but this list is just completely screwed up.

    If you change nothing else about it at least change it to top ten most evil goveremental leaders rather than the top ten most evil men.

  • Natas

    that Austraian bastard who imprisoned his daughter for 24 years should be on this list – oh and Dick Cheney of course!

  • Natas

    errr I mean AUSTRIAN bastard – evil fucker

  • Uryuujin

    Oi! Hirohito was not an Evil Person. He was being manipulated by the Military, who had gotten over the ‘Emperor is God’ superstition and forced him to do as they said, on threats of death. Now, it is true that the crimes the Japanese Committed at Nanking was something that many considered unforgivable, it was technically not his fault. You try and tell someone who threatens to kill you ‘No’ just to have an entire Nation fall into chaos.

  • Old S

    i really think Vlad should be higher, if evil is rated on the way acts are carried out, reasons for it and other such things, he should definetly be up high.
    Impaling lots n lots of people, imapling people to scare away an enemy army, inviting all the poor people to a dinner, and then burning them alive to eliminate poverty, having a dungeon right below his bed, to hear the screams and groans of his victims, not impaling people quickly but allowin them to slowly slide down to make a more gruesome death, when he was locked up he impaled bugs and put them on his little shelf thingy as his “trophies”, all this comin from that documentary on him, he may not of killin the most people, but hell he killed the most people gruesomely and got pleasure out of it (locked under his bedroom to hear the screams).

    • Radu Vis

      how can u be that stupid. Impaling was a form of punishment like electric chair today. and those tortures u mentioned are just pure MYTHOLOGY. nobody knows exactly what happened. what u said is Hollywood and not history. read facts before posting shit like this. stop spreading false in formations coz u offend people

  • lee

    i wont to ask to all ho bilev in the heaven god thy you shod ask the one ho have than all the trabel and problem in the first place to solv woth hem salf than he creat the devil and he blan hem fol all the things that the father creat hem to do the father is the one ho ting that the human are a bord game to play with he say that he is the good and he creat the devil he the one ho kild hes son for hes own folt he say that hem love the human wan he creat the evil to harm the human he is the one ho trow the rock and hiad hes hand that is the heaven father

  • Old S

    @kelien, this list isn’t very correct at all, maybe most ‘Evil Leaders’ would make more sense. in contrast to the most gruesome murders and other things the people who carried out the acts of murder and other such things, they are truely more evil then these men who didnt really have to see the acts, just tell people to do it for them.

    you may say they are evil for ordering it and the people who do it are just pawns but, those people have counciousses as everyone does, so they should also be up in thier with the leader.

  • well, i would just like to note one thing… many have said that this person should or shouldnt be in, or that person, or etc… the fact is that no list can be perfect, as all these men (as well as every other even considerable) had both supporters and enemies, every man on this list was both a hero and a monster, so this list is obviously innacurate, as will be any.

  • emanuwel

    hi i am 26m from malta i wont to ask all human

    ho have chusd thow’s human as evil ho is the one that have creat the evil in the first place and all human that are children of the heaven father will be than to them the same that he than to hes son for hes own folt by blaming same one that he creat in the fist place

    if there is any one thay know and that can tell that the father is the good pls see all that hee than befor say that thow’s human are evil not becos thay chust to be but becos thay have ben creatid from ho is the heaven father

  • Allie

    what about king henry the 8th
    but i guess that would need to be a different list

  • demacrat

    where the fuck is osama

  • demacrat

    osama binladin if i spelled it correct. is the reason no arabic or any people that might look the part can go into a airport without a random security check.

  • demacrat

    o and also out of a 1000 bush and dick cheney should be on there too :)

  • thomas

    Why is Lenin not in there, most people don’t know this but Stalin only did what Lenin WANTED to do, he wrote it al down and stalin did it.

  • manuwel

    all of us know that evil 1 or 1000000 evil human thay are same evil but for the father to stop them is not rayt so he agrey to do harm by using tham in a way that no one ander stend and wane he cam he well be loockd as the good fighting the bad in human isee sow

    i sugest to put hes name in the way that thows evil top 10 are mathe to sow ho is tham crater be with tham to

  • For Shizzle

    Emperor Hirohito had no power over the military. There was a military leader.Where is Dick Cheney

  • jajdude

    Thought Mao might be there too.

  • meme

    tjgrs, i only read few posts but this one got me, How can u say someone was a ‘ amzing leader but the most messed up man ever’ that goes 4 hirohito and hitler, so what ur saying is, “sure hitler killed milloions, and hirohito allowed women raped and babys thrown through the air and landing on knives, is mad and disgusting, but they were amazing leaders 4 the things they achived apart from that”??????????????

    these are NOT amzing ppl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is nothing there 2 be amazed by?! except understanding how the ppl was ‘brain washed’ 2 agree with them THROUGH FEAR!! thats not amazing, whatever they achieved is not amazing, they killed millions/thousands painfully, 2 get what they wanted 2 archive, HOW IS THAT AMAZING??? should britain do that 2?? so it would b known 4 something amazing?? how disgusting!! do u think slavery was in ‘some way’ amazing, 4 how Britain/America is today????

    SORRY but that post did kinda really disgust me *shocked eyes* 8-0 last point THAY ARE NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM AMZING PPL!! GOOD GRIVE SHOULD THERE BE PPL LIKE THEM 2 DAY, GOOD HELP THE PPL (even thou im not religious!) but i hope these ”amzing’ ppl will die out!!!!!!!!!!!

    finished lol!

    but i am intrested in the most hated and evil ppl, so thanks 4 this. even if it does get me emotional, im human!!

    god let those victims rest in peace 4ever! xxx

  • Tom

    Where is Göran Persson?

  • Plasma Twa 2

    Hirohito was not evil. Tojo was.

    If Stalin belongs on the list, I think Zedong is more then qualified. For all he did wrong, Stalin turned the USSR into the strongest in the world. Without him, we’d all be praising our Fuhrer right now.

  • K-Slim

    These bizzare-o red-neck comment wars freak me out. How can so many people be so ignorant?

  • Yun

    Re. Bush/Cheney: I love how people complain about how free speech is dying and/or Bush is a fascist dictator ON A PUBLIC FORUM WITH THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE READING. Through the very act of posting without fear they prove themselves wrong.

    Re. Mao: My understanding is that Mao pales in comparison to his Communist peers. The Cultural Revolution was nothing to be proud of, to be sure, but the majority of Mao related deaths were due to incompetence (IE an inability to manage the economy and a misguided belief that ideology was a better qualification in an adviser than knowledge) rather than actual oppression. Not that there wasn’t plenty of that to go around, but Mao’s brand of oppression was decidedly less murderous than Stalin, Castro, Pol Pot, etc.

    Re. US Presidents: The only one I would even consider would be Truman, and even then there is sufficient evidence that he felt remorse for the atomic bomb drops that he earns a pardon. No one on this list showed anywhere near that much humanity.

    Re. Attila: This is the only one actually on the list I have a problem with. For his time, Attila was nothing more than a land hungry warlord: Just like Caesar, Alexander, Charlemagne, and just about every other political leader of the day. While I normally oppose historical revisionism in the name of making it less “Eurocentric” this is one case where I think it is justified. The Huns were just another empire in an age where Imperialism was considered the norm. The only reason Western historians consider Genghis and Attila evil was because they attacked the West.

  • Cameoflage

    (I read about half these comments before I lost patience and skipped to the bottom, but I doubt anything significant has changed since then.)

    I would say that the people ranking Bush and/or Cheney as deserving of a place on the list are suffering from a severe lack of perspective, rather than mentally ill (or, at the very least, most of them aren’t; I can make no such claim for the true fanatics). I’m hardly a fan of the Bush administration, but they would need to set up a full-fledged dictatorship and/or commit genocide before they merited even being considered for inclusion. All they’ve done so far, unless I’m missing something, is start a war and infringe upon the liberties of the people, which is pretty run-of-the-mill for world leaders throughout history.

    Secondly, I really don’t think that anyone (human or deity) should be blamed for the atrocities committed on their behalf, assuming that their only actual connection to said atrocities was that their followers were responsible for them. On a related topic, I would exclude religious figures from this list on the grounds that it’s impossible to definitively prove most religious beliefs; while there have been arguments over who belongs on this list, no one has questioned, or had reason to question, the very existence of any of these men.

  • Daniel Wallin

    where is Mao?

  • Ash

    As to the Vlad Tepes (vlad the impaler)one, I see how you would consider him being an evil man. But do you take into accord that these people were probably his enemies (Turkish)? They were waging a war, and people do inhumane things in desperate time to keep the support of the people and WIN.
    While Vlad Tepes did some things I don’t necessarily agree with, I think he was a leader, and that was what his people needed.
    So I am still very proud to say I am a descendant of his.

    As to Adolf Hitler.
    He was a genius. It cannot be denied. he was just an evil/crazy genius. But he had great war methods and persuasive skills.

  • rushfan

    **But he had great war methods and persuasive skills.**

    um, I don’t think that makes him a genius.

  • murrayf3

    Remember rushfan
    Hitler came from nowhere…so to speak. One year he was in jail writing his racist and extremist book “mein kampf”, the next, he was Germany’s leader tearing up the Treaty of Versailles by rebulding and modernising Germany’s army.
    By taking back land, taking over countries, carrying out the holocost, turning views, bullying great leaders and countries, almost succeeding in taking over the whole of Europe, I think Hitler deserves the title of a great military genius.
    After all, his success was not pure fortune, it all had been planned when Germany had collapsed after the Great war.

    And while im posting, please people, stop asking and stating “where’s Bush?” “what about Osama Bin Ladin?” its fucking rediculous. The list is not “potentially the most evil”, has Bush killed millions of people? Has Osama?

  • BakuBaku

    Saying that hirohito was eil is a bunch of bullshit. Though beloved in the eyes of the pulic, almost no action made by the Japanese was ever dictated or thought up by Hirohito. The only descision that hirohito made was to bomb pearl harbor. The real evil man you want is General Hideki Tojo.

  • avi

    Where is mao

  • Insight

    While we’re at it lets add the bombing of Dresden, if you live in the south I’m sure Sherman, Grant, and Lincoln would be the top 3, if you lived in Gaul the top 10 would consist of all Romans, if you were the Red Sox you’d say the Yankees. Look, this is a subjective list created by Jfrater. While America certainly hasn’t be perfect (the interment of the Japanese citizens during WWII comes to mind) I don’t think one single leader has been “evil” enough to take the spot of one of those listed above.

    I appreciate the point you were trying to make and agree with it, but I must strongly object to your generalizations. To say that southerners believe Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman were as evil as Hitler and the other people on this list, which I like by the way though it is very hard to leave it at 10, is ridiculous and insulting. Do you honestly think people in the south hate Lincoln? Everyone loves Lincoln, except a very few extremists nuts and most of his own party at the time. Most southerns in regaurd to the civil war somewhat admire Grant’s ability to defat General’s like Lee and Jackson. The whole group fought together in the Mexican-American wars and Lee was the first person asked to lead the U.S. troops in the civil war. As for Sherman, there are things to be said about his cruelty towards civilains although they are less popular to print. Then of course, it’s hard to say who is ‘evil’ in a war.

    The scarriest thing about this list is most of these people believed they were morally right.

  • Kirbo

    I’ve seen it a few times in the comments already (I lost patience and skipped a chunk of the middle) but I really do feel like Mao should be on this list. A little bit of research into Chinese history will show that he was responsible for more deaths than Hitler (though they were admittedly of a different sort). He made bad political decisions that led the widespread famine. During this famine, he sent what food there was left to his officers, leaving the farmers to starve leaving no one to produce more food.

    He became paranoid and deliberately stirred up panic and turmoil. public humiliations of those who protested (or those who were alleged to have done so) frequently led to death, insanity, and mortal illness. He raised an army of youth to batter anything that was historical, religious, cultural, anti-mao, buigois, etc. No one was safe and no one was informed. Millions of his own people died from the atmosphere of suspicion he shrouded his country in. He brainwashed the people into thinking that he was God. Mao could do no wrong. Most Chinese still are kept ignorant of his crimes against humanity. Chinese people wait in long lines, buy flowers, and bring them to his body (preserved and displayed in Tienanmen square) to worship and honor him. If you ask a college age student what they think of Mao you will hear how he strengthened China, how he was a great leader and a great man, and how he was an honorable part of their history.

    Even after his death his reign of fear and deception settles on China. He was an evil man.

  • buzzt

    ariel sharon should be on this propandised list.

  • BigBrotherIsWatchingMe

    Well, yes the Bush administration is the worse in American History and I can write a book about their faults and crimes but they do not belong on the top 10 yet. I Think Hitler should have made number one, he did cause World War II, 100 million is greater than Stalin’s 20 million. 60 is exaggerating, besides he did express remorse for the lost of his countrymen in the name of progress. Lets give him some credit, he changed Russian from an almost feudalist-farm society to a world power. He did not kill just to kill. Stalin wanted progress for his country. Hitler wanted to take over the world, big difference! What’s count Drakula doing there ? He would not even make top 50 on my list. I suggest you change him for the Roman Emperor Nero; that man was evil ! and crazy ! .

    One final comment, Bush has been compared to the devil, anti-christ, Hitler, etc. ( Ha even Chavez said it smelled like sulfur after he finished talking! ) I dont think Bush is that evil, to me he is America’s nero. Nero nearly destroyed Rome ( 1/3 of the city I believed and buchered quite a bit of people for his amusement ). Bush has almost bankrupt the United States. ( 2019 supposely ) spent 8 trillion dls, buried the United States in financial misery for the rest of its existence ( not really, but almost! ), lost the country’s credibility, friends, violated an infinity of laws, international and domestic, etc etc. At least he has not made himself king, but his brother will be running in 2012 . Change Vlad to Nero!

  • BigBrotherIsWatchingMe

    Is that Ivan the same as Ivan the Great ? I know there was a Russian Czar who traveled to Western Europe to bring ideas with him to modernize his country. I think I remember reading he was a bit cruel but also great help to his people. It could be another Czar or Ivan. Actually I think it was a Czar name Peter, because he build Saint Petersburg. Ahh, who knows. Anyone know what I’m talking about, let me know.

    Yeah those Russians sure could torture, but no one can top the English. Uff, gives me the goosebumps just thinking of what they do.

  • craig

    why the fuck is Hirohito there he had near enuf no control over his country it was run by the generals if u want 2 put the Rape of Nanking put sum1 like tojo in

  • evil the cat

    i think a we need to focus on evil on a huge scale. yes people like ariel sharon and osama bin laden are evil but they are not epic evil.(i’m singularly the most evil thing that ever lived but i’m not putting myself on the list) i dont think anybody has mentioned oliver cromwell yet. what an evil bastard, banned christams, boozing and lewd behaviour (no fun).

  • andy

    for words such as evil imagination comes very much into play, to condemn or condone acts played out in the name of religion is only pandering to suggestion, whether it be for revenge for historical injustice or ballast for future prejudice. evil should i feel never be used in the description of a cause, even if we are dealing with the worst society has to throw at us, or that which we go along with.

  • sun ova beech

    thats bullshit,wheres BUSH and the Rothschild’s?

  • Mike

    I think that Pope Innocent III should be up there. I know it seems weird to have a pope on the list of the most evil men, but his Papacy led to the Inquisitions and Crusades, which ended up killing over 70 million people. Thats 7 times as many people as Stalin (#1) on the list killed.

  • Mike

    One Letter:


  • Jacob

    what about Josef Mengele? Uday Hussein?

  • Dave

    I disagree with hirohito even being an honorable mention. It was mostly the militant members of his government that were responsible for the crimes. Ive always read that hirohito really didnt know what was going on under him and when he did he usually was too scared to say anything against his generals for fear of a coup

  • noticed

    anyone notice that hitler’s eye are not black and white if you look real close kind of creepy

  • tyrantsrus

    actually mr khomeini wasnt evil in the sense of the word evil…..he was taken into power through the wrong doings of the Shah of Iran who in my opinion was grossly corrupt and puppetted by Britain and the US.

    Bush/Cheney/Blair of course they’re evil they have blood on their hands, they are solely responsible for the murder of innocent individuals in the name of ‘war on terror’ also including their own people, does Bush think about the lost live’s of fellow american souls coming home in a box, or the live’s of young soldier’s who are permanently mained and disfigured for a cause they are not quite sure on. Mr. Blair put to death a government scientist before Britain committed itself to the iraq invasion. The British Royal family for the death of Diana and maybe other people. The Australian gorvernment for their abuses of human rights. Everyone seemed to have forgot our famous grandad we all love in Zimbabwe, I would also include past present and possibly future governments of Israel, Charles De Gaulle, Vichy, Bomber Harris who committed several war crimes in WWII, Margaret Thatcher for the Falklands War, Northern Ireland, and the miner’s strike. Any Chinese politician since and including Mao, Gerry Adams, Ian Paisley in Northern Ireland I am sure they are solely responsible for indescriminate murder. Lastly, nearly all south american leader’s.

    Apart from political evil, there are numerous counts of industrial evil, look at the conglomerates abusing their oversea’s workforce I shouldn’t need to name name’s.

    I am an American, I served in the Military and I am as proud and patriotic as the next american but you cannot condone the actions of puppeteer’s and profiteer’s, and selfless feckless governments who have no purpose to rule other than create misery and death. These are numerous on our planet right now.

    I have exaggerated this and I DO KNOW THIS, but this isn’t far off the truth. Also, I disagree with the Judas claim, to claim he was evil for what he done to Christ is ridiculous, if he hadn’t betrayed Christ, there would have been no crucifixion and no christianity. I would like to hear other’s feeling’s on this subject.

  • Loose_Cannon

    tyrantsrusI would like to hear other’s feeling’s on this subject.

    My feelings are you’re a flake and a nut.

    Charles De Gaulle more evil then Stalin or Hitler? Margaret Thatcher for defending British territory in the Falkland Islands? Past, Present and Future governments of Israel are ALL evil? ALL of them? Really?

    BTW, while we’re all thankful for your service, being a military vet doesn’t mean you’re not a flake or a nut. Just look at John ‘I have the hat to this day!’ Kerry*.

  • docskeezer

    What about King Herod the Great? If what is written in the Gospel of Matthew is true he was responsible for the death of thousands of very young males in his search to find and kill infant Jesus.
    Of course, the accuracy of the story and whether or not it was simply “creative writing” not meant to be taken literally, is a subject of debate.

  • Keepinitsilly

    wowww I love your listsss I read the one about the top ten most evil women and even THAT one had a really heated debate. I love it very entertaining informative and funny. Especially with all the smart remarks loose cannon made. FUNNNNNYYYY!

  • Awat

    I disagree with this list, Saddam hussein executes genocide against Kurds and seitis. The number of Kurds killed by Saddam is more than 200000, see the aministy international report, 140000 were citizens. He used chemical weapons against Halabja, killed about 5000 in less than 15 min.
    This beside the wars agains Kuwait, Iran, seeiats.

  • yosemite99

    i think loose cannon….. you post here just to wind people up or maybe you are a sad little individual that when you cant argue yourself out of a plastic bag you bad mouth and name call to get a point across.

    So if you would like a good debate and have your sorry ass eat humble pie please bring it on and lets see how factual your claims and retorts are. So please give me an argument I wont forget.

    Anyone who thinks dubbya and his merry men arent evil are completely ignorant and stupid beyond belief, So Loose cannon lets go into some details here cos I would love to see your sorry ass trailing dust in 50 degrees heat in baghdad or helmand, lets hope dubbya’s finest hour is pushing through compulsory service for mid western idiots like you.

    So to summarise… this is how evil the regime is and why its responsible for the direct and indirect misery, death and coersion to hundreds of thousands of lives which will compound itself into the millions within years.

    Oil – High prices due to demand of US china, India, EU, Russia stock piling kerosene, diesel and low grade petrol, why you may ask????? oil and the banking system thrive on each other, the higher the price the more the lesser well off countries need to borrow and the rich get richer, the banks lend the money and end up owning lesser economies, the US practically own the oil in iraq, the most powerful oil companies are american also america needs to compete in the future with a very oil and gas rich russia, who’s might is about to be let loose on the world.

    Heroin, Cocaine – Afghanistan is currently the hot bed for illegal drug trafficking whereby not only are the feudal lords governing the provinces coining it in but so are the armed forces hierarchy and your good ole senators and statesmen, they need the drug trade to flourish, reasons why..the answer is two fold, there is no war on drugs, never was, and never will be, its all fear and control based plus the level of corruption in drug trafficking is so high because there is too much money at stake and if your a drug baron needing to distribute your products you need friends in high places, there is the token haul but that is just for perception to the public to enforce the fear factor and that your loving government is brilliant in crime prevention. Afghanistan is the biggest producer of opiates in the world.

    Iraq, banks, governments need oil prices high so the war in iraq will never end, why cos the poorer countries will need to borrow large sums of cash just to buy enough to keep the electricity on, look at the oil corruption in nigeria, cant just blame the local government its the oil companies doing it, fuelled by government pressure and keeping in alignment with the banks needs, also take a look at any oil company, theres a statesman on the board of every single one.

    Iran, pending war of doom, reasons why.. the west needs a pipeline before the chinese get it. there is no nuclear threat from iran, it would need to buy the nuclear arms from the russians, yet this is so much a possibility that this is another reason why the war will happen. the problems in kurdistan and western pakistan is another sign post to the pending war.

    domestic policies that dubbya and co. loved to spawn on the middle class tax paying servant, do i really need to validate these.

    also before i end this lovely discussion….mrs thatcher was evil, loose cannon mentioned the falklands war, a stupid war britain didnt need to enter but the blood thirsty illuminati just wanted to make a point to keep the south americans in line, britain commited many war crimes during that period, they are well documented go find them.It was a dirty war and britain had broken the geneva convention to win that war. Mrs T also gave the banking system in britain too much power this was a precursor for banking power in europe, europe now has the most cash rich banks in the world, the credit crunch proves that point. She also sold off britains jewels in the crown to the private sector, again this was another step towards a harmonized and equal europe. the conservative government was the only party to have eu sceptics that rebelled constantly during the last 25 years making way for tony blair to continue the eu expansion and penetration into the lives of every european.

    so loose cannon if i am wrong and you can correct me in a mannerly and respecful way im all ears, but i have a feeling that you will respond to this with profanity, intolerance of opinion and in simple terms BULLYING. Also, i wasnt abused as a child, nor am i a flake or a nut, or anything you tend to accuse people of in previous threads. I would really like you to respond with compelling reasons as to why i am wrong.

    Also you dished out some dirt on someone here who likened our beloved dubbya to stalin and pol pot, well believe it or not, the similarities are striking but dubbya hasnt quite got near the body bag count yet, so in my opinion that glorious title of evilness on that level is eluding him, and yes i do agree that previous and definitely the current israeli governments are inherently evil due to their policies in gaza, palestine and alienating the neighbouring arab world and hanging on to the coat tails of the american and european governments to prop up their faltering economy and gifted with free military aid, but you know what the misleading strategy for israel will become more apparent when the invasion of iran happens. Finally, i would like to add rockefeller, roosevelt for the exploitation of the banking system and oil markets, so loose cannon if you have an opinion or hard fact to correct me please please do, i cannot wait!!!

  • nitenurse

    i think loose cannon should go on the list, he has erection problems in the morning :-)

  • Loose_Cannon

    yosemite99you post here just to wind people up or maybe you are a sad little individual that when you cant argue yourself out of a plastic bag

    nitenursehe has erection problems in the morning

    I am honored and deeply touched that so many of my fans on the far-left fringes of the Internet still feel the need to bash me and accuse me of erectile dysfunction. Seriously, thank you.

    I know each of you do this because something I wrote somewhere in this forum offended you so deeply you can’t bare to move forward through your lives without some derogatory remark toward my penis or a feeble and poorly focused challenge, which has all the reasoning of ‘Mein Kampf’ but without the hindrances of grammar and form.

    I’ve been offered commentary and opinion piece assignments, but alas, my children, my wife, my employment and the rest of my family must take precedent.

    I could easily spend all day swatting at the flies that seem to be attracted to forums such as these, and still never be finished. Truthfully, my life is much more meaningful and rich without the bother of scrapping the next insect that floats in here off my screen.

    If each of you really believe that Bush is the most evil person in the history of the entire world and deserves a place on this list, or even myself, then you are are so ignorant of history and culture that I can’t possibly help you.

    Frankly, I started doing this out of my need for fun when I’m bored and hoped that I added some entertainment into the mix for those reading my posts to enjoy. And to that, according to the many replies I’ve received, I’ve accomplished it.

    To you yosemite99 I say, you’re boring and terribly unoriginal. Most of these subjects have already been dissected, but adding the Illuminati as the culprits responsible for the Falkland Island war is, {snicker}, very creative. Keep it up! I’m sure your trolling with eventually snag someone’s interest.

    And Nitenurse, I do appreciate your nomination of me for this list. It takes a special kind of crackpot-esqus to think someone you strongly disagree with, but have no personal information about, is among the most evil men in history. And I will always treasure your attention to my penis. Truly you stepped into an area many wise and intelligent people could not bring themselves to cross. Congrats!

    Peace to both of you. May you both find some other intelligent, informed, and witty adversary to take up your petty grievances on the current occupant of the White House.

    Lots of love!

  • Free Arabian

    I think list Ruhollah Khomeini and Idi Amin is completely ridiculous . Millions attended the Funeral of Khomenin, and Idi Amin leave the rest of his life peacefully in Saudi Arabia and Ugandan government has a good relation with Saudi Arabia despite that.

  • Cedestra

    …doesn’t mean they weren’t evil.

  • jc

    Why isn’t Steve Bartman on this list?

  • that’s hilarious! How about Jeffrey Maier?

  • Cleartone

    Hey what about those guys who decided to drop Atom bombs on poor innocent Japanese civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945? More than 200,000 people were burnt to ashes in seconds…that is as bad as Holocaust!!

  • rcochran

    That’s revisionist. In 1944, sensing that an American invasion was inevitable, the Japanese Imperial Government militarized the entire population to resist any amphibious assault and occupation. Since in Japanese culture the Emperor was considered god on earth, many millions would have given their lives defending the Empire.

    A commission led by former president Hoover determined that an American invasion would last another 4-5 years and cost at least 400-500 thousand casualties and about 3-4 MILLION casualties. Additionally, any American invasion would likely have destroyed the entire Japanese infrastructure which would result in more death and devastation.

    And it must also be remembered, ultimately, that Japan fired the first salvo in a surprise sneak attack that ALSO killed civilians. The United States was right to seek and insist upon Japan’s unconditional surrender which even AFTER the bombs were both dropped, it took the Emperor’s vote to break a tie among the Imperial Command. Simply put the Atomic Bomb, while a device of unspeakable devastation, the likes of which had never been seen, was in fact the lesser of two evils.

    And finally, to say that it was as bad as the Holocaust which took nearly 6 million lives and nearly wiped the European Jew from the face of the earth is beyond ridiculous.

  • G

    I honestly think none of them should be on this list. Ordering someone to kill 1 million people is less evil than actually executing just one person yourself. Anyone can order, and then just not look at the execution.

    Some of the worst serial killers should be on that list instead.

  • Mrthubbron


  • dave

    you think amin is rediculous? what about the law he passed to make getting money for retrieving dead family members, and then kidnapping thousands of people, in the african culture familys will give all they have to get the body of a loved one back, the rivers in that part of the country used to flow with hundreds of dead bodies daily. not to mention he cut his wifes arms and legs off and sewed them back onto the opposite stumps! regardless how he finished his life he was evil, mengele finished the end of his life peacfully but he was responsible for the medical torture of thousands of children.

  • PlasmaTwa2

    This list is stupid. This is hardly a list about evil men, it’s a list about evil people who are ruled by a guy.

  • Simon The Byron

    Some people on here are ridiculous Loose*cough*Cannon*cough*, when good and evil are purely subjective terms, differing in application and definition from one society to another, arguing over who is the most evil is surely a completely pointless pursuit? I think Javed Iqbal should be on the list ( ), but I’m sensible enough to realize that this is merely my opinion and any attempt on my part to paint my views as representative of objective reality would be the epitome of conceit..

  • Edelle

    Geeeeeezz! did that japanese emperor really rule Japan for that long?!

  • hopefulson

    You forgot to put Antiochus IV Epiphanes on your list. It is said that people still refer to him as the antichrist. Antiochus decided to Hellenize the Jews by ordering the worship of Zeus as the supreme god.This was anathema to the Jews and when they refused, Antiochus sent an army to enforce his decree.
    upon seizing Jerusalem his soldiers entered the Jewish Temple and slaughtered a pig, then tried to force Jewish men to eat the pig meat (which is impure by Jewish law). The men refused and the soldiers cut off the men’s hands, feet, and tongues, then scalped the men and burned them alive on the altar of the Lord.

  • Tsk

    Louis XVI *was* tried, even if Robespierre didn’t like the idea. So it’s inaccurate to say he was “murdered without trial”.
    Also, no Gengis Khan? I mean, the mongol invasions killed more than the Black Death in Europe.

    Anyway, it’s pretty stupid and anti-historic to rank historical figures for “evilness”. What defines “evilness”, after all? Perversion? Propension to kill fellow men? For instance, take Robespierre. The man personally disliked violence, he just thought that Terror was the thing to do at the time. He wasn’t alone in that, and he even wasn’t the most rabid follower of this (those being the well-named “Enragés”). Ain’t it ridiculous to reduce the French Revolution and all of its complexity to a sentimental matter of evil Robespierre murdering poor Louis XVI?
    Or, take Vlad Tepes and Ivan the Terrible. Considering the brutal times in which they lived, their acts may not grant them the supreme evilness this list implies. I mean, one must take into account that Ivan was raised in a castle where he feared to be poisoned any time after the rest of his family had. At a tender age, he was led to witness the brutal torture and slaughter of opposants. How could he not end up being fucked up in a fucked up context like this?

  • Pingback: Top 10 Most Evil Men — listluv()

  • evildoer

    Interesting list.

    The hypocrisy from some of the posters is astounding, from all sides of the argument too.

    I always find that people resort to petty insults and namecalling when their own argument has no legs to stand on.

    It is nice to see though, that some people can have reasoned intellectual debates and discussions (not arguments) without behaving like 5 year olds.

  • That guy

    I think Che Guevara should be on this list because of all the people he excuted, then becomes a pop culture icon.WTF
    So if i killed a few hundred people, i can get my face on a shirt. (also i understand that it suppose to stand for revolution, but i think you can find some one better)

  • The Bladed Edge

    One wonders where to draw the line… I mean let’s face it… blunders have been made… perceptions altered… invasions happened… wars fought…
    C’mon… Junior Bush isn’t exactly the sharpest pencil in the drawer… but his policy advisors do most of his thinking for him anyway… thus it shall be for the next dozen Presidents or more…
    But Bush = evil?
    In a word, no. Deluded? Most likely… but he’s not evil.
    Sure… the American Military has killed a few hundred thousand Iraqi insurgents (civilians are called ‘collateral damage… so they don’t count, I guess…) in the so-called ‘War on Terror’… I mean… c’mon… you’re telling me that the potentially five hundred thousand people killed as a result/aftermath of this “war” were all terrorists or extremists or sympathizers? Get real.
    Ah… but does that fault lie on the shoulders of one trained chimp?
    Nah. He’s a lot of things… but he’s not evil… ‘easily duped’ tops my list of characteristics… his regime and the few folks in his cabinet pulling his puppet strings? They’d hit this list before Junior would, in my opinion.
    Now… if only there were proof that a certain oil company pushed to start a war over oil deposits in Iraq… causing the deaths and suffering of hundreds of thousands of civilians, innocents and even thousands of America’s own military personnel… all for the love of the almighty dollar…
    Yeah… I’d call THAT evil.
    But keep in mind something:
    Think about the atrocities in Abu Ghraib… these were American soldiers who succumbed to the propensity of all humanity to be overcome by a ‘power dynamic’… abuses and inhumane treatment of prisoners… but was it evil?
    Cuba’s Gitmo… the same thing happened in the 70’s at the Stanford Prison Experiment… perfectly normal people thrust into extraneous circumstances and turning into ‘bad eggs’…
    If you think that you’d be immune to the lure of power and corruption… and NOT do as these perfectly normal people did in those situations… I challenge you to prove me wrong.
    Are there people out there that are genuinely evil?
    Hell yeah… Jeffrey Dahmer, Clifford Olson from Canada and just about anyone in similar circumstances that showed a similar lack of moral fibre (read: off-their-rockers psychopaths)… these people should probably have been purged from the human race like the cancers they are (or were) and eradicated for the good of humanity…
    But wait… my desire to kill these sickos in cold blood to punish them… does that make ME evil? =O

  • Boris Yeltsin

    Ronald Mcdonald

  • greg

    Here is why Georeg Bush belongs on the list

    1. Causing major conflicts in the middle east that will cause horrors in the future
    2. Exploiting the poor and rebuilding the gilded age in America
    3. Supporting the horrors going on in China, by allowing us to be their primary buyers
    4. Killing over 500,000 innocent people in Iraq
    5. Horribly torturing thousands in his prison camps
    6. Beginning a juclear arms race with 2 other nations
    7. Making our nation completely dependant on oil
    8. Allowing American businesses to destroy life in the rainforest, the environment, and the indiginous people
    The middle east hates eachother, the US sided with Israel despite their sick way of leading, pissing off the Muslim world. That lead to 9/11. Then, we gave iran and the Saudi’s power by invading Iraq and using oil, now, we hate Iran for nuclear weapons. These conflicvts will continue for years, not to mention torture insuced by GWB and all of the deaths. He belongs on this list.

  • greg

    How can anybody want to put Che Guevara on the list. He liberated so much of the world and brought nations into socialism, that’s a hero, he should be on the list of greatest men.

  • greg: first off, it is debatable that bringing nations to Socialism is liberating. Secondly, why would he be considered evil? Let us look at his very own words:

    “Crazy with fury I will stain my rifle red while slaughtering any enemy that falls in my hands! My nostrils dilate while savoring the acrid odor of gunpowder and blood. With the deaths of my enemies I prepare my being for the sacred fight and join the triumphant proletariat with a bestial howl!”

    “We don’t need proof to execute a man. We only need proof that it’s necessary to execute him. A revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate.”

    “He went into convulsions for a while and was finally still. Now his belongings were mine.”

    “I’d like to confess, papa, at that moment I discovered that I really like killing.”

  • astraya

    Apart from that he was really sweet …

  • Anon


    What else, to be such a handsome, dashing hero printed on so many innocent little kid’s T shirts?


    An in-depth, investigative profile on one of our Chilean public channels turned him up as a really crap miltary planner and actioner too, who usually got his less-than-impressed fellow field commanders into unnecessary tight situations wherever he was; Africa, Cuba, you name it. It seems they used to try to discreetly sideline him if possible. The ironic conclusion was that his only success is as a dead icon. Well, who needed an efficient live Dr Guevara anyway? Personally, I could as well do without the iconic defunct one. A curious note was struck by the Bolivian patrol which trapped and killed him. They seemed to genuinely regret that. The only regret I’d feel would be in having turned the doctor-turned-butcherer into an undeserving martyr.

  • astraya: I am completely with you on that. Oh – and for the record – he stunk. Literally. No one wanted to sit near him because he never bathed. How apt.

  • astraya

    I’ve just been reading about him in the un-namable online open-source encyclopedia, and it mentions that.
    The first version of “Evita” has him as a research chemist, developing a pesticide which is going to transform agriculture, and becomming disillusioned when he can’t get funding. That reference was dropped from later versions (it’s hard to sing “O, my insecticide” convincingly, unless, maybe, you’ve won third prize-winner in a national singing competition) and the character “Che” became an Argentinian everyman instead. There’s no mention of a career as a research chemist in the wiki article. Tim Rice was not a historian, and may have made that up. My point is that if he was a research chemist and had developed a revolutionary (ha!) pesticide, he might have done more good in that field (haha!) than as a revolutionary.
    Stencil prints of his face and the words “Che lives” appeared around Sydney about 10 years ago. At that stage a politician with the first name “Cheryl” switch parties. Some of the graffiti were changed to “Cheryl lies”. Others were changed to “Cheap olives”.

  • astraya

    Does anyone remember a pop song about Idi Amin in about 1976? There are fleeting references online, but I can’t find anything substantial.
    Various things I can remember are that it was largely spoken “by” Amin during the verses and sung by a female ?trio during the choruses. Each verse finished “We must give the population something to sing”. He found some fault with one of the singers after each chorus, then there was a gunshot, then each chorus had one fewer singer. Finally, the last verse ended “We must give the population something to hum”.
    1) This is bizarre. 2) I am not making this up. 3) Someone please tell me that you remember this, so I can convince myself and others of 2).

  • astraya
  • Loose_Cannon

    gregHere is why Georeg Bush belongs on the list

    Greg, I have no doubt that you believe everything you wrote. Especially the part about ‘supporting the horrors going on in China, by allowing us to be their primary buyers’, even though it was Clinton who successfully lobbied for China to be included in the WTO. And when you wrote “Making our nation completely dependant on oil” you had a point! We were never COMPLETELY dependent on oil before “Georeg Bush”. Before Bush we used gerbils, on occasion.

    But your follow up on how Che “brought nations into socialism” was priceless, and truly the icing on the cake. When you define ‘brought’ as mass-murder and torturous detention, you may be right. How could the political prisoners languishing in Fidel’s cells even begin to argue with this line of thought?

    I’ve said before, Greg, that there were some moronic and ignorant folks out there. Thank you for providing proof of that.


  • Rhett

    Greg: the US sided with Israel, pissing off.

    Yeah, I guess I could see how backing Israel’s right to EXIST could piss off the Arab world considering they’ve done nothing but try to wipe Israel from the face of the earth since the UN established it in 1949. But I guess that makes the US evil.

    Really, idiots shouldn’t be allowed computer access. What the hell is a “juclear arms race” anyway? Whatever they are, I don’t want ’em. No more jukes!

  • Paul

    don’t you think it should be Hideki Tojo instead of Hirohito. Hirohito was kinda just a figure head, but Tojo had the real power

  • v daddy

    Are we forgetting rumbsfeld and bush how many different nations lost persons due to this propaganda crap?? coalition troops enemies not just iraq i think this group of polititions should be in the top 6

  • Usher

    loose_cannon is a redneck with gud vocab.

  • nina_beretta

    It should really be called the most evil men in history…J i think you should make a list of CURRENT or recent most evil men.

  • silvin

    I find this list very interesting. It seems that the wish our our society (USA) is to move towards Godlessness, but the list is filled with men who are examples of what happens when God is removed from the picture. When you remove accountability, you will find men that are capable of doing anything. I do believe separation of Church from State: you can see how wrongly a church state can go by observing the Muslim nations. But the removal of God from society is chilling.

  • Ryan

    I am a soldier in the United States Army, honestly if you think the Bush administration even closely compares to evil you need your head checked. Whereas we waterboard perveyors of crime and Islamic Jihad, our enemies have captured unarmed civilian reporters and sawed their heads off. And if you think that they don’t want us their, go their. Most of the insurgents aren’t from Iraq, they are from Libya, Saudi, Yemen and Iran funds them, not the citizens of Iraq. So quit bitching about a war you don’t fight, because I’m certainly not.

  • Rhett

    Well said, soldier. Thank you for your service. There are a lot of people on this board who hide behind the shield of anonymity and false names making broad accusations based on selective memory. It’s easy to apply today’s intelligence to yesterday’s decisions. I don’t think anyone would argue that the war in Iraq has been completely successful. Mistakes have been made and lives have been lost because of it. But it is a quantum leap to go from that admission to the assertion of pure evil.

    Nicely stated in your point of the role of God in society. Terrible things have been done in the name of God, but that speaks to the darker nature of man himself and not the role of God. That some have twisted the word of God to justify evil does not validate the claims of many atheists who say the world is better off without God. Read your history: the early days of Red China, Pol Pot in SE Asia, Stalin’s Soviet Russia, the Stasi of East Germany – these were all the result of state sanctioned atheism (among other things).

    Evil exists when those in power seek to gain or secure more power for their own sake without the well being of those to whom they are entrusted to lead is considered. At least, that’s my opinion.

  • Randall


    I can’t agree (unlike Rhett) with your jingoistic rant. Being a soldier doesn’t excuse you from exercising logic; indeed, it ought to make it more incumbent upon you to think about things from the point of view of a citizen representing your country and your society overseas in uniform.

    Now then… by your logic, the Bush administration is not evil because rather than “sawing off the heads” of its enemies, it simply waterboards them. Nice. In fact, Ryan, neither action is right and neither action is excusable. Both are barbaric and unforgivable. And senseless. Merely because certain restraints are imposed upon one party does not mean that, should those restraints be removed, they would not do as the other party does. If you really are a soldier (as MANY in my family were) then you know how atrocities and crimes are committed by BOTH sides in war. And so you know that it’s quite possible that were restraints removed, we too might be “sawing heads” off with careless abandon. It is not the RESTRAINT that matters here, nor is it the restraint itself that makes one side “better.” It is the WILLINGNESS to adhere to restraint, and to heed it as a demarcation between what is civilized and just and what is not.

    But likewise, it is perfectly obvious that there are only matters of degree between waterboarding a prisoner and simply lopping his head off. Torture is wrong as murder in cold blood is wrong. You don’t get a pass because you restrained yourself from chopping heads, but opted instead to torture.

    As decapitating a prisoner is purely evil, it is also, likewise, the EMBRACE of torture as a sanctioned action that is evil.

    This is opposed to the horrible things that often happen, in the passion of things, during war—which is a different kind of evil.

    Moreover, don’t tell me not to “bitch” about ANY war that my country prosecutes, Ryan. It’s not only my RIGHT to complain about that war—it’s my RESPONSIBILITY as a free citizen of a democracy to do so, if I feel that war is injust, stupid, pointless, and/or a waste of our resources.

    YOU may maintain that the citizens of Iraq want you there; (perhaps so, I don’t doubt this is possible–but evidence also contradicts it to a certain extent) but these aren’t the things that decide whether a war was CORRECT in the first place or not. WINNING a war doesn’t make it right.

    Now… you imply that you’re in Iraq or have been there. I thank you for serving, certainly. But if you were going to serve, then the place where you BELONGED was Afghanistan, crushing the enemies that actually perpetrated the attack against us and were and are willing to carry out others. But where are these enemies? Still there, in Afghanistan and in the mountains of Pakistan. The Taliban is strong enough, today, to still wield influence over parts of the country. That is RIDICULOUS.

    Ranting jingoistically about Iraq doesn’t alter reality.

  • Rhett

    I will agree with you on the “bitching” comment. As Americans, we are entitled to our opinions. That said, yours has been among the most lucid and well thought out on this board.

    To be honest, I don’t know where I sit on the specific issue of waterboarding. That’s in part due to the fact that the intelligence community is split on the issue. On the one hand, it doesn’t cause any physical harm. On the other hand, neither does holding an unloaded pistol to a detainees head. In either case, the subject feels as though they’re about to die or that there’s a chance of death.

    Unfortunately, we don’t live in a world of black and white. There are those who exist in those shadowy gray areas and they have to make choices that I simply cannot fathom. To quote Colonel Nathan Jessup in A Few Good Men, “Deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You NEED me on that wall.” But putting aside the specific issue of whether this is torture or not, we have to judge on whether those using these methods – or rather those who authorize the ues of these methods – are evil. Since President Bush is not trying to wipe a race from the face of the earth or achieve world domination, then I have to conclude that he’s not evil. It doesn’t mean that everything he’s done has been right, because as I clearly stated in the last post, I don’t believe that to be the case at all.

    But again, your point regarding the expression of one’s opinions is well stated. And valid.

  • Randall


    Well, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I actually had written something else to you, but for some reason it wouldn’t post. If it does so, you can ignore it and instead address yourself to this comment instead.

    I certainly do not ascribe to Bush or even the hated Cheney the level of “evil” that I would freely ascribe to a Josef Stalin or a Pol Pot or a Mao, or their ilk… or to other, right wing dictators who are also too numerous to mention. But evil comes in degrees and in many masks. Bush’s evil is perhaps evil by stupidity, arrogance, and other factors, rather than evil by sheer wantonness. But he has the taint of evil about him nonetheless.

    At any rate, the threat of physical torment, the actual appliance of that torment, or the threat of death itself are all forms of torture in my book, Rhett. That makes waterboarding torture. I would have thought this was rather obvious.

    Couple things from your previous post though, copied from the comment I mentioned, that didn’t show up:

    “…making broad accusations based on selective memory.”

    Well, Rhett… I wonder what “selective memory” you’re referring to. The Bush administration made REPEATED assertions that they had good and supportable reason to attack and invade Iraq (while thus neglecting Afghanistan, where our ACTUAL attention should have been). In fact we now know for a fact that the Bush administration–and Bush himself–knew that there were no such supportable reasons. This was a deliberate falsehood, perpetrated by the administration.

    You also said: “It’s easy to apply today’s intelligence to yesterday’s decisions.”

    TODAY’S intelligence is only peripherally relevant. It was, in fact, the intelligence of the TIME that said there WAS NO justifiable reason for invading Iraq.

  • Rhett

    The selective memory to which I refer is that people forget that most credible sources, and even President Clinton has stated this, felt that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. He had used them on both Iran and his own people and had threatened Israel with them. That was the justification. “[T]he intelligence of the TIME,” as you put it, was that they had WMDs in secret stockpiles. That’s what was presented to the UN. It’s the same intelligence that House and Senate committeemen saw. It was the belief that WMDs were there that provided the justification. The fact that you neglect to remember that point proves my point about selective memory.

    The reason for the war has changed, however, from one of removing a dictator with the ability to manufacture and the willingness to use WMDs to one of creating a stable democracy in the Middle East. Perhaps I didn’t communicate this as effectively as I had intended. Or perhaps this is simply a point where we’ll have to agree to disagree.

    To put it another way, should we label JFK and LBJ as evil men because their intelligence was incorrect in Viet Nam. The Domino Theory was the prevailing intelligence doctrine of the day, although we now know that the threat of Communist world domination was greatly overstated.

    As for Afghanistan, I don’t believe any of us have the full picture of what’s going on there. However, the fact that several threatened attacks have been thwarted I think speaks to the successes of the Bush administration. I voted for Bush twice, but I am also even handed enough to realize his mistakes. My biggest beef with the left is that they refuse to acknowledge his successes. One recent example of that is the recent distortions by Nancy Pelosi in the wake of our current financial crisis. Bush warned about the deregulation and the inherent dangers within six years ago but the Democrats blocked efforts at reform. Pelosi is now putting all of this on Bush’s shoulders and ignoring her party’s role in this mess.

    OK, so that’s a discussion for another topic. I’ll simply close by reiterating that evil is a very strong word which is being bandied about pretty loosely and without much thought of consequence. All I’m saying is that it’s possible to disagree without branding someone as the anti-Christ.

    So… what about that Robespierre, huh?

  • Randall


    You’re slipping into a HUGE fallacy here, which to me sounds like it’s entirely motivated by partisan politics, since you seem to wish you could drag Bill Clinton into this to share some of the blame for Iraq. It’s rubbish. Bill Clinton wasn’t president when we invaded Iraq; Bush was. And the statements made by Bush and his people at the time were that they had *intelligence* that indicated that Iraq was developing WMDs. Mere “belief” is not “intelligence.” Whether Clinton claimed to have such “intelligence” is irrelevant to this discussion—HE did not start up a war in Iraq. Bush did.

    The Bush administration then pushed this issue, maintaining that the intelligence was reliable and could be trusted–EVEN to the extent that some of it was of such a sensitive nature that it could not be shared openly and publicly because sources would then be compromised. THIS is the very argument the administration presented to the American people and to congress–and wishing to give the administration the benefit of knowing what it was talking about on such an issue, congress acceded to the war.

    It has long since been known, however, that the Bush administration IN FACT deliberatly lied, confabulated, and distorted what LITTLE intelligence they in fact had—MOST of which contradicted the VERY conclusion they were trying to force down our throats–namely, that Iraq had or was about to get WMDs.

    There is no “selective memory” about this WHATSOEVER. The only selective memory, it appears, is YOURS. The ACTUAL intelligence AT THE TIME was that Iraq DID NOT have WMDs and was not developing them. The Bush administration then turned this almost 180 degrees around to claim that they did. (The Downing Memo ALONE confirms this, but it is not the only evidence.. there’s a mountain of it). Period.

    So don’t give me this crap about “selective memory.” You need to examine your own.

    Bush’s intelligence was not “incorrect.” It was CONFABULATED DELIBERATELY. THAT is the difference between the Bush administration and that of Kennedy and Johnson—though I would say the distorted facts about the Gulf of Tonkin pushes Johnson’s administration a bit closer to the Bush end of things on this question.

    You don’t believe any of us has the “full picture” of what’s going on in Afghanistan? You need to open your eyes wider and accept some simple, blunt facts. FIVE years of neglect and insufficient resources is what’s going on there. Resources, time and energy that have been spent needlessly and wastefully in Iraq. PERIOD. You’re going to tell me that a few “thwarted attacks” point to SUCCESS? THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANYONE ON THE OTHER SIDE LEFT TO ATTACK. The Taliban and Al Qaeda should have been CRUSHED in Afghanistan (or at least, to the extent that Al Qaeda COULD be crushed, seeing as it was not based solely there).

    Rhett, you’re nothing but a Bush apologist. Give it up. Because facts and truth will always easily poke right through thin lies, and the ones you have to tell to support your position here are so tissue thin as to be transparent. The mere fact that you actually VOTED for that bullying, inept, incompetent, arrogant, stupid (and yes, I DO mean stupid) sorriest excuse for a president we’ve had IN MY LIFETIME (including Nixon) TWICE is indication that you are NOT, in fact, a “clear thinker” when it comes to him—rather, you’re simply a party hack who is so caught up with despising the “left” that you can’t face that there HAVE BEEN NO SUCCESSES from the Bush administration. I would challenge you to point to ONE. ONE.

    You are DISTORTING the facts about Bush’s so-called “warnings” about deregulation. I don’t have time to go into it now, I’m due in a meeting… but this is ridiculous… it’s downright propaganda, and poor propaganda to boot, as it hasn’t a leg to stand on, even an imagined one.

    Sorry, I hate jumping on somebody this early in the morning… but this kind of blind allegiance to Bush and what he’s stood for has got to stop. You need to wake up to being a citizen of this country and accept that your choice was WRONG, twice. Face it like a man and live with it. And accept that a lot needs to be done to repair the damage.

  • Rhett

    It’s so funny that it’s always the other guy who is purely partisan while our own beliefs come from a place of truth and enlightenment. I’m not apologizing for Bush’s presidency. I don’t think an apology quite does it. Much has gone wrong and it goes right to his choices and the people he surrounded himself with. I won’t apologize for believing what I believe and, like you, I don’t have time to explain nor do I feel the need to defend my positions fully on an anonymous board. However, I’m going to be objective enough to admit that neither one of us is objective. Am I partisan? Maybe that’s a fair accusation, but it’s going both ways. I, at least, have made an attempt (flawed though it may have been) to point out examples on both sides of the aisle. Your position places all the world’s problems squarely on the shoulders of George Bush and that’s just intellectually lazy.

    It’s clear that neither one of us will convince the other, which is usually the case in these types of “discussions.” Heck, I only came on here in the first place to point out that Bush ain’t Idi Amin. Respond if you like. Take the last word. I’m out.

    For what it’s worth, I have enjoyed the exchange. I just don’t think there’s much more to be gained and I don’t want this to devolve into a pissing match. Not saying that’s where you would take it, but I know that I’m immature enough to go there. :)

  • Randall


    I called you partisan because it’s simply impossible to be otherwise and actually defend the Bush administration’s policies in regards to the Iraq war (or in regards to anything else for that matter, but that’s another story). And you HAVE defended them, from your words both to me and to Ryan.

    But let’s turn to another point… this business of claiming that I’ve placed “all the world’s problems” on Bush’s shoulders… and then calling me “intellectually lazy.” Ah, but you see… I didn’t do that. Not in the least. I place the problems Bush caused on his shoulders. I do not add irrelevant ones. He has plenty to carry. YOUR statement, rather, is a cheap tactic, the point of which is to try to discredit what I’ve said. Nice try, but it won’t wash. Bush is responsible for what he is responsible for. I add nothing to that list, nor do I subtract from it.

    The thing is, this SHOULDN’T devolve into a pissing match. Back in the days when I was a conservative, Rhett, I had the honest and confidence to admit when I was wrong, to admit when my party and the politicians I felt aligned with had done wrong. I came to admit the mistakes that Reagan had made, and Bush Sr. after him. I came to admit the gross errors made by Newt Gingrich and his fellows, and the thug-like behavior they often exhibited. I came to see that sometimes the Left is correct. There must be a balance in philosophy–not one philosophy overriding all others.

    But in any case, I would have been there admitting that Bush had been wrong all along, and that he represented a bankrupt political and economic philosophy. It’s time to change gears and re-evaluate. Not hide heads in the sand or hide behind jingoism. I am no “left-winger.” I’ve been on both sides of the political fence. I don’t call myself anything now; I’m independent and I make my political judgements based on well-researched knowledge, a well-cultivated sense of right and wrong, facts, and a sense of balance.

  • Junaidi

    wow! i can see a lot of “real intelligent” argument going on here.
    And yeah,Bush and all the “liberation army” of his should be on the list.

  • Persianwarrior

    The fact that they put imam khomeini’s name on this list and Saddam who gased his own ppl and killed more than 1 million iraqi’s and 300,000 iranians is missing shows which asshole motherfucker has prepared it. Khoemini killed at the most 5000 among them terrorists backed by us who spied for Iraq during the war. Now whoever spies for enemy during war is executed everywhere. Khomeini liberated Iran from asshole piece of shit american bums and israeli mother fuckers, where is Sharon the butcher on this list you fucking hypocrit bastards where is bush on this list you cocksuckers

  • mani

    Well, as an Iranian who hates any theological or ideological government, I am not a fond of Khomeini but I am surperised that you have listed him here beside people like Hiltler and Attila!!!!

    In that case, Bush and Blair and Olmert should be on the top.

    The number of people killed during 1986 is unknown and there are different numbers from 5000 to what you mentiond here. Also you also need to clarify that most of those prisoners who were executed in this event were members of MEK, a terrorist group who didn’t mind killing civilians by exploding boms. They even joined Saddam Hussien fighting back their own country and killing their own people during the 8 years imposed was of Iraq over Iran

  • Reza

    Who kills many humans in Hiroshima with one bomb?

  • Wisdom

    Every body knows the Hiroshima and Nagasaki murderer!
    Every body Knows if any war occur, the world will be atomically bombardment thousand times by the HUMMAN RIGHTS DEFENDERS, who have thousands ATOMIC BOMB!
    Please DONOT give the people WRONG ADDRESS!
    This list has prepared by SATAN!
    Please refer it to hell and resort it!

  • sara

    there is not name of Saddam Hossein (Iraq)!!!!

  • sara

    there is not name of murderer of people in Hiroshima and Nakazaki as nomber one of this list.

    also. there is not name of goverment of ISRAEAL. the men dont forgt killing of many people !!!!!

  • Omid

    Why Khomeini is in the list? You should improve your knowledge of the recent world affairs. I wonder why you haven’t accidentally mention Jesus or Moses!!

  • mohammad

    i am a doctor in iran.i am not religious and i am not political. iwas borned 2 years after the revolution.and i was about 8 when khomeini can’t believe how much the iranian people love him.he was the man of god.believe me brothers i even do not pray the allah as they say in iran but surely i can swear to jesus god and jewish god (every god you pray ) that khomeini was not cruel and the writer of this lecture not only doesn,t recognize khomeini but also has forgotten SADDAM HOSSEIN the most common terrorist of the world.where is chaney and bush in this ranking?where is Bin ladan and alQauidi? believe me that the writer didn’t save the justice!!! i am a doctor and my IQ is 140 and i tell you I love Khomeini…

  • mohammad

    where is israel government in this ranking ???they are killing tousands of palistinians every day in the name of freedom and democracy…bullshit!!! i give you the list…every one who accept my list only write : Bingo!!!
    1-George W Bush (the butcher and the mad!)
    2-Dick Chaney (Bush is an angel in front of him!)
    3-Israeilian Government (we do not mention them as a country also!)
    4-Adolf Hitler (Palestinian people are paying day and night because of him!)
    5-Changiz khan (the mongolian king who murdered milions of people of china,persia,osmania(new turkey) and europe in aboute 400 years can you overlook him???his yasa was so famous)
    6-the great britain Queen(because of turture and killing the milions all over the world in hundred of years in countries like Ireland,India,Scottland,France,Germany,Many african people we mention the england as old fox!!!)
    7-Saddam Hossein the leader of Iraq who murdered hundred of tousands of kurd’s in iraq and iran and Kuwait in the war of 80s.He also was equipped by usa and england and USSR for killing the innocent people
    8-Pol Pot (read in the article)

  • Freedom

    What a glorious historical knowledge!
    Dear writer of this SATANIC LIST! Please read more history and then publish your idea.
    Who has prepared this shit list?
    A mad?
    Some one killed 140,000 people in a few seconds in Japan and a bullshit prepare this shit list without notifing it!
    Do NOT talk and write about the history of other people and countries without any knowledge!!

  • mmmm

    where are G bush,sharon,…?

  • godiva

    During the Japanese Occupation here in the Philippines (also in the 1930s same with that of Nanking), the Japanese also did a lot of raping, murder, and looting. A lot of women who were abused then are still alive today. They are called The Comfort Women.
    I wish these men in the list and some other would all line up in front of me so I can cut off their genitals after I pour acid on their faces. And then I would bleed them to death by letting their blood spill. I would push nice sharp ice picks inside all of their holes beginning with the holes of their eyes to their anuses. And then let them all roll in rock salt. And then finally, I would leave them to die slow and painfully for wild animals to feed on.
    But then again, that’s just wishful thinking! ;D

  • khomeiniii

    khomeini is a evil, these stupid ppl that support him are like him.
    mohammad if u r doctor because they sent u to university free and without exam.
    i hate khomeini and his supporters

  • amir

    stupid Mohammad
    Khomeini should be the top guy in this ranking
    nobody in Iran loves Khomeini
    i think Islamic republic pays you to write these bullshits
    and one more thing, your IQ is like your English; both sucks

  • razi

    1-changiz khan(mongolia)
    2-teimour khan(ozbakistan)

  • Ali

    Dear Sir/Madam
    Ayatolah Montazeri said that 3000 people were executed not 30000 ones,besides every political prisoner who avoided repenting of their activities were put to death.
    Well,in my attitude they could accept their faults and continue their activities after their freedom.
    But they showed signs of obstinacy and caused that horrible disaster.The death of thousands of people is a catastrophe but the people like Rajavi corrupted the young minds and as a matter of fact He must be punished.He is a devil.

    Yours Faithfully,

  • nima

    where is sadam hosain in this list?
    i think that u forgot a lot of dictatores in middleeast for example khamenaii that he still does evil act.

  • James

    Khomeini is top level evil of the recent decades, I can say that he is worst than anyone who ruled a county by force.

    In addition to his orders for killing thousands of innocent (Mojahedin, Komonists,…), he made many mistakes like:
    – Not to accepting the peace offer from Saddam in early years of the war
    – The famous “more children lead to better life” which cause Iran population to become 70M nowadays
    – Enforcing nonsense none-Islamic laws with the name of Islam
    – Putting too much pressure on other branch of Islam in Iran (for example destroying Sunni mosques, not allowing them to become a part of governing bodies,…)
    – A book of items can be listed here

    If we count his mistakes and study their effects on Iran society, economy, foreign relation, and so n we will find him and his governors the most evil governors of all times.

  • vahid

    where is sadam hossien?
    where is moselini?

  • naghi

    your list is too bogus and biased…

  • mahnaz

    you have read like, one history book in your life, ha?!

  • payam

    The Part about khomieni is absolutely lie
    mention your references
    and no trace of joerge bush in your list….

  • mohsen

    I can mention 10 genocides over 1000000 death toll in history
    How comes your 9th is 30000
    Have you ever read a history book???

  • mohammad

    i am so sorry for amir . you stupid can not imagine what a glory khomeini brought for this country so shut your mouth and suck american’s and other dictator’s dick…your english is also obviously sucks!

  • Irony.

  • Angelina

    LOL at Jamie

  • singkong

    So where’s all US’s criminal leader ??? i wasn’t fair that US’s not in the lists..

  • Aria

    I think Khomeini was number one evil man in the history. He was a satanic leader that not only killed a lot of the youth and opposition, and had many people killed in useless war with Iraq, but also he and his fans destroyed Iranian culture, tortured believers to other religions, and showed a dark image of Iran to the world. He taught poisonous ideas, as you see here some Iranian crazy people who think not with their brains, mentioned some of his ideas. They are following satan as he did.
    I also expected to mention the name of Saddam Hussein, Iraqian dictator, Milosevich, Serbia dictator,China’s leaders who killed many students in Tian An Men uprising, Ahmadi Nezhad, Iranian ugly president who intends to kill Jews, and so on.

  • Oldsnake

    Many persons that are worse than this article’s person WASN”T mention.
    As the other up people say many of them.
    but sth srange is in this article!
    First 2 persoon in this article was’nt evil.First Ayatolah khomeini,second….
    why this mentioned?some perpuse is here,putting very old thing that we don’t know them with someone that anyone know them,It make the other person we know little about them BAD too!

  • Oldsnake

    I told more,when some revoloution happened in country many things Ruined.And if this county is in hand of British,or USA,it’s clear that THEY make this country in world bad,or make them bad!with their tools,power…

  • w bush

    i tell you just shut up .
    Ruhollah Khomeini not an evil he is good man.
    and …
    where is bush , saddam , sharoon and more evil men.

  • Khomeini

    Khomeini is one of the top evil and fascist in the world he destroyed Iran and also the world , he is rubbish , he died a lot of Iranian
    fucking Khomeini

  • aa.fg11

    (** Emam Khomeini is a God man **)
    Your interpretations are rejected.

  • Sepehr

    I am a former political prisoner in Iran. I dont forget summer 1988 when thousands of political prisoners, some had completely served their terms and were waiting to be freed, were executed with the direct command of the “man of God”. In his decree, he orders officials to kill the prisoners without hesitation. I dont forget my friend whose son was born when he was in prinson, in 1981 and counted days, months and years to be released, and I don’t forget his son that had grown a 7 years old boy at the first grade of primary school and was glad that his father would be with him after weeks, but, hellas… he was among the executed. I never forget his son and his young wife…

  • Tamcat

    How the writer of this list does sort this list?
    Based on History books?
    The sorter of this list has not any knowledge about history!

    History tells us about the murderer of 20 and 21 century who kill people in:
    1- 300,000 people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki
    2- Vietnam with biologic and chemical bombs
    3- Korea
    4- Iraq
    5- Afghanistan
    6- Somali
    7- Libya
    8- Iran by shooting down Airbus (300 people killed)
    9- Pakistan by daily attack to innocent people

    And we know the supporter of the most EVIL DICTATORS such as:
    1- Pinochet.
    2- Shah of Iran.
    3- Saddam Hussein who supported by USA.USA equipped him with chemical and biological weapons.
    4- Taliban masters. Taliban has been established by USA for fighting with USSR in Afghanistan.
    5- Rajavi and MKO masters who killed many innocent people and then they fled from Iran to Saddam’s Iraq.

  • Sam

    delete this list

  • Loose Cannon

    Is anyone logging the IP addresses of these replies? And are they all coming from the same IP address?

  • Zartosht

    To the people who think Khomeini should not be on list:
    Khomeini was one of the cruelest, meanest and wildest I can say animals human being ever seen in the whole history. His grand grand father was an Indian English spy who was sent to Iran around 150 years ago to apart one of the provinces of Iran from the central government. After the Islamic revolution he ordered to killed thousands of Brave Iranian youngsters to establish his state of terror. He believed in killing people just because they think differently. He got the country to 1400 years ago. He wasn’t an Iranian and the time people get freed from this regime I believe Iranians will change his grave to a ruin.

  • Charles NIckalopoulos

    When a person thinks of all the murdered un-born babies,and sometimes born babies…well, I rest my case.

  • Aria

    Khomeini is responsible for the most horrible crimes in the history of IRAN.he ordered killing more than 200,000 youngs and youngsters for their idea. no trial, no defending attroney.
    in the name of god!! he destroyed the culture of iran. he should have a better position in this list!

  • Anti Aria and Zartosht

    When you talking about the most EVIL men of ALL history, you must search ALL history.
    Talking about a decade evil men is completely different from ALL history evil men.
    This list proposes 7 men who lived in 20 century, thus it talks about 20 century evil men.
    It seems that the writer of this list must read more history books and improve his/her knowledge.
    Unfortunately, this list ignores many 20 and 21 century evil men.
    It seems that the writer of this list, prepared this list for his/her aims, and academically this list doesn’t have any value.
    Thus this list is BULLSHIT!

  • karismac

    What about Napoleon Bonaparte? We are all still suffering from the mess he made
    whether you know it or not.

  • flgh

    No mention of Tomás de Torquemada?

  • karismac

    Hey yeah, he was a real nasty piece of work.

  • Hamidreza

    What did You Think About the most powerful leader, Khomeini ?
    Don’t you know about previous King In Iran named Shah ?
    Don’t you know about dark and Choking Situation In Iran before Him ?
    If he is Evil, What do you call Bush, Saddam, … !
    Shame !
    That’s the only word I could Call Writer !

  • Demigod

    What about Pope Urban II?

  • Uncle Dave

    What about Chairman Mao?

  • Zack

    I can’t believe anyone would say Bush or Cheney. I am in the U.S. Army and let me tell you, any civilians that have been killed were either “civilians” (hopefully the ones reading this are intelligent enough to understand what the quotes are for) or because there was a strike on a target and the sacrifice of few civilians to get someone much worse is an acceptable sacrifice. Also, I was wondering if Saddam was anywhere on your lists? He was a sick and twisted man himself, testing weapons on his own people and torturing and killing any opposition. His youngest son was also just as bad, if not worse, and did his fair share of torture and killing. To anyone who will argue me and say that I’m just saying that as justification: I have talked to people who live in Iraq and who ran from Iraq because of the extreme oppression Saddam caused so this leads me to my suggestion. However, I also believe everyone has a right to there opinion. I took an oath with my hand over my heart to defend the Constitution of the U.S. and the 1st amendment is for freedom of speech and I support that. I love this country…I’d die for it.

  • RJ Vaughn

    i thought of another evil dead to me the man himself was not evil but this one genocide of his was, his name was Mithridates VI a mastermind general and one the most inspiring kings of old but his night of vespers or Asiatic Vespers was an evil deed where he ordered 80,000 romans that lived in his realm killed, some say it was all in one night, i dont know myself but it was an evil deed

  • karismac

    Hey and of course there is Pee Wee Herman …

  • Dudalak

    They are the most evil men of the past, on the actual list it’ll certainly have Georg W. Bush, he’s going to same way that these men were

  • Horus the Elder

    I would have to agree that Cheney belongs on this list. If you think he’s concerned with ‘spreading democracy’ or some such hogwosh, you are mistaken. He, along with GHWB, Rummy et al are responsible for the deaths of untold Iraqis, Afghanis and Central Americans. Not to mention the Americans who have fought and died for his profiteering.

  • readandthink

    You are all selfish fools. Anonymously arguing to convince others to see things your way is embarrassing. We all have our own opinions.

  • Horus the Elder

    Yes, and anonymously calling people names is so much more mature. Laughable. Most of the people on here are simply expressing their opinions, which is exactly what commenting is supposedd to be about. I don’t care who disagrees with me; eveyone’s entitled.

  • karismac

    Yes Horus, Well said! I was wondering how expressing ones opinion
    could be considered selfish, but anyway back to the subject at hand,

    and what about Barney the Dinosaur? (have you ever wondered… )

  • ScrappyCoco

    i think Rasputin could be among the top 100 evil people…. he surely looks like satan… hehehe

  • karismac

    Yes indeed … and what about all of those
    “He who shall not be named” banking family

  • George W. Bush

    What about liberals? Communists were evil but so are socialists.

  • Sam

    I certianly don’t think that Bush/Cheney should be in the top 10, but they are definetly evil. 1.2 million Iraqi men, women, and children dead from a war based on lies, to enrich the Bushies circle of friends? That’s evil, extremely evil. ALthough a lot of liberals who hate Bush so much don’t want to admit that their beloved Kennedy and Johnson got the US into Vietnam and slaughtered 3 million Vietnamese…..One can go on and on.

  • emanuwel fava

    hi to all i am from malta evey one is looking for the evil that there is and do not see it.they are the heaven father and the prance of hell who they worck as the good and the bad but they are the 2 of them evil in the first place.they do all evil and bad and no one say nating to them and on them the.
    1 is the most evil and bad the heaven father who have no marcy for no one and gave power and life to the devil.
    2 the devil is the power of the heaven father hand and him self let him free to do all that him wont to do in this world.
    in this list of the most evil man there is all names of human who the heaven father have use to attack and destroy human and all of them they are borne with hes well and with him knowing what are going to do in this world but who is evil never chang.
    we have all ask hem y y all this bad and evil in this world and we have all pray but we haveint under stand that the one that we are asking help is the one that have than all this evil and bad and have put us in this world to sofer for the mestacs of the heaven father who never stop the evil human to do harm to good human.

  • ap

    where’s MAO ?

  • AllYeRmAs

    Ted Bundy? One of many infamous evil serial murderers…

  • John Doe

    The emporer didnt even have any power during the war.

  • Mace

    I agree with John Doe the emperor most likely didn’t order his men to rape people but if he did he definitly needs a spot on this list.

  • just me

    yeah john doe is right hirohito was a scholar and had nothing to do with involvment in WWII he did carry the title of emporer it was his leading general who was in unofficial control of the country and got japan involved in the war. the reason people think it was hirohito was because the people were ordered to lay down theyre lives for the emporer under command of his leading general. the emporer finally said enough is enough causing japan to submit a formal surrender this is why he was allowd to remain in power after the war. because he had no actual involvement in WWII

  • and another thing

    …and the murder of 12,000,000 native Americans… That’s just “progress”

  • lil nick

    Let’s see, Alexander the Great, Ghengis Khan, Napoleon Bonaparte, Mussilini, and Franco ring any bells?

  • Sam

    I agree with just me…

  • Emily

    I was just surprised that Hitler wasn’t #1.

  • Ukibuki

    Hitler and Stalin need to be switched…what kind of shit is that…I don’t see George H. W. Bush and his son…fucken idiots

  • The movement of the hmm…

    Alot of evil people aren’t published here. Overall, the entire western world went through a phase of racial biology and racial hygienism that lasted into the 60s and killed god knows how many people. Meanwhile the alternative to that was communism, that’s how screwed up the western world was during that time.

    And what about the American “manifest destiny” that caused a holocaust for the native Americans? That’s still to this date the biggest genocide in human history.

    Then of course there’s the random mass murder like the crusades and other conquests. Among the more modern versions we have people killing eachother for diamonds, oil and other commodities (even farming land like in Zimbabwe).

    All in all, history repeats itself. The only thing we know is that no democratic country has attacked another democratic country, ever. So democracy and probably also wealth reduces “evil”.

  • Loose Cannon

    The movement of the hmm… – And what about the American “manifest destiny” that caused a holocaust for the native Americans? That’s still to this date the biggest genocide in human history.

    ‘Manifest Destiny’ was the biggest genocide in human history?? Really? Do you have some point of reference for this baloney or did you just pull it out of your ass?

    The term ‘Manifest Destiny’ was first coined by Jacksonian Democrats in the 1840’s. It was never an official policy of the United States government, but more of an idea or notion.

    At the time of Columbus’ arrival in Hispaniola in 1492, the estimated population of Native Americans in North America was about 40 million by most guesses. The New York Public Library American History Desk Reference states the population was ‘between 15 million and 60 million’, but this includes the Aztec empire and the Inca Empire in Mexico. But anthropologist Henry Dobyns, estimated the aboriginal population of North America as a whole at 18 million and of the present territory of the United States at about 10 million.

    By 1500, the population of Native Americans dwindled to less than 12 million in North America and 8 million in the continental US. By 1900, the Native American population was counted by the US Census as being 237,000. Even if we counted every single death over those 4 centuries as a ‘genocidal act’, it still doesn’t even come close to Stalin’s low estimate of genocide of 20 million.

    Nearly every historian would agree that the vast majority (80%-95%) of Native Americans from 1492-1900 died from infectious diseases of which the natives had little to no immunization. Given that the term ‘GENOCIDE’ is defined as a crime of intent, clearly the mass depopulation wasn’t colonists from Europe or even the US Government but viruses and bacteria that colonists unknowingly brought with them.

    Historian Stafford Poole puts it this way:
    “There are other terms to describe what happened in the Western Hemisphere, but genocide is not one of them. It is a good propaganda term in an age where slogans and shouting have replaced reflection and learning, but to use it in this context is to cheapen both the word itself and the appalling experiences of the Jews to mention a major victim of this century.”

    American historian Russell Thornton writes in “American Indian Holocaust” that the estimated Native Americans who were killed, wounded, and captured from 1850 until 1890, during the so-called ‘Manifest Destiny’ time period was about 45,000.

    Given the same time period, historian Gregory Michno states in his detailed statistics that about 21,586 dead, wounded, and captured Native American civilians and soldiers.

    Last words: I realize that on the left these days it’s ‘cool’ and ‘hip’ to demonize the history of the United States, and even ‘cooler’ if you can blame it on the current administration, but the reality is that the US Government BOUGHT the vast majority of Native American land it acquired during the so-called ‘Manifest Destiny’. Except in the cases of the Mexican-American war from 1846-1848, whereby about 6,000 Mexicans were killed, wounded or captured.

    In fact, since even Washington’s administration, it was the official policy of the US Government to purchase the land we needed or wanted from the natives who inhabited it. In most cases it was cheaper to buy the land, then to simply raise an army, move it to the secluded territory we wanted, then wage war for days or even weeks, which would cost ammunition, food, water, and other supplies.

    Unfortunately, this notion doesn’t sit well with the poorly educated leftists in America or other countries. Rather the US should be the bane of the modern world, both in its past and its present, then to acknowledge the truth about US History. How very sad!

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  • prollywillnotseeyourreply

    Loose Cannon, you got trolled HARD.

    Also, your an idiot.

    Bush is not evil, just stupid. Cheney is an arrogant scumbag. Probably not evil, but definitely not good. Right wing ideology has run the country into the ground. This is indisputable. Ideology exists so that people don’t need to think. This is worse then being poorly educated.

    The most left-leaning states have the best universities and highest test scores in the nation. (
    The residents of these states are not poorly educated. Certainly not nearly as bad as those of the ‘Red States’.

    Buying land does not explain the ‘disappearance’ of 12 million people. For every obscure crackpot you can come up with who says the Native-American genocide didn’t happen, there are about 4 or 5 prominent historians who would argue otherwise, and they wouldn’t sound like idiots either.

    How much you want me to put up for where you live? Oh BTW I’m going to slaughter your family while I’m at it.

    I’m sure Conservative economic policy didn’t intend to allow the financial sector to tank. That must make it good sound policy instead of foolishness. This is, of course, your logic, not mine.

    History will judge your ilk. History clearly sees your kind happily selling the future of your species for immediate gain.

    You will spend the rest of your bitter wasteful life stamping away at a keyboard on internet forums, trying in vane to justify yourself and your actions. You attempt to convince others that your right, but who are you trying to convince, me or you?

  • Hammerin’ Away

    According to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a “vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record.” By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the “worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people.” In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr., “there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a ‘race’ of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history.”

    Yeah that’s about 4…. Got another crackpot?

  • Loose Cannon


    Then why would I bother to reply?

  • Loose Cannon

    Hammerin’ AwayAccording to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado…..Got another crackpot?

    Speaking of crackpots, Ward Churchill is one of your sources? Professor of ETHNIC studies? You are JOKING, right?

    Actually, Churchill WAS a professor of ethnic studies from 1990 til 2007. The man who coined the term ‘Little Eichmann’ to describe the people killed on 9/11, is no longer a professor. Anywhere.

    On May 16, 2006 the UC Investigative Committee, a five-member subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Research Misconduct, agreed unanimously that Churchill had engaged in “serious research misconduct,” including four counts of falsifying information, two counts of fabricating information, two counts of plagiarizing the works of others, improperly reporting the results of studies, and failing to “comply with established standards regarding author names on publications.” In addition, the committee found him “disrespectful of Indian oral traditions.”


    While we’re conducting this..ahem…spirited discussion, let’s at least define what “Genocide” is, shall we?
    As defined by Webster’s, genocide is “the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.”

    Deliberate. Systematic.

    There isn’t a serious historian I’ve read who hasn’t confessed that a majority of the native population in the Americas during the time of 1500 to 1900 didn’t die of disease.

    Theresa Thiel of the Department of Biology at the University of Missouri states that “in the early 18th century 90% of the Indians in one area of Mass were killed by a small pox epidemic”, as opposed to the Europeans who only suffered a 10% mortality rate.

    Does that sound either deliberate or systematic? After all, the Europeans in that area no doubt contracted small pox as well, but didn’t die at the rates the Native Americans did.

    It’s as if the Germans got into the poison showers and ovens along with the Jews, and somehow only 10% of the Germans died, yet almost every Jew did.

    This is why your example, and your, ahem, sources, are not believable.

    For example, Ward Churchill actually manufactures and authors some of Stiffarm and Lane’s work. Citing Churchill, Stiffarm AND Lane as your ‘sources’, is a bit dishonest, since they appear to all come from the same source.;view=text;rgn=main;idno=5240451.0001.009

    I’m not going to attempt to guess your level of education, level of informativeness, or intelligence but it would seem to me that you could have done a MUCH better job of citing sources. A much, MUCH, better job.

    I’m done with you, now move along.

  • Aquietman

    Why is it that any time an evil or atrocity is mentioned anywhere on the internet or in the mainstream media President Bush’s name is brought up? Though many people think that he is some sort of war monger the truth of our political situation is so much more sinister than is seen. Those with weak hearts and weak minds lash out like children kicking at anyone within range of their temper tantrums. I am truly saddened to see the short memory and the terrible betrayal that the American people have propagated on those whose only works have been that of service. There are greater acts of kindness and goodness being performed in the nation of Iraq than on our own “free” soil. I have been there and have seen the lives of those within that nation go from constant bombardment to the freedom to trade and earn wealth. There are things that embarrass me as an American and as a human being. These embarrassments are only compounded by the uninformed and unintelligible thoughts of a growing number of sheep. “President Bush is evil. President Bush hates black people. President Bush created this credit crisis”, is all that is heard from this group of harpies laden with their guilty consciences and no way to soothe that conscience but to scream at the top of their lungs to drown out the sound of truth. According to the death toll of Americans in WWII was 416,800 over approximately 4 years of combat. The current death toll in Iraq and Afghanistan combined is estimated at around 4500 personnel. The number of injured is much larger. Many say that even just one death is too many. Is one death too much of a price? Do we hate Middle Easterners so much that their freedom is not even worth the life of one of our sons or daughters. I have offered up my life on the altar of Liberty as has every person who has served in the armed forces of the United States. There is nothing that brings greater honor upon any soldier, sailor, marine or airman than to die in the cause of Liberty. Anyone’s Liberty. I knew people that I will never see again in this life. I have felt the sting of those things that can not be named in civilized society. I have been there and done that. I did not see the worst but I did not see the best either. I am ashamed of my fellow Americans for their weak hearts and their back-sliding attitudes. There is much that I would change starting with reminding people of what happened on September 11th 2001. To believe that our own government would kill 3500 people just to start an unpopular war is ludicrous at best. Who is doing what is the question. There is a trend here and we must recognize and stop this trend. We are being bullied into situations that none of us want. We are losing our freedoms and being told it is for the sake of security. Do you know why these evil men on this list prospered? Because good people stood by and watched as their fellow citizens were jailed, tortured, subjugated and finally murdered. Because good people gave up their dignity in trade for “security”. No government has ever remained beneficent over the long haul. And no government ever has offered true security to anyone. There is no power in abdicating power. All evil leaders were placed in their positions by first controlling the means of communication. There are terrible things afoot and the biased media is only the start of worse things to come. These evil-doers created a false sense of insecurity among their own people and the like some kind of savior they stepped in to save the day. Beware he that proclaims himself/herself to be anything but a man/woman.

  • rushfan

    Loose Cannon and Aquietman ~ I can’t tell you how great it is to hear from clear-thinking people who aren’t sheep and aren’t afraid to speak the unpopular truth. Please, keep it up, your voices are being heard and appreciated. It’s refreshing to finally have some people on our side who can intelligently represent our point of view.

  • wha!!

    This list seems to be derived from body count and not just evilness.

    Stalin for instance was an evil bastard, but a lot of his kills came from fuck-ups.

    Bush is a fuck up, but his mistakes haven’t cost the lives of massive amounts of people. I think a more accurate list of evil people based on evil motivations would include some serial killers. They have far less body counts but I think they are more evil, and not just fuck-ups like Bush. That may be why people draw comparisons.

    BTW the term ‘evil-doer’ is from comic books, and is far to vague to be used in a proper political discussion.

    Also Loose Cannon makes me lol, I bet I can waste 30 minutes of his time for every 1 minute of Google cut-and-paste.

  • farouk

    Put the American Gov. on the list! The presidents of this country began by wiping the Native Americans and continued by enslaving my people the African American who are still suffering at their hands.They have supported and encouraged every kind of dictator and oppressor in the world and continue to kill people in Iraq and Afganistan.
    And yes I am worried that I will be jailed for my views.

  • farouk

    How can you put Khomeni on the list. Killing the Shah’s (supported by the US and the Zionist republic) henchmen and MKO terrorists doesnt make you evil. Genocide and ethnic cleansing of the people of Palestine, starving civillians and killing 350,000 Iraqis over 10 year period does.

  • Loose Cannon

    wha!!Also Loose Cannon makes me lol, I bet I can waste 30 minutes of his time for every 1 minute of Google cut-and-paste.

    I bet you could as well. Ignorance takes but a fleeting second. Anyone can spout the most ignorant, unintelligible, and incoherent, not to mention incomplete, nonsense the internet can offer.

    Just look at Farouk, Hammerin’ Away, and others on this very list. It’s obvious none have given any thought or reflected intelligently on their posts and reply’s.

    Stupidity is quick and easy.

    Intelligent, informative and witty responses take time and research.

  • Loose Cannon

    faroukAnd yes I am worried that I will be jailed for my views.

    As you should be! I mean, just look at all the hundreds and thousands of people who have been arrested by the US Government for political views they have posted online.

    Worried? You should be downright terrified. You should be nearly insane with panic induced paranoia.

    You should seek out your closet mental clinic and enroll yourself immediately.

    PS, do you also receive special instructions from space concerning the probe in your ass, as well?

  • YogiBarrister

    I see Loose Cannon is still manning the ramparts till the bitter end. Obviously George Bush is evil. He’s cruel, he lies constantly, is narcissistic and paranoid. You simply can’t defend the man or the results of his treachery. I suppose people like LC aren’t going to figure it out until they lose everything they hold dear. The problem is, everyone else, has to suffer for his ignorance, everyone that is except for Bush and his crooked cronies.

  • Parker

    Ah Ivan… The heads rolled in Russia when he was ruler.
    How can the leader before him be called Ivan the great and then this happened.. i guess it was because he thought everyone was out to get him.. which wasnt compleatly false… in the end atleast.

  • Parker

    .. i have a feeling i just mixed Vladamir and Ivan the Terrible together. correct me if im wrong.

  • Dao

    No americans ???? have you heard of the nuclear bomb ?

  • Tlove

    i like learning about history knowin things that i never knew before but look it seems like to mean that Vlad III of Romania (also known as Vlad the Impaler) should be number 1 r 2 not hitler r Josef Stalin n it’s crazy how vlad had ruled for so long with all the horribl things he did i never read abuot someone that vicious he’s horribleand i thought Hitler was physchotic man it says that Vlad killed 10 thousand people in just 1460 alone one year ten thousand died that’s insane and this man ruled for 28 years lord know’s how many he tortured for his own enjoyment ok thanks for making this website lots of info

    • Radu Vis

      My god how can u be so stupid and infatuated. u said u read history to know things!!! God there has to be a moral punishment for ur stupidity. Vlad never killed 10.000 people u shit. thats not history. there war killing during war and nothing more. whatever u said is Hollywood not history. my god at least stop that shit about u reading history. get ur info right. history is not Hollywood

  • Mr. Green

    What about Oliver Cromwell, a man known for the massacre of thousands of innocent men, women, and children of Ireland. His soul will rot in hell next to these tyrant bastards.

  • kml

    I began reading this list out of mild curiosity after seeing a clip of a show, “Most Evil”. I had no argument with your choices nor the suggestions that came after as a theoretical exercise. However, as I read the tone and ferocity of some of the replies,I became alarmed as I realized the very source of the evil represented in your list was manifesting itself on your site. I could imagine if some of the participants could actually be in physical contact, violence would ensue. It is a wonder to me and disappointment that human beings still have not learned to examine the atrocities of the past (which I believe you to be trying to do) and change our behavior for the sake of all men.
    Possibly some are entertained by the flippant attacks, but many are deadly serious in their hatred. Perhaps the concepts of evil and hatred are intertwined so tightly they can’t be separated in our minds. Perhaps the site should be taken down or at least, inflammatory remarks not permitted.

  • asseel

    heeeeey jfrater …. I loved the list and I thought its convincing … its always easy to find the evil and so very hard to find the good … but I wanna ask you something how come you didn’t mention Sharon in your list … I know that you’re a claver person and you’ve done your research but can I ask you a favour look throughout history and calculate the number of children, woman, young men and elderly persons … people who were performing their prayers … the number of victims caused by Sharon … may be he didn’t cross you mind cause we live in a region where no one really cares … but I can assure you he is gonna win first place … thanx for all the great information you provides us with …

  • FD

    Your research into this list is ridiculous. Please check facts before you publish. How you have a holy, respectable person of the eminence of Khomeini is beyond me. What have you based that entry on? Where did you get this obviously inaccurate, atrocious info? A simple thing as looking him up on Wikipedia will reveal your ignorance.

  • smithstar4

    Actually Emperor Hirohito was kept in the dark about the “rape of Nanking” as he was about much of WW2,including the sneak attack at Pearl Harbor. I think you may have him confused with General Tojo who was hanged after the war.

  • Peter

    FD- holy maybe, respectable definately not. He supported the hostage takers in 1979-80, called for the assassination of an indian born citizen who spoke against his religion, and established sharia law and was generally an enemy of free speech and freedoms. However, being 6th on this list is quite ridiculous, saddam hussain would be a far more adequate choice. Hell mugabe, or even Mao zedong would be a much better choice. HEY WHERE IS MAO? Tens of millions died in his cultural and agricultural revolution… List fails without him

    At the very first comment, LOL WUT? Some people are just irrationally stupid

  • Peter

    also, nero, caligula, and other evil men from antiquity and early/mid middle ages are notably absent

  • M Firouz

    These are bullshit …
    I don’t know what were your sources, you know yourself?
    american governers and Israelies were and are the most wild and evil men in the history. They kill everyone who is against them.
    Hey boy, I know Ruhollah Khomeyni. he wasn’t as you explained. He was a great man with a great attitude, great soul, great and great. He was a wise, kind and comkpltant man in Iran.
    Now, I think your source is an american or israeli list or, you suffer from a mental disorder.

  • PatrioticNigerian

    I think ayatollah khomeini is a pretty cool guy. he tortures his own people and he doesn’t afraid of anything.

  • Simon Cowell

    M Firouzamerican governers and Israelies were and are the most wild and evil men in the history. They kill everyone who is against them.


    I’m gonna have to go with a 2 out 10 for your trolling attempt.

    You started out strong with the ‘These are bullshit.’ And the sarcasm, though worded incorrectly, came off sincere enough. But when you started on the ‘american governors and Israelies’ that ‘kill everyone who is against them’ just wasn’t doing it for me.

    And then knowing Khomeini, as well? You knew him, have access to thousands of documents and journalist articles about the man on the web, and still think he was ‘great’?

    The last lines just came out wilted and canned. There was no real spite and certainly no believability in your claim to have met the man.

    A 2, definitely. And that is a lot.

  • SeaninScotland

    Loose Cannon your an idiot.

  • Peter


    *thumbs up*

  • PC

    I was initially surprised to see Hitler at number 2. Until I saw it was Stalin at number 1. Many people forget that he killed millions. That was all brushed under the carpet by the allies who wanted people to view him as a “friend”. He killed more people than any other in history and it cost his country dearly. The purge of army staff lead to the initial success of the Nazis in Russia. In Russia he is still viewed as a national hero and is for a vote for the “name of Russia” ill find a link and link it if anyone doubts me.

  • PC

    I found a web page.

    Stalin came a chilling third.


  • c w

    right in the middle of this list of evil people, barack obama’s picture popped up with the caption “barack obama’s i.q. is 125, can you beat that. it was one of your ads…i think that’s really funny.

  • jdizzle

    Seriously… Dick Cheney should be on this list.

  • archangel

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe Hirohito was only the unfortunate ruler at a time when Japanese officials were engaging in WW2. He did not engage much in political affairs and was indeed the one who surrendered Japan to the allies, even honourably claiming the burden of Japan’s disgrace and crimes all to himself just because he was emperor.

  • John651

    Very nice site!

  • Cybogen

    Mr. Rogers

  • John1524

    Very nice site!

  • Signe

    Thank you jfrater for putting Stalin as no 1, it is amazing that so few people have heard of him.
    although I don’t agree with Loose_canon who belives it some sort of left wing cover up, it is most likely because the Sovjet was a completely closed country and informations about the horrible things Stalin did not reach the rest of the world until years later.
    We have all heard about the holocaust because it was revealed during a war (no one knew about until the Sovjet army found the camps in Poland) and the information was used against Germany and Hitler bu the Sovjets.

    Thank you for inlightning me about Leopold of Belgium and Unit 731, I have never heard of those, scary what people can do to each other!

    I would also have like to se Slobodan Milosevic on the notable omissions – two words: “Rape Camps”!

  • Sparrow

    Why isn’t jeremy Kyle on there?
    he should at least be joint with either hitler or stalin

  • Daniela

    In my opinion, Kim Jong Il would have made a better ‘Bonus’.

  • Good Nads

    I do think that without Stalin, Russia would have not survived WWII, and that “could” make up for at least some of the stuff he’s done.

  • Wilz

    I think we should be democratic about it, and vote Loose Cannon off this message board. All in favor?

  • oeseph

    i cant beleive people keep mentioning bush. people always insult him, but can never name one bad thing he did. and bambi= stalin, well, at least bamsi din’tkill his own mother…stalin did , and bush didnt

  • Loose Cannon

    WilzI think we should be democratic about it, and vote Loose Cannon off this message board. All in favor?

    Right, because nothing says democracy like restricting access to the minority point of view, if I even am in the minority, which I am not.

    Yes, let’s take a vote on silencing those we disagree with, not only in this particular forum, but in all forums. Why should we have to put up with views that are different then our own? Why should we have to listen to opposing ideas that make us feel uncomfortable and question our facts?

    Furthermore, let’s take the next step and just sentence Bush, Cheney and others to be punished for their crimes. Why bother with a trial, when they seemingly denied so many others of one? Let’s take a vote on it! Isn’t that democratic, deciding who’s guilty or not, by majority vote? We could just hold a national referendum on guilt or innocence on every politician we ‘feel’ has broken a law. No need for testimony, evidence of fact, or those namby-pamby indictments! Let’s just allow the information we’ve gleamed from the media that surrounds us to be the testimony. And we can use our ‘feelings’ about how happy we are, or aren’t, because of Bush and his cronies in DC!

    Wilz, I think you’ve hit upon the greatest idea anyone has ever had, not only of removing the voices of those we don’t ‘like’, but also of how justice should be served in this new century!

    I will cast the first vote – Not Guilty!

    /Or do we use ‘disagree’. or, perhaps, ‘Nah’?

    //What does Robert’s Rules dictate should happen next? Does this get ‘tabled’, or something?

    ///Let me know the outcome. I’ll be waiting on pins, etc.

  • Silver

    hitler should be number one. and i will tell you exactly why. first of all WW2 is basicaly all his fault. which in result had around 72mln ppl dead all around the world. out of which were the holocaust victims such as 6mln jews which is 67% of all jews, 1.2mln gipsys and around 600 000 other cultures ppl. now holocaust victims were shot, poisoned, raped, and killed with other cruel means. they were used by german doctors as guinea pigs for experiments, such as cuting off arms, legs, or taking out other organs, and sewing them to other ppl. these experiments were done without using any anasthetics, on fully conscious ppl. other experiments include freezing ppl to near death and trying to warm them back up with hot water, sewing 2 ppl together, swiching ppls bloods, trying to change the eye color by injecting ink through a needle directly into the eye, etc etc etc…. and it was all done to living people, regardles of age or gender, in fact most of the experiment vicims were children… so basicaly the way i see hitler is like he was not even human, but rather a devil in human form, a pure antichrist, i bet if he would have gotten a nuclear weapon the earth would now simply be called germany…

  • Brian

    Plagiarism, much? Compare the Idi Amin entry, here, to the Wikipedia entry.

    Try writing your own material

  • WPW

    Most evil people in the world:

    1. Adolf Hitler
    2. Heinrich Himmler
    3. Joseph Stalin
    4. Napoleon Bonaparte
    5. Idi Amin Dada
    6. Attila the Hun
    7. Pol Pot
    8. Ivan the Terrible
    9. Mary I of England
    10. Hilary Clinton

  • Joseph52

    Mao Zedong’s absence from this list is a glaring omission.

    And WPW–“Hilary” [sic] Clinton? C’mon, get real.

  • archangel

    WPW? I agree with some people on your list, but the rest seem like the product of historical and cultural bias.

  • poisonedapple

    Thank Christ someone finally pipes up about Stalin, as a German I am sick and tired hearing about Hitler. Second World War blah blah blah Camps blah blah blah evil blah…

    It gets old, I do not question the outcome as evil, I just don’t believe he is the ultimate evil. I leave that title to any memeber in the Bush Administration, sorry but if we were given the clear numbers like the Jews (I do question the numbers) have given us (and for the record I am a German Jew), I am sure they top Stalin and Hitler combined, it’s funny how they have better stats from WWII than they do now?. How does that work?.

    Anyways, good list, an interesting bedtime story.

  • dsassa

    This is bullshit Hirohito wasn’t even the one who was in charge he was like the queen of england is now his military leader who he didn’t even choose, held more power than he did, he was a spineless dumb man, also you can’t really make a list of evil men because they’re not evil in their eyes & they weren’t in some others eyes, as a matter of fact if they had gotten what they had hoped to achieve then people like churchill would be on this list, was churchill evil? no, why is that? he won,
    I’m not saying I think Winston Churchill is evil, I believe he is one of the more noble men of politics, I am also not condoning what the japanese did, nor Stalin or hitler

  • Dave


    I agree with some of the things you said. But Hitler’s involvement in the camps is vastly exaggerated, when he did visit the camps (which wasn’t very often) they cleaned up and made the prisoners look clean, a lot of times he would only see the newly arrived ones only. Also Heinrich Himmler (spelling) was the one enchanrged of handling what happened and who was sent to the camps. Hitler was much more interested in conquering the world, although this doesn’t mean he wasnt aware of what happened I wouldnt say its his sole responsability.

  • Gen

    Hey Jfrater I have been follwoing your website for a long time now and never commented so this is a first. It appears there isnt a single mention of Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo yet everyone seems to jump on the Bush bandwagon and it saddens me to think that Equatorial Guinea is missed because of its size yet Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo has been noted as Africa’s worst dictator and although he may not have killed as many as most people on your list the crimes he has committed are extreamly disturbing, so i thought I’d give him a mention.

  • amslopogas

    It doesn’t matter how many people one kills or massacres! When one distroys or kills ONE soul, its equals to destroying the entire humanity and when one saves ONE soul its is equal to saving the entire humanity. Which one would you agree with?

  • Sherry

    Where is proof that either Judas Iscariot or Jesus of Nazareth were actual people rather than fictional characters?

  • my own person

    like it or not you have to agree some of these guys could have been great leaders no matter how bizzare they were, if they didnt go so mad with power!!!

  • Wayne1770

    Those who say Mao should be on the list are idiots.
    Mao rarely ordered an execution – deaths under his rule were due to incompetence. In fact he repeatedly enjoined his subordinates to use the death penalty sparingly saying “human heads are not like leeks – once chopped off they don’t grow back.”
    Overall life expectancy improved greatly during his 27 years in charge and social services, especially medical were in some cases better than what Chinese have now.

    The Great Leap Forward was of course a terrible tragedy, but hardly deliberate in any sense of the word – in fact it was well-intentioned – he wanted to haul the country out of abject poverty in as short a time as possible.

    Mao’s executions mainly occurred during the struggle for power – it was dog eat dog – and killed or be killed. That type of killing is altogether completely different from the deliberate slaughter of completely innocent women and children as carried out by the Nazis.

    As for Chinese being ‘ignorant’ of Mao’s crimes as a previous poster put it – what BS – Mao only died 33 years ago – and he is very popular among both young and old. Many people still have nostalgia for the days of his rule. If he murdered as many Chinese people as what some in the West say, he would hardly be used admired by those who are his supposed victims – the Chinese people.

  • Wayne1770

    How about George Bush, or Richard Nixon or Lyndon Johnson – how many completely innocent civilians were slaughtered by American bombs under these three men?

  • Wayne1770

    Hitler obviously did not just kill 6million. He started a war that killed 60 to 70million people – so that puts him at the top in my opinion.

    And when it gets to millions of deaths, a man who may have killed one million is in no way ‘better’ than a man who may have killed 10million.

    Hitler would no doubt have killed far more if he had won the war.

    Europe under Naziism would no doubt have been a far worse place than under communism.

    Stalin killed those who opposed him – many leaders have done this throughout history. Stalin may have been more efficient (although the actual death toll under Stalin has been wildly exaggerated). Hitler killed certain people for just existing. There is an important qualitative difference here, and one that makes Hitler quite unique – even when compared with blood-soaked tyrants like Genghis Khan.

    Hitler should be at the top.

  • kgshahid

    Where is muhammad, the so-called prophet of islam? He murdered thousands, tortured, mutilated, raped, enslaved, beheaded and had innocent people assassinated! Not to mention the radical murderers he spawned. If you look at all the murders done in the name of islam, muhammad takes the number one spot!

  • kgshahid: You S.0.B. $TFU.

  • Bodbad

    Tepes was the most evil man ever.

  • qwerty

    why isn’t Hitler #1? Stalin was driven by insecurity and fear like Hitler was, but he did not attempt to exterminate an entire group of people in an act of pure, vicious racism. Stalin also never tried to conquer the world. You also should have considered Kim Jong Il, some other major Nazis, Saddam Hussein, and some serial killers who killed out of spite, not delusions or disturbed desires.

  • Mark

    508. qwerty : Based purely on numbers, I agree that “evil” isn’t the best tag for this list. But you understand that on amount of people killed Stalin trumps Hitler right?

  • spike

    have a good time in hell, adolf. i have family i’ll never meet because of you.

  • name

    I think it’s funny how loose cannon argues using facts and sticks to the topic, whereas his critic club just calls him names

  • beAST

    where is Saddam.

  • yooo

    everyone knows stalins made mass starvations in ukraine right?
    just so you know…

  • Flakdragon

    Probably the 10 next worse…
    1. Heinrich Himmler (the real mastermind behind the Holocaust)
    2. Mao Zedong and/or Chiang Kai-Shek
    3. Kim Jong Il
    4. Shir? Ishii
    5. Hernán Cortés
    6. Harry S. Truman. (dropped the bomb against the will of his generals and scientists)
    7. Andrew Jackson
    8. Genghis Khan
    9. Caligula
    10. Elizabeth Barthoy

  • Flakdragon

    and @kgshahid, I could make that very case for Yahweh and his followers. Christians have killed, raped, pillaged, and beheaded just as many people as the Muslims have. It’s just that the Christian-centric society you live in rarely advertises the Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch Trials, and hate crimes committed in the name of the Church. No religion has been without conflict, so stop acting like such a self-righteous, pious idiot.

  • karismac

    Yes Elizabeth (Bathory) was a nasty piece of work, she also unwittingly fuelled
    the witch hunts when they realised that prosecuting female aristocracy (whose family were happy to be rid of them) meant they could seize a lot of land. In her case it was certainly warranted and a surprise kind of bonus, after they had locked her in one of her own towers then they realised they had gained a lot of land in the process and it soon became an attractive option where warranted or not.

    Not only was Elizabeth sadistic and obsessive in her killing, she was also untidy. When they came to deal with her (finally) there were dead bodies strewn all about the place, including near the front entrance. Her female partner in crime Darvula (sounds similar to Dracula hey) deserves a mention also.

  • Takethat12

    Listen mates and yankee dikheads if were talking really evol people it would be truly twisted guys like geoffy dahmer, H.H.Holmes and Jim Jones, guys like Stalin almost had to kill so many people in order to establish regimes and order, while the other guys did it just to see people suffer.

  • Boogie

    Bin Laden? Personally I’d have Maggie Thatcher there too, but that’s just me.

  • Boogie: that is, of course, a little difficult as she is not a man :)

  • Boogie

    ah, true, fantastic point. although there is some debate over her gender. i think she was only given the title ‘lady thatcher’ as a government backed smoke screen.

    and she managed to produce mark and carol, two revolting specimens. spawned.

  • Jamie3039

    Oliver Cromwell was certainly an evil man if we are talking about mass murdering

  • tommy

    obama will shortly join this list

  • Mongol

    I think Genghis Khan was much more evil than Attila. At Khan’s death he had a massive empire that came about because of a purely evil desire to conquer everything. Here are two facts, proving my point. 1. While Attila was born into an already powerful empire, Genghis built his empire. 2. Attila was only 19 when he died, while Genghis Khan had 65 years to kill and destoy.

    I know much more about Genghis Khan, but will have to look up more about Attila. If you would just look up both men and compare them, I think you will see that Genghis Khan was more evil than Attila. Please respond and let me know your thoughts on the subject.


  • Marek PL

    “The Soviet Story” (2008)
    The Soviet Story is a story of an Allied power, which helped the Nazis to fight Jews and which slaughtered its own people on an industrial scale. Assisted by the West, this power triumphed on May 9th, 1945. Its crimes were made taboo, and the complete story of Europe’s most murderous regime has never been told. Until now?


    The film tells the story of the Soviet regime.

    – The Great Famine in Ukraine (1932/33)
    – The Katyn massacre (1940)
    – The SS-KGB partnership [in the late 1930s the KGB was called NKVD]
    – Soviet mass deportations
    – Medical experiments in the GULAG.

    These are just a few of the subjects covered in the film.

    The Soviet Story also discusses the impact of the Soviet legacy on modern day Europe. Listen to experts and European MPs discussing the implications of a selective attitude towards mass murder; and meet a woman describing the burial of her new born son in a GULAG concentration camp.
    The Soviet Story is a story of pain, injustice and realpolitik.

  • lawrence

    what about Israeli PM Sharon?

  • karismac

    Yes Israel – Now we are getting closer – and what about Benjamin Netanyahu? We should all be keeping a close eye on that man!

  • pulled in

    Ok I accidently found this page when arsing about bored on the internet… I have dedicated most of my evening to reading each and every post her because its just so god damn entertaining… how is that people can’t just debate intelligently? Why all the need for insults?

    Not like it will matter in the grand scheme of things but heres what I think… It’s just a list!!

    I think it’s the same as when tv does those stupid “100 greatest movies” and “50 best on screen romance” countdowns… all the right people are there just never in the place that YOU think they should be… if it was a top 100 hundred list then I would assume half the people mentioned above would be listed somewhere.

    Loose Cannon – I am not American, I dont profess to be a liberal or a democrat or any other category that you or anyone else would like to pigeon hole me into.. I have opinions like you and everyone else here. If someone dissagrees with me then thats fine, I’ll take it on board but I wont change my mind unless presented with hard undesputable fact. Your comments can be funny at times and your retorts even funnier but please lay off the “tin foil hats” “anal probing” “big foot” and “elvis” it was funny the first two or three times but not so much anymore and the more repetive its become the less impact your points have (and sometimes.. yes sometimes you make some valid points). I’m not a fan of Bush or Cheney, I think the first is stupid and the second a bit of a bastard but then I think politicians in general are bastards… Maybe anyone with power is a wank, maybe power makes you a wank or maybe just maybe the only way to make it in politics and get power is to be a wank… I dont know.. what I do know is that if it was a “top 100 wankiest politions who are just a little bit evil list” then both Cheney and Bush would be there…

    ANYhoo… please all of you (especially you loose cannon, by the way I don’t mean to single you out but you’re the main offender for insanity insults) stop calling people insane or telling them that they need mental help etc… its an opinion, doesnt matter if its right or wrong everyone is allowed to have one… especially when it comes to something as harmless as discussing a list of people posted on the internet.

    Point is.. I have qualifications in Psychology, I studied it for six years and I don’t think even I (with more experience in mental health studies than you Loose Cannon) could assess the mental health of any of these people posting based on nothing more than what they have said. It’s not funny and its not clever and to be honest its getting a little old.

    Just to summarise… relax everyone, its just a list and its just an opinion.

    That is all.

  • pulled in

    Oh yeah and you may not agree with me but sure you’re entitled to you’re own opinion…. :D

  • Jeffo

    Oh my god, you liberals are effin’ idiot!!! You know that middle east women are most oppressed in middle east. Former president Bush gave them a freedom, freed from being a slavery to men and to muslim law. I thought democrat always supports women rights, but I guess not. Effin’ hypocrite democrats.

    Whoever claimed that Dick Cheney has killed more middle eastern ppl is effin’ idiot. You know that middle eastern ppl killed many christian people whom is found guilty in muslim world. That’s 100x more than Dick Cheney has killed people, but that’s kinda irony thing that Dick Cheney believed in freedom and killed those people whom don’t follow freedom. Decide what you like: freedom or slave to the government.

    You democrats is the most hypocrite and liar people, and you should not invlove with politic, period.

  • tiptoe

    i think this is all nothen and this is all stupid!! people died sometime why not now?

  • tiptoe

    i love sex! by seth enright to ashley fox

  • communism

    This list is realy realy sucks ! Joseph Stalin is a Real Hero , 1 – Mohhamad of Islam 2-Jesus 3-AMERICA 4-AMERICA 5-AMERICA 6-AMERICA 7-AMERICA 8-AMERICA 9-AMERICA 10- AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAA SUCKS

  • seven_moons

    My main problem with this list is that it compares and ranks people from different periods in History, with acess to different resources and in different social and political contexts, making it impossible to say which was worst. Even if Attila wanted to kill 6 million people, it would be impossible, if for nothing else, for the lack of 6 million people available to kill.
    On the other hand, if Pol Pot had acess to the same resources Hitler and Stalin did, i very much suspect he would have killed the ENTIRE population of Cambodja.
    Just another note. You used the total number of deaths to rank them but you dont use the time in power factor at all. Hitler was in power for 12 years and Stalin was in power for almost 30 years. If we consider that Hitler was also the main responsable for the destruction and death of WWII, it seems to me he should be first on the list.

  • Uallsuck

    You all kill me the way you pick each other apart over grammar or punctuation. Who cares. What are you a bunch of teachers? I believe the most evil would be all who participate in any event that causes the death of another from the leaders to the killers to those who stand by and do nothing to stop it.

  • Carl

    seven_moons: you make some good points. My pre 1900’s history is pretty shakey but there are so many circumstances to take into account when devising this list up. I dare say it would be more accurate to put it into ‘of what century’.

    What i want to know is where is Mao, where is Mugabe.. and where is that vile snake Nixon..?

    Wayne1770: Mao was a heartless prick and well deserves to be on that list. Between the spring of 1959 and the end of 1961 some 30 million Chinese starved to death and about the same number of births were lost or postponed. This is the largest famine in recorded history. I’m not sure exactly how many deaths can be blamed on Mao, but you can’t say his decisions/debts to Russia didn’t cause millions of deaths. Mao did not need to call executions often because he had a whole country turned crazy and anyone against the party would be found and dealt with. Lets not mention the suppression of the people’s personality for decades which is still felt today.

    And yes, that previous poster who ever it was, was correct. The Chinese are STILL being fed disinformation after how many years. The Hong Kong news broadcast on mainland Chinese TV to THIS date is STILL censored. They are STILL trying to hide some of the outside world. The whole system that Mao created was to blind the people and make it look like he was doing such a great job, and according to Mao, meanwhile the capitalist’s were living in a life of agony and misery. I live in China and have been for a year now. Why the evil prick is still on the bank notes is beyond me.

    Due to the nature of the Chinese government I don’t think we will ever know how many kills Mao ordered during his reign. Estimates are that just during the cultural revolution of the 50’s and early 60’s Mao ordered the deaths of over 60 million Chinese.

  • Wayne1770

    Estimates are that just during the cultural revolution of the 50’s and early 60’s Mao ordered the deaths of over 60 million Chinese.

    Carl: just shows what a misinformed fool you are.

    The Cultural Revolution was between 1966 and 1976 (although the worst period was over in 3 or 4 years).

    What source do you use to say that Mao ‘ordered’ 60million deaths?

    30million deaths is a gross exaggeration for the Great Leap. It is more likely 15 to 20 million excess deaths. There was terrible flooding at the time, and also over-reporting of harvests that led to the this catastrophe.

    However overall Mao actually saved lives – in 1949 the average life expectancy was about 35. By the time Mao died it was almost 70.

    And if Mao was so evil, someone who killed so many millions of people, surely the Chinese people would be the first to know it – everyone would surely have had a close relative or friend executed?

    The fact that so many people in China still adore Mao tells you something about the lies the Western media loves to tell about one of the greatest men in history.

    As for you Carl, what right do you have to dictate to the Chinese how they should view their own history? What are your motives? I hardly would believe it is because you love and care so much for the well-being of the Chinese people.

  • Carl

    I have a source to suggest that the famine was 30% environmental/natural disaster factor and 70% human error. Mao was, (barely), human the last time i checked. 70% of between 15 to 30 million is still quite substantial in my books.

    Quote Wayne1770: ‘although the worst period was over in 3 or 4 years’

    Well i guess this makes it all right then.

    Quote Wayne1770: ‘what right do you have to dictate to the Chinese how they should view their own history’

    And where did you pull this garbage from? My motives are simply to put forward that he is an evil bastard and not so much is known about him, hence why a popular biography written about him is called ‘Mao – The Unknown Story’. This is written by a Chinese woman and Bristish man. The author puts forward that Mao was responsible for more deaths in peacetime than Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin. Their estimate is one of the highest yes, but even well informed writers have placed it at over 40 million.

    Read down to ‘Number of deaths under Mao’

    In any case this is a man that also banned books, paintings, musical instruments, sports, cards, chess, tea houses, bars, flowers, pets and yes, even grass. Grass was removed from playing fields and parks.

    Quote Wayne1770: ‘everyone would surely have had a close relative or friend executed?’

    I’m not sure about this, as it is not what the Chinese are known to talk about, or any race for that matter.

    So Wayne.. where the fuck are you getting your information from exactly mate? China has been fed on disinformation for a very long time which i have already stated. And as a matter, yes i do care about the Chinese people and find this unfortunate that there has been a sheath covering all this shit up.

    If you cannot say Mao is in the least bit evil, then you are a low, sadistic prick yourself.

  • Randall


    Unbelievable. Someone defending Mao. What is this, 1968?

    I shall refrain from calling you an inhuman douchebag, Wayne, though I’ll not hide the fact that that’s precisely what I think you are.

    The fact is that Mao’s crimes are well-documented. EVEN IN CHINA, where the government has quietly admitted them, though trying to downplay them and avoid having too much attention brought to the subject.

    Western and other Asian sources, of course, have known the true low-down on Mao’s regime for some time, as information trickled out through various means.

    There WERE natural disasters which caused a great deal of difficulty during the Great Leap Forward, but the criminally stupid and tyrannically brutal policies of Mao guaranteed that the Leap was NEVER going to work, and guaranteed that millions would die REGARDLESS of natural conditions. You clearly know nothing of the details of it, or you wouldn’t be able to sit there and prattle on about Mao being “one of the greatest men in history” with a straight face. (Frankly, I also entertain the possibility that you’re some kind of typical dupe/propagandist who somewhere inside KNOWS that he’s lying). Mao was, in fact, a brutal and narrow-minded SOB who hated experienced men (such as engineers) who knew their work, and hated intellectuals and professionals. He deliberately closed such people out because they were “bourgeois” and he believed they were counter-revolutionary, and had them suppressed and killed by the busload. He then proceeded to issue moronic and unworkable dictates regarding his people and the Leap, which, as I said earlier, guaranteed its failure. As a DIRECT result, MILLIONS DIED from violence, unnecessary starvation, and disease. Oh yes, one of the greatest men in history. Sure.

    Mao was at heart a true Stalinist, who while professing to be against the idea of a “cult of personality,” actually cultivated it. The results were clear to see.

    You bring up, annoyingly–and stupidly–the question of why so many people in China still “love” Mao. I can only deduce from this that you are, quite simply, an idiot. You obviously have no idea how a cult of personality works, and how propaganda and totalitarian suppression works on the human mind. There are still many people in Russia who look back fondly on Stalin. Would you next defend that monster? Perhaps so. But the fact is that people who spend countless years being hammered into believing the near-divine nature of a “great leader” are, sometimes, going to continue to believe it regardless of all evidence to the contrary. For god’s sake, at the end of Nazi Germany there were still many Germans who felt that all the misery and horror of the war were due to the lowlifes AROUND Hitler, but not to the Fuhrer himself. There’s a point, in the hell that is a totalitarian life, where the human mind simply loses its capability of critical thought. This too is well-documented. At the height of Stalinism, in the USSR, there were countless who still believed that Stalin was great and good. Of course, many of these only professed this belief out of fear—terrible fear; and never feeling truly free to recant on it, the mystique of Stalin continued until finally the USSR fell apart. Then down came the statues and the imagery.

    OF COURSE the same situation still pertains in China–a totalitarian regime, for all its economic rosiness and happy face turned to the outside world–and you can damn well bet that there are many people who refrain from badmouthing Mao out of fear–and taught so well to lie to hide their true feelings, they’ll say loving things about the monster, while every once in a while you can get someone to quietly and privately–very privately–open up and admit that they hate him. These people aren’t at all anomalies—except that they have the small courage to at least say it, even if only anonymously and in whispers.

    You are a fool, Wayne… and a detestable fool at that. I assume you live amongst us, somewhere in the West, either here in the US or Europe or some other free part of the world. But you don’t deserve it. A free and open mind is a great gift–and I applaud those who, using that gift, try to keep our governments and societies honest—as they’re in sore need of that honesty, and in sore need of watching. But the mind that praises a rapacious, brutal, mass-murdering dictator is not a free, nor a responsible, mind. It’s a mind that belongs right with those totalitarian idiots who have made such a criminal, digusting misery out of the lives of millions upon millions of innocent fellow human beings.

  • Wayne177027


    Your mindless rhetoric is not based on any facts whatsoever: where is there any evidence at all that Mao had any idea that his policies during the great leap would cause millions of deaths? The Great leap was not only a disaster for the country but a big political setback for him – that is partly why the Cultural Revolution was launched about six years later.

    Mao may have caused deaths through stupid policies – but that is different from deliberate murder. Deaths caused through bad policy are generally not considered to be genocide. Even deaths from military invasion are not – otherwise you could say Nixon or Truman are the equivalent of Pol Pot.

    As for you saying China is a totalitarian place where people fear expressing an opinion of Mao – just shows you have never visited the place.

    Even Jung Chang, that idiot who wrote Mao the unknown story, visits China frequently – and neither her nor her mother suffer any sort of harassment. And so do a whole lot of anti-Mao dissidents such as Li Cunxin, the author of Mao’s last dancer.

    The fact is most Chinese are happy with the direction the country is taking – in fact we are the most optimistic people in the world according to a Pew Research poll conducted not long ago.

    And in any case why do you hate Mao Randall – why so emotional? You are not Chinese – you did not suffer under his rule.

    Or is it because as a white man you cannot stand the rise of a non-white nation to superpower status -something that only a hard man like Mao could have brought about.

  • Wayne177027

    India and China were at similar stages of development in mid 20th century: now look at a comparison of the two countries – India under ‘democratic’ rule, and China under the Communist Party.

    The fact is by eliminating poverty much more efficiently in China, India has proven that it is a far more evil regime simply by the number of excess deaths through poverty that would have been better eliminated under an authoritarian regime.

    “India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame”

    India significantly lags China on a whole host of social and economic indicators – including life expectancy, child mortality rates, childhood nutrition, literacy rates, access to clean water etc. China also obviously is far ahead of India in economic development.

    That is why racists like Randall would rather have China like India under a so called ‘democratic’ regime.
    Randall is smart enough to understand that India will never be able to threaten the West and get payback for imperialism, but China can and will.

  • Wayne177027

    There are still many people in Russia who look back fondly on Stalin. Would you next defend that monster?

    See Randall, I am Chinese – I don’t foist my opinions onto other people and try and tell them how to run their own affairs.

    The fact is Stalin almost was greatest Russian just a few months ago in a nationwide poll (the organizers got frightened and pulled out all the stops to avoid this at the last moment). Regardless of your opinion of Russia’s current political system, it is far and away from totalitarian.

    The Russians seem to take a realistic view of that period of time now – Stalin did some bad things, but also some very good things. Most of all he defeated Hitler and made the Soviet Union a superpower. If Russians, and I know opinion is varied, believe that the purges were an acceptable price to pay for this, then that is their history and for them to pass final judgement on the reputation of the man.

    Just like most Americans would now think slavery and extermination of the Native Americans was an acceptable price for providing lebensraum for white people and the benefits of an industrialized society.

  • Wayne1770

    By the way Carl: 70percent good 30% bad, simply is a judgement on Mao’s life – 70% of the time he made correct decisions, 30% of the time he made bad. It was never applied to the famine deaths in the way you applied it.

    As for quoting Jung Chang – just shows you are an ignoramus. Her book has been roundly panned by most China scholars. It is written in such a polemical, unscholarly way that it is not suitable to be referenced by any academic work or paper on China.

    Some of the assertions in the book are so ludicrous and taken out of context that the author really has just lifted up a rock – only to drop it on her own foot.

    By the way thanks for caring so much about us Chinese Carl – I suppose then you must be inspired by China’s rapid industrial, economic and military rise – though I highly doubt it you lying, patronizing sack of shit.

  • Wayne1770

    If Mao is a villain – then George Washington, who sold a slave for a barrel of molasses is himself the devil in hell.

    So is Abraham Lincoln who wanted to ship all freed slaves back to Africa, and wished for the ‘superior position in society assigned to the white race’ (paraphrase)

  • Mark

    543. Wayne1770 : “If Mao is a villain – then George Washington, who sold a slave for a barrel of molasses is himself the devil in hell…”

    I think you’re blowing that a bit out of proportion. Back then, slavery was the done thing. I am hard pressed remembering a period in history in which killing millions of your own citizens was considered acceptable however.

    Quit while you’re only a little was behind…

  • karismac

    So now we get closer to the heart of it.

    Evil is an interesting concept isn’t it?

    Is wanting revenge evil?
    Is attempting to pull a country out of entrenched poverty by totalitarian means evil?
    Is believing in something so fervently that you are prepared to insult another’s point of view or get angry and vitriolic or even be prepared to fight or kill for your ideals evil?
    Or what about killing people who are despotic, selfish and brutal themselves?

    No one thinks of themselves as evil. And the more we believe ourselves right and the other guy to blame for all that fails us, the more we must beware of our propensity for harm.

    This does not mean we should not seek to improve our lives or those of our fellow men or that we should not defend ourself from those who would harm or enslave us. It does mean however that if we are ever to live peacefully together we must face our own shortcomings daily and attempt to understand each others point of view. There are so many angry voices here and all have very real reasons for feeling the way they do. Count your blessings and try and be brave when looking in the mirror. Brave enough to see the truth of where you could do better, and where you have failed. Then with a clean heart you might more easily understand the next guys story and pain and actually listen instead of reacting and continuing your own shame.

    We all cast a shadow when we attempt to look only at the light. Life has many shaded and grey areas and much color and an abundance hides in those if we only allow our eyes to adjust and stop looking for the perfect answers or the only right and just way.
    Men and women of all races value kindness in those around them more highly than any other attribute. I don’t care if you are right, but I care greatly if you are kind.

    Take Care.

  • Mark

    545. karismac : “…No one thinks of themselves as evil…”

    Speak for yourself there buddy :|

  • karismac

    Oh and Wayne1770,

    You lost me when you began to speak of your desire for revenge.

    If China in it’s immanent rise to power seeks revenge and glory it will not achieve greatness but become just another failed empire like all those before it.

    Rulers are judged by how able they were to bring peace and prosperity to their country not by their attempts to bring glory to themselves. Both the means and the end will be weighed.

  • Wayne1770

    “I am hard pressed remembering a period in history in which killing millions of your own citizens was considered acceptable however.”

    Where are these untold millions? You are just making it up.

    Of course there was great brutality – about 3 or 4 million landlords, bandits and other undesirable elements were eliminated to consolidate power. Many of these killings were carried out to assuage public anger over past wrongs and oppression.

    The Chinese revolution on a proportional basis was no more bloody than the French or American. So judge Mao by the environment he operated under and also the magnitude of change he wanted to bring to China. If you do this he does not come out looking too badly – just like if you judge Washington in accordance to the standards of his time.

  • Wayne1770

    Furthermore Mark – it is indisputable that Mao united a fractured China, built up her army, gave her nuclear weapons with which to defend herself, and lay the groundwork for China’s economic and military rise – after a century of national humiliation at the hands of eight Western powers and Japan.

    Whether the means to achieve this were too costly or not – that is an issue for the Chinese people to ultimately pass judgement upon – not for some ignorant Westerner bitter that it is now the US who must go to China begging and crawling for help to save its economy

  • Wayne1770

    I’m interested in this perverse Western mindset – why the hatred against Mao. One can understand the Jews hating Hitler or the Irish hating the English.

    But Mao never did anything to the West (apart from kick them out of China). If Mao’s purported victims were Chinese, is it not then the business of the Chinese people to say whether he was a good guy or a bad guy.

    And if they decide that he is on the balance a good guy – why does that cause people like Mark and Carl and Randall to go into an apoplectic rage?

    The answer is obvious – they know that Mao made China a country willing to defend and stick up for herself against Western aggression. That is what gets up the nose of these bitter, racist scum.

  • Mark

    Wayne, it’s rather evident that you are a troll hiding behind above average rhetoric. It’s a shame that someone so good with words can be so foolish and blind. But that’s the way it goes. Randall and Carl and I would probably do best just ignoring you – well Carl and I anyways – because I don’t see much happening here with an ignorant “Easterner” who accuses the West of being corrupted and “evil”, and yet forgets the Boxer Rebellion – how would China have gone without us there buddy? How about Australia’s trade with China? Where would your resource poor country be without that?

    Start thinking before you comment, and maybe it will be worth arguing with you. Or else I am, myself, finished with you.

  • Wayne1770

    Mark: your ignorance is so utterly transparent. The Boxers, Yi He Tuan (Society of Righteous Fists), while misused, deluded and obscurantist, were still in the end fighting against imperialist aggression against China. They are revered in China today.

    You obviously know nothing of the Opium Wars, the burning of the Summer Palace, the Anglo-French invasions and the Russo-Japanese conflict – fought over Chinese territory.
    And you do not know that that German possessions in China. Do your homework you first – firing from the hip like you do just shows you up to be a jackass.

    As for Australian trade with China – hey its also benefitted Australia mightily. All the world now is scrambling to trade with China. Australia has had a few good years – thanks to China trade. If China consumption decreases – that won’t be good for Australia.

    And by the way we like Kevin Rudd, the only Western leader I believe who is fluent in Mandarin, and has a deep understanding and appreciation of Chinese culture and history – he would most likely agree with most of the things I have said here – even if not openly.

  • Mark

    552. Wayne1770 : ROFLMFAO! I swear to the anti-trolling god that this is the last one, but I just had to reply to thet Australian thing. We can trade with Japan if we want, you’re in a lot more trouble if we stop the coal and iron than we are. Sorry pal, you don’t know economics so don’t even try there.

    I see what your problem is though, you’re not pro-Chinese per se, you’re pro-Commie and anti-Imperialist.

    The only reason that China was fractured so badly that Mao needed to unite it was because of his stupid party in the first place, genius. Don’t tell me to do my homework when your’s is also sadly lacking.

    You want China to get “revenge”, that’s evident. You’re a troll, that is even more evident. I’m weak, that’s almost as evident. I’m trying to stop, bye.

  • Wayne1770

    “We can trade with Japan if we want, you’re in a lot more trouble if we stop the coal and iron than we are. Sorry pal, you don’t know economics so don’t even try there.”

    China is now Australia’s biggest trading partner. Japan I believe comes number 2. So losing China would be a big blow to your economy. But that is not going to happen because Australia would not want to shoot itself in the foot. When China slows, so will Australia.
    If Australia does not want to trade – no big deal – we almost have all of Africa now.

    In any case Australia counts for nothing on the world stage. We have America by the balls as we own trillions of their debt. That is why Clinton crawled on all fours a couple of months ago when she met President Hu and Premier Wen.

    “The only reason that China was fractured so badly that Mao needed to unite it was because of his stupid party in the first place, genius.”

    You are just one stupid ignorant fool – heard of the Northern expedition, the Xian incident, the Japanese invasion, the warlords Tang Shengzhi in Hunan, Chiang Kuang-Nai in Fujian, Sheng Shicai of Xinjiang, Long Yun of Yunnan, Wang Jialie of Guizhou, Liu Xiang and Liu Wenhui of the Sichuan Clique, Han Fuqu of Shandong, Bie Tingfang (???) of Henan, the Ma Clique of Ma Bufang and his family in Qinghai, Ma Hongkui in Ningxia, and Ma Zhongyin in Gansu, Chen Jitang and his Cantonese Clique, Lu Diping (???) of Jiangxi and Jing Yuexiu (???) of Shaanxi.

    China would be like Somalia is today if not for the greatest man of the 20th century – Chairman Mao.

  • Carl

    As said by Mark; You want China to get “revenge”, that’s evident.

    I also thoroughly believe this. Although, this is getting childish. I will marry a Chinese woman in the near future and will miss this country very much when i leave it, as i have in the past. I love China but i despise Mao.

    How in the world can you call someone racist scum when you have no idea who that person is?

    Dare i say quit whilst you are ahead/behind Wayne. It doesn’t really matter in the end i guess, you seem to be a victim of the personality cult of Mao.

  • Wayne1770

    Carl: you will marry a Chinese woman?

    Most obviously it is because you are so undesirabel you cannot get a woman of your own race. That is the case in 99 out of 100 of these sorts of marriages.

    The man marries because his own woman find him repulsive – the woman marries for the passport.

    And yes, I do want revenge. I want China restored to her former glory – and much more. This is the whole aim of the Chinese communist movement ever since it was established. Chinese and China have been underperforming for several centuries. We must get back to the top.

    I want my people to do to your people what your people have subjected my people to these past 200 years.

    As the highest IQ people in the world , we will certainly wipe the floor with everyone else when we get our act together.

  • Wayne1770

    and what’s more Carl – your mongrelized offspring will not be Chinese – neither will they be white. Neither of West nor East, they will hate you for bringing them into a world where they can never find a place and call it home.

    Such are the wages of race-mixing.

  • Mom424

    Yeah Wayne 1770! – showing us exactly what racial purity gets you. How many successive generations of white-trash trailer park did it take to get you?

  • I must say Wayne1770 – your comment is repulsive. And for the record – Maoism isn’t going to restore your former glory – that all existed under imperialism if you recall. From the way you talk you are clearly not from the Chinese upper class stock so you ought to be careful what you wish for or your own children might end up as Eunuchs in the Royal Court.

  • oouchan

    Wayne1770: Just wow. How awful it must be to live in your world. To not see others in a better light. We need to make this a better place, not just for one kind but all kinds. To put it plainly, I like to use all the colors in my crayon box. Too bad that you only like one.

    “I want my people to do to your people what your people have subjected my people to these past 200 years.”

    I come from a family of gypsys. We have been thrown out of every place we go just because of who we are. I know how you feel, but I do not *ever* think the way you do.

  • Wayne1770

    And for the record – Maoism isn’t going to restore your former glory – that all existed under imperialism if you recall

    Another ignoramus. It was Mao who kicked out the imperialists – British, American, Japanese – he shelled the HMS Amethyst as it was cruising up and down the Yangtze in 1949. The British fled with their legs between their tail.
    We then fought the greatest superpower in the world, the US, to a standstill in Korea.

    As for Maoism – no the social and economic ideology of Maoism is dated – but Mao laid the foundations of a nuclear armed united and indepedent China, that is the prerequisite for superpower status. So while Maoism is dated, Chairman Mao will never be.

    Chinese with the high average East Asian IQ (104 to 107) compared to the white European IQ (92 to 100), will upon eschewing all forms of religion and superstitions (helped along by communist dialectics), will be the greatest power in the world.

    Note that the higher average IQ also holds most significance with respect to the proportion of the population with IQs over 110, 120 and the genius level of 140 – just get a normal distribution table yourselves and check it out.

    So our rise is unstoppable. But the West need not fear us – only those vicious anti-China vermin like Carl and Randall and Mark.

    Of course Chinese-White hybrids will have a difficult time of it – their loyalty to either of their halves will always be suspect. And those suspected of disloyalty in times of crises…….

  • karismac

    IQ has been debunked entirely in all research predicting success in life.

    Being able to regulate your emotions and cool off quickly when angered is much more accurate in predicting success in all areas. Hot heads do not fare well in life. They live in worse houses, make less money, their children go to worse schools and have a much higher rate of suicide and divorce.

    While it is important to have an IQ over 115 to do some of the more difficult jobs around that is it. Over 115 is smart enough and other ‘softer’ people skills become more important in predicting who will rise to the top than IQ. I know this first hand because my IQ is 143 and that has not ensured my success in life. It has also taken an enormous amount of hard work. I have probably even had to work harder than some people less intelligent than me as people skills came harder for me as they do for many highly intelligent people.

    While we continue to argue over ideologies and beliefs and seek revenge for the wrongs inflicted on us in the past I repeat that the human race as a whole value kindness in each other above all other attributes. Ruthless dictators may hold sway for a time but they are invariably betrayed by those closest to them. As consumption slows in the current economic climate I would not rule out India as a contender for the crown you so cherish Wayne. You can laugh at me all you want but their efforts in the IT and service sector, their humility and yes kindness will be valued more and more highly as people run out of space and money to buy any more manufactured Chinese junk.

    I am sure you will tell me how stupid I am and how little I know, but hey it is interesting to hear other peoples views isn’t it? I hope that sometime and somewhere you get to have some fun with someone (-:

    Take it Easy and remember to breath.

  • wayne1770

    Karismac: Stephen Hawking said something along the lines “people who boast about their IQ are losers.” So what does that make you?

    Discussing group differences – that is another story. It is true about IQs over 115 being able to pretty much do about anything. But Chinese have many more of these people than whites, and much more than Indians (average IQ 85).

    So in having a significantly higher number of people in the >115 range that will ensure a massive advantage in terms of human capital for CHina, over India, and all Western countries.

    As far as manufactured Chinese ‘junk’ goes – as long as people consider they are getting value for money – and most are – then it is not junk. Quality is simply a measure of how well client expectations are met. If you buy a $10 screwdriver, it will not last as long as a $50 screwdriver – but that is to be expected – people will buy with that in mind.

    And in any case CHinese manufactures are improving day by day. There was a time when Japanese manufactures were considered junk, same with Taiwanese and Korean – yet these places have good reputations in respect of quality now.

    Karismac, as for your long winded moralizing – what we Chinese know is that America, and Western Europe built themselves up on slavery, colonial plunder, and genocide.They have done pretty well for themselves. If we do only half of what they did we shall also.

  • oouchan

    563. wayne1770: You have stated thus: “Karismac: Stephen Hawking said something along the lines “people who boast about their IQ are losers.” So what does that make you?”

    If you point that out about others, but yet boast about the Chinese IQ levels…didn’t you just insult them and yourself? How rude.

    Those that know me, know that I do not advocate that America is the best. I never will. However, I will not say another country is better…until I know for sure. I do know that each country has their own “skeltons in the closet” so please….do not think just one country is the best of them all. So far, I don’t see any country coming out the leader.

  • karismac

    Thanks oouchan, It was rude of him wasn’t it (LOL) and if he had read my post he would see that I was not boasting but pointing out the defeciencies of a high IQ . My IQ is what it is and certainly not what I am most proud of about myself (-:

    Have a look at this …

    I just watched it and it is amazing!

    By the way Wayne I don’t mind you think that I was moralising, you could use a few morals yourself! But I was actually stating very well documented research over many many years. IQ much to many scholars disappointment has not shown itself a predicator for success in any area of achievement. The Chinese are extremely hard workers however and do put in the hours of practice required to master anything they set their mind to and I very much admire that. My family are very close friends with a Chinese man who completed his MBA while living with our family for 2 years recently. I admire the Chinese and am glad that they are all not as emotionally immature as you!

    Take Care …

  • Wayne1770

    oouchan: you are an idiot. There is a difference between boasting of ones individual score and discussing in a rational way the differences between groups and the impact that these differences have on group, racial and national achievement.

  • Maggot

    563 wayne1770: And in any case CHinese manufactures are improving day by day.

    By dreaming up new ways to endanger consumers?

  • oouchan

    565. karismac: I love music….I cannot tell you how wonderful that music video was. I have tears from it. It was so amazing. Thank you for that. :D

    I can only hope that we can get through to people like wayne. It’s sad that he only knows hate. How can you be a good father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter…human and hate like that? Truly…that is what we need to work on, more than anything.

    566. Wayne1770: You failed miserably to make the distinction. You only boasted so that is an epic fail on your part. Also, I didn’t call you names…until now. You are a troll. You spill hate…that is the only thing you know how to do. So…kindly piss off.

  • wayne1770

    Oouchan – you are an imbecile. I mentioned Chinese levels to show that China has more intellectual grunt, on a proportional and absolute basis, than any Western nation. And that this will mean China is on the way to true superpower status.

    That is a statement of fact – not boasting.

    And that statement is easily verifiable – unlike the score Karismac assigns to himself.

    And oouchan – if you are Chinese you are a traitor. You and your entire family are

  • wayne1770

    …sewer rats.

  • karismac

    And the problem with manufacture currently is not quality but over supply. There is too much of everything (except food and oil) and this is why the manufacturing sector will now slow for a long time. It is a big problem too. How to stimulate growth when China has made one of everything for every man woman child and pet on the planet times three and they are all piled up in bargain bins selling for fifty cents each! It would be funny if it were not so tragic …. Just the kind of mistake Mao would have made.

    And as for IQ – isn’t it nice that it is not IQ (something we are born with and cannot change) that predicates success in life? I mean Wayne you could choose to learn how to calm down and override your initial angry responses with a secondary learned response of calm (this is called scaffolding) and improve your position in life. And anyone can put in the necessary 10 000 hours to become a master of whatever they wish, if they have patience enough years left in their life and enough money to get by while they do all that practice.

    The advantage the Chinese have is the ability to work hard. It comes apparently from rice being a much more labour intensive crop to grow than most others. This has bred a very resiliant determination and work ethic into the Chinese. Much to admire (-;

  • karismac

    Hi Wayne,

    FYI I am a herself not himself (-:

    Have a great day!!!

    PS. I am glad that you liked the song Oochan – isn’t it just incredible how there can be so much love and so much hate in the world. What an incredible place this is.

  • oouchan

    572. karismac: I agree. Too much hate going on around here. What wayne fails to realize is he’s still boasting. Oh well, guess they didn’t teach that to him in school! I’m a “her” too, by the way.
    And just for wayne…read my post. I am an Ukrainian gypsy…and proud of it.

  • wayne1770

    “How to stimulate growth when China has made one of everything for every man woman child and pet on the planet times three and they are all piled up in bargain bins selling for fifty cents each! It would be funny if it were not so tragic …. Just the kind of mistake Mao would have made.”

    Karismac: another imbecilic statement. If there was such an oversupply China’s economy would not have averaged 8 or 9 percent annual growth over recent years – if things are selling and the economy is growing – that is what counts you stupid ho.

  • karismac

    Just the charmer aren’t you Wayne? That is not a very Chinese name by the way.
    Wayne? Oh well you take care now won’t you … (-:

  • oouchan

    karismac, dear….you really shouldn’t feed the troll. It only encourages him. Dont’ worry…I made the same mistake in my last post and I was trying not to. Oh well.
    If we ignore him he should go away. :D

  • Randall


    I see now. What you are, in fact, is simply a despicable human being… the kind who not only buys into the self-deluding propaganda of his own totalitarian regime, but actually BOOSTS for it and goes around berating others about it.

    The latter day equivalent of a deluded Hitler Youth, or an SS officer. Or a highly indoctrinated and rabid agent for Comintern.

    This little tidbit particularly caught my eye:

    “See Randall, I am Chinese – I don’t foist my opinions onto other people and try and tell them how to run their own affairs.”

    HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Omigod, Wayne, tell us all another one!! IMMEDIATELY when someone–ANYONE–gets self-righteous like that, as you just did—it’s their ass. It’s a dead giveaway that they are a self-deluded tool who has bought into everything ever crammed down their throat.

    Chinese don’t “try to tell others how to run their affairs”? I want to laugh again, but I’ll contain myself.

    I hardly need to point out, Wayne, that the Tibetans would by NO means agree with you on that whacky little claim of yours. NEITHER would the people living in Taiwan.

    The fact is WE ALL try to tell others how to live and conduct themselves. Every human being on earth is guilty of this—we all think we have the right to give our opinion of how we think our neighbors should conduct themselves or handle their business. It’s good manners to contain oneself, and most of us usually do. But as far as nations go, China is NO BETTER at this than any other country on earth, and a DAMN SITE worse than some. The example of Tibet ALONE is enough to prove that.

    All this is so silly, Wayne. The fact is that Westerners—Americans anyway, I shouldn’t speak for anyone else—LIKE the Chinese immensely. I know I do. Many of us are fascinated with China and admire it. In fact, not to sound nasty about it, but I like the Chinese a good deal more than the Japanese. I’ve had many a Chinese student and they’ve all been a delight–fun, curious, nice, open, friendly. True, I myself have NOT been to China, but I hope to go someday, very much. I’ve had close friends who’ve spent a good deal of time there. I deeply love the ancient culture of China and have a heartfelt admiration for it.

    You, however, are an example of a Chinese anomaly that I hope never to meet or encounter again. The poisonous bullshit you’ve been spouting on this thread has almost robbed me of some of my hope for my fellow man—and I’m sick to death of running into disgusting jackasses of your ilk on here, regardless of race, creed, color or nationality.

    So this bullshit you’re peddling about “Western hatred” of China is just nonsense, Wayne. You’re a dupe, pure and simple–and a clumsy one besides.

    I have one reason and one reason only for hating your beloved chairman Mao: because he was a totalitarian, murdering monster, who just like the monstrous and horribly evil Stalin, not only oppressed, imprisoned, and tortured his own people, but caused the deaths of them in the millions. All for his own egomaniacal philosophies, and those of his twisted party.

    My reason for hating Mao and people like him is because I am a believer in DEMOCRACY, Wayne—which you are not, clearly. I believe in the dignity of the individual and his or her right to think for himself or herself, to manage their own lives and future…. to be able to read what they wish, write what they wish, worship as they wish, etc. WITHOUT some government telling them that they cannot do these things, or telling them what their limits are. And punishing them horribly if they disobey.

    TODAY’S China is, yes, a much more open society than it used to be. I applaud that. I believe that China will inevitably move more and more towards greater opennness and freedom for its people. But let’s not lie about it and claim that it isn’t STILL an authoritarian, dictatorial state in MANY ways. It’s by NO MEANS North Korea, of course. Not by a long shot. But it’s far from a free and democratic society, just yet. Though yes, it’s going there, quite obviously. And then, god willing, disgusting creeps like you will fade into a forgotten mist of the past where you belong.

    NOR does it bother me that China is growing in status and strength. It’s only sensible and reasonable that China has a power status in the world, given its position, size, prestige, and importance throughout human history. And knowing what we know of China, I trust a powerful China much more than a powerful Russia—which was always a paranoid, expansionist and more rigid state.

    But let’s also not kid ourselves—China is by no means a superpower yet. Nor is it likely to be. It’s a great power, and may become greater. But a nation of over a billion people ought to have—and almost certainly will have—larger problems to tend to than worrying over building up its “power” status in the world beyond where it really needs to, to function on the world stage.

    As for America now being “at your mercy,” Wayne—try it. The economy of China is as dependent on the US as ours is in debt to yours. A smart businessman never lords it over his best customer. And let’s also not forget that a huge part of the reason why the Chinese economy is so successful now is because your government has artificially managed the value of its currency–as opposed to allowing it to float naturally as most developed nations do.

    “Just like most Americans would now think slavery and extermination of the Native Americans was an acceptable price for providing lebensraum for white people and the benefits of an industrialized society.”

    WRONG Wayne. Most Americans think no such thing. Yes, history is what it is, and can’t be reversed, sadly. And yes, it’s human nature to want to look forward rather than backward. But most Americans are at least uncomfortable with what was done to the native population, if they stop to think about it for a bit… the question is how much they wish to act on that–which for the most part, few do. Like most human beings, most people would rather problems and embarrassments just go away than have to deal with them.

    Your modes of thinking, Wayne, are childish, nationalistic, bigoted, biased, offensive in the extreme and pure party-line. There’s always people like you in the world, sadly. Always. It’s why the Hitlers, Lenins, Stalins, Maos, Pol Pohts, Castros, Pinochets, Duvaliers and their ilk can get away with what they do.

  • Randall


    I just saw this ridiculously offensive and disgusting offering from you:

    “And yes, I do want revenge. I want China restored to her former glory – and much more. This is the whole aim of the Chinese communist movement ever since it was established. Chinese and China have been underperforming for several centuries. We must get back to the top.

    I want my people to do to your people what your people have subjected my people to these past 200 years.”

    Truly, Wayne… you are a sick bastard and I suggest you seek serious psychological help.

    I work at a university, with several Chinese colleagues. I have several Chinese students that I know and work with. Not one of them thinks as you do. Because they are normal human beings who have better things to do with their lives and time than hate others and wish for some kind of sick “revenge.”

    China back to its former, ancient glory? And revenge against the West? That kind of victimization routine doesn’t make greatness or success, Wayne. Rather, it is PRECISELY the kind of thing we heard from Hitler and the Nazis—a desire for a return to the “glory days” of German/Aryan supremacy (days which in fact never existed) and for “revenge” on the Jews and other western nations that “held the Germans back.”

    I’m sickened by just reading your constant stream of insane vitriol… I’ve never felt so low after listening to a fellow human being speak… perhaps I’ve been too insulated…

    I want to point out how the United States came to your country’s aid when it and your people were being raped and brutalized and tortured by the Japanese… how even before we entered into WWII, we were repeatedly protesting to Japan and insisting that they get out of China. And in fact, it was that stance, on behalf of China, which was the one of the chief sticking points between the US and Japan, which we would not let up on—that finally made the Japanese realize that they could only have a hope of gaining their ends through attacking the United States. It would have been easier for the US to deal with Germany unhampered and unencumbered by an additional war in the Pacific… and the US could have easily let Japan have its way in China and by that means fostered peace with Japan until we could deal with Hitler—but no–we DID stand up for China and never faltered from that stand. And that, in part, brought us attack and a two-front war to deal with.

    But no doubt you’d turn all this around and insist it was merely imperialism of one kind traded for another. The childish mind always obsessed with seeing itself as the victim of others–it doesn’t matter who it is, as long as they feel victimized by SOMEONE–so they don’t have to take responsiblity for themselves… such a mind will always see itself as pure and unblemished, and all others as worthy only of hatred and disdain.

    The only thing I can feel heartened by is that I’ve known a great many Chinese people, and thankfully NONE of them were miserable bastards like you, Wayne. But the fact that there ARE people like you in the world saddens me to no end, all the same.

    Go away and mire yourself in your filthy illusions and hatreds and fantasies of revenge and grandeur. I just hope someday that you come to the realization that you share this world, this existence, with other human beings—not just “nationalities” and “races” to hate and want vengeance against.

  • oouchan

    Randall: That was wonderful! Your posts were brilliant!

  • Wayne1770

    Randall – what a load of drivel. All based on absolute nothing but bullshit. You provide no facts. Only rhetoric. If I was your exam marker I would give you an E.

    However since you have obviously gone to great effort to respond to me, and you are obviously in an emotionally fraught state – I will do you the courtesy of responding to several of your points.

    “Chinese don’t “try to tell others how to run their affairs”?”

    Correct. China does not impose her ideological beliefs on other countries, nor her social system. This is an obvious fact. China does conducts diplomatic relations and business with other countries with virtually no pre-conditions in respect of so-called ‘human rights’ or ‘democracy.’ You and everyone else here know which countries are guilty of such things Randall.

    That is why more and more third world countries are now looking to China as an alternative model for development. We do not treat other people like children. The attitude of the Chinese is thus completely different from those whites like big white ‘bwana’ Randall.

    Most importantly the Chinese do not invade other peoples lands. There is no territory which China currently holds or claims which is considered disputed land by the UN, or indeed any other sovereign state.

    You mention, predictably, Tibet and Taiwan:

    “I hardly need to point out, Wayne, that the Tibetans would by NO means agree with you on that whacky little claim of yours. NEITHER would the people living in Taiwan”

    Not one Western nation challenges the fact that Tibet is part of China (every single Western nation recognizes that Taiwan is part of China). In fact the US recognized Tibet as part of China well before the onset of communist rule.

    Britain last year of its own accord corrected the historical anomaly of recognizing only Chinese ‘suzerainty’ over Tibet, to full recognition of Chinese sovereignty.

    The article clearly acknowledges that Tibet’s status as part of China is indisputable. This is what YOU people say, – don’t take my word for it – ask Chris Patten, Gordon Brown, Kevin Rudd, Sarkozy, and Obama.

    As for Taiwan, Taiwan is also indisputably a part of China, -that is why they call themselves ‘Republic of China.’ And every single Western nation recognizes Taiwan as part of China – they all adhere to the ‘One China’ policy. Taiwan is part of China in exactly the same way that both South Korea and North Korea each are part of Korea. Don’t believe me? Check out your own US government position on this.

    Saying that China bosses Tibet or Taiwan is as ridiculous as saying Britain bosses around Liverpool, or America bosses around California.

    So sorry Randall, you get an ‘A’ for rhetorical style – ‘E’ for complete ignorance of the facts. Weighting for style is only 5% – so you still get an E grade overall.

    But happily for you I will award you an A+ for hypocrisy – as it is your own country, the US, which only six years ago invaded the sovereign state of Iraq just and continues to occupy that country today. And the civilian death count has been massive – many times more than those resulting from the police action in Tibet last year.

    Randall score card so far:

    Rhetoric: A
    Substance: E
    Hypocrisy (does not count towards final grade): A+

    Overall: E (fail grade)

  • Wayne1770

    “I work at a university, with several Chinese colleagues. I have several Chinese students that I know and work with. Not one of them thinks as you do.”

    Why not try saying to them that Tibet should be independant, and Taiwan is not part of China.

    Reaction would probably be similar to this:

    The attitude of all Chinese (except those few traitors and running dogs) regarding Tibet:

    or insult Mao:

    Most people are nice Randall. Does not mean they can’t get passionate about things that matter.

    You obviously have low EQ as well as IQ.

  • Wayne1770

    “TODAY’S China is, yes, a much more open society than it used to be. I applaud that. I believe that China will inevitably move more and more towards greater opennness and freedom for its people.”

    Typical patronizing drivel. The children (the Chinese) get a pat on the head from big bwana headmaster (the white man Randall) for improved performance. But more effort required.

    Thank you Bwana Randall. But we Chinese will run our affairs the way WE see fit. We do not need input from ignorant dorks like yourself.

  • Wayne1770

    “I want to point out how the United States came to your country’s aid when it and your people were being raped and brutalized and tortured by the Japanese… how even before we entered into WWII, we were repeatedly protesting to Japan and insisting that they get out of China.”

    You are a retard. Roosevelt was desperate to override the isolationist lobby in America and go to the aid of fellow Anglo-Saxons England in the war against Germany. So he antagonized the Japanese (he knew of Pearl Harbor beforehand) – not for China’s sake, but for England’s sake. He knew he needed a sufficient casus belli and with Pearl Harbor he got it – war with Japan meant war with Germany (Germany declared war on the US only a few days after Pearl Harbor). This point of view is becoming more and more accepted among mainstream historians. Refer book by John Toland.

    As for China v Japan, Japan was commiting aggression against China for almost the entire half century period before WWII. China lost millions of men in battle against Japan – yet Randall thinks that because America took a few token islands and dropped an atomic bomb (that was not necessary to end the war anyway), Chinese should thank America for saving them from fascism.

    America was an ally of Japan during the suppression of the YiHeTuan, America actually supported handing German possessions in China over to Japan as reward for Japan being on the side of the Allies in WWI, and America even blocked a racial equality proposal at the Paris Peace Conference (the Japanese made this proposal with their own interests in mind of course)

    “But no doubt you’d turn all this around and insist it was merely imperialism of one kind traded for another.”

    In fact this viewpoint was not unusual (even if incorrect). From Sukarno of Indonesia, Bose of India, and even Aung Sang (the father of her now turncoat traitoress daughter Suuy Qi) held to such a view. And there was some justification for this – Dutch rule in Indonesia was no bettern than Japanese, and massacres and by the British were commonplace in Burma during the early twentieth century.

    And American atrocities in the 1900s in the Phillipines make the SS in Eastern Europe look like choir boys. The US killed about a million filipinos (out of 8 or 9 million) in just three years. Read more here:

  • Wayne1770

    “I have one reason and one reason only for hating your beloved chairman Mao: because he was a totalitarian, murdering monster, who just like the monstrous and horribly evil Stalin, not only oppressed, imprisoned, and tortured his own people, but caused the deaths of them in the millions.”

    Again you offer no factual evidence to back this up. China’s population was 450million in 1949. By the time of Mao’s death in 1976, it was 800million. And life expectancy had increased from 35 in 1949 to 68 in 1976.
    China had the disaster of the Great Leap Forward. But ‘democratic’ India has greater poverty overall and has ‘killed’ more people over a longer period of time, than even claimed by the Chinese communists worst detractors.

    And by the way, the attributing of millions of deaths to Stalin, is just bs western propaganda. Randall – educate yourself

    It is the Western colonialists, all ‘democracies’, by the way, in the twentieth century alone who killed upwards of 50million people – all from malign policies, not [email protected]#$ ups.

    Do yourself a favor and find out more about the Belgian genocide in the Congo.

    Randall – you are an ignorant, sack of shit – deluded by your own overweening sense of righteousness.

  • Wayne1770

    Wayne said: ” “Just like most Americans would now think slavery and extermination of the Native Americans was an acceptable price for providing lebensraum for white people and the benefits of an industrialized society.”

    Randall responded: WRONG Wayne. Most Americans think no such thing. Yes, history is what it is, and can’t be reversed, sadly.”

    Randall: you are utterly wrong here.

    Most Americans undoubtedly DO think that the American historical narrative as a whole is a noble one – notwithstanding slavery and genocide. If they did not there would not be Americans like you so consumed by your own sense of righteousness.

    As you say some they may be discomforted by some aspects of past US behaviour – but that, to them is not enough to invalidate thir conviction that the US is a historically legitimate and indeed uniquely noble-minded polity. And implicit in this viewpoint is the acceptance of slavery and genocide as acceptable collateral damage in the creation of the US.

    Likewise mistakes made by the Chinese communist party in the early years, do not invalidate their overall struggle to unite and restore China to a status commensurate with her history and civilization. Recognizing Mao as a founder of our modern nation does not make one a Maoist – anymore than admiration for Washington makes one pro-slavery, or admiration for Woodrow Wilson a white supremacist.

    The campaign by Westerners to attack Chinese history and her icons is nothing less than an attack on the national confidence of the Chinese people. This is because they fear a resurgent and rising China. And why do they fear China? Because China is non-white.

  • Wayne1770

    All this is so silly, Wayne. The fact is that Westerners—Americans anyway, I shouldn’t speak for anyone else—LIKE the Chinese immensely. I know I do

    Perhaps because you like Chinese food, and also Chinese women (because you are too unattractive to score with your own race – and because there are unfortunately many sell-out Asian hos).

    So I guess you have good reason to like the Chinese immensely.

  • Carl

    Well your links have been blocked by my Chinese server Wayne. If you knew anything about your oh so beloved homeland you would know that has been blocked for well over a month now, but you seem to be able to use it fine you sack of brainwashed shit. I have lived in China for one year now and I put forward i can speak more Chinese than you. Can you even read Chinese you coward prick?

    In fact Youtube was banned because of a Tibet issue. But hey your government.. well hang on.. its not really your government now. So you have moved abroad because your parents did not like the government or what? Maybe they could have moved over to Hong Kong where its more free.. or even Taiwan. Please inform us you lying bitch.

    It was only one video which has caused all this stir and the video was of police officials beating Tibetans. The one video could have been banned but the government have opted for the safe part and blocked the entire site. Now this is quite noticeable, but not so for most Chinese, As with the censoring of HK channels here on the mainland, Chinese people don’t really tend to care about it because they have dealing with this kind of information covering sheath for decades. As a westerner its a pain in the ass having to deal with this bullshit censorship.

    In any case Wayne most people have taken their effort out of trying to convince you of anything, especially things about China. But they have all been wasting their time on a little fucking rat like yourself who’s Chinese blood is very questionable. It seems your so called foes actually have nothing against Chinese at all, but more against the government. So stop putting that poisonous crap in our mouths. You don’t care for any people so why you defend any? Especially your SO CALLED people. Why don’t you come over to China and see what its like here mate?

    Quote Wayne1770: ‘and what’s more Carl – your mongrelized offspring will not be Chinese – neither will they be white. Neither of West nor East, they will hate you for bringing them into a world where they can never find a place and call it home.’

    If my child’s skin be yellow or white it is not problem to me. My child will grow up in a loving environment. As for your child regardless of what race/colour, i will feel sorry for it. Entertaining the thought of you even caring for a child makes uneasy. I’m sure your small fists can talk as well as your typing fingers, but only to the people that are too small to fight back. That is the kind of person you are Wayne. Absolute pure swine.

  • karismac

    The saddest part of all of this for me is how quickly you all jump to calling names?

    I have found everyone’s points interesting and this discussion very educational but as soon as you let yourselves get angry and start insulting each other and calling each other names you completely lose all credibility. Do you realise that? Did anyone read my post about the ability to override your anger and calm down quickly being the most accurate indicator for success in life? No one listens to people who cannot control themselves enough to resist calling each other names like children. That is a fact.

    I think that citizens of the US should take note of what Wayne says about other countries being angered at the US and their hypocrisy on human rights issues and their moralising to the rest of the world. The strength and depth of his anger should be some small warning that perhaps the world sees the US differently than you may realise. I also do not believe that the US ever protected anyone for anything but for their own interests, but that doesn’t mean that I agree with you Wayne, I find your slant on history fascinating but your immaturity disappointing in the extreme. You use the term EQ as if you know what it means, but show no signs of any attempt to develop this in yourself. Two wrongs don’t make anything right. You seem to want to imitate exactly what you criticise about England and the USA .

    True power is power over yourself. A powerful person does not let their fears or temper (or addictions) rule them. A powerful person has the sense to act from their higher judgement and not retaliate in anger simply because they feel challenged or slighted. I am not saying I have any great grasp on this, but it is something that I work on. I enjoy being treated with respect (as do most people) and so why should I so senselessly let my self down if I can work on something really so easy to control? It is certainly easier than losing weight or expecting a leopard to change its spots by arguing with it? Is it really that hard to shut your mouth and stop when you realise you are losing self control and hence all credibility at the same time?

    Because that is it – losing control of yourselves in such embarrassing outbursts takes all credibility away from what you want to explain. Just as there can be no true justice if the victim in retaliation stoops to the same level as the one who first committed the crime. If you despise someone do better than them, not the same!

    Or perhaps you don’t want anyone to believe you but instead to intimidate and frighten people? That is pretty stupid on an anonymous forum isn’t it? And if that is so who else do you vent on like that in your life? the picture of someone intelligent and respected certainly begins to fade …

    And I am not just talking to Wayne …

    I used to lose my temper and call people names too. I looked at that behaviour eventually (when it was pointed out to me how destructive to myself this was) and stopped. I dare whoever is reading this. Do yourself the biggest favour you ever will in your life and get control of your anger too. It might make you feel powerful but in reality it takes all of your power away.

    So lets see who has grit here? Attack me if you will and call me any name you wish but I will NOT stoop to doing the same!

  • kimcoo

    Yes yes this is so true karismac! I first found this site because I once lived with a husband who I thought was evil, he would criticise and insult us (his family) and treat us unfairly in every conceivable way.

    It was not until I learned the same advice you give here and stopped reacting in anger to what he did that I was able to gain enough respect from the people around me to help him and bring about change.

    My husband had narcissistic personality disorder and you can read our story here;

    When I stopped losing my temper and I stopped calling him names etc. was when my life completely changed. Everything is different now. I know Daniel Goleman’s work that you are quoting here and I agree completely with what you say.

  • Wayne1770

    Dear Carl,

    I see must have speared you with a few home truths. Let me guess. You are an ugly sack of faeces who has always felt shy around white women. The only looks you get from white women are ones of nausea.

    You are mediocre in talents – thus you have no real trade or profession. Your only skill is to be able to speak American accented English.

    You are, however, clever enough to understand that there is a market for native speakers of English in China, and also there is also a small, but significant minority of women there who lick your smelly balls for an American passport.

    But most importantly because of the vast gap in cultural understanding between Chinese and Americans – virtually no one in China will be able to discern you for the loser you are. Thus, in a sense, you can lose yourself, and reinvent yourself in China – and thus come across as some sort of bullshit lothario.

    But in the end buddy, a loser is a loser is a loser. And one can’t go round fooling oneself forever. In the back of your mind you know you are a useless white maggot – but hey- enjoy the warm hole before the ho realizes what a real dud you are.

    Your ‘mastery’ of the Chinese language is probably limited to ?? but you, at least in front of other Westerners, affect the image of the ‘old China hand’, qualified to pronounce on all matters China, especially political. Your one year in China, and your halting Mandarin (or is it Cantonese – since you know about censorship of HK TV) of course makes you imminently qualified to provide advice to Chinese on how the country should be run.

    You perhaps are bitter that the Chinese have not made you president – after all, because you are a fat white slug, you feel you must be smarter than even President Hu Jintao, a former brilliant engineering student with a photographic memory. And being a white slug of course, in your own white supremacist mind, makes you better than any Chinese man.

    How do I know all of the above? Because I am a Western educated Hong Konger, who currently lives in Causeway Bay, Hong Kong. I see your type all the time, they literally abound in Asia – FILTH – failed in london try Hong Kong.

    I am a structural engineer. I have worked with both expats and locals in large multinational engineering consultancies. I have a terrific understanding of both East and West, a lot better than almost anyone else I know. I see white phoneys like yourself strutting round Wan Chai and Central almost everyday.

    But be aware that although the perception that many Chinese have of Hong Kongers is ‘running dogs’, more and more Hong Kongers (and Asian people in general – even Taiwanese) are coming round to see the wolfish face of the West. A watershed was last year’s Western instigated riots in Tibet. More and more Chinese everywhere now understand that the real agenda of the West is to undermine the gains of the Chinese revolution and turn China into a gigantic version of the Phillipines or Thailand – an Asian paradise for white losers and white pedophiles like yourself (which was what Shanghai use to be).

    But under the communist party, in spite of its many faults, China is making giant strides to restoring her former glory. That is right, that is just – but to scum like Carl that really really pisses you off – soon there will be no more cheap Chinese poo-see.

  • karismac

    Thankyou for being such a fantastic example of my point Wayne!

    So hey everyone! Will we all continue to behave like 5 year olds now and follow Wayne’s excellent example of how to humiliate oneself by boasting and intimidating strangers and calling each other names?

    And sorry Wayne, but what you say about Carl says so much more about yourself than it does about him anyway, perhaps your father was one of the men you describe and your mother a prostitute? Just a guess, but it seems you who has let this debate get too close to the bone and get the better of you? But certainly not from facing any home truths about yourself (LOL) you stoke the fire of your victimhood daily to keep the anger burning don’t you? Catch yourself if you laugh or forget? Because anger makes you feel so glorious and powerful and it is so much easier and you too weak to face your own fear, humiliation, sadness, failure and shame.

    We all make mistakes sometimes Wayne and we all make fools of ourselves sometimes too, it’s part of being human … just take it easy and be yourself and hey really? Try and have a nice day (-:

  • Carl

    I am not American, nor am i a paedophile as you so surely state. Hong Kong is not even China in my eyes. If you were to step over to the side of the road i live on, Guangzhou, then this is a little more like China. People seem respectful to the old here. The young stand and the old sit on public transport in China. I have never seen that in Hong Kong. In Hong Kong on the train i see middle aged men wearing bright colours, Versace shoes and sitting down whilst the old lady next to him stands and stares vaguely out the window.

    Do you feel unfortunate or ripped off that the cult of Mao only landed you with riots and a handful of bombings in HK? Is that why you are such a pissed off person?

    ‘I see must have speared you with a few home truths. Let me guess. You are an ugly sack of faeces who has always felt shy around white women. The only looks you get from white women are ones of nausea.’

    Wow man you really have a delicate relationship with the english language. Does any of this garbage manage to make it from your physical mouth?

    All the best to China. These great strides, whatever they are, are fine by be.

    I goto HK every few months so next time i’ll keep and eye out for the geek spending all his money on Mao paraphernalia at the markets.

    Being himself appears to be the problem.

  • oouchan

    karismac/carl….That last post of waynes was the perfect example of the post karismac wrote. He isn’t going to stop with the name calling. That is all that he can do at this point. Randall and the rest of us showed him up and provided another view. Nothing can be said now. He can only resort to name calling. Our thoughts and facts (no matter how correct they may be) will not get through to such a closed and hateful mind.
    And as for his post….for a second there, I thought he was describing himself. :twisted:

    So now we can play my favorite game – ignore the troll. :D

  • karismac

    I am sorry Ouchan but I do not want to play the name calling and ignoring game,
    there are millions of tortured souls like Wayne in this world, nursing some major shame or humiliation in their life that they cannot face in any way other way than to point blame. He is not the first person like that on this list, if you read from the start there are many here. Only some kind of dialog will ever bring change.

    And while your comment made me laugh Carl, I disagree that his anger and hate is him. Wayne has certainly allowed it to consume him, but in reality it is a defense against some deeper emotion he is trying to avoid and fears facing like fear, humiliation powerlessness or shame. It is being himself that he fears most because someone taught him wrongly that himself was not enough, where in reality it is the true treasure in his life. This is the same for everyone. You are not alone Wayne.

    And Wayne, it would be interesting to hear about how you personally feel abused and mistreated by westerners? And if the story you tell yourself is even true or something you created over time to hide feelings of inadequacy about yourself? Of course you have no reason to trust me and me asking will no doubt make you feel like launching another nasty attack. It seems a knee jerk reaction of yours. Has your temper served you well in your personal life and at work? Is there anyone in your life that can get close enough to you to care?

    Fear and shame do feel terrible, but they will pass quickly if you stop and let them do their work. Were you abused by sexual predators as a child leaving your sexuality twisted and damaged? Did you have a father who had no time or interest in you? Or have you always been a bully to hide your lonliness? Go on and prove my theories wrong Wayne and tell us what nightmare spawned you. I am sure you retell the story to yourself daily. But remember to ask yourself if each and every fact is true. It is OK if you embellished it in your mind in the past. Victimhood is such a glorious feeling, but I bet it has robbed you of everything you ever loved. I dare you to liberate yourself and face the truth, unravel it bit by bit in your mind until Wayne stands trial accused by himself in the true light of day.

    I don’t want to hurt you Wayne, but to help you set yourself free. Seeing Mao vilified in history will not end the terrible pain and hurt inside you. Only facing your own embarrassment and feelings of weakness will set you free from that. Those feelings hurt like hell but they are transformative and they bring peace. If you take the cup and drink deep and resist the temptation of blaming anyone else or making anymore excuses for yourself. Those feelings will burn your old weak and frightened self away. Because if you can face your own worst judgements of yourself in the clear light of day you can face anything. Facing these daily will bring self mastery and self control (true power) and you will wake up to a new life and a new day.

  • oouchan

    594. karismac: I will have to disagree with you there. We already tried to bring him out and around and he resulted in name calling. When we tried again, he did the same. There is no change for this guy. That is what makes him a troll. Someone who spews anger and hate and will not enter into a debate but rather a full blown argument. Its a waste of time.
    As for him being a tortured soul? I don’t think so….not even close. I can’t help someone who refuses to help themselves.

  • wayne1770

    Karismac: I’m a perfectly happy functioning human being.
    I enjoy life. So spare us the psych stuff – go get a certificate in counselling and make some money from it – I won’t be sending you a cheque.

    I love, but I also, as any normal human being should, hate. Hate is a form of love. Hating evil is loving good. And hating vermin like Carl & Randall, scum who want to bring chaos and suffering to the Chinese people, is loving one’s own people.

    And oouchan. I have put down very sound arguments, that are basically irrefutable with carefully documented links, to support my point of view. If you scan the message board quickly you will note that it is both Carl and Randall who were the first to resort to name calling – not me. But perhaps the ability to follow a logically reasoned point of view is simply beyond your limitations.

  • oouchan

    wayne: I can’t believe I am about to address you directly even though I said I wasn’t. Let’s point out what you just said.

    [i]If you scan the message board quickly you will note that it is both Carl and Randall who were the first to resort to name calling – not me.[/i]


    “502. Wayne1770 – Those who say Mao should be on the list are idiots.”

    Carl posted in 535 but didn’t call you any names.

    “536. Wayne1770 – Carl: just shows what a misinformed fool you are.”

    Randall jumps in and calls you names (pointed this out to be fair)

    I jump in along with karismac and you immediately call us names. I didn’t attack you in any way. I do know how to think logically and to follow a point of view, but your rants are those of a fanatic.

    However…you have not yet seen our side. I can see yours quite clearly. I do not live in China and cannot go off of anything other then what I hear from others from there as I don’t follow the news. News stories blow things out of proportion and I don’t like journalists.

    Most of the students that come from china or those that I work with do not like Mao. They are entitled to their opinion just like the rest of us. They don’t have to like anyone just because they are from that country. I am from the Ukraine and I can’t stand Stalin. Glad that ass was first. However…some of my family likes him. I still can’t figure out why.

    You have pride for being who you are…that is fine. But no one has to follow another just because of where they are from. Doesn’t make sense. Can anyone just think for themselves anymore?

  • Carl

    Where exactly are your so called carefully documented links to my supposed kiddy fiddling behavior? Or that i am American? Or that i am ‘an ugly sack of faeces’? Or that Randall is an ignorant, sack of shit? Or that Randall & myself, are scum and want to bring chaos to the Chinese people? Do i need to go on?
    Bring chaos to the Chinese people.. are you fucking serious? I mean, do you fucking listen to anything or just make up stories in your twisted head?

    Unfortunately your links were void in my case, as they are blocked by the ‘Great Firewall of China’. Aren’t you just lucky that you live somewhere that is free enough to let Youtube to freely exist. Oh wait, but you live in China?

    Randall had previously summed up what i think exactly. ‘The poisonous bullshit you’ve been spouting on this thread has almost robbed me of some of my hope for my fellow man.’

    In my 10 years of using the internet i have never encountered a beast as foul as you. You are just a failure pure and simple and you have not done anything to convince anyone of anything on this board except that you yourself are a horrible person.

  • Randall

    It came as no surprise to me that this sick little asshole, Wayne, is not, in fact, TRULY Chinese, but rather is from Hong Kong. It’s an old–very old–phenomenon in regards to radical dogmas—particularly in dealing with communist and fascist dogmas—that it’s OUTSIDERS who are the most rabid about them, and not, for the most part, people living within them or at their heart. Many of the most rabid Nazis–and anti-semites of the day, for instance, were Austrians (including, of course, Hitler himself). Similarly, the most rabid communists and radical leftists who pumped for communism in the 20s and 30s were not Russians, but westerners—and we saw this phenomenon again in the 60s, when being a radical leftist and communist dupe was all the rage–when hippies went around carrying pictures of Lenin, Mao, Che Guavara, Castro, and so on. This even has a parallel WITHIN totalitarian states, where it’s not the cosmopolitan centers that are the lifeblood of the party line and the softheads who believe in it like a fervent religion, but rather the provinces, the rural areas and small towns. Berlin, for example, was never a Nazi stronghold, really, but Bavaria certainly was. And in the early days of the Revolution, it wasn’t St. Petersburg and Moscow that were the real hotbeds of bolshevik furvor, but rather this filtered in through the country areas. And let’s remember that Lenin himself was an outsider, living in Germany in exile all those years prior to the Revolution—where he could develop his little philosophies about the “plight of the workers” when he himself had not the slightes inkling of what life for the workers was really like. And so on.

    I realized several days ago that it was far more likely that Wayne wasn’t REALLY Chinese, and here we find I was right. I’ve known actual citizens of China… people from not just from Beijing but from Tianjin, Guangzhou, and so on. NONE of these people have been the nonsense-spouting dupes that Wayne clearly is, nor do they rabidly and insanely hate the west (or anyone for that matter) as he does. Wayne even sickly “defends” his hate as being natural and good—as being a “kind of love.” Uh huh. Sure, Wayne. But the people I’ve known from China are not party tools or state-maniacs. They’re just ordinary (and exceptionally intelligent) people who are here in the US to work and study, and like anybody else are just nice people who want to do their thing in life and be left alone to do it. Fact is most of us are like that—most people are just nice and want to live life unmolested and unbothered by others. Sadly, we have to share this earth with despicable assholes like Wayne, who ruin it for all of us.

    Clearly we just have to stop even attempting to debate with this monster. Nothing that can ever be raised in terms of scholarly evidence for Mao’s crimes will ever be accepted by Wayne–he’ll continually dismiss them as Western lies or the work of “traitors.” Neither would it matter to contradict him on his obvious lack of any real grasp of history (his ideas about how and why America was drawn into war with Japan were ludicrous, dead wrong, and don’t even make logical sense–not to mention that they’re factually in error). Any points we make about Mao or the brutal wrongness of the Chinese regime, past and present, are dismissed by Wayne as simple “western hatred and a desire to keep the Chinese people from attaining their true position in the world” and other such nonsense.

    To contradict such an asshole with facts is to be called a liar and ridiculous names (note the pathetic attempts at trying to belittle me and others with all sorts of made-up labels, as though anyone here would believe for an instant that Wayne knows anything about us or could substantiate a single bit of his cutesy name-calling and clumsy insults). Nevertheless, Mao’s crimes are well-documented and the period of his rule in China known as one of the most brutal and repressive in history.

    Page after page is available on all this, and SCHOLARLY web site after web site addresses it. But oh no, this “structural engineer” (if we can even believe he has a profession, truly) with delusions of grandeur and sickening eugenic notions knows better than generations of scholars, both western AND eastern, who have built up years and volumes of evidence against Mao.

    This is the first time, on this site, that I’ve actually encountered a human being as disgustingly evil as Wayne. Speaking to him is no doubt an experience exactly like speaking to a rabid KKK member or Nazi, or some Red revolutionary from the 60s or 70s from… well, take your pick of any brutal and horrible revolutionary movement of the time. Such people truck only in lies, distortions, propaganda and brainwashed nonsense.

    He needs to be ignored and left to what he is. And he’s welcome to his sick hatreds and psychotic ramblings. I, for one, will indulge him no further.

    And If anyone cares, this is just a TINY sampling of the scholarly works available on the crimes of Mao and his regime:

    Becker, Jasper (1996). Hungry Ghosts: China’s Secret Famine. London: John Murray.

    Lee, Hong Yung (1978). The Politics of the Chinese Cultural Revolution: A Case Study. Berkeley, Calif.: University of California Press.

    Short, Philip (1999). Mao: A Life. New York: Henry Holt.

    Teiwes, Frederick C. (1979). Politics and Purges in China: Rectification and the Decline of Party Norms, 1950–1965. White Plains, N.Y.: M.E. Sharpe.

  • Baxter In Action

    I don’t feel any need to wade into this debate. Needless to say, I am behind Carl and Randall on this one. But I must ask, for my own sense of curiosity (and out of fear for the future of global stability): Wayne, are your views common in China? I mean, if you were to speak to most everyone you know, would they readily agree with what you say? I have met a number of Chinese people in my life and never come across imperialism, racism, rage or jingoism. Have I simply been lucky? I honestly would like to know the answer to that.

  • Clemenceau

    I don’t think Robespierre should be included in the list. He organised the comittie of public sfety (which is nothing like it sounds) during a peroid of extreme chos. He was trying to bring some order. The end does not justify the means, but I do not think he should be in the top 10.

  • I’m_fed-up_of_your_arguing

    all of you are calling people by names, and trying to be a bunch attention seekers by screaming like little teenage girls, and writing 1-meter long comments.

    This information is no more precise, or anymore precise, than any of your statements. It’s biased, like every written piece on history!

    My Inbox is getting filled with your pointless arguing, and there is nothing I can do about it! Damn!!

  • Carl


    You may have to un-tick your box thats says ‘Notify me of followup comments via e-mail’. That should solve your inbox problems. Even if the information given here is biased there are varying views so the intelligent thing to do would be to take it all in and form your own opinion on the matter.

    As for Baxter’s question, i won’t deny that Mao is in fact quite revered in China.. That is Mainland China, not including Taiwan, Hong Kong & Macao. For those uninformed, Mao is on every Chinese bank note except for the lowest notes which are reserved for the other ethnic minorities of China. However, Hong Kong have an altogether different system of notes. Mao does not appear on any of them, naturally. And of course nor does he appear on any of the Macanese notes.

    The people in China will generally agree that Mao himself is not a bad person, but a person that has made bad decisions, if that. But this is how the cult of personality works. And i agree entirely with Randall again when he stated:

    ‘The fact is that people who spend countless years being hammered into believing the near-divine nature of a “great leader” are, sometimes, going to continue to believe it regardless of all evidence to the contrary.’

    I’m not sure exactly where the Hong Kong people would stand, as they were under British rule at the time, but there was an article recently written, (unfortunately i cannot find the site), which quoted a Hong Kong, Mao Zedong paraphernalia peddler as stating that ‘he despised Mao, but it fed his family’.

    Despite the fact that some of his blunders have been made public to the Chinese, i stupidly assumed that China was going in a capitalist direction whilst not paying attention to the provinces that i had visited in 2007. Most of the east coast is flourishing and going in a very capitalist direction, however, inland the country takes on a much more communist lifestyle where the bulk of the population are, and exist in some form of poverty. And this is where the numbers are made up. This is where the people have had their eyes covered, been too gullible and not cared a thing about it. But, unfortunately they don’t have much of a choice anyway. Even if they did have a very independent mind it is virtually impossible to rise from the poverty level. Which is why i think if you don’t have a university degree on Mainland China you are in a world of shit.

    It is the Chinese that travel to other countries that are going to eventually disagree with Mao. And that is why you, Randall, have come across Chinese people who do not like Mao.

  • Wayne1770

    Randall: you write a lot of stuff, but end up saying virtually nothing. The only thing you actually do is show yourself to be a person with an extremely elevated sense of self importance and self righteousness.

    This morally superior attitude is so typical of Westerners, particularly Anglo Saxon derived Westerners.

    You obviously don’t deal in facts – the first half of your last post was just bollocks – you are supposedly well educated, so I am surprised that you have obviously never heard of the ‘genetic fallacy.’

    The second half of your post just goes on to describe how ‘disgustingly evil’ I am. Yawn.

    No facts, no logically reasoned arguments. All we get is Randall riding his moral high horse and spouting on about how ‘evil’ people ruin this world for nice and decent people like himself.

    Randall – you are a dunce and a dork.

  • Randall


    I return the response to you: “Yawn.” Which is precisely what you are–a dullard and a loudmouthed bigot who likewise spouts off continuously but SAYS NOTHING germaine, rational, or factual.

    You’ve been given “logically reasoned” arguments AND facts, and dismissed them outright, out of hand, as the words of “western liars and propagandists” and “traitors to China.” Your smugness and own variety of self-righteousness in this regards is embarrassingly obvious.

    It hardly matters, but you also have no skill whatsoever in dealing out insults—even of an amusing variety. A “dunce and a dork”? Alliterative, but dull, unoriginal, and unsupportable.

    There is no further need to continue this discourse; we’re at odds as human beings and our philosophies only breed contempt for one another. My life is much too precious to me to waste these moments of time on the likes of you. The scholarly works are out there in their HUNDREDS for anyone with a brain to read and investigate—indicating quite clearly that Mao was a monster and one of the worst mass murderers in human history. An extensive bibliography offered to you (which I could offer–and in fact, above, I offered a VERY truncated version) would only be ignored by you or, again, dismissed as lies and the words of traitors. You’ve made that plainly obvious.

    There is, therefore, no basis for any “debate” or “argument” here.

  • Wayne1770

    Just a few proofs of Randall’s racist, patronizing hypocrite and bully:


    Randall implies that Tibet nor Taiwan belongs to China (in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, and in spite of the position of all countries in the world,including Western countries, to the contrary)

    Yet Randall is a white American who is now occupying land that was stolen off the Native Americans. If Randall was not a racist hypocrite, before demanding China gives up Tibet, he and all other white Americans should get their hairy asses back to Europe (as well as white Australians, Canadians, and New Zealanders).

    But no, Randall sees no irony in demanding that China give up Tibet and Taiwan, while he himself comfortably parks his ass on other peoples land in North America.

    Randells obviously thinks its OK for whites to steal from Asians. But not OK for Asians to even demand what is rightfully their own.


    Randall thinks that a Chinese man from Hong Kong (and yes, Hong Kongers are Chinese) should not have his views on China and Chinese history taken seriously. Nor should the views of people on the Chinese mainland (all brain-washed) be taken seriously.

    The people who really understand China and the Chinese people of course, are of course white Americans like Randall.


    “TODAY’S China is, yes, a much more open society than it used to be. I applaud that. I believe that China will inevitably move more and more towards greater opennness and freedom for its people.”

    I cannot in all seriousness believe that Randall cares so much for the welfare of the Chinese people. Most normal people don’t spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about how other people run their own lives or their own countries.

    I must admit my mind is not overly exercised on how Argentinians should view the legacy of the Perons, or why Indians still worship cows, or even why Nigerians sentenced a woman to be stoned to death several years ago.

    Randall cares not for China or the Chinese people. The only thing in China he really is happy to see opening up is some Chinese hos pussy (cause probably like Carl he can’t get a woman of his own race). And he doesn’t really love Chinese people (loving Chinese pussy is not the same as respect and love for the Chinese people) Chinese people to Randall are targets of opportunity for his condescending and patronizing attitude.


    Randall would like China to have American style ‘democracy.’ However even someone as intellectually challenged as Randall knows that his version of democracy is now currently well and alive in India, the Phillipines, Thailand, and Kenya. None of these countries is exactly a paradise – in fact living conditions in these countries are in general a lot worse than in China. And all have undergone unrest and chaos at election time.

    Obviously Randall wants the same for China – chaos and unrest. Countries like the Phillipines and Thailand have people living off rubbish tips, their children prostituted out to fat white foreigners like Carl and Randall – but that is not a human rights issue to Randall.

    In reality the only ‘rights’ Randall and Carel are really concerned about is the the right for him to fuck cheap Asian poontang (and possibly even kids -the sick fuck).


    Randall does not like Chinese admiration for Mao, in spite of Mao’s mistakes. But Randall has no problem Americans revering the memory of that racist, slave-holding fuck George Washington. He probably has no problem with Americans admiration for that champion of ethnic cleansing Andrew Jackson.

    And Randall does think that the American experiment was worth it, in spite of slavery and genocide.

    But Chinese who respect Mao, who never enslaved people, who never committed genocide, are ‘evil.’

    Obviously Randall thinks whites enslaving people is good, but Chinese who unite and raise up China are bad.

    …also much more (when I get the time)

  • Wayne1770

    The scholarly works are out there in their HUNDREDS for anyone with a brain to read and investigate—indicating quite clearly that Mao was a monster and one of the worst mass murderers in human history.

    Randall – just absolute bs.

    Even the Philp Short biography mentions 3 to 4 million executions – many of these of actual criminals, landlords and local bullies. This is not a huge number (actual number probably a lot less), given the size of China’s population, and the need to secure the revolution and destroy feudalism.

    There were about 10 to 15 million famine deaths – but hardly anyone claims that Mao deliberately set out to cause these deaths. In fact the failure of the GLF was a big political setback for Mao. Mao’s policies were stupid – but these were borne of his desperation in wanting to uplift the living standards of the Chinese people in as short a time as possible.

    Only a dork like Randell, someone so completely lacking in proper moral perspective would equate deaths caused by policy blunders with the deliberate gassing and shooting of people for simply being members of a different race.

    Even the purging of political opponents is not the same as the racist murders carried out by the Nazis. The fact is it was dog eat dog up there, kill or be killed. That was the system that was set up – by the purgers and the purged. So really the purged had no real justification for complaint. Stalin killed Trotsky, but then Trotsky was no angel either.

    Just like Liu Shaoqi got severely dealt to by Mao (not good), but then Liu Shaoqi’s ideological successors are the very ones in power today -but then Randall hates today’s China leaders also (in fact Deng Xiaoping who was purged by Mao was the one who ordered the June 4 crackdown).

    Randall – you are a dumbshit a dork and a dunce (I’m not interested in originality – only accuracy).

  • Wayne1770

    Baxter In Action:

    But I must ask, for my own sense of curiosity (and out of fear for the future of global stability): Wayne, are your views common in China?

    Yes, very – Carl has already confirmed that.

    As for Chinese people abroad, read this piece by NRO contributor John Derbyshire:

    Obviously I don’t agree with John Derbyshire’s take on it (he is a right wing hack, married to a Chinese woman – a typical unattractive white man who can’t score poontang of his own race), but he is right on the money in describing what Chinese people really think.

    To paraphrase Miles Davis, if white people really knew what black people were thinking they would shit themselves – same goes for chienese.

    China is a peace loving country. We do not invade other people, unlike America and Britain. We wish well for all peoples in the world.

    But people who wish to insult and degrade us – the likes of Carl and Randall – we will fight to the last breath.

  • Wayne1770

    Sorry – stuffed up the italics in previous post.

    Baxter In Action:

    But I must ask, for my own sense of curiosity (and out of fear for the future of global stability): Wayne, are your views common in China?

    Yes, very – Carl has already confirmed that.

    As for Chinese people abroad, read this piece by NRO contributor John Derbyshire:…..ascism.htm

    Obviously I don’t agree with John Derbyshire’s take on it (he is a right wing hack, married to a Chinese woman – a typical unattractive white man who can’t score poontang of his own race), but he is right on the money in describing what Chinese people really think.

    To paraphrase Miles Davis, if white people really knew what black people were thinking they would shit themselves – same goes for chienese.

    China is a peace loving country. We do not invade other people, unlike America and Britain. We wish well for all peoples in the world.

    But people who wish to insult and degrade us – the likes of Carl and Randall – we will fight to the last breath.

  • damien_karras

    Wayne… excuse me if I misinterpreted some of your earlier ramblings, let me know if you see what I see:

    “We wish well for all peoples in the world.”

    Yet looking back at your earlier posts, you’re all over the map!

    “Randall is smart enough to understand that India will never be able to threaten the West and get payback for imperialism, but China can and will.”

    “I want my people to do to your people what your people have subjected my people to these past 200 years.”

    Can you explain these inconsistancies? Or do you switch your view depending on your temperment of the moment?

  • Baxter In Action

    Thanks for the replies from Carl and Wayne. Both fascinating and thought provoking.

    “China is a peace loving country. We do not invade other people, unlike America and Britain. We wish well for all peoples in the world.”
    I’ll try to phrase this as delicately as I can so as not to cause any particular offence, but if this is true then how do you account for the fact that China executes on average 8000 people a year, for the suppression of religious groups such as Falun Gong, for torture of prisoners and of reports of widespread organ harvesting?

    Again, eager not to take offence, but you speak of “a typical unattractive white man who can’t score poontang of his own race”. How do you account for sexually active Chinese people in the West? I’ve encountered a number, both male and female, who are in my country for a period of perhaps 6 months studying or working. Would these people then be considered unattractive in China?

  • Carl

    Baxter In Action:

    There is no point in asking the questions you ask. Not to Wayne anyway. You will get an answer that is as bulshit, hypocritical & contradictive as the rest of his ridiculous posts. He is generally quite aggressive towards facts and logic. And that goes for you too Damien.

    Stating everyone as racist, but it appears Wayne is the only one who is racist. If i were to go off on a wild tangent in the style of Wayne, i’d say his contempt for the white man is a result of his estranged father being a ‘wai guo ren’ who knocked up his prostitute mother. Hence why Wayne has a severe dislike for the white man.

    The people purged in China during Mao’s reign were mostly innocents anyway. As for China topping the world’s executions, Wayne would have no idea as he is not from the Mainland. Nor would he acknowledge any account of suspicious organ harvesting in China. Nor would he acknowledge China selling arms to war torn regions of Africa, feeding violence at a disgraceful rate. I suppose Wayne, you have never heard of a country by the name of Myanmar either.

    I met a Chinese man from Beijing once in the Tibetan Autonomous Region and he told me his job was selling arms. His biggest customer was Myanmar. After i finished chatting with him, he proceded to state that ‘buddha was in his heart’. What a load of shit. I could barely hide my rage.

    And the reason for the 15+ million killed during the famine was mainly due to Mao being obsessed with taking peoples woks off them and getting them to make a load of steel.

    Quote Wayne: ‘We wish well for all peoples in the world.’

    Uhhhhh yeah.. sure mate.

    You are the biggest hypocrite since Mao himself. As i recall it was Mao who wanted to put China into chaos.

    From Mao’s little red book: ‘But when it moves to the peaceful years I hate it. Not because I love chaos but because a time of peace is not good for the development of the people. It is unbearable’

    Destroying half of China’s antique history i guess also was absolutely GREAT for the development of the people. Being a structural engineer, as you say you are Wayne, i’m sure you have read a lot of books, so according to Mao you are quite the stupid one. As Mao stated on the 26th of June 1967 ‘The more books you read, the more stupid you become.’

    But hell, i’m just a misinformed fool anyway.

  • Mark

    612. Carl : Yeah, you’re really getting people on your side there mate –

    “…Stating everyone as racist, but it appears Wayne is the only one who is racist. If i were to go off on a wild tangent in the style of Wayne, i’d say his contempt for the white man is a result of his estranged father being a ‘wai guo ren’ who knocked up his prostitute mother. Hence why Wayne has a severe dislike for the white man…”

    Seriously, just chuck in a bit more contempt of your own and everyone will see your POV. It works 100% of the time, just ask Pi and Randall (and Wayne). I mean, they never get into any arguments because of their overzealous arguing…

  • Wayne1770

    China is a peace loving country. We do not invade other people, unlike America and Britain. We wish well for all peoples in the world.”
    I’ll try to phrase this as delicately as I can so as not to cause any particular offence, but if this is true then how do you account for the fact that China executes on average 8000 people a year, for the suppression of religious groups such as Falun Gong, for torture of prisoners and of reports of widespread organ harvesting?

    Thank you for your question Baxter. I appreciate your polite and respectful tone.

    Regardless of ones personal views on the death penalty (I tend to be abolitionist in sentiment – unless we are talking of the Carls and Randalls of the world), one has to acknowledge its value as a deterrent against crime. Even if China actually did execute 8000 people per year, is that actually an act that diminishes violence or increases violence. Without knowing the exact number of crimes, especially violent, that would have occurred in the absence of executions – something that is pretty difficult to quantify, I hardly think it is fair that one can point to executions and thus say Chinese are violent or not peace loving. Perhaps it is because Chinese are so peace loving that they abhor crime and thus support harsh penalties, including executions. And there is little doubt that the death penalty enjoys widespread support in China. In fact the government, as well as seeing it as an indispensable means of education, to paraphrase Deng Xiaoping, also use it as a way of assuaging public anger towards criminals. In this respect the Chinese government is far more responsive to public opinion than many Western European governments – poll after poll in many Western countries shows majority support for the death penalty. And I have heard that a majority of Australians actually supported Singapore’s execution of a young Vietnamese Australian drug trafficker only 3 or 4 years ago.

    By the way it is not CHina with the world’s highest number of executions per capita, but actually Singapore. However Singapore also has one of the world’s lowest crime rates. About a 15 ago, we had a spate of young Hong Kong drugs traffickers caught and executed in Singapore. There was a bit of an outcry then, but what is important to note now is that since then there has not been one case of a Hong Konger being caught up on serious drug trafficking charges in Singapore. If you consider that drug offences lead to all types of other offences, many violent, it can be argued, again, that support for the death penalty shows a country’s determination to stamp out evil and violent behaviour.

    So no, I don’t think that a country that shoots criminals is necessarily a violently minded society.

    As for Falun Gong, the government was completely correct to suppress this movement. In a country like China, with arable land per capita at about a sixth of what it is in the US, it can ill afford disorder. The leader of Falun Gong is some nutcase who thinks he arrived on earth from outer space. Given that a large part of China’s population is still scientifically illetierate, and very superstitious, they are fertile ground for purveying all sorts of whacky beliefs and dangerous beliefs. China has suffered throughout its history mass chaos and dislocation from the actions of crazy millenarian movements – the Taipings being just one example of this (the Taipings are actually praised in China today – they were actually right in opposing the corrupt Qing dynasty and foreign imperialists – but that does not take away the fact Hong Xiuquan was a complete nutcase and fruitloop).

    for torture of prisoners and of reports of widespread organ harvesting?

    These are actually illegal practices in China. As for torture – what you mean I suppose is abuses of inmates in detention. I’m sure this happens not just in China, but also in all developing countries – even so called democracies like India, Phillipines, Thailand, Indonesia, Kenya, Bhutan, and especially Brazil – where street kids use to be summarily executed by paramilitaries (not sure if this still happens).

    Even the US only a few decades ago provided little federal protection against lynchings.

    This stuff is bad, and is undesirable, but inevitable in relatively poor, developoign countries.

    But I hardly think it is something the leadership at the top wants or desires – I hardly think President Hu or Premier Wen would countenance torture. In fact the Chinese press has been quite vociferous in its condemnation of several cases of inmates dying in police custody. It is a situation that China admits to and does not want:

    As for China being peace loving – just hand around Chinese and you will notice there is far less macho posturing, and bullying than you will find in the US. People are not into gratuitous violence. They do not think it is cool to use one’s fists to sort out problems. That is an Anglo Saxon thing.

    Chinese use violence as a means to an end, and also because of war and political conflict – but they think it is an uncool thing. In fact China is about the only major civilizations where soldiering was traditionally despised (unlike the martial Japanese).

    There is a famous saying: ?????????

    You don’t use good steel for nails, don’t waste good men to be soliders.

    Thus the Chinese have hardly ever invaded foreign lands, and currently do not currently occupy or claim any lands that are not almost universally recgonized as rightly belonging to China.

    In summary the Chinese are perhaps the most peace lovign people in the world.

  • Wayne1770

    Carl said I met a Chinese man from Beijing once in the Tibetan Autonomous Region and he told me his job was selling arms. His biggest customer was Myanmar. After i finished chatting with him, he proceded to state that ‘buddha was in his heart’. What a load of shit. I could barely hide my rage.

    Everyone, Carl included. Please look at this chart:

    … and then try and tell me that Carl is not just one big hypocrite – people like him and Randall are just real modern day Pharisees.

  • Mark

    614. Wayne1770 :

    At least the US has enough morals to keep an embargo. There isn’t a problem in supplying guns to developing nations – if you look at your page, China themselves qualify as developing – but there is an inherent problem with what China did in Sudan, buddy.

  • Carl

    What is ‘my own’ exactly Mark? And what contempt have i shown?

    Mark, I did not plan to get into such overzealous arguments as you describe. What i suggested was already put forth by karismac 591. I have been more ‘overzealous’ than yourself in the vain hope that we may convey simple, factual or not, points over to our good friend Wayne. With a great deal of failure i might add. You quitted at 552…. mate.

    Quote Mark: 552. Wayne1770 : ROFLMFAO! I swear to the anti-trolling god that this is the last one.
    552 was 61 posts ago fellow countryman.

    It seems, maybe, it was better i did not put forth my opinions of Mao in the first place. I don’t doubt that any person on this board has changed their views of Mao. And if after 600+ posts anyone’s views coincide with Wayne’s, then i, without question, commend him in his skills to spout propaganda & garbage.

  • Mark

    616. Carl : “…And what contempt have i shown?…”

    Ok, quick bit of policy advice here, don’t play dumb, less than 20% of LVers like people who can’t read and/or refuse to.

    [b] You called his mother a prostitute [/b]

    Might I ask in what universe does that no qualify as contempt?

    “…You quitted at 552…. mate…”

    No, I lacked internet for 4 days after 552, mate. Not to mention that I stopped feeding a troll. It’s not called quitting to bring his obvious tendencies to light and then cut off his “fix”, so to speak. You should try it, it’s the only way you’re going to beat this mega-troll.

  • Mark

    Ahh! Sorry, fooked up my bold tags there, but you still get the gist if it I hope :)

  • Carl

    I get the gist fine. I did suggest his mother was a prostitute, as the second person to.

    I had never heard of before this board.

    So how did i show contempt to my ‘own’ again? Nevermind. I don’t plan to argue with you Mark. But please don’t deny you are feeding the troll. Posting anything is food and i don’t deny i havn’t done it myself.

    Ok, anyway Mark, you soldier on brother. Cut off his fix? Are you kidding? Do you have access to secateurs and his internet line?

    Wayne1770: Your link failed to show my nation on that list. I already have informed you i am not American you idiot. Assumptions will show your greatest weaknesses. So if you wanna play that game, China is still deals more arms than my nation :)

  • Mark

    619. Carl : You’re making yourself look like an arrogant fool –

    a) How does being the second person to throw an unfounded, blind and pointless insult, make it any less retarded? (Not to mention the complete and utter lack of humility and outrageous hipocrasy shown by the first in line to throw it)

    b) I said “…contempt OF your own…”, not *to* your own. I meant, contempt stemming from you. If you need me to point that out again… Well, maybe you should leave LV for the big boys then :|

    c) I won’t deny that I’ve fed him, but you’ve done a whole lot more, so maybe not the best thing to try and shoot me out of the sky with?

    d) Nope, I couldn’t be bothered going to HK, especially with that flu crap going around ATM, but I can do my bit by shutting up. Or I could’ve, if everyone else had followed suit…

  • Carl

    a) It doesn’t make it any less retarded. But there has been more than enough contempt shown here by numerous posters.

    b) I stand corrected. I read it incorrectly.

    c) I said that that i do not deny feeding him. It was you who went back on what your own word. I love these posts ‘this is the last one’.

    d) Don’t blame others for your ‘just as pointless’ comments.

    ‘It’s not called quitting to bring his obvious tendencies to light and then cut off his “fix”, so to speak. You should try it, it’s the only way you’re going to beat this mega-troll.’

    Yes, lets ‘beat’ him! Beat him with what? Logic? Reason?

    Well it seemed to work brilliantly previously, so be my guest.

  • karismac

    Mark, I brought up Wayne’s mother not as contempt but out of genuine concern when Wayne became very insulting to Carl and said so many things he could have no
    idea about (about Carl) that it did sound like he had perhaps some personal grievance
    against the men who come to China looking for sex.

    And thankyou Wayne that you refrained from calling me names in your last post to me. But I do not need a degree in psychology BTW I already have my own business (and make more money than most people do) giving advice and help to people with psychology degrees whose lives are still a mess. They pay me well because I get results for them. I have been known to write papers for them too.

    I do think that you have made some very interesting points, but I do not agree that any government is entitled to oppress people whether where they live is officially their country or someone elses. Why are so many Chinese women so desperate to leave that the sex trade thrives there? I am not saying that any other country is better or worse, it is about looking in the mirror first wouldn’t you agree?

    And Wayne I doubt that many people here will want to see your point of view because it conflicts so drastically from their own world view, the point I wish to make is that putting your arguments across in such a derogatory and aggressive way, when you are already amongst people who see the world differently than you is not smart unless you enjoy feeling victimized.

    I have been interested in hearing about Mao and history but honestly the “don’t talk to him” and name calling and attempts to get people onside and side against others here is not something I need to learn any more about. I finished primary school many many years ago and was fortunate enough somewhere later in my life to learn some maturity at some point along the way.

    My work calls and so I must go , but for interest on this topic and a bit of trivia I will leave you with this …

    Mao had the same eastern and western Astrological signs (Capricorn born in the year of the snake) as Mahammed Ali, Martin Luther King Jr and me!

    I am sorry if I have claimed myself more mature than you all but I guess arrogance must be a tendency with this combination of signs! I don’t think any of these men were known for their humility!

    Oh and try and laugh it off guys … it’s history.

  • Mark

    621. Carl :

    “…Yes, lets ‘beat’ him! Beat him with what? Logic? Reason?

    Well it seemed to work brilliantly previously, so be my guest.”

    ROFL, did you read what you post? I said, the best – and quite possibly onlt – way to beat him, is to just shut up. Stop handing him plates of steaming troll-fodder and get over his inane comments. We all know he’s retarded, I don’t need to be arguing with you as well. Sorry for starting an argument, I just wanted to point out that the *worst* possible thing for us is to post aggressively and insult him, so let’s stop?

    622. karismac : “Mark, I brought up Wayne’s mother not as contempt but out of genuine concern when Wayne became very insulting to Carl and said so many things he could have no
    idea about (about Carl) that it did sound like he had perhaps some personal grievance
    against the men who come to China looking for sex…”

    That is an inventive save, no need for “You’re right, I stepped out of line. I’m sorry,” when you can perform verbal acrobatics to GTFO of trouble hey?

  • Wayne1770: “In summary the Chinese are perhaps the most peace lovign people in the world.”


    Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people executed during the first three years of the PRC.
    Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward, 1959-61: 19 – 40 million
    Cultural Revolution: up to 20 million
    Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
    Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
    Tibetans killed by the Chinese since 1950: 1,200,000

    That is excluding things like Tiananmen square. Peace loving indeed.

  • Deathking

    Joseph stalin is a crazy man and hitler deserved to die he killed himself dumbass

  • Deathking

    Try to understand you stupid assholes hitler was a crazed man you needed to be put down. If i was back in hitler’s time I would have shot is ass. Put that fucker down.

  • hilterdied

    Watch your mouth death

  • Baxter In Action

    Hitler got off light. He should have been put down like a fucking dog right after Munich.

  • karismac

    Hi everyone and bye for now, it has been swell but the swellings gone down now …

    Oh and BTW Wayne, it is not actually so common for people who believe in UFO’s to be crazy, If there is a common obsession with schizophrenics I would say there is a much stronger link with the bible.

    Take care everyone and get some sleep OK?

  • Deathking

    fuck hitler he is a big pussy that killed jews for no reason.

    Hitler should got killed by the jews put him againest the wall and mow him down with machine guns thats want I’m talking about.

  • Cybogen

    631. Deathking –
    fuck hitler he is a big pussy that killed jews for no reason.

    Hitler should got killed by the jews put him againest the wall and mow him down with machine guns thats want I’m talking about.
    I couldn’t agree with you more Deatking. Hitler was such a [email protected] coward. I liked how they they portrayed him getting punished by Satan in Hell on the movie “Little Nicky” starring Adam Sandler

  • Cybogen

    I think its appropiate to add the conspiracy of underground groups operating under the guise as terrorists to be added as a category of the most evil man group!Its not likely that 9-11 was caused solely by terrorists operating without our governments knowledge and letting it go on still. This could have been the fuse to start the need for the so called ‘Patriot Act” to invade people homes, internet searches wireless phone calls, wire tapping and so on. All this to say we are just trying to weed out inside terrorists groups. hence the 9-11 attacks was enough to make americans think “Well the goverment is looking out for our best interests”
    ANother incident…it is very unlikely Oswald had killed Kennedy. It is widely assumed he was a fall guy to lead attention away from what we now suspect that this assassination was conducted by those numerous groups outlined in the list above. Its really so shameful that the life of a man is so petty to gain the interests of a partys agenda policys.
    It makes one feel very discouraged of the state of the world. I just wish it would come time for Armaggedon so all this sadness will be over and GODS kingdom will begin as promised!

  • TEX

    “operating without our governments knowledge”
    Damn straight – Clinton knew years ahead
    “and letting it go on still”
    yep – he sure did

  • Cybogen

    Yes, I agree with you there TEX and I tell you this. There’s alot more secrecy and un reported happenings going on that we’ll never know of. The worst part of it all is we the American people are paying for what they do no matter how corrupt and bad it is and we don’t learn anything about it. The government stinks more than a garbage dump!

  • ironmaidenowns

    good list, i’m glad to see stalin get #1.

  • dru

    I think you should add the 33rd president of the United States Harry Truman to your list. What he did was just in excusable. Over 220 thousand people, most of them innocent civilians(women and children) was killed in his nuclear attacks on hiroshima and nagasaki. He is no better than Osama Bin Laden. they both heartlessly killed thousands of innocent people. I hope they both burn in hell.

  • jack

    You need to fix the information on Hitler. Six million Jews were not killed. At the most 300,000 as casualties of war, allied bombings and Typhus.

  • Mom424

    Jack: Not another Holocaust denier. The nazi’s kept very good records Jack – about 4 million recorded deaths just in the camps. We haven’t even discussed the forced marches and other interesting ways Hitler and his minions carried out genocide. Nor can you explain away the difference in the Jewish population in Europe pre and post WWII. 7.3 million before the war, just over 1.4 million after the war. You fail math as well as history?

  • karismac

    Hi MOM424,

    I understand what you are saying but after the huge fight when there was differences of opinion on Mao I would like to ask that you reconsider the “Oh no not another Holocaust denier” and “fail math as well” type comments? There are a lot of people who have questions about what is written in the history books about the holocaust and I for one would enjoy reading peoples different ideas on this subject. Especially if participants could restrain themselves from belittling each other.

    I mean that is where the internets potential can really be realised is it not? To have a discussion with people from all over the world about their different views? To hear from real people what they think instead of simply believing what the news or our history books or government say? I know that is certainly what interests me and not sending my friends teddy bears or taking care of virtual pets.

    This could be a very interesting discussion and very productive if we all show some manners and some personal restraint.

  • Carl

    Karismic: I don’t mean to rain on your parade, but i think your dire attempts to police this thread, (or anywhere else you are in the world of forum), are in vain. Manners and personal restraint are more likely to be found at the dinner table, that is, if people even eat at a dinner table anymore. Manners on the internet? No.

    ‘I mean that is where the internets potential can really be realised is it not? To have a discussion with people from all over the world about their different views?’

    Call me pessimistic but views are usually not discussed on the internet, they are forced. Take it as it is.

  • oouchan

    641. Carl: I agree with you. Waste of time to teach someone manners on the internet.

    Karismac: Mom424 is correct. She was doing what you just did. Pointing out anothers shortcomings. She was correcting someone on a misconception. I agree with her. There are too many people out there today who deny that the holocaust happened. With as much evidence that is out there, how can someone just deny it?

  • karismac

    I am not trying to police anyone, just make a suggestion of what
    might be more interesting. You can do whatever you like (of course).
    As for there being no conflicting opinions on the holocaust I would
    disagree, here is an intersting site for example;

    Not either side of the debate on the numbers of victims but a very
    interesting perspective especially since it is coming from Torah Jews.

  • Mark

    642. oouchan : In jack and karismac’s defence I think what they were trying to get across was that maybe it isn’t as bad as everyone thinks. Sure, it happened, but Holocaust Revision is a valid school of thought completely seperate to Denial.

  • karismac

    Thanks Mark but I think it was probably worse than people think. If you look at the website I gave the link to before you will see the Zionists role in WWII. The Nazi party may be gone but the Zionists (the real masterminds of the war) are still very much with us. They are in power in full force in Israel now and if the Jews themselves (who probably know the most about them) are as worried about them as they are, I think we should be too.

  • Carl

    It is always worse than people can think/imagine. How many personal accounts of horrific experiences does it take exactly?

    How can you validly imagine the hardships and atrocities that these people have endured. I surely cannot imagine, nor do i dare to.

  • oouchan

    644. Mark: Not what I learned and not what I am teaching my kid. It was awful and there isn’t another “version” to it. It wasn’t blown out of proportion so how a “Holocaust Revision” would come into it is beyond me.
    Has the human race become wimps or something that we need to downplay a horrific part of our past? Doesn’t make sense. I agree with Mom424 and Carl.

  • Mark

    645. karismac : I’m choosing my words very carefully here because I don’t want to insult you, but that site was full of crap. All that was was anti-Zionist propoganda. Zionism is against anti-Semitism, in all of its forms. Herzl saying that anti-Semites were going to help them was akin to us saying that Wayne will help us prove that Chinese people need to be taught how bad Mao really was. Sure, it isn’t necessarily good that Wayne comes here and pisses us off, and it sure isn’t good that we have to point out Mao’s flaws to the country who bore the brunt of them, but what can you do? Likewise, hatred towards Jews is bad, so is the fact that they need to set up a state where they can live together – whereas most other racial and cultural groups already have one, or more – but in the end, it’s better than what the reality as it stands is.

    To summarise with a tongue-in-cheek statement to highlight my position on the matter. Did you know that the US Government where the ones who actually blew up the WTC???

    646. Carl : “…It is always worse than people can think/imagine. How many personal accounts of horrific experiences does it take exactly?…”

    If they’re corroborated, not many. But Revisionists quote inconsistencies left right and center. I’m not saying that I agree, but don’t take the facts as facts just because “they are”. If that makes any sense :P

  • Mark

    647. oouchan : I know that this issue may hit close to home – Ukrainian gypsy you said somewhere? – and I don’t want to insult or anger you, which you already know. But there is an objective reality to what happened, you and I are *never* going to know what it was. Just keep that in mind.

  • oouchan

    649. Mark: Maybe not, but with the records my family has, the evidence collected, the records the germans kept…I would say that our numbers and the horrific atrocities that occured are more than correct. I have no hate towards anyone (althoug most of my family does) but I will not forget what happened and I will not teach another “version” to my kid. It is downplaying a evil part of human nature.

    Just to be square on this…didn’t someone above try to downplay Mao? or Stalin? Why is it only Hitler that people are trying to downplay? Hitler might have been a nasty bastard, but Stalin is much worse….yet no one downplayed his part in history… food for thought?

  • Mark

    650. oouchan : Just to clarify my position on this, I think the Holocaust happened just as prescribed by most historians. However, I won’t point blank refuse to believe that it might not have been *that* bad. Don’t get me wrong there either, genocide isn’t cool, but the word “that” implies relativity. Open mind, open mind…

    Stalin’s done enough downplaying for himself without our help :)

  • Carl

    Who is anyone to say that ‘it might not have been *that* bad.’

    Can you speak for someone that had their whole family decimated and then further physically tortured themselves?

    Would you say the same thing if you were tortured so much so that your mother could not recognise you?

  • Mark

    652. Carl : “…Who is anyone to say that ‘it might not have been *that* bad.’…”

    Who are you to say it was? All the evidence you’ve presented is anecdotal.

  • oouchan

    651. Mark: I can see your point. Kinda like blind faith…I just don’t see it that way. My family has records and with the other records found…it’s just too much evidence to say “it might have not been that bad”. In fact…It might be worse. How sad is that?

    As for Stalin..when you are a leader you can re-write anything…can’t you? That man should have been wired and plugged into a socket.

  • karismac

    648.Mark : ” All that was was anti-Zionist propoganda. Zionism is against anti-Semitism, in all of its forms. …

    To summarise with a tongue-in-cheek statement to highlight my position on the matter. Did you know that the US Government where the ones who actually blew up the WTC??? ”

    I am interested in your point Mark but you may need to explain it more clearly as with all of the double negatives and ‘tongue in cheek’ I do not understand your intended message.

    I do not live in the US and I will tell you that there is extremely compelling evidence and a huge number of people who believe that the US government blew up the world trade centre to justify their war over opium and oil.

    Anti Semitism is also a controversial subject amongst a people with such stark internal divisions and conflicts as the Jews, if Torah Jews burn Zionist flags is that anti Semitic? And what about all the research to show that it was the Zionists that herded the Jews into Israel for their own political purposes? Is that anti Semitism? And what about the disquiet society Jews feel about their own international bankers to the point where they cannot be mentioned in public without clearing the room? I read a piece written by a Jewish man about that and the similarity between this fact and the ‘he who cannot be named’ status of Voldemort in the Harry Potter books. Those books were really a very good allegory for the situation I think, The wizard community divided in a mortal and deadly conflict and the Muggles (Goys) oblivious to the conflict and even the reality of the wizard society.

    You might say that website is crap Mark, but the conflict is real and the Jewish people who put it up online take what they are putting across very seriously.

    As I say I am interested in your knowledge about this and if you could state what you know plainly I cannot promise that I will agree with you, but I will do my best to understand.

  • The Jacobin Club

    I suspect that this list was compiled by a nine year girl from Colorado.

    1. Khomeini was evil? The man didn’t even order the murder of the Shah when the Revolution was over. Something that is quite unprecedented in revolutions. Yet, he is more evil than Robespierre?

    2. You seem to be wretchedly ignorant of ancient history. How does Nero, who killed his own mother, not make the list? Even Hitler confessed his undivided love to his mother.

    I cannot critique this any longer — I am far too digusted.

    Reader Beware : This list is faulty.

  • Conrad Black

    I am going to say that I agree with most of this list, especially the last 2, although I’d have liked to see Mao, Caligula and maybe Bismark/Wilhelm II on the list. Again, goes back to the old top 100 list, and what you percieve to be evil of course.

  • Mark

    654. oouchan : I can understand how you could believe that it *was* that bad, and I’m sure you can see how I could belive that it *may* not have been that bad. I just don’t want to be the one sitting here saying that Mao is good “because”, so I’ll keep my mind open until something convinces me.

  • Mark

    655. karismac : “…I am interested in your point Mark but you may need to explain it more clearly as with all of the double negatives and ‘tongue in cheek’ I do not understand your intended message…”

    My point was that there is a lot of crap on the internet, we can’t believe it all. And I’ve never seen anything else anti-Zionist coming from a Jew, so I’m very, very sceptical to say the least.

    “…I do not live in the US and I will tell you that there is extremely compelling evidence and a huge number of people who believe that the US government blew up the world trade centre to justify their war over opium and oil…”

    Some people also believe that the US didn’t land on the Moon in ’69, the only difference is a lot of people wanted a reason to bash Bush.

    “…You might say that website is crap Mark, but the conflict is real and the Jewish people who put it up online take what they are putting across very seriously…”

    Yes, yes they do, I don’t doubt that at all. But the people who are the most serious about issues are the ones who go to extreme lengths, and don’t care what boundries they cross in the process, to prove their point. Someone doesn’t like Zionists, someone who made a website doesn’t like Zionists, someone who claims to be a Jew who doesn’t like Zionists made a website. Hardly compelling evidence at all – seeing as the site itself lacks any scientific (or even semi-decent anecdotal) evidence on that count.

  • oouchan

    658. Mark: I’m a little confused. Are you saying that Mao wasn’t evil or that he was? Or are you just staying on the fence here? Sorry…I wasn’t following that… :)

  • Mark

    660. oouchan : I’m saying that I don’t want to wind up saying that Mao is good just because I’ve been told so. As it stands I probably view his acts as evil and inherently bad, but I do believe that Wayne had some reasonable points on the state of China at the time – mitigating circumstances, by no means do they make what he did right, but maybe not so wrong?

  • oouchan

    661. Mark: I cringe a little at your post. “by no means do they make what he did right, but maybe not so wrong?” Ummm…not really. That same thinking can be applied to any of the people on this list. Evil is evil. No changing that. To me…there really isn’t a level of evilness making one person worse than another (except Stalin :twisted: )…they are all evil.

    I agree that we shouldn’t rely on what we are told, because how much gets changed or skewed from another’s point of view. However, with research we can see for ourselves what might have happened. Yes, Wayne did have some valid points…too bad he was an asshat about it.

  • Mark

    662. oouchan : I kill 1,000 Pacific Islanders to save 2,000 Australians, is that evil?

    What about 100 for 2,000?



    China is now in the best economic position in the world, without a single shred of doubt. They outdo India on pure size and growth. They’ve completely shown up the “Tiger Economies” of SE Asia in the current Crisis – specifically Japan because of their poor interest rate policies pre-credit-crunch – and their overtaking of the US is almost an inevitability. They couldn’t have done this without someone like Mao. Heck, they’d probably still be in an extremely fractured, poorly governed and violent state if no-one had stepped up.

    Read up on the Chinese Civil War, it was messy.

  • oouchan

    663. Mark: I agree with some of your points….but did he have to kill in order to get there? NO. There were other ways. Instead, he chose the easy way and that is what makes him evil.
    Evil is evil…period.

    And you are right..China is in the same position we were in and Japan was in and others were in. Mao helped China but in the wrong way.

  • Mark

    664. oouchan : Good and evil characteristics must balance out in a person at some point. What he did was amazing, brilliant, uniting China. It was phenomenal. But what he did afterwards to ensure complete power, that was evil.

  • oouchan

    665. Mark: True. That is so sad because he could have made a great country better, but he instead stepped on everyone he was trying to help. He went forward only to go back 5 steps.

  • Nehek

    Hirohito is on the list? What the HELL?!
    Unlike many of those on this list Hirohito did not wield dictatorial powers. The military government rather than the silent emperor,should be held responsible for the cruelties comitted before and during WW2 by Japan.

    Oh, and I think the author of this list will need to post his definition of Evil. Perhaps this list should have been named “10 evil men”, ‘cuz this ain’t a good TOP 10 list.

  • Mark

    666. oouchan : If he went back 5, he went forward at least 20. I know, I know, he killed people, that is bad. But the quality of life of these people used to be so, very, very bad and the times were poor. At least his economy and government functioned.

  • Mark

    667. Nehek : I’m sorry to make you look like a retard – but frankly, you are – but someone who stands by and lets his generals do that qualifies as evil buddy.


  • oouchan

    668. Mark: He went forward first…but then shit on the little people he was trying to help…in my mind, all that good was for nothing. He has literaly put them back in a worse position now. Many do not have freedoms that they used to enjoy. Yes…they have gained alot, but lost even more.

    (btw…just noticed that I was number 666…that was pretty cool)

  • oouchan

    667. Nehek: Sorry, but the empeor was in control. He was the one who had the final say. He also didn’t lift a finger to stop it. As far as I can tell, there really isn’t that many (if any at all) that can do worse then the men listed here so it truly is a Top 10.

  • Mark

    670. oouchan : Maybe they’ve lost some “rights” and “freedoms”, but they’re regaining them. And soon they’re going to be the biggest economy in the world by all accounts.

    “…(btw…just noticed that I was number 666…that was pretty cool)”

    I know! I noticed when I was replying to it…. Lucky old lady gets all the cool numbers :P

  • oouchan

    672. Mark: I agree to a point…If they keep going at the rate they are…it will collapse on them. They aren’t changing and countries need chnage to succeed. I fear if they do, we all will be in trouble.

    You are just jealous that I got that number before you. :P
    And at least I am a cute ‘old’ lady!

  • Rainier

    What a competition. Some of the names not there who killed & tortured senselessly are: Julius Caesar, Moses, David, Alexander, Dwight Eisenhower, Richard the (“Lion-“) Chicken-hearted, Napoleon Bonaparte, Mao Tse Tung, John Cecil Rhodes, George W. Bush, Christopher Columbus, Winston Churchill, Solomon, Richard Nixon, Henry Kissinger, Sukharto, Joseph Mobutu, Pinochet, the Popes, all heads-of-state, without exception, of Israel, the conquistadors & many many more. Do not forget also the Torturer of Torturers – Yahweh – who not only directed his chosen people to kill, torture, steal, discriminate, rape, ethnically cleanse … but who also created and constructed Hell where he presides over the MOST excruciating torture imaginable and which lasts forever and ever and ever. If such a horrible creature actually exists, he is the hands-down winner of the most evil men.

    So the above top-top ten list is purely subjective.

  • ironmaidenowns

    rainier: please tell me who george w bush and dwight d eisenhower have “killed and tortured senselessly”.

  • Rainier

    Duuuuhh. Hardly any of the top ten most evil men have personally killed & tortured, but they most certainly did preside over an unprecedented amount of murder and torture.

  • historydude45

    where’s rasputin?

    if anything, hitler should be #1.

  • Carl

    Nixon, now there’s a weasel.

    @ 673. oouchan

    I think you are right. The problem that i see here in China is that the rights of the people have been so elusive for so long that it is hard for people to recover. I mean i’m sure alot of people will look back at their lives the 60s and 70s and admit to themselves it was a dark place to be in time. As for the ‘fight for your right’, the people here don’t really put up much of a fight.. so that’s why the regaining of the rights Mark is talking about is taking a long time. Hell, i don’t see it changing too quickly either. Which, as you stated oouchan, is the problem.

    The rights here really are fuc*ed and i see it here everyday.

  • Mark

    678. Carl : “Nixon, now there’s a weasel…”

    What, for opening relations with China?

  • karismac

    Ahhh Carl, Yes loss of Civil rights and personal liberty, I believe you are now getting much closer to the heart of where the evil in this world now truly lies.

    It is not just in China this fear is growing but everywhere and few now even fight for it and instead hide inside themselves or fight senselessly with each other. Who ARE the advocates of globalisation? Do you even think about it? You seem intelligent and thoughtful so I guess you probably do.

    If no one wants to discuss the Zionists well maybe the ‘banksters’ are another clue.

  • Mark

    680. karismac : 659 Anyone…. Anyone at all glance at 659?

  • Carl

    Can i not call Nixon a weasel without you jumping to conclusions Mark?

    Is that the only response you could think of Mark.. really?

    Do i really have to waste my time explaining my opinion on Nixon for you? Christ.

  • Mark

    682. Carl : Can you really blatantly insult someone and not expect some defensive remarks? Conservatives read this blog too… Christ.

  • Carl

    Well Mark you may well want to address Rainer and the rest of the people on this thread that suggested Nixon as a prick. It seems you have a lot of defensive remarks to start conjuring up out of somewhere.

  • Mark

    684. Carl : Why would I adress anything at all at the troll known as Rainer? That tool suggested God – in fancy Jew words – to be the most evil MAN ever. And that every Israely leader ever should be mentioned here. Either he’s out of his mind or he’s trolling, I don’t care which it’s obviously not worth it. You on the other hand, I can appreciate your logic to an extent.

  • karismac

    Hi Mark,

    I did but I do not think you added any knowledge or anything that truly showed you had even read or considered my remarks in 655 which you were apparently responding to?

    Your comment didn’t appear to need answering because it didn’t say much, it only refuted the evidence I put before you as an apparent anomaly which it is not.

    I hear you scepticism of other peoples beliefs and that is all I hear.

    I am a conservative Mark and you should realise that not all conservatives support Bush or US imperialism many support free markets, diversity and liberty.

  • Mark

    686. karismac : I explained my position and my natural cynicism about the website.

    Go to Wikipedia, read about Zionism and all of its forms, and the main denominations of Judaism. Take careful note of Religious Zionism. That task will probably take you a while – I know it took me ages! – but once you’re done, I think you’ll understand that these Jews speaking out against Israel don’t form a majority, in fact, they don’t even consist of a notable *minority*.

    “…I am a conservative Mark and you should realise that not all conservatives support Bush or US imperialism many support free markets, diversity and liberty…”

    Conservatives can like all kinds of things, and almost every political viewpoint in a Democracy supports “liberty”, but politics is relative, so you didn’t add much to my understanding with that comment.

  • karismac

    I don’t get it Mark? You say you want to discuss Zionism and want your comment acknowledged and then you send me to Wikipedia as if you are speaking to a child?

    I obviously have some knowledge of this or I wouldn’t be here discussing this. I am also obviously interested in learning more or I wouldn’t be here discussing this. I have to get to bed now and so I can only guess what will happen overnight here while the rest of the world (LOL) is awake. BTW I am also confused why Carl was so nasty about your question about Nixon, for the record I didn’t understand where you were coming from either Carl? Anyway if you want to discuss anything that I know anything about or that I am interested in I am happy to participate (despite my horrendous schedule) but I am not a child and I as I have stated I am not really interested in hearing about your scepticism when you have no fresh ideas to offer.


  • Mark

    688. karismac : I just told you that that website you found obviously represents a small minority of Jews, which you would know if you had read as much as I have over the last couple of days/weeks about it. Sorry if I equated that with “Get her more knowledge so we can discuss further.”

    That is my point, that “Orthodox” Jewish, anti-Zionism propoganda is just that, propoganda. It shouldn’t be taken on face value and I didn’t. I’m convinced that there’s an agenda there and you act as if I’m just being condescending.

    I’m going to bed shortly too, our sleep cycles aren’t too far out of sync :)

  • Carl

    PS. Did not know Rainer was a troll so it appeared to me to be a random personal stab.

    I do stand by my views on Nixon though. Is it so strange that my opinion holds him as evil? I might add i am slightly partial to Hunter S. Thompson books.

    I think Laos does still stand as the most bombed country on earth. And I don’t think it can be denied that Nixon had nothing to do with it.

  • Mark

    690. Carl : Not the most bombed *period* Vietnam had much more explosives – in terms of mass – dumped on them than Laos did. Although Laos is a lot smaller so I see the logic there.

    If you look through history, many, many leaders have overseen forgettable incidents. We can’t blame Nixon for the political climate. Don’t forget how much of a threat Communism did present at that point in time. And of course, don’t forget who was in office when the shit hit the fan in the first place. Sure, Nixon deserves some of the blame, but so do a *lot* of others. I hardly think he qualifies as “evil”.

  • Carl

    Maybe we need a well sourced definition of evil here.

    Mark: I know this won’t change your view on Nixon but it is an interesting read, even if it is completely over the top and wacky and crazy and pessimistic. If anything, i hope you get a laugh out of it.

    Please note i did say -over the top- so there is no need to come back here burning me about blind faith.

  • oouchan

    678. Carl: I have to agree with you on many points. Mark and I argue a lot on ‘evil’. My definition is that Nixon would be evil, but Mark would be…he’s not so evil. Like there is a level of evilness. Evil is evil. There are many that are not listed but should be for one reason or another.
    (Mark…not stepping on your toes, but kinda paraphrasing our earlier conversation on this thread.. :D )

  • American

    Ayatollah Khomeini was one of the best people on Earth. May God bless him.

    May God save us from being among the ignorant.

  • karismac

    689. Mark

    If you had considered my analogy with Harry Potter you might understand already some of what I am saying. How many wizards and witches in that story were in open defiance against the death eaters? They were too scared of the death eaters leader to even speak his name.

    The ‘minority’ of Jews who do speak out you will find have many allies and their cause is in accordance with their own doctrine which states that the return of the Jews to Israel will happen by God’s doing and not by men manipulating it to happen.

    You will find that Zionism also (and you probably already know this) has a very large Christian base and many Christian supporters because the Bible predicts the return of the Jews to Jerusalem and that Islamic holy places would be destroyed and the Temple in Jerusalem would be rebuilt – signalling the very end of the Church Age when the Antichrist would arise, and all who seek to keep the covenant with God will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah in defiance of the Antichrist.

    They believe this must happen before the ‘rapture’ can take place and Christ come again to rescue his church.

    There is plenty of evidence if you want to look for it that it was the Zionists who were the real instigators of WWII because they said that “the Jews were too comfortable in Germany and would need some real encouragement to ever return to Israel (in accordance with prophesy)’. The creation of the state of Israel was the purpose of WWII. Now if these same men knew that the bible stated this return must happen by God’s hand and not by contrivance I think we should be looking for an ulterior motive here? Though they pretend it these are not men of religion but men who want world government and see religious prophesy as a great cloak for actions that otherwise would be countered by great public opposition.

    If Zionists can attempt to force biblical prophesy into reality with the return of the Jews to Israel for their own political motives then of course they could also arrange the destruction of Jerusalem and the third temple rebuilt and for that matter ‘the rise of the anti Christ’ even as one of their own? Enough Christians believe in these things to give their occurrence support and not look too closely at who is pulling the strings. I for one am not counting on Jesus to save us however and so believe wholeheartedly this situation is better exposed and seen for what it is.

    The intentions and aspirations of the Zionists have been disguised as a Jewish cause for so long because then any who oppose them can be called anti- Semitic – but Zionists spit in the faces of Orthodox Jews who oppose them in public (see YouTube) and caused much of the suffering and persecution of the Jews.

    The Zionists are certainly not all Jewish but (like many who belive in the old testimate) believe we are living in end times AND LOOK FORWARD TO bloody war and the end of this world as we know it. So I believe (that at least) their leaders should be included in this list of people who peace loving and rational people should be afraid of.

    Are you surprised it is only a handful brave enough to speak out (yet remain supported by many more who are silent) when they have seen their enemy, from within their own midst, contrive to do what was done to them in WWII in the name of contrived prophesy not only killing, injuring and turning their own people into refugees herded like cattle, but also blaspheming their own God and scriptures in the process attempting to turn prophecy to their own ends? Concentration camps existed long after the war to ensure that as many as possible Jewish refugees ended up in Israel and no where else. How could this have happened if the ‘bad guys’ had truly been conquered?

    If you are interested at all in the analogy I have given you read the Harry Potter book ‘the half blood prince’. Beyond the broom sticks and spells there is much there that will give you a clue to these lunatics true motives. Obsession with bloodline and conceit and a long history of mental illness, instability, violence and systematic rape and incest within these same bloodlines of which they are so proud. Couple this with the unimaginable wealth and reverence for duplicity that these families thrive on and you will begin to see a picture of the true evil that exists within this world. We have no idea how the ruling ‘elite’ of this world live and to assume their lives are similar to yours and mine would be very naive indeed.

    Take heed and keep a firm eye on Israel if you are looking to discover evil. Each time they make a move there is some big event in the media to draw attention away from them. You can call me whatever you will but start to notice the pattern yourself if you doubt their power and influence.

    I am back to work now and enjoy the opportunity to discuss this. I will be back later to read what ‘clues’ anyone else might add to this discussion.

    In the words of the great wise man Spock – “live long and prosper” and while you are at it have a great day (-:

  • Mister Sunshine

    Mengele was the most evil Nazi ever. Hitler was just speaker. Also Stalin never actually killed anyone himself, he got others to do it for him.

    How come there aren’t any West World villains? You seem to stay firmly in the middle world.

    I agree with Ivan the Terrible being there, he was a evil man who killed and tortured things for fun, like when he was a boy, he took puppies to the top of tall towers, dropped them off the top, and watched as they died. He also nailed a messengers hat to his head for no real reason but bad news.

  • Mom424

    karismac: Clues to your mental instability? clues as to what hospital you actually reside at? clues as to which particular piece of conspiracy hate-mail you subscribe to?

  • Carl

    @ 680. karismac: I’m sure this fear is growing everywhere but i felt i was obliged to address the, (then), current disscussion put forth by oouchan & Mark. As a matter of fact, no, i didn’t really think about it. Being a foreigner in China unfortunately leads to me picking on the Chinese government. Sometimes we need to vent frustration. And of all people, you SHOULD understand that.

    If you have seen a place with your own eyes the effect is a lot greater than from reading it from a book. And a big bonus; you actually get to interact with the people! Totalitarian countries, (past or present), i’ve been to also include Myanmar.. and cannot even begin to describe what kind of horrible state that country is in.

    As for you, you seem quite keen on a certain type of criticism yourself lately. Not that i can disagree with it.. my history is not up to scratch. I’m not sure on your motives exactly though. From your photo i cannot say where you originate from exactly.

    Although my knowledge of history is not great, i can use google. I was suspicious of Kimcoo’s first and only post from the beginning. I hope your book is selling well. And although you seem well do you need the money that bad to succumb to these shameless selling techniques?

    Have a great day


  • karismac


    I see Wayne’s post about Carl has been removed?

    If you have personal experience Carl why don’t you offer it? I was not
    disappointed that you had not commented sooner, I was actually writing
    to Mark and BTW I am not promoting a book (-:

    And MOM 424 are you always so insulting of people whose
    ideas differ from yours? I am not here for group therapy with people
    who need to get their nasties out but truly interested in
    discussing the topics that it seems a few people here have some knowledge
    about. As I have stated previously I am not certain of my ideas or I would
    not be here discussing them so if you have something different to offer why
    don’t you just do so?

    As the world focuses now on the US reserve banks apparent determination to bankrupt the US government I would think that there might be a greater
    interest in who exactly is pulling the strings towards world government and
    that we might all show some interest and concern?

  • karismac: I removed his comments because his racist language was unnecessary – he could have put his point across without it but he didn’t. If he reposts without the abuse I will let it stay.

  • karismac

    Yes thanks jfraser (-: I agree will you all the way!

  • oouchan

    700. jfrater: I really appreciate it. They were very offensive and added nothing of value.

  • karismac

    Oh and Carl, since you are snooping around looking for dirt on me
    did you see my lumosity profile? Pretty impressive stuff hey? (LOL) (-:

    OK I have to get back to my real job now (building websites)
    you all have a really wonderful and fantastic day OK?

  • Carl

    jfrater: I still can see some hideous posts, directed at myself, from Wayne on my screen, but anyway. I thought posts 557. & 590. well deserved to be removed. Not to bitch about how the system is run, but you yourself stated that 557. was a repulsive comment.

    karismac: I am offering my own personal experience, otherwise i would not be talking about China. For all i know, if i had not come to China i may well not have found this site, nor would i be posting on it.

    On another note i don’t see how directly responding to yourself under a different name and throwing up a link to your own site that is -actually- selling a book is not self promotion but maybe its just me. No, i did not see your lumosity profile, but i’m sure its nothing to ‘lol’ about. I’m sure you have come a long way Kim, but it was your method that i was disappointed by.

  • wayne1770


    Just noticed your post 625

    Western European atrocities (and yes it is reasonable to compare China to all of Western Europe, for obvious reasons – China is a civilization, just as there is a distinctive Western European civilization):

    Greatest genocide in human history (ethnic cleansing of native Americans): 100 million

    Total Chinese opium addicts resulting from Britain forcing opium onto China: 70 million

    British engineered famines in India (late 19th century): 29 million

    Americans in Phillipines: 1.4 million Filipinos massacred (out of 8 million population)

    Belgian Congo genocide in early 1900s: median estimate of about 16 million

    are just a few….I can list many many more if you want.

    Even Rudy Rummel, a rabid right-wing anti-communist jackass has been forced just recently to come out with a conservative estimate of 50 million killed by European colonialists in the 20th century alone.

    “Where exploitation of a colony’s natural resources or portering was carried out by forced labor (in effect slavery of a modern kind), as it was in all the European and Asian colonies, then the forced labor system built in its own death toll from beatings, punishment, coercion, terror, and forced deprivation….These colonizers turned Africa into one giant gulag, with each colony being like a separate camp. ” Rummel

    That is excluding things like the British killing up to 100,000 in Kenya , and the French killing about 1 million Algerians during the Algerian war of independence:

    Note that so as to avoid embarrassing you even more jfrater – I have not mentioned WWII, intra European killings, and simple military deaths and deaths from negligence and bad policy (such as New Zealand killing half of Samoas population by disease) – including these would have in fact been fair since your Chinese figures include purported events of this nature.

  • karismac

    Congratulations Carl, you have unmasked one of our writers
    nom de plume’s – but since I like you so much I will tell you that
    my name is Karen and not Kim (-:

    If anyone wants to discuss the ideas I have put forward I welcome
    it. Especially if they have a good knowledge of history and care
    to read Harry Potter “The half blood prince” I do not know history
    well enough but the story of Voldemort’s ancestry does not sound entirely
    like fiction to me. If you replace the word witch or warlock with Jew,
    especially in the story of Voldemort’s parentage (his mother was a
    ‘witch’ and his father was not) it all becomes very interesting. I would
    love someone with a good knowledge of history to see if these characters
    sound close to anyone from real life in history?

    I will add that I did not see this correlation myself. It was a Jewish
    writer who first drew my attention to the similarities of the wizards
    world in Harry Potter with the Jewish world community and I find this type
    of allegory fascinating as I guess others must because it has certainly
    kept people interested in the bible (which is chock full of allegory) for
    a long time.

  • oouchan

    705. karismac: Reading something more into the Harry Potter books is extremely silly to me. I love all of those books (have them all and read them many times now) and don’t see how they relate.
    To me, it’s insulting the books and what they stood for…which was to entertain children and adults alike.

  • karismac

    706 oouchan: I do not see how studying literature for possible intended allegory
    is insulting it. If that was the case most every biblical scholar is insulting
    the bible when they study it, because most see intended allegory in it’s
    pages, just as there was in shakespeare and most great writers works.

    If you have read the Harry Potter books and see no allegory in
    them and the story pure fiction drawn on nothing but fantasy I would
    find that disappointing in a tale so colourful and with themes so
    profound. Fiction writing has a wonderful tradition of political allegory
    that is far from insulting to it. What of Voltaire?

  • oouchan

    707. karismac: I read for entertainment value…not to pick the hidden meanings out. That defeats the purpose of reading for entertainment.

    I don’t read fiction or the bible so I don’t care if they insult that stuff. I do care about the Harry Potter books. Keep children’s books as they should be. Hidden meanings do nothing but take away from the story. I want my child to read the book to enjoy it and have fun. NOT to dissect it.

  • karismac

    I am not talking to children here but to adults.

    I also think that you will find Oouchan that young adults enjoy
    studying literature seriously and not just for fun. I find teenagers
    discussion of possible intended literary themes and allegory as
    very stimulating and from the conversations I have been privy to
    I would say they find it fun too (-:

    If stories are just stories and we are to believe history was just how
    it is set down in the history books I would find the world very flat
    (and that an insult to writers) indeed!

    Again if anyone is interested in discussing what I have offered I am
    happy to discuss this but otherwise I am finding the chit chat
    very distracting and unproductive and I am happy to pass the
    conversation on to something that does interest you all.

    Have a great day …

  • Carl

    I understand where you are coming from completely Kim, Karen, Karismac, whatever but it appears we do not have any Harry Potter scholars on hand. And I don’t think you are going to produce any by suggesting people to scuttle off and bury their heads in 600+ page books purely for for the sake of dissection. If there was to be any going back to any old classics, i’d be more interested into going back to something like Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland to be honest.

    Yes, pass the conversation.

  • oouchan

    709. karismac: I would like to point out where I see the difference in our conversation.

    Fiction = false or not true stories
    Non-Fiction = non-false or true stories

    Why bother dissecting a non-true story to fit in a true world? I am not talking about the bible or other such nonsense. I am talking about a book about a boy wizard. It was made for children. Why do adults think they need to ruin it for them? I am a 34 year old woman who enjoys reading anything sci-fi and fantasy. I do it for enjoyment and the possibilities it brings. Not to sit here and try to figure out what this passage about an evil wizard might mean to society.

    That is where we differ. If I want to discuss something rational, then I will delve into the non-fiction world. To be honest, it sounds like someone wanted to draw attention to themselves in pointing out that Harry Potter is similar to the lifestyles of real people.
    Religious groups denounced the book as evil and forbade children from reading it because it was about magic and for other such non-religious views it carried. The Jewish writer you pointed out seems to be doing the same. Pick apart this book to make it sound more evil. I am pretty sure that was not the intention of the writer to make her book evil, but just for pure enjoyment.

    You are right. This is distracting and a not needed conversation. Carl’s suggestion of Alice in Wonderland seems to be more appropriate as that wasn’t really a children’s book…not until Disney got involved.

  • karismac

    Great Oochan why don’t you and Carl have a conversation about Alice in Wonderland then and leave me out of it? I promise I won’t keep sticking my head in with my estimation of the value of your comments when I have nothing to offer on topic (-:
    and hope that you might do the same?

    Anyone interested in my previous analogy does not need to read the whole book ‘the Half Blood Prince’ just the chapters on Marvolo Gaunt’s history if they want to help me try and answer the question of whether this story is possibly meant as that of a real family or person in history? I mean Voldemort’s surname was ‘Riddle’ for goodness sake?

    I am not really interested in anyone’s opinion of whether they think anyone might or might not be interested in this. If no one responds so be it.

    Oh and of course, have a nice day…

  • oouchan

    712. karismac: I was offering an opinion on that subject and that it didn’t match anyone from history but I guess since I didn’t agree with you, it pissed you off. Your last post was quite…sarcastic? Well…

    If you are really interested in getting feedback…posting it on the Top 10 evil men list is not the way to go. You might want to try here: (it in the forums)

    About this list….

    One of my co-workers and I were discussing the recent comments made on this list about Mao and Hitler. Another co-worker jumped in and started to rant about how Hitler was mis-represented and often looked at as the bad guy.


    I about lost it on her. I wanted to ask her if she was born in a barn or something. However…as she continued to speak I realized she was a conspiracy theory nut and believed it all was a hoax. I knew these people existed but I never thought I would actually meet one. She was practically foaming at the mouth about it. I had to walk away or I might have been fired.

    Just had to share that…very weird day.

  • Carl

    I could not help but notice Wayne throwing in a non-offensive post in there. Amazing.

    Wayne, i think it was the fact that you stated in 608. “In summary the Chinese are perhaps the most peace loving people in the world.” that made jfrater respond in that way.

    ‘Total Chinese opium addicts resulting from Britain forcing opium onto China: 70 million

    Some of that information is a total crock of shit. Who, IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, would believe that Mao organized the opium addicts into communities to educate them. I mean really.. Mao.. educating drug addicts.. how ridiculous. ‘Educate’.. errrm yes sure. I think ‘eradicate’ would be a better word. And there was somewhere between 20-60 million of them ‘educated’.

  • Carl

    I found a couple of interesting links.. not about the opium wars though. I have read that Mao grew opium in the 40’s to help fund the commies but have no solid links to back that up. And although i don’t mind Mao bashing, i don’t think its true.. it may or may not be true. I do truly believe that addicts were executed at will under Mao’s reign though. I may also add, after some serious reading, that Jung Chang’s ‘Wild Swans’ is complete Mao bashing. None the less i don’t think the man should be so revered. Nor do i think he should be on every banknote. No matter how much i read i still think he should be up on that list.

    Anyway this was one of the links i was talking about;

  • oouchan

    716 Carl: Wholeheartedly agree. The total “worship” of him tends to be fanatical in the extreme.
    I did read part of Chang’s book a while back but couldn’t seem to make it through it. I am not much into “true” stories but I do agree that it had much bashing based on the reviews and the parts I read.

  • Forum Cruiser

    The list misses the worst killer in the history of mankind. Ghangis Khan killed most of Asia and has not parallel in history.

  • Carl

    Well this is very hard to prove but it would seem that the ‘Golden Shield Project’, aka Great Chinese Firewall is now blocking

    Obviously, Hong Kong, Macau & Taiwan are excluded from this internet censorship.

    I can now only access this page using Hotspot Shield which is freeware for bypassing such crude internet control. So typical really.

    You can usually tell when the Great Firewall of China has been turned on. You get this message in your browser (in my case Firefox):

    ‘Network Timeout
    The server at is taking too long to respond. The requested site did not respond to a connection request and the browser has stopped waiting for a reply.
    * Could the server be experiencing high demand or a temporary outage? Try again later.
    * Are you unable to browse other sites? Check the computer’s network connection.
    * Is your computer or network protected by a firewall or proxy? Incorrect settings can interfere with Web browsing.
    * Still having trouble? Consult your network administrator or Internet provider for assistance.’

  • Shocked

    Wow..this is crazy….. I was just doing random googling and I came across this and just…. wow…. Looking at comment 718… Ghangis Khan… interesting… I do agree though, that there are missing deadly killers… Yay, just made comment 720! Nice work here…

  • Kinda Ignorant

    Amazing! This may sound sort of duhh but I have only heard of a couple of these people! (And I believe there are many more!) I agree with the opening comment, and think it’s sad that many of the people in History are remembered for blowing up or killing people or plain bad stuff. That really sucks. I started reading the comments, until I realised how many of them there were! Ha ha ha, I’d better go now. Have fun think of evil people! :)

  • Miss Silver

    why isn’t Mugabe on the list?!

  • oouchan

    722 Miss Silver: Although Mugabe is evil, he has yet to achieve the rank the men above have.
    But if he keeps going the way he is….he will soon earn a place on this list.

  • flackenstien

    idk, where is mark david chapman?… i say he should be the #1 most eveil/hated…

    he killed john lennon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Vugar Aliyev

    There are some names that should be added to list.
    i have my own list
    1th- Stalin ( He is responsible for mass execution of political leaders, poets, writers and ordinary people)
    2nd- Hitler ( he is responsible to begin bloddy war 2)
    3rd- Bush ( he is responsible to begin wars in Iraq and in Afaganistan)
    4th- Harry S. Turmen (he responsible for atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki)
    5th- Timur ( he is resposible to commit bloody acts in Middle east)
    6th- Alexander the Great (he is responsible for bloody battles in Middle east)
    7th- Saddam ( he is responsible mass execution of Kurds and political oppenents)
    8th- Milosevich ( he is responsible mass kilings in Balkans)
    9th- Robespierre ( he is responsible for mass killings during in french revalution)
    10th- Khomeni (He is responsible to order executions of political oppenents during Islamic revalution in Iran)

    Bonus- Gorbachev- ( he is responsible to give a way internal fight in former in ussr and ordered bloody acts in Azerbaijan)

  • Tammy

    I agree with the list however I think Mao should be added on the list as well too. He killed 49 million Chinese people. I also think Kim Jong Il and his father should be on the list as well too.

  • Tammy

    I also forgot:
    Jean Kambanda and Théoneste Bagosora both for the Rwandan Genocide.
    Nicolae Ceau?escu committed genocide to his people in Romania.

  • Ivy

    The author of this list created it from his/her own perspective. I’m sure that it would be changed around 99.9% of the time if anybody else had the chance to. Those who want to post up whatever they feel is the right decision, I say that they should be entitled to their own opinion, and as for the people trying to turn everyone onto their own “side” on who should be first, etc., just shut up and let people talk. I know that this comment seems a little late, but I just wanted to post this up.

    I personally believe that the list would change all the time. The top ten isn’t enough. All of the people who have a single bad word spoken of them should be rated on a scale of 1-10, ten being a saint, one being a little devil if we’re talking about permanentness. Everyone has their faults, and while famous people’s actions are far more publicized, I believe that there are some people who possibly live down the street that are so disrespectful, so hating that they might as well be posted on this list.

    Just saying that this list is completely random. The person that created this put up their opinion to share something, and those who want to say something about the list should be free to, just as saying something about your OWN opinion isn’t a crime.

    Altogether, the reason for this comment is to prevent future spats on this page. I wanted to read some people’s thoughts, but I came across an aweful lot of rude, aggresive notes on some people’s opinions.


  • Jeremybre

    I think that Saddam should have definitely been an honorable mention, as well as Mao (he is similar to Pol Pot in what he did, only Mao did it to many more people).

    As I am sure everyone is aware, this list is completely skewed to recent times. It is hard for people to imagine how evil people were during the early ages. For example, historical books from those days are not read nearly as much as books on World War II. One thing we must remember is that in current times it is much easier to kill a large number of people than it was back in the day.

    Think about Joshua from the Battle of Jericho (he exterminated every citizen of Jericho). That is just one example of thousands (I am not historically knowledgable enough, nor is anyone, to know all of the many past mass exterminations).

    It is also important to factor in the situation under which these acts were committed. Is committing atrocities during war times the same as committing them during peace time (I personally think there is a big difference, but some very intelligent people may disagree)? Also, there are many evil people, who make $50,000 per year, but don’t have the brains, or intelligence to get into a powerful position. Therefore, their evil acts don’t have any effect on the world, so no one knows just how evil they are.

    There is also cultural bais, and victory bais. Remember victors of wars write history in a manner that suits them best. For instance, who is to say that Andrew Jackson shouldn’t have made the list for his lawless oppression of the American Native Americans.

    I think many of the people who have wrote on this board have said extremely intelligent things, and it was fascinating to read all your opinions.

    For the record, there is no way Bush even comes close to making the list (there have been millions of people more evil than him). I am not even sure that he would be considered “evil.” You have to remember that some people act with relatively good intentions, but as a result of their lack of knowledge or misfortune, “evil” things occur. I don’t know of anyone personally who feels that they will be oppressed by the Bush administration. I mean turn on the TV and everyone bashes Bush. If you said anything bad about guys like Hitler and Stalin you would have been killed within days. So, saying Bush is as evil as those guys is beyond apprehension.

  • Mohammed

    and you forgot to mention one of the bloodiest leader,what about “Ariel Sharon” ????????????
    he is always remain number 1,he is a hero,killing children,woman and age people,
    where is your JUSTICE?????

  • dazza

    here is my 10 most evil men
    10.leopold the ii
    9.attila the hun
    6.ghengis khan
    5.vladimer tepes
    3.ivan the iv
    2.adolf hitler
    1.josef stalin

  • to_sam_ja
  • Calvano IV

    you forgot one very importen person, the pope

  • MohammadReza

    You forgot “Ali Khamenei” in your list

  • Tyson

    mohammed…R U SERIOUS?!?!…u think Sharon is evil??…the man had a country to defend from from dozens of neighboring lands who wanted to wipe it off the face of the map!…he did what he had to do, but he was not at all ‘evil’!!!!!…mabe we shud have on this list the leaders of the 10-20 countries that wanted to destroy Sharon’s country and his people and caused him to be as aggressive as he was…but he IS and will ALWAYS be a hero for defending a little country no larger than New Jersey from it’s many enemies who wished it’s destruction.

    as far as this list is concerned i like it but i wud flop the top 2 and put hitler number one and stalin 2. wen u think about hitler is really responsible for the death of every single person who died during WW2(about 60 million), plus the 16 million who died int he holocaust, plus the complete demoltion of germeanies infrastructure which wud take years to recover from. plus, while stalin’s atrocities were largly based on his own paranoa(by no means making them acceptable), hitler’s were based on pure hate which imo is really the worst kind of evil.

  • bassbait

    Seeing this list just makes me feel like saying “pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot pol pot”.

  • Shay

    Where is Ghengis Kahn or Sarah Palin in this list? or Fidel Castro or Dick Cheney? or Saddam Hussien or George Bush? overall a very good list, bravo.

  • Stevie C

    I don’t think George Bush Jnr. was evil but he was certainly retarded and ineffectual.
    I believe Stalin definitely deserves the top spot, he killed more than Hitler and while Hitler was prejudice Stalin crushed all those who were opposed to him and even his own people. All of the men above have used fear as a means of controlling their societys. Stalin himself ultimately died a paranoid and lonely dictator

  • ENO

    i like this list. overall a good one.
    and the main reason is the top spot.
    stalin is responsible for killing many more than hitler.
    at least hitler glorified german race. and he was right.

    but don’t forget the “invisible hand” responsible for all wars. and is still ruling he world. hey people beware of “the new world order”.

  • rcapual

    in this world the small amount of people in power are corrupt and the outmost definition of pure undeniable EVIL the rest of us suffers bcuz we are not like them the EVIL oppress and kill while the GOOD suffers and die.

  • kSOLO


  • DJ

    Okay, turn off the CAPSLOCK and relax.
    Warts and all, the Bush administration was nothing compared to Pol Pot, to Stalin, to Hitler. America has never had a leader who could hold a candle to them. Did Bush order the deaths of 30 million dissidents like Stalin? Did he completely suspend elections like Hitler?
    Comparing Dick Cheney to Joseph Stalin or Adolph Hitler dishonors the victims of the Gulagh and the Holocaust. It dishonors the victims of World War II.
    And the same goes for conservatives who seem intent upon comparing Obama to Hitler or Stalin. You cheapen evil by comparing a milquetoast like Obama to the most evil men in history. Has anyone died under Obama? Anyone at all? Not even a federal execution. Has he “taken our guns away”? No–but keep bringing assault rifles to protests and see how long before the Secret Service freaks out, or Congress panics. Use some sense!

  • cumatac

    Wow… just wow it amazes me the short sightedness and blind patriotism, true while most on the list were famous for killing people within their borders it goes without saying the democratization or liberation of any nation in history by a foreign nation generally ends up a genocide carried out by hand picked “rulers” favorable to the “liberators” that one “leader” gets to run the nations economy as a personal piggy bank and kill anyone who dares oppose -usually in the interests of some corporation plain and simple bush and cheney (the original Penguin)deserve to be on this list. period for the mass murders commited since the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, wars in which they lied to the world to get into… that is inarguable evil plain and simple and the body count is still being tallied judges were silenced and fired, scientists were killed mysteriously no investigations into the deaths of the top biologists and scientists at all… in iraq scholars were killed anyone smart enough to put the country together without the help of the US trained puppets were murdered -we choose to ignore a lot in the face of that evil supposedly perpatrated for our safety -rofl im more afraid of this US government than i am of any in the middle east, the terrorists are our police and military unwittingly killing in the name of corporate greed -my bad fighting TERRORISM -wake up people. you were duped admit it and do something about it. honestly id like to see Vlad Draculs methods used on some of our “leaders” today -god knows they deserve it.

  • ForensicCrimes

    Great list – have you heard of the 21 Levels of Evil by Forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Michael Stone? I wonder where these top 11 would fall given their pychologic make up

  • Mindboy

    Politicians,Tsars,religious fanatics and all the others great and powerfull tend to do their evil by manipulation of their followers.Humans have done this to gain land,power,wealth and status in every part of history,among these only Vlad was 21 level.True evil for personal gratification.Andrei Chikalito is certainly one of the most evil people to have walked this planet,many others need a bullet in the head too.

  • Hero_Of_the_Beach

    What ever happened to Loose Cannon? Loved that guy and his rants!

  • Peter

    I don’t see the prophet muhammad on the list, I would have put him somewhere between Hitler and Stalin.

  • ted snyder

    I completely disagree with your bonus choice. Hirohito’s minions -like Tojo – were far worse than him. Nero, Tamerlane, Mao Zedong or some of the other Nazi leaders like Himmler or Eichmann would have been more deserving choices.

  • peace mind

    george bush should be in no one of evil person h is the biggest terrirst of the world who killed million of people in iraq and in nomber two ther should be a tony blair

  • culito


  • Lynk3us

    I only agree with the presence of leopoldII, pol pot and stalin. Not hitler because his evident mental illness was not psichopatic…

    Too, of course, necesary to add pizarro, clemenceau, churchill, bush sr &jr in one place, mao, jackson (u.s. president), bonaparte,and for bonus there are lots of hispanic conquerors, roman generals, french and british colonialist (and this obvieting a lot more that affected less beings). Ah!As another bonus it is good to add that american hero buffalo bill.

  • Doc

    I honestly think 1 and 2 should be reversed… Both were horrible evil men, but I think Hitler should get the nod as the worst simply because had it not been for the Soviets, the Germans wouldn’t have had to fight a two-fronted war and they very well could’ve won… I can’t imagine a world like that. So, at least, the Soviets did one good thing they helped America and Britain destroy the Nazis.

  • tony

    Not your best list ever. Where are chairman Mao, Eugenio Pacelli, Tamerlane, Osama bin Laden, Robert Mugabe, Richard Ramirez, Joseph Mengele? I would put them on the list before minor criminals like Vlad and Atilla, and putting Stalin as worse than Hitler reflects on your politics like it did when you claimed that the communist manifest was a worse book than Mein Kampf. Really now.

  • Mark

    @tony (753): Ramirez? Not a “minor criminal”? Compared to Vlad and Atilla? Wow…

    Your political views are also thrown right out into the open – haha – when you say something like that. I would consider myself leaning towards the right, but I’m not nationalistic or racist. Mein Kampf might be an angry, hate-filled book but we can learn stuff from literature like that.

    The Manifesto however, was the spark that ignited the flame that is the most ill-thought-out form of government in the history of mankind. It deserves contempt for its overtly optimistic attitude that managed to – indirectly – put some very, very evil people to power.

    The Great Purges

    The Great Leaps Forward

    Onya Marx :|

  • Allie

    Sadam, uday, and qusay, Husein aren’t there either

  • Jeff

    A poor selection, based on His-story. Some of them had the same masters, so why aren’t their masters named?
    Ignorant nonsense from mis-educated fools. The people behind the mis-education easily top My list!
    Seek and you may find or sleep and you stay blind.

  • khadijah

    I think agree with the person from India who said about Churchill, I mean no only the India stuff but he was a raging racist and xenophobe. You know that 70 years before Saddam, Churchill gassed not only the Kurd but what he referred to as “Recalcitrant Arabs” oh and he wanted to do it to germans too but the powers at be wouldn’t let him, among other things he did in Africa. I don’t really agree with Khomeini not argueing that he was a good person or that he wasn’t evil any number of other people could be charged with the same number of things, but really compared to Hitler and stalin, pales in comparison, Idi amin as well, evil yes but You could put any number of african dictators to the same things, I mean really whose worse Mugabe, Amin, or the leaders of the Hutu’s in rwanda? Or Khomeini, Saddam, or Islam Karimov really you want to see some evil, Karimov boils people alive just for being Muslim. And not one member of the Junta in Burma? Mao Zedong? Tomas de Torquemada? Eichmann? Himmler? Pasha? Milosevic? Ceausescu? Columbus? To many roman leaders to mention, starting with Cesar decimating gaul? Cortes, wiped out the remaining half of the aztecs? Every american up to 1860, for the death and enslavement of millions? Cromwell? Johnson? Chang Kai Shek? The french, Belgian, Dutch, english, ie european imperialists. It could go on and on.

    Not that I blame you there are millions of evil people alive today, and hundreds of millions in History it is nearly impossible to create a list, a good one, and is absolutely impossible to do a perfect one that will make everyone happy, perception of how evil something is, comes from what culture you are in, From Issues of Cannibalism to political imprisonment, etc. Now no one is going to say gee you know that person is such a nice person, no of course not but I would think that if you were on the nationalists Chinese side Zedong would be the epitome of evil and chang kai shek, similar could be said for most of the “Evil” and even “Good” people. did you for instance know that churchill killed more people in the bombing of Dresden than in hiroshima and nagasaki combined. If your native american really does Khomeini or Vald or Atilla affect you nearly as much as the US Army? I’m just saying.

  • Jeff

    @khadijah (757):
    But who was Churchill working on behalf of?
    And if you think The British Government, then who has The British Government been working for, for over 200 years?

  • Jeff

    @Mark (648):
    Mark, I noticed a comment of your’s (648)stating that
    “Zionism is against anti-Semitism”.
    If you researched a little more thoroughly, then you would understand that ZIONISM IS ANTI-SEMITISM.
    Are Palestinians not Semites? Are the majority of Zionists, who have taken over the region now called Israel, actually descended from Shem?

  • Carliske

    Where in the world is Nero!? He had Peter beheaded, killed a ton of Christians, and personally murdered his wife and mother. Not to mention he played his fiddle while Rome burned (in fact, many historians believe he started the fires).

  • abig

    Loose, I marked the page as hilarious because of the “knows-it-all# things you write. I laughed at quite a few. At least you made one person smile today.

  • kevzor

    i think heinrich himmler should be number 2,

  • kevzor

    that fucker fritzl was a different kind of evil but still impressive

  • Aishah Bowron

    I would like to see Christopher Columbus ast the number spot of the top 10 list of most evil men. I don’t like Christopher Columbus, because he is an evil blood-thirsty tyrant and he butchered and murdered hundreds of thousands of people he called Indians because he thought he sailed to the East Indies. He and his men would chop the Indian bodies up and feed them to their horses. There is even a public holiday in his honour which I want to see abolished. I wished he wasn;t born centuries ago and he should have hanged for his crimes. He is a genocidal mass murderer possessed by the Devil. It is a joke that we had to learn about him in history class. Columbus brought back Indians to Spain to show the queen that he had been to the Indies and really he is a liar because he didn’t reach the Far East at all. Columbus did not discover America, the Vikings did. Leif Eriksson reached the North American continent and is the rightful discoverer of America, Columbus is a usurper.

  • Aishah Bowron

    I would like to see Christopher Columbus at the number one spot of the top 10 list of most evil men.I don’t like Christopher Columbus, because he is an evil blood-thirsty tyrant and he butchered and murdered hundreds of thousands of people he called Indians because he thought he sailed to the East Indies. He and his men would chop the Indian bodies up and feed them to their horses. There is even a public holiday in his honour which I want to see abolished. I wished he wasn;t born centuries ago and he should have hanged for his crimes. He is a genocidal mass murderer possessed by the Devil. It is a joke that we had to learn about him in history class. Columbus brought back Indians to Spain to show the queen that he had been to the Indies and really he is a liar because he didn’t reach the Far East at all. The English, French, Dutch and Swedish explorers of America were peaceful people who traded with the Indians and left them alone and they didn‘t kill the Indians and were not greedy for gold. Columbus did not discover America, the Vikings did. Leif Eriksson reached the North American continent and is the rightful discoverer of America, Columbus is a usurper.

  • ted snyder

    # 753 cleverly disguised Pope Pius XII by calling him by his original name. By any name the guy’s dead wrong! That stuff about him being “Hitler’s POpe” is pure calumny. If any Pope had to be put on the list it would be Alexander VI.

  • ????????????

    you are wrong i am the most evil person in history!!!!!!! Mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    And why isn’t bin larden on there

  • lookiepoo

    Gilles de Rais. evil incarnate

  • Sid Debgupta

    I know Bengali lives are not considered important, but you may do well to read up on the Bangladesh genocide of 1971. Its prime perpetrators were a coterie of Paki generals, but they were influenced by an evil, cunning and Machiavellian man with no morality whatsoever, a sociopath who was later hung by another raucous general. His name was Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.

    tut tut, I forgot the west loves him and his recently martyred daughter …

  • Shane

    What about Mao? Shouldn’t be on this list somewhere?

  • Shane

    Sorry forgot to add “and not just a mention”

  • Ben

    I am utterly surprised that no mention of Khomeini’s persecution of the Baha’is is made; that should have definitely been included under the Khomeini section!

    At least he made it to the list though. He was one of the evilest men that walked the face of this earth.

  • vikram

    What about the people who nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
    And what about the Mongols Chengiz Khan and Halagu?

  • Randall

    @vikram (773):

    “What about the people who nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki?”

    And just who *were* those people, vikram, and just how were they “evil?” Care to enlighten us?

  • This list should be labeled top 25 because it’s missing Cheney, Manson, Jim Jones, Dr. Mengele and several modern monsters like Bin Laden and Iran’s current president and saddam hussein.

  • Here is my top 10 list:

    10. Bin Laden
    9. Charles Manson
    8. Jim Jones
    7. Dr. Joseph Menegele
    6. saddam hussein
    5. Dick Cheney
    4. Vlad Tepes
    3. Joseph Stalin
    2. Nero
    1. Adolf Hitler

  • didory

    People writing same BULLSHIT over and over again which eventually SOMEHOW turns into a very intense, racist, offending, discriminating and TIME-WASTING, POINTLESS web arguments.

    Downright sad.

    Who gives a crap if some asshole is Bush’s bitch?
    Who gives a damn if some dude thinks Bush and Cheney is eviler than the other mental people on the list?
    I admire your meaningless persistence on trying to be right and attacking others just because they don’t agree with your shit(cough cough, Loose Cannon; Wayne. At least bucslim knows where to stop).

  • Vassili

    Ioseph Vissarionovich Djugashvili was in no way a villain. Lies and propoganda of the capitalist countries and anti-communists of the world have sullied the great reputation of a man who saved not only Russia but the entire world.

  • kendoig

    Did you notice that ALL these evil men were part of or the leader of a “government”? Governments always commit the greatest evil know to mankind, yet we Americans are willing to give up our rights to authortarian/statist parties,be they left- or rightwing, dem or rep. Wake up America, vote Libertarian

  • Scratch

    Duuude, that is sooo true!

    You know what else? All of these guys wore shoes or sandals – those are totally evil too. Every one should go barefoot.

    And then we can all elect libertarians who will NOT form a government or wear shoes.

  • I think it’s interesting that I’d only heard of two on the evil women list, but I have at least basic knowledge of all the men on this list. Is it because they were more evil or because men get more attention through history? Or because I am uneducated? That is always a possibility.

  • Armodillotron

    Where is Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic?

  • Rolf

    Mehtinks mother teresa deserved to have been no. 1 on that list. She caused through her charity thousands of deaths per year most by means of refusal of treatment for minor ailments in the face of all medical evidence.

  • platypusman 8

    Dick Cheney!!!! any guy who can shoot someone and then have that person the next day, with buckshot still in their face, apologize for being shot. that guy gets my vote. what an as*hole!

  • Davy

    @platypusman 8 (784): If anyone’s an asshole then it’s you.

  • murtaza

    i now have read all of the 785 comments … it took some time … and i now feel that i need to present to you my humble opinion : all those names of EVIL MEN you are all discussing , they are only evil so all this evil thing was expected … BUT … what we really have to fear is GOOD MEN AND THEIR INTENTIONS … men who think that it is their GOD-GIVEN right to take responsability for others…but whatever this is only my opinion … GOD bless you and have a nice day

  • murtaza

    one last thing : let us not accuse each others of being assholes … let us all agree that their are some assholes in this world and the world would probably be a better place without those possibally assholes … god bless you all and have a nice day

  • Ted

    @Wayne1770 (583): Are you saying that Roosevelt new of the planned attack on Pearl Harbor?

  • wiseman

    all men of the world are evil in thier own ways there are many more ppl in hitsory worse or equal in the joyous killing spree do

  • that guy

    common add dick cheney

  • jim mullin

    This is a stupid agrument because bush was just as bad so was chaney. Also obama and all americans in general. Suck it USA

  • Andres

    @jim mullin (791): Ouch, that really hurt! I’m not going to be able to sleep tonight! Your arguments are so bright they’re blinding me!

  • Ro

    Well i would just like to point out that we all have very different political beliefs than one another and so respect is something we should portray, unlike many of these “most evil people in history did” some on the more conservative and right wing people may believe that fidel castro, che guevara lenin and more of the left winged revolutionaries were more evil meanwhile people like me more on the left wing belive the bush administration and so on are more evil and did more harm yet i keep an open mind trying to respect the believes of everyone. If you believe that what these people did are soo bad try not to do the same rememeber it all starts off with a closed minded person not listening to other perspective and later getting extream about their beliefs no matter what it is about(dont get me wrong, im sure none of you will kill a mass majority of people lol) but what im getting at is each and every one of thoes politians listed above were evil in equal aspects because they killed a mass majority of people because of their extream believes. There is no list of “the evil people” and “who is more evil than the other” in my point of view, when someone is evil, they are a bunch of messed up people that kill to make a point yet some are more insane then others that point it true. just pointing out not to disrespect others beliefs and opinions–thxx srry for the essay ahha

  • monty

    People seem to forget all about Mao Tse Tung and the millions of Chinese citizens that gang of four killed.

  • Fanglõre

    Dick Cheney? Really?

    I agree… the man is as A§§HATE but seriously??? You want to compare American politicians to purely evil men in this world? DO some research into the Clinton family, Bush Family, Rockefeller Family, Rothschild Family… it’ll blow your minds!

  • Ro

    Cheney is preety evil in my opinion!! he is a warlord and he wasnt in the current media as much as lets say other more hated left winged radicals, however he was preety extream, closed minded and his ideas were not peaceful in any circumstance, so i dont know how some dont consider him very evil, maybe not as evil as lets say Hilter, but he wasnt a very good man either considering all the hate and war loving beliefs he had. Im sorry but in my perspective someone that wants ongoing war is somewhat of an evil person. Please note that this is my opinion and i mean no disrespect to anyone that may differ with this ideology.

  • Chanchita


  • Annamarie

    I personally think Hitler should be #1 and Stalin be #2

  • ted snyder

    How about Philip IV of France? Even allowing for the fact that Boniface VIII was a disagreeable Pope, what Philip did to him was inexcusable. Not to mention that he may have poisoned Benedict XI, and his horrific treatment of the Templars for no other reason than he coveted their wealth. This guy was a Gallic Nero!

  • labaria

    This list will always be controversial: it should be who killed the most people or who was the most wicked. Clovis’ descendants, the Merovingians, were a bunch of no good cut-throats murdering thugs who sometimes killed their own mothers.

  • Rico

    What about Napolean and Genghis Kahn?

  • Rico

    Ted Bundy, Elizabeth Bathory, Jack the Ripper, Albert Fish, Nero…

  • Pingback: Who will be the most hated person in history? « Probaway – Life Hacks()

  • Mire3500

    and arnold schwarzenegger?
    didn’t count but he killed a lot of people…serial mass murderer!

  • Cathy Brady

    They forgot Mao

  • chris

    they forgot every communist that has ever lived on this planet

  • David

    None of these people are “Evil.” there just tyrants or religous fanatics. Dictator`s, the prime example probably Stalin, become corrupted by power, and try to hold onto that power, by whatever means possible. or there mentally ill-Hitler-as we all know was a fucking lunatic, is now thought to have had syphilis-a disease that drives a man crazy. Henry VIII and Ivan the Terrible are also thought to have had it. And it`s just ridiculous that Russians defend Stalin, and China Mao. What-he helped defeat the Nazis? Er-no. It was the Russian Generals, such as Zuckov, who beat Nazi lowlifes. And as thanks for what the Russian heroes had done in defeating Nazi Germany, he sent them to the Gulags. And remember how he didn`t listen, when people said Hitler was going to invade? He didn`t listen, he thought it was a trick, and as a result, millions of Russians died. And Putin is trying to convince people this man was a great hero. And China say “Mao was a great ruler.” The great ruler, who starved tens of millions of Chinese to death, in a man-made famine-the “Great Leap Forward,” it was called. Their`s being a great leader. Can you imagine what would happen if a German defended Hitler? He/she would be thrown in jail. But then again, one`s man`s tyrant, is another man`s hero. Mongolians like Genghis Khan, Romanians like Vlad the Impaler, and Uzbeks Tamerlane-another monster.

  • sick&tired

    Firstly, I can’t stand americans, who put the leaders of our country (even if we disagree with them), specifically Bush and Cheney, are insane. I’m tired of all the bs out there. I’m was not a fan of the Bush administration, but that doesn’t make there decisions evil. I can’t believe that people even compare Bush to these people. Now I agree with most the people on this list (exspecially glad that Robespierre finally made the list) but there are many important evil men missing as well. I would add Mao, and instead of putting Bin Laden and Stalin and Hitler, I’d put would generalize them, because their followers were just as evil and insane, into Al-Qaeda + Taliban & the Nazi and Communist Parties. Evil Roman Emperors are also missing from the list, such as Caligula and Nero. I also believe all dictators should be put on the list (other than Cinncinatus, if you don’t know who he is, I’d read up on the history of the Roman Republic). Also, I would classify Serial Killers in its own category, its own list.

  • rush

    wow and there all republicans! go figure

  • Wilde!

    Genghis Khan should definitely be up there.

    Churchill should have been put on the honourable mentions list next to Cromwell too.

  • theflyguy

    wow the argument has gone from hitler to A bombs. wasnt the A bomb dropped in retaliation to pearl harbour? lets rathger compare hitler to Mugabe shall we, as apposed to bush. Bush is just a power hungry fag that cant compare to The Evil mindset that is Mugabe . Mugabe has created a genocied in Zimbabwe he has killed millions , he has taken what is not his. his country currency is so week they added extra zeros to strengthen it. there is no food money or fuel. zimbabwe has gone to shit yet Mugabe lives in a multimillion dollar house and has many around the world. i’d say he’s a bigger evil then wat is on the list as this evil remains today after over 20 yrs of a terror rain. Fags the lot S.A is the way!!!

  • John

    In a few year`s time, Hitler won`t be seen as “The Most Evil Man Ever.” He`ll be seen by Germany (and the world)as a great hero. When he was a child, he was short and ugly, he was beaten by his Dad Alois Schicklgrubber, he came from nowhere, he turned Germany which had been ruined by W W One, into a military power, he tried to rid the world of Communism, which killed TEN`S of million`s, and he wanted to rid the world of global Jewry and Zionism. So how is he meant to be evil?

  • Arnold Assface

    these guys r some bad dudes

  • , ,b bb

    where the heck is Osama bin laden

  • Napoleon Bonaparte

    This list is well researched but extremely controversial. Where is mad old George III?

  • Shamrock

    I was so glad to see Hirohito on this list. So many people are unaware of the Japanese crimes

  • Bush + Cheney

    Hitler was not such a bad guy he was just a german patriot. We are all racist in a way we just dont admit it.

  • bear

    generally i agree but hitler should be first and osoma bin laden kollek sheak mohomed and saddam huessein need to be up there

  • Cj

    What?! But I thought Adolf Hitler is the first one!!! Man, I can’t believe what Vlad Tepes did…

    • Radu Vis

      u r just a stupid fuck. Vlad did nothing. whatever u think u know about him is pure Hollywood. nobody knows exactly what Vlad did. It is pure mythology. read history before posting shit like this

  • David

    Vlad the Impaler was a good guy! He killed the Muslim Ottoman Turks. Now try and imagine Islamic fundamentalists getting what they want-an “Islamic Empire.” That`s what The Ottoman Empire was. The Ottoman Turks conquered the Balkans, such as Serbia and Bosnia, that`s why their`s still Muslims there today. Also the Ottoman Sultans were genocidal killers. Abdul Hamid massacred the Armenians, then during World War One, The “Young Turks,” or “Three Pasha`s,” commited genocide against Armenians and Assyrians. So how can killing Jihadist fanatics, be evil? He realized that to beat the Turks, who were sadistic bastards, he had to be crueler than they were! We could do with him today.

  • fogot to remember

    well one thing I would like to say is, the people who commented on the bush admenistration and said that they belong on this list your opinion is considered (here in america) to one of complete ignorence, a complete lack of moral compass, and absurd beyond the help of any theripist, therefor you should be sent to a place where you will never see the light of day. your not only the type of person whos way of thinking started wars and geneside but your way of thinking could possibly put the united states at risk. so do us a favor and make like hitler and shoot your self in the head.

    that have been said the list is great and if you are against discrimination, racism, gangs and colts join the soon to be peace keepers vendettas we are not a colt, covet, gang, or any negative things of that sort we simply are the ones who will bring the brotherhood the kkk the panthers and and racists to their knees once and for all love your god love the human race join and be free comment this to find out how to become one

  • fogot to remember

    the vendettas are not vegans but we will accept them any one who wants to join that has not joined any type of groupe that has a bad rep if your gay we dont care if your black so what if your arab we wolt judge we descriminate against no one but those who do wrong if you worship a carrot you can join if your god is allah u can too it doesnt matter oure main goal is to take out the tyranny at hand and that is racism whether through violence or peace this world is gotten to bad so we will exterminate the gangs and raceist groupes once and for all we will put them in jail and i have enough money to build a island and put a special prison on it a prison so big that all of ohio could fit in and we can build two or three i can make it happen join and be free love your god love the human race Vendetta for a future where blacks jews arabs whites poor rich or any one for that matter will not have to live in fear of being scared of picked on killed just because of who you are comment for complete details and rules for join

  • fogot to remember

    Sylvester Scott and Vincent Owens should be in this list if you dont know who they are they are the creators or OG’s of the pirus or better know as the bloods which are responsible for the death of millions and thats just on the streets of america not including the prisons or those in the war kil as a blood for bloods their are bloods in other countrys as well canada and thos nations under the protection of the u.s.a . death to racism Vendettas join and be free

  • forgot to remember

    my name forgot to remember sorry if i offended any one Vendettas are not ones to discreminate because your gay Vendetta join and be free

  • forgot to remember

    well about the list i must say stalin and hitler should be on a different list how about the most phycopathic fuck ups the wold had ever seen

  • forgot to remember

    top ten list by Vendettas
    1.hitler-you already know
    2.stalin-same here
    3.r.p.f rwanda patriotic front-10 years has passed since one of the bloodiest and certainly the quickest genocide in world history. Approximately 1 million people were brutally slaughtered within 100 days. That is 1 person killed every tenth second! Today the Rwandans are understandably focused on healing the nation and getting back to normal living conditions, but there are many lessons to learn for all of us -also outside Africa
    4.Kim Il-sung-an absolute communist dictator who has turned his country into an Orwellian state. People were so tightly controlled in all their activities, and those visitors that were allowed in were so managed, that comparatively little independent information about the regime’s purges, executions, and concentration and forced labor camps filtered out of the country. Nonetheless, through defectors, escapees, agents, Korean War refugees, and analyses of Korean publications and documents, a hazy picture emerges of systematic democide little different than that carried out in the first decades of the Soviet Union or early communist China.
    Perhaps from 710,000 to slightly over 3,500,000 people have been murdered, with a mid-estimate of almost 1,600,000. But these figures are little more than educated guesses
    5.Mao Zedong-Mao Zedong’s actions in China resulted in the deaths of between 40 and 75 million people. But, Mao Zedong’s policies further expanded his death toll to 100 million
    6.saddam hussein-Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqi and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranian combatants killed and Approximately 500,000 Iraqian children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War.
    7.andrew Kehoe-Read the tale of the Bath School Disaster which left 45 people dead and 58 injured; Kehoe had no WalMart, he had no automatic pistols, but he did have a persecution complex, an enormous, fragile ego, an obsessive need for control and low competence for exercising it, and several tons of dynamite and pyrotol.
    8.Ed Gein- One of the five worst serial killers in modern US history who has inspired horror movies is Ed Gein. While he was only ever convicted of two murders, it is believed that Gein killed many more. Items that were found during an investigation of Ed Gein’s house included human skulls that were placed as bed corner posts and various items, such as lamp shades socks made from human flesh. Some of the fictionalized characters that Ed Gein inspired include Norman Bates from Psycho, Jame Gumb from The Silence of the Lambs, and Leatherface from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre
    9.. Napoleon III – the arrogant french emperor played right into Bismarck’s hands leading up to one of the worst defeats in french history.
    10.John Wilkes Booth- assasinated lincoln
    hope you all learned somthing today and now you know why vendettas are forming and you can and will over the next 100 years see the complete deteiriation of people like this

  • Roger

    Bush was the most evil of them all. He was a crooked prick that made Nixon look like the tooth fairy. Bear in mind, Nixon used to swill Gin from a conical flask & had the heart of a deseased rodent.

  • Donal Clancy

    I would certainly put Oliver Cromwell way up on the list. “The butcher” as he is known. The thousands he slaughtered in Ireland, hanging, drawing and quartering the men, women and children on the streets of Drogheda, Wexford etc. surely makes him a winner. And he even murdered his own king of England.

  • Armodillotron

    Oliver Cromwell evil? Don`t be silly. This-“The Butcher of Ireland,” is just out of Irish hate for England. You can`t judge someone from that time, by the standards of today. In the 17th Century, there was no such thing as “war-crimes.”

  • Tracerx

    Pretty good list, but Mao Zedong should be at the top. His rise to power was very similar to Stallins, and the numbers were larger and torture was more barbaric.

    Roman rulers were also barbaric at times, but the number of casualties just do not stand up to Hitler, Stallin and Mao. You can say that there are rulers in Africa that might compare in the numbers department, but outside of their borders, they are relatively unknown, and has little impact on the world scene. I hate to say it that way, as who am I to discount the life of anyone who has been brutally oppressed, but you have to come up with a standard somehow.

    BTW, where should Saddam Hussein rank? Between Vlad and Ivan?

  • Gladiator

    What about Peter “Brains” Bryan, who`s beaten people to death and has eaten their brains with curry and chips? Or Josef Fritzl.. Now THEIR`S a monster!

  • JoeyBoy

    Where’s Mao !?

  • Nameless

    Yea where’s mao? i would post like dick cheney bush and his friends right before stalin or maybe after if there’s someone even more responsible for all the shit they’ve caused this world. Armodillotron, just because the term war crimes didn’t exist, didn’t mean that it actually existed.

  • Nameless

    And when i said dick cheney bush, rove etc i forgot about iraq, haha.

  • Gladiator

    George Bush is just a fucking idiot. He`s not evil. I actually miss him.. He was funny as hell. It`s Dick Cheney who`s the evil one. He was “the power behind the throne.” Invasion of Iraq, waterboarding, Guantanomo Bay, redition flights.. Remember when he said, “We gotta go to the Dark Side,” when he refered to torture? The guy shold be tried.

  • military_strategist

    Actually, Mao Zedong and Genghis Khan killed far more people than any of the people on this list, including Hitler and Stalin.

  • SuckotheClown

    I’m actually kindof upset Stalin is on the top of the list. although insane definitely not the most evil. You have to consider the number of people who lived in the USSR and the systems they put in place. Most of them were regional, and a good number of the men and women in these regional governments were corrupt. Stalin isn’t completely to blame for all the deaths that occurred during the Soviet Era. Hitler on the other hand targeted a specific people, and those orders were handed down from the top. On top of that World War II would have ended much differently if the Soviet Union wasn’t on our side. Look up some statistics and compare how many Soviets died compared to Americans or British. We probably wouldn’t have won the war without the Soviet Union.

    Besides, I would rather go to a Soviet work camp, than a Nazi death camp any day. People could survive the gulags because they weren’t gassing 15,000 people a day.

    AND all the blame can’t be put on these men for evil acts. look at all the people who watched it happen. Collaboration through silence. What’s more evil?

    these guys are great scapegoats for entire generations of people, but the bottom line is if something like this is happening people should stand up and fight it, not sit back and watch.


  • SuckotheClown

    Plus where the hell is Luke Skywalker? That terrorist blew up a government installation and killed thousands of government employees.

  • Ed

    Just one name belongs in this list and his name is Simon Cowell

  • Ed

    Well I think Karl Marx needs to be on this list for building the foundation for leaders like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro and who ever comes in next with their Communist idealism that only leads to suppresing it’s people in the name of fairness to creating a society of sheep.

  • SuckotheClown

    but you have to remember that the communism karl marx wrote about isn’t the communism that is implemented by these leaders. They have warped his image by being complete fucksticks. .

  • Armodillotron

    I agree with SockotheClown. Stalin wasn`t evil. He was just influenced by murderous thugs who encouraged him to do evil things. It was Lazar Kaganovich a Ukrainian, and Genrikh Yagoda, who were responsible for the Ukraine famine the Cheka, NKVD, and Gulags. So lets leave Stalin alone.

  • Brian Gates

    Immanuel Kant

  • Carl

    I am also upset Stalin is on top of the list. Hitler ran a pure death cult and deserves to no. 1 hands down. Stalin should be, in a well deserved, second place on this list. I think this list should be confined to the 20th century.

    Did I say Nixon?

  • wainy

    hitler should have been 1st not stalin. and i think ghengas kahn should have been in the list

  • Gladiator

    Chemical Ali, Saddam`s cousin who was hung a few days ago(rip), was he evil?

  • Eliin

    Where’s Genghis Khan? :) I think his evilness is much enough to fit in a top 10 list!

  • Armodillotron

    Genghis Khan killed these islamic fundamentalist scumbags. So how is he evil? Sure he destroyed entire cities, killed in the tens of millions, but things were different then. There was none of the “political correct,” crap that we have today.

  • Armodillotron

    Genghis Khan was a good guy! sure, killing in the tens of millions was bad, and destroying everything in his path was bad, but that was allowed then. It`s only the political correct idiots who say he was a butcher. and He conquered Afhganistan. Something Barack “peace prize,”Obama can`t do. So how is he evil?

  • black crayon

    and where is Gilles De Rais? the French leader who was convicted of socery and the murder and the sexual abuse of a shit load of children?

  • Toby

    PLEASE READ: i would recon Christopher Columbus was one of the unthinking evilist man. besides, what we thought to be him discovering america ended up him wiping out the natives with plague and disease, also bring back tobacco which still today the deaths is unbelievable(yet he kills from the grave) haha i recon we should bang him up there as 1st!

  • US

    Khomeini was a great leader, whoever put his name up here,is a racist, ignorant person.
    Im not Irani, but i greatly respect this man.God Bless Him.

  • L

    Where is Shimon Peres. He should be

  • I wouldn’t consider Vlad Tepes as “evil”. I mean, during his reign there is a legend that someone forgot a bag full of money on a countryside road, returned the next the day and the bag was untouched.
    And another legend would be that at every crossroad fountain, there was a coup made of gold from which people would dring water. When a woman saw that the coup was stolen, then she knew that Vlad wad no longer the ruler.

    What I wanted to say is that his methods were very brutal, but hey, effective ! And the bastards deserve it wtf…

  • Armodillotron

    That`s right about Vlad the Impaler. He put a Gold Cup near a well, where everyone drank from. And everyone put it back once they`d finished. Otherwise they`d have been impaled. And you`re right-the muslim bastards deserved it.

  • oldernwiser

    I have read about 100 of these posts and am quite disappointed with most. In the recorded history of the world, there has only been approximately 20 years of accumulated peace. This being said, wars/killings have occured around the globe by every race, religion, country, region, etc. To waste time debating who is/was worse than whom is pointless. What is important is that everyone use the best of their nation’s/religious laws to advocate that they don’t repeat. Unfortunately, by nature, man’s makes this most difficult. Make a difference by making an example.

  • oldernwiser

    Second to last line, “greed” was omitted. It should have read, “Unfortunately, by nature, man’s greed makes this most difficult.”
    Sorry for the misprint.

  • Armodillotron

    For God`s sake, theres ALWAYS going to be war, and evil people. It`s been that way since A