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Top 10 Least Densely Populated Nations

astraya . . . Comments

Some time ago the List Universe published a list of the 10 most densely population countries or territories of the world. By way of comparison, here are the 10 least densely populated countries or territories.
(note: different sources give different figures, so there may be some discrepancies)

10

Mauritania

500 A9Caafda1Bdb5A67E8Db90F2Fc0201C0

population 3,068,742; area 1,025,520 km2; density 3.0 people/km2

The Islamic Republic of Mauritania is a country in northwest Africa, bordered by the Atlantic Ocean on the west, Senegal on the southwest, Mali on the southeast and east, Algeria on the northeast, and the Morocco-controlled Western Sahara (about which more later) on the northwest. In an area roughly the size of Ontario or Egypt there are 3 million people and not much else.

9

Iceland

Iceland

population 309,672; area 103,000 km2; density 3.0 people/km2

The Republic of Iceland is an island country in Northern Europe, located in the North Atlantic Ocean between mainland Europe and Greenland (about which more later). In an area roughly the size of Kentucky or the former East Germany there are 300,000 people and a lot of geezers (or maybe geysers).


8

Suriname

Photo Lg Suriname

population 449,238; area 163,820 km2; density 2.7 people/km2

The Republic of Suriname is a country in northern South America, bordered by Guyana to the west, Brazil to the south, French Guiana (about which more later) to the east and the Atlantic ocean to the north. In an area roughly the size of Wisconsin or Tunisia there are 450,000 people and possibly more languages spoken than in any comparable country.

7

Australia

Picture 2-39

population 21,050,000; area 7,682,300; density 2.6 people/km2

The Commonwealth of Australia is a continent island country located between the Indian and Pacific Oceans. In an area roughly the size of the contiguous 48 states of the USA or almost twice the area of the European Union, there are 21 million people and the world’s most venomous snakes. Two-thirds of the people live in 5 major cities, all located on the coast. Very few of the snakes do.

6

Namibia

Namibia Driving Pictures

population 2,031,252; area 824,292 km2; density 2.5 people/km2

The Republic of Namibia is a country in south-west Africa, bordered by the Atlantic Ocean to the west, South Africa to the south, Botswana to the east and Angola to the north. In an area roughly the size of Ontario or Pakistan there are 2 million people and massive problem with HIV/AIDS.

5

French Guiana
France

Devils-Island

population 187,056; area 90,000 km2; density 2.1 people/km2

La Region Guyane is an overseas department of France, located on the northern coast of South America, bordered by Suriname (see number 8) to the west, Brazil to the south-west and the Atlantic ocean to the north. Like the other overseas departments, French Guiana is also an overseas region of France, one of the 26 regions of France, and is an integral part of the French Republic. In an area roughly the size of Maine or Portugal, there are 187,000 people and the spaceport used by the European space agency.


4

Mongolia

050816 Travel Mongolia Hmed.Hmedium

population 2,646,487; area 1,564,116 km2; density 1.7 people/km2

Mongol Uls is a landlocked country between Russia and China in Central/East Asia. It is the world’s second largest landlocked country (after Kazakhstan) and the least densely populated independent country. In an area roughly the size of Quebec or Iran, there are 2.6 million people and the world’s smallest stock exchange.

3

Western Sahara
Morocco

Western Sahara

population 440,000; area 266,000 km2; density 1.3 people/km2

as-?a?r?’ al-Gharb?yah is a territory in North Africa, bordered by Morocco to the north, Algeria in the northeast, Mauritania to the east and south, and the Atlantic Ocean to the west. The Kingdom of Morocco and the Polisario Front independence movement (and government of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic) dispute control of the territory. In an area roughly the size of Colorado or New Zealand there are 440,000 people, a lot of sand and not much water.


2

Falkland Islands
United Kingdom

Carcass Panoramic 0897  0896

population 3,060; area 12,173 km2; density 0.25 people/km2

The Falkland Islands are a group of two main islands and 776 smaller islands in the South Atlantic Ocean, 480 km from the coast of Argentina. The islands are a self-governing Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom, but have been the subject of a claim to sovereignty by Argentina since the re-establishment of British rule in 1833. In an area roughly the size of Connecticut or Northern Ireland there are 3,000 people and 583,000 sheep.

1

Greenland
Denmark

Greenland Town

population 56,916; area 2,175,600 km2; density 0.026 people/km2

Grønland / Kalaallit Nunaat is an ice-covered island between the Arctic and Atlantic Oceans, lying to the north-east of Canada. It is the world’s largest island and is a self-governing province of Denmark. Though geographically a part of North America, Greenland is politically and historically associated with Europe, specifically Iceland, Norway, and Denmark. In an area larger than Alaska and roughly the size of Saudi Arabia there are 57,000 people and 2.85 million km3 of ice.

This article is licensed under the GFDL because it contains quotations from Wikipedia.

Contributor: astraya



  • Smeghead

    Which genius decided to name an ice covered island Greenland

    • Greenshoes

      It was green as recently as 1100AD.

    • teddylingus

      I don't know if you're joking, but Greenland has nothing to do with it being green. It comes from the Viking word Gronland (with the little line through the O) which means Ground.
      As in Ground Land.
      Iceland means East land, as in, east is land. It has nothing to do with ice.

      • Sam Franks

        Teddylingus: I don't know if YOU're joking, but I hope to God you are! You obviously have NO bloody clue what you're talking about, stop polluting people's minds with stuff have obviously know very little about.

        Greenland does indeed stem from the danish "Grønland", and being that danes were also vikings once, I guess you earn a point in that regard.
        However …
        The word "grøn" has one meaning, and one meaning only – green! The colour, green.

        The name was given after Erik the Red (gungho viking warrior and chieftain) was exiled from Norway, then Iceland, and landed on a country with verdant rolling hills and gently sloping valleys covered in green grass. The Greenland coastline is, contrary to popular belief, not covered in ice and snow all year round – only the inland stays that way.
        So, arriving in the summertime would see you greeted by a slightly chilled, but green land.
        Hence a very obvious name – Greenland!

        Iceland was named in the same manner, only by settlers who went visiting over the winter part of the year and found everything covered in snow and ice.
        It's all very simple really, so simple infact that many people don't think it can be so.

        Also, the danish word for "ground" is "jord."
        Or if we must find a slightly similar word in regards to looking like the word "ground", "grund" would do the trick, but refers more to a specific lot of land than, say, terra firma.
        Likewise, the danish ord for "east" is "øst", and has nothing to do with Iceland being "East Land" – seriously, where do you get this stuff!? Stop making up sh*t!

    • wawan

      because Iceland is already taken

    • B.j.

      Well, smart-ass, when the Vikings came to that land, they did not want others to come take the green land over so they called it Iceland.

  • Camico

    YEAH AUSSIE PRIDE.

    Greenland and Iceland should swap names, then all the confusion would be ended :D

    • jackjeck

      how is it aussie pride when you are one of the least densely populated countries in the world? Should it not be the opposite?

  • Ginger

    First comment! Yay.
    Stupid Australia, good for nothing.

    • Dalek6450

      I’m from Australia. What country you from, then?

  • hill

    I like geographical lists, interesting.

  • ohrmets

    Nice quality list! Good pictures, too.

  • sugen

    I like this list…at least i am one to the top 5 to comment

  • Toolhead

    YEAH! Go Australia (no I’m not Australian, but I’m not a prick like Ginger either.)

  • Smeghead: funnily enough, Greenland is mostly covered in ice, and Iceland is mostly green! Bizarre! I can see a new list forming….

  • Lynn in Oregon

    I read somewhere that Iceland was named that way to keep invaders away. I guess the thinking was that no one wants to take over an iceberg.

    Nice list Astraya and Jfrater, thanks for the brain food :)

  • maximuz04

    Id like to point out how this list says “…populated nations” while half of these arent independent nations including:
    -greenland
    -western sahara
    -the flakans
    -suriname
    -french guinea
    Should be least densely populated “territories” or “regions”

    Either way a very good list… I wanna visit the guineas some time soon, look beautiful!

    Furthermore I was doing some research a few weeks ago, does anyone realize that the Mongols, when they conquered most of the world, had only about 200,000 people total? This is kinda crazy!!!

  • j

    no wonder no one lives in greenland. . .look at the state of the houses.tis like a kids tv show or something with the bright colours

  • TouchOneTouchAll

    Aussies can take pride in being such a sparsely populated country yet achieving so much.

  • storm_shadow

    j – they need the brightly coloured houses to counteract the depressingly icy landscape!

  • paulyt

    Australia is the World’s largest island, not Greenland. It is also a country and continent so why was “island continent” crossed out?

    Even the Wikipedia article about Greenland which has been copy/pasted for this list says “Greenland is, by area, the world’s largest island which is not a continent in its own right.”

  • Teapixie

    I was wondering the same thing paulyt. Maybe someone was having a Sarah Palin moment.

  • danielle

    AUSSIE PRIDE
    I knew we’d be on there ;)

    The best story about the relative size of our sparsely populated country – Europeans don’t realise it takes 12? 13? hours to reach Sydney from Melbourne…
    Not like everywhere else where you can practically drive to the next country in a few hours… ahh Europe.

  • Nik-A-Dik

    Yayy!!! An astraya list after a long time.
    Nice!! very nice!!!
    Keep it comin mate
    The fact is not the facts that are listed above but the humour that is sparsed in it….. Or something like that

  • astraya

    Thanks for the photos, Jamie. Gosh, that was quick work.
    Thanks for the comments so far.

    1) I thought about restricting the list to fully independent countries, but included the territories because I thought that the first list included Macau, Hong Kong etc. I just checked and it doesn’t. .

    2) Australia is a continent. Greenland is an island. That is irrelevent to this list. There has always been debate about Australia’s geographical status, which is why I struck through those words.

    Possibly Greenland was named to entice settlers (possibly from Iceland). The wikipedia article mentions that the southern part of the island is ice-free, and is actually green in summer.

    Ginger: I toyed with the idea of writing an over-the-top description of the natural and built environments of Australia and the good looks/intelligence/humour/generosity etc etc etc of its people, but decided not to, out of modesty, even though it’s true.

    danielle: I often point out to Koreans how big Australia is. One student mentioned catching a bus from Sydney to Byron Bay, which took about 14 hours. I measured that on a map and ended up somewhere around Vladivostok.

    Two typos: the first sentence of the introduction should read “the 10 most densely populated countries …”. Item number 5 should be “Suriname [bracket] see number 8 [end bracket]”. The system interprets “8 – end bracket” as a smily face, which is nice, but potentially confusing.

  • grok

    No, Ostrayan not stupid….
    they just racist

  • Polymath

    Hey I like how it has continent island striked out. It empasises that they don’t know what they are. But being a New Zealander seeing you Aussies in any list that we are not is just not on. Thumbs down from me….lol

  • Polymath

    I toyed with the idea of writing an over-the-top description of the natural and built environments of Australia and the good looks/intelligence/humour/generosity etc etc etc of its people, but decided not to, out of modesty, even though it’s true.

    Oh…pleeeeeaase…gag..hahaha

    All good.

  • Pyderz

    Them Houses in Greenland look discusting

    • Our Jo

      whereas, your spelling looks awesome.

  • astraya

    grok: No, Ostrayan not stupid….
    they just racist

    Which goes a long way towards explaining why I am currently living and working in Korea and married a Korean woman earlier this year.

  • ronsantohof

    During the MVP (Medieval Warm Period) Greenland was green: Data from ice cores indicate that between AD 800 and 1300 the regions around the fjords of southern Greenland experienced a relatively mild climate, with growing trees and herbaceous plants and farming of livestock.

    The name Greenland comes from Scandinavian settlers. In the Icelandic sagas, it is said that Norwegian-born Erik the Red was exiled from Iceland for murder. He, along with his extended family and thralls, set out in ships to find the land that was rumoured to be to the northwest. After settling there, he named the land Grænland (“Greenland”).[19] Greenland was also called Gruntland (“Ground-land”) and Engronelant (or Engroneland) on early maps. Whether green is an erroneous transcription of grunt (“ground”), which refers to shallow bays, or vice versa, is not known. It should also be noted, however, that the southern portion of Greenland (not covered by glacier) is indeed very green in the summer and was likely to have been even greener in Erik’s time because of the Medieval Warm Period.

    Yes this if from Wiki and I’ve read this before on other sources.

    Google is evil!

  • McSquida

    Well, I got the whole striking through thing in regards to the confusion about Australia’s status. Go you Aussies.

  • Pingback: Suriname » SR()

  • angryfeet

    I really liked this list, although the bit in parenthesis, “(about which more later)” from #8 made my inner grammar nazi cringe. That aside, interesting and informative list!

  • DiscHuker

    it would be interesting to live in a place like this. i live in houston, tx which is crazy populated and traffic that makes you want to drive into walls. i can’t imagine having that few people to bump into.

  • deepthinker

    I want one of the brightly colored houses in Greenland! Long live the hermits!

  • Pengi05

    So as soon as I saw both Iceland and Greenland on the list it instantly made me think of D2:The Mighty Ducks. I don’t know if anyone has ever watched these movies but in the second one they compete in the Junior Olympics or something like that and they team they are playing in from Iceland. At one point the coach ask the trainer from the other team why anyone would want to live in a place covered with ice. She then explains that Iceland is green and Greenland is Ice. I will forever remember that.

  • FlockO’Seagulls

    What “Sarah Palin moment,” Teapixie?? Are you one of the liberals with less than half a brain who is swallowing the line that Palin said that Africa is a country, something that first graders know is not true, and you are repeating it because (1) you actually believe she said it, or (2) you don’t give a shit about the truth? I think you tend toward the latter, myself.

  • Canadian

    Canada would be 12th on the list :(

  • FlockO’Seagulls

    By the way, jfrater, great list.

  • ligeia

    I want to go to Mongolia…………..a colleague just left work to go on the trans-Siberian express from Moscow to Beijing, passing through Mongolia before spending 4 months travelling around Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia and Malaysia. I’m soooooo jealous.

  • Realist

    Flock O’ Seagulls,

    I assume Teapixie used the phrase “Sarah Palin moment” because Ms. Palin is a fucking retard.

    No need to get so politically uptight in a list that has nothing to do with it. Jackass.

  • JayBe

    @10. maximuz04:
    Do some research about what a nation is. They aren’t states but they’re nations.
    Even more, if you read the description it’s said that almost all of them are somehow in an independence process.

    @3. Smeghead:
    Erik the Red lied for revenge. XD

  • FlockO’Seagulls

    Realist–It’s none of your damn business. I wasn’t speaking to you. Now get off your daddy’s computer and go back to playing in your sandbox, you little shit.

  • BTG

    I just wish for a way to get more Americans to move to the Snake habitats of Australia

  • nickname

    “Realist–It’s none of your damn business. I wasn’t speaking to you. Now get off your daddy’s computer and go back to playing in your sandbox, you little shit.”

    Seriously, what are you basing that on?

    Why don’t people respond with sense/reasoned arguments rather than personal attacks* and pleas for silence?

    *Ironic, isn’t it**?

    **Geddit?

  • Rob

    okay great Australia is on there and well deserved!!!

    BUT

    WHAT ABOUT CANADA???

  • Doc Holliday

    What about Canada? Isn’t the US close to the top 15? Not sure, thought I read that somewhere…

  • kowzilla

    Good work, astraya.
    I literally burst out laughing at the comment about “Most Australians live in cities. Few of the snakes do.”

  • MzFly

    Looks like FlockO’Seagulls is getting his panties in a bunch. Even the most seemingly innocent lists can spark the fuel for a heated exchange…

    It’s a great list by the way. Kudos to astraya.

  • insulted viking

    Iceland has one of the YOUNGER populations of the world with a younger than average world median age. Don’t be a dick ‘astraya’.

  • rolf

    Astraya, seeing as you are currently living in South Korea, perhaps you could make a list about the most racist, xenophobic, nationalistic and jingoistic countries in the world?

    Just a thought…

  • kiwiboi

    viking – I’m in the UK and I demand my deposit back from Glitner Bank!! Otherwise you’re all nothing but terrorists!

    ;)

    Seriously, Gordon Brown is a complete asshole, and I think you’ll find most Brits were outraged at his recent actions.

  • kiwiboi

    Astraya – nice list!

  • Randall

    Very good, well-researched list.

  • Jayme

    Damn I would love to live in a bright colored house like that!

  • Suskis

    about Greenland:
    use Google Maps (or Google Earth) and look at Greenland from satellite.
    WHAT THE HELL is that black stripe as big as a superstardestroyer that you can see laying in the middle of Greenland???

  • smurff

    Western Sahara # 3Morocco is mostly desert, it covers the northern section of Africa, and spreads over almost all of the “top” of the continent. It is the largest hot desert in the world, as well as the second largest desert on earth after Antarctica.

    The Sahara covers all or part of Algeria, Chad, Egypt, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, MOROCCO, Niger, Sudan, Tunisia and WESTERN SAHARA.

    If you are planning a sight seeing trip take your own sun block and dark glasses.

    Fantastic list astraya – well researched.

    Thanks

  • psychosurfer

    49. Suskis: According to Google Earth´s measure ruler, the object located at:
    Lat: 70°28’38.24″N
    Long: 40° 8’15.48″W
    is 80 km. long and 15 km. wide, it looks like some kind of transparency in the clouds and as a glitch in the program.

  • Arnaud

    Thanks to French Guiana, the country with which France has the longest terrestrial border is…. Brasil !!!
    Geography is weird.

  • astraya, wonderful list! Very informative, which makes it a winner in my book.
    3. Smeghead: Which genius decided to name an ice covered island Greenland
    ****
    Actually, it was a public relations ploy. Iceland used it too, in reverse.
    Greenland wanted to attract more settlers, and without the advantages of pictorial imagery, names could tell you something about a place. Greenland sounded, well, green and lush. So that’s what they named it.
    Iceland, on the other hand, wanted to discourage settlers, so naming the place Iceland, which brings up images of constantly being icebound and snow-covered, was a good move.
    So, in a way, it *was* genius. It worked, didn’t it?

  • Suskis

    psychosurfer: or is is something that had to be covered, like a military airport and something near?

  • Christine

    I am definitely not a political junkie and I think it’s exciting that Obama won. However, I DO think the political comments need to end. First off, no one wants other people to call them stupid. Second, this site is not strictly for (US) Americans. Third, this list has nothing to do with Sarah Palin and very little (possibly) to do with politics.

    Great list though, Astraya, interesting stuff. And funny too!

  • ptety

    Just wondering what the nationalities are of the people calling Australians the most racist people on earth? Australia has had its problems with racism in the past, but so has all the other former colonies like the USA, Canada, South Africa ec. If anything its a left over vestige of the old British attitude towards non-whites.

    There are far more bigotted people in the world today; the Chinese and Russians, for example, are not the kindest people to their neighbours. I don’t think you’ll find too many Tibet-style problems in Australia

  • now I want to move to Greenland haha

  • Blogball

    Graet list astraya! Im sitting in my office right now wanting to be in Suriname (#6)

  • Paulb

    lol its funny, at one point in time Mongolia used to be the 2nd largest empire of all time.

  • maximuz04

    @35. JayBe
    I “know” what a nation is to the most someone can know such a vague term which is somewhat invented and imaginary. If you take the definition as it was coined, any territory in which people feel some sort of connection with each other could be considered a nation. Montana could be considered a “nation” but it doesnt really make sense to put them on this list right?

    I was taking the definition of a “nation-state” which is also vague but a little more defined to what has been recognized as an independent state. I didnt see anywhere that says they are in the process of being independent (and I dont think this is true either but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt). But if independence wasnt a requirement, why make it a point?

    Lately for some reason, whenever something I say is even slightly wrong (and it does happen, I dont always check my sources because I am too excited at the list) I get slammed. I dont get corrected, I get chastised for inputting something, why is that? Cant you (you being a general term, not singling you out) just correct me and let it be?

  • Riley

    For those who said what about Canada… Wikipedia states the pop density at 3.2/km2 so we’re close… but not quite there. However like Australia, we clump in one area and leave vast sections of land untouched, so it seems more dense than it is.

  • JayArr

    Okay, since we’re on geography lessons and spelling, plus the little political gambit additions… How about we let Sara Palin and Dan Quayle run for office together? That way she could teach him how to spell and he could teach her geography. ;-)

    Cool list, by the way. I did not know about the serious sheep-to-human ratio in the Falklands!

  • psychosurfer

    Suskis. Mmm a 50 mile long airport or military base? Not likely. I just checked and by comparison Area 51 is no more than 6 miles long.
    That top straight line on the object you mention has something to do with the superimposition of the satellite images.

  • Ginger

    Astraya- You could never say all that type of stuff about an Australian and be truthful. You, however, could about a New Zealander.

  • Spange

    I could be mistaken, but I think there is (or was) a US military base on Greenland, near Thule. Not sure if that corresponds to the coordinates of the dark stripe mentioned, but as psychosurfer #63 mentioned, I can’t imagine it would be 50 miles long. I have to check now…damn LV I should be writing an essay!

    Cool list btw!

  • Spange

    I checked…Thule, or Qaanaaq in the local language, is nowhere near the black shape. It sort of looks like a glitch.

  • Anon

    kiwiboi,

    “I’m in the UK”

    “a complete asshole”

    You should know better, as I haven’t been back for a year or so, but last time I was in Perfidious Albion, only various small mammals, such as rodents and the like, foxes and a handful of birds lived in holes (other than arthropods, worms, etc), not equines.

    Now go on, give it to me, “Up your foxhole, mate.”

    As for *Brown*, well indeed yes.

  • Anon

    Thanks, astraya.

    Well, at least I’ve moved from 243 people per sq. km (U.K.) down to 20 (Chile). (Takes deep, relaxed breath of open, fresh air.) 2001 stats.

  • Lynn in Oregon

    Those brightly colored houses only work if all the neighbors do it too. If you’re the only one to paint your house flaming orange you surely will be kicked off the block!

  • Brad

    What about Antarctica? 0 people live there permanently.

  • John

    How about a list of personal attacks on and insults of other users? In recent months, Listverse seems to be losing it’s civil commentary that it once had. Please don’t let it reduce to the level you see at Digg.

  • Kreachure

    Nice list, astraya, thanks.

    #7 jfrater: A list of Top Misnomers does sound interesting! (Or at least that’s what I think you meant :P ) Titmouses and Guinea pigs and french fries, oh my!

    #29 Pengi05: I’m ashamed to admit it, but the Greenland/Iceland curiosity reminded me of D2: The Mighty Ducks too! (I thought it was too ridiculous to be more than a joke, but then I found out it’s true!)

    #49 Suskis: Greenland is secretly a super Star Destroyer. It will soon rise to the skies to conquer Earth and reestablish the Empire.

  • Lizzie

    Geez, did everybody eat an extra bowl of grumpy for breakfast today? Such unwarranted hostility!! Take it elsewhere, we don’t want it here.

    Nice list Astraya. Very informative and entertaining.

  • Freshies

    If you think the houses in Greenland look ugly, well that’s what you get when you have your government pay for everyones housing. Those of you who voted in a bigger gov’t in the U.S., look at whats coming our way thanks to you. Everything the U.S. government touches turns to crap, and you just voted in a guy who wants to touch everything.

  • aussie pride

    AUSTRALIA NUMBER ONE COUNTRY EASY !!!!!

    SOULJA BOY N OBAMA TOLD YA

  • maximuz04

    @ 71. John & 73. Lizzie
    Thank you guys, I thought I was the only one who noticed.
    I like the bright colored houses, better than dull colored ones :)… good list.

  • LMXV

    Australia, tsk tsk. Share some of that continent. There are Palestinians who claim they don’t have a homeland. Well there is space in Australia. Lots of White folk in the United States that would like to take a white flight to nowhere land away from anything ethnic. There ya go, Australia, you got space for a few more countries, don’t hog it all.

  • Teapixie

    Realist,
    I referred to Sarah Palin because of she didn’t know that Africa was a continent. Get over yourself. I don’t think she is a ‘retard’. I think she was a poor choice.
    Astraya, now that the southern summer is nearly here, could you please come and get the snakes that seem to hang around my back yard. Brown snakes, one of the world’s deadliest.

  • bigski

    DiscHuker you gonna respond to Freshies in a civil manner or you gonna leave it to me ?

  • SmokeNDreams

    @LMX

    Most of Australia is hot and arid, hence unsuitable for large populations.

    Unless you want to live underground like the mole people in the mining towns!

  • MartinL

    Y’know, the sad thing is, the wide open spaces tend not to stay *spaces*. Except of course for places like the Sahara, the Namib, Antarctica, and so forth. Human beings will spread out and build, try and get away from their neighbors, or plunk a bunch of cottage cheese boxes on former farmland and bilk others into thinking *that’s* the American Dream — a drywall hovel on a half-acre. I spent much of my early life on Grand Island, New York, an actual freshwater island that the Niagara River splits around and then rejoins itself for a few tumultuous miles before roaring over Niagara Falls. Grand Island used to be houses here and there nestled in meadows and deep woods, with a modest business district flanking the New York State Thruway which runs across the Island. Now, after a century of relentless development, half the woods I remember from my high school days are now developments of half-million to million-dollar houses, the construction and styling of which never quite seems to justify the pricetag. And it just aggravates me that these moneygrubbing realtors and contractors can’t look at a forest and not think of hauling out the bulldozers and chainsaws. “Our community needs to grow,” the Town Supervisor says, decade after decade, and people nod and dream of better services from a wider tax base … and the trees go down and the ugly suburban palaces go up and the sewer lines lengthen, and the Niagara gets a little browner every year. There’s a housing recession and a mortgage and credit crisis going on in my country, and yet somehow I can’t seem to work up a tear over it.

    Less really *is* more, folks. Wanna know something else? AUSTRALIA ROCKS! (And NZ’s kinda cool too.)

  • Jono

    Australia is definitely more racist than New Zealand. As unfortunate as that is, Red Fern, Cronulla and various other incidents happened. Something that shouldn’t happen in a first-world nation in the 21st century.

  • astraya

    insulted viking 43: I didn’t mention age. I said “geezer”, which might connote age, but doesn’t necessarily. Otherwise, please develop a sense of humour. Note that I poked fun at my own country as well. Anyone who’s been on this site for any length of time will recognise my idiosyncratic sense of humour.
    Rolf 44: I don’t know enough about “the most racist, xenophobic, nationalistic and jingoistic countries in the world” and wikipedia doesn’t have a list called that.
    Randall 47: Wow, a compliment! (Much shorter than your insults, though!)
    JayArr 62: I was going to add at the end of the Falkland Islands entry “, which makes it an ideal holiday destination for New Zealanders”, but I figured Jamie would edit that. (He might edit this instead!)
    Brad 70: True, but Antarctica isn’t (politically) a nation/country/state/territory.

    Thanks for the relevent comments. For the irrelevent comments, please take a deep breath, a glass of water and/or a good lie down.

  • Precision

    Great list mate, very informative.

    I love living here in Australia, and the sparse population density is all part of the charm. I think something like 86% of the population live in urban areas along the coastline (that may or may not be true, I think I pulled it out of the deep recesses of my mind from an Australian Studies subject when I was still at school).

    I can drive for just over an hour from where I live (Adelaide) and be out amongst the farms. We go to the “outback” a couple of times a year too. Nothing makes you feel small like standing in the middle of nowhere when the ground is barren and dead flat all the way to the horizon in every direction. Then at night the stars are simply amazing because of the very little reflected light in the non-urban areas.

    Come visit us everyone :)

  • good list

  • Pingback: O QUE É ISSO ? » Blog Archive » As nações menos populosas do mundo()

  • Anderi

    Yaaaaay!

    AUSSIE!
    AUSSIE!
    AUSSIE!

    PROCREATE!
    PROCREATE!
    PROCREATE!

  • astraya

    angryfeet 26: could you please explain why you find “about which more later” objectionable?

  • Even though I live in the U.S.A., in California, I happen to live in an extremely sparsely populated area which is unlikely to change anytime in the foreseeable future.
    My village has a permanent population of perhaps 5000, that’s *if* you include many of the outlying farms and vineyards. The closest town is 15 miles away. All of the coastline is protected, and can never be built upon nor fished in or drilled in.
    The land itself, as far as the eye can see, is also protected, and likewise can never be built upon.
    Our village itself has a permanent building moratorium. From my house I cannot see another house, only woods, and the ocean is 1.5 miles away from my front door. Deer wander into my yard, as do Bobcat, Fox, Coyote, a Brown Bear was spotted in a nearby area the other day, bird-life of astounding variety, and all sorts of reptiles including (as I discovered yesterday) a Newt!
    Some people respect open space. We have an organization in the Village which buys up empty tracts of land and turns them into pocket greenspaces (everything here is green space!).
    Point being, not every place is automatically ruined by over-building. Some places go to the trouble of legislating open space, the protection of marine animals, a serene way of life.
    Yes, I feel lucky to live here. I put in my time in the city, L.A., working in a crazy biz, and this is heaven. I wish everyone could live like this, but it would be a very different world for that to happen, and not everyone would like it.
    This is *MY* paradise. You have to find your own.

  • Davo

    Australia is the best country in the world. Deal with it

  • krchuk

    Australia is marvellous. I live in a Sydney suburb with a river round the corner, I can see at least 20 bird species as I munch on my breakfast, I’m only 15 mins from the beach, 20 mins from the sea, an hour and a half from the mountains. My family and extended family includes: Italians, Croatians, English, Portugese, Armenians, Lebanese, Irish, Chinese amongst a few (what rascism?)and there is all the sunshine to enjoy. Only one problem, Astraya …. those snakes … they do live in the city … I had two venomous juvenile snakes come into the house. We caught the little buggers with tupperware and deposited them back in the bush :)

  • yes, from Argentina

    I’m sorry, the truth is: the Falklands are not a country, but a territory under sovereign dispute. And the name is not Falkland, but Malvinas. Thanks.

  • astraya

    krchuk: I said “very few of the snakes do”!

    yes: I acknowledged the dispute in my item. As long as they are administered by the United Kingdom, they will be referred to in my list as the Falkland Islands.

  • CRSN

    As one of the many resident aussies of LV, i’m quite appalled at that first statement in the comments by Ginger and would like her to come sit next to me and we’ll have a good ol’chat about wtf her problem is.

    Ginger – And if you do think we’re good for nothing, well i’d like to here how you came to that conclusion you slack jaw yockle, come out and play, i wanna shove a wombat up you you dumb [email protected]#!%

  • CRSN

    Jono – Yeah, your right, in a different way but, Australia is the most multi cultural country in the world, unfortunately our government has always let refugees into the country that start the shit. We have enough on our plates with our natives.

    yesterday two tribes who moved to Australia as refugees from Sudan got into a gang conflict in one of our major cities, there were 2 14 year old boys chased down by their rival gang and murdered in front of dozens of people. they were not Australians and Aussies would never do that.

    Secondly – Redfurn and Cronulla: these areas just out of Sydney are low socio-economic suburbs full of refugies and our native Aboriginals and a couple of white aussies, i’d like to see any nationality wander down the street and not get accosted for some reason.

    We are not a racist country and i do not speak on behalf of any other Australian on this site, but, as many of our bumper stickers say:

    “if you dont like it, leave it”

  • CRSN

    Here or Hear – you get the jist

  • Ginger, Aussie’s are among the best folk on the face of the earth!
    I don’t care how you came to your erroneous conclusion, I just suggest you apologize to all of the Australians on LV and learn a little bit about the people who live in that country.

    Under the circumstances, CRSN, I’ll get Anon to take care of the rug.

  • krchuk

    Astraya, there’s HEEEEEEEEAPS of snakes in the cities. If any Americans are thinking of moving out here I would think twice for all the snakes that are here … in the cities ;)

  • I don’t remember any snakes, but I do remember a blue-tongued lizard walking down the sidewalk in Campsie.
    Of course, I left at the age of 6 1/2, so I might have forgotten some things.

  • CRSN

    MUTHA FUCHING SNAKES IN A CITY – sorry Samuel L. Jackson

    In Perth the closest you’ll come to a snake is around 10km from the CBD.

    We have more Sharks in the Swan River but the Dolphins take care of them.

  • CRSN

    J – dont delete it, its a good joke.

    This morning, from a cave somewhere in Pakistan, Taliban Minister of immigration, Mohammed Omar, warned Australia that if military action against Iraq and Afghanistan continues, Taliban authorities will cut off Australia’s
    supply of convenience store managers. And if this action does not yield sufficient results, cab drivers will be next, followed by Telstra customer service reps, dole office workers and Queensland doctors.

    It’s going to get ugly folks…

  • Precision

    CRSN – You say we are not a racist country but your comment (94) contains some pretty interesting claims.

    Firstly, I live in Adelaide where one young man (not two as you claim) was murdered yesterday. Your claim that “aussies would never do that” is a bit of a stretch. Do you recall the Melbourne underworld gang wars about which a very popular television show was recently made? There were quite a few Australians involved in that. Secondly there has of yet been no confirmation that the fight was gang related (granted it appears that way though).

    Also, do you seriously believe that refugees are the only ones that “start the shit” (whatever “the shit” is)? There are many, many intolerent Australian citizens that are openly hostile to people of other backgrounds, often for no reason whatsoever. It does go both ways of course, but violence in Australia is by no means limited to foreigners.

    I agree that on a whole Australia is not a racist country, but like most countries sadly there are small groups of people that are completely intolerent and exhibit blatant racism.

    Furthermore, you yourself have perpetuated a racist stereotype that Aboriginal-Australians are nothing but trouble with your comment “we have enough on our plates with our natives”.

    Your comment comes across as somewhat intolerent of those that are living in Australia but have not been here for generations. I hope I’m wrong

  • Anon

    yes, from Argentina, (91),

    “I’m sorry, the truth is: the Falklands are not a country, but a territory under sovereign dispute. And the name is not Falkland, but Malvinas. Thanks.”

    I’m sorry, but tell that to any of those 3060 people who have lived there for generations, who call their home territory the Falklands, and wish to remain there and keep it that way.

    People and their wishes must surely be the most important and sovereign consideration. I don’t doubt you would support the rights of any community of Argentinians who happened to be the established community on a group of islands off Chile, Brazil, or anywhere else, and so would I.

    Supposing someone came along and told you to get out of your house because it belonged to their family a few hundred years ago and they had been forced to leave. Would you accept that? Would you go? Will you hand back the regions of Argentina that rightfully belonged to the Indians before the Europeans arrived? I think not.

  • CRSN

    Precision – alright, i may have gone in the wrong direction with it, but i still stand my ground that a lot of our problems caused over here are because of other nationalities conflicts that they bring with them, when moving to another country to escape “the shit” thats happening there, why the fuck bring it on to our streets so we have to witness “their shit” that they couldnt leave behind.

    Australia has had to deal with the Aboriginal culture for a long time, and they want more rights than the “white fellas” which we have given them, did you know that if they want a brand new car all they have to do is make the first payment on it and the government pays the rest (we’re talking up to $50k), it shits me to tears when i see an Aboriginal in a fully worked brand new V8 Commodore (Pontiac GTO in the US) who is on the dole (social security benefits) and the car has been beaten the shit out of.

    Secondly, pretty much every Thursday when the dole is supplied, the liquor shops have their best trading, they would rather spend their money (sorry, the tax payers money) on alcohol to get shit faced than to go shopping and fill their fridges, one of the many reason the children end up in foster care, or worse, as a ward of the state, is because the parent is so irresponsible with the childs care.

    also, have you taken a trip up North to Fitzroy crossing and Halls Creek, i have and it wasnt pretty, the Australian army has been sent there to keep everything in order because these out back communities have got so out of hand because of alcohol, they have basically band it from being sold and trucked in.

    My brother works as a community cricket development officer and we both travel up north a fair bit, to see all these promising young children put in a situation were their parents become so violent because of the grog is sad, i’m not a racist person, but there is a place where you have to draw a line in the sand, and when a culture can justify raping their own children in this day and age, when society has come so far, it is disheartening and disgusting.

    i have done Australian and aboriginal history since i was in year 1 in primary school because it was part of the curriculum back then and i have a lot of respect for the hard working, honest Aboriginals, but unfortunately there arent many of those around any more.

    i have lived in some pretty dodgy areas as well and have had to deal with on occasion an older brother sending his 9 or 10 year old brother around the corner to score drugs, i have beaten the absolute crap out of the older brothers for making his younger siblings do that.

    As said before, there are a lot of aspiring young aboriginal children coming through as academics and athletes, it is a shame to see them bought down to there elders level and waste their skills and opportunities.

  • Anon

    segue, (98),

    Blue-tongued skinks are wonderful beasts. My ex-landlord in the U.K., with whose family I lodged for a while in the 80s after my divorce, was a reptile fanatic. They featured among his collection, together with pythons (the biggest inevitably called Monty, what else).

    It’s so strange to live in a land devoid of newts and squirrels, as Chile is. Newts formed such a big part of my childhood wildlife adventures. They used to inhabit our goldfish pond in quantity, but I would add even more from *expeditions*. Once, when chickens’ eggs were still extremely scarce, my mum sent me on an errand for half-a-dozen from a neighbour. I slung the bag over my shoulder, and on passing the pond to the door, caught a glimpse of several newts rising for air in the clear water. So bending and peering into the pond, I clean forgot about the eggs, and wondered whether frogs were responsible for the sudden cluster of loud plopping noises and splashes. Good job my folks were opposed to corporal punishment!

    We know a guy who is a producer of natural history and travel TV docus here, and who also has pretensions to publish lavish, arty coffee-table books. An idea he had for one of local wildflowers with ourselves aborted. But while it was ongoing, we had a consultation at his office one day. He confided in us that he had produced a mock-up for an illustrated book on newts. Now since there are none of the said amphibians in Chile, I found that rather odd, but mentally saluted someone for such a wide-ranging and exotic enterprise. Where would he get the images? He asked, Would we like to see it? Well, of course. So it was laid carefully on the table, opened at random and, hey presto … there was depicted a tastefully reposing and completely naked young lady. Shouldn’t I have guessed? Several of our friends here speaking English are liable to make a D sound like a T!

  • Anon

    segue, (96),

    (Groans) Oh, for shit’s sake, not that fuggin rug!

    (Does that count as an ad ruginem?)

  • CRSN

    Bwhahahahaha! sucked in Anon, you get the stinky rug, i put the arm on top but i’m keeping the head to boil off the skin and make a bong out of it, SR’s empty cavity is the perfect size chamber.

    go bury it and bury it deep!

  • astraya

    krchuk 97: Alright, comparatively few snakes live in the cities, compared to the country. While I was researching this list, I found a herpetology website that added the important qualifition “Australia has the most venomous snakes if you happen to be a mouse.” Toxicology tests are carried out on mice (pace the participants in the “Is animal testing necessary?” hot topic), and humans have different physiology to mice (obviously). The site said that you have more chance of being killed by bees in Australia than by snakes. Most of the deaths by snakes are due to a combination of drunkenness, barefootedness and attacking the snake.
    The snakes that cause the most deaths are found in places where there is extensive interaction between humans and snakes, such as India, Thailand and Brazil.

    CRSN 100: LOL. I’m glad none of my colleagues asked me what I was laughing about, because it would be impossible to explain.

    Anon: 1) It gives a new meaning to the term “argy-bargy”. 2) The newts must have been Chile.

  • CRSN

    Seague – yeah, atleast no one can see what i’m doing because i’m in charge of the IT in my office.

    I have an old sales rep sitting across from me and he used to Hippy, but now he’s a health fanatic and it drives him crazy.

  • I live in Australia, in a place called Cairns, which is a tropical paradise. We have two world heritage areas on our doorstep (the great barrier reef and the daintree rainforest) and beautiful mountains which surround our city. While it is paradise, it is also two hours flight, and approx. 2 days drive from the capital city (Brisbane) of our state (Queensland). Living up here, so far away from everything, and 4 hours drive from the nearest city, really lets you understand just how sparsely populated Australia is. However a lot of the habitable land along the Coast has already been developed, and no one in there right mind would want to live in the interior of the country.

    However while I live in paradise, 5 hours drive to the North of my city is Cape York, where there are a lot of indigenous communities. These communities, which offer the only link to a traditional lifestyle which was taken from the indigenous population only 200-odd years ago, offer little in the way of education, health care or job opportunities, so it is little wonder that some people in these communities have turned to alcohol. Sadly, the average lifespan of an indigenous Australian is 17 years less than that of a non-indigenous australian. The infant mortality rate for indigenous australians is three times more than that of non-indigenous australians. Indigenous Australians living in communities like Cape York also suffer from an eye disease that is found only in third world countries. So CRSN before you start talking about having problems with the ‘natives’ and ranting about all of the so called ‘advantages’ they have, think what it would be like if 1 in 3 of your babies died and you lived 20 years less than your next door neighbour just because of the colour of your skin.

  • Hillery

    This is a lovely list for misanthropes. Sometimes I just want to go hide, and Iceland looks lovely, especially as it is so far away from GOP alarmists like #30 & #74. Australia would be even farther,and it *is* extremely photogenic. I wouldn’t even mind dodging the odd snake now and then, but some of the spiders I’ve heard about make me a little uncomfortable…

  • Precision

    tookyb – CRSN does make some good points concerning Aboriginal welfare, even if the underlying sentiment of the comment is a bit disagreeable to me.

    It’s quite clear that what the Government is doing to “help” Aboriginal Australians is also creating many new problems that must be overcome. Neither the welfare system nor the Aboriginal community are entirely to blame though; the problem seems to be much more complex than that.

    In any case, I believe that something needs to change to address the massive gulf in living standards that exists between white Australians and Aboriginals. Once Aboriginal Australians are on par with the rest of the population in key socio-economic indicators, I believe that the racism exhibited towards Aboriginals will decline.

    Oh and Hillery (110) – the spiders here aren’t that bad, especially in good gravy ;)

  • CRSN

    109. [email protected] – Mate, my opinion is exactly that, my opinion, I disagree with you that in Cape York the indigenous community is disadvantaged, as you have pointed out, this country has been established for 200-odd years, within that time the people who have settled this country have provided all the infrastructure for the indigenous people to be of equals (if you want to call it that, as far as I’m concerned everyone is born equal, its what you do that makes you more or less of a person)

    I consider the whole argument that the indigenous people have been hard done by in recent times, in the beginning yes, it was atrocious how they got treated and of course Eddie Marbo had to fight to get a lot of the legislation introduced to further his poeples future, what do you think he would say now if he had seen how his legacy has been wasted?

    whats the problem with them hoping in a car and moving to the city to find a better future for them selves.

    i think that it is sad that we have lost the Traditional Indigenous communities because with them gone a lot of history has also been lost, but to say that it is unfair that the government has not supplied infrastructure for health or what ever it may be that they need is silly, as far as i’m concerned you cant have it both ways, you want to live in the bush or the out back – deal with it, that was their choice, or they can move to an area with better infrastructure and get an education, get a skilled job and live a better all round life.

    I know a lot who have and now work for the New South Wales Forestry Department and they are top people.

    They wouldn’t be the first culture to move to a better area to better their lives – many have done it before in other countries, whets that word again, that’s right EVOLUTION.

    I have to deal with inner city ones all the time and it shits me that basically if you have 1/8 indigenous blood then you can still claim their benefits, like I said before, everyone is born equal, it is up to the individual to make something of them selves.

    Oh yeah, by the way, I got kicked out of high school in year 9 and I went out and got an education and skills at TAFE, by the equivalent of year 10 I had my green cards organized for heavy machinery so when I turned 18 I could just walk in to a job, until then, I worked my ass off in a sawmill, that was for 4 years straight, hard fucking labor, and to hear this kind of stuff just makes me want to claim benefits, it would be easier wouldn’t it? Sitting on my ass all day and every second Thursday getting money given to me for nothing, I’m right, it would be easier, but I wouldn’t be happy and commutable in knowing that I’m not contributing to the economy. NO

  • CRSN

    SHIT! i just went through my last post and some of the spelling is awful, sorry spelling Nazi’s out there, i was in a rush.

  • Jono

    CRSN:

    I understand your comments, but the thing is, New Zealand has had exactly the same set of circumstance as Australia. New Zealand is a homogeneous nation, where since the last census a large proportion have been writing down ethnicity as “kiwi.”

    I’m pretty sure I can’t say the same thing about Australia. Also, while reading a bit more about those riots, I read about some other riots that occurred in the ’40s. There was one riot that was in Australia, where Australian troops had resentment of American soldiers superior pay, uniform jealousy and being “oversexed” with Australian girls. After some aussies befriended an american, the american was arrested for some reason, and the aussies grew angry, and soon a riot and many street battles followed into that night. Not very good.

    Whereas, a very similar riot occurred in New Zealand. There was a serviceman club in Wellington, open to all servicemen. When the Americans came, they too used it. Some of the men from the South [states of America] objected to Maoris being able to use the club and began stopping Maoris from entering. New Zealand soldiers (both Pakeha and Maori) joined together to fight against American soldiers who were quite racist. Also a street riot that lasted into the night.

    This, was and to a degree still is the difference between Australia and New Zealand. Of course things have changed a lot since then, but they’re not where they need to be.

  • 104. Anon: I don’t think there’s a way to post a pic in a post, or I’d post a pic of the newt I found in my west side yard. It was beautiful! Red, shining, completely unafraid.

    CRSN: I am, as you know, usually a spelling/grammar nazi, but only with A – people I either don’t know
    or
    B – people who do it habitually.
    As you do not do it habitually, I let it go.

    Finally, I’m tired. My beddy-byie is calling my name. I shall harken to it’s insistent beckoning.
    ta

  • astraya

    I’m sad that this discussion has taken the turn that it has. It may all be based on a misunderstanding. As far as I can interpret, rolf’s comment at 44:

    “Astraya, seeing as you are currently living in South Korea, perhaps you could make a list about the most racist, xenophobic, nationalistic and jingoistic countries in the world?”

    referred to South Korea, not Australia.

    ptety at 56 assumes that rolf is talking about Australia. Then it all seems to start with Jono at 82 and CRSN at 94. I haven’t been following this closely, so I’ve got to go back and read all the comments closely.

    Meanwhile, let’s make a list of countries which don’t have a problem of some size with [insert your ism here]:
    1) Um
    2) Err
    3) That other country that everyone’s flocking to because it doesn’t have a problem of some size with [insert your ism here].

    BTW the houses in [multicoloured]land are a darn sight pretty than the interminable corporately built apartment blocks in Korea.

  • astraya

    segue: A “newt” like in Anon’s acquaintance’s book? Damn, you have interesting wildlife!

  • Like I said, astraya, you can’t see the neearest neighbor, and we *do* have an in-ground hot tub…do the math. ;-)

  • Juliet

    Freshies, you might want to chuck a little more suds in there while you rinse and repeat? Your jaded attitude reeks of Stalies, not Freshies. President-elect Obama won the election, now please suck it up and get over it? I examined the sky today and, no, it isn’t falling.

    Great list, very interesting. Makes me want to go to visit Iceland and French Guiana; very pretty.

  • Jono

    Ah, shit. Seems I’ve made a mess. But, I’m not apologizing for what I said, merely that it was irrelevant to the topic.

  • MPW

    I was told by someone a long time ago that Greenland was named Greenland by Vikings in hopes of luring people who would expect a beautiful and lush place to live in order to easily attack, rob and kill them. Makes sense, but I couldn’t verify that explanation. Interesting list.

  • Ginger

    Yet again, Australians getting worked up over nothing.
    Silly, silly.

  • gezzanater

    Ginger 122,

    Well maybe if you hadn’t made the stupid comment(1)in the first place, then this discussion wouldn’t have turned the way it has, and yes we f*&^%ing Aussie’s do get worked up.

  • astraya

    Ginger: Am I right in assuming from your 64 that you are a New Zealander? Am I right in assuming therefore that your 1 was, in fact, as tongue-in-cheek as my comments about New Zealand have been?
    Or did you mean it?
    If Australia is “good for nothing”, it is for two reasons: 1) soil and 2) water, neither of which is the fault of the people living on it. In fact Australia farms land that would be considered marginal or desert anywhere else in the world.

    Jono 114: New Zealand’s circumstances were different in two ways: Australia is so large that the aborigines could be rounded up, sent away out of sight and marginalised, so that for many years the average “Aussie” didn’t have anything to do, and didn’t have to have anything to do, with the average aborigine. New Zealand is small enough that there’s nowhere to do that, so Maori and pakeha lived and worked, maybe not together, but certainly in closer proximity. Secondly, there was a treaty in New Zealand, which gave the Maori certain rights, or legal recognition.

  • bigski

    Thank you Juliet. Nice list.

  • Ali hayat

    just saw pakistan mentioned :-)

    Anyways great list though i didnt know falklands was a nation !

  • Anon

    Ali Hayat, (126),

    The status of the Falklands and a number of other places listed is noted in post 10, q.v.

  • Louise

    I live in Greenland at the moment, and I LOVE it here. The capital, Nuuk, is actually the least populated capital in the world. Counting around 17,000 persons.
    The much colourfull houses, is as said above, a nice break in the not so colourfull environment. BTW, the gvnt is not housing people. They buy their houses like most places in the world. They do have free dentists, doctors and phychiatrists though. And if Obama can do that for the americans, I belive that it will be for the best. Just my humble oppinion!!!

    I think that the big shadow you can see on Google Earth is one of those breaks in the ice, the the scientist are afraid of, ’cause of that wholoe global warming thing:-)

  • Maelstrom

    Australia isnt a continant, its a common mis-conception

    its actually accepted as the largest land mass of the AUSTRALASIAN continant, which includes several islands including New Zealand

  • astraya

    From today’s Sydney Morning Herald:

    “Aussie backpackers are populating the UK by stealth, donating sperm to earn money to fund their travels.”

    (extreme tongue in cheek)In other words, Aussie backpackers are professional wankers?

  • CRSN

    astraya – Bugger you, you just let out the secret, now how am i going to fund myself when i visit the UK, there will be lines out the front of the donation centers.

    Ginger – i see from you not responding you must have crawled back into your little cave.

  • astraya

    Maelstrom: Thank you. Did you also know that the British Isles are part of Europe, Madagascar is part of Africa and Greenland is part of America?

    CRSN: I backpacked to England as an amateur. I didn’t know professionalism was an option.

  • Jono

    atraya:

    “Secondly, there was a treaty in New Zealand, which gave the Maori certain rights, or legal recognition”

    Do you maybe think your country could of had such a treaty too? Unfortunately for yourself a lot of what you’ve just written is inherently racist. It’s disgusting to me. Many other comments as well, let me round a few up.

    “Redfurn and Cronulla: these areas just out of Sydney are low socio-economic suburbs full of refugies and our native Aboriginals and a couple of white aussies”
    Inherent racism obvious here.

    “Australia has had to deal with the Aboriginal culture for a long time, and they want more rights than the “white fellas” which we have given them,”
    Hmm, maybe you’ve “had to deal with their culture” because they OWNED the country before the colonists and their kin came to steal it!

    “New Zealand’s circumstances were different in two ways: Australia is so large that the aborigines could be rounded up, sent away out of sight and marginalised, so that for many years the average “Aussie” didn’t have anything to do, and didn’t have to have anything to do, with the average aborigine.”
    Oh, so since they were institutionalized it’s alright to treat the minorities like shit? Great justification.

    It’s painfully obvious to many people (mainly more integrated societies such as the United Kingdom and much of metropolitan US) that this racism is quite evident when they meet Aussies. It’s not as bad as it was, and it’s not everyone, there are worse countries (South Africa) but it’s not good enough regardless.

  • krchuk

    Jono, aw shucks, lighten up. Aussies aren’t rascist, they just hate everyone equally :)

  • CRSN

    So Jono, where do you come from? i’d like to hang some shit on your countries treatment of their natives.

    Mate, you dont understand anything about australia obviously.

    Read a bit of our early history, i despise the people who settled australia in their treatment of our natives, but, at the same time, after the settlers realized the error of what they’d done (and that took until the early 70’s) they worked with the native community to help them to be integrated in to society and become more equal.

    I guess us aussies on the site have taken everyone else’s negative comment the wrong way and all we have done (at the same time maybe sounding racist) is try to defend our country.

    I agree that it was deplorable the way that the natives were treated, but after so many years of government funding and seeing how it has been used by “some” of the native community, you become disheartened in the fact that the more money and help that we try to give them, the more it sets them back.

    it is up to the native communities to start “wanting” to integrate themselves in to the community and to add to the workforce and economy, unfortunately, until then, we all probably will sound racist because we feel as though we’re getting ripped off.

    this is the last I will say on this matter Jono, but i would like you o look up the name EDDIE MARBO, and to see what he did for his people, then look up HALLS CREEK and tell me then that you think we are racist, could you justify raping your own daughter? Didn’t think so.

  • astraya

    CRSN posted that while I was preparing my reply off-line.

    BTW, it’s spelled ‘Mabo’.

    atraya:

    It helps if you get my screen name correct.

    “Secondly, there was a treaty in New Zealand, which gave the Maori certain rights, or legal recognition”
    Do you maybe think your country could of had such a treaty too?

    I read in book that I no longer own, or no longer have access to if I do, that Governor Phillip had orders to negotiate with the local leaders and come to some sort of formal or informal agreement. Unfortunately, he (a child of his time and place) looked at the tribal/semi-nomadic aborigines and couldn’t see anything that resembled his understanding of leadership, so didn’t. Personally, he treated the aborigines with more kindness and fairness than many others of his time would have.

    Unfortunately for yourself a lot of what you’ve just written is inherently racist. It’s disgusting to me. Many other comments as well, let me round a few up.

    What? How? A lot of what you have quoted below was written by other(s).

    “Redfurn and Cronulla: these areas just out of Sydney are low socio-economic suburbs full of refugies and our native Aboriginals and a couple of white aussies”
    Inherent racism obvious here.
    “Australia has had to deal with the Aboriginal culture for a long time, and they want more rights than the “white fellas” which we have given them,”
    Hmm, maybe you’ve “had to deal with their culture” because they OWNED the country before the colonists and their kin came to steal it!

    I didn’t write any of this, so I’m not going to address it.

    “New Zealand’s circumstances were different in two ways: Australia is so large that the aborigines could be rounded up, sent away out of sight and marginalised, so that for many years the average “Aussie” didn’t have anything to do, and didn’t have to have anything to do, with the average aborigine.”
    Oh, so since they were institutionalized it’s alright to treat the minorities like shit? Great justification.

    Whoa! Are we on the same planet here? Point to anything in my statement that would lead you to such an inference. You can’t. I didn’t say so. I didn’t say anything that would lead a reasonable reader to infer so. I was stating an historical fact. It happened. It is one of the biggest blots on Australia’s history. I venture to suggest that most modern-day (white) Australians would say the same. Or at least most of the modern-day (white) Australians I know.
    It is never alright to treat the minorities like shit. Point to anything I said that suggests that a) as a general proposition or b) my personal belief.

    It’s painfully obvious to many people (mainly more integrated societies such as the United Kingdom and much of metropolitan US) that this racism is quite evident when they meet Aussies. It’s not as bad as it was, and it’s not everyone, there are worse countries (South Africa) but it’s not good enough regardless.

    Are we talking about the United Kingdom of Brixton and Toxteth and the metropolitan US of the Rodney King riots and the New Orleans floods here? Australia’s got its problems. Of course it has. Only a starry-eyed idealist would say otherwise. At least we can agree on “It’s not as bad as it was, and it’s not everyone”.

    I don’t want this to degenerate into blanket accusations of “racism”. If I have said anything objectionable, point to it. If someone else has, point to him/her.

    Gosh, aren’t those houses in Greenland cute? And what about that rainforest in Suriname?

  • astraya

    krchuk: “Aussies aren’t rascist, they just hate everyone equally”

    Except me.

  • CRSN

    The Greenland houses look like Skittles or Smarties :)

  • k1w1taxi

    LMXV (77) plus all those involved in the racist aussie arguments.

    http://www.streem.com.au/green/7418-maldives-may-move-country-to-australia

    SmokeNdreams (80) of course its arid and hot the greedy Aussie bastards have not one but three deserts :D

    Cheers
    Lee

  • Teapixie

    OMG Malestrom. I very nearly wet my pants reading your comment!
    Some bad news for you. Australia is a continent and Asia is a whole other different continent. Despite our proximity to New Zealand, that too, is a whole other country. Different governments. Different Prime Ministers. You need a passport to go anywhere outside Australia.
    Perhaps it’s better you stop hanging out with the people who ‘accept’ anything else.

  • Jono

    CRSN:

    “it is up to the native communities to start “wanting” to integrate themselves in to the community and to add to the workforce and economy, unfortunately, until then, we all probably will sound racist because we feel as though we’re getting ripped off”

    You’re extremely ignorant to think that Aborigines need to define themselves as Western to integrate into society. Integration works from all parties, not just one. Maybe their culture is valid and both parties can adapt to create a unified Australia. Anyway, I don’t really care. That’s not happening and it won’t for a long while.

    This is like trying to talk the face off a donkey.

    astraya:

    “Whoa! Are we on the same planet here? Point to anything in my statement that would lead you to such an inference.”

    Don’t play the fool with me. You know well right that what you wrote inferred that the initial circumstances were different between our two countries, and as a result the natives from New Zealand were treated better only because of the circumstances.

    “New Zealand is small enough that there’s nowhere to do that [institutionalize them]”

    Actually, to be on-topic, New Zealand only has a population density of 15/km^2 (currently). That’s right around the 85th percentile. So actually, we did have the room to perform such a thing.

  • astraya

    Check a dictionary for the meaning of the word “inferred”. I “inferred” nothing. I didn’t even “imply” anything. There’s a difference between the two words. You said “New Zealand has had exactly the same set of circumstance as Australia”. This is clearly wrong, for at least the two reasons I gave (and possibly more). I stated a fact: Australian aborigines could be (and were) rounded up and sent away. Fact. You inferred totally your own meaning, totally erroneously, from that statement. As I said before, point to anything in my statement that would lead you to such an inference. You certainly haven’t in your immediately preceding comment. You have simply added a second set of inferences to your first set of inferences, none of which was stated, or is inherent, in my original statement.

  • Anon

    Now look ye here,

    The best man at my my wedding was an Aussie doctor. For over a year we shared a flat in Chiswick owned by a yuppie Chinese Trinidadian. We had the world’s worse milkman, called Strad (Stradivarius for long, name derived from Mister Adams – work it out). Thanks to him, (the dr), apart from meeting my first (Brit) wife, I was forced to confront this great load of antipodean wankers who thuswise fund their trips to Earl’s Court. (Distaff side excepted. Lateral question: So how do the tarts do it? Fund their backpacking, I mean. Blow job the guys and nick the sperm? That sounds typically Oz.). They were the maddest crew of bastards I’ve ever met. But racist? Anti abo? That’s a load of utter cobbers, sorry cobblers. They were some of the more open-minded folks I’ve ever met.

    Aw shit, I clean forgot, they just couldn’t stand Brits, they hated us …

    Yuppie Chinese Trinidadians are racist though.

    Adds long line of smiley jobs.

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  • Ginger

    astraya- Yeah. Pretty much from just being a New Zealander I like to insult Australians.

    CRSN- My non-responding results from having a life and not sitting at a computer reading and responding to comments all day long.

  • Jono

    astraya:

    “There’s a difference between the two words.”
    That there is. Could of sworn you’d written “imply” though. :p

    “I stated a fact: Australian aborigines could be (and were) rounded up and sent away.”
    How is that even relevent? Maoris could of been rounded up, but they weren’t. The only difference between the two nations being that your country did round them up. I don’t even see the relevence you’re trying to apply. Are you saying because they were rounded up, the average Joe public didn’t know about Aborigines and treated them badly as a result? Because that’s not a justification.

    Lastly, I have some evidence which is irrefutable although slightly irrelevant. New Zealand has more equality of the sexes in the workplace, we’re only behind Scandinavia (rank 5), “Australia is ranked 21st place this year, behind many poorer countries, such as the Philippines, Mozambique and Lesotho”.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10543185

    Anyway. I realize the only way I’m going to stop arguing is that if you admit your country, on average, is more racist than mine. That won’t happen, you won’t bite that bullet. I won’t concede my argument either, not gonna happen.
    What I will concede though, is that I have wasted my time in this argument that serves nothing more than arguing for the sake of arguing. I welcome you to agree with me on that. ;)

  • k1w1taxi

    Jono (141)

    Don’t play the fool with me. You know well right that what you wrote inferred that the initial circumstances were different between our two countries, and as a result the natives from New Zealand were treated better only because of the circumstances.

    That would be because the circumstances of European settlement in the two countries were TOTALLY different. As were the cultural levels of the two indigenous races. You really should learn some of your own history.

    Cheers
    Lee

  • astraya

    Jono: Once again you have failed to answer my question. The “argument” could have been over long ago if you had. It has continued because you haven’t.

    I am not going to admit that Australia is, on average, more racist than New Zealand, because I have no in-depth knowledge of life in New Zealand.

  • Jono

    atraya:

    Look, are you seriously telling me you don’t even understand what you wrote?

    k1w1taxi:

    They weren’t totally different. Totally different is the settling of Europeans into America and the settling of Europeans into New Zealand. New Zealand and Australia are very similar, both being antipodes of the UK, they both had large groups of natives, they both featured rich immigrants following the trade industries, missionaries, whalers, miners, etc.

    And what do you mean “As were the cultural levels of the two indigenous races.” What you’re saying is that one of the two cultures has less culture than the other. Way to be ignorant.

    Seriously, I’m done playing playground wars with this topic. Maybe one day there will be a surgical procedure to remove the wool from your eyes.

  • Lilith Hel

    despite the title, you haven’t clearly defined what type of land mass it takes to make this list seeing as you’ve included territories of other countries as well as whole countries. if territories can make the list then Antarctica should be #1. dozens countries around the world have staked territorial claims to the continent, but have signed an international treaty to keep the land for scientific research only. it is 5th largest continent, w/ a population that ranges from 1,000 in winter to 4,000 in the summer. that’s a whole lot less than greenland.

    btw, i think everyone has heard enough about the whole greenland/iceland name thing so quit posting about it and acting like it’s something new. both islands contain plants and ice. hell, antarctica has some green stuff growing on it too in a few places.

  • k1w1taxi

    Jono (148)

    Your kidding me right?

    You have only failed to list the major immigrant group into Australia, and the one that had far more effect on it’s attitude to the Aboriginal. Forget all the small groups and late comers you mention, Australia was founded as a Penal Colony. New Zealand was settled by a private company as a place for Settlers. Hence a very fundamental difference in attitude between the two groups.

    Re the cultural thing. I agree not the best word for what I meant, I just couldn’t put my mind on the precise term I needed. What I was trying to get across was that the Maori were more *advanced* in their level of overall development. I think you will find that they were largely more disposed towards favourable contact with the newcomers, in large part due to their desire to get their hands on a lot of the new technology the British brought with them – especially muskets. The aboriginals were by and large less keen on having anything to do with the newcomers.

    Cheers
    Lee

  • astraya

    Jono: I know exactly what I wrote. You seem to be struggling with it, though.

  • CRSN

    144. Ginger

    “CRSN- My non-responding results from having a life and not sitting at a computer reading and responding to comments all day long.”

    That’s funny, considering i’ve been out in Kalgoolie for the last 3 days, and theres not exactly a lot of computers out there.

    Anyway, after 3 days of not being in this comment thread and seeing Jono still kicking up dust over shit he isnt familiar with, i think the best way to approach all this stuff is to agree to disagree.

    obviously us aussies have a different slant on our countries issues because we are Citizens of Australia, and everyone else knows better and they think they should run the country, i’ll tell you this Ginger and Jono, go for it, enjoy it, i aint gonna stop you.

  • Muttley

    Who is the compiler trying to kid???

    Comments re Australia “continent island (crossed out) country” – – – it IS an Island continent and we are proud of that!

    and

    “…all located on the coast. Very few of the snakes do.”

    Bullshit!

    You can get black snakes, brown snakes, red-bellied black snakes and tiger snakes IN Melbourne itself -and they are ALL in the top 12 deadly snakes on the planet (the Tiger is number two!)

    You can get King Browns in Perth (K.B’s are the third deadliest in the world), Tiger Snakes in Hobart and Launceston as well as Taipan’s (the undisputedly deadliest snake in the world) in the cities of Townsville, Cairns and Rockhampton!

    Nice list but don’t be flippant – you will only come unstuck.

    BTW ANY list compiling the 10 Deadliest Snakes in the World (or anybody considering compiling one) – a short note to consider – – – they all live in Australia!

  • jessi

    Iceland and Suriname look gorgeous.

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  • Muttley

    Jessi – don’t they though – – – – Iceland, particularly was a surprise – the first actual photo I think I’ve ever seen of the country!

  • astraya

    From today’s Sydney Morning Herald, written not by a starry-eyed Australian but by an Englishman who has on occasion been scathing about Australia, Australians, the Australian cricket team and various members of it:
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/cricket/bpeter-roebuckb/2008/11/19/1226770542639.html

  • astraya

    Muttley: don’t be flippant – you will only come unstuck or it might return to bite me!

    Please develop enough intelligence to understand that “very few” does not mean “none”. BTW I have lived in one of those places your mentioned, and did not see a snake in the wild in the time that I was there.

  • astraya

    Muttley: humbled by your declarations of peace on other lists, may I offer my apologies here? I’d already had this conversation with someone else further back, and over-reacted on reading yours. Yes, there are snakes in the urban areas. Sort of yes, they are rarer than in the country areas.

  • bigski

    I live in a rural area of the U.S. south,we got Cottonmouths & Copperheads that`s our only posionous snakes. Also they pretty much don`t live in the city. P.S. they get shot on sight .

  • bigski

    Beautiful pictures very nice list. Peace.

  • Anon

    bigski,

    “P.S. they get shot on sight.”

    Who’d be a snake? Poor beasts.

    Takes tongue out of cheek. I believe the natural equilibrium has been upset following serious attempts in Asia to reduce the snake population for the benefit of field workers in particular, resulting in plagues of rodents.

  • deeh

    Oh for goodness sake. The comments on this list are absolutely ridiculous.

    Yes, I am Australian and I expected Australia to be on this list.

    However, I am also Filipino and can safely say that to generalise and say that we’re all racist is disgusting. Our country happens to thrive upon multiculturalism. Yes, we understand that the race riots, stats and the current ill-treatment of the indigenous peoples remains deplorable – but that isn’t to say we’re all like that.

    Sheesh, get a grip people.

    And Ginger, but we are good for things – you’re just too ignorant to know about them.

  • 162. deeh: There will always be people like Ginger. Many of them.
    Best to ignore them places like this, they have a difficult time learning, not being very bright (usually part of the double-digit crowd).
    I know there are special schools set up for them, but probably their parents were the same, and didn’t notice anything wrong. Schools are over-crowded and people just get shoved from one grade to the next, as long as they don’t call undue attention to themselves.
    Ginger is probably one who fell through the cracks. Not her fault. The system failed her. Sure, she’s ignorant, maybe stupid as well, I don’t have proof of that, though. I’m sad for her. Maybe she could have been helped. We’ll never know.

  • bigski

    I was trying to lighten the mood of previous posters with an absurb statement.

  • Anon

    bigski,

    Know watcha mean. It’s an uphill task, amigo. No names (not even LV names) no pack drill, but maybe some of ’em (the heavies) need shooting instead of the poor wee snakeypoos! Hahahaha!

  • Sitethief

    @maximuz04

    Suriname is an independent country.

  • ashraf

    you missed one. Maldives has a population of 350,000

  • solicitor bulgaria

    aka 10 places a loner would love to live :)

  • Signe

    Hmm, I think that maybe the name Iceland is just a translation gone wrong, not a description of the country. In icelandish (?) the name for Iceland is Lýðveldið Ísland, Ísland problably meaning island as many of the early settlers of Iceland were of Celtic origin. but in Danish, island means “land of ice”, so I’m guessing that the translation just got screwed up along the way…
    just mu guess…

  • hoa

    WOW I would never want to live in any of these countries YAY

  • Georgia

    hahaha yeah the reason Australia is so empty is coz you can’t live anywhere except the coast.
    I live in Sydney where the average summer day is about… 35degrees or something but my friends live in the outback, their average summer day is 50degrees.
    yeah and we used to get red belly black snakes and carpet snakes in my house!

  • me

    gosh gey over snakes!! lot more dangerous things in australia

  • Bell

    Australia is a fucking desert. You can only live on the coast, unless you want to die. Even then, it’s hot. The sun smells like burning flesh.

    Gotta love Australia. =P

  • John

    Ginger loves his sheep because he is a New Zealander.

  • Tyler

    Yay! You should do a post on the most densly populated countries!

  • Ksheu

    If it was reasoned why its Least Densely Populated Nations, it’d b a great help in understand……

  • nicoleredz3

    Great list, Astraya. I just want to live anywhere, where to go visit a neighbour I’d have to take a ten minute drive…

  • Groogle

    lol, several of these are not nations

  • Chevs

    nawww I’m sure New Zealand fits somewhere on there!!!

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  • joan

    hey

  • Our Jo

    I was kinda surprised there are more sparsely populated places than Sahara!

  • gotish

    great to grab this information

  • chopperdframes

    Name

  • cvsrjobs

    Name

  • ipsp

    Name

  • 55Dodgers

    I like the list but strictly speaking the top 3 aren’t actually nations. They’re dependencies or disputed regions, at least by their UN classifications.

  • jo

    Is there a country without problems with HIV? Kinda felt that statement was unnecessary. Nice list otherwise

  • Kobe94

    Iceland is so mountainous that almost all the people reside along the coast, hence, it’s sparsely populated.

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  • ashley

    can someone please explain why Australia is listed as a country and not a continent? Pretty sure there still 7 continents even if they wanted to take a planet away from us.. (they cant pluto is STILL and WILL ALWAYS be a planet.)

  • Just letting you know that in Australia snakes live everywhere. I live on the east coast (about 1.5/2km from the ocean) and we get plenty of venomous snakes here. They are everywhere. Not just in the barren, dusty, remote areas. Be warned.

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