10 Great Offensive Seasons in Major League History
- Published July 26, 2009 by bucslim - 216 Comments
It would be easy to compile a list of great home run hitters or other power statistics for this list. The long ball certainly brings people to the games. But that would ignore other aspects of offensive baseball like hitting for average, speed and base running for doubles and triples as well as stealing bases. Great hitters excel at most of these items and below you’ll find the best of the best. A case could be made that statistics and more to the point, historical statistics matter more in Major League Baseball than in any other sport.
The statistics for this list were gathered from easily accessible sites on the web and a simple comparison was made to determine who should be here. A word on statistics for the uninitiated: Batting average indicates the player’s ability to get a hit of any kind when he’s at bat. RBI’s or ‘runs batted in’ points to a hitter’s ability to get hits to drive players on base to score runs. Slugging percentage is a matter of a player who not only hits, but can hit doubles, triples or home runs. Other statistics will be discussed with each player profile. On a more controversial note, I have not included any players from the steroid era. Or more precisely, players who have been suspected of taking performance enhancing drugs. So you will not see familiar names like Bonds, McGuire, Sosa or Manny. Another controversial aspect of creating this list is trying to compare batters from different eras.
Many factors that should be noted are what ball park they called home, the pitchers they faced, certain rules that were advantageous to hitters or pitchers, dead ball versus live ball era and on and on. I’m sure we’ll hear about that in the comment section as well as “I cannot believe you left off Player X.” Well anybody can look the stats up, and if I’ve missed some, it isn’t because of a lack of research.
Anyone who knows anything at all about baseball knows about Babe Ruth. The Babe revolutionized the game by crushing the ball over the fence in numbers never before dreamed of. In my opinion, his home run record setting season in 1927 where he hit 60 home runs is clearly overshadowed by another record setting season in 1921. He hit 59 home runs, scored 177 runs, tallied 171 RBI’s, had a .378 batting average, 44 doubles, 16 triples and even stole 17 bases. Combine all of that and a gaudy .8463 slugging percentage and 457 total bases touched by the Bambino and you quite simply have the greatest offensive season of all time. Consider that before 1920, the record for home runs in a single season was 27. Ruth hit 54 in 1920 and 59 in 21. Quite the opposite of the steroid laced power hitter of recent times, Babe was eating hot dogs and drinking beer in the dugout after God knows what he did the night before.
Another iconic figure of the New York Yankees famous ‘murderers row,’ was first basemen Lou Gehrig. Gehrig was the model of consistency and durability as he played in 2,130 consecutive games. A record that was recently broken by Cal Ripken in 1995. A close look at his statistics reveals some astonishing numbers because 1927 was probably his best season, but he had plenty of seasons that could have been mentioned. For example, his 184 rbi’s in 1931 still stands as all time best in the American League. His other 1927 statistics are fantastic as well. Starting with a .373 batting average, Gehrig had 218 hits including 52 doubles, 18 triples, 47 homers, 175 rbi’s, scored 149 runs with a 765 slugging percentage and touched 447 total bases.
Jimmy Foxx was one of the most feared hitter of his time. He consistently was among league leaders in slugging and runs batted in. In 1932 he blasted 58 home runs, scored 151 runs and 169 runs batted in. He also finished the season with a .749 slugging percentage and totaled 438 bases. As great as this season was, he followed it up in 1933 by winning the triple crown for batters with a .356 average, 163 rbi’s and 48 home runs. For his efforts, Foxx won back to back MVP honors in 1932 and 1933.
Wilson’s 1930 campaign was one of the best ever in the National League. Wilson set an all time record with 191 runs batted in. A record most consider untouchable. He also hit 56 home runs which was the first time in the National League anyone had ever hit over 50. That record stood until Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa surpassed it in 1998, with the advantage of using steroids of course. His statistics for the 1930 season include a .356 batting average, 146 runs scored, a .722 slugging percentage and 423 total bases on top of the aforementioned home runs and rbi’s.
The Georgia Peach has been regarded by many experts as the greatest hitter of the dead ball era. Many of his records are still tops as of today, including career batting average (.367) career batting titles (11) career runs (2,245) and many others. He was a feared base runner and in 1911 he stole 83 bases which was practically unheard of for that day and age. He lead every major offensive category in 1911 except home runs. He finished the year with a .420 batting average, 248 hits, 147 runs, 127 rbi’s, 83 stolen bases, 47 doubles, 24 triples, a .621 slugging average and 367 total bases. There’s no doubt about Cobb’s ability and sheer will to succeed on the field, however most of his accomplishments have been overshadowed by his surly and racist behavior. His most famous scrape was when he attacked a heckler with one hand missing and several fingers missing on his second hand in the stands. When other fans pleaded him to stop because the man had no hands, Cobb reportedly said, “I don’t care if he has no feet.”
Hornsby became the only man in major league baseball history to hit over 40 home runs and have a batting average over .400 in 1922. Hornsby took full advantage of the new live ball era of baseball in which new rules as well as new balls were introduced that benefited hitters greatly. During that year Hornsby set records for rbi’s – 152, slugging percentage at .722, doubles – 46, hits 250 and runs scored. He also ended the year with an astonishing 450. At the end of his career only Ty Cobb’s batting average of .367 was higher than Hornsby’s career at .358. And according to Wikipedia, Bruce Hornsby is a distant relative of the great ball player.
1930 was certainly a great year for hitters, as we’ve seen from Hack Wilson. Chuck Klein was in his second full season for the Phillies and hit a respectable 40 home runs but also had 59 doubles and sported a .386 batting average. Some of the other numbers are quite ridiculous as well as he scored 158 runs and tallied 250 hits along with a .687 slugging percentage. When the year was done he had touched a total of 445 bases. Probably the most ridiculous fact about all of these fantastic numbers was that he didn’t garner any votes for Most Valuable Player. Klein holds the record for home runs in his first two full season as a major league player at 83.
Musial was simply on fire during the 1948 season. When the dust settled he led every offensive statistic they could come up with except home runs which he was one short of. His batting average of .376 was 43 points ahead of the person in second place. He led the league in hits – 230, doubles – 50, triples – 18, rbi’s – 131, batting average – .376, on base percentage – .450, slugging – .702 and total bases – 429. All leading up to an obvious MVP award, his third. Musial never led the league in home runs, but finished 6th all time at the time of his retirement. Another strange quirk to his fabulous numbers was that he had an equal amount of hits in his home ball park and at away parks – 1,815 hits each. Stan the Man began his career in 1941 with two hits at the plate and finished his career 22 years later with two hits, to which a sportswriter said he hadn’t improved at all.
Joltin’ Joe DiMaggio helped lead the Yankees to 9 World Series Titles in 13 years. In 1937, his sophomore season for the Yankees, DiMaggio blistered the American League blasting 167 rbi’s, scoring 151 runs, 46 home runs with a .346 batting average and touching 418 bases. He led the league in runs scored, homers, slugging percentage and total bases and finished the year in second place for the MVP. And of course the Yankees tallied another World Series Championship. DiMaggio is also well known for marrying Marilyn Monroe and being mentioned in the Simon and Garfunkle song, ‘Mrs. Robinson.’
For a fine example of a modern day hitter, one needs to look no further than Albert Pujols. In 2003, Pujols had one of the best offensive seasons in Cardinal history. He batted .359, with 43 homers, 124 rbi’s, had 212 hits including 51 doubles and a .667 slugging percentage and scored 137 runs. Too bad he finished second in MVP voting to Barry Bonds. Pujols is again on fire in 2009, as his halfway season marks are quite astonishing. As of this date, he already has 32 home runs, 87 rbi’s, scored 73 times, touched 222 bases and a .773 slugging percentage – and the season is only half over. If he continues on this pace it will absolutely rank much better than his already amazing season in 2003.
Other notable seasons not included in the list: Hank Greenburg – 1937 (.668 slugging), Hank Aaron – 1959 (46 doubles, 400 total bases, .636 slugging), Al Simmons – 1925 (43 doubles, .387 average, 392 total bases), George Brett – 1980 (.390 average, 158 runs), Nap Lajoie – 1901 (.426 average, 350 total bases), Mickey Mantle – 1956 (52 home runs, .353 average, .705 slugging, 376 total bases) Willie Mays, 1954, 1955 (1954 – .667 slugging, 377 total bases, 1955 – 51 home runs, .659 slugging, 382 total bases), Frank Robinson – 1962 – (51 doubles, .342 average, .624 slugging, 380 total bases), George Sisler – 1920 ( 257 hits, 49 doubles, 18 triples, .407 average, .632 slugging, 399 total bases), Ichiro Suzuki – 2004 (MLB record 262 hits), Ted Williams – 1941 (Last man to hit over .400 batting average, .735 slugging, 335 total bases), Ricky Henderson – 1982 (130 stolen bases)
























July 26th, 2009 at 1:33 am
i was very suprised to see pujols at the top but i like it
July 26th, 2009 at 1:38 am
Ty Cobb… Ferocious!
July 26th, 2009 at 1:43 am
bucslim: No regular reader of this site is ever going to accuse you of lack of research. The list is well written and displays your passion for the game. I’ll leave it to others to debate the merits or otherwise of the players as my input is necessarily limited.
July 26th, 2009 at 1:50 am
I suspect this list will only appeal to a limited audience. It will be interesting to see how many comments it gets.
July 26th, 2009 at 2:19 am
lol pujols i hope your clean an i really really do dont screw this up
July 26th, 2009 at 2:52 am
Nicely researched list. I dont know a lot about the major leagues but after reading this i at least feel a little more informed than what i was before.
July 26th, 2009 at 3:28 am
Great list, I wouldn’t change the order at all, I especially like Pujols at the top, it is certainly deserved.
July 26th, 2009 at 3:30 am
I saw this same list on a show on the MLB network. except i believe you substitued Albert Pujols for Ted Williams 1941 season.
July 26th, 2009 at 3:43 am
Dimaggio also mentioned many many times in “the old man and the sea” by ernest hemmingway…
July 26th, 2009 at 3:48 am
Well researched bucslim, not my game though, I was at the All Blacks – Springbok rugby game yesterday, and I can tell you the guys in the black jerseys are licking their wounds big time.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:06 am
In the thumbnail photo, Babe Ruth is holding two bats. Isn’t that cheating just a bit?
July 26th, 2009 at 4:08 am
Get’em Joe….
http://fiestamovement.com/agents/view/58
July 26th, 2009 at 4:28 am
how boring is this list, who cares.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:46 am
BS,
(and I do mean BS). Despite your diligent statistical research, this list is still completely subjective. You managed to leave off Hank Aarons great offensive year when he not only hit 715 homers, but lead the league in other offensive categories as well. As a matter of fact, you managed to exclude all Black baseball players from this list then had the nerve to put Pujols on it! You lost some points with me on this list.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:47 am
TED WILLIAMS – 1941 The last man to hit over .400. He hit .406 with 37 HR’s and 120 RBI’s. He walked 147 times for an OBP of .553!!! His adjusted OPS+ (it is weighted to remove home park biases) was 235 which ranks 8th all time after 3 Barry Bonds years(steriods) and 1 Fred Dunlap and 3 Babe Ruth years. Ted ranks second in career OPS+ behind Babe Ruth.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:49 am
To clairfy my earlier comment before everyone jumps all over it:
Aaron didn’t hit 715 homers in one year, but during his career he had some of the most productive seasons in history.
July 26th, 2009 at 5:00 am
as tom said (comment 4)
this post wont interest many people
like here in Australia, we couldn’t give 2 shits less about baseball lol
and im assuming the same with the UK, New Zealand etc…
so yea
my opinion
July 26th, 2009 at 5:01 am
American Baseball***
July 26th, 2009 at 5:33 am
Baseball stats! Nooooooooo!!!!
July 26th, 2009 at 5:34 am
Go Joe! Thanks, bucslim for adding him. Was hoping he would be there.
It was a well researched list. For those players that you left off…IMHO they just don’t make the cut over the ones you listed.
Great list!
July 26th, 2009 at 5:45 am
I’m pretty sure Dimaggio should be number one since every one of his stats, except for batting average is better than Pujols.
July 26th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Oh Yay – another Yank self-gratification list about a sport that they are “World Champions” in a “World Championship (Oh, Sorry, Series!) that no other nation gets to take part in: Maybe we should now do one of the 10 greates AFL Grand Final comebacks – THAT should appeal to at LEAST a similar-sized audience: Or maybe a 10 greatest Petanque (Bouls) grudge matches in history.
NEXT!
July 26th, 2009 at 5:54 am
boring boring, these names mean nothing to 95% of the world
July 26th, 2009 at 6:03 am
Mmmmm…. interesting… NOT
July 26th, 2009 at 6:07 am
I thought it was interesting…
btw- someone told me that Ty Cobb was so mean, that he would sharpen the spikes on his shoes. That way, when he slid into base, no one would stand in his way, or they would get hurt!
July 26th, 2009 at 6:07 am
Shagrat, It’s called the World Series becuase when they first started playing the MLB wanted to entice other countries to play in the “World Championship Series”. Also “no other nation gets to take part in” is a tad misleading. Canada is represented by the Toronto Blue Jays and most countries are or have been at one time been represented by players from their country, its not like we’re playing an elitist game over here.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:23 am
Good to see the Georgia Peach on the list. Nice work, bucslim.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:34 am
very nice list….probably the most exciting season in recent memory for me was the mark macgwire- sammy sosa home run race… you have to admit it made baseball that much more fun to watch(waits for the drug -related comments to show up in later posts…lol)
July 26th, 2009 at 6:38 am
For the next list, do a top 10 most obscure baseball stats to get those Aussies, Brits, New Z’s et al’s off this board.
(Just kidding with y’all.)
July 26th, 2009 at 6:40 am
Yeah, the top 10 drug powered athelets!
July 26th, 2009 at 6:40 am
I find this list very “offensive.” Just kidding. You’re the man, buc! You do know your baseball.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:41 am
athletes.
July 26th, 2009 at 7:07 am
I Love baseball stats, and I was going to rate this list a grandslam until I got to number one! Its been mentioned before, but you really need to dump Pujols and put Ted Williams in. the splendid splinters 1949 season was another that topped pujols.
maybe im biased: cubs fan, so booooooo pujols!
July 26th, 2009 at 7:16 am
Hey there slim. A very good list you got there – although I expected The Babe to be higher. Coming from the UK, I know all my baseball and softball knowledge from watching documentaries and U.S TV shows – so reading through this list was a good refresher. It may seem like trivia, but I do like to know a little bit about everything so that I know what’s what in the world. I also love history.
Ty Cobb – that name strikes a strong cord even today. Tigers caps always remind me of Magnum.
@astraya (11): (That was very nearly a great joke, but just in case you were serious) I think they take two bats to the strike area; swing both; and then choose which ever one they like to hit the ball with…
Additional: If you view only the top half of the Babe photo, he looks like he’s holding a French loaf!
July 26th, 2009 at 7:20 am
I won’t even pretend I didn’t think it… when I pulled up LV to see what the new list was this morning, I read the title “10 Great Offensive Seasons…” and I thought ‘oh great, another potentially controversial list full of drug use, scandals, controversy, etc.’ (I read offensive as a derivative of offended rather than offense-defense). A big surprise for me when it wasn’t a Jerry Springeresque list but not really surprising later when I read that buc was the author of this list. He always produces well researched and well compiled lists. I don’t know much about baseball (aside from the fact that I am growing addicted to visiting the batting cages even though I only hit 2 out of every 10 balls… softballs… on the slow pitch setting) but I still enjoyed reading it.
Good job, buc. Go ahead and scratch your balls in the dugout knowing you did good.
July 26th, 2009 at 7:23 am
Baseball is boring! Might as well be watching soccer.
July 26th, 2009 at 7:39 am
wu-hu! Beizu-baru!
Where the HELL is Teddy Williams?????
Yankees suck.
Go Red Sox.
July 26th, 2009 at 7:47 am
People who don’t appreciate this list because it is “boring” are in desperate need of some imagination. The whole point of listverse is to learn about new and interesting things with which you may not be entirely familiar. Good list bucslim.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:10 am
Ted Williams 1941 Greatest season ever.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:26 am
Pre-WW2 American baseball?
SNOOZE!
July 26th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Steroids has been prevalent in baseball for a lot longer than 15 years. You can’t discredit everything a player did because he is a suspected or even a proven user… do we really believe that Pujols didn’t use in 2003?
July 26th, 2009 at 8:33 am
What about Barry Bonds 2002 season? his numbers were double that of Pujols in almost every catagory
July 26th, 2009 at 8:38 am
There are two Anglophone worlds – one is America and its insecure other half, Canada, and the other is England/South Africa/Australia and New Zealand.
Go Southern Hemisphere! Rooted!
July 26th, 2009 at 8:45 am
As a baseball fan this is the best list i have seen in awhile. Although i think it is pretty much impossible to rank one season over another while bieng objective. There are just too many things to take into account when it comes to baseball stats. Thats kind pf the reason i enjoy them so much.
Another thing i have to say is that i would hope that these were just numbered as such for the purpose of the list and Pujols is not being ranked as having the greatest statistical season. Babe Ruth alone probably has 3-4(off the top of my head) seasons that are superior to any season Pujols has had so far.
Lastly i feel that you left out the most important statistic when you want to show how dominant these seasons were. OPS+ is probably one of my favourite stats to show dominance over the league. See as it is adjusted for park effects and the era in which they played.
Despite my nitpicking that list was awesome, anything that makes me want to go look at baseball stats gets two thumbs up
July 26th, 2009 at 8:49 am
*Mark McGwire
Sorry i just had to point that out since i have seen it misspeled a few times.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:12 am
No Ted Williams? In 1941 Willimas batted .406 with 37 HR, 120 RBI, and 135 runs scored. His .551 on base percentage that year stood for 61 years.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:13 am
The fact that you don’t have Ted William’s 1941 season on here just shows the person who wrote this has no idea what they are talking about. And the fact that you don’t have Bonds on here shows ignorance as well. Bonds had probably six full seasons better than Pujol’s 2003 and that includes his 1993 season when he clearly was not on the juice yet.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:14 am
@46 Alencon
I think it is safe to say that it is impossible to make a list that will please everyone. Pujols this year is more deserving as he is putting up a Ruth eque OPS+.
Just do what i did and go look at baseball stats, you will feel less angry
July 26th, 2009 at 9:16 am
@47 Mike
Just think how boring the list would have been, well to people who dont know much about baseball, to put 3-4 babe ruth seasons, 3-4 bonds seasons and a few ted williams seasons. The whole list would only consist of three players if that were the case.
Hopefully this makes everyone look into these players more.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:20 am
@49 jeremy
Understandable if you want to show some different players, but to have no Ted Williams seasons when there are quite a bit great ones is ridiculous. And to claim that Albert Pujols 2003 season is the best offensive season ever? Seriously? Not even close.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:22 am
@50 Mike
I think it is a case of just coming up with 10 great seasons and having to have a number for the reason of the list. I know i would not want to try and pick any of these seasons over another, although i could have used a little mantle haha
July 26th, 2009 at 9:37 am
I just think they left a few great seasons and added in a season that did not belong at all and placed it number 1. I would add at least one Barry Bonds and Ted Williams season and take off Chuck Klein and Pujols
July 26th, 2009 at 9:39 am
I woulda manned up and made a list of like 100 seasons haha. I dont remember reading anywhere that the lists had to be top ten
July 26th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Kind of surprised to see Pujols at #1. But being a lifelong Cardinals fan I didn’t mind seeing 3 Cardinals in the top 6. Great list!!
July 26th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Here’s what my top ten list would be if we couldn’t have the same guy on here multiple times.
1. Barry Bonds-2004
2. Babe Ruth-1921
3. Ted Williams-1941
4. Mickey Mantle-1956
5. Rogers Hornsby-1922
6. Lou Gehrig-1927
7. Ty Cobb-1911
8. Jimmie Foxx-1932
9. Honus Wagner-1908
10. George Brett-1980
July 26th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Good List. Pujols is the best in the game right now!!! The only thing that I want to point out is that 9 out of 10 of these amazing stats come before 1950 when MLB was essentially an all white gentleman’s club. I’m not taking anything away from these performances but I think that Performances such as Hank Aaron’s in 1963, since integrations of Black Players and Latin American players are more impressive because MLB has been simply better.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:23 am
@ 55 Mike
Honestly i dont care to rank them. I would probably cop out and just go based off of OPS+
For some reason i feel Rickey Henderson deserves some love as well, see thats why it is so hard lol.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Awesome list Bucslim. I love baseball. Played 3rd base back in the day (because I’m stupid enough to crowd the plate when there is threat of a bunt; had more than one seam imprint on my forehead).
Mike G et al: Did you guys not read the intro? Bonds is a steroid/drug user and is therefore excluded. Here’s hoping that Pujols stays/is clean.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am
how could people get offended by a list about baseball? people have such brooms up there ass, its just a sports list jeeeez…..
@Shagrat (22): FYI ITS CALLED THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP because it was the only baseball championship at the time, it truly was a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.
its a great list though!
July 26th, 2009 at 10:46 am
@ 58 Mom
I get where you are coming with for the steroid use but if you want to get into excluding players for having an unfair advantage then you have to exclude all players playing pre 1948 as well. Before integration some of the best players in the world were excluded from playing in the majors. One cant be for sure when estimating stats but had negro/hispanic players been allowed the pitching depth in the league would have been stronger and batters would have had probably between 50-100 at bats per year against stronger opposition. Again that is all ball park but those extra at bats against better pitchers could have very well led to their statistics dropping, probably not dramatically but even so 5 less HR, 15-20 less RBI and a lower average.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Great list Bucslim. I really enjoyed. It was well researched and interesting. There are a couple of players I would like to have seen on there, like Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle, but maybe they did not measure up in a top ten list.
My dad was a Brooklyn Dodger fan when I was a kid, and when they moved to LA, I remember being able to go out there and watch them play for a dollar. They had some of the greatest players in the 50’s and 60’s.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Go, Red Sox!
July 26th, 2009 at 10:52 am
@ 62 pestomama
As a Blue Jays fan i would like to take this time to tell you to shut the hell up and you will most likely burn in hell!
I really am only joking, or am i haha
July 26th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Great list, buc. Figured you’d get some flak about the predominance of pre-Jackie Robinson players. Though there is no denying the numbers these guys put up, it’s interesting to wonder how they’d rank had MLB always been integrated. Certainly they’d still be at or near the top in the offensive stats categories, as they’re all truly great players. That said, and this isn’t at all meant as a criticism mind you, I would’ve liked to see Willy Mays on this list somewhere. IMO he’s the best all-around 5-tool player ever to play the game, though I could be biased having grown up in the SF Bay Area and being a life-long Giants fan.
An interesting side note about Ruth – lots of folks overlook the fact that he was also a great pitcher prior to evolving into the great offensive power that’s he’s best known for. He was a two-time 20-game winner with a career 2.28 ERA.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:33 am
@64 Maggot
Kind of easy to overlook his pitching with what he did with the bat
Woulda had 800+ HR had he started out as a position player.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:51 am
First of all, thank you all for some very interesting comments.
A word of explaination. I submitted this list with no rankings. But it’s obvious to me that Ruth belongs at number one, NOT Pujols or anyone else in the rank they were given. Secondly, I included a bonus section in my submission detailing many other players and statistics worth considering. (including Williams 41 season) I’m not sure why it wasn’t included. So I hope you all will keep that in mind.
Lastly, I’m certainly aware there are other sports from other countries that have great athletes that are worth discussing. I respect your opinion on them. Yes, baseball is popular iin the US. I feel that this site needs sports lists for a change of pace now and again. I learn plenty reading about sports I know nothing about.
So hopfully my trivial list wiil educate those of you who haven’t heard these names before.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:57 am
also – my internet is down today so I’m reading and writing all this from my mobile. Fat fingers and small QWERTY don’t mix
July 26th, 2009 at 11:59 am
@ Bucslim
I am really glad that when you made the list there were no rankings included. I find it way too hard to rank things such as best season etc.
Is there anyway you can post the list the way it was written so that we can see all that was included?
July 26th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Well I don’t have anything to do with how the list was posted. But I’ll try to contact Jamie and see if it can be edited. Which would make some of the comments a little weird.
Thanks for the note.
July 26th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Okay – my mistake – the extra rankings are now included – sorry for missing them off.
July 26th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Now i hope everyone on here sees those names then goes to http://www.baseballreference.com and looks at these players more in depth. you wont regret it
July 26th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
I cannot believe you guys actually believe Babe Ruth existed. He has obviously been exaggerated it a great deal in any case. That’s why they call him a LEGEND. Have any of you ever seen him? Didn’t think so. LOL. Sorry, I didn’t have time to comment on the religous posts of the previous lists.
July 26th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS7Iq_I0i6M
There ya go mr atheist. Proof of the Babe
July 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
good job buc, as usual.
i was starting to wonder if pujols was going to get any love. although, glad to see that you didn’t put the order to it.
my favorite thing when talking about albert. a sign seen in the 2003 playoffs…
“hey albert, stick it in their pujols”
July 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I’m not a diehard baseball fan but I still found this list rather interesting. good job.
July 26th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
I like the list…I might have changed the order, but since it wasn’t “Top 10,” you can get away with having the Machine at the top of the list.
I think your honorable mentions list should include Alex Rodriguez’s 1996 season, Pete Rose’s 1973 season, and Frank Thomas in 1994 and 1995.
Not to mention the Kid in 1997.
-wtk
July 26th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Great list! I was surprised that I had to scroll down to comment No. 17 before encountering the usual geo-cultural critical thread that always accompanies this type of list. If you don’t like the list try next time not clicking on it.
July 26th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
This list is boring
Baseball is boring
July 26th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
BORING LIST
July 26th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Steroids or no steroids, I cannot believe that you did not include Barry Bonds’s 2001 or 2004 season. The man hits 73 home runs in 2001 not to mention his 129 runs and 137 RBIs and no love. Then in 2004, his batting average is .362, he gets walked 232 times, his on-base percentage is .609 (yes you read that correctly), and his OPS is 1.422! There was never a more feared hitter in the game of baseball than Barry Bonds in 2004 PERIOD!
July 26th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I’m from the uk and i must say the i always enjoyed wathing baseball,until channel 5 removed it the b******s.Dont really understand all the stats but i know a good game when i see it, so well done bucslim.
Btw anyone know how the Tigers are doing?
July 26th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
what?!?!?! no ted williams??? idk maybe its just cause im a boston fan or something but whatever, still an awesome list to come home too. excellent work bucslim!!!
July 26th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
@ iknownothing
If you have internet access you can check to see how the tigers are doing…..
July 26th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
I agree that Ted Williams 1941 season should have been mention. In fact, despite having to take time off for two wars, he still is considered to be one of, if not the best hitter of all time. Had he played instead of going to war it’s pretty obvious he would have had captured most of the hitting records.
And for those who say baseball is boring, as many did on my pitcher’s list, you have no idea what you’re missing. It is actually very interesting and exciting if you know what’s going on.
It’s very easy to insult something you don’t understand.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Nice list, bucslim!
Re: #41 John: if you think Pujols was on the juice in 2003 or now, you don’t know the man. Take a look at rookie vs. retiring pictures of Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa. Then take a look at rookie vs. current pictures of Pujols. That’ll tell you the whole story.
#82 iknownothing: the Tigers are 52 – 44 and lead their division by three games.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
How can you have a DiMaggio entry without mentioning his 56 game hitting streak?! The word ‘hit’ isn’t even in the entry. Unforgivable.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
@ 87 Tom Wang
Seeing as his hitting streak wasn’t in 1937 i dont see a reason why the hit streak should have been mentioned. Plus that hitting streak totally overrated the season he had. It was a fantastic season in 41 but because of the hitting streak it gets overrated.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
its just that he mentioned stat’s deemed ‘untouchable’. If you look at the list behind Joe’s record no one is even close (Pete Rose is closest in 30 years with 44). It deserves an acknowledgment I think.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
When you read the stats it’s clear the order is in reverse. Flip it . Ruth(21)#1.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
@mom424: I did read the intro, but I did mention that even Bond’s 1993 season could be included over Pujol’s 2003 season and people agree that there is no way he was on roids then. And even though Bonds did do steroids, it is wrong to take him out of the consideration. Steroids helped him hit a few more home runs, yes, but they did not help with hand-eye coordination and his swing which are the two most important aspects of hitting. Completely disregarding him because of his steroid-use is wrong.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
@91 Mike G
IMO i think the only reason bonds season sticks out so much while on steroids is because he was so incredibly talented to begin with.
In all honesty i think the reason people are so upset about steroids is because records are being broke. Most people would not care about baseball players using steroids if some of the most beloved records had not fallen in the past 15 years. Brady Anderson is an example. he has a year where he hit 50 homeruns then did not approach even half that number in any other year. Noone seems to ever bring that up, it is always Bonds, McGwire,Sosa,Palmeiro and Clemens.
And yes i know that Brady Anderson was not linked to steroids but there was something fishy about that season.
July 26th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I knew I had seen this list somewhere before. I went back to check on the MLB network and they aired the special ” best offensive season by position.”
A little different then this one but almost the same. Ruth, cobb, gehrig dimaggio, hornsby, and hack wilson were all featured. i saw like two months ago
July 26th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
@93 Rolo
Are you trying to say that he plagerized it? Cause it kind of sounds accusatory on your behalf. Maybe i just read that wrong.??
July 26th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
maybe you thought of this topic independently. most likely you saw the special. BTW the MLB network is a godsend. If you are a baseball fan do yourself a favor and check it out. If you have I.O its channel 149 or 400 (in the New York area i dont know about the rest of the country)
July 26th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
no im not saying he plagerized it. because some entries were different (like piazza having best offensive season by catcher) but 7 of the entries are the same. like I said maybe he came up with the topic by sheer coincidence but i doubt it
July 26th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
So you dont think people can have their own thoughts and come up with a list idea on their own?
July 26th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
i dont know that guy and i have no idea about his thoughts and ideas. if he did copy it i dont care. if he didnt copy i dont care either. im just stating a fact. you take it how u want
July 26th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
i guess suspested roid users were not considered
July 26th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
i could be mistaken because i heard this from my dad that albert belle had more extra base hits than anyone in one year he beat out stan musial for that honor.stan was my dad’s favorite so it kind of upset him to no end.maybe i should look up those facts but im too lazy.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
@100 Charlie
If i am not mistaken Albert Bell is the only person who hit both 50 HR and 50 Doubles in one season. as far as extra base hits go Musial is tied for sixth for a season with 103. Ruth leads the way with 119.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
oops like i said i stand corrected. albert belle is tied for 6th that is what i get for listening to my father.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Although Belle was the first person to exceed 100 extra base hits in a year since since 1948. Maybe thats what he was getting at….
July 26th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
And the good list streak is broken!!
July 26th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Ok, hate to do this, but it’s Jimmie. With an I. Anyhoo, I’m surprised that honus wagner’s 1908 season wasn’t included; as, in context, it’s the best of the dead ball era. As a young sabermetrician and fanatic (go bosox!), huge props on the list – I may submit a worst teams of all time list soon. We’ll see.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Bosoxfanzz
I think he got it right by having Cobb representing the dead ball era, although the actual season of Cobbs to use could be up for discussion.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Nice list. I think we should have way more sports lists. To bad the Pirates ruined baseball for me.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
“Baseball is made up of very few big and dramatic moments, but rather it’s a beautifully put together pattern of countless little subtleties that finally add up to the big moment, and you have to be well-versed in the game to truly appreciate them.”
That’s for the people screaming “boring”.
As for the Bonds supporters:
Bucslim asked me to look at a preliminary list before compiling this one, which included Barry Bonds. I suggested that he keep all steroid users off the list. If we can’t keep the game clean, we can try and keep the way a fan looks at the game clean.
For those who say that steroids don’t help you hit the ball:
They seem to help them hit it further though. If Barry Bonds hadn’t been on the juice, how many of his homerun balls would have fallen short and been long fly outs?
Hopefully for everyone, Bud Selig grows a pair and gives the players some strict penalties. Instead of 50 games, how about we adopt the cycling rule: 2 years for first offense, life for the 2nd offense. And I would add an automatic exclusion from any hall of fame vote.
@92 Jeremy: People aren’t mad becuase records are being broken. If Pujols or Howard end up breaking the home run record, people will celebrate. People are mad because the game is no longer sincere the way it used to be. It presents itself as the American, clean, simple, sport. They look down at the players and think, “I could do that”. If you watch American football, the players are padded up and massive, they barely look human, more machine. Basketball players have to be 7 feet tall. Baseball is the sport for everyone else, its the sport they played as children, and listened to on the radio late at night. Or at least, so we though, until the steroid scandal broke. And most real fans were left heartbroken. People are mad because they’d been lied to.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Jeremy
I dunno, cobb’s 1912 or 1911 would have been my second choice, but Wagner in ‘08 was just so far ahead of his peers that I think he belongs here. But, hey, my choice. And for the two-bat confusion, that photo was taken in the on-deck circle, where some batters have been known to swing up to four bats to build up arm strength immediately prior to an at-bat.
Also, I just realized that my user name gives away my affiliation, and thus stating it was unnecessary.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Ted Williams’s 1941 season has to be in front of pujols. also rodger maris’s 1961 season to break ruth’s record. and rickey henderson’s 1982 season with 130 stolen bases
July 26th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
@108 randomprecission
“People are mad because the game is no longer sincere the way it used to be.”
Sincere as in excluding coloured players for 60ish years
Simcere as in doctoring baseballs, which was clearly against the rules.
Sincere as in taking greenies(amphetamines)
People are mad cause they had been lied to, I remember when McGwire was breaking records and they found Andro in his locker. Noone cared at that point that he was taking HGH or steroids, whatever it was, they were just so happy to see the game flourishing again.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
@109 bosox
Well i hate you for being a bo sox fan, you guys should give us lester for Halladay. Hell we will even throw in wells haha
What do you use as a way to judge how far above his peers the season was. At quick glance i go by OPS+ just cause it is easier. Going by that Cobb had a few seasons that were up around the 205ish area for that.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
@110 daviomaster
In all honesty Maris in 61 was not that great of a season when you stack it up to the other seasons on this list. Apart from his HR and RBI Pujols had more Runs, Hits, doubles, a higher average, on base percent, more total bases and a higher OPS+.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Nice list. I don’t care much for Albert Pujols, but that’s simply because I’m an Astros fan. I completely agree with keeping the steroid users off of the list. I realize that baseball hasn’t been a “perfect” game, but… breaking “hallowed” records by cheating is unacceptable. Personally I think they should all be banned for life and stripped of any Hall of Fame consideration.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
@jeremy (111): Simcere as in doctoring baseballs, which was clearly against the rules.
Sincere as in taking greenies(amphetamines)
Exactly. Cheating has always been part of the game. Anything to get an edge, from stealing signs to groundskeepers tailoring the field conditions to favor the home team. Norm Cash admitted to using a corked bat in 1961 when he won the AL batting title with a .361 avg. Albert Belle, who’s hitting prowess was discussed a few posts back in this comments thread, was also a highly suspected corker. Hell, Gaylord Perry wouldn’t be in the Hall without having employed a spitter during his career. I’m not advocating steroid use here, but rather pointing out the fallacy of those clinging to the notion that the game used to be clean or pure prior to the steroid era.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
@115 Maggot
Lets not forget that they built Ruth his own stadium with a very short right porch so that he could hit more home runs.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
@jeremy (116): (Old) Yankee Stadium, aka “The house that Ruth built”.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
@117 Maggot
(New)Yankee Stadium i could probably hit 15 a year in. My left handed swing would work perfect with their wind problem or whatever it is haha
July 27th, 2009 at 12:31 am
hopefully no.1 isnt on roids lol
July 27th, 2009 at 3:21 am
Man, does anyone else find the comments of this website to be more annoying than any other website on the internet?
“this list won’t interest many people!”
“this list is SO american!”
“um, most of the world doesn’t watch american baseball!”
“self-indulgent american crap!”
“baseball is SO boring!”
Anyone with half a brain would know that if a list doesn’t interest you, don’t comment on it.
And news flash – if you complain about a baseball list being “too American”, it makes YOU a xenophobe, not the author.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:49 am
Referring back to my previous comment at (5) above, I considered that there might not be too many comments for this list as the subject was of limited interest to many Listverse readers. Even though the list of comments has now reached 121, I still think it is of limited interest. Jeremy has managed to increase the tally of comments by contributing 24 times. Well done. Without his sterling contributions, this would have been one of the lower commented lists in the site. For the record, I am not a baseball fan and do not have any particular interest in. Though I fully understand its appeal to many others and respect them for that. Just not my cup of tea – my interest lay elsewhere. A final comment from me – great site, great lists and great fun reading through the comments, especially on some of the more contentious subjects.
July 27th, 2009 at 6:32 am
stop whining about it being american, dont we have to put up with your rugby stuff?
July 27th, 2009 at 6:48 am
Great site, I now have you bookmarked to come back again.
July 27th, 2009 at 6:58 am
For a supposed baseball fan, you sure did spell a number of players’ names incorrectly.
July 27th, 2009 at 6:58 am
I know it’s not MLB, but I think you should add a bonus for Josh Gibson’s ‘37 season… 39 runs, 41 hits, 7 doubles, 4 triples, 13 homers, 36 rbi’s, 17 walks, .423 avg and .979 slg… oh, and he only played in 25 games. No tellin what the dude coulda done in the MLB and no telling what his stats woulda been if they actually kept them the whole time he played.
July 27th, 2009 at 7:23 am
For more on Hack Wilson, go to his official site: Hack191.com
July 27th, 2009 at 7:32 am
I also love the fact that people are happy that they left of the steroid users and at the same time are happy that Pujols is #1. I know it’s purely conjecture, but that dude is on something, and it’s sad cuz he’s an amazing “pure hitter” and the best in the game right now.
July 27th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Albert Pujols? You’ve got to be kidding me. Sure, he’s a great player. Not even close to Ted Williams. The only St. Louis players that belong on this list are Stan Musial and Rogers Hornsby. Go kill yourself.
July 27th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Compiling a list of players from the last 120 years isnt really a good comparison. With all the changes in the game, and changes in players. This list should be cut in half, “players before 1950, and players after 1950″. This would show a more accurate comparison of stats.
July 27th, 2009 at 9:21 am
@Tom (121): Even though the list of comments has now reached 121, I still think it is of limited interest. Jeremy has managed to increase the tally of comments by contributing 24 times. Well done. Without his sterling contributions, this would have been one of the lower commented lists in the site.
Why is it so important to you to keep dwelling on this? Other lists have limited interests as well, why aren’t you whining about those? Book, movie, and music genres, to name a few examples. No single list appeals to everyone. And it is not at all uncommon for commentors to post multiple times in the same list, especially if they happen to be in a back-and-forth thread convo about something that interests them. What’s the big deal? More importantly, the listwriter is clearly passionate about the subject, as evidenced by the quality of the material presented. In short, give it a rest and move on to another list if you don’t like this one.
Just not my cup of tea – my interest lay elsewhere. A final comment from me…
Thank goodness…we wouldn’t want you to be artificially padding the comment tally, now would we…
July 27th, 2009 at 9:49 am
The top 10 offensive season of all time were achieved by 3 men. I understand the idea of not wanting the same players over and over again, but to not put two of those men on the list is ridiculous. Bonds and Williams belong on the list, no exceptions. Mickey also deserves better than just honorable mention. And McGwire, Bagwell, Thomas, McCovey, Lajoie and Wagner all deserve at least honorable mentions. Oh, and Chuck Klein doesn’t belong anywhere near this list (he wasn’t even one of the top 5 hitters in 1930, let alone top 10 in the entire history of baseball).
July 27th, 2009 at 10:19 am
@Tom (121):
Even though your comments have been addressed directly or indirectly a few times now, I still think it is of limited interest. You have managed to increase the tally of comments by contributing two times to a list you have zero interest in. Well done. Without your sterling contributions, you would have minimally but still somewhat helped your original hypothesis that this list would garner a pittance of comments.
Interesting how you say a list with 97 comments or less is in some way inferior to the other lists here, particularly those with an overflow of troll comments. I’d like to see you create a list with the sole purpose of generating comments of interest. Yes, I’d like to see what list that would be and the quality of the content that lay within.
And for the record, limited interest only applies to those with closed minds unable to tolerate even something as passive as reading about an unfamiliar subject or unable to tolerate the fact that others may not share your same interests. I, myself, am a baseball ignoramous but enjoyed the fact that bucslim wrote the list in such a way that laymans like myself aren’t overwhelmed…like I’m beginning to get with all the names and stats in the comments! But it’s still an interesting read through the comments because they’re intellegent contributions.
…Well, most of them are, anyway…
July 27th, 2009 at 10:24 am
@132 gabi
you should go to the website baseballreference.com and look up the players if you are becoming more interested in them. It truly is a good time
well to stat geeks like me
July 27th, 2009 at 10:26 am
It takes a smart person to understand the game of baseball. Some just aren’t prepared for the challenge.
Gabi, that was a very interesting post, but I’m afraid all of it was lost on the idiot it was intended for. Unfortunate, yes, but I’m not sure I would want to share interests with someone like that cat anyhow.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:26 am
@z (131): Chuck Klein doesn’t belong anywhere near this list (he wasn’t even one of the top 5 hitters in 1930
Wrong, in 1930 he was in the top 5 in many hitting categories, and led the league in a couple. Do some research before you spout off.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1930-batting-leaders.shtml
July 27th, 2009 at 10:28 am
This is really the only list in a long time where i could actually come up with intelligent posts throughout the entire discussion haha
July 27th, 2009 at 10:44 am
#86, timbucto…
Re: #41 John: if you think Pujols was on the juice in 2003 or now, you don’t know the man. Take a look at rookie vs. retiring pictures of Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa. Then take a look at rookie vs. current pictures of Pujols. That’ll tell you the whole story.
If you knew what fat Albert looked like in his juco/community college years, you would retract that statement. He’s on something. HGH? Horse tranqs? It’ll come out eventually. Manny never got any bigger. A Fraud has been pretty close to the same size all along. Palmeiro. You don’t have to get a lot bigger to get a lot stronger, and HGH still isn’t traceable… As a baseball fan for my entire life, I hope Pujols is clean because, if so, we’re watching one of the best of all time. I just have a hrad time believing that he isn’t on something, along with a lot of other players that haven’t tested positive yet.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:46 am
@136 Cannon
Shut your mouth, you can think Pujos is on something but never ever ever say it out loud haha. Everyone wants to believe he is clean, because honesltly he is the best hitter since Ted Williams IMO. And when i say overal i mean at every facet of hitting rather then just excelling in one area.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:47 am
It might have been said, but Ty Cobb’s career run record was actually 2,246, and it has been broken by Rickey Henderson with 2,295 runs.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Jeremy, the dude can flat out rake. That’s why I hope, for baseball’s sake, he’s clean. I just don’t see it happening that way.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Interesting baseball side note… I saw today that Bud Selig is considering lifting Pete Rose’s lifetime ban. Wonder if he’d be voted into the HOF, if that were to happen.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:56 am
@ Cannon
Shhhh about Pujols, its like when a pitcher has a no hitter or perfect game going on.
And Pete Rose. Hell yeah, after all these years you may even see him being unanimous. I dont see it happening but for nostalgia sake
July 27th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Hey, I don’t mind if he keeps hitting, cuz for some odd reason, he can never hit against my Mets… Well, not for a .340 clip like he does to the rest of the league.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:00 am
@ Cannon
Yeah but you cant bring up the steroids thing.
Would you agree though, best pure hitter since Ted Williams? I mean even Bonds wasnt the pure hitter that Pujols is
July 27th, 2009 at 11:08 am
There have been some amazing hitters since Teddy Ballgame. Gwynn, Carew and even Pete Rose. I would probably agree that Pooholes (heh) is one of the best since the Thumper, but I will need to see his entire career play out, and barring no positive tests (sorry for mentioning it again) he definitely has the hand/eye, bat speed and ridiculous knowledge of the game and it’s situations, to be the best since the Splendid Splinter.
Hmmmm, well, no way to work in the other nickname, so… the Kid.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Yeah there have been plenty of amazing hitters, but none that have put everything together so well. All those guys you mentioned were contact/average hitters with high hit totals and not much to speak of as far as power numbers go. I mean Pujols is top 3 in league history, or something like that, for his first 8 years. It really doesnt look like he is going to start declining anytime soon either.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:21 am
See? That last sentence is what brings up the PEDs… and, pure hitter doesn’t necessarily mean power numbers, IMO. Look, I’m not gonna argue against Albie. The dude can flat out hit and hit well.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Ty cobb does not have the most career runs scored, rickey henderson does. He has 2295, cobb 2246, just a side note…
July 27th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Sorry I’ve been absent from commenting here.
Once again I must point out that I originally submitted this list with no rankings whatsoever. So I hope that people will understand that I meant the title of this list sincerely, they are great seasons. And whether your guy didn’t make the list because I listed someone else, you have to admit this isn’t an easy list to compile. What criteria are you going to use to distinguish what gets listed and what doesn’t? Do you make it by position, career etc?
I probably should have mentioned DiMaggio’s hitting streak. I probably should have looked into a few more modern players to list. Perhaps I should have looked a little closer at Bonds before his suspected steroid use.
Well I didn’t and I’m not sorry. My pitchers list included Roger Clemons and I caught all kinds of hell for that despite the fact I didn’t want to list him anyway.
As for Ted’s comment #121, I have no idea why you even come to this site. Surely every list that shows up here isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. As far as I’m concerned, this site is tailor made for sports lists, and especially baseball. I’ll try to send you a PM the next time I submit another list about baseball so you can be sure to go elsewhere that day.
As for those who disagree with my choices, I encourage you to think of the best hitters ever, look up the stats and figure it out for yourself. It isn’t easy, because you have to take into account ball park, era and what numbers mean the most to you. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would say that the folks I’ve chosen don’t belong here. The numbers speak for themselves, especially total bases. If you think about it, that is exactly what offensive baseball is really about – getting around the bases.
Thanks to jeremy and gabi for having my back. Sorry about the misspellings.
July 27th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
I loved the list. I’ve only commented on 2 lists so far and both were baseball lists. No one is ever gonna have the exact same 10 guys and that’s what makes it so much fun. Everyone has their opinion and everyone has the one guy that no one else wants on there. Buc, you did a terrific job and you did some great research for this list. I disagreed with Pujols for personal reasons. Obviously the dude can hit. Like I said a couple times, I hope he’s clean cuz I enjoy watching him hit against everyone but my Mets. Keep up the good work slim. I had your back as well
July 27th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
@MT (14): commented earlier about the lack of ethnic diversity on this list. What’s tragic is that many of the players from the so called “Negro League” may have been eligible for this list. Sadly the racism of the times kept them off the Major League teams. One interesting fact; the stadium/team owners made a profit off of the “Negro” League teams by renting their stadiums to them. The money to be made contributed to why they were slow to integrate the teams.
July 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Thanks Cannons11 – no slight intended. I need all the friends I can get. And as a lifelong Astros fan, I’m not big on Pujols either.
I wished that whole steroids thing would just go away so we can all enjoy the game. It sucks now because when you see a freak like Pujols, that thing is going to creep into your mind. Is he or isn’t he? Surely no one could hit like that without some ‘help?’ Like I said in the Babe’s profile, he did it in spite of the way he lived. Think of the numbers if he was on the juice.
July 27th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Thanks, you guys! What can I say… I may not know much about baseball but how can I hate a sport that created the batting cages where I go grab a bat and hit two balls? …of every ten balls the machine gives me, of course. I wasn’t thinking anything dirty.
ok, this is the second time I’ve read in the comments about considering the ball park when analyzing stats. Are they really that significantly different? How so? Is it the environment created by the fans? Or something akin to the differences of turf in football and ice in hockey?
July 27th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
The dimensions in the pars are considerably different from city to city… not to mention how much smaller most of the parks are, compared to the years of Ruth, Mantle, etc… Then you get into elevation, weather, blah blah blah. It’s what makes baseball discussions so much fun. Another thing to consider is the way the game, today, has been taken away from the pitchers. Players on this list (minus pooholes of course) were hitting against pitchers that threw spitballs, and used numerous “foreign objects” that would get them suspended today. It’s all subjective and makes for very interesting rhetoric, quite obviously.
July 27th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
The mound was lowered, the ball is MUCH harder now than in years past. It’s way too hard to make a list of just 10 seasons out of the 100 plus years and 100 plus players that have played the game, just in the MLB. It’s been mentioned a couple times (once by me) about the talent that never made it into the MLB due to racism. Josh Gibson was absolute beast and hit some monster shots, yet he dies a few months after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier… Geez, I love baseball!!!!
July 27th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Ok, that was obviously suppose to say “1000 plus players”
my bad
July 27th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Bucslim: are u not gonna address the fact that you took this list from a show on the MLB network. Give credit where credit is due
July 27th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
gabi – they are different, and smart owners build their team to suit whatever conditions they have at the ballpark.
I said I was an Astros fan – back in the day the Astrodome was probably the best ‘pitchers’ park in the National league. The ‘power alleys’ – the distance from home plate to a traditional place in all ball parks where home runs occur most of the time were 370 feet. What this means is that even the best home run hitters would have to crush the ball to get a homer. So the Astros would build their team based upon pitching and speed. They’d try to get a runner on, and then hit singles or steal bases to get him home, instead of relying on a home run or a power hitter to drive them in. This is called ’small ball’ in baseball and the games would typically end in low scores.
If you take all of this into account, Coors Field in Denver has relatively the same distances in the power allies, but has routinely been the park where the most home runs are hit due to the thin air.
July 27th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
@157 Rolo
Sorry buddy but shut up.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Gabi – One of the big things with Dimaggio as well is that left field in Old Yankee stadium was something like 350(??) down the line and 475 feet or something like that to the pwer alley (located between the left field foul pole and center field). So basically a hit that is a for sure homerun in any other park, especially nowadays would just be a long long fly ball.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
@ Cannon
I guess i shouldnt have said pure hitter, i meant overall hitter. Hitting for high average/power etc.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Rolo, I emphatically did NOT take this list from whatever show you’re talking about. I never saw it, never heard about it until I read your post earlier today. I’ve been working on this list for some time, RandomPrecision can attest to that, and has the PM’s to prove it.
You’re assertion is NOT a fact. You even admitted that some of the entries are different in your post #97. You said they did it by position, I did it by statistical research to find what I considered to be the best, regardless of position. If I indeed took it from whatever program you’re talking about, it would have been identical. I spent hours going over statistics and profiles and wrote everything myself. Even if it is similar, so what? I don’t see the MLB network publishing lists on the Listverse. So I have some entries that are the same? They came up with similar conclusions. Whoop de doo!
I do not get the MLB network anyway.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Right on. Pujols is definitely gonna be in consideration as long as he’s clean.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I hate that the Cardinals have Pujols and who do we get up here with the Blue Jays to watch. Vernon Wells pop out or strike out
July 27th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Alex Rios
July 27th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
@165 Cannon
Do you want me to break your legs……
July 27th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
That would suck…
July 27th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
These players with their 85-90 OPS+ are what we are all about up in Canada. What is Pujols at, like 207
July 27th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@ Bucslim
You should do one for the top ten players in league history, that would be fun
July 27th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
@gabi319 (153): ok, this is the second time I’ve read in the comments about considering the ball park when analyzing stats. Are they really that significantly different? How so?
The main difference is in the field dimensions. Interestingly, baseball is one of the few sports where field dimensions are not standardized. Mostly in terms of the outfield wall distance from home plate (infield base distances are set). Some are closer that others (there are min distance requirements, but that’s it). The “short porch” Jeremy mentions to in his post #116 refers to the Yankee Stadium right field wall being exceptionally close in, thus favoring lefty power hitters (i.e. Ruth). The famed “Green Monster” at Fenway is another example, where the wall is also close in, but in effort to compensate for it, they made the wall really high. The other consideration is the foul territory. Lots of older stadiums, in particular ones that doubled as football stadiums, had lots of space outside of the baselines before you got to the stands. Foul pop-ups into that area could be caught more often, whereas in todays smaller baseball-only parks, those balls go into the stands, extending the life of the guy at bat. Last thing I’ll mention – Coors field in Denver was notoriously a “hitter’s park” because of the higher altitude. Balls tended to fly out of there. Nowadays, I think they still do this – the game balls are stored in a humidifier so as to deaden them slightly in effort to compensate for that.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
@170 Maggot
Yeah from what i know they still store the balls in a humidifier before games. Now the biggest bandbox (homerun park) is New Yankee stadium because of some wind flow problem i believe it is.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Well I’d have to crack the books on that one jeremy. That would be some good reading. Are you talking like career stats? That would lead to some interesting discussion, like the Bill James thing about career vs. peak value.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Bucslim
I was not talking about career stats, although they would have some of the best stats of course. I mean the top ten players in league history overal. There are plenty of lists out there already. I think most people have a top ten that consists of these players in some order.
Babe Ruth
Willie Mays
Lou Gehrig
Ty Cobb
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Cy Young
Joe Dimaggio
Barry Bonds (Shut up everyone haha)
Ted William
Rogers Hornsby
Mickey Mantle
Honus Wagner
Hank Aaron
I am sure i missed a few
I dont know, it is kind of a tough list to come up with, you would probably need a good deal of help haha. anyone would.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
You also get into “new stats” alot of the players on this list never got to take advantage of sacrifice flies. Players not get an rbi and no official atbat, when players before just got an out and it counted against their average… Just another reason lists like these are so much fun. It makes for some very interesting discussions.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
@Maggot (135): I agree that he is in the top five in many offensive categories from 1930. It doesn’t change the fact that there were hitters superior to him in the league that year. A proper analysis shouldn’t end with how many times a player appeared on certain leaderboards. Hack Wilson, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Babe Herman were all clearly better hitters that season. One could also make the case that Bill Terry had a better season. I also don’t appreciate the implication that I haven’t done research or that I don’t know what I’m talking about simply because you don’t agree with me.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I love baseball, GO REDS!!! too bad we cent stop getting injured this season…
July 27th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
@bucslim (158): I said I was an Astros fan – back in the day the Astrodome was probably the best ‘pitchers’ park in the National league.
Lol, got to love its replacement Enron, sorry Minute-Maid Park, with the hill and a flag-pole in dead center, all in fair territory!
July 27th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Its interesting your jabs at steroids. With a little more research you will find that doping has been around since the late 19th century. A pitcher in the 1880’s used monkey testosterone to boost his game. Baseball players have always used performance enhancing drug. In the early days many used amphetamines to boost their game. Mickey Mantle had to sit out of a home run derby because of lesions developed from such use.
July 27th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
@z (175): Hack Wilson, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Babe Herman were all clearly better hitters that season. One could also make the case that Bill Terry had a better season.
Well I wouldn’t say “clearly”. But such is the fun of baseball and debating stats. Besides, you just threw Terry in there to keep Klein out of this subjective top 5 in order to win your point.
Yeah Terry batted for average, but is nowhere to be found in allot of the important run-producing categories, whereas Klein is definately top 5.
I also don’t appreciate the implication that I haven’t done research or that I don’t know what I’m talking about
Meh, I was just feeling feisty after my reply to that Tom guy. Sorry.
July 27th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Babe Ruth would have hit more homeruns if he had a glossberry
July 27th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Bucslim.
Mlb network just happened to put on a half hour special on greatest statistical seasons with 7 0r 8 of the exact same entries. granted two or different.
but still there is some poor schmoe who works on the MLB network who put in a lot of hardwork to put together a list so someone dude can rip it off and call it his own without even giving a mention.
i dont think thats cool, but whatever if you say its all one big coincidence i guess i really cant disprove it. besides your boyfriend Jeremy seems to believe you so i guess thats all that matters.
July 27th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
@Rolo Tomasi (181): Damn, man. I think buc has adequately described his process for developing his list, independantly. Makes perfect sense that “7 or 8″ might happen to be the same player/seasons as this MLBN thing…we all have the same set of stats at our disposal, those are in fact the best seasons. You think MLB Network is the first to ever think of making up such a list? Who do you accuse them of copying? Wtf is your problem? Let it go, dude.
July 27th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
ok Maggot (whats up with that name) if nobody cares then fine. anyway he did rewrite all the entries so i guess he can call it his list.
Honus Wagners 1908 season and Barry Bonds 2002 season should replace Pujols and Stan Musial. I can see disregarding Wagner but why leave out Bonds. If the author has some sort of “non steroid user” criteria he didnt show it when he put Clemens one a top pithers of all time list.
im confused statistically Bonds season was one of the best ever without any doubt
July 27th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
@MT (14): Look at Aaron’s career seasons…he was the model of consistency, but he never had a season near these listed, and that’s coming from a diehard Braves fan.
As for the rest, sorry, Pujols’ season comes nowhere near pretty much all the others listed. Dimaggio’s, as well, is far overrated. I guess for my money I’d go with ‘21 Babe first, ‘27 Gherig second, and ‘30 Hack third.
July 27th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Rolo – I don’t know how to put it any clearer than I did. I didn’t watch the program. I don’t have MLB network. I had no idea they did something similar. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I have no idea why you insist on continuing with this bullshit argument. I didn’t rip anyone off, I researched it independently and came up with my own list.
And I will refuse to put Barry Bonds on any list save the ones about the biggest cheaters in the history of baseball. Barry Bonds would have been on this list if only he could have stayed away from cheating. He was probably the best player/hitter of the last twenty years before he decided to cheat. He had absolutely no reason to do it other than ego. He is a disgrace to everyone who laced up the cleats, worked their ass off, got a few breaks and played the game fairly. He was most certainly a first ballot Hall of Famer if his career ended without this shadow of cheating. Now it’s doubtful he’ll ever get in. On top of that, he’s a complete jackass with the world’s biggest chip on his shoulder. Ty Cobb was nasty son of a bitch as well. But as far as we know, he didn’t inject performance enhancing drugs into his system to help him recover from injuries or build up his muscle mass. I put Clemons on an earlier list and I regret doing it. I was merely following the research I had done. I won’t make that mistake again. I think those bastards have done a lot to ruin a fair game.
In a similar vein, Ben Johnson held the world record for the 100 meter dash and an Olympic Gold medal until it was discovered that he cheated to get it.
My suggestion is to write your own original list. You’ll soon find out how truly difficult it is. I will happily comment on it, but one thing I won’t do is accuse you of stealing it from someone else. That’s just stupid and lazy.
July 27th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
@Chauncey (184):
Chauncey, please understand that I submitted the list WITHOUT any rankings attached.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Bucslim. alright like i told the other guy its a dead issue man. and your descpriptions are your own i admitted that from the beginning. For the record I have posted two lists on this site.
http://listverse.com/2008/10/01/top-10-greatest-professional-wrestlers-of-all-time/
http://listverse.com/2008/12/19/top-10-cases-of-human-cannibalism/
I know exactly how hard it is to come up with a list. so i honestly apologize to you if i am completely wrong but since you didnt address it way back in post (8) i thought you were trying to ignore a fact. i originally only wanted clarification from you the author, but when a couple of creeps started jumping in and coming at me for pointing something out i probably got carried away.
Anyway back to the important thing. Barry Bonds has never failed a steroid test. (he might have failed one in 2000) Im not saying he is innocent because the circumstantial evidence is strong but baseball players have been “cheating” forever. Babe Ruth corked his bat and many players including Mickey Mantle, Musial, etc. have been linked to Amphetemines. If they had roids in those eras believe many players would have taken them.
Statistical means only numbers and if you go by that Bonds 2002 was off the charts. The sad thing is that Bonds would have been a hall of famer without ever taking roids (if he ever did)
Steroids turns bad players into average players.
average players into good players
good players into great players
and great players into immortals. One thing it cant do is take some one who is bad or average and make them great. I know its hard to calculate these things but if you look into suspect players “pre-juicing” seasons and post juicing seasons you will see that they usually fall in line with a huge plateau in between when they were “cheating”
The only reason why you totally cant discount Bonds accoomplishment is that there is no irrefutable evidence out there that he juiced. If he did fail that test in 2000 there has been no paper evidence yet presented. there has been no confession no mention in the Mitchell report a la Roger Clemens and bonds grand jury testimony was in 2003 it will some be 7 years since and the feds have yet to prove any thing beyond a reasonalbe doubt.
and last if he did juice (most likely) how many of those hits came off pitchers that were also juicing. those that reduce his level of cheating and even the playing field. that is really hard to say. and since there is and will never be a valid formula for calculating the statistical benefits performance enhancing drugs on baseball players stats then the only other option is to go with what you got. that is bonds actual stats. I know it kinda sucks but there are dozens if not hundreds of individuals to blame for this epidemic and none of them were strong enough to stop it.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
c’mon Rolo, are you seriously going to submit a smidgen of doubt that Bonds wasn’t on steroids? And your proof is that he never failed a drug test? There have been numerous reports and even a book out about how this is carved in stone that he did it. There’s plenty of evidence that the owners looked the other way or gave players a heads up when the drug test was coming. Hell I’ve even read when the testers would come, the player would refuse to take a test until a later date. So in my mind, Bonds never failing a drug test is a very weak argument that he didn’t take steroids. There is a mountain of evidence that he did from readily available sources. All you have to do is look at the size of his head from his Pirate days and compare that to now.
I’ll give it up that corked bats and greenies are cheating as well. However, they cannot approach the seriousness of performance enhancing drugs. Because they are just that, ‘performance enhancing.’ Corked bats can make a ball go further, and greenies can help you after a hangover or boost your metabolism. But they aren’t a systematic procedure with the intention of building muscle mass or helping someone recover from a serious injury, or prolong an athlete’s career so he can increase his stats and have a better chance at individual glory. Home runs and RBI’s get headlines and put butts in the seats.
Finally, I didn’t defend myself earlier because my internet service was out this weekend and I had to follow it on my mobile. You claim to have said it’s a dead issue, yet you’re still commenting on it as late as post 181 and 183. I’m not sure what you were trying to accomplish, but I was completely offended by your insinuation that I stole this from someone else. I’d rather talk about baseball and my selections and not have to defend myself from some stupid and slanderous lie you made up in your head. The question is why? Isn’t it enough that I took the time to come up with this by myself, research the stats and write it up? Can’t you just come in here and comment on the list itself without insulting me?
Fine, you’ve apologized. Next time I suggest you think a little before you start typing.
July 28th, 2009 at 2:11 am
Baseball sucks shit. Cricket Rules!!! There just cannot be a comparison. Baseball is but a poor pirated copy of Cricket in all it’s glory. For those who are aware of the nitty gritties of both, this should be obvious. The Americans should really get their heads out of their collective asses and look around them a little more. Or maybe, it’s too late for them…
July 28th, 2009 at 9:17 am
@grandtheftlarceny (189): There just cannot be a comparison.
And yet you followed that statement with a comparison.
Next time I suggest you think a little before you start typing.
That last sentence I typed above is plagiarism, NOT the list the buc wrote. There’s a distinct difference.
July 28th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Pujols takes performance enhancing drugs! DESIGNER STEROIDS and HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE!!! Don’t be fooled!!! So you might as well have Barry Bonds on here.
July 28th, 2009 at 9:25 am
@Maggot (179): Billy Terry had the higher OBP, Chuck Klein had the high SLG. Even if you neutralize the numbers to give OBP equal weight in comparison to SLG (1 point of OBP does not equal 1 point of SLG because OBP is a straight average, whereas SLG has a multiplier), Klein still comes out ahead. However, if you go further to neutralize context (mainly the difference between playing at the Baker Bowl and playing at the Polo Grounds), there’s not much difference in their offensive value for that year.
And no need to apologize. I wasn’t really that offended.
July 28th, 2009 at 10:37 am
@bucslim (188): Two things about Barry Bonds and steroids.
The issue with Barry Bonds and steroids is an interesting one considering the substances he was taking and the timing in question. BALCO was in the business of developing synthetic supplements for their clients (most notably the Cream and the Clear). Barry was using these substances during a time in which they were not classified by any agency as a steroid. He never did anything at the time that was illegal or against the rules of Major League Baseball.
There has never been a good study done to show that steroids do, in fact, make baseball players better at their craft. At best, they have been shown to keep players free from day-to-day nagging injuries and keep them at their peak for a longer period of time. This makes the term PED a curious one as it leaves the impression that steroids will make you better above what your baseline skills would indicate (they do not). I have no problem with MLB banning steroids, as they can have long term health ramifications. However, MLB banning steroids as a health issue is in direct opposition to their policies enabling tobacco use during play as well as their tendency to look the other way when it comes to things like DUIs.
July 28th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
@z (192): However, if you go further to neutralize context (mainly the difference between playing at the Baker Bowl and playing at the Polo Grounds), there’s not much difference in their offensive value for that year.
I’ll agree, and I’ll also grant that Terry wasn’t “nowhere to be found” in RBI’s for example. He was just not in the top 10, but was actually 12th with 129, by no means a low total (but about 40 less than Klein). And further, Terry usually batted 3rd and Klein 4th, so in theory more RBI opportunities for Klein. But OTOH, and not really intent on debating this per se, but for the sake of ongoing conversation how about giving Klein a nod since he played on a way crappier team? They lost 102 games in 1930, the Giants won 87. Though Phi’s problems appear to be mostly due to poor pitching (last in runs-against), since their team batting stats are pretty close, 1 and 2 respectively, which kinda deflates that theory a bit. But the 102 losses are likely why, as buc pointed out in his entry text, Klein didn’t get any MVP votes that year.
July 28th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
@Rolo Tomasi (183): ok Maggot (whats up with that name)
I would tell you, but then I’d have to kill you.
July 28th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
lol. ok it sounds like it would be better for me not to know.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
A model of consistency, Chipper Jones had his best year in 1999, when he won his MVP.
He is the ONLY player in MLB history to have hit over .300 (.319) while slugging 40 or more home runs (45; 3rd in the NL) and doubles (41), drawing 100 or more walks (126; 3rd in the league), notching 100 or more RBI (110) and Runs scored (116), and stealing 20 or more bases (25). He was also walked intentionally 18 times; 2nd in the league, and his .633 slugging percentage was 4th best in the NL.
July 30th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Joe D was Mr. Coffee too.
Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris look pretty damn good now in lieu of the current era.
July 30th, 2009 at 11:10 am
@jbjr (198): Roger Maris look pretty damn good now in lieu of the current era.
Actually he doesn’t, if you really think about it. His home-run year was a total anomaly for him, he never came close to 61 HRs either before or after 1961, and only had triple-digit RBIs two other times. A career .260 hitter, he never hit higher than .283 (a pedestrian .269 in ’61). So what was up with those 61 HRs? Having The Mick hitting behind him certainly helped, but why didn’t it likewise help during other years? I’m not exactly accusing Maris of anything nefarious, but it sure looks odd in relation to his overall year-by-year stats. Baseball is a game of trends, so when something stands out like that, you gotta wonder what’s going on.
July 30th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Just a slight correction on the Ty Cobb stats – Rickey Henderson is actually the career leader in runs scored (2295). Plus, Cobb had 2246, not 2245.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/runs
July 30th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
St James – editing editing editing. I think what I meant was that he finished his career with a record number of runs, but put it in that sentence where it didn’t belong. And I thought I remembered that number of 2245 or 2246 runs being disputed.
So I appreciate the heads up. Thanks.
July 30th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Hey, glad to help! Great list though – I love baseball and the stats are my favorite part.
To anyone that says this is boring – honestly, go read something else.
July 31st, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Steroids or not, Bonds’ 2001-2004 stats are eye-poping. Controversy aside, he’s the best player i’ve ever seen.
Most impressive stat: .609 OBP in 2004. Just amazing.
August 1st, 2009 at 12:13 am
Most of the players on this list never faced a middle reliever pitcher, never faced a closer, never faced a pitcher on a pitch count. Pitchers in their era were expected to finish the game regardless, so many of those big numbers came against exhausted pitchers with tired arms. Hitters in the modern era never see a pitcher with a tired arm. All pitchers are on pitch counts. Their arms are too valuable.
August 1st, 2009 at 8:48 am
@Look (204):
All true, but most of these batters never saw the inside of a weight room, never had personal trainers, never trained for the season in the off season or had a regular training system, never had technology to help their swing techniques, and most definitely never injected performance enhancing drugs.
Yes it’s true that pitching has changed drastically from that era to now, but there were less teams meaning less opportunity for a below average pitcher to make a professional team, the pitchers they had were absolutely the best of the best. To prove my point would be to eliminate half of todays MLB teams – then decide what pitchers are major league quality. Most teams would have no problem fielding 4-5 top quality pitchers instead of the 1-2 maybe 3 decent starting pitching that we see now. Hitters now have a chance to face starting substandard pitching on a regular basis.
August 1st, 2009 at 10:43 am
good list but baseball aint my thing
August 1st, 2009 at 11:00 am
#135, maggot
Klein also had 44 outfield assists that season, which is the ML record. Why? Because right field was 280 feet away in his home park, the Baker Bowl. Right center was 300 feet away. A 60 foot screen was erected to help normalize the field a bit but it was still an offensive boon to the players, particularly lefties, which Klein was.
I think it’s hard to credit a player with one of the greatest offensive seasons ever when the field he played in was smaller in some parts than the one I played in when I was 13
August 1st, 2009 at 11:11 am
This list has so many problems that I don’t know where to start.
You leave off “suspected” steroid users but include Pujols as number 1. His career performance and explosion onto the season in his rookie year throw off so many red flags. I guess he hasn’t been named by anyone, yet.
Many of these great performances were recorded by players playing against inferior competition, no Latinos, Asians, or African-Americans. 9 of the 10 (we’ll include Musial, in 1948 there weren’t more than a handful of African-Americans in the majors, 2 or 3 I believe) seasons you named were before desegregation.
7 of the 10 were between 1921 and 1937. I find it hard to believe there was such a confluence of great hitters at that point and that this isn’t more a function of the hitters environment of the time.
The final problem (that I’ll mention) is that whoever made this does not have a clear understanding of baseball statistical analysis and some of the more sophisticated measures which we have available to us today. It’s 2009. On Base Percentage is much more important than batting average. We also have statistics at our disposal which normalize a player’s performance relative to the year and even in which field he played his home games in.
August 1st, 2009 at 11:40 am
Regarding my #208 post. To maggot
After reading into the comments I see that this issue has been discussed further, making my point moot.
I just saw this post and flipped through real quick, so I had not been following the comments.
Sorry for the rehash again.
August 1st, 2009 at 1:17 pm
@sss45 (209): After reading into the comments I see that this issue has been discussed further, making my point moot.
No biggie, it still makes for fun discussion. For the fellow stat geeks that may be interested, here are Klein’s splits for 1930 (I hope the columns format properly):
Games AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI AVG SLG
Home 77 326 91 143 259 32 3 26 109 .439 .794
Away 79 322 67 107 186 27 5 14 61 .332 .577
Total 156 648 158 250 445 59 8 40 170 .386 .687
source: http://tinyurl.com/lau46e
Clearly he was better at home (which no one denies), though his away number aren’t too shabby. Admittedly not top five (17th overall in SLG), which was my original objection to z’s post #131. It would be interesting to compare the splits for other top players that year (or the other players on this list) but I am too lazy to do that at the moment.
August 1st, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Ugh, they didn’t…
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:13 am
@sss45 (208):
Very good points about not playing against everyone available.
I take issue with your assertion that I do not have a clear understanding of baseball statistics. For what it’s worth, I’m a Bill James fanatic – the guy practically invented sabermetrics. Although it is true that I don’t understand every statistical issues that guy comes up with, it hardly bears any relevance to what I’ve written. Anyone can look at the offensive output of these seasons and clearly see that they are superb.
(I would mention that I’ve been in many roto/fantasy leagues over the past 25 years, but seeing how my team is dead last right now AND I want to get laid sometime in the next decade, I probably should’ve kept that to myself.)
You can argue that I’ve neglected to mention great seasons from any particular player and I’ll happily acknowledge that, provided you back it up with the numbers. You simply cannot argue that any one of the players I’ve mention did not put up fantastic numbers – in particular slugging and/or total bases. On base percentage might be more important than batting average in your opinion, but I happen to think total bases is more important – because it includes singles, doubles, triples, home runs, stolen bases and crossing the plate.
Anyone can look at these numbers, and while it is important to take into account everything you mentioned, you can’t look at what they did and think that it doesn’t matter, or shouldn’t be mentioned in this list. They put up these fantastic numbers given whatever situation they were in. Do you really think Ruth or DiMaggio or anyone else on this list WOULDN’T excel at hitting in different eras – ballparks – inclusive competition? Discussing that is an interesting matter, but it leads back to the fact that they did what they did when and where they did it.
Finally, I have no idea if Pujols is on the juice. It’s nearly impossible to see what he does in the batters box and not have some suspicion. But so far, his name hasn’t come up.
August 3rd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
@bucslim
Very good point. I agree that there have been many outstanding offensive seasons over the many years – to pick only ten is going to leave many snubs. Maybe next time go for 15-20, or pick ten from each era. Hey even a top ten best steroids era seasons would be fun too!
Just one correction – total bases does not include stolen bases or crossing the plate. It’s only the number of bases from hits – 1b, 2b, 3b and HRs. This is where slugging pct. comes from TB/AB=SLG.
August 3rd, 2009 at 1:46 pm
@St. James (213):
Sorry, got excited and spewed nonsense on the total bases thing.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:41 am
@bucslim (212)
I apologize, it seems you do have an understanding of some of the more advanced statistics. I harped on this point because in the writeup you concentrated on things like batting average and RBI’s, probably in an attempt to pander to the more casual baseball fan.
Total bases is very important, and we can better look at that by way of slugging percentage. I still contend that OBP% is more important than SLG%. Bill James and most of the sabermetricians who followed him feel the same. You have limited outs and the ability to not make them (which is what OBP kind mostly measures) is crucial. I really like OPS (OBP+SLG) as a measurement of offensive value.
These are all incredible seasons you posted, and all great players who would have put up outstanding numbers in any era. I just don’t think they’re the 10 best offensive seasons relative to their era. If the category had been “Most impressive offensive numbers disregarding offensive environment” you’d have me, but it wasn’t.
August 4th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
@sss45 (215):
I see your point. It is true that this list is weighted towards slugging and total bases. Remembering back to when I decided to leave in and who to leave off came down to who had more total bases.
In my mind, that’s what offensive baseball should come down to, getting on the bag. But it doesn’t exactly tell the whole story.
George Brett had a phenomenal season in 1980 – coming close to hitting .400 isn’t anything to overlook especially in the modern age. His slugging was a sizzling .664 and his OPS was 1.118. Comparatively speaking his numbers for the day were remarkable, but not what I considered better than what I decided to list – you could say it came down to total bases because he had less than 300. That just doesn’t stack up as well as someone who should have been listed like Williams or Mantle. I suspect it’s because those guys were power hitters and Brett was never considered a homer guy.
I think you’ve got a good argument that I’ll look into and see if what I’ve listed can hold up to that point of view. It would be hard for me to believe it wouldn’t because, again, I looked very hard at average and slugging so it makes sense that their OPS would turn out ok.
August 10th, 2009 at 10:20 am
@bucslim
Brett’s season is a strong one to think about regarding inclusion on this list. He barely qualifed for the batting title (117 games and a little over 500 plate appearances). His slugging percentage was great and so was his OPS, but he didn’t amass an obscene amount of total bases (or hits for that matter) because he didn’t have a ton of plate appearances.