Linguistic genocide has frequently been used throughout history to systematically eradicate languages, for one reason or another. Sometimes it’s to assert the authority of a ruling power, sometimes it’s an attempt to assimilate an ethnic minority, and sometimes it’s to provide “linguistic unity.” In modern times (the past 200 years, for this list) it has been a major cause for the decline of a number of languages. This list does not focus on the decline or death or a language through actual genocide or death, but rather points in history in which a population’s language has suffered from attempts to eradicate or replace it.
The government of Singapore launched the Speak Mandarin Campaign in 1979 to promote, as the name implies, the speaking of Mandarin amongst Chinese Singaporeans. This policy has come under heavy criticism, especially since the majority of Chinese Singaporeans are from southern China, where mostly non-Mandarin Chinese languages are spoken. As part of the campaign, the government banned non-Mandarin Chinese languages in local broadcast media, and foreign media in those languages is limited. The campaign has met with some success, and has resulted in the increased usage of Mandarin and a decreased usage of the other Chinese languages, which has frequently caused problems in communication between the younger and older generations.
The decline of the Hawaiian language started around the 1820′s, due to the influence of missionaries on the islands. The missionaries’ presence resulted in an increasing number of Hawaiians learning English, but at the expense of Hawaiian. Deliberate attacks on the language didn’t come until 1893, when the Provisional Government, put in place after the fall of the monarchy, attempted to assert the English language’s dominance over Hawaiian. This included the banning of Hawaiian in public schools in 1896 (although Hawaiian was not prohibited in other contexts), which continued well into the 20th century. Hawaiian’s secondary status can still be felt there today: there are only 2,000 native speakers, although efforts to promote the learning and teaching of Hawaiian are proving somewhat successful.
The decline of the Ryukyuan languages started when the Ryūkyū Kingdom lost its independence to Japan, in the late 19th century. The languages were severely suppressed in education by the Japanese government. In Okinawa and other regions of Japan, students were punished for speaking anything other than Standard Japanese, by wearing a “dialect card” around their neck. From World War II up to the present day, Japan has considered the Ryukyuan languages to have the degraded status of a “dialect” of Japanese, rather than a separate language. Today, efforts are made to preserve the languages, but the outlook is less than positive as the vast majority of Okinawan children are now monolingual Japanese speakers.
Korea was occupied by Japan from 1910 to 1945, and during that time suffered from a cultural genocide, which included the repression of the Korean language. In schools, Japanese was the language of instruction while Korean was offered merely as an elective, but, later on, this changed to an outright ban on Korean during school hours. Korean was also banned in the workplace. As part of their cultural assimilation policy, Japan introduced a system in which Koreans could “voluntarily” give up their Korean names, and in their stead take a Japanese one, but many were frequently compelled or harassed into adopting a Japanese name against their will. The colonization ended with Japan’s surrender in World War II, but it continues to cast a shadow over the relationship between the countries.
“Russification” refers to the policies of both Imperial Russia and the Soviet Union to enforce the adoption of the Russian language. It was frequently used by Russian governments to impose their authority on the minorities they governed, often in order to quell separatism and the threat of rebellion. Particularly in the Ukraine and Finland, Russification was used as a means of asserting political domination.
One of the most prominent instances of Russification was in the 19th century when Ukrainian, Polish, Lithuanian, and Belarusian were suppressed. Use of the local languages in public places or schools was banned, and these policies intensified after several uprisings occurred.
Under the Soviet Union, the Arabic alphabet was eradicated and many languages were ultimately made to adopt variations of the Cyrillic alphabet. In the early years of the USSR, minority languages were actually promoted, but this soon changed to a policy of Russian dominance over local languages. The result was that many people came to prefer Russian over their native language, and today Russian is still widely used in former Soviet states.
England’s domination over Wales, Scotland and Ireland introduced the English language to these regions, but with the devastating consequence of the downfall of the local languages. Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Scots and Irish (among others) were all prohibited in education at one time or another, which possibly contributed the most to the plummeting usage of the languages. In Wales, the Welsh Not (a piece of wood with the carved letters “WN” that was hung around the children’s necks) was used in the 1800′s to punish students for speaking Welsh, and beating students for using non-English languages was common throughout all of the countries. Welsh, Scots Gaelic and Irish had inferior status to English, whereas Scots wasn’t even recognized as a separate language, and all suffered as a result. It wasn’t until the 20th century that the British government started taking steps to protect these languages, which has been met with mixed success. In all of the countries the local languages are now spoken by a minority, and are still very much secondary to English.
“La vergonha” (Occitan for “the shame”) refers to the policies of the French government regarding the treatment of minority languages in France. The speakers were frequently made to feel excluded or humiliated in school, society, or the media simply for speaking their language. In the late 18th century, all non-French languages were banned in the administration and education, with the goal of “linguistically uniting” France. In the late 19th century, there was the widespread implementation of punishment in schools for speaking the regional languages. Students caught speaking a “patois,” as the French government referred to them to convey a sense of backwardness, were made to wear an object around their neck called a symbole. Discrimination against non-French languages continues to the present day, and remains a taboo topic. Current French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, has, in recent years, refused to ratify the European Charter for Regional or Minority languages, a treaty that aims to protect and promote regional languages.
Indonesia’s ethnically Chinese population faced severe discrimination under President Suharto, who ruled Indonesia from 1967 until his resignation in 1998. Included in this was the harsh suppression of the Chinese languages, which were banned in nearly all aspects of life. All Chinese-language papers were forced to close, except one, and all Chinese-language schools were shut. Chinese script was banned in public, and the police could openly abuse anyone found using the language. Even their names weren’t safe from this cultural genocide, as they were forced to change them to more Indonesian-sounding ones. The severity of Suharto’s policies, combined with the social stigma associated with being Chinese, was unfortunately effective, as many people of the younger generations lost the language of their parents. Following Suharto’s resignation, these bans on the Chinese languages were revoked by President Abdurrahman Wahid.
Under Franco’s rule from 1939 to 1975, regional and minority languages in Spain were discriminated against, to assert the dominance of the Spanish language. Franco’s use of language politics was mainly to promote nationalism, and so Spanish was made the sole official language of the country. The public use of any other language was either banned or frowned upon, depending on the region and time period, and anything other than Spanish names were forbidden. The harshest policies emerged at the beginning of Franco’s rule, in the 1940s and ‘50s, while they became comparatively tolerant in the last years of his regime. To further establish the lower status of the languages, they were often considered to be mere dialects of Spanish, implying that they weren’t real languages (this didn’t apply to Basque, which is far too different from Spanish).
The largest of these regional languages were Basque, Catalan and Galician, although all languages were subjected to Franco’s policies. Catalan provides a good example of these laws: it was banned in government-run institutions and public events, advertising, and the media, but it was still used in some contexts. Publishing in Catalan continued throughout Franco’s dictatorship, and there was no prohibition on speaking it in public or in commerce. From the 1950s it was allowed in theater, and near the end of the regime certain celebrations in Catalan were tolerated.
The Kurds have frequently been discriminated against, in multiple countries, and even when the Kurdish people are not the target of genocide, their language still is. Iraq is notable for being perhaps the most accepting of its Kurdish population; it is an official language there, and has been allowed in education, administration and the media. This is, unfortunately, not always true in other countries.
Turkey attempted to assimilate non-Turkish speakers, starting in the 1930s, when Kurdish language and culture was banned. The Kurds were seen as uncivilized and ignorant, and any expression of a separate identity was seen as a crime. This finally changed in 1991, when Turkey legalized the private use of spoken Kurdish. Since then, the restrictions have been becoming more and more relaxed: Kurdish in education is no longer illegal, and there are fewer limitations on television broadcasts. Discrimination against the language still very much exists in the country, despite the recent improvements.
Something similar happened in Iran, where the government had a policy of “Persianization” in the first half of the 20th century. Speaking Kurdish was banned in schools and state institutions, and later, a total ban on the language was imposed. In other countries, this is still true: in Syria, Kurdish is banned in most contexts.


























1 c man
February 26th, 2010 at 1:32 am
my kinda list!!
2 drownl
February 26th, 2010 at 1:33 am
hmm, always learn at least 1 thing new a day
3 periwinkleskies
February 26th, 2010 at 1:41 am
Is the photo used in number 1 made up?
4 ants1
February 26th, 2010 at 1:52 am
Maori was frowned upon in New Zealand for while i believe. Can anyone verify that for me?
5 curtberg jr
February 26th, 2010 at 1:55 am
stop being such a retard c man. nice list!
6 ants1
February 26th, 2010 at 1:55 am
@c man (8):
No he is right you are an Idiot, pretty Drownl isnt a bunch of sticks. Trees cant use computers.
7 Maureen Goodman
February 26th, 2010 at 1:56 am
Ladino, or Judeo-Spanish, is a patois of 15th-century Spanish, Hebrew and several other Mediterranean languages.
Like Yiddish, it is a dying language; gradual disappearance began during World War II when Sephardic communities throughout Europe, the Middle East and North Africa were dispersed or decimated.
Refugees of the those communities scattered to Israel, the United States and Europe.
Also called Judeo-spanish, Sefardic, or Sephardic,
Romance language spoken by Sefardic Jews in the Balkans, the Middle East, North Africa, Greece, and Turkey; it is very nearly extinct in many of these areas.
A very archaic form of Castilian Spanish, mixed somewhat with Hebrew elements, Ladino originated in Spain and was carried to its present speech areas by the descendants of the Spanish Jews who were exiled from Spain after 1492.
Ladino is usually written in Hebrew characters and has a literature of its own, including many works in translation.
8 ants1
February 26th, 2010 at 1:56 am
pretty sure*
9 a horse mauls a ding-a-ling
February 26th, 2010 at 2:06 am
nice to see an indonesian entry here.. what soeharto(the correct spelling) did was simply devastating.. not only cultural genocide, even until now, chinese-indonesian(or indonesian-chinese as some prefer) still face heavy discrimination and there is a big gap between chinese-indonesian and “real” indonesian people.. each have their own prejudices about the other.. and the efforts to fix things up are half-assed..
10 thorlite
February 26th, 2010 at 2:10 am
I was gonna comment on a woman I saw in the news lately, she was the last known speaker of her language, typed it into google and this list appears!
http//listverse.com/2009/03/11/12-last-known-speakers-of-a-language/
Good work!
11 mordechaimordechai
February 26th, 2010 at 2:13 am
nice list.
Note that linguistic genocide often implies genocide itself.
Testifying that a people is about his culture not just his blood.
How sad is for the son not being able to speak his father’s language?
12 suzzi
February 26th, 2010 at 2:16 am
As someone who has struggled repeatedly to learn a new language (and failed) my heart really goes out to these people. especially the elderly who must feel at a total loss in their own countries.
13 Arsnl
February 26th, 2010 at 2:21 am
And no guy was more friendly than chemical ali.
@mordechaimordechai (17): usually the son doesnt mind that much because he wants to adapt. I dont mean to be a jerk but being part of another community shouldnt be considered such a bad thing. And why should he care so much if some unknown language dissapears? Those who are capable to adapt to fast changes, those survive. Its nature. NB i mean those languaged that die naturally not those that are forced to die out.
14 T
February 26th, 2010 at 2:25 am
This is the reason I love listverse, I always learn something I didn’t know. I have never heard of the Ryukyu Kingdom. Great list Askalon
15 Meh
February 26th, 2010 at 2:28 am
My language, the Haida language, has been victim to this sort of thing. They banned everything that had to do with our culture, and forced children to learn english, while being taken away from their families and villages. There used to be hundreds of villages, but most of the population was wiped out by disease, mainly small pox. There is only around 275 speakers today. Here’s a link to hear it spoken by an elder:
http://www.haidanation.ca/Pages/Splash/PhotoGallery/Our_World/PowerHaida.html
16 63jax
February 26th, 2010 at 2:33 am
Very nice and interesting, thanks. Good list, bloody good.
17 lrigD
February 26th, 2010 at 2:37 am
Good list! Languages interest me very much, and I think it’s so sad that some languages are disappearing (whether forced or not).
There are quite some Turkish and Kurdish people here – and I notice that even among them in a totally different country, they can’t just see themselves as Turks. There’s definitely a difference between them – sometimes it’s just ‘oh, you’re Kurdish’, but I’ve also seen Kurds being insulted. It’s so sad…
18 Suharto Lova
February 26th, 2010 at 2:44 am
Well, actually i agree with suharto’s desicion to ban chinese freedom in indonesia.
After that goddamn abdurahman wahid allow them to express freely, chinese goes wild.
SLOWLY BUT SURELY CHINESE BULDOZE NATIVE INDONESIAN PEOPLE CULTURE.
They think indonesian people are “under” them.
Many chinese disrespect indonesian people.
19 k1w1taxi
February 26th, 2010 at 2:48 am
@ants1 (10):
Correct it was was not only officially frowned upon through the first half of the 20th century, but also many Maori parents supported this as they wanted their children to be able to advance better in a Pakeha dominated world. However things really started to reverse during the 1970′s with a major rise in Maori activism generally and Te Reo (the language) was seen as a major way for Maori to reconnect with their heritage.
Cheers
Lee
20 Romanov Konstantine
February 26th, 2010 at 2:51 am
Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i’m gwlad.
Tra môr yn fur i’r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i’r hen iaith barhau.
Hen Gymru fynyddig, paradwys y bardd,
Pob dyffryn, pob clogwyn, i’m golwg sydd hardd;
Trwy deimlad gwladgarol, mor swynol yw si
Ei nentydd, afonydd, i mi.
Os treisiodd y gelyn fy ngwlad tan ei droed,
Mae hen iaith y Cymry mor fyw ag erioed,
Ni luddiwyd yr awen gan erchyll law brad,
Na thelyn berseiniol fy ngwlad.
Fy iaith, fy ngwlad, fy nghenedl Cymru — Cymry am byth.
Were gonna hammer the French tonight boys!
21 me
February 26th, 2010 at 3:03 am
Russians also used to say that they wrote the Cyrillic alphabet…lol
22 Malaysian
February 26th, 2010 at 3:11 am
Fuck all indonesians. They are suck big time!!! Malysia is so much united compared to them.
23 Malaysian
February 26th, 2010 at 3:12 am
Mistake *they suck big time!!
24 ForNaught
February 26th, 2010 at 3:34 am
Good list, but I’d say #5 is somewhat misleading (by omission only)– although it was indeed the British who repressed the Irish language, it is not the British who are now taking steps to keep it alive, but the Irish government, since we’re no longer part of the UK! Unfortunately the number of fluent speakers continues to decline despite mandatory education for the 14 years of primary and secondary school; a shame, as it’s a beautiful language.
25 stockyzeus
February 26th, 2010 at 3:37 am
what about bengali? bangladeshis are the only people to have died for their language. the genocide was tried by the pakistanis but it failed.
26 L’Economa Domestica
February 26th, 2010 at 3:43 am
@ Maureen Goodman
A raetho romanic language spoke in Italian regions of Veneto and Trentino Alto Adige/Sudtirol is also called Ladino.
During Fascist era (1923-1944) italians Ladini had a very hard time, as the government tried to destroy their culture. Now the ladin minority (or majority, as in some zones) is protected by 482/1999 law and in Alto Adige you have to pass a ladin exam to obtain some public administration jobs.
I’m slowly learning ladino because my significant other is ladin, and he usually speaks ladin with his family and friends!
27 deathorats
February 26th, 2010 at 3:59 am
One could mention the Apartheid Government of South Africa forcing Black Africans to learn Afrikaans and English in schools instead of their mother tongues. Still, compared to some items on the list that was a minor event that didn’t really work to well anyway.
It’s kind of sad, though, that even after all the changes and recognition of the languages as official languages (11 in total) in South Africa that they are still struggling. While they are still spoken widely you can hear how English is, in a sense, ‘taking over’ where the original language is unable/unwilling to adapt.
28 ChineapplePunk
February 26th, 2010 at 4:12 am
Well done for helping to keep ladino alive
excellent list!!!
29 sean
February 26th, 2010 at 4:13 am
is maith liom an liost seo
30 Karl
February 26th, 2010 at 4:29 am
Nice list! It’s so sad that languages are dissappearing because of countries governments forcing people to take up another language.
31 elenmai
February 26th, 2010 at 4:30 am
Sometimes I wish Welsh was a dead language. It would make my life so much easier.
32 Mâthew
February 26th, 2010 at 4:33 am
The fact that only 5% of my town speak our own language is truely upsetting, and it’s not much better through the rest of Wales. Many people claim they don’t bother learning the language because it is of no use to them here. Sad.
33 Jack Deth
February 26th, 2010 at 4:33 am
Great list, very interesting. If I could add one, I’d say Esperanto, although a synthetic language, speakers have been persecuted by various regimes (The usual WWII ones, etc)
It’s nice to have a non-religious one for once in a while.
34 khatzeye
February 26th, 2010 at 4:34 am
Great list! I never even knew that other countries were forcing people to speak one language.
35 Michel
February 26th, 2010 at 4:37 am
With Spanish you mean Castilian (Castellano).
36 Michel
February 26th, 2010 at 4:38 am
[/nitpick]
37 Jack Deth
February 26th, 2010 at 4:42 am
I don’t know about Welsh being in too much trouble these days (At least in North Wales)
I lived on Anglesea and near Caernarfon for around 8 years and found that Welsh or Cymraeg (I think) was the first language for the majority.
I tried my best to learn a bit, btw!
38 trudy
February 26th, 2010 at 4:42 am
FORTRAN was slaughtered by C.
39 Armodillotron
February 26th, 2010 at 4:47 am
While we`ve made some mistakes in our time, isn`t it great that we made the world speak English and not French? Nearly every country in the WORLD has English as their first language, and if it`s not their first, it`s the second. Isn`t it great we did something right for once? Even though you get idiots like George Bush, who cock it up.
40 dr. Hannibal Lecter
February 26th, 2010 at 4:57 am
If you ask me, this is very controversial. Although I like the idea of preserving languages, I wouldn’t want to keep all of them around. They are often nothing but a barrier in communication, diplomacy etc.
China is a good example. There are many dialects and people speaking different dialects can come into situations where they can’t understand each other (they do use the same character set so if they don’t understand spoken words they most likely will understand anything written down).
By introducing Mandarin, China has taken a step forward in improving communication. I’m not saying we should *ban* Wu, Hakka etc..we should definitely preserve them, but why keep so many dialects active? For example, Latin is dead for all practical purposes, but preserved. I don’t see anyone complaining..
In the end, I don’t see any reason why not have only one “world language”, except if you want to be backwards about it and stick to your “cultural heritage”, whatever that is. In the end, language is “just a tool”.
我的中文讲得不太好。哈哈。:)
41 Josh
February 26th, 2010 at 5:02 am
Armodillitron:
“While we`ve made some mistakes in our time, isn`t it great that we made the world speak English and not French? Nearly every country in the WORLD has English as their first language, and if it`s not their first, it`s the second. Isn`t it great we did something right for once? Even though you get idiots like George Bush, who cock it up.”
So fucking what?
42 BravehisTickle
February 26th, 2010 at 5:12 am
[deleted]
43 BravehisTickle
February 26th, 2010 at 5:13 am
@BravehisTickle (48): Oh my goodness- linguistic genocide from Jamie! This is so cruel
44 Jody
February 26th, 2010 at 5:16 am
Bonus! TEXT TALK!!! Lyk is not a word!!!
45 nicoleredz3
February 26th, 2010 at 5:19 am
@suzzi (18):
That’s true!
Interesting list…
46 Swifty66
February 26th, 2010 at 5:23 am
So many native American languages have been lost or are in danger of becoming extinct as well. Very sad! Language is so integral in keeping a culture alive.
47 ALJID
February 26th, 2010 at 5:32 am
Even languages which are one of our only sort of inheritance from the rich heritage of the past gets an axe. This is beyond my comprehension.
48 Arsnl
February 26th, 2010 at 5:40 am
@dr. Hannibal Lecter (46): well i use a tool to eat my cake and a different tool to write. Hell i use different tools to do sometimes the same job. And have you read english peotry in french? Does it have the same effect? Our mother language is what defines us in a way. And i wouldnt like to be understood by everyone and everyone to understand me.
If a language is fading naturally well i dont think its “so sad”(like everybody here thinks). It probably went extinct cuz the people who spoke it didnt consider it meaningful to pass it on(and if they dont think it was why should i try to convince them it is) but we shouldnt force someone to learn an language.
49 oouchan
February 26th, 2010 at 5:52 am
Still in the middle of learning Japanese along with my daughter. I so wish I had started this earlier.
What an informative list, Askalon. I knew of the Russian one since it happened to my people. Sad that. It’s also sad what has happened to the Hawaiian language and their people…..
50 BravehisTickle
February 26th, 2010 at 5:53 am
@Arsnl (54): You always comment by replying to people and don’t give any personal opinion, the view is always ‘related’.. may I know why? Except for the ‘submarine stories’
51 stevenh
February 26th, 2010 at 5:58 am
Interesting list. Thank you.
@thorlite (16):
the woman is described here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/04/ancient-language-extinct-speaker-dies
52 Armodillotron
February 26th, 2010 at 6:15 am
Josh, do you remember some of the things that George Bush said? He said so many stupid things, that it`s unbelievable. I still have my “Bushisms,” calendar, and a few years ago I bought some Bushism fridge magnets. There still on the fridge! Remember-”more and more our imports come from overseas,” “I know the human being and fish can co-exist peacefully,” and “they misunderestimated me.” The guy was so stupid it`s unreal. I miss him though. Obama is boring compared to Bush.
53 laerrr
February 26th, 2010 at 6:17 am
so what englishman have done is better than what turkey have done? bad list, way bad list…
54 Trojan_man
February 26th, 2010 at 6:39 am
@Swifty66 (52):
You are correct. Some of the Native American languages were beautiful and held some knowledge of how they lived and worked in their own societies. It is a true disgrace that many are almost gone.
55 dr. Hannibal Lecter
February 26th, 2010 at 6:41 am
I could make a joke here about “There still on the fridge!” being a case of linguistic genocide, but I’m so kind and peace-loving…I’ll rather pass.
@Arsnl (54): My language doesn’t define me because I don’t allow that. I am not defined by my language, country, nation, title, skin color, sex or the brand of clothes I (don’t) wear. I am defined by my actions as a human being. Everything else is just shite imposed by society.
Why you wouldn’t want to understand everyone is beyond me..
56 The_Patient
February 26th, 2010 at 6:54 am
They should get rid of stupid talk such as “lol” “omg” and the like. I’ve heard people actually use these while talking, not just typing, and it’s so annoying! It’s taking over proper English! (Though, from the sounds of this list, proper English took over alot itself!)
57 Tamahau
February 26th, 2010 at 7:03 am
“Maori was frowned upon in New Zealand for while i believe. Can anyone verify that for me?”
It was more than frowned upon it was banned in schools and students caught speaking Maori (Te Reo) in schools were severely punished and their parents took it upon themselves to abolish speking Te reo in their own homes.
Te Reo was a dying language through the late 1800s till a strong resurgence in the late 70s and early 80s with the introduction of the Kohanaga Reo movement which was an early childhood development system. Now days Te Reo is enjoying a strong renewal with many Maori and non Maori New Zealanders taking up the language.
58 Joanne
February 26th, 2010 at 7:08 am
Even though English is not my native language and I don’t speak English very well, I wouldn’t be offended at all if English was declared the official language of the world for practical reasons and to promote understanding between cultures; It is already the de facto international language, the Latin alphabet which is used for English writing is the most widely used, and is fairly easy to learn. Of course this does not necessarily mean that all other languages should be suppressed but unfortunately many people see this as “cultural imperialism” by the Americans or “linguistic genocide” on the other languages and try to stop it because it would be politically incorrect and to maintain the “cultural diversity” espoused by liberals lefties and hippies. Natural selection is at play here – cultures, ideas, and languages came, evolved and went over the course of human history, just like how various species have branched off other species, adapted and went extinct in the history of life on Earth. In short I believe people should be free to speak their native language but attempts to preserve languages is a waste of resources
59 WiseMenSay
February 26th, 2010 at 7:18 am
god, sometimes you can’t help but feeling guilty just for being english. ah well, at least super furry animals are keeping the welsh language alive
nice list. i find languages interesting, even though i’m not great at learning them (i can remember a little french and hardly any german). i should probably make more effort…
60 capt funtime
February 26th, 2010 at 7:48 am
there would be nothing wrong with a universal language, as long as it didn’t supress poeple keeping ‘traditional’ languages for themselves.
as long as English doesn’t i should be fine anyway, i get embaressed when i go abroad and can’t speak the language but thankful that other people make the effort.
cheers everyone abroad
61 mom424
February 26th, 2010 at 8:05 am
We kind of have the reverse effect here in Canada. Our French speakers were so afraid of losing their cultural identity (des hamburg et des french fries s’il vous plait) that everything happens in both official languages here. In la belle province, English was banned from all signs, including road signs, in the 70′s. That was still the case in the 80′s and may be the same today. Unfortunately, you have to drive through Quebec in order to traverse Canada. Pretty fair trade anyway – They gave us Poutine after all. And bad drivers. And booze cans open all night. And sugar pie. And Tortierre.
62 Sky
February 26th, 2010 at 8:10 am
I’m surprised you missed Quebec, Canada.
63 damien_karras
February 26th, 2010 at 8:10 am
Doubleplusgood this list is.
64 undaunted warrior
February 26th, 2010 at 8:10 am
@deathorats(33)
I disagree with you a bit on your comment, I have lived all my life in SA started school in 1956 and completed in 1968.
Those were the apartheid years, but the blacks had their own schools in cities or in rural areas where they were tought in zulu.
When we became a democratic republic every thing changed, white schools were opened to all races.
Bottom line – nobody in the RSA forces the parents or learners to do all subjects in english.
The onus is on the parents to pick a well suited school for them, but they usealy pick an english school beause when the learner leaves school and goes to university and graduates, some of them emigrate or go into private practice, what ever they do the most spoken language anywhere is english.
65 Sky
February 26th, 2010 at 8:11 am
mom424: Poutine was invented by the Acadians while on the run from the English, so it was likely created in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick or even Maine.
66 tzopilotl
February 26th, 2010 at 8:12 am
…though a language may die on the tongue, if we have
it in a dictionary or glossary, these epitaphs will mark
its spot in human history. our great good fortune is to
have Nauatl in dictionary form, thank you remí simeon
and siglo veintiuno, isbn 968-23-0573, as it is the font
for all the others. what is needed now is phoneticians
to locate the unwritten languages still extant and put
them on the page. once we do this we have done all we
can by recovery.
the next project is to produce an etymological lexicon
based on the nauatl roots, found in simeon, that i have been teasing out with the letra code, e.g.,
dictionary and lexicon have the same nauatl root: tleco=t/lex/co; diccionario=decir(sp)=d/t/tlec/ir(letra)=tleco(N)=rise.
once we fix the roots=raíz(sp)=r/l/tla(i)za(letra)=
tlaza(N)=throw down,=t/l/raza(letra), there are tricks
to it, e.g., you have to pick the right language going
back to the root, one quickly learns spanish is one of
the paths and portuguese as well. for rhubarb one has
to choose the arabic, rawend=r/l/tla(tla)uentli(letra)=
tlatla-/flame offering/-uentli=tlauentli(N)=t/l/rauen
(letra)=raven(crow)=Ravenna(city). the tla/tlatla prefix=
earth(land) or fire. when letra stops at, t/lavender,
and, t/la(w)(r)en(tli)ce=one/ce fire/tlatla wen/uentli.
you can see one has to work with shards of the original
Nauatl, but the more one breaks words, the more one can
fill in the missing parts.
i would be happy, on this list, to take words that have been puzzling you for one reason or another and
we can practice cracking them by applying letra, the
aim being to be able to use letra on a word without
a text, that is, live, as i have taught myself
to do. it has improved my memory, writing, and given
me the golden key to mythology. the end result is a
wisdom not available in the pretensions(pun)of education
today, and starts the motor of the only time machine
available to mortals, the word.
you may not agree with some of my methods but suspend
your disbelief long enough to absorb the material as you
would in a theatre=t(h)e-a(l)t/re(letra)=tealtia(N)=
the altar(anointing)=t/real(i)ty.
the curse of civilization is the shortened attention
span, which is fine for doing things quickly, but words
are eternal and swim in the ocean of time, in fact, are
the tides of the soul, they’re holy=ollin(N)=(r)ollin’.
67 RedMan
February 26th, 2010 at 8:13 am
How about almost every single langauge spoken in the Americas before before the invasion? Not a real big suprise that wasn’t on here though.
68 Bob
February 26th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Seconding Esperanto.
69 Scratch
February 26th, 2010 at 8:22 am
@mom424 (61):
Of course, as you know, it’s a little more complex than that. Constitutionally Canada is officially bilingual, but, as you point out, Quebec leans the opposite way – quashing English at every turn with its language police.
I lived in Quebec and it was very convenient to go to the variety store to pick up beer. Down with the LCBO and the Beer Store, I say. In my experience, Quebeckers themselves are very accommodating to Anglophones as long as we respect their language. Still, their language policies tend to the ridiculous sometimes – excuse me sir, the Chinese sign on your Chinese restaurant needs to be in French.
Poutine is amazing, but probably should be limited to one serving every two months.
70 Scratch
February 26th, 2010 at 8:24 am
@Sky (65):
Maine!!!
Heresy!
71 mom424
February 26th, 2010 at 8:31 am
@Sky (65):
@Scratch (69):
I lived in Quebec too and truly the only thing that bothers me about the both official language thing is that it doesn’t apply in Quebec. I had little trouble when I lived there and of course, when traveling through, you’re a tourist. It pays to be nice to the tourists. My point about the shitty drivers is way too true though. btw Acadians are french speakers – transplanted Quebecers. (I know this is not the case; Canada was founded by both French and English – I’m jk.) And once or twice a month on the Poutine is likely over doing it. But oh my goodness what a party in the mouth. Too bad your heart has to have the hangover.
72 riveroftrouble
February 26th, 2010 at 8:39 am
Stuff like this is still going on. Im living in the Slovak Republic and a law just passed here which bans the use of Hungarian in any legal documents or government writings. Its probably just the start. Even though I am not personally affected by it, its sad that stuff like this would pass with a majority or even that someone would get the idea to write a law like this.
73 Scratch
February 26th, 2010 at 8:48 am
@mom424 (71):
You’re right, I had a hard time re-adjusting to Ontario drivers when I moved back. It doesn’t help that all of the Quebec roads have more pock-marks than a teenager with bad skin. I really wasn’t surprised when there were all of those collapsing bridges and highways a few years ago (okay, maybe there were three, but that’s three too many).
I had a Poutine place right by my first home there, and the smell would just waft over in the summer time. Inside, though, the grease just hung in the air and you just knew no matter how good it tasted it was just congealing on your arteries.
74 Marv in DC
February 26th, 2010 at 8:54 am
@Scratch (73):
@mom424
What is Poutine?
75 bucslim
February 26th, 2010 at 8:59 am
Poutine is a derogatory name for . . .
76 Freshies
February 26th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Everyone should just speak english, especially the French…haha just kidding. They always get their panties in a bundle about French vs. English it’s just fun to make the mad.
77 bucslim
February 26th, 2010 at 9:00 am
I thought this list was going to be about eating spaghetti.
78 undaunted warrior
February 26th, 2010 at 9:10 am
bucslim@(77) Yea pal I was thinking the same thing.
79 Scratch
February 26th, 2010 at 9:34 am
@bucslim (75):
Thanks, and now the second paragraph sounds particularly perverse.
@Marv in DC (74):
Poutine is French Fries smothered in gravy and cheese curds.
80 Marv in DC
February 26th, 2010 at 9:44 am
@Scratch (79): That sounds..Amazing!
81 Lifeschool
February 26th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Hi there,
I thought the list was ok, but the comments are better today. I love to learn about life in other countries and how things have changed – and yeah – so many languages and dialects need to be preserved – at least in a dictionary or something, so that we can translate and understand things written in our distant past.
To me though, the word Genocide is way too strong for the list (I know I’d falled foul of this myself; using Addiction instead of Compultion as a list title). To me, words and genetics don’t appear to be the same. Perhaps, um, er? erradication?, or attempts at erradication.
Er summat!
Anyroad, bein’ one ‘o last speykers ‘v owd lanky, I reckon th’owd lyst ‘wur grand!
BTW, what’s the picture in number 8 supposed to be? The world largest outdoor swimming pool??
82 bucslim
February 26th, 2010 at 9:59 am
@Scratch (79):
Me? Imply something perverse? Lewd!? How dare you!
- heh heh heh “the smell would waft over in the summertime.”
83 Andree
February 26th, 2010 at 10:01 am
Hmm I wonder if any of the native American languages could also fit into this list.
84 Scratch
February 26th, 2010 at 10:18 am
@Marv in DC (80):
It is quite good.
@bucslim (82):
Wafting poutine smells, aaah, the memories of summer.
85 Lifeschool
February 26th, 2010 at 10:21 am
I was thinking about doing a top 10 list of non-English swear words. Then we can all swear our heads off at each in the name of research. Anybody interested?
86 oouchan
February 26th, 2010 at 10:22 am
@bucslim (82): Wonder if BAJ smells the same?
87 Jack Deth
February 26th, 2010 at 10:25 am
@Lifeschool.
That’s a good idea, my old Granddad told me that if you learn to swear in a language the rest follows. (Mind you, he was a policeman in Egypt during WWII) He taught me how to swear in Egyptian when I was ten, lol, no-one but him and me knew what we were doing, great fun.
I took that lesson and used it for Cantonese and Welsh, it worked a treat too!
88 a horse mauls a ding-a-ling
February 26th, 2010 at 10:30 am
@Suharto Lova (18): see what i mean? this kind of prejudice that makes situation worsen and not better..
@Malaysian (22): shut the fuck up, we’re not the who’s stealing other countries’ culture..
89 Jordan
February 26th, 2010 at 10:36 am
yep..poutine is incredible…has to be real cheese curds though…none of this mozzarella cheese stuff, there’s no substitute.
90 bucslim
February 26th, 2010 at 10:51 am
@oouchan (86):
Don’t be so coy, you know what that smells like.
91 kris
February 26th, 2010 at 11:00 am
#63
I think it would be doubleplusunbad. But i lol’d either way
92 askalon
February 26th, 2010 at 11:07 am
With regard to Esperanto, Native American languages, and possibly others mentioned: I said in the intro that this list did not include languages that declined due to human death. Of course what happened to the American languages was one of the most tragic events in modern history, but the main reason for the downfall of those languages was the death of the Native Americans themselves through murder and disease. I intentionally left it off this list for that reason.
@dr. Hannibal Lecter (40):
This list isn’t about preserving languages (although that’s sometimes the case today, in an attempt to fix the wrongs done). The list was simply to present instances in which languages were persecuted, which is never justified regardless of any communication barriers that may exist.
I don’t think that’s a valid comparison between Latin and the Chinese languages. Latin is dead because it developed into other languages, just like Middle Chinese is dead. That’s not the same as regional languages being faded out in favor of one dominant language, like Mandarin. Language death should never be forced, which is what it would take at the moment to get rid of non-Mandarin Chinese languages in daily life.
I very much disagree that language is “just a tool.” It’s strongly tied to people’s culture, ethnicity, and personal identity. Trying to kill out languages to improve communication would sever ties to the past, not to mention create numerous hurdles in reading historical documents in the future.
And I think it’s near impossible for your language/country/nation/etc. to not define you to some extent. It’s silly to say that yours somehow doesn’t affect your identity. Of course there are many other things to define you as well, but language, etc. is certainly part of it.
@Lifeschool (81):
There are any number of terms you could use to refer to it, but I found “linguistic genocide” to be the most succinct term that got the point across. It’s an accepted term as far as I know; it’s been used by scholars, anyway. I don’t find it too strong personally. Genocide is the systematic killing of a group of people, linguistic genocide is the systematic killing of a language.
93 deeeziner
February 26th, 2010 at 11:08 am
My husband’s grandfather emigrated from the Ukraine as a child. Later, when he had become a father, he refused to teach any Ukrainian language to his children. He was stubborn upon the subject, and my mother-in-law still regrets and is bewildered by his refusal to keep his culture alive.
When an uncle who had settled in Canada came to visit, we were told that there was a lot of stigma planted because of Soviet persecution, and for Poppa that stigma ran very deeply.
He DID pass on some fantastic recipes for stuffed cabbage rolls, though.
94 Lifeschool
February 26th, 2010 at 11:19 am
@askalon (92): Ok, I see that.
@Jack Deth (87): I’m on it!
95 itachi
February 26th, 2010 at 11:23 am
boring =/
96 tzopilotl
February 26th, 2010 at 11:35 am
…75 et al., poutine=po(u)ti(n=nauatl)e(letra)=
potia(N)=unite, assemble,=pot/put(E)things together.
potian(OE)=potia(N)=poa(N)=count,=power(E).
what is derogatory comes from, potli(N)=companion,
=p/both=puto/puta(sp)=po(n)t(Lat)=punt(E/boat)=
po(n)d/poodle(water dogs)=puddle=p/b(r)other, even
bride and bridge warp to potli(N).
97 zlorwf
February 26th, 2010 at 11:37 am
Worst list ever. No researching is done for this.
98 Armodillotron
February 26th, 2010 at 11:47 am
English vs French-which is the best?
99 tzopilotl
February 26th, 2010 at 11:50 am
…itachi(J)=(i)tlacatl(N)=body(weasel). raccoon(E)=
r/l/tlac/oon=tlacatl(N)=tl/t/d(r)ake(male duck)=
dragon racoon=rakka(finn)=sin of bear worship. and,
in the trees, la(r)ch=t/lach/ca(letra)=tlaca. for
mountain=dag(mideast/turk)=d/t/laca, also, adiron-dak=
-dak(amerindian)=d/t/laca(N). adiron=atlil on tlaca(N)=
drinking(atli)al-on-g the mountain. the adirondaks are
laced with high springs.
100 deeeziner
February 26th, 2010 at 11:53 am
All these comments about poutine have made me hungry for the southwest version—-Chili fries!
101 nicoleredz3
February 26th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
@bucslim (77):
Lol!
102 nicoleredz3
February 26th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
@deeeziner (93):
Wow, that’s sad…
@Lifeschool (85):
Good idea! Totally NSFW…
103 ChevalierDupin
February 26th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
I’m surprised Italian is not included on this list given that Italy is still, culturally speaking, not a unified country and depending on the region, dialects still prevail over modern Italian. Without going too much into detail, certain regions (such as the Veneto) often take the opinion that their dialect is just as good if not better than modern Italian, and so many Italians from other parts of the country can feel ostracized when visiting those northern regions as the locals will often purposefully speak in a manner incomprehensible to central or southern italians. Also, in the south, where there are numerous dialects that shift from one city to the next, the Italian government has taken little effort to try and preserve these dialects and most educated families discourage their children from learning and using dialects (conversely, there are some areas that are generally so neglected regarding education that even young adults are practically incapable of speaking modern Italian and resort to speaking a hybrid between their native dialect and Italian). Even with more commonly recognized dialects, such as Neopolitan, there is no authoritative study or text as to how the dialect should be spoken or transcribed, and so the sad reality is that eventually these dialects (some which are extremely rich in history and culture) will die out.
104 nicoleredz3
February 26th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Hold up… Can someone enlighten me seriously about POUTINE? What is it? Forgive me, I live on a itty, bitty Caribbean island…
105 tzopilotl
February 26th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
…and fron potia poutine comes budín(sp)/pudding? ok?
to whoever says this list is horrbile. fuck off and
haunt somewhere else…opinion=opinauh/pinaua(N)=to
redden, embarrass, the root for the word, burn=brennen
(OTeuton)=b(r)/pennon(letra)=pinaua(Nauatl).
106 Moonbeam
February 26th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
@askalon (92): You are mistaken about your comment concerning Native American languages when you say,”the main reason for the downfall of those languages was the death of the Native Americans themselves through murder and disease.” (Maybe you are partially correct because you qualify your statement with the words, “main reason” but the invaders, (from @RedMan (67):), also intentionally quashed the First American’s spoken languages.)
One often forgotten aspect of history is the terrible story of the “Indian Schools” where the children of the First Americans were removed from their families, rarely allowed to visit, and forbidden to speak their native languages. Their hair was cut and they had to wear clothing in the style of the “white man.” They suffered abuse at the hands of those running these boarding schools. The idea behind them was to “kill the Indian, not the man.” Destroying their language was another way to attempt to destroy their culture.
107 Scratch
February 26th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
@nicoleredz3 (104):
Poutine is French Fries covered in gravy and cheese curds.
108 Oreithyia
February 26th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Excellent list!
I was an exchange student in Madrid, and upon coming back to the US and talking about Spain’s multiple languages, people’s minds were blown.
It sad that languages are being lost. It’s been shown that a language reflects peoples attitudes and philosophies as much as it is a medium for conveying them. It saddens me to think people see the loss of languages as a good thing because it stream-lines communication, when in reality it limits how many different ways one can think and interpret.
109 T
February 26th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
‘in Syria, Kurdish is banned in most contexts.’
No it isn’t. Have you been there recently? Didn’t think so. Sort it out.
110 tzopilotl
February 26th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
…in 1713 in new hampshire there was a bounty of $4
for a dead squaw and child, cf., dictionary of americanisms, uchicago., published in the newspaper
of that time. and then there’s lord jeffrey amherst,
now the town of that name, who handed out pox-ridden blankets to the indians in his area of western mass.
111 TheBean
February 26th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
I don’t know if anyone else offered up Amazigh (also known as Berber) as another example. The Amazigh are the indigenous peoples of of North Africa, whose language and culture suffered under Islamization. Amazigh children were ridiculed about their language to the point that to this day, many adult Amazigh will not admit their background but will instead claim to be Arabs. There have been some half-hearted, conciliatory attempts to teach it in schools to children in the past 10 years, but those who teach it don’t actually speak the language (they speak Arabic) and don’t care, so the children don’t actually learn anything. Therefore, we have native speakers refusing to speak and reveal themselves as members of a culture still promoted as intellectually and spiritually backward by the status quo and new generations not learning, leading to serious language endangerment.
112 Arsnl
February 26th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
@deeeziner (93): hey deeez. since i am an immigrant (from estern europe) i strongly believe that my culture will have to be transmitted to my (hypothetical) kids.
But thats only because i believe in the values that i received from my family. But a very patriotic caracteristic was given to me by a very head strong history prof in a period when my opinion and my personality were developing. She made me see sometimes the importance of my cultures and why it is special (for me). I would have been a different person if i were born in a different part. But i needed this guidance. For example my dad never got it. So its really from person to person. I had the chance to see the bright side of my country. Its quite often for people not to transfer their culture because they are ashamed of it and think that their kids deserve better.
Sometimes i do wonder though, even if i pass my heritage, what would my (hypothetical) kids. Would they really feel it or would it be a nice topic to share at a party. And what about grandkids. How would they be? Wouldnt it be even worse? But i dont think its sad, i just only think its life and that every person would have the choice to be part of whatever culture they desire
113 BethanM
February 26th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
I live in Scotland and we all speak English,in this list it says that Scots is a language, what’s that about?
114 tzopilotl
February 26th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
…amazigh(berber), their name for themselves, mazyes=
mazatl/deer yes/yectli(Nauatl)<mazyectli(N). mazyes have
the oldest sister haplo blood group in europe at 52k bc. there is some question as whether they are not the original deer tribe of israel=yizrael=yec r/l/tla(e)lli
(letra)=yectlalli(N)=the yes(good)land, as the full name
may be, mazyectlalli(N)=the excellent(yes)deerland, this
after 40k bc when north afrika and the mideast were wet,
the deer being animals of the raingod tlaloc=t/l/rar/loc
(letra)=rarog(baltic/russian raingod). the word meat,
used by scands/rus/teuton/angles has its root in, mazatl,
e.g., matr(ON)mats(goth)matiz(Cgerm)mat(r)iz(sp)=womb,
maz(OHG). the lagar velho child, portugal, 26kbc, is
buried between the pelvis of a deer, with calendric
trapping of the tonalamatl(N)=the deer calendar book
of souls. deer=deor=d/teot/l/r(letra)=teotl=theother.
then there's the massagettae=alani, who were pushed
westward by the mongols, began the wardog breed, bred
cattle and horse, ended up in spain, england, france,
were the aryans hitler was so fond of. when he attacked
england, their descendents were there waiting for him,
to which i say to adolf: no se estudia por pendejo/
you don't study to be a fool.
115 Askalon
February 26th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
@Moonbeam (106):
I’m aware that the Europeans/white Americans did try to repress Native American culture and language (although I hadn’t heard of the boarding schools before, thanks for sharing that). But that seems like a drop in the bucket compared to the sweeping destruction that took place through war, murder, forced labor, and disease. In Spanish America I know that 90% of the native population dead within the first 150 years of conquest. I don’t know if those numbers are consistent throughout all of the Americas, but assuming they more or less hold true, that is by far the biggest cause of the loss of the languages, the death of the speakers. Of course that in no way mitigates the attempts to further kill their languages, but I made this list to look at the decline of languages in which the focus was not on human death.
@Oreithyia (108):
Well said.
@T (109):
If I made an error, or if my sources were wrong or outdated, then feel free to provide evidence showing that. And in return I’ll sit here and say “oops.”
116 Horror
February 26th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
What about Indigenous Australians? From hundreds of different languages, only a few dozen now survive with only dozens of speakers. The cultural imperialism and linguistic and actual genocide of Aboriginal Australians by English invaders is well documented.
117 atheists ea fish
February 26th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
I love this list! Excellent job. It is so sad especially since language is a huge part of culture and identity. Well done!
118 tzopilotl
February 26th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
…scots are the schottisch=xochitl(N)=flower lords
in 4k bc, a sea age, they looked and sometimes acted
like tiger woods, dealt in tobacco, a pre-agriculture plant. the oldest god mexico has is macui xochitl=5flower=
macuo xigil(thoreau/the maine woods)=tobacco used by
thoreau’s guide, related to xolotl, the evening star
and dog(understudy for the later devil),
the dogwood tree used for smoke named for him,
reigning in amecamecan by white lady and popoca(N)=smoking mountain=tepetl(N)=tepe(mideast)=tipi(amerindian)=(s)tep(pe)=t/thebes=tibet=te(m)ple=tiptr(ONorse), e.g.,
gangen(aberdeen)=g/ca(n)c/gen(letra)=cactli(N)=
mo-cac-tzin(amerindian)=my honorable/tzin shoes=xotl(N)=
foot. gangen(also german)=to go. xotl(N)=xodeet(rus)=
frequentive of go, joder(sp)=screw(foot on)=j/xotl/t/der,
=jota(sp)=jack(cards)=footman. and so on.
the flower of scotland: thistle=thistil(OSax/ON)
=distel(LGer/Du)=th/ti(s)tet/l(letra)=ti(tla)tetl(N)=
between stone=stein=in/(s)tetl(N)=the stone, but,
stone=tona(tiuh)=sungodstone)=tun(mayan)=town(E)=
-ton(E)=urb suffix.
this is what the follow up to finnegan’s wake will look like, but not begin with the liffy=life,
but life=vivir(sp)=uiuil(letra)=tlauilli/
tlauiz(N)=torch, e.g., tlauiz=tla/dawiz=dawn,=
lavi/lavil(mayan)=today/now=la vie(Fr)=live life.
words to live by, torchy.
so joyce has liffy wrong to begin with, as life is
a brand, burning up, e.g., atletl(N)=athlete=tletl=fire.
lethe/lethargy is tlil(N)=black,=lilith(goddess).
one can say first language nauatl got a boost from
promethean neandratal fire drill and probably goes back
to 550/300k bc when the neandertals had europe caved.
119 Lifeschool
February 26th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
@tzopilotl (117): Some of your comments make a lot of sense. Some, such as 114 and 117 DONT! Please, do I understand you are trying to tell us about your language to help us understand it, but really, it all looks like machine code (programming language) to me. If you could be any clearer….?
BTW, I’m half way through my top 10 non-english swear words list – so no copyin’!
120 Matt R
February 26th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Great list, but I can’t help but think that the world would be a better place if we all had the same language. Then maybe we might be able to understand each other better and get along. I am not for destroying traditions or history, but nationalism is second only to religion in getting us to kill each other.
121 kiwikiwikiwi
February 26th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
@Tamahau (57): Further to that it was also banned by a significant number of chiefs as far back as the 1800′s and before state schooling was extended to Iwi. Being very capitalistic people they saw an advantage in their people only speaking what was, in effect, an economic language.
It is a very interesting case in that the Maori language was suppressed by both the British and in many cases Maori leadership. It is also interesting to see the resurgence now which has put many almost extinct words back into mainstream usage today.
In terms of language (as a dynamic cultural artifact) we have a very interesting case here in New Zealand.
122 BicycleBum
February 26th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
The Maori language was supressed in New Zealand. My wife is Maori and told me stories that her mother told of being slapped and beaten for speaking Maori in school.
123 mom424
February 26th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
@nicoleredz3 (104): @Moonbeam (106): @Askalon (115): Those horrible residential schools ran until the early 1970′s. Rip a child from his home and subject him to systemic abuse, both sexual and physical, and just guess what happens. Truly one of the most shameful undertakings of our past. We’re still paying for it too; how many of those damaged children became damaged adults? and their children? Many of those schools were run by protestant clergy btw – systemic abuse is not the sole purvey of the Catholic Church.
124 wahyudani
February 26th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
yuhuuu..nice one
i’m just read entry no.3 though lol :p
keep up the good work
125 M. Hunt
February 26th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
I can definitely see the reasoning behind banning these languages; it’s much easier to communicate and it eases relations between the ‘victims’ and the ‘oppressors’.
Personally, I consider learning a language you will never likely use widely is a waste of time. Learning French in Canada, a dialect of Chinese in Vancouver (a large proportion of the population speak it) and Filipino (along with English) in the Philippines are all justified.
However, I just don’t see the benefit in learning Welsh or the like, as hardly anyone speaks it outside of their originating region. Resources and the time put into teaching and learning minor languages could be better used with a major language, or with a more useful subject.
126 ants1
February 26th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
Hey Thanks guys for confirming all that stuff about the Maori language, I remembered parts of it from some doco i had seen. Maori is deffinately well looked after these days, I was taught maori weekly in primiary school and the ooption was there in college to continue on as well.
It is goos to seee it get support because as much as we complain about Maoris in this country sometimes, we just wouldnt be New Zealand without them.
127 Weegmc
February 26th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
Good list but the Irish thing is somewhat misleading. the use of the Irish language in Northern Ireland remains a somewhat contentious issue. While in the Republic all street signage is in both English and Irish, this is not the case up North, because of opposition from Unionists. Of course the history presented fails to mention laws that outlawed the use of the language and the violence inflicted upon locals who did not use anglicized names.
And in another twist there was a move afoot to include Irish as an official UN language, which means that UN would translate documents and speeches into Irish. I believe the Irish government did not support the initiative and I believe it is still not an ‘official’ UN language.
128 tzopilotl
February 26th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
…tks, 119/lifeskoal, i went mad with letra again. it’s
a mantra for me, like prayer, but is not computer lang.
altho it could be, these are letra morphs or even moths
which go from one idiom to another based on nauatl pie,
the sounds get chewed up as they move around, the micro-biology of the carriage of sound. i’ve been teaching it to myself and am practicing speaking it. i don’t mean to
be misunderstood, just want to get behind the word to its
origin and root connexions. a different mind than ours invented language, or catalogued it, a mind that was
episodic and melodic. when you think about it, how did
language start if not by song, e.g., the mod equivalent would be to construct a language from all the old rockn’
roll songs and then hand it to people who use it for
a less heroic and melodic culture, say, traders who counted cowries and beans as currency. neander prometheus never developed a larger social unit than the extended family, he didn’t live a long span, 35yrs average, hunted
like a rodeo cowboy, but somebody, probably neandra started naming things in a most observant and profound
way, charted the stars, never in the best of health except when they could find iodine for healthy babys,
but their brains were larger than ours and that capacity
was as always the result of stimulus. they are not called
the fallen angels for nothing, they gave us the gods thru
their burials and belief in an after-life(ochre=resusitate
from ocelix/celia=blossom)at 100k bc. so i’m just working
all these pieces. there is also evidence, neandra started
the deer calendar, the tonalamatl=tonalli=soul papers,
the first book, carried around by memory like the language. since they got banged up frequently, one of them
became the shaman=xamani(N)=destroy/chamaua(N)=praise,
elogum(Lat)elogy(E), notice the 2 roots, one positive and
one negative, and the memory bank for the others. our memorys are mighty but ciuia(N)=prosecute, stimulate,
activate,=civilization by its very nature grinds memory
and therefore language down. you can see it happening
around you, on the internet, any media. what i am trying
to do is stop this process of erosion and lost language,
right now and on this list i am training for it, keeping
a record of my progress. this is why i love internet.
by the way, life and love come from the same source,
tlauilli/tlauiz=torch, they are a pair, if one lives
and hates it’s no good. the farther back you go in
language the holier and more musical it gets. that’s
what tells me we didn’t begin language, it doesn’t
start in a tribe, it starts in a family where love is,
and time is not a clock beside us every minute, no,
it is a noma/nomatka/nomatzinco(N)=forever, always,
spontaneous, the same=nomad. nomatzinco(N)=my net/my
deer/mazatl(N). neander was the first deer hunter.
anyway, you’re right, it’s very compressed, but i want
to get it down, huge subject that it is. for the first
time in my life i’m in a hurry. don’t know why. think
it’s important to bring back the music, the holy, i guess,
in an age that could be apocalyptic anytime, hidden
forever under the folds of a nuclear ski(r)t.
…120/matt=mati(N)=to know=matlatl(N)=net=nomatzinco(N)=
nomad(wandering scholar?). we have one language, Nauatl,
the rest of them are branches, this is the trunk and roots(at 5k bpe it hadn’t branched out yet/quetzalcoatl expedition to amerindia, 3309bc). if we are headed for
one language we’ll go back to origin as i don’t think etymology can be denied. i’m working on a way to present
letra at an early level along with the first abc’s,
in nauatl’s case ace’s. check out tzopilotl wordpress and tletl blogspot. sorry to be crass=caxaua(N)=render,=cash=
crassus(Lat)=grasa(sp)=greasey and promote myself, but
what the hay=ay(N)=to do. i appreciate your good manners
on this subject. manner=mana(N)=manar(sp)=flow.
129 Ian
February 26th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
I’m suprised American Sign Language didn’t make the list. Some hearind people have been trying to get rid of it ever since Alexander Grahm Bell.
(And yes, ASL and other sign languages do meet all the requirements for languages.)
130 likelyguy
February 26th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
This is only offered in the vein of lost languages. Here on the North-West Pacific coast of America, there was a trade language known as Chinook; a bit English, French and Native, and some was simply onomatopoeic (the word for heart was ‘tum tum’). Until about the 1910′s there were newspapers still written in it. Natives, English adventurers, American gold-seekers, old Hudson’s Bay Co. Frenchmen and Chinese miners all learned to speak it.
Klahowya, Tillicum.
131 Englishfirst
February 26th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
What’s the point of these countries having two signs? English is becoming and should be the world language. It’s total waste of education time to learn other languages.
132 likelyguy
February 26th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
@Englishfirst (131):
Well spoken *giggle*.
133 General Tits Von Chodehoffen
February 26th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
@M. Hunt (125): I agree dude. Don’t know why anyone would want to learn crappy languages.
134 BravehisTickle
February 26th, 2010 at 9:48 pm
English is the only true global language in the world on which people should devote more time in improving their skills.
135 likelyguy
February 26th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
@BravehisTickle (134):
Bravo *applause*.
136 roncaddy
February 27th, 2010 at 12:48 am
good list and i think u have missed the state sanctioned genocide by srilankan government over minority tamil speaking people ,forcing them to seek sanctuary in western countries , and still thousands of tamils are kept in concetration camps . i think this is the most outrageous attemp by any govt to kill a language along with its people.
137 Riesstu
February 27th, 2010 at 2:11 am
@Armodillotron (39): I think you’ll find the British Empire was spreading English around the world long before the United States rose to superpower status. At its height the British Empire counted some 500,000,000 people as subjects, many millions of which were taught English as a second language (even if it was only pidgin in some cases).
138 eddie
February 27th, 2010 at 2:39 am
good list, although personally i reckon the term “linguistic genocide” for item 10 is a little harsh. the speak mandarin campaign is simply that, a campaign, and was implemented in singapore to try and break down language barriers between chinese who spoke different dialects. it wasn’t exactly like dialects were banned… but i guess i can kind of see your point. “genocide” just feels a little extreme.
139 archangel
February 27th, 2010 at 2:50 am
It’s okay! ‘Internet’ is taking over the world – soon all other languages will be eradicated and replaced by net-lingo lol rofl lmao!
140 anaxahra
February 27th, 2010 at 6:12 am
“Iraq is notable for being perhaps the most accepting of its Kurdish population; it is an official language there, and has been allowed in education, administration, and the media.”
Excuse me? Have you not heard of the Iraqi Kurdish genocide (Al Anfal Campaign)? Iraq’s record is not as clean as you imply. You really need to reword your statement and brush up on your history.
Also, while you state that this list is not actual genocide, you still use the word that means “geno: race & cide: kill” So, if you don’t mean to talk about the destruction of a race of people, why not use a word more fitting?
141 scientifis
February 27th, 2010 at 7:17 am
The English did not realise their error and try and protect the Irish language. The Irish government promotes it. It wasnt just banned in education, it was banned in everyday life too.
142 RedMan
February 27th, 2010 at 7:38 am
@115: What you don’t realise is that Native American children would be beaten if they used their native language. There was also a mental hospital built in South Dakota(I think) that was entirely for Native Americans and if the adults were caught using their native language they would be put in solitary confinement. I heard of one story where a man spent like 12 years in solitary for refusing to quit speaking his language. Of course it’s quite likely that he didn’t understand english and was just trying to communicate the only way he knew.
143 Kiroux
February 27th, 2010 at 7:54 am
Thanks for this list! I’m doing a course in linguistics this year and find it very interesting that language has become such a political and charged issue. In South Africa, we have a tremendous amount of indigenous languages (such as that of the San people) that have been persecuted by those who see it as of no importance yet it is vital to the survival of any culture.
144 tzopilotl
February 27th, 2010 at 8:03 am
…the new republic just reviewed louis menand’s
the marketplace of ideas, ww norton, in the politics section, cf., humanities and inhumanities, which makes
the point we are too over-balanced in the inhumanities,
science, et al, and have nothing for the humanities
except servitude in graduate school and low-paying jobs.
letra can go a long way to redressing the balance as it
takes the mask off words and reveals and preserves their
true moral and religious power from the assaults of
laboratory drones. i’m not declaring war on science,
any knowledge is useful, we need technolgy but technology
needs the language bishop=teachcuauhtli=teacher to
give them a deeper understanding of where the human church
is located=tloc(N)=beside(logic, of a moral character).
we lack that and, on these lists and elsewhere, the only
recourse we have to offer without it, is the politics of
disgust. so let me continue laying down letra from the
one language which miracle and the will=ilhuia(N) of
god-struck neandra promethea and deer culture tonalamatl has handed us from the sistine ceiling(=ocelotl(N)=cielo) of the stars. something looks out for our global family, and it’s not ourselves, must be theother=teotl(N), or,
as i suspect, since speech came into being to express
teotl theother theology, it is language itself, related
to fire=tletl(N)=t/let/l=letra=t/l/red/t/l=read=
t/ler/l/tl=leer(sp)=lernia(OFrisian)=le(o)rnian(OE)=
learning, note Old Frisian doesn’t have the (n)nauatl,
because the quetzalcoatl expedition was part of the
nauatlaca sea age of 4k bc. remember the oera linda.
145 chubbmeister
February 27th, 2010 at 8:37 am
@tzopilotl (144):
Dear script, I think you should reboot…
seriously, I don’t understand most of your posts…
146 Sick Semper
February 27th, 2010 at 8:56 am
Any mention of pig latin!
147 GannonGallow
February 27th, 2010 at 10:23 am
One thing that I haven’t seen anyone take into account yet is the constant changes that languages go through. The natural evolution of language over time creates, and kills off tons of words and dialects to the point where the language a Frenchmen speaks today isn’t even close to the language that his recent ancestors spoke even though they are both use/used French.
Personally I’m in favor of moving to a one world language, and with the internet, and mass communication there is a good chance that it will happen on its own over time.And as sad as it would be to see some very beautiful languages go out of vogue, I believe that the sacrifice would be well worth it, because a common language among all men would be one of the biggest steps we could make toward achieving world peace.
148 Fodland
February 27th, 2010 at 11:11 am
An addition to the list could’ve been what the norwegians did to the sami, a minority in Norway.
Use of sami was banned at schools, all sami were forced to learn norwegian ( at the time). I believe the same happened to the gypsies. At the early 1900s it was even decreed that only norwegian citizens who could talk and read norwegian, and use norwegian on a daily basis could buy properties!
149 Armodillotron
February 27th, 2010 at 11:34 am
It wasn`t a genocide when Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons against the Kurds. It was a rebellion, which had been encouraged by Iran. And when he used chemical weapons, people said that Iran did it. And if Saddam Hussein and Chemical Ali were war-criminals for killing the Kurds then why aren`t Turkey? And what happened in America to Native Americans also happened in Canada. For the life of me, I`ll never understand the people who do these things.
150 tzopilotl
February 27th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
…145/chubby, get off your fat, complacent ass and apply
yourself to the material, cf., tzopilotl wordpress,
tletl blog spot, chess/goddesses, matilda’s gobekli blog,
or just put in, carlos lascoutx on google. it’s not my fault you are t/laza(N)=lazy. feed your head, as gracy slick said…and not your mouth=camatl=c/g(r)ammar/l/tl.
do something with yourself besides whinging, pick up a book, lick the cover, stuff a page into your mouth or
wherever.
151 tzopilotl
February 27th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
…133, so he wouldn’t have to look at his tits or
chode all day long, huffin’ puffin.
152 Jack Deth
February 27th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
@tzopilotl,
I think chubbmeister has a point. I’m interested in what you say as well, but the format in which your posts appear make it quite hard to read.
153 dopetype
February 27th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
ummm
NATIVE INDIANS?
AFRICANS?
WEST INDIANS?
154 alex
February 27th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
KAIXO.MY FAMILY IS BASQUE AND THE LANGUAGE IS UNFORTUNATELY NOT SPOKEN IN MY HOUSE DUE TO THE POLITICAL INFLUENCE OF BANNING IT BY FRANCO’S POLICIES AT THE TIME.IF YOU WERE CAUGHT SPEAKING BASQUE IT WAS AN AUTOMATIC 3 MONTH JAIL SENTENCE.NO QUESTIONS ASKED.THERE WERE UNDERGROUND CLASSES HELD IN PLACES EVEN TO THIS DAY CALLED “GURE TXOKOS”(SALOON BARS BUT ACTUALLY TRANSLATED AS “OUR CORNER”)SCHOOLS BANISHED THE LANGUAGE AND AND EVEN TO THIS DAY BUT IT HAS RELAXED ITS LAWS NOW AND BECOMING MORE EXCEPTED IN CERTAIN AREAS BUT DISCRIMINATION IS STILL BEING PRESENT.UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE RADICAL GROUPS LIKE ETA WHICH BELIEVE IT OR NOT STARTED AS A CULTURAL ORGANIZATION TO CREATE DIALOGUE WITH THE SPANISH GOVERNMENT BUT HAD SPLINTERED OFF FROM WITHIN ITS RANKS TO BECOME MORE MILITARY.THIS IS A MINORITY BASQUE GROUP WHICH MOST BASQUE DISAGREE WITH AND UNFORTUNATELY THE MEDIA PORTRAYS IT AS IF IT IS A NATIONAL TERRORIST GROUP WHICH ALL BASQUE PEOPLE ARE APART OFF.THIS IS NOT TRUE. IT IS STILL CONSIDERED “AGAINST SPANISH POLICY” TO THIS DAY FOR CERTAIN COUNCIL DECISIONS IN THE BASQUE REGION AND CAN BE OVER RULE PUBLIC VOTES IF IT IS CONSIDERED TO PATRIOTIC IN NATURE OR AGAINST SPANISH POLICY(THATS DEMOCRACY FOR YOU ACCORDING TO SPANISH IDEAOLOGY!!!)MADE IN THE BASQUE REGION.NATIONALISM AND SOCIALISM ARE THE GROWING TRENDS AND SECULARISM ARE THE SIDE EFFECTS OF WHAT SPAIN HAS BECOME TODAY.IT IS MORE ATHEISTIC NOW IN ATTITUDE AND IS ACTUALLY BECOMING A VERY ANTI CATHOLIC SOCIETY.CHURCHES ARE MORE USED LIKE MUSEUMS NOW THAN PLACES OF WORSHIP.COMMUNISM IS BEING HEAVILY INFLUECED IN THE SPANISH FILM INDUSTRY AND ANTI CATHOLIC MOVIES CREATING FICTIONAL STORY LINES IN THERE FILMS CREATING MORE OF A HATE SOCIETY.SPAIN IS NOT SPAIN ANYMORE AND UNFORTUNATLEY WITH IT MORALS GOING BACKWARDS IN NATURE AND SECULARISM ON THE RISE SPAIN IS GOING TO END UP ISLAMIC AND PAGAN…I SAY ISLAMIC AND PAGAN BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE SURROUNDING COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE AND GERMANY WE ARE SEEING A THIRST FOR THE SPIRITUAL LIFE DUE TO THE REJECTION OF CHRISTIANITY(CATHOLISM ESPECIALLY).AND IF WE REJECT CHRISTIANITY THROUGH A BIAS SOCIETY WE GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO FILL THE SPIRITUAL VOID.WE ARE SEEING A RISE OF EUROPEAN CONVERTS TO ISLAM AND PAGANISM THROUOUT EUROPE WHICH IS HIGHLY EXCEPTED BY GOVERNMENTS BECAUSE THEY DONT CONFLICT OR THREATEN WITH THERE POLICIES.CATHOLISM IS A HIGH THREAT IN EUROPE BECAUSE IT STANDS UP TO ALOT OF THE ISSUES LIKE ABORTION(IS ONE EXAMPLE) AND CERTAIN UN DECISIONS.ONCE WERE THE DAYS AND TIMES OF SAINTS FERDINAND AN ISABELLA.THE GLORY OF CHRISTENDOM.THATS WHAT SPAIN WAS.AND NOW SPAIN HAS REJECTED IT AND ARE CAPITALISING ON CHRISTIANS AND USING US AS MUSEUM PIECES FOR THE TOURIST INDUSTRY AND GOVERNMENT FUNDING.I LOVE SPAIN DONT GET ME WRONG.BUT THATS NOT THE SPAIN THAT WAS A LEADIND EXAMPLE OF THE DEFENCE OF CATHOLISM DURING THE REFORMATION. ST IGNATIO DE LOYOLA WAS BASQUE AND HIS FIRST PRAYER EVER TAUGHT WAS THE “OUR FATHER”IN BASQUE(EUSKAR) BY HIS MOTHER.”QUE VIVA ESPANA”BUENO, UNA VEZ EN HISTORIA AS PUEDIDO CANTAR ESTA CANZION.,…….agur(bye)
155 tzopilotl
February 27th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
…152/d/tetl/t/th. chubbs is right, of course, but i
am in the same position as toyoda toyota, i have a manufacturing process called letra which is hurried
and the result has been a stuck accelerator, how i reached this process is hidden to you unless you have
simeon’s nauatl dictionary and george vaillant’s aztecs
of mexico(in penguin pb). i work out of assorted dictionarys, onions engl etym being one, and just used
francis passow’s(source of liddell and scott’s greek works), harper &bros, 1855, to source,
caucasian=cuauh/-tiquiza(N)=make a stop/squeeze=
quiza(N)=in the road-cax/s-itl(letra)=caxitl(N)=shield,
glass of water(refreshment)for matilda’s gobekli blog.
i crack words by the book, at the same time repeating
myself to lift it off the page and put it in my memory chip. the notation i have developed for this is based
on what i find useful on the keyboard, because of html’s
structure i can’t use the arrows(><)which i originally
used to denote coming to()root nauatl.
this flaws html(for me) as storage system, however the
notation system i am using now is not impossible,
it requires a visual effort similar to matching cyrillic script to its sound(takes a week or less). if the problem
is the punctual notation, we can discuss it, but so far
this is the best way for me to produce the working of letra. i am not intending to write pure script, these
are linguistic etymologic notations that, at best, follow
and contribute to the meaning, altho when i get going
i intoxicate on words and my feeling for them.
is that bad? i suppose it is as i am writing for my enjoy-
ment rather than coddling reader like a wine steward.
as i write i try to let one word generate the next
as i would like to rewrite winnegan’s fake in line with
nauatl root, and you can see me doing that as i veer
from one etymology to another. i’m not good at it yet,
as i am breaking surface logic for the meaning underneath, but i am going to persevere until i can
bring etymology to the top as a writing style,
and the information words unlock will be the plot,
which like winnegan’s is mythology. that’s the goal,
but a lot of interesting things are happening along
the way. for instance a sound program based on the
abc’s/ace’s(N)can be made into a game for preschoolers
at alphabet level to give them a headstart and interest
in language they will never lose, dispose them to foreign language early(the hearts and minds of others)so the
next generation can recuperate from the battering of
language that’s going on now on the internet and media, and to produce leaders like obama who can talk and think on their feet. the spoken word is the most important tool
to govern, e.g., tlatoani(N)=great tlalker. we are too
quiet as a nation, quiet breeds frustration, frustration
breeds vi(o)lence=ui(o)lana(N)=to drag=vi(o)la, and
violence is the ultimate misunderstanding called war.
my question to you is: why can’t i do this? put
the internet page to use other than feelgood chitchat,
or swearing signifying nothing. even a business has an
interest in presenting something other than a turnstyle
which hoovers personal details.
156 tzopilotl
February 27th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
…154, laubide/crossroads. religion almost suffocated
spain, glad to hear the word, secular, puts me in mind of
the spanish word for dry/seco, while the church is wet?
actually saecularis is from, tzaqua(N)=to close in/encerrar(each man about his business? prisoner of himself? as opposed to catholic=universal=(e)cath/t/tl=
ecatl=wind(everywhere).
the basque problem is they had an ancient interchange,
evangel, and breeding from the kingdom of bithynia, so
the basques have turkish affinity. the problem is complicated by their not knowing this goes all the way
back to 4k bc, as they were the nauatlaca of quetzalcoatl,
e.g.,nehuatl/nehua/ne(N)=I/myself/me=nerau/neu/ni(basque).
i have personally suffered by not knowing my own
lineage(and avoiding the bad parts). it leaves you open
to genetic twists of fate, gives you no reason for your
emotions except feeling(the basque rebels)and blocks the
future we all want. they are a great and good people in
history and now. in bithynia they lived in their forest
fastness, lived in orchard culture, e.g., sagardi(vasco)=
apple orchard=sagaria(main river, bithynia), were
highly sucessful in commerce, were one of the few countrys who resisted alexander=tleco andros=the rising
of men, who had to pass them by.
157 alex
February 27th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
no i dont agree that religion suffocated spain.like i said above they
(the government)are capitalizing on the religious past and at the same time effectivly trying to denounce it as if what and is a problem.you just have to read spanish literature to see the the re-conquer of spain from the moors(islam)to bring civilization back into the country.Spain is going backwards to a time when christian views were considered second class.like modern iraq and most islamic run countries
158 tzopilotl
February 27th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
…alex, you have a point. i admire the quiet church
of spain, the cloisters, the orders, the jesuits, any
true religious impulse. i didn’t admire torquemada and
the massacre of 9 million people in siglo quince,
mostly women herbalists and parteras. in mexico it’s
hard to admire the church, as we are a secular country
por ley, and have just reaffirmed that in the camera de
deputados, but in spain you can.
you talk of christianity as second class: in russia
a peasant is called, krestyan/christian. my etymology for
christian=ch(r)/qui(s)ttani(N)=who sees,=quittani(N)=
witness/whitney(name). christ=ch(r)/qui(s)toa(N)=who talks
=quitoa(N), but catholic comes from the witch and weaving
goddess, hecate=ehecatl(N/2soultones)=(e)catedrál, she
is the wind and why catholic =universal, as wind is
life, e.g, quattre(Fr)=(e)ca/quat/t/l/r(letra)=
ecatl/ehecatl(N/2), cuatro/4 meaning no center(which is 5). i got onto that etym. through the welsh word,
cadwent(W)=battle=ecat/l-uent/li(N)=wind offering,
both words have a 4 value as offerings are to the 4/nauh.
159 Matt
February 27th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Some people here have serious problems with writing coherent posts…
160 Late O’Day
February 27th, 2010 at 10:54 pm
Regarding Native American languages …
I’m hearing a lot of PC BS from people who probably never even met an actual American Indian. Yes, there were despicable attempts to suppress culture, but a HUGE reason for the decline is that precious few of these languages had any sort of a WRITING SYSTEM. Even today. Others have different and conflicting systems, as attempts to develop alphabets are started and dropped and started and dropped, etc.
And, sadly, many tribes are not too keen about accepting help from outsiders – linguists capable of rectifying the problem. I understand their concerns and hesitance (they’ve been screwed over so many other times). Nonetheless, the net result is still self-inflicted slow death for many NA languages.
161 tzopilotl
February 28th, 2010 at 8:24 am
…mati(N),and some people just want ear candy. the serious problem is not having the attention span and
therefore the curiosity to apply oneself to something
new, so don’t complain, ride on into the wordless desert
you inhabit and stare at the mirages the media has for you.
162 dr. Hannibal Lecter
February 28th, 2010 at 9:12 am
@askalon (92): It is silly – to say the least – to presume you know more about me than myself. 知之为知之,不知为不知,是知也。
163 Moonbeam
February 28th, 2010 at 9:49 am
@tzopilotl (144): The whole purpose of writing and language is to communicate. What you post is not clear to English speaking people. Whatever it is that you are trying to tell us is lost. When this is suggested to you – you accuse us of being lazy in not attempting to learn your unique way of expressing yourself. Doesn’t it make more sense to use the common language that is shared by those who frequent this site, rather than some new language that you seem to have created yourself?
I’m not sure how to say this without offending you…My brother writes long rambling essays that don’t make sense to anyone but himself. When pressed to explain he becomes extremely angry. Sadly he has been treated for metal illness for many many years. I honestly write this out of concern, not as some sort of insult such as when people say: “Are you crazy?”. In all seriousness, are you OK? There are some chemical imbalances of the brain that affect clear thinking. When my brother writes his papers they seem to make perfect sense to him. When he’s receiving medication and then looks back at his writing he cannot decipher what he’s previously spent so much time penning. Often once the pills kick in, the neurotransmitters in his brain return to “normal” and it’s easier for everyone to understand him.
My other thought is that you have some form of Autism and can’t accept that we won’t try to enter your world by deciphering your posts.
164 C
February 28th, 2010 at 10:24 am
North American Indian languages are among the most suppressed in the world.
165 Bill Chapman
February 28th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Someone has mentioned Esperanto, and another contributor suggested (foolishly in my view) that English should become a world language.I am convinced that Esperanto has a role to play in protecting minority languages.
The first ever text book in Welsh designed to teach the international language Esperanto has just been published. The Mini-Cwrs is a 36 page guide to Esperanto, consisting of ten lessons, some reading exercises and a vocabulary. The man behind the new booklet is Harry Barron of Machynlleth.
Esperanto is a language introduced in 1887 by Dr. L.L. Zamenhof after years of development. He proposed Esperanto as a second language that would allow people who speak different native languages to communicate, yet at the same time retain their own languages and cultural identities. Esperanto doesn’t replace anyone’s language but simply serves as a common language. The first tiny guide to the language was published in 1910, and a two-way dictionary in Esperanto and Welsh was published in 1985.
Mini-Cwrs Esperanto is available for £1.50 plus £0.50 postage from Esperanto Federation of Wales, 8 Vardre View, Deganwy, CONWY, LL31 9TE, Wales,U.K.
166 tzopilotl
February 28th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
…mati(N), excuse me for being rude to you, but haven’t
you ever wondered how we got to 26 letters for the english alphabet and that nauatl, an unwritten language,
has only 13 sounds? how we got from 13 to 26 is what letra
is all about, you know, the part of my posts nobody seems to understand, the transition from 13-26 is what i am expressing here. what were the first letters, at least
from 5k bpe, altho language is a lot older than that.
i don’t mind your complaining, but the polite thing to
do in this case is to ask a question so that learning,
yours and mine, can be advanced. my notion of education
is that it’s an ensemble effort by all hands, a group
project only graded by the results of the cooperation,
not an individual effort, except for what contributes to
the knowledge pool of all concerned, this explains why
american education and others provide poor results.
it may be my united approach to education should only be used at the beginning levels as kids brains need help
from each other at first, but i contend group efforts
are the best at whatever age, e.g., the breaking of the
mayan code was done by a group of people using computers
over coffee clatches. it’s hard for a solitary person
to equal the power of a group, seems unfair one person
has to carry the whole load, when dictionarys are developed it takes an entire team working together,
gathering the slips of words, proof reader, and printer,
etc. the best fun is accomplishing something, it energizes, leads you forward to another place in your
mind so you can leave the old haunt idleness has created
for you. when i get bored, it’s time to create, when
you think about it, boredom is probably what created
the universe in the first place.
167 tzopilotl
February 28th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
…165, esperanto doesn’t have any spark=chitoni(N)=
chthonic, it comes out of an individual forehead, as
athena came from zeus. real language has a mother and
a biology in the air we breath and talk.
the languages we have now are grown, have a past history
with a precious mythic past instructing and enchanting us
to this day, which we call culture. languages are the
souls of people who speak and listen to them. would
i want to give up my souls in english and spanish and
other languages for one of less value? no. a use
can be found for esperanto, but not at the expense of
the past and present glorys of old friends who have been
with us since the beginning of time.
my idea is to bind the languages together under their
mother language, put them back on the tit and by nursing
them with their original parent bring them into a second
being, refresh them from the corrupting process civilization has subjected them to, and channel
their meanings back to the riverbeds and the
headwater=Nauatl=4water which is their source.
letra can do this, as our alphabets and sounds come from the original ace of 4water. letters are more than just writing glyphs, they are the growing, changing life
of words. let’s stay with what we have: why trade
an orchard for one tree that won’t bear the weight
of what may or may not grow on it.
168 tzopilotl
February 28th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
…moonbeam, thank you for your concern. no, i am not crazy. the only way i know this is that i can write perfectly clear posts when i want to, but here i am presenting a system, letra, for breaking words back
to their original context. it may be that you have never thought of language in this way, i.e., through the morphing of old and new letters from one language to the next and the next, hey, it works, e.g.,
ma(n)za(na)=apple in spanish,=mazaxocotl(N)=deer cherry,=mazzard(E)=prunus avium,=mazurka(polish dance)=
maza(r)d/t/l(letra)=mazatl(N)=deer,
so, concentrate on the ma(n)za(na) because letra is at
work, don’t you think it interesting that apple in
spanish can be reduced to deer/deer cherry? that now
we know the polish dance is a deer dance, with one slide
and hop to the side, that spanish, english, polish
share these words and meanings with a few variations
and that they all, through the mechanical process of
letra, claim their root with the nauatl, mazatl=deer.
you know craziness is subjective. cultures draw a
circle and what’s outside is, well, crazy. i have been
out of american culture for 35yrs, but am getting a good
look at you, and frankly you’re a crazy subject to gaze
upon, high and low tech, no morals, out of control
governance, drugs for the poor, money for the elite and endless privilege, complete collapse of the money system
thru insane greed of both poor and rich, you make a business of war, in hock up to your eyeballs, no manufacturing, outsourcing everything, no internet content, the only crazy i see is that i am crazy to try
to help a people that won’t help themselves, odd and
venal religions, fooled everytime by a rigged political
system, but let me not go on except for one last sum,
the answer to the problem is to educate yourself in
language so your spirits can grow eloquent, so you can face your rulers without shame or fear and confront
them with their low actions, so you can say no to the
chain of idiot wars power is addicted to, so your
brains grow into the future instead of burnout in
the now, get a head! all i am doing is offering you
a means to do that, and am called names for it.
anybody ever read confederacy of dunces? the book
is one of despair written by a wise, young/old man,
who realizes even if great men/women were to come back into the world, the world would pay no attention.
i don’t consider myself great, perhaps in odor, but
what i am offering you with letra is your own greatness,
to come out of your cultural stupor and make words
and language count, and train yourselves in something
besides babble=b/papalotl(N)=butterfly.
169 Scratch
February 28th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
@tzopilotl (168):
But you’re NOT breaking words down to their original context, you are creating new contexts based on loose homophones in different unrelated languages.
170 Matt
February 28th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
@C (164):
Not any more so than South American native languages.
171 tzopilotl
February 28th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
…scratch, all languages are related, to Nauatl pie,
the sounds are related also, e.g., maza(N) is the original
sound for the word meat, mazurka, mazeltov, mazyes(berber),massagettae(alani), masa(sp), matso(originally
deer meatball).
tepetl=(s)tep=t/deep or johnny depp/depot/deborah/
tepee/tip/te(m)ple(first worshps were mts).
these don’t look like loose homophones to me, a bit
encyclopedic but i like to read dictionaries.
tleco=t/leg/c=t/l/regular=tl/trek/c=t/lecture/
t/lex=t/legal=t/legitimate, now, the letra morphs
are the basis of linguistics of a written language,
so note them down and put them to play in your head:
t/l/r…c/g/k…tl/tr…then you go about to the other
words, tepetl=tibet=thebes=heb(r)ew, so, putting them
down=p/b…e/i…tl/t/th/h…(r/inclusion)…now,
for the old context of, hebrew=h/th/tep/b(r)e ua/w=
tepeua(N)=tepe-/mountain/tepee(in deer culture)owner/ua.
logic=tloc(N)=tick t(l)oc (c)lockwork to me.
i guess the analogy would be i am trying to explain
the inner-working of word while you are looking at the dial for the time.
however, there are many ways words form and reform
going through tributary languages, e.g.,
tla-oppa-ilpilli(N)=twice/oppa tied=tla/da oppa/ffo
(a reversal, as language is 2)ilpilli/(d)il(the 2d
d repeats the lead letter)=daffodil/a(s)phodel.
the original tla-(N) may often be, tlatla=flame,
in this case, it identifies it as tlalli(N)=coming out of
tlan/land as flowers do, daffodil/asphodel are so named
because they have a floret within a floret/twice-tied.
…now here’s an original that has a lot of moss to be
cleared away before it goes to other langs:
tlachichinoaxiuitl(N)=plant that grows among rocks,
good for burning mouth and stomach and llagas(e.g.,
herpes zoster)=t/lachi/chi)n(oaxiuitl)=lachin=lichen
in english and Latin=leikhen(gk)=lichen(Fr)=liquen(sp=
lichene(Ital), now here is a chance ot annotate more
letra shifts: a/i…in the greek=(e) ch/kh/qu(sp).
when you have gathered all the c/k/s/g/q/z it means
you can interchange them when rooting word, e.g.,
ce tetl(N)=one stone=c/ke-t(e)tle=kettle. it is
letter play, no doooubt about, perhaps i’d be better off
making a game from it than bothering people with it
on a technical level they can’t follow, but the data
that comes out of breaking words is like nuclear fission(pun)and it keeps me searching for its meaning.
172 CreepyGirl
February 28th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
@Maureen, Romanov & L’Economa,
Wow. Love all the geeking-out!
Thanks most of you for the glittering,
jewels!
173 Scratch
February 28th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
@tzopilotl (171):
I agreed with everything you said up until “all languages are related,” and then I started strongly disagreeing.
174 Gov
February 28th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
I remember the historian in me being sad at the announcement that a number of aborigional languages were about to be lost. Then i realized that if the purpose of language is communication, the fewer languages we have the more we have in common. If we’re to have a common language, I will vote for English, although from my one visit to England, no one there seems to speak it anyway
175 chubbmeister
March 1st, 2010 at 2:41 am
@tzopilotl (150):
I’m actually not that often sitting down on my fat complacent ass, whining. I’ll tell you what, why don’t you help me (in general english, which isn’t my first language btw) explain what you are typing. Maybe with a short example, e.g. It’s just confusing to me…
176 Moonbeam
March 1st, 2010 at 8:07 am
@tzopilotl (171): @chubbmeister (175): If any one is interested in the history and proper usage of the English language try any of William Safire’s books. He was a political and social commentator who wrote an ongoing column for the New York Times. Every Sunday they would publish his column called, On Language He leaned towards the conservative side, but liberals and conservatives alike appreciated his writing on word origins and English grammar. He wrote about the actual origins of many words. I’m sure for many this sound like a crashing bore, but he made it fun to read. I’m not sure what tzopilotl is writing here, but I’m certain it is not actual historical information about the origins of English.
177 lunamy
March 1st, 2010 at 8:25 am
although those are only few examples, great list.
178 keyde
March 1st, 2010 at 8:27 am
I think you might have forgotten to mention the Armenian Genocide, after the turkish deathrow prisoners who were given a second chance and jobs as soldiers murdered 1.5 million Armenians following direct orders from the turkish governement.
Not only they had taken control of a huge part of Armenia but whoever said an Armenian word would quickly be murdered.
Many young children were murdered and hundreds have been taken to lebanon, were they were given new names and forced to adopt to islam and taught turkish, with severe punishments or death to whoever spoke Armenian.
Can you please involve this issue in your list? or make another list of the greatest genocides in the modern times?
179 tzopilotl
March 1st, 2010 at 8:33 am
…my apologies, chubb.
…scratch, why strongly? what are you hiding?
…g/cop/b/v=c/guv/b/p=g/cup/b/v, why in common,
who wants to be common?
…to answer, scratch: the first connexion of language
was during cave time, fire time, promethean time=
neander time. nouns formed last, so we deal with particles, as seen today in omotic(ethiopia) and
the zuang=cave living area(china, by vietnam), both
languages use nauatl particles:
omotic and related idioms(ethiopia)on the exit corridor
from and into afrika, word sample:
1.nakus(dizi/maji)=man/first born/ son=nacatl(N)=flesh=
nachat(Yiddish)=snaka(OE)/snake(E).
2.ashuwa(wolamo)=flesh/meat/goat=asha(gofa)=caxaua(N)=
render,=cash(E)=c(r)assus(Lat)=c/g(r)asa(sp)=grease(E).
3.balli(galila)=horn,=palli(N)=p/ba(r)ley(E)=palo(sp)=
stick.
4.bakko/bakke(mocha)=cock/hen,=pachoa(N)=cover,=
tlapachoa in totolin(N)=hen incubates.
5.hank(omotic)=anka(ometo)=vulture,=h/th/t/tla(n)ka(N)=
body, as in raccoon=r/l/tlac/oon(letra)=tlaca(N).
find the entire article on tzopilotl wordpress for
july 2009.
ok, now proto-zuang-tai, found in the sept. 2009
section: p-z-tai likes omotic:
1.gizzard=tai(p-z-tai)=t/tlaini(N)=earth drinker/worker,
=tl/drain(E)/t/l/rain(E).
2.full/fill=tem(p-z-t)=tem(siamese)=temi(N)=fill,=
time(E)=t/th/he(r)m/i(letra/E prefix)=Hermes(gk/god/messenger)…source of omotic/zhuang is:
starling.rinet.ru/main database.
the world was connected early by crossings=panoa(N)=
spanish(gens)=panuco(old name for veracruz area), point
of entry for quetzalcoatl’s expedition(3309bc) and the
second coming of quetz., the mayan(c.2k/1.5bc), who arrived from the gulf of ormuz, not to mention the
solutrean crossing over the north atlantic, 22k bc,
in full gravettian mammoth hunting period, which gave
the amerindian on the east coast its 5th blood group,
the european, laid the foundation for all amerindian
languages, e.g., tlacotli(N)=slave,=tl/t/dakota=
t/la(s)co(u)t/li(letra), hey,=lascoutx(basque), that’s
my fountain name!
=(tla)c/g(r)od(tl)i(letra)=grodi(polish)=(slave unit
used to build first)towns/settlements in poland.
so that’s it, appears to work, it’s like beadwork/
chaquira(sp): word are the holed beads and common meaning
is the string, a good definition for tloc/logic.
180 RedMan
March 1st, 2010 at 9:30 am
@160: You saying the loss of Native American languages was brought on by themselves is like saying the Jews volunteered to go into concentration camps. Get a real history book (not the government approved shit) and learn something.
181 Scratch
March 1st, 2010 at 9:59 am
@tzopilotl (179):
I’m not hiding anything, I just disagree strongly that all languages are related because it’s flat out wrong. You keep pointing out non-existent connections between words that are in entirely different language families i.e. unrelated.
If it amuses you, have fun, but it’s just incoherent clutter to me.
182 chubbmeister
March 1st, 2010 at 2:30 pm
@Moonbeam (176):
thanks, moonbeam…
183 chubbmeister
March 1st, 2010 at 2:40 pm
@tzopilotl (179):
nimitzittaz, tzopilotl, nipilli tipilli
184 tzopilotl
March 1st, 2010 at 2:57 pm
…tonamitl(N)=sunbeam(sunspear), ettuni(mazaua)=
etl tonatiuh(N)=sunbean=the mexican tuna that grows on
the nopal=nopalli(N)=my/no-pal/paint, ah,
…176,metzmitl(N)=metztli mitl(N)=moonbeam, safire was great, i sent him 2 e-mails, didn’t know he was in hospice, before he died, sent him the teteo teotl’s,
in fact, and the next week he was dead, but his last
response, began: daisy, daisy, send me your answer
do…which was touching, as the last part of
the song goes(and which he didn’t send): i’m half-crazy,
all for the love of you. he understood what i was
sending him, and i like to think i got his blessing,
crazy as that sounds. ave, wordsmith, i take up the hammer for all fallen angels.
…181,if genetics has been with us since our inception
as species, why not language which is tloc/logic/location, and given the promethean legends which are all true,
before that? i am not pointing out non-existent relation-
ships, when you sort out your own clutter, take another
look. if cave level people have nauatl, which words show
they did, and we go back to that time, why doesn’t our one
language become the fountain for all the others.
answer: it has become all other languages. my references
to other languages are done on the basis of meaning and
form, you can call it coincidence but there sure are a
lot of them all over the globe and in every tributary
tongue. you’re not making sense, just giving a flat out
veto. omotic and proto-zuang-tai from starling.rinet
data base.
185 Scratch
March 1st, 2010 at 4:01 pm
@tzopilotl (184):
http://www.zompist.com/lang1.shtml#7
Pay particular attention to #6, #10, #22, #24
You might also find this site useful:
http://www.etymonline.com/
186 nuriko
March 1st, 2010 at 5:08 pm
interesting list…
187 tzopilotl
March 1st, 2010 at 5:51 pm
@chubbmeister (183):
…you’re catching on chubbs, letra über alles,
see if you can find Vibes, 1988, directed by ken kwapis,
starring cyndi lauper, jeff goldblum, peter falk.
it’s one of the unheralded classics of filmdom.
the scene with cyndi at the top of the pyramid
suddenly going into babblefish would amuse you.
now let me remark on nimitz=nemyets(russ)=neighbors
(the germans),=nemiliztli(N)=good conduct,=nemesis(gk),
nimitz was an american admiral who was the nemesis of
japn in the pacific war. itta/z(N)=see,=(m)ir/ltta(letra)=mirar(sp)=mirror(E), so, nimitzittaz=the spitting image
(mirror)of a german(a compliment so don’t get huffy).
nipilli tipilli=nepilli(N)=nepilolli(N)=hung punished
child=pilli(N), tepilli(N)=the vulva, ah, child punished
in the womb. there’s no escaping letra, meister. take
radar, an acronym, apply letra=r/l/tla d/t/tla/r=
tlatla(N)=flame, or, lazer=t/laz/er(letra)=throw down,
or tazer=t/tlaz/er(letra)=tlaza(N). whatever gods may
be have offered us their creation, why not use it for
a better understanding of blue planet and ourselves?
we live in the envelope of words as surely as earth
lives in air, there’s no escaping ourselves, we can
only say yes, if we crown ourselves we wear satan’s
jewelled crown. well, off to listen to emmy lou. tks.
188 tzopilotl
March 1st, 2010 at 7:41 pm
@Scratch (185): thank you,
my eye was caught by, slowly and highly systematic ways,
well, that is the hope. you know, i am using the 5k bc
version of nauatl dated to the quetzal expedition of 3309bc and from the evidence, with the exception of
the noun endings, verb prefixes, increasing agglutination, there has been no sound value change since we were cavers, if omotic and zhuang are examples.
writing seems to be the systematic miracle, that at once
preserved nauatl and forced it to diverge, but leaving us
an alphabet trail we can run back and forth on,
a systemic time machine!
now it’s just a question of bringing out the underlying blue of nauatl/4water the way a restorer
treats his canvas, changing nothing, but uncovering what
is already there to the light once again.
189 The_Snowdog
March 1st, 2010 at 8:57 pm
all of these languages…
they are all greek to me
190 Paul Cymro
March 2nd, 2010 at 1:29 am
Welsh is alive and well and is growing steadily. It is an official language in Wales and all public documents must be be bilingual Welsh/English. About a quarter of the population 700,000 out of 3 mill speak Welsh and it has grown in every National Census since yje mid 20th Century. You’ll hear it most in North and West Wales whee it is the first language for the majority.
191 Scratch
March 2nd, 2010 at 7:49 am
@tzopilotl (188):
Alright, continue your quest.
192 tzopilotl
March 2nd, 2010 at 11:47 am
@Scratch (191):
tks. i couldn’t stop now if i tried. @Paul Cymro (190):
check out, walcheren on google, where walch=ualchiua(N)=
come to do/chiua(N)=wales gets its name. btw, lol(W)=
nonsense.
193 tzopilotl
March 2nd, 2010 at 11:54 am
@The_Snowdog (189):
precisely my point, sneg(russ)=snow=sneg(OE)=snail(E)=
ncueolololiztli(N)=go about with skirts rolled up(to
keep them out of the snow, or pants), the conjunction
of meaning(cue=skirt rolled up)at root which gave birth
(to twins)to snow and snail in rus&english, call it
what you like it all one language everywhere. good one.
194 nicoleredz3
March 13th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
@Scratch (107):
Om nom nom nom… Just kidding! Thanks for the info! Yum…
195 lib
April 15th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Alpine and padanian languages in what’s now Italy.
196 Sluiq
April 17th, 2010 at 1:39 am
I’m surprised no one has refuted these one world language people with things like the concepts Orwell warned in Politics in the English Language.
As one poster said, the purpose is to communicate.
The purpose is not just to have alternate words. The purpose of different languages is that different cultures and concepts grow out of them.
If you remove them, all you’re left with is a bunch of people who is still not communicating with the same language.
Alot of the joke memes and internet slang may seem minor but they just as change the concepts and culture of the English language speaking community.
It’s why even if a non-native speaker learns English to speak well to the point that they get praised, unless they start living with the actual culture, they still seem off enough that native speakers know they’re not from America or Britain. Sure, a huge issue is the accent but even if you nail that down you’ll discover some grammatical weirdness between the two speakers and the communication is once again lost or has to be re-established.
Even as simple as food products, it’s not always communicable.
Try telling an English speaking Filipino that you want steamed rice cakes instead of puto and see if they get you. Reverse this and make the words puto universal and see if they think steamed rice cake makes more sense.
Imagine when you’re throwing important social concepts then especially dealing against conventional wisdom. Things like the Bible can’t even be quite figured out even if there’s several versions of English texts, can you imagine if an unknown culture who has an important social concept to impart to the world at large gets buried or misrepresented because a bunch of new generation people just wants to conveniently drop the old because they were mistakenly raised in how much impact language actually has to forming beliefs, culture and attitudes.
It wasn’t so long that a bunch of people got fooled by the words “Weapons of Mass Destruction” and now you guys think it’s easier to communicate with a universal language?!