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10 People Who Give Christianity a Bad Name

Christianity has been around for two thousand years and, for the most part, it has preached a good message by which to live. But unfortunately, as with all organized bodies, many people claiming to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ have shown themselves to behave quite opposite to the message it espouses. This list looks at 10 of the worst.


Sun Myung Moon

Moon Senate Crownedmessiah

He is the founder of the Unification Church, which has become worldwide since its origin in 1954. Moon was born in 1920, and has set himself up at the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. A lot of people go around saying, “I’m Jesus,” but they are usually dismissed as insane or seeking attention.

Moon has convinced anywhere from several hundred thousand to one million people to join his church and consider him “Jesus reincarnated.” Moon is vehemently opposed to homosexuality, and yet he makes the common mistake of hating them, spewing rage at them, instead of trying of forgiving and trying to convert them from the sin. Such hateful opposition does nothing but galvanize the offended party to continue as it is. Christians must be in the business of saving souls, not assisting their damnation.

He is extremely anti-Semitic, and his entire church with him, championing the Holocaust as divine vengeance against the Jews, because they did not support Jesus, and this brought about his murder by the Roman government.

And none of that mentions Moon’s extraordinarily lavish lifestyle. Modern church founders typically make a lot of money founding churches. Jesus didn’t make one cent. Moon has been known to spend $2,000 a day, and give his children as much as $50,000 monthly allowances. His “True Family’s” home is a huge mansion on 18 acres in Irvington, NY, with 12 bedrooms, a dining room replete with pond and waterfall, 7 bathrooms, a bowling alley, and that’s not counting the mansions in Korea, England, Scotland, Germany, thoroughbred horses for the kids, private tutors, Ferraris, motorcycles, and blank checks to take on their vacations, first-class of course.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

The funniest part is that he was convicted of tax fraud and served 18 months in prison. Remember the fish Jesus told Peter to catch? It had two coins in its mouth, one for each of them, to pay the tax? “Render therefore unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and unto God what is God’s.” Even Jesus paid taxes.


David Koresh

1120330742 1726789850 Biography-Final-24-David-Koresh-Sf

Vernon Wayne Howell was a handsome, charismatic Texan, considered so poor a student in elementary and middle school that he was enrolled in special ed classes. He memorized the New Testament by 11, and impregnated a 15 year old when he was 19. He must have forgotten a few verses.

By 1983, after being kicked out of a 7th Day Adventist Church for fooling around with the pastor’s daughter, he began calling himself a prophet. He was able to recruit followers because of his good looks and magnetic personality, eventually proclaiming himself Jesus Christ, “the Son of God, the Lamb who could open the seven seals.” He taught that monogamy was the only proper relationship, but that polygamy was perfectly fine for him, and him alone, and quickly had sex with Karen Doyle, called her his second wife, after his first died, and proceeded to have sex with as many as 140 different women.

Karen Doyle did not get pregnant, probably because she was 14 years old, so he slept with Michele Jones, 12 years old. By proclaiming this God’s will, he was able to have sex with any woman or girl whenever he liked. He tried to gun down George Roden, who was also a high ranking member of Koresh’s sect, and escaped conviction by mistrial.

By the time of the Waco Siege, he had, by his own admission, fathered at least 12 children, some by girls as young as 12. And the followers just kept coming. To be honest, the FBI seriously botched the siege, and used unnecessary force, but Koresh was the primary culprit of his followers’ deaths, 82 of them, by fire. Which side started the fire is hotly disputed and will never be known, but Koresh told his followers, “Don’t move until you see God.”

They didn’t see God before they burned alive, Koresh with them.


Pat Robertson


He’s worse than the previous two because he doesn’t even know how to lie convincingly. He swears that “the spirit of God comes mightily upon [him]” and enables him to leg press 2,000 pounds, though he is 79 years old. This claim has been thoroughly debunked by weightlifting experts, and yet he persists in claiming and not proving it.

He has claimed to be able to deflect hurricanes by praying to God, and stated that Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment for abortion throughout America (not for Mardi Gras, which would be a little more understandable), thus showing that he did not pray for Katrina’s deflection. He believes that 9/11 and Katrina might be divinely connected.

Most recently, he denounced Haiti after the January 12, 2010 earthquake, stating that Haiti deserved what it was getting because it swore a pact with the Devil back in 1791, in order to drive out the French. Whether that pact was sworn or not, his comments were obviously intended to inflame and hurt, and they did so. How Christian of him. He was roundly denounced by most Christian denominations, and still refuses to retract what he said.

He predicted Doomsday in 1982. Ronald Reagan came close, I guess. He predicted a Pacific Northwestern tsunami in 2006, then a terrorist attack on American soil sometime in 2007. He defended this last failure by stating, “All I can think is that somehow the people of God prayed and God, in his mercy, spared us.” He has made many other predictions, none of which has come true.

He has many times called for the destruction of Islam and all its followers, not for their conversion to Christianity. he calls Islam “satanic.” He calls Hinduism “demonic.” He even claims some Protestant Christian denominations as harboring the spirit of the Antichrist. He has made quite a few anti-Semitic remarks, notably about Ariel Sharon, the former PM of Israel, whose stroke and vegetative state Robertson calls “an act of God.”


Matthew Hale


Hale is currently serving 40 years in prison for attempting to solicit the murder of Judge Joan Lefkow. Not a very model preacher. But actually, he calls himself the Pontifex Maximus of the Creativity Movement, which is just another offshoot from the Ku Klux Klan. The church is for whites only, and it has its own bible, in which one finds passages such as, “You have no alibi, no other way out, white man! Fight or die!”

His church calls for a worldwide, racial holy war, to exterminate the Jews and all black people, in order to establish “a white world.” His reasoning: God is white; God created the Jews and black people to test the faith and resolve of white people; thus, killing a Jew or black person is not a sin. After one of his followers, Benjamin N. Smith, committed a deadly shooting spree, targeting only minorities, Hale “defended” his actions on TV by saying, “We do urge hatred. If you love something, you must hate that which threatens it.” He is on audio tape laughing about the shootings and imitating the sounds of gunfire.


Michael Bray


Bray is not an ordained or college-educated minister, but he does preach a lot about abortion. He served 46 months of a 10 year sentence for conspiring to bomb 10 abortion clinics in Maryland, Virginia, and Washington D. C. He and his wife stand firmly on the Bible as the inerrant Word of God, and that because it preaches so firmly against homosexuality and adultery, then upon being convicted of either in a court of law, the guilty party should be put to death. Even though American courts of law have no problem with either. They might be sins, but they aren’t felonies.

Bray didn’t exactly help the Christian cause of conversion by allowing Richard Dawkins, the most famous atheist in the world, to interview him for a show called “The Root of All Evil.” Bray was thoroughly outmatched, of course, and made Christianity look like…well, the root of all evil.

He is now out of prison and living in Wilmington, Ohio, officially labeled as a terrorist.


Paul Jennings Hill


Hill was a trained and ordained minister of the Presbyterian Church, but the church excommunicated him in 1993 for taking such a militant stand against abortion, and for becoming a member of the Army of God, a Christian terrorist, anti-abortion organization.

This ordained minister finally let his anger get the best of him when he traveled to Pensacola, Florida on July 29, 1994, to an abortion clinic, and murdered one of the doctors, and his bodyguard, point-blank with shotgun blasts. He wounded the bodyguard’s wife. Then he calmly put down the shotgun in the grass and sat and waited for the police.

He was executed. The law does not permit vigilante justice. And come to think of it, “Love thine enemies,” seems a fair argument against it also.


Marshall Herff Applewhite, Jr.

1463 Heavens Gate 468

And if you thought the last several entries were weirdos, Applewhite has gone down in history as a true psychopath. Born May 17, 1931, he proclaimed himself a prophet in 1972, and then, as they all seem to do, proclaimed himself Jesus Christ reincarnated. He was not as handsome as #9, but he wasn’t exactly ugly, either, was married, and seemed for all the world to be “blameless and upright before God.”

Followers flocked to his forceful charisma, when he told them that UFOs were coming to take them away to Heaven. When the UFOs didn’t show, the followers left, but he kept preaching to various friends and their acquaintances, and by 1975 acquired a following of 93 men, women and children.

He eventually recruited people from all 50 states, and settled in Rancho Santa Fe, California. His wife died of cancer in 1985, and sometime between then and 1997, he had a nurse surgically castrate him, for purification. He called his church “Heaven’s Gate.” His congregation worshiped him fervently.

On March 19, 1997, as the comet Hale-Bopp was passing Earth, Applewhite recorded himself preaching to his congregation that suicide “was the only way to evacuate this earth.” His congregation did not believe in suicide, but was so enamored with him, that 39 members took his word for it, and on March 24, 25, and 26, they killed themselves with mixtures of phenobarbitol and applesauce, followed by vodka. They also put plastic bags over their heads to be sure of asphyxiating, in case the poison didn’t work.

Applewhite’s idea was to die so his spirit would ascend to the UFO following Hale-Bopp, which would then take him and his followers to another plane, both physical and spiritual.


Jim Jones

2771 Final-Report-Jonestown-1 04700300

But that’s nothing compared to the 909 people, 276 of them children, who became enamored with the handsome charismatic founder of the Peoples Temple. James Warren Jones started out Methodist, and seemed to have fine intentions, endeavoring to bring about civil right for blacks and integrate American society. Somewhere along the line, he went patently insane. He was an aggressive narcissist, just as entries 1, 4, 7, 8, 9, and 10. He never claimed to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, and the only reason he founded the Peoples Temple was for the money he could make via his congregation.

The strangest part is that his followers were not hopeless runaways or uneducated and uninformed. They were predominantly members of other Christian denominations, Methodism, Presbyterianism, Disciples of Christ, etc. They were taken in by his good looks and charm, and his ability to lead and convince.

n 1974, the Temple went to Guyana, with only 50 members. But Jones promised others back in the States a tropical paradise, and they flocked by the hundreds to “Jonestown.” Because he had always been an outspoken communist sympathizer, and intended Jonestown to be a socialist save haven, he drew the attention of the U. S. Government.

On November 17, 1978, investigating claims of abuse within the Temple, California congressman Leo Ryan went to Jonestown, and about 15 members wanted to leave with him. They attempted to depart via a nearby airstrip, and were fired upon by Temple security guards. Ryan was killed, along with four others, one a Temple member.

When the shooters returned to Jonestown, Jones and accomplices were preparing a mass suicide by poisoning: Flavor Aid loaded with cyanide, phenergan, Valium and chloral hydrate.

There are graphic pictures of the dead lying en masse outside the pavilion, 909 of them. The children were probably not told that the drink was poisoned.

Jones shot himself in the head.


Charles Coughlin


Father Charles Edward Coughlin was a priest who used the radio to acquire a large audience for his political and religious propaganda. He was born in 1891, and one of the first to use modern technology to mass communicate for such a purpose.

He started out innocently enough, using radio to decry the KKK for burning crosses on his church grounds, but ten years later, in 1936, he started praising and defending both Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini for their politics, and spewing some of the most despicable virulence against Jews to which the world had borne witness up to that point.

He blamed the Great Depression on “an international conspiracy of Jewish bankers,” then blamed Communism, the Russian 1917 Revolution, and Marxist atheism on “global Jewry, in its attempt to lead people astray from the perfection of Lord Jesus.”

He plagiarized a speech by Goebbels, then delivered it himself in a rally in the Bronx, September 13, 1935, giving the “Hitler salute.” And this is what he said. This is what Father Charles E. Coughlin, SJ. said, “When we get through with the Jews in America, they’ll think the treatment they received in Germany was nothing.”

He acquired thousands of followers, who chanted things like, “Wait until Hitler gets over here!” Coughlin was linked with a group that attempted to overthrow the U. S. Government, after which he was abandoned by most. He still refused to change his politics, and fought a series of radio duels with Unitarian Walton Cole, who wanted the Catholic Church to put an end to Coughlin’s vitriol.

F. D. Roosevelt himself was the man who shut Coughlin up for good, when the latter started railing against the New Deal. The courts ruled that the 1st Amendment did not apply to radio, and Coughlin’s license was revoked. This forced him to pay for his own air time, which he could not do for long.

On May 1, 1942, the Archbishop of Detroit, Most Rev. Edward Mooney, ordered Coughlin to stop his political activities and confine himself to his duties as a parish priest, warning that he would be defrocked if he refused. Coughlin complied and remained the pastor of the Shrine of the Little Flower until retiring in 1966. He died in 1979, at 88 years old, still publishing inflammatory articles against Judaism and Communism.


Fred Phelps, Sr.

Fred Phelps

He has 13 children, 4 of whom have disowned him and their other 9 siblings. Those 4 children, two men and two women, have denounced the man himself as “a vitrolic, megalomaniacal sadistic psychopath.” I can’t phrase it better than that, and yet, it still does not fully capture the personality of this man. Ordinarily, the lister should remain aloof from the list, but in this case, except for his congregation, which officially numbers 71, 60 of whom are Phelps’s relatives, it is highly doubtful if anyone else on the planet agrees with, or even slightly supports, Phelps’s savage, barbaric perversion of Christianity and its founder. So I don’t feel quite so bad about being biased.

His “ministry” at the Westboro Baptist Church, which he founded, in Topeka, Kansas, is based almost entirely on anti-homosexuality, which is one of the easiest, if not the easiest, sin to denounce by means of quoting the Bible. God condemns homosexuality at least twice, in Leviticus, and from this principle, Phelps feels he can condemn the entire world, but especially the United States of America, the latter which he has described as a liberal hellhole that supports homosexuality. That’s a very, VERY cleaned-up paraphrase of his graphic, disgustingly profane diction.

Whereas, there are plenty of verses to quote against hatred, “Love thine enemies” just one of them, as quoted above. Phelps and his worshipers (since they certainly don’t worship Jesus) petulantly ignore these verses and enjoy themselves by hating others. It is a physical and emotional release, a pleasure just as sensual as that garnered by loving others.

He may never have begun a sentence with “God loves…” For him, sermons ought to begin with “God hates…” Most of the time that blank is filled in with homosexual slurs.

He extrapolates God’s hatred for gays to ridiculous lengths, denouncing the entire world as imminently doomed to Hell, except for…you guessed it: him and his precious few followers.

His two estranged sons have described him as “a malignant narcissist, with the same short, viciously intemperate disposition as a serial killer toward his victims.” The only reason he has not killed anyone is not because he views it as a sin, but because it would give the rest of the world more universal ground on which to stand against him. He prefers to set himself up as God on Earth, perfect and blamelessly instigatory.

His oldest daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, has defended their actions as righteous with every word, according to the Bible, and forcing “the sinful American nation to open its mouth and condemn itself.”

He and his congregation picket at least 6 churches and political establishments around their hometown everyday, with signs that read, “God Hates F_gs,” “Thank God for Dead American Soldiers,” “America is Going to Hell,” etc. They do this for the sole purpose of offending and causing wanton emotional distress. They picket the funerals of dead soldiers, screaming at the families, even while they grieve at the gravesides, that the soldier has gone to Hell and so will they. Then they laugh. They have been sued at least once, successfully, but they successfully appealed this suit and paid nothing.

Phelps is the man responsible for sending these brainwashed fools, who revel in their own malice, across the country. He has condemned every single President, from the time he was old enough to care, as the Antichrist. He has even called President Obama “a n____r” on several occasions.

Listverse Staff

Listverse is a place for explorers. Together we seek out the most fascinating and rare gems of human knowledge. Three or more fact-packed lists daily.

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  • Good list,now I want similar lists for Islam, Hinduism, Judaism etc etc…coz because of some idiots, other people have to listen to slanderous stuff about their religion.

    • msk

      … nevermind.

    • Kristen

      Definitely. Islam has it the worst by far, with all sorts of racial profiling due to Muslim extremist groups.

      • John Waller

        Judaism would be hard though…

      • HateRacist

        First study Islam, then make any commet moron. They bring us light when we are in dark age in europe. your ancestors were peasants somewhere in europe. you are also a racist.

        • Ahmedinejad


        • kllyjc334

          Anyone who denies Christ is doom….

        • ProbablySocrates

          Your comment gave me cancer.

    • guyinasuit

      I dare you to try and do one for neo-paganism.

      • TheDayBurzumKilledMayhem


    • Nadhira

      There’s already a list of people who give Islam a bad name.

  • James

    Jim Jones was a right mental.

    • d’ep

      How does Jim Jones get to be on both the Christianity list AND the atheist list? That doesn’t seem right.

  • Parker

    The anti-homosexuality bias in this list is glaring. 'God' doesn't condemn homosexuality. The Bible is a book written by people who claim to have known what God wants/doesn't want and the list of forbidden things ridiculous by today's standards is long. There's plenty of people who have managed to believe in a God that doesn't condemn people who love someone of the same sex or hide anti-gay prejudice behind a 'hate the sin' motto.

    • Alissa

      I agree.

      You said: "Moon is vehemently opposed to homosexuality, and yet he makes the common mistake of hating them, spewing rage at them, instead of trying of forgiving and trying to convert them from the sin." Here is some news for you: calling homosexuality a "sin" and trying to convert those who engage in homosexual practices is just as bad, if not worse, than outright and violent homophobia. You act under the pretense that you're a loving person who just wants to help, but you're not loving, you're officious, and your sentiment drives many of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to suicide.

      • Name

        Love the sinner, hate the sin…Christians aren’t supposed to condemn people for being homosexual, but they are to love that person and hope they can convince that person to change their sinful ways.

        • GW

          What sinful ways?

          • Katie

            Amen! <3

        • Link

          “Love the sinner hate the sin.” is no where in the Bible. check this site for an answer to that statement. that quote is from Ghandi actually

        • Link

          “Love the sinner hate the sin.” is no where in the Bible. check this site for an answer to that statement. that quote is from Ghandi actually

    • so totally agree with Parkers’ comment, the bias in this list ruined it for me, definite pot calling kettle moments.

    • m

      read leviticus. Im no homophobe and im no christian, but the levitical laws are REALLY homophobic, and wierd. They have rules for everything, like if a woman sleeps with a horse i think she’s supposed to get torn in half or something. Its a messed up chapter.

  • Dan

    Good list. Kent Hovind should be on this as well for smearing crap on the theory of evolution and distorting science.

    • Rlil

      Evolution is such a joke, give it up. I’m sure the following comments will be about “real science” and how evolution is a “fact”. Evolution is a religion, there’s a fact for you. Is Kent Hovind a nut? I find that he is a bit wacky but he is right about one thing, evolution is ridiculous. We continue to waste all of our resources following false science, evolution, and and building up crazy theories to support said crazy theory. Let me ask you, if everything evolved and the first element to form after the “big bang” was hydrogen, how did we get all of the following elements? It couldn’t have been “the fusion of stars” because those stars would be made of elements that do not exist yet, besides you can’t even fuse past iron. Second question, more baffling in my opinion, is where did the laws that allowed an explosion at all even come from? As in the laws of thermodynamics or even gravity? How do natural laws evolve? We are supposed to believe that a little dot of matter exploded into everything? Really? How ridiculous and desperate people become when they fear accountability. When I say, “God created the universe”, the atheist asks, “Where did God com from?” To that I I’m left asking why they are worried about the origin of God if they can’t even account for the original matter that allegedly exploded? There is a silent Majority that does not believe this evolution garbage. You can say it as long as you want or scream it at the top of your lungs but we simply won’t buy into the lie.

  • Parker

    @Davern My favorite thing that God apparently hates is menstruation. The Bible is full of 'God' demanding people stay away from women on their periods and forbids menstruating women to enter religious buildings. Poor guy was really squeamish!

    • I think you'll find that the Bible's prohibitions against menstruation are found only in the Old Testament's ritual purity laws, which as I'm sure you know are explicitly negated in the New Testament.

      In other words, if you have a problem with the stance of the "Bible" (i.e. the Old Testament) on menstruation, take it up with the Jews rather than the Christians.

      • GAzrich

        Cherry picking the old testament again

        • anon

          Most good Biblical scholars will rule out all of the Leviticus rules unequivocally (except where there is overlap with other passages, of course), many not even because they believe Jesus negated them. In short it was a code designed to prevent people from catching illness or offending the locals. But they can probably give you a better explanation than I ever could so I’d just Google “holiness code Leviticus”.

      • Words

        You’re right. On the otherhand, the condemnation of homosexuality is in both the Old and New Testaments.

        • l

          can you tell me where exactly in the New Testaments it says anything at all about homo*****uality

          • TheAdvokit

            Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
            Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

            1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
            1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
            1Ti 1:11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

            1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
            1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

  • Me

    @Parker (12):

    I'm not religious but I agree with you that if the bible came from God it was indeed interpreted and changed by the men who wrote it. I'm pretty sure God hates homosexuals about as much as he hates people eating meat on a Friday or any of the other strange punishable offences in the bible.

    • Ally

      I don’t think so, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah was about 5 cities being destroyed because human kind was sexually deviated. not any other sin in the bible has brought this kind of fate on humankind

      • Ralph

        There is a good argument that the “…send them out that we may know them…” in the Sodom and Gomorrah is not “… send them out cause we want to probe their nether regions…” but “… send them out so we can see if they are foreigners cause we kill foreigners.”

        Until the connotation of “…we may know them…” became a carnal reference, the sin involved was lacking hospitality. When someone was accepted into the home of a Son of Abraham (Muslim, Jewish, and by extension Christian), they were guests to be protected from the common dangers of the world. This survives in the Catholic tradition of Sanctuary.

        Pay attention to the words. Suspect the translations, or more accurately, the ones doing the translation and their agenda.

  • While I don't agree on the order of the list, I enjoyed it. As a devoted Christian, I'm horribly offended by these people. Not all of us are close minded idiots who can't get our heads out of our asses long enough to actually read the Bible. Most of us are normal, the crazies are loud ones sadly.

    Speaking of reading the Bible, the Bible doesn't truly condemn sexuality. It's only condemned in Leviticus, but in the New Testament, Christ made all clean and only the 10 Commandments are really applicable from the Old Testament. Followers of Christ follow his new laws. Then you can state the condemnate of homosexuality in the New Testament, but if you look at much older copies of the Bible, not once is the word "homosexual" or any variation of it mentioned. Take a look at the ancient Greek, it actually more closely translates to "prostitute". Don't bring up Sodom and Gomorrah! There's plenty of Biblical scholars challenging the original findings and stating they were destroyed for greed, not homosexuality.

    I was raised by pastors and exorcists, I learn things most don't get the chance to. I won't get into the whole abortion thing. It was a subject the Bible didn't really touch so it's open into interpretation. Kinda like incest. Technically, incest is only condemned in Leviticus if I remember correctly. Again, no longer applicable. While I personally find it gross and wrong, it technically isn't in a moral view (just long-term medical). Immoral sex is condemned in the New Testament though. Oh God getting sleepy, must finish. Anyway, I think that's pretty open to interpretation too. I can't tell, that verse was too hard to read at this hour.

    Anyway, interpret my crap however you want. I'd provide verses, but I can't read them! Too tired! I'll provide those later in the forums, this is just a summary of endless research. If you wish to argue with me, then please not here. Comments isn't the place to debate. Um…nite nite.

    • TheAdvokit

      Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
      Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

      Do tell us, how does this passage translate from the greek? I don’t see anything about prostitutes in the originally format.

      This might not be the place for debate but other readers need to see how ridiculous your claims are. Abortion and Incest open to interpretation? I won’t even bother with this right now. The fact is, homosexuality is condemned. No matter what you want the Bible to say, it still says it’s a sin. 1 + 1 cannot sometimes equal three or four. It will always be 2, just like homosexuality will always be a sin.

  • Cernunnos

    you forgot Moses, ignorant creationists in general and… "god". no-one worse than that asshole.

    • rlil


  • khatzeye

    @astraya (57): There arent any ya are suppose to love not hate but yet u loathe gay people. a human is a human no1 should hate but ya are the 1st one too, i bet ur gonna contradict that n sum way… very christiany of u

    • TheAdvokit

      You claim no one should hate…What do you base this moral decision on? If there is no God, then there is no right or wrong. Therefore anyone could hate whoever they wanted and it would be perfectly acceptable.

      While this is merely an attack on your logic I would like to say I’m sorry for what happened to you. I disagree with your decision to bathe every Christian in the same light as your foster mother however. Some men beat their wives. Does that mean all men beat their wives?

      It sounds like you are full of hate yourself.

  • Si Si

    I will be the first to say this is amazing.

  • nepratini

    Good list. Very interesting.

  • T

    Flamehorse, this is a great list. I have to agree about these wackos bringing shame to true Christianity.

  • enigmasterpiece

    we might as well include pastors, priests, preachers who impose their followers to vote for the person that they “annointed” which would mean separation from their church for anyone who disobeys. wtf! whatever happened to God-given free will

  • Vas

    These people don’t just give Christianity a bad name,
    they give the entire human race a bad name.

  • dalinean

    You could expand this list easily.
    How about; ‘Ten most crazy creationists’

    start with Kent Hovind

    or perhaps more scientifically;
    “top ten creation myths”

    Thanks jfrater, I know I should submit these myself, sheer lasieness.

  • Laura

    Kind of written with vague details and bias at times, but I don’t care because these people really were awful. Everyone loves a good psychopath story.

  • loopyallie

    Great list… Amazing how people can create power over people through religion, the human race are really naive when it comes to being wrapped up in a movement.

  • 63jax

    Loool, great list although some of them were right about fighting against fags and blaming of the communism for the spreading of atheism. There are many freaks in this world, but i am happy that most of them are in USA, proud country…

  • Mrs. Antichrist

    I dislike Fred Phelps as much as the next person, but I don’t think he belongs in the number one spot, as he has never killed anyone — unlike some of the other men on the list.

  • Davern

    Although I don’t believe in God I also don’t believe the bible condemns homosexuality as explicitly as this article would suggest. Conception was certainly not well understood at the time of writing of the bible. The general view was that the woman just carried the seed of the man. And I don’t believe they understood that the average man carries 50-150 million sperm per millilitre. God killed Onan for wasting seed. Obviously all homosexual activities would be seen as wasting seed and therefore also punishable by death.

  • Andres

    Watch how now people are not going to complain about the list being “too American” They will just point out the fact that the vast majority of these people are American.

    Great list.

  • Andres

    My comment is awaiting moderation? That might be the single greatest thing I have seen in a while! And I’m not even being ironic. The fact that comments are now being moderated makes me a really happy man. Please, by all means, delete my comment–not only is it inflammatory, it only makes sense if comments of a certain type are posted, which I guess won’t happen since there’s moderation now. Yay!

  • Parker

    @Davern Exactly, how many other ‘words of God’ do you think the author follows that was written in an ancient time when knowledge was limited compared to modern times? Yet FlameHorse took several opportunities to imply that’s almost as if they just wrote this list to preach about lovingly hating the gays.

  • gav

    “I would follow these men to the depths of hell…”

    .. for they cannot lead anyone anyplace else.

    God’s cool but religion is for suckers.

  • simon

    What about all of the Catholic preists who have molested children?

  • muzli

    All the TV evangelists that pretend to heal people. That is very cruel cos it gives people false hopes.

    • mike

      they forget that jesus did not come to heal but to preach the goodnews of the kingdom then give his life so that we can be forgiven for our sins and then the new kingdom will bring an end to all suffering and injustice soon to come matthew24:12 and daniel 2:44

  • Davern

    @Parker Didn’t realise you had beaten me to it and said it better. But too right about that list of things ridiculous by today’s standards. Such as not working on the Sabbath and stoning disobedient children.

  • Nab

    Right, and all that is done in the dark ages; the witch hunts and crusades and all the torturing done in the name of god is all considered ‘preaching a good message’…. These men are cuddly toddlers compared to what the church has done of the last two thousand years.

  • Iain

    There’s a great little music video out there of Rev Phelps grandaughter doing an ‘amended’ cover of Lady Gaga’s ‘Poker Face’, condemning the aforementioned artiste as a hellbound whore.

  • mko

    As bad as Phelps is, he hasn’t killed anyone, and has even been fairly peaceful as far as demonstrating. Think I would probably move the Heaven’s Gate guy up a few spots he Christianity seemed fairly incidental to him just being crazy; would probably switch him and Pat Robertson. Failed to even mention Bastard Pat’s charity fraud, diamond mines, and ties to inhumane African despots.

  • sharlu

    Wow great list! Jim Jones still freaks me out

  • tarachowski

    “He has claimed to be able to deflect hurricanes by praying to God, and stated that Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment for abortion throughout America (not for Mardi Gras, which would be a little more understandable)”
    Erm, why?! What has the Mardi Gras done?! The thing i find weird about this whole “the bible condemns homosexuality” crap is that homosexuality as a term and form of sexual orientation is a completely modern concept, defined by early psychologists – back then the term and idea didn’t even exist, sexuality was only categorized around the Enlightenment period.

  • Steve

    @BravehisTickle (2): Why don’t you make a list yourself instead of expecting someone else to do the work. Just because you “want” something, don’t expect to get it.
    BTW, I like Jesus, it’s his fan club I can’t hack.

  • Davern

    And don’t forget shrimp or blended fibres.

  • Karl

    @T (4): I agree. I am a Christian (more specifically a Catholic) and I think those guys up there in that list are giving the wrong message. Christianity, like any other religion, is about peace & love, not hate & bigoty. I think the reason why there are increasing numbers of atheists is because of those people up there in that list.

  • Morticia

    @BravehisTickle (2) – Just what I wanted to say.

  • Andee

    Very interesting list. Flamehorse – ive really been enjoying your work – keep it up!!

  • tarachowski

    @Darthtaco – see, you won’t find anything condemning homosexuality outright because the entire concept didn’t exist! I completely agree with Daver (15) it was all about procreation – but seeing as we’ve overpopulated massively it doesn’t really count anymore. I’m with Doug Stanhope: sodomy is green :P Want to save the planet? “Don’t f**k in the fronthole”

  • mrjimmy

    Couldn’t they just go to church every sunday like everyone else

  • JGarcia

    Anybody who pickets soldiers funerals and holds signs that say “thank god for dead soldiers” has a very special place in hell. I hope that guy gets ass raped in jail one day. This is coming from a soldier who served a tour in iraq btw.

  • Armodillotron

    No George Bush? Remember-“This is a crusade,” and, “God told me to invade Iraq.” Hmm..

  • Alex

    Terrible list. By no means should a person who is unfamiliar with the Bible text, especially Sodom and Gomorrha, and also not even Christian make a list about those who “make it look bad.” It’s ignorant. It’s senseless. It’s seemingly just to make the entire body of believers come across as enemies of humanity… No one claiming the grass is greener one the other side, clearly never having been there, has no room to speak of the claim’s validity.

  • Alex

    Why not ten who give it them best name out of all worldwide religions? On that note, why not a list explaining why Islam is the most dangerous? Or why abortion should be abolished? Or the Biblical treatment of homosexuality and sin in general?

  • Mr. Happy

    The one who created this list is a gay. Im sure of that. You just hate gay-haters…

    Anyways, the list is bias. But I love bias. So i love this list. Way to go!

  • Paschalis

    None of these are true Christians. It may bother some people, but I believe that the only people deserve to call themselves Christians are the Orthodox.
    Catholics are catholics, protestants are protestants.
    For us Orthodox all these are heresies started 1000 years after Christ’s martyric death and Ressurection. Imagine what misinformation pass through catholic and protestant preaching.
    Religion doesn’t mean something if you are not a good person. Christ, Mother Mary and the Apostles never spoke about Christians. They spoke about good, passionate and honest people.
    So, your article is interesting us a crime library, but it would be better if you change the title “Christianity” with something else like “Modern heresies that has nothing to do with Christianity”.

  • @Alex (42): Wow, just look at your you even know half of the stuff about terrorists and extremists? When a terror attack takes place, many people who die belong to the ‘religion’ of terrorists…it’s all about power. I bet most of the shit that happens is state-sponsored.. votebank politics is the main agenda.

  • There is no dangerous religion in this world except Scientology :)

  • Maximuz04

    People who give christians a bad name?
    Thats like having a list about
    “People who give santa claus believers a bad name”…

  • Godrock

    Scientology doesn’t teach hatred though. (At least from everything I’ve read on it) So….it’s not really dangerous, just extremely idiotic. Crazy how many lambs are out there. Try walking for yourself people.

  • deathorats

    The things people will do for attention…

  • tarachowski

    @ Godrock – I thought they hated psychologists? I’m sure that was one of the things in Mr. Cruise’s preaching YouTube vid.

  • rain

    Cool list dude!
    But too Peoplewhogivechristianityabadnamey. . . :D

  • BTW whenever Scientology is mentioned, John Travolta and his god-awful movie comes to my mind..;)

  • khatzeye

    @BravehisTickle (2): I agree with you. Im no were near being religious but you explain to me how a so-called-christian woman take in 13 foster kids just to not feed them, make them wash thier own clothes in the bath tub, give them daily bruises everyday and basically have them fend for themselve. Oh but when the case worer comes everyone looks and smells like a million bucks and the stupid bitch wont believe a word you say about this foster mother who by the way in a christian woman who does devotion every even and takes us to church every sunday, say she takes good care of yall just by ur appearence that day. I was one of those kids. Christian people have an under cover agenda and to thro themselve from suspicion they slander other religions so they look like everyone’s fucking savior. Seriously, fuck christian people. lol this is why i never talk about religion is only reminds me of her, the lady who thank to her is responsible for me never drinking milk again cuz she FORCED me and the other to drink sour milk. Ya a real stand up christian woman.

  • khatzeye

    @Paschalis (44): Ya ur right any man in a cloak who like to suck lil boys pee pee’s ARE the good christian!! LMAO are u fucking kidding me!

  • 8bithero

    I do enjoy those Christians that treat the Bible as a pick and choose adventure book. Leviticus also says; eating shellfish is an abomination unto God (same wording as homosexuals), that women aren’t allowed to wear men’s vestments, not to cut your hair, no tattoos, that both parties involved in adultery must be put to death, that a woman must be a virgin upon marriage or be put to death, and on and on and on.

    They just ignore those things, though. Along with a whole slew of other things the Bible says, but people don’t necessarily want to follow.

  • astraya

    Briefly –

    a) Most of these people are not Christian, either by what they believe, what they say or what they do.

    b) How about a list of people who give Christianity a good name?

  • khatzeye

    @Alex (41): Lmao ya the bible!! lets see… I especially enjoy the story of the 2 daughters that got their father very drunk so they could rape them. The most munipulative yet influential book on this planet.

  • @astraya (57): Yeah, that’d be much better and similar for other religions also…e.g. that philanthropist from Pakistan in the NPP list..I didn’t know about him. Makes you feel happy :)

  • I just hope people don’t start mud-slinging and ranting ‘This religion is bad, this one is good, that is the worst’ etc type stuff. The arguments do not reach any conclusion and it’s quite irritating.

  • @khatzeye (60): Hey cool it man, you should not let any horrible childhood experience spoil the rest of your life.

  • Brit

    Can I suggest that you add “Flamehorse” to the list, as the choice of names says more about the compliler than it does about the intended subject area!

  • Korinthian

    How did you ever miss the pope and mother Teresa? Do some reading.

    • Bosco

      no…you do some reading…seriously.

  • lrigD

    Ay. Good list, but awful people!

    I just wonder why so many people have something against Jewish people. I can kind of understand how the holocaust could happen, but how come that something so backwards still survives today? There must be bad Jews, yes. As there are bad christians (as demonstrated by this list), bad muslims, bad atheists… do Jewish people give off some kind of ‘I’m Jewish, kick me’ thing? I just really don’t get it anymore. It’s just so wrong.

  • scientifis

    All religious people are living in a fantasy world. They cannot be deep thinkers. They have to die out before humanity can progress.

    • redwolfblack

      wow do you know how many people that belive in a god have helped humanity as a whole?

  • @lrigD (65): Many people hate Jews(unfortunately), maybe because of too much hate propagated through literature? e.g. William Shakespeare and the present Israeli Government’s questionable actions..just my personal opinion. It can also be the case of creating religious superiority by denigrating other religions.

  • Don

    Excellent list, well researched and presented. It’s amazing to me how some people can behave and justify it in the name of religion, and yes I tar Muslim extremists with that brush. Throughout history people have behaved abhorrently and justified it in the name of religion (the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades to name but two examples). What the world is going through right now with the so called “War On Terror” can be boiled down to a bunch of religious radicals killing innocent people because of their beliefs. Another well done list by Flamhorse, I hope you’re prepared for the shitstorm this is sure to ignite.

  • jake ryder

    Only 10 eh?

  • nicoleredz3

    *Claps vigorously

    Excellent job, FlameHorse!

    I believed that number 1 would’ve definitely gone to Jim Jones… Due to the fact that there were almost a thousand ppl killed, because of his foolishness. I am amazed that most of these “pastors” were racist. Didn’t God create us ALL? Endorsing the KKK and violently opposing abortion? Wow…

    Nonetheless, very informative and great read!

  • ciremelf

    Great list! As for Fred Phelps… I always thought he was a far right wing republican, BUT i WAS WRONG! According to numerous sources he is a Democrat! Given the Democrats history of racism and anti-semitism, I should have realized this off the bat. I hope this list opens the eyes of many liberals out there and shows them that conservatives are not the racist party that they think we are.

  • nicoleredz3

    @BravehisTickle (2):

    Well said!

  • nicoleredz3

    @Armodillotron (40):

    Honestly, I looked for that name, as well… :-(

  • @ciremelf (71): “Given the Democrats history of racism and anti-semitism”
    I’d like to know your source for making such a statement.

  • oouchan

    Awesome list, Flamehorse!
    Here are 10 more reason why I don’t follow this religion and never will. Too many nutjobs….since there are more just like these.
    I’m glad you put the sick f**k Phelps at number one. He’s the worst.

  • calipso

    Great List.Although the title can be changed to “10 people following the Christian teachings in the Old Testament”

  • watchdog2020

    Hasn’t the Catholic Church been giving Christianity a bad name since the inquisition?

  • ciremelf

    @BravehisTickle. not to sound rude or demeaning, but pick up a history book sometime. The confederacy was a Democratic secession from the USA, The KKK, Aryan Nations, etc were all started by Far-Left liberals. David duke, Robert Byrd, Hugo Black, Ernest Hollings,and yes… Even Franklin Delano Roosevelt, ALL Democrats. Now i am not saying that the right wing is pure and without sin – I personally have said and done things which i regret – but Historically, it began with democrats.

  • jolly

    great job …expand on it from other religions and walks of life .

  • PirateXxEsque

    that was a pretty damn good list.
    Powerful, interesting, with something all people can relate to in one way or another.

    I do like that some hate-lists such as this are acceptable.

  • ciremelf

    @BravehisTickle To be fair… Here is a link on two well known republicans who were not so righteous. Stromm Thurmond and William Rendquist.

  • gabyvhenteciete

    great list. i’ll give the top spot though to jim jones though.

  • Marie

    “Ordinarily, the lister should remain aloof from the list,”< I laughed bitterly when I read that because this list was full of biased little tidbits. It was an interesting subject but your inclusion of your personal beliefs both irked me and discredited you.

    "Moon is vehemently opposed to homosexuality, and yet he makes the common mistake of hating them, spewing rage at them, instead of trying of forgiving and trying to convert them from the sin." <== wtf? So gays need to be 'fixed'? How is judging people on their sexuality any different than judging them on their race?

    "God’s punishment for abortion throughout America (not for Mardi Gras, which would be a little more understandable)" ? really? I don't get what you're getting at here, and I'm not sure I want to.

    Overall I really wanted to like this list but your grammatical errors and biases made it quite difficult. I'll be interested to read the rest of the comments and see if anyone else notices this as well.

  • sirMouse

    @Iain (25): Anyone want to link me? I would pay good money to see that.

  • Marie

    @ciremelf (78) i don’t think the current republican/democratic parties look anything like their 1860s counterparts. In fact they’ve flip-flopped around so much they’re virtually unrecognizable when historically compared.

  • WeAreGeek

    You forgot God…

  • ciremelf

    @Marie Yes i will agree with you on that point. both parties have become a disemboweled mess, but I blame this on the mainstream media. Today’s youth rely too heavily on other people(the media) and just copy what they say instead of using the media as an outline then making their OWN opinion, while respecting the opinions of others.

  • JimFearless

    I love how you can take a list about Christian crazies and make it about sexuality. For all those on their pedestal I’d take a step down. The fact that condemning homosexuality is mentioned on the list so prominently shows that the people on the list are nutjobs. No one is gonna read a list called “10 normal people doing normal things”.

    Personally I thought the list was well written and each segment demonstrated how anti-christian these “Christians” are/were. Props to Flamehorse for another great list and for all those peope whining, here’s a free Kleenex voucher… and one to get a clue

  • mom424

    Great list Flamehorse; interesting subject matter and well written as always – BUT I too am troubled by the nasty little digs. In the first entry you insinuate that homosexuality is a life-style choice. Shame on you for that; I assumed you knew better. If there even is a god, I’m pretty sure he cares much more how you love than whom. With care, consideration, and an open-heart and mind. Not the Phelps kind of love; with control, judgment, and ignorance.

    @Alex (40): How do you know Flamehorse isn’t a Christian?

  • missmozell

    Well, I’m surprised I didn’t see Jim Baker or Jimmy Swaggert up there. But then they were just hypocrites and con men, so that doesn’t measure up to murder and organized religious terrorism. Also have to comment on Orel Roberts. He wasn’t/isn’t evil, but come on… saying he needed fillintheblank in donations or ‘God will call me home’. Anyone remember the National Lampoon cover with someone holding a gun to a dog’s head? ‘Buy this issue or we shoot the dog!’ Somehow I think God is beyond that.

  • wondersquid

    There’s never any shortage of followers for these people. SIGH.

  • Mr. gale


    I don’t agree with the order.

    Jim Jones should be nomber one. He is in my oppinion the Ultimate Wolf in Sheep-skin. Phelps and Coughlin are nothing compared to him.

  • I’d replace Moon, Jones, and Applewhite with guys who actually claimed to be Christian, like Swaggart, Orel Roberts, and Jim Bakker.

    Even then, I’ll give Bakker some credit: he’s confessed his sins publicly and apologized for them.

  • get a clue

    You get points for getting “Flavor Aid” right instead of the misquoted Kool-Aid. And for somehow narrowing down the list to only 10. How you left off the Pope (any of them), Jerry Falwell and Oral Roberts, though…..

    Look, all organized religion is just so much bullshit and easily documentable for most of the problems throughout history. This list also demonstrates how the minor ‘charasmatics’ are also good at fleecing (and then killing) their flocks. People have always done really obscene things when they choose to hand their power over to someone, or something else.
    By the way, here are just a few questions I enjoy asking Christians who insist on wasting my time. Feel free to use them to excellent effect:
    1. Why is Jesus’s birth always celebrated on December 25 but he “dies” (Good Friday) on a different date each year?
    2. Where did Adam and Eve’s daughter in-laws come from? (Basing an entire religious culture on incest gives me the creeps.)
    3. Why is Knowledge evil? (as in eating from the Tree of Knowledge was a sin)
    4. How could Noah put all those animals on the ark, keep them killing each other, and then put them all back to produce their species with a single mating pair apiece? (Incest does not genetically work well, even in animals.) Now fair is fair: if you’re going to tell me some of these Bible stories were not meant to be taken literally then you’ve admitted the Bible is not in “inerrant word of God,” but instead just a book of stories, open to interpretation.
    5. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
    6. Why was the Jesus’s corpse gone from the tomb? It was supposedly his spirit, his soul that others saw. So why the missing corpse?
    7. Why is Judas vilified? He was only fulfilling the “prophecy.” In other words, doing what God has preordained. (Which calls into play all that “free will” babble.)
    Hey, 3 more and I have a list. :-)

  • mom424

    Hehe – for all you religion haters out there – it now appears that Religion is responsible for everything; villages, agriculture, civilization – the whole shebang!

  • Klamp

    You left out the Pope..

  • Kyle

    Hi the list was OK but you could have saved alot of time and been pretty accurate by just mentioning the scores of catholic priests all over the world who subject countless children to sexual torture by forcible raping and molesting them. Far far worse then being homophobic antisemetic or convincing a bunch of nutcases to kill themselves- but i guess -up to you to choose the worse evil…

  • ringtailroxy

    i am staying away from commenting on this one-i would rather read what others say…
    great list, but you forgot Ted Haggerd…

  • get a clue

    @95 Yeah, because anything published in Newsweek is automatically true and negates all other evidence and facts. I know most educated people the world over hesitate to speak out on an issue until Newsweek tells them what to think. Oh, look! Brittany Spears is on the cover again! OMG!

  • gremy0

    @Paschalis (43): when you talk about Orthodox you mean the side of Christianity that basically started a holy war in Russia over how many fingers were to be used when blessing something?

    apart from that your argument is completely flawed no matter what you “believe” Christianity to be, it is a religion that worships Christ and in any classification system used anywhere, if you develop from something your are still classified as that thing…..e.g birds are dinosaurs

  • Freshies

    @Paschalis (44):

    If you believe in Christ than your a Christian…your making it too complicated. That is the definition, plain and simple.

  • Mememe

    You know, although I don’t agree with any religion in particular (I would have to make too many exceptions in their respective dogmas), I really hope these guys get to meet God; I’d love to listen to what He’d say to these people (and all religious zealots, maniacs and self-righteous idiots).

  • Stevezio

    Jessie Jackson?
    Al Sharpton?
    The Catholic Church (sometimes)

  • Jay Poe

    Marshall Applewhite and Heaven’s Gate were renting the house in San Diego. They left a lot of damage and the owner couldn’t afford to fix it and had to give it back to the bank. Talk about tenants from hell.

    The house was shortly bulldozed to the ground.

  • Alex

    I suggest the greatest (and undoubtibly the longest) list EVER! —> Top Ten People The Give Athiests and Agnostics a Bad Name. =]

    -Flamehorse is most assurdley a non-Christian (or a very confused one.) Anyone reading his/her list’s with half a brain and one eye can see that.
    -The Bible EXPLICITY forbids any close family relations (i.e. Incest)
    -Where the power of Light is absent, the powers of Darkness succeed. Basically, where the Light of God shows, things are usually temperate and calm. When we take the reality of God’s existence out of our thought process (to the point of tricking others into believing YOU are God) things are unimaginabley dangerous.
    -Most people on here actually did stuff. Just what harm did Pat Robertson actually “do”?

  • Jay Poe

    I believe the whole history of Christianity gives them a bad name.

  • damien_karras

    Notable omission: Tomás de Torquemada

    “I was sitting in a temple
    I was minding my own business
    I was listening to a lovely Hebrew mass
    Then these papus persons plunge in, and they throw me in a
    dungeon, and they shove a red hot poker up my ass!

    Is that considerate?
    Is that polite?
    And not a tube of Preparation H in sight!”

  • MouseintheHouseMI

    A statement that I’ve heard many times before led me to some pondering. It goes something like, “God’s great, it’s His followers I can’t stand”. I’ve thought that, too from time to time. Actually, I still do at times and with certain individuals.

    While asking the same questions atheists and agnostics ask, I’ve determined one thing for sure. “…it’s His followers I can’t stand”, actually applies to all people regardless of religion or lack of religion. It would appear that all humans suffer from the same issues and hypocrisy that they accuse their fellow brethren of. If it’s not Christians you have issues with, it may be Jews, democrats, conservatives, Tories, blacks, whites, Greeks, Italians, Americans, or a host of any other criteria. When a person says “it’s His followers I can’t stand”, they are really just making an incorrect stereotypical assumption that can apply to any given group of people.

    I’ve stopped blaming “organized religion” for a lot of things, as I am realizing the root problem is more or less “organized anything” or plain ol’ humanity. A Catholic refers to these problems as the Seven Capital Sins – wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. You can agree or disagree with the Seven Capital Sins, but apparently you have to deal with them regardless of religion, race, or creed.

    How does this apply to the list? Nobody is exempt from human nature, and the list shows Christians are just people too.

  • Leopold Stotch

    You want to properly learn about religion, watch the show “Southpark”.

  • oouchan

    @damien_karras (107):
    Of course that is to follow with:

    “I was sittin’ flickin’ chickens
    And I’m looking through the pickins’
    When suddenly these goys break down my walls
    I didn’t even know them
    And they grab me by the scrotum
    And they started playing ping-pong with my balls
    Oy the agony
    Oh the shame
    To make your privates public for a game!”

  • Lifeschool

    Hi all,

    [wearing sensible hat]

    I must say, I thought this was a great list Flamehorse – it isn’t always the easiest thing to be open minded; especially in the face of a subject matter which, by definition, attempts to highlight 10 people with arguably quite rigid ideas, standards, morals and beliefs. I could see what you were trying to say, and didn’t read too deeply into why (i.e. for what vested agenda – if any) you may have said it.

    The proof of that approach may be seen in the fact that it took 40 comments before the first outrage(ious) post – high praise for a list almost sure to set off some kind of objection – or at least a series of knee-jerk reactions.

    The gist, perhaps, may be that the people on the list were plainly misguided. If we can see their way, perhaps we can also see why it isn’t really benefitial to be like that (anymore)…?

  • ianz09

    Excellent list FlameHorse, one of my favorites. I don’t know whether or not you are Christian, or just sympathize with it, but regardless I respect that you were willing to attack it, rather than jumping on the “well they were followers so it’s ok” bandwagon that many Christians jump on. I would like to see follow up lists, such as people who give good a name to Christianity, or more so I would like to see people who give bad names to other religions, especially Islam. Islam is far and away the most currently misunderstood religion today. It’s such a shame that the extremely small but extremely loud extremist minority has tainted such a peaceful people’s image. It’s also a shame that in a view that can only be bigotry, we allowed these few to taint the image of a whole religion. All religions of the world have one consistent flaw in common: people.

    Daron Malakian, the guitarist to my favorite band, once said on stage “Jesus, save us from your followers!” As for myself, I believe in God, not Christianity.

    Flame war, engage!

  • ianz09

    @MouseintheHouseMI (108): Good comment

  • randomprecision24

    Jeremiah Wright anyone?

  • nosferatwo

    @Parker (11): thats what i kept thinking. “He extrapolates God’s hatred for gays to ridiculous lengths…” That, to me, says “god hates gay people, but not THAT much.”

  • J

    MEL GIBSON anyone??

  • WhiteDragon

    @tarachowski (37): read a piece of literature or a poem or read up on history of the time the bible was written. Homosexuality was rampant, especially among boy and the men rich enough to enslave them.

    @Davern (14) and @Parker (28): Your both speaking about the Old Testament. As far as Christianity and the bible is concerned after the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus those old laws were no longer valid since the ultimate sacrifice had been given. Therefore, obviously, those laws are not valid today either. If you come across a Christian who actually believes homosexuals should die or that woman are shunned at certain times of the month that person really needs to check their head at the door and maybe actually pick up a Bible and read it for once.

  • Lifeschool

    [wearing silly hat]

    I’m Jesus!

    No!, I’m Jesus!

    No, No – I’M JESUS!!

    Well, I’m afraid they’re all wrong because I AM the reincarnation of Jesus! And I say “take you’re free will and do with it as you will. Go and make lists: and lists be praised!” :)

  • Lauren

    There are so many things I would like to say, but I think for my own sanity I’m not going to go into all of it here.

    Suffice to say that I thought this was a very interesting list. People get far to wrapped up in themselves and what they consider to be religion and become nuts. If more people stepped away from “religion” and stepped into a relationship with God, then the world would be a better place.

  • undaunted warrior

    From the top shelf again well done Flame well researched and written.

  • Lill-Erik Andersson

    Somebody should make an additional list
    people who give:
    Protestants a bad name.

    I will start on my end.

  • WhiteDragon

    @Parker (11): I believe the Bible was written by God (I admit that at my own personal expense…I’ve read the comments on this board and expect to receive hatemail in my inobx seconds after I post this ;P). I think rather that it was interpreted entirely wrong by “people who claim to have known what God wants/doesn’t want”. God doesn’t dislike homosexuals nor does the bible even remotely say that He does.

  • WhiteDragon

    @Lauren (119): Well said… :)

    And btw, great list!

  • flamehorse

    @ianz09 (113): Thanks. And thanks to everyone else who liked it.

    I would like to clarify a few things, not because I’m insulted, but because I just don’t want anyone believing incorrect facts.

    I am not gay, and I am a polite, forgiving Christian, non-denominational. I am against homosexuality on the grounds that the Bible calls it a sin, and it does. But I do not hate anyone. Hatred is thoroughly wrong, and really stupid. It doesn’t do anyone any good. If a Christian would like to rid the world of a sin, s/he must do so by love and explanation.

    The 10 idiots on this list have done a quite a lot to ruin things for everyone. They have not succeeded, just made Christianity’s job a lot harder.

  • WiseMenSay

    @tarachowski (37): heh, Doug Stanhope is brilliant. and Charlie Brooker. if only more people watched that programme…

    but yeah, good list, even if i did see #1 coming from a mile away.

  • Lifeschool

    Interestingly; David Koresh founded his sect after returning from a trip to Jerusalem – leading some to suggest he was the victim of inflence there; either by direct mental manipulation or by-proxy through the ‘Jerusalem Syndrome’. I once saw a documentary on this ‘Jerusalem syndrome’ and I think Louis Theroux did a special on it one time (or I saw his do a peice on it during one of Micheal Moores sarcastic TV Nation episodes). It is interesting to research – in a wierd way – as more and more people claim to have ‘contracted’ it. Yeah I know it sounds like bull. May be so. But interesting perhaps.

  • The Truth

    At Parker (12) and Me (31):

    Go ahead and make any excuse you want for accepting or practicing homosexuality. The world we be a horrible place if we all just assumed the people who translated the bible were biased or lacking in facts. The fact is, modern times and what we know now has nothing to do with it. The bible condemes Homosexuality period.

    Now, I have gay friends, and I am a very forgiving Christian. I will accept anyone who is a good person… no matter what their sexual orientation is. BUT I will not try to manipulate the bible because it annoys me personally that homosexuality is a sin. It is… so do what you want with your life but please dont assume you know better than anyone else. God’s message is clear.

  • WhiteDragon

    @flamehorse (124): Well said flamehorse…I’m right there with ya :)

  • Eleanor

    Christians give Christians a bad name.

  • Leopold Stotch

    @flamehorse (124):

    Can you write a list about sports or the winter olympics that are currently going on please and thank you. My lists and requests for a list have been falling on def ears and surely your list would get published.

  • satan

    i’m pretty sure christianity doesn’t need help giving itself a bad name ;)

  • Lifeschool

    Oh what the heck, it fits in with the list so here ya go:

    Yeah, it was from TV Nation.

  • Scratch

    @satan (131):

    Hey pops, can I have my soul back now?

  • qwerty

    this great list was completely unexpected after all the recent drivel.

  • Moonbeam

    Hey Arsnl I guess you’re right about me always “schooling the commenters” I’m going to do it again – it seems I can’t help myself! :D

    For everyone who’s been saying this one or that one should be first – this isn’t a top ten list. There is no particular order to it.

    @mom424 (89): FlameHorse has a knack for coming up with interesting and controversial lists, but as far as “well written” I’m not so sure that I’d agree (sorry FlameHorse). It’s chock full of bias and homophobia. I have to agree with @Marie (83): (Although I think the Mardi Gras and Ronald Reagan comments may have been meant as jokes?)

    @khatzeye (54): How heartbreaking it is for any child who’s suffered from terrible abuse. Especially when done under the name of God or religion. It makes me so grateful for my own childhood. My parents were Catholic (I am not) but they were so full of love and concern for their children. Although not a perfect upbringing, one of my parents was troubled and difficult to cope with, they did the best they could. I’m sorry your upbringing was so horrific.

    Finally, people hate comments about grammar, and call those of us bothered by it “grammar Nazis”, but here again is a list sorely in need of editing. It makes it hard to read when a list hasn’t been looked over by a second party. No offense FlameHorse and Listverse. I’m quit certain my own comments contain mistakes. It must be difficult to edit a complete list every single day of the year, I wonder how other sites are able to pull it off?

  • BravehisTickle

    @flamehorse (124): Hey sire, I just wanted to enquire..isn’t saying ‘I am against homosexuality’ similar to saying ‘ I am against homosexuals’ ? or suppose someone who says ‘I hate Judaism’ actually means ‘I hate Jews’?

  • Hodari

    Im an Atheist, i dont even use the word god in my own language, i prefer to say “thank crud for this and that…”. Even thought i dont care the heck of cristians, i actually think them as the worst of all main religions, i say, that all of the people on that list are/were ABSOLUTELY sick, power-ridden fools, who had no real statement on their sides whatsoever.

    By the way, to all christians: Did you know, that Jesus most definetly had dark skin? He was born in Middle-East, you know.

  • get a clue
  • Zig

    Phenomenal list, thank you! Sick to death of these hypocritical wankers who continue to subvert the true message of Christ for their own worldly dominion of wealth and power. Serpents, all of them, but hey, they’ll get theirs.

  • nicoleredz3

    @get a clue (94):

    Whoa! You’re gonna make my head pop…

  • General Tits Von Chodehoffen

    Dude great list. People have to be so dumb to join a cult.

  • Lifeschool

    @Moonbeam (135): Editing is a real pain in the butt – and I have to do it all the time in my line of work/interest. As someone said years ago maybe, the folks on the LV are unpaid ameture helpers who try to fit the LV around their often busy working and playing lives. At least we have Mom to help – and she is open and often humble about missing things. While others may say ‘What’re they moaning about?’, I can empathize that sometimes it can be hard to read things through when the mind keeps flagging up typing mistakes.

    If you’re looking in Mom242, someone one said that reading the words as individual words helps. “If you read the line – you’re fired – it’s the words people read not the lines!” – or something like that. Sorry if that’s no help… :|

    Right, I’m off.

  • WhiteDragon

    @khatzeye (54): I’m extremely sorry for what you went through but I’m going to say this because your obvious lack of respect for people. I’m extremely offended by what you said about Christians. Frankly I don’t care whether you like me or not but to lump every single Christian into one group because of one person shows a complete lack of immaturity and respect. There’s not a single Christian I know that would ever do something like that. Has it ever crossed your mind that instead of every Christian being like that maybe she wasn’t actually a Christian at all and just pretending? Your inability to take one bad person out of a group instead lumping everyone else in with her makes you just as intolerant as some people say Christians are of other people…why should people have respect for you when you have none for others.

  • Forrest Greene

    I am so grateful to my parents for raising me without adherence to any organized religion & without any mention of any deity, ever. I received plenty of clear, effective lessons in morality, ethics, & respect for & tolerance of those who were different in some way from me. I’ve lived a decent, peaceful, spiritual life without any need whatsoever for any middlemen between me & the grand universe of which I’m a part. No one needs them.

  • labaria

    I think that Jim Jones should be #1 because of the amount of deaths that he caused (915 not 909). I am from Guyana and I knew some members of the People’s Temple. Jim Jones taught them to fear the Guyanese people, especially the law enforcement. They were not allowed to be friendly or to interact with any of the locals. Jim Jones’ Peoples’ Temple was located in the North Western part of Guyana which is sparsely populated and very isolated.

  • WhiteDragon

    @Hodari (137): Ummm, yes…who wouldn’t know that and what difference does that make?

  • Surya

    I liked the one from David Koresh:

    Don’t move until you see God.

    I didn’t move till I saw Him.

    But God saw me and moved away.

  • ZombieJulie

    It’s sad that anyone would confuse any of these people for Christians.

    To be “Christ-like” is to love, not vomit hate out of every opening of your body.

  • WhiteDragon

    @ZombieJulie (148): very true

  • porkido


    “I am against homosexuality on the grounds that the Bible calls it a sin, and it does.”

    What does being “against” it mean, exactly?

  • Arsnl

    @Moonbeam (135): hey moonbeam i told you. Its a funny quirk that i like.
    I am a more practical guy: i think the purpose of a religion is to make that person be better.
    Also if a person doesnt understand math and invents a wrong math that doesnt mean that math is wrong and the new invented math is a new guideline. It just means that the person is stupid. Of course you could argue well we know math is right, how do we know religion is right: well cuz some people are good, some people are bad religion stays the same. (if you think of it that would be a good way to define science: some are bad at it some are good at it. That doesnt change science). Lets be serious: wars happened for all reasons: ergo aint religion’s fault; people do all types of dumb things: aint religions fault. Lets just see that its craziness that drives these people, religion is just an excuse. If it not religion, its patriotism and all its forms , so on and so forth.
    @Hodari (137): do you know that {(x,y) real numbers/ x*y=0} isnt a manifold? Is it the moment of earth shattering info sharing?

  • mom424

    @Moonbeam (135): I did qualify my praise; I don’t like the bias either and portraying homosexuality as a choice is just plain wrong and misleading imo. None of the homosexuals I know chose it….sorry Flamehorse but you’re wrong and have been deluded by your Bible.

    @get a clue (99): What you don’t recognize sarcasm? and I did say “appears”. I’m like a half step away from atheism myself – I’m just not anti-religion.

  • get a clue

    Sorry, mom :-) Please accept my apologies.

  • Ed

    As far as bible picking and choosing goes, one thing that always gets overlooked that I can’t understand isn’t made more of a big deal:

    1) Jesus Christ, the supposed model all people calling themselves Christians should be trying to emulate, said NOTHING about homosexuality. No red-ink quotes at all. Now maybe some could say he was just assuming his audience knew the previous laws, or else that there was no concept of it as we know it today at the time, but the fact remains, no quotes from the source.

    2) HOWEVER–Jesus was very outspoken and vehemently against the practice of DIVORCE and REMARRIAGE. Several places in the gospels he directly singles it out as a sin, and says it’s adultery and should not happen. This is explicit, red-ink stuff!

    And yet–pastors and preachers get divorced and remarried all the time, without the slightest guilt over it–all while condemning homosexuality from the pulpit. :P

    (FWIW, I am not a Christian, though I was raised a Southern Baptist and thus am very familiar with the bible.)

  • nicoleredz3

    @porkido (150):

    I think he meant that he doesn’t endorse homosexual behaviour in any form or fashion…

  • James O’Sullivan

    Let’s not forget Jesus…

  • WhiteDragon

    @Ed (154): As Christians we believe the Bible is the word of God. Jesus is God…the Bible says:
    “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

    However, the verse also proves another point. IMO it proves Christians should not look down upon homosexuals. Yes it’s a sin and I don’t condone it…but we all sin and the Bible does not point out homosexuality as being any worse then other sins that people commit on a daily basis.

  • ohnojojo8

    Great list…but these people are already well known. What’s needed is a list of those that are not so obvious…a list of who to look out for. Still, this a great source of info and I hope a lot of people take the time to read it. I worry about those seemingly innocent up-and-commers who are developing loyal followers even now. Most of us, at one point or another in our lives, need someone to belong to or something to be part of, especially if we are at a lonely point. That needing to belong is what these religious zealots pounce on. There certainly is nothing wrong with having strong religious convictions. Why can’t these people keep them to themselves? Even as I write this there is some cult somewhere that we have not yet even heard of…someone is losing their sense of self right now….someone is being brain washed right now.

  • Savanti Romero

    Christianity gives Christianity a bad name. It’s all pointless rituial and nonsence that should have no bering in modern life but unfortunatly does.

  • mathilda2

    @Ed (154): I was just getting ready to post along the same lines.

    Jesus said, in Matthew 5:32 “But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.” Oh, and Malachy 2:16 says “I hate divorce, says the LORD God of Israel.” So it’s very clear that divorce and re-marriage is an offense to God.

    I try to rise above the temptation to hate all divorcees, however. I just hate the fact that people got divorced. In fact, some of my best friends are divorced! I must say I don’t know why they chose to pursue such an unrighteous lifestyle, though.

    I do really think that we should create laws where if divorcees who are getting remarried have children, those children should be removed from their parents and given up for adoption. After all, a family is about one man, one woman and their children – how can a family consist of one man, his new wife, one woman, her new husband, and any number of half-sisters, half-brothers, step-sisters, and step-brothers? If we continue to allow such “blended” families the next thing will be man on dog sex! And children obviously should not have to grow up in a household with parents who are so obviously immoral as to ignore the clear teachings of God.

    Oh, almost got so distracted by my sarcasm that I forgot to say… Great list!

  • Phender_Bender

    I’d like one of Phelps’ follower children to die, then all the families of soldiers can protest their funeral.
    Honestly, protesting soldiers’ funerals is the most despicable thing you can do, it’s got me so mad and disgusted I want to punch a small animal in the throat.

  • Jay Poe

    @mathilda2 (160): I didn’t think you were being sarcastic at first.

    Almost 50% of marriages ends in divorce (at least here in America). So I guess they’re all sinners too huh? We’ll see if homosexual divorces ever reach that number.

    It’s amazing that most people “sin” everyday but have the nerves to call homosexuals sinners. Isn’t it still a sin to eat meat on Fridays.

  • dc420911

    wow, 63jax is a stupid asshole so im guessing hes a christian. christianity is bullshit the only reason any of these people got the amount of power and followers that they did is because christianity trains them from the time they are children to be followers and not think for themselves.

  • ohnojojo8

    @Forrest Greene 144–Very well written! I was raised the same way, but unfortunately I am not nearly such an eloquent writer. Great post–well said.


  • WhiteDragon

    @Ed (154): And also…the ENTIRE bible is the inspired word of God…all that red ink only goes to point out what Jesus physically said not to indicate it’s more important than the rest of the bible. It’s kind of ignorant to say that if it’s not in red ink it doesn’t mean anything or doesn’t count.

  • Marv in DC

    @The Truth (127): “so do what you want with your life but please dont assume you know better than anyone else.”
    I will as long as you also assume you don’t know better than anyone else.

  • gyyyug

    Great list, but it could have been written a bit better

  • dustyjm

    Great list. I just hope we don’t judge a philosophy by it’s misrepresentation. Derek Webb wrote a great song about Fred Phelps called “Freddie Please”. You guys should check it out if you get a chance.

    ht tp://

  • WhiteDragon

    @dc420911 (163): So all Christians are stupid huh? I know some that would blow you out of the water intellectually…the people on this list aren’t Christians stupid and to lump them in with everyone who is is equally as stupid. Also the assumption that all Christians are religious from the time they are kids is ridiculously stupid…the majority of Chrisitans I know, including myself, did not become Christians until adulthood and are very capable of thinking for themselves. Your stupid too, so you must be a Christian…if I follow your logic correctly.

  • Keppa

    @Vas (6) That’s exactly what I was thinking…
    Never mind giving Christianity a bad name – how about the fact that these people give men a bad name, or give the human race a bad name??

    Also – I think that if people want the Westboro Baptist Church to disappear, we need to stop giving them what they want…shock, awe and thus power.
    Ignore the fact that they picket against everything and anything. It’s clearly ridiculous, makes no sense and could almost be considered comical (if they weren’t so vehement about it.) Stop making documentaries out of them and stop giving them your hate…it only stands to increase theirs.

  • Dan

    I formulated my own believes. I don’t need anybody to tell me what to believe. I don’t care how long you studied theology. All it means, is you will be able to quote scripture and understand, much better than I do, what is in the Bible (seems like a waste of mental capacity to me). As far as I’m concerned, it’s the same as being an expert on the book, Alice in Wonderland. When it comes right down to it, you don’t know a lick more than I do about what happens to you when you die. It’s all a big guess. And the people who wrote the Bible are the same people who believed if you sailed too far, you would fall off the edge of the World. And there followers of the word are the same people who put Galileo under house arrest for stating that there were moons circling Jupiter. I have my own religion; it’s called modern science and common sense. It doesn’t surprise me at all about these screwed up individuals. It’s just another example of the weak minded, following the instructions of con artists, the uninformed or mentally ill.

  • get a clue

    For those who find the Bible to be the unerring word of God…
    …Jesus was a zombie, for the Bible tells me so!
    John 6:54 Who ever eat my flesh, and drink my blood, hath eternal life;
    John 6:55 For my flesh is meat, and my blood is drink!
    Matthew 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead;
    Mark 9:10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
    Luke 7:15 And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak
    Luke 24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
    John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead
    John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
    Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

    It’s all there. I’m just reporting the facts and citing the source. ;-)

  • katerz

    David Koresh and his followers were burned alive by the FBI and ATF. It was all-out murder, not just a “botched” mission. Furthermore, they fabricated a bunch of allegations, including rumors of creating/selling meth, and having some scary cache of automatic weapons that they were going to use on the surrounding community to get the public on their side. With zero evidence of what Koresh was supposedly doing illegally, they burned many alive and shot others who attempted to flee. Other than practicing his own oddball interpretation of Christianity, what was unusual?

    Also, you will find that one of the doors to the front of their home — which they dubbed a “compound” — went MISSING after this tragedy took place. Why? The bullet holes on the door showed “innies,” not just “outies” from the bullets from Koresh’s people, proving they were fired upon. Tear gas and incendiary devices were used as well, and awful psychological approaches were used to get them to “surrender” were used, including playing recordings of animals being slaughtered and other weird effects like huge spotlights shined on their building (aka “The Psycho Lights of Waco”. They were slain solely for being different, and there is no proof that they were violent or abusing children.

    David Koresh was an odd guy by comparison, but the federal organizations gave THEMSELVES a bad name; Christianity was spared this time. It is amazing what people will believe with little to no evidence.

  • get a clue

    Katerz, you might want to loosen the rubber band holding your tin-foil hat on.
    I’m just sayin’.

  • get a clue

    White Dragon says, “Your stupid too…”
    Thanks for playing!

  • Fortunately because of the freedom of our country those of us who can rationilze on our own,think for ourselves, and logically come to sensible and rational conclusions are allowed to do so.Thankfully those us who enjoy the spirituality of religion and the joy it gives us are allowed to do so as well.We cannot helpfor those that would misuse and take these luxuries and pleasures and use them for their own personal gain

  • Jay Poe

    @katerz (173): Mistakes were made but it was not “all-out murder”. The siege lasted for 51 days, enough time to evacuate but they refused. They also shot at and killed several ATF agents.

    Unfortunate for the children but you can’t fire against federal agents and not expect retaliation.

    Christianity was not spared. It was another example of taking religion to its extreme.

  • HonkShoo

    The Westboro Baptists led by Fred Phelps came to Long Beach California recently to protest a high school that has “gay clubs” and “Jew clubs.”

    The Phelps followers sent nine adults and a few children. Apparently they were not aware of Long Beach’s long history of diversity, inclusion, and social conciousness. The protestors were soon surrounded by 4500 peaceful chanting high school students. The Hateful Phelps Followers were drowned out by a loving and supporting community.

    I am thankful for Fred Phelps sending his minions to our town to scare our children. He brought our community together to take a stand against his hatred and racism.

  • WhiteDragon

    @get a clue (172): Lol…I can’t tell whether or not your being sarcastic…j/k But seriously, for the first two references I didn’t know zombies where about people eating their flesh, and I didn’t know they had blood…cause their “living” dead, AND unerring doesn’t mean literal…the first two references are figurative…unless your crazy then they’re literal…as for the rest zombies, as I said are living dead…Jesus is just living come back from the dead…not living dead…besides get your head on straight – I might believe in a man come back from the dead but you believe in Zombies…

    *end sarcasm*

  • HonkShoo

    here is a link for anyone interested in the story.

  • Ed

    @White Dragon (165)

    >>It’s kind of ignorant to say that if it’s not in red ink it doesn’t mean anything or doesn’t count.

    As I said, I’m not a Christian (anymore), so no one part of the bible means more to *me* than any other part. But are you seriously saying that what Jesus actually *said* should be no more important to Christians than any other part of the bible? It seems if your whole religion is (ostensibly) based on living a “Christ-like” life, then that’d be stuff you’d want to pay particular attention to.

    But regardless of that, by your own formulation the stuff about divorce is no less important than the stuff back in Leviticus or later in Paul’s letters about homosexuality. Or the stuff Paul said about slaves, just to name another example. In which case, the contradiction is still there wrt picking-and-choosing what to rail against and what to ignore.

  • Ny

    Barely read this list – IMO, all Christians are idiots for following the ‘will’ of some guy’s imaginary friend who lives on a big cloud in the sky.

  • ianz09

    @get a clue (153):

    Step 1: Bend over

    Step 2: Pucker lips to desired puckeredness

    Step 3: Kiss moderators ass

    Repeat step 3 as necessary.

  • WhiteDragon

    @Ed (181): Umm no? I was talking about the fact that just because something isn’t in red ink doesn’t mean it’s not as important as what Jesus said not the other way around. The whole Bible is key in living a Christ-like life, not just some of it. Yes, I take to heart a great deal what Jesus said himself, but as I said it’s all the word of God.

    The last part of your statement makes no sense whatsoever. I’m not picking and choosing, I’m saying it’s all wrong. Sin is sin to God and it makes me angry when people single out homosexuals to hate when they have sin in their own lives. Their sin isn’t any less in the eye’s of God than homosexuality. I wasn’t railing or ignoring anything.

  • ianz09

    @WhiteDragon (179): Don’t bother. He’s the most narrow-minded kid on this site. Arguing with him as effective as trying to chop down a tree with angel food cake. It isn’t that he’s right (he either never is, or refuses to prove he is when challenged), but too stubborn to budge on anything at all ever. Just give up, because you’ll read “Thanks for playing! :)” until your eyes start bleeding. I just decided to ignore all his fantasy-world rants and let him live in his. Let’s put it like this: There are much nicer, more respectful, and (key adjective right here) smarter atheists on this site. I like a bunch of them. This guy ‘get a clue’ thinks he is clever, when in reality he is a close-minded jerk off. The phrase “he be trollin'” comes to mind. The more you know!

  • WhiteDragon

    @ianz09 (185): lol, thanks for the heads up! ;) but fyi…you’ve never seen MY angel food cake…it’s hard enough to chop a piece of concrete in half…LOL

  • Ed

    @White Dragon (184) — In that case, congratulations; you have a clearer grasp on the point than those that do pick and choose. I am still a little confused as to why you thought my original point was directed against you personally, though, when I was speaking to the more general problem that you and I seem now to agree on. I guess “it’s kind of ignorant” was directed at the pickers and choosers rather than me? If so, my apologies. But people do tend to pick and choose–that was my only point.

  • WhiteDragon

    @Ed (187): No I wasn’t taking it personally. In hindsight the “it’s kind of ignorant” was originally directed at you because it sounded like you were saying basically, “if it’s not in red ink it doesn’t matter”. Now that I know what you mean yes it’s directed to the pickers and choosers and not to you…if I’m allowed to do that. lol ;)

  • jreddy666

    Don’t forget kassiedill2 on youtube

  • Maggot

    @The Truth (127): The bible condemes Homosexuality period.

    Point being?

    dont assume you know better than anyone else. God’s message is clear.

    More presumptuous words were never spoken.

  • Tom Wang

    @Mr. gale (92): I second the motion.

  • Steelman

    I’m just amazed at all of the people here who come from the “Church of Low Self-Esteem.” Those are the ones who find it necessary to put down religion, Christianity, faith, etc. to counter their own feelings of self-doubt.

  • Denizen

    I agree with BravehisTickle, I think it is appropriate for everyone to hear “slanderous stuff about their religion.” I have heard way too many people dismiss religion on the grounds of being fuel to radical fanatics for people to manipulate others for (insert all the evils done by these ten people here) so it is important to know where they are coming from and clarify if not correct their point of view so they understand that those actions were the person’s actions and not the religion itself. Great list, very informative, good tone, and thank you again Flamehorse.

  • someguy

    10 down, 2.1 Billion to go!

  • get a clue

    @White Dragon:
    Thanks for responding with a sense of humor…good to take it and dish it out; always better than whining.
    Keep up the good work! Your funny. ;-)

    P.S.–I don’t believe in zombies or Jesus.

  • nerdlette

    The sad truth, however, is that it is not simply these few men who have given Christianity a bad name. Everyday (that is not to say EVERY Christian) Christians perpetuate these stereotypes of fanaticism by aggressively denouncing the lifestyles of others. These people’s credibilities are even further tarnished once one comes to realize that they are all-too-often SELECTIVELY choosing to follow and preach Biblical values. Dropping the scriptures about the evil that is woman in favor of the evils of homosexuality…Oh yes, this is because the women’s rights movement already won. Ignoring the bits about loving thy neighbour but taking up the cause of condemnation…

    And this is typical. It is not even rare to find a Christian who has, on many occasions, been guilty of religious hypocrisy.

    That being said, I am not ignorant of the existence of a much more tolerant, kindly faction of Christians, but as with any other issue of this nature, the more fanatically religious are almost invariably more vocal, and therefore, will continue to prolong Christian stereotypes.

  • Andree

    I thought Jim Jones would have been number one. (:

  • Orthag

    Christianity doesn’t need any help getting a bad name, it does that all by it self. oh, and it is the root of all evil.

  • The Truth

    at nerdlette (196) I agree that the stubborn “we’re saved, your’re not” christians make it difficult for other people to even explore Christianity, BUT at the end of the day – they are right.
    Either you accept Jesus or you don’t and if you choose not to then you better get ready to listen to people celebrate that they have, and more often or not the Christians that try and “recruit” you are doing you a favor at the end of the day.

    I guess we will all find out the consequences to our actions in the afterlife, but just consider for a second what if the message of Christianity is true? What do you think will happen to you when you die?

  • Scratch

    @The Truth (199):

    How is an eternal punishment justified by a finite sin?

  • trfan

    Christianity is a beautiful religion, but it’s the extremists who cause the problems. Just like the terrorists who murder people by the dozens, hundreds, and thousands give a bad name to the beautiful Islamic religion. I admire both religions (I’m Catholic, BTW) and Judaism, but I’m concerned how extremists damage the public view of the religion, taking away from its inherent beauty.

  • Kuban8r

    I find it hard not to get frustrated with people who condemn my faith by saying that I am dumb for blindly following Jesus not knowing for sure if he exists.

    I get equally frustrated by the dimwits featured in this list as they have used the message of Christ to back their own sadistic and horrific motives.

    I don’t want to debate this heavily, but please allow me to express what I think is a fair truce between believers and non-believers (in Christ).

    The message of Christ is not a bad thing. I was tought to accept others, forgive them for things they do wrong and love unconditionally. If someone chooses to hurt me, and they do it over and over again, I was taught to pray for them and try to forgive them. I was taught respect for my fellow man (and woman) and that I should try and be the best at what I do.
    This is the message of Christ. It teaches me to live a good life and that life after death goes on in a wonderful place called Heaven. However, I should not forget that I need to live a good life on Earth first.

    I understand people that get frustrated at the Christians mentioned in post #199, the pushy ones that force their religion on you. I think they do just as bad of a job representing God as the people featured in this list.
    If some of you people posting terrible things about Christ and Christians can understand that their are passionate Christians who believe in being saved and believe in good, then us Christians can accept that you don’t believe without judgement. I will pray for you, and hope that someday you decide to believe in God, but I will not judge you for not doing so.

    Is that fair?

  • The Truth

    At Scratch (#200):
    can you ellaborate? I don’t undertand your question. How is eternal punishment justified by sin? Don’t you mean that the other way around?

  • Jay Poe

    @The Truth (199): You are an idiot. How could you possibly think that you and your religion is correct and all others are wrong? Are you that ignorant?

    So I guess about 4 billion people or roughly 70% of the worlds population is going to hell because they don’t accept Jesus.

    People like you are the ones that turn people away. I’m truly happy that you “think” you are going to heaven because you accept Jesus.

  • Regardless of what the bible says about gay people and whether it is a sin…who are you to tell people what they can and can’t do? Everyone should be allowed to chose who they want to be with whether they it be opposite or same sex.

    As one poster said earlier it is ridiculously hypocritical to accuse homosexuals of being sinners when you probably “sin” in some form each day. I don’t know a lot about Christianity in terms of what the sins are, but I know that if you still maintain your negative view of homosexuals than you should believe all the crazy things the bible says (ex: stoneing children).

    Religion can be a very good thing, but it should be a personal thing and people should not try to impose their beliefs on others. I am not gay, nor am I Christian. I am Jewish and am religious. However this does not mean I take everything from the torah literally. I take it all with a grain of salt and if its something as absurd as homosexuality being wrong…then i quickly dismiss that as something i believe.

    No one knows what happens when you die, and no one should worry about it. No matter what religion you are, just be a good person and treat other people with respect and thats all anyone can do. Help as many people as you can and be as selfess as you can. Religion is just a guide, and if we take it too literally we end up with people like the ones on this list or people like the KKK and the Nazis…and no one wants that.

  • Good Wolf

    This list implies homosexuality is wrong or is a sin in a few places, though I’m not terribly certain that’s intentional, but it kinda erked me.

    I’m not terribly sure you can give Christianity a bad name. It’s one of a trio of truly despicable, evil, monstrous, murderous, hateful, misogynist, homophobic, child mutilating, totalitarian regimes packaged in the form of divine light.

    And what would you expect of religions spawned in some of the most backwards parts of the mid-east? It’s quite transparently and shamelessly invented as it goes along. They say that if rocks had gods, those gods would be stone. Man makes gods in his own image and likeness, with man’s own opinions, attitudes and values. And it’s no wonder, the god of the bible, particularly in the old testament, seems oblivious to the world outside of the desert.

    Frankly we might as well have a list on top 10 people who give fascism a bad name.

    • Thank you for an immensely intelligent and edifying post. You have something most religious people lack, and that is the courage to succinctly and one-dimensionally summarize three milennia of religious history without bothering to get caught up in the minor details.

      I completely agree with you that the religions which gave us the Song of Songs, the concepts of compassion and charity, St. Peter's Cathedral, the 10 Commandments, algebra, Bach's Mass in B Minor, and modern philosophy are completely evil and worthless. I also think you're right to say that the religion of St. Augustine, St Thomas, Galileo, Michelangelo, Descartes, Leibniz, and Mozart (just to take a tiny sample exclusively from the world of Christianity) has never contributed any useful people to society. Let's immediately reinstitute all the great ancient institutions which were stifled once those narrow-minded Christians gained a foothold in the West — infanticide, pederasty, gladiatorial combat, and slavery. Some people might object to that, but they're clearly just pawns of, like, the Fascists, man. (Speaking of which, do you happen to know what Mussolini's religious views were?)

  • Armodillotron

    The Bible is a gutter-book. Anyone ever read the Bible? It`s full of contradictory shite, and horror stories. rape, murder, beheadings, cannibalism, ripping babies out of women, collecting foreskins.. it`s horrible. Why people believe in an all-loving God, I`ll never know.

  • The Truth

    At Jay Poe (204)
    nowhere in my post states that I think all other religions are wrong. I guess your religion teaches you to assume. I simply said that we will all find out in the end.

    and actually… you kind of proved my point. So what there are 4 billions people (the majority) of the planet that dont believe in Christ. That doesn’t change anything… the numbers dont matter. The majority of Texas (check the stats, Im not assuming… Im stating fact) believe that capital punishment is right does that make it right?

    I dont care if 99% of the world population doesn’t believe in Christ, good for them. Whats your point?

  • Forsythia

    @63jax (21):

    I have been a proud “nature and universe offending” since 1980. F you nature. Take that.

  • ianz09

    @Kuban8r (202): Narrow minds will funnel that compromise right into the file cabinet under “N” for “No Way”. Most will ignore what you had to say. Although I liked it.

  • Kuban8r

    At Josh Ober (205)

    I believe there is a huge difference between religion and faith. I think that you and I are in the same boat that we have faith in God, but we have our differences on religion. You can take what you want from religion, but I dont think people should take what they want from faith.

    As an example, I don’t believe you can kill in the name of God because you are killing someone who resists him. Killing is a terrible sin and cannot be justified. Even if you kill someone in self defence, you should ask forgivness for what you have done. Im sure that will irk some people, but like I said… I am not here to debate. I am an accepting Christian and I will respect other opinions.

  • Good Wolf

    @Forsythia (209):
    I can drink to that! It’s pretty rough growing up bisexual in a fundamentalist environment. But fuck’em, I don’t care! :P

  • Maggot

    @The Truth (199): “we’re saved, your’re not” christians make it difficult for other people to even explore Christianity, BUT at the end of the day – they are right.

    Says who?

    more often or not the Christians that try and “recruit” you are doing you a favor at the end of the day.

    Wouldn’t you say that’s being a little arrogant and presumptuous?

    I guess we will all find out the consequences to our actions in the afterlife

    What makes you so sure that there’s a so-called “afterlife”?

    consider for a second what if the message of Christianity is true? What do you think will happen to you when you die?

    Why should people consider that message more so than any other?

  • Dan

    I got news for you; the Bible is not God’s message, its man’s message that’s been attributed to God by man. I think God has got one hell of a good libel lawsuit on his hands. I wonder if he needs a lawyer?

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (211):
    Killing being unjustifiable is an irrational position. Frankly if morals come from god, instead of having evolved as our brains grew, then I think god would be more reasonable about right and wrong, ie. that right and wrong actually BE reasonable – like in self defence or defence of others, euthanasia and self sacrifice.

  • oouchan

    @Dan (214): Considering all of them are in hell…he might have a hard time with that. :)

  • Scratch

    @The Truth (203):

    The preposition “by” should have been a “for.”

    How is eternal punishment justified for a finite sin?

  • Jay Poe

    @The Truth (208): Your comment, “I agree that the stubborn “we’re saved, you’re not” Christians make it difficult for other people to even explore Christianity, BUT at the end of the day – they are right.”

    You are clearly saying that Christians are right when they say they are saved when the rest are not. So if you are right, the others are wrong.

    “you better get ready to listen to people celebrate that they have, and more often or not the Christians that try and “recruit” you are doing you a favor at the end of the day.”

    So they are doing us a favor? C’mon, really. They are doing me a favor because I have to start believing in Jesus if I want a ticket to heaven.

    I just stated the numbers because you are pretty much condemning a lot of people to hell because they don’t agree with you.

    Your name even is, “the truth”. I don’t know how I assumed that you think the other religions are wrong.

  • The Truth

    At Maggot (213)

    1. Well, we would have to get into a debate that I believe Christ’s message is true, so lets agree to disagree.

    2. Not if we are right.

    3. Maybe theres not. My question was simply: consider if the message of Christ is right. Maybe you are incapable of doing that, and thats fine.

    4. We are not discussing any other messages or any other faiths. Call me ignorant but I really don’t know the ramifications that other faiths carry with them. However, I do know that vast majority of religions maintain there is some kind of punishment in the afterlife for living a bad life on Earth. Many religions carry that message… so lets see what happens after death I guess.

  • Kuban8r

    At Good Wolf (215)

    Sorry, I should have been more clear.
    I do believe it is irrational to broadstroak killing as a sin and thats the end of it.
    I mean you don’t have to look very far to find out that’s not the message of the bible: God sent his only son to be brutally murdered in order to save mankind.. there is no doubt that murder can be justified at times.

    I was simply trying to state that if you do take another life, I think you still need to ask for forgiveness for that act. And honestly, I don’t think anyone is capable of killing somone without having to come to terms with it regardless of what the reasons were.

  • Dan

    Oouchan, True. We could hold court in hell. It may be more in God’s favor that way. Satan seems to be the only one that scares the shit out of these Christians!!

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (220):

    Well just to say; god allegedly sending himself down in a human shell to be sacrificed to himself as a way to forgive his creation for doing what comes naturally to it is not assumed here.

    Why would you need to ask forgiveness if you didn’t do anything wrong, regardless of how hard it would be to perhaps cope with, that’s irrelevant?

  • The Truth

    at Jay Poe…

    Obviously you and I won’t agree. Sorry, I believe that I follow Christ’s message and that I will be in heaven one day. I believe that as strongly as you believe I am foolish for doing so.

    I wont be able to convice you, but I do know alot of people take the “i dont need any make believe God to tell me how to live my life and dangle this carrot called Heaven in my face… Im not a puppet” stance and to be honest I think that is just being stubborn. You want to go to Hell (if it exists) because you are stubborn?

    Even if you choose not to follow Christ, at least have faith in something… and don’t say I have faith in me and my family and being a good person. That’s a cop out for turning a deaf ear to any kind of faith.

  • ianz09

    @The Truth (199): more often or not the Christians that try and “recruit” you are doing you a favor at the end of the day.

    No. Not at all. One of my friend’s church keeps track of people they ‘save’. They actually put up banners every year with the year’s tally of total people who have accepted Christ due to them. They set goals and quotas for saving people. They treat it like it is a fundraiser. They go door knocking, and my friend has told me that for every ten doors they knock on, half will slam the door in their face, 3-4 will politely hear them out, and 1-2 may accept the invite to the church, and if they are lucky, those who show up will continue to show up and consider themselves saved. Then they become a tally on a rather expensive banner (paid for entirely with tithes, mind you). They brag about the “500 saved this year!” but fail to mention the 2,000 who will never step foot in a church because of the audacious and arrogant way Christianity was represented to them. As a Christian myself, I will say, those that try to recruit do no favors to anyone.

    It reminds me of the day I got pinned upstairs by Jehovah’s Witnesses. They just kept knocking… They almost saw me through the window. Just… Kept… Knocking…. Didn’t help I had the house to myself, and therefore felt it was appropriate to run around the house all day in my boxers. And only my boxers.

  • tzopilotl

    …the bible, the torah, the koran: can we throw them away and give everybody monopoly sets as a recompense?
    then we can be sincere about out wars and not bother
    with religious fiddle-faddle.

  • Armodillotron

    Kuban8r, The Bible doesn`t say it`s a sin to kill people. It says killing people is fine. In Deuteronomy 7:10, God tells the Israelites, to kill, every man, woman and child, of any city they invade, and utterly destroy the city. And in Two Kings 2:23-25, God sends two She-Bears to maul to death children, who had called a man “baldhead.” God is peaceful? Yeah right.

  • Z0mgZ0rs

    The bible contains terrible moral codes. Christianity does not teach a good message, but you wouldn’t know that since religion is a brainwashing and you’ve been “cleansed” amirite?

  • Kuban8r

    ok… I used it as an example just to show that justified killing can take place.

    To answer your question – first off I don’t believe sin comes naturally to humans. I believe that free will comes naturally to us and that some humans choose to commit acts of sin with that free will.

    Let’s face it. sin takes place all of the time, I sinned twice today I think… or maybe just once (I joke)faith in Christ teaches you that you can sin, but that you should learn from it, and ask to be forgiven.
    Obviously some acts of sin are regarding as being more serious than others, and that is a hard pill to swallow for non believers. I believe it is similar to crimial acts – some carry different punishments than others.

    One of the core beliefs of Christianity is that you forgive others, and that you yourself ask to be forgiven when you have done something wrong – more importantly than you learn from it.

    Not sure if that makes sense. I am supsecting that you and I differ on our acceptance of Faith… I may be willing to accept it because I have seen it and felt it in my own life. I hope you choose to believe in Christ, but everyone is free to live their life the way they want.

    I’m not trying to drop this great conversation, but I am late for a witch burning (again I joke… its an appointment) but I will be back another time.

  • Kuban8r

    Sorry.. above message was directed at Good Wolf.

  • General Tits Von Chodehoffen

    If you look long enough you can use the bible to justify anything, so save yourself some time and do whatever you damn well please.

  • Good Wolf

    @Dan (221): @Kuban8r (228):

    I was a christian for most of my life. No I won’t believe it anymore because I’ve no reason to.

    Also if free will comes naturally to humans (which it doesn’t, there is no such thing) and if [Freewill -> killing], then killing is natural. And it would be logically, we evolved as another form of ape in competition with ourselves and other species – killing to the end of self defence and the need for food must occur.

  • Good Wolf

    @Good Wolf (231):
    sorry dan, that wasn’t directed at you.

  • mulletslayer


    Could a Zombie Jesus turn water into braaaaaaaains?

  • Kuban8r

    at 226 Armodillotron:

    The bible can be twisted around in many ways, and I am obviously not as educated in it as yourself. There are plenty of instances in the bible of brutality, murder, etc. but these situations don’t help shape the message of Christ, they are stories told by men and interpeted by men. I refer more to the founding beliefs of Christianity, that is my message.

    I don’t want to be accused of turning a blind eye to a valid argument. I will check back after I have had a chance to re-read the passages you quoted. This will be my last post of the day, but we can continue a discussion if you want. [email protected]

    Have a good day.

  • Petee

    I’m gay and God wanted me to be this way. I wish I wasn’t, but I can’t hope to be any different that what God has in store for me.

  • Kuban8r

    At Good Wolf (231)

    I suspect something happened in your life where you believed God was not there for you. This is the number 1 reason that people choose to ignore God.

    You are using evolution and the fight to survive as an excuse to justify killing another human being. Sorry, but you can’t pee in public because it comes naturally to you either. Killing is not natural… In no way is killing a human being a natural act.

  • Good Wolf

    @Petee (235):
    Why do you wish you weren;t? being non-hetero is awesome!

  • Kuban8r

    At Petee:

    I applaud you.

  • Petee

    Well, since God made me gay; I’m gonna be the best damn gay on the block!!!

  • @ The Truth

    I respect your opinions and Christian beliefs and have no issue with anyone believing in anything that doesnt harm others. But i have two things:

    1. Just to help you out on some other religions and after-life: I am Jewish and Judaism is pretty vague on the after-life although there are definately hints at it. One thing (at least in my version of Judaism, which is reform/conservative, we do not believe in hell. We do believe in heaven as Christians do, and some believe in purgatory but not in the same way as Christians. Hope that helps inform you a bit on that.

    2. I understand the bible says, just as does the torah, that many things are wrong. But don’t you think that we can use our own judgements on certain things now that it is over 2,000 years later? Take gay marriage or homosexuality in general. No one knew back then what is know today about how it isn’t this “choice” everyone makes it out to be…so can’t we all just let people be happy? With gay marriage, what i dont understand is how it affects other people if gay’s are allowed to marry. I mean its not like they print on your marriage certificate “this certificate is diminished because homosexuals can marry.”

    p.s. I dont mean that 2nd part as an attack because honestly i have no idea what your opinion on the topic is, just wanted to see what you think…

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (236):

    No nothing happened in my life other than struggling to understand my religion and reading the bible. I came to the inescapable conclusion that it’s hard to understand because it doesn’t make sense from start to finish. Also faith itself is a highly irrational concept.

    To understand the world, I know science can paint a logical but unfortunately incomplete explanation.

    No I’m not using evolution to justify killing a human being (I’ll let the circumstances determine that), but you can’t ignore the fact that killing each other is a natural consequence of being a biological organism in a highly competitive environment. Humans are just animals as biology, psychology and neurology has established.

  • HighProteinDiet

    These men should not even call themselves men of God, as they clearly don’t even consider to follow His word. God chooses His desciples wisely, but there is a difference between that and giving us a bad reputaion like this, such as with hate, racism, idiocracy, and other sometimes common beliefs about Christianity assumed by the actions of these idiots. Jesus saves, and certainly not Fred Phelps. May God help us….

  • Petee

    @Good Wolf (237): Well actually I like being gay, but I’m told that it is wrong by some of my Christian aquaintances.

  • Good Wolf

    @Petee (243):
    I don’t think I can blame them. I don’t think that homosexuality or bisexuality (me) is wrong, however you’re in an unfortunate religion to be gay because as best as I can understand the text, it does say that it’s wrong – not that that position can be justified.

  • Sky

    The Universe is a pretty big place. :)

  • Maggot

    @The Truth (219): Well, we would have to get into a debate that I believe Christ’s message is true

    Of course I can’t debate what someone believes to be true. My point is – believing something to be true does not make it true. So to act as though it is unquestionably true starts the person’s resultant argument off on shaky ground before even getting out of the gate.

    Not if we are right.

    I find that pontificating based on “what if” scenarios to be kind of silly. How is that “doing me a favor”? There is an infinite number of what-ifs that can be dreamed up.

    consider if the message of Christ is right. Maybe you are incapable of doing that, and thats fine.

    Ok I’ve considered it. Now what? Are you capable of considering that it is wrong? Really though, I’m just saying/asking – why consider it at all? Just because it sounds good?

    However, I do know that vast majority of religions maintain there is some kind of punishment in the afterlife for living a bad life on Earth.

    I don’t disagree with that statement. My point is – so what?

    so lets see what happens after death I guess

    Personally, I’d prefer to be a “good person” because that’s how I want to live my life and be thought of by my family, friends, and peers. Not because I’m in fear of some otherwise unsubstantiated belief in possible post-death damnation.

    @The Truth (223): Even if you choose not to follow Christ, at least have faith in something…and don’t say I have faith in me and my family and being a good person. That’s a cop out for turning a deaf ear to any kind of faith.

    I have “faith” in science and logic. Exploration of things that can be empirically evidenced and proven (or disproven, as the case may be), as opposed to just having blind faith in something for lack of a better answer or because it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. How’s that?

  • Bill Rooker

    Amazing to me that none of the Inquisitors made this list. ’10 people who gave modern Christianity a bad name’ would have been a better title. Great list, though

  • Petee

    @Good Wolf (244): So, in other words, if I continue with this religion, I must assume that I am going to hell; if I interpret the Bible correctly.

  • bucslim

    Funny how the internet gives us all an outlet to be a horse’s ass. We all point fingers at the people on the list, yet judging by the comments a lot of us are acting the same way. Between allegations that people suck for believing in Jesus and other people suck because they don’t, I’m wondering if we all act like this in our daily lives.

    Would I presume to be a snotty religious jerk if whoever I was typing this to were standing in front of me? And conversely would I be an insufferable know-it-all wiseass to a Christian if I was in a conversation with them?

    Telling somebody they’re an idiot because they have faith is just as arrogant as me trying to jam my King James down your throat. Seriously, from all of these comments we’re acting like a bunch of ignorant, humorlous mooks with no sense of respect or humanity. Can’t we leave that to the ten who were listed and go get a latte and a snickerdoodle?

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ve got a mountain of evidence against me as an isufferable wise-ass know it all jerknozzle, I know. You’re all going to hell if you don’t join bucslim’s Church o’ Snark. Better that than the Missouri Synod version of bucslim’s Church o’ Snark, those people are insane.

  • ianz09

    @bucslim (249): Damn. Good comment

  • Good Wolf

    @Petee (248):

    Well no, what religion you decide to follow doesn’t have any bearing on reality. Reality has no obligation to conform to what we want to be. But if it were somehow true then yes, you and me both.

    But it’s irrationality makes me hopeful; it’s easy to see that it’s man deifying his on opinions and prejudices and putting them on paper in the mad of god. I’m not convinced, I find it very difficult to believe that a god would be very biased to one group of people so arbitrarily.

  • Good Wolf

    @Good Wolf (251):
    in the name of god*

  • Maggot

    @bucslim (249): Funny how the internet gives us all an outlet to be a horse’s ass.

    I find it a little presumptuous of you to insinuate that a horse’s ass is my ass of choice.

  • Z0mgZ0rs

    Ok, I have actually read the list.
    10. Moon made the mistake of preaching against homosexuals instead of converting them? Preaching against them is bad, but trying to actually change their lifestyle or else they go to hell is a good thing. He made the mistake of not interfering with homosexuals lifestyles? This is idiocy and bigotry at its best OP.
    This isn’t as important, but people should know that Moon also founded the Washington Times.
    9. Koresh impregnated a girl when he was 15? As if Christians don’t have sex and are pure? Hahaha. Well, you forgot to mention Koresh became a born again Christian later on (not that this should ever excuse anyone’s behavior, past or future). You must have forgotten a couple details.
    Also, who the hell is Karen Doyle? That came out of nowhere.
    8. Pretty solid on Pat Robertson, but the grammar is killing me.
    7. Grammar
    6. Atheism vs. Christianity isn’t a fair fight. Christians continuously make an ass of themselves in any sort of debate.
    More conversion BS.
    He’s officially OUT OF PRISON? LULWUT? He’s in a maximum security prison until 2037!!!
    5. meh
    4. And stop starting your sentences with conjunctions! It’s unprofessional.
    3. But you like conjunctions right?
    And please use the power of Jesus to help you spell and use proper grammar.
    2. I don’t care about this person so I won’t read.
    1. 13-4 is 9, because, you, didn’t, have, anything, intellectual, to add, about, “their” 9 siblings. Comma.
    Phelps “loves” gay people more than anyone on the planet. It’s BS, but they are saving them from going to hell. Whoa whoa whoa, they’re doing that “conversion” thing that you’ve been preaching right?

  • Petee

    @Good Wolf (251): Wow…This is getting confusing. So what you are saying, I think, is that God would not make me gay, then condemn me to hell for being what he created?

  • Petee

    I can see that, that would not make any sense. But, according to my Christian friends, that’s exactly what is happening.

  • bucslim

    @Maggot (253):

    Assinuating the assumption that an equine ass would have you. That’s pre-rumpsuous of you. Butt I digress. . .

    Be happy you get any ass, ass.

    P.S. Do you pronunce your name like a french Mahj-shay?

    Eagerly awaiting your reply. . .

  • Good Wolf

    @Petee (255):

    Well perhaps he would. He might be a psychopath who loves to see the innocent suffer. Otherwise, no. He couldn’t send you to hell for something he did to you, that’s pretty much the opposite of just behaviour.

    However there are plenty of humans who think being gay is gross and you gladly persecute you for it, perhaps they would will you to hell also – and perhaps they’d write it in a book. Perhaps the author of Leviticus was like these scum bags on this list.

    Like I said, I don’t buy it that god hates fags – that’s silly.

    I mean if there’s any evidence that a god can not consider homosexuality wrong then it’s the numerous ALL-FEMALE species of lizard which use gay courtship and sex to help along the parthenogenesis process.

    It’s one of those odd occurrences in nature where evolution has defied sense.

    Google search “Aspidoscelis tellesata”

  • bucslim

    @ianz09 (250):


  • Billy Joe McStankerton

    Christianity is intrinsically bad, as it preaches the message that humans are deserving of eternal hellfire from birth because a naked woman was tricked into eating fruit by a talking snake 6000 years ago. However, this can be avoided because God sent Jesus to be tortured and executed to forgive people of their sins, when really God could have just FORGAVE people with no torture involved. When will people just discard this hateful superstition?
    p.s. All of the good moral teachings of christianity were around long before it existed, as Confucious authored the “golden rule” centuries before Jesus was said to have existed.

  • Good Wolf

    Or better yet, go to and search gay animals. I watch an extract from a fascinating documentary about homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

  • Petee

    I don’t understand why my Christian friends preach that all humans are sinners and Jesus has died for our sins, yet when I sin they jump all over me like I’m the only one doing it.

  • cindy

    @Petee (262): maybe it’s time for some new friends?

  • deeeziner

    The bunk beds that the Heaven’s Gate followers were found dead in were sold online for about $500 each.

    There is also currently deeds to property purchased by Jim Jones being sold online for over $10,000.

  • therush

    Thanks a lot listverse. I’ve always found everything Robertson said deplorable then you show a quote of his that I completely agree with. Because fuck Ariel Sharon, one of the worst people of the last two decades. And before everyone jumps on me, being anti-Israeli does not translate into antisemitism.

  • Good Wolf

    @Petee (262):

    It’s not the sin. Christianity, like many other religions, is obsessed with sex. Somehow, a good, healthy, perfectly natural aspect of being a human has been perverted by the church. This concept of the flesh interprets sexuality as being evil. Boys get circumcisions, girls get equally bad mutilations all in the name of quieting out sex drive. Christianity ever since Rome converted to it, has fostered anti-homosexuality into our very culture so much so that even now, we are still getting over it and rebuilding a healthy attitude towards sex.

    Your friends get condemn you for homosexuality because to them, it’s of the worst sins, an abomination – but they’re wrong and will probably refuse to see reason.

  • Chuckles

    As someone else noted, we’ll be waiting for the list of “10 People Who Give Islam a Bad Name.” Go for it. If you don’t then you’re just a Christian bashing coward.

  • Alexander

    Horrible people, all of them. But, being a christian, I’ll do my best to love them anyway. I guess the fact that I’m certain I won’t succeed makes me a bit of a bad christian.

    I wanted to add to what was already stated about leviticus’damning homosexuality. Yes, indeed jesus rendered the old testament unimportant by telling the world that there were new rules from the time of hos birth. But even then…. leviticus didn’t really literally talk about homosexuality being an abomination: It’s about men sleeping with men promiscuously. Yes, that’s a homosexual act, but there’s nothing said about two men who know eachother intimitely, and love eachother. What I mean to say is: The act that is called an abomination is just the homosexual version of multiple promiscuous heterosexual acts being equally comdemned. It’s about the context in which these men want to sleep with eachother, not about the both of them being men.
    And indeed, when god, in a later part of leviticus, sums up the reasons he smote gomorra, he doesn’t even mention the gay sex.

    And all that reamains of all of this, in the new testament, is that “thou shalt not covet”.

  • Kerri

    @Hodari (137): So what? Is that supposed to be a big deal?

  • Shannon

    Okay, I get weary of people blathering on about the inconsistencies in the bible and how the Old Testament is a bunch of hooey. Here’s the problem . . . people don’t READ the Bible, they WRENCH the Bible. The Bible is the story of God’s interaction with man. For some reason, people seem to get fired up whenever they find something in the Bible that doesn’t support their choices, lifestyle or otherwise. You can’t do that.

    In Genesis, God created a family that, by the end of the book became a nation — the Jewish nation.

    In Exodus, that nation strays from God and is enslaved, then redeemed.

    Then Leviticus comes along . . . folks, Christians were never meant to follow the rules of Leviticus. Here’s the deal — the Jews were SUPPOSED to be a nation of priests to the world. They were supposed to show people what faith in God was all about and what it could do. Therefore, they were supposed to be DIFFERENT. The law about eating pork? EVERYONE ate pork. Pigs are COMMON and the Jewish Nation was called to be DIFFERENT. The old chestnut about a garment of blended fabric? EVERYONE used blends because it was easy. The Jewish nation was meant to be different so their garments were supposed to be PURE. Same thing for the laws concerning women, sex, menustration, homosexuality, etc., etc. The Jews were supposed to be DIFFERENT from all the surrounding nations and had they followed all the commands in the Law, they would have been different. Unfortunately, they failed miserably. They could not follow the Law themselves and so they became just like everyone else.

    So, in the process of time, God sent his Son, Jesus to be The Christ. He was the God Man who lived the Law as it was meant to be lived and who never sinned. That way, when, inevitably, he was executed by the Romans (not the Jews as so many people claim) His Blood could serve as a sacrifice once for all time reconciling the problem of man’s alienation from God.

    I could go on, but Hell, I’m going to get flamed just for this much so I’ll stop here.

  • Alexander

    @ 267 chuckles:

    why? saying there are people who give christianity a bad name, doesn’t mean you’re saying christianity is bad. It means that every good thing can be perverted by bastards like these ten people. Actually, it would be a whole lot more insulting if this was a list of ten people who gave christianity a good name.

  • Good Wolf

    @Alexander (268):

    “A man shall not lay with a man as he lays with a woman.”

    Where is the mention of promiscuity? It looks pretty cut and dry.

  • SgtDonuts

    i have to say even though im very tolerant towards gays, that Phelps shouldnt be #1. he hasnt been responsible for any killings and his group is very small. the emotional distress issue puts him aroung 6 for me.

  • Petee

    @cindy (263): I think I’m going to give up religion altogether for I fear that I will be harassed and persecuted anywhere I turn. I don’t think religion is my friend.

  • Gabriel

    Search for “Inri Cristo” on Google and you’ll find out about this crazy guy, who dresses himself as Jesus, and says to everyone that he is him. He is pretty famous here in Brazil, because he is always going to TV shows and stuff…

  • Kennypo65

    It’s funny how the ways of God are mysterious. The faithful can’t explain why He kills infants, or why He sends hurricanes and earthquakes. But if two people love each other very much, and they happen to be the same gender; then His message is crystal clear. It’s an abomination. Shut the hell up! Good men will do good. Evil men will do evil. But religion will make good men do evil.

  • Kennypo65

    BTW I am an atheist.

  • heatherrr.

    number one sounds like real life trolls, starved for attention

    @chuckles – i wonder who would top a list like that

  • deeeziner

    @louwandy (279):

    Wow. Just wow. :(

  • Arsnl

    For all you people debating here if religion is good or bad:
    i have a more useful problem for you to consider (if you people are keen on wasting your energy). Is koch snowflake a manifold? If it is what would be the isomorphism? My guess no, but i wavent considered exotic induced topologies. Only the real plane.
    Real food for thought.

  • Charles

    Living your life without a safety net is hard ( I mean living without the belief in Jesus, God, and Heaven.) There’s no other entity than the christian church that makes the claim of necessary salvation. God always wins. How can the dead come back and tell us otherwise. Imagine how terrifying this would be, and is to some people?
    I remember when i was younger when I actually took all these things seriously. I strived to feel God’s presence. Eventually after feeling no “calling” (behold I stand at the door and knock), I simply gave up, when my life could not follow this half-assed attempt to live up to perfection. I ran out of time.
    There’s enough people in the world for everyone to follow the path of their choosing. Of course some people will believe these crazy things. How sad it is too how people will distance themselves over these beliefs.

  • tasmanian devil

    The statement that Moon doesn’t try to convert gays from homosexuality is a disgrace. Homosexuals are born gay, they cannot be converted but only forced to go against their true feelings. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice. This is a lie conjured by the church to explain homosexuality i.e that gays choose to be gay because apparently God doesn’t like gays or couldn’t make such a mistake when creating the universe. The author of this list has obviously been brainwashed with christian propaganda. If anyone should be converted it is christians to reason and logic.

  • Bruce Godfrey

    Hale is definitely NOT a Christian by any definition of the term. He is an explicit rejector of Christianity as is his racist “World Church of the Creator.” A better example of giving Christianity (as opposed to the whole human race) a bad name is Martin Luther, who penned “On the Jews and their Lies” in which he recommended mass murder and property expropriation against Jews – suggestions later followed by Hitler.

  • Dennis

    You forgot Hitler, George W. Bush, James Dobson, and John Ashcroft. Hitler was Catholic, and his anti-Semitism was about on parr with conservative Christianity in 20th century Germany.
    And yes, the Bible condemns homosexuality (in Leviticus, 1 Timothy, Romans, and 1 Corinthians). It also justifies genocide (Joshua), killing your children (Deuteronomy), and human trafficking (Leviticus again).
    Christianity is a violent faith. It depends upon non-violent people. Every religion has a seed of good as well as evil in it. What matters is the character of the believers. Even the devil can quote scripture to suit his own ends.

  • DTX08

    You could count almost every social right wing republican as someone who give christianity a bad name.

  • DTX08

    gives** #286

  • DTX08

    @arsnl #281

    I remember the first time i read wikipedia and websters as well…

  • Jilian

    I agree with #6. These people give Christianity a horrible name, especially because I believe all of them are crazy. I believe that all these people are really not truly Christian, because from what I’ve seen, they don’t even understand the Bible like it should be. No way should you kill homosexuals, or sinners. I think they just did what they thought to believe was right. Not only that, but they give the entire human race a horrible name, and bring disgrace.

  • Interesting list. It’s amazing that these people have followers. I guess some people find it easier to hate than to love. I am from a small southern town, and have often seen the growth of large congregations from hate based hell fire and brimstone preaching. To love others requires effort and often sacrifice. These people are so self serving. It’s nice to see them called out.
    I hate that people view God through the clouded lenses of religion and cultural prejudices. God’s so much bigger than we can imagine. And He shouldn’t be put in a box so that He conforms to boundaries just to make others comfortable.

  • DTX08

    when your base your life on magic and historical fiction books then you get people like this…

  • Good Wolf

    @Jilian (288):

    “they don’t even understand the Bible like it should be.”

    Not to be an ass but you can’t say what the right way to understand the bible is anymore than they can. That’s the problwm with the book.

  • GiantFlyingRobo

    @get a clue (94):
    1. They forgot the date, so they just got lazy and put it on different days every year. And either way, Christians have horrible memory. Heck, we even forgot Jesus’ actual birthday too!
    2. They didn’t have any, they just died. See, that was only God’s 1st try at humanity.
    3. It’s not evil, just venomous.
    4. Because Noah was a BADASS, that’s how.
    5. Eh, God’s kind of a couch potato.
    6. Jesus change his mind at the last minute that he wanted to be zombie. Because zombies are awesome.
    7. Because Judas was an evil, conniving ginger. And everyone gingers have no souls. ‘DUH!

    There. Hope I answered all your questions! ;)

  • Bill

    As a hard-core “Bible-Thumper (I take the Bible Literally),” All I can say is:

    “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
    (Rom 3:23)

    “And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”
    (Joh 8:3-7)

  • Ghost

    @Bill (293):

    You know the story about the adulteress isn’t in the original texts? It’s a later addition to the bible.

  • We have James Dobson, Ted Haggard, and their thousands of lemming-like followers, here in Colorado Springs, Colorado….

    It’s a very scary place for anyone of sound mind.

  • DavidTehGnome

    He blamed the Great Depression on “an international conspiracy of Jewish bankers,” then blamed Communism, the Russian 1917 Revolution, and Marxist atheism on “global Jewry, in its attempt to lead people astray from the perfection of Lord Jesus.”

    Umm, I know it’s not popular, but that IS the truth. Plus I think I’m correct in stating that the Jews as we know them today are descendants of the Pharisee’s (plus a bunch of converts over time I’m sure) who had Jesus Christ killed. Why should I believe they feel any differently about him today than they did over two thousand years ago?

  • Ghost

    @DavidTehGnome (296):

    “who had Jesus Christ killed.”

    It was God’s plan for jesus to die, and being that J and G are the same entity, you can’t blame his suicide on the Jews.

  • sirMouse

    Sorry, too lazy to read through all the comments before posting. Will do it later.

    From what I’ve heard from the bible-admittedly not much-it’s sodomy that’s a sin, rather than homosexuality. The definition of ‘sodomy’ is something along the lines of non-coital sexual interaction. That’s not word for word, but it’s along the lines. So really, God hates foreplay.

    Just something to think about…

  • DTX08

    @ DAvidTheGnome

    “Why should I believe they feel any differently about him today than they did over two thousand years ago?”


    you answered your own question

  • snor

    Great list, it sucks that these christians get so much attention in the news etc.
    most of them aren’t like his.

  • Shanana

    Great list. Fred Phelps definitely belongs on there….evil little asshat. God doesn’t hate anyone, and you sir will be burning in hell for all eternity, with your family.
    Their signs do amuse me at times.
    Gotta admit that the Obama with horns is kinda funny. I dont understand how they think anyone else will believe the crap they spew, or even take them seriously. Especially with their “you will eat your babies” and “god hates lady gaga” campaigns.

  • Voltaire

    “10 People Who Give Christianity a Bad Name” and

    I’m an Atheist but I wonder why it’s always Christianity you attack while on the other hand you trivialize far more dangerous ideologies like Islam for example.

    My favorite is this list:

    This is one of its “misconceptions”:

    “While it is true that he [Mohammad] married a girl that was at the age of nine that does not constitute pedophilia. […] The girl he got married to had reached puberty 3 years before marriage.”


  • Ghost

    @Voltaire (302):

    He’s a christian. Your comment implied you thought he wasn’t so just checking.

  • Teckniq

    Its funny that you mention Father Charles Coughlin. I went to Shrine of the Little FLower, in detriot michigan, from grade school to high school.

    Whats even funnier is that at the parish, we gloss over the fact that he was a rabid anti-semite. We call him “the radio priest”. Only in high school did i learn of his Pro-Nazi adgenda, but in grade school we were taught that he was something to be proud of.

    Interestingly, The original Church for the Shrine of the little Flower was burnt to the ground by the KKK. I find that a tad ironic.

    Im glad he is high on the list.

  • sirMouse

    @Voltaire (302): You do realise you’re being just as bad as anyone who picks on Christians?

    Islam is just as, if not less, violent than Christianity. There is a strict moral code, and not quite so much hate and wrath. Plus, marrying young girls was perfectly normal of the time. Not just in that culture but in many. Historically the onset of puberty is when girls are seen fit to marry.

    Don’t condemn people for insulting something and then go and do the same, yeah?

  • Dr.Nick

    Very nice. But no Kent Hovind? Tisk tisk!

  • Kuro

    God damn, what is with every Christian saying that it is the right way to live?

    Sorry folks, I don’t believe in a God.
    It just won’t happen.
    Many don’t, Atheism is growing in numbers.

    Please, don’t force your religion on me, and I won’t poke holes in all your theories about a “God.”

    Didn’t read the list, sorry.

  • Armodillotron

    I totally disagree with Bruce Godfrey. Martin Luther didn`t give Christianity a bad name. He`d just read the Talmud. a gutter-book, which is full of obscenities. And he thought Jews are like that. Luther was a great man, who changed the world.

  • iknownothing

    Somebody help me out here, i’m confused. Did God become a christian after the death of his son,if so what religion was he prior to this? I am asuming here that he was jewish, also why did becoming a parent suddenly change him (god) into becomming a “nice guy” you know all loving and caring n stuff. Methinks God needed some anger management before the birth of his beautiful bouncing baby boy, I mean just look at how many people he killed or had killed primarily for his own amusement e.g. setting a pack of wolves on children for laughing at a bald man, go figure. In the great God versus Satan debate, god comes out on top as the most single handed murdering entity that has existed: God = 2,301,417 Satan = 10
    There is a further estimate that puts the figure at just over 33 million. I suppose we can always “cop out” and say the old testiment is not to be taken literatly but hey some people live by it.
    Nice work flamehorse even if a little homophobic, me say live and let live, but each to their own I guess.

  • mrserinanderson

    Good list! As a Christian I am constantly astounded by those who call themselves Christians but obviously don’t follow Christ.

  • You mean there’s only 10?

    Notice how many of them are conservative scum bags?

    Sorry if I’m repeating, I didn’t read all the comments…

  • LightenUp

    Even though I was raised Christian (Episcopalian), I don’t currently subscribe to all the Christian orthodoxy, if that isn’t an oxymoron. But I’d have to say to most folks here, including the original posting – Lighten Up! The Crusades lasted hundreds of years, killing countless numbers of non-Christians; Catholic priests (that is, a certain percentage) have molested vast numbers of children; Muslims chop off heads and body parts of accused criminals (including those they acknowledge are not necessarily criminals); atheists (communist Chinese, Soviets, etc.) torture and kill millions without the slightest twinge of conscience; Israelis over-respond in intensive levels to the assaults against them.

    This list? Over all, a relatively harmless group of individuals.

  • iknownothing

    @ghost(312): lol but at least he stopped murdering innocent people

  • shaun

    Wow, there seem to be a lot of normal people on here today. Makes a change.

    Nice list.

  • Strange, I wouldn’t consider any of those people Christian, ‘cept Robertson.

  • Z0mgZ0rs

    @LightenUp (313):
    Did Communist China or Soviet Russia kill people because they were atheist nations? No. Unless they are killing people BECAUSE people believed in religion, it really makes no sense really. If a Christian killed someone because of a bet, and not because of Christianity, then could it be at all valid for someone to use that example against a Christian?

  • Shralp17

    If you really study Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple it was more of a communist cult than a Christian Cult. Jim Jones was a communist and became a pastor to spread his view point. If you listen to the Jonestown Death Tapes people keep on asking when will the Soviets let the emigrate to the USSR. All of the people mentioned a cult leaders and stray far from orthodox Christianity.

  • Ghost

    @iknownothing (314):
    lol. But at what costs? We got him to feck off, but now we’ve got infinite punishment for finite sins.

  • Jones

    This article is shockingly biased. I like articles without ulterior motives.

  • Shannon

    @Good Wolf (291):

    I have to disagree, Wolf. There is no problem with the Bible if people take it as a whole and see it for what it is. The Bible is God’s story. See, people have all these things they “want” the Bible to say to interpret whatever pet view they happen to espouse. It doesn’t work that way. The Bible is God’s attempt to explain Himself to us through the written word. Jesus Christ was and is God’s way of SHOWING Himself to us.

    If more people would simply READ the Bible passage by passage for themselves instead of either yanking a verse or two out of context or simply parroting what some preacher or other said, they might find the Word easier to believe.

    Christianity is a lifestyle of relationship, not religion. No one can “follow all the rules”. It’s impossible for a sinful nature in a fallen world, and I’m sorry, but this world, if nothing else, is fallen. The world is getting WORSE, not better, no matter what people may want to believe. Just a cursory reading of the news is enough to prove that. So forget “following the rules” and instead, follow Christ. It’s not easy by a long shot, but it is easier than trying to conform to a list of “thou shalt nots”.

    I will take Pascal’s Wager all day long just because I choose hope over oblivion. Maybe I will prove to have been a fool in the end, but if that be the case, let it be said that by following the teachings and example of a Crucified Galilean, I left a small corner of the world a better place than I found it.

    Also, and this is nothing more than word play, it is logically impossible to be an atheist. In Greek, “a-” means “not or no” and “theos” means god. So to take atheism to its logical end, one would have to know beyond a shadow of all doubt that no God exists. Since it is just as impossible to prove that God doesn’t exist as it is to prove that He does, it is impossible to be an atheist because no human, by definition, has that kind of absolute knowledge. If anyone did, he or she would, again by definition, BE God. So, agnosticism is the logical course as it denies the ability to prove either camp one way or the other. As I said though, just word play. In day to day usage, the meanings are clear enough.

  • Shannon

    @Z0mgZ0rs (317):
    Actually, and this is provable from historical documents and eyewitness accounts, many thousands of people were killed in the Soviet Union and are still being killed in Communist China for no other reason than their profession of faith and that faith is not limited to Christianity. In China, especially, Christians are killed for their faith right alongside Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and any other religious group.

  • _-DAN-_

    You should make a 10 people that give Christianity a good name list next. This was way interesting though, and number 1 just scares me.

  • Good Wolf

    @Shannon (321):

    Quite incorrect.
    A – no or not
    theism – the belief in God(s)
    theist – individual who believes in god(s)

    Atheism & atheist are not the same as “atheos”.

    It’s not a statement of knowledge: it’s a statement of belief. It feels like there isn’t a single theist in the world who actually knows what an atheist is.

    Here’s how it works.
    We are agnostics in the sense that we are “a”-“gnostic” (to not have knowldge” on the subject of theism. Meaning we do not know that there is no god, we just don’t believe that there is one or we believe that there isn’t one (slightly different but important).

    On to your other points. No matter how you like to play the context card, it doesn’t change the fact that the god of the bible if evil. You guys play the context card when ever it’s pointed out the nasty things your god wants or does, and completely forget it when someone’s quoting something nice. That’s quite the double standard.

    At one times, it’s teaches to love thy neighbour (plagiarising from Confucius), the next it condemns homosexuality, another it claims absolute morals, the next it’s giving instructions on good slave keeping. Some moments, it suggests that god is looking out for us and will reward us for good faith, the next it convicts us of thought-crime – the very essence of a totalitarian dictatorship.

    Plus it’s blatantly wrong on matters of history, physics, maths, biology astronomy/cosmology and psychology.

    …. what was my point again? Oh yea! Nothing good comes of reading the bible unless you’ve got your “good & just god” attention filter on to interpret it as somehow being a good book. In reality when people read it as it is, they pick up messages of division & hatred with messages of love and peace sporadically peppered amongst them.

    20 years of my life I spent trying to make the bible fit into some form of good and moral framework, but it can’t be done without cutting out huge chunks.

  • Alan

    Excellent list. As a (cultural) Christian, I am as offended as anybody at SOME people who pervert Christianity as an excuse to hate and divide people. Thank you, ListVerse, for reminding people what Jesus actually taught: love, service, compassion, humility.

    Of course you know the Bible discourages divorce about ten times more often than homosexuality. I believe the breakup of the family with divorce and “free love” is a bigger social problem than gay marriage. I’m dating a single mother now, and she has a tough row to hoe.

    This generation has already forgotten that Communist atheists killed more people in past century than all religious wars in history combined: 100 million and counting. If people cannot worship God, they’re worship the government, or some other substitute, and the “open-minded, free-thinkers” will be the first in line. Be warned, and God Bless you all.

  • D. N. Matter

    No Crusaders on this list? No Inquisitor? No Concquistador?

    Turning to Protestants; No Puritans? No witch- or Jew burning Lutherans? No guys or Jack T. Chick?

  • gay list

    fluck ass gay in da bum bum listicle

  • D. N. Matter

    ye fuk da as, but sum of os sivil iced, go boom boom on u wit big stik.

  • Davien

    I’ll stay out of the arguments here and just add someone to the list:

    Tony Alamo of the Alamo Church. he was convicted at one time of using slave labor (his followers) to make designer jackets with his art designs on them.

    In the ’80’s here in L.A. it was common to come out of the grocery store and find a pamphlet on your car and said nutty things about the Catholic church and went so far as to call the church the antichrist who owned all the major TV networks and just about every news publication (Time, The NY Times, etc.). He also stated that the church assassinated Lincoln and Kennedy! It was also common to see posters plastered all over with the same message.

    “Pastor” Alamo was recently convicted of 10 federal counts of transporting minor girls across state lines for purposes of having sex with them. He is now serving 175 years in federal prison.

  • Wow this made for a very interesting read.

  • ouiareborg

    ONLY 10?

  • khatzeye

    @BravehisTickle (62): I actually but i burns me up when people act as tho these so-called god fearing christians are just so much better then regular people when in actuality they are the worst kind of people.

  • khatzeye

    @get a clue (94): Excellent but of course as u sed people like us maybe taking it too literally but they will always find a way to defend that. Just like when i ask sum catholic folks if he supposedly impreganted mary didnt he commit a sin bcuz she was married to joseph, their responce was they wer just seeing each other at the time lmao, omg funny i tell ya.

  • Steelman

    I see the Church of Low Self-Esteem is still quite active here at Listverse. What is it about lists that attract atheists?

  • D. N. Matter

    Holy Jesus, Mary & Joseph! Doesn’t really anybody understand that these were mostly fictional people! Just like Mohamed!

    Even if these people existed (and peddled superstitions) some centuries ago, we should not let their babbling about some otherwordly “god” affect our lives, let alone international politics today!!

  • tyler

    Christianity is a joke. I don’t give a shit how nice you think you are, or how much you do for people. If you believe in a religion than theirs no place for you on this planet. I hope you all fucking die you bunch of useless fucks.

  • Sofar

    FlameHorse, I have to ask you, how exactly do you feel about homosexuality? Because this list kind of makes it seem like you don’t like us. It’s important to me that I know this because I’m not sure how comfortable I am reading ListVerse if there’s a homophobic among the contributors here.

  • Josh

    Unfortunately, it would prove more of a challenge to identify “10 notable people who give Christianity a good name.” That is because we must feed the insatiable hunger for the scandalous events of this world. There are, I’m sure, a plethora of unnamed Christians who exemplify Godly men and women who live to serve the Lord and inject love, kindness, and acceptance into the world—as I’m sure God intended for his followers to do. However, this craving we have to highlight the repugnant outliers and cast judgment which creates stereotypes for every religion, race, creed, national origin, et cetera has led many of us down the path of unrighteousness as the Lord may see it.

    In short, we must fight the urge to interpret lists like this one as “10 examples of how all Christians are hypocrits.” Instead, challenge yourself to investigate the counter-argument: That there are righteous Christian men and women who exemplify the ideals of Christianity. After all, you may only then come to a healthy understanding of the topics instead of confirming your stereotypes with the dogmatic (yes, I said it) principles that are fed to you by one man’s opinion.

    I am a Christian. I am caring, loving, accepting, and open to worldly knowledge. I maintain these qualities with the pride of knowing that I have a faith in Jesus (albeit a sometimes challenged and wavering faith) that I continue to return to because of the purity and moral dignity that seems to transcend throughout a true Christian’s life.

  • porkido


    What is it that attracts religious cult members (Christians, for example)?

  • tyler

    Its called Science. Look it up.

  • porkido


    First in line for what?

  • porkido


    Just can’t stop trolling, pussy-boy?

  • porkido


    Hope you get colon cancer real soon…then you can meet Jesus!

    (only if Jesus lives in Hell, that is…)

  • D. N. Matter

    Josh, I am a Christian. I am caring, loving, accepting, and open to worldly knowledge. I maintain these qualities with the pride of knowing that I have a faith in…

    ..not especially that guy who the Romans horribly executed, but his message of kindness and love that he supposedly preached.

  • porkido


    “I think he meant that he doesn’t endorse homosexual behaviour in any form or fashion…”

    I’d like to hear it from the horse’s mouth…’against’ could mean a lot of things, including believing it should be criminalized…

  • Spello

    For the person who wants the list of ten creationists. Give me ONE fact that proves evolution and you will get your list. No one doubted creation until Darwin came up with his bizare THEORY!

  • porkido



  • Z0mgZ0rs

    @Sofar (337): Don’t forget, Frater is most probably a Christian, and he approved this list. I’d put good money he’s a homophobic.
    On the other hand, flamehorse is all about conversion, and not hate, he’s all about actually interfering with your lifestyle and being a liberator than saying a bunch of hate speech, so he can’t be a homophobic. More like someone who wants to suppress a human’s natural right.

  • Good Wolf

    @Spello (346):

    UhOH! It’s a butthurt creationist! Since you asked so nicely I’ll give you something, but first and explanation of the word theory since you must have been absent that day at school.

    In Science, the highest level of factuality and truth you get is “Theory”. It doesn’t mean “hunch” like the common use of the word suggests.
    Gravity is a theory, Relativity is a theory, Germ Theory of Disease, Atoms, electromagnetism, etc.. Not the least of which is The Theory of Evolution.
    To qualify to be a theory, a hypothesis (actual hunch) needs to be thoroughly tested and retested. The test results are used to make the theory more accurate and make predictions align more to the outcomes. When a hypothesis’ predictions align with results- you have your theory!

    In the way of facts for evolution, there is the fossil record showing millions of species slowly changing in morphology over time and DNA that conforms to that fossil record.
    You could also look at parts of the body that have evolved into a non functioning state. These are called vestigial structures. Goosebumps, bodyhair, the appendix, molar teeth and the tail bone are just a few. One of the most famous vestigial structures are the leg bones inside whales showing that once in their evolutionary history, they walked on land.


  • Tenebrae

    As much as I loath Fred Phelps, I think David Berg was an even worse example of a “Christian”. His cult advocated sex between adults and children.

    Check out information on Children of God, most notably the “Story of Davidito”. It’s a horrifying, sick ‘biography’ of a child David Berg chose to be his heir. It’s truly disturbing and an example of how they operated their Christian community.

    The child (Ricky Rodriguez) ended up killing a former nanny, and himself, because of the prolonged sexual abuse he endured as a child.

    Fred is small potatoes and just a petty hate monger in comparison.

  • khatzeye

    @Good Wolf (349): You go WOLF school them!! Obviously most of these people dont pick up a book every now and then or they are just so completely brainwashed by religion that they feel the every thought of evolution goes against themselve and their occult. You show me some hard core evidence of this supposed humans being made from clay or earth or wateva fictonal story is in that blast book yall call a bible. Show me the fossil of jesus christ better yet adam and eve since technically they were the very first humans. Science gives hard core evidence and puts all religious belief of life to shame that yall are just to stubborn to admit it… You kno it makes sense but like i sed yall are brainwashed.

  • khatzeye

    @Good Wolf (349): by the way i like ur fallout 3 avatar too ;)

  • Good Wolf

    @khatzeye (352):

    Cheers bro. Pipboy is great.

  • khatzeye

    @Good Wolf (353): Heck ya!! and is girl btw lol

  • Good Wolf

    @khatzeye (354):

    O_o .. *blink blink*

    Where have you been all my life!?

  • eric!

    Fred Phelps should be at the top of a list called ‘People Who Need to be Accidentally Run Over with a Steamroller About 4 Times.’

  • ianz09

    @eric! (356): Accidently?

  • khatzeye

    @Good Wolf (355): hit me up on aim sumtime nyckitty28

  • Good Wolf

    @khatzeye (358):

    “AIM” <:/

    No msn or skype? I don't have aim.

  • isabledd


    My name is Martin and I am disabled person. I had problems with walking and with my legs since I was a child ( I had an car accident when I was 4 years old).I am 30 years old now and still I am a virgin :( That is a big problem for me. I did not have any girlfriend and nobody loves me. Maybe because I am disabled and ugly. But I want to stop this, I don’t want to be a virgin anymore. I want to live as a humanbeing and I want to have sex with prostitute. This is the only way for me to have a sex. That is a sad true but true. I found a girl in Poland that she will do it with me. Here is a web adress: where I found those kind of sex advertisments. But it will cost me some money (about 200 $) to spend a night with polish girl because I am poor and I live in a small town in poland when there is no job for me.
    If you have mercy on me please send me even one $ (for you it is one dollar for me it is big step into new life) on this account:

    PL 66 1090 1274 0000 0001 0543 4526

    You could really save my life and give pleasure of free love and freedom. Only the real man can understand me.

    Yours sincerely,

  • You forgot George W. Bush. This guy would make it to any all-time list of Bad people.. person who give the world a bad name.
    No religion is teaches violence or makes a bad person.. its us human who follow the satan and turn towards bad paths.

  • hoohaaaaa

    this list fucken sucks

  • $uMÖ

    Fuk dis man (Pat Robertson)he is a true SON OF A BITCH

  • WhiteDragon

    @get a clue (195): Thanks! Life can get pretty hard if you don’t have a sense of humor! ;)

  • tarachowski

    @ Whitedragon (117) – yeees, people of the same sex were having sex, but the concept of “homosexuality” did not exist – there was no word for it, there were no laws against it, it was merely something which happened – i was not saying that same sex relationships did not exist – merely the classification as that relationship as something “other” – I suggest you read anything written by Michel Foucault if you need clarification.

  • SoftSillyMusic

    Jim Jones has to be first.

  • Alexander

    @ sofar (338) and Z0mgZ0rs (348)

    Why? Saying someone is giving christianity a bad name with his homophobic comments, doesn’t exactly seem homophoobic to me.

  • Dannan

    I’m sorry.. This probably isn’t something I should say..

    looks like a winking face.


    …Sorry. On the serious side, I have a passionate hatred for the Phelps clan.

  • Isabel

    I actually witnessed Westboro when they picketed President Obama’s Presidential Nomination Speech at Invesco Field two years ago. They had signs that said things like “God Hates Obama.” They were ridiculous.

  • tommyvercetti_1987

    Very few people outside America know these people.
    All of these people were from the 20-21th century.
    There are lots of people who killed in the name of Christianity and God before the 20th century who gave Christianity a bad name. The list could be renamed as the “10 people who give Christianity a bad name in the modern era”.In all fairness though, in some cases being a good Christian and a good human being is not possible.

  • Lifeschool

    LOL! :D It’s OK folks, God will forgive you. :) He’s actually a very compassionate dude – no matter what you believe – even if you don’t believe, he don’t care. He’s a carefree kinda guy.

  • Great List….

  • Garrett in Austin.

    I sure hope the Ronald Reagan reference was a joke. [?] If not then Flamehorse obviously didn’t live in the US at this time…..

  • kat87

    You can add yourself to the list Flamehorse. Not all Christians feel you shud “try to convert them [homosexuals] from “the sin”. disgusting and ignorant, hateful homophobe.

  • psychosurfer

    “The people get the government they deserve”

    Joseph De Maistre

  • The Truth

    At Josh Ober (240):

    Thank you for clarifying a little regarding some of the Jewish beliefs of the afterlife. Although I am a Christian I kind of believe in the same thing. I don’t actually think Hell is an underground lava pit filled with pitchforks and horns and all of it. I believe that Hell is by definition an existence without God – basically a purgatory. I also do believe that you can escape “Hell” but that is another conversation for another time.
    Also, regarding your other point: I once had a conversation with a lady friend of mine about living together before marriage. She admitted that it is wrong “in the eyes of God” and that it could be considered living in sin, but she also asked me if I thought that since so much has happened over the past thousands of years that didn’t I think things have changed? I mean these days because of the divorce rate and the amount of increased violence in marriages didn’t that mean that living together is more acceptable so that you can really figure out if you are meant to be together? The same thing with sex before marriage – she knew it was considered wrong in the past, but so much has changed since then, how can we apply the lessons of the bible to what the world is like today.

    My short answer was that I don’t think it matters how much time has passed. Sometimes, the amount of education we have can prevent us from living our lives. I’m not saying that people should blindly go through life without seeking education, but there are so many examples of humans out thinking themselves and I believe that humans tend to do that sometimes. They research and scan and try to unravel all kinds of things and forget how to enjoy them. I carry that belief towards homosexuality. It’s considered a sin in the eyes of God and it really doesn’t matter how much more we know these days, and frankly what do we really know? I have yet to see a scientific document that explains to me exactly what happens in a person to make them gay. I do believe that there are people who 100% believe they are gay at birth and I don’t judge them for it (this includes my best friend who I support and care for) but I do believe that it the deepest part of our brain it is in fact, a choice.
    Please don’t send me hate mail as I am not saying it is bad to be gay – but I do think that it comes down to the person and not something that happened in the womb.

    Think about it – how many examples can you name of people who were gay, and are now not. Of people who are bisexual and the not. Of people who have experimented and then decided. How many gay people had challenges growing up or broken families? Someone really should do some research on that statistic because there are legitimately as many “true gay” people out there as there are “part time” gay people, and I quite frankly don’t understand how being gay is considered something people are born with when you consider that fact, plus that there is no concrete evidence that proves it is not a choice.
    I believe that if you are gay, you need to accept Jesus into your heart. I don’t think you will magically change into a straight person, and I don’t expect you to. I believe that gay people have just as much of a chance of getting to heaven as I do.
    I hope that makes sense, and please understand that although this may be my opinion, I don’t think ill of homosexuality nor do I condemn it.

  • I’m a atheist but I’ve never called a christian person stupid or put down their beliefs because i dont really care but when people use the bible to put down a persons way of life it begins to bother me. these psychopaths really piss me off at the fact that they call a persons way of living demonic and evil when these people (homosexuals and i dont like separating gays from straights because were all apart of the same human family) just want to live their life the way they want to live it i may be only 17 but i know the difference between condemning something because it is wrong and condemning something because you have a personal problem with it…….

  • bob the fish

    no offence Mr. Bubbles…. but you should wait until your older than 17 before you decide on anything major in your life. What the hell do you know?

  • Alencon

    I cannot believe you published a list with the tortured English phrase “trying of forgiving and trying to convert them from the sin” addressed against homosexuality.

    What sin? Is the “sin” of homosexuality the same or different than the “sin” of being left handed or the “sin” of having blue eyes?

    I’m willing to accept that the jury is still out on whether homosexuality is genetic, hormonal, a lifestyle choice or some mix of the three. Allow me to suggest that your lists should remain neutral as well.

  • Hiamn

    Mr. Bubbles there are no clear cut objective criteria that are universally accepted as being indicators for what is right and wrong, therefore every condemnation is on some level based on people’s/community’s/society’s personal problems with the action.
    On a different note, I’ve been coming for my LV fix nearly daily for the last 18 months now, and used to relish the comments after the lists as much as the lists themselves. Things have really gone downhill of late, which is such a pity as although commentators often had opposing opinions they always made for interesting and informative reading. I would strongly advise JFrater, Mom 424 etc-who have always done a stellar job- to maybe have a pow-wow as to how to combat it; certain lists are starting to read like youtube. A huge pity for such an interesting forum.

  • bob the fish

    At Hiamn:

    WAAAAAHHHH…. go find something else to do with your time you socially rejected nerd.

  • Commenter

    Hey Hiamn,


    Go find something else to do with your time, you socially rejected nerd!

  • ianz09

    “Now, my whole take on the gay rights issues, particularly gay marriage, is, let’s be honest, if you’re against gay marriage, you just don’t like gay people! And you wanna stick it to ’em! And I’m not saying I wouldn’t do the same thing if I was presented with similar opportunities. Like if there was a law up for debate that was like, ‘Hey man, do you think guys that wear tight t-shirts and get bottle-service at nightclubs should be allowed to own property?’ I’d be like, ‘No! Fuck those guys! Hahaha! Yeah, um… It violates the sanctity of owning property and it says in the Bible they’re douchebags!’ Whatever I need to say so you don’t think this is coming from purely a place of hate!”
    -Comedian Aziz Ansari, from his album Intimate Moments for a Sensual Evening

    Good point, that.

  • Hiamn

    ….I rest my case! Honestly, what wrong turn found you here?

  • RedMan

    The real wackos are the idiots that listen to these guys. It’s funny how some people will just blindly follow along like some whipped puppy. Everytime I hear about Waco it makes me think of Ruby Ridge. Good and interesting list.

  • Deana

    If you’re going to make a website of funny lists, would you mind keeping your commentary out of it? I didn’t come here to hear you bash people for having a less-effective brand of homophobia than yours.

  • Alexander

    Read it again, and yes, flamhorse does say here that homosexuality is a sin, multiple times, and found that he also clearly states this in the comments, as do some other users. Must have missed it yesterday because I was reading while tired.
    Too bad, I really liked this site untill now.

    So I guess they can go get some slaves (lev25:44), sell their daughters (exodus 21:7) and burn bulls on their altars as they please (leviticus1:9)

    But I will certainly wait untill they work on sabbath(exodus35:2), or get a haircut (lev 19:27)so I may kill them .

    so long, stupid narrowminded, hypocritical homophobes.

  • plasmatwa2

    I think the censorship in the entry about number one isn’t needed. We are all (well, mostly) adults here, I think we can handle a few words, especially when the entry itself is all about them. There has been worse on this site.

  • Steelman

    @porkido (339):


    The cult of atheism is much, much smaller proportionally compared to Christianity (1 Billion or so members). So, basic statistics should explain that to you if you actually understand statisitics (which I have my doubts).

  • Commenter

    At Alexander (385)

    You think you can name three quick passages from the bible and then paint whole book based on them? You are an idiot. If you are so smart please list in detail everything taking place in all of those examples.

    Also, shall I list the hundereds upon hundreds of entriest that talk about love, compassion and acceptance.
    Sorry to rain on your “Im going to sound smart today” parade, but your a bit of a [email protected]


  • Paschalis

    @ gremy0 (100)
    from two thousand and ten years of the Orthodox Church history you came up with a story who noone knows???
    I cannot commend on that. Unless you;re going for the 11th position in that list. Better talk about dinosaurs.

    @ Freshies (101)
    some popes and some protestants with hundrers of heresies made it really complicated, not me.

  • to bob the fish:
    well age is irrelevent in the choices i make and ive had to make my own choices by myself for a long time nobody taught me right from wrong i never had anybody to do that for me so yeah im young but when faced with making your own choices your whole life you get kind’ve good at making choices for yourself…… and im not bitching man and whatever dude i dont take offence dude but yeah im not the most eloquent person i take pride in the fact that i am level headed and open

  • Alexander

    @ commenter(390)

    I guess you didn’t quite take the time or energy to consider the context and meaning of my nprevious post.

    I giving a few examples of “sins” these homophobes surely commit, and some “roghts” the bible claims they have, which they will probably never exercise. I’m a christian myself, and it is because of my believe in love that I try to convey to these stupid homophobes how hypocritical they are by thinking they can just choose which rulkes apply, and discarding others. If they want others to strictly follow rules from the old testament, want to call homosexuals sinners, then they shouldn’t get a haircut either, or they should condone slavery. That’s what the bible says, isn’t it?

    If YOU don’t get that, and try to call ME a dumbass for it, then it’s not me, but YOU who’s the idiot now.

    Besides, if you believe in hte “love”passages of tthe bible so much, why are you calling me names here? DUMBASS.

  • erickarthik

    Pat Robertson, Jim Jones, Applewhite and Plelp’s . How do these people even have followers ??? how gullible people are ???

    Guess its true, Man is intelligent but people are dumb

  • How about just One Person who gave Christianity a Good Name?


    Never judge a philosophy by the abuse of that philosophy. There are abusers in every camp.

  • live stellar

    Nice list!
    But, where is Warren Jeffs? I was kind of disappointed not to see him on here.

  • iom

    those who believe in a God don’t/won’t really lose anything. you can laugh at them all you want, but what if they were right and there really is a God? i don’t think you’d still be laughing by then.

    fighting over whether or not there is God is pointless as nobody really knows for sure.

    just live and let live, you know?

  • BGH

    Actually… Semmie, Jesus also gives Christianity a bad name. Along with the list above.

    Plus, all of the Popes, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Josephus…. etc.

  • Kuban8r

    It’s funny.
    I am a passionate Christian and I can tell people or post online that I believe strongly in Christ and I accept other peoples views and ideals because I believe everyone is unique and different. I don’t judge anyone. I can say that and STILL get people telling me that my belief’s are garbage and the bible is full of errors, etc.

    It’s funny that the non believers are the ones vocally trying to push their agenda on me. Perhaps it has more to do with your insecurities. If one day you do decide to ask Christ for guidance, I know you will see a difference.

    And I’m not saying it has to be Christ, I am tolerant and accepting of all religions, I just happen to believe in mine.

  • Voltaire

    @flamehorse (124):
    Hey flamehorse you forgot a “Christian” on the list. It’s you…

  • iom

    speaking of people giving christianity a bad name:

  • Voltaire

    @sirMouse (305):
    “Plus, marrying young girls was perfectly normal of the time. Not just in that culture but in many. Historically the onset of puberty is when girls are seen fit to marry.”

    Yeah mouse I love you, too. This favorite list of mine basically implies that this girl reaches puberty with 6.
    Perfectly normal I know. If you feel insulted by that I can not help you. I didn’t write the list nor Qur’an.

  • Riesstu

    A depressing list, thoroughly revolting specimens of humanity, but then religion – like politics – can bring out the worst in people…

  • Dr. Cynic

    Every religion has it’s nutjobs, which is why I steer clear of them all.

  • Clark88

    @dc420911 (163): Why is it just Christianity? You don’t happen to think other religions do this?

  • Clockwork

    People condemning others for believing in a religion are much, much worse than those “stupid” enough for believing in said religion.

  • Clockwork

    @bucslim (249): Very well said and perfectly on point. In many instances, the internet has brought out the worst in people.

  • Sofar

    Alexander, did you read this list? Should I be happy that the writer condemns the actions of anti-gay religious figures even though he said several times in the article that we are sinners and need to be shown the light?

  • powder

    you’re forogt the christian brothers in Ireland – they have pretty much killed catholicism in a country that was 99% catholic

    …lets see the crazies from other religions

  • Tristian

    I must say, I am very glad to see that Fred Phelps is number 1 on this list. That man is terrible.

    In 2004, my friend Scotty Weaver was murdered. Fred Phelps and his followers came to my hometown and boycotted his funeral. They were carrying signs with Scotty’s picture saying “Scotty is in hell” and the likes.

    Fred Phelps, I hate you.

  • porkido


    This is true for all the dipsticks who think the Bible is a documentary…but seen as mythology, history, philosophy, and literature, the work is obviously much more nuanced (and not nearly as ridiculous)…

    Unfortunately, there ARE all those dipsticks…

  • porkido

    “…yet he makes the common mistake of hating them, spewing rage at them, instead of trying of forgiving and trying to convert them from the sin.”

    Everyone is piling on Flamehorse for this comment, and for later saying he’s “against” homosexuality…the above quote is certainly clumsily written, but could be taken from the perspective of the ‘Bad Christian’ in question…I’d like to see FH ‘come out’ and tell us exactly what he means by these comments…

  • FierceGrace

    Christianity is based on the story of Horus. I shouldn’t even say based I should say stolen.

  • mfm999

    Thanks so much for this; it’s extremely well written and provocative. Best, Michael

  • Mac

    Do atheists believe that there is a possibility that some form of energy or intellect was behind the big bang (if the big bang theory is correct).

  • Mac

    I’m trying to determine which camp I am in. I think that there must be something that started this whole ball rolling, but I definitely don’t believe that it was the God that the Bible has created.

  • sovadin

    this is too!!

  • For you to add Pat Robertson to a list of psychopaths and murders shows that you are ignorant of the man and the work he has done.

    Say what you want about his politics and his sometimes asinine comments, but the man has done more to help poor and oppressed people around the world than most of us can ever dream.

    In fact, as he was saying the ignorant Haiti comment, his organization, “Operation Blessing,” was already on the ground helping the victims of the earthquake.

    Next time you make a list like this you should use a little bit more discretion. Just because you disagree with his beliefs does not mean he should be on a top ten with Jim Jones. Jeez.

  • CuriousKitty

    Don’t know if anyone already said this, but if Phelps, Sr. is so pissed off at America for our “support of homosexuality,” why does he live in Kansas, USA? He’s more than welcome to leave, and go find someplace else where maybe they don’t have so many homosexuals.

  • Good Wolf

    @The Truth (376):

    You know that by altering the chemistry of a mother’s womb, scientists can make gay offspring.

    And the more male babies a mother has, as she becomes resistant to testosterone, the higher the chance that the next child will be gay.

    The science is there, even something coined “the gay gene”, you just have to spend some time looking for it, instead pandering to stances that appeal to your bronzeage beliefs.

  • sirMouse

    @Voltaire (402): I’m no more insulted by that than plenty of the other atrocities going on at the same point in history. Stuff like witch burning.

    It seems absolutely horrible given today’s view of the matter, but if you put it in context it isn’t quite the same thing.

  • ZibbyYamala

    nice list!! tisk tisk tho; making something so beautiful so ugly. those jerkoffs!

  • bucslim

    @Clockwork (407):

    Thanks for the compliment, but I don’t think whatever I have to say amounts to a hill of beans. There’s almost 200 comments since I wrote that and yet it’s the same back and forth between the followers and the non-compliant. Not sure I made a dent.

  • willyac

    Have you ever heard of Robert Schuller and Rick Warren?

  • Random_Name1

    The Westboro Baptist assholes showed up at one of my friend’s funerals. I cant wait until Satin kicks the crap out of them in hell.

  • Fruit Junior

    How about Janet Reno?

  • Good Wolf

    @willyac (424):

    Rick Warren. Ugh awful!

  • M.

    Louis Theroux did an interesting expose on the Westboro Baptist Church (

    My boyfriend says that the more you pay attention to them the more they feel validated. It’s fucking disgusting though. They wanted to protest the V-Tech funerals. I knew a kid who died that day. It’s horrifying.

    I liked your list. I was raised in the church and I have seen firsthand just how bad it can be sometimes. My only complaint is that you missed Jerry Falwell. I suppose he is worthy of his own list.

  • Linan

    Someone above said that Michael Bray is in prison until 2037- I ate hot dogs in his backyard 2 summer ago with his children and he was there as well.. certainly not in prison. I know his family and to be honest I had no idea that he believed this way but he has some pretty awesome kids. The one kid that I know very very well is very well adjusted and sweet. I see now that he is not so much :(

  • Dani

    Fred Phelps, Sr. and his followers piss me off

  • Chagoth

    Homosexuality wasn’t a concept in biblical times? I’m not clear what you who have said that mean. Before Judaism came along, there was no hetereosexual/homosexual distinction as far as the act was concerned. The distinction was between penatrator and penatratee, not male/female. Plus the ancient Greeks engaged in homosexual acts quite regularly. Homosexuality is as old as heterosexuality.

    By the by, Pat Robertson doesn’t belong on this list. His ministries around the world have literally saved the lives of millions of people. Literally. While he certainly has a penchant for saying stupid things–for which he always apologizes for–to have him on the list with murderers and selfish bastards hardly seems logical. Do actions matter more than words or not?

  • porkido


    Is that Satan’s hair stylist?

  • porkido


    The ancient Greeks did make a distinction between hetero and homo sex…as they did with sex between older and younger men and sex between contemporaries…and between those liaisons and prostitution…though that’s all neither here nor there…

    And Pat Robertson? At this point, he’s just a senile old fool…but he’s said some crazy, hateful things, and when you have the ear of millions, millions who think you have a special connection to God…it matters a lot.

  • John Birch would be a good inclusion to this list. The John Birch Society of Appleton, Wisconsin, is named in his honour.

  • I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

    Stock Market News and Views, Stock Buying and Investment Tips.

  • echo

    notice that accept for moon they are all american

  • A superb choice for number one!

    And a great blog btw.

  • M.

    the only reason why the Old Testament Jews were so against homosexuality is the same reason why they were against masturbation. if you’re trying to repopulate a dying race, then the last thing you ever want to do is to waste that precious sperm on a man…or on your right hand. they needed all that seed for new babies. i don’t know that it was so much about homosexuality as it was keeping the tribe alive.

    Jesus’ teaching in the New Testament doesn’t address homosexuality at all. he was too busy healing the sick and preaching about love to bother with this. maybe the Phelps’ should look at that before they go so apeshit crazy.

    i’ve read a lot of Plato and to the Greeks sex with men was better than with women because men were their intellectual and social equals. women were not. you cannot truly love someone who is not your match.

  • Good Wolf

    @M. (438):

    If only they had masturbated and had lots of gay sex and died out as a race. We’d have no less than 3 vile religions erased for good.

  • j

    Isn’t the entire religion called Christianity, like all other religions, just a cult designed to help the ruling class dominate over the lower class citizens? In the name of god, of the true god, if there is one, anyone involved in preaching religion will burn in hell.

  • The Truth

    At Good Wolf (420)

    you are the one that may want to do some more research. The gay gene is not a proven scientific fact but a theory and there have been ZERO studies that 100% prove beyond any doubt the things you mentioned in your post.

    The fact is, there was a study mentioing a higher chance of a child being gay the more males a mother gives birth to but the study self admits it doesn’t prove anthing because it doesn’t take into account enviormental factors. There is no way to prove it was in fact a chemical like Testosterone that caused it and not something else within the child’s life.

    the gay gene is also not a proven science as the scientist that coined it admits that his own testing could have been flawed by the effect of HIV on the human brain (as many of his subjects were also HIV positive).

    If you find some proof that is not just at theory I will listen to you. Otherwise you are just another angry anti-Christian pretending to be smarter than everyone else but not willing to check your facts.

  • The Truth

    And before you accuse me of being anti-gay I will say one more time that I am not. I just refuse to buy into the fake belief society is pushing on us that being gay is not a choice.
    It is a choice, and like all choices you should take responsibility for it instead of hiding behind “science”

    Just a quick read for you, but if don’t want to look through the whole thing I have included some excerpts below. This is just one of 20 different overviews I found that doubt or disprove the “Gay Gene”

    (1) All the research that has been done on homosexuality has been selectively trumpeted through the press in carefully crafted form in order to shape public opinion-hence public policy-in predictable ways. The research itself means almost nothing.

    (2) The research projects that would truly mean something are scarcely being done because they would all explicitly or tacitly lead to but one end highly undesirable to activists: a method or methods for preventing homosexuality or changing it with ever-increasing efficacy; and to one conclusion: homosexuality per se is not inherited.

    (3) Most of the research has been hastily and often sloppily done-but this point is a distraction. Even were it superb, the findings would still mean almost nothing.

    (4) To whatever extent this research has been good enough to generate valid conclusions at all, these conclusions are precisely the opposite of what is claimed in the press.

  • M.

    @good wolf.
    thank you for that. my fiance is Jewish. i have to disagree with you.

  • Good Wolf

    @The Truth (441): @The Truth (442):

    We spent fukkin ages on human sexuality in psychology. The data speaks for itself. 60% of college and university students in America stated that they were not exclusively gay or straight. Human sexuality is a spectrum, not a dichotomy, and as with all things, humans fall on a bell curve. Certain factors influence people to spread across it.

    Human sexuality, as with the sexuality of all higher brained animals, is contained and controlled in the ancient r-complex area of the brain, arguably one of the oldest structures. In the womb when the brain forms, the neurology of our sexuality is set in place (as demonstrated in MRIs quite clearly). The wiring is usually mostly towards the opposite sex yet conception isn’t a perfect process and children are born with backwards or simply ambiguous sexual circuitry.

    All this is exactly what you’d expect when a gay person tells you they were always that way. Almost 100% of sissy, gender-nonconforming boys turn out gay. Are we to believe that they chose to be as early at 2? That’s hardly rational.

    BTW the gay gene is a gene on the x chromosome linked to heightened fertility in women. Men carrying the gene have show a marked increase in the likelihood of being gay. It’s not a 1to1 direct causal relationship, it’s just a factor.

    Troll harder.

  • Good Wolf

    @M. (443):

    Got no problem with ethnic groups, just religions.

  • nice list

  • Alexander

    Yes, sofar, if you read my other comment, you’ll see thdat i somehow missed it completely when I first read at, and after reading it again I completey agree with you.

  • Alexander

    @ goodWolf(444)

    way to go!

    @ The truth(441)

    I’d stall much rather be an anti-christian than an anti-gay person.
    Being christian is a choice, being gay (no matter what your ridiculous and unfounded claims may be) is not. I’ve never seen a christian going through severe depressions, self-denial and having to leave all their family behind just because they had to accept the fact they were christian and could not change. I HAVE seen that happen to good, honest young people who discovered that, however hard they might hope otherwise, thay had romantic and sexual feelings for their own sex.

  • Good Wolf

    @Alexander (448):

    I saw a parody on that premise the other day. I lol’d hard.

    But sadly it’s true, gays can become pariahs or worse in religious settings. That sometimes is not as bad as what they think of or even do to themselves. Gays raised in Christian homes will likely be repressive, and they will fight it (because they think they’re supposed to) and they’ll fail (because they can’t succeed) and then blame themselves increasingly becoming more depressed because of it.

    .. I know this from PERSONAL experience.

  • ladyserenity92

    It’s such a shame that people who claimed to be men of God would preach agendas of hate to the world. There are some good people that don’t use ‘hategonda’ or live in big mansions just to teach the love of God to people. God teaches us to love one another just like his son, Jesus has loved us. Instead of watching the telly all the time, I read the Bible and listen to my heart. I’m not a hater, I’m a lover of heroes and outcast.
    Don’t follow the ‘haters’, just do what Jesus and your heart tell you to do. Jesus walked with the sinners and the outcast; can you do the same?

  • Maggot

    @Good Wolf (449): I know this from PERSONAL experience.

    Sorry to hear that GW. While I totally agree with you (and others) that a person’s innate orientation is NOT a choice, I often take a different approach, because to debate choice vs. not-a-choice sort of concedes that if it were a choice, it is a bad choice. I’d rather ask – why is it “bad”? As long as no harm is done to anyone, why can’t people just do what they want? It really shouldn’t be any big deal IMO. To say it is bad just because a so-called god and a book says it’s a sin is just parroting a decree based on an arbitrary “authority”.

  • Good Wolf

    @Maggot (451):


    The “It’s not bad choice” is my 2nd argument.

  • The Truth

    At Good Wolf #444:

    you can spout off as much as you want about science and genes and this and that, but at the end of the day that was all fluff and again 0 proof. Although I applaud you on your diverse knowledge of the english language.

    your parents tried to make you into something you are not (by your own choice) and its not every Christians fault that happened to you.
    Grow up, tell your parents or people around you how you feel and move on… find a way to accept everyone and love your fellow man – if Christianity doesn’t do it for you then pick something else, and dont tell me you dont need to. Your constant arguing and letting your own personal situation disort the facts clearly shows you are living a life of pain.

    I actually feel sorry for you.

  • The Truth

    At Alexander 448:

    Just because peoples parents, families and friends degrade thier lifestyle choice doesn’t mean you can blame Christ for it. Be strong and accept responsiblity for how you choose to live your life and stop trying to find someone to blame.

    Anyone emotionally abused by a family member using religion as a weapon needs to take the issue up with the person using the word of God the wrong way. Don’t take the weak and easy approach of blaming God himself. Thats cowardly.

  • The Truth

    At Maggot 451 –

    God said that homosexuality is bad, God also said that lying is wrong… yet people lie every day and still get into Heaven.

    I never said that homosexuality is wrong (I just argue that it is in fact – a choice and many homosexuals would rather think its just something that happened to them and not face reality) and there are plenty of good Christians that also don’t believe it is wrong.

    It’s hard to use the bible as any kind of gauge to whats right or wrong as anyone who accepts Christ can be forgiven in the eyes of the Lord. So, if you are gay you are asked to accept God and you can still be Christian… although many pastors would tell you that you are not truly saved until you refuse your homosexual lifestyle (that is the part that irks people). I prefer to think that as long as you accept Christ you will go to Heaven and leave a good life.

    I’m being made out to be a bad guy even though I’ve stated that I don’t think homosexuality is bad… I just wont believe any stubborn homosexuals who choose to live by wishy washy “could be maybe not” facts.

  • The Truth

    To all –

    I just realized that I am not getting any work done today, nor did I yesterday. This is a very addicting website.

    While GF tries to cloud the issues with moral and scientific rhetoric, I need to get back to what I do in the real world and not take my frustrations out on people on a website. If this is the out you need to in order to feel connected to someoene, then I think you need to find a more productive thing to do with life.
    God led me to a happy life, an accepting life and a life full of friends and family who love me. I am morally, financially and emotionally full and I realize that most people who are on this website need it to feel important.
    It hurts my soul to see some of you… and I hope you find a good life down the road.

    Please do not respond as I am no longer looking at this site. I am not trying to get out of an argument because I have clearly won it… not that I think it is a competition but you just need to know when something is not good for you – and this site is not good for me.

    Take care, and I hope you all live great lives!

  • Kuban8r

    I’d hardly say you won any argument The Truth, but I do think you and Wolf both bring up some valid points.
    Although I agree with part of what you are saying, I think you are a little bit misguided.

    That being said, I think there are a few of you “anti-Christan” people on here that need to be a little more accepting. I am a life long Christian and I haven’t done anything to you, why bash my beliefs?
    Can’t we all get along!… well except for the nutjobs featured in this list.

  • Maggot

    @The Truth (455): I never said that homosexuality is wrong (I just argue that it is in fact – a choice and many homosexuals would rather think its just something that happened to them and not face reality)

    I wasn’t specifically directing that question “why is it bad?” towards you, and I acknowledge that you never said that. But I do disagree with you on the choice thing. A person doesn’t choose how they feel. They just “feel”…it is innate. True, a person physically chooses to either act or not act upon those innate feelings, but the feelings themselves are not chosen. How can they be?

  • Maggot

    @The Truth (456): Please do not respond as I am no longer looking at this site.

    Ah well…I submitted my previous post before seeing this. Whatever…

  • porkido

    @The “Truth”(456):

    1. We know you’re still here…lurking…

    2. The choice/genetic argument always seemed a bit irrelevant to me…because I’m going to have sex with any consenting adult/s I like. It’s none of anyone’s effing business, other than mine and theirs.

  • ShawBear

    It really is truly shameful when someone perverts the teachings of Jesus Christ. God does hate sin, but He loves sinners and wants them to turn away from sin and to Him.

  • Benjamin Kritikos

    You seem like a very open-minded author and I don’t mean be unduly critical … but I must point out that you failed to mention the hundreds of thousands of people executed in auto da fes in Europe from the 15th until the 19th centuries, the Crusades, the Catholic Church’s lack of action when its priests were raping children the world over, the dirty dealings of the Vatican bank and other Vatican-related secret organisations, the persistent adbication of responsibility on the part of Christians of many denominations in their complicity in oppressing women, homosexuals and transgender people, and the constant onslaught of misinformation about birth control which serves to keep victims of AIDS in Africa ill-informed.

    I really don’t mean to be harsh, but these things, more than celebrity nutjobs, give Christianity a bad name.

  • I find generally most christians give christianity a bad name; millions of people with an extremely shallow moral system based on reward and punishment, much more dangerous than a few fundamentalist nutters

  • ampace

    Just call this one “People who give people a bad name.” Leave Christianity out of it. Just because they claimed to be Christians doesn’t mean they were/are (especially the morons who claim they are Christ reincarnated). Think critically much?

    Hey, guess what everyone! I’ve just converted to horseism. I’m now a horse. Wait, I don’t look like a horse, I don’t crap like a horse, I don’t eat like a horse. I must be faking. Yep, I’m faking.

    Sound familiar?

  • Nice list. I learned a lot. But I find most of these guys are cult leaders, not really Christians. I would think a lot of people would be able to tell the difference.

    The Phelps guy really burns me. He definitely gives Christianity a bad name with his hatred. The first time I learned about that church of his I started crying. How can people hate so much?

  • Good Wolf

    @The Truth (453):

    You don’t seem to understand what happens no gays and bisexuals who are brainwashed with Christian dogma. My parents didn’t try to make me something I am not, not did the church. Unfortunately, because of being taught the religion, I had it in my own head that it’s wrong. People could have bullied me about it or my parents could’ve abused me about it (not that any of them knew) but it wasn’t as bad as the abuse I put myself through. I failed to change, I failed to restructure my brain so that it would respond sexual only to female stimulus for years. All of that time I became increasing convinced that I was corrupt and evil. Do you know, psychologically, that can do to a person?!

    AND WHY THE HELL WOULD I CHOSE IT?! Why would anyone thing that turning gay would be a god thing?

    As for proof – you clearly don’t understand how science is. There is no such thing as proof in science, instead you have evidence, evidence which, in sufficient amounts, gives scientists reason to take stances of confidence. “This is what the numbers suggest.” That’s why the highest level of factuality in science is theory and theories can’t be proven, only disproved – and theories stand, accepted, until they are disproved.

    In human sexuality, we observe that sexual activity is directly associated with one part of the brain, and showing a straight man pictures of beautiful woman induces very specific responses in that region of the brain. Conversely, if you show the same picture to a lesbian, the same patterns with appear in her brain. It has been established, without a doubt, in science that sexuality is entirely neurological – as you’d expect. But there is NOT precedent in science for people being able to restructure parts of their brains at will – therefore peoples’ sexualities have to have developed as the entire brain was built from a few cells at the beginning of a life.

    Not only is that what all investigation into human and animal sexuality has shown us, but that is exactly what you’d expect to see assuming sex is all in the brain (which it is), and it makes coherent sense.

    You tell me what I say has no proof when it’s the established view of science after 60 years of investigation and instead maintain that it’s a choice. Well where’s your proof? Where are your studies? Where are your personal testimony of people who consciously and deliberately chose to start being attracted to their own gender?!

    Right now all you’re going with is a piece of ancient tome which also demands scapegoating, animal sacrifice and the stoning of adulterers and disobedient children. Apparently, your homophobic god has a real blood thirst.

  • Great topic if people would follow christ teaching and not some one who claims to be called.many are called few our chosen.90%percent are not called 10% are. so a lot of this guys are mental midgets.the bible is clear when you read it and not twisted.most preachers and pastor prey on people miss guided lives….gandi said it best i like your christ but not your christian.

  • fredphelpsisstupid

    Fred Phelps is secretly gay.

  • porkido


    “the bible is clear when you read it and not twisted.”

    You sure you wanna stand by that?

  • porkido


    I sympathize with your view, but the argument is somewhat circular: the definition of a Christian is someone who acts like a Christian.

    Indeed, what is a Christian? Someone who quotes the New Testament? Who is baptized? Who does good works? Who wears a cross?

    There’s more to a Christian than simply claiming to be, I’ll grant you…but Christianity shouldn’t get a pass when one of its own does bad, in the Name of the Lord…

  • Uuuuummmm !! christianity is a lifestyle.lot of the foolishness that goes on in most churches are man made rules.i am a christian and i dont batter someone cause they dont share the same belief.and i treat people like people.theres a difference. i am not religous i am nobodys GOD.these guys were crazy. the uneducated to the highly educated followed these nut cases.the bible warned of these types of people.

  • porkido

    Um, ok.

  • porkido

    Also, to be fair to FH (who, to my knowledge, hasn’t appeared to explain his “gay” remarks) and to this list, the intro does explain:

    “…many people CLAIMING to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ…” (my caps)

    So all you Christians can calm down.

  • Good Wolf

    @porkido (473):

    But Flamehorse said that (s)he is Christian, so I would see the distinction “claiming” to be just pandering to the Christian mentality.

    [Christianity = good] therefore [bad Christians = not real Christians]

    Personally, I’m of the opinions that “real” Christians are rare, one-in-a-million finds. I think biblical literalists are the only ones who could claim to be Christians as they don’t pick and choose. “Moderate” Christianity does that a lot; clinging to the good bits in, specifically, the gospels and some Pauline books. Literalists would be accurate to their book to say homosexuality is wrong and they’d go so far as to kill homosexuals alongside stoning adulteresses and disobedient children all the while not eating shell fish or pork or working on the Sabbath.

    I think it’s dishonest to suggest that Christianity is by its nature good or innocent or unhateful or not misogynistic or anti-intellectual.

    I would say that most people who claim to be Christian but aren’t literalists are just spiritualists with a Jesus bent.

  • Good Wolf

    @Good Wolf (474):

    or intellectual*

  • porkido


    Part of me wants to point out that literalism dwells mostly in Old Testament books…so we can blame the Jews too!

    But I also want to reiterate my comment from #470, that it’s a bit too easy to say, as you point out as well, that bad Christians aren’t Christians at all…

    In any case, any ideology (religious or otherwise) will produce its zealots, and from zealotry comes extremism.

  • Good Wolf

    @porkido (476):

    Literalism does dwell mostly in the Old Testament books (and Revelations) sure, but you can’t easily part the two.

    Mainly because the whole point of Jesus’ [temporary] sacrifice was to be a scapegoat for the sin of man kind. The explanation for the sin of mankind goes back to Adam & Eve in the OT. If genesis is allegory and not literal then the sin of mankind is no more real than any other fictional plot device.

    Basically if you don’t take Genesis literally, then there was no point to Jesus’ sacrifice, and the whole religion falls to pieces. It’s really an all or nothing situation – well, either that or be Jewish but that’s still OT literalism you have to swallow.

  • Good Wolf

    @porkido (476):

    And yes, saying that real Christians can’t be bad people is I think presuming one’s on conclusion. Circular reasoning.

  • Amazing list! Real Christians are not like these “Christian leaders” and its awful to know that there are various people who are deceived by them…

  • Mac

    Most people are easy to deceive. In fact, anybody who believes in any religion has been deceived. These are just extreme cases. But it’s all based on deception.

  • Mac

    @Mac (480): Let me qualify my previous statement: “When it comes to religion”, most people are easy to deceive. That’s because they are searching for answers to questions that no one on earth can correctly answer. So, they buy the story of the religion they find most convincing. If it makes these people feel good about things, then why not. Just don’t try to convince me that you know something about the nature of reality that I don’t. I’m one of those people who are very difficult to deceive. Except when a beautiful woman tells me I’m handsome, then I’m all over it!!!

  • archangel

    Nice nice list – who the hell lets these psychos roam!

  • Kuban8r

    At Good Wolf –

    Just curious, when you were being raised what form of Christianity were you tought? Was it non-denominational, United, Catholic?
    It doesn’t really matter but there are a few “religions” that are far more effective at turning people away from Christ than bringing people to him. Religion itself is a mad-made invention based on the teachings of the bible.
    While I don’t think you can overlook the dark parts of the bible, I think it is important to realize the message of faith which is what I base my belief structure around.

    I believe alot of people choose to pick the parts of the bible they want to believe in and preach their will against others but refuse to admit that the bible is not all good and lovey dovey stuff. I am not afraid to admit that the bible has its flaws and parts that can really make you question God’s will, but faith itself is what I choose to believe in. I believe it it through my interpetation of the bible, as well as my own personal experiences and hearing the stories of others.
    The bible is not fact, it’s very similar to your above arguement for science. It is theory that can never be 100% proven beyond any doubt.

    My stance on homosexuality? Well since I believe that Christ’s message is about loving your fellow man – so while I admit that God probably views homosexuality as a sin, he still loves everyone the same. You are not damned to hell because you are gay, any more than I damned to hell because I eat meat on Fridays.

    I’m not going to try and convert you, I just hope you dont paint us all with the same brush.

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (483):

    I don’t paint all Christians with the same brush, I paint all of Christianity with the same brush; a source of evil in the world. I don’t believe Christianity automatically makes you a bad person or anything, I see it more as a handicap.

    Also to clarify, because I HATE this presumption, I am bisexual, not gay.

    I rejected faith a year or so ago when I realised how irrational it is. None of the bible is demonstrably accurate and the main item put forward as evidence is faith. Well that dame faith is universally used as evidence for all religions so it’s no indicator of accuracy.

    A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. -Friedrich Nietzsche

    Now I think it’s highly stupid to suppose your god would thing homosexuality is wrong, I don’t care if it’s not typical; there is not an argument in existence for why homosexuality is logically a bad thing for humanity – there is no explanation in the bible why it’s considered a bad thing by those barbarians.
    Furthermore, all shades of the sexuality scale, from 100% straight to 100% gay are produced by nature in nature. There is even one species of whiptale lizard that is an all-female species, most of which will engage in lesbian relationships in order to help the parthenogenesis process along.

    And isn’t the fact that two women or two men are capable of being genuinely in love enough proof that this alleged god is cool with gay relationships?

    Basically it bores down to that: If you can’t produce a rational and logical reason for the stance that homosexuality is bad, you have no business believing that, let alone preaching it.

  • J

    @Good Wolf (477): You’re saying that if you don’t take Genesis literally, then mankind currently has no sin. Even if you don’t take this story literally you can’t deny that people sin all the time. Salvation for these sins would then be the purpose of Jesus’ sacrifice.

  • J

    @Good Wolf (484): Homosexuality is great, it certainly promotes the spread of mankind and the survival of our species. I mean can you give one valid reason why homosexuality is right? And if people are indeed born homosexual, how would that mutation be passed down by two men who don’t wish to have relationships with women?

  • Good Wolf

    @J (485):

    If Jesus apparently believed in a literal creation event 6500 years ago then why don’t you? It’s exactly the premise of what he did.

    And yes I can deny that people sin all the time because sin only exists in a personal, law-giver god context. Otherwise there is no basis for sin. There is no reason to believe that or even assume it here for sake of the argument.

    Some of the so-called sins are pretty ridiculous too, usually for logical reasons. Would you pull an ass out of a pit on the sabbath? It’s one of the precious 10 commandments. Would you kill in self defence or defence of say children? Also a sin. All from a god who loved his blood sacrifices and scapegoating. It’s curious that there’s no commandment against slavery and child abuse, though if we read on we see why; because god was about to demand those two very things. Where was god’s moral compass when he ordered the destruction of the Amalekites?

    So which is it? Did Adam and Eve fall from grace or are we sinless risen apes?

  • Kuban8r


    I respect your desire and need for factual evidence. My wife is very concrete minded and will not accept anything put in front of her that she cannot examine and wrap her head around completley. I think that sometimes it is a curse.

    If someone needs to have proof for every feeling, every emotion and every BELIEF in life, then how can they actually really “love” something. I could be wrong, but I believe there has been some research into whether love is something we feel or if its something that actually chemically takes place in the brain but there is no solid theory behind that.
    So, really you can’t tell me that people are capable of love, but not capable of having faith in God? I don’t need proof of my faith, like I said I have faith from what I have researched and what I have experienced. I know that you didn’t actually question that in your post, but I was to reiterate it.

    regarding your last point – I never said that homosexuality is bad, I said that it is a sin in the eyes of God, BUT sin is not a black and white “wrong and right” lable. At least not in my belief system. One thing that can be taken from the bible (Phelps chose to ignore this part) is that through all of the horror, death, stonings, and this is “sin” stuff, God still wants us to love each other and forgive each other. So, as I indicated in my earlier post I have 0 problems with bi-sexuals or gays (my best friend is in fact a gay man).

    It is hard to win an argument about faith or science, the main reason being one smart and well educated person can listen to the evidence and decide one thing, and another well educated and and smart person can decide another. Arguements and war come down to not being able to accept anyone elses opinion, which is a stance that is very clearly pointed out in the bible as not right.

    One more thing though – although I respect your opinion and understand it, do you really think you are qualified to tell people that they have no business in believing in something if they cant find a rational or logical reason for it? What about human emotion? you are telling me that I can’t feel something without any proof for why I do?

  • Good Wolf

    @J (486):

    Homosexuality is great, it certainly promotes the spread of mankind and the survival of our species.

    At 6.5 billion people strong, I think our species is doing just fine.

    I mean can you give one valid reason why homosexuality is right?

    Perhaps that the fact that gays are born gay just like whites are born white and women are born women means that it’s not a right/wrong kinda situation. “Mmm yea, wheelchairs. Because they help our legs to function in the standard way.”

    And if people are indeed born homosexual, how would that mutation be passed down by two men who don’t wish to have relationships with women?

    Why are you presuming that it’s genetic? One again, the consensus of science is that human sexuality is defined by numerous things. Since we all start off as genderless embryos, and we have to develop masculinely or femininely, then there is always potential for things to go the wrong way. God isn’t exactly known for making people perfect from birth.

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (488):

    Look, I just won’t take stances that I can’t back up. Therefore all my conclusions are as reasoned and researched as I can make then and I am always critical when it comes that things seem to conform to how I would like them to be. As a scientist, it’s hard to say anything can be known, but we can have degree of certainty about things.

    Love is neurological. We neurologists have mapped it in the brain. It’s a strange pattern that remains strong even when the aesthetic attraction has subsided showing the distinction between love and infatuation.

    So wait, you’re saying that homosexuality is a sin “in gods eyes” but not wrong?

    There’s no hyphen in bisexual.

    I find it reasonably easy to win an argument between faith and science purely because of how they work. Science is evidence based and all it’s conclusions have to be very transparent, coherent and logical. In science “truth” is demonstrable. Religion calls upon faith but faith is irrational.

    Faith is defined as believing without evidence. Without evidence, there is no reason to believe. In the end religion has no ground to stand on as science keeps occupying that ground.

  • Good Wolf

    @J (486):

    I feel obliged to turn your questioning on you. If homosexuality is not something that we’re born with, then it must be a choice.

    So… when did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex? Or did you not choose; only discover that you were straight? So me the evidence that it’s a choice that can counter everything that science has uncovered about how human sexuality works and develops.

    Also, for your viewing pleasure, some zoology:

  • The Truth

    Oh Wow.

    Like any good junky I just couldn’t stay away I guess. I just decided to double check this after yesterday and of course I was so enraged I just had to post something:

    Good Wolf, you mean after all of your theory, logic bla bla bla you arent even gay? You are bisexual? OMg… give me one scientific fact that backs up being “bisexual”. You are bisexual because you are a person that overthinks everything and cannot make sense of a world where everythign is NOT ruled by fact. Thats why you can justify science as being the supereme ruler of the world because it is based on theory and not fact. Its wishy washy based on the best evidence. (your words) wishy washy like being bisexual.

    Make up your mind and quit living in the middle. You are a text book case of someone who needs God and you cant see it because you wont allow yourself to. Please… I can tell by the pure hatred you have for Christianity, plus the fact that you spend ALL DAY on this website trying to prove people you dont even know wrong that you are empty. You are without any real or serious relatioship because you cant live with justifying everything with logic… do you raelly think you will have a full life without accepting certain things are just beacuse they are? You really think you can scienftifcally prove love?

    you are a clown. That empty space you feel in your gut as you type proves that you are incapable of being happy. When you figure out everything you need to figure out to live happy you will be to old to enjoy it.

    enjoy bum sex…. you are a classic internet nerd trying to make a mark on the world…

    The Truth… OUT

  • Good Wolf

    @The Truth (492):

    Reeeeal “Christian”, TT. I can see you deserve to be on a list like this one.

    Bisexuality is characterised by having romantic and/or sexual attraction to both genders. There is every reason to think that bisexuality exists when, for instance, some people are born with ambiguous physical sex and mental sexual identity (physical men which are mental women or vice versa, ie. drag queens and tomboys) and sexuality is the third part of that trio.

    As with everything else about being a human, sexuality falls on a spectrum, most people don’t even land at the absolute extremes. One reason this makes sense is that, as I’ve already explained, every human starts off as a genderless embryo which has to develop in either a masculine or feminine way. We all know that some men are more manly than others and some women more womanly than others. This is because sexual-dimorphism exists on a spectrum, and part of that is sexuality. 5-10% is the standard rate for sexuality not aligning with physical gender, not to be unexpected when so many things can and do go wrong.

    Make my mind up? As I’ve already explained, I tried that for years. You can chose to change what you’re attracted to and even if I could, why the fuk would I?

    Scientifically prove love? As if we haven’t long managed that. Do you go out of your way to scientifically illiterate?

    And yea I hate Christianity for how it’s ravaged the world inspiring endless contemptible men and evil men throughout it’s history. Before Rome converted, the paganistic people had a healthy attitude towards sex and it’s place and function in society. You monotheists like to see the sex and the world in black and white when things just do not work like that. I’m an antitheist because I’m aware that religion has contributed nothing to humanity and taken away a great deal.

    But never mind that, none of that has any bearing on the problem at hand: You still haven’t put forward a valid reason that A) homosexuality is a choice, and B) it’s a bad choice.

  • Troy

    “It is a terrible thing when such a one gets the idea he is a prophet or a messenger of God or a man with a mission to reform the world….He is capable of destroying religion and making the name of God odious by men.

    I must look for my identity, somehow, not only in God but in other men. I will never be able to find myself if I isolate myself from the rest of mankind as if I were a different kind of being.”

    Something to consider from Thomas Merton’s “New Seeds of Contemplation”.

  • The Truth

    Stop with the embryo bla bla stuff buddy…. Im pretty much done with this. I get that you are smart, and I get that that is the most important thing in the world to you, that and having a reason behind everything. I’ve dealt with people like you for years and I finally realized that while you have strength, intellect and wisdom, you lack humility, character and quite frankly a personality.
    I’m sorry that you got angry one day with the fact that the bible and your sexual urges were conflicting, but that’s hardly anyones fault.
    I’ve disproved everything you’ve said and you countered with an argument saying that science isn’t HARD FACT, science is based on theory in turn based on the best evidence at hand – so translated: Science proves nothing. Has science PROVEN that God never existed? No it has not…. if it did the world would be rocked, and you obviously have your opinion but if it was shared by the scientific community then we would be hearing more about it. Your “science” is based on your personal hatred and narrow minded view of the world.

    Scientists are human beings, and human beings (like priests) will skew everything with their own beliefs. I bet you I can find scientists… actually I know I can that believe 100% in God.

    You need to move on from your past, and realize that not everything in life can be explained. You want it to make sense, but not everything does.
    You can’t find a way in which religion has helped humanity? Here’s a quick start – World Vision. If you like, I can name 100,000 more organizations, charities and people who have helped the world much more than you have in the name of God.

    You are angry… I get it, but the fact that you want to make all of Christianity into a bad thing is just plain prejudice and thats that. Maybe Ill paint all of science with the same brush…. thanks for building the nuclear bomb dickhead!

    And just to crack your argument open a couple of more times: what would you say to the people out there that use words like “immoral” and “disgusting” to explain homosexuality – the vast majority of anti-gay people don’t approve of gay people not because of Christ (there are plenty of non-christian anti-gay people). You would use words like “intolerant” and “close minded” to describe them right? Well guess what, you are the exact same two things toward Christianity. Intolerant and close minded… and don’t try and tell me that you are justified in that because you used to be a believer in Christ and saw the error of your ways. No, a true open minded person still accepts that they may not know everything about something.

    You are an embarrassment to your own cause…. and guess what? Im taking off for the weekend so Ill let you get back to studying for your science degree since you are obviously a university student. One who LOVVES the cock.

    1. Science proves nothing beyond any doubt – proven
    2. Good Wolf is predictable and sad – proven
    3. People let their own issues cloud the facts… like good wolf – proven
    4. Good Wolf cant concede anything nor tolerate anyone elses opinion unless its proven beyond a doubt… and you know he hates Christmas to! – proven

    The Truth… OUT for the weekend.

  • Maggot

    @J (486): Homosexuality is great, it certainly promotes the spread of mankind and the survival of our species.

    People engage in all sorts of activities, sexual and otherwise, that do not “promote the spread of mankind and the survival of our species”. So why are you only calling homosexuality into question and nothing else? Take a good hard look at your reasons, homophobe.

    I mean can you give one valid reason why homosexuality is right?

    It is not a matter of it being considered “right”. It is a matter of: what is wrong with it? I challenge you to answer that. With something other than “because god says so”.

  • Kuban8r

    “Faith is defined as believing without evidence. Without evidence, there is no reason to believe. In the end religion has no ground to stand on as science keeps occupying that ground”

    This sentence is the reason we wont agree on much. I feel bad for you if you believe you can’t believe in something without evidence. I believe in my local football team but they don’t win a darned thing, nor do they provide that entertaining of a product. lol.

    I get where you are coming from GoodWolf, I do. I can respect your opinion, but I don’t think you can do the same. I’m not asking for you to say “hey, maybe this guy is right” but can you not tolerate anyone who believes strongly in Christ? I am a logial, intelligent and loving person who happens to. Does that make me an idiot or can you accept someone who doensn’t believe that science can explain everything.

    Yes I said that God probably (how can anyone know) thinks that homosexuality is a “sin” but he also teaches that “sin” is not a black and white term. I’m not going to speak for God, all I know is that I accept that gay people are gay for a reason, and I have 0 problem with it, so I’m not even sure what I am arguing about.

    Thank you for correcting “bisexual” in terms of spelling, but I think you and I have commited a few grammatical errors in our posts and I didn’t point out any of yours.


  • Maggot

    @The Truth (492): you are a classic internet nerd trying to make a mark on the world

    Pot, meet kettle.

    @The Truth (495): Im pretty much done with this.

    How many times are you going to keep saying that?

  • oouchan

    @Maggot (498): How many times are you going to keep saying that?

    Until he thinks he’s won. He even was so bold as to say that in one of his posts. How silly can he get?

  • gayisgross

    all gay people

    A) come from a broken home
    B) have other issues like depression or ADD
    C) did not have a strong family, or had a family that pushed something on them or didnt accept them
    D) Started off straight (kissing girls)

    Gay is just the result of people taking the sexual envelope a little further to make themselves feel better inside and then saying “hmm this isnt bad, I can be different than everyone else… I can be GAY”.

    you choose it… 100% for sure you do. If you dont think Katy Perry killed the “born gay” idea then I dont know what else to tell you.

    Plus you are sticking your #%#$# up another guys #%#% like… what is wrong with you? perverts.

    Im not christian at all… i just think [email protected] are digusting.

  • oouchan

    @gayisgross (500): Not a lick of evidence to back up your claim other than your homophobic notions.
    Good luck with that.

  • the Truth

    Sorry Maggot: it takes my buddy alot longer to get over here and pick me up. One of these times I wont reply and thats when Ill really be gone.

    Sorry ouuchman: i’ve already put a winning argument into place but stubborn people just never admit when someone else is right. Why dont you guys go do something with your day? LISTVERSE is MY WORLD right?

  • gayisgross

    hey oochman if someone would do a study they would learn quickly that I am right. why do gays have so much power over the internet? Where I live the only gay people live in shame and keep their mouths shut, except for maybe the big gay pride parade every year when all the [email protected] dress up in thongs and pink tights.

    Ya, great way to fight for your cause – dress up like a S&M bondange creep. Digusting old men. the whole world hates gay people, what dont you perverts get?

  • oouchan

    @the Truth (502): Why dont you guys go do something with your day? LISTVERSE is MY WORLD right?

    Really? Coming from someone who says they are leaving and keeps showing up? And can’t spell my name?

    @gayisgross (503): Another one that can’t spell…*sigh*

    I am not gay and not a man.
    So you have several points against you now. Homophobe, bad at grammar and spelling and making an ass out of yourself. Way to go. I like gays and lesbians and chrisitans and muslims and lots of different types of people. I just can’t and will not tolerate bigots. You also don’t know anything but sprout crap that has been force-fed to you. If you do some research and learn to stay out of people’s bedrooms, then this world might be a better place.

  • deeeziner

    @Maggot (498):

    “Pot, meet kettle.”

    Hello Pot. Pleased to meet you.
    Hello Kettle, I see that you’re black. (proudly thumping his chest.)I am black also.

    Thanks for the mental scenario. :)

  • Good Wolf

    @The Truth (495):
    Stop with the embryo bla bla stuff buddy

    Why? Understanding the development of neural systems in the brain explains why homo/hetero/bisexuality is set before birth. If you’re not going to look at the science counter claims to your demented “choice” idea then you’ve no point debating human sexuality.

    science isn’t HARD FACT
    Actually it is, though you don’t understand what that means. Facts are observations we make about the universe, though individual facts don’t tell us much about the underlying mechanisms that brought about those facts. A fact would be saying that a person is sexually/romantically attracted to members of their own gender, but that doesn’t explain why or how that became so. Hunting more multitudes of facts and seeing what they indicate allows us to produce hypotheses, which we test and retest and rewrite if need be until our predictions match our test results. Then we can say our hypothesis, now theory, adequately explains the known facts.

    Has science PROVEN that God never existed?
    That hasn’t got a thing to do with it, however no – you can’t prove a negative. You can’t prove that there isn’t a flying spaghetti monster, and invisible pink unicorn or a small teapot orbiting the sun between the earth and mars. Why? Because you can’t disprove negatives. I can’t disprove, gremlins, fairies, or invisable pink unicorns either, but would you seriously reason that I should therefore believe in these things?

    Do you believe in Zeus? Can you PROVE that Zeus cannot exist?

    and realize that not everything in life can be explained.
    Well no, but the point is to make progress.

    World Vision. If you like, I can name 100,000 more organizations, charities and people who have helped the world much more than you have in the name of God.
    LOL. The godless aren’t charitable argument. You seriously don’t know counter apologetics very well. You should spend five minutes researching notheist charities. And why would nontheists be charitable in the name of nontheism either? They don’t, those who are charitable find some charity or shelter to donate time, money, resources to even to theistic organisations. But still .. – a major charity site making personal loans to impoverished people around the world.
    Top lender… “Atheists & Agnostics” ……… $1,616,175.00
    #2 “Kiva Christians” ………….$976,575.00
    #7 “LGBT” ………..$427,300.00

    Don’t be shocked to hear nontheists have hearts.

    Maybe Ill paint all of science with the same brush…. thanks for building the nuclear bomb dickhead!
    The crusades, the Spanish inquisition, Witch burning, WWII, the institutionalised rape and abuse of thousands of children by catholic authority figures, the spread of the lie in africa that condoms cause aids. is none of that ringing any bells?

    Well guess what, you are the exact same two things toward Christianity.
    Christianity is actually a choice where all sexualities are not.

    No, a true open minded person still accepts that they may not know everything about something.
    Quite true but as of yet, I’ve seen nothing that remotely credits your religion with good let alone truth. Faith is hard to sell to an ex-faithful because we see the irrationality of it.

    1. The Truth (an incredibly egotistical name to be sure) doesn’t understand how science works at all. Proven
    2. TT dodges arguments and shifts goal posts, and is not able to put forward an argument that can’t be shot down. proven.
    3. right back at you. proven.
    4. TT would sooner pander to his beliefs and prejudices than criticise his on stances rationally… and you know he believes that Christmas is Christian holiday when it’s in actual fact a far far older pagan holiday celebrating many other gods. proven.

    See you after the weekend. ^^

  • deeeziner

    @gayisgross (500): @gayisgross (503):

    Wow—Jut wow. I’ve heard that one facet of homophobia is a secret fear of being gay. I don’t know if there is any true fact there, but your comments make me wonder.

    @oouchan (504):

    “If you do some research and learn to stay out of people’s bedrooms, then this world might be a better place.”

    Well said, Ouchan! One of the best responses I’ve read so far!!!

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (497):
    I get where you are coming from GoodWolf, I do. I can respect your opinion, but I don’t think you can do the same. I’m not asking for you to say “hey, maybe this guy is right” but can you not tolerate anyone who believes strongly in Christ?

    Hey, love the sinner; hate the sin, know what I’m saying? :P

    Most of my friends are Christians and it’s never been a problem, though if the discussion comes up, I’m not one to back down. You sound like a swell guy, but you can’t expect me to agree with everything about you can you. Otherwise, I think, we would have to be the same individual.

    I’ll let you in on a little secret. Don’t tell anyone! I don’t actually believe that science can explain everything! Oh goodness, sounds crazy doesn’t it? Coming from the science guy! [sigh] No, for me to say that I believe science can explain everything would be like believing that the Write brothers could fly to the moon. No scientists believes that science can explain everything, science knows it can’t explain everything otherwise it would stop. You can’t fault science for being an on going process of discovery. But just because there is gaps in our knowledge, doesn’t mean you can crowbar whatever fairy tail most appeals to you.

    The god of the gaps notion is a logical fallacy.

    Well if that’s what you think of the sin of homosexuality then your concept of sin is pretty redundant isn’t it? Sin in that sense doesn’t really seem to mean anything. And while we’re on the subject, I have to say that it’s one of the reasons I’m glad that I don’t have reason to believe it. In a just system, a crime and a proportionate punishment. Sending sinners to hell for their sins is unjust because it is an unproportional punishment. Infinite punishment for finite sin. That’s absolute evil. And believers would say “Well god can’t have those souls in heaven!” implying that sending them back to earth again or simply deleting the soul from existence aren’t more reasonable options here.

    Sorry about the correction thing is just that that hyphen annoys me so.

  • deeeziner

    P.S. Sorry I mis-spelled your name, oouchan. Will the shackle clad guy please get in here and spank me.

  • Maggot

    @the Truth (502): One of these times I wont reply and thats when Ill really be gone.

    Suuure you will. What happened to your “oh I’m so kind, I never said being gay was bad” mantra? And then you commence dropping derogatory comments like “enjoy bum sex” and “One who LOVVES the cock” towards another person. You call yourself “The Truth”? LMAO, more like “The Disingenuous Liar”.

  • Vitimus

    This is a comprihensive catalogue of which that offends your lord and which moves, in a small way, the christian faith towards a more certain end.

    Do not use God as a foundation for your own hate, though it maybe presumptious on my part to tell you how to found your own ingorance.

    We live too short to suffer too long.

  • bucslim

    @deeeziner (508):

    I usually have to pay extra for people to spank me.

  • Maggot

    @gayisgross (503): Where I live the only gay people live in shame and keep their mouths shut

    So you prefer a world where innocent people are intimidated and oppressed to one where people are free to do as they please so long as no harm is done to anyone else? What happens when something YOU enjoy is frowned upon, or worse, you are given a beat down because of it?

  • Maggot

    @bucslim (511): Yeah, and I’m still waiting for my check, you friggin deadbeat.

  • oouchan

    @deeeziner (508): That’s ok…everyone has faults. *looks around for a paddle*

    @bucslim (511): Your check bounced, sir.

  • Maggot

    @oouchan (514): I KNEW I should have insisted on cash.

  • Good Wolf

    This discussion has taken a rather refreshing turn! :]

  • deeeziner

    @bucslim (512):

    Perhaps this is because of your BAJ, although in this case substitute the word Bucslim for beaver……

  • bucslim

    @gayisgross (503):

    Where I live, gay people unashamedly play leap frog and hop scotch in the buff with their mouths wide open.

    Gay people living in shame and keep their mouths shut? Where do you live 1950’s Iowa?

  • bucslim

    @deeeziner (517):

    Aren’t you supposed to be cued up for a spankin?

  • bucslim

    @Maggot (513):
    @oouchan (514):


  • deeeziner

    @bucslim (520):

    Sorry Daddy…I’ve been a baaaad girl.

  • Kuban8r

    “love the sinner, hate the sin” – I never figured that one could be used the other way. Lol.

    I don’t fault science for continuing to discover new things, I owe the few extra months I got from my Grandfather to scientific progress in cancer research. The funny thing though? The day he died we all said a little prayer that his family from across the country would be able to make it there to see him before he passed (this wasn’t a bad thing has he was not conscious nor in pain), and he died 1 hour after the last cousin arrived at the hospital. The nurses called us at 3 AM to come in and say goodbye has he had another hour or so to live, and he held on until 4 PM the next day. Now, you could argue that his medications or that his strong will kept him going, but how do we know we didn’t get a little help. I’m not asking to debate this scenario please, but it’s just an example to me of when God was there for our family. But, I do realize that without scientific progress, we would never have gotten those extra months.

    I don’t use Christ as a “fairy tale” to fill in the gaps from science, I look at science the same way I look at anything else that advances our world. Although I believe there is a God watching over us, mankind can take credit for all of this achievements, but in the same breath mankind must take responbility for all of its own shortcomings (including war, murder, torture, etc)

    Sin to me is not the thing you do to go to hell. I don’t believe Hell is the punishment for sinning, as you would be correct that it would be an unjust system. I believe sin is addicting, sin is something that takes you away from God and I believe the only true sin that CAN (not will) send you to hell is denouncing God. Now I don’t think you are going to hell, I’m not about to make that call from an online chat (I don’t know you). There are too many priests and pastors out there saying “this , this and this sends you to hell” of course you can punch holes in that theory, what’s fair about going to hell for stealing bread you need to live?

    I think you are very intelligent and probably doing many good things for humanity, and I’m glad that you seen to have found an existence that makes you happy after your struggle with faith. I only started in on this topic because as I don’t go around telling people to accept Christ or burn in hell, I feel the need to defend myself when I hear someone say Christianity is waste of time.

  • Kuban8r

    ugh… my grammar above is horrible. Stupid Fridays.

  • gayisgross

    I don live in Iowa… I live in the real world.

    Fact is you can talk all about acceptance and your fellow man and all this, but gays are still not accepted in the real world and gay marriage is still frowned upon or illegal all over North America because people like me continue to be in the vast majority.

    Gay is wrong… stop F$^@#ing mens @ssholes to try and bring balance to your life. Get a hobby.

  • chris

    While number 1 may be a scumbag I don’t know how racist comments get you higher on the list than impregnating 12 year old girls, or murdering people….

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (522):

    I can’t think like you. When you de-convert, your whole structure of thinking changes. I can’t believe it because there’s no evidence to. I can’t believe in Jesus when there’s no more than hearsay accounts of the guy written 70 years after the death date at the earliest. I couldn’t think that because something fortunate happened to me, that it was because it wasn’t a coincidence. I had one man use his daughter as proof to me. Why? Because she was deathly sick and she got better.

    I said, doctors know the painful truth at many people considered healthy will become very sick, even die for unknown reasons, and conversely, they know that some sick people have inexplicable remissions. It’s part of the chaos of a world in a deterministic system. We get lucky sometimes to the point of not dying (even I have a story like that) but it’s hubris.

    I can’t think like that because I won’t let myself believe a comfortable lie when I know very well that there is no rationality in it. I’m not afraid of not knowing and not understanding reality in it’s minuscule detail because I know such knowledge is beyond human reach. Somehow pandering to the idea that it’s alright and that we’re being looked after is a little bit insulting.

    Again, I am an atheist because I know of no reason to believe it.

  • oouchan

    @gayisgross (524): I don live in Iowa… I live in the real world.

    So…Iowa doesn’t exist in your real world?

    Fact is you can talk all about acceptance and your fellow man and all this, but gays are still not accepted in the real world and gay marriage is still frowned upon or illegal all over North America because people like me continue to be in the vast majority.

    Thankfully…your numbers are dwindling day by day.

    Gay is wrong… stop F$^@#ing mens @ssholes to try and bring balance to your life. Get a hobby.

    You seem to have a mighty fixation on men’s a$$holes. Hiding something? Or is that your hobby?

    Got a great suggestion…keep your opinions to yourself and stop sticking your nose into people’s bedrooms where it doesn’t belong. What consenting adults do behind close doors is none of your or my business.

  • Good Wolf

    @gayisgross (524):

    What if you were so made to want to have sex with men? Surely you’d feel hard done by that people were so opinionated as to give a shit about what you did in the privacy of your own bedroom with other consenting adults.

    You think it’s gross. Gays think sex with girls is gross. “Grossness” is a relative term, not universal like you seem to think.

  • bucslim

    @gayisgross (524):

    Look jerk, I’m sorry you can seem to get your head around the fact that we all live on the same planet and that we might need to try to get along with each other.

    I’m not even the biggest gay rights supporter either, but have some respect. The fact of the matter is, you’re just a bigot who’s hung up on what other people do behind closed doors. You can rant and rave about how wrong it is but you’re not solving anything or adding anything interesting to the discussion. You’re worried an awful lot about other people’s asses when you have your head up yours.

    This is coming from a guy who lost his wife to another woman – I have every right to be pissed off and bigoted, but I CHOOSE not to because it isn’t going to change anything. In fact, it made me realize how ugly and cruel people like you are.

  • bucslim

    *can’t seem to get your head around.

  • Kuban8r

    I see what your’re saying. I can’t really find fault In someone not accepting something because there is no proof nor any reason to believe it.
    I guess what I am saying is just because there is no proof for something, doesn’t mean that it does not exist so I don’t think it can be “lie” if we just don’t know.
    We can hold opinions that it is a lie, or that it is true and at the end of the day that’s all each of us really has. Opinions.
    As you say – undertanding each detail about the world is beyond human reach, I completley agree with that.

    You were kind enough to share your proffession with me so I don’t mind doing the same. I am an accountant and I work for a large hospital, so I hear this kind of discussion all the time. I don’t know if you will find a better arena for the “is there a God debate” than in a hospital.

    I won’t try and push anything on you, I hope one day you see a reason to at least ponder it, but if you don’t I hope you live a good life!
    I have to bow out of this now though as the day is coming to an end… till next time! Keep fit and have fun.

  • Kuban8r


    Fred Phelps? Is it you….? Coulda fooled me.

  • Good Wolf

    But if there’s no proof for something, and it’s not disprove, why believe positively that it is real?

    I can’t disprove that there is a tiny teapot orbiting between earth and Mars, I can’t disprove fairies, the invisible pink unicorn or the flying spaghetti monster. That’s why science only deals in positive evidence. You can’t disprove negative claims.

    Now, that said, if I were to believe something with no evidence and therefore no reason, especially something as big as a religion, isn’t believing in something for no reason essentially lying to oneself? Even if it were true, I have no reason to think it is, and therefore no reason to believe it, until evidence emerged which changed that.

    Thanks for the more civilised talk though, I don’t think there is any better time to ponder such things than after debates, though I don’t believe that anything will happen to make me change my stance on god, the more I dissect peoples rationale, the more I find it inadequate.

    Have fun.

  • Kuban8r

    (Still have a few minutes, just trying to shut everything down for the day which ends in half an hour)

    I guess you are right. I can’t fight a battle trying to prove the existence of God… I will admit that is impossible.
    I don’t even really have the knowledge of the bible to heavily debate Christianity. As I said, my personal experiences coupled with my teachings as a youth have created my belief system. I have seen what I believe to be the Lord’s work in my own life and in others, but that can’t be used as fact in a debate since there are always other reasons “miracles” happen.

    I can’t leave you with a rationale you can dissect, I can just leave you with my thoughts and I can leave with yours. It’s true that nothing stirs up your thoughts like a debate and I admit I will take what you have said with me into the weekend… thats a lot to think about, but in no way will it have any bearing on my faith in Christ, I just like to learn.
    Yes, thanks for the civilised conversation, it was a nice change.

    Looking forward to the next list.

  • 596

    Horrible people…. I would like to add as a bonus that there is a group of bikers called the Patriot Guard that by request attend funerals for fallen soldiers and stop people like the Westboro Baptists from coming anywhere near the grieving families.

    Here is their mission statement:

    The Patriot Guard Riders is a diverse amalgamation of riders from across the nation. We have one thing in common besides motorcycles. We have an unwavering respect for those who risk their very lives for America’s freedom and security. If you share this respect, please join us. We don’t care what you ride, what your political views are, or whether you’re a “hawk” or a “dove”. It is not a requirement that you be a veteran. It doesn’t matter where you’re from or what your income is. You don’t even have to ride. The only prerequisite is Respect. Our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family. Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives.

    1. Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.
    2. Shield the mourning family and friends from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors.

    We accomplish the latter through strictly legal and non-violent means.

    To those of you who are currently serving and fighting for the freedoms of others, at home and abroad, please know that we are backing you. We honor and support you with every mission we carry out, and we are praying for a safe return home for all.

  • Good Wolf

    @596 (535):

    That’s soo damn awesome. I think Anonymous needs to take a break from Scientology and give patrolling for trolls at funeral processions a go!

  • Gay

    Flamehorse is homophobic as is obvious from this list!!!!

  • gayisgross

    You guys think being gay is something your born with! HA RETARDS!! take a look at all the guys you know.. something happened in their life that made them gay! How are you guys so stupid. What does science have to do with guys F#%@#ing guys? I’m majoring in physics so I’m already smarter than any of you pro-gay freaks and I can tell you that there is nothing natural that happens in any fetus that makes them gay.

    How can any educated person think that? you think I am a dumb biggot? Im pretty much a genius.

  • Blake

    A very, very good list, one of the best.
    Keep ’em coming!

  • Alexander

    @the Truth(454)

    Where did you see me blaming christ for it?
    I blame the people who abuse the bible for their own bigotry. That’s why I said anti-christian (which in fact, I’m also not really, depending on the type of christian), and not anti-christ.
    It’s just a real pity how most christians are very much unlike their christ, and don’t even try to be more like him.
    If mor christians tried to be a bit more christ-like, we would have a lot less problems in this world.

    And stop calling homosexuality a lifestyle choice. Homosexuality is neihter a choice, nor a lifestyle. It’s someone who loves another human being, coincidentally of the same sex.

    Not that I really try support any side of that discussion. Although I’m 100% certain homosexuality is NOT a choice, and consider anyone who says otherwise an ignorant bigot, there should be NO discussion about that: Even if someone, some day in their young adulthood, could just decide “from now on I’m only going to fall in love with my own sex” (what a ridiculous idea!!!) then that’s their own business, nobody elses, and everyone should just keep their prejudiced opinion to themselves. Love is beautiful, and so is sincere, warm and intimate sexuality, between two consenting people, whatever sex, colour, culture, they may have.

  • oouchan

    @gayisgross (538): How can any educated person think that? you think I am a dumb biggot? Im pretty much a genius.

    Really now? You can’t spell or use punctuation correctly and you call yourself a genius.
    Epic Fail.

  • bucslim

    Yes, gayisgross, we think you’re a dumb biggot. And we think that because you can’t spell, punctuate and have bigoted views.

    And make sure you spell it that way when you hand in your fisicks tests.


  • gayisgross

    Im not wasting my time worrying about puncutaion or spelling for a bunch of gay loners.
    What times star trek on tonight? OP dont care!

    Stop whining about God… do what you want to do in life and stop worrying about phony hell. just dont be a fag.

  • Good Wolf

    @gayisgross (543):

    You sound hot, gayisgross. You want to meet up? I like to bum angry men!

  • puffin

    I am very confused. There are several people on here saying that these examples prove that all religion is evil and the root aof all the worlds problems. How do they not see that they’re just as bigoted as all of the people on the list? they talk about how religion promotes violence, hatred and prejudice but they themselves are blaming everything wrong in the world on one group of people. That’s about as bigoted as it gets. I’m Christian and have friends who are Jewish, Muslim, Atheist and from other strains of Christianity.Stop telling me that we’re not allowed to get along anymore.

  • matt s

    whoever wrote this list is a religious nerd and inserted heavy bias into it.

    writing re: the haitian revolution
    “Whether that pact was sworn or not”

    ..really? give me a break, dude, you sound like a christian apologist.

  • matt s

    also, as others have stated, the author is DEFINITELY an ignorant homophobe. yea buddy, you keep trying to turn those sinners around. fucking idiot.

  • matt s

    “anti-homosexuality, which is one of the easiest, if not the easiest, sin to denounce by means of quoting the Bible. God condemns homosexuality at least twice”

    are you for real, man? yea, something that is (debateably) condemned a whopping 2 times is DEFINITELY way easier to denounce than something like, say, murder or maybe any of the other things denounced in the ten commandments or maybe a ton of the other issues that are harped on.

    for the record, I’m not even a christian getting mad at you for being an idiot (if you must know, I’m an atheist), I’m just a historian who’s offended by your poor research and writing skills as well as your blatant willingness to make bold blanket statements without backing them up with evidence.

  • Diane R

    Since almost none of these are Christians (except perhaps Robertson), Im not sure why you called this the “Christian list.”

  • value25

    Why do you all even care if people are gay? If you’re straight, then be straight and if you’re gay, be gay. The fact that someone is gay is really not gonna affect your life if you are straight. I should know seeing as I have gay friends, and the fact that they are gay has never affected our friendship in any way. Go ahead and believe that love is a sin for all I care, just stop taking it away from other people. It’s absolutely absurd for the author of this list to say that someone can be “converted” from homosexuality. I’m not gonna say that religion causes all evil and the world would be better off without it because it has provided some moral order in the world. But the whole gay bashing thing is one unfortunate side effect of religion that I think we could do without.

  • J

    @Good Wolf (487): First of all I believe that God created the universe but I don’t pretend to know how. I don’t think it just all happened in an instant but rather could have been guided by God ( big bang, evolution.). Also you’re such a genius to pick things that don’t apply to modern times and call the whole thing absurd. Don’t pull an ass out of a pit on Sunday isn’t the main idea, it’s to keep the sabbath holy. So go ahead and use your high school debate tactics I can see through them.

    As for God’s moral compass with the Amalekites, you may have heard of a group of people called the Jews. They haven’t had the easiest history and they have had to make war on several groups of people. And before you go saying that’s a horrible sin the Bible states that the Lord is a man of war. Killing is a sin but this guy named Jesus died and defeated death and sin.

  • Asdf

    For those of you that need another reason to hate Fred Phelps, he picketed at Fred Rogers’ funeral. You know, Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood? Apparently Mr. Rogers, the nicest, most beloved person in the United States is burning in Hell too.

  • The Truth

    Ohhh poor Good Wolf… where do I begin?

    First, you cant win an argument by taking a point someone has made and then comparing your flaw to someone else. I said that I could paint all of science with the same brush by saying “thanks for the atom bomb dickhead” and you gave me a list of supposed Catholic attrocities throughout history. Way to not make any point at all – congrats! Thats called deflection and it doesnt work in debate. Poor little socially retarded scientist you are.

    Also, you definitley cant win a debate by ignoring a valid point and then trying to steer the conversation in another direction. Case in point – you told me that Christianity pretty much does nothing positive for society at all and I said hey… I can name 100,000 christian organizations that do help the world, and you countered by saying “Christians arent the only ones that help the world”. UGH OF COURSE NOT… thats not what I said at all, I simply disproved your point and you chose again to try and deflect the conversation somewhere else.

    Oh oh!! my other favorite thing you try and do is conviniently forget details (strange that you are such a detailed person) and try and make points with half bits of information. Like trying to stick it to me that I am an idiot for thinking Christmas is for Christians when its actually a pagan holiday. WRONG – the winter solace has always been a pagan holiday, but CHRISTMAS is defined as the holiday that celebrates the birth of Christ. Its completley irrelevant now that the pagans happened to celebrate that date a billion years ago.
    Conception is reality…

    Oh, and I do understand science. It was the loser class that they forced us to take before we moved on to actual imporant things. Ya… you cant make an arguemnt that science is based on theory, based on evidence, based on someones idea. Fact is, we have things that are 100% fact that science has proven and GUESS WHAT? fag sex being something you are born with is not one of them.

    You have no point to stand on! And you know the best part? Gays will never be accepted in your lifetime so why stop fighting Christianity and just try and save yourself!

  • Good Wolf

    @The Truth (554): @The Truth (555):

    It’s so very easy to simply declare that gays aren’t born gay, it’s very easy to state how reality works. Trouble is that reality does not conform to what we would like it to be.

    You say that it’s not an in-born trait and that people who believe that need a slap in the face. Well, I can tell you that it doesn’t take long looking at what science has found investigating the subject to see that it very much does seem to be in born – as with heterosexuality.

    So where the hell is your counter evidence? When the hell do we make this choice? Who could we have the ability to rewire our bloody brains?

    You’re living in a dreamworld.

  • Good Wolf

    And even if it were a choice as so many scientifically illiterate Christians proclaim, what fukkin difference does that make?

    If it’s somehow a choice then people have every right in the world to make that choice at their own leisure.

  • Maggot

    @The Truth (555): It would be a nice world if we could all justify our fucked up decisions by saying we were born that way

    Desparately clinging to the thought that it is a choice is one thing, but now you equate it to being a “fucked up” choice? Why do you think that?

    I hang out with so many gays that I pretty much consider myself in the club.

    Too bad that they don’t see through your bullshit persona and know you as the shamelessly lying and judgemental homophobe that you are. There there, that’s a good Christian.

  • Advocate

    As for Reverend Moon, he is not anti-semetic, as you claim. People of all races and all previous religious backgrounds are welcomed into the Unification church. Without proper research on this topic, you cannot qualify yourself to understand the theology behind a religion. Asserting your opinions on others is your right, but claiming them as fact is simply misleading and arrogant to think that your 5 minute wikipedia debriefing would suffice.

  • ianz09

    Oh, dash it all! I’ve missed so much, and I gotta weigh in. Alright, to all the nasty bum-humpers out there, God says you’re unnatural, and you are really just a smack in the face to us good people.

    Sorry, I like doing impressions of idiots. Makes me feel smarter. Anyway, I won’t take time to go back and individually address all the homophobic users on here. So if you guys read this (you know who you are), please, by all means, take it personal.

    Any regular user on here knows I am a Christian. I avidly profess it, sometimes annoyingly so. So, as one of the few intelligent Christians actually voicing an opinion on this thread I will say this about gays: So what?

    So it is a big sin. So God hates homosexuality. So the Bible says “No Steve, we don’t do that!” Who the hell cares? I would be privileged to visit your community in which rampantly gay gimps sodomize every bystander and convert all to the gay lifestyle against their will. Simply because, I’ve never heard of a place in which that has happened!

    And by the way, no, I do not think homosexuality is a sin, anymore than swearing is a fucking sin. And if I’m wrong? No skin off my nose. It isn’t like the gay community is knocking on my door. But you know who is knocking on my door? Mormons. Johos. BAPTISTS. Until they start banging on my door while I’m eating Cheetos in my boxers and watching Scrubs reruns, they have a much higher standing in my book than The Watchtower. I have never had a homo attempt to insert anything at all in anywhere on my body, nor have I ever been touched or even spoken to in an inappropriate manner. God doesn’t hate gay people. But the Bible sure is a damned convenient excuse to be homophobic. If the Bible said anything that could ever be construed as intolerance for colored skin, you people who are against gay marriage would be the same ones burning crosses and spraying marchers with a fire hose.

    No, you can bitch and moan all day about how homosexuals and their dirty ways, and their corrupting of our innocent children. But you would be wrong, at all times. And nobody likes a whiner. As for those defending homosexuality, props, as usual. As for those opposed to it: I don’t have work scheduled for a few days, nor classes. Collecting the goats of gullible idiots is a preferred pass time of mine, and to be frank, I’ve got nothing better to do. So please, respond! It’ll give me another thing to do besides eat Doritos and play Modern Warfare 2. In my boxers.

    And now that that is out of my system, it is bed time for Ian. Out of the past 48 hours, only six were dedicated to sleep. And the only I like more than Modern Warfare 2, not wearing pants, eating Cinnabon, or any combination thereof, is sleeping in.

    Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta.

  • oouchan

    @ianz09 (560): You know you are awesome, right?
    Thanks for that. :)

  • Abs

    I havent had time to read through all the comments so Im hoping beyond hope that someone is on the same wavelenght as me. Flamehorse??? Your lists are all terrible. They contain interesting subject matter but they are written sloppily and….well…just terribly! Does someone not proof-read these? I struggle to understand what you’re even talking about or what point you’re trying to make half the time and it distracts me from the list itself…you and your appalling writing style. It’s like you’ve just taken different sentences from varying sources, slopped them all together and hoped that they made sense! Honestly! And also….what’s with the gay-bashing??? “It’s a sin it’s a sin it’s a sin”. If that’s your opinion keep it to yourself, don’t use a list as a catalyst to convey your bias. JFrater you should have picked up on that and this list shouldn’t have been allowed up or should have at least been altered before being put up and all the homosexual-bashing bits taken out

  • ianz09

    @oouchan (561): Thumbs up. I write it out because to my knowledge, there are no emoticons for thumbs up.

    As a side note, I hereby revoke my pro-gay views. I have just found evidence to support that gays are destroying our communities:


    Those horrible homos….

  • porkido

    Please ianz, don’t hurt ’em…

  • porkido


    You continue to claim not to be a homophobe, yet you keep making comments like:

    “One who LOVVES the cock.”


    “enjoy bum sex.”

    So it seems that you are either a self-loathing closet-case, or don’t have the stones to admit your bigotry…

    Even a retarded abortion-survivor like gayisgross has the courage to say what he thinks…but, even with the anonymity of the internet, you can’t scrape together the guts…


  • Gov

    Freddy came to Canada to burn our flag in protest of the passing of gay marriage. Unfortunately he failed to realize that flags in Canada are amost universally made of nylon and don’t burn!! I’m sure that the devil was involved

  • Theo

    I think Benny Hinn should be added to this list. Even bumped up to ther top!

  • Tammy

    Of the ten mentioned here all but (possibly) one are not followers of Jesus at all. They are false teachers and devout followers of Jesus know that. What happens is, like with other religions, that the phonies make huge problems for the rest of us. To know what Jesus teaches, ready your Bible and don’t depend on man.

  • krypto092108

    I would have started this list with the Jim Jones at number one and David Koresh at number two.
    Fred Phelps, should be at number ten, seeing as he’s a scummy bag of pus like the others on this list….

  • Dingolite

    You left out the Pope.

  • [youtube=]

  • Rguy

    How can someone be against a trait. Homosexuality is not a behavior, lifestyle nor choice. I grew up and live in a very rural state. I knew I was gay from the time I was a small boy though I didn’t know what that meant until I was about 13 or 14. I never chose to be gay. and I’m not gay as a result of culture or environment because i didn’t know any other gay people until my senior year in high school. It’s a trait of mine, like my height or hair color. How can you be ‘against’ homosexuality. There are no humans responsible for it to be ‘against’. If you don’t like it than take it up with nature or God. Also, I just started dating in my mid twenties and yet have been gay my whole life so it’s not a behavior nor a lifestyle. It’s very simple, if you want to know if it’s a choice ask gay people! Only we would know for sure.

  • porkido


    This discussion always gets me steamed. I understand the arguments, and the rhetorical reasons for them, but…it almost sounds like an apology for being gay…”There’s nothing I can do…it wasn’t my choice.”

    I don’t apologize for my sexuality, because it’s nobody’s F*CKING BUSINESS. If someone doesn’t like it, they can go F*CK themselves. Whether I chose it, or was born this way, is completely irrelevant.

  • Rguy

    Porkido: I can see what you mean, but I didn’t choose it. The lie that I chose it said by people who don’t even know me leads to the thinking that it is then OK to discriminate against me. I just think that many people don’t understand what a sexual orientation is. They think that homosexuality is a behavior that is all just about sex and not anything else, but Heterosexuality is an orientation not a behavior. I agree that we should not apologize for our sexuality. But I think it is important for people to know the truth about it.

  • porkido

    I agree with you…it just makes me angry.

  • ianz09

    I think it is irrelevant either way. WHo cares if you chose or not? It’s like people bitching about whether or not Obama was a Muslim. His opponents said he was, his supporters said he wasn’t, but only Colin Powell said “so what if he is?”

  • porkido


  • Good Wolf

    @ you last few posters.

    As right as you are, that if it were a choice that still doesn’t matters, the reason the religious homophobes will cling to that idea is because you can fairly criticise people for their choices and behaviours – not their predispositions (though they’d do that too if it weren’t for all the political correctness about these days). Their criticism would still be lacking merit but that doesn’t bother them.

    The other thing is that if it was a choice, logic dictates that homosexuality is reversible. These two misapprehensions, in their eyes, makes you responsible for being gay.

  • porkido


    Ah, but if it’s genetic, it can be “fixed” medically…

    And that’s the crux of it: their “arguments” are not based on consistency or reason, but on ignorance and/or hate…and they will cling to this bigotry, no matter what…

    So f*ck ’em. Let them hate if they want. As long as the laws reflect equality (and the courts will have no choice but to eventually arrive there), I couldn’t care less what they think.

  • ianz09

    @Good Wolf (579): Yup. People will hate whether it is “justified” or not. Sad reality of it.

  • Good Wolf

    @porkido (580):
    People have this idea in their heads that anything “from birth” must be genetic so the immediate response to us telling it like it is is “There’s no gay gene!” Ignoring the fact that there are genes with have observable influence on sexuality, born-in traits aren’t always genetic but environmental/circumstantial.

    There is always this huge ignorance to these basic realities in anti-gay “arguments”.

    I’m with you. fuc’em. I’m not going to feel guilty for sharing my special toy with the other boys (as House put it) or with the girls – it doesn’t matter.

  • Rguy

    porkido: I think the sickest thing is that these people say that they ‘KNOW’ more about us than we do. How can some stranger claim that we made a choice that we KNOW we didn’t make.

  • Good Wolf

    @Rguy (583):

    They have to, their religion obligates them to. That’s the poisoning affect it has on people.

  • Curious Bystander

    It would be very easy for me to simply say “there is no God” and forget it and move on, but I’m a big believer in cause and effect. I look around at the universe and I can’t help but feel that there was something that happened at the beginning of the universe, something probably beyond our comprehension that occurred to get this universe started.

    I find it very difficult to believe that the universe “just happened” without any outside intervention. I have no idea what that outside intervention was, but for an atheist to say that there is no supreme being, I mean, how do they know? I believe, as Einstein once said when he was asked if he believed in God “there has to be something behind the energy”.

    This whole Bible thing is obviously a crock and I feel sorry for the poor souls that buy into it, but there is no way that I can simply discount the possibility that there is something going on that we just don’t know about and just as I am astonished with why people would believe in the Bible, I am also amazed at the fact that there are people that dismiss the possibility that a creator might exist, even though you look around and see tons of evidence in favor of it. How can anybody be religious or an atheist? To me, either position is illogical.

  • Good Wolf

    @Curious Bystander (585):
    “but for an atheist to say that there is no supreme being, I mean, how do they know?

    We don’t know there is no god – we just do not know that there is. We certainly won’t believe positively that there is a god without any evidence. Atheism is a stand from evidence, it’s belieflessness.

  • krypto092108

    @Dingolite (571):

    OOPS! So I did… LOLZ!
    The Present Pope should be here, too…

  • Curious Bystander

    My question to Atheists is: Do you have any thought as to how the universe came into existence. Indeed, how existence itself was created.

  • Good Wolf

    @Curious Bystander (588):

    We don’t know anything beyond the first event because time itself was a product. We might speculate but we don’t hinge or view of reality on that.

  • Jay Poe

    @Curious Bystander (588): That’s what science is for. Science constantly looks for answers and tests hypotheses until they can prove something to be true. Look how far we have come and how much we have learned in the last few hundred years. Think how much we will learn in the next few hundred years and how far technology will take us. We already have the Hadron collider to study about the “big bang theory”. I believe we will eventually find out a lot of unanswered questions.

    My problem is how anyone can just say they know for sure how the universe was formed. I don’t pretend to know, but at least science is trying to prove it instead of settling on what the bible says and what our parents tells us and our parent’s parents tells us.

    Without any empirical evidence I don’t believe fully in any theory.

  • Curious Bystander

    @Good Wolf (586): Evidence does exist in the form of the universe. Like you, I don’t know if there is a creator or not, but it seems to me that there is a lot of evidence to support the fact that there is or was one. When it comes to magic, I am an atheist; I don’t believe in it.

  • Good Wolf

    @Curious Bystander (591):

    You say creator with the implication that it’s an intelligent agency. I believe (though I don’t often say it because I’m no authority at all) that there could be a force beyond the universe itself, one which would be by definition supernatural (above nature) but I don’t think that it is, or needs to be intelligent, nor would I assume this.

  • Good Wolf

    Part of atheist philosophy is accepting ignorance to things like what caused the bigbang, but another part is the pursuit of new understanding.

    We don’t know everything, we don’t have to, we just have to keep progressing.

  • Curious Bystander

    @Jay Poe (590): I’m a BIG believer in science but I have to say, I don’t think it will ever tell us what happened prior to the big bang, assuming there was a big bang, I think anything that happened prior to the big bang will always be a source of speculation; which leaves the door open for the chance of a creator.

  • Curious Bystander

    @Good Wolf (593): I agree with your comments. I guess my understanding of what an atheist is, is what I need to clarify. I always thought that an atheist was someone who believed that there is no god. Not someone who thinks there may or may not be one.

  • Good Wolf

    @Curious Bystander (595):
    Well there are atheists who believe like that but they’re as stupid as believers. Simple fact is that you can’t prove a negative claim. The most common definition is the one I mentioned. It basically means agnostic (a + gnostic = ignorant, without knowledge) and atheist (a + theist = someone who doesn’t believe, or believes negatively). I can’t claim knowledge about a god but I believe there aren’t any. All we can do is look at the people around us who claim in the positive, ie. that there is a god and use examine and criticise those claims. Maybe someday we’ll find something interesting, I don’t believe we will, though personally I hope we do.

  • londonafter

    Thank God I’m an atheist.

  • Kuban8r

    At Good Wolf (584):
    Ahh… however you forget that not all Christian “religions” tell us to hate homosexuals. As I have pointed out, the teachings I received taught me to accept all people no matter what their color, sexual orientation, etc. I do agree that the vast majority of priests out there (Priests being Catholic by definition) will tell you that homosexuality is wrong (choice or not) and that is their interpretation of the bible and so they lead generations of young Christians / Catholics to believe the same thing.
    But, please don’t go back to the broad statements about “religion” again, as you will find many Pastors and Ministers teaching their young that it is wrong to hate anyone. Thats all… (hope you had a good weekend by the way)

  • Kuban8r

    At Good Wolf (586):

    you almost sound more like an agnostic than an athiest in that post.

  • Kuban8r

    Oops… didnt read 596 before i posted 599.

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (598):
    I paint broad strokes about the religion because when looking at the bible, the basis of the religion, it forbids homosexuality. I don’t think it’s ok to pick and choose the bits of the bible which are nice and moral, but that’s intellectually honest. It says that and that’s the end of the matter.

    @Kuban8r (599):
    Agnosticism isn’t somehow incompatible with atheism, in fact if you’re atheist you’re almost certain to be agnostic too. I find that people who call themselves agnostic don’t seem to know what it means to be atheist, as if atheism was the same as theism when it’s not. So yea you can call me atheist, agnostic or atheist-agnostic or even agnostic-atheist if you like to swing that way. It’s pretty much the same in the end.

  • Kuban8r

    At Good Wolf (601) gotcha. I was one of the people that didn’t quite get the difference, although I thought I did.

    Regarding your other comments: Although the bible is the main source of history for any Christain religon, pastors themselves will tell you that it is very difficult for any of us to 100% understand the message in the book. Although it does state that homosexuality is a sin, sin itself is not a black and white object (its debateable that sin in fact does not send you to Hell making it irrelevant if its “wrong” or “right”). If you decide to take every word of the book as its written then that is your stance and I can respect it – so no debate needed.

    My view is that the message of faith is the most important thing to take from the bible, making the forgivness, love your brother, acceptance, believe in Jesus part more imporant than the “this is wrong, this is right” part. Again, you may choose to disagree with that saying how can you ignore some parts (which I’m not) and accept other parts – again that is a literal translation fo the Book which forms your beliefs and I get that.

    Just know that I am a believer in God and I follow his message, but would still be a good guy to have a beer with, making me a follower but not an enemy… and there are more like me out there.

    I think you and I should get into a conversation about Catholocism, as I think we may actually agree on many points. :)

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (602):
    Although the bible is the main source of history for any Christain religon, pastors themselves will tell you that it is very difficult for any of us to 100% understand the message in the book.

    Which is one major reason I don’t believe it. An omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient benevolent god wouldn’t make a book that, due to an unclear and convoluted message, would produce very evil behaviours in it’s readers. Infact, I cannot reason why such a being would even bother with a book in the first place.

    My view is that the message of faith is the most important thing to take from the bible, making the forgivness, love your brother, acceptance, believe in Jesus part more imporant than the “this is wrong, this is right” part.

    I do not think the belief in the bible is needed for this reason. Atheists are forced to think and reason reality, to come up with our own philosophies about life and it makes us, on average, better behaved, more well of, peaceful, people. Atheists have lower divorce rates and crime rates etc. (though this could be cultural since the countries with the highest concentration of atheists are those with the lowest crime rates and poverty rates, etc. – just look at Norway). But when you reason reality you see a useful function of good and cooperative behaviour, social morals values as well as valuing secularist liberty. I would also argue that the idea that it all comes down to believing in jesus or not makes morality unimportant. You could be the greatest person to have walked the earth and not make it to heaven because you didn’t believe a few edicts and you could be a Hitler type figure and make it in because you believe correctly. Such an arbitrary and unnecessary criterion is itself unjust and immoral. Combine these two facts and you see why I think that even if it were true, it really shouldn’t matter.

    its debateable that sin in fact does not send you to Hell making it irrelevant if its “wrong” or “right”.

    Well it’s debatable if hell exists at all. There are christians who don’t believe such a place exists, one of whom was my father. He was biased though as he lost a son in a car crash and couldn’t deal with the notion of a hell bound son – it’s lucky he doesn’t since being bisexual should earn me a place there.

    Just know that I am a believer in God and I follow his message, but would still be a good guy to have a beer with, making me a follower but not an enemy… and there are more like me out there.

    I know, I’m friends with a few of your type. You don’t let doctrine interfere with humanitarianism or justice. Most humans are endowed with a sense of justness thanks to evolution, and it works well as a social rule of thumb.

    I think you and I should get into a conversation about Catholocism, as I think we may actually agree on many points.

    lol, maybe. I think we can agree on the child rape thing.

  • Kuban8r

    For sure on your last point. I strongly believe that the man-made idea of “religion” is one of, if not the top reason people turn their back on God. Religion in the hands of the wrong people poisons Christanity far worse than a non-believer or an Athiest.
    Catholics could save themslves alot of trouble (and the world) if they chose to follow Christ’s message and not muddle it all up with their wierd spin on it.

    Regarding Hell, I am one of those who doesn’t believe in a fiery hell full of demons and dungeons and all that… My views on Hell would take far too long to type out here, but you do bring up a good point that many Christians are not actually afraid of a burning lava pit. I do however believe that there is a devil, and his influence on this world (and in the past) is just as powerful as Gods.

    Who knows really. I wonder what would have happened to our world though if there was no religion and no belief in God. Can you imagine the worlds population problems if none of the wars or crimes done in the name of a higher power never happened? The Lord works in mysterious ways? :P

  • Good Wolf

    @Kuban8r (604):
    For sure on your last point. I strongly believe that the man-made idea of “religion” is one of, if not the top reason people turn their back on God.

    If not religion, then what else? When people come to this crossroads, they often determine that all faiths are of equal merit- all being without evidence, regardless of whether they are personal faiths or shaped by a religion and church. People will ask themselves “Why do I believe what I believe?” as I did and probably realise that they never had a reason to believe in the start. It most likely was circumstance that determined their religion, ie. where they were born and to whom. Christopher Hitchens says “I believe that all religions, all faiths, are different glimpses at the same untruth.”

    Catholics could save themslves alot of trouble (and the world) if they chose to follow Christ’s message and not muddle it all up with their wierd spin on it.

    Catholics canonised the bible. The built the bible, edited it, re-edited it and determined which books got in and which didn’t. Catholicism begat Christianity and partly constitutes Christianity. Be careful how you criticise the Catholics; the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

    I do however believe that there is a devil, and his influence on this world (and in the past) is just as powerful as Gods.

    I would wager the same about Zeus and Pluto.

    I wonder what would have happened to our world though if there was no religion and no belief in God. Can you imagine the worlds population problems if none of the wars or crimes done in the name of a higher power never happened? The Lord works in mysterious ways?

    Well for one, population is always limited by something, we’ve not reached the limiter, but eventually the environment and scarce resources will bring the death rate in excess of birth rate. It’s in evolution’s interest to control net populations. Also there wouldn’t be any dark ages, nor holy wars or probably and divisive factor in human society – we would’ve long ago realised that we are not what the universe is all about. Frankly I think considering how many religions are obsessed with end times that these prophecies my just become self fulfilling so I think religion is going to have to take a mortal wound for the sake of humanitarianism.

    The lord must also work in mysterious ways which mysteriously conform to nature. It’s a very non-interventionist approach to be sure. :)

  • Rguy

    Kuban8: I agree totally. I don’t believe that the God of any book or religion is 100 percent true. I believe that religious are often just large cults. I believe in the scientific method, but I also believe that it is very possible that there is a spirit world or afterlife and an energy of some sort behind creation. I believe that it is logical to believe that there might be a spiritual reality of some sort and I have experienced it directly via an NDE. I don’t think the real ‘God’ if you want to even use that term even cares if you’re religious or not, it’s all about how you treat other people. OFten religion leads you further away from connecting with others and with God. I also have a degree in religion, even though I’m gay and at one point I was considering becoming a pastoral counselor. the only thing that’s stopping me is that I’d have to find a denomination that’s more spiritual and less religious.

  • Good Wolf

    @Rguy (606):
    Having had an NDE, I can see why people would be convinced by it, that is seemed profoundly real. I was let down to discover that people of all faiths have NDEs that feature figures of all faiths; god, jesus, allah, yhwh, etc. My Doctor explained to me that the experiences were a combination of the brain shutting down lobe by lobe and hallucination. For this reason people often see what they would expect.

  • Kuban8r

    NDE – Near Death Experience? I can’t imagine what that would be like and I would assume it would be enough to form a belief system around on its own, I’m sure it is that much of a powerful experience. I once slipped and slid a few feet into the bush when I was hiking a mountain and didn’t think much of it until I got up and brushed myself off. I took a look through the trees and realized if I had gone a few more inches I would have toppled right off the edge of a huge cliff.

    Not a NDE in the sense that I was actually dying or having parts of my brain shutting down, but enough to jolt me into a very nervous feeling for a few days.

    Rguy- I agree with your views on religion. I also think its awesome that even though you may have (more likely have) taken some mental abuse from so called “christians” regarding your being gay you still want to reach out and help others. If you look around, Im sure you can find a non-denominational church depending on the size of town you live in. Where I live, we have a gigantic church that is non-denominational and the pastor is awesome. Each Sunday he talks about different life lessons and uses the bible as reference, he is also very liberal with his language and will occasionally makes jokes about himself or God.
    Depending on where you are you may be able to find a United Church as well. That is my wife’s church and she describes it as “Christian Light”

  • Anemone

    Falwell’s not on this list? I’m shocked.

  • March 3, 2010

    Dear Flamehorse,

    Good Work! I only wish that more people would read and understand your article. Too many people are being lied to and taken on emotional, quasi-religious, God-fearing rides.
    I am especially concerned about those individuals that are still living/active and spewing their tales of woe and doom to a lot of unsuspecting followers. Our election of Barrack Obama as our 44th United States President, has given some of these characters new ammunition for renewed religious biasness, racism and political manipulation. It amazes me how these ‘preachers’ are quick to point their fingers at some who might not fit into their narrow view of life. They often see themselves as infallible. They never see the error in their ways.
    The trouble is, there are more names that deserve to be on your list of ‘10 People Who Give Christianity a Bad Name.’ Without going into a full description of each individual, the following are names that I would add to your list:
    • Benny Hinn
    • Peter Popoff
    • Kenneth Copeland
    • Creflo Dollar
    • Jim Bakker
    • Morris Cerullo
    • Jimmy Swaggart
    • Oral Roberts
    • James David Manning

    The listed individuals have their unique personalities and methods of operation. What they have in common is greed, extreme biasness towards other groups, inflated egos, and questionable theological knowledge, dischargers of fabrications & deceit, and hypocrisy. Many share some or all of these traits. This is not a complete list, by any means.
    The Christian Church has been very important and far reaching institution around the world throughout its history. However, that does not mean that everything that has done or said, was in a ‘Christ-Like’ manner. Jim Jones led hundreds of his flock to a terrible, unwarranted death in Guyana, which had nothing to do with salvation or sacrifice. The Crusades caused the death of thousands and changed history. (for better or worse) It lasted for over 200 years, but the goal of obtaining the ‘Holy Lands’ from the Muslims, was never met.
    When any leader, religious or otherwise, is able to convince huge numbers of people to sacrifice money, time, their lives, their children’s lives and the lives of others for a ‘cause,’ it is important that we try as much as we can to present a complete profile of these leaders to give them a chance to think more objectively.

    Thank you again for your contribution.
    Sgt. Bill

    • richardson

      the goal of the Crusades was to REgain territory which was originally Christian, and it was only after a few hundred years of trying to get along with the Muslims, during which time the Muslims became increasingly intolerant of their conquered Christian population, that the Crusades started.

  • waterplant2000

    religion is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on humanity

  • CawCrow

    Dear waterplant2000,

    If religion is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on humanity, then humanity is the biggest mistake ever happened in the universe.

    Fear GOD and you’ll have nothing else to fear, on the other hand, ignore GOD and you’ll have nothing else to care.

    Ignoring GOD or denying HIM doesn’t make GOD diminish or vanish.


    • conversely believing in god doesn't make it any more real.

  • Fenriz218

    Let me start off by saying: "First!"

    Ol' Freddy Phelps is my personal favorite. Just look at that face! An expression, true as gold and smiling as benevolent as an Irish village idiot. Who would ever have guessed that he's teaching the bibles with his belt singing the chorus?

    Ah yes, good Fred Phelps. How old is he now anyway? Goodness-gracous-me, a biblical 81 years – do I hear an ugly black bird screeching out his name? And what a fitting farewell it will be, for – unless they bury him in the dead of night at an undisclosed location – I see way, waaay more than 70 people at his funeral! I can see it in front my very eyes: queers dancing with soldiers and trolls from far and wide, there'll be the devil's music (I recomend Black Sabbath and some Rolling Stones in case I can't make it) and there'll be beer … I hope somebody brings plenty of beer.

    Hope it will be an open coffin funeral – I would so much like to watch the crows pick out his eyes and fly away with them …

  • MrDystopian

    Fred Phelps actually pretested outside of the high school I went to. Somebody had written an essay about Ellen DeGeneres that won an award or something, and his group flew all the way from Kansas to this small town called Dracut in Mass to protest it. Needless to say, I was among a group of students there to protest the protest. But still, it shows how messed up they are to fly all the way out to a small town just to protest something as small as an essay

  • Forrest

    OK, so God put the smackdown on Haiti for being in league with the devil according to Pat Robinson, yet he still hasn't explained what Tennessee did to deserve Gods' wrath with all the rain. They must have done something. Care to respond, Rev. Pat?

  • Forrest

    Oops, Robertson. Sorry

  • I'm a Christian and for me this says it all:

    "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." (Gandhi)

    I try to live so that I would not be included as "unlike Christ". (At least so far as any fallible human person can.)

  • Mike245

    How come Hitler wasn't on this list?

  • While I agree with this list, I would recommend trying to make it sound a little less biased. Just report the facts instead of interjecting your own comments. I think it would sound more educated that way.

    • bobzaguy

      geez louise, what part of
      "people-who-give-christianity-a-bad-name" don't you understand?
      Would you rather it said "some people's ideas" or "give some religious groups" ??

  • At least almost none of these are recognized as "Christian" by most Christians – that is, they do not hold to the creeds and basic beliefs of orthodox Christianity (not Eastern Orthodox, but that which has been agreed to be central to Christian belief by the Christian Church throughout the last 2000 years).
    The only ones that have doctrine mostly right are Robertson and maybe Cauflin. That doesn't mean they are good, but that they are the only ones I'll agree give "Christianity" itself a bad name – if somebody claims to be Jesus Christ, he's just a kook who doesn't fall within "Christianity" from most Christians' definition

    • bobzaguy

      Father Charles Edward Coughlin (pronounced /?k??l?n/ COG-lin;
      he was Irish, so they pronounce the hard 'g' not as a soft 'f'.

  • Ha!! How can Jim Jones be on both the Christian and the Atheist Top 10 bad guy list? Who made this crap up?

  • Please dont judge all christians by this list. Christians are human, we are not God and while many of us are striving for that, we all fail miserably.
    Jesus however is infallible and real. Dont disown Him based on what his lousy followers have done.

  • richardson

    Coughlin was not SJ.

    • bobzaguy

      Right, he was Canadian from Irish parents and ordained in Toronto.

  • bender

    vlad the impaler

  • snoogens

    This is a great list. Well written and presented. I really enjoyed it.

    I also think it managed to take advantage of the fact that people in the comments section are always ready to throw poo at each other in the name of religion.

    • FlameHorse

      Doesn't take much to do so, unfortunately.

  • jenjen

    This is a tremendous list, but it needs to be qualified; the title should be "People Who RECENTLY Give Christianity a Bad Name". For copious forerunners, read a history book.

  • Piper

    Where is David berg? The family of God? Whores for Jesus? Full pictured pamphlets describing how to properly molest your children? Ew. He should be number one.

  • Carlos

    I couldn’t agree more with #1

    How can people follow a man that clearly distorts the teachings of Christ into messages full of

    hate and intolerance? There must be something in the water…

  • blue4

    I wonder why this list doesn't mention pedophile catholic preists or catholic inquisitions (that's right, it happened more than once)..

  • thedreadbaron

    I am surprised that Jack T. Chick wasn't included

  • chris

    this was extremely anti-homosexual…
    you give christianity a bad name DUMBASS

  • What, no Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph (Atlanta Olympic Park bomber)?

    I think anyone that kills in the name of God is infinitely worse than a clown like Robertson or a con man like Moon.

  • adam

    While some of Robertson's comments are very offensive (the ones he made about Haiti are really disgusting) his comments about Sharon were NOT ANTISEMITIC in that this was in the context of Sharon's government telling Jews to leave their homes in Gush Katif (and if they didn't want to levae forcing them out) and not compensating them properly. It was very harsh but his reason for saying this was because of Sharon's behavior towards his own people in some lands of Israel and being more concerned about Palistinians then his own people and this also was against what he ran as.

  • I HATE Westboro Church and everything they represent. They are one effed up congregation who will be very surprised on judgment day when they are all standing before God and then thrown into hell…we'll see whose the last one laughing then!

  • Chris

    And of course, people blame the religion because of these psychopaths. People blame God and religion when evil people do things in the name Christianity. They use religion as a scapegoat for human nature. It really is plain to see.

  • paula

    most of these men are megomaniac cult leaders, not christians,

  • Monkey

    Wait.. Hitler didn’t give Christianity a bad name? LMAO

  • shadow_man

    To those of you using the Bible as a weapon against homosexuality, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.

    • Invisible_Jester25

      Just as a note, dude, I think the censoring filter is messing with your links…

    • Link

      you shouldn’t need scholars to read something to make sure it’s correct. read it for yourself. it is a sin, just as a lot of things are. it isn’t elevated to the WORST SIN EVER but it is still a sin. the stjohns site you listed goes way too far using only 2 translations to prove its point. what people do forget is that Jesus, when on Earth, loved everyone and was personal to everyone. i have nothing against homosexuals and ain’t going to yell at them for their “crimes against MY God!” so many people forget we are all wrong a lot of the time.

  • Eleanor Maw

    Pope Benedict XVI is probably the best Pope we have ever had and is the first one that does not give Christianity a bad name, maybe he is a turning point for others to follow.

    • I am with you – His Holiness is the best Pope we have had since Pius XII.

  • boiler insurance

    10 People Who Give Christianity a Bad Name was enormously illuminating cheers, I guess your audience would maybe desire much more items similar to this. There is no smoke without a fire and in that respect there are no remarks without articles.

  • Soshann

    Jerry Falwell should be on this list.

  • Granty

    no Charles Manson?

  • There are much worse Christians that could be on.This discriminates because people like hitler,George bush.ivan the terrible,ect but they just put people who did bad things because of christianity.

  • Great post , I’m going to spend more time reading about this subject

  • Ali

    Is it really necessary for you to say homosexuality is a sin? I’m a Christian and a lesbian so I take offense to that. Great list, however the spiritual “wrongness” of homosexuality isn’t set in stone; it is accepted by many prominent Christian denominations. Your personal beliefs (or your misguided interpretation of Christianity) are projected too strongly in this otherwise solid list.

    • Link

      ehhh, just because it’s accepted by “many prominent Christian denominations” doesn’t make it right. maybe read through 1 timothy 1:9-11 and romans 1:26. be interested to hear your take on it

  • Invisible_Jester25

    I am not Christian, but I feel a deep, deep sense of shame upon seeing what these sort of people have done to Jesus’ word. Jesus was a man who promoted tolerance. He never wanted this. He was a prophet. These people are not Christians. They are False Prophets. If you believe in the Devil then surely these people were sent to do the Devil’s work. If you believe in God and Heaven, these people are as far from both as possible. If you believe Jesus died for humanity’s sins, then obviously he has not covered the sin of hatred, and that is the most unfortunate sin of all.

  • Ummmno.

    Actually, Hale also called Christians “snakes under the bed” in an article I read about him, so I’m pretty sure he isn’t Christian, though he believes in god.


  • ken

    What !! No Mr Camping here ?? the one who said his calculation is wrong and world apocalypse will be delayed AGAIN until October 2011.
    I don’t know which is dumber, The guy on the list or the follower of the guy on the list !! They are just purely deluded by the idea of greatness without being able to see what is the real meaning of greatness !!
    I noticed a lot of these guys are damn riched and lived a very comfortable life. if they are given a political power, influence and Army. sigh ! guys, we are looking at a 2nd Hitler and even a 3rd world war here.

  • Matthew

    If these people were true christians they would know that hating other people b/c of them being jewish, homosexual or for any other reason goes against the truth of what the one true god jehovah has written in the book of life. His word clearly states that we as a whole meaning (anybody who has ever lived on this earth) sins and therefore is responsible for the death of jesus and his crucifixion b/c jesus did not just take the sin of one people or one person on his back he took the sin of the world and bore it. We are all responsible for the stripes that were put on the back of jesus that is what is so wonderful and magnificent about the mercy and forgiveness of the lord that even though we killed his son he forgives us and has mercy on us and the fact that no matter what you have done or what sin you have committed that the lord is a loving and forgiving god and he will accept you with open arms if you ask for forgiveness and try to do his will which is to live a holy and righteous life. What a wonderful father we have!!!!!!! What other madeup god or leader since the start of the world is that gloriuos and forgiving that though we sin and defile him and are responsible for the death of his son he still loves and forgives us.

    • Link

      kudos meng. one thing though, please use periods. run-on sentence!!! haha

  • Tony

    I guess Fred Phelps and the WBC never read Proverbs 17:5 “Those who mock the poor insult their Maker; those who rejoice at the misfortune of others will be punished.”

  • LowPro

    the funny thing is that i didn’t even read this list, i clicked on it and scrolled straight down to the bottom thinking “the westboro baptist church is without doubt number one” and BAM, there it was. No-one can top those absolute and utter psychos.

  • konowiltibebk


  • Ara

    Anders Behring Breivik should be added as number 1 now

  • evgekholXRGmq


  • P

    You forgot that nutjob named Hagee.

  • Andy

    And where is Hitler? As a Roman Chatolic, I was sure he would be no. 1, espescially since Josef Stalin is no. 1 at the “atheism” list.

    And Dawkins’ show was called “The Root of All Evil?” with a question mark. Dawkins himself was against the title.

  • Spunks

    I used to lived in Topeka. I went to school with some of the Phelps grandchildren. They were nice, so I couldn’t believe they were related to Fred Phelps. Sometimes I’d see Fred and children as young as 3 protesting on the street. I couldn’t believe he made little children do that. I’d hear them at school saying how they hated it when he made them do that. How sad

  • sileshi

    It’s not so amazing! b/c it’s already written in the Bible.Math.24:1-
    oh,Lord save us from such!

  • konovalowilia


  • Ngoble

    #1’s horrendous congregation considered protesting a military funeral in my home town (Tell City, IN–not a city but an incredible, less corporate simulation). I can thank my fellow townspeople for doing the right thing and organizing a large enough crowd of angry bereaved to convince those intolerant, un-American f***s not to bother showing up.

    The odd thing is, I’m a bit of a pacifist and I’m quite overjoyed at their deflective gesture (and entertained by the thought of extreme cultists getting their asses beat).

  • Link

    there is a very disturbing documentary on the Westboro Baptist Church done by the BBC on YouTube. I can’t judge Phelps heart and his standing with God, but I can see the fruits (actions) he produces. Phelps and HIS worshipers (FlameHorse nailed it) are so far from human its sad

  • Wagosteta


  • Domingo

    Benny Hinn

  • phil

    You left out the Vatican for deliberately covering up the rape and torture of children :)

  • Cecel7fn


  • Mr.Cool

    What about the Spanish Inquisition?

  • it

    Vlad Teps? Ivan the Terrible? Oliver Cromwell? Bloody Mary? Henry VIII? Godfrey of Bouillon? Hernan Cortes? Francisco Pizarro? Robert Mugabe? Maximilien Robespierre? Tomas de Torquemada? Francisco Franco? Augusto Pinochet?
    Jean-Bédel Bokassa? Rasputin? Ante Paveli? ?Catherine de’ Medici? Francisco Solano? Pedro López? Albert Fish? Adolf Hitler??

    Obviously little research was done in making this list.

  • Sarah

    Harold Camping should at least get an honorable mention, c’mon. *Reads the publishing date of this list.* Oh, he wasn’t relevant yet then.

  • Adam’s apple

    Christians hey… Editing should be easy for u imaginitve breed

  • TT

    America is such a fucked up place. Seriously.

  • somi

    I am terribly brorn again, a christian and im just appalled to see christians on this site backing down on their beliefs because a bunch of morons dont accept it, HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT,if you dont like it , hang yourself.,Jesus,, christianity is the best thing that ever happened to me , no apologies. If you want tp remain an atheist be my guest. No one forced you to read the site or believe, its your luck, it aint by force. So just shut the hell up and focus on the content of the blogs, no body really cares what you believe.

    • Ally

      I know. some people on this site are saying its not a sin and calling themselves Christians. I think they are not. they just say they are to create confusion. any true Christian that actually reads the bible knows that in 1st Corinthians 6 condemns homosexuality. it actually says that they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. along with other types of sinners. please don’t hate, I’m just speaking the truth. the good news is that there is a chance for EVERYONE who is willing to accept Christ in their lives. :) peace and love

  • Honaerota


  • Jarrett

    Wait on the Atheism list, it has Jim Jones as well? WTF?

  • Ken S

    Matt Hale Is an atheIst and the World Church of the Creator Is an atheIst neo nazI group, so they don’t belIeve God Is whIte. Look It up.

  • jayson berdonar


  • The Funny thing about Sun Myung Moon being anti-semitic, is that Jesus was a Jew.

  • CA

    While I agree with the list, I’m concerned about all the grammatical and spelling errors. It does not look good to make a list like this, focusing on followers as being uneducated, when the author(s) may look uneducated as well. Please, in the future, proof your work before posting. Thank you.

  • Robyn

    As I was reading this, my thoughts were, “Will Fred Phelps be #1?” He definitely deserves number one. Search Wikipedia about him. Truly horrible man.

  • Sj

    yeh, christianity is stupid. you can’t say “these aren’t true christians” because they are true christians…simple minded, self centred ignorant cavemen…don’t worry, all religion is the same

    • Ally

      boy are you in for a surprise

    • John

      Fail. You obviously know nothing of true Christians. They are the ones who would read what you just said, and still take you in and feed you if you were out on the street. Stop slandering good people. It only guarantees to all that you are worse than the ones you slander.

  • gxslnbhf


  • angel

    where is rev peter popoff

  • Denise

    I can’t stand Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Their holier then tho but OK for me attitude makes me sick.

  • peter8172

    So, my question is this. What happens when people like this Fred Phelps Sr. and the others listed as being against homosexuality and are homophobic, what and how do Doctors give them a prostate exam or a Colonoscopy ?????? I would love to be a fly on the wall as you hear the doctor “snap” on the latex glove, lubricate his finger with KY Jelly and insert his finger into the arse of these homophobics. Or seeing them in the throes of a Demerol High as the instrument used to perform a Colonoscopy is performed on them !!!……..WOW…..THESE GUYS ARE SICK. They would be perfect members for the Spanish Inquisition of the Middle Ages.

  • peter8172

    Oh and by the way………..Why isn’t ANN COULTER on this list ????

  • Oliver

    I’d like to see some lists like “Top 10 Christians who make the world a better place”. I wouldn’t be against seeing a list for the other major religions as well.

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  • Rick

    I can tell by the Reagan slam in the Pat Robertson story that this list was certainly written by a liberal. I don’t care for Pat but to say that “He predicted Doomsday in 1982. Ronald Reagan came close, I guess.” was pretty lame.
    One more for your list, don’t forget about Jimmy Swaggert! lol

  • disc


  • Truffle

    What about the Catholic priests who molested children? They at least deserve a dishonorable mention, yes?

  • peter8172

    @ Truffle : If you can find this movie (its hard to find, believe me) entitled “The Boys Of St. Vincent” (1993) watch it as it concerns what you have posted (Catholic Priests and Young Boys). Let me give you a brief description of the movie……..Outstanding and Heartbreaking story of sexual abuse by the Catholic Clergy that was inspired by actual events. Divided into two segments, the drama begins in 1975 with a 10 year old boy named Kevin who is living at the St. Vincent Orphanage in an Eastern Canadian Town. The orphanage is run by charismatic and terrifying Brother Lavin who it turns out has a special fondness for “his boy” Kevin. Nor is Brother Lavin alone – a fact eventually revealed by a police investigation. Although the matter is hushed up by both the church and the government. Until 15 years later. In 1990, the case is reopened and Lavin, having married and fathered two sons, is returned to face charges. Now the young men must open wounds that have never truly healed and confront their tormentors in a court of law, amidst a blaze of publicity. Actor Henry Czerny gives a truly inspiring performance as the self-loathing monster. The emotional agony is excruciating to watch and be forewarned that the depiction of the sexual abuse in unflinching. Its a Canadian made movie and the duration of the film is 3 hours and 6 minutes. Its as powerful as it gets and I will honestly say that when I saw it, I was left numb with disbelief !! I am betting that if you go on to YOU TUBE and type it in, you may get the whole movie, or at least parts of it. Just wanted to let you know.

  • Ally

    great list !! really enjoyed reading it. the bible warns us about these wolves in sheep’s clothing. this is why we should read the bible and follow only Christ. not men.

  • Anna

    cant believe bush isn’t on here!

  • tido

    lol very funny

  • p

    To Flamehorse, How about the German 19th century composer Richard Wagner ??

  • Ronk

    #2 on your list seems out of place. Are you seriously suggesting Coughlin was the 2nd worst Christian of all time? or of the 20th century?

    Sure Coughlin SAID a lot of horrible things about Jews, but all of the others DID horrible things including in most cases murder. And millions of other people in western countries (including many whom we admire today) said similar things about Jews in the 1930s. Not that I’m defending Coughlin in any way, he was utterly reprehensible, but top ten material, no way.

    If Coughlin is there only because you needed at least one Catholic for politically correct balance against the other 9 who are all protestants, then you could surely have found a worse Catholic than him.

  • John

    I think the list is out of order. James Jones should’ve been #1 with ease, because as obnoxious as 1 and 2 are, they didn’t have people gunned down and drug 909 people to their deaths.

  • Zux

    The list really amazed me ……Where is the name of Adolph Hitler who killled six million Jews in the name of Christianity and thus giving it a bad name??

  • Christian vera

    Have you been a new christian which struggles with nervousness as well as fear here is a account which gives a standpoint we need to pick up. Concern might make us do silly issues. Within theory, every time a …christian

  • Gobsmacker

    I find this list simultaneously sickening and terribly tragic. These people weigh themselves down with genuine, deep hatred aimed at people they have never even met. I suppose they somehow find solace in living in a paradigm of condemnation of all those who find meaning in life in any other way than they do, thereby justifying their meaningless lives.

    What makes this so sad is that these people die the same death as any living being. They waste their fleeting existence pursuing a lie; they waste their life on human constructs designed to make life slightly more bearable.

    At the end of their days, they can look back only on hatred and violence, and look forward to nothing. The tragedy is that they pursue nihilarian ideals in such a manner as to rob others of their precious existence. All of their smite doesn’t change the fact that they act in the name of an immaginary cause. It’s sickening.

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  • M. Donohue





    • Daimon

      Idk where you received your education, but Catholic is equal to Christian. Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. And yes, each of these men were in fact Christian.

  • oxy skin care

    Amazing issues here. I’m very happy to see your article. Thanks so much and I’m looking forward to touch you. Will you kindly drop me a e-mail?

  • Chris

    In all fairness, Christ WAS a Jew, killed by His own, and it WAS an atrocious act. That being said, the Holocaust was still an awful thing.

  • Daimon

    No Hitler? Charles Manson?

  • Girl

    I’m confused about Christianity – which is my religion. Now wait – I’m 12. I don’t no much about my religion or the the background stories in it. I went on some sites today and they show quotes from the bible, which includes violence, rape etc. And that God doesn’t mind about it and stuff like that – which makes Christianity look bad. Christianity is the biggest religion in the world.

    I do NOT want any non-constructive feedback as it is just as offensive as a racist. I personally HATE people that mock others based on their prejudice views. If you can’t think of one it’s fine don’t answer, better than getting a bad biased reply. Please and thanks.

  • charlesdrp


  • elisanyhzna


  • Mun

    What terrorists! I’m glad I left Christianity–the most violent religion on Earth. The Bible features rape, incest, and stoning repeatedly. Not to mention that it condones slavery and says you should kill gays and non-virgin women. Islam a bad religion? Pfft. I read the Quran and it has none of that stuff. I left Christianity for Islam (Thank God).

  • Mun

    And I find it funny that when a Muslim does something that’s not allowed in the Quran, nobody says: “they’re just giving Islam a bad name and they’re not true Muslims anyways” but rather everybody calls them “terrorists”. That’s to show the racist and hypocrite attitudes you guys have. Not to mention ignorant of what the faith (Quran) actually teaches. I’m proud to have left Christianity (an evil, fake, political cult).

  • Prophet. Felix A

    23 Separating events that will happen in the world.
    Visit this site to understand all the events.

  • Roy

    I think Ronald Weinland is an honorable mention. He has continuously claimed his wife and him are the two witnesses in the book of revelation since 2008. Read up on him, it’s hilarious. Oh and his next prediction is that Jesus is returning on may,26. Oh wait that’s three days from now. I’m shaking.

  • telilombhec


  • Robert

    Just to clarify Jim Jones wasn’t a Christian. Jim Jones was an atheist. He said so many times in private writings. His followers were Christians and he preached a “Christian” message, but he didn’t believe it.

  • a christian

    According to the bible, a Christian is a person who has accepted the resurrected Jesus Christ as lord and Savior, and has welcomed him into their lives.

    Have any of these 10 men done such?

    (they just seem like crack-headed fools to me)

  • Justin

    charles manson wasn’t on this list.. why he’s christian and i think he’s worse then half these people.

  • petet2112

    @ Justin. Yes, Manson is evil and is a narcisstic sociopath. However, he did none of the Tate-Labianca murders, in fact he wasn’t even there for the murders. But he did ply Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel and Leslie Van Houten along with Charles “Tex” Watson with high powered psychedelic drugs and they were the ones who committed the murders. So in reality, Charles Manson was charged with conspiracy to commit murder which is usually a worse crime then committing the murder itself. Let me recommend the movie “Helter Skelter” for you. That the closest to the story as you will get.

  • Zachary

    There should be a list of Mormons who give Mormons a bad name.

  • Joe

    This list is waaaayyyyyyy too short. I can’t stand religion anymore because of
    the way hateful religious people treat others. And what is just as bad is the
    good religious people don’t call them out for it. As for Christianity, someone said Christianity ended at the crucifixion. I CAN believe that.

  • C Cupcake

    Great list! Mr. Phelps makes me especially angry, as people assume that most Christians agree with his outrageous hatred.

    Next, how about a list of ten people who give Christianity a good name?
    1) Mother Teresa (duh)
    2) MLK Jr.: taught peace and unity even in the face of incredible oppression
    3) Amy Carmichael: missionary and author who worked with children in India for 55 years and saved many from lives of slavery and forced prostitution,
    4) Isaac Watts: author of over 650 hymns, who changed church music to include statements of doctrine and personal devotion rather than just quoting from psalms and creeds,
    5) Rick Warren: author of The Purpose-Driven Life and pastor of Saddleback Church in California, who takes no salary from his church and lives off of 10% of his book royalties, giving the rest to charities and ministries,
    6) Gary Haugen: together with other Christian lawyers, founded International Justice Mission, which combats human trafficking around the world through victim relief, perpetrator accountability, victim aftercare, and structural transformation,
    7) Corrie ten Boom: along with her family, hid Jews and other refugees from the Nazis in the Netherlands, feeding them kosher food and observing the Jewish Sabbath with them. The family was arrested, and she went to the Ravensbruck concentration camp with her sister Betsie, who was eventually killed by one of the SS guards. Corrie survived the experience and went on to become a prominent speaker. After addressing a church one morning, she was approached by the very guard who had murdered Betsie, and chose to offer him forgiveness.
    8) Dan West: Ohio farmer who served as a relief worker in Spain after World War I, he became frustrated with the inability to provide more milk to the locals. He thus founded Heifer International, to provide a long-term sustainable solution to families and communities by giving them their own livestock rather than just a few meals.
    9) William Wilberforce: British member of Parliament who worked tirelessly for eighteen years toward the total abolition of the slave trade, facing ridicule and hostility from his peers throughout. After his success in outlawing the importation of slaves, he set about to restrict and eventually outlaw the ownership of slaves.
    10) Chuck Colson: After his arrest in connection with the Watergate scandal, he converted to Christianity. While serving his prison term, he noticed the injustices in the system and the recidivism of many inmates. When he was released, he founded Prison Fellowship, which today is the nation’s largest outreach to prisoners, ex-prisoners, and their families.

    • Sally J.

      Great list! I was also thinking about William Wilberforce – what an inspiring story.

      And how about Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the German pastor and theologian, who, denounced Hitler from the very start of his leadership. Instead of staying in America during the tumult of WWII, he returned to Germany as part of the Confessing Church, and the anti-Nazi resistance. He was executed days before the end of the war for his participation in an assassination attempt on Hitler. Brave, honorable, Christian believer, an example for the ages.

  • adasfa

    Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell…”Gays caused 9/11″…!

  • You forgot Jeremiah Wright, Rev. Jesse Jackson, and Rev. Al Sharpton. How convenient for a raging liberal such as yourself.

  • Sally J.

    Huh? Most of these people are clearly not Christians (e.g., when you found a religious cult or sect with non biblical beliefs, it kinda means you are no longer a Christian!) And the couple who are, are very misled concerning their behaviors toward other people. They do not represent me or any of my Christian family members and friends. Being a Christian is not just about what you believe, but about who you are and what you do and how you live your life.

  • Anonymia

    And what a bout Eddie Long? If you don’t know, Google it.

  • CanonyTroully


  • Anonymia

    What the heck happened to my half-page-long comment? Ispent, like, an hour writing that…

  • Bean

    Good, and important, blog. I am a Christian and I am always mystified by persons who call themselves Christians and don’t seem to know the basic tenets of the faith. They are so busy looking for sin in others they are blind to their own limitations. You quoted liberally from the Sermon on the Mount, which is the essence of Christianity. How can someone read those words and know how Christ lived his life and then profane everything he stood for. These strange Christians do more harm to the church than any atheist ever could. If you believe the devil exists, then you know he is the father of lies and confusion, among other things. He’s doing a great job. But I don’t believe he will have the last word.

  • Reblogged this on Dublin City University Secular Society and commented:
    Opinion of Listerverse. Not representative of the views of the Secular Society.

  • Ellen

    Interesting that 99% of the people on this list are American…. But hardly surprising.

  • Thanks from Israel. I just had lunch in Nazareth but did not share the list. Peace!!!

  • Hi

    I was just thinking that most Christians that know their stuff are not bothered by this article why? Because Jesus has already told us there will be false prophets and false Christ

    So what point are you trying to making? If we preached that there no false prophets trying to gain a foothold then you would have a point.

    So what point are you trying to make?

  • jeans

    i really think the one with the 909 cuisides is the worse then some lunatic with a ot of kids who hates amerika. i find it pretty weird that that one is at the top i mean he thinks that dead soldiers are good, thats a bad thing but i mean he does not have 909 suicides on his name. thats one of the largest mass suicides ever! how is that not no.1?

  • Name


  • xxxxx

    Who are all these people??? I don’t know any of them!!! I must be too ignorant.

  • BIG E


  • First of all, thanks for acknowledging Christianity and setting things straight. It is too bad there are so many deceived people who carry false religion around, doing harm. But it goes a lot further than the obvious ones you listed above.

    The Internet gives us evidence that we have too many narcissists developing in the world. Each person is becoming an ‘individual’ know-it-all that has fallen for the freedom of speech card. The Constitution does not give us freedom because it isn’t biblical. Man cannot give us what we already have. But we don’t have freedom. We have free will. There is a difference and it has a much greater responsibility. In other words, just because we can do or say something, that doesn’t mean we should. Once upon a time when “keeping your mouth shut” or “do nothing at all” applied many times over.

    But these days, you can’t look at someone wrong without initiating an online comment from them. “Can you believe someone looked at me wrong today?”

    Those same types of people are also the ones who argue up and down about religion. Even so-called Christians do it. More and more people are forgetting the example Jesus Christ set. He didn’t walk around looking for people to argue with or to prove his own righteousness. He acted as though God was looking down at all times. It is something most of us never think about. We choose to stay caught up in the turmoil of society, allowing it to distract us away from what is important. And much of the time, even if we suddenly remember, it doesn’t take long for it to feel as if good behavior isn’t compatible with today’s world.

    But we have to remember something important. The world is destined to get worse. This is beyond our control. We cannot try to change the world into some good place. That would be like saying that the world will never end. A real slap in the face to God and His Truth. THE WORLD WILL END!!

    Therefore, we must SET AN EXAMPLE. One like Jesus did. He walked the walk to show us how we should FOLLOW HIM. He showed us that we will indeed suffer, be persecuted, be humiliated, and possibly be killed. But we were told to never sell out from God for the sake of our own life. I really do not think it is possible to walk the walk today without being mocked. Try it and see. There are many street preachers getting the treatment as I write this. They are real saints compared to me. But I never forget what Jesus did and how He did it.

    There is much more to God than “believing”. And there should be zero talk or boasting about the supernatural and divine occurrences that come in the form of stories. Many people make a lot of claims and it deters people from God because it makes Christianity look like something for nutty people. There are some exceptions. Some stories tell of mysterious but inspirational occurrences that could very well have something to do with God. But there is never enough evidence to proof so. I think God likes it that way. But it’s enough to bring people to Him. No matter, we have to walk the walk ourselves.

    So to all you Christians out there. Turn off your TV and stop worshiping evangelists. Don’t send them your money. They are stealing it. And your ignorance is selling many people short. Do not fuel the evil that continues to blind people and lead them astray. There is only ONE way to God and that is through YOUR actions from day to day. You can’t buy your way to Heaven.

    What have you sacrificed? What have you done? Who have you helped? Did all those things bring others closer to God. Who benefits? You or God?

  • Pyonpyon

    The comments are much more entertaining than the list itself. :)

  • Atheist

    How is it a perversion when the Bible clearly states to stone homosexuals and their blood is on their own hands? Seems like he’s just doing what the Bible says. The Bible has lots of things like that in it. God himself orders the destruction of cities for homosexual activities in the Bible.