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This list includes some interesting and sometimes intriguing experiments that have attempted to prove or disprove one of the most important questions ever faced by humanity: Is there life after death? I had no agenda either way as I was putting this list together. I hope if anyone that has information to add credibility (including some of your own experiences) or any evidence to debunk some of these experiments you will share it in your comments.
EVP (electronic voice phenomena) is a mysterious event in which human-sounding voices from an unknown source are heard on recording tape, in radio station noise and other electronic media. Most often, EVPs have been captured on audiotape. The mysterious voices are not heard at the time of recording; it is only when the tape is played back that the voices are heard. Some skeptics say interpreting random sounds into voices in their own language would sound like random noise to a foreign speaker. You can hear some samples of EVP here.
Interesting Fact: The 2005 film White Noise starring Michael Keaton focuses exclusively on the phenomenon of EVP as the main character attempts to contact his recently deceased wife.
This is not the official name of this experiment but I thought it had a nice ring to it. In 1907 Dr. Duncan MacDougall of Haverhill, MA placed six terminal patients on a specially designed bed built on a scale and weighed them as they took their last breath. Based on results from the experiment, the patients lost approximately 3/4 ounces which equals 21.3 grams. MacDougall also measured fifteen dogs in similar circumstances and reported the results as negative with no perceived change in weight. He took these results as confirmation that the human soul has weight and that dogs do not have souls. MacDougall’s experiments were published in the New York Times and some medical journals.
Interesting Fact: MacDougall’s complaints in his journal about not being able to find dogs dying of the natural causes led to the suspicion that he was poisoning dogs to conduct his experiments. Also: These experiments inspired a film called “21 Grams” starring Sean Penn.
The God Helmet refers to a controversial experiment in neurotheology (study of correlations of neural phenomena) by Michael Persinger. When a modified snowmobile helmet is placed on the subjects head, magnetic fields start stimulating the brain. Persinger claims that near death experiences such as bright lights, the presence of God and seeing dead relatives etc. are reproduced. Richard Dawkins, who is known for his atheistic views and criticism of religion volunteered to test Persinger’s device. Afterward, he admitted on BBC that he was very disappointed that he did not experience communion with the universe or some other spiritual sensation. It should also be noted the helmet was also tested by a person that previously experienced a near death experience and the results failed to duplicate the same sensation.
Interesting Fact: Persinger claims that at least 80 per cent of his participants experience a presence beside them in the room, which they variously say feels like God or someone they knew who had died. You can learn more about the God Helmet here.
The Phillip Experiment was conducted in the early 1970’s by The Toronto Society of Psychical Research. The purpose of the experiment was to see if a fictitious historical character could manifest itself through the group’s efforts of concentration. They named the ghost Phillip and gave the ghost a personality and a complete background, even drawing a portrait to make him seem more real. The 8 members in the group also memorized the fictional biography and studied the period in which Phillip was supposed to have lived. The séances proved nothing for many months until 1973 when Phillip began to communicate. He first came through as a solid rap on the table. In the months that followed, the group discovered that when they asked questions and using 1 knock as “yes” and 2 as “no”, they could actually have an intelligent conversation with their ghost.
Interesting Fact: The experiment came to a strange end when one member of the group broke ranks and stated aloud in a reply to Phillip that “we only made you up, you know.” All communications stopped. Once denied that Phillip was real, he ceased to exist.
Ghost Hunters is a reality television series that debuted in 2004. A team of investigators travel to locations that are reported to be haunted. To locate ghosts the team has experimented with Geiger counters, EMF (electromagnetic field) scanners, infrared and night vision cameras, handheld digital video cameras, digital audio recorders, and laptop computers. The ghost hunters claim to have several good recordings of strange mists, odd lights, moving objects, and shadowy figures that manifest before the camera and disappear quickly.
Interesting Fact: Critics and skeptics of the program point to a lack of scientific methodology and critical examination in their investigations as well as questionable production aspects including editing.
Houdini’s training in magic allowed him to expose many mediums as frauds that had successfully fooled many scientists and academics. Fearing that spiritualists would exploit his legacy by pretending to contact him after his death, Houdini left his wife a secret code. Ten words were chosen at random from a letter written by Conan Doyle that he would use to contact her from the afterlife. After Houdini’s death on October 31, 1926 a friend of Doyle, Rev. Arthur Ford claimed to have contacted both Houdini and his deceased mother at a séance through his spirit guide. Ford stated that the message received was in the pre-arranged code worked out by Houdini and his wife before Houdini’s death. However most believe Ford conspired with Doyle and also talked Houdini’s wife (who was ill and self-medicating with alcohol) into conspiring to assist him in creating the impression he had contacted Houdini’s spirit.
Interesting Fact: Houdini’s wife Bess held yearly séances on Halloween for ten years after Houdini’s death, but Houdini never appeared. The photo above is Harry Houdini with his wife and mother
Gary Schwartz, a professor of psychology at the University of Arizona wrote a book in 2002 called “The Afterlife Experiments”. In the experiments he used mediums and sitters (someone who had had very close relationships with people now dead) to investigate whether or not there is life after death. The mediums consistently came up with specific facts and names about the sitters departed friends and relatives that the skeptics have been unable to explain away as fraud, cold reading, or lucky guesses. For the first sitter the results showed that the mediums had ranged from being 77 percent to 95 percent accurate. The average hit rate was 83 percent. The hit rate for the second sitter was similar to that of the first sitter. To rule out lucky guesses he set up a control group of sixty-eight students from the University of Arizona. The hit rate of the control group was just 36 percent.
Interesting Fact: When the 83 percent hit rate of the mediums was compared with the 36 percent of the control group, Schwartz claims the statistical probability of the control group difference occurring by chance is one in ten million.
Sir William Crookes was an English chemist and physicist and attended the Royal College of Chemistry in London. One of Crooks accomplishments was the “Crookes Tube” which would lead to the discovery of cathode rays, x-rays and the electron. Crookes had developed an interest in spiritualism possibly by the untimely death of his younger brother in 1867 at age 21. In 1870 Crookes decided that science had a duty to experiment with the phenomena associated with Spiritualism. The conditions he imposed on mediums were as follows: “It must be at my own house, and my own selection of friends and spectators, under my own conditions, and I may do whatever I like as regards apparatus”. Among the phenomena he said he witnessed were movement of bodies at a distance, changes in the weights of bodies, levitation, appearance of luminous objects, appearance of phantom figures and the appearance of writing without human circumstances which would point to the agency of an outside intelligence. His report on this research in 1874, concluded that these phenomena could not be explained and that further research would be useful.
Interesting Fact: Most scientists were convinced that Spiritualism was fraudulent, and Crookes’ final report so outraged the scientific establishment that there was talk of depriving him of his Fellowship of the Royal Society.
Australian Psychologist Peter Ramster made a documentary in 1983 called “The Reincarnation Experiments”. During the experiments he found very convincing evidence of past lives. One of the individuals featured in the film remembered a life during the French Revolution. When under trance she spoke in French without any trace of an accent, understood and answered questions put to her in French and knew the names of streets which had changed and were only discoverable on old maps.
Interesting Fact: General George S. Patton was a staunch believer in reincarnation and often claimed to have seen vivid, lifelike visions of his ancestors and also believed he was a reincarnation of Carthaginian General Hannibal.
In 1993 four psychic researchers and observers embarked on a series of experiments in the Norfolk village of Scole. For five years, more than 500 experiments were carried out. During some of the experiments objects materialized, lights danced, and solid beings appeared. Luminous spheres also flew around the room in apparently intelligent manner. The image above was received on 35mm films still in the light proof containers with no cameras used. Messages were also transmitted onto audio-tape. The experiments were repeated in the United States, Ireland and Spain. In the United States scientists from NASA, the Institute of Noetic Sciences and the University of Stanford also took part. You can learn more about The Scole Experiment here.
Interesting Fact: James Webster, a professional magician with 40 years of experience investigating paranormal phenomena came to the following conclusion: “I was unable to discover any sign of fraud, and it seems to me that fraud couldn’t have been possible, both because of the type of phenomena observed and by the conditions in which they came about”.
Contributor: Blogball
January 31st, 2009 at 2:36 am
wow cool list!
January 31st, 2009 at 2:43 am
o.0
January 31st, 2009 at 2:45 am
damn this list is so mind bogeling awsome list! Keep them coming. Yo word!
January 31st, 2009 at 2:59 am
awesome! i love these lists
January 31st, 2009 at 3:21 am
its 2:20 AM and i am officially crapping my pants hahaha this was a wicked list but i always get really creeped reading stuff like this at night :O!
January 31st, 2009 at 3:21 am
Very nice list, thank you.
I would disagree with #9 though.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:47 am
There will always be life after death just because people believe there is. It is the same with religion. Peoples beliefs make it real for themselves.
For me, DEAD is DEAD. Religion is a myth.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:02 am
For #2, I’m sorry to say but she has a very clear english accent when she speaks french.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:18 am
The Afterlife Experiments seems a bit rubbish.
Basically, as an analogy, they got a group of salespeople and a group of random university students. They then asked both parties to sell things from a shop. Miraculously, the salespeople sold far more! How could this be!?
That’s basically what happened, to an extent. Psychics and Mediums have learned which are good “hit phrases” more likely to produce an emotional response from the interviewee, they also obviously know how to build rapport to sway decisions as well. This is a seriously flawed experiment, I wouldn’t have had it past 9.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:34 am
stevek:
Agreed. God may not exist, but if I said that loud enough, I’d probably get killed because I said that. That’s power enough. :p
January 31st, 2009 at 4:53 am
If anybody hasn’t watched Ghost Hunters and is a bit curious, I recommend it. The hosts of the show are skeptics themselves, and try to debunk everything.
I’m not sure your “interesting fact” is a fact at all, but competition from the show stating their views.
New season starts in March on SciFi.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:59 am
Very interesting list, Blogball!
January 31st, 2009 at 5:04 am
Jono:
With all the “Truths” which have now been proven to be myths, why do people believe the bible to be the ultimate truth. I see it as a collection of “Myths”, written sometimes centuries after the “Fact”. Storytellers make their living telling stories, if they weren’t interesting, just add a little more action. It could be the difference between eating and starving.
January 31st, 2009 at 5:17 am
Dr Brian Weiss tells interesting stories of his patients having past lives. Seems a reputable shrink and made interesting watching when he was interviewed by Dr Oz on Oprah.
January 31st, 2009 at 5:45 am
Poor Phillip.
January 31st, 2009 at 5:48 am
number one is cool… brrr..
January 31st, 2009 at 5:59 am
I have no use for psychics. If I were to call one of psychic hotline numbers, when I picked up the phone they should already be there waiting. I’ve seen cold readings on various talk shows and mostly the people give the psychic the information and don’t even realize it. Needless to say, I’m not impressed with #4. Although I think the writers of “The Honeymooners” were psychic for the way they rip-offed “The Flinstones” before it even went on the air.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:02 am
Oooo spooky list…I shouldn’t be reading this at midnight lol, its creeping me out…
January 31st, 2009 at 6:24 am
There is an after-life. I have my own proof.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:44 am
Nice list! No. 10 reminded me I had found an interesting research on EVP and that case in particular (an italian man claiming to hear his deceased daughter’s voice recorded on tape) had been debunked by the Italian organization called CICAP (Comitato Italiano per il Controllo delle Affermazioni sul Paranormale – Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims on the Paranormal) here’s the link for their website:http://www.cicap.org/new/index.php (there should be an english version, but unfortunately the articles are still in Italian only) These people are basically scientists who research paranormal phenomena. They challenge psychics, mediums and such to show them their abilities, but no one as of yet has ever passed their tests; they also regularly make fun of horoscopes, and showed how to make perfect crop circles. These guys are just plain awesome in my books.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:46 am
brilliant list. really enjoyed it.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:52 am
The list is quite full of nonsense.
For example, Number 4 the Afterlife Experiments was very much flawed, you can read more about it here: http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-01/medium.html
It’s important to note that these flawed experiments always get more publicity than the ones that are made correctly and do not show any ‘paranormal’ results. The same with this one:
“A fifth report describes a study that was designed to be a true double-blind experiment. The outcome, by any accepted statistical and methodological standard, **failed to support the hypothesis of the survival of consciousness**”
In other words: the second you make it scientific, the paranormal aspects go away. Hmmmm…. makes you wonder…
January 31st, 2009 at 6:53 am
I wonder if any one has tried to measure the weight of gasses for the volume of the lungs when inflated and seen if it is or isn’t in excess of 21 grams. It’s be a very easy solution to that problem without involving anything at all.
January 31st, 2009 at 7:36 am
As soon as ghosts stop acting like a**holes, I’ll believe in them. As of right now, all they seem able to do is make annoying noises in attics and knock stuff off dressers when no one is around.
The afterlife must make people bitter.
January 31st, 2009 at 7:45 am
nice list, but only entertainment for a skeptic like myself. (damn my early introduction to Micheal Shermer!)
when I was younger (before 25) I completely embraced the idea of reincarnation. Throughout my childhood, up to the age of 13, I had frequent deja-vu. once so strongly that I knew the way around a town in Oklahoma that I had never been to!(it was during a field trip in 5th grade to “No Man’s Land”) shortly after 13, I just stopped having the deja-vu.Now I believe that my brain simply was able to properly channel the visual images into a real-time format, instead of having a ‘glich’ that made me think I was in some locale or situation previously…
I find that my current concept of death is far more interesting & satisfying than any idea of an afterlife consisting of ghosts, orbs, unfinished business, or a heaven-like place.
1st Law of Thermodynamics:energy cannot be created or destroyed; rather, the amount of energy lost in a steady state process cannot be greater than the amount of energy gained.
hence my current concept of what happens upon death for ALL living things, human & otherwise…
our bodies decompose, and so does our energy.By decompose, I do not mean ‘destroyed’ I only mean “dissipated’ or transformed into another state.
the energy that supplied the internal combustion & electrical impulses of my nervous system will be released outside of my body, after the internal energy needed to begin decomposition of my physical body finishes setting that process in motion. then the ‘life’ energy will be distributed into the greater universe, to atomically compose leaves & grass, water & clouds, atoms of other living things…stars…dark matter…you name it, it is constantly in a state of reclamation & distribution.
as a teen, learning the 1st Law of Thermodynamics in high school just made perfect sense.
also, Bill Bryson’s “A Short History of Nearly Everything” and Phillip Pullman may have helped solidify this concept…
ringtailroxy
p.s. I’d rather be a functioning, contributing part of all matter than a ghost, random orb, or vengeful poltergeist. really. aren’t people annoying enough while alive?
positively post script. why are so many ‘paranormal’ encounters hostile? I live right next to an enormous Jewish cemetery. It’s gates are open 24/7…I often walk my dog down there. It’s beautiful, the grounds are immaculate, the mausoleums thought provoking, and I just like to read the headstones.
Neighborhood kids spook each other and talk of ghosts. I laugh and say “What is a Jewish ghost going to do? Charge me admission? Help me balance my checkbook? Teach me how to make good Baba Ganoush?”
yeeash…
*held in moderation for use of ‘1st’*
January 31st, 2009 at 7:58 am
Yeah…this list seems to be 99% bullshit unfortunately. Usually the people who perform “experiments” centered around the afterlife stand to make a lot more money if the experiments are successful then if they’re not.
January 31st, 2009 at 8:02 am
CFAustin:
The hosts of Ghosthunters are not skeptics, they have had they’re own real experiences. But they do the investigations in such a way to get convincing evidence for those who have not had an experience. Spiritualism and science can co-exist.
Great list.
January 31st, 2009 at 8:07 am
hey-whyfore my comment #25 says ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation.”? I didn’t use any curse words, kept the controversy to a minimum, and only was mildly condescending…
rtr
*it has been released. w/ an explanation.*
January 31st, 2009 at 8:37 am
stevek religion cannot be a myth. religion is real.Thousands of people belong to religious organizations. i think you mean god is a myth
January 31st, 2009 at 8:39 am
19. Mrs Polidori
I would very much like to see or hear your “proof”.
26. deepthinker
The fact that they are not skeptics is the failure. They already go into investigations with preconceived notions. Their convincing evidence is only convincing to credulous individuals who share their preconceived ideas. They fail to convince any skeptic of the authenticity of their claims simply because there is always, I stress that word, ALWAYS a more logical and simple explanation for their findings.
“Spiritualism” and science will NEVER co-exist. Ever. Perhaps to the ghost hunters who do not know the definition of science or how to correctly practice it, it will. But that is not co-existence; it’s presenting pseudoscience to attempt to quantify their false findings.
There has never been, nor likely ever will be, any evidence of an afterlife. Hearsay, faith, conjecture and anecdotal evidence is not evidence. These are the only things used to “prove” paranormal or supernatural activity. Therefore, the laws of science simply do not apply.
January 31st, 2009 at 8:51 am
okay, great omnipotent moderator…thanks for clarifying that. got worried there…didn’t know if I was blacklisted for some asinine reason.
just out of curiosity…why was “1st” moderated? I really am curious…(which is why i visist this site daily!)
waiting for Bucslim, Randall, & Rushfan to wake up…
rtr
*’1st’ is posted @ forums or on comment sections of websites by preteens w/ low self esteem to bolster their sagging egos. its been done to death and back. hence being banned on this site as well as most any site that allows public interaction.*
January 31st, 2009 at 9:04 am
Ah yes. People will always be uncomfortable with the notion that once you die you cease to exist. Live your life now people don’t wait for an afterlife to start enjoying yourself.
January 31st, 2009 at 9:04 am
Having worked in hospice i do believe that there is an afterlife. Why else would people see dead loved ones, the “light” etc.?
January 31st, 2009 at 9:06 am
People once said we would never land on he moon, and they were wrong, so how can you write off the fact that there might be an afterlife? There is no proof there ISNT one. To the people who are not so open minded, is it realy ruining your life that some people do believe in it? Maybe your just too afraid to admit there might be things that even scientists cannot disprove, as your are scared of the possibility of there being something unknown to us.
January 31st, 2009 at 9:13 am
very interesting list.
January 31st, 2009 at 9:22 am
Life’s a bitch and then you die..
January 31st, 2009 at 9:30 am
ringtailroxy:
I was up at the crack of dawn, as always, ringy. What can I do for you? Having trouble with fools and weirdos? Need me to rough somebody up? Or just looking for stimulating intellectual discussion?
Randall, btw, possesses no particular belief in an “afterlife.” I believe in living life NOW. Pace Jake Ryder, above.
However, my “belief” parallels that of the VERY wise Joseph Campbell–that we are vessels of light, of consciousness. And god/the universe is consciousness. And so when we die, consciousness returns to consciousness. Reincarnation? Perhaps. I’ve had odd echoes of the possibility of it, in my life, and the lives of friends. But I do not believe in the survival of the ego, the “self,” after death. I don’t believe in a heaven as a “place” where we hang out with all our dead relatives and get to meet Ben Franklin and Aristotle and whatnot. My reason for disbelieving in this, however, is because I feel the ego must be a transitory thing… which is, in fact, the very lesson that the Buddha and Jesus taught. It would not make sense, therefore, that it would survive after death.
Physics tells us that alternate universes are almost certainly real–but are they any more easy to accept than some kind of continuance of an energy or a general (but not individual) consciousness after death?
I have friends who believe strongly (because they can “feel” it) in the idea of “alternate existences” where things happened differently, where choices were made that led to different ends than occurred “here.” I’ve had such “feelings” myself.
An existence “beyond” all this might, therefore, also exist. Not where “I” carry on, as Randall… but where the “thing” in me that is an echo of the consciousness of god or the universe, rejoins that primary voice, and carries on.
January 31st, 2009 at 10:02 am
Am I supposed to be making something out in the picture on #1? Just looks like blocs to me.
January 31st, 2009 at 10:03 am
blobs*
January 31st, 2009 at 10:07 am
Hey, very nice list, and quite thoughtful insights from Randall (37). This list is right up my street as I currently work for a Shaman, have many years of buddhist and spiritualist experience, and am a philosopher by nature. I get most of my knowledge in these matters by channelling. Now I know that sounds strange; and a sure way to get ridiculed; but what I ‘hear’ comes from a source beyond what I already know – and beyond things I have read in books or seen on TV – and that is why it is pure insight.
I too was a skeptic until I undertook mediumship training, and at that point I understood that I could ‘hear’ voices that were not coming from me. I am not schizo – as some might jump to believe. So how does this work? Well, as Randall so delightfully enthused, all existence at the core is pure energy. We know this because when we split the atom, all that energy came flooding out. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but transmutes between one form to another, ad infinitum. This energy is also consciousness in its purest form. It is all around us, and we, as well as everything in existence, is made from it (appearing in various states of solidity depending on the resonation frequency). Hence God is all around us, and we are made from ‘the source’, and will return to the same energy pool (source) after physical death.
Now that is mostly common knowledge amoung the open minded. What is not talked about is the way the after-existence works. When we sleep, we sometimes dream; the active imagination (the creator of our simulacrum, or perspective on reality) – detatched from the glorified caluclator which is the brain, makes images all of its own. After death, this is all we have left; consciousness and free-form imagination. So, whatever awaits us upon death is whatever we imagine it to be. If we believe in hell, and expect to go there upon death, then we would create our own version of what we imagine it would be like. Simlarly, if we expect to see John Lennon or Elvis, then this is what we find. Because this form of existence (as opposed to ‘being’) is not limited by time or space, we can imagine ourselves anywhere we like, and communicate with any thing we like – although nearly all human beings are deaf to these messages.
For further research, see ‘What Dreams May Come’.
January 31st, 2009 at 10:21 am
I too believe in the here and now and not the here after. Live life to the fullest…however, my favorite show is Ghost Hunters. Love that show. I don’t care if its commericialized or not, its damn good! They go in hoping to debunk the activity and whatever is left should be real. Many of what they have caught on camera, evp or whatever cannot be rationally explaine. There will always be skeptics no matter what. Having said that, does anyone have any proof of God? If not, the don’t rip on my Ghost Hunters…thank you very much!
January 31st, 2009 at 10:23 am
also, if my post starts the religion debate…sorry in advance!
January 31st, 2009 at 10:33 am
awesome list.
January 31st, 2009 at 11:29 am
I dont like the way these experiments are presented like they contain some grain of truth. They all failed to prove anything, but now you’ve got all the gullible people reading this list turning away from rationality and embracing the afterlife idea. Its just silly, and it needs to be presented as silly.
This is pretty much like presenting the top 10 perpetum mobile experiments, and then not explaining what the faulty reasoning behind them was and why they violate the laws of physics.
January 31st, 2009 at 11:39 am
I just farted and it clearly sounded like Daffy Duck’s late grand father Dangle Duck. He said “Being dead beats being a dead beat”. The voice was very clear, and very mysteriously quack like, it just had to be the voice from the afterlife. Scientists cant explain this phenonema, so it proves the afterlife!
January 31st, 2009 at 11:43 am
“33. Carrie lynn
Having worked in hospice i do believe that there is an afterlife. Why else would people see dead loved ones, the “light” etc.?”
There is scientific evidence that explains this phenomenon. Essentially, and in very simple terms, it’s the brain shutting down. There is more detailed information on this in Michael Shermer’s “Why People Believe Weird Things” and Carl Sagan’s “The Demon Haunted World”.
“34. Char
People once said we would never land on he moon, and they were wrong, so how can you write off the fact that there might be an afterlife? There is no proof there ISNT one. To the people who are not so open minded, is it realy ruining your life that some people do believe in it? Maybe your just too afraid to admit there might be things that even scientists cannot disprove, as your are scared of the possibility of there being something unknown to us.”
People also said the Earth was flat and the Sun revolved around the Earth. Science has proven those beliefs wrong. Incidentally, it was science that put man on the moon. It’s quite the straw-man argument to try and back up the existence of a life after death using a completely unrelated human achievement. Proving there “isn’t” life after death is not the issue. It’s up to the person making the claim to prove that it is so. You can’t prove that I don’t have an invisible fire-breathing dragon in my garage, it’s impossible to prove a negative.
I’m completely open-minded to any claim you have to make, but you’d better be prepared to back it up with evidence if you want to convince me that it’s true. I’m afraid that “faith” and your “strong belief” isn’t enough to make it so. I’m not even talking about empirical evidence to make it absolute truth, but something other than anecdotal evidence that can usually be explained by simple means. Provide something that makes the claim testable by proper scientific means; something that can at least promote the claim from speculative observation, to actual theory. Consider Hume’s Maxim when trying to relate to these types of claims:
“That no testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavours to establish.”
With that in mind, is it more likely that the noises heard in a house are those of spirit who has nothing better to do than remain in a house making muffled, incoherent “bumps in the night” to try and contact the living, or that it’s the normal creaks and bumps of a settling house?
Closed minded describes the people who refute science as being fallible and unreliable in the past so therefore it must be wrong because it cannot “disprove” something that is not testable. Science is ever-improving on itself, that’s what it does, that’s why theories change and expand and improve. It doesn’t go in with the preconceived notion that there is life after death and then tries to find evidence to back up the claim; that’s what the ghost hunters do, along with New Age Guru’s who claim to be able to hear voices from the beyond speaking to them, and that is not science. However, they like to use what they claim to be scientific instruments and scientific-based buzz words like “pure energy” (whatever that is) or “resonation frequency” (“resonation” is scarcely even a word). This then devalues their claim from what they consider scientific, to nothing more than pseudoscience.
The claims made by people like lifeschool are certainly flowery and wonderful; however, he/she cannot provide evidence for any of them, which makes them no more credible than had he claimed to have an invisible fire-breathing dragon in his garage. For some reason, most people seem to be more hesitant about such a claim, but are willing to buy into the former. Remember that just because a great number of people believe something, it does not make it so. In fact, mass-belief in such claims can lead to what is known as a “feedback loop” (feel free to look that up). A feedback loop is not just an ancient phenomenon, it has happened in our own time on several occasions, and can lead to unjust behaviour and has caused such memorable events as the Witch Craze of the 15th and 16th century.
To get back to your question, it is not ruining my life that someone believes in an afterlife, but rather, it may be ruining their life to be not living the only existence they have to the fullest, because they believe an afterlife will be so much better.
Finally, science is never out to “disprove” something, it is designed to find the truth and shed light on what is not yet known. If the evidence (or lack thereof) shows that a hypothesis is false, then that is the conclusion. The scientific method is relied upon by you, me and everyone else, every minute of the day, every day of every year. It has made your life more convenient, likely saved your life and the lives of your loved ones -perhaps without ever knowing it- and continues to improve your way of life. It seems a bit unfair to sully it by suggesting that it may not be all it’s cracked up to be, simply because it isn’t designed to “disprove” supernatural claims.
I am not “scared of the possibility of there being something unknown to us.” On the contrary, I’m delighted to know that there are innumerable mysteries yet to discover, and welcome any and all wondrous things that can make life a more amazing journey that it already is. However, wasting time on supernatural nonsense and paranormal activity as anything more than simple entertainment, takes away from all the amazing “natural” and “normal” discoveries we have yet to make.
January 31st, 2009 at 11:47 am
I still wonder why all ghosts are from the Victorian era . . . has anyone seen a Neanderthal ghost . . .
January 31st, 2009 at 11:57 am
thanks blogball very interesting list for some reason #7 The Philip Experiment felt very strange
January 31st, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Why is it so hard to believe that science is a great discipline that explains how God does what He does?
January 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I hope that after I die, I will be reincarnated as a person a few thousand years in the future. If I cannot, I would like to use my “dead time” to learn all I can about the universe.
January 31st, 2009 at 12:26 pm
hogwash….theres no such thing as ghosts and otherworldly spirits…i mean seriously, have you ever hear of pre-victorian ghosts?(as per Cubones comment)ronald reagan hasnt begun bombing russia from some bunker in his afterlife, has he?no…..maurice gibb hasnt contacted brother barry about a beegees reunion yet, has he? no….people, its easy to be fooled by many of the phenomenae that happen in our world, but to assume that ethereal being inhabit our plane of existance is utter nonsense
January 31st, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Excellent list once again Blogball. Not that I believe any of it; my belief is unnecessary, what’s interesting to me is what these intelligent educated people believe.
I had a psychic reading once, years ago before I got married. The only thing I remember from the 45 minute session was her statement that Davey and I are soul mates and the prediction that we would have 4 kids. (I scoffed at her). The fact that these are the only correct things that she said during my reading is why I remember it; and precisely why belief in psychics and the supernatural continue to this day. Even her comment that my hubby and I are soul mates requires no psychic ability by the way – Our friends commented on the fact that we looked and behaved like an old married couple since high school.
My personal beliefs are much the same as Randall’s, although my shared consciousness wouldn’t be nearly as eloquent or well reasoned.
January 31st, 2009 at 12:58 pm
I thought #7 was the most interesting by far.
January 31st, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Anyone that has had a dog as a companion, knows that they have souls, if humans do. Interesting list.
January 31st, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Redcaboose~
*sigh* i fancifully believe that. but i logically believe that many animals, especially domestic ones, have a consciousness beyond what other animals have. all animals are as intelligent as they need to be to survive in their environment. dogs just happen to have learned how to effectively bond with, manipulate, and accept us to satisfy their survival needs. dogs ARE smarter than us…mine doesn’t pay rent, gets premium food, constant vet care, and all her emotional needs met! i don’t even have that!
mom424~
i had a psychic reading once… the guy was so creepy! he was handsome, but insisted on holding my hands…he knew my name (because i wrote it on the list for a free reading) and he knew my birthdate (a simple free records search online could provide such info)
he began to ask me if i enjoyed animals (which i do) but this was obvious because he was conducting readings at veterinarian’s house!
he then was pulling ideas out of his ass. some made hits, most didn’t. like he knew that there was an important man in my life. (duh…most females in their early 20’s have a father, boyfriend, or guy pal)
he told me i had a dog that i went everywhere with (duh… my dog was laying on the other side of the patio screen door, you could see the tips of his ears. also, i had a totebag with a picture of me hugging my dog on a mountain top on it!)
the only 2 things he said that remotely caught my attention was that he guessed my father’s name was Rick and that I was an avid snorkeler.
but… maybe the charm on my necklace, a tiny silver mask & snorkel gave that away? maybe not…
January 31st, 2009 at 1:55 pm
44. B-on : I just farted and it sounded like Harry Truman.
I think you’re on to something.
January 31st, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Nice list, but one of my favorite things is missing today!
There is no Crazy comment from Jajdude.
I hope no one minds, but Iwll try to fill his shoes in his own intersting dialect… here goes..
Proton packs to the max on the list, G. I’ve been seein things in the dark since I was a kid, yo.
Well, I tried.
No disrespect jajdude.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:02 pm
rtr;
They don’t have to be domesticated. There are many stories of Chimps, Dolphins/Porpoises, Elephants and the like mourning the death of close family members and offspring. Remember Flo from the Jane Goodall special? Many of the higher animals demonstrate an extremely high level of consciousness and self-awareness. Close family ties and a certain level of altruism benefits the species. Consciousness provides that capability. Amazing the things that develop in the quest to spread the genes.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:06 pm
“Why is it so hard to believe that science is a great discipline that explains how God does what He does?”
That’s what I believe, yet so few others do.
People are either the close-minded Christians who think we were created in 7 periods of 24 hours, or the hypocritical atheists, who wouldn’t dare ever acknowledge there’s a hint of supernatural phenomena in this world.
That’s seriously beside the point though.
This was a very interesting, and somewhat creepy list.
Good on ya, Blogball.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:36 pm
“59. Skiffo
People are either the close-minded Christians who think we were created in 7 periods of 24 hours, or the hypocritical atheists, who wouldn’t dare ever acknowledge there’s a hint of supernatural phenomena in this world.”
That’s an incredibly unfair generalization to both Christians and Atheists. I know several Christians who are not Creationists and countless Atheists -myself included- who are more than open to the idea of supernatural phenomena. I don’t acknowledge it as existing as I have yet to see any evidence to convince me of it. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
This is an excerpt from Carl Sagan’s “The Demon Haunted World”. I have referred to this book often because it is one of my favorites and is the inspiration for my earlier “Fire-breathing dragon” claim. I can pretty much guarantee you wouldn’t believe such a claim on my word alone, why should I be expected -as well as be called hypocritical- to believe an extraordinary claim with no evidence?
———————————————————–
“A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage”
Suppose (I’m following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you’d want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!
“Show me,” you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle–but no dragon.
“Where’s the dragon?” you ask.
“Oh, she’s right here,” I reply, waving vaguely. “I neglected to mention that she’s an invisible dragon.”
You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon’s footprints.
“Good idea,” I say, “but this dragon floats in the air.”
Then you’ll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.
“Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless.”
You’ll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.
“Good idea, but she’s an incorporeal dragon and the paint won’t stick.”
And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won’t work.
Now, what’s the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there’s no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I’m asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.
The only thing you’ve really learned from my insistence that there’s a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head. You’d wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me. The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind. But then, why am I taking it so seriously? Maybe I need help. At the least, maybe I’ve seriously underestimated human fallibility.
Imagine that, despite none of the tests being successful, you wish to be scrupulously open-minded. So you don’t outright reject the notion that there’s a fire-breathing dragon in my garage. You merely put it on hold. Present evidence is strongly against it, but if a new body of data emerge you’re prepared to examine it and see if it convinces you. Surely it’s unfair of me to be offended at not being believed; or to criticize you for being stodgy and unimaginative– merely because you rendered the Scottish verdict of “not proved.”
Imagine that things had gone otherwise. The dragon is invisible, all right, but footprints are being made in the flour as you watch. Your infrared detector reads off-scale. The spray paint reveals a jagged crest bobbing in the air before you. No matter how skeptical you might have been about the existence of dragons–to say nothing about invisible ones–you must now acknowledge that there’s something here, and that in a preliminary way it’s consistent with an invisible, fire-breathing dragon.
Now another scenario: Suppose it’s not just me. Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you’re pretty sure don’t know each other, all tell you that they have dragons in their garages–but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive. All of us admit we’re disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence. None of us is a lunatic. We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on. I’d rather it not be true, I tell you. But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren’t myths at all.
Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported. But they’re never made when a skeptic is looking. An alternative explanation presents itself. On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked. Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon’s fiery breath. But again, other possibilities exist. We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons. Such “evidence”–no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it–is far from compelling. Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.
——————————————————
In short Skiffo, I’m not being close-minded or hypocritical, I’m being insightful and cautious of taking extraordinary claims at face value.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Cool list. EVP’s have always creeped me out. Must read more about the Scole Experiment.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:47 pm
I apologize, skydiver, I should have been more specific.
I was was only referring to the extremists, because I get tired of and how often I read debates between people who will claim that fossils and evolution are fake vs. people who only come across as rude and hypocritical.
I read your posts, and found nothing close-minded or hypocritical in them.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Thanks for the comments Listversers!
As I mentioned in the intro I do not have strong feelings either way on this subject but I do keep an open mind. Many of these experiments were performed by respected doctors, professors and scientists so I think it’s a little close minded to pick and choose which scientists you want to go with because of your own personal feeling or beliefs. However having said that my gut tells me there is most likely logical non-super natural explanations that would explain most of these experiments. But to say lights out the parties over along with the debate and the fat lady is singing I think is a bit egotistical. The one that fascinated me the most as I was researching these experiments is the Scole Experiment (#1). The more I read about it the more I was intrigued.
Anyway thanks for posting the list Jamie. I knew there would be interesting intelligent and thoughtful comments from this list and as usual listversers came through. I really believe this site produces more intelligent comments than 99 % of the others out there which is why I learn so much here and try to contribute when ever I can.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I can’t really believe people believe this stuff.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:27 pm
47 and 51 raise a very good point. Why are most ghosts that we hear of from Medieval or Victorian ages? Evolution has taken us a long way, but perhaps an explanation could be that pre-evolved forms of the modern human had much more simpler and dissimilar minds than that of our own. As evolved humans we have much higher moral complexities than that of our instinctual ancestors, and perhaps our sixth sense ‘wavelengths’ (if anything like it exists) are fine tuned to more recent eras.
But obviously I’m not expert on the ‘reality’ of afterlife, and neither are any of you
. Jus’ sending that out there for all the preachers and deniers. The afterlife has been pondered by so many humans for so long, you gotta wonder if it’s ‘meant’ to be like that!
January 31st, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Webster may be a magician, but he is a seeker of paranormal, not a debunker.
Now if Penn Jillette were convinced there were no signs of fraud…
January 31st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Thanks Skiffo, I understand your frustration. It’s very easy to be dragged into ad hominem arguments regarding this topic and they are exhausting not only to participate in, but to read and listen to. I try to stay as neutral as possible in these debates and limit replies to instances when I read oversimplifications, over-generalizations, fallacies, quote-mining, misinterpretations and just plain bald-faced lies.
Blogball, as the presenter of this list, and being the skeptic that I am, I have to call you on this statement:
“Many of these experiments were performed by respected doctors, professors and scientists so I think it’s a little close minded to pick and choose which scientists you want to go with because of your own personal feeling or beliefs.”
Could you provide a list of the respected doctors, professors and scientists -other than the ones that conducted the ‘experiments’- that actually promote the hypotheses and their findings as accepted theory? The ones in particular are The Afterlife Experiments and The Reincarnation Experiments. Anyone can perform experiments and come up with findings and promote their theory, however it must pass through the scientific method of research, hypothesis, testing, analysis and confirmed by peer review and repeated testing.
I’m aware of Dr. Duncan MacDougall’s theory but this was a theory passed in 1907, the findings certainly cannot still be taken seriously. I’m certain that the same can be said for Sir William Crookes Experiments as well as the reaction by the scientific establishment at the time, but if you have documentation that says otherwise, I’d gladly review it.
I’m also familiar with neuroscientist Michael Persinger’s “God Helmet” as the University where this helmet presides is within driving distance of me and I’m thinking of trying it out if it’s possible! If nothing else, it gives some evidence to explain supernatural phenomena as merely neurological effect. I don’t think it falls into the category of an “Afterlife Experiment”.
The Toronto Society of Psychical Research and Ghost Hunters are hardly in the same field as respected doctors, professors and scientists.
I’m reviewing the website and info on “The Scole Experiment”. I’ll form my own decision on that.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
There is a very powerful hallucinogenic compound stored in the brain called dimethyltryptamine (DMT). We get a small dose of it when we sleep, and it’s been believed that we get a large dose of it when we die. That could account for near death experiences.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:39 pm
“65. sashley
47 and 51 raise a very good point. Why are most ghosts that we hear of from Medieval or Victorian ages?”
For the same reason there are no claims of alien abduction in the 18th or 19th century, at the very least none that make the claim of futuristic, metallic, supersonic ships with flashing lights, tractor beams and probing. It would seem that most claims of UFO sightings, alien abduction and the like exploded in the mid 20th century when sci-fi was becoming a cultural phenomenon.
Interesting that… no?
January 31st, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I think a lot of people are getting mad, saying “this list is crap!” because they assume that you’re implying that these experiments mean they’re true….
its just a list of experiments people, its not called “facts discovered about the afterlife” or anything “fact” at all, except that these were actual experiments done.
I’m pretty sure I recall most of these have been debunked, but it doesn’t make them any less interesting.
Thanks, by the way, for the interesting list. I was beginning to lose faith in this site…not trying to be rude or anything but cartoons and favorite music lists are relatively boooooring.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:55 pm
i think #10 is related to another list; the “10 bizarre sound illusions”
for #9 has anyone else been able to replicate the experiment?
i’d like to have one of #8!
#’s 1 -> 7 truly are bizarre…
January 31st, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Sorry kids, there’s no afterlife. Hold onto that belief though tigers!
January 31st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
For Ghosts to exist there would have to be a soul (or something that exists beyond the physical body). I don’t think that exists, but for a minute lets say it does. If the soul did exist then how would it remember who or even what it was. All the experiences of your life are memories stored in your brain that, when you die, rots. The soul would not remember who it was and would not therefore be able to answer any questions on its life. So no ghosts don’t exist and yes there is ALWAYS a rational explanation.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:46 pm
I guess there’s no hurt in believing with god. If there isn’t an afterlife, you have nothing to lose. If there is, there is everything to gain, right? That’s the age-old question.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:55 pm
“74. ReVeNg3
I guess there’s no hurt in believing with god. If there isn’t an afterlife, you have nothing to lose. If there is, there is everything to gain, right? That’s the age-old question.”
This is known as Pascal’s Wager; might as well be safe rather than sorry. Give it a Google, you may find some interesting paradox’s regarding this reasoning.
For instance, don’t you think an all-knowing god is going to see through your deception? Do you honestly think you can outsmart an omnipotent creator?
January 31st, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Skydiver, If you ever get to wear the God Helmet you have to promise and get a picture of the event and put on the forums.
January 31st, 2009 at 5:40 pm
I understand that it is very hard for some people to admit that they have no idea about how the universe actually works, and really, have no desire to learn or understand it. Science, as I have explained already, is the study of material objects – but the life-fore is NOT material, and therefore science will never be able to detect it. We can – by going into meditation and merging with it, and thats how we know. This practice far superceeds science in these matters, and has existed far longer.
On the subect of ‘ghosts’, I personally beleive that the life essence of the deceased simply has a lower and lower vibration of resonance over time. In other words, after a while, out eyes cannot detect them physically – although the human being can still detect them as Chills and smells. Knowledge of the real world of wandering souls has been set back a hundred years because of rigged and faked cash-in TV shows such as Most Haunted.
Ahh, thats better. I do feel good to get that off my chest. Great list Blogball, well thought out and researched.
January 31st, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Science has identified the Source energy – or rather, they have found a hole where it should be. They call it Dark Matter; they know it’s there, but as you say Lifeschool, it is not in this existence (I suppose you could say it doesn’t exist!). Science has also found the energy of the Source available everywhere, they call it Zero-point-energy; although people in high places want to keep this information off the streets or risk loosing billions. Luckily, I think the days of money and power are coming to a close.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Of course there is an afterlife, you are living in it right now.
January 31st, 2009 at 7:39 pm
hmm very interesting but most of the scientists are wrong
January 31st, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Whatever it is, I still believe afterlife does exists. Anyway, Ghost Hunters show is really cool!
January 31st, 2009 at 8:19 pm
When they say that the film used in the scope experiment was used without a camera and in light proof containers, is that supposed to mean a force besides light put the images on the film?….. Listverse, has let me down before in some really un-interesting lists, Im sorry, but it has, i appreciate the effort put into the lists though, I must say, this is the most interesting and well-though out lists i have read, i am a mystery lover, i adore learning about things that don’t have a solution, i am also a ghost-enthusiast. I will be looking forward to another one, Life and death are very controversial and interesting topics, and i crave to learn about them.
-Nick
January 31st, 2009 at 10:41 pm
I can only reply to lifeschool and alisca’s claims respectfully as delusional, misguided and woefully conspiratorial.
lifeschool, it’s presumptuous of you to imply that “I have no idea about how the universe actually works, and really, have no desire to learn or understand it”, you could not be more mistaken. In fact, I’m willing to learn and understand all there is to know, providing you can offer evidence. However, using classic pseudo-scientific terms like “life essence” and “lower vibration of resonance” are utter nonsense and offer no credibility to your claims, in fact, it defames them even further. Furthermore, the antiquity of a lie does not make it so; acupuncture has also been around a lot longer than modern science, and yet there’s no evidence to prove it works.
Truth be told, I probably know more about the Universe than you ever will because I rely on evidence and science to guide my learning. Science is something you rely on every day of your life, whether you care to admit that or not. Science does indeed study the material world, because that’s all there is to study. I’m sorry, but I cannot believe in any “Invisible Fire-breathing Dragon” until you can provide evidence to substantiate your claim; it’s how things work in this material world in which we live.
Tig, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you meant the scientists backing the experiments in this list are wrong, and not scientists in general.
I would like to share a quote from a friend who summarizes all this rather nicely:
“It seems obvious how we should respond to supernatural claims but the believers just won’t get it. They just WANT to believe there is something more mysterious to life when the real tragedy is that life itself is as fascinating, or more, as the supernatural claims. The difference is, we can actually accomplish things by understanding the truth of reality whereas the supernatural seems to offer us nothing until after we die.”
February 1st, 2009 at 1:31 am
Jaz-
it’s 2:30 where i am, and im super creeped out too.
but very very cool list
February 1st, 2009 at 2:42 am
Excellent list blogball thank you, people always fear not existing and therefore will be forever searching for something that means for them that death is not final.
February 1st, 2009 at 10:11 am
83: Skydiver, I have proof that it does exist just as you have proof that it deosn’t. Funny that. The good news is that whether you believe one thing or another, we will all find out when we die.
February 1st, 2009 at 10:37 am
Interesting. I personally dont believe in heaven or hell but I do believe in some sort of afterlife. Mediums are frauds. People who channel “voices” may or may not hear things but whatever they are “hearing” I am sure that it is a figment of their own imagination. If you want to paranormal activity to manifest itself in your presence bad enough, then it will probably do that.
It doesn’t necesarily mean you have made any kind of connection with another dimension. As far as heaven or hell. Doesn’t it seem just a little unfair that we are to be bestowed with eternal paradise or eternal damnation based on what we do with our short time on earth. How long do most people live 75-80 years? How long is eternity? A very long time apparently. It just doesn’t seem right.
February 1st, 2009 at 10:44 am
Skydiver. Tread carefully; there are phenomena that can’t be proven by modern science. But it doesn’t mean that they are not real. “Do you love your parents?…. If you really do then prove it…” (quote from the movie Contact).
We can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that gravity exists but we can see its effects, isn’t that as good as “real proof”. We can’t prove you love your family but you can see the effects of your love. You can’t technically prove God exists but his existence is evident in every facet of the universe.
February 1st, 2009 at 11:30 am
Interesting list. I stand on the sidelines of this though, I’ll just find out when I die.
February 1st, 2009 at 12:02 pm
“86. alisca
83: Skydiver, I have proof that it does exist just as you have proof that it deosn’t. Funny that. The good news is that whether you believe one thing or another, we will all find out when we die.”
If you have proof of an afterlife, please present it to the scientific community as it would be the single most ground-breaking discovery in the history of mankind. What exactly are you waiting for? But remember, saying you have proof, and presenting it for testing and peer review are two different things. Until your proof passes this method, it is opinion, not proof.
Please refer back to the Carl Sagan segment I provided in post #60 for an example of the flaw in your logic. If you’re referring to a near-death experience, I can provide scientific study of that experience that is far more plausible than “faith” or simply “what you think”, not to mention experimentation that has mimicked the effects of NDE (see item #8 on this list “The God Helmet”).
“88. Rolo Tomasi
Skydiver. Tread carefully.”
I am treading carefully. I’m being incredulous and not leaping into a belief system that has no evidence to back it up.
The contradictions in your reasoning is startling. For instance, you stated in your previous post that you:
“dont believe in heaven or hell but I do believe in some sort of afterlife. Mediums are frauds. People who channel “voices” may or may not hear things but whatever they are “hearing” I am sure that it is a figment of their own imagination. If you want to paranormal activity to manifest itself in your presence bad enough, then it will probably do that.”
then follow that with:
“there are phenomena that can’t be proven by modern science. But it doesn’t mean that they are not real. “Do you love your parents?…. If you really do then prove it…” (quote from the movie Contact).
We can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that gravity exists but we can see its effects, isn’t that as good as “real proof”. We can’t prove you love your family but you can see the effects of your love. You can’t technically prove God exists but his existence is evident in every facet of the universe.”
Well, which is it going to be? Why is it ok for you to dismiss mediums, paranormal activity and hell, because you’ve yet to see any proof, but it’s unreasonable for me to dismiss an afterlife or god for the very same reason?
February 1st, 2009 at 3:06 pm
hahaha…the God helmet!!! Christians and their money are so easily parted….
February 1st, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Skydiver:
Theres really no point in speaking to people who are easily manipulated or people who jump to conclusions without proper understanding.
“You can’t technically prove God exists but his existence is evident in every facet of the universe.”
Look we can’t prove god exist and we can’t prove god does not exists. But with all the sufferings in this world, I tend to believe the later. But of course if I can believe otherwise, I would.
Science can be proven wrong with advances in technology etc. But concerning the “Now”, I think science has a solid base and foundation than any other field in explaining what is and what is not.
February 1st, 2009 at 8:31 pm
91. bob
The God Helmet is actually a valid scientific experiment which may prove to be a groundbreaking achievement. It actually mimicks -as convincingly as if it were real- parapsychological events such as out of body experiences and seeing, or feeling the presence of ghosts by stimulating specific neurons in the brain. The experience is so convincingly real to some, that subjects are told in advance what to expect and warned to continually remind themselves that what they are experiencing is in their head, and not in the room. The experiment may eventually lead to a plausible explanation for many “unexplained” claims.
92. Tommy
Thank you and I appreciate what you’re saying, but there is a point. While my responses are directed at the author, they aren’t necessarily geared specifically towards them. My responses are more to clear up specious claims -made publicly- that may be read by someone who innocently takes them at face value. I believe it to be a public service to correct fallacies and misrepresentations that are presented as fact and/or common knowledge, in any forum. I encourage anyone to do the same for any incorrect points I may present. I am always willing to learn.
With that said, keep in mind that suffering in the world is no more proof that god doesn’t exist, than good is proof that he does.
Science is continually improving and updating. It is self-correcting and makes no bones about it working any other way. Advances in technology are a result of science, not the other way around, science is not affected by it. Furthermore, science is the ONLY foundation for explaining what is and what is not; there is no other field.
February 1st, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Skydiver….you’re incredibly long-winded.
February 1st, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Skydiver
Look, I believe everything you said with your earlier posts. I’am just saying your arguements against theirs is like “beating on a dead horse” (they have no substance).
“With that said, keep in mind that suffering in the world is no more proof that god doesn’t exist, than good is proof that he does.” I know, but sometimes you just wish a little
“Advances in technology are a result of science, not the other way around, science is not affected by it”.
Now this is false. Alot of examples, Hubble telescope and the newly built CERN atom smasher (didnt have the technology at the time, but the maths and science were there). To me they work in tandem, both effecting each other to further our understanding of the universe.
To say “ONLY” foundation is totally disrespecting other fields. But I would have to say I almost totally agree
February 1st, 2009 at 9:54 pm
94. HellcatHoney
Yes, I know. It’s a curse.
February 1st, 2009 at 10:02 pm
This is all very wierd. I just don`t understand. But interesting list.
February 1st, 2009 at 10:17 pm
skydiver. I believe mediums are frauds because they have been proven to be. Which is not the same as: mediums have not proven to be fake so they must be real.
As far as not believing in heaven or hell. I guess its a very relative concept and relatively speaking I just dont think that these are places that you frequent immediately after this existence.
Maybe they do exist and we will arrive there eventually. Shoot! Maybe reincarnation is real after all and we are at some sort of apex on the verge of eternal life.
You are right about the contradiction. I guess I beleive in an afterlife because I hate to think that this is the absolute end. Ceasing to exist is very frightening if you really think about it.
These are paradoxes that will one day be revealed to all of us. Hopefully not anytime soon.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:02 am
When my youngest daughter was only around 2 1/2 yrs old, she claimed that her mother had killed her, and her eyes looked like “this” . Then she put her fingers on the corners of her eyes and pulled up so she looked Chinese. We came to find out that it was a common practice in China to kill female infants, so they could try again to have a boy since they were prohibited by law to have more than one child. She also claimed to have been a slave in Egypt who was killed by an arrow. She is now 10, and has no memory of any of this.
My son refused to sleep in the top bunk, because he believed he had died in a fire because the smoke killed him, he was only around 4 at the time.
I’m not sure what I believe, but when little kids come up with that kind of stuff, it’s freaky!
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:28 am
Blogball: Excellent list!
I was reading up on the reincarnation experiments and found that there are two psychiatrists from the University of Virginia who have published papers regarding past life memories in children between the ages of 3 and 7. Apparently, some children were able to recall very specific details about the life of some unknow person: manner of death, people, places, etc. He also compared brith marks and defects to wounds and scars on the deceased (from autopsy pictures) and found some interesting corralations. Granted that mst of these cases were in the Orient where there is a strong belief in reincarnation but it still makes you think… Could it be possible?
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:35 am
99. 667TheNeighborofTheBeast
Freaky that you posted that just as I was writing about the study published by UofV.
In fact, one of the things you mentioned is in keeping with what they found: usually, children will begin talking about these “memories” when they are about 3 and forget all about them by the time they turn 7.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:36 am
That’s a great list. How about this?
http://www.undeadreport.com/category/reanimation/
It’s really bizarre!
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:02 am
Death – I feel the pain thinking about everyone I have known that has lost somebody. They all hurt so much inside but the most hurt I have ever seen felt is by the parent(s) of a child that had died. There is no words to describe that kind of pain. It is never an easy thing to see never mind to bear that pain as a parent. I pray that all those who have felt pain such as this have comfort and peace come to them through their faith in God and Jesus Christ.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
A word about human belief and science.
Never, never, never speak of the two as aspects of the same or similar thing.
Belief in the super-natural is comlpletely within the human mind. Belief is 100% subjective and that makes it philosophical by nature. There are no tests, experiments, no technology to prove or disprove anything.
Science is based on objective thought, theory, experimentation, documentation, and most importantly – unrestrained peer review. It exists independently of any individual or group of individuals.
Philosophy and science are completely different disciplines and never the twain shall meet.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:37 pm
The woman in the reincarnation video DOES have an accent. Maybe the fact that she’s mumbling is a ruse to hide it. Fake.
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:50 am
What it is about The List Universe that attracts so many atheists? I’m curious. Maybe it’s a new found faith in counting things?
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:02 am
TEX,
I agree with you (apart from calling it philosophical),
But at the same time… what is now called supernatural may be part of science in the future (just like how what some ancient people called ‘magic’ is now chemistry, etc.).
So don’t discount it as yet… we may not have the means to scientifically figure it out at present, but who knows in the future. These things might actually be explainable as real occurences.
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Steelman, it’s the never-ending search for knowledge. Most atheists and skeptics constantly read and search out answers for all sides. It’s often more than most theists will do. As well as being entertaining, I’ve found this site to have some very valuable info on a myriad of topics, not just in the lists, but in the comments.
An addition to the answer is that there are a lot more atheists out there than you may realize.
archangel, chemistry may have been considered “magic” at one time, but it was because people in the middle ages were credulous, superstitious and the scientific method did not exist. Despite what people called it at the time, it was still chemistry (at least legitimate chemistry), just like electricity was electricity before it was discovered. It was tangible, it always existed and was testable. Supernatural claims will never be testable by science because they simply don’t exist and you cannot test that which does not exist, all you can do is believe in it using faith (or gullibility), or dismiss it due to the lack (or non-existence) of evidence to support it.
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:21 pm
108. Skydiver
I hope I dont sound like an insufferable nitpicker but while it is true that chemistry and electricity were always there, we called it magic because we did not understand them. Today, we might not call it magic but we do call it unknown. Maybe some baffling phenomenon of today will be explained tomorrow by an experiment that states without a doubt that it was a ghost (or some other supernatural phenomenon)? Using the example someone above posted, maybe tomorrow we will find proof of that invisible fire-breathing dragon in the garage!
Basically, you cant say “they simply dont exist”. You can, however, say that as of right now, there is no solid evidence to prove their existance.
(I apologize in advance, I´m having a horrible day at work and this somewhat captious argument has lightened up my mood somewhat!
Feel the love though!)
February 4th, 2009 at 10:48 am
109. GTT
You don’t sound like a nitpicker, just someone who is basing science on belief. It’s an honest mistake. For whatever reason, supernatural events and psychic ability are more acceptable as possible, likely and even fact by a large number of people. However, in the realm of science, they are none of these.
Consider this, suppose we replace “supernatural phenomenon” with “fairies”. Do you believe in fairies? Probably not. But *why* not? Can you prove that they don’t exist? Of course not, but this doesn’t automatically default them to existence. If someone were to say to you that perhaps one day science will be able to prove the existence of fairies, would it hold as much value as saying it will one day be able to prove the existence of supernatural phenomenon? So far, there is absolutely no evidence to even support the possibility of their existence. So from a scientific view, I can say “they simply don’t exist” as confidently as I can say that fairies don’t exist.
Just because a larger number of people believe a lie, it doesn’t validate it. Even people who present scenarios that are deemed “unexplainable” (seeing a ghost, a psychic reader getting a unlikely “hit”) doesn’t mean they are supernatural events. In fact, if science is going to do anything, it will likely explain why our brains realistically create episodes like ghosts, alien abduction or out of body experiences. Experiments like The God Helmet may be a key to that discovery somewhere down the road.
As for psychics knowing things they shouldn’t, I’ve watched Cris Angel walk on water and pass through walls; can I explain how he did it? No. But I’m certainly not going to jump to the conclusion that he has supernatural powers. Some do. However, it’s far more likely that it’s a trick. Just because you can’t figure out how the trick is done, does not make it supernatural, it makes it a damn good trick.
February 4th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Skydiver:
LOL…
I actually completely agree with your last post! I really do! I guess I was just having a horrible day and got some sort of perverse, wicked pleasure in picking a fight…
Sorry for that, I´m having a better day today!
That said, I think your post 110 was actually very well stated and I think it should clear up any questions if they remain.
February 5th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
9# is real bullshit. ther is no soul in the body!. the last breath take out all the air in the boby away. air weight
February 5th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
A couple of quotes from the Bible about the condition of the dead: “For dust you are and dust you will return” Genesis 3:19 Man and beast have the same outcome. “As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all but have one spirit, so that (in death)there is no superiority of the man over beast…They have all come to be from dust, and they are all returning to dust.”Ecclesiastes 3; 19,20 Solomon further explained what death means, saying: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” Yes, the dead know absolutely nothing. In view of this, Solomon urged: “All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) Where do the dead go? To Sheol (Hebrew, she’ohl′), the common grave of mankind. Our dead loved ones are not conscious of anything. They are not suffering, and they cannot affect us in any way.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I don’t have anything to say about this list, but I kind of look like the pic of the girl @ number four. Weiird.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Anyone else notice that in the Ghost Hunters show, the camera never seems to catch any of the events – it is always looking in the wrong direction, or a few seconds too late in responding.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:46 am
You cannot catch a ghost or spirit on camera. Ghosts are not stupid enough to show themselves to a group of prying idiots, who do things like that just for publicity. If they do show themselves, it is in private, not when you are expecting it with a load of cameras waiting. I should know. I have plenty of experience.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
#
19. Mrs Polidori – January 31st, 2009 at 6:24 am
There is an after-life. I have my own proof.
~well, what is it?
February 14th, 2009 at 6:53 am
Well, if I told you in detail, you wouldn’t believe me, but let’s just say, it involves a relationship between a living person and a ghost. Oh, and the ghost knew the person before they had even heard the name of the ghost.
February 16th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Similarly to Houdini, the Beatles had a pact that when one of them died, they would do their best to get in contact with the others. Stu Sutcliffe (an early bass player) was the first to die, then Lennon and Harrison. Paul has explained about the pact and said that he’s never had any contact with Stu, John or George since their deaths. Ringo has said in interview that he sensed John near him when he was in a bad mood once, but he did used to drink tremendous amounts of brandy!
February 26th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
i was watching a TV program (i know it may be easily tore apart but thats my refernce point) that UFO sightings only happened more often after the bomb was dropped. Coincidence?
maybe, or it may be that they were thinkin ‘Oh no, the Kids have found the matchs’, and were curious that we are who we are now. who knows how long ‘they’ may have known about us, if theyve survived for that long in our universe, or whatever, il leave up to you to decide
February 26th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
apologies for the off topic ^^ but i wanted to mention it.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:58 am
No 86 Alisca – I agree with you as I also have proof. In fact I am now writing a book about peoples amazing readings by mediums and the outcomes. There are a lot of closed minds out there.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Uhm… that’s woman’s French is awful. French people don’t say “ehmielee” for Emily. “Ahmehlee” Amelie. Like the movie. Also hypnotism isn’t proof, cause there is lots of theories that hypnotism doesn’t really work because only people who want to be hypnotised can be hypnotised, and maybe under the delusion of being hypnotised one can out out other delusions.
March 1st, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I have already done this no 122. I am looking for volunteers to share their reading experiences with me plus the outcomes. I have had five reading experiences. They were three by a Tarot Card reader, a Palmistry reader and a Clairvoyant.
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:19 pm
I just thought I would mention this to make some people give up on this just because they’re afraid of not knowing something.
I forgot which number (and its WAY too much of a hassle to scroll up and search for it), but a user said something along the lines of ”Some people have [some chemical I forgot] which gives them hallucinations. It has been believed that people get a higher dose right before they die. Explain ”near death experiences?”
And what if this is Gods way of giving us these ”hallucinations” (which would actually be the afterlife ”welcoming”, so to say), since everything God does doesn’t have to be completely bizarre?
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Oh, its #68 by the way, from Bill. Oh, Bill.
March 5th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
What if God isn’t real jakc?
March 5th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Well Spunk, what if he is?
March 9th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
I am a former skeptic who is now a believer in the paranormal. Why? Seeing is believing. Too many personal experiences (seeing apparitions for extended periods of time [with other witnesses nonetheless], hearing voices next to me which later DO show up on my audio recorder, seeing people be physically assaulted by unseen forces to where she had several 3-inch long scratch marks with fresh blood, etc. etc. ) as well as collecting evidence which I believe cannot be the result of mundane explanations.
Still, I don’t expect any skeptic to simply believe me because of eyewitness testimony. Paranormal investigation is an emerging field and we ARE making progress in getting to capture more credible solid evidence with technology.
I can honestly understand the agnostic-minded skeptics who have the “when I see it I’ll believe it” mindset, but what about those people who are so caught up in their own worldview that their own dead grandma could pop up in front of them and talk to them and they STILL wouldn’t be convinced?
But what I think is hilariously ironic, are those armchair skeptics who just not only disbelieve in the paranormal, but are just so SURE that it doesn’t exist, even going as far as ad hominem attacks on those that disagree with their worldview, as well as having an unwavering faith in the validity of the current state of science. I used to believe that science was “all about progress” and “truth conquers all”, but do a little research in the flaws of the peer-review process and scientific censorship. Read up on Thomas Kuhn and you’ll see just what scientific progress is really made up of. Google search “scientific suppression” and you will find a substantial number of academics who were shafted by the scientific establishment just because they wouldn’t tow the party line. Or if you’re the type of person that’s just so impressed by James Randi and Michael Shermer, look up sites explaining “pseudoskeptics” which shed the light on their dogmatic viewpoints.
People need to learn the difference between the philosophy of science and the human-created scientific community which suffers from the same egotism, same dogmatism, and same politics which affect ANY community. Not to mention the INCREASINGLY converging relationship between Science and Big Business. Scientists need to earn a living…how many scientists would really speak up against their corporate sponsor or willingly alienate themselves among their peers….or would they rather play it safe and turn a blind eye?
Now I am not implying that most of science is wrong or dirty, but it does have significant flaws and there are several areas where it is lacking and I believe the paranormal field is one of them.
So in conclusion, to all the people who’ve witnessed the paranormal and believe it, I’m right there with you. And to those honest skeptics who haven’t experienced what we’ve experienced, it’s perfectly understandable for you to not believe. In fact, I agree it’s far more rational for you not to then take some crazy kook like me at face value.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Cory: nice post there, spelt it out fairly clearly i thought.
March 11th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
I am ashsamed to say I am a skeptic like everyone else here, despite hearing God’s voice, and that of Angels to whom made my body feel euphoric. Science has attempted to prove this wrong by saying it is nothing but a chemical imbalance.
However, I can’t explain one experience. At night, I heard footsteps comming towards me, and in fright, turned around and went inside. The following day, there were darkened footsteps leading up to where I was. Two other people saw theses footsteps.
Before this, I had an epiphany, and also before this, I saw a spirit. Not to mention, seeing a lamb walk across the street and disappear.
The rest can easily be denounced, but the footsteps is inexplicable, and ironically placed in my life during a very spiritual time.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:41 am
its thrilling!i still don’t know what is reality but friends this universe is full of mysteries.everything is systematic.there is cause for everything.nothing happens itself.there must be an explanation for unnatural phenomenon.and that is yet to come.in real i don’t want to accept that there is ghost but there is fear.also i want to beleive in god but i never met him\her.whatever we know is ,given from parent,surroundings& films.
June 3rd, 2009 at 4:22 am
poor, poor philip. never existed. neither in life nor in death.
July 13th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Well, why on earth should Richard Dawkins feel the presence of God, after all he´s done to keep away from him?
July 25th, 2009 at 10:53 am
i believe in God, grappled on the concept of atheistism in college but ended up still believing that there must be someone higher than what we are. but unlike other religious who obsess with the afterlife. may it be scientist who do insane experiments to prove so, or of religious who obsess on sacrificing good things in life for gratification on the afterlife. i just leave it so. i believe we will deal if there is an afterlife when our life is over. people are forgetting that we must live our life when we are still alive.
July 25th, 2009 at 10:58 am
i believe that there is no ghosts coming from the afterlife. it is created by the living that has unfinished business with someone gone. of an unsecured individual afraid of what may happened after our death.
August 1st, 2009 at 5:22 am
wow, i have ahuge interest about all of this, thanks
August 2nd, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I believe in an afterlife myself. I’m just not sure what it is. I personally think that we have some sort of energy that is released after we die. Basically, the soul. What happens after, though, I have no clue. Is it recycled and used to give life again? Is it ushered to another reality where it is doomed to play the harp for eternity? Does it just imprint itself if strong enough and make a recording on reality, causing there to be a ghost that repeats its actions? Does it dissipate and leave the owner with barely a vague awareness making existing worse than hell itself?