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History

Top 10 Lesser-Known Savages In History

There are always two sides to history. Unfortunately, history has generally been written by the victor. As a result, only one viewpoint is told and exaggerations are made, but occasionally the other angle gets out there. It is then up to the student to determine what is authentic and what is mere fabrication. History shows that the following people were 10 of the most barbaric men who ever lived. Whether the general consensus on them is true or not, that’s for you to decide. Nonetheless, the facts that are known reveal 10 men who are corrupt in nature and will do anything or kill anyone to get what they want and often for sheer enjoyment. They personify the word “bloodthirsty.” At times, sharing traits with the most savage of beasts, these men prove that humans aren’t so different from animals.

10

Lope de Aguirre

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Aguirre stands out as one of the most ruthless of the Spanish conquistadors. He arrived in Peru in 1544 and in 1560 joined an expedition of several hundred men led by Pedro de Ursua in search of El Dorado. Aguirre eventually turned against Ursua’s leadership and would have Ursua executed. The man who took over, Fernando de Guzman, would also soon be put to death. Aguirre declared “I am the Wrath of God” and took over the mission. Those who remained on the mission who were against him were executed. As he sailed down the Amazon, Aguirre slaughtered those who he met along the way. In 1561 he showed himself in open rebellion against the Spanish crown by seizing Isla Margarita, off the coast of present day Venezuela, from Spanish settlers. He was surrounded and captured at Barquisimeto. With his execution approaching, Aguirre reportedly murdered his own daughter to ensure that no one but him could love her.

9

Fernando Álvarez de Toledo
3rd Duke of Alba

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One of the foremost professional soldiers of his day, Alba was the commander in chief of Charles V army. Despite diminishing trust in Alba, Charles’ heir, Phillip II sent Alba as an emissary to France to hold negotiations with Catherine de Medici. With an anti-Protestant policy, it is believed that Alba helped lay the groundwork for the massacre of French Protestants on St. Bartholomew’s Day, 1572. In 1567, Alba was dispatched as governor of the Spanish Netherlands following the outbreak of popular unrest. Determined to restore order swiftly and in a fierce fashion, Alba, with 12,000 soldiers, set up a Council of Troubles soon to be dubbed the Council of Blood. This council declared thousands of people guilty of rebelling and either exiled, imprisoned or executed them. Every class of society was hit, noble birth was often not enough to protect some. After entering Brussels, 22 of the town’s leading citizens were beheaded. Dozens more massacres were to follow. Alba’s brutal reaction to the rebellion only fueled more insurrections against the Spanish crown.


8

Antipope Clement VII

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Robert of Geneva was brilliant intellectually and was born to a family very close to the church. In 1368, aged just 26, Robert became an archbishop. Pope Gregory IX recognized his talents and promoted him to cardinal in 1371. Serving under the Pope in Italy from 1376 to 1378, Robert was in charge of suppressing the Papal States from revolting against the authority of Rome. Robert hired Sylvester Budes, leader of a band of Breton mercenaries and Sir John Hawkwood, an infamous English soldier of fortune. In 1377, Hawkwood and the Bretons, financed by the papacy, captured the city of Cesena. Hawkwood was willing to pardon the revolting townspeople in return for surrender, but Robert overruled him, ordering they be put to the sword. The mercenaries wreaked havoc on the streets. Those who hid in the Church of St. Stephen were killed and the church itself was vandalized. The convent was broken into and the nuns were raped. Over 4,000 people were slaughtered. In 1378, Bartolomeo Prignano was elected as Pope Urban VI. Unhappy with the choice, the cardinals reconsidered and eventually nullified Urban’s election and opted to elect Robert as Pope Clement VII. Supported by King Charles V of France, Clement established Avignon as his residence. France, Scotland and various German states recognized Clement as the Pope while Urban governed from Rome, supported by Spain and the Italian states. And so the Great Schism began. Because it is not possible for the cardinals to nullify a papal election, Clement VII was eventually recognized by all as an antipope.

7

Basil the Bulgar Slayer

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Basil II was a powerful and effective Byzantine ruler. Best described as a “hero-monster”, he was successful on all fronts and was perennially engaged in warfare. Basil ruled for 50 years and brought the Byzantine Empire to new heights, expanding it’s borders to it’s greatest extent. He Swiftly destroyed all who challenged his rule. This included rebelling landowners, his uncle and Arab invaders. Eventually he would cross paths with his enemy Tsar Samuel of Bulgaria whose own empire was swallowing up Byzantine territory. Struggling with his campaign in the beginning, Basil began to have steady success against the Bulgars. Basil would finally win a massive victory at the Battle of Kleidon on July 29, 1014 as his forces took the capital. As punishment, Basil lined up the captive Bulgar soldiers and had them blinded. He left one eye untouched for every hundred men so that the troops could find their way home. Reportedly 15,000 Bulgars, terrorized, wounded and blinded pathetically shuffled away. Tsar Samuel fainted after seeing his soldiers return and died of a stroke. Thus Basil II earned his epithet ‘Bulgar Slayer’ through this monstrous act.


6

Talat Pasha

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Pasha was the key architect of the Armenian genocide, one of the largest genocides in modern history. Over 1 million people were massacred in the span of 2 years. A member of the Young Turks, Talat rose up and became one of the three Pashas who ruled the Ottoman government in 1913 until the end of the disastrous First World War. Many Muslim Turks came to see the rise in nationalism of the Christian Armenians as a threat to the existence of the Ottoman state. Programs had already been installed against Armenians in previous years with possibly hundreds of thousands dying. 30,000 died in the Adana massacre of 1909. Once entering World War One, the Ottoman’s endeavor ended in total failure. Russian and Armenian forces set up an Armenian mini-state in 1915 and thus Talat Pasha sought to punish them. Security forces rounded up 250 Armenian intellectuals and leaders in Istanbul in 1915, and eventually executed them. After passing a Deportation Law, Pasha ordered deportations and executions to be carried out against the whole Armenian population. During the deportations, conditions were deplorable and men were routinely separated from the rest and executed. Many prisoners were tortured and were victims of gruesome medical experiments. More died of hunger and thirst. In some instances victims would be crucified in imitation of Jesus as the perpetrators would say: “Now let your Christ come help you!” Others would have red-hot irons and pincers applied to their flesh. Out of a population of 2.5 million Armenians, between 1 and 1.5 million perished in this period. After the Ottoman collapse, Talat Pasha fled to Berlin and was subsequently murdered there in 1921. His assassin was an Armenian genocide survivor.

5

Lothar von Trotha

Lothar Von Trotha

Issuing one of the first historically documented orders for genocide, von Trotha who was the commander in chief of German South-West Africa had to put down a major rebellion, led by the Herero tribe. With an army of 10,000, von Trotha surrounded the Herero in a single location on three sides. The only escape for the Herero was to enter the Kalahari Desert. The Herero numbered about 50,000 with 6,000 warriors. They could not compete with the German forces who had modern rifles, machine guns and artillery. As the surviving Hereros escaped into the desert as planned, von Trotha ordered all the watering holes to be poisoned. Fences were erected along the desert boundary with guard posts to watch for any who tried to escape. Anyone caught would be shot on sight. Eventually von Trotha would issue an Extermination Order. Those who were not shot on sight would be put into labor camps and pushed into slavery. Thousands of Herero died from overwork, disease or starvation. Many of the women were sexually abused. Only 15,000 out of the initial 80,000 Herero population remained alive. Due to the supposed inferiority, some Herero were the subject of medical experiments. Later, there was a Nama uprising and some 10,000 died. Another 9,000 were put into concentration camps. On von Trotha’s watch, the Herero and Nama tribes had all been eradicated.


4

Tomás de Torquemada

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A man of Jewish descent, Torquemada was the first inquisitor general in Spain. Torquemada convinced the government, led by Ferdinand and Isabella, that the presence of Jews, Muslims and recent false converts to Christianity in Spain represented a dangerous corruption of the true Catholic faith. Because of Torquemada, repressive laws were passed to force the expulsion of Spain’s non-Christian minorities. He received support from Pope Sixtus IV. Torquemada, now matching the authority of Ferdinand and Isabella themselves, oversaw the proclamation of the 28 articles listing the sins that the Inquisition aimed to purge. Identifying and exposing “Marranos” (Jews who had pretended to be Christian but continued to practice Judaism) was a main focus. Inquisitors were granted power to do whatever necessary to reveal the truth. This inevitably led to violent persecution. In February 1484 alone, 30 people in the city of Ciudad Real were found guilty of crimes and burnt alive. Between 1485 and 1501, 250 people were burnt in Toledo. In 1492, in Torquemada’s home town of Valladolid, 32 people were burnt. Declaring that Jews were a mortal threat, in 1492 Ferdinand and Isabella decreed that all Jews who had not converted to Christianity were to be expelled from Spain. About 40,000 left the country, many of them given sanctuary by the tolerant Islamic Ottomans in Istanbul and several other cities. Torquemada remained as inquisitor general believing that his work was not done. He became wealthy as well due to all that he had confiscated. He would eventually die in office after two decades of burning approximately two thousand people.

3

Godfrey of Bouillon

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Godfrey, the duke of Lower Lorraine, led the first crusade and was a brutal religious fundamentalist. In 1095 pope Urban II called for crusaders to assist Byzantine emperor Alexius I against Turkish forces attacking Christian Byzantium and to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims. In 1096, Godfrey gathered an army of about 40,000 and declared that he was determined to avenge the blood of Jesus on the Jewish people. Godfrey’s reputation grew as the years went on. In 1098, Godfrey reportedly killed 150 Turks with only 12 knights. Later that year, he cut a Turk in half with a single, downward swipe of his sword. Finally in 1099, Godfrey took aim at Jerusalem. On Friday July 15th, Godfrey was one of the first crusaders to breach the city’s defenses via siege tower. After opening the gates, the crusaders charged into the city. With Muslim citizens fleeing to the al-Aqsa Mosque, Iftikhar ad-Dawla, the Fatimid governor of Jerusalem, made his last stand. On condition of surrender, Iftikhar and some of his solders were allowed to escape. For the next two days, the crusaders pillaged Muslim holy sites and slaughtered everyone left in the city regardless of whether they were combatants or civilians, Muslim or Jew. Victims were either burned to death or had their stomachs cut open with the belief that Muslims swallowed their gold. The Jews fled to a synagogue which the crusaders would burn down. Reportedly piles of heads, hands and feet were scattered throughout the city. Godfrey walked barefoot through the blood, his feet colored to his ankles in the blood of men, women and children. His fellow crusaders chose him to become the first Christian ruler of Jerusalem. He would die of plague a year later, his mission complete.


2

Sawney Beane

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Beane was the head of an incestuous clan who lived off robbery, murder and cannibalism. Some historians suggest that he never existed and say that his story was propaganda created by the English demonizing the Scottish. The story goes that Alexander Beane left home, never showing an interest in work, with an equally unpleasant local woman. Once they arrived at Bennane Head, they set up home in a coastal cave hidden away from the view of passers-by. Over the next 25 years, Beane and the woman raised a family of about 8 sons and 6 daughters who bred together to produce 18 grandsons and 14 granddaughters. The family was raised without any notions of humanity. They preyed on travelers who traversed near their stretch of coast and would rob and kill their victims. The clan would then drag the victims body back to their cave where they dismembered the body and devour it. Leftovers were pickled and unwanted parts were disposed into the sea. Often times the remains would wash up onto the chore. Gradually suspicion arose among the locals. One night, the Beane clan attacked a married couple on horseback. The man managed to fight off the clan with a sword and pistol, but unfortunately his wife was knocked off the horse. She was immediately disemboweled and the Beane clan drank her blood. The man escaped and alarmed the locals of what had happened. King James VI of Scotland (James I of England) was notified not long afterwards. Hundreds of men and bloodhounds were sent after the clan. The bloodhounds tracked the scent of human flesh back to the cave. Upon entering, the men were hit with a putrid smell as they gazed upon the grisly image of dried flesh hanging from the walls and pickled body parts in barrels. The Beanes made no attempt to escape. They were executed without a trial. It was said that the clan had over a thousand victims.

1

Gilles de Rais

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Rais was a Breton who fought against the English, often serving alongside Joan of Arc. A year after Joan was burned at the stake, Rais retired from military service and returned to his family’s castle at Machecoul. From there, Rais began a campaign of sadistic sex murders, killing between 60 and 200 children. He preferred boys between the ages of 6 and 18. His victims were generally blue-eyed and blond-haired and were usually kidnapped from the village of Machecoul and the surrounding areas or lured to his castle. His first victim was a 12-year-old messenger who was hanged by his neck on a metal hook and raped before being put out of his misery. More and more children started to disappear and suspicion arose. Unfortunately, the locals were too terrified to go up against one of the most powerful men in France. Rais had a specially built chamber where he would restrain his victims while he proceeded with his grotesque sexual acts. He would kill them with a variety of methods which included dismemberment, decapitation and disembowelment. He enjoyed watching them die sometimes even laughing. After some difficulty, a case was finally brought up against him. Rais stated at his trial that he admired the heads and body parts of his more beautiful victims. Gilles was arrested in September of 1440 and indicted on 34 counts of murder. He would eventually confess to the murders under the threat of torture. Rais was found guilty of murder, sodomy and heresy. Gilles was hanged and then burned on October 16, 1440, along with two of his servants. Rais was granted the right of confession after expressing remorse. He refused to admit he was a devil worshipper and professed the strength of his faith. Gilles de Rais would become one of the first known serial killers in history. The guilt and conscience that he would show when not taken over by the urge to murder only confirmed how depraved and mentally disturbed this man was.

Listverse Staff

Listverse is a place for explorers. Together we seek out the most fascinating and rare gems of human knowledge. Three or more fact-packed lists daily.

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  • rain

    Where's Hitler?

    @Amnotamoose

    Our culture rocks dumbass. . .

    Unlike Americans and Europeans who don't have culture. . .

    • bigkahuna

      Americans and Europeans have a culture. And yes, the guy who wrote that is a giant, ignorant asswipe.

  • Avi

    Such a shame they lost the Big Crazy popularity contest :P

  • kassie

    yayyyyy

  • macsmid

    I’m glad I wasn’t around during those times

  • Avi

    @macsmid: Nutjobs exist in all eras, just that nowadays it may be harder to get away with doing it very secretly.

  • Manda

    A very interesting list. It is incredible what some people can do in the name of religion. When I first saw the title of the list, I thought it would be about discovered feral children.
    And Macsmaid, what do you mean “Those times”? The most recent on the list was in 1909, only 100 years ago. Ok, so I’m a historian. 100 years isn’t that long!

  • Vladimir Lenin

    More like ten lesser known savages in EUROPE!!!! What about Asia and Africa assholes!! Seriously writers should stop generalising the title of their list!!

  • The Squire

    listverse is no longer on my favourites list. What was once a great, informative and well researched site is now an embarrassing rehash of wikipedia and questionable personal opinion. And I haven’t even started on the comments list. JFrater, why?

  • Jackson S.

    @Lenin (6)

    There are a couple of entries dealing with the Middle East, so the list isn’t completely European.

    Also, African, Asian, and, while we are at it, Native American despots, tyrants, and maniacs are a bit more well known due to European colonial powers wanting to create the idea that all foreigners were savages. (I would also mention Native Australians, but I have no knowledge of any of them being crazy murderers on the scale of this list’s entries.)

  • flgh

    @Amnotamoose (8): Nobody likes you, your pointed hood, your burning cross, & your swastika here, GTFO

    See? I know how to generalize too

  • Janus

    What about Vlad Tepes II?????

  • Vera Lynn

    ok. This is bizarre. Hmm.

  • SURYA

    Asian and African assholes should start realizing their cultures suck and are not worth mentioning in a list of savages.

  • Manda

    @Janus, Vlad Tepes II is fairly well know, and this list is about “Top 10 LESSER KNOWN savages in history”. I’m guessing that would be why.

  • Vera Lynn

    The Squire (7) Dont leave us,please. We need you. Stay.

  • Avi

    @Janus: Vlad Tepes II is pretty famous so I dont think he would fit on this list.

  • rain

    BTW Asians are less violent people. . . So there’s no Asian Savage on the list.

  • flgh

    @Manda (14): Torquemada & especially de Rais aren’t really lesser-known either, but they’re on this list

  • astraya

    How many of these have a denial and/or revisionist industry attached to them?

  • El the erf

    I go with the Joker’s philosophy.Remember what he said in Dark Knight?
    “You’ll see… when the chips are down,these civilized people, they’ll eat each other ”
    Glaring example in real life – Tyson biting off Holyfield’s ear(… all them boxers are savage anyway)

  • WiseMenSay

    most of these aren’t particularly savage for their time. except maybe Gilles de Rais, who had a reputation kind of like Vlad Tepes or Elizabeth Bathory. also, Sawney Beane is a myth.

  • Jono

    Too lazy to read today…

    But nice photos! :)

  • lrigD

    Nice list =) Actually I live in the city that was the first in the Netherlands to win a siege by Alba’s army =D We still celebrate it…

  • Skrillah

    Evil or not we are still talking about them even to this day. Easily forgettable list but good work!

  • Chinli

    16 @ rain:What about Hitler?Read the title,it says Lesser-Known.Good list but nothing new,thanks anyway.!

  • SKJ

    I think a good entry for the list would be the Danish King Christian II, who in 1520, in a massive betrayal beheaded almost the entire swedish nobility in Stockholm. Now theres an asshole for you!

  • tremblingfingers

    @The Squire (7):
    “And I haven’t even started on the comments list”
    I agree on that part… Sad… So sad.

  • Armodillotron

    If Lotha von Trotha (sounds like an Indiana Jones villain, doesn`t he), set up concentration camps, used Africans as slave labour, and did medical experiments on Africans, doesn`t that make him the Hitler of Africa? A documentary about him was on telly a few years ago, and he seemed a right nutcase.

  • Miss_Info

    You forgot Richard Chase and the lesser known evil twin of ghengis khan…

  • Tango

    @The Squire (7):
    If you don’t like the site then leave but do it quietly. No need for the attention whoring.

  • tripsyman

    Edward 1st was a bit of a bast*rd as well – stole the crown of scotland, robbed the jewish people, terrorised the welsh and irish….. I could go on and on.

    Oh and he murdered William Wallace along the way – but not before Wallace had his naughty way with the English queen (OK that bit was just hollywood but as a scot it appeals to me )

    Anyway back to my first point Edward 1 really was an evil bast*rd

  • tripsyman

    Oh and Sawney Bean – not bad just misunderstood

  • majava

    rain (18): “BTW Asians are less violent people. . . So there’s no Asian Savage on the list.”

    Less violent? From what I have understood about medieval japan,with it’s samurai laws and seppuku or china, it was equally violent. And what about the japanese action in China during the WW2. Unit 731 anyone? Not violent or savage??

  • Columbofan

    The list was a good concept just a little bit eurocentric but thats quite refreshing compared to your typical image of a savage. As for all the “my culture beats yours”, shouldn’t we discuss and debate the list, it is listverse afterall.
    Does anyone know whats happened to cogitz?

  • oouchan

    I knew of 6 of these so not so “lesser known” for me. :)

    Although he might be a little more well known (about as much as Torquemada) should have added Mugabe. Talk about savage. What he is doing to his own people is sick.

  • Lowdog

    (35) exactly what i was thinking

  • slipstick

    I don’t think that Torquemada deserves to be on the list. After all, anybody who’s watch History of the World; Part I knows who he is. lol

  • jasper_cebu

    Good List!
    Who’s from the Philippines here?..
    I’m from Cebu..

  • Armodillotron

    William Wallace who was a war-criminal (don`t believe “Braveheart,” that`s a load of bullshit). He murdered, tortured and raped Northern England, until good old Edward thought “I`d had enouugh of this shit,” and crushed his Army. Then later on, had him hung, drawn and quartered, and his body put on display all over England. Great guy!

  • Lifeschool

    Hi, well done KGB for another detailed and reseached list.

    I had heard of only one of these characters, and thats only because they made a movie about him and his exploits.

    Quite sadistic in parts, the list may appeal to those who don’t immidiately feel ill when reading about it, or who thrive in the dark spaces of the mind.

    Me? The Sun is shining in a clear blue sky above a town blanketed in white snow. The air is crisp, the fire is warm, and the writer of this comment is thankful.

  • Arsnl

    Pasha is actually a title like king or czar. So saying pasha did this or that is like saying king did this or that. Dont make no sense to me:-p
    also torquemada is lesser known? And i dont believe the cutting of a man in two with a sigle blow. Thats obviously an exageration.

  • Toeknee112

    What I find most interesting (ridiculous)about most of these lists is the freakin’ descriptions! Good Lord, they should be entered in the The Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest! “It was a dark and stormy night. And since the beginning of life, the realm of cautionary tales has existed through history but can also be considered a subset of life as we dig deep into the vast past the members of this list are all suited to it sufficiently to overlook the duplication for it is during the process of excretion that a book seems most useful…” SHEESH

  • timmar68

    @38 (slipstick) *slapping forehead* Doh! THAT’S right! When I read about Torquemada it bugged me about where I heard it before! Now I can start my day.

  • zlorwf

    There is no proof of the Armenian Genocide. Turks want to agree with Armenians to create a study group on the "so called" genocide, but Armenians decline it every time.

    • Truth Teller

      There are millions of proofs that The Armenian Genocide happened, books written by europian soldiers who wrote down the tortures of the Armenians and how they were walking in lines to the desert. There are many countries that accepted it, Turkey has always been a violent country, The Armenian Genocide happened just like The Jewish Holocaust did, in fact when Hitler was about to begin the holocaust they asked him of what people would think and he simply replied by saying that they won’t knowing that no one remembers the genocide of the amenian. Grow some brains and revise your facts.

  • necro_penguin

    how is gilles de rais “lesser known?” everyone i know knows who he is.

  • maxrad

    Re #6: The Armenian Genocide never happened. Just ask the Turks: they deny it to this very day.

    I would also modestly suggest Oliver Cromwell as a possible addition. “To hell or Connaught,” and all that.

  • tripsyman

    @Armodillotron (40):

    Oh! You really are a twat and an ill informed and ignorant one at that

  • ianz09

    @maxrad (46): They deny it because it is a humiliating thing and a black stain on their history. Not because it didn’t happen.

  • juanjux

    Alba was a bit of a hero too in Spain – he won a lot of battles and was probably the most brilliant military general of his time, tought fucked it all up with the tribunales. But he has been subject to a lot of english/dutch demonizing too, just check and compare the english and spanish wikipedia pages, while the spanish page talks about the military victories and the tribunales, the english page only talks about the latter.

    The fact that some cities celebrate not victories but not being routed by Alba like lrigD said talks a lot about its capacity (and his troops, which contrary to popular believe were usually outnumbered.)

  • gore

    Great and informative list, I’m only sorry it’s too late to enter the Christmas competition.
    However, FYI, Samuel was a medieval Macedonian, not Bulgarian king. Connections are tight, especially in that period, but there’s no doubt he was a Macedonian king: his capitals were Skopje and Ohrid, which are in Macedonia, and he conquered Bulgaria, Serbia, parts of northern Greece (which were parts of the Byzantine Empire) later.

  • callan

    Too long

  • Jeezlouise

    Where are the Protestant savages?

  • Arsnl

    @juanjux (49): hmm i bet your spanish. Well hitler is considered a hero by neo-nazis. If he killed people he killed people. And kgb99 avoided to insert stories like he did with others (cuttin a man in half) so i dont see the demonization. I wonder if, after 400 years, russians will consider stalin as a great ruler and they’ll start saying that westerns are demonizing him.

  • Voltaire

    Omg how could you mention the Armenian genocide?! The religion of peace™ won’t be amused…

  • Yawyack

    No Hulagu Khan? His Mongolian and Armenian army killed between 90,000-1,000,000 civilians during the sack of Baghdad. Far more than the 40,000 civilians killed by Baldwin of Boulogne’s crusading force.

    @Jackson S. (8):

    All but one of these are caused by Europeans. Its just a little funny how often we get people complaining about lists being too western-centric, and yet not one non-westerner has claimed it over this list. Is that because it could also taint their history? Double-standards perhaps?

    Also how non-western “savages” more well known? I think that is a ridiculous and totally unfounded claim. The only two that are well known is Attila the Hun and Genghis Khan. Compare that with the amount of Medieval, Dark-Age and Classical era European “savages”.

    @rain (15):

    How can Americans and Europeans have no culture? Do you even know what that word means? Art, music, literature, and a people with shared beliefs and practices. All these come under the umbrella of the term culture.

    The Americas despite being dominated by the creation of relatively new peoples has distinct varieties of all these. Or do you generally believe someone from Rio de Janeiro would feel just at home in Quebec?

    Europe is incredibly varied with different languages, peoples and cultures that have being around and developing for such an incredibly long time that your comment just reeks of xenophobia, ignorance and stupidity.

    @tripsyman (32):

    Edward I wasn’t that bad. No different from any other medieval monarch.

    What do you mean “stole the crown”? From what I know he didn’t claim to be Scotland’s king. There were fourteen claimants for the Scottish throne. Edward I was invited to settle the dispute. As payment he asked for, and was elected, Lord Paramount of Scotland. The claimant John Balliol was elected king. I really wouldn’t class him as a savage nor deserving to be on this list.

    William Wallace has being way too over-romanticised.

    @Arsnl (53):

    No need to wait that long, it appears they think that now. In a poll I think just under half of people thought that very thing. I saw it last month.

  • Ro

    Nice list KGB99, but how in the hell did you leave out Yahya Khan, the architect of the Bengali genocide?

  • deeeziner

    @rain (17): Pol Pot comes to mind, but as there is nothing “lesser known” about his effect on Cambodia I can see why he didn’t make this list.

    To KGB99–Another fine list to be added to the LV archives. You have increased my knowledge in the realm of macabre and squirmy historical figures.

    I also noticed that the grammar nazis don’t have much here to feed on.

  • Armodillotron

    I agree with Voltaire-if Islam is a religion of peace, then I`m Mother Teressa. Armenians were killed, tortured, raped, put on death marches, beaten to death, forced to convert to Islam and so on. Religion of peace? Yeah right. But then again, what about Pope Innocent III, and The Albigensian Crusade?

  • Yawyack

    @Arsnl (53):

    Here it is:

    “A recent poll indicates that most Russians already view Stalin’s regime favorably. The survey, by the VTsIOM center for public opinion shows that 54 percent of Russians view Stalin’s leadership qualities favorably. Only 8 percent, by contrast, gave a low assessment.

    Last year, Stalin placed third in a television poll to identify the greatest Russian ever, behind 13th-century warrior Alexander Nevsky and early 20th-century reformer Pyotr Stolypin.”

    http://www.rferl.org/content/Mixed_Feelings_As_Russia_Marks_130_Years_Since_Stalins_Birth/1909726.html

  • Mitroman

    What about Ante Pavelic, head of the Ustasha???????

  • Arsnl

    @Yawyack (59): well thats good. What if he killed and deported millions. I think he’s a good guy. Never hear of a bad guy with a moustache: sadam hussein, hitler, lotha’ von trotha (as ive seen in his photo). A stache is a symbol of kindness towards people and puppies

  • Rolo Tomasi

    Good work KGB. Good list, excellent descriptions. Eventhough you mentioned it yourself, the Sawney Beans are a folk tale. A very disturbing folk tale.

  • Mariane

    And what about Idi Amin Dada who fed his opponents to his crocodiles.And Ivan the terrible who tortured his own son to death?

  • Arsnl

    @Mariane (63): read the title!! I think this has been said a couple of times before. Im glad i got my chance to say it.

  • Voltaire

    @Yawyack
    Well in fact the rumor is that Stalin was #1 in this list but Putin changed the results. I can understand the politically incorrect choice of the Russian people a bit, because imo Stalin is indeed demonized. I think he is demonized for very good reasons (he was a monster), but I can also understand when many Russians admire him. I think the two major reasons for his appeal are:
    1) He won the “Great Patriotic War” against Nazi Germany
    2) Under Stalin Russia became a world power, which ruled over many, many countries. Many Russians want this “good old times” back.

  • Arsnl

    @Voltaire (65): Well russia as a super power was not like the us as a super power. It didnt improve their lifes. Russians didnt get to go to nice places to spend their holidays, they didnt drive nice cars they didnt have nice houses with a garden in the back. The pole is a result of the ’97 economic crisis. People tend to remember that they were unemployed yesterday not that their grandfather had it really rough.

  • KatiesGoldenDust

    I’ve only heard of numbers one and two. Nice list. I enjoyed reading it, though I can’t say I enjoyed imaging the suffering those poor people had to go through.

  • Armodillotron

    Stalin was evil. I don`t care what Russians say. The Great Terror, The Great Purges, military blunders, where up to 27 million died, sending Russians to labour camps, and Russians who had been in Nazi concentration camps to labour camps, the Ukraine famine, letting his own son die.. Why do Putin, Russians and Georgians say he`s a hero? How come when people glorify Hitler, they say there Nazis, fascists, rascists, and when people deny that 6 million Jews were killed, you risk getting THROWN IN PRISON, but not with Stalin?

  • Voltaire

    @Arsnl
    Yeah that’s what I meant. It’s called nostalgia. It’s a very common behavior. In Germany for example 30% of the East Germans are electing the successor party of the Socialist Unity Party again.

  • Voltaire

    @Armodillotron
    “Why do Putin […] say he’s a hero?”

    Since when does he say that? What about some sources? I think I told you some reasons why they like him. Since you started comparing Hitler and Stalin, I’ll give you another cynical reason why you can still admire Stalin today but not Hitler: Hitler fucked up the war and Stalin didn’t :D

  • Arsnl

    @Armodillotron (68): well cuz nazism was explicitly anti-semitic. It targeted a specific community while stalin went just for “enemies of the people”- people that opposed him. Many of the mass murders occured only cuz the ones with power were incompetent- the great hunger wasnt planned buy the nazi final solution was. And lets not forget that there are still communist parties in europe: france, italy i think. Communism as an ideology isnt “all bad”.
    @Voltaire (69): yes its an annoying thing. I guess it also has to do with the wide spread of corruption plus for someone that was used to communism it is pretty hard to turn all of a sudden to a capitalistic society where you have to be more dynamic.

  • Armodillotron

    Alright, he didn`t say he was a hero, but he did say he was, “The greatest Russian leader.” And he wasn`t even Russian! and sure he didn`t lose the war. But at a cost of 27 MILLION people dead? Their`s being a great leader. And yeah, it`s understandable Russians are nostalgic for “the good old days,” when they were a Superpower. Who wouldn`t be? Why do we never become nostalgic for the “Good old days,” of The British Empire? We had an even bigger Empire than Russia. We ruled a quarter of the globe, ruled 350, million people, yet we never moan about how we`d like to have that back. But of course if we did, the political correct brigade would come out in droves..

  • Voltaire

    @Arsnl
    Corruption was also a huge problem in the SU. But I agree to that “for someone that was used to communism it is pretty hard to turn all of a sudden to a capitalistic society where you have to be more dynamic.”

    I might sound crazy, but fact is that a lot of people were actually pretty happy with socialism. They had a safe job, something to eat and an apartment. Ofc all this on a very poor standard but since all the people were poor, no one really cared. Ofc you couldn’t say what you want, too and when you wanted to leave these rotten country you got shot in the back by cowards but nevertheless a lot of people were happy with their life. Humans can be very strange :D

  • Voltaire

    @Armodillotron
    “Why do we never become nostalgic for the “Good old days,” of The British Empire?”

    I dunno. I know some British fellows who become pretty nostalgic. Hell I’m American and even I become nostalgic :D.
    The British Empire was a great thing, I admire it very much. You built railroads and bridges in foreign countries that exist until this very day. Without you countries like India would still be full of maharajas and savages. But if you say this out loud today you are called chauvinist or even racist :P

  • stefan

    @rain (15): LOL…. europeans dont have culture?????????? WHERE DID YOU PULL THAT BULLSHIT FROM !?!?!?
    italy, greece, france etc etc… no culture? more than africa i can tell you that!
    because in the end, a straw hut or a spear cannot match roman/greek architecture you dumbass!

  • Voltaire

    Not to mention the USA, Canada, Australia, The Middle East, Hong Kong, South Africa, etc. You should be really proud on your country.

  • Armodillotron

    Yeah The British Empire was great.. That`s when we WERE Great Britain! What I`ve never understood is why people say we were awful. For God`s sake, Africans have said to The Queen that she should apologise for slavery! We`ve always been hated. Only recently, Malaysia, have have said we should apologise for things we did, 60 years ago, Israel want an apology, because we beat an Israeli terrorist to death, and Mau Mau veterans from Kenya, want compensation, because we tortured them! Did anyone know that Obama`s Dad was a Mau Mau terrorist, and we tortured him? That`s why he hates this country.

  • Arsnl

    @zlorwf (77): and i guess ur a turk. I hate revisionists. Or maybe i should call you an ottoman?? Geesh why are the turks the only ones that dont want to admit there was a genocide. Well thats why you wont get accepted in the eu.
    @Voltaire (73): does it matter that you’re poor, if you’re free :-) ?

  • jackpot

    @arsnl (79): i’m not turkish and seriously, there’s no such thing called as armenian genocide.just look it up from a reliable source and you’ll see

  • Ozhan

    The flowwing is quoted from a transcript of a testimony delivered by Prof. Justin McCarthy before the House Committee on International Relations on May 15, 1996.

    ___________

    …Armenians cooperated with Russian invaders of Eastern Anatolia in wars in 1828, 1854, and 1877…

    …They (Armenians) took the city of Van and held it until Russia invaders arrived, killing all but a few of the Muslims of the city and surrounding villages…

    …they (Ottoman goverment) order Ottoman officials to protect deported Armenians…

    …The Armenians of Istanbul lived through the war, their churches open…

    …hundreds of thousands of Armenians survived deportation to the Arab World… (which at the time under Ottoman control)

    …where Ottoman control was weakest that columns of Armenian deportees suffered most…

    …British themselves, who had complete control over all Ottoman official records, were forced at the time (occupation of Istanbul) to admit that they could find no evidence of an organized genocide against Armenians…

    … That is an historical error and a wrong that perpetuates the ethnic hatred that caused the disaster of the Armenians, as well as the disaster of the Turks. The events of World War I should be honored and mourned as a human, not an ethnic tragedy…

    • Truth Teller

      @Armodillotron also.Nothing such as that happened, these are the lies that they taught you in school. There are proofs, photos, videos, written down articles by European writers and soldiers. And let me guess, you’re Turkish. It happened as sure as the Holocaust did. You are both ignorents, this isn’t only an issue of religion but also ethnic. Armenians who lived under the Ottoman empire were forced to talk in Turkish they had to wear “ian” after their last name so they could differentiate them form turkish citizens (discrimination and racism,bravo!), they also had no right to possess weapons and they could only ride donkeys cause horses were only for turks. The plan of The Young Turks was premeditated and wrote down which seriously aggravates everything. A lot of countries accepted the Genocide including America, when President Woodrow Wilson showed Western Armenia and declared them as Armenian Lands, also Nagorno Karapagh is ours and has always been, the Soviet Union offered it to Azerbeijan. Swallow your pride and accept the facts. Also Erdogan’s and Aliyev’s comportment tells a lot on the subject.

      • Ozhan

        @Truth Teller; I guess you were replying to me? Because Armodillotron was talking about Stalin and Obama etc.

        Ottoman Sultans didnt treat Armenian community any different than any other non-muslim communities under their rule. And the concept was ages old, not decided by Sultans but by tradition. I suggest you to read about millet system, it is a very unique way of dealing the masses, even for its time.

        “…Nothing such as that happened, these are the lies that they taught you in school…” I graduated from high school in 2004 and in my time Armenia related topics only had a few pages in school books. I cant talk for today’s kids but I guarantee you that I learned nothing about Armenia in school. And in my previous post I was quoeting an American historian.

  • krypto092108

    @jackpot (80):
    Don’t tell that to folks of Armenian descent any in North America…

  • krypto092108

    That’s like denying the Holocaust to Jews.

  • Moonbeam

    # 10 – “Aguirre reportedly murdered his own daughter to ensure that no one but him could love her.” Sounds like a child molester? Incest?

    #8 – “Hawkwood was willing to pardon the revolting townspeople in return for surrender…” Reminds me of a Mel Brooks line from History of the World, Part I “Count De Monet comes racing up to the King (Mel Brooks), and says: ‘Your majesty, the peasants are revolting!’ to which he responds ‘That’s right, they stink on ice!'”

  • Yawyack

    @Armodillotron (78):

    You do know the “Great” in Great Britain is not a superlative right? It was a geographical term to refer to the island. It was used to distinguish the island from the rest of the British Isles and Brittany (in modern day France). The island was named Britannia major (“Greater Britain”), whilst Brittany was Britannia minor (“Lesser Britain”).

    Whilst I do hate people vilifying the British Empire I think you have gone to the other extreme. It both created and destroyed, slaved and freed, it was moralistic and immoral.

    Though atrocities were committed by those who represented the Empire, it was nothing more than anywhere else in the world at that time (and not just committed by Europeans and the USA). There can be no denying that a lot of positive infrastructure, economical, educational and political systems were brought about throughout the Empire. As well as heavy investments into those that were never part of the Empire (notably Argentina).

  • Karl

    @macsmid (3): Me too.

  • Kay

    Men in general are savages.

  • Kay

    Actually, I take that back. Teenage girls would send these guys running.

  • General Tits Von Chodehoffen

    @Kay (86): [email protected] (87): Also wrong

  • Si Si

    Ummm…this was effing awesome. Thank you. Well enjoyed and something I can read over and over again.

  • Mitroman

    yh but what about Ante Pavelic head of the Ustasha, who killed 750,000 serbs living in croatia along with many gypsies and jews – this was the biggest genocide in WW2 in proportion to the size of the country!!!!!

    • Lovro

      you are retard, befoure war, in croatia lived 200.000 serbs, Ante Pavelic's right hand was jew, dont talk about something what you find on google and be shure of it, i live in croatia and I know what is the truth. Type "vukovar" instead.

  • Armodillotron

    Ante Pavelic, was a evil Croat, who butchered the Serbs. And while Radovan Karadzic, “the war-criminal,” is currently being tried in the Hague, for killing Bosnian Muslims, and al Qaeda (since when has killing al Qaeda been a war-crime?), Pavelic was helped by MI6 and the CIA! We call the Serbs, for killing Muslims and Croats, but Coats and Muslims, helped Nazis! Just type in Ante Pavelic: Butcher of the Serbs, and you`ll soon realize that Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic are the good guys!

    • Lovro

      Yeah, very good guys, see movie "Harisson's Flowers" you got it on torrent, its great acurate movie about serbs.. No bullshit…

  • weegmc

    Oliver Cromwell

  • Shagrat

    Simon de Montfort would have been a great addition to this list – under his leadership – the Crusade against the Cathars of southern France led to massacres of hundreds of people at a time. At Montsegur, when the stronghold capitulated, hundreds of Cathars were thrown onto a huge bonfire – – – alive!

    At Beziers, when he finally broke into the city, hundreds of Cathars and Catholics alike sought refuge in the cathedral. de Montfort had it razed where it stood uttering the memorable “Let them all perish; God will recognise His own” (or in modern parlance: “Kill ’em all, let God sort them out!”

    During the siege of Toulouse (which had fallen earlier but successfully rebelled against the “Crusaders, he was hit and killed by a rock slung from a trebuchet from inside the city walls – a trebuchet reputedly operated by women and girls: upon which event, the siege pretty much fizzled out and the citizens of the city launched an impromptu party to celebrate his death.

    Didn’t do anyone any good as his son, Amaury, took up the cause and was just as ruthless!

    The Albigensian Crusades initiated by Innocent III lasted some twenty years and was mounted under several leaders (the de Montforts were the most brutal) and by the time it ended in 1229, between 200,000 and 1,000,000 people (not counting “Crusaders” had been exterminated.

    BTW – Tripsyman – I second your nomination of that evil, murderous bastard, Edward Longshanks: Armodillotron – re-read your history books you wanker; Edward invaded Scotland and Wallace was defending it under the aegis of its RIGHTFUL king; John Balliol.

    “How can I be guilty of treason when England is foreign to me?” – – – – Scots wa hae!

  • reddragon

    Just a quick note to say how much I appreciate this site as highly instructive as well as entertaining. One correction, however – Tsar Samuel was Macedonian, not Bulgarian. Also, the number of blinded soldiers is 14 000.

  • Ahmad

    @Armodillotron [58]and Voltaire, you seem to forget that before the Armenian genocide, the Armenians were living rather peacefully in the Ottoman Empire. If Islam is what you claimed [ that is it a the cause for the genocide ], then please explain why the genocide did not happen long before 1913 ? Also, there were numerous other non-Mulim groups living within the Ottoman Empire – where are the genocides against them ?

    It is so pitiful that people like you would jump on each and every opportunity to demonize Islam. Go read up on history and the facts leading to the Armenian genocide. As the article above itself said, “raising nationalism of the Armenians ” and setting up of an Armenian “mini-state ” for which Talat Pasha punished the Armenians for.

    It was political, pure and simple.

    It is easy to make these claims about Islam but not easy is it to back them up ?

  • dazza

    i knew 6 out of 10 of these villians although only agguire because of the herzog film . also where is bogdan kmelnitza i have only heard of the name and that he was a cossack who killed thousands any more info would be appreciated

  • Ozhan

    “…In the early part of 1915, therefore, every Turkish city contained thousands of Armenians who had been trained as soldiers and who were supplied with rifles, pistols, and other weapons of defense. The operations at Van once more disclosed that these men could use their weapons to good advantage…”

    Henry Morganthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story, Doubleday, Page & Co., Garden City, New York (1918), page 301

  • Armodillotron

    I`m not saying that because of bloody Islam, that The Young Turks commited genocide. It`s because The Turks wanted to kill them. And it weren`t just Armenians they butchered-what about the Assyrian and the Greek genocides? And it wasn`t because of so-called “nationalism.” Talat Pasha said-“The Ottoman Empire shall be cleaned up of The Armenians and the Lebanese.. We have destroyed the first by the sword. We shall destroy the latter by starvation,” “I`ve killed more Armenians than Abdul Hamid ever did!” And even the papers said-TURKS BUTCHER ARMENIANS. TURKISH HORRORS. ARMENIAN HOLOCAUST. CHRISTIANS KILLED IN TURKEY. KURDS SLAUGHTER ARMENIANS. Of course there weren`t a plan to kill Armenians. And if Islam is a “religion of peace,” then why do Muslims go crazy, whenever it`s made fun of? Remember The Satanic Verses,” and when The Pope said, “Show me just what Muhammad brought that was normal, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman,” Muslims went crazy. It`s ridiculous.

  • Ozhan

    @Armodillotron

    Did you know before the Danish cartoons SouthPark portayed the Muhammed and before that I forger now but there was a picture of Muhammed in an enclopedia. Anyway, those didnt cause any riots. I ask myself too why the Danish cartoons pumped so much.

    Anyway, did you read my comment 89?

    And did you know that…? Talat Pasa allowed the American missionaries to do relief work among the Armenians, in spite of the fact that Turkey and the United States were on the opposing camps during the war.

    And if you google a bit you can find reports from that era filled by American, British and Russians officials potraying Armenians as guilty. Not the Turksih sources.

    By the way, can you give source for your Talat quotiation? And also Jews get offended to be compared to Armenians, they are especially against the use of holocaust with Armenians.

  • vkontog

    Basil the Bulgar Slayer? You’ve got to be kidding! you cannot judge Basil’s actions by todays standards. He was facing an equal ruthless opponent, and if the Byzantine army was defeated, his army would face a similar fate.

    Vassilios was a warrior emperor, that helped the poor with his reforms, and restored the power of the Byzantine Empire.

  • Ozhan

    “…Reportedly 15,000 Bulgars, terrorized, wounded and blinded pathetically shuffled away…”

    This reminded me 15,000 Ottoman soldiers who returned as blind from POW camps of Britian in Egypt during WW1. This is 1st brought to public by Cezmi Yurtsever and official archives proofed that the issue was discussed in 1921 Turkish parlamento and there were indeed many (numbers vary) blind soldiers among returners but no research done on why.

  • Armodillotron

    The quote was on “The Genocide Factor.” A programme about genocides. Every maniac was on it, from Genghis Khan to Saddam Hussein. And it may have shown reports from that period, saying that Armenians were guilty, but that`s bullshit. Other headlines from that time, include, THE CHRISTIAN ASIA MINOR HOLCAUST. MASSACRES! HOLOCAUST IN ASIA MINOR. THE GREEK HOLOCAUST. And the word “holocaust,” was used decades before Hitler! And, you`re right, Israel and Jews do moan, when the word holocaust, is used for the Armenian genocide. I don`t know why.

  • GiantFlyingRobo

    #1 was just plain sick. How could anyone be so cruel and disgusting?! Damn, I really hope there’s a hell for de Rais to go to.

  • harmaa

    #6: I think you meant pogrom, not program…

    I love this site, but you guys seriously need a spelling and grammar checker. :(

  • maxrad

    Re my previous post and raising the topic of the Armenian genocide (#46), the HTML engine apparently misinterpreted the stansdard HTNL signbs, and . Sorry ’bout that.

    While certainly not authoritative, here’s what Wikipedia has to say about the controversy:

    “According to some newly discovered documents that belonged to the interior minister of the Ottoman Empire, over 970,000 Ottoman Armenians disappeared from official population records from 1915 through 1916. These documents have been published in a recent book titled The Remaining Documents of Talat Pasha written by the Turkish historian Murat Bardakç?. The book is a collection of documents and records that once belonged to Mehmed Talat, known as Talat Pasha, the primary architect of the Armenian deportations. The documents were given to Mr. Bardakçi by Mr. Talat’s widow, Hayriye, in 1983. According to the documents, the number of Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire before 1915 stood at 1,256,000. The number plunged to 284,157 two years later in 1917.[165]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide#Controversies

  • maxrad

    Sorry– “misinterpreted the irony signs ( less than irony more than)”. When I type them in, they disappear.

  • Armodillotron

    Yes well, as far as Jews, and Israel are concerned, their`s been no other horrors, before or since Hitler. It`s only Jews that have suffered. So it`s okay to say that Armenians weren`t massacred by Turks, but it`s AGAINST THE LAW, to deny Hitler killed Jews? What if people denied the Rwandan genocide? People wouldn`t go apeshit then. Remember the outrage there was, when Iran`s president said "the holocaust is a myth," and held a "holocaust conference?" Israel and Jews went bannanas, and the wretched Elie Wiesel, came out, comparing him to Hitler. Just like they used to do with Saddam Hussein. But then again, Israel would deny the Armenian genocide wouldn`t they? Talat Pasha, was of JEWISH descent!

    • Truth Teller

      His mother was Jewish so he is in fact technically jewish in his religion but legally Turkish. Get your facts checked.

  • Ozhan

    Did you guys know that Ottoman goverment had a trial and exuceted some of his officials for mistreating Armenians?

    Did you guys know that British goverment had a trial during the occupation and could not find any evidence of genocide?

    Did you know Turks accept the deaths of Armenians?

    But why the world ignores the deaths of muslims at the hands of Armenians? I really want to know! For example Armodillotron and Maxrad do you accept those deaths of muslims?

    And if we return to list, it is written poorly becasue Deportation Law doesnt include executions orders despite the claims made in the list. And when list talks about the conditions of the Armenian people, author ignored to say those conditions were the same for the whole population, that the Ottoman was suffering famine and economic crises. But “…were victims of gruesome medical experiments.” was the worst, becasue it’s show a great lack of understanding that era.

    Germany in its highest state such as man power, technologhy, authority abled to kill 6 mil jews in 4 years. And Ottomans in its weakest form managed to kill 1,5 million Armenians and also had time to cover its track?

    @Armodillotron, headlines from era has no meaning. I mean newspapers are a weapon of propaganda. And it is funny, you are taking the headlines as a fact but calling confidental military reports bullshit? And Jews moan because they say what Armenians suffered wasnt anything like their suffering.

    Rabbi Albert Amateau, Sephardic Jewish leader in the United States said in 1990:
    “If 1.5 million Armenian lost their lives during that war, they died as soldiers, fighting a war of their own choosing against the Ottoman Empire which had treated them decently and benignly. They were the duped victims of the Russians, of the Allies, and of their own Armenian leaders. A few thousand Armenians may have lost their lives during their relocation, caused by their own subversion.”

    @maxrad
    By some the book of “Talat Pa?an?n Evrak? Metrukesi” is showed as proof that genocide didnt occured becasue it is a book shows with detail what happenned during the deportation with maps and everything. Even some people argues with numbers, the book shows no intention of killings.

  • archangel

    wow… people get so inflammed by lists such as this!

  • krypto092108

    @Armodillotron (108):
    The wretched Elie Wiesel?
    What makes him so wretched?

  • Dan

    You’ve got all these from the Simon Sebag Montefiore book, Monsters. Didn’t ya??!

  • hotpocket

    as someone of armenian and greek descent, the ignorance in some of these comments would be quite hysterical if it were not far more pathetic.

    the armenian genocide happened. end of story. i’m not saying this because i’m armenian. i’m saying it because i’ve had to do endless research (using real books, not wikipedia)on the topic. just because some turkish douche was clever enough to move around some files and papers, it doesn’t mean that the slaughter of over 1 million people didn’t happen.

    if you have an ounce of credibility to say that this historically tragic event did not occur, i’d like to hear it…otherwise, the unfortunate truth is that, like many of you have already said, the turks do not admit to the genocide because of the horrible cultural stain it would leave on their nation.

  • Ozhan

    Hotpocket, do you accept the numerous deaths of muslim civilians at the hands of Armenians? Such as the complete anhilation of Van people?

  • Armodillotron

    He`s wretched, because of the ridiculous way he goes on about, “Oh, I suffered..” “It was Terrible..” And the way He says other genocides aren`t as important as Jews being killed. He famously said, “We can`t judge the Turks, for things they did generations ago,” when refering to the Armenian genocide. YET when it came to Germany, and Jews, “We should all bear hatred in our hearts for Germans.” Talk about hypocritical! And Shimon Peres “The Man of Peace,” even said, the Armenian genocide is “meaningless.” So there hypocrites.

  • hotpocket

    @ ozhan: any murder for the reason of religion is unacceptable. I am not delusional and claim that the Armenians are perfect people and never committed crimes. But you bringing up the murder of a people that is not even mentioned on this list is merely to instigate and further your point, which is unrelated to the topic at hand.

    All I stated was that over a million Armenian people were murdered (including those in my own family) by the Turks. You can claim any other murders and genocides that you would like, but again, they would only be to further your point that Armenians killed people like everyone else did….is anyone else surprised by that? Every culture in the world is guilty of murdering people. Your point is no more valid.

  • krypto092108

    @Armodillotron (114):
    Why, Yes, I see now…

    By the Way, I am not a Holocaust Denier, In fact just the opposite.
    As far as I’m Concerned, the Holocaust Deniers have the burden of Historical Proof completely against them…
    I know, because one of my maternal Uncles who was in the Canadian Army back then was one of the soldiers who liberated the death camps… I heard from him more than once about that, when I was growing up…
    He used to look awfully upset when he was talking about it… I got that way, myself, too…
    That must be why I was a soldier in the Canadian Army Reserves…

  • Armodillotron

    I`m not a holocaust denier. I just don`t see, what`s so exceptional about Jews being killed? I mean-they`ve been killed before. Tripsyman mentions Edward I. Who is best known for being the “Evil King,” in Braveheart. But one of the other things that he`s known for, is “The Edict of Expulsion.” Where all The Jews in England were kicked out and weren`t allowed back for over 300 years. And before they were expelled, they were tortured in the Tower, killed by peasants, described as “Pigs,” forced to wear a Yellow star-which is where Hitler got the idea from! And they were expelled from Spain, centuries later. So whats so different between Edward I, Spain and Hitler? Hell-Jews have complained, because Spain have suggested Isabella of Castile be made a Saint!

  • FilipMacedon

    I have been a fan of listverse for quite some time and i must say that all of your lists have been interesting , but what amazes me is that such a relevant site like yours relies on Wikipedia for facts.
    I have been provoked to comment upon the scandalous entry number 7 on the list.Maybe Basil wasn’t a tyrant compared to some other historical figures , but the following notion is quite incorect.
    You have defined him as a BULGAR slayer.In fact , Tsar Samoil was Macedonian , he formed one of the first ethnic Macedonian states of the time , with its capital near Lake Prespa . He was in no way a bulgarian , and the wiki entries are totally incorrect.
    You should have consulted other refferences , because i consider this to be an insult to the Macedonian identity and their presence at the Balkans at those moody periods of the Middle ages.

    Respectfully , i hope that the creator of this list should explain why he used the term Bulgar for the Macedonian army of the time.

  • Ozhan

    to hotpocket: I dont use “Armenians killed muslims before Techir law” as an excuse for a possible genocide. I just wanted to know your view becasue on the internet i met so many armenians with attidue “life was good then Ottoman millatary came and started killing everyone”.

    “…bringing up the murder of a people that is not even mentioned on this list…” so you accept the list poorly made and incomplete because as you said it lacks events connected to teshir law.

    And I’m sure you would also find “…were victims of gruesome medical experiments.” claim ridiculos, arent you?

    By the way, comments 88 97 99 101 107 113 are mine, not all of them is directed to you but… :)

  • Yawyack

    @FilipMacedon (118):

    Because Samuel was declared the Emperor (or Tsar if you prefer) of Bulgaria. The nation of FYROM as you know it didn’t exist then, it was part of the first Bulgarian Empire and then again a part of Samuel’s Bulgarian Empire. Yes Samuel was born in the Macedon region and his Empire was initially there, but it spread to engulf the rest of the Bulgarian Empire.

    There was no ethnic Macedonia. The empire was mainly Slavic and Bulgar. Samuel was Slavic.

    This is what I don’t understand about the propaganda of changing FYROM’s history to suit a national identity. They claim the Greek Macedonian empire and the later Slavic empire as being ethnically Macedonian. No offence but I believe you have being misguided. You won’t find your’s or your country’s nationalistic version of history believed anywhere else in the world.

    Oh and by the way it was the Byzantines who later referred to Basil as the “Bulgar-Slayer”.

  • ash m w

    majava i watched the film about what the japanese did to the chinese and it was disgusting for example cutting open pregnant women and killing the unborn babys,kicking babys around,experiments on people to make the plague,causing frost bite then heating up the body parts then ripping the skin off and taking childrens body parts and organs.Also to be honest the asians are evil,look at some of the leaders they have had kim jong il,emperor hirohito and mao zedong.

  • ash m w

    What about G W Bush and most of the american presidents

  • Armodillotron

    What the Japanese did to the Chinese was EVIL. disembowelling pregnant women, and experimenting on Chinese.. digusting. But The Americans did the exact same thing in My lai in Vietnam, and experimented on Soldiers, by exposing them to diseases, such as Anthrax, and DELIBERATELY, making them sick. And Ariel Sharon, The Butcher of Beirut, did the same thing, in Sabra and Shatila. So it`s not just Asians!

  • hotpocket

    to ozhan: I know that things were not, in fact, perfect before or after the genocide. However, the fact of the matter is that there are many victms of genocides that have medical experiments done to them. Frankly, these terrible things are done to people regardless of the presence of a genocide.

    I’m personally not a religious person so I do not chalk up the genocide to merely a difference in religious views. I believe a lot of it had to do with politics, money, nationality, culture, and yes, also religion.

    My concern is people’s ability to deny any genocide that has overwhelming proof of having occurred. Honestly, it’s just very surprising in this day in age that people could and would deny it. It’s not even acceptable to utter those words about the Jewish Holocaust, yet the Armenian Genocide is not only frequently overlooked but pretty much ignored.

    It would be just as unacceptable to ignore the Rwandan Genocide- or any large group of people being slaughtered, essentially, for being inferior in the eyes of their persecutors.

  • Ozhan

    I find it hard to believe the Ottoman, which was short on everything inculding technologhy, medical staff and supplies, would have funded a research project wheather it is grusome or not. Can you provide me some non-armenian sources and save me from googling? Since you already completed your research, I’m still reading.

    And if we return to list
    “…victims would be crucified in imitation of Jesus as the perpetrators would say: “Now let your Christ come help you!”…” This also sounds weird since muslims believe and respect Jesus as a prohphet and as a messiah and crucification is/was a western tortue technique.

    I’m questioning because as you know in the past some documents are proved to be forgiries by Armenians such as telgrams of Talat Pasha.

  • Bob

    As far as I understand the Armenian independence movements were a product of the Allie’s subversion of Armenian leaders to weaken the Ottoman war effort.

    This resulted in the relocation of many Armenians so that the Ottomans could concentrate on defending their country.

    Many Armenians resorted to joining terrorist organisations at the behest of their Allied puppeteers and would attack Muslims throughout Eastern Anatolia in an attempt to further their goals.

    Without the resources to transport the Armenians as well as revisionists would like, the Ottoman government had the Armenians relocated as best they could in an attempt to stop them slaughtering innocent Muslims and civilians. (I’ve seen photos of Armenian atrocities – Muslims with their heads tied to their legs until they died, woman with their foetuses cut out of them and left at the side of the road)

    During the relocation process some Ottoman officials went too far in their mistreatment but this was certainly not government policy. I do not condone any extraneous mistreatment that may have been directed at the Ottomans but understand why they’d behave like that given the Armenian crimes.

  • Bob

    EDIT: Last line should say “directed at the Armenians” not “directed at the Armenians.”

  • Bob

    Jesus Christ, what is wrong with me!?

    EDIT: EDIT should say: “directed at the Armenians” not “directed at the Ottomans.”

  • hotpocket

    ozhan: What sources in particular do you need? I went to the library at my college and began to research the topic. This was years ago, however, all of the books I read were Western sources. A few were even written by Americans.

    I’m still quite confused about your position in all of this…I realize it may not be one that is simply black and white, but what are you trying to say by statements that imply Armenians stretch the truth and have even downright lied about the incident?

    Frankly, who cares if anyone forged telegrams from talat? The fact of the matter remains that he was a horrific human being that deserved worse than he received. I do not condone murder, but there were dozens of attempts on Hitler’s life…personally, I’m accepting of that. People who are evil should not live.

    As I stated previously, this isn’t about numbers or bureaucratic crap. It’s simply that people were murdered because of who they were.
    If you do not believe that this occurred, then I wish you the best- certainly more than you’ll need to read some book. If that’s what it comes down to, then there’s simply no proving it to those like you.

  • Ozhan

    The act of forging of telagrams are nothing to do with Talat Pasa. It shows that sometimes Armenians resort to lie about the incident.

    In school they dont teach anything about Armenia (I’m Turkish if you havent already figured it out :) And in my childhood, it wasnt even an important topic for public. As a child, my view was simple as it can be. When it hit the mainstream, I took interest. And as i read more, my views evoled. Last year, in my university libary, finally they gathered the books about Armenia in one category and bought more books so my job got easier.

    For the sake of argument lets say i accept that Turks killed 1,5 million men, women, children with guns, swords, tortue… And in your previous comments you say you accept the suffering, Armenians inflected on muslim population. So your words of “It’s simply that people were murdered because of who they were.” dont go well with your previous attidue. So i guess i understood you wrong earlier.

    “…I’m still quite confused about your position in all of this…” My current view is:

    I see this issue as a human tragedy, I mourn for both muslims and armenians. I blame politics of allies; divede and conquer. I blame Armenian leaders for their over zelaous passion. I blame those for seeding distrust between Turks and Armenians. I believe deaths of Armenians during relocationing by lack of suplies and lack of proper protection against bandits cannot put as evil acts of goverment. For that I blame weakness of Ottoman empire. Turkish goverment had nothing to gain from a distrust between people, in fact the conflict weaken the empire even more. Although induvual people, civilians may took revenge on Armenians I believe the goverment spent resources to protect but failed.

    I dont reject suffering or deaths of Armenians. I’m focusing on the reason. Famine, bandits, low man power and suplies of empire, civilians who wants to take revenge, soldiers who abused his possition.

    Armenians leaders started a rebellion and people followed them bu who wouldnt? I mean who wouldnt want to be indepence? But since they werent majority, since they relay too much on Russia (which would abondan them), the rebellion failed and the people of Armenia paid the price with relocation.

    You cannot just say “…It’s simply that people were murdered because of who they were…” The tragedy wasnt that simple. I mourn for both muslims and armenians.

  • Shadow Lord

    @Voltaire (73):

    Well, racist or not, I think you will need to learn some “facts”.

    The British never “ended” the rule of Maharajas nor India was full of savages ever. The British rather “nurtured” these maharajas for their own good. Read the “Drain Theory” by Dada Bhai Nauroji”.

    They built those roads and bridges for their own good not because they wanted to do something good for Indians. Akbar’s annual revenue was more than the total treasury of England in the 1500s. They looted India and fueled several communal riots (Divide and rule). They kept India out of Industrial revolution causing it to become backward.

  • Voltaire

    @Ozhan
    This is your version (typically Turkish):
    “Famine, bandits, low man power and suplies of empire, civilians who wants to take revenge, soldiers who abused his possition.”

    And this is the truth:
    The Young Turk government of the Ottoman Empire began a systematic genocide of its Armenian citizens – an unarmed Christian minority population. More than a million Armenians were exterminated through direct killing, starvation, torture, and forced death marches.

    Ozhan you are a typical Turkish genocide denier. Brainwashed by your Turkish schools and blinded by the typical Islamo-Turkish patriotism. Shame on you. Why don’t you sign here “www.iexpectanapology.com” – like many of your fellow countrymen?

  • Voltaire

    @Shadow Lord
    You know in my country of birth we have a typical word for you guys – it’s called “Gutmensch”. There’s not much point in talking to you, because you will never change your mind anyway – so I don’t really know why I’m doing this.

    “The British never ended the rule of Maharajas”
    Ofc course they did. About 2/3 of India were ruled by the British directly, 1/3 indirectly through Maharajas. So in fact the British were the new rulers – you doubt that?!

    “nor India was full of savages ever.”
    Nor ofc it wasn’t. In fact no country ever was. About 10.000 BC humanity fell down from heaven with democracy, philosophy, science and the water closet. I think they landed in India…

    “They built those roads and bridges for their own good not because they wanted to do something good for Indians.”
    Wow that’s finally sth half-true. Ofc they’ve built it for themselves. But in the end it benefited the Indians as well. A good example how egoistic intentions lead to sth good (with you Gutmenschen it’s the other way round).

    “They looted India”
    That’s true again. But before that all Indians were rich and lived happily ever after? No the Maharajas looted their countrymen as well. Not to mention the caste system etc. etc.

    “They kept India out of Industrial revolution causing it to become backward.”
    Ah come on this is so stupid. You really believe that?! Going backward from what? From a caste system with Maharajas? Fact is the British invented the Industrial revolution. You are talking like India invented the Industrial revolution and British stole it from the Indians when in fact the Indians got to know the Industrial revolution and many, many other things only through the British. Ofc the British didn’t hand their achievements and technologies to India on a silver plate – but through the decades the British introduced them to their system and taught them how to get things done. I’m sure the British learnt sth from the Indians as well. For example that nonviolent resistance can be very effective :D

  • Shadow Lord

    @Voltaire (133):

    I kinda like your sarcasm. After all you are good only at that.:D

    “There’s not much point in talking to you, because you will never change your mind anyway – so I don’t really know why I’m doing this”

    Expected. You guys never know what you do or why you do. :P

    “So in fact the British were the new rulers – you doubt that?!”

    Oh really? Ever heard of Zamindari system? Introduced by moguls and abused by the British. Maharajas were far better than Zamindars. The system was abolished only after independence – not by the British.

    “But in the end it benefited the Indians as well.”

    Oh really? Yeah I am walking on those bridges right now. Without which I might have to swim across all the rivers to travel. Please make some sense! It benefited only for few years after independence. We are not solely surviving on those so called bridges or dams. You really need to read the Drain Theory. They constructed all that for their benefit with our money.

    “…I think they landed in India…”

    Seriously, you gotcha read some history of ancient India. You guys were learning to hunt animals when we were writing Artha Shastra and doing maths.:P

    “But before that all Indians were rich and lived happily ever after?”

    In deed they were. For any country/empires there are always good rulers and bad rulers. Go and read about some of the great empires in india like Mauryan, Vijayanagar, Chola, Chalukya, Pallava.

    “You are talking like India invented the Industrial revolution”

    Participation is different from invention. Whoever invented it, many countries that are developed today participated in industrial revolution. Whereas India was still a colonial economy.

    “….and taught them how to get things done.”

    Like corruption?

  • Ozhan

    @Voltaire (132):

    How can you say unarmed when the majority of Armenian men were armed? Way before the techir law.

    Brainwashed by school? They dont teach ANYTHING about the issue in schools! (I graduated from high school at 2004.)

    If goverment began a systematic genocide, why they left Istanbul armenians alone (except some ringleaders) and left their churches open and funcitiong?

    Why after teshir law, goverment made trials and exucuted soldiers for mistreating Armenians?

    Why goverment took care of orphnas who were result of techir law?

    Why many armenians survived and arrived the destination cities of techir law?

    Why Malta trial (1919) which lasted 2,5 years done by British empire (number one enemy of Ottoman Empire) with Armenian scholars, during the occupation of anatolia, had to realese the Ottoman officials for lack of evidence?

  • Yawyack

    @Ozhan (135):

    There are a lot of first-hand accounts in the paper “The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire 1915-1916” which was compiled just after the war as an official investigation into the matter. And there are a lot of other first-hand accounts by Americans, Germans and Turks if you are willing to look for them. The problem is that since the Turkish language was Latinised, the average Turk can’t go and read Turkish accounts on that period and are restricted to trusting translations.

    As to the Malta Trails, they were abandoned (many without even going to trail) because of the threat made by the “Ankara government“, which was firmly opposed to the trails. They threatened the lives of the remaining British prisoners still in Turkey:

    “…should any of the detainees either already brought or yet to be brought to Istanbul be executed, even at the order of the vile Istanbul government, we would seriously consider executing all British prisoners in our custody.” – Mustafa Kemal 4.9.1919

    As Britain released the Malta exiles the “Ankara government” realised their British prisoners…

  • Yawyack

    @Yawyack (136):

    trail = trial.

    @Listverse:

    I’m trying to post a reply to Shadow Lord but whatever reason no matter how I edit and re-phrase it, it ends up being sent to moderation and not posting on the site. I’ve no idea what the red-flag could be. This isn’t the first time its done this, as it has done it on other threads in the past too. And in the past they never ended up being accepted and posted. Could you please sort out this problem.

  • Yawyack

    @Shadow Lord

    The Maharajas did decline in both number and power under British rule. Not sure why you are denying this.

    India was a politically fragmented place and was not as wealthy or advanced as you are making out. Otherwise how else do you think two small rainy islands, with a population of 40 million, on the other side of the Earth could not only gain a foothold but eventually dominate a subcontinent with a population of 700-800 million?

  • Yawyack

    @Shadow Lord

    “They looted India”

    Your implication of looting implies that all they did was go around stealing. What about the universities, schools, railways, roads, telegraph lines they built? Sure British companies and the government tried to earn money from the lands they operated in. Companies and governments still do that. Britain was very obsessed with their notion of Capitalism to create wealth. Though you maybe interested to know that the East India Company lost vast amounts of money and had to rely on excessive loans from the British government.

    “Expected. You guys never know what you do or why you do.”

    What does this mean?

    ““But in the end it benefited the Indians as well.”
    Oh really? Yeah I am walking on those bridges right now. Without which I might have to swim across all the rivers to travel. Please make some sense! It benefited only for few years after independence.”

    Only a few years after independence? So they didn’t benefit Indians before independence? And they don’t continue to benefit? Eh?

    “Seriously, you gotcha read some history of ancient India. You guys were learning to hunt animals when we were writing Artha Shastra and doing maths.:P “

    He was actually joking. But for your information the British isles nor Europe were hunter-gatherers at this time. They were not in the Stone Age! That line shows unbelievable amounts of ignorance. It’s the equivalent of me saying, as the Europeans arrived in India they were all living in straw and mud huts.

    And please don’t personally include yourself in the achievements of other people.

    ““But before that all Indians were rich and lived happily ever after?”
    In deed they were. For any country/empires there are always good rulers and bad rulers. Go and read about some of the great empires in india like Mauryan, Vijayanagar, Chola, Chalukya, Pallava.”

    Erm, what? They were all happy and rich? How are those empires (and note the word “empires”) any more benevolent than those that Britain and Portugal ruled? How did they spread universal wealth, were they socialist empires with free healthcare and unemployment benefits? How did they do the impossible task of keeping everyone happy? Surely if these empires had subjects (note the word “subjects”) as happy and rich as you are making out then they would never have fallen, right?

    “Participation is different from invention. Whoever invented it, many countries that are developed today participated in industrial revolution. Whereas India was still a colonial economy.”

    You just mentioned the Zamindari system. So surely it was a part-feudal economy? You also mentioned the Maharajas so surely there were plenty (and large) semi-independent states? Could they not have established their own industrial revolution? Why didn’t it happen in the states where the East India Company had not reached at that time? Was it a “colonial economy” that held back your neighbours in China from participating in the industrial revolution? Oh no wait they were independent from European power’s rule…

    “Like corruption?”

    So there was no corruption before Britain arrived right? Sorry I must just have being mistaken by all those great palaces of the Maharajas compared with the squalor and famine the peasantry suffered from.

    And how did Britain export corruption? Seriously how did Britain make the modern Indian officials corrupt?

  • Yawyack

    @Shadow Lord

    The Zamindari system just goes to show how far behind India was compared to Europe and the Americas. For those that don’t know it’s the equivalent of medieval feudalism.

  • Yawyack

    Sorry about all the individual posts everyone. It was the only way I could find out what the red flag was. Post 140 really should have being at the end of post 138. Sorry.

  • Armodillotron

    I actually think that India was better off when we still ruled the place. Before we took over India, under Elizabeth I, the place was a slum. I mean, the minute we left, they started to kill one another. there still fighting over Kashmir, Pakistan is full of Islamic jihadis, the People in Idia live in absolutely disgusting conditions, while there leaders live a life of riley.. Damn shame we aren`t there! And we were awful in India. we eradicated the Thuggee Cult, and crushed fanatics, during the Mutiny. If I were an Indian, I`d be begging for us back.

  • dalinean

    Sawney Beane (and tribe)were fictional put up as anti scottish propoganda… check it out..
    17th century urban legend

  • fishcakejayke

    Those who still deny the armenian massacre sicken me and disgust me. There is very very clear evidence of the transportation and execution of the armenian people all over the place. Turkey still denies the atrocities because of the racist government that is still in power, in the 60’s when a left wing liberal government came into power for one term, they apologised for the massacre and admitted it happened and that it shouldnt have done. When they were no longer in power, the next government who is still in power today, renounced this apology and essentially said “erm, i know they have apologised and everything but now we are back in power, we are going to deny it ever happened again.”
    Turkey shouldnt be allowed in the EU until they admit and apologise for this horrendous genocide which definately did happen. The only people who deny such an event are Turks.

  • vladimir

    Tzar Samoil was a Macedonian tsar not Bulgarian. He lived in Macedonia. Bulgarians are Turkish-Tatarian tribe.

  • Yawyack

    @vladimir (145):

    Samuel was declared the Emperor (or Tsar if you prefer) of Bulgaria. The classical Macedonian kingdom died when the Romans defeated it and subjugated the region. The modern region of Macedonia was apart of the Bulgarian Empire. Samuel was Bulgarian despite being from the Macedonian region, just like Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are British even though they are from the Scottish region.

    Interestingly, the Byzantine Theme of Macedonia which was created 200 years before Samuel’s reign was actually situated in modern Bulgaria and Greece and not FYROM.

  • amonamon2

    the list is missing many people such as Hitler and stalin
    and who said that Islam is viloent I think it is un true
    compare to all 1 out of all !!

    • it

      Are you retarded? The Title is lesser known savages in history not MOST EVIL PEOPLE IN HISTORY. Some people just can’t read anymore.

  • I thought the Gilles de Rais fella was pretty well known. Very interesting list, I do love my savages.

  • anonymous

    Have you herd of Baron Urgen Von Sternberg? He killed millions of people and conquered Mongolia. Gilles de Rais might not be well known by people who don’t study evil people, but if you do, he is well known. I agree that Torquemada, Pasha, Godfrey, and Lothar von Trotha belong on this list. I knew these guys already, but that is because I read a lot of books on evil people, otherwise, I would never know them.

  • Armenian people racist .. Ottoman archives, historical documents, in particular, not for the genocide of Armenians in the region where their rebellion against the government says was sent to. rebelled so why? Ottoman Empire and many of the state with the help of Russia’s territory, because the state wanted to build! genocide, which claimed that the state made ??them today, actually killed the peasants for the sake of this goal. close to the massacre of Khojaly genocide in history, but what is? This is evidenced massacre of the Armenian community suffered the barbarity of defending Azerbaijani Turks. village of Khojaly, just like thousands of Turks were killed by that asshole nation. did not get its share of the shame that society says they were killed. Looked at pictures of the Armenian genocide museum in the center of Kars! Extracted carved bellies TURKISH WOMEN BABIES! Is not this a genocide Get the document you! carved into the eyes of the peasants burned children Khojaly massacre, just as they have raped this nation for everyone! I hate the Armenians because they do, they used to cover the religion of Jesus. Christianity, the Jews are guilty of many shows as you like! God’s justice is infinite! Their penalty will they share in the genocide. geopolitical Interests of the community to take a not-guilty to the offense of their own actions can not be accepted!

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