What is taboo for one culture is tradition for another. Many places all over the world will experience agonizing rites of passage in order to prove their faith, dexterity and maturity, even at the risk of extreme pain. The dreadful sensation is worth it, considering the perks that come with passing an initiation. Generally, girls become women and are now ready to marry, while boys evolve into men, eager to be treated as adults and be considered valuable members of the community. These are just some of the most painful initiation rites (in no particular order). This list is definitely not for the squeamish.
The tribes living along the Sepik river in Papua New Guinea have used the tradition of scarification to mature their boys into men for decades. The ceremony requires the youth to be cut along his back, chest and buttocks in elaborate patterns, to mimic the coarse skin of a crocodile. It is thought that this reptilian divinity consumes his youth during the bloody process, leaving behind a man in his place.
Before he can be treated as a man, though, the boy is subjected to humiliation in a ritual that can take weeks. In fact, the boys are referred to as women and regarded that way in order to psychologically toughen them. The scarification, parallel to the taunts, strengthens them physically because it requires a vast amount of discipline to go through the ritual, withstanding hundreds of cuts. The raw wounds are cleaned after the scarification is complete, but the pain endured continues for days as their bodies heal.
In the South Pacific Ocean, on Pentecost Island, tribe members construct a tower 60 to 90 feet (20 to 30 meters) high made from the trees surrounding a clearing. Rocks and wood are removed from the ground and the soil is tilled before the tower is built. The rickety structure is then used as the world’s most extreme form of bungee jumping, with only two vines and faith supporting a diver.
The ritual is done to ensure the yam harvest that year will be successful; the higher they dive, the better the harvest will be. It’s also thought to strengthen participants spiritually, as they take the leap of faith. While it’s not required to dive, those who do are revered in the community and seen as true warriors. After all, to dive means to sacrifice your life for the tribe. They embrace the possibility of death during the initiation; it’ll be like taking one for the team. Boys around seven and eight (once they are circumcised) can participate, and they’re considered men after they survive the fall.
The risks are obvious. Divers are prone to concussions, broken hips and necks, and that’s if the vines don’t snap (and if they don’t impale themselves). If the vine is measured correctly, the only pain a diver will experience is the sudden harsh pull at his ankles once he drops, a painful feeling which will stay with him for days. It’s common to see tribe members’ heads hit the ground after a jump but for the most part, they survive unscathed.

The Okipa ceremony of the Mandan Indians opened with a Bison Dance, followed by a variety of torturous ordeals through which warriors proved their physical courage and gained the approval of the spirits. The Okipa began with the young man not eating, drinking, or sleeping for four days. They are then led to a hut, where they had to sit with smiling faces while the skin of their chest and shoulders was slit, and wooden skewers were thrust behind the muscles. Using the skewers to support the weight of their bodies, the warriors would be suspended from the roof of the lodge, and would hang there until they fainted. To add agony, heavy weights were added to the initiate’s legs. After fainting, the warrior would be pulled down and the men (women were not allowed to attend this ceremony) would watch the warrior until he awoke, proving the spirits’ approval. After awakening, the warrior would sacrifice the little finger on both hands, each finger being severed by the initiate with a hatchet. Finally, the warrior would be taken outside where he would run around the central plaza of the village a number of times.
[Source]

Speaking of penis, the ancient Romans also had their own initiation method. Infibulation is the process of suturing the foreskin. Using string or a metal clasp, the foreskin was closed and the penis was drawn to the side. Most infibulations were self inflicted.
This was done for several reasons. For singers, infibulations helped keep their voice through the years. It also was thought to capture and retain gladiators’ might and vitality. In some cases, an exposed penis was thought to be vulgar, especially the head of the penis, so infibulations were done to show modesty and restraint. For the purpose of this list, youths were exposed to the process to keep them from masturbating, and to abstain from sexual intercourse. It was a show of maturity to suture your own foreskin.
Female Mentawaians of Sumatra experience an agonizing practice known as teeth chiseling. Local shaman sharpens a crude blade as best he can to make the chiseling as least painful as possible. The young girl is given nothing to numb the feeling in her mouth before he takes a rock and begins to hack away. Using careful strikes, the blade carves the corners of the teeth, leaving behind pointed ends similar to shark teeth. To finish the process, her teeth are filed to achieve the desired shape.
This is done to young girls because it is believed to make them more attractive. It’s also said that sharpened teeth please the spirits the tribes believe in, and bring balance to a female’s life. It’s an old tradition the Mentawaians have been following for years, but the practice isn’t as common anymore. Today, it’s up to the girl to decide if she wants her teeth chiseled to become beautiful.
It’s a celebration when a boy has the opportunity to become a man, for the Xhosa people of South Africa. The abakwetha (male initiate) is shaved, and he’s given a feast, before being taken to the mountains where a hut is built for him by his family. The hut will be his home for the next several weeks, so it’s fortified to keep insects and animals away (primarily to protect from disease).
Without any preparation, the surgeon appears and conducts the circumcision. The foreskin is removed, often with a dull blade, and the boy is left alone. He takes refuge in his hut where he cannot eat or drink water until he’s healed. The risk of infection is high. The blade alone, which is used on multiple boys transitioning into men, can often carry STD’s. One of the big fears of the boys going into the procedure is news of previous abakwetha that have been hospitalized because of the circumcision.
The Fulani people, from Benin, have been living nomadically in West Africa for years. For their boys to be considered men, they must endure a tormenting bloody whip match that will test their strength, self-control and bravery. The initiate picks a long stick and sharpens it in a way that will guarantee the most painful blow with every whip. Once he has his weapon, clans from all over gather for the ceremony, where two youths are pitted against each other.
His goal is to hit his opponent the hardest, and wince the least when he’s struck. Three blows are exchanged between each boy. The crowd decides who has shown the most courage through the ordeal, and he is the winner of the match.
Girls of the Sabiny tribe, in Uganda, go through genital mutilation to achieve womanhood. The pain that comes with the tradition is part of the experience that can’t be matched. If she can survive the ordeal, she proves herself strong enough to endure any, and all, obstacles that she may face the rest of her life.
Female circumcisions are complete when the clitoris is partially cut or completely removed. The Sabiny believe this will make a woman faithful to her husband, and keep her from sexual promiscuity. Infection and likeliness of death is high. This, among other health complications, are just part of the tradition that a woman must withstand to prove herself.
Papua New Guinea isn’t know just for the crocodile scarification ritual as seen earlier in the list. Deep in the highlands, an equally gruesome rite of passage exists. The Matausa believe that if a boy doesn’t complete the blood initiation, he may suffer the consequences his entire life. He will never be seen as a real man, and he won’t experience the vigor and strength that the others have. That’s why boys are eager to go through the initiation, regardless of pain, to become warriors.
In order to do this, they must cleanse themselves of any remaining female influences left in them from their mothers. First, they must slide two thin wooden canes down their throats to induce vomiting several times to empty their stomachs. Afterward, a collection of reeds are inserted into the initiate’s nose to further expel bad influence. Finally, they must endure repeated stabbings to the tongue. This bloody ritual thus purifies them, and they are truly men afterward.
The Brazilian Satere-Mawe tradition, that makes young boys into warriors, has become notorious in recent years. Explorers, adventurers and documentarians flock to the Amazon to catch a glimpse of what is considered to be one of the most painful rite of passage on Earth. What makes the initiation so torturous? The culprit is the bullet ant.
According to the Schmidt Sting Pain Index, the bullet ant has the worst known insect sting. A single sting is comparable to being shot with a bullet (ergo the name). The intense pain lasts a full 24 hours, and can lead to vomiting, nausea and cardiac dysrhythmia. And that’s all from one sting. The Satere-Mawe don’t use just one ant.
Employing natural sedatives, more than thirty bullet ants are submerged in the liquid drug until they are unconscious. A glove weaved from leaves is fashioned and then completed by placing the ants in the tight openings, stingers pointed inward. Once they are conscious, they struggle to free themselves from the weaving, growing increasingly anxious and desperate by each passing second. The boy being initiated has his hands coated in a thin layer of charcoal before slipping on two bullet ant gloves. He must endure their stings for ten minutes. The goal is to keep from screaming or showing signs of weakness. He and the tribe members present chant and dance to take his mind off the pain. Once the ritual is complete, he will suffer from the stings for days but he’s one step closer to being a warrior; this process must be repeated an additional 20 times in the following months for it be officially complete.




















I saw #1 on TV it looked like hell on earth.
quite disturbing, but great list!
Im only on 10 and im squrming in my seat :/
while they all sound like they were invented by sadists, #8 stands out as the worst to me.
I can't even imagine #1.
I would have loved to have been there when somebody came up with the ideas for these rituals. It would answer so many questions like "were you high when you thought this up?" or in the Romans case (no 7) "No ***** (or *****)?"
i dont think ive ever seen 'high' people be this sadistic.
i believe most of these were thought up by insane people.
Yes, very true. If I was in Rome when ritual 7 was discussed, the conversation would look a little like this:
Maximilianus: "I think it would be a sign of modesty and restraint if males suture their penises. What do you think Jeffthemaori? "
Jeffthemaori: "F**k off Maximilianus!!"
just like religion.
Only a few comments in and some a** f*** has to purposely throw in religion to cause trouble.
ways human torture themselves
There were Urban Legends circulating when I was younger about Male Circumcisions.
They said that when you would get circumcised a man would stand over you with a raised machete. If at any time during the procedure you should show any sign of pain, the machete would come down.
as if number 1 wasn’t bad enough, but to have to go through it another 20 times? thats some pretty hardcore stuff…
Very ouch list. lol at the way the guy in the video pronounces Xhosa.
OH GOD….
well that was an enlighting but horrific experience
I guess I'm the freak of the group here. Most of these, I find completely reasonable. A Taboo subject indeed. *Wink wink*
Put #8 at a lower position for God's sake! #1 seems quite bad considering you do it 20 f-ing times.
This list is in no particular order.
I see why they didnt put number #1 in one of Steve Backshaws childrens shows
All this just goes to prove that I wouldn't be classed as a warrior or "real man". Getting a severe case of the 'ouchies' when standing on a thorn or prickle kinda excludes me from the tough list.
Love the list but darn people were crazy to come up with these rituals. Total torture
If these are indeed the true rites of passage into adulthood then i guess cutters can b considered alpha males/females,emos r true warriors n ppl who commit/attempt suicide should be reverred n idolised…just sayin
no offence
What a great list! #8 and #1 seem the craziest to me and since I have a fear of the dentist #6 seems like a nightmare lol
Well ill just say an idea that will seem very terrible. What do these tribes/groups actually bring to humanity. Lets say someone quite brilliant is born in one of these tribes. How can he/she stand out and how can that person be helped to improve. Yes i know we should respect cultural diversity and all that blah-blah but isnt survival of the fittest the rule. And evolution the only way to progres?
Id just say: people send your kids to school and stop doing rain dances and cutting your *****ual organs.
well said.
yeah exactly!
let's imagine a Stephen Hawking born in these conditions…. no chance, pal, too crippled to be part of the community….
Who said that all the pple we used to consider like geniuses or great minds were strong enduring pain men/women? Maybe most of them were pussies, but look what they bring to mankind knowledge and evolution…
Come on, Einstein, don't be a wuss, put your hands on the glove, in order to be a man and contribute to the community…..
Great list – Ouch some of these must hurt !
What the ***** is wrong with you? So you think any culture that doesn't make sense to you is worthless? You don't get to decide what matters, and your over-simplification and only seeing one small part of an issue is idiotic. Speaking of "evolution" ,learn how to spell and what you put at the end of a question. Hint: it's not a period.
Listen jerko. Thats what humanity is all about. Seeing a problem and trying to solve it. And in those societies where you take a 12 year old and cut him up, a young mind cant be pushed to evolve, cant be guided. Im not saying go get a suit and go trade stocks on wall street. Im just saying dont mutilate your kid. It affects his mental capacities Maybe that kid wont like that when he’s older. If you dont believe me just look up katoucha niane. I dont get a society where people dont want the best for their children.
Ps english isnt my first language so before you judge why dont you start speaking 3 languages and lets see you good you get by the time you start talking in that 3rd language.
well said.
as i said in a comment below, there's a big difference between harmless cultural traditions, and forced mutilations based on superstitions and pushed over people (in general, kids, cuz it's all about the passage to man/womanhood) who simply don't have the choice.
And when we see this, what is supposed to be the reaction? " oh that's gruesome, but, hey, it's their traditions, so let them mutilate young kids if they feel like doing it for cultural reasons".
This is biased, guys, and really sick. Of course it's delicate to put our big nose in other ppl culture and traditions, but hey let's face it : we are talking about TORTURE and MUTILATION of CHILDREN here. Let's call a cat a cat, shall we?
So Arsnl, i'm with you.
You guys are so Western in your ways of thinking. You're really incapable of understanding that cultures are DIFFERENT and Western ideals of morality and philosophy don't apply everywhere else. What you see as mutilation may be a long-standing tradition that has lasted centuries and is accepted, no, a part of, that population's traditions. These are mostly tribes that have had little contact with the Western world and while it's great that you're on some sort of mission to eradicate the world's evils, maybe you should begin by addressing your warped view of what YOU believe is right. OH HAYYY GUSS WUT GUYZZZZ I'M FROM DA WEST AND MY WAY OF THINKING IS RIIIIGHTTT.
It's mutilation to you (and to me, too) but really learn to take on a world view before becoming a crusader for humanity. There are far worse things being done to people, things that are wrong in those people's cultures, too, but you don't see very many people rushing to stop the ***** trade or child slavery. Instead you'd go on a rant about how these people are mutilating their children when they themselves don't believe that to be true.
OK sami, so we should be perfectly fine with cutting off a girl's clitoris? This would be akin to cutting off a man's penis. Many woman are left with no feeling during ***** and worse have problems the remainder of their lives in urinating and also suffer from infections. But it's their tradition – so it must be all right? Are you kidding me?!
I don't normally reply to people's comments online because it usually does no good, but I have to say that your argument is completely based on your bias against "western thinking" and has no merit whatsoever.
First of all, taking on a world view is the very definition on becoming a "crusader for humanity". Rather than only wanting to clothe, feed, and medicate one's own, knowing the reality of what goes on in the world is what makes someone want to help.
Second, you are grossly summarizing and stereotyping western philosophy in a completely unfounded way. Most of the core teachings of most Eastern philosophies involve nonviolence and steering clear of worldly possessions and evils, but you don't look down on them for the fact that they believe they are right. What sets apart these practices from typical Western (and the aforementioned Eastern) philosophies is the lack of education involved. People are peer pressured into doing them because their culture believes that way of thinking is right. Men are made to bleed in various ways in order to purge themselves of their mother's blood. Where is the evidence of that? Western culture may have many flaws, but I must say that I respect that I was encouraged by my family to use education and reasoning to decide what I believe in.
There's more people taking action to stop those "far worse things" than there are people trying to stop rites of passage in Papua New Guinea. You can do research to find that out. And if I wanted to use your logic, I could argue that ***** trading and child slavery are some of the strongest, longest lasting cultural traditions in the world that we shouldn't think are wrong because the people doing it don't believe it's wrong. And I can't question the practices of another culture because that would be too "western".
Finally, what is going on is the very definition of mutilation, which is to mar, expurgate or damage beyond repair. I could believe that I don't breathe to live, but the fact is that I do. They don't believe it is wrong to mutilate in their culture, but the fact is that they are still mutilating.
Cool list.
Wow. Just amazing and fascinating how the human mind works.
are you talking about the jackass that cant figure out what arsnl and randall are talking about, or these crazy initiation rites?
Wow. Just amazing and fascinating how *****ed up and sadistic the human mind is.
FTFY
My friends and I once formed a club where to prove we were manly enough, we each had to drink nothing but Grape flavored soda, eat nothing but Fritos, and spent 3 whole days without air conditioning. It was real tough, but all but 7 of us were able to do it. I feel so much stronger now even thinking about the trials I put myself through, but it was worth it.
Incredible list – amazing!, very well written and interesting.
I think some the boys in my neighbourhood need a very special kind of initiation – preferably dished out by Chuck Norris
Seriously though, Ouch.
In my family (starting with this generation) you aren't a man until a chest freezer door is slammed down hard onto your face ten times. I'm trying to get the neighbor fathers to do this to their kids, but so far they're resisting. But I am persistent. If this freezer door face-slamming ritual goes viral, don't forget who started it all — that's right, me. The only one who didn't need to go through the ritual himself.
Maybe I should try your "chest freezer door" ritual..My family tried the finger breaking ritual, but it did not seem to work
Isn't it strange that all but one of the pain rituals in this list are/were practiced by non-white people and the ones that are still doing it in modern times use modern tools, but still haven't evolved past the spear chucking, hut building, barely clothed stage?
It makes one think about 'race equality', doesn't it?
You’re right. There’s no such thing as racial equality. Those non white spear chuckers were way more advanced before their civilations were destroyed by oh so smart white people.
I don't think it's related to a difference between races, cuz we are all from the same race, human race.
It's just a different speed of evolution, that's all. Your environment and the weather is going to influence a lot of course. It's utterly irrelevant to compare ppl living in a tropical island and nordic ppl living in a cold continent, for example. European pp evolved the way they do, because they lived a lot of cultural exchanges during their history, through wars, exploration, colonies…. Just being able to reach another country using a horse, instead of crossing an ocean… Nothing to compare with ppl living on an isolated island with almost no contact with other culture. I don't explain myself really well, but i think you get the point…. if you want to get the point of course ….
There is NO intellectual difference between white people/black /asian etc but i kind off think there are some physical differences. Only last week did the first white guy succeded in running 100m under 10 sec. The first time a person ran under that time was in the 70s. Till now 72 people made that performance, one was the white guy( lemaitre-french) another had a white father and an australian aboriginal mother (i think) and the rest are black. That kind of makes me wonder from a statistical point of view.
It is kind of interesting to see that while intelectually we dont differ we might be different physically/anatomically. Kind of like the difference between a man and a woman. It shows how fast our brains can adapt to new situations and how hard our bodies follow up.
It has nothing to do with evolution/equality/race and everything to do with education. Send these folks off or provide them with a modern education and see just how long these traditions last. Less than one generation would be my bet. Don't forget that these are the same areas of our planet where folks believe in Shrinking Penis curses and murder albinos because they're witches. Oh yeah and kill children for body parts to be used in magic rituals.
If my memory serves me correctly you are wrong. They murder albinos and keep parts cuz they are good luck charms. Quite a few waves happened. But watche it. You shouldnt propose for these people to follow a modern education. You WILL be accused of being biased (cultural arrogant and ignorant)
I, too, see education as the key. One particularly heinous superstition is flourishing in South Africa today: If a man has ***** with a virgin, he will be immune to AIDS. This has led to the horrific practice of raping female babies, who are certain to be virgins. South Africa is a relatively well-developed country, and yet this superstitions continues. People need to be educated in the scientific causes of disease and the modern medical practices that can help to control its spread and perhaps to cure it. Unfortunately, many South Africans are suspicious of any medical news that comes from the U.S. People need to receive education, but it has to come from a source they can trust. Therein lies the rub.
Jeez man, there is always someone who has to turn something into a race superiority issue. If you can prove that white people have never done anything similar to the things on this list during the history of mankind, then fine, you may have a point. But I don't think you could. Also, the fact that the western world has modernized and these people haven't doesn't make us less barbaric than they are (eg Hitler). We've just become more efficient and have better technology to use.
Interesting yet horrific list. Sad too. I understand tradition and culture, but sometimes those need to be challenged or changed. This list has be shaking my head in amazement on what humans do to each other…just based on superstition.
I'd say in the most cases it's less about superstition and more about tradition. Their ancestors did it, so they're doing it, as simple as that. While some of them are *****ed up and one of them should be banned (female circumcision) they are important traditions for these people and through honouring them they honour their ancestors,their gods, and their cultural identity.
you right to make the difference between tradition and superstition, but i really think that the line between these two concepts is really tiny. Most of their cultural identity is based on superstitons, i think. "If we don't do that, bad luck" About the ancestors, you have to do that so you please them and respect their memories and teaching… you can translate by : "i don't want the ancestors to be angry at me, i don't want to bring bad luck over my head".Fear is the motivation, and fear is the perfect ground for superstitious beliefs. For example, jumping from the tower to influence the harvest. This is exactly what superstition is, thinking that unrelated human actions are going to influence the way nature works. Most of our traditions are, obviously, coming from a past where people were far more superstitious, so basically, a lot of traditions around the world are base on superstitious beliefs. i'm talking in general, of course. I'm not saying that all traditions are based on superstitious beliefs, of course not. Well, at least, that's what i think ^^
grumpf, sorry for the mistakes and the bad english ^^;;;;;;
Read my answer to both you and Arsnl up above. Tradition is only a superficial reason for why these rites are practiced. They have a far deeper and far more legitimate origin (at least for some of them) and I suggest you investigate the matter more before making these wild and "superior-minded" judgements upon cultures you don't understand.
Yes Julius we should honor our traditions but these traditions affect their society, it affects their youth (the most fragile part of a society). Ofcourse feeling part of a community is vital but the elders and the parents need to understand that there’s another way of doing it.
I remember the previous list (cant remember the name) and it was as violent as this one.
I know im biased but for me the the universal declaration of human rights is, well, universal.
you cant argue with me that the biggest leap in society was brought by secularization and by scientific knowledge. And i think that groups that dont understand this are ultimately going to disappear. Slowly but surely people are going to wonder. Hey what happens if i dont get my back cut out with a razor (notice the fact that the razor is a modern type of blade. Im sure that group used gillette blades 500 yarrs ago. They show they can use modern tools but they refuse other ideas).
well said, again.
That's the point : there are other ways!
You have to remember that these people live in a completely different world to us. I'm not justifying it, but the skills that we have to learn in order to survive are so different to the skills they need. Its not so much a matter of cultural difference but the difference between life and death to be able to withstand pain, show loyalty or be that little bit stronger. Anyway, it just makes me glad i dont live in any of those places.
Superstition that if the ritual isn't done, they can't be a man or woman or apart of the community is what I meant.
Keeping traditional and cultural identity is one thing…torturing for the sake that it might make you an adult (if you live) is another.
All 10 of them should be banned, and "honouring their ancestors,their gods, and their cultural identity" is NOT a valid excuse for torture and mutilation.
“All 10 of them should be banned”
Even when women WANT to chisel their teeth? It’s just beauty ideals, not really any different from ours. If you want to save the world, ban size 0 as the staple of western beauty so that *we* don’t starve to death and millions of women can have a decent meal after 15 years. That would be a good start.
hahahaha I totally agree with you
The tower jumping one isn’t that bad either.
I agree and also I don't have any intention to try any of those inititation. It made me sick…
When you say "This list has be shaking my head in amazement on what humans do to each other…just based on superstition," you could certainly expand the concept. If you look at the term "superstition." You might have to include quite a few more groups of people. Take any religion; Western, Eastern, modern, ancient, and the beliefs could be all be described as superstitous by those with opposing beliefs. The word is defined as, "a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason, knowledge, or experience. The word is often used pejoratively to refer to folk beliefs deemed irrational. " Just look at so many wars and conflicts; torture and hate that have occured based on religion or "superstition."
So true. I was just being polite about it.
Take the witch trials…perfect example of what religions/superstitions can do…and that is just a small example.
I'm all for retaining cultural traditions but these just seem insane to me…
The woman who had her teeth shaved had beautiful teeth beforehand but I guess standards of beauty differ between cultures.
Western culture has strange ideas about beauty also. Look at how so many woman are having silicone surgically implanted into their chests and lips. Check out awfulplasticsurgery.com and see how both male and female celebrities (and also some average people) have mutilated their faces and bodies in an attempt to be more beautiful.
*****ing morons
HOLY BANANAS!! Gosh. We humans can be super pathetic. Painful torture isn’t worth it. And holy sweet lord, cutting the clitoris?! I’d kill someone trying to cut my girlie areas.
How would you feel about people doing this to little girls in America, or Europe? And insisting on their cultural right to do so if you objected? It is not one world…
In America or Europe, I would look upon this practice as a particularly horrific violation of a child's human rights. I feel exactly the same way about it WHEREVER it is practiced. Mutilation of a girl's body to keep her subservient to men and to disallow her pleasure in the act of ***** is wrong, no matter what custom or tribal rituals may dictate.
Good list, a lot to think ….
I'm ok with the idea of self-inflicted pain to make yourself more strong and build up your endurance. And also to be in touch with your environment, which makes sense.
But, as always, it should be a personal choice, not something forced on people by a community. Do that in order to be a man/ a woman. These are barbaric, truly dangerous and utterly useless at the end. No freedom of choice, just the negative weight of traditions you're forced to follow in order to be part of the flock.
lets go dancing venom hunter!
I saw every single one of these on either The History Channel or NatGeo. I applaud the effort, but not a very original list.
Sure, but not everyone is checking The History Channel or NatGeo. … So it was original for me.
***** would hurt
As disturbing as these rituals are, they are tradition to their tribes. Most of the children (mainly young boys) are eager, as stated above, to go through these rituals to become a man to their tribe. They suffer humiliation until they go through with the actual initiation and then are seen as an adult or part of the tribe whereas they where kind of the “outcast” if you will. Just like in our society you live as an outcast and thrive to do mostly anything to become part or society or whatever. That’s all these kids know. So they’re accepting of this. I’m not saying its right or wrong. Its just part of their life. But if you look at it.. These tribes are inflicting pain to bring their children into maturity. Our society inflict pain mostly out of selfishness.. How often do you here of tribes having trouble with members of their society raping,or killing people? Like I said I’m not saying right or wrong..but its something to think about..
How often do you here of tribes having trouble with members of their society raping,or killing people?
I dont know, how often do you hear about those tribes at all?
Well, I'm thanking my lucky stars (so to speak) that I was born and raised in the rational, civilized Western First World, than one of these superstition-soaked cultures. The story goes that Indians protested to their new British rulers that burning widows alive (soti) was one of their traditions. To which the British replied that one of their traditions was hanging people who burn widows alive.
Yes they are eager to go though with these initiations but how much of that is fear of how they would be treated within the tribe if they didn’t?
Have you ever heard of peer pressure? You also seem the only human being that hasnt gone through puberty, so i guess you dont know how important is to feel accepted during that period. Let me tell you, ITS VERY IMPORTANT.
"How often do you here of tribes having trouble with members of their society raping,or killing people?"
Picking on the first one, UNICEF estimates that "around 1 million children in Papua New Guinea live with violence, either at home or in their community. Many of the country’s women are victims of domestic abuse. But their cry for justice often falls on deaf ears: Among Papua New Guinea’s more than 800 tribes and languages, the concepts of domestic and *****ual violence do not exist."
Your argument isn't flying, bernash.
i wanna try that bullet ant someday
The bullet ant can just consider itself lucky it's not going to get sowed into a Woyzeck glove.
Little known fact – the bullet ant rite of initiation is to wear gloves with Woyzeck sown inside. Probably Chuck Norris’ too.
That last comment. Win.
Yep the british were against sati(not soti) as any rational group of people should be. but just to point out a fact it was an indian by the name raja ram mohan roy who actually took up the case and fought against this cruel ritual. he also advocated widow remarriage.
I've done all of these, they're easy.
And then f**ked all their women.
… because their women are easy too.
Like a boss.
I did say in other comments that i was biased but ive never judged the past. i am perfectly aware of the fact that these communities needed strong men to fight tribal wars and others as such (we find it perfectly normal the brutality of training future soldiers, everybody knows they need to survive so they do need to be tough), but at present time these rites of passage are obsolete. yes you argue that these things are still needed ("the culture, must produce a process FOR him") and you say the modern society doesnt have them anymore. i think we do have our own rites of passage. getting an education a job leaving the family home these are our rites of passage.
i presonally dont think there is a need for violent rites of passage (see the sambia tribe -previous list- where young men are forced to ingest semen). the human mind is so evolved it can grasp incredibly difficult and abstract notions as math physics quantum mechanics (so counterintuitive its mind boggling) and you come here and tell me tribes people cant understand that all these rites are doing more harm than good, that the most important thing you have been given is not muscle power but your brain, your creativity your adaptability etc etc.
i think our story (humanity's story) is one of breaking new boundaries, of discovering and colonizing new teritories, of creating bridges between communities. and thats an universal story. its something hidden in our minds and because of that, these traditions will slowly die out. someone from these tribes will see that it DOESNT have to be that way, you dont have to partivcipate in something harmful (just like katoucha niane did for female circumcision) and they will change. slowly but surely. just like in a recent article in ny times about polyandry in northern india. i guess that makes me feel optimistic about this topic, they'll change. not cuz i want them to, it will just happen.
"your western values of right and wrong" how the hell do you know ive got western values? dont make assumptions if you dont know me (check out your smug comment)
"…the human mind is so evolved it can grasp incredibly difficult and abstract notions as math physics quantum mechanics (so counterintuitive its mind boggling) and you come here and tell me tribes people cant understand that all these rites are doing more harm than good,"
NO. I am telling you that YOUR assumption that these rites "do more harm than good" is ITSELF a fallacy. You do not KNOW this to be true, you merely assume it from the bias of your own position in the world you live in, which is modern.
Yes, the human mind is a wonderful, brilliant tool, a miracle of evolution. But your argument, then, is that any culture that can't eventually produce a quantum mechanic or a theoretical physicist or an advanced abstract mathematician is useless or at least "obsolete." Do you really want to defend such a position? I suggest you think again. Yes, these accomplishments are tremendous—but they are not the end-all of what it is to be human, to live in this universe. I would, of course, rather have them as human accomplishments than not; I too believe in the quest for knowledge, and in science. But I also recognize that not all human beings must live in such a world, nor do I have the right–nor do you–to belittle their humanity if they do not, or cannot, or will not.
I am glad we can reach some kind of common ground.
Well why do we have these studies, why do psychologist tell us do not abuse you child, do not spank him. I think because it has a negative influence on our children. Yes a parent could say well how will my child learn to be responsible if i dont slap him. Well there are other ways of raising a child.
And the list said that some rituals can lead to death or being infected with an std (also i cant see how a child being cut with a razor can still come out of that experience and be 100% normal). Those things are very real and can have a big impact. Katoucha niane said that after her circumcision she was left with deep psychological scars. So i guess she knew more than me and you know.
This rituals are shocking and have an impact. Yes you can say well its my vision of shocking and that im biased, but even though after these kids are integrated in their community and all have to go through this, its still something arbitrary. Some old guy decided to do this and everybody went along. Im sure there could be other tests/rites that can be less painful. I remember this story about a chemist’s mark. In the old days students would have to put tubes in a narrow rubber ring (to make everything air-tight) but it was a difficult task since the rubber ring was narrow so it was almost certain that every student would miss and the glass tube would go through his hand. And profs never told them to watch out cuz they had to have this mark. But nowadays they stopped this tradition (also maybe cuz the tubes changed) and professors are now also safety instructors. They understood that maybe a chemist can be a chemist without this mark.
We dont even wonder if all this pain is actually useful. If they are actually taught an important lesson or if its just extreme.
Also i never said a society that cant have physicist or mathematicians is useles. I said those rites dont have their place anymore. But sadly(or luckly) a culture where the children are put in a situation that might affect them psychologically all their life will most probably disappear. Those kids deserve the right to have options (im also betting they dont even get a real education but im just guessing)
And for me its just sad cuz they kill their chances to have a ramanujan(this is just a side note, i dont judge cultures by their geniouses).
I do think we (as humans) are defined by our acomplishments. In science, literature, military, in the way we raised our children, art (culture in general). And somehow i feel that these people by endangering their youth and reducing their horizons, are failing. Thats why i belittle them. Not because the didnt invent the transistor. I have the chance to live now in society where i get the chance to meet africans and arabs and chinese (all first gen immigrants just like me) and its just amazing. But its amazing to see that they have options. Options to leave or options to stay in their community. To learn or not. And they all had a happy childhood.
FIRST TIME I WOULD SAY THIS but, Im proud to be white.
Go back a thousand years, and people who look like Rutger Hauer will be trying to catch you, so they can tie you to a rock, cut your chest open, and spread your rib apart like an eagle's wings.
It took a millennium of war and Christian mission before we emerged from this kind of savagery. And as the previous century has shown, it's not very far below the surface.
But yet again, thank God for being a product of Western civilization…
"Christian mission" spread a lot more brutality than it prevented. It does so to this day.
countries in europe practice female genital mutilation.
…also, the Roman custom on the list?
not that it's a competition, but 'whites' dont have a spotless record of painless rites of passage either.
Oh God.. The Roman one makes me feel faint..
"suture your own foreskin "
No thanks,no thanks…..
Oh wow, how amazing. It's my dream to study cultures like these
I thought my freshman year was hell!
These are real painful. Borne out of ignorance and mind control, i pity the people who had to go thru this. I am grand these day we hav a choice on how to live our lives. The only thing remaining now is marriage. Why marry when we can just ***** freely like other animals? Terrible.
Some traditions are truly sadistic…I know culture is supposed to be kept alive, but COME ON.
I'm glad most of these are now (or were always) a matter of choice.
The trauma these individuals go through is utterly sickening to think of.
This is list should be an eye-opener to many, and, should really get you to appreciate being of a less painful culture, even if at times you find it embarrassing.
Be grateful that you are who you are.
This list*
Passion overtook me.
I'm sorry, but these people are *****ing retarded.
I know that makes me "culturally insensitive" and whatnot, but I call bull***** as I see it, and this is definitely bull*****. It doesn't matter whether or not they're Western. There are plenty of non-Western traditions that aren't *****ing retarded, and there are plenty of Western traditions (more so in the past), that are/were *****ing retarded. The point is, these ten initiation rites are *****ing retarded, predominantly because the victims feel pressured by their society to undergo such gruesome rites. They really don't have a *****ing choice, any more so than a "modern" individual (this includes non-Westerners) might have the "choice" not to conform to society and ergo risk ostracism. The difference is, conforming to modern society doesn't involve cutting yourself up or thrusting wooden skewers behind your muscles. The worst the West has going for it in this respect is the peer pressure to binge drink alcohol or possibly do drugs. But even then, it's quite easy to avoid these things, and most people will consider you any less of a "man" or a "woman" for refraining from such things.
i'm not sure if you care or not. but you sound unbelievable unworldly and ignorant.
within a paragraph you managed to sound like the "retarded" one.
but i guess we all are just a product of our environment eh?
I'd appreciate if you could explicate what exactly I said that made me sound so "unbelievable unworldly and ignorant". Is it because I'm against painful abuse as a prerequisite for social acceptance? Please do tell.
^ Should be pretty obvious, but I meant to include the word "not" in the last sentence.
And here comes Big Empty Randall, fighting for Truth and Justice…..
How come you take so much room in the comments section when you have nothing interesting to say, except insulting people in the most arrogant and pompous way? oh wait, maybe because you are arrogant and pompous.
You're kidding, right? That's all you've got to say in rebuttal? And you have the gumption to call me "empty," and claim that I have nothing interesting to say?
You just made yourself look like a complete ass. You don't need my help in the form of insults.
I invite you to illustrate for everyone just how I had "nothing interesting to say, " regardless of the length. In point of fact, I formulated a cogent, and if I say myself, well written and well reasoned counter to the nonsense being spewed by you and Arsnl. Calling me irrelevant names, with no other counterpoint in your favor, isn't going to change the quality of my argument, nor does it do a single thing to refute it.
Beyond that, it isn't even a matter of argument. You and Arsnl both spoke out of pure ignorance and cultural arrogance. It would be better for you to cogitate on what I've said here and realize how unfair and wrong you were to make blithe condemnations of cultures you have no knowledge or understanding of.
Randall you keep coming with this leftist view, everybody has the right to live the way they want to live etc etc. (btw are you a democrat?) but sadly this type of mentality wont stop female circumcision or other child mutilations.
You kind of remind me of the socialist party here in france. All filled with great ideas but when action needs to be taken they’ve got nothing. It took a right wing party to ban the burka (symbol of female repression) in this laic society.
Ps:”pure ignorance and cultural arrogance”. Thank you randall for the laugh of the day. You kinda called me a kulak
thank you.
Do you realize that the phrase “cultural arrogance” seems copy pasted from a stalin or a khruschev speech. What next?
Am i undermining the economy, am i exploiting the working class? Damn my imperialist way of thinking.
Right now i like you a bit more. Thanks dude
I found the debate between randall and arsnl as fascinating as the list!! i'm slightly more compelled by randall's arguments myself ultimately…. very interesting though
randall, chill out. i think most people on here understand the ideas behind why they do it, but it doesn't mean it should ever happen. the kids don't have a choice unless they want the rest of their life to suck extra hard. there isn't a single doubt in my mind that these tribes couldn't figure out a better way to teach their sons how to be men that putting them through an absurd amount of pain, that could very well leave them mentally (and obviously physically) scarred for life.
disturbing
The clitoris mutilation…-shudder-
I can't even fathom it.
Wonderful list, I'm very glad that Listverse is recovering from previous lists.
Very interesting list.
I heard of a pretty painful ritual when I was in Tanzania.
The Maasai warriors of that region usually have wait until after the age of 16 before they are even considered for the circumcision ceremony. But even before this they must roll through a patch of plants native to this region called the stinging nettle. Having been stung by this plant while I was there I can say that this would be no easy feat for anyone. The young men must not show any emotion while performing this test or they will have to repeat it. Once deemed worthy for the circumcision ceremony they must then drink the blood of a cow and must also not even flinch during the circumcision process or they will be considered weak and not respected among the other Maasai worriors,
We have stinging nettles in the UK. apparently brought by the Romans. They dont hurt that much, just very irritating
Something most people get wrong about female circumcision –
The men have nothing to do with it. It's actually the women of those cultures who mandate it and perform the surgery on their own young girls. Not the 'patriarchy'.
i do'nt think i can fully agree with that statement because it's a lot more dynamic than just the females verbally perpetuating that ritual.
There is an societal unspoken pressure and assumption from both *****es to go thru with the procedure.
There is always a societal pressure anywhere. Any society has some norms that it expects others to follow so that they fit in. The west is no different.
I know for a fact that it is the women who are involved in the circumcision of female and who perform it on the girls. In fact, the men may not even be aware of it when it is done on their daughters since it is usually considered exclusively a female issue, and it is usually left entirely up to the mothers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fnUwc70EaU&fe….
eeeeeeewwwwww…. i'm starting to feel a tingling sensation after seeing all these cutting and stingings
I feel like I've seen this list before….
All I have to say is thank god that I was born in the country I was born in, and that all I had to do to be considered an adult was reach the age of 18.
/thread!
lol @ the comments
western culture: OMG i can't! like… i can't believe they cut each other and stuff O_o
non western culture: MY GOD! i can't believe they exile their parents and grandparents to be tortured in "nursing homes" when they strike the 60th year O_o
lol the thing is, most of the people on the list don't have tribal wars. when the kids grow up dreaming and longing for their rites of passage, it isn't torture to them. if you weren't here, who would be here to say it's right or wrong? they would be the standards for what's right and wrong.(well they already think they are the standard and everyone should do what they're doing) so are you really superior if you can't grasp that simple concept that your superficial opinions don't matter to them?
do you people ever take the time to think individually? of coarse not because your inferior and your brain isn't capable of performing such a tedious task(sarcasm)